Grrl Power #970 – Those names are unfoetunate
Patron Kizik Ucalegon suggested “Redline” for Ren, and think that fits him pretty good. I’m sure Sydney will accidentally call him Renline a few times.
I’m not sure how watching two people fight in a manner that is beyond your capabilities is “training.” Well, other than familiarizing yourself with your teammates’ capabilities. Vehemence is just having fun brawling at this point. Punching an enemy or being knocked into a cliff is all the same to him.
I wonder if there’s a morning star somewhere on Middle Earth called “Antagonist Dagger,” or a two by four called “Disagreeable Party Hunga Munga,” a boot knife called “Opposition Macuahuitl,” or a spiked shield called “Corrival Urumi.” I would like to think so. Part of a set by the guy who made FoeHammer. I’m assuming he huffed mercury fumes in between projects.
Tamer: Enhancer 2 – Progress Update:
Not much to report. Did some minor edits, dialed in a new character’s personality a bit. Didn’t get a lot of time with the book since Monday’s update.
August’s vote incentive is up! I know, that thumbnail isn’t so enticing, but I promise, the rest of the picture is worth it.
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I think AMP (Amplify) works well. Plus Ariana will drool over the possible product endorsements with PepsiCo!
For the “Ren superhero name discusión”, the n the Facebook page of the previous page I suggested “bullet time” for the “special effects term” sinse Ren said that Everything in his perspective gets slower, and him faster, and the trigger is… Quite literally a “acción scene/survival moment”
If we abbreviate Bullet Time into B.T., pronounced beat, it can also reference his heart rate spike caused by adrenaline, and his beatdown of enemies.
Given they don’t like giving out details about powers something generic could be worth it. AMP would reveal weaknesses when not prepared thus a perfect target for sneak attacks for example.
Presumably more than just strength is enhanced as he needs to survive that strength.
Powers seem to form sets that make them viable to use. (My Here Academia for example doesn’t and the main character keeps breaking himself if he exceeds 5% of his strength.)
Erm…MHA power sets *do* form in a way that makes them viable to use. The MCs problem is that he got a fully developed power *late* so unlike most everyone else, he hasn’t had a chance to grow up with it and gradually learn control.
Why do we only see Maxima and Hiro in panel 4. From that angle we should see at least Dabbler as well, right?
Right!
They are further back from the edge
Loving Sydney’s face in panel 8, “hmmmm on the list or not on the list”.
It’s very minor thing to be on the list for, but Sydney’s possibly ill at ease with this new team member, that tried to snatch Max.
Then her brain does it’s usual switch gear……..
I don’t think she’s figuring if it’s listworthy….
I think she’s saying to yourself, “I don’t think you understand how this is supposed to work – but it’s super colloquial, so I suppose it wouldn’t be fair to call you out on it.”
Adrenalren!
‘Spike’
Please,not “Redline” for an American Black man. That brings images of how Black people bave been systimatically denied good housing. All part of the American apartheid.
Look up “Red lining” via Google or Wikipedia.
reminds of me of the culture trap, when trying to write characters with very different histories from your own, ethnicity, sexuality, nationality, disabilities, religion, ect… trying to come up with a name, occupation, and general traits; if you aren’t familiar with what they’d be familiar with one can unfortunately end up using stereotypes they didn’t realize were actually bad, hateful, and slurs because media uses them so much.
Also yeah, superhero names fall into this so often, one reason being how long ago some characters were made, the other the history of who is writing and not thinking about if something is accurate or simply not a stereotype. Some newer comics have been trying to avoid this, but again, if you don’t have someone writing or consulting who is actually from these communities one’s “sources” may end up slipping in some bigoted bias; that will come back to bite you if you use it.
Yeah seconded, “Redline” is not a good idea. It would be like giving a white christian guy with light controlling powers the name, “Uber Licht”, “Supremacy”, or “Purity”. It’s a super strong alchemist with curly hair named “He-Brew”. Did you ever watch/read The Boys? They had a supe of color named “Nubian Prince”(I mean they were trying to be racist as possible for satires’ sake).
I think you should have it suggested and shot down hard by Max and have her explain why it would be a bad idea to use the name of Institutionalized White Supremacy in housing as a BIPOC character’s name. Suggesting “Ikenga” because it’s the name of a god of strength and people would make T-shirts like “We like Ike”.
Blulk it is then. :D
Uh… Christian guy with light control powers… You mean like, maybe shouldn’t be named the Morning Star or the Light Bringer?
I mean, I recognize the cautions you made about it and those are also valid concerns, but I can hardly believe someone’s mind went there *first* given the set up “Christian guy with light control powers…”
Hil’mRed, there actually is a character called Purity in the comics – one of the Kryptonian worldkillers in Supergirl (the New 52 version). I think she might have also been on the TV show.
Also while there isnt a character called Supremacy, there is one called Supreme (and there’s also Lady Supreme). A Rob Liefeld creation when he worked at Image comics.
I think Nubian Prince was making fun of ridiculous character names which focused on the superheroes’ races and ethnicities, rather than their powers, like Apache Chief (which has NOTHING to do with becoming a giant), Samurai (which has nothing to do with wind powers), and Black Lightning (which… okay that actually does have to do with his electricity powers but there’s no real reason they had to add on ‘Black’ before ‘Lightning’ when Lightning would have been fine as is, as we saw from other similar heroes like Static), and stuff like that which was common in the 1970s. Although they did have Black Samson in Invincible, but again I think that was an ironic naming convention since he’s an ‘oldschool hero’ so he chose an ‘oldschool name.’
I mean, Redline (and, presumably it’s verbed form) *is* a completely separate automotive term unrelated to the term for a form of discrimination. But yeah, I see how it could be taken badly.
Yeah, we get the verb “redlining” from the motorhead habits (dating from maybe 1886, yes?) of keeping the taco at The. Red. Line. knowing exactly what will happen fairly soon but whp’s gonna be the wuss who pulls back?
@DaveB, we need Ren to pwn this term back into its rightful sense of “maxing the power but not letting it go too far and wreck everything before we finish the job”.
If some lesser mortals take it badly, is that their problem or ours?
Yeah, save that one for a white man with the power to create forcefields.
I think that superhero names should really reflect the hero or heroine’s powerset, not the ethnicity or race or religion. Or at least the hero/heroine’s ‘theme.
Ie, Batman doesnt have Bat powers but all his gadgets are bat-themed and his origin has to do with bats.
I mean it also has to do with a guy shooting his parents in an alley, but ‘Gun-Wielding Alley Killer Man’ doesnt have a very heroic ring to it.
I was trying for moronic sarcasm.
My bad :)
*What is your superhero name
Ironic
*Huh, what is your power
I spit acid
*What does that have to do with being Ironic…oh…get out
LOL, I like that scenario. :)
“Disagreeable Party Hunga Munga,”
You left out a Hunga Munga. You’ve left out the main one, too. Thought you could slip one over on me, didn’t you?
Restating my idea from last comic as people didnt quite understand what i said.
Sydney using flight and shield orb to fight someone like vehemence. She has been shown to not only have flown at escape velocity, but did so in a very short time and made slight but notable progress towards a moon. So mach 23 would be bare minimum for speed, likely closer to 30 or 40.
Shield can probably extend out several hundred feet as its their strongest area defensive technique they would have tested how big she can make it. Again at a minimum she can probably cover their outdoor training area so around 200 foot radius, which she just has to keep vehemence from getting with 10 feet of her which give 190/380 feet of clear space to bounce him around. By doing sharp angles like 120 degrees, he would go diagonally around the bubble never getting close to Sydney.
There are only 2 questions.
Can vehemence survive slamming into an immovable object at mach 24?
Is the violent energy he gets from said crash being done intentionally enough for him to recover from the damage?
We’ve already seen that Vehemence can be choked out. All Sydney has to do is grab him with the lighthook and fly him out of the atmosphere to beat him.
Wouldn’t that exceed her two orb limit?
Give her a spacesuit first? Orbs up her sleeves?
Just holding him off the ground would immobilize him.
No need for the light hook. Just keep bouncing him off the shield. She comes up underneath, with shield about 100 feet wide, bounces him off the bit of it between her and the sky, repeat as necessary. Once you get up where there ain’t too many air molecules per cubic meter, boost up to about 50 km/s (which SYD CAN DO!) and that’s well over solar escape velocity. Then say bye-bye. Problem solved.
Like playing reverse hackey sack.
And it would totally work, except Syd doesn’t actually want to kill him. She might get berserk enough to do it if he murdered Max or something, but otherwise – not gonna happen.
Kevin – green lines then yellow in the previous page and now back to green? Did he reduce in power during the wait back to green?
UltraGreen.
Last Panel: Max is telling everyone to stop fooling around…
But even she’s smiling.
Okay, I know he’s here as a punching bag, but Vehemence has been on-screen for three or four comics now… and hasn’t… said… a word… It’s kinda bugging me! Kevin’s a brawler, but he’s a gregarious brawler. This sort of grinning silence from him just seems… unnatural, almost. Is he on something? Maybe he’s got a magic muzzle? Hoping we find out!
or up to something, a major dropping the ball moment would be if he actually can teleport if he gets strong enough (as he adds powers as he goes up), and is hoping he can bide his time to get to that point. Or use that psionic influence he has; which before was more an empathic manipulation (making people not think twice about getting into a big fight they’d normally not get into; then straight up making everyone fight outright); to make them think *hey, it would be nice to just let him go*.
I agree that Kevin’s far too interesting of a character to simply use as a punching bag. I’d rather see the heroes engaging him in intellectual debate, but I suspect a vocal part of the audience would find that a bit dull.
Intellectual debate is not violent (so not useful for Vehemence).
Plus a long intellectual debate would be pretty boring for people who want to watch superheroes, as you said. Unless the intellectual debate is about how superhero powers work, in which case it’s not boring. And probably would become a fight. Because of nerd raaaaaaaage! :)
Max is struggling to not smile in that last panel. XD
On the naming thing, “doesn’t sound as good in English” I am reminded of that naming convention (make it sound exotic), typically where you name a move, monster, hero, robot, something from a foreign language so it sounds cool to people in your language; but invariably it is not going to sound as cool in its original language.
which is a bit of a reversal from the past and probably a reaction to it where we’d change a monster’s name for instance to something more pronouncable or closer to our own words. Examples
The movie Son of Godzilla, there are two giant “bug” monsters. In Japanese they are Kamacuras and Kumonga.
the English dub re-named them as GiMantis and Spiga. Years later people find out the original names, English audiences think they sound cool…although they are virtually the same thing; Kamacuras is a twist on the Japanese word for Praying Mantis (Kamakiri), and Kumonga a twist on the word for Spider (Kumo), So really you could call them Mantisian and Spidera and gotten the same relative affect.
Most Kaiju are like that, also a good reason to have translators treat names as non-translatables, including titles, treat them as proper nouns. We kind of do that too.
Superhero names for instance, Spider-man and Batman for instance are still called by those names in pretty much if not all countries that have the characters even when they have their own words for those because the original sounds cooler.
For instance Batman if translated to German would be. Der Fledermaus Mann (or Fledermaus Meister) if you want to try and sound a little cooler.
Der Fledermauster
Or if he also has guns, then
Der Fledermauser
The Flying Mouse?
Exactly, and was used as a joke in The Tick.
That’s the literal rendering of “bat” in German to English.
Use google translate, english to german, “bat”
It only guessed that would be the translation. I probably would have thought the same If I had seen Der Luftmausen.
But — I’m just a clever-dick! — ‘batman (n.) “officer’s servant,” originally military title for “man in charge of a bat-horse and its load” .’ (Online Etymology)
And ‘bat-horse (n.) In the British army, a horse for carrying baggage belonging to an officer or to the baggage-train. Also written bawhorse.’ (Wordnik)
Could it be that young Bruce saw himself as a (self appointed) servant of Gotham City?
But Detla’s right. English is not always the best language to bring out the essence of the person. We could try Icelandic “Hann sem kýla hans óvini” ?
“The Leather Patch”
https://satwcomic.com/i-m-batman
There’s some baggage attached to calling one of the team’s few black men “Redline.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
Yah. “THE Redline. Red. Line. Where YOU will STOP.”
What baggage?
Perhaps I should put in “Spoken by Ren to a bad entity”.
I wouldn’t want to be considered threatening to any one in a forum.
I so want to steal Vehemence for my supers game. His power portfolio is just too good not to use against players. My players haven’t murdered hobos but they are very combat-centric. Also, he would make a great boss in a D&D game.
Uggghrr… Dave, these puns are unfoegivable!!!
Accept the puns, it’s foe your own good.
if this was an 80s cartoon, he would probably called Dark Fister
you couldnt call him the black fist in this day and age, but the brown fist sounds worse.
One of those problems trying to write a character of someone else’s ethnicity, religion, culture, ect….if you don’t have a primary source the media sources can be…problematic…looking up a name of black superheroes (not just from America), the only ones that still work today are names like Steel, Blade. Spawn, Icon, and Black Panther.
noticing an odd trend, with the exception of Black Panther, just use a one word name seems to be the go to for most characters unless just using their name. Heck even Monica Rambou will likely be using Spectrum or Photon in the upcoming movie (The Marvels), which does go into that other debate on superhero names, one word or two…try to avoid three or more…just because it looks and sounds cool on a lunchbox does not mean it will work that way being repeated over and over by teammates,
someone once said of superhero names, “keep it punchy”
I agree that shorter tends to be better for the ‘callsign’ name as would be used in the field, but need that apply so strictly to the ‘proper’ name? There’s been a lot of question over how closely a new Super can legitimately approach the name of an older one – whether active or retired.
One approach may be to insist on unique ‘proper’ names for use in formal settings, but allow ‘callsigns’ to be closer or even reused if it’s clear that the Supers who might be confused for each other will not be operating in the same context. That’s similar to what’s currently done with actors: Union regulations officially state that names cannot be reused, for consistency of crediting, but that wouldn’t stop Michael Caine and Michael Douglas each being called Michael if they were the only one on set.
Maybe just a callsign of “Fist” then? :3
Superhero: I am the Fist, prepare to get fisted.
villain: *eye twitching*
Superhero: I am the Fist, prepare to get fisted.
Villainess: Would you really? Let me slip into something more rev…
Superhero: Is this a date? Or something?
“foehammer” doesn’t sound like a very good name for a sword, it sounds like “faux hammer” as in a sword that is more like a hammer than a blade, sounds like it’s heavy and blunt, not very good qualities for a sword.
Not good qualities for what a sword is expect to do, but… you can still do damage.
Albeit, by using it as a club, which already exists as a weapon class.
Which is why the Sword is usually called “Glamdring“.
I’m reminded of Occam’s Razor mentioned in Girl Genius “It’ll cut through darn near anything.”
how about high gear or overdrive it keeps the car meaning of redline with out the other possible meaning…
Hmmm…
Overdrive is pretty good, isn’t it…?
Yeah, that can work, the only other Overdrives in comics I know of are a Z-list *turned D and F…and the C for a short time because his writer really wanted to push using him in comics* Spider-man villain…whose power was nanites that he would infuse into a vehicle while driving it to improve its speed and performance but these traits would revert back to normal when he stopped driving it…
but its not like Maxima and Halo aren’t names also being used by superheroes and villains *DC in their case*, so yeah, that can work.
How about shifting it up?
Overcharge?
weirdly…also a Spider-man character. and has electric powers. Finding a lot of terms for boosting muscles and machines seem to really attractive for naming electrokinetics *which I am finding is alot more common a super power than I gave it credit for).
https://thedailybugle.fandom.com/wiki/Overcharge
I would suspect so many heroes mocking him asking if he has credit card problems, like naming your aerokinetic Over Draft. LoL
Ren has a classic tank power set; not the easiest thing to get a name for that doesn’t either reduce one to *just muscles*, heck there are so many some names get used A LOT like Blockbuster,
I think “Crash Strike” sounds cool…until you’ve had to say it one too many times, even trying to make it sound cooler “They Call me…Code Name Crash Strike”….which is that kind of code name that no teammate says just using your real name…which yeah…I mean if the idea is just to market his name, get action figures out there, T-shirts, but not really use the name in the field; then you open a bigger door of possibilities. Heck Luke Cage has a superhero name “Power Man”, doesn’t really use it anymore, not like they keep a secret identity.
Steel Fist, Foe Wrecker, Dragon Bicep….not that one…
Like I said, a name for a tank is harder than it should be if you don’t have a theme.
made of stone, steel skin ability, size changer, make a body part expand, spikes, energy forcefield, the powers of super strength, enhanced durability, are such a basic powerset that its almost always these days added onto, or else you just use your regular name.
I mean, its gruesome but Render, Foe Render *which sounds like an RPG character name when said outloud*…but has some other possibilities for puns.
But then again this is me thinking of a name, and I am hitting my head over a superpowered couple because I named them “Lash Fang” and “Lash Vine” which sounded so cool in my head to name a pair oi women with similar yet aesthetically separate powers *a Kronenbergian with a dash of Geiger style, eldritch bio-morph* and a *flora morph*. But find myself debating the flora-morph’s name because one I write not draw and those two names are awfully similar, and kind of wanting something more original. Lash Fang is a name I’d not seen before, but Lash Vine…eh…but like tanks, the flora powerset is hard to really get a good original name for unless you are just doing an expy.
Like “Strong Guy”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Guy
yeah, that’s how you know names for tanks/brawlers are in short supply. Surprised Marvel didn’t just call someone Strong-Man.
-and quick google search to see if that is taken..
which oddly does exist and is a public domain superhero. So anyone can use him, neat.
https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Strongman_(Holyoke)
Is there a mental hero/prankster on his team called “Wise Guy”?
google reveals…public domain villain
Wise Guy
https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Wise_Guy
which was clearly just a Mafia term, so eh…
as for Strong Guy, Quicksilver, Rictor, and Havok were on the team so no need for another wise mouth hero.
I was going to suggest Mr. Muscles as a joke.
Then I googled. And apparently he’s an actual superhero from a comic book from the 1950s. Although now public domain. He had sidekicks too – Miss Muscles and Kid Muscles. And together they were the Muscles Family.
I’m not sure why I’m mentioning this except that it’s incredibly amusing.
‘Mr Muscle’ is also a cleaning product
Mr. Muscle: He cleans up CRIME!
I new a black guy in the marines who everyone called juice and he was referring to getting pumped up for situations.
Here is some serendipity, Juice was used for the DC animated universe for an electric superhero *for a team based on previously unused Super Friends characters* for the Justice League cartoon. Basically rebranding for Black Vulcan.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Juice_(DCAU)
It’s actually funny how many African-American Electrokinetics there are in DC, given we’ve also got Black Lightning, Static, AND at least one of Black Lightning’s daughters got the powerset too, iirc.
Static [Static Shock] was an independent who got “acquired”, iirc.
Licensed, actually. Apparently Milestone Media still owns the IP. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Milestone_Media
“Juice” puts me in mind of a certain Bronco driving athlete.
We could always call him Stimpy………..foe heaven sake it’s a joke! Sheesh!
Zeno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes#Arrow_paradox
Vehemence has that IT clown smile going for him
Good thing that unlike Pennywise, V does not feed on fear.
Perhaps something to do with explosive force Megaton or Kiloton or just applied force like Dynamism
Panels 10&11: a name AND a theme song for the action figure. Ariana would be proud. (Notice how Max has a problem with the lack of attention, NOT the song itself…)
And since Sydney is similar to the target audience of hyperactive tweens, she’s the perfect limited focus group.
Well, how about ‘Linebacker’?
Is that for Vehemence?
Not to be a buzz kill, but the thumbnail for the new vote incentive on this page is so disturbing that you kept me from voting you up this time. Not everybody has the same tastes, and this comes down to a matter of taste, but thought you’d want to know. That expression completely kills it for me, and not in the good sense.
the full thing isn’t so bad, think its supposed to be the joke of being sexually spent to death, usually though you’d see a little ghost rising from his mouth for comedic affect and to look less like a corpse. It does detract from the rest of the very nice image, I’d be tempted to carefully edit him out of the pic and just have the three ladies lying on a bed. Or put a guy there that doesn’t look like they dug up and gangbanged a corpse.
Of course I think of this only after making that prior comment, and I can’t edit this into it, but I have to wonder whether Archon pays for this use of a quarry, or if the quarry is paying them for saving them the effort of breaking up so much stone.
Ad-Ren-alin. (cause bad puns are like balogna, the wurst).
Danger Zone. (which is beyond the red line, but I see that any reference to that has baggage, so maybe not).
Reflex (cause something has to trigger him).
Reply (he’s just gotta skill up his banter).
Or just “Zone”. Vague but useful, and he has to get into a mental framework for his powers to work.
If his hero name is Spike, people will think he can make quills from his body at will. Even though it’s actually about an adrenaline spike.
Indeed,
Spyke *yeah spelled with a y for some reason*, X-men Evolution’s unique character that was basically a male version of the comic book character Marrow, only with a very different backstory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyke#/media/File:Spyke.jpg
“Dial to Eleven”, as in speakers. “DTE”
“Syncopation” No idea really, just like the Babymetal song of the same name. lol
“Blulk” Figured I would try and sneak this one in there
“Jolt” as in Jolt cola, all the caffeine and twice the sugar
“Cascade” I was looking for synonyms of “Rush”
That’s all I got for now.
Noticing a lot of terms that could be used for boosting one’s strength also apply and have been used for electric powers.
Jolt sounded familiar, yep the one actually good character (as a common team member) of the Thunderbolts.
Jolt
https://assets.mycast.io/characters/174421_normal.jpg?1557864531
and DC has two characters named Cascade,
a 1990s “New Earth” Global Guardians with the rare to see in comics *seriously think of more than five people in mainstream comics with this as a main power…and are good guys at that* hydrokinesis,
https://boombastis.sgp1.digitaloceanspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Cascade-1.jpg
and
a teleporter, who is very 90s, and I guess can fly…weirdest thing is these two characters were introduced by the same comic book company a year apart, the Global Guardians one in 1994 and the Sovereign Seven one in 1995
https://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Cascade-DC-Comics-Sovereign-7-Rhian-Douglas-a.jpg
Ok, so DTE, Syncopation, and Blulk are still on the table then? lol
I would think so LoL…but let me do a quick google search…
Syncopation looks to not be used…Synch is though
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Everett_Thomas_(Earth-616)
Blulk is not taken…but there is an Incredible Hulk straight to video best left forgotten rip off movie called
The Amazing Bulk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Bulk
Dial to Eleven, nothing, except the Stranger Things character 11, Keven 11,
there is the H-Dial, or Dial-H, an item in DC comics that turn someone into various superheros…think the Omnitrix, only predating it by nearly half a century.
https://superheroes.fandom.com/wiki/H-Dial
Damn you’re a cornucopia of comic trivia. Or just did good online sleuthing. lol
both, I knew about Synch (Generation-X comics from the 90s), and the H-Dial, but was expecting that purple Hulk from Dexter’s Lab when looking up Bulk…I did not know about that movie…and something tells me I probably shouldn’t bother looking it up. Whose name on Dexter’s Lab is apparently Infraggable Krunk, not sure why I thought it was Bulk.
Amp for Ren? Short and sweet, even though it could be mistaken for a sound-based power.
At this point I am just using these comments to highlight obscure comic book characters. Got two here.
Marvel comics:
Amp
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Amp_(Michelle)_(Earth-616)
(empathic projection, and was just forgotten by the writers it seems. It happens, too often with Marvel sadly)
and
DC comics
Ampere
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Ampere_(Quality_Universe)
*a Z or D ranking villain, just a guy with a how powered shock rod and died by lightning*
I’d be surprised that any decent, and many silly, name isn’t attached to a DC or Marvel character at this point. :)
I’m guessing the name is already chosen… but you could probably go with “Kalm” (from Calm). I mean he just got tossed off a cliff and his response was “Really spiking thanks”. When introduced he demonstrated that he could observe without interfering even with the adrenaline surging through him.
Sure it’s not “aggressive” like Batman and Maxima etc.
I’d also point out that the meaning of the name Ren is Lotus (Japanese version) or Water Lily. Lotus can mean (flower symbolism) inner strength, tranquility. Water lily can mean peace. Both can mean purity. So it would tie in quite nicely not only with his character, but his name and his power (or at least how he uses it).
a song just flitted through my head; “Take it to the limit, oh Redline”
Ren should be call Overshare. People would flee in terror.
might need some light hook seating for delta and dabbler that cliff face is starting to look a little compromised and those two cant fly or teleport (as far as I know)