Grrl Power #916 – Bad faith
I think Henchwench is trying to vie with Lorlara for second place in the crazy face competition. Sydney is obviously unassailable at number 1.
I assume her contract has a section about how you can’t sue her for tricking you into signing a document that explicitly sets you up for a premeditated double-cross.
This page (and the next few) was directly inspired by your comments from when Henchwench first showed up. I like super powers that have a lot of uh, not rules, but like, when you hear about the power, you think, “that’s cool” but then a day later you have those refrigerator logic moments and you come up with like a million weird power stunts for it. Everything about Henchwench is like that. Like what if she was hired by Absorbing Man or Parasite AND Evil Energy Guy (I couldn’t think of an evil Human Torch off the top of my head) Could she just feed herself unlimited power? Or what if the contract she signed said she only got the powers of the supervillain on call? Like it rotated out depending on what day of the week it was. Not sure why you’d do that, but it would certainly make it really hard to jail her if you managed to catch her without getting her fired first.
Seeing as how Henchwench’s powers are contract based, I’m going to say that she’s like, 1/8th devil. Not demon. Devils are the ones into contracts. Dabbler would be the first tell you… actually, the scene would go like this:
Sydney: It’s a demon! But, uh, not like… I didn’t mean that in a judgemental way. I’m not a racist!
Dabbler: Actually he’s a devil.
Sydney: Oh? Is there a big difference?
Dabbler: Oh gods, yeah. Huge difference. Totally… eh, not really.
Sydney: Oh. Uh, well, I’m still sorry if I implied you all look alike.
Dabber: Sydney, I’m a demon, not a snowflake. I’m not going to report you to HR.
Sydney: Right, sorry. You cloven-hooved ass-goblin.
Dabbler: If you’re trying to upset me, you’ll have to do a lot better than that. I do have cloven hooves, and I love ass gobblin’.
Sydney: Gross. Fine, that zebra haired barber guy said you give really average blowjobs.
Dabbler: I’LL SUE YOU FOR SLANDER YOU FUCKING…
Devil: Should I come back?
Aaaand scene.
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Not dragging this out much, are we?
No
ZZZZAx
Read the fine print, or insist on more fine print?
Or make changes in disappearing-reappearing ink.
Or better yet, surreptitiously copy the contract, edit the fine print, sign the new contract, and have them sign it. Like this guy did: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/read-small-print-credit-card-user-sets-his-own-limit-then-sues-bank-closing-account-8753602.html
The punch line is that the bank didn’t read the fine print.
That’s hilarious! But he took it too far in suing for damages when they canceled his card; that crossed the line from “clever haha” to “fraud by deception”. He didn’t tell the bank he’d changed the contract.
Fortunately he and the bank came to a peaceful resolution
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2013/08/14/man-who-outwitted-bank-ends-700k-lawsuit-a26770
Yeah, you have absolutely no idea how corrupt banks actually are. Especially in Russia. One organization recently uncovered a Putin slush fund operated by something like 7 different billionaires, one of whom is the top regulator for the bank you’re defending.
It gets to a point where you need to stop whining about morals vs. fine print and just go in there with molotovs. Recently, the stock market in the U.S. was literally restricted because some top bankers were upset that their buddy’s shorts were getting squeezed. We’re getting very close to molotov time. Globally. Think about that next time you whine about petty fraud against a bank.
Ok……. so what the F happened in the last panel?
She run that rebar up her ass crack or something?
Considering the associated sound effect, I’d say no, not up her ass crack, but rather _through_ her leg and into the pavement. Max is so very done with this.
Max took a lesson from when Dabbler shot off Sciona’s leg. Crippling your opponent tends to shut them down quick.
The whole ‘fighting fair’ thing is for rings, dojos and championship games.
Anything goes in super powered beawls.
Remember- just because someone can survive having limbs removed, doesn’t mean it isn’t incredibly inconveniencing.
If they can survive everything up to and including decapitation- well then, it just means that you have much more visceral methods of negative reinforcement.
I’m reminded of another web comic I read, in which one of the good aligned characters pulled a dirty move in a fight, and the villain complained about it. He countered, “Fair fights are by appointment only.”
One of my favorite come backs is always some variation of “who told you I was a hero?”
“Good, Bad, I’m the gut with the gun”
It’s all fun and games until someone loses a limb.
I’m thinking through her foot, but, yeah.
I was thinking, in through the back of the knee, out through the shin, through the foot top to bottom, into the concrete or asphalt below.
Whups, all the theorizing about Hench Wench only made Dave stronger. Well played!
read the dialogue in the commetary.
spit milk out my nose
good job, sort of
I love how thoroughly they’ve violated the Stringer Bell rule against taking notes on a criminal conspiracy.
TL;DR: Legal, schmegal, Imma hamstringin’ yer ass.
Henchwench’s contract-writing skills seem to suggest she’s a lot smarter than her behavior would lead you to believe. But I suppose when your entire powerset rides or dies based on who you ally yourself with, you learn to get very good at securing your clauses and shoring up your loopholes.
And I agree, her Stretch Face game is strooooong.
If it’s the loophole that I’m guessing it is, then HW isnt as smart as she thinks she is and Maxima just showed the flaw in her legal reasoning. :)
I mean, if they all want to dissolve the LLC and said LLC has no assets (it was formed explicitly for this job) then it’s literally the same if they all quit and leave her as the sole employee. She can’t just “manage” herself a slave LLC no matter how much she may want. Unless it’s some kind of magic contract that just does whatever she says it does without regard to existing law.
My theory on the loophole is she is the non-member manager. But the problem with that, legally, is that the other members would NOT have to get her ratification to fire her then. In which case it explains how she suddenly has no invulnerability against a simple rebar. :)
Getting impaled is not the same thing as being shot: one is blunt force the other piercing
See my response to Rhuen since it’s the same one to you, G:)
We’re basically trying to guess if HW’s invulnerability is like Superman’s or like Wonder Woman’s. I’m guessing the former, you’re guessing the latter.
Well, she already lost teeth while under full effects of JuggerNot’s power, so shoving a pole through her leg (or foot) shouldn’t be that much different
Maxima’s headbutting hits a lot harder than a steel rebar.
Maxima crushes steel like putty, if you’re tough enough for her serious face punches then getting hit with something like a car or rebar wouldn’t hurt. Now the question is if Hench(and presumably Brumalut) is that tough.
Given there toughness maxes out at bullet resistant up to custom elephant rounds and Maxima maxes out far far above a tank in offense I don’t think they’re that tough.
Maxima is holding the rebar, her force plus her kinetic field around things she holds to add structural stability , hence not ripping the side out of a vehicle when lifting by one point on the side, means she should have no problem impaling a foot of some B class enhanced durability.
I honestly don’t think it works that way. IE, the rebar doesn’t suddenly become harder because Maxima is wielding it. Large objects just won’t fall apart from its own mass, sort of like Superboy’s Tactile Telekinesis. It’s sort of like how Superman can lift a building without the building falling apart because the Kryptonian Biomatrix keeps the building together, sort of like Superboy’s Tactile Telekinesis does. It doesnt make the building or whatever they’re using HARDER though, when used against another superpowered being that’s able to shrug off hits some something as hard as brick.
Think back to what Maxima told Sydney about hitting people with the lighthook vs hitting them with some person’s car. The car is not going to do more damage than the lighthook is going to do.
The only way I’d be able to argue otherwise is if Maxima was using the rebar with so much speed that it increases its mass, sort of like Flash’s infinite mass punch. Otherwise the rebar still has the same mass no matter who’s using it. And I don’t think Maxima’s using superspeed to impale her with the rebar from what I’m seeing in the panel.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am currently.
Btw my response was to Rhuen, not to Samuel.
Pander:
It was my impression the zero range telekinesis was enforcing the structural integrity of the object. Not that it matters as my impression of the durability Brut has , has shown he can be bruised by a dense munition designed to crack an elephant’s skull. That rebar Maxima just pulled out of a chunk of Street is very tough. I have to ask if you’ve ever held one of those. They aren’t light material. A man with normal strength could skewer a car door with that. I have little doubt Maxima could skewer Henchwench’s foot with her strength and how strong those rebar are.
Rhuen:
All we’ve seen so far is that Maxima’s ‘zero range TK’ enforces the structural integrity so the object won’t collapse under its own mass, which is why I was making the Superman biomatrix/Superboy TTK comparison. It doesnt make the objects being given additional structural integrity harder. At least that’s not how it was explained in Dabbler’s Science Corner (or how the Kryptonian biomatrix or Superboy’s Tactile telekinesis was described in DC comics).
Your theory could be correct but I don’t think it is, at least not based on what we know so far.
“I have to ask if you’ve ever held one of those. They aren’t light material.”
To be fair, Maxima forgets things have weight sometimes with things a lot heavier than a steel rebar. And Brut (and thus also HW) is a lot more durable than a car door, even if he’s not remotely near Maxima’s power levels
Pander: Maybe she lost her power, next page will tell.
In the meantime however, mentally I have been picturing their strength and durability as somewhere around the same levels as Sabretooth from the X-men comics…and Iron Fist *just to stop that smart ass remark from a random passerby*, he’s better known as Wolverine’s arch-enemy.
But still below even Hiro in this comic, Hiro was made to bleed when whip smacked by a bridge support cable.
Before I say anymore I am going try and look closely at the picture and figure out just which grade of rebar Maxima is holding, because double checking it is a little thinner than I was thinking in the comments. This looks like two to three inches wide, wire mesh rebar.
which apparently depending on the steel has a yield strength of 40,000 PSI or 60,000 PSI.
the grade 60 is more common in reinforcing concrete, so looking at 60,000 PSI to deform it.
So Maxima stabbing the foot means either the bar slipped and possibly left a little scratch and then embedding into the concrete beside her foot, stabbed into her foot but not deeply *still hurt like hell*, bent…likely still scratched her foot, or skewered her foot. the shish kabob sound effect implies the later.
So either she lost power and then got stabbed, or still has the power and was still stabbed.
My main point was as tough as those bars are and how durable Brut and Henchwench seem to be and comparing to characters I know more about who seem to be about the same strength and durability level, (I mean they may be stronger than that, but unfortunately their opponent range as been *no super strength* and *S-class super*, its like seeing a villain right Deadpool, Mr. Fantastic, and Firestar, and hold their own but then fight Thor or Captain Marvel and get their butts kicked. So trying to estimate their strength level somewhere between…can hold their own against supers without super strength and getting beat up by super who can level the city who is also trying to use kid gloves.
in that estimate I figured with the right strength behind holding the bar and not hitting at an easily bent angle that bar should still cause damage to them.
Now I do see the point, if they have durability above their strength class like Luke Cage it makes the visual awkward, but it is still a reinforced steel beam being held by an S-class super, at the very least a breaking the beam while leaving a gash or deep bruise if this were Luke Cage.
Pander:
I don’t think the distinction you’re making is meaningful. There’s two ways the rebar could fail to penetrate when pushed by Maxima – it could break, or bend/deform. Both of these are failures of structural integrity. If Maxima’s force field didn’t impart resistance to deformation, we’d see the things she lifts bend around where she holds them.
Also, Dabbler’s Science Corner explicitly says it fortifies structure.
With enough force straw can pierce concrete. This is Maxima holding that rebar, also remember not invulnerable, high durability. So not proof the power is gone just that Maxima is done playing nice.
My theory could be wrong but I’m betting it isn’t. She could have a ‘wonder woman’ weakness against sharp objects (ie, the reason Wonder Woman wears her bracelets to stop bullets and sword slashes) but I assume that her ‘invulnerability’ is more like Superman than Wonder Woman.
We’ll probably see the actual answer in the next strip or two.
Nah, the reason Wondie deflects with her wrists instead of her chest, is because of jiggle-physics
And her corset isn’t made from a space-baby’s blanky (to protect from slashes)
I’ve seen that joke comic strip about the jiggle reason. :)
And even though I know you’re joking, I’m going to be a killjoy and be all serious about it! :)
It’s inherently flawed since Wonder Woman is NOT invulnerable to bullets, and never has been EXCEPT in Injustice (probably because the creators didnt understand the character’s history and thought it was cool to see a bullet bounce off her cheek).
But in the rest of her history, she’s only invulnerable against blunt attacks, not focused energy and sharp objects like spears and sword (or bullets). Hypollyta explains it to Diana in a few comics about it, in fact. So does Artemis (the amazon, not the goddess) who also trained Diana and was the Amazon’s best fighter after Diana (who was only better because she has god-given divine powers of the Pantheon). Diana has been shot before, and stabbed, and hurt by a variety of other methods as well which would require the purple ray to heal her. It’s just usually really hard to shoot her since she has heightened reflexes and superhuman speed (given to her by Hermes). Not as fast as Flash or Superman or Supergirl, but fast enough to block bullets with her bracelets, even from a machine gun, unless she’s not focused.
is this the current Wonder Woman or something?
I swear every time I turn around I found out DC or Marvel has either ludicrously buffed a character or else they’ve given a previously buffed character some stupid vulnerability or weakness. DC is especially bad with this crap. Wonder Woman already started out with some dumb weaknesses, but then they amped her up, and nerfed again, but then buffed again…so I guess no surprise she’d have some dumb weakness that doesn’t match the rest of her powers.
Current Wonder Woman does have a vulnerability against bullets and other sharp objects. The only Wonder Woman that did not was Wonder Woman in the Injustice storyline. Most likely because the writers had no clue about the character’s history and just thought ‘she’s a female superman in powers but without kryptonite weakness.’ Either that, or at some point Wonder Woman took one of the Superman pills in that storyline, but I read all 5 ‘years’ of Injustice and don’t remember ever reading that.
Originally, Wonder Woman also had the weakness where if she was bound by a man, she’d lose her powers, but that was mainly because the original creator of Wonder Woman had a BDSM fetish. No, seriously, look it up. :) That weakness was removed after silver age ended, but the weakness against sharp objects and bullets remained. Probably because they figured that if it didn’t, then the bracelets would make no sense whatsoever.
It does match her powers though. Hypollyta explains why she can get hurt by a spear but not by a boulder in a few issues, and so does Artemis,, who taught her how to fight (Artemis also taught Supergirl how to fight in New Earth DC).
All of that sounds really stupid. Just make her really tough just not completely invulnerable. DC just loves making these nonsense weaknesses. It’s like saying your fire proof unless there is copper in the flames. Saying they can survive re-entry or have a mountain dropped on them but can be cut with a regular sword or bullet is just dumb.
Most superheroes are really stupid. if you look at them wrong. And all writers are occasionally stupid.
By having super strength, that implies some kind of super toughness, so a defense against normal punches is implied. Wonder Woman’s original design was not to soak penetrating damage, but to avoid it with deflection, and as a Amazon she received her powers from Greek Gods. She deflected a massive number of Nazi attacks in the golden era, including iirc whole grenades and grenade fragments.
You want a DC heroine who soaks damage, then there are dozens to choose from.
“original design” is mostly irrelevant (other than as the base template) as characters change with the times especially going from golden age to the current neo-deconstructionist age. I know the character’s history, hell I know a lot of characters histories and how they’ve evolved over the years, buffs and nerfs. and I know DC has struggled with this as they have a habit of making characters ludicrously powerful but then all too often rather than focusing on story telling create some weakness in their defenses.
Implied toughness, also extends to skin integrity, which means piercing and cutting damage is also resisted against otherwise her own super strength would tear her ligaments and epidermis apart with every pinch point movement, so flex and her skin should rip along those lines.
It is just bad biology is all that is to have her be able to survive massive amounts of heat, electricity, and blunt force that could shatter mountains, but not the edge of a blade being swung by a normal human or a bullet.
Clearly they kept this only because they needed to justify her continued use of her trademark bracelets. Heck during the 1970s they nerfed her down to human levels *in the comics*, but this was quickly reversed after a few years thanks to the popularity of the show.
I have no problem with these things hurting her, but it only makes sense if her overall power level isn’t up there with the likes of Superman, keep her down at B and A class over all power ranking and it makes sense that her defenses only extend so far. But really this is DC comics where you see Superman being thrown back and getting a blood lip from a missile being fired by a robot duck one issue and then three issues later he is fighting in space against an elder god smashing into planets hard enough to crack the continental shelves.
Its like Power Girl who at one time was only invulnerable to manufactured materials but regular un-altered materials could still hurt her like a regular person…despite also having super strength and speed and whatnot.
This is the problem when designing such powerful characters, especially for a company where they will have multiple writers. Some will want this all to be balanced, some will want to use them for power fantasies with no regard to limitations; and others will dislike the character and try to make dumb weaknesses and limitations canon because THEY want to write a “down to earth” detective in tights story but are stuck on an Uber Hero book; so blam, suddenly dumb limitations and excuses so the character has to solve a crime rather than use their super hearing, psychic powers, ability to sense evil, seeing through walls, super speed, ect…to get the job done like they would in so many others.
and sometimes your hands are tied because you want to take the character in one direction or feel they should naturally evolve one way; but due to the chief editor or whomever is in charge you have to abide by certain restrictions, some of which relate to a different character or group being the current money maker so getting the focus so you have to pull back the natural hero/or powerful villain to give the marketing focus the spot light, or a certain trait of the character is so grandfathered in (like Wonder Woman deflecting small objects with her bracelets, or Spider-Man or Bat-man, having to hide their secret identity) that you have to work around the plot and action scene details even if in the current comics or after certain changes for drama or whatever it doesn’t make sense anymore.
to be clear on something, it is my policy that you can like a character but not the comic. Especially with multi-media characters, where you can prefer one version over another and insisting one of those media is superior or has to be taken as the ultimate truth (remembering that you are working with dozens of authors/writers over just a decade and writer in-fighting on which way to go with them…this affects DC and Marvel especially; some characters affected more than others like Superman, Wonder Woman, Hulk, and Venom), hell looking at Marvel over the last decade *movie envy* has altered the comics so much I know people at the comic shop in my town that it has turned off (as the stories and character designs they enjoyed were changed *ruined in their minds*); as the comics actually have the least exposure TODAY of these characters relative to cartoons, movies, and video games.
and these are different adaptations. Some will prefer Poison Ivy from the comics, others the Harley Quinn animated series, or the version from that kids show about DC super hero girls, just like fans of Star Fire from Teen Titans may not (some indication were actually turned away from) the comics version *early 2000s especially*,
even preferences to specific eras of comics or runs when certain writers were at the helm.
As each is its own adaptation, there will be differences.
-which is also why I have to look at comic books not as actual on-going stories but more today as an obligation of their creators to maintain a presence in that market. Because really if you want a (story) comic books like I said change the story whenever a new writer or editor or whatever comes on. The story you were enjoying can suddenly be rendered moot, pointless, suddenly take turns that make no sense with what you were reading; but someone else may like the new direction or feel the new direction aligns better with one of the older runs they enjoyed.
However you specifically as the reader are under no obligation *toxic gatekeeper to insist you are* to love and regard every comic book or whichever is most current or even the original as the absolute version.
To be honest this stuff is why I prefer online comics and manga more than American comic books these days, one author, one focus, and many even have a pre-set beginning, middle, and end to their specific story.
yeah, each one just has to quit to remove their powerset from the LLC
crazy and intelligent are not mutually exclusive. there is a lot of overlap on that venn diagram. so many supervillains are doctors
Actually, I think it would be Sidney explaining to Dabbler the difference between Demons and Devils. Sidney is the one playing D&D back page 3
Wait, Sydney explaining the difference between a demon and a devil… to a demon? Because she’s a gamer, and obviously knows better than an ACTUAL demon?
Sydsplaining.
Honestly I could see her trying to explain the difference too someone then remember Dabbler exists and feel like an ass
Or trying to explain the difference as interpreted/written by the game designer, only to be continually interrupted by a commentary of what they got right, wrong, or just plain perverted. (Note that Dabbler’s opinion on those categories may differ markedly from most people’s!)
Specially if the one she is trying to explain to is not Dabbles, and Dabbles is eating popcorn in a comfy chair (occasionally throwing popcorn), and we see Sydney getting increasingly irritated until she turns angrily and says “Fine, then you explain it if you know better!” except she stops halfway when she sees that it Dabbles doing the Sydney-heckling (as in, heckling like Sydney does) with Dabbles replying “Finally! Thought you’d never ask!” :D
Dabbler: And I get to do it WITH GESTURES…
Thought you might have meant sock puppets :)
“Here, hold this”
“Demon” and “Devil” are English words. Sydney knows English better than Dabbler. Explaining the difference would make LOT of sense just to allow Dabbler to say if something like Devil actually exists (as far as she knows, and she is more likely to know than Sydney, although the council would be even more likely to know than her).
Well, of course.
That’s DC Heroes 3rd edition, apparently.
But Sydney likely has played DnD, too.
Also, have I mentioned that I LOVE scenes where Dabbler loses her cool? Nice side script, DaveB.
The next obvious step is for them to just… quit. Can’t have their powers if they’re no longer part of the company.
Of course, I was also expecting a ‘use government resources to shut down/dissolve/freeze the company’.
There’s probably also some other pretty bad power combos that Henchwench could end up getting, actually. Depends on downsides/drawbacks, and if they exist though. Something like a power that does a tradeoff on x, in exchange for y combined with a power that gives a lot of y; and the interaction instead of just boosting y, it just makes the tradeoff minimum at that point. (So something that made you 2x/3x/etc stronger, but made you 2x/3x/etc slower exact multipliers/dividers controllable, and also a power that made you say 10x stronger by itself ended up being always 10x slower at a minimum. Due to exact wording on how that power works being ‘change from baseline’ rather than a multiplier in and of itself. It sounds like an amazing scenario potential where she ends up trying to figure out bad power combos that seemed to be much better in theory.)
Hrmm… I’m going to guess that while that’s what the contract says and that she signed it the way it shows, her powers don’t regard that part as enforceable. She can’t be both an ‘henchwoman’ of the LLC and a manager (aka, she’s manager of herself), and her powers worked with the rest of the contract that it could support. As soon as they followed the process and fired her, her powers cut her off (effectively working as there not being a manager to allow/disallow her firing) and Max just stabbed her through her now unpowered leg/foot.
I’m really confused about what’s happening in this strip for a number of reasons. Hopefully DaveB will explain.
1) Every member of the LLC members would know who the LLC manager is, one would think. Is Brut just incredibly stupid and signed stuff without ever asking?
With LLCs there are two possibly types of structures – member-managed and manager managed. Most LLCs are member-managed and it’s VERY rare for an LLC to be manager-managed. Also, there’s no such thing as a member AND manager managed LLC. In a manager managed LLC, which this seems to be, the members would have to know who is the manager, even if most of the members are passive members. The LLC members are the ones who appoint the manager in a manager-managed LLC (the manager can be a member or non-member but again, the members would know since they’d be hiring that manager if a non-member, and if a member, they’d obviously also know since one of the members would be the manager). It would be literally written right into the operating agreement.
2) If she’s suggesting that she is a non-member manager, the other members of the LLC would not need her ratification to fire her – they’d just need to fire her. Otherwise the operating agreement would be void to begin with.
3) Are panels 2-8 a flashback? It’s hard to tell because there doesnt seem to be any sort of transition, but the background is suddenly different and the flying girl is not there, then there, then not there again. Also Brut is dressed again. Plus Brut was at the signing – it seems weird if he wouldnt know who the manager is.
4) What the heck happened in the last 3 panels? Did Maxima just stab her with a rebar to show that she’s no longer invulnerable, because Hench Wench’s entire logic about needing ratification is cuckoo looney tunes, since Maxima has probably spent way too much time with Arianna and knows how contract law actually works? Because if so, that does make total sense and I have to commend DaveB again for brilliant storytelling. :)
I was hoping you could explain the legal stuff here. It is a bit out of character for Brut. He seems to be much smarter than the average evil henchman.
Heh, you’re probably asking the wrong person.
I mean, I was an LLC for a while, and I can’t answer any of those questions. Both because it was a few decades ago and because as an LLC of one things were probably a lot simpler than they are for Evil, INC. (Which ought to be called Evil, LLC…)
I formed the LLC when I was working as an independent contractor in order to protect my assets in the unlikely case that I was sued by a client. That never happened, but it seemed the smart thing to do, like carrying health insurance and car insurance and home owners insurance. Because if I wasn’t protected I could lose my car and my home and the contents of my bank accounts if I was successfully sued. I didn’t get any super powers out of it. Not unless you consider filing taxes quarterly instead of yearly to be a super power. Hint: It isn’t, but that’s what I paid an accountant for anyway, so that cost just went up from the fees I was already paying her already. Also paying your own unemployment taxes and some other things that companies pay in for their employees. Also private health insurance, which is very expensive if you have to go that route, but I was able to be signed up under the spouse’s company coverage so that wasn’t an issue for me.
I can, but it just makes very little sense that Brut is so utterly clueless about anything in the operating agreement, or anyone else who was an LLC member did not read it either and say anything.
2) She’s definitely a member since she receives powers from them. If she were just a manager then not only would she be easily fired but she wouldn’t receive their powers; that would make her not a hench but a mercenary. Unless I’m misunderstanding the way her powers work with regards to contracts which is possible.
1/3) My neighbor had a page slipped into her contract after she finished reading it. Illegal, yes, but so is blowing up the street or attacking law enforcement, and hench doesn’t have a problem doing those.
“2) She’s definitely a member since she receives powers from them. ”
No, if she was a member, she wouldn’t be subordinate to them. LLC members are the owners, not the employees.
“If she were just a manager then not only would she be easily fired but she wouldn’t receive their powers”
In an manager-managed LLC, as opposed to a member-managed LLC, the manager can be either a member OR a non-member, depending on who the LLC members choose to be the manager. But yes, she would be easily fired as a non-member manager. She would not be able to have ratification over her own firing.
“Unless I’m misunderstanding the way her powers work with regards to contracts which is possible.”
You are misunderstanding how an LLC works, not how her powers work. Although that’s honestly understandable since hench wench’s relationship of powers to contract seems to be incredibly confusing anyway in how they formed this particular LLC, which for some reason they were calling Evil INC.
“My neighbor had a page slipped into her contract after she finished reading it.”
If it was slipped in afterwards, then she did not agree to it and she is not bound by that addition. Usually in most contracts, they also have a requirement to initial each page btw. You should always make sure of that if you sign any contract – even something as simple as an apartment lease or a will. It’s a way to prevent one side from doing exactly what you mentioned. Also most contracts are page-numbered to prevent what you mentioned as well.
“Illegal, yes, but so is blowing up the street or attacking law enforcement, and hench doesn’t have a problem doing those.”
Yes. But the former would make the contract voidable from the get-go, while the latter doesnt necessarily mean the LLC itself is illegal unless the purpose of the LLC was specifically to commit crimes (ie, an employee committing crimes doesnt necessarily mean that the company she works for is illegal, or even vicariously liable, unless she did it in furtherance of the company or while working FOR the company when committing the crimes). Which in this case it does seem like it is, making the distinction moot. The whole LLC idea is full of problems here unless we know more of the specifics of the LLC operating agreement. :)
I mean I agree with you on a lot of stuff about the contract having major problems, and at the beginning of HW’s introduction I wrote a lot about how Arianna would likely be able to nullify the entire LLC with a few phonecalls because of the illegal nature of the operating agreement and the LLC, which requires state approval by the secretary of state of NY. But HW is definitely not an LLC member – she’d be an LLC non-member in order to have her powers at all, since she needs to work FOR them, not be a partner WITH them, according to her description of her powers and DaveB’s elaboration on it.
Basically, if you draw a salary you’re an employee. This is true even when it’s done in illegal situations: the member will be considered both an owner and an employee, which they legally cannot do, but someone must enforce that law to end the illegal practice. Typically the IRS.
So it’s not that I’m misunderstanding the structure of an LLC; I’m saying that “being illegal” doesn’t make a thing stop happening. Hench’s actions and abilities thus far haven’t proven otherwise. You know, considering Concretia and whatnot. Maybe that will change on the next page, but until then…
Regarding my neighbor apparently they opened all the windows (I didn’t know car dealership windows could open, but ok) and the wind messed up the papers. When she was picking up the papers that fell on her side they were of course apologetic but during that time managed to slip in an extra page. The pages weren’t numbered, obviously, because what they did was their intent all along. Nobody who’s INTENDING to commit a crime is going to intentionally expose themselves, it’s usually little slip-ups that catch the smarter criminals. She had to fight in court for a year and a half to have that contract voided because they covered their tracks quite well. In her case they’d forgotten to get rid of the security tape (despite stalling for quite a long time) which, fortunately for her, showed the guy slipping in an extra page.
It wasn’t a small thing either; they basically doubled the price of her car and ramped up the interest to barely legal levels. Then they gave her the original price/interest. Six months after the fact they brought out the contract, said the previous “low price” was “a mistake,” and hit her with the full amount due immediately. I don’t know enough about car/loan law to know why they waited, but there must’ve been some sort of reason, because afaik she was far from the only person to be hit by this scam. Apparently they’d been taken to court before several times and won.
“So it’s not that I’m misunderstanding the structure of an LLC; I’m saying that “being illegal” doesn’t make a thing stop happening. Hench’s actions and abilities thus far haven’t proven otherwise. You know, considering Concretia and whatnot. Maybe that will change on the next page, but until then…”
Here’s the main difference. You can technically hire someone to do something illegal. Like if a person hires an assassin to kill a target. But when you start getting legal formalities involved, like creating an LLC, that’s when illegality dissolves the employer/employee relationship. Remember, the reason HW has so many powers is HOW she was hired (by an LLC, instead of just by some single person), not that she was hired in general.
I don’t think you’re following my line of reasoning. Law enforcement enforces the law. The courts interpret the law. Corporations, LLC or otherwise, do whatever the hell they want until one of the above tells them to stop. Heck, law enforcement and the courts ALSO do whatever the hell they want until someone who’s above them in rank tells them to stop. Just because something is an imaginary legal construct doesn’t mean another imaginary legal construct can make it stop existing. Someone has to enforce a clash between the two.
Now I get what you are trying to say. Her power doesn’t bow to such systems and therefore the two conflicting terms should cancel eachother out via the power itself. If that were true Hench should not have Concretia’s power because the latter is not a member under the exact same assumption.
btw sorry for asking questions then when you try to answer them, I dispute you. :)
That’s par for the course when two people have differing opinions and have not reconciled those differences. What I don’t like, and what you’ve probably seen me contest before, is irrational fact-denial merely for the sake of “winning.” If something is how it is, even if that means “I don’t know,” then admitting that status quo is more important than having some illusory victory.
At least in my view. I know that view isn’t held by most on the internet considering how many times I’ve been banned simply for enumerating facts. Yes, I pick facts people don’t like sometimes, but reality itself won’t change just because we disagree with it. Someone has to make that change and that simply cannot happen until we understand the actual status quo.
Our contention is on the application of law but I didn’t clearly show this intent. So I have absolutely no problem with you disputing those statements. It just gives me a chance to explain further.
Oh, and now that I re-read it, I also completely failed by saying “she’s definitely a member” but skipped over the employee technicality even though that’s what I was aiming for. So yeah, my bad.
I think you are right about panels 2-8 being a flashback. The mentioned double cross was when she decided not to listen when they told her to stop. She didn’t think far enough ahead that they could actually get in touch with the members and fire her mid-battle. She was trying to justify to herself how she would still be an employee, which doesn’t seem to have been accurate. Just my take on it.
Yeah, totally agree with you on the whole self-justification angle. It just didnt feel obvious from the way there was no transition to the flashback and back to the current fight.
It’ll probably be explained in the next strip or two. This is the sort of storyline which might make more sense when you binge-read it, rather than when you’re reading it one every few days.
I considered making them sepia toned, but that sequence happened days ago at most, if not hours ago. Though, the sepia tone would have been kind of funny still.
Not that it wouldn’t still be funny, but it wouldn’t be the first time you’ve used that joke.
Regarding flying girl, she’s not disappearing, so much as a slight difference in angle on the frame.
Ooops, wrong, that was a flashback. IMHO, the background’s color scheme and lighting should be different in some way in order to signify the difference in time and location.
Pretty clearly, in the flashback, they all signed without reading it. They “know” legally who the LLC manager is, having been duly informed, but none of them have actual knowledge, because they signed the contract without reading it, or really caring.
I think you’ve called out the situation precisely. She’s a non-member manager, and her employment contract says they have to vote her out and she has to agree to it and sign it. However, the last part of the contract is not enforceable in any sense. Yes, no individual officer could fire you. But together, they did, and she’s fired.
For a moment I thought she might have built in a delay (two weeks notice), or, more fun, a noncompete duration where she is technically working for them (and gets to retain the powers) but can’t work for any competitor. Then, oops, her powers don’t work that way for retaining the power when she is not their hench, but the noncompete actually DOES prevent her from taking other employment until the end of the term expires.
First, the “manager” of an LLC is an employee of the LLC, and reports…to the board. Board members are NOT employees, and cannot be added/fired by the manager in any sort of vaguely sane arraignment. Nothing about the title “manager” implies that the manager has any power over board members.
As some have mentioned, the relevant jurisdiction for the contract cannot be the US. Not that this is particularly odd. If I sign a contract with someone in the US, and go overseas, that contract remains in force. It’s just that to enforce the contract, I’m going to be drug before the US courts. Likewise, any contract in, say, Europe will be in force if the parties are in the US, but will be enforced by European courts.
Therefore, any application of US contract law to the LLC contract is, well, problematic at best. In particular, if she is part devil, or this is a devilish power, the stories often hinge on the fact that a meeting of the minds has not occurred, but the contract is enforceable anyway.
But I’m with the psychological limitations folks as to the true nature of her powers. And despite her rational (well, for her) association that she cannot be fired without her own approval, subconsciously, someone pointing at you as yelling, “You’re fired” is likely to have a profound psychological effect. In fact, if she HAS depowered despite what’s written in the contract, I would argue that’s strong evidence that this is a psychological limitation. Making her the most powerful character in the comic, once that’s fixed.
But since Brut’s damage resistance has already been exceeded, the fact that the rebar is effecting her really doesn’t say much about the state of her powers.
My kingdom for preview & edit functions. Sorry guys.
I hope we will never get preview and edit functions. It’s much more fun this way.
I think you missed the part about her getting her powers from those who she works under. If she is in charge, she isn’t working under them. So her contract would have to have her as an employee of the LLC, not it’s manager.
Technically speaking, a non-member manager would be working FOR the LLC members. So that part would actually check out.
The problem is you can’t make a requirement to have yourself ratify your own firing as a non-member manager. That’s something that happens from a vote from the rest of the LLC members and does not require you to sign off on your own firing. Which I think is why Maxima was able to show that the firing did stick. By sticking something through her foot. :)
They need Sidney there so she can point out that Henchwench doesn’t actually work for any suppervillains; she works for an LLC, which is a legal construct that doesn’t have any super powers.
+1
Seems to me HW thinks her powers operate under the Looney Toons method of logic.
You know…. does Henchwench seem like the “bratty little sister” of Deus to anyone else? (maybe a cousin or something, but the stereotype is there) Just how she acts seems really similar
I was thinking vehemence
re: Henchwench. She’s a henchperson, thus is an employee of the LLC. There isn’t a contract in the world that prevents an employee from being fired for gross insubordination. She should loose her powers immediately upon refusing orders, especially from a majority vote of all of her employers.
You keep trying to apply US contract law (or UK contract law, or Mexican, or Brazilian, etc…) to her power, but it’s been demonstrated that her power does not care about legal systems and “legal” enforceability, it only cares about what’s on the paper. (Otherwise she would not have Concretia’s powers) If what’s on the paper says she can do whatever she wants without being fired on the spot, then she can do whatever she wants without being fired on the spot. If she tries to sue the LLC for back wages, she’ll lose, but she keeps the powers until her written contract says she loses them, regardless of what arbitrary and unrelated legal systems may claim.
Fired by WHOM? officers of an LLC have their individual roles and purviews. If she was a non-member manager, then she would have had an employment contract, and a specified role in the LLC. It is not unreasonable for a non-member manager to have a position that is not subject to firing by any particular non-managing officer, but requires a vote of the board. Otherwise, she would have a dozen “bosses”.
It’s not insubordination to refuse to do something that one officer wants, for that officer’s personal benefit (and to keep that officer’s private parts intact). Since that officer was under duress, the order might not have been valid or legal anyway.
how did she get her teeth back?
She did not. They’re not there in the first and last panel and the rest is obviously a flashback
She didn’t. Most of it is a flashback. You can tell because the background is different and Brut suddenly has clothes and a beanie again. I was confused about that at first also, because there wasn’t any real ‘transition’ that we could see to go into the flashback.
A top left corner of saying something like Not long ago, and then one saying Now when it returns might be in order as is customary.
Yes. If that was there, it would have caused a lot less confusion. :)
From this crowd? You are asking a lot :P
What can I say. I’m an optimist. :)
So who is the masked purple haired girl? At first I thought it was that reality hacker in disguise, or maybe an evil sister?
The flyer that took the stasis gun.
Limb her. Sign with the disarmed. Boom. Done.
Nice job, Hench Wench. Maxima doesn’t like doing more damage to people or property than necessary… but you’re making an increasingly good case that your death is necessary. And when Maxima becomes convinced of that, she likes to get it done as quick as possible.
She didn’t, those panels are a flashback.
Just contract lawyering here. The contract’s already been voided, the LLC was made with criminal intent, or has been utilized for criminal intent, and as such is irrelevant. Furthermore, certain members (Concretia), were likely forced to sign/incorporate under duress. Her power’s limitations are literally more in her mind then in reality, I suspect.
I have a sneaking suspicion that DaveB invented HenchWench and wrote this part of the story just to see how tightly he could wind up his readers.
It is working WONDERFULLY!!!
The comic is a bit of a reach for my willing-suspension-of-disbelief.
The comments are FUN!
In her first appearance, he said that HenchWench was a Patreon cameo character, but that the person had only provided the name.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-891-enter-the-wench-not-that-way-pervs/
I want to see Hench Wench get hired by Archon only to have ARIANNA negotiate her contract.
That would be awesome. But I’m betting HW is going to be taking a quick ride off planet by the not-caught alien mercs.
Her powers only work with superVILLAINS!
Dear Hench Wench,
Turns out, you can’t rules-lawyer your way out of a fight with the cops. Enjoy your cell, and also recovery.
So… they can’t fire her? Alright, everyone resign and form a new company.
No one but her needed the company in the first place.
You know hench is kind of stupid.. She can’t hurt max.. But if she keeps pushing it Max will have the justification to go full lethall force and start removing limbs … again. Of coerce with Concreatas powers removing the head may be necessary to subdue her..
Hmm, reading some of the comments, this sounds a lot like how Ari is both working for, and in control of, Archon personnel
Remember how she got Sydney to sign? She was working as both a representative of Archon and as Sydney’s lawyer
Have we maybe seen Flygirl before? Maybe that drow Sci-fright was draining or maybe just another Alari?
That would explain the colouring and her flying
Hints for when you do flashbacks: make the borders wobbly or make a sepia tone overlay… helps a lot with continuity and discerning flashback from canon.
Flashbacks are still canon…
That was actually a plot point in a Justice League book. They were fighting Amazo, a villain who “has all the powers of the Justice League”. So what did the JL do to defeat him?
They disbanded, leaving him powerless, and I think Batman just punched him out or something.
Im pretty sure that didnt happen. Batman beat Amazo by using theJLA members’wesknesses against Amazo (ie, kryptonite,fire, yellow, etc)
DC does some dumb weaknesses, but even that would take the cake.
Power copied, I copied the group, oh wait group is now identified as individuals legally, welp guess I don’t have their powers anymore.
Every version of Amazo I’ve known was a visual copier, looks at you, scans you, copies your powers;
but he also copied their weaknesses.
Now I don’t read or see every version and DC does make some really dumb weaknesses or power loop holes some times; so I won’t say this didn’t happen; as I can unfortunately totally see it happening.
I do remember seeing an Amazo who got taken out by kryptonite because he had copied Superman’s powers.
The Uniform Commercial Code means exactly nothing in this case, for two reasons:
(A) it’s just a set of suggestions. Jurisdiction are free to enact them or not. Some states follow it more closely than others. What matters, then, is what the state (or other political unit) having jurisdiction over this contract says.
(B) we don’t know what state (or other political unit) has jurisdiction over this contract. What are the odds HW put in a clause “This contract is government by the laws of xxxxx” which is a jurisdiction that explicitly allows contracts to do things that are illegal in other jurisdictions?
(C) how likely is it that the contract explicitly states that its purpose is to commit a crime? The only thing close to a purpose term we’ve learned of is that as a result of the contract, HW gains power and why should that be mentioned in the contract? The contract could be for something simple, like general services. She’s obviously competent at drafting contracts, maybe Evil, Inc wants to negotiate warehouse space.
Regarding B) “the laws of Galytn”, obviously.
Regarding C) The LLC contract can be legal even if they intend to do illegal things with it, as long as the purpose is stated vaguely enough: “Acquisition, study and disposal of things of value for a profit.”
Thus, the LLC does not become void until a court of competent jurisdiction interprets that language and says so.
Most jurisdictions either do use the UCC or they use common law where they have not adopted the UCC, but all this is a moot point for this storyline, since the UCC has nothing to do with an employment contract. :)
The UCC doesn’t cover employment contracts (and like you said, they’re basically suggestions that jurisdictions can make laws or not). Like the name suggests, the Universal Commercial Code is about commercial contracts, not employment contracts (or real estate contracts or service contracts for that matter).
PS – actually if a contract is too vague as to be ambiguous, courts can throw that part of the contract out, but I get what you’re saying and the basic gist is correct, since the basic question is ‘can a legal contract use language to hide that they’re going to use it to do illegal actions.’ The thing is enforceability. When they actually commit the illegal action, they won’t have any sort of enforceability under the law, and if a judge or the secretary of state was to come to the conclusion that the entire corporation is just a cover for an illegal enterprise, it can be dissolved (or suspended of all business activities until an actual trial is convened to determine the answer).
Choice-of-laws clauses written by a 1/8th devil might read: “This contract is written under and controlled by the law of the Infernal Plain, and all disputes shall be governed by that law.”
How likely is it that the common law of devils includes enforceability of contracts to commit crimes? Disputes over choice-of-law clauses must be very common there as well.
—
I forgot that UCC doesn’t cover employment contracts – thanks for the reminder!!
It is true that jurisdictions “use the UCC” in the sense that they employ it as a model for legislation, but the UCC itself is not the legislation passed by the legislature and signed into law by the governor, or whatever. It’s always best to check the actual wording of the statute enacted because slight variations in wording … intended or otherwise … can have ramifications. Ramifications that can be exploited by a devilish rules-lawyer.
Brut: “Uh hey… why is this operating agreement needing to have a copy mailed to ‘Beelzebub, Ruler of the Crossroads in the Plains of Eternal Damnation, 666 Brimstone Lane’?”
Hench Wench: “Oh um… that’s just my nickname that I use to describe the court clerk’s office.”
I mis read that and was going to say the contract could be invalidated in the infernal courts as false authority, claiming to be a different higher demon than you are. But re reading, that could still stand up as she says the clerk’s office but not a specific name which would have been giving undo credit dishonoring the courts of hell. It could still be argued she did so anyway as implied by saying a nickname to imply she was referring to a different office.
The thing is, none of these contracts would hold up in a court of law. Just like you legally can’t sign a contract selling you into slavery, you can’t sign a contract that won’t allow you to fire an employee without the consent of said employee.
Now, I hear people saying “well, it doesn’t matter if the contract would hold up in a court of law, because she just have to have it signed”, but, a contract that won’t hold up in a court of law is null and void at the outset. Therefore it wouldn’t count for her power anyways. And the loophole of “well, it would hold up in a devil’s court” ignores that devils *love* technicalities and would gleefully nullify a contract on a technicality such as ruling domain at the time of signing as long as it didn’t affect them.
There is always a severability clause. If one aspect of the contract doesn’t hold up, the contract doesn’t go “poof”… it is generally interpreted so as to make the rest of the contract make sense. (Exact terms, facts, language and jurisdictions rule here.)
I think your imagination (or knowledge of history) is clearly lacking. In fact, people HAVE entered slavery contracts as a way to pay for their voyage to the United States. I’m pretty sure this was done mostly before the revolution.
Which gets to the point folks keep making: what constitutes a valid and enforceable contract depended entirely on the court system which is doing the enforcing. Clearly, this is not a contract that US courts would uphold. So?
There are plenty of organisations that are criminal (or do criminal things on the side), like motorcycle clubs, cartels or governments, that still have binding contracts
Who the fuck came up with that bullshit that criminals can’t have contracts?
And just to point out… this is an alternate reality. Some portions approximate the Earth we know, others do not.
The details of the legal system and corporate law are not exactly spelled out in the comic and to do so would involve a large collection of very thick books. So, how that contract might work in this world is up to a large amount of details not available except through speculation. Just suffice to say it has been working up to this point. Now that the situation has been grounded (via rebar through HW and probably several inches down into the asphalt), we’ll see how it stands come the next scene.
Clearly, the rules of Law in this jurisdiction obey the principles of the “Rule of Cool”, the “Rule of Drama”, the “Rule of Funny”, the “Rule of Scary”, and so on.
I guess Hench has just been Shisk-ka-booted.
Instead of firing her, couldn’t they just dissolve the LLC? Like how the Justice League once beat Amazo by simply disbanding?
She might have to ratify it, but the easier part is just to get all the important (e.g. ‘flying brick’ supers) personnel of the LLC to leave. At-will employment and all that stuff.
You literally can’t refuse resignation papers anyways without very specific language and defined employment periods… and even then.
Meant to be a reply.
Meant to say ‘They could try disbanding the LLC’ but she might need to ratify it.
In which case, the easiest part is just to[…]
I think it was pretty clear what you meant without the additional explanation.
Yes, I thought of that as well, but more because I imagine the dissolution of an LCC might a legal process that requires some sort of government intervention. While it’s possible that Arianna could fast track the process with her connections, a more immediate measure would be for individual members to voluntarily sever ties. Even if not all do, I imagine there would be some advantage to not only cutting off her access to any number of abilities, but also having that be a surprise for her. Like she goes to use an optic blast only for her to suffer eye strain from the wasted effort.