Grrl Power #784 – How to lose friends with alien cuisine
I’m not really sure what Sydney’s goal was here. Buuuuut… basically what happened was after spending maybe an hour with NdGT, in Sydney’s mind, she jumped straight from “I know this guy because he’s famous and is now an acquaintance of mine” to “We’re both famous and he’s super interested in hearing about my travels and travails in space, therefore we’re best friends and sometimes friends prank each other.”
If you’re just joining us or forgot what Grakz is, see this page, and this follow up page and the one after that.
TL:DR; basically it’s super hot alien food that’s ten times hotter on the way out.
Neil can handle his heat, but the surprise factor of Grakz probably caught him a little off guard.
I don’t know how Sydney paid for the Grakz, but after all the traffic that dude’s food stand got after those videos went viral, he was probably happy to comp her a to-go container.
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. Feel free to contribute as much as you like!
SuperheroThey're super, thanks for asking!
Meatspace ComicSeriously these are awesome. Check 'em out!
Not UpdatingNo longer updating or only updates sporadically, but definitely worth reading.
SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
The Aetherium Gateway would be more impressive if Deus didn’t have a gate that can do the same thing. (Where did he get that anyway?)
He stole/salvaged the Brane Ripper device that Sciona made from an artifact she stole from the Twilight Council, then hooked that up to the power output of a solar power collecting station to give it the necessary “oomph,” and a tracked wheel device to scribe the circular portal with it cleanly, since he knew that failing to close it off properly is a Bad Idea(tm). (He wouldn’t have necessarily known about the Mega-Nega-Squidthulus, so he might have thought the explosion was entirely caused by the unstable wormhole, but it’s a bad idea anyway).
So he didn’t achieve wormhole travel technology, so much as he acquired wormhole travel technology. His impressive feat, if anything, was figuring out a substitute for the blood magic Sciona was using as a power source.
Yes. Salvaged, not stole :) Although he did seem to ‘achieve’ some sort of wormhole technology, since he invented a device capable of directing the wormhole to the place he wanted to go, instead of it just going from Earth to Alari Prime.
He still is in possession of stolen property. And there will never be human courts involved with that only council courts. Somehow I don’t see Vampires or the Fae ever embracing that statute of limitations concept.
And as impressive as his mercenary force may be, he hasn’t the wherewithal to take on the council. Indeed he had to piggyback on Sciona’s capabilities to gather the crumbs from the council which he has. I somehow doubt that even Vale desires to fight supernatural beings who have had centuries to develop multiple contingencies for talking her specifically out should that be desirable.
I’m imagining that Deus’s first order of business on the previous trip to fractur was to begin working on a second portal.
One not built on Twilight Council hand me downs, and big enough to haul larger objects through.
Actually you can’t even necessarily argue that it is stolen property. There is no proof that the Council were the legal owners of the property either. :) It’s much easier to argue that it’s salvage. Theft requires the following:
1) The physical removal; (okay that part fits)
2) of an object; (okay that part fits)
3) that is capable of being stolen; (that part MAYBE fits)
4) without the consent; (okay that part fits)
5) of the owner; (that part might NOT fit if the Council themselves stole the items from the original owners, after killing the original owners, which is quite likely actually)
6) with the intention of depriving; (okay that part fits)
7) the owner; (see part 5)
8) of it permanently (that part might fit).
Since the Council might not be the actual owner of the items, and are just safeguarding them after they had stolen them from the original, now deceased, owners, it would then not be able to be defined as theft. :)
Also, I would not be surprised if Deus had people on his payroll in the Council as well. He knew about the Black Reliquiry in the first place from SOMEONE, right? Unless my pet theory that future Deus went back in time to young Deus to tell him a detailed list of everything that would be happening over the next 20 years or so. Sort of like David Xanatos from Gargoyles but cranked up to 11.
Oh also, with the skyripper, he took it from the rubble of a mountain, a mountain which was previously owned by someone, who stole the skyripper from other people, who in turn most likely stole it from yet another person. With the skyripper, what he definitely did NOT do was ‘steal’ it. You can even argue that Sciona ‘abandonned’ the skyripper as soon as she was done using it to get back to Alari Homeworld. Thus definitely making the skyripper very clearly salvage. :)
Are you really suggesting that if a criminal is video taped entering someone’s home and taking an object out of it, that the homeowner must prove that they actually owned said object or the criminal can’t be found guilty of theft?
In what alternate universe?
Yes, yes she is, she is a lawyer remember
Ninety nine percent of lawyers give the other one percent a bad name.
And that one percent is swimming with the fishes wearing concrete shoes
Not true. I know a lawyer who works in regulatory compliance for clinical trials. Her job includes making sure that the doctors who work with her department follow all the appropriate regulations and have the appropriate paperwork filed (even if it means she has to file it on their behalf.) It’s difficult to construe that as one of the harmful lawyers.
That said, unless you are interested in having cancer treatment research expedited, it’s difficult to construe that as countering any of the harmful ones.
Ok, sure, there is the question of “How much does she use what she knows about the law to get away with crap?” Not much. She doesn’t drive and she’s a homebody, She’s on SSRIs and has been since she was 14. She knows about the interactions that her meds have with a lot of recreational drugs, so she has never tried them.
She went to Northeastern University in Boston, Ma, USA, so through her I know a bunch of lawyers who try to improve the world rather than lining their pockets. I don’t live with any of them, so I cannot vouch for them to the same degree. I don’t know their struggles or vices. I know many of them drive, which is definitely an are I’ve known some bad lawyers to use their lawyerly knowledge to know exactly what they can get away with, which of those things is illegal, and for that subset, how to manage to get away with it. But I do know they’ve taken jobs where they don’t get paid a lot and sometimes need to crowdfund to get by, opposing lawyers who most people would agree are despicable. Their death rate is not quite as high as you claim.
Not all Northeastern University Law graduates are good lawyers, but they do have a reputation for turning out a much higher percentage of them than average. Most lawyers I’ve met graduated from NEU, so that skews my experience I know it’s not a representative sample. But I do know that not all good lawyers are dead lawyers.
Sort of. I’m not saying yes to Oberon’s example, because his example isnt what Deus did. It’s a….
strawman argument :)
See Guesticus, I don’t just say it to you :).
Actually what you described would be burglary (not theft) and criminal trespass. It’s also COMPLETELY different than what Deus did.
What Deus did was take something from the a destroyed mountain, which was abandoned by the owner. Btw, Deus couldnt even be charged with burglary (by proxy), since a destroyed mountain is not a building or dwelling anymore.
So a better comparison, if you’re comparing Deus’s possession of the Sky Ripper, would be if a hurricane destroyed a person’s house, and that person immediately afterwards abandons the house (thus abandoning everything that might have survived the destruction of the house). Then someone finds an item from the wreckage, and keeps it. No crime at all is committed there. Not theft. Not burglary. Not even criminal trespass.
Although yes, you do need to show that you owned an item and that that item was stolen in order to charge someone with theft. If you make an insurance claim, do you think the insurance company just believes you automatically about everything you say was stolen? Or do you think they require some sort of proof that you owned the item.
If someone steals something that did not belong to you in the first place, and you in fact stole, from someone else who also stole the item, then no, that someone is not (necessarily) guilty of theft. Burglary? Maybe (Burglary is the illegal entry into a building with intent to commit a crime, and that crime is usualy theft). Criminal Trespass? Yes. Theft itself? Not without more proof, no.
I don’t care at all about what Deus did and how he might or might not not be a thief. I am purely responding to your point #5 above, which appears to put the burden of proving ownership of the stolen items on the person whose home was burgled.
This is not a strawman. If you think it is you need to look up the term and gain a better understanding of what it means. This is me exploring the implications of what you claimed in your breakdown-by-the-numbers of what is required to convict someone of theft.
If you are correct, and I do not believe that you are, I can see thieves (or their lawyers) all across the country saying something like “The item(s) I removed from the residence did not belong to the owner of the residence. Therefore you can convict me (my client) of breaking and entering, but not theft.”
And this them appears to place the burden of proving ownership on the person who was robbed, ipso facto.
“which appears to put the burden of proving ownership of the stolen items on the person whose home was burgled.”
Burglary and Theft are two separate crimes. You can be guilty of burglary while not being guilty of theft. You can also be guilty of theft while not being guilty of burglary. Deus is guilty of neither with the Sky Ripper.
“This is not a strawman. If you think it is you need to look up the term and gain a better understanding of what it means.”
Yes it is a strawman. You took my explanation, then used a different scenario that bears no similarity to my explanation, and responded to your scenario. That’s what a strawman argument is defined as. :)
“what you claimed in your breakdown-by-the-numbers of what is required to convict someone of theft.”
It’s not my claim. It’s the legal definition of theft. You can literally look it up for yourself if you do not believe me, but it’s one of the things you learn in a first year criminal law course in law school. But go ahead, google ‘theft legal definition.’
“If you are correct, and I do not believe that you are,”
I am most definitely right. You can google it for yourself though.
“, I can see thieves (or their lawyers) all across the country saying something like “The item(s) I removed from the residence did not belong to the owner of the residence.”
Um….. that IS a defense that is currently used in quite a few criminal trials actually. There’s actually a bunch of case law in larceny cases about this.
“Therefore you can convict me (my client) of breaking and entering, but not theft.”
Yes. Larceny and Burglary are SEPARATE charges. If you can disprove the elements of one of these charges, but can’t for the other charge, you can be guilty of burglary, while not being guilty of theft or larceny.
“And this them appears to place the burden of proving ownership on the person who was robbed”
Yes, if the defense brings up a defense, then the plaintiff has to respond to that defense (ie, they have to prove that the defense does not fit the facts in evidence). That’s how the law works.
I think you are confusing who has the burden of proof with the idea that the plaintiff (the victim) doesn’t need to actually prove anything.
*wags tail happily*
Well said.
You forgot to mention the service to the community that Deus provided by:
1) Tidying up litter.
2) Preventing children exploring the collapsed mountain from cutting their feet on a sharp object.
3) Ensuring that a potentially deadly and dangerous artefact did not fall into the wrong hands!
Yes Yorp, you observant canine. The multitudes of good that Deus does with his every action is vast.
Except, he did it (well, technically Valeur did the doing) under the noses of Archon, who were tasked with retrieving said SkyRipper and he damn well fucking knew that!!
Except part Deux: that ‘potentially deadly and dangerous artefact’ did fall into the wrong hands
“Except, he did it (well, technically Valeur did the doing) under the noses of Archon, who were tasked with retrieving said SkyRipper and he damn well fucking knew that!!”
So in other words, he legally salvaged it before Archon could legally salvage it.
Unless you’re saying Archon was also engaging in theft.
“that ‘potentially deadly and dangerous artefact’ did fall into the wrong hands”
It only fell into the wrong hands because of the Council, and then because of Archon. Now that it’s in Deus’s hands, it’s in the right hands (and not even illegally, mind you), being used for the benefit of mankind.
No, it is not a strawman. Your explanation (Quoting you: “Theft requires the following”) was of a legal definition, not of a specific situation. Applying your points to any situation to explore how valid your definition might be is not a straw argument. Attempting to claim otherwise is just a dirty lie made either out of ignorance of what a strawman is, or out of an attempt to change the subject after you have been shown to be wrong.
“No, it is not a strawman.”
Again, yes it is a strawman, Just saying it’s not is not an argument. I explained why you made a strawman argument, and you have not bothered to refute what i said btw.
“Theft requires the following”) was of a legal definition, not of a specific situation”
I was giving you the elements of theft necessary for it to BE theft. Theft IS a legal definition. Otherwise, anything is ‘theft’ when you take anything from anyone or anywhere.
“Applying your points to any situation to explore how valid your definition might be is not a straw argument.”
No. Applying my points to a situation which has nothing to do with the scenario in question IS the actual definition of a strawman argument. A straw man is based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man”. That. Is. The. Literal. Definition. Of. Strawman. Argument.
” Attempting to claim otherwise is just a dirty lie made either out of ignorance of what a strawman is,”
Oberon, I realize that your general way of arguing is to just call people names, like you do with Guesticus, but are you listening to your arguments here? I gave you the literal definition of a strawman argument. It completely fits what you did. You don’t even have to take my word for it. Google exists.
“or out of an attempt to change the subject after you have been shown to be wrong.”
I literally havent changed the subject once – you’re the one who was making a strawman argument, then claiming I don’t know what a strawman argument is (even though I’m giving you the textbook dictionary definition of it. Just like I gave you the literal, textbook definition of theft, and what the elements of theft are in order to call something theft, and you have been unable to argue that either. Or anything I’ve refuted from your post, actually.
No, it is not a strawman. I explained to you why it is not, and you have done nothing to refute that. See how this works?
I took your explanation and applied it to a scenario. This is perfectly fair, since you cannot limit the definition of a crime to a single specific scenario. Law does not work like that, and as someone who claims to be a lawyer you should be well aware of this fact. Challenging your numeric list against a different scenario isn’t a strawman, it is challenging your numeric list against a different scenario. The point of which is to illustrate the failings in your numeric list, which cannot be expected to apply to only one scenario, since laws are not written for a single specific scenario.
Oberon, no matter how many times you say it’s not a strawman, if it meets the definition of being a strawman argument, then it is a strawman argument. Saying it’s not is not an argument – it’s a contradiction.
Monty Python had a skit on this.
You used a scenario that WAS NOT COMPARABLE TO THE ACTUAL SCENARIO. So that you can argue against that, instead of against the actual scenario or anything even comparable to it.
That.
Is.
A.
Strawman.
Argument.
Just deal with it and move on.
You fail utterly to understand what a straw man argument is. Allow me: A straw man argument is when you make the point for your opponent, and then proceed to destroy that point in order to try to discredit them or make them look bad.
I most definitely have not put words in your mouth. You provided your list of “Theft requires the following:” I did not invent the list, you did. Pointing out the flaws in your list is not a straw argument, it is pointing out the flaws in your list.
As someone who claims to be a lawyer, you really ought to have a better grasp of rhetorical tactics such as straw arguments, etc. That you so obviously do not understand the meanings behind the phrase “straw man” points to you being a fairly poor lawyer, if a lawyer at all.
Oberon you do realize that no matter how many days after this strip ended, I will keep responding if you keep saying things that are objectively wrong, right?
I literally explained exactly what a strawman argument is. And since you seem to like to simplify it, I will give you a website for debating and different types of logical fallacies.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/169/Strawman-Fallacy
Strawman Argument – Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument.
That is what you did.
“You provided your list of “Theft requires the following:” I did not invent the list, you did.”
No, actually the Code of Laws of the United States (also known as the USC) invented the list, not me. I just know what they are, because when I make a legal argument, I have knowledge of what the words mean in the law. You don’t.
“As someone who claims to be a lawyer, you really ought to have a better grasp of rhetorical tactics such as straw arguments”
I’m very sure that I have a much better grasp than you do. You regularly engage in poor debating strategies. But usually it’s ad hominem attacks against Guesticus. Anyway, read the link I gave you, instead of whatever headcanon you have for what you think terms mean, and you might improve your arguments.
“What Deus did was take something from the a destroyed mountain, which was abandoned by the owner. Btw, Deus couldnt even be charged with burglary (by proxy), since a destroyed mountain is not a building or dwelling anymore.” – Pander
I’m not convinced that the “abandoned by the owner” leg of the argument stands up. And based on the arguments above, the burglary and theft are two separate charges, so the question of whether the base is a valid venue for burglary is not relevant to whether taking something from it counts as theft.
Sciona created the Skyripper with the intent of opening a gate to Alar, through which she could bring an invading army to Earth. The side-effects of Archon’s interference sent the destination askew by 50-odd days, and Sciona apparently wandered off in a despondent fugue after realising that Alar had been scourged in that period. However, she fairly quickly found and opened a Soul Battery whose occupants were apparently of her faction, and led them back to the portal – far more quickly than one would expect for a random wander, implying that her destination was deliberate even if her optimism about what she’d find there was drained.
The mountain base did explode due to charges placed by Sciona, but it was not her actions which led to those charges being set off. Neither is there any indication that she intended the Skyripper to still be on the premises if/when she did detonate the charges deliberately. While I would agree that deliberate triggering of a destructive security device by the owner of the premises would entail abandonment of anything in that premises vulnerable to the device, that is not the case with an accidental triggering.
We must also consider the question of items known to be resistant to the device, either through protection or intrinsic robustness, which the owner knows can be put back into service afterwords. For analogy, if you set off the fire sprinklers in an office it’s a fair argument that you’ve knowingly abandoned the computers to their fate, but it doesn’t extend to the desks or anything in a filing cabinet. While we don’t know that the Skyripper is sufficiently resilient to survive having the roof dropped on it, we equally don’t know that it isn’t.
The analogy was used of a building being destroyed by natural disaster, the owner abandoning it, and a passer-by claiming something from the wreckage. Consider instead the case where the owner has only left temporarily, intending to return after they’ve obtained help and/or materials to stabilise the structure and/or recover the contents safely. Would it still be salvage rather than theft, if the passer-by took the shiny thing during the (disputed) owner’s supply run?
Now now.
Just because one of a kind wrapons of mass destruction which were on display in a specially built combination museum and armory in a remote location were removed in a robbery during which the mighy golem which guarded them was assaulted and his personality overwritten with a new one, that doesn’t mean that the people who are discovered with these horrifying banned weapons are up to no good.
The Council is a government. If they take something it’s ‘confiscation’.
Confiscation is only not theft because that’s part of the definition of confiscation – legal seizure of property.
A government agency murdering someone, then taking their personal item, is not confiscation. :) Since murdering the owner is not a legal reason to seize property.
Admittedly, there is an exception to that – when the property is being used in illegal practices, then a government can legally seize the property, even if it involves killing the owner in the process. Like when drug smugglers are killed during a government raid, and the boat which was being used to smuggle the drugs is confiscated by the government.
However, Deus is not a member of the Council, and the US is not subject to the rules of the Council, as they are a foreign government by the current definition in the book. Any rules on this would be based on a treaty between the Council and the US Government. For which we do not know any details.
Admittedly with the Black Reliquiry, I’d be hesitant to say that burglary was not committed, but with the ownership of the Sky Ripper? There’s absolutely no crime whatsoever.
Deus did not steal the Brane Ripper from the Black Reliquiry, Wyrmil did.
Deus did not steal the Sky Ripper from the mountain; the mountain was already destroyed – by Sciona’s illegal wiring of the place to explode – and Sciona had already abandoned it. Plus it was not a dwelling.
Deus did not commit burglary of the mountain fortress – again, it was already destroyed so there couldnt be any breaking and entering, plus it was not a dwelling anymore anyway, plus it was abandoned, plus there was no underlying crime.
Deus did not commit criminal trespass of Sciona’s mountain fortress – you’d have to prove that Sciona owned the land and didnt just build a fortress in some random mountainside in publically accessable property of the woods first. And again… she abandoned it anyway.
Dead wrong.
Your complicated definition of confiscation is drawn from English Law, and is defined differently by other systems.
Is the legal system of the Twilight Council likely to be decended from English law, or is it more likely to be descended from some ancient monarchy or some extra dimensional Fae statutes?
I’m not seing Anglocentrism as relevant here.
No, not dead wrong. Saying it’s wrong does not make it so.
“Your complicated definition of confiscation”
It’s not a complicated definition at all.
“is drawn from English Law,”
As are most laws in the US, and as is most international law.
“and is defined differently by other systems.”
International law is governed by principles first created in English Common law, actually, as well as most of the laws in the US coming from english common law in origin. Also, my definition was the CURRENT legal definition for confiscation, not some archaic definition. We’re not living in a communist or fascist society, or living 80 years ago, in which confiscation would have different rules for ‘legality.’
“Is the legal system of the Twilight Council likely to be decended from English law”
Although it’s acutally likely at least partially descended from English Common Law (English Common Law has been around for a LONG time), you are asking an irrelevant question, since the Council’s law on this would be constrained by its treaties with the US government, or with the Galytin government, since Deus is not a member of the Council and not subject to their laws. And the US Treaty would be based on international laws and treatises, which would get their origins in English common law.
“I’m not seing Anglocentrism as relevant here.”
It’s not anglocentrism to use legal facts. International law, and treaties with the United States, are both going to have a foundation on definitions found in English common law and in US law.
English common law is less than three thousand years old. Its new.
I would suggest that the council operates more like a vigilante police force than a government. They work with other government police forces. When they arrest or kill criminals while trying to stop them from doing criminal actions, the seized property went into an evidence locker that Sciona and later Deus broached the containment of.
Both of them took items from it.
Deus was already in the process of building his facility when the evidence locker was breached once the outer defenses were down he had someone capable of opening portals where ever he needed them, and the grown bamboo stalks ready to use without using Sciona’s brute force methods. Her methods were great for covering up his own trespass however. If Scioa hadn’t breached the facility forcing Deus to step up his plans, i think the council would have been left with a locked room mystery theft.
The part which needed the 99 lives to be recharged was not part of what wss needed to build the portal. That part was what was needed to rebuild Sciona. During the breach Deus even indicated that He had a way to get the 99 lives to recharge the item for the other guy.
Yes. Not that is relevant as Pander only said:
Your extrapolation that the Twilight Council’s law will have been unchanged since its founding 3,000 years ago is unreasonable. Laws constantly evolve over time to cope with changing needs of populations, new technologies, realisation that older principles were flawed and exposure to new philosophies and better ways of doing things. The council has many different races, factions and offworld members. So its laws would have had to adapt to changing circumstances down through the centuries.
As such it is fair for Pander to propose that during the course of the Council’s existence that its laws will have been influenced by the development of international laws in human society, and the treaties they made with the USA (and doubtless other international powers, of which the English were the previous super power).
Further I would suggest that there will have been some feedback the other way too. So the laws of England and Wales (and later the international law derived from those) may have been influenced by laws the council had. For example hanging drawing and quartering may have been inspired by some courtier, on a diplomatic mission to the council, witnessing one of their executions. Although I must point out that said example would be in the realms of written laws, rather than the common laws also under discussion.
It actually dates back to the period following the Norman conquest in 1066.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law#Origins
As such it is far from new. It is one of the oldest continuously practiced legal systems in the world.
There is formal cooperation between the Council and the USA legal system in transferring their law enforcement from their operatives to Archon’s. Which VERY strongly implies that:
1) The previous arrangement was recognised by a long-standing (if secret) treaty. We have had dialogue confirming the cooperation and the traditional way such is handled is with treaties (and secret treaties have long been used in international affairs, when needed).
2) The very act of agreeing a treaty with a body also recognises its existence as a legal body in the eyes of your government and thereby its legal system. Which is another way to say that the Council is legally a government because the USA (and doubtless other countries, such as the UK) have treated them as such.
3) The council is more than just a national government. It is comprised of many factions, including various entire races and galactic civilisations. As such the closest comparison we have is the United Nations. The one body that international treaties have given the power to declare war legally (ignoring any secret treaties we know nothing about publicly).
As such the Twilight Council is far far away from being a vigilante body. Their position in the legal hierarchy would be above that of a single nation. The exact details of which though could only be determined by examining pertinent secret treaties, their own laws, the laws of a country where any given incident occurred (none if it is in international waters) and (currently undisclosed) historical precedents for how disputes between the Council’s legal system and other nations have been handled.
I was going to respond to It Is Written, but Yorpie already said all the things I would have said, and then some additional stuff. Most importantly that it would be ridiculous to assume that laws would remain static from their founding, and that the treaty between the US and the Council can NOT be more than the age of the United States. And then he said a bunch of other stuff, all of which are very well stated, including the history of common law. :)
Thank you Yorpie :) Well said indeed!
You all miss the cahge of receiving stolen property. I know this one personally.
The charge of ‘Receiving Stolen Property’ generally involves 4 elements
1) Stolen Property
2) Is received
3) By someone who knows that it’s stolen, and
4) The Receiver intends to deprive the true owner of the property.
In the case of the Sky Ripper, 1) it’s not stolen, it’s salvaged, for the reasons I’ve mentioned elsewhere about why it’s not theft since there’s no dwelling and the mountain was already abandoned, 2) Deus is not intending to deprive the true owner of the property, since neither Sciona nor hte Council are the ‘true owner’ of the property. In fact, if the true owner is dead, Deus would be incapable of depriving the true owner. In either case, the fact that I can argue that no theft occured would also be an element in showing no receiving stolen property charge would stick as well.
It was stolen from the fucking Council vault, and SmugD knew that, because he was involved in the theft!!
Prove that Sci-fright is not the true owner
You lawyerly (huh, who knew that was an actual word? o_O) ignore the second two points because you know that those can not be argued against (and still wrong about the first and last point)
“It was stolen from the fucking Council vault,”
1) It wasnt stolen by Deus.
2) It didn’t belong to the Council in the first place if they stole it from someone else after murdering them.
3) If it’s in international waters and the Council did not own that area (and since it’s in international waters the Council CANT own that area), no one could have ‘stolen’ it. Might as well say Sydney stole the orbs. :)
“Prove that Sci-fright is not the true owner”
Okay I can prove that Sci-Fright is not the true owner. Once you abandon something, you are no longer the legal owner. That’s the proof. Abandonment.
“You lawyerly (huh, who knew that was an actual word? o_O) ignore the second two points”
I did not ignore any points. I just addressed them now, and I addressed them earlier as well but maybe you skipped over it. :)
“because you know that those can not be argued against (and still wrong about the first and last point)”
I literally just argued against it again in this very post. Successfully. :)
No, not successfully, because you are still wrong
Sci can only have abandoned the CCO if she had no intent of getting it back
The Vault, irregardless of its location, was still owned by The Council, taking something from it without the permission (or even knowledge) of The Council is theft
And never said that SmugD stole it (only because he couldn’t get to it before Woot absorbed it)
Was it ever established that the Vault itself was in international waters? Or simply the physical entrance? We don’t know how far they had to travel down that tunnel to get to the moon-pool
“No, not successfully, because you are still wrong”
You’ve yet to show that I’m wrong, so… yeah it’s successfully argued :)
“Sci can only have abandoned the CCO if she had no intent of getting it back”
No, the fact that she wired the place to explode, and was going 700 light years away with no return trip planned is abandonment. You don’t blow up a place to which you expect to return.
“The Vault, irregardless of its location, was still owned by The Council, taking something from it without the permission (or even knowledge) of The Council is theft”
I’ll give you some more in depth explanations on how property law works, but if it’s in international waters, the Council would be literally incapable of ‘owning’ the Vault. Who did they buy it from? No one? So you’re going to argue they own it by Rite of Discovery? Well… Rite of Discovery historically is defeated by Rite of Conquest. There’s no protection under international law for something you find in international waters :). You think it’s theft, because you’re not using the actual definition of theft. You’re just arguing based on ‘it’s not nice to do what Deus did’ – but ‘not being nice’ is not theft.
“Was it ever established that the Vault itself was in international waters?”
The depth of the Vault establishes that. And when it comes to burglary, it requires knowledge of the defendant that they are breaking and entering into someone’s property. If Deus thinks it’s in international waters because all logic suggests that it is, then you cannot say ‘well it’s not, therefore it’s burglary’ (let alone theft, which I’ve already established it’s not since they don’t OWN the artifacts in question – you don’t own something if you murder the owner and take their stuff).
All of this depends (not in part, but completely) on how council law works, as we know from what has been revealed about human/supernatural relations is that one thing the Twilight council has historically provided human goverments is security over Pandora’s box type Mcguffins.
Indeed Deus’s posession of any artifacts from the vault may allow human governments an opportunity to pass the buck on what to do about Deus to another …jurisdiction if you will while keeping their hands (technically) clean of the whole sordid Galatyn debacle.
Oh that brings up an entire different defense Deus could have. If he is in Galytin, then does the Council have a treaty with Galytin, where the Sky Ripper is currently? If not, you need to use Galytin’s laws if the Council wants the Sky Ripper. Which I’m going to hazard a guess would be very much in Deus’s favor, since he basically has the ruler of Galytin in his pocket. Unless THEY (the Council) would then try to steal it. :)
Oh the joys of owning your own country!
*surveys the rest of Antartica, from a point overlooking secret base*
*salutes penguin army with wagging tail*
*gives you a Yorpie Snax and a doggie coat*
Ah ha! And this is where my inquiry comes in.
As the Council seems to be some kind of international peacekeeping or policing organization, similar to the UN, and the Brane Ripper could be construed to be some sort of weapon of mass destruction, which they, in turn, confiscated from it’s previous owner, and the facility it was stored in some sort of evidence locker – though via the laws you’ve described, Deus could not legally be held responsible for the theft of it, but has salvaged it, though he has not ‘knowingly received stolen property’, as he could claim he did not know it was stolen, and of course, his defense would cite all the legal statutes you’ve described stating it was technically salvage, could the Council not, under the pretense of claiming it was some sort of weapon of mass destruction kept safe in their storage facility, and then later stolen, demand it back? Certainly, it relies on treaties Galytin has with the UN and Council in general, but I would imagine that under UN/Council law, such a demand would be perfectly feasible. And then, in the likely scenario that he declined the demand/legal request, would they not be warranted in sending in some sort of task force to retrieve it?
Sorry, a lot run on sentences and throwing a lot of what-ifs in here, but I love the character Deus, and it’s very interesting to pick the brain of someone in the know. You’re under no obligation to respond, of course, but gosh this is a fun discussion.
The Brane Ripper was a weapon of mass destruction because it was unrestrained on where it can tear a portal into. But Sciona modified the Brand Ripper into the Sky Ripper, which apparently lets the wielder control where it’s making a portal into. And Deus further made safeties on this as well, which would possibly prevent unauthorized things from coming BACK. Which seems to be a better (and safer) use than what the Council did :)
But lemme respond to what you said now from the legal aspects.
“and the facility it was stored in some sort of evidence locker […] could the Council not, under the pretense of claiming it was some sort of weapon of mass destruction kept safe in their storage facility, and then later stolen, demand it back?”
It was not an evidence locker, as the people from whom the items were seized were, based on what was stated by Ingsol, murdered by the Council. It’s not an ‘evidence’ locker – it’s just a vault. :)
As for ‘could the Council demand it back? Sure they could demand it back. But Deus would be under no legal requirements to GIVE it back, since it did not belong to the Council in the first place. The original owner could LEGALLY demand it back, but alas, they’re dead. Because the Council killed them. It would probably be more likely the Council would just buy it back instead. It’s simpler, less likely to get them into a war with supers and humans under Deus’s employ, and less likely to out them to the world by going to war with an actual country like Galytin, which isnt constrained by any treaties which the Council might have with the US on the subject of cursed items and advanced technology. And apparently there arent many things covered by that treaty on at least advanced tech,based on the argument they’re having about the Fel technology right now :).
“And then, in the likely scenario that he declined the demand/legal request, would they not be warranted in sending in some sort of task force to retrieve it?”
Honestly, it would make more sense for them to just buy it back from Deus instead. Less bloody, less risk of being made visible to the mass public, less chance of the Council being destroyed or significantly weakened in their worldwide endeavors (assuming they ever even found out Deus possessed any of the items in the first place).
“You’re under no obligation to respond, of course, but gosh this is a fun discussion.”
It’s definitely a fun discussion, yes :).
In short, Deus really doesnt have much in the way of a LEGAL obligation to give back anything to the Council, since it doesn’t fit the category of theft, and only arguably might fit the definition of burglary if you could prove that he entered in order to commit a crime therein. The only thing he might be guilty of would be criminal trespass, but even there I could see some defenses on the elements of ‘criminal trespass’ – in that Deus could argue that the Council does not actually own the area where the Black Reliquiry is located, since I’m assuming it was in international waters, which means it would not fit the element of ‘not open to the public.’ The elements of criminal trespass is when a person:
1) enters an area
2) which that person had no right to enter (that’s arguable under salvage laws in international waters)
And in the case of the sky ripper, there’s no criminal trespass, burglary, OR theft charges that could be possibly brought up against Deus, by either Sciona OR the Council (especially not the Council, in fact). And because of that, any legal request they made would be ignored.
Yes. They could ‘send in a task force’ but…. the funny thing there? The Council WOULD be committing burglary then, since it’s connected to other tech that Deus has built, on property that Deus definitely owns, in a building that Deus definitely owns, and the crime they’d be committing while breaking and entering would be vandalism :). And POSSIBLY theft, although theft is unlikely to be a crime with the Council stealing from Deus as well, since Deus doesn’t actually own the sky ripper unless he went through the legal processes involved in salvage law. Then again, since he basically rules Galytin through the proxy of the king, the king could just say that he owns it, if it came to that. :)
Yeah it would definitely make more sense for the Council to just buy it back from Deus if they ever found out. They almost definitely have the money to do that, and we’d be seeing the ‘Why not Cut Lex Luthor a Check’ trope in action.
Except, SmugD’s agent ‘acquired’ the CosmicCanopener on US soil, which means he (or she) is guilty of transporting stolen property across international borders (may or may not get bumped up to smuggling depending on how she got it out of the US)
Nope. Just because something is on US soil does not make the US government owner of it.
If you find something in international waters, then bring it to US soil, then abandon it, it does not automatically become property of the US. I’m not sure what laws you’re using to justify that reasoning.
Also to be guilty of the crime of transporting stolen property, you must be able to prove the property has been stolen. Which you havent done.
Who said anything about the US government being the owner? Or even involved?
Did Woot legally remove the CCO from The Vault? If not, then he must have clearly removed it… illegally, thus making the item stolen property
“Who said anything about the US government being the owner?”
You did, when you mentioned that Deus’s agent acquired the SkyRipper on US soil.
“Or even involved?”
Archon is a branch of the US government, which you were quite annoyed that Deus out-salvaged.
They were ‘involved.’
“Did Woot legally remove the CCO from The Vault?”
Woot didn’t remove anything. He had no mens rea of taking the Brane Ripper from the vault – that was Wyrmil. And for all we know, Wyrmil is the original owner. Or the original owner is dead, in which case no one is the owner, and Wyrmil taking it is completely legal (although Wyrmil is not a US citizen so that’s all a moot point).
“If not, then he must have clearly removed it… illegally”
I’ve stated MULTIPLE times that it was removed legally. There’s nothing illegal about how any US citizen acquired the Brane Ripper under US law.
It was stolen by the Council from its original owner, who is likely dead.
Wyrmil then took it (while using Cooter as a host, while Cooter was ‘dead’) – which means Cooter didnt steal anything either. And for that matter even Wyrmil can be argued to have not stolen it, since the Council was not the actual owner.
Then Sciona took it from Wyrmil/Cooter, in what IS a robbery (since she did slice them in half, which is a felony).
Then Sciona used it to create the Sky Ripper. Which she used to open the portal, after wiring the mountain to explode. She was planning on exploding the mountain the entire time. So she was going to abandon the mountain fortress to get back home.
Then Vale took the Sky Ripper from the rubble of the destroyed mountain, after Sciona had already abandoned the mountain fortress AND the sky ripper.
Deus is completely legally in the clear :).
Finally at the end of all of this, someone spoke intelligently about Coot/Wyrmil. Mostly.
Even your re-description of what Deus did is a strawman argument, specifically point 5. As you corrected in your 2019 Nov 4 8:58AM post, Sciona did not legally own the Brane Ripper, she stole it from Coot/Wyrmil aka Woot. Who is, as far as we know, still very much alive, despite circumstances that would normally have been fatal. It’s plausible that there’s even up to four of them now. (Though, it feels more likely to me that the pieces would just knit back together.)
You say Wyrmil was the one who took the Brane Ripper from the Black Reliquary, but Wyrmil wasn’t even in a state to be able to make it out on their own, which was how Woot became to be a thing.
Is/was Woot the legal owner? The Black Reliquary was never somebody’s home, so the legal equivalent is probably whether it’s theft to steal buried treasure that’s protected with a spring loaded trap.
I’m sure the council wouldn’t see it this way, but I’d imagine the US court system would think it’s a pretty open and shut case. Woot is therefore the legal owner as far as recognized US law. According to https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-596-big-brother-is-watching-and-making-snide-remarks/, I believe that to be the applicable law to the extent that the Twilight Council’s rules don’t apply.
Of course, that’s largely irrelevant, since it’s in Gatlyn’s jurisdiction. According to my understanding of Gatlyn’s legal code, Deus is completely legally in the clear. Not just for this, but everything. Though, he does tend to want to be reasonable, or at least appear so.
I would suspect that if Woot were to come asking for his device back, Deus would probably be willing to cut him a deal. My guess is that probably Wyrmil wanted it to be able to get back “home”, wherever that might be. So long as he could facilitate that without compromising Gatlyn or Earth, I’d expect Deus to be fine with sending Wyrmil there.
Whether Woot would be unified on that course of action, however, is much less clear. I doubt that Coot would want any part of that. However, he’s part of a “monster” now, so he probably has a lot of things to think about, but by the time he learns where the Brane Ripper ended up and gets there, he’ll probably have thought through those things. One possible thought that could have him going along with Wyrmil on leaving Earth would be that, since he is now a “monster”, by leaving Earth he would be removing one “monster” from it.
Whether or not he has a strong super/alien army is still up for questioning. Specifically, as a superrich individual, he knows the value of staying off the radar of the authorities. He probably could’ve stolen the Braneripper himself, modified it into the Skyripper, and then used his towers and whatnot.
The fact he had all that planned out suggests he was NOT relying on a random Alari to steal/fix the thing. You just don’t put in that much effort (literally taking over a country?) unless you have a backup plan. Speaking of which, he demonstrated that his plans are a lot more… sensible… than Sciona’s. Meaning he definitely wasn’t relying on her.
Thus, allowing her to steal the Braneripper meant he was letting her take the fall for the theft. While Archon and the Council chase her trail, he’s sitting pretty on a wormhole generator. Even if they eventually do find out who possesses the Skyripper he’ll have already completed his plans. Framing the crazy alien is quite a good setup.
In Stargate terminology, he might not have invented the actual stargate, but he did invent the DHD.
Indeed, O’Nei.. er.. Pander.
To be fair, it’s probably all done with magnets.
Mirrors. It always turns out to be mirrors.
Sometimes smoke.
OK let me start again.
It is all smoke and mirrors.
Maybe magnets too.
Let me back up a bit …
I mentioned magnets because that’s what Colonel O’Neill always says when they ask what Project Stargate is about. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWFTQKM6a4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiN_nOT1Y2k
Anyone else getting annoyed with wankknobs who upload clips to UBoob with the volume set at 10% (or lower)? Thus forcing viewers to turn their speakers up, and then get ear-damage when some other program makes a sound?
Just me? :(
It’s a tad annoying, yes.
Cora was very specific that it is a very unique form of transportation, in that it “does not leave a trace to where it goes after it is closed.” Afaik, Deus went through the proper ways – including customs – both ways. That indicates it would leave a trace.
It is also worth noting that Sydney has that power a thought and a grip away. While Deus needs around a major power plant to pull it off. Luckily he does have his own little country.
Deus did NOT go through customs. He basically did what Sydney did, except he had foreknowledge of his destination and was able to place the other side of his portal inside a building that nobody would think of as a point of entry.
Are you sure? There was a whole page of him lieing that he was authorized to have what he was buying.
The guy he was talking to was the merchant he bought the stuff from. You’ll notice he wasn’t asked to show any documentation proving his claim.
And the merchant he was buying from was shady who probably didn’t care, just felt he needed to say that to cover his whateverhesitson if the Station Police show up asking questions
“Yes Officer Breakyaballs, I told him he needed authorization and he assured me he had them.”
“No, I didn’t see them, I trusted his word. I had no reason not to trust him, he looked perfectly trustworthy and honest.”
I did not see Deus say at any point that he was authorized to have the stuff. He merely asserted that he understood that his civilization needed to hit its tech milestones on its own and that customs would not be a problem.
I would think that, unless he said something more explicitly about Earth, that the individual he bought the stuff from would assume that he was not leaving the station to go somewhere that didn’t have said technology, or at least would claim to have assumed that to anyone who asked.
Actually I wonder how impressive Deus’ gate would be. It might also be fairly OP in galactic standards owing to that cheat artifact he hooked up.
Yups,just like everything else about SmugD, there is nothing impressive about his gate, it’s just a bog-standard wormhole
Well Deus is using an altered magic object of unknown origin that can rip through dimensions deemed dangerous enough that the Twilight Council had it locked up.
from what Cora said most portals seem to operate on Babylon 5 hypergates, Stargate’s…star gates, and Marvel’s jump point rules. Meaning they can be delayed, distorted, or have to be re-routed due to gravitational bodies, have to have a target receiving destination or else have a limited distance they can go and/or only work at certain points in space.
The Brane Ripper and Aetherium Causeway can both bypass most of these rules, the Aetherium Causeway apparently able to even not leave a trace on space/time after vanishing like it had never even been there, and normally requires an insane amount of psy-energy to pull off. and while Deus thanks to assistance from whatever Vale is (I am guessing at least higher end 2nd tier civilization, possibly ascended being *3rd tier* and/or eldritch…which doesn’t denote not one of those but doesn’t have to be), or other aliens on his payrole; was able to boost a magic artifact to act like a targeted portal. Sydney can pull it off at the tap of a button sort of deal with no build up of energy or sacrifice, no big dials, devices, massive ships, a thousand people sacrificing their sanity and possibly lives…just point and click.
and best of all, its just plip one of the portal off-shoot for her.
Minor nit… B5’s jumpgates just get you into and out of hyperspace. They aren’t connected to other gates.
ah yeah, but don’t they also make like a tunnel in hyperspace like a road between gates? I know its from that Rangers spin-off but they had a road inside hyperspace that if you went off of you could be lost forever in, as well as discovering lifeforms in hyperspace.
The Vorlons also tried to make a better gate, something akin to the Bran ripper to cut between dimensions for instant travel…and almost doomed the galaxy by pulling an “Event Horizon” by connecting to a primordial Hell dimension.
Most of the races used beacons to traverse hyperspace. If you went off beacon or drifted too far, you were lost in hyperspace. Techno Mages, Vorlons and the Shadows didn’t require the beacons.
The Vorlons created the Thirdspace artifact, but it opened up to a dimension whose inhabitants were unpleasant.
More unpleasant than Hyu-mons? o_O
Wasn’t that where the Shadows came from?
nah the Shadows came from a desolate waste land planet supposedly. The Third space artifact connected to something as old as if not older than some of the First Ones (somewhat implied Vorlons and Shadows were the youngest of the First One races and thus why they tried to continue to meddle in the “next generation” of galactic civilization as they were still somewhat close to it. The Third space gate inhabitants were basically demons, monstrous beings who desired death and destruction along with corruption of any life forms they encountered.
Again, sounds like you are describing Hyu-mons :P
they are like horseshoe crabs from hell,
https://mutantreviewers.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/thirdspace-1.jpg
Thousands of people sacrificing their sanity? That might happen around Sydney anyway.
[quote] “Sydney can pull it off at the tap of a button sort of deal with no build up of energy or sacrifice, no big dials, devices, massive ships, a thousand people sacrificing their sanity and possibly lives…just point and click.” [\quote]
True, but Deus only needed to scam a few aliens for knowldge and some artefacts and could do the same himself, no further levelling up needed. Sydney had the artefacts but still had to grind through a huge swarm of attack drones and three doomsday level lovecraftian planet destroyers to learn how to use her wormhole…and she hates grinding.
Yes, all Deus needed was to have members of the council he could bribe, as well as knowledge of Sciona’s activities, a portal maker on his payroll as well, piggyback on Sciona sneaking into a hidden death trap vault, then fail to get the item, wait for Sciona to acquire it, use it, then sneak into a government clean up site to retrieve it.
Build a massive power plant in a country he defacto took over, make sure to have some eldritch like being also on his payrole who could help modify the artifact into a stargate and know the address for the Fracture, and not only that but to a secluded room; have access to alien currency, purchase items he might be able to bring back to Earth, some of which likely for use in making more stargates without needing the magical artifact.
Sydney, floating ball upgrade for any reason experience is gain, push glyph only she can see, instant super portal.
or just say Deus still needs to have that giant power plant, have a room dedicated to the portal, power it up, dial the address. While Sydney has pictures and a push button.
He’s going to do a lot more than unfriend her when his ass is glowing in 8ish hours.
Fairly sure that’s the moment he did such…
And if he’s a true chili head, eventually they will patch things up and he will try again…with a smaller quantity…and try to build up a tolerance. Because spicy.
If that doesn’t happen then he’s not a real chilihead and he is unworthy of Sidney.
Wait, the Mighty Orb can leave and return to Earth safely now?
Whatever messed up the Earth entry in the orb’s history tab was related to the specific event that produced the history entry, not something about Earth in general. When Sydney opened the causeway from Earth to the Fracture, it created a safe history entry for Earth.
I was about to post, that THIS was how we now learned of that. So much for all those theories of something dangerous around Earth like a defense system targeting specifically her orbs that might have killed the previous owner.
Nope, just some static, probably caused by the time distortion, maybe. But not an issue now.
or the first owner was wounded and dieing and fleeing and did emergency warp and bypassed the safeties and hit earth at mach what ever aetherium cause was does. or landed in ocean and drowned
I am still hedging my bets less on Green Lantern ring origin or lost super armor found in a diralect space ship that crash landed on Earth millions of years ago type of origin, and more on the comedic,
they are a Nth level civilization’s children’s toy that were accidentally left behind by the kid while the family was stopping by Earth on vacation for a picnic. kind of scenario.
or she is such a being reborn in human form and the orbs are really an interface projection of her own internal power with a user’s manual and limitations; but that’s more something I’d do, so thinking toy that fell out of the stroller or kid forgot on the park bench is more likely.
My own scenario is that they were fleeing to a safe haven a few 100k years ago or longer.
The orbs were their ship. They set up residence here on earth and their descendants either didn’t make it to this era or they took a left turn at Albuquerque genetically speaking.
My guess is a branch of Cephalopoda, possibly a ancient Nautiloid.
You’re listening to StarTalk Live at the Event Horizon! Not an actual black hole, but a comic shop with that name. I am your host and personal astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and I am joined by one of the owners of Event Horizon Comics and member of Archon, The Mighty Halo herself, Sydney Scoville Jr.
I am sure that if Sydney tells Neil that can go there to find out, he will insist on coming along.
Come to think of it, do you want to give Sydney an open mike for national radio?
Oops, Sydney tell Neil that she can go there.
1. Shes luckly she was able to get back on her own.. having to somehow get someone on station to contact Cora for her to get another prickup would be an interesting conversation. Arianna and Max being red hot mad that she took such a stupid risk then Arianna coming up with a million and 1 ideas now that she has access to earths only FTL spaceship…
I think the *first* bookmark that Altus and Galen gave her was Earth.
We don’t know what caused the way-point to earth to be corrupted, or what happened to the original owner of the orbs. So it’s still pretty reckless to use a causeway without sending a remote probe through first. That’s definitely a thing I’d want in MY utility belt.
We actually don’t know that it was a waypoint to Earth – it may have been to the former planet now known as the Asteroid Belt. The glitch icon may be a clue to the fate of the former user, the disassembly of the Belt, and the orbs abandoning the aftermath and auto-piloting themselves to the nearest inhabited planet.
The orbs might even have drifted in space for millions of years on some piece of rock and only have ended up on Earth fairly recently when that rock drifted into Earth’s gravity well.
Or landed 65 million years ago even.
True, true.
But we did send a remote probe through.
Its name is Sydney.
I completely forgot that Altus and Galen gave her some ‘choice stellar bookmarks.’ Good catch!!!!
My line of thought. So here for a NdGT joke we know she can use the earth end of the causeway in both directions without harm. Weird way to do plot devices (but for Sydney to simply forget she might die is so her).
But this is a symptom of tone change. We left an alien invasion to deal with her dating life and comic store? She got time off while max is cleaning up the wreckage? I hope there is a tie-in later, cause if the focus of this comic is more on her social life then the adventure part, I’ll bail.
I’m not sure how much you’ve been paying attention. The slice-of-life stuff has been this comic’s explicit focus for a long time. The adventures are mostly there to establish the setting and provide context for Sydney’s developing social status among Archon members and civilian fans.
I am reminded of someone whose first exposure to Tenchi Muyo was seeing it on Adult Swim and first episode they saw was the Kagato climatic battle; unaware the main focus of the franchise was slice of life despite the high level powerhouses and sci-fi elements present. Man did they complain after finding the series, including its spin-off alternate universe series mainly focused on slice of life.
Heh.
That said Dave is an attentive author and pays attention when there are too many grumbles that there has been no action. So we do get back to it periodically.
Because even in a slice-of-life comic about a grocery store, someone is going to get slapped by a limp cucumber
Given Sydney’s explorations into xenosexuality, ‘prickup’ is an amusing typo.
Panel 7:
Looks like his innards finally had calmed enough to use his phone again.
I guess the icons corrected themselves when she left FROM Earth.
Also, Neal MIGHT have been a little upset when he realized she could have taken him with her!
i love the little skull inside the grakz. great old school cartoon vibes
Sydney takes kind of a big risk running through Aetherium Gateways like that. She probably should have thrown herself forwards through time by another month or three there.
After all, SOMETHING she did during her version of the trip caused her to eat 50-odd days of time dilation, whereas the rest of the team did not. The only weird space warpy things that she did (that they didn’t) was use the Aetherium Gateways, and take a trip on Cora’s ship. Sciona’s rift doesn’t seem to have cause the time problem, because the rest of the team used them (twice) and came back much earlier than Sydney, and I think we’re assuming that the Fracture gateways that Cora’s ship used also don’t cause massive time delays – which leaves Sydney’s Aetherium Gateways as the primary suspect for her loss of time.
So the question is, if it wasn’t Sciona’s Rift, or Fracture’s Gates, or Sydney’s Aetherium Gateways – then what caused the time shift she experienced on her first journey? Maybe it was the mind blowing furry shenanigans.
Pretty sure that was caused by a combination of Sciona’s runes being incomplete, and the detonation of Sciona’s self destruct explosives.
It was Sciona’s rift that caused the time jump. After going through the portal Harem started having her ‘to many of me’ experiences.
It looks like Sciona’s wormhole went through time as well as space. One end was 50+ days in the future as well as ?? lightyears across the galaxy. When the team walked from Earth->Alari they came out in the future. When they ran back from Alari->Earth they came out in their original time frame.
Ah right, the wormhole wasn’t causing delay, it was connected forwards and backwards in time so the rest of the team went ‘back’ to the correct time frame, my bad, that should have been obvious.
The fact that the team returned via Sci-frights’ collapsing portal to the same time they left whereas Sydney returned at a literal later date kinda maybe implies that it was Sci’s portal that caused the time-jump
I can see Ariana & Max are not going to be too impressed (Putting it mildly).
Did Sydney remember to pick up a set of the Universal Translators at The Fracture this time?
Did Sydney forget that she wasn’t going to causeway back and forth with Earth as a destination point owing o the navigational fuzzies?
Cora said she would hook Sydney up with some navigational waypoints, so you can safely bet for sure that she and her crew figured out how to set the waypoint for Earth…since the offer didn’t seem to imply that it would be necessary for Sydney to go back to the Fracture to set it…but if it did, well, she’d have those waypoints set. And even simply by LEAVING Earth, Sydney would automagically have that waypoint registered.
More important question. Did NdGT record the bathroom session?
Some of the effects previously described could significantly expand our understanding of plasma physics, or physics in general. Even Organic Chemistry.
I so badly want Grakz to be real because I want to try it.
You know, I’m REALLY interested in reading the bollocking that Adrianna and Maxima are going to give her when she gets back.
Why? Must have missed the part where they told her she wasn’t allowed to leave the planet (like there would be any way they could stop anyway)
I doubt Sydney was told she “couldn’t leave the planet”, but she was probably told not to use the Causeway without either an overriding need or an interstellar-policy check. When your mode of transport is a Götterdämmermcguffin that “could ignite an interstellar war” if the wrong people see it, it’s not something that you want to be exposing to public view unnecessarily.
I just want to see Arianna’s face when she realizes that.
That was supposed to be in reply to Madock345 but got put up as a separate comment.
Uh I’m pretty sure Cora told Sydney a pocket sized aetherium gateway generator was freaky level tech that would garner much unwanted attention.
Also, she should have been told to NOT reveal her pocket wormhole capability.
Aaaannd she just live streamed her interplanetary jaunt.
yep, some aliens in the crowd on the outside of the comic shop, probably saw it, recorded it, and now sharing with friends, family, concerned government agencies, freaked out ascended beings whose own tech is supposedly one level below what Sydney is towing around with her, all now have a double target on Earth.
I mean, a planet whose inhabitants have developed weird magical offshoots? Also developed individuals who seem to have the powers of those magical offshoots but compressed together in less vulnerable packages. A small handful of these supers rated as hero classes just took down in five minutes, including blasting down a ship from an S-class interplanetary threat (we assume S-class threat going by Cora’s reaction of how other planets would treat an outbreak of them; nuke the site from orbit),
and then learn somehow has possible Nth level ultra tech as well.
Earth is going to become a household name and a (Area of Interest) real quick to anyone in the galactic empire and below levels, possibly even a few concerned *read get in everyone’s business like they’re the concerned parents of the galaxy* 3rd tier civilization individuals.
It all fun and games until the Federation, First Ones, Old Ones, Ancients, Galaxy Police, The Ascended Council, and maybe one or two Q/Reality Admins in disguise watching from the shadows…show up.
Or they could just nope on that headache and dec;are Earth unsuitable for invasion due to the undue risk involved….you wouldn’t start a war against a power that has you outmatched a ludicrouzillion to one, now would you?
Never go to earth. No. Not even then.
Given that the sound effect was audible inside the comic church, you’re right. Frankly this could have been really devastating to Earth, and Sydney had no idea that it wasn’t a dangerous thing to do. Sydney should have jetted up to at least low orbit before doing such a thing. And being in orbit would have prevent that whole livestreaming thing also.
Uhhhhhhhhhhh….. question… did Sydney suddenly somehow overcome the aetherium causeway orb setting’s inability to go to Earth? ’cause that was kind of a major sticking point here…
Whatever messed up the Earth entry in the orb’s history tab was related to the specific event that produced the history entry, not something about Earth in general. When Sydney opened the causeway from Earth to the Fracture, it created a safe history entry for Earth.
Considering she left from Dirt, if Cora’s crew hadn’t helped her fix that glitch, having a new, fresh, departure point probably sorted it
The original destination setting (where the Nth Civ guys dropped the orbs for Sydney to find) was not directly in front of her own comic shop. Presumably what we saw was a browser history rather than a list of favorites, so she can go back to wherever she’s been as long as she doesn’t click that particular instance.
“Make friends by thermo-chemically melting their intestines and sphincters” prooooobably doesn’t work, Syd.
Okay, so there may be a few exceptions.
But still, flaming chemical restroom warfare is not an advisable “friend” greeting.
Sure, other portals and interstellar travel methods exist, but Sydney can just pop on over to the Fracture, just like that? Imagine if she could actually work the math to open a causeway to wherever she wants, rather than relying on “bookmarks”.
Even without the full functionality, she can open a portal back to Earth, and specifically to her store, so she can’t be caged except in that pressurized cell they used for Opal. Even then, it’s just a matter of using Mr. Bubble ’til the air gets thin, freshening up with the airifier (or whatever she calls the green orb), and portaling out inside her own little pressure gradient.
But there is one way left to keep Sydney contained: MITTENS.
Mittens are her only cryptonite.
But yes, she could theoretically bookmark a causeway between her home, her parents’ home, the comic shop and her room at Archon. No more rush hour. She wouldnt even have to memorise the regular air traffic flight path to work.
Although who knows if one of those is opened up in-atmosphere. >.> Sydney wasn’t eager to find out last we saw. xD
Anyone else think Sydney is going to doctor her weapons-grade spaghetti sauce up with a bit o grakz now that she has access to a supply of the stuff?
Looks like Sydney got her taste of fifteen minutes of fame….!
you mean aside from being at the press conference for the revelation of the existence of super-heroes; while she has been a tad busy and time jumped to take advantage of the fame till now, she has already dealt with paparazzi and signings at the old comic shop.
Did she seriously just open a causeway from inside the atmosphere AND gravity field of an inhabited planet? How many health&safety and space traffic regs did she just violate? Leaving aside that her ability to open causeways most likely was NOT declassified by Archon…..
A Causeway is NOT the same thing as a warp drive, a warp gate nor a worm hole
True, but since the normally-encountered ways aetherium causeways get opened involve ridiculously resource-expensive and/or dangerous techniques, I could see their use being regulated:
“Do you know why I pulled you over?”
“No, officer.”
“Xevoarchy Transit Regulation Sigma-Psi-42-Fnord, prohibits the opening of aetherium causeways within 5 light-minutes of an unshielded population center without filing Form MD-OK-W40k, “Authorization for mass sacrifice of sentient beings” and/or form OMG-WTF-BBQ, “Authorization for operation of stellar-class energy source in or near a functioning biosphere.” May I see your license, registration, and paperwork, please?”
Tell someone you used a magic wand to open a portal between dimensions and even planets and no one bats an eye; tell them the magic wand is actually advanced technology and they start citing wormhole and warp drive rules.
Zack Tilly
Have a re-read of the above page. Sydney had exited the building, and was thereby out of sight of the camera’s/any witnesses inside,* before opening the causeway. Panel 3 indicates that the sound of it opening managed to filter through the stained glass window. Having arrived on an alien space ship and being within an easy flight range of it (or her own quarters in the Archon HQ), nicely accounting for the half an hour lapse, there is nothing giving away what she actually did.
And who would think that someone would abuse interstellar travel just to pick up a snack? ;-)
* and we have no reason to assume she did not find a suitably hidden position outside too. It would not make sense to exit the room to avoid witnesses only to open it up in front of a different bunch outside.
You can see her, her shield, and the gateway through the stained glass window. She definitely did not find a suitably hidden position.
not to mention there had to be people outside. There is no possible way there weren’t people in the parkinglot, nearby buildings, driving the street, across the street, ect… I could go outside right now at 4 am and I will find five cars driving by in less than 3 minutes or maybe even a person walking their dog or something; people are fricken everywhere even in small mid-western cities. Let alone middle of the day at a shopping center where two celebrities are talking to each other.
For those readers who read the crossover novel (link on the sidebar) the eighth book (“Repercussions”) in Marion Harmon’s “Wearing The Cape” series was released on kindle last night.
Are we gunna not even mention she just popped back over there like it was no issue but she needed a ride to get back to earth?
This was covered thoroughly in the first page of comments.
Just in case they don’ read the first page (many don’t even realise that this is not the first page of comments)
When Sydney first left Dirt, her team mates had no way of knowing if she could get back on her own, which is why Dabbles arranged with Cora to go pick her up
Sydney figured out that she could maybe warp home, except, she wisely didn’t trust the icon so went somewhere else. And it’s been speculated that Cora’s crew helped her figure out how the menu worked and either fixed the glitching one or removed it entirely, and then when she left from Dirt, she had a nice new, safe, return coordinates
I am going to say right now that Neil deGrasse Tyson did not eat that food and instead studied it and found the high capsaicin level and unfriended Sydney because he was not happy with her suggesting he eat it. There is no way a scientist studying space would consume an important specimen of alien culture.
‘This isn’t food, it’s a power source!”
Isn’t all food a power source (for human bodies)?
On the other paw offending an important contact, who can provide you with an unlimited supply of such specimens, by refusing to eat a culinary treat offered is also not something a person of Neil deGrasse Tyson’s experience is likely to do.
A conundrum easily resolved by popping half of the sample into an improvised specimen bag whilst sampling the remainder.
The pain of grakz easily explaining the abandonment of this invaluable contact. Some things are just not worth experiencing even to expand knowledge of the universe! Well at least not in the immediate aftermath of said trauma.
considering what some scientists have put themselves through (including eating glass marbles and gravel…among other things), just to gain some knowledge.
In this case it seems more the prank part and a spurt of the moment response to unfriend her, probably re-friend her as soon as his ass is no longer on fire. Also his own fault for eating alien food he’s never seen or heard of before; Sydney too.
Agreed. In his defence though, clearly he would not have sampled it without Sydney assuring him that she had sampled it and that a super high tech device had confirmed it was “safe” for humans.
As for Sydney she was hungry and without prospect for getting food from any other source at that time, plus faced with the temptation of a super spicy food. Likewise offset with the testing devices assessment. Admittedly taking a leap of faith that it could assess humans properly. However Sydney would have recalled that aliens have known about humanity for at least 3,000 years, so it was not an unreasonable judgement call to have made in her circumstances. A civilisation capable of building a Dyson sphere should be able to show ‘species not known’ or ‘unknown compatibility’ reliably enough, had that been the case, rather than just giving a warning that the food is hot.
NdGT actually likes spicy food. He’s the only person I’ve seen make it all the way through Hot Ones without complaint. He would totally eat that. The aftereffects, he might not care for.
↑This↑
Got a question, because Sydney has been gone for a few months wouldn’t that mean we are almost caught up to where the comic starts? I mean in the third page she even says “let me go back a few months” and now it’s been a few months?
“A few” could mean anywhere from 2 to 5ish, and is actually unlikely to mean 2 since she would have said “a couple” instead. The time skip Sydney experienced was roughly 1¾ months, and while time did pass between her recruitment and the battle in the mountain base, I doubt it was enough time to push the total much past the two-month mark.
Besides, one of the few things we know about that future Sydney is that she’s attained the rank of Corporal. I don’t feel like she’s making a ton of progress towards earning that honor yet.
Aye. On all but your final conclusion. Her battle honours alone more than justify the rank bump. Albeit she has done plenty of counterproductive stuff in her general conduct. But at the end of the day the military highly rates battle success and more than one has been swung by Sydney’s presence.
Vehemence would likely have killed Maxima and defeated ArcSWAT, in their very first engagement, were it not for Sydney. Likewise the Perrywinkle Butt Sniffer may have taken out Maxima with his countering power, had Sydney not figured it out.
I will skip her various other accolades and go straight to her ability to overcome and escape from an enemy force capable of laying waste to an entire planet! I think it entirely appropriate to give enough of a rank increase to keep such an individual happy and feeling appreciated, even setting aside every other positive to such a promotion.
These though do include giving Sydney some limited command ability in an emergency. She already more than demonstrated her talent by assuming that role when required (Maxima having been aggroed by Vehemence’s aura and thereby not being of sound mind). And there are certainly circumstances where petty individuals will refuse to respond to perfectly sound advice if given by someone of insufficient status.* Be that within military/police organisations or from the government or simply the general public.
Corporal I think is just about right for Sydney. Not so high that her various abuses could be too damaging. But high enough that she can assume command, in an emergency, when there is not a more experienced NCO or officer to paw. Plus she would hate the burdens of rank that came with anything much higher.
* I have just watched a video about Mers-el-Kébir, a North African port where the strongest elements of the French navy were stationed when the Vichy French government had negotiated an armistice with Nazi Germany. As Britain did not want to risk the French fleet from falling into Nazi hands, they sailed a fleet there to negotiate with the French Admiral present. Offering various terms (including the French fleet sailing to the then neutral USA). On pain though of being sunk if they failed to accept any of the various options offered.
The French Admiral though refused to even meet the British negotiator (appointed for the role as he spoke fluent French), because he felt affronted to speak to a mere captain! Thus resulting, after hours of attempts to negotiate with him by various signals, in the sinking of all but one of his command and the needless loss of thousands of French crew.
Prowess in battle alone doesn’t earn rank.
Responsibility and trustworthiness in command are needed to earn rank.
Prowess in battle gets you medals (usually posthumously, and, in Sydney’s case, posthumourously :P )
We have seen that Archon are testing her responsibility in small steps (for instance giving her gun in a disassembled state and not allowing her to use it until she had mastered how to assemble it correctly). Early on Maxima saw results from this. She had a couple of talks with Sydney about the responsibility of super powers, and ordered her not to blaze away with the PPO, until she had been better trained.
Which saw the ultimate test of whether she would respect that command and show restraint and responsibility by being thrown into the middle of a violent and deadly battle (remember that Sydney almost died by being backstabbed right at the outset). A total novice and caught by surprise, it would have been entirely understandable to have lapse and responded then (or later in the battle) with deadly force. Yet Sydney showed iron discipline.
Battle does not just show prowess, it allows other personality traits and flaws to be exposed in the most vital circumstances of a life or death struggle! Sydney passed that with flying colours.
The way to find out if someone can show trustworthiness in command is to actually give them the opportunity to command and see if they handle that well. Which would require giving her a rank above ‘recruit’. Here her battlefield experience certainly does come into play as it indicates that she is entirely capable of assuming command from a Lieutenant Colonel, and bringing the biggest super battle humanity has ever seen to a successful conclusion.
Which justifies a higher bump up in rank than may otherwise be granted, don’t you agree?
Honestly not my favorite update, with the way it ended.
Just looks like sacrificing established character for the sake of “funny” — Sydney may be impulsive and distractable, but she’s not stupid and she’s not that much of a bargain-basement troll.
Personally I think it is well within Sydney’s established character. She is impulsive, does like to make practical jokes (teasing Heatwave about the voices from within the phone springs to mind) and is as flawed as any other human in making errors of judgement.
As with many of us who have a passion for food, Sydney doubtless likes to share any new finds. In her overwhelming enthusiasm at being able to share her knowledge of the universe with someone who has a passion about that, she mistakenly assumed he would reciprocate in being enthusiastic (or forgiving) about her love of hot and spicy.
A troll’s motivation is to cause anguish, emotional distress or provoke outrage or anger. Whereas Sydney was making a (highly misjudged) attempt to bond with Neil. Whereas a troll would be laughing at being unfriended (“result!”) we can clearly see that Sydney is dejected. That was not what she had been hoping for at all!
Any page which shows a hero making an understandable mistake adds character. It shows that they are not flawless. Whilst you and I would not have taken such an action, it is easy to see how Sydney would have gotten swept up in the moment, overwhelmed by having met and impressed an idol.
I too have experienced a stumbling ineptness upon meeting one of the greatest fantasy artists. Tongue lolloping around and making an utterly inane comment! What we might visualise doing when we meet an idol, and how it can actually play out are two very different things. The giddy head rush can easily mess things up badly.
Sydney sure got over her fear of the ‘staticy’ Earth waypoint awfully quickly and for a really trivial reason.
Her fear was when she only had her own judgement to go by and no hint of what it might be for. Since then Sydney has gained some working knowledge of the power in question and has been able to speak to both the captain of the ship who rescued her and Dabbler. Thus expanding her knowledge base and allowing her to make a more informed opinion.
Plus her own travel may well have created a nice clear Dyson sphere waypoint to choose (either in addition to the questionable one or replacing it).
All that aside though, yea, Sydney will indeed act impulsively and for trivial reasons. That is unlikely to change. A lot of lecturing may slightly moderate her nature, but could never negate it.
Oh, she has? She has used it exactly once. And immediately prior to using it this one time she had decided that the ‘staticy’ waypoint which she assumed was Earth was dangerous in some way, since the orbs were abandoned underwater with no owner around. What exactly might have changed her mind about that in her zero additional uses of this capability?
You’re purely speculating about any information Cora and/or Dabbler might have given her, as if this happened it was certainly not shown in canon. And why either Cora or Dabbler would have anything to share of any relevance about Sydney’s Nth tech orbs is even more speculation added to the prior speculation. It would be yet another case of how Dabbler was supposed to be able to figure out more about a unique item than the owner of that item itself knew, after Archon illegally arrested and detained Krona and examined her reality shifter device: Really Bad Writing™.
We know that we do not see every minute of Sydney’s day. Further we get enough complaints from whiners when there is too much info dump, via dialogue or otherwise. Which means Dave perfectly understandably avoids explaining every detail or tying up every loose end. So it is entirely reasonable for me to point out that Sydney has been in the position to gain more information in a number of different ways. Plus we have long seen that she is constantly asking questions and observing everything in her environment, as her attention flitters all over the place.
As such what I have offered is well informed speculation based on the circumstances the character was in and her established personality. There is no way that Sydney would not have asked many questions of both Cora and Dabbler. Plus who would not ask ‘so where are we, and how far away is Earth?’, which would most easily have been answered by showing Sydney a display of the chart and route they were taking.
This is the working knowledge I had in mind, as it was allowing Sydney to relate her own navigational information (both that which we saw, in terms of icons and anything else her own navigation suite will have displayed once she tried to cross reference the two), and what she saw in her trip, to whatever Cora may have told or shown her.
Plus you are, as ever, failing to connect the dots between the various things which have been shown in canon. If a normal human is seen in New York in one scene but later in Paris, the typical viewer fills in the gap with ‘oh, she got on a plane’ rather than protesting ‘how did she walk from New York to Paris?’
Here the author has shown us that Sydney has been exposed to extra sources of information, to shore up her uncertainty and/or find a workaround to the weird icon. With the result indicating that she did manage to do that one way or another. It would only be bad writing if the character did not have a way of gaining this knowledge. Halo had the means the motive and the opportunity to resolve the issue. To argue that ‘if it was not shown then it did not happen’ is simply pedantic.
If you do not like my proffered explanation, then come up with your own. There are many stories written with deliberate gaps to invite the reader or viewer to visualise their own take. Sometimes leaving even something vital like the resolution of the story open. You are smart enough that you really do not need to have the story dumbed down and every step explained in an ABC fashion!
On top of everything though the scene played out really funny. Whereas the pace would have been broken up badly by an insert about how she overcame her prior issue. As a comedy comic the laughs take priority!
I already did, in the post your replied to: Really Bad Writing.
Not only do we see clear examples of this fairly frequently, but it is the Occam’s Razor explanation which requires the least effort to arrive at the correct conclusion.
“after Archon illegally arrested and detained Krona”
She went under duress, but accompanied them; she was not arrested, Just threatened with it.
As I mentioned during that story arc, if you are going under duress, then it is an illegal detainment. You can not VOLUNTARILY go with someone under duress. Being ‘Under Duress’ is legally antithetical to ‘volunteering.’ So even if it wasn’t an actual arrest, it was an illegal detainment because of the duress.
Just as a note, the legal definition of duress is where a person performs an act as a result of violence, threat, or other pressure against the person. Duress negates a person’s consent to act, and consent is required for something to be voluntary.
She wasn’t under duress
There are two types of duress – physical duress and duress by improper threat. When Maxima planted her hand on Krona’s shoulder and insisted that she was coming with them, and would not be taking no for an answer, that was duress. This was compounded when she said threatened to put Krona in handcuffs.
If I come up to you with four large men surrounding you and said ‘I’d appreciate it if you come with me to this detainment facility. In fact, I insist on it. Also if you make any moves I don’t like, I will also have to cuff you’ then one of the men then plants their hand on you to make sure you don’t flee, and you say ‘O-okay.’ – that’s not free will. That’s duress.
No, Maxi placed her hands on Kronachrome’s shoulder to make sure she was paying attention (and to stop playing with reality)
At no time did Maxi threaten to put Kronachrome in handcuffs, she said she would have to cuff her if she tried to alter Maxi’s jacket (which wasn’t even her jacket), ‘cuff’ meaning to ‘clip her around the ears’
Kronachrome was still free to say no, she chose to say yes because she wants to know how her powers work just as much as anyone else does
“No, Maxi placed her hands on Kronachrome’s shoulder to make sure she was paying attention (and to stop playing with reality)”
No, she said she was going to have to insist on Krona returning with her, regardless of her status as a Vi. Read the page again. That is duress if Krona felt unable to leave on her own and NOT go back to Archon HQ at that point.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-527-when-i-say-favor/
Even the TITLE of the comic strip implies she’s ‘not asking Krona to come – she’s telling that she MUST come.’ That’s what ‘I insist you return to me to the base’ means. It’s not ‘would you kindly possibly come to the base if it’s not too inconvenient?’ Look at Krona’s widened eyes when she places her hand on her shoulder. Does she LOOK like she’s thinking she’s free to go? No.
“At no time did Maxi threaten to put Kronachrome in handcuffs, she said she would have to cuff her if she tried to alter Maxi’s jacket (which wasn’t even her jacket), ‘cuff’ meaning to ‘clip her around the ears’
No. She was not saying she was going to ‘clip her around the ears.’ She was going to cuff her, which means ‘I am going to put you in handcuffs.’ Are you really saying that what Maxima was saying was ‘Don’t make me hit you?’ She’s a cop. She has cuffs. She’s talking about handcuffs.
“Kronachrome was still free to say no, she chose to say yes because she wants to know how her powers work just as much as anyone else does”
Again, look at my scenario, which is pretty identical to what happened between Maxima and Krona. Would an average reasonable person in that situation think they’re free to say no? No. They wouldn’t.
OK Sydney I have memorised that facial expression, in panel 5. If you ever use it on me my answer will be “no!!!”
Likewise for any offer of Grakz. I prefer hotness to be restricted to the mouth only. Anything requiring the rectal application of several gallons of ice cream is definitely not for canine consumption!
Oops, panel 6 not 5. The second to last one.
Makes sense that Sydney would go ‘to the source’ to ask what Fracture was made of and how it was possible to walk around on it, she just took the opportunity to play a prank on her new bestie :P
Just surprised she found someone in such a short amount of time willing to give her answers…
maybe there is an information desk for tourists at the space port.
I can actually see Neil a couple of day’s later re-friending her once he got over the pain and thought about the glowing plasma motes. Just because those are freaking awesome and defy known physics. I mean really how can we make plasma motes and survive the experience.
Agreed. Plus once the memory of the pain starts to dull the cost will seem less compared to having a friend who can take close up photos of other stars, planets and alien megastructures!
But how it played out on this page was really funny. Poor dejected looking Sydney. Although doubtless nowhere near as bad as Neil felt!
Am sure Deus’s former partner was a robot…
Deus Ex Machina!
Sydney, I love you, but it you kill Neill DeGrasse Tyson with your spicy food fetish, I will hate you forever.
She’s not killing him.
…
Merely maiming.
To quote from “Return of Jafar”:
Abis Mal: Genies can’t kill…you said that!
Jafar: You’d be surprised what you can LIVE THROUGH!
Exactly! :)
Did Neil unfriend Sydney before or after output session?
It’d dark outside when they’re closing up the shop. Presumably this is several hours later. I think we’re meant to presume it’s after the firework show.
Is that guy in front of NeilyT sporting a reverse Monk-do? o_O
Instead of being bald on top with hair around the sides, he has hair on top and bald around the sides
A lot of lawyer talk on these comments bringing back up what was discussed in great length already during the taking of the Bran Ripper, but can’t keep track of who is responding to who due to the continuing despite stopping reply function of the above; so posting some points.
First: Does the council count as a legal entity? As in do they legally exist? They appear to be a clandestine association of different groups agreeing on personal policing of their own members as a sort of mutually assured destruction should any one group taking part in the council, and total destruction for any refusing to that falls under their personally perceived criteria of jurisdiction recognized only within their own ranks. In other words it is no different than a council of crime syndicates meeting and deciding what falls under each’s territory and not to expose each other to the authorities. Any agreement they make with one another and the government is stickily off the books and unofficial.
So if this is the case they are legally a non-entity, and you can’t steal from a non-entity. You can steal from an individual of the council if they can prove the items taken were their personal property….and are also recognized citizens. Maxima pretty much out right stated the vault was not something the government knew about. It had no legal coverage. It existed off the grid, and effectively taking from it was the same as finding abandoned property, salvage. Which is why they had so much protection for it (one reason) that would work on EACH OTHER, and required multiple council members to be present to access. Basically they left a vault of weapons outside of any individual’s property claim and put death traps around it to keep anyone who found it and each other out.
In the end, can’t steal from what legally doesn’t exist. Yeah, Deus would be endangering personal relations with them, and possible “mob hits” but any legal action would be publically viewable, and these clandestine groups stay out of public eye, so not legally protected.
another point, while someone said it in passing, I feel inclined to bring it up.
Fae Law. The idea the council is operating not by any human legal system internally, but by Fae Law…
fairy law is complicated…but mostly deals with concepts of hospitality and territory. When it comes to personal property…the Fae tend to be on the idea of whomever can take it, hold it, and stop others from taking it from them; gets to keep it. This is why Fae think nothing of robbing humans any random thing they want up to and including your children. The Fae may get their friends and family involved if you rob them *mostly because they might perceive it as an affront to their hospitality if you did it under the pretense of being a guest or swindling them out of it*, but any other case it is a personal matter and not something the Fae society will hold against one another to simply take something; as it becomes the obligation of the one who took it, to then prevent the previous owner from being able to take it back, and the previous owner has it as a matter of personal pride and status in their society to show they are not someone to mess with by taking it back and making an example of the thief.
So Deus would have basically been shown to have made a mockery of the previous owner, who would have to make it a personal vendetta but no one has any legal obligation to get involved, so not court cases, Fae legal system, Fae cops busting down the doors, nope; just the previous owner coming for it and Deus having to stop them till they either admit defeat or keep stopping them…possibly even avoiding any sore loser curses.
However under Fae law even, given the vault was more a *no one is aloud to touch this stuff, we all agreed on it*, no Fae has any obligation to go after him unless they think they can steal it from him and prevent the crime bosses style council members from finding out so they aren’t ganged up on…or make it easier and just buy it from Deus. Which is what he is clearly going for. After all he has to have his own contacts to sell the items he took; those who would know about them, want them, and getting them secretly like this to by pass their own kind’s little restrictions on each other.
In short: I want it, I’m going to take it, and its your job to try and stop me or take it back. That is the extent of Fae law.
The fact the council is made of non-fae supernatural critters is probably the only reason the Vault even exists and is so well protected, and can gang up on the Fae who would think nothing of sneaking in there and making a game of stealing the stuff from each other, because Fae are sociopaths.
Okay I rambled a bit, making it shorter:
The Council Doesn’t Legally exist.
Most of the members aren’t citizens,
even for the ones that are, it was established that no one individual in the council OWNED any of the items in the vault. The vault was a safeguard from each other as well. So none of the items can be classified as personal property. The vault was thus also no individual’s private property either. The traps were the main way of keeping each other out of it, and requiring multiple council members to even access it.
In other words, off the grid, no legal owner vault. Salvage. Just because that shack in the public woods is being used by some clandestine group made up other groups cooperating for mutual protection to store their guns and they put land mines around it, doesn’t mean they can pursue any legal action if someone manages to find a way around the mines and steals the guns; especially as in this case those guns aren’t registered to any citizens.
on my last part; Fairies are assholes, and they have asshole laws.
Just because they are clandestine to the general masses doesn’t mean they are not known to the governments of the world (at least, the parts that actually run the world)
Just because they have ‘asshole laws’ that you (clearly) don’t agree with, doesn’t stop them from being laws
Many people consider the speed limit to be an ‘asshole law’, and that it shouldn’t apply to them, and get cereally pissed off when the cop pulls them over and issues them their tenth ticket in two days (“Why do they keep picking on me? Don’t they know I pay their salary? Well, if I paid taxes that is, stupid asshole law requiring me to pay taxes!”)
Being known does not denote legal protection, it denotes the governments making under the table deals and breaching their own laws for their sake, like imprisoning their own citizen to appease said group despite not being able to officially charge them with a crime on the public record.
Fae are under their own laws allowed to abduct human babies so long as they replace them with another baby.
Fae are allowed to eat humans so long as the human isn’t currently under the protection of another fae, because then and only then it would be a breach of fae hospitality.
-for example-
not exactly equal to speeding laws.
I know its a page late and probably won’t be seen but felt need to emphasize this.
Humans aren’t required to obey Fae law; except the Fae think they are.
Under Fae law a human is only recognized by their relation to the Fae, and legally would only be one of the following.
1: Slave
2: Pet
3: Livestock
4: Wild Game
with no more rights than a dog, sheep, or other domestic or wild animal depending on if Seelie or Unseelie and the specific sub-set of Fae involved. Fae don’t recognize humans as equals in anyway, shape, or form; as humans are finite biological beings the same as animals.
So any insistence by humans to follow their laws is done so under the threat of retaliation by the Fae; which only recognize power as a source of authority; (there is a reason Fairy Queens and Kings are the most powerful ones; because those are the ones able to claim such a title and hold sway over other fae; heritage, wealth, and charm be damned when power comes to play).
This is reminding me to play Changeling: The Dreaming again.
I feel like NDT wouldn’t be that spiteful.
I think it’s a bad idea to open aetherium causeways on tv, due to secrecy.
I didn’t know Neil DeGrasse Tyson was on Hot Ones. Cool.
Somehow, the idea of giving ANYONE, much less a celebrity with a large fan base, something to eat that’s 10 times hotter on the way out than it was going down in the first place, just seems, to my own ADD addled mind, like a Bad Idea(R)
what was “half or twice the size of the moon”?
I’d guess she’s talking about Fracture Station. “A moon-sized city and shipping port, according to DaveB‘s under-page commentary, so right in the (geometric) middle of Sydney’s estimated range.
I learned of NdGT on The Big Bang Theory. The “Neil unfriended me.” is so Sheldon Cooper.