Grrl Power #812 – Specism
I didn’t plan on doing a foot shot of both my digitigrade characters in the same panel, but if you’re super into pictures like that which also happen to have a tightly bound woman in the background… I guess you’re welcome. If you’re thinking Aranea looks a few arms short, they’re wrapped up behind her.
Tamatha is obviously concerned about her genealogy. It’s tough in our society to find positive examples of demons in our media. She’s living in a state of eroding denial about her nature.
Aranea has gone in a more proactive direction. In her defense, there are some demons who are real jerks. And by jerks I mean supermurder psychopaths. It would be racist to suggest it’s because they’re demons, but some of them aren’t well socialized. Okay, they’re well socialized for certain segments of demon society, which trends towards… macho most of the time. Demons are largely more civilized these days, but there are some that cling to the old ways. Still, Aranea crossed a line nabbing Tamatha.
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That is a mighty fine pinata opener that Dabs has there. Fortunately for Captain Butt-Rope Pixel seems to want to avoid any human rights issues with her interrogation.
To be fair the amount of bad that has to happen for them to survive is excessively high. Vampires still need blood. Some succubus types consume souls instead. Lycanthropy is often accidentally spread via bites (and sometimes intentionally) and more things that we probably haven’t seen. Are these things inherently evil because they need to exist via that excessively limited route? That’s the can of worms.
If any of those things are done without true consent (mind control/brainwashing/hypnosis doesnt count), then its absolutely a bad thing. If those species dont work to prevent said events from occurring, yes they are evil.
This is like asking if 9/11 was really an evil thing to do, since Jihad is a natural result of some religions.
That’s obviously not how that works, otherwise Dabbler wouldn’t need the bat. She could just mind control the demon hunter into telling everything she knows.
IRL hypnosis can’t make a person do something that they’re not already inclined to do; the subject must decide, consciously or subconsciously, to play along with the hypnotist. The worst that can happen is the subject erroneously believes that they have no choice but to play along.
As for brainwashing, it involves breaking down a person’s sense of self and building a new one in its place. It’s been experienced by anyone who has been through basic training for any of the world’s militaries.
Finally, yeah; Some religions call jihad “crusade”. But you know, they whose religion is without atrocity may cast the first stone, and all that.
“obviously”
Or maybe dabbler doesn’t feel like being gentle. Or maybe the demon hunter has resistances. We’ve seen what dabbler can do if she wants (jabberwocky). She’s got full mind control powers at her disposal, dont let her friendly exterior fool you.
Jabbs was an accident, it was supposed to wear off, and Maxi won’t allow Dabbles to find out what went wrong, why, and how to fix it
The point being, she is capable of doing it, but she is choosing not to.
There’s also the question of where the border lies between ‘mind control’ and ‘psychological tricks’. Dabbler may have no intention whatsoever of actually using her grandmother’s antique toasting iron to maim Aranea if she fails to answer, but by having it visible while asking questions in an aggressive manner she allows the subject’s imagination to draw the assumption and try to avoid getting spiked. Some might argue that such exploitation of a predictable response counts as ‘control’, even if it’s completely indirect.
Hamburgers are evil because they don’t give true consent. Welcome to the can of worms.
Those cattle wouldn’t exist if we didn’t eat beef. In fact not even the species would exist. We breed them over thousands of years from a wild breed. Their purpose in life is to be eaten.
you are what you eat. cows eat vegetation, therefore cows are vegetation. therefore I’m a vegan if I eat beef.
:D
Yes. You’re a ‘Vegetarian, once removed.’ :) lol
And from the point of view of most cows, it would be obvious that humans are evil and need to be destroyed. Most humans dont *care*, but the fact remains.
Dabbler may not be evil in her own society, but in human society it is 100% reasonable to treat her as one of the biggest threats to humanity.
Plus because of the Veil, there’s almost no possibility that these hunters would ever see examples of monsters,vampires,werewolves,etc being good people. They would naturally see primarily their actual natural habits, which to a human perspective tend to be rather destructive and/or dangerous to humanity in general, since humans ARE reduced to prey, or at least ‘subject matter’ (for scientific purposes, best case scenario) for many of them (vampires, werewolves, succubi, sometimes aliens). Humans tend to not be used to being on the receiving end of that, and when they are on the receiving end, historically, it’s because the people doing the experimenting or hunting are evil and/or incredibly immoral.
The who’s who doesn’t include captain butt rope. :(
She hasn’t been formally identified, we know her name simply because DaveB mentioned that she was a Patreon add-on
Daniel here. I think you’ll find that particular pinata-punisher is from an Anime I can’t remember the name of right now. Basically, the 2 main characters are an Human boy and a Angel girl, he keeps accidentally setting off the girl in various ways (can’t remember right now tho) and she responds by clobbering him with that spiked baseball bat. Thing is, he has NOT been granted Anime indestructiblity, so it kills him. No more head levels of death. However she uses her powers to repair & resurrect him each time.
Haven’t actually seen it yet, need the name, but I don’t think Screwball wants me to get any ideas off it…
Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-chan. And the club’s name is Excalibolg.
Excalibolg!
Wait… wasn’t Excalibolg in Deus’ collection?
Maybe Deus’ collection is part of Dabbler’s “hammer space”? Or rather it’s like the called weapon feature in some D&D versions, where you have a weapon bound to you and no matter where it is you can call it instantly to your hand.
Exactly what I was thinking. Does this mean Dabbler is bludgeoning angel dokuro-chan?
Yep. There it is:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-408-oranges-golds-and-purples/
Wrong shape.
Wrong shape for what? The kinky dildo hanging on SmugD’s wall? Or that Excalibolg thingy?
Way back when, it was identified as being Excalibolg (follow the links from page 408)
No, she used her powers of persuasion to get this one off one of angel types.
You know this, how!?
That was a rather…….long pause Dabbler. It sure didn’t help your case.
Well obviously there are more then 1 species of demons too, right?
Some are probably more rude then others.
Like the Malumi. :)
Given the wide range of definitions of rude, some likely excel in some areas more than others.
Yeah, this is gonna be good.
We’re about to see an old school bigotry thing at work.
We condemn it but, trouble is, there’s a critical mass of sophonts (from out of town) who don’t.
Like my old butcher, an Asian who was quite dark skinned, but hated Black people and threw the N word around like a punctuation mark.
Kudos to Dave to approaching an issue of our times in this non-obvious manner. Sneaky!
Depends, really. It might be racist to suggest that wolfs or bears eat humans as a matter of course, but it also happens to be true. Which is of course why humans have done their best to eradicate wolfs wherever their paths intersected with them.
It might entirely be true that some demons are perfectly reasonable folks, but if the ten percent remaining tend towards genocide of the human race, then Aranea has a point to be worried.
CAN eat. We aren’t their preferred prey.
We were after they tasted us.
That is also incorrect, they will avoid us if they can.
Now that we have developed tools so even a child or teen can kill them.
In ancient times, we were food. And in medieval times, we were still food.
Your unrecoverable error is asserting that current conditions have always applied, which (as a corollary) asserts that technological advances have not affected the way humans are perceived by animals.
Wrong on both counts.
We are/were only food if we present/ed the opportunity to them. Wolves are opportunists. If they see a prey animal alone, injured, or sick, they are more likely to attack. They don’t want to spend too much energy to find a meal. You are right that technology has increased our threat level to them, but they don’t know the difference between a rifle and a walking stick. They just see it as a weapon that can increase our reach and therefore make us more of a threat.
Munchkin is wrong about the reason for eradication. There was more of a concern that wolves were preying on livestock than that they were going after humans, which was cause for the near extinction of the species.
: eyeroll : ↑this!↑
Honestly, only because we’re usually more trouble than we’re worth as food and we’re actually now considerably tougher to catch and eat. Wolves mostly stopped seeing humans as prey because both humans and wolves engage in pack mentality and persistence methods when hunting (wolves being the only animals in the animal kingdom even able to keep up with humans in persistence predation), and both discovered it was more beneficial for catching other larger prey if they were in groups. Wolves pretty much self-domesticated themselves before humans ever tried to do so.
But back when we were living in trees, ancient humans were definitely preferred prey of lots of animals – mainly cats, birds, and snakes, but also sometimes wolves and bears.
—
Wow, I had something significant to say about something that wasn’t law :)
We may also have had a evolutionary effect on them as wolves who DON’T avoid humans like the plague tend to end up dead and unable to pass on their genes. In fact fear of humans turned into a survival trait. How many species got wiped out because they had no fear of humans? The Dodo the Great Auk and on and on. Back before we had weapons better than pointy sticks humans were easy prey when seperated or young. Many large predators existed in our past like Dire Wolves and Saber Toothed Cats. There were even birds big enough to prey on us. When our weapons improved so did our life expectancy. Today a child can carry a deadly weapon so predators have learned to avoid us or gone extinct. We kill literally tons of sharks yet if one shark bites a human by mistake we get mad. There are still bounties on wolves despite the fact they rarely come near humans or their animals. When was the last time you heard of a credible story of a human killed and eaten by a wild animal? You are more likely to get bitten by a human than an animal.
Killed… is not rare.
Eaten… is more rare. We don’t let them keep their kill, and we hunt them down and euthanize them.
* * *
Some Canadians were killed by a flying bear a couple of days ago. Long story. Well, short story.
Car 1 hits bear. Bear flies. Bear hits Car 2. Two occupants dead. Bear dead.
See: short story.
It’s a huge stretch to say the bear killed the people in Car 2. The driver of Car 1 killed the people in Car 2 by hitting the bear (not intentionally, presumably). By the time the bear hit Car 2, it was an inanimate object, with no more agency in the subsequent impact than a wheel that came of the axle or a port-a-john that fell off a semi (which would be a particularly embarrassing way to get killed).
Unless the bear and the occupants of Car 2 all survived the impact, and then the understandably ticked-off bear mauled the occupants of Car 2 to death, of course. I’m assuming that’s not how it went down, though.
More than one jogger has been killed by mountain lions in the US in recent memory. I don’t think they got to eat them though, and I’m pretty sure every mountain lion in the area was subsequently hunted down and killed.
“And their animals”? Are you NUTS? Have you looked at all into the fights surrounding the reintroduction of wolves to the American NorthWest? Domesticated animals (especially sheep) are not just the prey of wolves in fairy tales. They check all the boxes as ideal prey to wolves.
Your knowledge about animals is woefully inadequate. Human, kill wolves even if they never kill farm animals, they prefer wild prey.
So that’s what all the dead sheep are about then? Read what is actually going on.
Of course humans eliminate threats to their property. Heck, ants guard aphids. So what?
Far more wolves are killed by humans than sheep killed by wolves. They still have bounties on them in Alaska. The wolves in Yellowstone actually have a big positive effect on both the animals and plants. Our herd animals are actually invasive species.
Dude, outside of Africa, WE are the invasive species. Sucks to be in our way.
I don’t doubt that your are correct about humans killing wolves more than wolves kill sheep. Now, restrict your data to places where sheep are actually around. The number flips. Admittedly, not by a lot. Humans don’t mess around. That sheep is not just a food source, it is money. Those ranchers cannot afford to lose very many, and so they do all kinds of things to protect them.
Of course, wolves cannot read signs, which is why the introduction of wolves anywhere is going to result in them preying on whatever herds they find. Since sheep are easy prey for wolves, they naturally go back. Which is why they get hunted down so aggressively.
Grizzly bears, very hungry or elderly cougars, and occasionally really big coyote packs are the usual suspects in animal attacks in my region. Cougars tend to be the most likely. Out of the apex predators in the region they’re the least predictable and farthest ranging while solitary; but a lot of farmers will leave carcasses of sick livestock out to get taken care of- and that can inflate predator numbers and cause problems with certain populations going up rapidly. There’s at least one ‘stupid hiker/outdoorsperson story a year, and a couple years in-between reports of kids being attacked inside small towns or outer subdivisions of cities as far as animals go. Generally most people don’t know how much different the urban Vs rural experience in western Canada is though.
“You are more likely to get bitten by a human than an animal.”
I think you went a bit too far there :)
I’ve been bitten by dogs three times, and cats twice. And once by an ornery parakeet.
Never been bitten by another person though. Not that I’ve ever given another person reason to take a chomp out of me. But I’m just saying, at least anecdotally…..
Animal Bites: 6
Human Bites: 0
:)
So a sample of 1? Hell as a child fighting with siblings we often bit each other. I only got bitten two times by dogs and one was breaking up a fight between german shepards. Ask a cop sometime about humans biting. I was talking about criminal statistics not personal experiance. Dogs and wolves will give you lots of warnings before they bite. If you pay attention you can avoid that.
I did say ‘anecdotally.’
But if you want actual statistics, dogs biting humans is FAR more prevalent than humans biting humans.
Not to mention the severity of the injury from the bites. So lets do more than a sample of 1. Lets do…. all of 2016 in the United States.
There are approximately 90 million dogs currently living in the United states.
In 2016 alone, the number of dog bites, just in the United States, came out to 4.5 MILLION. The vast majority were minor and did not require significant medical attention.
Of the ones that were not minor, 370,232 required hospitalization.
Of that 370,232 that required hospitalization, 91,244 required major reconstructive surgery, were life threatening, or resulted in the human almost dying.
Of that 91,244, 35 humans DID die as a result of dog bites.
NOW…. Lets compare to humans biting humans, shall we?
The number is literally so low and exceedingly minor that police and hospitals do not even keep records for the minor examples. They only keep records of stuff like when a suspect tries to bite the police officer (mainly because it’s assault on an officer, another charge that can be used, plus there’s a risk of infection), or someone has bitten someone else in some seriously damaging way, or someone trying to escape from someone else who has grabbed them.
Of the ones that required hospitalization? 1,131. It’s rare enough that forensic analysis of the bite marks tend to be almost as good as fingerprints for court. Usually because humans don’t take actual chunks out of other humans, and we have rather minor canine teeth compared to dogs and MOST other meat-eaters.
Of those bites? Zero deaths. At least… zero deaths from the bites.
Soooooo… yeah, dogs bite a lot more humans than other humans do, and animals in general bite a whole lot more than humans do, whether you’re talking about bites resulting in very minor injuries, or ones that cause major injuries.
You are technically correct, the best kind of correct!
But the dodo had no fear of anything as it was the largest animal on its small island and had no predators. It was as easily killed by humans as it was by invasive species.
Plus I believe the dodos were not actually killed by humans. At least not ‘killed into extinction.’ They were MAINLY killed by the rats (and dogs and pigs) that came to the island on human boats that would eat the dodo eggs. There were dutch sailors that did also occasionally hunt and eat Dodos as an easy snack because the birds had absolutely no fear of humans, would go right up to them, and were awful at running away, but the main reason for their extinction was that the eggs, which were relatively unguarded on the ground, were eaten en masse by those rats, dogs, and pigs.
additional historical oddity: despite being popular in private menageries no one thought to breed dodos in captivity.
Re: Wolves and Bears.
Neither habitually hunts humans. For individual wolves we are a bit too big to risk it, and for packs of wolves we are too small and stringy to make it worth the effort. For bears we cross path in their territories rarely enough that they do not recognise us as prey animals.
That said, both are predators and thus supremely opportunistic. If a chance presents itself they will also kill and eat humans. And a few of them will realise that humans are surprisingly easy to catch and kill and try to make a habit of it. At which point out come the pitch forks and other pointy sticks (to make sure that the habit is not passed on to new generations).
If wolves made a habit of eating humans we never could have tamed them and turned them into dogs. The real reason why we hunted down wolves to the point of extinction is that they hunt our cattle. And occasionally our toddlers if not kept at bay by more alert adults.
(p.s. humans are actually not all that easy to hunt and kill for even the apex predators. Remember our precursors evolved on the savanna being hunted by the precursors of much scarier predators than wolves. Like what eveolved into lions, leopards, hyena and giant running birds that could make a meal out of an elephant)
Let’s not forget that Wolves have also been our greatest friends… we just call them “dogs” now.
“but it also happens to be true.” Incorrect, the only bear that is a man killer is the Polar Bear. Make noise, in the forest and you will hear them, but if they hear you first, You’ll never see them.
I’m a country girl, I have been around animals, all of my life. Thus the extent of my knowledge.
Umm, no it isn’t true, both wolves and bears avoid humans, as they tend to loose in confrontations with humans. Neither species actively hunts humans. Well, Polar Bears consider humans particularly easy to catch food, but even that is rare.
Actually, polar bears DO actively hunt humans, but there arent usually many humans where polar bears hunt in the first place. Polar bears are one of the ONLY actual predators of humans (other than some species of sharks – I know Shark Week but Great Whites DO eat humans if they can) that still exist. And they will go to huge lengths to TRY to eat a human, even when they’re inside a steel/plexiglass cube to scientifically view them.
Just ask Gordon Buchanan. https://youtu.be/RJra0fcMsVU
Basically, if you’re in a steel cage and the animals is trying it’s hardest to eat you even though there are other less difficult food to hunt? You’re prey and they are actively hunting you. Do not be fooled by the Coca Cola commercials. Polar bears are freaking monsters and unlike other bears, playing dead just means they’ll eat you while you’re faking being dead instead of batting you around a bit then leaving :)
But yeah wolves do not generally actively hunt humans anymore and havent for at least 4000-5000 years. Because of the self-domestication thing. National Geographic is great for learning stuff :)
Oh, also a wonderful video game called Never Alone, which is based on a lot of Inuit folklore stories and , has the polar bear as a predator that hunts man. Mainly because polar bears DO hunt man. :) They’re not even remotely intimidated by man…. or any other animal really. Big time apex predator.
Polar Bears have been known to even attack freaking Killer Whales. :)
a Polar bear would attack a spinning lawnmower blade and not stop even as its face is cut to ribbons. They are not smart animals; which also makes them extremely dangerous as you have no choice but to get away far enough it can’t chase, distract it, or kill it.
the fact a town had to cancel Halloween trick or treating because of Polar Bears making that extra terrifying to think they could potentially try to break into houses if they noticed people inside and extreme measures have to be taken to deter them.
Yep. But what they lack in intelligence, however, they make up in terrifying ferociousness and bloodthirst.
I didnt hear of the story you mentioned btw… now I need to find it because that sounds fascinating (and terrifying). :)
I swear, if one more person says ‘But they’re adorable and drink coke.’…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4J_QfiGRRc
Nah, they don’t drink it, they roll around in it and snort it :P
Why do you think they are white and always hangry?
I don’t think coke’s the drug that gives the munchies :)
That’s why didn’t mention having the munchies (almost did, butt then remember it doesn’t)
wish I remembered the year, I think it was a town in Alaska, the jist I remember was that usually the Polar bears walked across the sea ice to get from one territory to another to hunt walrus and seals; however that year it was too warm in October so the sea ice couldn’t support them, so instead they walked further south which brought them through the town in question.
In reality, sharks of any type don’t like eating humans, or in fact any type of non-maritime animal. They simply cannot avoid doing so: sharks don’t have hands or good eye-sight. Their senses tell them there is a wounded (blood)/interesting (making splashy noises) thing in the area.
There are only two tests they can make: (1) is it larger than me? If “yes” then I leave the area; and (2) is it edible/eatable? Only one way to find out: BITE!
Humans contain too much bone for the available meat. The problem sharks have, is they cannot spit stuff out, as opposed to not taking a second bite. They taste you, you’re (soon to be) dead.
Allied to this is our habit of using aluminium tinnies for fishing the off-shore. These small boats always have some EM fragrance, irresistable to a hungry selachid up to 20 meters away. The shark measures up the dinghy for size, then makes a test bite… If you have a non-metal boat, your outboards or propeller shafts will give off an EM field, as will your depth-sounder/sonar transducer.
In all this, we do not include “feeding frenzy”. Feeding frenzy is a type of group insanity, when sharks will literally try to eat anything at all, including each other. Disembowelled sharks have been observed trying to eat their own entrails… Feeding Frenzy is uncommon to rare. What you see hyped up in the MSM is just an ordinary day at the school-fish supermarket, very common in season.
Seems to be ignored: humans are spectacularly good at killing “competition”. In context: Lions in the wild will “organise” “hyena hunts”. Not many people understand that the Spotted Hyena is an apex predator directly and successfully competing with lions and cheetahs in the acquisition of live prey. These days, both species are targetted by humans for the crime of stock theft… Likewise, wolves and cats don’t get along too well either, but suffer for the same alleged crime.
Once humanity descended from the trees, we became members of the Predator Class, and we became Targets for our competition. Later on though, we killed the quadruped villains for the crime of stock theft. (And you’d be surprised how many humans ended up dead for the same crime.)
Here in Oz, our Saltwater Crocodile was severely endangered just because it sees humans as a food item, even though documented deaths weren’t that common. It didn’t help that the skins were valuable as well…
Never, in all my life, have I been the source of such a shitstorm. I am so proud of myself. (T.T)
*pins a medal on you*
Wolves are far more hunted because of their threat to livestock than because of their threat to humans.
Because a threat to livestock is a(n indirect) threat to humans
If something threatens livestock or farms, you determine what is the cause and, if possible, isolate it: if it’s the weather, you build shelter or fences or move the farm if the threat is flooding; if it is an animal, you put up fences and have lookouts to keep them away, if that is not enough, then you remove the threat, preferably by relocation butt if that doesn’t work then the only recourse is to remove the animals entirely
Some farmers are good and only kill as a last resort and only enough to reduce the numbers (so the animals aren’t forced to go for Bessie), others are arseholes and will wipe out the entire population within a thousand mile radius
Looking at the entire conversation:
well first thing is first, demons are supposed to be SAPIENT life forms not instinct driven animals, so I’d no more blame a demonic beast for killing someone than a bear if they are just the same thing.
But that said:
the rarity of human fatalities and predation by bears, wolves, tigers, lions, crocodiles, certain kinds of sharks, ect… is not due to any instinctual fear of humans; that is nonsense; tigers in northern India avoid people while those in southern India kill and eat people; this is due to learned behaviors of avoid humans as in northern India they are/were (this data is over a decade old now so I can’t say as a certainty now) allowed to shoot problem tigers.
bears have become braver in areas no longer hunted.
but in the end the rarity isn’t due to anything really on the animals part; but rather humans avoiding them, learning their behavior, keeping guests away from hunting areas; and learning how to prevent attacks. The attacks still happen but not in any way that the public at large can fear them coming into cities to regularly hunt humans. They are opportunists; and humans are small and easy prey if not armed.
you are meat, you are weak, and if alone and not presenting yourself as a viable threat; they will eat you.
Also on the notes of everything here, yes Polar Bears will actively hunt humans, I have also seen footage of one trying to eat a robot that looked like metal snow…so not the pickiest predator.
But all that aside; this entire conversation is coming across like the “men are like sharks so will rape a naked woman just like a shark will go after meat” BS. Anything Sapient is to be held to a higher criteria of self control and respect for other intelligent life forms than animals.
Ooh exposition sense tingling.
Oooh, I think Dabbler’s miffed!
The problem here is that cultures define good/bad/right/wrong in really diferent wais. It hapend in the same planet with contact between civilications. Imagine isolated planets.
And that is even without the consideration of biology.
For a culture of photovore sapiens; killing, hunting and the like might be an atrocious thing that only the most insane can do.
But if your race can only grow by eating a soul and merging it to you; your scool was probably a hunting ground.
I always saw demons as symbols of temptation.
And as a scapegoat for those who got caught and didn’t find a physical person to blame.
In that universe I see them as shepards – like a shepard raises sheep a demon furthers the production of the kind of energy she likes. And as the production of tantric energy is often seen as a sinful act a succubus is still seen as a temptationer.
Though a demon who feeds on anger just needs to stand outside during rush hour.
You’re probably right here.
But demons are diferent in every canon.
For example: sometimes demon just means “from other universe”. Like in D&D or Elric Chronicles. Sometimes it means that they are the ofspring of the universe’s builders.
So there is a lot of range that this could go.
In the Myth Adventures universe demon meant dimension-traveler and only backward unenlightened places like Klah saw them as “evil”. If you like humor and the occasional pun it’s a great bunch of books. Piers Anthony is one of the Greats.
Sure, but the Myth books were Robert Asprin…..
Lol.
Well, an honest mistake, demons do figure prominently in the Xanth books.
Opps! Yes you are right. I do mix them up a bit because of the puns and humor but Asprin is a little darker and slightly more mature humor.
And Anthony is a dirty old paedophile
You say that like it’s a bad thing….
Because it is a bad thing
What part of ‘dirty old paedophile’ is good? o_O
Although if you go more for the more traditional sources, demons are actually…
Well… um… actually… still not all that bad. When you compare what demons do to what angels do in biblical sources, angels deal waaaaaay more destruction and death and mayhem than demons ever do by quite the wide margin. It’s just that the bible is written from the perspective of angel sympathizers.
In fact… it’s pretty painful when you look at it with an objective eye. It’s all “Rah rah, yay yay, angels committed genocide against yet *another* people we don’t like! Woooo!!! Angels are awesome! Commit more genocide, Angels!!! Woooooo!!!! Um..Oh, now they committed partial genocide against *us*…oh… um… we must have done something wrong, we should totally blame ourselves instead of them. We’ll be better in the future! Go Team Angel! Woooo!”
Meanwhile with demons it’s like, “Um… we’re waiting for them to kill people… um… hey, here’s this point to where… team angel… told demons… to kill people… um… Bad Demons! Go Team Angel! Woooo!!!”
to make this worse the Bible explicitly states God is the only God and is ruler over all spirits good and evil. So the demons aren’t actually antagonists to angels or Gods but rather just doing their jobs. Monotheism is ONE GOD, no opposing supernatural force.
Eh… angels are G-d’s messengers. It’s just… sometimes the message is the kind that a Mafia boss might send.
“Them folks in Sodom are committing home invasions in order to gang rape tourists. I want you to send them a message from Me. Make an example out of them.”
Personally, i mostly see demons as otherworlders, but as otherworlders are often summoned by people who wants to summon savage, cruel or even malign creatures … then that is what they get.
There is also the cases of bigots accidentally(?) summoning “demons” with their mere mix of fear, prejudice and ignorance …
Dabbler had best be careful with out she responds, assuming she elaborates on this. Nature versus nurture. If Tamatha wants to grow up to be a good Demon, she should be encouraged to do so.
Tamatha already has some good role models, whether they agree on that assessment or not.
… “with out”?
Do you mean “with how”?
I missed that typo. Sorry about that.
She can be a good demon, even if she’s told most demons are bad, or that demons have a history of doing exactly what the demon hunter is claiming. In fact, if she was raised to be good, it might be all the more reason to double down on being good. In order to prove that demons being bad are not an absolute, and she can be proof of that lack of an absolute. She’s an individual, after all. :)
Plus there are examples of good demons, or at least demons who turn on being bad to be good, in popular fiction, like “His Dark Materials” or “Good Omens” or “The Good Place.”
Or if you want some other examples, “The Devil You Don’t,” “The Devil Was Sick,” and “The Day After Judgment.”
Or Azazel in Isaac Asimov’s story, “The Two-Centimeter Demon.”
Plus I believe in Chinese folklore, there are several TYPES of demons, not all of whom are malevolent – some are good, and others are just natural counterbalances to the Heavenly Gods, like Gonggong (a water demon) vs Zhorong (a fire god), or who are basically types of ghosts. (anyone more familiar with chinese mythology, let me know if I’m wrong about this, since what I know is mainly from National Geographic and the History Channel, and a few webcomics like Erma… I’m a lawyer, not a far east theologian).
Oh my god, I almost forgot Hellboy as an example. :)
That was a case of nurture over nature, as Hellboy was raised by a human.
Welllll. There are demons that live off sex, and demons that live off violence. I’d guess there are demons who live off pain, and they’re not jolly chaps, even if they have free will all their dice are pretty heavily loaded.
So they can become ER staff or Dominas, there are always options.
Heck become a chiropractor and they’ll have their daily pain delivered to them and they get paid for it.
Indeed, there’s a lot of good ways to beat a monster trope with some lateral thinking.
I can’t believe you didnt mention dentists.
Was I the only one who ever watched “Little Shop of Horrors?”
https://youtu.be/bOtMizMQ6oM
What about demons that live off hope? Assuming they were not eradicated by dragons of course. What about joy?
They died out over a thousand years ago
Demons that live off Hope? I think Miss Corrigan AKA Astra might have some strong words on that count!
On a slightly more serious note, the public position of those classes of Demon would probably depend on how they feed on their respective emotions. It’s one thing if they get a passive charge from being in the presence of hope, but quite another if their feeding on that emotion drains it from the person feeling it. Although if it were the latter case, then a Demon who feeds on pain could be very popular.
I’m not sure if Dabbler and Pixel’s dispute over who has jurisdiction over the prisoner is relevant. Pixel is a Corporal and Dabbler is a civilian consultant. Hiro is the ranking officer on the scene. He’s the only officer on the scene. So Hiro is in charge unless and until Maxima or some other ranking officer arrives.
Decollette is a member of the council. She might gave Dabbler power to enforce.
[America’s ranking isn’t the same as the council’s.
But, yeah. Right now, she is outranked. Just not… outraged.
Dabs is still a Civ either way. she’s not Semper Vigilantis. Krona and Elsbeth are.
So she has no jurisdiction. period.
Weeellllll.
Why would Dabbler care? ^^
If she wants to be able to continue to mess with Max on a regular basis, she’s going to do what her contract says.
A crime was committed against a succubus, and an innocent one at that. Tribal law gives Dabbler first right of justice.
Save it for the judge.
Judge Xuriel presiding: GUILTY!!!
Jurisdiction is a fiction that not everyone may be inclined to entertain.
That would definitely apply to ARC-Swat’s command structure. If ARC-Light and ARC-Swat are treated as separate branches, Hiro might not be in Pixel’s chain of command. Can an Air Force Major give orders to, for instance, an Army Corporal? I honestly don’t know.
To whom is Dabbler a civilian consultant? Archon, and thus effectively in everyone’s chain of command? ARC-Swat, and maybe not in Pixel’s? What, if anything, is her effective rank (I would assume that some civilian consultants might have some ability to exercise authority, as needed for their duties)?
And that doesn’t touch what the process is when there’s a jurisdictional dispute between the Twilight Council and Archon. I would assume they’d have some process in place for that, which would effectively take the decision out of the Pixel’s, Dabbler’s, and Hiro’s hands.
It’s a potentially complicated issue, and we don’t have enough details to be certain what the canonical answer would be.
“Can an Air Force Major give orders to, for instance, an Army Corporal”
No they can’t, also a Major can’t give orders to an MP corporal who’s outside their division (or at least is very limited in what they can do).
That said, ARCON is it’s own completely new branch with members coming in from everywhere, what their rules are could be completely different.
I think it might be better to say “no they can’t, but don’t push it.” Especially when you get to places that have multiple branches present on a regular basis like the Pentagon.
Yeah they can’t give orders but they can strongly suggest things and you’d better have a good reason for not taking that suggestion :)
Yes, exactly. Orders to undertake multi-day (or even hours) tasks wouldn’t be given, but any (smart) Corporal is going to allow the Major to take charge at the scene and will follow ‘suggestions’ to take specific actions such as securing the area, watching a prisoner, contacting their superiors, etc. until and unless they receive orders from their chain of command to the contrary.
I think the only bit that really will matter in the end is when Hiro says “I’ll just figure this all out after the prisoner is secure in a cell at Archon.” Follow immediately afterwords with everybody just ignoring that he already left at speed listening to Dabbler’s wonderful explanation which only Halo notices the exit.
This will result in Archon determining if this is a super, a metahuman, a science experiment gone wrong, or straight up stupid demon hunting. Overall they’re the most qualified and the funniest thing I can think of right now would be Dabbler trying to explain to Maxima why she didn’t ask for help first. Then she’s going to have to explain why she didn’t let Hiro put on a shirt.
When I was in service, I was…known for my independent-mindedness. That said, if a comparable incident had occurred, and a butter bar of whatever branch (or ensign) had sought to take authority over my actions, I would not have hesitated to comply. Why? Because they are NOT on base, and the situation is NOT secured. There is no reason to believe that our hunter is alone, and the sort of **** measuring that’s happening right now is a good way for the wrong people to get hurt or killed.
Hiro’s in charge. I really don’t know why Pixel is having this conversation at all.
Dabbler’s out of line. But I’m pretty sure that there is some history behind why.
Hiro is in charge, but Pixel is a member of a defense force that has operated outside of human jurisdiction for millenia.
As far as Archon is concered the Semper Vigilantis are a vigilante force and they are only barely allowed to exist within the borders of the USA because Archon does not have the manpower to replace them.
As far as the Council and the Semper Vigilantis are concerned Archon are upstarts with more power than common sense and have not the first clue about what they are facing.
Both are right, but at the end of the day the question remains if Archon accepts that the Council has a certain legal authority to operate inside the USA. Which it seems to do, possibly because the council could simply switch off the veil and leave Archon to deal with 7 billion thoroughly freaked out humanss.
So Hiro, as the ranking Archon officer on site, has to make the judgement call if the Semper Vigilantis has the right to arrest and detain (and disappear) a supernatural entity. Which to be fair is their reason to exist, or if this is an extraordinary threat which is under the remiss of Archon on American soil.
But regardless of the decision, Dabbler has no authority. She is a civilian consultant of Archon but has no rank neither as commisioned nor as enlisted member. She can not give orders but during missions is required to obey orders from (commisioned) officers. Of course, her being a civilian consultant means that she has specialised knowledge and or skills that may be critical to the success of a mission and any good officer will defer to her as much as possible on her specialty. Torture-murder clearly is far outside any such limits.
If Hiro accepts the claim of the Semper Vigilantis then the demon hunter goes with Pixel to whatever the Council uses to detain and interrogate its prisoners. And Archon effectively puts non-humans outside of human law (accepting the Council as a shadow government outside of the jurisdiction of the USA government, and certain beings living on American soil not being governed or protected by the USA government either. In effect tacitly accepting that there is a hidden society outside she scope and invisible to humanity)
If on the other hand Hiro claims jurisdiction and Pixel agrees with him, then the demon hunter goes with him to Archon where she will be interrogated by Arc Light and or Arc Dark. Possibly with members of the Council or the Semper Vigilantis brought in as expert civilian contractors to help deal with the unknowns.
We all know what the American government would say about this, but they are currently busy pissing off Cora (and by extension the entire galactic community), over control over a deadly pile of bio-psionic garbage in the hopes of gleaning enough information to create a FTL drive while ignoring the warnings of the woman who clearly knows more about the dangers than they do (because they really want that drive and like to pretend that if they believe really hard that nothing will go wrong then magically the mind and body altering effects of whatever creates the fel will not similarly warp humans into unrecognisable abominations).
But neither Archon nor the Council will give Dabbler any influence over the detaining and interrogating of the demon hunter, and they certainly will not let her torture and remove select internal organs from the demon hunter to get her to talk.
Pixel is Arc-Lite, and does fall under Hiro.
Elspbeth and Krona are Semper Vigilantis.
Hiro is Arc-Swat, not Arc-Light. Not sure why anyone would think that one reports to the other. Both report to the general though (and I’m also assuming to Maxima, who is both in charge of Arc-Swat and also right under the general for archon in general, and has been shown able to give orders to VARIOUS departments in Archon).
But Hiro has no authority over Pixel to give orders on where the prisoner goes, especially if there’s already a written set of jurisdictional rules, which apparently there is according to this comic. It’s like saying that an army general has to take orders from a navy admiral. Or an employee from Best Buy has to take orders from a manager at Staples, regardless of what US law says about whatever the ‘order’ is. :)
Because typically the highest ranking person at the scene is in charge, and a major outranks a corporal by a country mile and back again.
How Arc-swat and Arc-light interact is unknown to the readers, because that kind of detail is typically unimportant. But it’s not out of the question for one organization to be subordinate to another. But even in those cases I’d find it hard to believe that a (smart) corporal would lean too heavily on the strict letter of the law when dealing with a major in a subordinate unit.
It’s not about who has to say “yes sir” on paper. It’s about survival. The threat level is unknown. Which means it is high. (Just like all guns are loaded unless your finger is inside the chamber.)
Major Hiro should calmly but firmly inform all present that they are returning to HQ ASAP, and that the jurisdictional issue will be settled in a secure environment.
Probably closer to 6 billion freaked out humans. I mean, the aliens have been here for quite a while now, and thanks to the veil blend in very well. I’m also thinking about how many there were at the club the night after Sydney found out about her com ball…
The actual rule is military personnel can refuse any order by a superior officer who IS NOT IN THEIR CHAIN OF COMMAND, which means an Air Force corporal could refuse and order from an Air Force Captain who was not in his chain of command. However, that rule is, typically, only used when the superior officer issues a clearly illegal or obviously wrong order. Other than that, Lurker314 is right, in combat situations or any situation that is not “secure”, one defers to the superior rank simply because there is not time to debate who is in charge, their is time for that AFTER the situation is secured.
I’ve heard of this even going to its logical conclusion, of a private refusing an order from a general in his own branch, but not in his chain of command, on the basis of an order given to him by his sergeant. And, at the end of the event, much to the general’s frustration, the private was declared to have done the right thing.
That’s less a logical conclusion and more a fundamental principle.
During the cold war, we had replicas of Soviet communications stations in West Germany. The replacement parts were hard to come by–specifically, spies had to obtain them and then exfiltrate them. Some generals began to think that said parts would make nifty souvenirs. So..the parts were ordered locked inside a cage. No generals allowed.
If the private is the gate guard, you are NOT going in contrary to whatever orders that private has received unless he knows you to be 1) in his chain of command and 2) higher rank then where the order came from.
I’ve heard about a general who attempted to gate crash during an exercise. He got his car perforated. I always assumed that said general had REALLY ****** off someone & was given the job of going around & testing base security.
MPs or similar roles are a good exception to the ‘defer to superior ranks’ rule. They have a specific job to do, and they would be in dereliction of their duty were they to allow anyone of higher rank, regardless of service, to fail to carry out their prior orders.
But again, they would be smart to refuse in as polite a way as possible.
Correction:
* regardless of service, to order them to fail to carry out their prior orders.
Heh. I just had an old memory. During Basic, the recruits would “guard” the dorms. (Yes, dorms. I was Air Force, not military.) You did NOT get into that dorm unless you were either recognized by the guard or had a pass signed by the CO. In fact, if you were guarding a dorm for a different flight, personal recognition did not work, because your TI was not permitted in that other dorm. Which is why I gave the two criteria above.
And if that Private was smart, he refused that General’s order in the most respectful way as is humanly possible.
Extra complicated as xuriel is civilian contractor demon, so more counsel than arc before the chain of command issue but still some requirement for the job, while pixel is a super in arc first while a were placing her some authority and obligations as subject to the counsel.
No, ARCHON is the organization. Hiro is arcswat (combat troop) and Pixel is arc-lite (Intel), but they’re in the same branch. If Aranae is a supernatural being then SV has a claim, if she merely has super powers, then she’s all ARCHON’s.
Arc-SWAT and Arc-LITE and Arc-Dark are separate commands within the same branch, in the same way that the Air Force had Strategic Command and Tactical Command and all those other wings during the cold war.
Hiro is surrounded by women, he knows enough, to stay out of it.
A smart Hiro will have already called Maxima. Let her come down and sort all this out.
An office who always punts problems upstairs rather than handling them himself, and who is so insecure that he can’t take command of a situation he happens across, probably doesn’t make Major in the first place.
Hiro may or may not have notified Maxima as to what is going on yet. But either way that doesn’t mean he is waiting to receive orders from Maxima before taking the situation in hand.
He should have resigned his commission then, because there is only a few males in the entire organisation, and he’s not a fucking hen-peeked no-chin pansy-wristed loser
If this were a manga, sure. But it’s not. Guesticus is right. Hiro is a major, and ranking officer on the scene. A scene which is NOT secure. He’s in charge, and I expect we’re about to see him demonstrate that fact.
Well everyone in the event of a dispute, perhaps jurisdiction should be decided by a neutral third party.
They must summon THE JUDGE from the world between worlds, between life and the death, the grand dragon of truth…or a reaper, which ever works.
Or ya’know, just secure the damned prisoner for now and decide what is to be done later. Still sitting on a roof top here and they have no reason to know or even entertain the possibility she was working alone. Secure first, interrogate later.
Damnit Dabbler, don’t crush the loli succubus’ spirit just yet! I’m sure it’s just a matter of time, but I’d like it if she could hold on to at least some of that innocence for a little while longer, it’s just too adorable.
I’m sure Max would be of at least fleeting interest of the combination that has Sydney in a calm state like that. ;)
Sadly, until it is reviewed by several doctor teams, it would be considered torture and iligal.
Buuuut… it is worth the wait.
Sydney was fairly calm even as she was searching for Tamatha.
She went into an adrenaline rush during the fight, and then Krona’s misfired attempt to cure her temporarily suppressed her ADHD meds. Now Espbeth’s paralysis cure has released her from the paralysis, she’s having an adrenaline crash, and its probably not that long until dawn.
Of course she’s calm, she’s probably barely awake.
The combination poison/antipoison seems to have an interesting effect on Sidney.
And it calms her down.
Sydney was calmed down before she was paralyzed. Krona’s attempt accidentally neutralized Sydney’s ADHD meds along with the paralytic agent.
Well, the green bubbles indicate it’s a different kind of calm.
hence the ‘interesting effect’.
That is pure speculation with no canon to support it. The author actually opined on the situation, and didn’t bother to mention that ‘fact’ you threw out with such surety. What he said was (paraphrased) our resident motor mouth had a backlog of yammering to get out once she was unparalyzed.
Keep in mind: Sydney is also doped on ADHD meds of approx. crystal meth strength. And she’s had a drink or two. There’s a lot of mixed chemistry going on in her bloodstream right now.
Hmmmm. If ranked Twilight Council reps show up, there might be vampires interested in taking a taste of her blood. For kicks on the one hand, but I wonder how good they are at analyzing a blood sample by tasting it?
I’d guess not very. Biological organisms aren’t really designed for fine tuned chemical analysis. I mean, we can sometimes make some amazing guesses and be right, but we can just as easily make some amazing guesses and be dead wrong. And possibly dead.
Just as well Vamps tend to be pre-dead then
Indeed, it’s much less risky to work on someone who’s already dead.
Two things one is it just me or does the demon hunter seem to have less arms or less top mass for the arms then she should being all tied up. Dunno could just be the way there tied to her but her tie up looks more like normal human woman with arms then women with 6 arms and a b maybe c sized chest. Other words she don’t look top heavy enough in the tie up pose.
Two Dabbler needs to steal a line from star wars and say it all depends on a certain point of view.
DaveB says in the Author’s Notes that the other arms are tied behind her back.
It’s been a while since I was able to read stuff like that without snickering.
We have several governments that have he ability to end all human life in the world within the hour.
These Demon Hunters accept the thousands hurt, crippled and dead through cars, firearms and many other means each year, but demons preying on humans? That’s crossing the line.
I think it’s just a matter of specialization. They know about that, it’s just that demons and the harm they do are their field.
Human beings are great at deeming something an acceptable risk when they feel it benefits them even if it hurts or maims way more humans than what they’re going on about. Consider the petroleum industry, power production alone generates massive amounts of pollution that’s harmed or killed millions yet people vigorously defend it while demonizing nuclear power which has almost no pollution issues to speak of and has only a handful of deaths to its name in comparison and much of that due to stupid human error and older very bad designs.
The pro/anti-gun argument also falls under that, those who’re anti-gun are vehement in insisting they have no value because THEY see them having no value to them and completely ignore all examples of where personally having a gun saved someone because they’re sure THEY will never be in a similar situation. Point out the deaths from cars however from drunk drivers and they’re just as vehement about defending vehicle access and want to insist how all vehicles being installed with breath testers like they do in some vehicles for drunk drivers is bad because it would inconvenience them and require them to have to pay more for a vehicle.
SATAN: “Situational ethics is wonderful; it’s so close to no ethics at all.”
Also, we get used to certain threats after awhile. For example, the flu has killed thousands of Americans just this year alone, but all the disease reporting is on coronovirus that has killed hundreds in the entire world.
Bad example.
China screwed the initial response to nCor so we didn’t know the key factors like transmission rate/vector, lethality, incubation period until it had already spread out of control. We literally can’t know how many are sick/dead because China can’t test every sick person, and doesn’t test the dead who were unconfirmed infected.
A better example of accustomed risk is driving. Especially driving with a cell phone.
Also, many Chinese go for “Traditional Medicine”. Which usually has no effect.
If you do not have a medical degree please stop spreading misinformation. Though I am angry enough to want to give you a lesson in pharmacology and the history of medicine I have decided that it would be bad since I likely cannot remain calm enough to not insult you during that time. I am currently pursuing a degree in medicine so I feel a little more strongly about medicinal misinformation. (like how people are hoarding and making a killing on overpricing 10x priced masks knowing they are not necessary but panicked people will buy it even in a non-stricken zone)
Saying “Traditional Medicine usually has no effect” is like saying “Doctors are usually evil” and is so far from the truth the U.S. had to legalize acupuncture recently [a Traditional Medicine Method with SEVERAL THOUSAND YEARS OF HISTORY BEHIND IT, so far back it is documented in the First Traditional Chinese Medicine book《黄帝内经》] so please try to refrain from making statements on medicine without knowledge on it.
Medicine is a field so insanely complex a doctor can be right for years or tens or hundreds or thousands of years before science can prove it works, and saying something “has no effect” just because you haven’t seen it work is like me saying Giraffes don’t exist because I’ve never seen one.
Hope you have a nice day. Sorry for the rant, couldn’t refrain from commenting, this must be how Pander feels on subjects of law being mentioned in the comments.
I appreciate that you feel the pain I often feel :)
PS – how do you pronounce that chinese medical book in english phonetically (I don’t speak Chinese and I’m really curious now).
No idea either, but you can listen to Google Translate have a go at 《黄帝内经》.
Maybe acupuncture works, and maybe it doesn’t. But ya can’t claim it’s ancient, and saying so makes it seem like you haven’t studied like you say you have.
The Chinese wiped out the acupuncture that has thousands of years of history behind it by systematically killing everyone who did it. Acupuncture was a secret and it was imperial, and this was contrary to egalitarian principles and a challenge to state authority. They were very vigorous about this.
Acupuncture as it is today is a modern reconstruction remembered in small fragments by the chinese diaspora around the pacific rim and may or may not have anything to do with the old practice.
Ah yes, driving, one of my favorite subjects. The latest year we have published statistics for (2018) has the confirmed death count at 36000± of which more than 7000 were not even using a motor vehicle (pedestrian or cyclist). Can you imagine the uproar over a device that killed more than 28000 of its users a year and more than 7000 people who were not even using it?
Just citing the number of deaths per year is going to give a very skewed perception of how dangerous something is. I’m not saying cars *aren’t* dangerous, but it’s important to put things in proportion to the number of people using them.
If there were merely 36,000 people using cars, and they killed 28,000 of their users and 7,000 more people, we’d have already stopped using them before we learned of the statistics, OMG.
However, if you add into the statistic of how many people made use of cars, and determined how many of those 7,000 more people *had* used cars (including ridden in them) even though they weren’t using them right then, and you’d find that the numbers were looking a heck of a lot more palatable even to you.
Sure, it’s way too many people dying to *one* cause. Except looking at the details, it’s not just one cause. It’s one device, with multiple mechanisms of failure and opportunities for intentional misuse.
Ah, two of my most favorite topics which almost inevitably result in extremes on either side devolving into an argument that ensures no fair and productive solutions and will ever be arrived at.
Green energy nuts who absolutely demand renewable resources, but won’t allow them to be built anywhere, ever, because of environmental concerns, versus dinguses who could care less if the sky is black with soot so long as they can ‘roll coal’ while driving their kids to school in their giant diesel truck.
Conversely, gun nuts who absolutely refuse to exercise the slightest bit of self control or safety in their homes DUDE, BUY FUCKING SAFE) or communities, and wonder why one of their kids just shot up a school, or the dipshits with their own personal sous chef living in a gated community that’s protected by armed guards wondering why someone who lives in a slum, trailer park or literal wilderness would need firearms to protect themselves or put food on the table.
It’s maddening, absolutely maddening.
I like you.
You at least TRY to show that it isn’t that simple.
You will find, nearly all the arsefisters who shot up schools or nightclubs did not come from the home of a ‘gun nut’, because those ‘gun nuts’ teach their kids how to handle guns at an early age
The problem is monkey-nutters who won’t even allow gun clubs to teach anyone proper gun safety
Thank you. We also mostly buy things like safes (actually approaching *vault* status) to store our firearms, because collecting and customizing them can be a considerable investment in time and money. A lot of us are also active military or veterans and/or law enforcement, who follow and teach safe handling.
You’re absolutely right. Exposing kids to guns early and demystifying them is important. Teach what they are and how they work, how to handle one safely, and then emphasize most clearly *never ever handle one without a responsible adult.* It was frightening that a survey I recall seeing showed about 80 percent of kids said they would pick up a gun and take it to someone if they found it in the street. *Wrong*. You don’t touch it, kids; you tell someone, preferably someone who then calls 911.
Sorry- rant over.
“petroleum industry, power production alone generates massive amounts of pollution that’s harmed or killed millions” Uhh..killed MILLIONS? How do you come up with MILLIONS? Do you have any concrete examples or even solid proof? Vague assertions that “pollution causes cancer” prove nothing.
Do you know how long the petroleum industry and power production has been going?
Look up a little thing called “The Industrial Revolution”
Pixel toes
And Dabsy-toes
And tied-up spidey-lady….
I want to be tied up too wouldn’t you?
Well, Elspbeth has pink fuzzy handcuffs.
It seems as if Sydney’s anti toxin is mostly alcohol.
Dabbler seems to be pretty ‘good’. And the Littlest Succubus there is so naive its almost painful. So they aren’t all bad.
Also… Why does the art look so unpolished?
Hell, even Vehemence (who may or may not be a Malumi) was a pretty nice guy. Gotta remember he really only incited that fight because he wanted to, not for some nefarious reason (which, ironically, Vector and Opal probably were).
Hurting people because you want to, and like, hurting people is a pretty bad reason.
I thought that Vehemence only incited that fight because Deus put him up to it. Admittedly, off-camera, so we only get to guess about it until the big reveal however many years or decades from now that is.
Don’t believe SmugD had anything to do with it
As much as he would like idiots to believe it, he is not behind everything that has happened (unless you are going to blame the Fel on him as well… )
‘Good’ for a certain definition of good. She’s also extremely violent (though according to Cora she’s actually calmed down since she came to Earth) and a literal sexual predator. Sure, most of her ‘prey’ seem to be fine with it, but she’s already shown that she can be very convincing – her boobs are literally hypnotic, so consent becomes something of a vague concept when she’s around, and she clearly considers people who are not so sexually liberated to be prudes whose opinions are stupid. What I’m saying is, it’s not so strange some people would see her as a bad guy.
A wolf can be well-spoken, empathetic, and have a clear sense of moral justice. But at the end of the day, a rabbit is going to have a low opinion of him no matter what he does.
If you want to assess what’s good, imagine that Dabbler was a male character.
Mr. Dabbler hypnotizes women, and induces them to have sex with him. Like a sex vampire, he lives off the energy produced by his rapes.
Somehow, it’s not so funny. The comments section would scorch the website, and Grrlpower would probably be forced off the net unless it mended its ways
Or unless a woman was writing it.
Because pornography written by and for women tends to feature that.
Female pornography tends to be more like 50 Shades of Gray – basically tends to be either light BDSM stuff, or ‘taming the wild dangerous man’ stuff MOST of the time, if you’re going to base it on frequency of the subject matter :)
The most popular male characters in female literature, especially in female erotic literature are, and I kid you not:
1) Vampires (which does often involve mesmerization of the woman)
2) Werewolves
3) Pirates
4) Surgeons
5) Billionaires
Seriously. In that order. There was actual research on that lol :)
With literature, yes. The Popular with Women category on pornhub, which also backs it up with research for both monetary and general ‘we-want-to-know’ reasons, includes a lot of tentacle porn and other rather extreme hardcore stuff.
~30% of women have a rape or forced fetish, it’s extraordinarily common, much more common than in men (whether aggressor or victim in the males case, for females it’s almost always as victim), and yes there are studies on it as well.
And though I know it’s a sin against science to use anecdotal evidence… I enjoy the hardcore tentacle rape myself as a girl. Also the mezzing by Dabbler.
But personally enjoying it does not mean that it’s not a sticky ethics question. In a lot of ways, it’s still just seduction, just with added tools, since it’s explicitly said it can’t force you to do something, any more than taking care of your body to look good, wearing good smelling perfume/cologne, and being witty to make yourself interesting, or being rich, can make someone get into bed with you. On the other hand, it fucks with your brain and we’ve already declared that consent under alcohol isn’t consent, sooo… yeah. Sticky.
“Mr. Dabbler hypnotizes women, and induces them to have sex with him.”
Except that’s not how Dabbler’s powers work.
It’s already been mentioned that people can resist the charm even if it’s on full blast. There’s a temptation, but no actual mind control.
“It’s already been mentioned that people can resist the charm even if it’s on full blast. ” Sydney has already done so!
So has Maxima. And Arianna. And Harem. And General Faulk. :)
Please tell me Dabbles is holding another dildo in panel one, please?
It has been used as such I believe…
Pi piru piru piru pipiru pi….
Hopefully Décolleté shows up and scoops up Tamatha,happy that she’s safe will start making googly eyes at Hiro….!
Why is Dabbles hesitating? Sydney said they are not inherently good or bad, unless there are some species of demon who are incorrigible goody-goodies
It’s nature vs nurture, and nature can have a pretty heavy thumb on the scale sometimes. A Malus isn’t going to end up a pacifist, a Succubus isn’t going to end up chaste, and whatever class of demon thrives on pain isn’t going to be nice to be around.
Generally demons aren’t going to be a good match for human ethics, just because their very nature is going to cause them to take things to extremes, instead of the golden mean.
And again I raise the question: How do they raise demons/succibi. (looking at you Dave!)
Like Sidney said, ‘the most sheltered succubus in history.’
Previous Tamatha turned out deficient in all the ways to get second hand tantric energy,
until Decollete found her she was unaware of the veil, now she seems unaware of her peoples mores.
I mean, in general children pick this stuff up just by growing up with their parents and in their society.
And even if she was an abandoned orphan, I would like to think that Decollete sat her down
and had a good long Mentor-pupil talk about all the ins and outs of being a succubus.
Like:
-The veil hides your wings, tail and stuff like that but wear clothing because running around naked is generally not acceptable in this society.
-These are the places and combinations of people to get secondhand tantric energy, ranked from best to worst.
-This is the basic way of acquiring firsthand tantric energy, please ask questions when you think you’re ready for it (this is dependent on age/cultural values).
-This is how your/our people live in our society, in this society (earth/human) these actions (list) are not always considered good/bad/appropriate (breakdown in what is acceptable or not and especially when).
Seems also something Decolleté should have teached her fast.
I mean, yeah eating is an important lesson, but unless eating tantric energy is like a gazillion times more difficult they make it seem to be or Decolleté is like her foster parent for one day you’ve the time to teach her something extra.
I mean she’s a teenage girl. She knows the stories out of fiction, so just point out the wrongs and wright in these stories.
Yeah … unless the mentorship happened like this week, it seems Decolleté is not really doing good job.
… wait. Maybe it happened this week.
Teaching a kid to eat essential food is a little a low bar for any mentor.
Everyone who gets to keep their kids apparently succeeded.
Not to mention that Tamatha’s squeamishness regarding sexuality is… frankly rather worrisome. She’s an adolescent, yes… an adolescent succubus. She ought to be fully versed on human sexuality, even if she’s required to restrain herself to voyeurism until she turns eighteen.
“It’s an arbitrary number picked by the human society we currently live in. When I was your age, most of my peers were already married. But we DO live in this society, and so we need to abide by its rules. So… watch, sense, enjoy, and save it until you’re old enough to vote. Then we’ll get you a nice beefcake buffet for your birthday.”
Unless Dabbles and Pixelicious switched places, Aranea is glaring, and shouting, at Pixelicious (note whose fee she is glaring at in the first panel, and which direction she is shouting in in panel three)
In first panel she obviously glares at her bonds (notice the green lines where she tries to wiggle out of it). Then the two start talking and bickering about who gets to interrogate her and get her attention.
I figured that, in panel one she’s glaring at the ribbons binding her, while in three she’s directing her wrath at both of them (they are standing right next to each other).
Yes, did notice the struggle-lines, and, while they are _close_ together, they are not standing on top of each, and Pixelicious is on that side
Plus, it’s simply more fun to imagine Ms Anti-Demon has more of a problem with the furry who is siding with the demons, then an actual demon :)
I thought there would be a fight over prisoner custody but I thought it would be between Pixel (ARC-Light) and Krona (Semper Vigilantis), not the two of them against Dabbler (Jack Bauer School, Class of ’09).
Also, don’t crush the adorable pre-teen’s spirit, Dabbler!
DaveB: “Okay, they’re well socialized for certain segments of demon society, which trends towards… macho most of the time.”
First up in my mind for a “well-socialized demon” & “machismo” would naturally be Hellboy.
Is Tamatha gonna be getting horns growing in? That’s got to be itchy.
She had her horns surgically removed. Rather sloppily, but the stumps aren’t visible due to her poofy hair.
Dabbler is unguligrade, not digitigrade. She walks on her toenails.
It’s not a perfect analogy, since they’re not sapient, but we don’t eradicate apex predators just because some of them occasionally turn into man eaters. We eliminate or neutralize the man eaters and let the others take their place in the natural order.
With sapients, it’s even more imperative to take them on individual cases. Even if the majority of demons are malevolent, as sapients they have to be treated as individual actors with specific agency. And especially as sapients, assuming they have personhood status (reasonable given the nature of this world), vigilantism against even malevolent ones is murder.
Lets see if this works:
if not https://animaldiversity.org/collections/contributors/anatomical_images/feet_and_legs/posture/medium.jpg
Came to the comments to say this. “Non-plantigrade” would be more accurate.
Both your digitigrade characters? *cough*, Tamatha has them too- Equal rights for the kids! *rhubarbrhubarbrhubarbrhubarb* :P
Panel 6 is so encouraging.
As I commented earlier, it’s easy to view Dabbler as one of the good guys.
The reality is that she is a succubus.She is a kind of vampire, who lives off the sexual energy of others. She routinely hypnotizes men so that they will consent to have sex with her, then she drains them of energy and leaves them.
It sounds very funny, until you imagine her as a male character, Mr. Dabbler. now change the words above –
– Mr. Dabbler is a kind of vampire, who lives off the sexual energy of others. He routinely hypnotizes women so that they will consent to have sex with him, then he drains them of energy and leaves them.
Not so funny now?
“Routinely hypnotizes men so they will consent to have sex with her” is false.
We have not seen a single example of her using hypnosis to have sex with an unwilling person.
She could, but never has.
Also, she is not gender-specific.
Now try the truth: “She routinely uses her power to make herself extremely attractive so that available and willing people will more enjoy having sex with her. She also routinely messes with people for fun using this same power.”
“One-eyed Mike” really needs to get a replacement for his lost eye. Dabbler could maybe hook him up, if he did not think of her as the bad guy.
The worst she ever did was remove certain details about certain muscles from a mans memory, “to not ruin human women for him.” Wich is actually a prety nice thing, giving that Succubi are quite literally designed to be superior to human women. And men. And various.
She doesn’t trick people into consent. She’s preternaturally attractive, but that doesn’t negate consent anymore than seducing someone with your own charms would. It just means more people will find her attractive.
And categorically labeling an entire race as evil because many, or even the majority, of them are would make the heroes no better than the space cops that glassed the Alari homeworld.
Actually because her “preternatural attractiveness” includes a lust aura that effects the minds of others it does negate consent.
To put the comparison simply, she drugs people and then has sex with them while they are not actually able to give consent.
Metallix gets the point.
If a very drunk girl acts as a willing sex partner, it’s due to her drunken state, and her consent is not real. It’s rape, even if she’s willing all the way
.
Dabbler’s partners may be willing, but their minds are under the influence of something stronger – her “glamor” effects.
Now, let’s take a step back. It’s a web comic that I love, and it’s very funny. It is clear that the vast majority of her “victims” would volunteer to be glamorised if given the choice – like a stage hypnotist’s “victims”.
However, my point stands. If it was Mr. Dabbler, the Comments pages would burn with the fury.
Her glamor effect doesn’t do that though.
It just makes her really, really physically attractive. They have full consent.
The closest to what you’re talking about is the hypno-boobs. Which is a silly gag.
*points to my name*
Um… the consent of the “very drunk girl” depends largely on how she got that way. If someone slipped a roofie into her beverage, then it’s most definitely rape. But if she, and her companion, both got plastered by deliberate choice, neither one of them has committed rape.
If you CHOOSE to ingest a mind altering substance, then you are responsible for what you do while under the influence of that substance. Whatever you did while you were drunk is your responsibility, whether you wake up in bed with someone you would never have touched while sober… or you wake up in prison with a lot of bruises and a court date set in a couple of weeks.
Also, the idea that Dabbler is robbing partners of their consent via being so attractive is… problematic. That’s like saying that, if an individual is sufficiently attractive, then those around them cease to be responsible for their own behavior. “She was too hot! I couldn’t help it – she was just too hot! Any guy would have done the same!”
When in fact we see Dabbler surrounded by people who are quite capable of restraining themselves in her presence… even when she deliberately flirts with them. We have not seen her engage in anything even remotely resembling sexual assault… which is a good thing for her, or else Maxima would have punted her into orbit.
“includes a lust aura that effects the minds of others”
Pretty sure it doesn’t. She can certainly turn it up to 11, but even then people can still say no to her. She has specifically only once used mind control to stop a combatant; Jaberwocky.
Blonk gets it
When she was first introduced, she came in dialled up to 11, and not one person, man or woman, jumped on her
Hoping there’s some exposition on that ‘Wellllllllllll..’, as Dabbs is inferring the demon hunter isn’t really all that far off the mark in her generalization.
Just like how I don’t think that Coot is a bad guy as a monster hunter considering that he’s a monster hunter ENTIRELY because his family was killed BY monsters. His only experience with monsters has been them being utterly horrific. They kill his family. They trick him into being a guinea pig and kill him, they hunt him, etc. Plus since there’s a field up worldwide that generally hides their existence, there’s no way for him to possibly EVER see examples of monsters being good. It’s hard for me to possibly see Coot as being a bad guy because of this, no mattter how stupid and ‘red-necky’ he’s portrayed as being.
Especially if there wind up being, statistically, a significant majority of monsters that are either not ‘good’ naturally, or who are only good because of being hemmed in by the Council’s rules which are designed to let the Council continue to survive and thrive in secret.
*especially if they’re
Had to fix my spelling error.
Sorry, but you had it right the first time.
Dabs is implying. You’re inferring.
I feel the need to put this video link response here to that apt correction:)
https://youtu.be/_95AKKmqGvE?t=10
Welllllll… Dabs was planning on some demonically brutal deviltry in front of Tamatha.
I wonder who is really on the money here?
Hoofed animals are unguligrade (walk on their toenails); cats are digigrade (walk on their toes).
People and raccoons are plantigrade.
Just saying.
The moment you realize that “good demons” are actually a minority… Or at least they are a minority on earth.
There is probably a better reason for the long pause and her hesitation to say yes, but for now let the pause question everything you thought you knew.
Or there are a lot of bad demons, but the good demons keep them out so they can live in peace.
You know, “Coexistence is the Only Option” – Motto of the Council.
If bad demons do not support that motto, the good demons are going to go bad for a spell.
no bad dabbler! you used up you quota of crushing dreams for this month
“Wellll…”
“Wait, are we the bad guys?”
Jane from FIREFLY: Let’s go be bad guys.
Did Dabbler unfrost her tips? I thought the new color went up higher than her shoulders?
Two pages ago Dabbler’s top had vertical stripes and a side panel.
One page ago it had vertical stripes but no side panel.
In this page it has no vertical stripes and no side panel.
Soon it will be gone completely! (not that I’m complaining)
I hadn’t considered the possibility that her rear claws were lazer claws too. If her rear claws slice instead of gripping, that must play havoc with her traction when climbing, running or a list of other activities.
They are not active all the time, no moreso than her ‘hand’ claws
Demon society, going by various folklores and fictions demons usually by nature harbor some anti-social instincts, high levels of aggression and lust, selfish, greedy, possessive; so…basically humans with super powers and the ignoring the norms of whatever society is imagining them.
that aside, society wise demons seem to follow a rule of power; much like gods (which makes sense as more often than not folklore/mythological demons are just the gods of their ancestors they cast aside for new religions or the gods of foreign powers they have declared as evil); anywho;
in essence, the strongest demons make the rules. The “Overlord class” as it were. So depending on the wants of this demon or pantheon of demons will mold the rest of the demon realm.
1: Hierarchy: one of the more popular set ups, demons have princes, kings, dukes, early, magistrates, and so forth imitating human civilization and the stronger and smarter demons seen as royalty with their legions of more basic fiends serving them going down the line of power and abilities.
2: Corporation: a modern version of the Hierarchy version is Hell as a business, either a law firm, something political, or a basic (we provide a service, they pay a fee…usually a contract to become a future employee or product)…with a ton of variations; souls are currency, souls are future indentured labor in the food court…or regenerating menu item, power sources for battery crystals, ect…
-both of the above can be trying to take over Earth, tempting souls, just doing their jobs as part of the after life system, or mistaken for those by humans-
3: Military: Hell or demon realm is an army of demons, this version is always the wants to take over the mortal realm, maybe even destroy heaven and bring about an age of darkness. They also seem to have the weakest kind of Overlord, and generally end up being defeated by other demons who then organize Hell or by some god of goddess; maybe even a legendary hero.
4: Wilderness: Hell is jus a wilderness, there may be spots of civilized behavior but they are not the whole thing; the reason is, while civilized demons can be powerful and etch out a niche for themselves, the defacto overlords here are either a “great beast” (giant kaiju super demon) that wanders the land or sleeps on some mountain/is the mountain that has to be kept appeased. Or far too many stronger demons are just monsters, animal like creatures hunting soul bodies and “civilization” is actually the result of the souls of the damned grouping up for mutual defense forming their own personal hells like a zombie movie fort only with no death only suffering.
everything is usually these four or some combination or variation there of, even a Hell that is a giant circus, or a labyrinth run by torture demons who worship a giant obelisk in which is said to lie the great sleeper who they believe upon being fed the suffering of enough souls will awaken and fulfill the purpose of retuning creation back to chaos so the world of demons, gods, and men can be reborn anew.
They must contend with Mother Taimat, first. She is the Chaos Dragon. :)
Thanks for the damned explanation, err, explanation of the damned.
Just occurred to me, I actually did write something similar before and saved it. While not (all demons of the realm) it kind of covers that a little by classifying the types of demonic overlords who shape those realms
Overlord classifications
https://www.deviantart.com/rhuen1/art/Demon-Overlord-Classifications-by-activity-819136758