Grrl Power #814 – History (Demonology) 101
It may seem Dabbler is laying the blame for all demonic malfeasance at the feet of external sources, but she’s really just giving a bit of history here. Demons can be a rowdy lot at the best of times, but they’ve had long stretches of history where “the best of times” were nowhere to be found.
Demon history class covers these periods with “and then some bad times happened.” Well, it depends on what demon state you live in. Hmm. No, I feel like demons would have provinces instead of states. Provinces or unstable borders controlled by warlords. But like, warlords that are actually into a modicum of governing? Like, the average demon doesn’t really care who’s head is on the pike in front of the provincial capitol building as long as there’s electricity and decent schools. Oh an infrastructure. Demons don’t like their bridges collapsing, but then who does?
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So, reaaaaalllllyyy,,,, the demon hunter is right…..
Not really is like when a racist uses the worst examples of any race but ignores their own. Plenty of evil twisted humans in history to condemn the human race with.
Examples: Hitler, Stalin, Putin, Trump, etc.
Obama, Merkel, Queen Elizabeth…
Found the troll.
Radimon started it, Give just followed suit.
Radimon made a bad joke.
Give made it political on a more serious level.
…Although, mentioning Queen E do imply that that also was a joke.
Still bad jokes, though.
You saying Putin and Trump wasn’t political enough?
Oh right, it’s okay to hate those guys, butt the Almighty Saviour of the Western World is untouchable, keep forgetting that :(
‘it’s okay to hate those guys’
Honestly? Yes. Although I like Nancy Pelosi’s take on it best though.
‘I think the president is a coward… I think he is creul… I think he’s in denial… but I don’t hate anybody.’
‘I always pray for the president. And I still pray for the president. I pray for the president all the time.’
I’ve been warning people how bad Trump is since 2015, when he first declared his candidacy. But… the most evil things he’s been doing since he took office? Were things that Obama was doing as well – only Obama had much better PR (i.e. the mainstream media acting as his PR under the guise of journalism). That includes bombing of civilians, prosecuting whistleblowers, corrupt deals with foreign leaders… check out the BATF’s “Fast and Furious” program to see why Mexico already considered the United States to be less ally and more horribly bullying neighbor…
So yeah, Trump’s awful. But he’s not the one who had Chelsea Manning imprisoned and tortured for revealing the truth about civilian victims of drone strikes. He didn’t seal the reports on CIA torture. Hell… you want to know just how bad Obama REALLY was? Check out the last time the minimum wage was increased (summer of 2009, courtesy of legislation passed under Bush), and how often it was increased in the past. It’s been so long that now people are acting as if it were something shocking and unusual and that will damage the economy, when it used to be practically routine.
(again: Trump IS awful. All those legitimately EVIL things that Obama did? Trump’s doing them too. He’s just too stupid and arrogant to hide it)
People aren’t acting as though increasing the minimum wage is shocking and unusual and will damage the economy. Just Republicans. They no longer qualify as people after becoming the party that supports covering up Presidential crimes and violating their oaths of office on a daily basis.
There’s a world of difference between how people talk about Trump and how he talks about other people.
If you want to hate Obama go ahead. Hate whoever you like really. At least he treated people he disagreed with like human beings, not actual pieces of shit.
Trump is the one president that has received the most shit since forever.
Saying ‘Trump has received the most shit’ is misleading because an enormous amount of that shit is both incited by him and to his benefit. He stirs shit to distract people. He’s like a shit mancer. The whole “but some other people over there also did some bad things!” is a distraction well honed and forged to put people on the defensive and derail discussions about the bad things the sitting president IS actively currently doing. It’s like if someone was kidnapping and assaulting a minor and then said to the arresting officer “Hey, there are some historical figures that did some bad thing!” . . . and then everyone sits around discussing historical figures that did bad things instead of the kidnapper / assaultist. Just to draw a parallel to the comic what’s comment section this is.
Here’s a good thing to read –
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/?no_cover=true
You really think Hitler, Stalin, Putin, and Trump are comparable to Obama, Merkel, and Queen Elizabeth (I’m assuming the Second)?
Objecting to that list of right-wingers and pulling out left-wingers that were despots, promoted hatred and/or had blood on their hands would be making a fair point along the lines of “there’s more than one political road that leads to hell.”
Using ridiculously non-comparable examples like Obama (slightly-left moderate and if anything too bipartisan), Merkel (left-ish head of a centrist coalition government) and QEII (figurehead monarch who has no effective governmental authority) is obvious trolling.
And, yes, it’s okay to hate guys who have political opponents assassinated or jailed on false charges, illegally manipulate elections, appeal to racism and religious bigotry to shore up their support, commit sexual assault and/or statutory rape, or react to a Nazi murdering a woman by running over her with his car during a counter-protest to a Nazi rally by saying there are “fine people on both sides.” I’ll leave it you to sort out which of them did which. If Obama had done those things, I’d despise him, too. But, of course, he didn’t, unless you want to count catching and killing Osama bin Laden as “having a political opponent assassinated,” which would be a truly astounding piece of mental gymnastics.
That was a leaky bold tag on that last paragraph. All things considered, I’m okay with it, though. In person, I’d probably have raised my voice during that last bit, so it’s a fair depiction.
So… by the bolded comment standards, it’s okay to hate Obama?
He had an amateur filmmaker jailed for a video Obama wanted to blame the murder of an American Ambassador on. He subborned perjury before the FISA court to get illegal warrants to spy on a political opponent’s campaign. He backed his VP in extorting a foreign nation into firing a prosecutor investigating the bribery his VP was receiving from that nation’s largest energy company. He supported an IRS head who used the power of the IRS to quash and oppress (and threaten seriously invasive investigations into) private citizens who just wanted to start up grass roots PACs he disagreed with.
He put illegal immigrant kids in cages.
I don’t know that he had anybody assassinated, but his Secretary of State did when she was First Lady.
And all of this is stuff that’s NOT been debunked, and HAS been demonstrated (albeit never prosecuted), while the things you’re accusing Trump of have been repeatedly demonstrated to be false and often manufactured by the very illegal attacks on a political opponent (Obama on behalf of Hillary, or Hillary herself, attacking Trump) through made-up “intelligence” (e.g. the infamous dossier that Hillary bought and paid for as a commissioned work of fiction).
You can always tell what the Left is actually doing wrong; it’s the latest thing they’re accusing a Republican of.
Also, logically? If it’s “okay to hate on [the guys I disagree with],” you have no room to whine when people hate on guys you agree with. You think you’re right and they’re wrong, but they think they’re right and you’re wrong. And even if you think that you’re somehow special and deserve exclusive right to declare who it’s okay to hate, you’re going to have to get used to the idea that in a free society, you don’t have the power to silence your political opponents while freely spewing hatred about them.
And, if such power existed, would you really want it to? I know people tend to assume their side would be the one that is dictating what’s too hateful to spew and who acceptable targets of hate are, but before you start demanding such things be enforced, imagine if people on the list of those to be (would-be) tyrants you loathe had the power you’re demanding for yourself.
Finally, “I think Trump is a scumbag and a loser and insane, but I don’t hate him,” is a crock. It’s trying to polish a phony halo and be holier-than-thou while hurling mud and claiming yours doesn’t stink.
You don’t railroad people and destroy the lives of anybody who supports them that you can get your hands on if you don’t hate them.
Check my response to James Ninelives there. Then check out my accusations; some searching online will confirm that everything I said – the torture, the reports, the bombings of civilians, the crooked deals, etc – are true. Honestly, the most despicable part about Obama was that he pretended to be the good guy. He was the president who gaslit us, while his agencies and subordinates did all manner of horrible things. Much like with Richard Nixon, who was extremely popular when he was in office… until the truth about him came to light.
Also, not all of those accusations about Trump are true (he wasn’t talking about Nazis when he made that quote… and do you really think Trump has the guts to sexually assault a woman? His idea of winning a fight is to have a half dozen security guards attack nonviolent protesters. Trump would never dare molest a woman – he’d be too afraid of getting his butt kicked). I can give you other and MUCH more legitimate charges to make against him. Like his fondness for abusing “eminent domain” laws when he was pretending to be a businessman. Or how, even while avoiding paying for the land he was building on (or paying taxes, or the subcontractors), he STILL kept having to declare bankruptcy because he couldn’t make a profit. Or how he’s been requiring the military to use his hotels as military barracks (AND requiring soldiers to pay for some things out of their own pockets). Or… y’know, pardoning war criminals and corrupt law enforcement types after they’ve been convicted…
*sigh* Really wish people would stop repeating that LIE that Trump approved of violent Nazi protesters. The FULL quote (that the media keeps shortening) is:
“”Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”
The statement of “very fine people” was refering to the peaceful bystanders that day! Just because you happen to share an opinon with a violent criminal doesn’t mean you are equally guilty of that person’s crimes!
You are allowed to hate Trump if you wish – but please hate him for actions he has ACTUALLY done. Don’t lie.
Mao Zedong is the #1 mass murderer to ever exist, how didn’t he make the list alongside Obama? The dude killed more people than all the combatants in WWI and WWII combined – and no, he’s not a right-winger. Communism is a left-wing ideology. #2, Stalin, is also technically a leftist by virtue of operating a communist state. He killed more people than Hitler but not nearly as many as Mao. I say “technically” because Stalin didn’t operate like a communist but he sure demanded that from his underlings. Mao was more of a hard-left communist than Stalin; which is why China didn’t continue Mao’s policy after he died.
All things considered, ya’ll think you can make a bad joke and then get mad when someone makes the same joke with different names. I was gonna make a longer reply but Segev and Archone said everything else that needed to be said. You’re hypocrites and you need to stop.
The “fine people” comment has been thoroughly debunked, so if you’re using it, you are impervious to facts.
Wasn’t comparing anyone, was simply disputing Catelf‘s claim that Give It A Rest made it ‘political on a more serious level’
Re: Segev
That would all be terrible. So it’s a good thing that those things never happened. You are buying into the Trump lies. Obama never ordered wiretapped of Trump’s campaign. You have the timeline of the Hunter Biden/prosecutor firing off by a country mile, and the timeline makes it clear that the prosecutor firing was done to eliminate corruption. And every ally of ours who was involved knew about and supported this action.
Get yourself out of whatever Trumpian or right wing echo chamber you are living in, and the truth will set you free.
They did say “on a more serious level” – implying that the previous joke was indeed also political.
Fun fact: some guy commented on one of my comments on another forum. His comment was to the effect of “you shouldn’t have written this.” Pretty similar to what you said.
I responded with ‘shut the f up’ in somewhat nicer language. The thread now has about 300 replies with random people trolling the other guy.
Why? He picked a side after two people made a similar joke and tried to claim mine was somehow objectionable. The respondents thought that was hilariously hypocritical and so took the time out of their day to make similar jokes at his expense.
I’m not explaining this because I think you did anything wrong, per se. But you’re leaving yourself wide open for people to attack you. And you’re doing it for no good reason.
If in your view two people commit a wrong? It’s best not to pick sides; or even be viewed as picking sides.
Annnd I responded to the wrong person. +1 internets
Troll? If Trump is in the same list as Mao, Stalin and Hitler and queen E invited Trump for tea, what does that say about her?Nope, I’m afraid that Elizabeth is evil.
What did Queen Elizabeth do? Actual, legitimate question. Isn’t she mostly a figurehead? I mean, I know what Obama did. (Be black…and not kill enough Muslims…according to most right-wingers I’ve met.)
Oh please say you’re trolling.
Why? Because you have a hard on for that bitch? And no, not talking about QEII (will let you decide which one was talking about)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgnhDRVZgSM
Guesti, just take a deep breath.
You’ll never be able to prove anything to a religious fanatic – and the followers of one you are, I presume, talking about are so far off the rocker they make Habbardists look sane.
There’s no truth to be found in that discourse, no fulfillment, no honor – only copious amount of rancid shite being dispersed with the help of rapidly rotating fan blades.
…Wlell, I mean, if you’re into that kind of stuff – be my guest, I guess; but otherwise – it’s hardly worth it.
She is! But also all the information that could educate her is classified and she only knows what she does know from illicit information gathering and/or 3rd party manipulation.
Pretty sure Dabbler isn’t saying all Demons are evil.
Pretty sure she’s tiotoeing (or tiphoofing) around that,actually.
Not INNATELY evil, but they have a lot of… influences pulling them in that direction, it seems? Tasty power, A.P.B’s tempting them, peer pressure, biased perceptions of mortals? I imagine a lot of them at least ‘dabble’ in evil…
I would more say that she is claiming that they start as neutral (ish) but have been preconditioned to tend toward evil by out side sources. Of course free will will mean that SOME will buck the system but most will follow the easy path.. (yes that is an allusion)
I think that only applies to those that have made/continue to make such deals.
Mischievous perhaps, but not really “Evil”…
There is a large difference between EEEVIL MUST KILL THEM ALL IN THEIR CRIBS, and “Just kinda mean”.
Like, most CEOs have committed crimes. WE don’t, generally, advocate murdering them all. Most POLICITIANS have committed at least one crime. We don’t generally advocate murdering them all.
When it comes to demons and lawyers, it pretty much comes as a wash as to which is more “Evil”…
Then there there is the whole soul thing.
Do lawyers and politicians have souls is a topic of debate.
Insurance adjusters et al? Not a one.
You would think that demons, who historically offer bad deals involving granting power to mortals, would know better. Unless the demons learned it from being screwed first.
Assuming of course they weren’t just stories made up to excuse bad behavior.
We learned on last page that such deals were the domain of devils, demons “prefer more direct approach to… civilization crushing”.
and that there is a lot off overlap…
In D&D terms devils are Lawful Evil, demons are more Neutral Evil/Chaotic Neutral
Right, that’s why devils are into deals: Being lawful evil, they actually need your permission to screw with you.
And they will stick to the deal, even if it hurts them
But they will also exploit any and every loophole in the wording of the deal to have thier fun and/or screw you over in the process.
And they usually make sure they know the law much more thoroughly than their victims.
And it’s not their fault the idiot victim is blinded by the payout they don’t check the fine details (or the details at all)
Demons are Chaotic Evil.
The Neutral Evil ones are Daemons (or Yugoloths, in their own language, which is often used to prevent exactly this sort of confusion).
What the here is that. Good one. Good freaking one.
i legit don’t get that. is it a reference? this comic needs a god damn bibliography, it’s getting more and more difficult to tell what’s a joke and what’s just bad spelling/grammar
“What the hell is that?” But because they are in hell, hell is here and here is hell, so “what the here is that?”
Panel 7: “Message, M’lord.”
*arrow whizzing, k-thunk*
Message for you, sir!
*collapses with arrow in his back*
Oh Sweet Concord! You will not have died in vain!
LOVE the reference! ^-^
What was Wenger thinking?
.. sending Walcott on that early?
West…. Ham?
Is Krona trying to moderate the undoing of damage done by incautiously undoing Aranea’s damage to Sydney?
GO SYDNEY!!!!!
I wonder if the overall story is ever going to have time to explore what all this exposition describes. Lifetime remaining of the Earth divided by Twice a week … uh carry the 7 … divide by a jillion…
Challenge; Summarise the entire history, morality and current affairs of humanity in one sentence.
Answer; “So’ everything’s hunky dory… ish”
We’re doing better than we used to overall, but still have a long way to go.
And always will that is one of the effects of free will in a non-deterministic universe, oh and if you believe were in a deterministic universe its not really your belief by definition.
If the universe isn’t deterministic, then *the* foundation block of the scientific method is wrong.
I don’t know which would be worse, honestly.
In the scientific sense you may be inpart correct in that the laws of science to not change randomly. They do not predetermin all actions chaos does exist as does choice .
It’s worse than you know; the foundation block of the scientific method is human thought.
Exactly. There is literally no evidence that scientific constants existed before they were measured.
so trees do not make a sound when the fall if no one is there ? sigh…
does every one turn into a B.E.M when you close your eyes too .. there is no evidence that they do not. *camera for this would count as eyes.
You appear to have conflated “there are rules” with “everything is rigidly ordered and therefor predetermined.” You could not be more wrong.
For example, the rules lead us to the conclusion that the heat death of the universe is inevitable, but they say nothing about how many stars will be formed before that distant day becomes the present.
The rules say how things that do happen must operate, but they say nothing about which things will happen. The rules say that an apple will fall from a tree on Earth at an acceleration of 10m/s², but they do not dictate which apple will fall from that tree on any given day.
If the results of an action were truly indeterminate there would not be a universe. All would be chaos.
Therefore, on a level that actually matters to the question of free will, everything is deterministic.
Which means your beliefs are your own, but someone or something taught you that belief.
You’ve made the same error as Illy, confusing the fact that there are rules which actions must follow with a rigid predetermination of all actions. Actions which occur have the rules applied to them, but the rules do not determine which actions take place.
What does determine those actions then? Either they have a cause, or they occur completely at random.
Nope. Your attempt to make this an ‘either, or’ choice will not prevail.
I find the arguments for free will and determinism being compatible to be far more compelling than the arguments for free will and non-determinism being compatible. If your actions are fundamentally controlled by pure random forces, where’s the choice? Where’s the entity that’s presumably making those choices? With determinism, you can at least say that the thing down at the bottom of the stack is *you*, causing events and making choices. With non-determinism, there is no *you*, just a random number generator.
We seem to be discussing different meanings of determinism.
The definition I am using is close to the following
From Britannica
“Determinism, in philosophy, theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes. Determinism is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do. ”
As to the free will vs foreknolge debate the springs fourth, my view is as follows.
If with in any frame of time the actions with in that frame are guided by basic laws but not predetermined as free will is asserted with the boundaries of those laws, once that frame of time (for us that is the NOW) ends then all actions in PRECEDING (before NOW) time are known and from that perspective nothing else CAN happen in that frame of time (The PAST) thus the illusion of predestined events.
If a being is outside of the frame of time and the “NOW” is not relevant then all events in the frame (TIME) are in effect PRECEDING events(The Past) and fore knowledge is past knowledge.
We’re not using different meanings of determinism. It’s just that hardly anyone has thought that definition through to its conclusion, including the people writing the dictionary. What is this third option, between causality and randomness? What does “free will” even mean?
No, it’s just that you’ve come up with a word salad that you think holds some meaning, and you’re wrong.
When you begin your premise with an error, you cannot hope to come to a valid conclusion. “Random” and “controlled” don’t go together like that.
Where’s the choice if some god or cosmic clock maker has laid down a script that all of reality must follow?
There doesn’t need to be a god behind it all for there to be a complete causal chain. Why do you make the choices you do? Do you have reasons? Internal state? Memories and history? Preferences? It all has to originate somewhere, and at the bottom, it’s either dice rolls or fundamental truth.
Nope. You continue to insist that things be either one of the other. But you are wrong.
“Things were really really really bad, then they were better, then they got really bad again, now they’re pretty okay but we have a long way to go still.”
“Things were really really really bad, then they were better, then they got really bad again, now they’re pretty okay but there are signs it’s getting bad again in a different way.”
“People are basically evil trying to be good, so we developed ever-more-convoluted systems to harm (punish) anyone who we considered evil, but somehow *still* have no systems to reward kindness, and anyone rich or influential gets away with whatever they want anyway.”
…Yeah, no wonder the world’s gone to [censored].
“It,s taken us 10,000 years’ but at last we,ve developed the flying comma!“
Sydney was supposed to ask one question and it becomes one run-on sentence…..
Krona has her work cut out for herself.
A run on sentence phrasing a complicated sentence.
Complex thoughts cannot be stated in a short way unless the person asking and the person being asked share the same jargon.
This is aggravating to simple people who think simple thoughts.
Phrasing a complicated question.
Yes they can. Sentences is nothing but communicating ideas and concepts. Extremely complicated concepts can sometimes be communicated with very short messages. Doing so is an art though, and individuals skilled at such things are often quoted.
That obviously doesn’t mean anything can be communicated to anyone in a short concise manner, but long run-on-sentences is just a failing in communication.
In Sydney’s case, her unbound enthusiasm (etc.) basically just led her to comically vomit words at Dabbler. :)
Why? Who gave Krona the job of jailer? She obvously did stuff up de-drugging Sydney, so apart from being a little bossy-boots, why?
Is there perhaps an artistic connection between panel five and Vale?
Could a little interaction between Vale and Dabbler enable Dabbler to take care of the Thothogoth situation without help from Archon (albeit generating consternation at home and upsetting the celestials) perhaps?
So, since I’m relatively new to the comic, I get the Thothogoth reference, but was it ever explained what Thothogoth was, and I just missed it, or what?
Or is that the name of the demon from #176?
It wasn’t explicitly explained, but Cora referred to Thothogoth when she was catching up with Dabbler. Some have speculated that it’s the name of a previous opponent who has sworn vengeance, but that’s not been confirmed.
I like the touch of the blood spurting from the bite marks on Syd’s fingers. Shows how hard she was holding back.
We’re going to need full art of the demonic messenger for…demon hunting research.
Dabbler One-Syllable Cliffhanger.
I’m all up for more of these!
It would be so embarrassing if their prisoner managed to escape during this lecture.
Their prisoner is too interested in the lecture. She WAS on an intelligence gathering mission, after all. This lecture is the mother lode.
That and the fact that the bindings can hold ships in place…
Well, technically, the fact that a cord is strong enough to tow asteroids doesn’t mean you can’t squirm out of it. You just can’t *break* out of it.
Unless it’s adhesive, too. Which is why the pros tie people up with duct tape, not rope.
Technically, you could use a single thread to tow an asteroid if you kept the thrust very, very low.
Space spiders could make great use of their web.
Not necessarily even that. Some materials have great tensile strength but are relatively weak in shear and/or bend; the effectiveness of those bindings will depend on how well the arresting officer knows their knots and/or how easily you can find an edge to saw against.
Have I mentioned lately how much I love this comic? Because I love this comic. Grrl Power is defnitely one of my favorites of all time.
It’s the only webcomic I even read anymore. I used to check on 6 or so weekly… Not anymore.
Grrlpower is starting to feel like my D&D campaign though. We’ve spent the last 6 months of real time only getting through 5 days in game time. Rough.
I keep up on Grrl Power, Sidekick Girl, Questionable Content, XKCD, Yosh!, Schlock Mercenary, Two Kinds, and Artificial Incident.
I read this, QC, Freefall, and Housepets. Actually I read a bunch of stuff, but I tend to just check in on them from time to time and catch on whatever I’ve missed.
add Freefall & order of the stick ;)
Im keeping up with about a dozzen webcomics among the top, This one, Two Kinds, Yosh, Artificial incident, Girl Genious, and more. I use a web service called Feedly to show me which ones have updated.
For me, it’s Grrl Power, League of Super Redundant Heroes, Girl Genius and Kill Six Billion Demons.
If you like D&D, you should check out “YAFGC.net”, just… don’t mention who sent you, the author hates me and will probably accuse you of being me (he does that when someone new starts commenting)
Don’t forget Three Panel Soul. Though it’s a mixed bag, a plot with a lot of unrelated (but funny!) fillers.
Not heard of that one
I generally consider Dominic Deegan and El Goonish Shive measuring sticks for good comics. This is definitely somewhere between the story of the first and the wacky of the second. Hence, I’m here reading.
I guess I am the outlier then, I have over 100 in my main list, and close to 500 comics bookmarked.
Poor Tamatha, still trying to find that ray of light so that she’s not destined to be a ‘bad’ person.
Well, she’s not destined to be a “bad” person. It’s somewhat more of an uphill slog for demons than normal races, but it’s perfectly doable.
The “but” is more applicable to demons as a group; The more people you’re dealing with, the more statistical tendencies matter, and the statistics are unfavorable for demons.
If I follow Dabbler‘s logic thus far, Tamatha is perfectly capable of leading a non-evil life, but the more magic she uses and incorporates into her day-to-day life, the more difficult it will be. This would explain why Dabbler, who relies heavily on tech and ingenuity rather than simply “magic-ing” her way through everything, manages to keep somewhere in Chaotic-Neutral territory…
I believe if you follow Dabbler’s logic, she should be fine as long as she avoids one specific form of magic that the average civilian really doesn’t need.
In the past the military applications have been to great to ignore and it is possible that the culture encouraged overuse. Enough to say that there was a period where there were way to many bad apples and there may still be plenty. But Tamatha would basically have to choose to go down that path with little real incentive.
Astral magic is great for travel and divination.
It’s not giving up mere military applications, it’s giving up a general purpose tool.
But yeah, Dabbler has developed tech replacements for a lot of things.
I mean, it doesn’t seem like Tamatha really needs that kind of magic.
But the exposition dump implies that making deals with higher beings is what corrupted, not just the general magic itself.
The specific problem is when astral beings influence demons. I haven’t seen anything that calls for a complete ban on astral magic.
I really like how optimistic she is.
Sharing of Knowledge vs. Hypnoboobs. Sydney has greater willpower than me.
Getting used to Hypnoboobs is easy.
I’d like the opportunity to try.
>A 4D sphere is a glome.
…
And the Cox–Zucker machine is an algorithm created by David A. Cox and Steven Zucker, which determines if a given set of sections provides a basis (up to torsion) for the Mordell–Weil group of an elliptic surface E → S where S is isomorphic to the projective line.
No jokes here. Just thought it may be interesting.
The first three definitions for glome I got from google were “One of the two prominences at the posterior extremity of the frog of a horse’s foot.”
Then wolfram’s definition was about the 4d sphere.
Ah, mathematicians. Able to do complex math to explain all of 10 dimensional reality, yet unable to do the math why they never get invited to parties in simple 3 dimensional space.
We’re too busy getting invited to 10-dimensional parties.
Yes, but you’re always late.
And then complain about the n-layer dip already being gone.
Dude, that’s trivial.
Nah, we know. It’s trivial.
Cox–Zucker machine….
I bet that’s Dabbler’s all time favorite algorithm.
As a mathematician–nope.
“ Specific spheres[edit]
0-sphere
The pair of points {±R} with the discrete topology for some R > 0. The only sphere that is not path-connected. Has a natural Lie group structure; isomorphic to O(1). Parallelizable.
1-sphere
Also known as the circle. Has a nontrivial fundamental group. Abelian Lie group structure U(1); the circle group. Topologically equivalent to the real projective line, RP1. Parallelizable. SO(2) = U(1).
2-sphere
Also known as the sphere. Complex structure; see Riemann sphere. Equivalent to the complex projective line, CP1. SO(3)/SO(2).
3-sphere
Also known as the glome. Parallelizable, principal U(1)-bundle over the 2-sphere, Lie group structure Sp(1), where also
S
p
(
1
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\mathrm {Sp} (1)\cong \mathrm {SO} (4)/\mathrm {SO} (3)\cong \mathrm {SU} (2)\cong \mathrm {Spin} (3).
4-sphere
Equivalent to the quaternionic projective line, HP1. SO(5)/SO(4).
5-sphere
Principal U(1)-bundle over CP2. SO(6)/SO(5) = SU(3)/SU(2).
6-sphere
Possesses an almost complex structure coming from the set of pure unit octonions. SO(7)/SO(6) = G2/SU(3). The question of whether it has a complex structure is known as the Hopf problem, after Heinz Hopf.[4]
7-sphere
Topological quasigroup structure as the set of unit octonions. Principal Sp(1)-bundle over S4. Parallelizable. SO(8)/SO(7) = SU(4)/SU(3) = Sp(2)/Sp(1) = Spin(7)/G2 = Spin(6)/SU(3). The 7-sphere is of particular interest since it was in this dimension that the first exotic spheres were discovered.
8-sphere
Equivalent to the octonionic projective line OP1.
23-sphere
A highly dense sphere-packing is possible in 24-dimensional space, which is related to the unique qualities of the Leech lattice.”
Accessing more dimensions would make sports more interesting.
Weird copy and paste fail from Wikipedia. ;)
Probably should just cut and paste the link next time :)
I think Charles Schwartz* was a lot more awake than many other “experts” :P
* Schwartz, Charles F. (1984). “A Mordell–Weil Group of Rank 8, and a Subgroup of Finite Index”. Nagoya Mathematical Journal.
So they aren’t inherently evil, but all have potential access to the Dark Side?
Sounds like nearly all races and species
Demonic Essence:
The Multi-dimensional distortion imprint signature quality of demons creates a point of least resistance across the astral dimension bridging to the infernal element of magic which is strengthened (flow through bridge) by the demon’s negative and aggressive mind set.
This in turn creates a noticeable well point in the astral field that draws the attention of astral life forms that for reasons of their own may seek to strengthen the number and intensity of such bridges between the astral and physical planes.
I feel hurt by the cleavage denial.
So I will be honest. It sounds like you just made demons by any other name. Like these Astral planar things are what we generally understand as demons and the “demon” race are just some group of aliens that made infernal pacts with them.
It all varies with the specific series’s world building. Sometimes they’re fallen angels. Sometimes they’re basically just monsters. Sometimes they’re just another intelligent race (usually subject to bad influences). Sometimes you end up with something like corrupted ghosts.
I feel like the Astral Planar creatures are more along the lines of the Cthonic “Great Old Ones” which were steps beyond the “subtle” differences between humans and demons and angels…
Yes of course the world can build how it wishes, use the anesthetic it wishes and name their name their big angry warrior race Klibgons instead of Orcs if it wishes, the set dressing is up to the author after all.
But it boils down to a way for the world to have cool relatable alien “demons” and big evil natural evil monster Demons at the same time.
It’s fine but it’s noticeable to me.
I see where you’re coming from now. Though that could be said about anything with more then one kind of ‘demon’ or ‘god’ or whatever.
We’re talking about a webcomic that’s been going for years. Old concepts are refined and fleshed out. New concepts are introduced. This happens as much in the writer’s vision as the end product.
Dabbler didn’t say the other guys were inherently evil either. Just that the contracts had a bad influence on them.
What is an A.P.B. ?
Panel six: Astral Planar Beings
It was also the name of a great (shortlived) TV show, about an Elon Musk-type genius who wanted to help the cops by giving them hi-tech gadgets to catch the bad guys :D
A.P.B = Astral plane being.
Maybe I was the only one confused but I was thinking “what All Point Bulletins have to do with this story”?
Not just you, butt ah looked back at panel six :D
Heh heh, anyone else get a giggle out of the Arsenal joke?
Personally, shoulda gone with Spurs, then people wouldn’t know if you were talking basketball or football :P
Referencing an episode of “The IT Crowd”, I believe (“Are We Not Men”, IIRC).
Ah, ‘…ish’, is there any slippery slope you can’t coax sentients onto? Especially when demons gloss over just HOW bad it was in their history classes.
There’s always going to be a ‘it couldn’t have been as bad as that/but -we’ll- do it the RIGHT way’ group in any demo(n)graphic.
Yes of course the world can build how it wishes, use the anesthetic it wishes and name their name their big angry warrior race Klibgons instead of Orcs if it wishes, the set dressing is up to the author after all.
But it boils down to a way for the world to have cool relatable alien “demons” and big evil natural evil monster Demons at the same time.
It’s fine but it’s noticeable to me.
i get the feeling that just because it’s banned doesn’t mean it’s no longer affecting them. it’s sort of like stopping smoking or strong pain killers.. the after affect can linger for a long time after the practice is done.
So.. the Warp corrupts… and the more corrupt the more it effects the person corrupted..
Welcome to Event Horizon.. or 40k sans Geller Fields.. but we all should have know that already.
They had a lot of fun with Sans Geller Fields in this campaign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej7ZebsCFZk&list=PLvXz4ii9fJ82n17FZn1v5AJa_kyGFur3g
(to the tune of the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel’s “Messiah”)
EEEEX-po-si-tion!
EEEEX-po-si-tion!
Exposition! Exposition! Ex-poooOOO-si-tion!
Well done, I’m hearing the song now.
Dang. That actually works.
Oh, Dave Barak our Chief Explainer
(Explainer)
And he’ll explain for-ever and ever
(forever)
And please explain for-ever and ever
(forever)
SO MANY FACTS
AND SO LITTLE TIME
EXPOSITION
EXPOSITION
EXPOSITION
EXPOSITION
EX POOOOOOOOOOOOO
SIIIIIIIIII TIOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!
Editing note: Last panel on the top row, Sydney asks, “Must you…?” to which Dabbler replies, “You know I do.”
That exchange makes sense if Sydney asked, “Do you HAVE to…?” but not as written. I suggest either changing Sydney’s line to fit, or changing Dabbler’s to “You KNOW I must.”
I think it flows better if you change Sydney’s. “Must you…?” is a construction I feel flows less naturally than “do you have to…?” from Sydney’s speech pattern. Also, “You know I do” is a better banter line than “You know I must.”
You have a post above which is too deeply nested for me to reply to. In it you make a lot of wild claims and I’d like to see some evidence for them because I think they’re standard alt-right bullshit.
You asserted that:
“[Obama] had an amateur filmmaker jailed for a video Obama wanted to blame the murder of an American Ambassador on. He subborned perjury before the FISA court to get illegal warrants to spy on a political opponent’s campaign. He backed his VP in extorting a foreign nation into firing a prosecutor investigating the bribery his VP was receiving from that nation’s largest energy company. He supported an IRS head who used the power of the IRS to quash and oppress (and threaten seriously invasive investigations into) private citizens who just wanted to start up grass roots PACs he disagreed with.”
and
“[Obama] put illegal immigrant kids in cages.”
and
“I don’t know that [Obama] had anybody assassinated, but his Secretary of State did when she was First Lady.”
Citations or admit that this is crap.
Dude, if you have to fact check that first one, then there is no helping you. Or the BS FISA court filing. Or Biden’s blackmailing of Urkaine. Or the kids in cages bit.
Seriously.
I have to fact check it in large part because his accusations aren’t even grammatically coherent, meaning that I can’t be sure what the accusation is.
The first one: Obama wanted to blame the murder of an American Ambassador on a video? I think he’s trying to say that Obama wanted to blame the filmmaker, but that doesn’t make much sense either. I can’t even parse this into one Obama-relevant event; I think he’s conflating two different things, so I want him to tell me what he means instead of making me guess.
Rolling with the “grammatically incoherent” train, I have no idea what “subborned perjury” means. Is the accusation that Obama committed perjury, that he suborned the court, or what? Which political opponent was Obama supposedly spying on? Trump made a bullshit and thoroughly debunked accusation that Obama was spying on Trump’s campaign, but that was bullshit and thoroughly debunked.
As to “Biden blackmailing Ukraine”…are you talking about this thoroughly debunked nonsense?: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/dec/10/facebook-posts/social-posts-falsely-connect-trumps-impeachment-bi/
See, I’m happy to discuss this with you. I’m even happy to change my mind if you show me actual, truthful evidence from a reputable source. The problem is when right-wing trolls go through, make incoherent claims, and then don’t source them. At least let me know what I’m supposed to be debunking!
Actually I find very hard to believe Obama OR Trump put any kids in cages. I mean, they have people for that, don’t they?
President of US is not dictator. Their powers are limited. I actually believe Obama tried to stop at least some of those and just failed. On the other hand, his choices of “friends” seems quite suspicious …
Give Dabbler a break, English is her 234th language…
A: Loving the IT Crowd reference…because IT Crowd and because I feel it in my bones as an Arsenal supporter.
B: This explanation is both incredibly fascinating and slightly brain fuzzing. Not gonna lie, I had to read this page a few times, skim the comments, and then read it again to get to a place where I felt like I understood what was being communicated.
Ah, so Dabbler’s explanation WAS effective! And she didn’t even have to crank up the sexiness to confuse!
Came specifically today to applaud the excellent IT Crowd reference as a perfect counterpart to says’ing to Mabel.
The one thing worse than bad demons… Demon Bureaucrats!!!
Ah, demons make a deal with elder gods and it backfires, take as old as time right here.
*tale
“As old as time”? Isn’t it actually even older?
I’ll admit it took me longer than expected to understand “what the here is that?”.
Maybe my eyesight is going but did he say “What the here is that?”
Yes!
It is a heck of an exclamation to make though.
When the page was loading I thought the ‘NRRRG’ was coming out of Aranea ( along with the candy )
Just noticed a detail – someone is gonna need some first aid and at least 4 band-aids if not a few dozen stitches or some crazy glue.
Apparently demons are fans of Brockian Ultra Cricket.
(Yeah, I know Arsenal is a soccer/association football team, but we have no idea what sport ‘Afsenal’ play. I’m guessing its BUC just because it’s in my… puts on the Ray-Bans of Suspended Disbelief +10/+20 for Implausible Forensics DNA.)
so where does the Fel ship fall in this diagram?
I’m guessing somewhere near the border of “Mechanical” and “Infernal”