Grrl Power #944 – Something about interrupting a Colonel
FYI: People had been correctly pointing out that the “hyperdrive” branch of the skill tree needed an orb in the first spot, so I’ve added that now. Not retroactively yet, but at any rate, the OCD amongst you can unclench slightly. Also, the center ring wasn’t notated correctly. The “pizza slices” in the absolute middle light up as points are spent in the surrounding ring, and I had forgotten that when she bought the points there when she was on the Alari homeworld. So panel 1 is a fully accurate shot of the skilltree at this point in the comic. Until Sydney spends her new point, anyway.
Maxima is ridiculously (unrealistically) easy going most of the time when it comes to saluting and… I don’t know what it’s called. Military… affectations? All the snapping to attention, needing to ask permission to speak candidly, all that stuff. I’m sure there’s a term for it. She’s so lax that I’m sure some people forget Archon is actually military most of the time, and I have to imagine some readers who were in the military just politely nod and think “Military. Sure.” But I think we can all accept that Sydney, and actually a lot of the team simply wouldn’t thrive in a proper military environment.
I’ve actually considered a scenario where Sydney gets seconded to a proper military unit, like some naval unit needs her for some deep-sea reconnaissance or something. I just don’t think I know enough about military life to make that remotely satisfying to read, and also I don’t think it’d be very funny, because Sydney would probably get in trouble almost immediately and be in tears by the end of the third page.
Presumably, Sydney is actually learning all that saluting, standing at attention, and marching up and down the square. Just, off camera. I’m not sure that stuff would make for the most entertaining pages.
ANYWAY. Every once in a while, Maxima feels the need to remind everyone she is their boss and not to interrupt her the moment she enters a room then burst into laughter.
Twenty laps for Sydney is not the same punishment as twenty laps for Dabbler. Even if Dabbler wasn’t topped with tantric energy, she’s a fit adventurer who has been in her share of running gun battles and “must reach the dark tower before the demon god awakens” situations, etc. Honestly, even 40 laps would barely tax her. Max would need to consider something absurdly boring to actually punish Dabbler.
(Dabbler has summoned a little magical fan to blow cool air on her in that last panel, in case you were wondering what that blue thing was.)
The new vote incentive is up! Some of you got sort of invested in Lapha and Garamm, so her she is testing out her new duds. I don’t know if or when they’ll show up in the comic again, (probably more a question of ‘when’) but we’ll have to see if she got any other options besides the tail. Personally I’d go for retractable, venomous fangs, but presumably if you get those, you also have to get a special upgraded pancreas or liver or something, in case you accidentally bite the inside of your own cheek with your fang.
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Something about seeing that coming.
Yes, twenty laps sounds a bit dour to Sydney, for sure…Not quite so for Dabbler though.
As a “super” Dabbler already has a good physique (in many ways) plus she’s had lots of intense exercise & physical training (outside of the bedroom too) for who knows how many years. To get anywhere close to a “super” physique Sydney will have to still put in a lot of work.
To get anywhere close to a “super” physique Sydney will need a radiation accident.
And it would be so redundant…
Yeah, I doubt Sydney would ever be considered muscle bound but she could work up to the lean, runner physique. Given her other assets, endurance would probably be a good training target.
Remember that as far as Dabbler’s concerned twenty laps is nowhere near enough.
After all, anyone can do at least a few hundred if their tongue muscles are reasonably fit.
You are a very bad bear.
I approve regardless.
Grin and Bear It.
Admittedly, I first interpreted this as 20 exchanges like the prior, and was puzzled why that would lead to throwing up.
Sydney has made remarkable progress if she actually can run 20 laps now.
Well – since the laps apparently took place inside a moderately large conference room…. still not that impressive. :P
It looks like if she holds two orbs at the same time, a specific power-up link will happen for those orbs. I would suggest trying it with the forcefield orb and life-support orb to see if you can get the life support on automatically while raising the forcefield.
So much this
Probably only if one of them is filled up to the point where that little fernlike squiggle comes out in the direction of the other.
Hmmm. Nope (to myself).
Yes, there’s a specific node to connect any two, in all directions. Iirc, when you choose one orb, you have to put it into that one. I don’t think you’d even have to touch the other one to activate that link, just select the node that goes toward the other orb.
Maybe you are right with the method in how to assign the point into the dual-linked slot. I remember that she just placed it into the TrueSight orb after she couldn’t release it previously, but never saw an attempt to place a point into two separate orbs and just assumed.
Either way would work. I’m just curious as to the effect of doing this.
What I want to know is what either the “orbLinking” and the “sole wide arm” does. They both appear for all orbs. orbLinking is only existing between the “unknown/powersource” and the “traveling/Flight” orb.-
The “sole wide arm” is only in the life support orb. At first I thought it was some sort of manual for the orb, but it’s obvious that not, Sydney didn’t know jack about the life support orb. Perhaps is some sort of “adaptative” feature for the orbs, meaning the life support, now knew the details of humans life support but it seems iffy…
The point is that those two, need to have some sort of effect that is valid for “any combination of orbs” and “any orb” respectively, so it has to be some sort of… generic upgrade…
Checking some responses down the line it appears the Top Orb is the PPO, not the Unknown, so That means that the link between orbs could be that it allows one orb to work through another. Check, the only orbs “linked” are PPO and Flight, And she has the “window ability”… that allows the PPO to be used from within the shield, perhaps if she unlocked the connection between PPO and telepresence, she could fire from it!.-
As for the “wide sided lone arm” that all orbs have, and only the Life Support has, There is an “autopilot” idea proposed, the orb came to her when she NEEDED it, even if she didn’t know she could use it for that.
Isn’t making Sydney do laps in her current “state” a potential security breach?
Bad Colonel!
Not a military person, but imho, making Sydney do laps at all was abuse of Max’s rank.
“They were laughing at my autoriteh!”
We can tell you’re not a military person. A recruit mocking a colonel to her face? That is Article 89: Disrespect Toward a Superior Commissioned Officer. Officially punishment for that is meant to be decided by COURT-MARTIAL, and potentially could result in a bad conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for up to a year. Sydney is actually incredibly lucky that Max just went with a mild administrative punishment instead.
This isn’t about an ego thing. Disrespecting a superior officer can reduce that officer’s ability to command, as more and more people decide not to listen to them, and can thus render a unit completely non-functional.
No. It totally wasn’t.
Max has to NOT be part of the familiar interchange of banter and social games between troops. If she’s “on their level” socially, then she’s ONLY “on their level” when she gives commands that absolutely positively have to be obeyed right now.
The Max that Syd & Dabbler can mock is not the same Max who can order them into danger when both believe that they know better than she what to do. And Max’s JOB requires that she maintain the ability to give them orders and have those orders carried out even when the people in her command believe that they know better. Higher command trusts her decision making more and gives her more information than the people in her command, and she has to be able to use both.
Max may not enjoy being taunted, but making Sydney run till she pukes BEFORE SPENDING HER POINT AND THUS CLOSING THE CLASSIFIED SKILLTREE seems excessively petty.
We agree, at least :)
Not just that, Sydney is powerless while the otbs are in this state.
The Air-Ball sensed she was drowning/suffocating (or was about to) and chose the upgrade.
Here Sydney has taxed her body physically.
Which Orb would respond to that? And how??
Health points? Stamina points? Strength points?
I can see, in her current completely drained and exhausted state, Sydney flailing around with her hand and accidentally hitting a random point on the skill tree. That would show Max.
My major worry in all of this is that there could be a consequence to keeping the skill tree open for that long. I mean, it’s been a while already but it feels like a risk. At the same time, this seems like the best time for investigating the orbs further. Krona could see more details so maybe some of Dabbler’s or Spec’s abilities could reveal more, heck even bringing Krona in might be good (although possibly seen as a security risk since she’s not under any Archon authority.
Unspent points may expire after 99 minutes
or
be assigned randomly
or
fill in the lowest empty node automatically.
Keep in mind that trying to spend that skill point in an optimal manner while the ADHD Super involved is having a major giggle fit AND too wound up to speak in words is equally pointless. Making Sidney run laps until she calmed down is a viable strategty for dealing with ADHD. The fact Sidney ran at a sprint and nearly puked is ENTIRELY her fault. Looks like she still hasn’t figured out that “punishment laps” are intended to be at a jog.
Yep, she’s definitely in the military.
Still for her to run 20 laps that’s pretty hardcore considering how she started a few months ago
Also: I love staring at the skill tree. So many possibilities and so many options!
Did DaveB say whether or not he knew what they all are?
Okay, each Orb has a single double-lined node coming off of it. The Life Support Orb is the only one that currently has it lit, and it was lit when the skilltree was first shown in #181.
In #541, when Sydney was having issues in the pool, that Orb came to her. I don’t think she actively wanted to use it, but it knew Sydney needed life support right then.
I think the double line nodes are the autopilot/safety nodes, so filling that node on the Shield Orb would be a good idea.
That’s an interesting guess. But didn’t Sydney buy the similair node for the Truesight orb back in #183?
Any indication that the Truesight orb is orperating in autopilot mode?
Actually I am wrong. She spent it on an orhpaned node but it wasn’t the double.
Sydney’s spent five points so far.
#181 – CommOrb – Enabled the Teleport option.
#510 – PPO panic buy – Got the Rapid Fire and Shield Aperture.
#660 – Flight Orb – Unlocked the Hyperdrive/Aetherium Gateway path.
#672 – Flight Orb and Central Ring – Aetherium Gateway enabled, 3rd ‘Pizza Slice’
The panic buy from #510 is missing here. It is shown in #659 though, the next one on the PPO’s ring clockwise.
I was thinking the Pew Pew Orb needed that extra point as well, thanks for confirming I’m not totally insane (a bit, but not totally) :D
As long as we’re putting it in one place, I believe this is the list of orbs, clockwise from top
red : unknown (I’m guessing computer)
blue: fly ball
purple/squiggle: tentacle
orange: ppo
green: unknown
yellow/bee: comms
purple: force field
You have the red and orange mixed up. The ppo is the red one on top, and we don’t know what the orange one is. Also, we know the green one is life support, though we don’t know a lot about exactly how it functions. We saw it in action in the pool when it created breathable air around her.
Wait, are you positive? That means that the link between orbs means that it allows one orb to work through another. Check, the only orbs “linked” are PPO and Flight, if you are correct that the top one is Flight. And she has the “window ability”… it could be Sidney Always had it, but she didn’t realize.-
As for the “wide sided lone arm” that all orbs have, and only the Life Support has, I like the “autopilot” idea.
you are correct about red and orange. In the skilltree, the ppo has the loop of multiple attack styles.
And green is “airball”. We know it jumped to her hand at need, so I’m assuming that the enclosed node is “self-activation”.
Hmmm. No telling why PPO and flyball have their link lit up, or what effect that had. Perhaps improved targeting based on knowing your own motion?
I think we should rename the Pew Pew Orb to the Dakka Orb.
No, the panic buy is the second node on the same branch as the “cutting beam” which is kind of a bad name since that attack involves a lot of explosions usually. If you look at page 181 (checks page 181)… well, shoot.
Okay… Somehow my master file is one orb short. If Sydney has three pip filled in on the PPO donut branch, that would give her three separate attack types. I’m not sure what to do about that now. I think I may need to retcon back that third PPO point and leave her with just the two. The other option is for her to suddenly realize she has a third attack and never experimented with the holo-runes on the PPO. Hmm.
If you retcon #181 you will more pages to update. Like:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-659-the-greatest-challenge-upgrading/
Yeah, it’s easier to say Sydney just hasn’t experimented with the PPO. It’s dumb she wouldn’t have, but it’s also a little amusing.
There might be a complicated attack option and that explains why she hasn’t automatically made it happen. For example something like a smart mine. You need to specify trigger conditions, like targets, targetting range and area or arc, number of activations, power either as a discrete setting and or reactive, for example non-lethal. It might also take more time to use so it just never happened.
Be careful though. Something like that can allow strange things to happen to the story.
Other examples.
The telepew pew. She can shoot from her teleprescence. That probably depends on a link node.
The point defense. Something like a missile enters her area and she automatically takes it out. Also phase cancels energy weapons.
The area denial aura. If she decides she really doesn’t like the crowd she is in, she becomes the center of a persistent fireball.
The Calm Down Beam. A Non Lethal Attack. Maybe paralysis or stasis. She really could have used that when she was captured if she could have reached her orbs at least.
The Nuclear Beam. A beam so powerful she gets a pop up that says are you sure? It takes a count of 30 to unlock it. Being Halo suddenly seems like much more serious business once she can take out whole cities with one shot.
The double barrel. She needs to hold the ppo in both hands but it more than doubles the rate of fire.
Anyways all that you need is somebody like Krona to look at it and suggest she might have another attack mode. She doesn’t have to ever work out what it is. It could also just be a subtle upgrade. 25% more power, and higher rate of fire might not be noticed.
Well… She DID experiment with it ONCE before she joined Archon… and it kind of caused a forest fire, so I figure she never used it again before Archon and hasn’t really had a lot of opportunities since it’d require the full firing range and probably Maxima’s presence to ensure nothing went wrong. Then there’s the worry Maxima had about experimenting at even Archon HQ, so I can easily imagine they’ve been cautious.
There’s also the odd way the pips go on that donut. She has the cutting beam and then one more pip into the centre, then the third pip went around. So was there supposed to be anything special about the pips that extend from existing ones into the centre compared to pips following around the wheel or is each and every one of those pips just a completely different attack type (for 12 total attack types)?
Dave says that the PPO donut = 12 separate attack types, but I’m thinking more 6 standard and 6 ‘enhanced’
The outer 6 o’clock node is just a normal PPO explodey bolt, the inner one for sustained fire, that’s why Sydney had trouble with it testing it on the tank, she was too close to use the exploding bolt, so she had to mentally switch it to the ‘safer’ cutting beam.
Rapid Fire is the 8 o’clock outer node, so maybe the inner one is multi-beam? Using the spaceship analogy, it represents ‘more phaser strips on the hull’.
@yuffiek: Possibly. By Dave’s reaction and pip allocation in this page, I suspect the rapid fire was supposed to be the enhanced/alternate version of the cutting beam, which I guess is less powerful in penetration sense but wider in area coverage with some variability on that.
So in that sense, the only similaritis between the cutting and rapid-fire is that they’re heat based and “shooting” types I guess. This could mean that further pips around might be completely alternate in either the type of damage they do or the way they fire.
Eg, water gun and ice gun for a different damage type, exploding grenade and exploding mine for a different way of “firing” or attacking.
The other option is that there’s simply no special rhyme or reason to inner and other pips with each simply representing different attacks
Wasn’t the truesight orb node for unlocking the ability to teleport to her telepresence projection ? :) (though can’t absolutely sure about it, given the unlabelled skilltree ;)
Still waiting for krona to come take a proper look at the open skilltree ^^
That is not an unreasonable guess, given that she had recently spent a point before finding that power.
But I don’t think we can completely rule out it wasn’t one of the great many nodes she already has activated and whose purpose is unknown
“Did DaveB say whether or not he knew what [they upgrade nodes] all are? – Jagged
If I remember correctly, DaveB has mentioned having the full tree already mapped out in his notes, or at least the vast majority of it. In part that’ll be abilities that he intends Sydney to unlock eventually, and I’d bet there are also a few that he’s decided she will not ever unlock for one reason or another. How much of that full map the reader ever sees activated on page, and how soon, is a separate question.
At a point every 3 months, we will see the entire tree by 2150.
Well. I meanwhile still think it was a mistake to run Archon like a military unit at all.
Instead of something like a police force.
They are still acting like the supers need them, more than they need the supers.
And they are guaranteed to lose a lot of them to crap like that. I certainly would walk out on a boss who could not take a joke in private in a heartbeat.
And these supers are usually not the ideal soldier material who would expect and tolerate this kind of punishment. Priority here should not be to make superheroes but to not create more supervillains. Deus is waiting with a truck full of money for supers to drop out of ARCHON.
So very true. As far as I can tell, the main thing holding many supers from going rogue is the threat of getting Max unleashed on their ass, but once you get a power level similar to her own, or patronage by a more accommodating boss like Deus, the issue goes away.
Creating an organisation like Archon is an expensive and risky procedure so giving it a veneer of militaryness was probably necessary to be able to dip into Americas famously large military budget to get things going(In fact if it wasnt loosely classed as military it mightve been a lot harder to get Maxima on board via official channels).
That said its very telling that a decent chunk of their recruits are criminals who were given no jailtime and a”free airplane a month” worth of pay offered if they signed up.In short Archon is a logistical nightmare where the “heros” are given a lot of slack(Maxima included who seems to have a hardon for gunship diplomacy) to keep them sweet and the whole house of cards is mostly held up by what the metas can get out of working there than any actual interest in helping the public.
Because they’re expected to engage in military-esque operations with lots of lives on the line.
For a position with that kind of power and privilege attached to it, you definitely want some strict discipline and accountability.
Settling for less sounds like a The Boys situation waiting to happen.
The sad thing is Archons already on a slow boat towards a The Boys style situation which is only held back by the writer not wanting reality to ensue XD.
Well you can’t be too realistic in a superhero comedy. Comedy is what Dave does best so I hope he will let the rule of funny decide what happens in the story.
This something TPC seems to miss.
Repeatedly.
What do you mean?
The main cast is much more well trained, monitored, and socially adjusted than The Seven currently. And I don’t see any serious signs of that changing.
They’re definately not trained like standard military, but also not untrained like the seven.
They’re inbetween, which, imho, is a sweet spot. Enough training to keep them from going power-mad, but little enough to keep them from hating it and not joining despite having a very profitable skill-set.
Archon is just as much baby-sitter-to-supers as it is military, but framing it in a military form does let them take pride in membership rather than just feeling watched.
Military courtesy is what I have heard it called.
Military courtesy.
Military decorum.
Military etiquette.
I am sure each branch has different acronyms for it, but the basics are the same. Some superior officers are fairly laid back as Max is, but there ARE LIMITS.
I look forward to seeing Sydney having to clean a bathroom with a toothbrush. (And without her powers!)
The over all term for this is Military Bearing. You carry yourself in s manner of professionalism at all times (read that as “when required”). That’s paraphrased, of course…
…”acronym?”
*puzzled noises*
The military I knew had acronyms for EVERYTHING.
Maybe I am just old.
AFE: Acronyms For Everything
Sydney, Sydney, Sydney….
It’s normal to make fun of your commanders, it’s fun… Just not advisable to their face..
I dunno. 30 years ago, my training company is sitting on a rifle range, waiting for a rangemaster who’d partied a bit TOO hearty the night before.
So the drill instructors KNOW we’ve been mocking them behind their backs and they want to see the impressions.
One of the guys in our platoon was so close a match to 3rd platoon’s DI that he actually fell them in AND LEFT THEM THERE once after a trip to the range.
So he has everyone (even 3rd platoon laughing).
The tallest guy in our platoon has a skit for one of our own DIs (who happened to be the shortest guy in the entire battallion). Had all the NCOs laughing so hard they were falling over.
My bunk buddy finally gets up and does his impression of our 1st Sgt.
Seeing as this was Basic, and most of the company were guys fresh out of high school (and away from our parents for the first time), his language was a bit more…colorful…than First ever used.
He finally winds up with “ANY QUESTIONS?”
And First, who’d just arrived, pipes out “I’ve got just ONE question! How many times have you heard me use the word F*** in ONE SENTENCE?”
To this day, that man is one of my personal heroes.
He absolutely SLEW 130 soldiers in two sentences…
Honestly? I was in the military for four years. I’ve been in business almost thirty. I cannot imaging a workplace anywhere where someone of Maxima’s organizational position would take that sort of reception with no consequences at all.
Heck, these days, doing that to anyone is going to get HR’s attention.
This was a breech that needed to be immediately addressed. And was.
military etiquette I believe
Military bearing.
Having somebody run till they puke sounds funny and all, but doesn’t it count as workplace abuse? Does US military have any rules against something like that?
Not the last time I heard. Oh, and they can order you around and you can’t just quit, too.
Not YET anyway. Maybe someday. After all, emotions are FAR more important in today’s world than SURVIVAL!
I am sure that sooner or later, SOMEONE will ask THE ENEMY to stop shooting at them because the bullets flying are ‘stressing them out’. I do wonder how that will work out for said speaker?
Just like it happened historically for several declining civilizations (cfr. the Byzantines tearing themselves apart with hair-splitting theological disputes while the Arabs were knocking at the door), it is going to end in conquest and domination by stronger polities on the rise that could not care less about this “feelings of oversensitive fringes matter most” collective insanity.
I do not like their authoritarianism one bit, but one silver lining about our upcoming Chinese overlords that I welcome in this regard is they do not give a rat’s fart about this loathsome woke bulls**t that has gripped the mind of the West.
Authoritarianism leads to strength in the short term, because it focuses on culling the weak, and perfecting a particular order. In the long term, however, it gets passed by more tolerant, free cultures, because they encourage creativity and new ideas. Most of those new ideas may be worse, but the occasional improvement can give them a significant advantage over other cultures. Progress through evolution depends on both expanding and contracting factors.
The meek shall inherit the earth… if it’s all right with everybody else.
the Meek are actually an alien race we just haven’t met…yet.
(Although in Planet Hulk, we are introduced to an insectoid warrior named Miek, which sounds the same in my head)
The meek shall inherit whatever’s left of the Earth.
The rest of humanity (or whatever it evolves into) likely won’t come back except to visit.
Peter H. Diamandis: “The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us are going to the stars.”
Unfortunately, ‘progress through evolution’ selects only for what is good at getting itself passed on in the short term rather than for what is actually beneficial in the long term. The same false assumption underlies democracy and capitalism: that myriad local-optimisation choices will (be correctly implemented and) sum to find the overall optimum.
Ehh, not really. There are some evolutions which are the equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot which are kept around because while they are detrimental to the individual, they are beneficial to the species as a whole. The only real example of evolution working through short term solutions is pandas, and look whats happened to them.
Evolution is a long process, and it does select for overall long term viability in any sustained setting. If a species “good enough” short terms solutions itself into a pit, it will die and species that went for more long term solutions will prosper.
Of course obvious exception with … demographic? shift. Is that the right word? probably isn’t. But when the ecosystem changes very drastically, *then* short term solutions are picked for because long term solutions would take too long.
Hence the use of “short term” rather than “individual”. Yes, there are some cases of traits that benefit the family group at the expense of the individual. But they’re generally only selected for if the payback is quite close and immediate, because there are so many other pressures going on that can be effective first.
I wouldn’t call “short-terming into a pit” (nice phrasing, by the way) and being replaced by something else necessarily a triumph of evolution. If anything, it’s a failing of the process: changes in species 1 – which were evidently beneficial at the time – and/or its environment accumulating to a state where it is no longer viable. It’s a vindication of biodiversity, in the sense of having a potential species 2 to take over what remains of species 1’s niche, but biodiversity and evolution are not the same thing.
More generally, evolution can only ever react to what is present in the here-and-now. It cannot look ahead to prepare for future changes, it can only choose from among the options that chance presents rather than optimising with knowledge, and it’s always possible for a promising line of development to be erased by events it cannot influence. And so we end up with such examples as vertebrate eyes, in which the light-sensing cells are installed backwards and have been for hundreds of millions of years.
All remembering that evolution has no purpose, it’s just an emergent effect.
Overspecialization leads to dead ends, which increase stress. High environmental stress increases mutation rate, leading to radiation, increasing diversity back to sustainable rates. Also, parasites push organisms off of local maxima.
But in hte long run, organisms go extinct anyway, because life.
Civilizations rise and fall. Nothing new there.
HOW it happens is usually fairly bad and because common sense survival skills are ‘not politically correct’ to teach in today’s modern America, we can expect to see a LOT of casualties.
Now as to WHO will conquer? That remains to be seen.
I don’t think the Chinese WANT to rule the world, because frankly, who WOULD? (Besides Trump that is!)
Okay, let’s do this.
First, define “common sense.”
Second, tell me what you think “survival skills” are.
Third, define “political correctness.”
Fourth, explain how this impacts “survival” in concrete terms, in the real world, as opposed to a hypothetical scenario.
Fifth, list exactly what nations are currently engaged in interstate industrial wars of conquest.
Sixth, explain how “political correctness” and “conquest” intersect.
Seventh, explain why you default to China after asking “who will conquer.”
Yes, I am calling you out, and putting you on the spot.Yes, I am a veteran, and have direct experience with the topics at hand. I am also milbrat, meaning I have had these issues baked into my personality & thinking since early childhood. I am also a Poli-Sci, meaning I have literally made these issues part of my professional training beyond the military.
So, you have the floor.
Explain yourself.
Common sense-
Hard to define, I know.
In today’s America, it is perfectly sensible for people of certain backgrounds (MANY backgrounds) to walk up and insult anyone they want. it is sensible for them to attack, verbally or physically anyone they want because they can. Because they are of a certain background and they think that gives them the right to do anything they want. It is both ‘common’ and ‘sensible’ for them to do that.
It can also be damn dangerous, but no one seems to care about that these days.
Survival skills? Knowledge of terrain, knowledge of behaviors, knowledge of what is available and what can be used to survive. Case in point- Big strong moron walks up to me in the middle of a work night, threatens me in the middle of a work night. Yes, he was far larger than I was and clearly stronger than I was. ‘I’ was holding two packets of liquid. One of ammonia and one of bleach. He never noticed. He was FAR too busy being a loudmouthed moron to notice I nearly killed him. (and maybe myself and three or four other people, but hey, he got what he wanted! He got my attention.)
Seeing as how MOST people I see these days seem to think of survival as ‘go to corner store and buy more chips’, yeah, if the trucks stop delivering food to supermarkets, or the gas stops flowing, we have SERIOUS problems. How many people know how to make a shelter? How to cook without a gas or electric grill? How many would even TRY these days? (Most I know would wait for me to build something and try to steal it from me. Then they would likely die and I would have meat for the winter)
Interstate industrial wars of conquest? Name one country that ISN’T! Many do not WANT to be, but when everyone else is doing it, why shouldn’t we?
Politically correct conquest = Trump Diplomacy. Kill people and make money. Kill people TO make money. Kill anyone and everyone including Americans because lives do not matter. Only money and power matters.
Last but not least? China WILL conquer in the end becasue they do not think in terms of years or decades. They think about CENTURIES. They think long term where I would say 80% of Americans these days are lucky if they think about what they are having for lunch. The Chinese probably won’t even NEED military force since they own so much US debt anyway.
Maybe I am wrong. I actually hope I am. But as I see it looking up from the bottom of the cesspit? I don’t think I am.
I’ll ask you to “define China”. The Geo-political landmass with more than 30 separate ethnic groups? Each with their own (very long) history and traditions? The (two) countries who currently have the word “China” in their official name? The far-flung communities of Chinese ex-pats who have enough local government control to actually NAME their locations some variant of “Chinatown” or “Little China”? (Whether you call those communities ghettos or colonies depends on your perspective.)
Or do you mean the collection of politicians in the PRoC who are currently declaring themselves the “Officials In Charge Of All Peoples Who Identify As Chinese”? Because while their internal police force is quite impressive and powerful… the actual army who would nominally be in charge of “invading” is… not. I mean their most recent battle was a mele brawl with Indian soldiers fought with baseball bats! And in spite of heavily outnumbering the Indians… they got their asses kicked!
Of course the PRoC officials know the state of their army and have a really impressive book for “atypical warfare”. Lots of stuff in there about how to kill people in other countries without bothering to actually get boots on the ground first. Plus stuff about how to scare them off from attacking YOU. Technically the USA is already at “war” with China. Only the history books will be able to tell when the war is over and who won.
… Historically, china worked with 5 year plans that usually crashed and burned miserably. Their eradication of the four pests for instance led to a nation wide famine because while sparrows eat grain, they eat a lot more insects that would’ve eaten a shitton more grain.
Also, China owns a bit over one trillion of US debt. The US has well around 25 trillion dollars of debt, most of it owned domestically.
China invests in US debt to keep chinese export prices low, rather than the megalomaniac political control you are framing it as.
Also for some reason you equate america being conquered with complete or near complete societal collapse with people reverting to live in the wilderness? That would only happen even possibly in the very short term as the war is raging in the backyard. Even then, possibly not. America is a pretty big country and the effects of a war definitely wouldn’t be felt evenly.
“Oh yeah, we conquered a massive country and promptly made it have near zero economic value instead of doing anything productive with it”.
Also, survival skills aren’t really taught in america for two reasons, neither of them are for being politically correct or not. Firstly is that they aren’t needed in 80+% of americans’ lives, and pointedly in the parts of the country where they are needed, they are taught. Alaska has week long wilderness treks as part of its standard education. Arizona and other places where you might suddenly find yourself stranded have similar stuff. Farming towns usually have a good deal of rural skills (not quite the same as wilderness survival skills, but close) in their education.
The second reason pertains to Home Ec and similar, but boils down to america cut those out of the curriculum to make way for more math tests because of an ass backwards approach to education.
Heck, the only areas of education that you can make an argument were cut for reasons anywhere near political correctness is sex ed and some history/politics. Bunch of religious moral panic about sex being taught in school, with the people panicing also promptly not teaching sex out of school and resulting in people who don’t know how to have safe sex. The history facets is the dark sides of america’s history being grossly minimized. Tuskegee experiments, MKUltra, operation condor, ajax, etc.
Your claims about education and safe sex are … amusing. If you can perhaps point to a place in the United states where “safe sex” was taught and the pregnancy rate went down? Knowing how to put a condom on a banana in no way affects what a teenager will do when hormones are raging.
But seriously, where are you getting that china thinks in terms of centuries? They very publicly think in terms of five year plans. Their one/two child policies are very emblematic of them not actually considering the even two decade since ramifications of their actions.
They are on the 14th 5 year plan btw
The various government administrations run plans that usually don’t work. That hasn’t changed in thousands of years.
The people who ACTUALLY run things? They think long term. And no, I don’t know who they are in that geopolitical area or really care. They leave me alone, I leave them alone. Our interests do not conflict. If/When they do? That will be different.
Until then? I have my own problems.
Okay, I followed most of that, until you connected “Trump” with “conquest”. Trump shut down several wars, mostly by changing rules of engagement and winning, some by pulling out. For example, the first big peace deal in the Middle East in nearly fifty years.
The new/old crowd up there are busy putting their conflicts back in place.
Split it between Canada and Mexico maybe? I can think of far worse overlords.
That’s true though, that in today’s world, emotions are far more important for survival. We’ve solved most of the natural problems we face, and most of the problems we encounter in our lives are either self-caused, or caused by other people. Survival now isn’t a product of strength, or speed, or any physical attribute, but instead dependent on our ability to tell convincing narratives and manipulate emotions to get people to treat us well. Success is far more dependent on your relationships than your skills or abilities.
This has always been the case. It isn’t a product of the industrialized world.
Social behavior has been our species most effective survival strategy, dating back to the first hominids. It is, literally, how we developed everything we have, starting from The Sharp Rock & Fire, through Agriculture & Specialized Labor, to Finance & The Internet.
This idea that emotional intelligence, empathy, altruism, and cooperation are, somehow, separate from any other evolutionary trait, or learned skill, is not only utter rubbish, it is actively harmful. Consider: why do cops Murder so many people? We can talk about racism & aggression-based training, but at the core, these are both examples of the same behavior: breaking social behaviors. Both racism & police training teach one to dehumanize & other people. To not empathize, not seek cooperation…which isn’t as insane as it sounds.
What is better, a cooperative suspect, or a non-cooperative suspect?
A cooperative suspect would be better for the police, but will often be less likely to obtain. At least, that is what all those Colombo episodes taught me as a child.
The use of the term “murder” is unhelpful, in terms of failure to make critical distinctions.
Do you have any database that effectively distinguishes between accurate police killings of violent perpetrators, citizen-initiated death by cop, and gratuitous police violence that could reasonably be called “murder”?
Or do you deny there is a distinction to be made?
You’re talking out your ass.
Stop.
Yes, actually, there are rules.
Many rules, in fact, all of which can be summarized as, “they are not allowed to actually injure or harm you, intentionally.”
Without going into a lot of inside baseball, the abusive practices on which the tropes & stereotypes are based have, in most (not nearly all) cases, been addressed. For example, the “screaming in your face” isn’t allowed any more. It serves no actual purpose, beyond gratifying an asshole, and frequently undermines the confidence & capability of a given recruit. It can, in fact, trigger a cycle of abuse, which easily cascades outside the ranks, and into personal lives.
Boomers & Gen X’ers, raise your hand if you had a parent with any sort of military background enact this exact behavior with you, as a child.
The only people who complain about the change of this sort of abuse being phased out are the wanna-be’s who think it’s cool & bad-ass, and the victims who internalize it, and seek to propagate the pattern of abuse, to either justify their experiences to themselves, or share the suffering because, “I had to go through this, so you do too.”
For example, kalenath, who seems to think that being abused & traumatized by your superiors is a necessary component of being able to return enemy fire, because as we all know, only those who have been conditioned to submitting to abuse are able to actively resist violence, as history has always shown us, since ever.
love the play between Dabbler & Sid :D
yeah it is generally called Customs and Courtesies, and there are whole classes dedicated to it.
a good link
https://www.army.mil/article/238173/military_customs_and_courtesies_a_soldiers_perspective
(thumbs-up-icon)
The term you’re looking for is ‘customs and courtesies.’ Also, military can be pretty chill after initial training schools, so long as you know when to switch gears.
Yeah. I think this was an example of not know when ;)
Dingdingding!
Military customs and courtesies.
I’m no expert, but as I understand it, the formal rules about saluting etc. strictly apply only when the officer is in uniform with insignia of rank. In the case of a lieutenant colonel like Maxima, the insignia is a silver oak leaf on the shoulder epaulets. Is she in uniform here? I can’t tell. It seems she rarely is.
Of course, the informal rule to respect your boss or else always applies.
There are also rules about covers (hats) and in or out of doors.
But the basics are simple and haven’t changed much since the dawn of recorded human history. Show respect to those who are above you in any hierarchy or BAD THINGS will happen. You may not respect the person, but you BETTER respect the position.
History abounds with examples of all kinds.
In many cases also, the degree of respect demanded will depend on the setting. There will often be far more leeway when off-duty than when actively on the job, even when the exact same people are present. The joking around between Sydney and Dabbler would probably be tolerable while they were waiting for seniors to arrive, provided it did not detract from their readiness; the problem is the failure to change gear when the boss is on deck.
Saluting rules are different in different organizations. Navy and Army indoors come to mind. Navy does not generally salute indoors (they doff their covers usually, and you don’t salute when uncovered). Army is different (iirc, they do salute uncovered). No clue what ARCHON is doing in this instance. Strikes me more as a para-military unit. Chain of command exists, but we’ve yet to see the full breakdown.
So if that’s the fully accurate depiction of the skilltree, what does that mean to the PPO and rapid fire mod?
Maybe Sidney got the refund she wanted. But it’s more likely that forgot :D
The upgrade was purchased in #510 and revealed in #659
Something about laughing my ass off!
So hold on a min here… I’m assuming that most of the branches are stats for the powers on the orbs to begin with. Using the yellow one as a clue here, does that mean that at the bare minimum the single divorced nodes on the orbs with the line but not necessarily the track ones are additional powers? That shield orb looks like it has a secondary power as well. The interesting part is probably the linked nodes between orbs. Note the one between the PPO and the fly ball. I’d bet a good bit that that one is some sort of flame trail or something to that effect. Money says that the one between the fly ball and shields is a shield rush slam.
There’s something odd here. #510, the PPO has 5 nodes lit, then Sydney panic upgrades it and gets the rapid fire option and shield aperture.
Here though, the PPO has THE SAME FIVE NODES LIT. It didn’t go to the Shield Orb, that has 4 nodes lit here and in #509.
So, where did that point go?
Took a while but I found it. #659
Interesting… I’m going to chock it up to consistency error, but it does rather pose another question. She farmed out 3 points on that trip. The beginning one went to the new tree on the fly ball, one went to the pizza slice in the center, but where did the third point go? I’m comparing the current tree with the past ones and I can’t seem to find a point where it was spent at all.
#660 is the first point she got on the Alari homeworld. It went to the fifth node on the flight track to fill it up and unlock the hyperdrive track.
#672 is where she spent on hyperdrive node #1 and pizza slice node #3
Well if it was the Royal Navy Sydney would be treated as a “Boffin”, an expert, specialist, or scientist attached for some mission or special project who is possibly also eccentric.
They wouldn’t be expected to know military protocols, so would be given rules to follow while onboard.
Don’t know if the US Navy has something similar though.
I assume any competent military force that has used civilian specialists for things has evolved such rules. I know the US military has many manuals for such things. (Seeing as how I DID work as a civilian contractor once. :) LOTS of reading involved. Good thing I liked reading!)
If you leave the rules open to interpretation, you get a mess generally when you mix civilians and military. Better not to. Bruised feelings will heal. Lost lives will not.
The US has two different categories of such. The first is the “Civilian Contractor” who is not technically part of the military. Contractors often deploy with military units but they have very strictly limited roles, usually relating to equipment provided by their employer or interaction with local populations.
The second is the “non-commissioned officer” – who has military rank because of specific responsibilities that could otherwise be undermined by a clueless officer of superior rank, but generally no command responsibilities. An example would be the nuclear technicians aboard a nuclear sub. They don’t give anybody orders, but they also don’t get hung up doing shit-work for a lieutenant who doesn’t understand that they aren’t just making excuses when they say the reactors have developed issues that absolutely require their attention. And they don’t get their orders about the reactor treated as being less important than orders given by that lieutenant for other purposes.
As others have said, customs and courtesies is the term you are looking for. As far as how strict things are….there is a sliding scale.
Boot camp is super strict. Combat arms tends to be fairly strict. Office setting can be relaxed. USAF is more lax than USN is more lax than USA is more lax than USMC.
Special Operators tend to be relaxed as hell when they are around regular troops.
This is a weird setting because they are kind of special forces, bit also have an integrated boot camp, are a joint task force, and have law enforcement rolled up in there.
Seconding this. I read ‘Archon,’ I think ‘Air Force’ in terms of culture. Depends on the unit and all that, but there has not been sufficient ‘oorah’ to make me think USMC/USA. I can just see Sydney getting culture shock if she had to hook up with a Marine battalion. Oh, god, what if she panicked and popped a lefty when saluting?
Ah the joys of starting up a whole new organization and trying to figure out which set of rules, procedures, protocols and to use and what not to use. Made worse when borrowing personnel from multiple different sources and cultures.
It’s also tricky because Archon personnel are absolutely NOT interchangeable in any way. They are there for their unique abilities, and underline that word UNIQUE. You can’t develop doctrine here that assumes some common level or even some common kind of mobility, offensive and defensive capability, intelligence-gathering capability, visibility to opposed forces, etc etc etc… so learning what constitutes effective tactics is a one-off procedure that can’t be generalized.
You also can’t really develop a routine of discipline that assumes disciplinary actions are of equal value when applied to different recruits. Syd is wiped out after 20 laps. Most of the supers, having perfect physique, would be substantially less so. 100 pushups would be a struggle for most, and probably out of Syd’s range entirely, but Anvil or probably Math could do it one-handed without bringing their feet in contact with the ground, Achilles couldn’t even get tired no matter how many he did, and Hiro can do them on one fingertip even if he doesn’t use his ability to fly. And incidentally Max has no way to detect whether Hiro doing pushups has his full weight on his hands or has 80% of it supported by meta-human means.
So combat doctrine and discipline are both complete one-offs here, and Max has in her command a job whose complexity is out of all proportion to the number of people she’s commanding. And considering that Syd could probably blow the top off of mountain, she has a job where the consequences of failure are also out of all proportion.
Prestige and payscale aside, this isn’t going to be an easy job.
Dave, you forgot the point in the ppo firing modes.
Most of what I know about the US military is from stuff like Generation Kill and Terminal Lance. Based on that deep well of expertise (snerk) I’d have to agree that seconding Sydney to a regular military unit would end with her getting snapped in half.
That’s assuming that the officers of the regular unit were stupid enough to waste such an asset. I can assure you–they are not.
I know what you are getting at. And certainly, Sydney’s lack of bearing, lack of discipline, lack of physical training, and really, lack of pretty much anything military other than the willingness to go into harm’s way on behalf of civilians, would present an immense challenge. But her combat capabilities are mind-boggling. Sydney + one officer to point her in the correct direction can punch through anything any standard military can offer in the real world. Defensively, she appears to be able to handle a B61 near miss.
The unit would improvise.
While the running laps bit is funny, would Maxima actually allow sydney to run 20 laps outside with the skilltree open? She just told Detla not to look at it, but I would guess if ARC had any enemies, those enemies would be spying on the headquarters as much as they can, the outside being the least shielded part yeah?
Looks like she made Sydney run 20 laps around the ROOM. Not only does that make more sense than going all the way outside and back to do the laps – but it also makes the number of laps more plausible. Sydney is a long way yet from doing 20 normal-sized laps.
I honestly hate the military aspect, especially considered that Sydney pretty much got pressganged into the whole thing
It feels super petty and mean, hell, downright abusive. She just happened on something, and now someone who can’t take a joke can at any time make her life a massive misery, and unless she wants to be a supervillain, she just got to suck it up
Yeah, I’d agree with other people and say that I’d expect this program to make way more supervillains, by this logic, I know I would
You and me both. The moment I get Sydney-level superpowers and the Man shows up trying to boss me around with this crap is the moment a new supervillain is born.
And what would a reasonable response be for the rest of the world to take to you acquiring superpowers, and then attempting to boss other people around with them?
It’s not like they force everyone with super powers to join Archon. You just aren’t allowed to take the law into your own hands just because you have power. If you want to fight supervillains, you need to follow the law. It’s an attempt to deter “might makes right” thinking from dominating.
IIRC, she wasn’t press ganged. What happens was they were very blunt that super powered vigilantism would be punished by law. They offered her the chance to [i]be[/i] a superheroine. She has the full right to withdraw from Archon if she would be willing to return to either ‘running a comic shop’ or ‘using her powers in a legal way’. I’m fairly sure they also mentioned that banning or drafting super powers was a recipe for super villains.
She has the full right to withdraw, at intervals. I remember the Army being a four-year hitch; once you sign on, you’re on for at least the next forty-eight months. When the forty-eight months are up, you have the opportunity and full right to withdraw, or re-up for another four years.
I don’t know how long a hitch in Archon is, nor their promotion schedule – though at the moment they seem to be operating more on ‘field promotions’ than ‘scheduled promotions.’ But her right to withdraw isn’t a right to withdraw at any time.
Uh, Sydney was asked to join (made fully aware of the military aspect of the job) and accepted.
That’s not a pressgang by any measure.
If you don’t want to join the military-esque super group in GrrlPower-verse, then simply don’t and make lots of money in the private sector. As we’ve seen numerous supers do already.
Okay, I’ll bite: In what workplace have you been where someone of Maxima’s organizational position would let that pass with no consequence?
Indeed, these days, doing that to anyone is likely to get HR’s attention.
The fact that the military has ways to handle these things without anything going on your permanent record is a feature, not a bug.
She has a dozen or so direct reports. Organizationally, she’s a low-level manager, a project manager or a large team lead. There’s not a single decent one of those I’ve ever worked with, or for, who upon walking into a room (in a non-emergency) with people rolling on the floor laughing, would have taken offense to being included in the humor.
However, martinet is Max’s basic setpoint, so it’s in character.
She could have just yelled “attention” and it would have achieved the same purpose. But that wouldn’t have been as funny, so it is what it is.
That being said, if it was 20 laps around the room, then the punishment was as much a joke as the joke.
I’d say that Maxima and the superiors at Archon have realized that strict military rules and extranormal abilities and situations do mix only to a point, hence the usually relaxed attitudes. Though there are limits. On one side, if she’d gone by the book, Sidney would not be back from her trip to outer space, because I doubt that the book even has a chapter on that. On the other side, there should be at least some discipline and orders should be followed unless of course the orders don’t cover a changing situation.
There is also the part of public appearances to consider.
A disciplined appearance is often well-received, on the other hand, they nicely contained the recent ‘alien situation’ by getting the aliens focus on them. While some would love to talk to aliens, considering you could (in theory) accidentally agree to get eaten or worse? That’s something survivors will bitch later while screamong about their rights being trampled on when the aliens are kept away from them.
Or in short? Extranormal abilities and situations complicate everything.
That said, Maxima’s (like everyone else’s) humor has limits.
Not to mention a lot of the team simply wouldn’t make the cut to regular military. Sid all on her own wouldn’t have passed the psych eval (assuming it’s a branch that has one), or would have washed out in weeks as a Boot.
Yep. If she’s been offered “civilian contractor”, it would have been a better fit. But she really needs the discipline, even if it does cause occasional hurching into trash cans.
Uhm no calling anyone to attention or saluting here. No one present is in uniform.
Can’t edit my post.
Sydney appears to be half in uniform. Wearing civilian tops with her BDU trousers and boots. (Also a no no)
One can have a relaxed attitude with one Commanding Officer when not in uniform just fine. That doesn’t mean there aren’t limits. The Vice of Command. You’ll know it when you hear it, and ignoring it when you hear it is an Eff-Around-And-Find-Out scenario.
I’m assuming that was “Voice”… which is Max.
The other one is Dabbler.
I was US Army some years back, clinical specialist (sort of EMT+LPN). We enlisted medical people were definitely held to standards for uniforms, saluting, and such. But the doctors were given a lot of slack. I’d seen them wearing civilian belts and shoes with their uniform, ignoring rank, etc. (Not necessarily in every base). But they were so hard to get and so useful, that as long as their lack of military bearing didn’t become contagious, they could get away with a lot.
It was that way with the physicists in Los Alamos, also, in WWII.
I would expect superheroes would get a more careful training of useful super skills and small battle tactics but less focus on “Room – atten-SHUN!” kind of behavior. I think you are not out of line here, troop.
Since they were all off duty (at least everyone but Sydney based on attire alone), isn’t that abuse of power on Max’s part?
It would not be the first time Max has abused her authority to endorse her foibles.
Depends on their structure. In the army you can be ‘off duty’ but technically your a soldier 24/7, so you always have to follow the rules and obey the order of your superiors. One saying I learned at Ft Stewart was the the ‘hay you’ detail. Thats where someone didn’t show up for (most likely) CQ duty, and the sergeant now needs ot find a replacement. This usually involved walking over to the barracks and shouting ‘hay you’ to the first soldier they see and ordering them to get into uniform as they were just picked for CQ duty. So regardless of time, Max will always be Halo’s superior and Halo is obligated to follow her orders, in-uniform or not ‘on-duty’ or not. Unless she decides to quit.
Most of the time I think Max is relatively chill and alright, but at the same time she is also human and Army (or former Army). Here she seams to be having a particularly annoying or bad day, which can spell misery for anyone who sets them off.
However, there was no order given. Max did not call her subordinate(s) to attention or give any perceptible order. She just got pissed that they were being human before she entered, and continued to do so after she entered.
It would take an attorney in the appropriate services to say whether this was a violation of UCMJ. I suspect that this was a violation, but the kind of violation that would never be prosecuted, even in a regular service, because it would lead to erosion of command authority. Thus, the service would not admit it to be a violation, and the colonel would receive a quiet chat with her superiors regarding the advisability of such “discipline” in context.
Sydney being who she is, and the milieu being what it is, nothing will come of this.
So wait. Let’s say you’re a lieutenant in the army and go on leave for vacation with your family. You get to the hotel and there’s a captain there. He could make you his ***** while you’re both on vacation simply because he outranks you at work? Well thank god I wasn’t able to join.
Laps with a skilltree open is a bad idea indeed. Pushups would be just as effective and not a potential security breach.
> Presumably, Sydney is actually learning all that saluting, standing at attention, and marching up and down the square.
God, I hated it so, SO much.
hm, the ppo is missing a glowey thing, refrenced here:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-659-the-greatest-challenge-upgrading/
the PPO’s rapidfire option i believe
sorry <3
Anyone got a list of all the pages where Sydney upgrades?
If Sydney had to do KP duty,along with Dabbler,how would she look wearing something like this…?
https://www.allposters.com/-sp/Willie-Gillis-Package-from-Home-Saturday-Evening-Post-Cover-October-4-1941-Posters_i7553214_.htm
Dabbler is a civilian contractor, so Max can’t require military courtesies from her and can’t do things like order her to run twenty laps. The only disciplinary measures that could be used would be to fire her or, if her contract allows, dock her pay.
Pretty sure she has done laps with the rest of them, so that isn’t how her specific contract works.
I think that the dot that connects the Life Support Orb to the Shield Orb would be the ideal pick. It tries something new, thus potentially learning more about the skill tree, plus a good chance that the orbs somehow combine powers in a manner that negates Sydney’s need to swap orbs.
What we have here is a discipline issue. It wouldn’t have been so bad, if Max had walked in the room alone, but a civilian consultant came with her, and witnessed the event. There is probably something in Dabbler’s contract regarding her suborning subordinates and encouraging inappropriate behavior. I think that some time at the chalkboard, ala Bart Simpson, would do her some good.
Where are the orbs in panels 1 to 6?
2 – 8.
The Skill Tree is flush with the virtual camera.
Imaging a TV or movie where the characters are looking at a map or large TV screen and
we see them through it as if it and the wall was invisible.
I think there are two of those huge grey screens, one in front of them and one behind. The orbs are sitting open in front of them, and you can see the orbs’ light reflected vaguely in the one behind them.
Things are a liiitttlllee bit different from Basic Training to an actual work environment.
I can only speak for my 20 years and they ended 25 years ago, but there are things that have been there since the first caveman told a hunting party to “stand still and listen in, Og–get your hands out of your pockets !! ”
Basic is exactly that, basic, it gets you used to following orders working together and accepting responsibility for your actions through boh the old ‘carrot and stick’ method (with the ‘carrot’ being, do as you’re told and you don’t get the stick) and the usually unnoticed ‘if I accept direction, everything works better’ realization.
Sadly, a very great many people see the ‘boot camp scene’ in ‘full metal jacket’ as what actually happens in Basic. I did mine 45 years ago and that was far out of favour even then. Today, it’s unheard of, but the ‘breaking down then rebuilding’ phase still has to happen, one way or another.
At an operational unit, many things change and change radically, in a Hangar you don’t drop tools and snap to attention every time an Officer walks by because there are so damned many of them (pilots).
On the flight line you keep your head on a swivel and watch for aircraft and moving equipment, not things to salute, saluting is forbidden on the line for that reason (except the one given to a departing pilot when he starts to taxi because he/she might not come back)
I’ve watched army Officers who walked onto an active flightline and tried to enforce what they thought were proper dress and protocol regulations be unceremonially escorted off, twice by the Sqn Commander personally and strongly advised to stay away or be physically restrained.
In a combat arms unit, when in the field, saluting is often followed by the phrase ‘sniper check’ for exactly that reason and is discouraged.
Customs vary from country to country, in the military I served in you never saluted indoors because you took your hat off when you went inside to work, an exception was when you were formally reporting to a senior Officer, and they ‘sat to attention’ to return it since they normally weren’t wearing a hat at their desk.
When reporting because you were on charge, you ‘did the hatless dance’ and your headdress was removed so the Officer hearing the charge wouldn’t have to salute you back.
Officers walking into maintenance shops were announced but people only stopped what they were doing to stand to attention if it was safe to do so.
Boatside isn’t my strong point but I’d assume the same holds true, personal safety and the proper operation of equipment essential to the wellbeing of the Ship trumps a salute every time.
There’s a time and place for everything and while a workspace can be more informal than a parade square out of necessity, you still say ‘Sir/Ma’am’ and offer proper respect to the position and rank of who you’re talking to.
There’s a perfect example here of why repair comes before rank ;)
https://worldofavania.com/page/3#mainAnchor