Grrl Power #989 – Invasion schminvasion
I’m not sure humans are actually bad a being subjugated. I think that’s western romanticism. Or, specifically American romanticism. We don’t of modern England of being remotely subjugatey, but they did have one of those top 5 empires at one point and a lot of early colonists came here to escape religious persecution. And for economic opportunities of course, but once they were here, they didn’t feel like paying taxes to the crown or being told how to manage our shit, war ensues – for freedom! But then we bought a bunch of slaves, war ensues – for freedom! Then 150 years of weapons-grade racism follows. Like, shit, I really like the name Redline for Ren, but some people pointed out that “redlining” is a thing in real estate where when a black family moves into a neighborhood, then all kind of shitty stuff goes on like raising rates on insurance and loans and canceling nearby construction like grocery stores. I would say it’s almost beyond belief, except for the fact that humans are the literal worst. If demons actually did invade and saw all the shit we get up to they’d be like “What the fuck is wrong with you?”
So I’m still going to call him Redline, because I like the name, and I have a feeling if I call him “Super Perfect Human Man” someone would still be able to find some tie to racism because America has been so racist for so long that nothing exists that isn’t tainted by racism.
What was I talking about? Oh, right. So even in America where we ostensibly worship anti-subjugation, there’s still a shitload of it, and huge sections of the world have a much worse track record than we do.
But Dabbler is too polite to point that out to Maxima in the middle of her “if you invade, I will personally decapitate your army” speech. (By decapitate she means slaughtering all the important officers, not literally beheading everyone down to the chefs. That would be tedious, especially when she can just blow them up.)
Tamer: Enhancer 2 – Progress Update:
About a third done with the editing. I actually didn’t play much of anything this weekend as I had to split my time between TE2 and working on the next vote incentive. I had trouble figuring out what to draw, so I actually spent half my pinup time working on the cover for TE2, so overall a productive weekend all things considered.
October’s vote incentive is up! This is a redraw of a comic I did in 2011 I think, but never published. I had originally pictured the comic going through an establishment phase, and then taking occasional breaks from the storylines for little one-off moments like these. Which I guess I could still do. I just got wrapped up in the story telling and forgot.
So Dabbler and Sydney are up late one evening on night watch but Dabbler has just discovered Cinemax…
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By the time Sydney’s done asking all of her questions, Thothogoth and his army will be fleeing with all due haste.
I’m not so sure about that. Tom like nerds (like for example Dabbler) so maybe he would get along fine with the ultranerd Sydney.
Sydney is the grown up equivalent of a toddler asking “why” a hundred and eighty-three times. Her questions just have more syllables.
A hundred and eighty-three? I think your number is too low. By a factor of ten or something.
No… 183 perfectly worded Sydney questions is worse than a toddler asking thousands of whys. That would be closer to a factor of minmax gaming. This is gonna go crazy.
Only 183?
Them’s rookie numbers, son.
And every one of those questions is going to have an effect as ArtyD describes.
TBF, Sydney IS a rookie.
When it comes to annoying dangerous people, she’s a 4 star general. :)
The smarter members of the invading army are already feeling dread.
Poor Tom, he has no idea what he’s in for.
He is soooooooooooo in for it now. The mighty Sydney is about to rain all over his parade!
Shame for Sydney, Tommy likes golden showers
Even after she’s done with him he still won’t know what hit him.
why do i see Thoth leaving with at least two horns broken?
Three, if Dabbler has her way.
If Dabbler was willing to screw him a minute ago, I doubt she’s ready to make sure she never can again.
Wear and Tear is different from purposeful damage.
Just try and say with a straight face that she doesn’t have a spell for that. Or two, or ten.
Tom turning out to be a frustrated Fanboi and tickling her succubus switch is one thing.
Invading Dabbler’s current home and threatening her friends is another…
Mind.. Between Maxima and Sydney she doesn’t seem particularly worried, while being fully aware who and what Tom actually is.. In fact, she seems to be having quite some fun with this..
We know she’s quite familiar with violence and quite capable of dishing some out herself, yet she hasn’t even been close to battle mode..
We have seen that Dabbler has already banished Thoth before (“There shall be a mighty burning” https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-177-intergalactic-baggage/ ), was obviously comfortable enough to “roll in the hay” with him (instant recharge on her powers too) plus she has has Max & Sydney to back her up. I can see Sydney & Max side by side, or Syd on the cliff & Max opposite side of the portal, both firing their death-beam type attacks into the portal, frying anyone stupid enough to come out of it, with Dabbler picking off any that survive long enough to get away, Thoth watching on dumbfounded…
Well worth emphasizing that Dabbler just finished consuming what had to have been an enormous tantric energy charge. Tom’s appearance suggests that he was drawn here by what was effectively a vehemic energy portal that Kevin accidentally created (or, maybe more accurately, he created a pool of concentrated vehemic energy that provided an opportunity to open such a portal). Tom seems to be another entity that feeds on vehemic energy … and Dabbler just took a large bite out of his reserve by converting it into a tantric energy reserve inside herself. She isn’t just “recharged,” she’s super charged.
In addition to Max, Sydney, and Dabbler, Kevin is also present and would super-charge up quickly just by being near such a battle, let alone joining in. Plus one or two other somewhat powerful supers in attendance. Tom didn’t really pick the best portal to jump out of and start issuing threats.
Actually we are very good at subjugating everything and anything we find “weaker” than we are, or have resources we want or power for the sake of power or……well you get the point.
Personally I think the galactic mob are more concerned about our tendencies because we have literally just been unveiled to the fact we are not alone way before we learned to not kill and subjugate our own populations be it foreign or domestic and given half the chance it will turn from “you have a different skin colour/religion/political party to me, I am going to kick your ass” to “you aren’t from Earth, I am going to kick your ass”.
Humans. Are. Dangerous!
Good point.
Humans are space orks with genuine super powers in the making!
Getting control over them before they start a breeding program is likely a good idea.
Welp.. that bit is likely already to late, im looking at you Hiro!
And as for that breeding programme… Well, there’s a good reason that any time a fictional character is described as half-elf, or half-demon, or whatever, nobody ever needs to ask what the other half was.
I prefer space ork they don’t use faith as loincloth.
And they are brutaly honest
Basically … run!
that only works if we accept the Shadow Proclamation. and we all need a good shirt.
Dabbler’s wearing a nice shirt.
Indeed, in good The Morning After fashion, that’s ALL she’s wearing.
… but where did it come from?
I have to say – if I had mystic shirt generation powers, I could have avoided an awkward wardrobe malfunction or two (… but where would be the fun in that?).
Dabbler has a teleportation device built into her cybernetic arm. She can “summon” a vast array of items at whim, especially per the Rule of Funny. She probably has an entire closet tucked away in hammerspace filled only with morning after shirts. A large, walk-in closet.
https://youtu.be/M1_Ir6iNSm4?t=225
You’re welcome… :) :P
No, hyu-mons are good at subjugating others, they are very bad at being subjugated (even for their own good, just ask Australia)
The Kzinti learned that lesson the hard way. Don’t mess with the hairless monkeys from Earth.
Humans are really like a virus, we spread everywhere, in all regions, locations and environments. Like all viruses, the harder you try to kill them, the more they adapt and spread. Their technology boosts always come when they find new ways to kill one another and if not one another, pretty much anything around them. The Twilight council didn’t want to reveal themselves for this fact. You have a hairless, generally physically weak primate, no sharp canines, no claws, nothing to denote they could be an apex predator yet they are the dominant species on the planet because they have that lizard part of the brain mixed in which makes them a very, very clever and dangerous tool user that loves to find ways to wipe out anything they don’t like.
My favourite fermi paradox I thought of was the Kuiper belt is actually an alien minefield surrounding our solar system. Not to keep aliens out, but to keep US in to protect the rest of the galaxy!
The whole “lizard brain” thing isn’t really supported by science, and we actually have three traits that any species capable of interstellar travel should pick up on all-but-instantly, and recognize as an end-game build.
The first is our complicated brain/nervous system.
The second is our very specifically omnivorous diet.
The third is our ability to sweat, which specifically marks us as endurance monsters.
Taken together, we are evolved to go any place, consume any resource, and develop any strategy.
I think THIS little Doctor speach can sum you Humans up pretty well…
https://youtu.be/GidbEhL0teE?t=155
The Doctor : “I gave them the wrong warning. I should have told them to run, as fast as they can. Run and hide, because the monsters are coming – the human race.”
I mean, scraplets, I’m a Cybertronian – a living alien robot basically – in a suit of amazingly robust armour which make me LOOK Human, learning how to live amongst humans, potentially deadly enough to go on a near-unstoppable rampage if I wanted to compared to you meat-sacks! Yet whenever I’ve deliberately played up and mess with Daniel the Human, despite being a nice guy (he IS letting me stay at his place after all), he still figures out ways to stop me & “take me down a few notches”! You Humans might not be the most physically powerful race out there, but you definitely have some points in creativity & stubbornness, even after you fall back to regroup…
Now for someone to start linking to Humanity is Awesome fanfic :)
The first one is a requirement for intersteller travel. Everyone who is dangerous will have this.
Omnivore plus endurance (plus a respectable breeding rate for significantly more than self-replacement (8-12 kids was normal at one point)) does make use scary, but I don’t think we’ve seen enough of the galaxy at large to know if it makes us exceptionally scary.
Still need to worry about the Puppeteers breeding programs
well, if you look at human history, we excel at being subjugated… keeping that subjugation is usually the problem. Also, Human’s suck, and giving that much power to few persons usually cause bad thing to happen, especially if the person in power is an absolute idiot.
Humans will ALWAYS be lazy. Ruling others is HARD work. Being responsible for puling masses is HARD work. Owning others and being responsible (THE HORROR!) for their lives is HARD work.
I am not, technically, a racist. I do not hate or fear a subset of the human race. I am a specist. I hate the human species in its entirety. (yes, that includes myself) We are lazy, we are unmannered, we are violent and we don’t like change. There were many slaves in Ancient Greece who didn’t want to be freed because they didn’t want to be responsible for their own welfare. Modern times? There are MANY people in many places who do not bother doing things because they do not care enough to be responsible for their own welfare.
Humans as a hole excel at wanting someone ELSE to do it all. Someone ELSE to come in and save the damsels in distress. Someone ELSE to fix the problem and leave whoever to their fun and games.
Me? I just want all the morons to shut up and stop putting me in danger because they are too busy being bothered by things to watch where they are walking or driving.
Maybe being subjugated by aliens would help? I kinda doubt it but that is just me. I have a very low estimate of humans.
Your entire post can be summed up by listening to the song Pets, by Porno for Pyros.
Oh, damn, I haven’t heard that in FOREVER.
Yeah, no. It would be same shit, different deity.
That’s… the point: nothing really would change, except who you send your first born’s soul to
Here ya go, G. You can owe your soul to the company store.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfp2O9ADwGk
If I recall rightly, part of the reason for some ancient Greek slaves declining to be freed was the level of rights and protections afforded in law. As a slave, there were quite stringent laws about what others could do to you and what your master was obliged to provide. As a freedman, there was none of that – plus an obligation of military service at your own expense, in some city-states.
There was that as well, but that wasn’t the only reason.
If you take someone who hasn’t even had to be responsible for his or her self and drop them on the street with nothing, then they don’t generally end well. Which is what the North DID to the South’s slaves during and after the Civil War.
Don’t even get me STARTED on the slaves in the North… Or the slaves who were not black…
Off Topic: Dabbler was recording the fight with her artificial eye. Do you think she forgot to stop recording when the fighting turned to sexy times?
Forgot? Or intended to?
Yes… “Forgot”
I kind of assume her cybernetic eye functions like a dash-cam: It records continuously, and maybe over-writes the recording periodically if you don’t tell it to save.
But given how recording densities keep climbing, it probably never needs to delete anything, and why would you delete stuff? Who knows if ten years from now you might need to look at something again?
Well… https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1626874985-20210721.png
Also this one:
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1634312233-20211015.png
okay that’s funny, got a good laugh out of me.
Well… there’s an SMBC about that (as there is about everything). smbc-comics.com / comic / recording
Eh, she turned on the “record all senses” feature – it greatly increases the rental fees!
Dabbler knows what’s up in that last panel. And I’m totally with her :-D
In fact, I actually heard her say that in the Mario voice.
I was going to comment on humans are actually famously good at being subjugated but the author comment beat me to it xD
They are also kinda awful a lot of time. Its a sad fact that demon administration would likely be a step up.
For a start i suspect it would cut down on a lot of corruption.
we are bad at staying subjugated thou, most of the views on slavery that come from fiction are usually wrong the reality is that most slaves werent treated super harssh the reason was double
first: slaves were considered a property, they needed mantainance, and the same way you dont smash your tv or your computer because it is expensive and you dont want to buy another one it was the same (of course that didnt mean that there werent some slave owners that dodnt hit or kill their slave on a fit of anger the same way some people have broken videogame controllers or punched a computer screen when they get angry)
second: slave revolts were a real serious concern they had to be constantly trying to stop, humans are bad at staying subjugated and we want to be free, push humans too much and we start to push back, a huge problem back in the day was when there was a slave revolt and many of the owners died, so it wasnt like they just grabbed a slave and that was it it was a battle to keep them in most of the time
and of course once the industrial revolution made slavery useless (it was always kind of useless and offered diminishing returns actually, a system of free, educated workers is always a superior system with or without industry is just that ancient societies didnt had the tools we have now to analyse data and didnt realize that fact) slavery was abandoned in most of the developed world pretty fast, in fact one of the last developed nations to abandon slavery was the united states but it can be argued that slavery was never productive to the states which is a reason why the south was soo underdeveloped compared to the north which didnt had slaves
Short version: It turns out renting people is cheaper than buying them, because you don’t have to care about their welfare.
Remember how Deus said that Maxima’s job is to maintain the status quo?
The USA was a penal colony for a long time too.
There’s also the Native Americans for slavery and subjugation both practising and suffering to add.
Since when? You sure you aren’t thinking of that other penile shithole, Australia?
I had heard of some Europeans getting exiled to America, but only in its colonial period and never as the land’s primary purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMdbVHPmCW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjkrjYitgeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML9h3I5Uktw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ4NuX0qWuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z9_Bp0nrXA
And it’s not like the ‘Native’ Americans didn’t have slaves of their own…
Slavery is totally a White Man invention, POC are never violent towards other POC unless forced to by the Whites
Slavery of other nearby tribes in Africa for example has been a thing since forever, the Europeans just expanded/merged the trade routes.
Not to forget, the white Europeans never really entered the ‘Deep Dark Heart’ of Africa where most of the slaves came from
So, who did capture them to sell to the whites?
Mostly a few specific African kingdoms and tribes on the coastal areas of Africa. Especially nations like Benin, the Bono State, Togo, the Ashanti (basically present-day Ghana), and the Yoruba (present day Nigeria). Also there were some intermediary groups like the Imbangala of Angola and the Nyamwezi of Tanzania who usually did the actual capturing or war-waging to get the slaves in the first place.
Hate to tell you this knob Jockey while I knock you off your high horse. Slavery is NOT a white man invention, it has been going on for thousands of years. The Arab nations used to sell Africans into slavery for example and introduced the Dutch and Portuguese to them
And before the Arabs introduced the Europeans to slave traders in Africa they used white Europeans as slaves (around 1.25 million from 1530 to 1780). It was basically just cheaper and safer for them to deal with the African tribes directly to buy enemy tribesmen (from an already very old existing slavery trade system) as slaves than buy from north african barbery pirates.
Georgia was started as a penal colony, and a lot of Jacobites were transported to the Carolinas. I think that’s the examples of large-scale penal colonization in North America. There were a number of people that came over as indentured persons, but they didn’t nessisarally commit crimes to become that, except for being in debt (a type of crime, to be sure, as defined by the rich).
In profile, he has no chin.
I just can’t get over that.
“Humans are famously bad at being subjugated”
I’m curious about the data set Maxima is deriving this conclusion from. How many species, exactly, has she compared to humans on this metric?
Oh, right: Zero.
While I agree 100% with you, we do have something else, and that’s really well represented by the power-level of the supers:
Humans are REALLY good at eliminating the competition, even if the competition is stronger, faster and has more claws:
Most animals have very close cousins, humans don’t. We eliminated all other form of Homo Sapiens, even the way stronger Neanderthals.
We also have to spend a ridiculous amount of energy in preventing ourselves from destroying every other apex predator.
The only reason we even have Lions left in the world is because we’re actually holding back on wiping them out.
Diseases are on of the few things we’ve not conquered yet, and we’re hard at work killing them.
Of course, hard to say how we would fare against interplanetary species, as we haven’t encountered them.
Humans fighting an interplanetary species would be like an ant colony fighting an exterminator
Ever seen a little movie called ‘Ant Bully’? Same thing happened, guess what… the exterminator didn’t win
Right now any even only moderately advanced sentient species can wipe out humanity, and all life on earth, by strapping an interstellar capable drive on a couple of large rocks.
A 15km asteroid traveling at 20 km/s cannot /quite/ get the job done on its own. One traveling at 3000 km/s (1 % of light speed, which is easily achievable with fusion drives) should have no trouble at all. If we speed them up to 30,000 km/s (10% of c, the highest theoretical speed that does not require clark tech) does not even have to be that big.
We have no technology that can intercept asteroids unless we know their trajectory many years in advance (and even then, all suggested approaches are either questionable or unlikely to work at all).
In this case Sydney can open an athereum gateway between the asteroid and earth. Bonus points if it is aimed at the throwers.
Sadly by the time Sydney knows a rocks lobbed at earth were already dead.
One thing thats always bugged me about films like independance day and so on,Theyre all so blatantly humancentric and thus convinced that a race thats cracked ftl centuries ago cant just snuff us all out in a heartbeat.Its reached the point that Id find more fun in watching the subversion and have aliens easily conquer us and barring a few awkward rules the human race benefits from it.
So you want to read the book: “Ten Points for Style” by Walter Jon Williams. It’s about a group of aliens that took over Earth, and wish invasion bring all sorts of better standards for living, better entertainment, etc. It’s based around a universe where thieves are allowed as long as they steal with style and they record their antics for entertainment of the masses and have lots of fans.
It’s hard to describe off the top of my head, but it’s a great trilogy.
For an education on the subject, just head over to reddit, and explore /HFY, lots of exploration of various aspects of this theme.
Ahh thanks for the tip!Ill check that one out.Also the thieves thing sounds delightfully alien,Makes me think of maybe a more advanced version of Sam Starfalls race in the webcomic Freefall =).
unless that rock is traveling at light speed or insanely close to it we can detect it with years of advancement, if not decades, even an object traveling at 10% of C wouldnt be imposible (in fact it would likely be easy because the amount of energy required to accelerate an object to that speed would light up the sky like a christmass tree)
Kind of reminds me of a tongue in cheek piece that was done in the White Dwarf magazine responding to why using meteors to bomb planets was extremely impractical.
But my point is that a race thats cracked ftl doesnt need a rock-they can light speed ram the earth with a garbage pod and the planet is boned and even half the speed of light hitting earth would be massive overkill that we wouldnt be able to notice in time-Also they dont need to launch something long distance-they can launch it in orbit if they want-thats the point of having tech advanced enough to make our known ideas of physics cry,After a certain tech disparity level we may as well be really angry houseflys trying to fight a volcanic eruption by headbutting it.
and what if they use wormholes to FTL, or warp drives ala alcubierre geometry, or something akin to star wars, halo, warhammer 40k or minecraft when in reality they jump into an alternative reality where the distance they travel is shorter in average than the distance in “real space”
the reality is that actually traveling at faster than light speeds just by pure acceleration is physically imposible as far as we understand it, and yes you could always argue that maybe our understanding of physics is incomplete and in reality is posible but i dare you to go and try to argue with an actual theoretical physicist that he is wrong and traveling at FTL speeds is posible im sure its going to be fun, the point is nothing can actually go ftl you can only cheat the system (usually by compresing the fabric of spacetime itself because we know that that is posible thanks to black holes and galaxies traveling at faster than light speeds)
also the amount of energy liberated by a light speed colision is usually overrated, you would need a shit ton of mass to trully cause masive amounts of damage and once again that would be easily visible, like imagine the size of the torchship required to accelerate a 10km rock at 50% of the speed of light, imagine the amount of thermal and ionizing radiation that would liberate, it would probably became the brightest object in the sky for a while and every single one of our telescopes would pick it up and since light travels faster than 50% of light speed it would reach us in advance, nuking a planet from orbit specially if the civ in question is advanced enough is pretty hard, now take into account that the grrl verse earth has people like maxima and sydney and it becomes even harder
we do have the technology (or we can have) to deviate an asteroid, NASA is going to launch in november the first DART mission to start testing asteroid deviation technologies so no, we wouldnt be that easy to eliminate
just to clarify we didnt exterminated neandertals, they kind of died on their own they were too big and bulky for their own good they required a lot of calories to keep their bodied going and after conditions worldwide worsened they couldnt keep their died and died of hunger, others were integrated into human societies and were absorbed by us until almost nothing remains of the original DNA
Because we’re smarter than the competition. Against demons, that no longer holds true.
We simply have no comparison on how non-humans perform in a culture-vs-culture subjugation situation, because we have no examples of non-human cultures.
Could be she’s making the statement to deter the invasion. If she can convince Tom that Humans make bad slaves, he might call off the invasion.
Probably not, but, hey, it’s always worth the effort.
Perhaps she is posturing.
It can be a useful tactic when you don’t want either fight or flight.
Maxima is most likely relying on pop fiction as her resource of humans not taking well to being enslaved, since there’s a plethora of examples in fiction about humanity fighting back against alien overlords or extra-dimensional beings who would enslave them all. Or even in religion in general, with entire dogma about how to resist having your soul corrupted by demonic entities who want to subjugate you in the afterlife.
Or Maxima might literally have other species she can compare humanity to, since ARCHON -does- know the Council, which has aliens and other extraterrestrial beings as Seats on the council.
Humans do just fine at being subjugated as long as they believe they’re free.
“We’re not here because we’re free, we’re here because we’re not free…”
::crossing fingers on the new film:::
Not even that high a bar; humans just need someone below them to look down on, blame for their problems, and feel like they’re better than. It is shocking the oppression and exploitation that people will happily suffer while believing things are right and proper, especially if you properly propagandize things that would actually help them as badwrong evil lies.
That’s pretty much the point of the Architect’s speech in the Matrix. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHZl2naX1Xk
The Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
The Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
——————-
Choice and Hope. The main two strengths of humanity.
The Architect: Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
I agree that humans being bad at being subjugated is western romanticism.
Done right I can see several ways how it could work. From the ‘Independence Day’ way if the aliens had been just a little bit smarter. To softer versions, in a way like Deus does it.
Offer people something better than they have with no downside?
is it really subjugation if you are offered a better life, better standards of living and education?
is not even nothing new what deus is doing is just bringing an african nation to first world standards
That could be an interesting discussion. The problem is it’s difficult without going into the details.
Just for the sake of argument, if someone would take over the USA, forcing better working conditions, higher wages, better health care and a ban of firearms on everyone with no other changes.
Would they go for it, or would they resist?
And yes, I’m aware that that’s impossible to do, but the question remains.
The USA? They’d resist. Just look at the COVID response for proof of that.
Most of Europe would jump at that in a heartbeat.
the US is already a first world nation thou, and many of the changes that you argue for would certainly be resisted by many just like they are being resisted currently, thing is people like having guns and the working conditions while of course being able to be improved are already pretty good in general (please come to mexico if you want to know what trully draconian living conditions are) and you cant just give higher wages willy nilly without hitting the economy hard specially with a 300 million population, its not that easy
the thing is the changes you could do to make the US even better are either negligible, inconsecuential, or would come with caveats, because the US is already an industrialized and developed nation with a sizable middle class which is the objective that Deus has for his small african nation, basically bring it to parity with the rest of the developed world not make it even better (well he will probably make it better but that is because he has access to alien technology which the US also already has btw thanks to the fel warship and the ftl shuttle they buyed with the money from the reward)
under those conditions yes any developed nation would resist being taken by an external force, and infact the only reason that small african nation accepted Deus is because they still have a local leader that isnt a trigger happy dictator genociding them and as far as we know Deus doesnt involve himself in local politics and the day to day running of the nation he only cares about the industrial development of said nation
> the US is already a first world nation thou
Medical Poverty’s existence disagrees with you there.
> the thing is the changes you could do to make the US even better are either negligible, inconsecuential, or would come with caveats,
Wow do you lack imagination. But so does the USA.
Here’s something that they could do *right now* but haven’t thought of:
Have Maxima superheat an object once a month with her energy blast, and use that stored heat to run a powerplant that could run the electricity needs of half the USA. 2-3 a week would probably cover the whole planet.
Or Opal could just make a perpetual motion machine and do the same.
The existance of Supers tends to break things like scarecity.
There are some interesting arguments for maximizing the use of superheroes, but in practice many of the suggestions wouldn’t actually work long term.
Capturing Max’s superheat for instance – what do we put it in that doesn’t melt, and how do we insulate the container well enough and still release heat gradually? Basically have to build a specialized building equivalent to a nuclear reactor, at which point you might as well fuel them traditionally (perhaps with super-enhanced disposal) instead of building a single-purpose facility that fails millions of people if Max ever misses a few days due to a super battle or being off-planet. Or eventually dies.
Opal’s portal power on the other hand is more sustainable – she could easily add lots of energy to a pumped storage system, which would still have traditional tooling for when she wasn’t around. Lots of other powers could be used similarly, augmenting non-super facilities instead of replacing them.
it doesnt matter, most people arent dying of hunger (stress caused by covid doesnt count btw since all the world is struggling with that, its not a US only problem), most people have access to the internet, electricity, water, gas and other comodities that btw most of the world doesnt have, of course the US is right now going through an economic crisis but crisis are momentary and its not the first nor the last one the nation will go through, people that truly believe that the US isnt a first world nation are just ignorant of the conditions of the world outside of the US, the truth is that aside from europe and japan people in the US live better than 99% of humanity
there are things that can be improved yes thats true but my point is that those changes arent just as easy as just, doing them
universal healthcare for example is all good and dandy but the problem is that the US is huge with a huge population and the impact of such a change in the economy needs to be quantified exhaustively before doing it, or else it could stress the economy even more, the reality is that the US is already spending huge amounts of money into healthcare so the entire system would basically need to be reworked from the ground up to make it more efficient which is easier said than done
those are the kinds of problems that a would be conqueror would have to take into account if they wanted to “improve” an industrialized and developed nation like the US which unless they had access to hyper advanced alien technology it wouldnt be easy to solve
meanhwile solving the problems of a small african nation while of course not being any easier its true that just building industry and providing education to the masses would quickly increase the living conditions of the population, once again this is easier said than done in the real world for exampe the greatest barrier to this changes is the local population itself, with soo much infighting within warlords, countries and vested interests between nations like china wanting to make it their playground you have a lot to fight against, most of this issues are circunvented in the grrl verse because deus has a group of super powerful and loyal mercenaries on his side
> it doesnt matter, most people arent dying of hunger
About 10% of the USA is below the federal poverty line (which is a laughably low amount of income to live on).
63% of Americans cannot afford a $500 emergancy. Such as getting injured enough to not work for two weeks if they’re on minimum wage. (If they’re on more than minimum wage then the severity of the injury needed to keep them off work long enough to be $500 in arrears is even lower)
One-in-three American adults are currently being persued by a debt collector.
Combine that with a lack of safety nets, a for-profit prison system, and the lack of funding for public defenders and you start to question how “first world” America is.
—
“[freeing slaves] for example is all good and dandy but the problem is that the US is huge with a huge population and the impact of such a change in the economy needs to be quantified exhaustively before doing it, or else it could stress the economy even more.”
Or we could just start saving people’s lives now.
Heal the sick.
House the homeless.
Feed the hungry.
It’s not hard, it’s not complicated.
And America easily has the resources to do it. In reality. Today.
All it takes is a desire to help everyone, rather than to punish people.
P.S. Have you all read “Reality Benders” LitRPG series? Great stuff!
OMG, I was right! He IS pushing for something more democratic! Granted, he’s planning to pitch to “voters” who are wealthy and influential, but that’s nothing new.
Now comes the questions… and if he has good answers, SYDNEY might throw her support behind him. Especially if she asks questions like “what kind of health care system will you be establishing? What kind of economy? What actual benefits can individual humans hope to enjoy under your administration?” If he can provide good answers to that… well, Maxima will be stuck trying to defend a system where “medical bankruptcy” is a thing.
“What kind of economy?” will be followed by a list of options and distinctions that he doesn’t know and doesn’t understand… Tom is a big picture guy, and he won’t be able to make a coherent argument that hasn’t already been presented on the power point.
Humans love being subjugated by people they see as their own betters.
Not by people they see as coming from an outside culture.
Somehow if you can claim virtue or wisdom, you can say the most horrible things and people think you are the arbiter of truth come to deliver us from sin.
It’s depressing how true that is. Including the literal examples of that in the form of televangelists. They say such wicked and vile things far too often (like Pat Robertson) and millions kneel and worship at his feet for it as they wholeheartedly believe he’s God’s chosen sent to deliver everyone from sin.
It never fails to amaze and sadden me how many people haven’t a clue what the word “sin” means.
(Did you interpret this comment to agree with Nightmask, or contradict them?)
And millions kneel and worship at the the feet of antifa because they wholeheartedly believe they are fighters for justice sent to deliver us from evil
America does like to make idols of its WW2 vets, yes.
Actually, calling Ren “Redline” works on two levels.
First, the obvious.
And second, searching his name would inevitably bring up articles and other information on the practice of Redlining neighborhoods, which would raise awareness.
No downsides to that name, given the context.
Downsides to the history, sure, but raising awareness of it has nothing but benefits.
“No downsides” if the character were originated by a black author.
There is no limit to the number of ways one could choose to interpret the name as offensive if the author were white.
There’s no limit to what can be found offensive by someone looking to find offense. Some, for instance, would argue that it’s racist to claim that a word or phrase becomes more or less offensive purely depending on the skin tone of the person who said/wrote it. For the majority (in number if not in shoutiness), context makes it abundantly clear whether offense was intended.
An offense made in willful ignorance can be greater than one made with intent.
Dude. You can’t call Ren “Redline” – redlining was an incredibly racist _federal_ policy that listed areas where Black people lived as hazardous for banks to invest in and, more than anything else, is responsible for the enormous wealth gap between Black and White Americans. (Most generational wealth is because of home ownership, which isn’t nearly as possible if you lived in a redlined area). So no, you just can’t call Ren “Redline” and disregard that. If nothing else,think of how Ren would probably feel about it! Or what it says if Archon forces it on him anyway. There are better names out there – make it a reader poll, or a Patron benefit, but picking a racist name because you don’t think racism should exist doesn’t help.
Here’s a serious question:
Would it be ok to call a white racist/Nazi character “Redline”?
He can name the character whatever he wants, his reasons for going with the name are valid. You not liking the name because it reminds you of a racist business practice doesn’t invalidate its usefulness or the author’s right to use it. If authors had to deal with everything being picked over and decided by other people not only would he never get anything done what was left would have no relation to what he intended to write in the first place. It’d be like that god-awful interpretive dance thing from the one Christmas episode of South Park when one protesting person resulted in everything about the Christmas play having to be non-offensive to everyone and what was left sure everyone agreed on it not being offensive because they all agreed it was awful drek. That’s what happens when you try and please everyone, it means everyone’s unhappy instead.
‘Oh no, how terrible it would be for the author to let readers come up with the superhero name for one particular character’
Except according to https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-970-those-names-are-unfoetunate/ “Redline” was suggested by a reader anyway, so maybe not the hill to die on here.
‘Oh no, however shall I respond to the misrepresentation of my post with that strawman.’
Not my hill and I didn’t die on it. If an author wishes to do so that’s one thing, that’s his right. I made it quite clear in my original post what my point was, that it’s up to the author to make those decisions for what he wants NOT for the readers to be making demands and requiring him to change the writing to make them happy. That results in crap writing with no relation to what the author wanted to write. YOU aren’t paying him to write this story, I’m not, nor is Terx. Oh sure some are obviously providing money in the form of patreon donations but that still doesn’t mean they’re the ones deciding what is and isn’t written in the story that’s up to the author. Sometimes you get the privilege of buying cameos and the like but again that’s the author deciding to provide that privilege he’s got no obligation to anyone to have to do it.
It would hurt the consistency of the comic were Ren to either come up with the name, or accept it uncritically, without considering the racist interpretation of the word, given his particular sensitivities. He could take it, and own it, provide some justification for it, but it would be hard to believe he’d be familiar with the mechanical meaning, but unfamiliar with the racist meaning.
Redline has another, more widely known use in the racing field, meaning to rerv up an engine until the RPMs reach or pass the safe, “Redline”, point. Dave just needs to explain that’s the definition of the word he is using. Any reasonable person will be able to accept that alternate definition with getting upset.
But reasonable people are so few and far between on the Internet these days… or any days…
He already stated he does not care.
As long as he is not also a Real Estate Agent, I am down for giving the term a better meaning.
It’s already got a better meaning – the far more we’ll known one is pushing the red line on a vehicle’s RPM gauge. When you’re redlining an engine, you’re pushing it to the very limit, in a dangerous way. I believe that was the original reason for it being suggested, since it’s basically what Ren does by constantly pushing his limits. I’ve personally never heard of it in a racial connotation, only a racing one, but then I’m not American.
Yes, but not from Terx’s point of view, and that is who I was replying to. Besides, I meant a better meaning in popular use for Americans, as that is where I am from.
Dave isn’t ignoring the issue… he’s wrestling with it. Both of the interpretations of the word have meaning and “edges” that are appropriate for a black character.
Hey, here’s how I’d handle it.
I’d have someone in-comic propose it as a name, and person #2 (let’s say Anvil) say “YOU CAN’T USE THAT NAME!”
“I CAN’T?”
“Sure you can,” starts Sydney, then Sydney with her wall-of-text power discussing the ramifications and whether Ren was coopting the word and owning it or how anyone could choose to interpret that he was praising a defunct racist policy if they were total morons and didn’t believe Ren had personal agency or if they thought someone else was writing the script for him rather than him being a literally empowered black man who was part of the most powerful team on earth although wait he’s really a lower rank just like Sydney so if they made that argument they might be right that he was just a pawn in a giant merchandising machine, and that wouldn’t be good because he really needs to be self-motivated and blah blah blah…
Ren again looks at Anvil… “I CAN’T?”
Smash cut to the merchandise at Sydney’s comic store …. and a diverse set of kids buying “Redline” action figures, and Ren signing them. In the background, other team members including Anvil, also signing but with smaller crowds. (Because they’ve been here before and it’s Redline’s debut according to the banner.)
(If Dave wants to do something like this, he’s free to use the idea as he wills, or ignore.)
Hmmm. The proposer could be that blonde-acting gadgeteer chick who did a cameo, just so the gearhead meaning is the first one regarding the proposal, and the proposal can be by someone who is oblivious to the other meaning. (Someone could explain to her in a whispered background bubble that we can’t even fully read/)
I think her name is Digit.
Sort of a play on the name Gadget from Chip and Dale’s Rescue Rangers.
Wasn’t there a page at one point where Ren talked about not wanting to attach race in some way to his superhero name? Wouldn’t it be out of character for him to then disregard one racially charged definition of the term in favor of the other definition? Sounds like inconsistent writing.
No. People just kept suggesting Punny names which he hated, like “Black Hulk” or “Blulk.”
It wasn’t because they were “Racially charged,” It’s because they were just genuinely stupid sounding. XD
I shall be calling him Redline, the super formerly known as Blulk.
So on Redline:
Caveat: I learned the racist term from this comic. I knew the automotive version, which according to the dictionary is the older term (1950s), while the verb redline is from the late 60s, and that’s the racist one.
I like the idea of it being an in comic discussion, that can inform readers and make more sense if it’s kept or not.
Terx. No. I dunno if you ever checked the financial/monetary environments leading up to the 2009 trainwreck, but the “redlining” practice was one of the policies holding a thumb in the dyke.
The 2009 crash had many causes, but all of them can be summed up as “financial and monetary incompetence by Congress Assembled”. The trigger, but, was that incomprehensibly stupid Congressional decision to force all banks to hand out “sub-prime mortgages” to anybody clever enough to sign his/her own name on a paper.
A sub-prime mortgage is one which everybody with more than a peanut in the cranium realises will never be managed or repaid. And once all the little banks found they could not pay their bills, the big ones had to carry the load. It didn’t help that entities like the Lehman Bros had already badly unbalanced the system beyond recovery.
Nobody liked the “redlining” practice. But the fact is that US wages/profit practice supported by countless State and Federal Congresspeople actually mandated redlining. Redlining was not solely aimed at African-Americans. It was aimed at any group unable to earn wages which would support purchasing a new house. The vast majority of these people could not even afford a car.
BTW. I never saw a “racist” bank. They’re too greedy for that.
Sydney may just be smart enough to have a “let the wookie win” moment. Let this jerk absorb all your incoming damage, and what’s the cost?
So he’s pitching what America claimed it was doing to Afghanistan?
I *really* hope Syd brings up that comparison :D
You mean, what was (slowly) working until the West gave up and ran away?
I was making no moral judgements except to point out to Max that he’s offering something America has been doing on Dirt for over a hundred years.
But Afghanistan was only “working” because of the American military bases protecting what was locally percieved to be a puppet government (read: foriegn power running your country for their own interests). Regardless of if it was making their lives better or worse, calling it a puppet government is reasonably accurate.
The USA isn’t Deus. It likes its slave nations poor and helpless rather than rich and efficient.
—
I actually hope that Dabbler introduces Tom to Deus and Dave has the guts to both engage with the political ramifications of that, and to break the status quo.
That may be a monumentally bad idea. ‘Murica has the idea that it is the best country on the planet thanks to a healthy dose of ignoring inconvenient facts, but Deus is under no such preconceptions. An embassy is immediately offered to Thoth and Co in his country, and they begin collaborative efforts in bringing African nations that have little to no trust in their governments into the fold.
Natural disaster in your country that the major powers only make a token (or no) effort to alleviate? There’s another option! We will set up polling places throughout your country, where you can vote on joining our growing family! If you vote yes, within 24 hours we will have boots on the ground setting up beyond modern infrastructure, healthcare, and food banks to help your nation, sorry, client state, get back on its feet and become the envy of its neighbors!
How is this a bad idea?
Sounds like a massive improvement to me.
i mean unfortunately, no, the fact that the people were able to actually have an education and improve their lives was good but the goverment was extremly pathetic and it fall apart the instant the US stopped giving them their support, like it fell apart inmediately it was quite a sight to see happening soo fast
Saved by the Sydney? Also, we’re lucky at least Dabbler’s shirt survived. Or maybe not lucky.
Dabbler is wearing a dude’s shirt. With four sleeves. The dude in question only has two arms.
Hmmmmm.
Dabbler has four arms.
And one of them has a Hammerspace she can summon stuff from. Which probably includes several shirts.
Either that or shirt is an illusion…. Given the previously stated robustness and versatility of a succubus’ glamour and Dabbler’s proclivities it’s not improbable (I’d put money on it even) that she usually wears very little actual clothing.
The same can probably be said for Cora and her hard-light projectors as well. We’ve seen both readily change their clothing and appearance.
Why summon an illusion of a single long shirt? Why not just put her normal outfit back on?
To make Max slightly less comfortable for her own amusement?
That sound like par for the course for Dabbler and her habit of ‘poking the bear’ when it comes to Maxima (and sometimes Sydney).
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-814-history-demonology-101/
(see Panel 3)
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-310-dabblers-happiest-meal/
(see Panel 6)
“and a lot of early colonists came here to escape religious persecution”. Post Cromwell and after the Dutch mess, the puritans and protestant extremists left to the “new world” rather than acknowledge that other Christian beliefs (not including the generally hated ‘Papists’) should be allowed to exist. They didn’t escape religious persecution, they ran away to keep pursuing it.
Yeah, the Puritans were really a repressive, fringe religious cult. Yet every year we idolize them at Thanksgiving like they were some great group of guys and gals. It’s kind of sick that we continue to worship the memory of those crackpots.
Like Americans really need an excuse to binge eat and watch football.
Bloody native Americans we send them a bunch of religious zealots that absolutely no one would care if they massacred them and they show them mercy. Well that turned out well didn’t it.?
That sounds a lot like certain Christian groups in the US today — the ones who say they are being “oppressed” or “attacked” or “waged war on” because other religions ever get representation. (Evangelicals, I think? Can’t keep them straight.)
Yep. Not being allowed to dictate other people’s lives means they’re not allowed to live according to their religious beliefs. They won’t extend the same rights to others that they demand for themselves.
Exactly so! The Puritans didn’t come to the “New World” to *escape* religious persecution, they came here to *engage in* religious persecution. They fled England because they were unpopular after the English Civil War (and by unpopular I mean associated with the treasonous murder of the previous monarch and with causing said civil war). They fled to the Netherlands (famous for religious tolerance) and realized that enjoying religious tolerance meant you also had to practice religious tolerance . . . and that was just not at all what they wanted, no sir, not at all. So they set off for a land where they could make their own rules (like “it is unlawful to discharge a firearm within the township, unless it be at a dog or an Indian” . . . an actual law in Salem).
I pity poor Thotbogoth, now that Sydney is being unleashed on him!
*sigh*
Over three weeks in hospital, 3 CT scans, multiple x-rays, ultrasounds & endoscopes and even transferring to a specialist hospital and they still have no idea what is causing either of my mystery conditions!
Is Halo missing a couple of mystery orbs?
On the plus side, I no longer have my food intravenously & I even get to enjoy puree curry every day. My body seems to be gradually regenerating itself!
I TOLD you not to eat the chocolate bunny but NOooo!
Buuut… chocolate yummy and bunnies delicious!
Well a mystery condition is a common way to gain superpowers so that’s a silver lining.
No good when the silver is your stomach lining.
Whoo hoo!
Can I haz two please?
*tail wagging eagerly*
Humans are bad at being subjugated … compared to what? There aren’t any other known sapient species that we know of. Whether humans are bad at being subjugated compared to the alien races/culture in Grrlpowerverse is purely a worldbuilding decision.
Maxima, who doesn’t have a good picture of the galaxy, is totally talking out of her ass. She got her ideas from science fiction portraying variations of the Humanity, Fuck Yeah! trope.
Gigantopithecus, Orrorin, Ardipithecus, Kenyanthropus, and the australopithecines Australopithecus, Paranthropus, Kenyapithecus wickeri, Danuvius guggenmosi, Pierolapithecus catalaunicus, Udabnopithecus garedziensis, Ouranopithecus macedoniensis, Otavipithecus namibiensis, Nakalipithecus nakayamai, Anoiapithecus brevirostri, Hispanopithecus laietanus, Hispanopithecus crusafonti, Dryopithecus wuduensis, Dryopithecus fontani, Dryopithecus brancoi, Dryopithecus laietanus,Dryopithecus crusafonti, Rudapithecus hungaricus, Samburupithecus kiptalami,
Etc plus Neanderthals, Hobbits & Sydney (her digestive system aint human!)
Are you implying that Sydney’s digestive system has been successfully subjugated? Because I don’t buy that.
Do you have records of any attempts at subjugating any of these species that we could compare humanity’s records to? Didn’t think so.
While sapient might not have been the best word choice on my part, since its borders are disputed, in the cultural/societal context we’re talking here, there’s nothing to compare humans to, so my point stands.
Of course we have records. Look at zoos throughout the world! Plenty of the members of that list in cages there. You will find that it has been quite a while since homo sapiens were subjugated in such a way. Mind you it is a shameful that such did used to be the case.
Citation needed. Name any zoo that has extinct hominids in cages.
And I find that humans get subjugated all the time – less than they used to because we learned that’s not a nice thing to do.
My bad. The original list I compiled was split roughly 50/50 between homids (extinct, as you say) and living great ape species, such as orangutans, chimps & gorillas. Sadly I was doing this on a kindle, in a dimly lit ward and my paws are not best suited to dragging text around a screen. So clearly I must have lost the present day species I referred to. So just to clarify my intent, despite my oops, there are loads of chimps et al in zoos, very much being subjugated.
Although one orangutan, in a South American zoo, has had certain of its rights as a person upheld by an enlightened court. Which ruled that a failing zoo could not be closed completely until the orangutan had been rehomed in accommodation suiting his status as a person. Unfortunately I have not since found out how that ended.
“in the cultural/societal context we’re talking here, there’s nothing to compare humans to”
All of the members of that list had cultures and societies. Some of the ones that have escaped extinction & being caged or eaten/used as medicine by humans still do. And many of those cultures mirrored early human culture. Not surprisingly, having originated from common sources.
Just because homo sapiens is the dominant species on the planet does not mean we should dismiss their existence or worth. Humans are just better at subjugating other species. Part of which is to dismiss those others as being lesser beings, not worthy of the status of being considered to be people.
Let us hope that a more successful species does not do the same to humans someday.
Although, if that does happen, I hope that my kennel is next to the human exhibit, at the zoo.
Did we even subjugate the Neanderthals? I think they just died out.
Nah, H. sapiens is — was — smarter than that, especially as it’s a very tedious thing to exterminate a whole people. We’ve only managed to exterminate — we believe — one disease in how many decades, smallpox.
However, H. sapiens was able to seduce the… er, less privileged… Homo spp into bed, thus ensuring the best of everything was kept for the greater good.
So the majority of current H. sapens now carries ~2% H. neanderthalis genes, as well as trace amounts of many other older species.
> All of the members of that list had cultures and societies.
That seems untrue, Australopithecus, for example, didn’t.
Neanderthals did, but it seems bad form to drop a list of items of which only one(although I haven’t checked every single one) actually qualifies. You could have saved us some confusion there.
More to the point, I’d like to see your records of Neanderthals being subjugated, because as far as I’m aware that didn’t happen.
Humans look good at subjugation because of the power our intelligence, via tools, weapons and tactics, afforded us. There is nothing suggesting we’d look any better if the power relations were flipped. As you say, we can only hope no one does that to us.
[quote]If demons actually did invade and saw all the shit we get up to they’d be like “What the fuck is wrong with you?”[/quote]
If you like a story like that, read the Salvation War saga by Stuart Slade (a trilogy but without a third part). The demons who actually roast human souls in eternal lava pits, try to conquer Earth and are positively sick after facing modern warfare, seeing it as undignified slaughter.
Some demons, after having held prisoner in a PoW camp with British Cooks, Italian logisticians, American enforcers (etc.) eventually rally to the human flags, and after being subjugated themselves, the Demons strive to become as sophisticated as the Human race, conquerors of the Afterlifes.
Sadly the third part was getting done, but Stuart passed away when he was only about 6 chapters into it.
Thank the Lords of War that he got stopped from writing a book where “President DJT” unites the world under his glorious fascist rule. I saw the first chapter and filed this sad attempt under “Nope” and got away as far as possible.
(The first parts were written and finished during the Bush presidency and occasionally revealed the man as a strategic genius, but it was not that blatantly obvious already, that Stuart had much less understanding of international politics, than international weaponry.)
We have evolved to feel satisfaction when we submit to authority, but only authority our brains recognize as members of our own species that’s limited to about 150 people. Yes, the US revolutionaries didn’t feel the British were actually human; most wars are only possible that way.
You can learn to include any number of people in those 150 through abstraction, or you can use your higher brain functions and recognize making decisions based on what feels good might not necessarily be great, but I’m thinking allowing an occupying army of foreigners that look like devils right out of The Divine Comedy is gonna be a hard sell.
> the US revolutionaries didn’t feel the British were actually human;
Zero evidence of this. You might be on firmer ground with the French revolution.
Killing in war, even killing civilians, didn’t have the stigma it does now. “Other” is not the same thing as “non-human”
I mean the basic brain functions I’m talking about have not changed in the last 200 or 2000 years, while the stigmas and the graded levels of “otherness” you’re talking about and the customs underlying them evidently has. But I don’t think we’re talking about the same things.
we havent evolved to feel satisfaction when we submit to authority, we have evolved to feel satisfaction when we accomplished a goal and usually the best way of dothat is by forming a “team” which usually requires a singular leader because that way is more efficient than having everyone giving their own orders with their own independent way of doing things, at that point is no better than doing something individually (it does depend a lot in the objective with some probably being better if you have multiple people who can lead)
this smaller “teams” naturaly evolve into tribes and eventually into bigger more developed societies because if ten people working together can build a house 1 million can build an entire city
As you say, we’re motivated to pursue accomplishment. I’m saying we’re also motivated specifically to organize groups to accomplish more. It’s a very complex undertaking to engage in social cooperation but we found a fairly simple emotional imperative supporting it to make it work. Something more understandable on an instinctive level than the concept of building a city, or even the idea of 1000 people. Didn’t think this basic psychology was somehow controversial.
Tom’s problem at this point is he is giving his presentation to the wrong people. You want to ask a state, or several to join your group, you give your presentation to the leadership or appointed ambassador; not the leader of their law enforcement/defense field team. He needs to have his representative make an appointment to present thier case before the united nations in this case. It appears he has people who are good with red tape.
You mean he needs to open with “take me to your leaders”?
“a lot of early colonists came here to escape religious persecution”
That’s actually not exactly true though if we’re talking about the Pilgrims and Puritans
The story of the American Pilgrim Fathers is a complete fabrication. They did not land on Plymouth Rock, but in Provincetown, Massachusetts; they did not sail on the Mayflower; and they did not flee from religious persecution. In fact, they wanted to carry out religious persecution, and create a country in which there could be no dissent from Puritanism. They hated the religious freedoms in England. In 1660 Puritans hanged a woman, Mary Dyer, for being a Quaker.
You are conflating two different groups, the Pilgrims and the Puritans. They were different bunches of people. I’m not going to spend a lot of time arguing here, I just present references to each group:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritans
What kind of question does Sydney have for Tom…!?!?
I bet it is about certain benefits and how they are financed.
Amongst many many other things, Halo would like to learn that size changing trick.
A never ending stream of more or less relevant questions if I know her right.
You may not care about redlining outside of the racing field (and you’re certainly allowed to name your characters as you wish), but your character (as a black American) would probably not choose the name. If he did, he’d probably have other black Americans point out to him the poor choice of associating himself with it. Alternately, I’d suggest something like “Overdrive” to capture the same essence of what you said you were seeking.
Dave! Have you forgotten to upload to patreon today?
And now Sydney makes everyone’s brains explode…
Weaponized ADHD
Dabbler was wearing a bustier. Where did she get the shirt from?
1)Magic’d it up
2)Teleported it from her lab, like she did with the Gauss satellite launcher gun thing
3) It’s an illusion, she’s either still wearing the bustier or actually naked, but glamoured up a shirt as appropriate just-had-sex attire
Yes.
A professional succubus knows the value of a professional dress code.
Plus, anything to tweak Maxi’s prude-senses :D
Dabbler may also be a professional troll.
K-Shirt!
In the author’s comment:
“We don’t of modern England of being remotely subjugatey” – should that maybe read:
“We don’t have modern England of being remotely subjugatey”?
If so: Sorry, this “have->of” is a pet peeve of mine. Otherwise, I don’t know what’s on there but something is.
That aside, I may have an idea about Sydney’s questions. Something about Health Care.
Neither version of that switch really fits. I suspect DaveB‘s accidentally dropped one word and switched another instead. probably while editing different versions of the sentence: “We don’t think of modern
EnglandBritain as being remotely subjugatey”.@DaveB… Ummm. No. England — Britain if you like, it doesn’t matter at this distance — was NEVER “one of those top 5 empires”, unless you actually mean it ruled the largest empire ever seen on earth, and ever will see.
Which is ironic, considering it was, at one time, strong enough it could all but totally eliminate the slave trade and also force a huge number of nations to abolish slavery. Britain never needed to pressure the USA since Abraham Lincoln was prepared to make slavery illegal in the USA if the Africans would put on Union boots to end the War.
And, AFAIK, Britain was the only nation to bankrupt itself to defeat the Axis Powers in WWII. That’s what Freedom costs.
Ahhh, yeah. I’m not a Pom.
I’m also not sure that the other countries still part of the UK would agree with the idea that England is not remotely subjugate-y after it was revealed This Year that several conservative candidates are on board with the idea of abolishing the Welsh Parliament or the PM, last year, rejecting any suggestion of allowing Scotland to vote for independence again after how close it was last time to success.
Maxima is definitely wrong about humans and subjugation. Her country has been a subjugator since the 19th century, not subjugated. So, I guess her perspective is skewed.
Throughout history, countless communities and states have been destroyed, with their people subjugated if they weren’t annihilated.
It’s how the Romans, the Chinese, the Mongols, the Europeans, etc. got Empires. (And lots of slaves.) It’s what happened to the Native Americans. It’s what the Europeans did to Africa, and parts of Asia. It’s what the Russians did in Eastern Europe and North Asia. It’s what the US did to Central and South American countries.
And it’s what the extra-terrestrials could do to Earth, without any difficulty. They don’t have to send a swarm of Kuiper belt objects flying at us. They could just threaten to do that.
Actually… if you pay attention, she’s still right. The US has invaded a lot, sure, but look what happened in Vietnam and Afghanistan to them. Or to the Germans in France and Poland. Or the Austrians after taking over Switzerland, or the literal hundreds of other times in Eather’s history of some larger power taking over a country, and getting resisted and eventually ousted.
Taking a country is easy. Holding it, not so much.
So many thousands of kingdoms and other states created by force over the millennia. No one even remembers most of the smaller kingdoms and cities and communities subjugated to make them.
And many of those smaller kingdoms were in turn subjugated to form empires. Some empire makers didn’t succeed. But many did.
Roman Empire. British Empire. Mongol Empire. Chinese Empire. Spanish Empire. French Empire. Portuguese Empire. Assyrian Empire. Egyptian Empire. And so on down the centuries. A lot of subjugation going on there.
Do you think everyone lined up pleading to be part of these Empires? History says no, unless you read the “histories” written by the subjugators.
Africans were doing a hell of a job subjugating each other long before Europeans moved inland
…okay? That’s entirely besides the point being made.
May want to ease off the trigger there.
the thing here is that most of those empires fell exactly because they relied on keeping the local population subjugated which eventually came back to bit their asses once the locals decided that enough is enough, every empire that you have named doesnt exist any more
the united states managed to circunvent this issue by virtue of conquering mostly virgin and undeveloped land with nearly no natives (there were natives and many of them were killed and subjugated yes, but others choosed to resist and currently they have even been granted some of their lands back) so that way you have no native population to rebel and destroy the continent sized piece of land that you dominated, that also seems to be the reason why the united states doesnt take “colonies” the closes to that is alaska which has a very limited population and no one actually wanted it ad hawaii which has its own history
“… every empire that you have named doesnt exist any more”
Mostly true. However, have you heard of “The Commonweath of Nations”? It consists of almost all the nations that were part of the Empire, and one nation, Mozambique, which asked to be admitted once Portugal had given it independence. All the nations which were granted independence were free to go their own ways, and still are to a great degree, and all decided of their own accord to stay in the newly created “British Commonwealth”. South Africa is the major exception, due to friction between the Dutch Boers and the English colonists.
Also, the USA isn’t Commonwealth.
One of the few ex-English-colonies that isn’t.
Very true. The USA was a lost proxy war against France, one of the first global (“world”) wars. This was the Bourbon War, which “helped secure American independence and bring an end to the First British Empire but turned out to be detrimental to the French crown. The cost of participation in the American war inexorably led to France’s own bankruptcy six years later, setting the stage for the French Revolution.” (Wikipedia)
And, given the date and the hostility, there was never the possibility that England would offer membership of an organisation which wouldn’t exist for over 1560 years :(
Oops. 150 years, not a millennium.
the Commonwealth isnt exactly the same, in general britain doesnt actually hold any power over any of the countries that choose to form the Commonwealth, they all are free nations like can you really say that modern canada is just a british colony? they choose to be there because at the end of the day they share a common language and a similar cuture and there is plenty of people that traces back to england but that doesnt mean that they are subjugated and any of the nations can leave at any moment giving the middle finger to britain is they soo desire
the british empire proper is basically dead, and the united states doesnt keep an empire proper but instead they have a shit ton of (independent) allies and powerful multinational companies
Yeah, because Israel and South Korea aren’t American military outposts…
I think you’re meaning the DMZ that separates North and South Korea, not that South Korea is a US military outpost right?
Also until REALLY recently (2017) there was only one US military outpost in all of Israel (the American AN/TPY-2 early missile warning radar station on Mount Keren) – a minor (albeit still important) presence (very few troops, mainly tech, no US flag). There’s now, as of 2017, a permanent US base in Israel within Mashabim Air Base, although that seems to have been at Israel’s request to help them with improving their air defense as well (at least partially because of all the rockets that had been fired after the 2014 Gaza war). Basically it’s a base within a base. Not exactly accurate to say that Israel is a U.S. military outpost either.
How much military gifts does America give to Israel again? How fast would it collapse if the USA stopped funding their military?
Same with South Korea.
They’re military outposts in all but name.
“How much military gifts does America give to Israel again? How fast would it collapse if the USA stopped funding their military?”
Depends on if we also stopped giving aid to the nations that want it destroyed.
If we did, then it wouldn’t collapse at all – it’s one of the most stable economies in the region, and a ton of US investors are there because of the sheer number of patents held by Israeli inventors and inventions created by Israeli countries
If we didnt stop funding the people who are trying to destroy it and using our aid for terrorist attacks then they’d be at a disadvantage (although they’d still also have a ton of US investors because Israel actually produces industries and products other than oil), but lets face it – it would be our fault then, since we’d be actively funding people trying to destroy that country.
“Same with South Korea.”
With South Korea it’s unlikely that it would collapse as well, although there would likely be war again since chances are… significant… that North Korea would invade South Korea if they felt there would be no repercussions. But South Korea is better equipped than North Korea, although North Korea has a larger military force. It would be more akin to the US Civil War, except with North Korea as the South, and South Korea as the North.
“They’re military outposts in all but name.”
They are not.
Forgive me for not trusting the guy who’s moral code makes the holocaust morally right because it was legal in Germany at the time to do it.
south korea isnt, south korea is a fully independent nation that is quickly rising in the world stage has one of the highest living conditions on the planet, a really powerful economy, a thriving entertainment industry that is taking over the world by storm, one of the highest levels of education, etc
it also happens to be one of the closest allies of the US because like 60 years ago they were nearly taken over by a comunist dictatorship and the US basically came to their rescue and rebuild the country in record time (the same thing that happened with japan and all of europe after WW2 btw) and while south korea did had a dictatorship for a couple of decades after the fact eventually he was kicked out and now a days south korea is a democratic nation, the only reason why there is such a heavy american military presence is because of the threat that both north korea and china represent to the interest of both the US and south korea (you know the whole launching nukes over japan and everything)
north korea meanwhile could be considered basically a chinese satelite state since the only reason they exist is because china fears that if both koreas reunify and since south korea is one of the US biggest and closes allies that would mean having american troops at their doorstep, so all that human suffering and human rights violations are allowed because china wants to preserve north korea as a buffer state between them and the US which is pretty scummy
israel is basically the same, of course america has interests in the region but that doesnt mean that israel isnt an independent nation, its a close ally of the US that has actually invested billions of dollars into its defense industry, in fact israel produces some of the best defense weapons technology in the world thanks to that that they have selled to many countries all over the world and the iron dome (you know the defense system that has saved thousands of lives since its construction since israel is being constantly bombarded from all sides) was partly build with the help of the US
so yeah i dont see how you can reduce them to “basically american military outposts”
I agree with everything you said here. :)
I think all that shows is humans are good at being subjugators, not that they are bad at being subjugated.
You know, that might actually be one of those rare powers that sits on the fence between Useless and Amazing:
The ability to make heads explode by talking to them.
There was a scene from Babylon 5 that encapsulates why humans are terrifying. We are persistence hunters, we don’t attack with teeth and claws, we just keep our prey moving until it dies from exhaustion, Our females can breed at any time, or as the Minbari ambassador put it we have no season to breed. We are constantly coming up with ways to do things with less of our own energy.
Dabbler knew this was coming and has been waiting.
Indeed. A Sydney with questions is a potent Weapon of Mass Distraction. Even Max looks a little concerned.