Grrl Power #826 – Pop and lock
When I watch action movies, I always wonder why people bother throwing their opponents. Or I guess I should say, when people get thrown in movies, it doesn’t look like an effective move because it’s one stuntman throwing another, and the guy throwing knows how to throw and the guy being thrown knows how to fall, and it just looks… maybe not gentle, but like no one could possibly be injured or knocked out by it unless they had already recently already suffered a dozen other concussions. Which to be fair, the average thug in any given action show probably has taken a few knocks, but it still bugs me when I see a thug get tossed over the hero’s shoulder and land “correctly” and somehow gets knocked out.
Really, the hero should throw someone, then yank their hair back or kick them in the chin as they go over so the thug lands wrong on their neck. Or the point of the throw is to launch them down an elevator shaft or over a balcony, or to throw them so the middle of their back connects with a jutting mantle piece or the corner of a piano. It would make the thug not getting up believable certainly, but obviously for stunt performers and TV shows under pretty severe time crunches to get scenes wrapped, it’s too much work to show them do that every time, so I get why they don’t show it. It just bugs me when a guy lands flat on his back and doesn’t get up.
Of course, I would also love to see a scene in an actiony type TV show like Buffy or something, where the hero gets into a fight with let’s say 8 thugs, and knocks them all out by punching them, only to learn later that 3 of them died from concussion related trauma.
If I had been thinking about that when I wrote the next page, it would be key point in Jabberwokky’s lesson, but this is actually the final page in Sydney’s training montage this time around. Maybe I’ll revisit it next time I show her sparring.
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Ever see GOLDBERG throw a guy? Throws can be real effective!
I saw Jos LeDuc throw Jerry Lawler onto an announce table. That was something.
Ah, so you saw a carefully choreographed bit of play acting. Good for you!
Protip: Just because it’s choreographed and practiced a lot doesn’t mean it’s not painful on landing. I have stood next to the little guys and felt tiny compared to them. Met RVD looks so so small on stage… he’s twice my muscle mass and punching him would more than likely break my hand…
No. NO. NO.
Actual protip: Choreographed and practiced means that it is intended to look good but not actually be good.
When you swing a folding chair at someone with a serious intent to harm them, you don’t swing it so that the flat side of the chair hits their back after being slowed by the air resistance of that same flat side. And with the person swinging the chair halting the motion as soon at it lands. Looks good, I guess, if you’re an idiot who falls for the kafabe reactions. Doesn’t do much damage in reality, and anyone not faking the impact will laugh off that hit.
No, instead you swing it edge on to that it hits as hard as possible, and you try to swing through the target as hard as possible so that you hit them as hard as possible. When was the last time you saw that happen in “professional” wrestling? (BTW: The “Professional” just means they are being paid, it doesn’t mean it is real…) That would be never, because, shocker, professional wrestling is all fake.
And professional stuntactors never have accidents :vomitrollingeyeballs:
Ever seen Jackie Chan’s medical bill after just one movie? o_O
that was one reason why he liked Jackie Chan the animated series- he could not get hurt during filming.
It can be really helpful when the guy you are throwing assists in the throw.
The reason that the target assists isn’t to make it look better. It’s so that the target can land properly.
If you don’t, it hurts like shit.
I used to do judo, with a small group, and the instructor would often pick me to demonstrate new throws. Trouble was I became so confident in his ability to safely throw me (and me to land correctly) that I relaxed too much. By which means I found a way to prevent a black belt from throwing me, by being too floppy!
:-D
OK, OK, he could have used different techniques, it just meant that he could not demonstrate the throw he wanted to, until I stiffened up a bit. But still useful to know, under the right circumstances.
This is why throwing a drunk to the ground is always so comical when you watch Cops.
Ever seen a real fighter throw a guy?
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
Now the -might- have gotten surprise if she’d used the COMFY CHAIR!
due to unrealistic expectations, the Spanish inquisition has been canceled.
Nobody would expect the cancellation of the Spanish Inquisition…
Oh that’s why! I thought it was because of Covid-19
One of the most effective throws is into a solid object like a wall. Your opponent will hit that with more force and all their weight than any punch or kick you give. It can also be the first step in various locks and take downs for non-lethal force.
Probably THE most effective throw is into the ground, though. Especially cement or asphalt. You can cause absolutely debilitating damage and/or pain with very little effort.
One of the best descriptions I’ve ever run across about it was in the manga series Holyland. He was being forced to face a fighter who uses judo, who tended to smash people into the street.
I did a _little_ Judo when I was younger.
A throw like that is one of the most effective ways of getting an opponent down.
When doing Judo though, you’re hitting a padded mat. Someone who doesn’t know how to fall is going to land heavily if you were fighting someone on say, concrete.
A properly executed throw, you’re going to have them end up landing right on their back, spine first. Ofc not so easy when they don’t want to be thrown, which is why Judo also incorporates ground work – for when you don’t take them out with the throw… that would be your grapples and holds.
which is why one of the first things we learned when practicing throws is how to also brace the other persons fall… even when you are defending yourself, you dont want to face charges for exceeding self defense because you crippled somone by cracking their spine
to me the main purpose of a throw is to make them easier to control with a hold on the ground rather than standing (or to get the hell out of there while they are busy getting back up)
That’s the point: Opponents of Supers are supposed to know how to fall. Otherwise they’d be called victims.
Opponents of supers are typically other supers. Which makes them arrogant and gives them the expectation of being invincible, with no work. They are used to seeing action heroes on TV wiping out hordes of opponents, and figure that their powers will allow them to do that easily. And they do. Against victims. Then they come up against trained supers, and find that their bully boy tactics do not work as well without good training to maximise both their power use and their supporting non power skills.
Now some villains may have the sense to get martial arts training, but as they do not need a licence to become a villain, nor proof of being able to fall, many will skip the hard work and get straight down to the villainy.
As a kid, I actually thought getting thrown didn’t hurt much. I blame professional wrestling and playing Street Fighter II.
Got to try Judo in college. So to add about what you said about judo gyms having mats, getting thrown SUCKS even on a mat. It HURTS. Even the moments leading up to the throw are unpleasant; being held up in the air with your feet off the ground, the sensation of not having stability will make you panic. Knowing you’re about to be thrown and will hit the ground just adds to that terror. And though they teach you to caution the fall by slamming your arms on the mat as youhit the ground, well, it doesn’t ease the fear.
Which is why they should be teaching you how to fall so that you can, hopefully, overcome that fear
The ground is a very solid object. You also have gravity helping you.
Way better than a wall.
And there is a difference between throwing someone to the ground and throwing them at the ground.
“Your opponent will hit that with more force and all their weight than any punch or kick you give”
Obviously this is somewhat less true in a world of superheroes.
“Or the point of the throw is to …”
Dave, SHUSH!!!!!!! Not in public!!!!!!!!!!!! You don’t know who’s listening :[
Now, repeat after me: Rule One: You don’t talk about Fight Things. Rule Two: You don’t…
John Wick did throws and grapples very well. To be fair, they were used as setups for kill shots and not knockouts, or even simple disabling, but still.
When I think of combat throws I think of the Batman Arkham games. Batman can take out a whole squad of mooks by throwing them either against a wall, the ground, or each other.
I’ve been practicing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for three years now, and the thought of falling correctly on anything but a soft mat scares the shit out of me.
My bagua class is done in a wood-floored town hall — we practice our throws with control but after a couple of hours it’s still pretty punishing. But if you know how to throw someone while controlling their fall, you know how to accelerate the throw, control the direction of the throw, and maintain control [so you don’t accidentally kill them and/or are able to break a few other things on the way down/once they’re down]. We can even go close to full-speed, because our emphasis on changing direction will induce a spin that can ease a person onto the floor. Unless their foot gets stuck to the floor.. then you get knee problems #foradifferentpost.
My Kempo school trained in elementary school lunch rooms, polished concrete floors.knuckle push ups, jump rope, throws, all without padding. Three classes a day (for those of us that were advanced and helped with the junior classes) 4 days a week. It was pretty brutal.
Waaaaaaay back in the day when I was young, lean, mean and a Marine getting thrown was part of our hand to hand combat training (along with a lot of dirty fighting). It wasn’t on concrete, thankfully, but soft mats? What is that? We were lucky if it was on sand.
sand has more life in it than concrete that stuff is so dead.
I’ve done it. Even correctly, concrete hurts like shit.
But if you do it correctly, it mostly hurts your hand, and not your spine.
When I was 13 (5′ 4″, 113 lb) I managed to fall down a carpeted stair in such a manner that I hit my forehead against th top of the doorframe and landed in a sitting position on a concrete floor. The family, who were all in the room I landed in, watched me lie there and try to figure out how to breathe again – it took about 5 minutes to get that first breath and about 15 minutes to convince the body to stay upright when trying to stand. Sadly, it also hurt too much to just black out, so I stayed conscious (and terrified) the whole 5 minutes.
Turns out I’d also hit hard enough to crack my tailbone. 52 years later I still have issues with my back… And this is why stuntmen (and women) will NOT consent to being thrown “realistically”!
Also getting thrown to the ground can knock the wind out of you. Used to think that was just a phrase, but turns out you can actually get hit hard enough to feel like you’re suffocating.
You think that’s bad? Try getting a full force punch to the solar plexus. I’ve seen people literally pass out from being unable to draw a breath after that.
Part of the “wind knocked out of you” is due to a temporary shock to the nerves & muscles that controls your diaphragm, which causes a period of mild paralysis. It’s only temporary but if you can’t control your diaphragm then you can’t inhale or exhale. Hence, the term “wind knocked out of you” because you can’t get any air movement (wind) into yourself.
A throw does no damage, whatsoever.
That sudden stop, on the other hand…
Not true at all. Depending on the persons build, not everything is thrown at the same time and can cause damage in the vein of whiplash, hyper-extension, dislocation, etc. small sudden movements are the most common injuries we all get.
A throw is very easily pivoted into a hold of some kind. Or in some types of throws, you could suddenly jerk back the arm you’re still holding and basically use the momentum of the falling owner of the army to break said arm.
The throw does psychological damage. That’s something I picked up from my Judo college class. When you’re up in the air, about to fall- when you feel like you have no solid contact with the ground via your feet or arms- there’s panic or even terror. It was one of the things that made getting thrown an unpleasant experience.
Think about every time you’ve slipped and about to fall. Think about the fear and desperation to rebalance yourself. If you get thrown, that’s what you get even before you hit the ground.
So Sydney knows how to throw, despite her size? I gotta learn how to do that. I’m 4 foot normally, 5 in armour, while Daniel the Human is 5 foot 11/180 cm, 6 foot in work boots. I did try giving him a wedgie once, but I accidentally tore his underwear. He then completely tore them off wrestler style complete with roaring, then chased me around the house with them…
Many martial arts were designed around two purposes. For a smaller person to take out a larger one. Or to fight weapons without having one.
Most throws are just redirecting the force of the opponent to help you toss them around. Smaller people do have a decent advantage. There’s obviously a limit on it, but that limit would probably surprise you. Just don’t expect things like the series Baki where the tiny aiki master tosses around seven foot sumo wrestlers. And yes, that’s the current Baki premise. The Underground styles vs sumo.
When I did (just a little) a bit of Judo, the hardest guy for me to fight was the smallest – he works with gravity, while to throw him, you need to work against it.
In a IRL fight though, It would probably be more efficient to just jump on him, but for throwing, he had the mechanical advantage.
If you jump on an skilled judist (judo person?), you might as well just lie down and save yourself a lot of pain.
And give the Judo practitioner the chance to practice their grappling? You’ll be lucky if they decide to just choke you out (properly, that is; or else we’re talking brain damage from asphyxia). Judo also teaches a lot of arm and leglocks, and a limb broken at the joint is never fun.
My experience with(mostly low level) martial artists is: keep moving fast and keep them on a distance.
Every stationary part of the body can be grappled, thrown, punched and kicked, but if it moves fast enough they can’t build up any throw. I confess this is mostly effective against people against physically weaker people, if you’ve the ability to build up speed and/or shorter people, but nobody expected to win of a trained martial artist in the same weight categorym without training in a fair fight.
As for how you call a Judo person: Judoka.
“keep moving fast and keep them on a distance” … sounds like a car would help in this regard.
While that’s true, the far more important rule is to stay rooted firmly to the ground.
If you’re jumping all over the place, you’re not stable, and it’s very easy to knock you over.
Step 1: do not grab someone by the neck. Grab them by their lower back, just above the butt. You have control from there. The top of the body will follow, don’t worry about it.
Step 2: bend your knees slightly. Do not try to throw by standing on your toes like Sydney does here.
Step 3: press your target’s body against your own (like spooning). Remember to do this after you bended your knees.
Step 4: stretch your legs. If you held onto your target’s back properly, they are now lifted slightly into the air.
Step 4,5: pull slightly on your opponent’s arm, to tip them over your shoulder.
Objection to remark in Step 2: in panel 5, Sydney appears to be raising her right foot preparatory to stepping into the throw (not standing on her toes). Oddly, the pose in panel 8 can only occur if you step into the throw with the LEFT foot…
Also oddly…
Sydney reaches out with her right hand in panel 3. The LEFT arm is folded across her crest in panel 8 (the right arm is behind her). So, can anyone tell me how she converted a right-hand facing grip to an over-the-shoulder left-hand throw without dislocating her right shoulder? Cause I can’t “see” this move…
Not so difficult. Syddles started with her left (panel 3), and kept it that way.
Unfortunately, DaveB drew panel 4 showing Syddles directly in line with Jabbers, which cannot happen in most throws *. Jabbers should have been draped from Syd’s right hip diagonally across to her left shoulder. Panel 5 is correct, Syddles needs to separate Jabbers’ feet from the floor.
And so we go…
* The exception is the infamous Rock Drop, which I DO NOT recommend you try at home: you need an ambo with a spinal unit on standby. And no I will not describe the technique here: anybody who does do this is to be regarded as a dangerous terrorist and reported to whatever “Homeland Security” is applicable in your country. It is one of the easiest methods of killing a person I can think of.
I think Sydney’s doing step 4 in panels 4&5, the “lift opponent” part. Step 2 wasn’t shown, and presumably she bent her knees there.
And yes, the throw seems to have magically switched sides at some point.
“We’ve all seen your audition at the bank”
I can totally see everyone sitting on the same couch where they were watching it live and having ‘movie nights’ that show scenes like her ‘audition’.
I would have been disappointed if Sydney didn’t try to make some kind of an attempt at her infamous tongue-toss maneuver.
Dabbler: “I like the part where she steals Max’s cap.”
Brook: “I like the part where she throws up on Max’s boots.”
Hiro: “I like the part where Max can’t move a cardboard tube.”
Max: “Movie night is cancelled.”
She should have moved the tube and left the orbs in midair.
She has that zero range telekinesis so the tube didn’t shatter for the same reason the ambulance didn’t break in half when being lifted.
Like the time in the early comics where Superman carried two buildings, one in each hand, by a corner of the bottom floor (not the foundation)? By all accounts, those buildings (and ambulance/tube) shouldn’t be durable enough to survive such forces.
Then again, Superman was later revealed to have a biofield that can extend to others, or thinly cover an entire space laboratory. Maybe Maxima and others can give objects around them enhanced durability; so they don’t have to walk on eggshells.
That would also solve some of the more… awkward personal problems supers face, as discussed in the fantastic short story Interviewing Leather*
* text only, mildly NSFW language
Max did not know about the orbs at that stage (although the incident did make her very suspicious, as cardboard tubes do not normally resist the strength of the strongest super in the galaxy).
Cardboard tubes also do not follow along like an adorable lost puppy
“…And cancel Christmas!”
In using throws, the important part is to guide their body down still held in your grip and guide them so that they land on their head with their neck bent. You want to be adding your momentum to theirs and then land with your elbow on their throat afterwards.
If the situational environment allows, use further so that their neck impacts a chair or table edge. You may need to angle a chair so that it is aligned with the direction of movement and does not simply fall over or slide away.
Don’t try this with stunt men, it’s too easy for someone to be hurt.
If you have to do this in a bar in Okinawa, Naval Investigative Services will not be amused after the first time and will find a way to figure out who you are. Even if it’s never your fault, quit going to bars.
I only know a simple throw(grabbing the opponent’s shoulderand arm), but the instructor told me that if I follow it up with ‘following the oponent down, you’ll be in a perfect position to land your knee on his arm, breaking it.’
He was military, so that counted as ‘disabling’
He was very much in favor of ‘take down the first opponent in a messy/painful way’ in order to discourage any other opponents that may be nearby. If you can get an opponent to scream like a scolded pig on his way through a woodchipper, odds are that the others will be too busy running home for clean underwear to bother you.
The point of a throw is to redirect you opponents (possibly overwhelming) force. So instead of punching you, he goes on a little airborne sight seeing expedition. However, if your opponent knows how to fight, he may be able to defeat the throw by shifting his center of gravity. Now you’ve got a foe sitting on the ground in perfect crotch-punching position,.
Use furniture.
Ok, color me confused. What was that comment about left handed punches for? Everything we’ve seen from Sydney has her as right handed. So what was that comment about?
is so that if shes in a position where throwing a punch right handed is a no go (wall in the way etc) she still has an idea of how well offhanding will go
From the perspective of trying to teach someone self defense, handedness is irrelevant, aside from being a bad habit you need to break your student of. Predominately, handedness is about precision motions (such as writing) – it actually has very little to do with how much power an average person can put into a punch or throw, and a person who has only trained themselves to fight with one arm has effectively trained a disability into themselves. What if someone attacks from your non-dominant side, or your dominant side gets disabled during a fight?
Taking this even further, it’s quite possible for your stronger hand, and your stronger arm, to be on opposite sides of your body. Since handedness is more about dexterity, any time you have to do something dextrous with one hand while carrying something heavy in the other (like unlocking a door while carrying a full suitcase), the winning move is to give your dominant hand the dextrous task and let the other arm handle the strength task. If you do this regularly, you’re training your arms to specialize differently.
Can confirm, I’m right-handed but I fight southpaw because my left arm has more strength behind it.
Personally, when unlocking door, I use the hand better matching where the lock is, not the dominant one.
because when you’re fighting for real, you need to be able to use either hand (and both feet)
Only the feet? I was taught hands, feet, knees, elbows, shoulders, and headbutts. (And those things hurt even you, by the way. I saw one bar fight where one guy headbutted his opponent and knocked both his opponent and himself out.)
A headbutt should be called a ‘nosebutt’ instead. Going head to head is really stupid, but head to nose is very effective. Unless your opponent is a veteran fighter a broken nose will almost always end the fight. The pain plus the instantly blood-clogged nasal passages tends to take the fight right out of anyone who hasn’t experienced it before.
The word refers to the part of the body used to make the hit, not the part targeted, so headbutt is correct. Or Zidane.
“You must strike out with every limb, like the octopus who plays the Drums” -the Sphinx, Mystery Men
^ He’s not wrong.
If someone favours a particular weapon (be it firearm, blade, blunt or body part), they’re susceptible to becoming over-reliant on that particular weapon, so by disabling their use of it, you’ve effectively disarmed them.
The brain is the obvious exception.
Not true.
The brain is not an exception, that’s why reflexes are trained, while removing it might prove difficult you can still render it useless by making moving too fast or much for a conscious and well thought reaction, after which the only functional nervous control system that can act are the reflexes, who’re a lot more spread through the body(the spinal marrow is also part of the unconsious control system or however you call that)
you have two hands, why limit yourself to using only one?
What if your right arm is injured?
If you asked a boxer that question, he’d drool for a minute or two, then slap you silly for asking that question.
Can do many things with the left hand, throwing is literally not one of them (and that includes throwing a punch)
Can visualize throwing with the right arm just fine, even while relatively immobile, not so with the left: no amount of visualizing or training will help
Have full range of motion with both arms, just… the ability to throw with the left is not there
Depending on the fighting style, your dominant hand is usually better for precision punches like jabs and hooks, while your off hand is usually better for power punches, like crosses and uppercuts. Your dominant hand will be significantly more dexterous, but in terms of strength and power, the difference between your off arm and hip and your dominant arm and hip will be close to negligible, unless you’re trained in highly polarized power sports, like tennis or arm wrestling.
Kids: do not try to cartwheel out of a throw at home, or to try to stop a fall with arm outstretched (with both your weight and the force of the person throwing you to stop, you can break your wrist).
Learning to fall means learning correct arm and body position on landing. Generally you’re aiming to distribute the impact of a fall aoong a long surface, eg the length of an arm; a forward roll landing is occasionally possible, under specific circumstances (eg thrown off a thing onto a lower thing without someone else continuing to hold onto you) and they used to drill them in my judo lessons as a kid.
Cartwheels not so much. Some of the showier / less ruthlessly practical martial arts styles use them as a means of movement (capoeira; certain animal styles of kung fu), and actually doing one in certain kinds of real fight could even be possible e.g. as a means to retreat and deescalate while demonstrating that you’re reasonably fit and confident to your opponent, but doing them when someone else has a grip on you seems a terrible idea.
Possible, of course, not desirable. If the school bully is picking a status fight in the schoolyard with you and you cartwheel away, the main bonus is that you can look impressive rather than weak while still (maybe) getting out of the fight.
The forward roll is quite common in Parkour.
Training in Western wrestling, we learned how to avoid landing on our backs from a throw, but it’s not advisable when there aren’t rules preventing your opponent from submarining your knees when you land.
Got that right: I screwed up a fall in a college martial arts club, landed on my flat hands, and had to give up martial arts due to two sprained wrists with torn ligaments. Took years before I could punch at all again, and to this day I can’t do a flat handed pushup, though I can do knuckle pushups if I’m careful to line everything up right.
LOL, Sydney’s pain comments read like a combo of Jackie & Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures.
Good on Quetz to not let her tongue be grabbed, even as a joke.
Side not, the Mandible claw is the most unrealistic of all submission holds as if you are too slow, the person being grabbed will bite. Thys leading to damage and possible loss of fingers.
That’s Jabberwocky
I blame being up until 6 a.m. for the hell of it combined with comments already posted on me mixing the hero & parolled Villain.
Quetz? You mean Vahriah? The Bostonian Aztec Space-Princess?
Which is what pissed off so much with the whole ‘The Fiend’ storyline shit going on right now: ignoring what ever Wyatt has over McMahon to force those competitors to let Wyatt get his ‘revenge’ for them beating him years ago, he kept ‘beating’ them by sticking his grubby fingers down their throats!
One of them was the guy who used that as his wrestling gimmick with Mr Socko for narts sake! The other one, was fucking Kane! The Big Red Machine! Undertakers demonic brother! Why didn’t Kane just bite Wyatt’s fucking fingers off and then spit them out into his stupid clown face? o_O
That did not look like a correct landing, if I am understanding that correctly she landed with her whole body weight on her palm with a straight arm… I can tell you from experience that is at best a dislocation if not a broken arm.
I know she has superhuman toughness but even so as a martial artist she would not of landed like that (seriously I got pain flashes just watching it)
She would of wanted to roll out of it and dispers the force from the impact as much as possible
In real life throws are rather dangerous. Fist are only made of flesh and bones. The ground is much harder. It can do real damagde if you fall onto a hard floor or asphalt. Especially if you don’t land properly
I don’t think panel four and five works. Sydney is to short to do that. Also panel 8 faces don’t work that way.
Panel four, Sydney is *BUMP*ing Jabbs up, in panel five she is tippy-toeing and bending forward, pulling Jabbs into the throw
The only face in panel eight, is Sydney’s, and that’s the look of “howdidshenotlandonherback?”
Throws get a lot more effective when groups and/or (melee) weapons are involved. Getting an opponent to the ground while standing puts them at a severe disadvantage in that situation.
Also in a historic setting with weapons and armor involved, ground fighting was not very common. Remaining standing was a lot more important skill with all those stabby tools, iron or steel shoes and hooves around.
Why do I bring that up? Well, many traditional wrestling styles have some years on their shoulders. And if you ever wondered, why getting an opponent down whil remaining standing yourself gives points, here is a good reason for that.
The funniest part of this for me is that from what little is shown of the throw it seems incredibly inefficient and sloppy.Guess Jibberjabber here wasnt resisting at all just so she could show off.
The other reason for throws, beyond what everyone else has pointed out about how dangerous they are in real life, is to give yourself breathing room – they physically relocate an opponent to a position that is not near you, and/or one from which continuing an attack is difficult. A moment to breath, collect yourself, and think can be huge in a conflict – especially if that moment can be spent escaping or finding an actual weapon. For Sydney in particular, they’re hugely beneficial – the weapons that are presumably at her disposal in the orbs are ridiculously potent, and if she can’t use the orbs for some reason, she probably needs to be running, rather than trying to go toe to toe with a super.
Panel 1:
Wall damage from when Maxima punched the Punchometer.
I was expecting to see 2 inch thick bolts holding it to the floor.
Yes! I’m not even a trained martial artist; just watching my kids in class spoiled fight scenes for me forever.
I’ve since written them off as “combat-ballet interlude”, and they annoy me the way the song-and-dance routines in musicals annoy a friend of mine: neither one advances the plot. Well, how the combat ballet *ends* has some meaning, often but not always.
And thanks for the concussion remark! Doing a little research for my own writing, I learned that the duration of unconsciousness after being knocked out is a significant indicator of the severity of the concussion, and that *any* unconsciousness implies at least some brain damage.
There are throws and throws.
Most of what you see in movies are the “safe throws”. Ment to be able to be performed with everyones safety in mind.
But, if you change them a bit, and you land WITH the one you are throwing… on him… over his neck with your elbow… You can probably kill him and just roll over to the next thing.
Or just pull them down instead of over so they land headfirst instead of butfirst.
And, ofcourse, if you actually can trow a 120kg man up to 300km/h with your superstrength… He will probably have exploting inards on impact if he is not a super himself. So… [I’m looking at you, non metahumans being tossed arrownd like Resindent Evil mains]
Speaking as someone who has had five years of martial arts training now, throws:
A: happen faster then you think,
B: are hard to counter when you’re in the middle of being thrown (best counter is before the throw starts)
C: are usually preceded by a hard blow somewhere sensitive intended to “shock” the throwee so that they aren’t in a condition to counter
and D: cause you to land hard when you aren’t expecting it and/or don’t know how to take a fall.
Especially that last point. You know how easy it is for people to injure themselves just by tripping? Now imagine someone is throwing you down hard after having kicked you in the groin or punched you in the nose or chopped you in the throat. That HURTS. Bones could have broken, you’ve certainly had the breath knocked out of you, your head likely smashed into the ground hard when you landed resulting in a concussion at the least…
Throws are not nice.
Whereas knowing how to fall is lovely. Twice I have been saved from serious injury slipping on icy surfaces (once on a flight of stairs, so particularly dangerous).
Yes knowing how to fall is important for a lot of activities. My parents tought me and my sister how to fall when were were young. Usefull when your trying to jump from your dresser to the bed when your parents are at work…. not advisable.
Got dismounted from a spooked horse once, thankfully, I landed half correctly, and then was able to roll away from the horse.
In the last panel it took me a minute before I realized the gray patch on Sidney’s stomach was her knee. For a second I thought she was wearing a shirt with a wicking panel on the stomach, like Nike makes.
Also yeah, Sidney has a lot to learn about throws. If you’re shorter than your opponent you’ll have trouble getting them off the ground on a forward throw without help, much less actually throwing them over your head. Much better to use an offset throw that will land them far away from your or directly under you and disoriented.
Yeah, same here :D
If you are shorter than your opponent, best to attempt a side or hip toss, not an ‘over head’ throw (unless you also bend your knees dragging them down and off-balance)
In the movies they usually let go after a throw. Dont do that. Keep a firm grip on whatever you threw them by, it is yours now. You never let go of the first guy you grab, in fact you twist and pull and bend him until the screams from your new human shield convince his friends, if any, that they really want to find something better to do. SOURCE :nearly a decade as a doorman.
I really do enjoy Jabberwocky’s addition to this. I like her, both as a character and as an addition.
I so want to see more of the phoenix tattoo she has….
For the sake of the tattoo, or for where it happens to be?
yes
Judo Brown belt and BJJ purple belt here.
If you let me throw you on any hard surface, you are going to have a bad time. Not only will I drive you into the ground with all of our speed, I’ll also use BOTH of our weight. Even if you avoid serious damage, you will be in serious pain as well as in a very bad position. The position is the important bit. Most throws end withe tori (The thrower) on top and in a dominant position and uke (the throw-ee) pinned down and ready to receive punches, arm-bars, chokes, and noogies with no way to stop them.
If Sidney had maintained her grip and properly rotated that throw (an o goshi, it appears?), Jabberwocky would not have been able to post out of it like that. Sidney would have landed in a side headlock (kesa gatame) and been able to pin, choke, or punch with impunity.
note: Jabberwocky’s escape on this page is a very bad idea. You never reach for the ground. Trust us, the ground is coming. No need to grab at it. She risked a dislocated elbow or broken wrist. But it looked very cool, and comics should always follow the ‘rule of cool” in fighting. This is the way.
In this case, I don’t think the second part of the throw (the actual flip) was done by Sydney. She’s to small to generate any leverage and actually throw. So I think Jabberwocky flipped over herself here. Note that in an actual throw, the target doesn’t flip head over heels. You flip over your shoulder instead.
The correct way to throw in this situation would have been for Sydney to grab Jabberwocky’s lower back, instead of her neck.
True for humans. But the paradigm changes when you have super human abilities. Just look at how a kitty can free themselves from someone’s grasp, twist around in mid fall and safely land on their paws. Jabberwokki literally gains animal-like powers, so she should easily be able to pull off stunts that would be insanely dangerous for a baseline human with martial arts skills.
awesome Jabberwokky skillset ideas: lemming style, flying squirrel style, spastic kangaroo style…
The middle one is actually quite good …
… squirrel? SQUIRREL! FLYING EVIL SQUIRREL OVERLORD!!!
*starts foaming at the mouth*
Chun li would be proud
She needs to heed the wise words of the great Han and ‘Not get cocky, kid.’ :P
Woooooohieeeeeee!
“Also Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid”
Also》
(EU)SW fan: Emperor Mi¢k€¥! The force does NOT work like THAT‼️
One the plus side, Jabby seems to be integrating fairly well with ARC-SWAT. Constructive outlets and all that.
Be nice to see if Dabbler’s mojo has worked its way out of her system. That bit had played itself out.
When you are smaller than your opponent, the correct grip for that hand during that throw is the lower back (just above the butt). Not the neck.
Good first try though Sydney.
Have done martial arts for 30 years. At least 7 of that was Judo, and another 12 of that had heavy-contact to full-contact sparring.
If you want to know how effective a throw can be – a normal throw, not one specifically aimed at throwing you onto a fire hydrant or the like – try standing on a table and tilt-falling (ie, not falling onto your feet, but falling so that your side or back or — worse — the corner of your shoulder or the like this the ground first) onto a hard surface.
Then try to picture just casually jumping to your feet and continuing to defend yourself before the guy slaps a choke on or puts the boots to you.
This works especially well if you have zero experience with the other thing that throwing training gives you: FALLING training.
The reason for throwing someone is to take them down. Any actual one-on-one fight that lasts beyond the first few punches (rare), will inevitably end up with both participants fighting on the ground. By throwing someone you attempt to get him down while still standing yourself, which does give you numerous advantages.
Simply ask any MMA fighter why at least some martial arts training emphasizing grapples, throws and holds basically is considered mandatory in that competitions.
On the other hand, if you rather want to take fictional encounters as a reference – how exactly was dear Kevin (Vehemence) defeated? *grins*
Is nobody else gonna say that there’s not practical way for her to move from that grip to the next position?
Well, maybe no comfortable way – if she immediately spins 180 into her own elbow/shoulder, I guess it’s possible, but basically she’s trying to pull off a snapmare, and she should be grabbing the opposite side of the neck (which matches up to her “audition,” when she was already back-to-front with her opponent, and reached back with her right hand).
Training is done? Does that mean its time for the obligatory locker room shower scene?
Just don’t attempt a Kung Lao-style throw.
Tongue Fu for the win!
Only if your opponent is either Gene Simmons, or they have a flip-top head :P