Grrl Power #622 – Whatever the opposite of Gas-X is
“Hey team, let’s split up so we can search this abandoned bunker faster. If you find anything, signal with a massive explosion that threatens to cave the whole place in on top of us…”
…is not quite the instructions Maxima gave the team. But that’s how Dabbler would paraphrase if asked to repeat them. She’s just frustrated she hasn’t been able to use much lethal force lately.
You know how when you’re playing a video game and killing wave after wave of evil gangsters, then a few hundred evil corporate security guards and then two dozen battalions of evil PMC soldiers and by the end of the game you’re the technically the hero, and you’ve saved the day, buuuuut you’re also history’s greatest mass murderer because the body count in most action video games is in the thousands? That’s a lot like most of Dabbler’s previous adventures.
Don’t worry, they were all bad.
I like the idea of explodey gas, but I’m not sure it would be more effective than just firing a rocket or a grenade in the room. Obviously, it’s not spraying aerosolized kerosine in there, it’s Dabbler’s own special super science blend. But again, you can bet Dabbler’s grenades drop the bass like DJ Davvincii. Get turned up the death! At least I could make the excuse that the gas gets into all sorts of nooks and crannies and when it explodes it’s like 10,000 years of erosion in 1/10,000th of a second.
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boom gas
Not completely gas. It likely has to be mixed with a fast-solidifying liquid to make the foam. Foams always have gas pockets throughout their structure –no single gas can be expected to reliably produce both the structure of the foam and also make gas pockets. Yes, I know that means maybe there are two gases in the cartridge, but then there is another problem, in that when a gas polymerizes to become a solid, there is roughly a 1000:1 reduction in volume. It is not credible to think that that small cartridge can yield as much foam as portrayed in this comic. Meanwhile, a liquid that becomes a foamed solid won’t have that problem. Obviously both the gas and the fast-solidifying liquid should be flammable (or chemically unstable) if we want to initiate a decent explosion.
I should add that the overall explosion is likely greater than what could normally be expected of Dabbler’s weapon alone, because of enemy ammo (like the grenades on page 471 /archive 2301 and page 481 /arc 2343) getting set-off.
All sounds good, if made from standard chemicals available on Earth.
However if you factor in the manufacture of metamaterials and things with weird quantum properties, which we have not yet discovered, then things change. Because those are available to Dabbler. Not to mention tweaking things with magic (not to say that the gas is magical, just that part of its development process could have included it).
Well, there is an actually simpler technological possibility, since we already know Dabbler can teleport stuff “from her lab”. Imagine a big tank of certain substances in her lab. Imagine that the cartridge she fired simply teleported stuff from that tank as it shot through the air. Result: small cartridge causes big room to fill with foam. Yes, we know she has access to fancy materials. But that doesn’t mean she must go that route, when simpler/easier options are available.
I like the idea of using a mini-portal in the cartridge as a spray nozzle, that should work.
However, I wonder about the wisdom of Dabbler firing off a projectile with an open link to her lab, unless it’s purely one-way. Even a self-destruct mechanism isn’t reliable for a target with super/magic abilities who can grab it out of the air or magically freeze it open or something, and shove something back through the other way.
Does there actually have to be a liquid involved or could it simply be reverse sublimation of a gas? It being such would, of course, raise questions as to how it could be stored in the high pressure needed to expand that rapidly and produce that volume of foam while remaining in vapourised form but it would perhaps explain how it so easily mingles with the other gas (air) to create the necessary pockets to become foam.
Just a thought.
No matter what you call it, fact remains that there is usually/roughly a 1000:1 ratio between gas and solid (or liquid), in terms of volume occupied. If the cartridge contains only gas, then it has to be under extreme pressure to produce a significant volume of foam. If the cartridge contains a solid or liquid that can foam, the pressure inside the cartridge can be lots less.
Or it could just contain nanites, which convert elements present in the air and on the targets (and end with cannibalising themselves and whatever other chemicals they may carry, to finish the job).
Useful for when attacking gigantic targets, or armies, but still using the same attack, as it would be able to extend the conversion process until enough marshmallow foam had been created to do the whole job.
Were I to attempt to design such a thing, I’d be thinking in terms of filling the foam with oxygen and the bubble walls as the flammable part. Or perhaps a nitrocelluose based foam would do the job. Nitrocelluose certainly burns rapidly – as in instantly and often explosively.
Another possibility might be that the exotic chemicals in Dabbler’s grenade act to rapidly catalyze the gasses in the atmosphere to incorporate them into an explosive compound/foam, sort of like an air-breathing jet engine doesn’t need to carry nearly as much fuel as a self-contained rocket engine.
Not going to comment on the actual chemistry of such a reaction as it is most likely impossible, but that’s the fun part of alien super-science. :D
Ah the THERMOBARIC kind!
Yeah, the best form of Combat Flatulence.
Combat Flatulence… Those who have been there know… but I’ve never heard a term actually applied to it before… I like it!
Yeah, that’s a good one.
SBDWMD
Sado Bondage Dominatrix Weapon of Mass Destruction?
Silent But Deadly Weapon of Mass Destruction.
Dabbler takes her “Dutch Ovens” very seriously.
Ahh, I am more used to ‘Silent But Violent’. It has the better ring.
That’s definitely a component.
“Team, lets split up!”
“Great, that way we can do more damage…”
Don’t worry Achilles, Maxima and Harem can probably cope without Sydney babysitting them. ;-)
Love it.
https://youtu.be/ZJVgfDnjkko
:-D
I missed the reference!
Of course, when I hear that first line, I keep thinking of Fred from Scooby Doo. Here, we see our team’s version of Velma and Scrappy Doo (it’s kind of interchangeable as to who is who, depending on circumstances).
*checks calendar*
Yup, it is a Thursday.
Scrappy? SCRAPPY!?!?!?
Explody gas is more useful than a grenade if the enemy is behind cover.
I might point out that the type of enemy encountered here qualifies as very strong evidence that this lair is indeed the place to which Sciona teleported. Will she hang around to face the ArcSwat team, though, when Maxima alone was enough to make her decide to teleport? I guess that depends on what weapons she has available. And how many other lairs she has prepared over the years.
Also depends on how often she can teleport.
It’s clearly not something she can just do whenever, or she would be doing that over flying.
But maybe she enjoys flying?
There is evidence to suggest that flying is generally enjoyable in-universe. That said the teleporting might have been one of those things where you have to be in range of a endpoint sigil or something for it to work.
In the Taltos books by Steven Brust, the main character has a bad reaction to being teleported – indeed,m most humans (Easterners) tend to feel pretty green around the Gills after a teleport. Dragaerans (Humans) don’t seem to have this problem.
It may be nothing more than teleporting really takes it out of a blood mage for a few moments afterwards, or hours, or days…
As a general rule of thumb, villains don’t like much of anything unless it includes inflicting pain & suffering on others. Of those that are capable of flying, not many seem to take delight in just…flying.
I wonder if that’s related to another tendency of villains that many of them tend to lair in remote, dismal & desolate areas that include a gloomy aspect. Some, mostly the Mastermind type, like opulent, classy settings for lair decor, but so many other types aren’t like that.
Did you miss the scene with Sciona and Deus.
Vale can supply you with sketches, if you want?
I’d rather DaveB supplied us with sketches. Vale is NOT the only one who likes to watch.
I disagree, and this is a good discussion to have.
I theorize that most villains are mostly normal folks who are sociopathic enough to value their own comfort over that of others, and/or delusional enough to believe that what is good to or for them is best for the greatest number of people. As evidence, I present [insert your least favorite government/class system here].
Sadism (and not the fun kind, with safewords and admirable fashion sense) is a completely separate thing.
Tropes exist for a reason & that reason is that the scenario or concept occurs often enough to it becomes entrenched in the genre. For (some of the) evidence, I present Batman, both in the 1960’s & in modern times.
In the TV series of the ’60’s: They always tilted the camera when the scene was in the villain’s lair, which ways always some kind of seedy warehouse or some other abandoned place that they occupied & re-purposed for planning their nefarious schemes.
In modern Batman, he’s never found with a deficit of glass skylights to break through.
In any case, even if the boss-villain personally lived in better-appointed places, if they had to interact directly with their minions to carry out his crimes, he / she would always do so in the appropriately seedy surroundings.
Even in Lord of the Rings, where did Sauron live? Volcanic desolation.
Undead boss-villains? Either their own tomb or some underground cave / excavation where their tomb is located.
James Bond villains were the more famous examples that broke away from the trope, but that was mainly because the boss had far better lines of (remote) communication to their minions in order to interact with them.
Sooo many examples show that it’s a more common trope than it isn’t.
Hey, Spike (the vampire who killed two Slayers) lived in … oh … a dismal crypt. But … but … ooh he did upgrade to a cool mansion, when he got the chance!
And Dracula lived in a stylish castle. Albeit … oddly out of place … in suburban Sunnydale.
Kingpin and Lex Luthor liked the upper crust city life.
The “Villains Lair” serves two purposes.
-cheap location shop/cheaper to animate
and two its an extension of the “Dragon’s Keep” and “Ogre’s Castle” from old fairy tails. It helps to dehumanize the villain in the eyes of the audience by having them reside in some dark overwhelming place that no ordinary person would find comfortable to reside in.
Equally possible that she simply can’t do it very often, that the ability has a recharge time. Otherwise, why not teleport to Cooter and then teleport home?
Looks like recharge time or high cost or a combination.
Or just dangerous, especially without preparation. There have been many stories in which we are told about the risk of accidentally teleporting inside a solid object, or forgetting to account for the Earth’s orbital velocity (thus teleporting yourself into space), or getting your DNA mixed up with another creature like in The Fly (keep in mind the human body is home to around 90 trillion other organisms) or whatever.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, though. I’m just adding a third possibility to your list. Maybe, even for Sciona, it’s too dangerous to teleport except in emergency situations or unless she’s had adequate prep time.
Suck ga-er-explosion? evil doers!
Also, Sydney needs to get to the part of her training where she learns to keep her shield up when engaging the enemy unless The Plan requires her to use that hand for something else.
shield and air supply, remember that shield is oxygen proofed
Couldn’t hurt till she needs to act but I’ve always felt there was enough air in that thing to last a while at a time without refresh. She makes it pretty big most of the time.
Let’s get DANGEROUS!
Need a thumbs up on this thing.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/gFwZfXIqD0eNW/giphy.gif
seams like dabbs has lit up the intruders over here signal
Let it burn, let it burn … the hot never bothered her anyway. Sidney has a very good reaction for her shield orb.
We don’t need water. Let it burn.
Warning: strong language.
Oh wait! Maybe I should have put this notice above the link, maybe?
:D
Or if you’re into metal (I’ve seen these guys in concert six times now):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6djKy7CEKYg
That training sure came in handy . From what to shield it in less than a second period
Which is still too long if someone got the jump on her. If it were me I’d have had it up all the time in that lair :)
Problem with that is the she can run out of air she does that .
Nope she now literally has an infinate air supply courtesy of her formerly unknown orbs =).She can literally spend all day behind the unbreakable shield if she wants to now.Yknow in the hands of anyone else the orbs would be scary.
the energy density of air fuel bombs is better, as they don’t need to carry the oxidizer around. TNT is at 4.6MJ/kg and Oil is at 42MJ/kg. With Dabbler tech she has probably better even fuel.
Aluminum nanoparticles. Enhances fuel combustion by 5-20 times with a proportionate uptick in heat energy release.
Seriously. Teflon-coated aluminum powder makes for a GREAT fuel-air explosive.
Teflon coated? That would make it almost innert – Teflon does not burn well and if you manage to burn it you get extremly toxic products like HF.
At the scale involved (<1 μm particle size) once you trigger the detonation with a blasting cap (or in Dabbler's case, a plasma bolt) the carbon and fluorine serve as additional fuel and oxidizer. The fact it's usually inert because of the PTFE coating makes it ideal as a military explosive. You want a big boom for the mass, but also something that won’t go off until you want to set it off.
What I do not get is why not use Al powder without coating or another coat? Clumping Problems? I know setting of any explosive is a problem but Al powder is stable as long as it is in a container without oxygen oder any other kind of oxidizer. Anyway if they realy use that i hope i get never anywhere near that or the remains … AlF3 is neurotoxic.
As I understand it with the coating you get fluorine which is an amazing oxidizer. So much so that we basically know nothing about it because the reactions involving it are all too explosive.
You’re honestly not going to get much better boom for your buck than this without resorting to highly energetic/exotic matter. (hyperdimensional azides, fullerened antiprotons, crystallized quarks)
Just look, less than a pound of aerosolized explosive gets you a fireball that would FILL A HOCKEY ARENA.
Yes, fluorine is amazing oxidizer, it can oxidize even stuff like water and sand …
and teeth
You are right it is used – I just found and read the preparation Patent. Always interesting to know something new. It seems like the natural forming oxide layer is the problem and a thin (5nm to 5um) teflon layer prevents this.
ROFLMAO! And I can’t say why! OWWWW!
Roll over a Lego brick?
Lol.
Also great for cleaning drapes, carpets and upholstery. If you’re planning on remodelling after.
Great if you have indestructible drapes, carpets and upholstery.
If you have cats you need those already.
or bladed wings that can cut thru marble, as well as w/e unobtainium that pillar in the Vault was made of
That’s going to send a nasty ear popping shockwave down the tunnels to the rest of the team.
If the shockwave isn’t at least contained or restricted from spreading, in this case it might also destroy the bridge as well as the combat golems. I’m thinking that somewhat solidified structure of the foam, once set, would be something like like confining an explosion, which increases the force. But also reduces the range of the shockwave in order to reduce collateral damage beyond a small circumference.
Yeah, Dabbler should’ve thought about how none of them can fly before she… oh, wait, wrong comic.
Sort of a foam shape-charge, focusing the majority of the explosion inward.
Yeah, the way he said…
Well, it looks like Max is using a FAE against a Fey… (or at least her Mannikillers anyway.)
I have no clue as to why i said Max…i should have said Dabbler…
isn’t there any way we can get an edit function added to this forum/comments section? please?
We can’t even delete let alone edit :)
Fuel Air Bombs exist, so why not.
I guess why we don’t see man portable variants in use is because of the collateral damage. The entire point of sending in people is to not destroy everything.
for infantry purposes a normal grenade is more then enough. what kills are the fragments, not the blast in most cases. For breaching a shaped charge is better any way. Fuel air is the way to go, if you want destruction, are not near and don’t have to breach a bunker.
Excuse me? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPO-A_Shmel were quite used in Afghanistan, and the US army has its analogue of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M202_FLASH . So such things definitely exist and are used.
and in fact actually replaced Flamethrowers, which is why Militaries don’t really use them anymore. Most modern day Flamethrowers are used against invasive African Killer Bees, which is why it’s actually legal to own one in most of the US.
Ahem!
AFRICAN killer bees? May I point out that they are human created hybrids of Western Honey Bees and African Honey Bees. I object to the characterisation that makes them African Killer Bees. They should be called Mad Scientist Killer Bees!
As it is the typical term used is “Africanised”, but even that is still racist and unfair to all cuddly honest African Honey Bees!
Except, specifically talking about the deadly version
So am I. And that is the point, African Bees are not killer bees, they are honey bees. Using the name inappropriately gives the wrong impression about the innocuous variety.
Yet when referring to the Killer Bees, they were not made in Africa. They were made in South America. If choosing between which of the two names, to pick “Western Killer Bees” would be more appropriate than “African Killer Bees”.
My point is reminiscent of advice given by the World Health Organisation not to name diseases after countries or regions. Africa has got sod all to do with them being killer bees. It should not be tarnished by being associated in such a way.
Whereas it would be appropriate to remind folks that it was Western science which created those abominations. So to more appropriately focus it “Western Scientist Killer Bees” would be best.
Crazy insane attack bees would likely be a better name. At least more descriptive. In Venezuela, the beekeepers are keeping these things, and actually developed a new disease because of it. Because the bees cling so tightly to their veils, and will try to sting so hard that the veils drip bee venom, they wind up inhaling minute particles of venom aerosol. Which has resulted in their lungs becoming sensitive/allergic to bee venoms.
This I was told in a conversation with the State Apiarist for Tennessee some years back, after I sent him samples to show that West Tennessee had been invaded by small hive beetles.
(Yes, I’ve had a very odd life, or so people tell me. It’s always seemed to me that I just did the next thing that needed doing.)
In my school days I used to be an assistant apiarist. Hence having a soft spot for the lovely creatures.
There is one compensation mind. Despite the dangers, honey yields have leapt up where the hybrid bee has replaced regular honey bees. That aspect was the whole intent behind the mad science project.
Two compensations. As they spread throughout America they will hopefully serve as a pointed reminder that such tampering should be done in an area where any dangerous organisms cannot easily escape. And confined enough that eradicating them is feasible.
Which basically translates to doing genetic manipulation, both the testing and the prolonged trials (which is when such problems will become more evident than in controlled laboratory conditions) should be conducted on very remote pacific islands. With as much of the initial stages, as possible, being in fully sealed environments.
Rather than in farming areas, on continents, and near enough to other crops and animals, of similar types, that they can interbreed or invade their habitats. Which is the idiotic way that things are currently still handled!
Again, talking about African Killer Bees, please note the second word used (and always used) not the regular African Honey Bee
And again there is no such thing as African Killer Bees. They do not exist. No such thing. Stop spreading misinformation. Use the right term or desist.
Yorp is right. There are two kinds of bees in Africa, they both are “honey” bees and none of them “killer”. The “regular” African honey bee and the less common Cape honey bee do have both a more aggressive response to provocation than the Western one (the Cape honey bee less so though), but that’s it.
African honey bees are not more venomous than Western ones but they are way more aggressive, leading to more serious attacks under the same circumstances.
According the articles I read the aggressive behavior that characterize the Africanised bees is fairly the same as the African original ones have. The cross breed is not a crazier freak, it maintains the traits already present.
Hey. you would be defensive if you had to protect yourself against Clover and her relatives the honey badger! In Africa there was no tradition of domesticating bees, rather their hives were destroyed, when harvesting honey.
Likewise the honey badger didn’t give a s**t about bee stings, so only the most aggressive behaviour stands any chance of driving them off (such as getting in hits on the eyes).
African bees are actually representative of natural defensive behaviour in any bee species. The difference with the European Honey Bee (the type that has been taken throughout the West, including the Americas), is that it was selectively bred to encourage passive behaviour and non-aggressive traits, over hundreds of years.
Sensible science. Then along comes a mad scientist who wanted to reverse that!
However, whilst you are correct that the monstrosity he created only had the same strength poison as the African Honey Bee, there are other behavioural differences, both in bees and in the humans around them. Meaning that in Africa bee related deaths are relatively rare, and usually only occur when humans accidentally come across a hive unawares.
The biggest problem with commercial bee farming is that it concentrates bees in far greater quantities than found in nature. And, likewise, the selective breeding managed to enhance various traits which increased yield. One principle of which, in farming, is that if you have crops which mature faster, you can harvest the produce quicker.
Applied to bees this meant picking ones which would mature from larva to adult faster. Highly significant for the
queenprincess bees, as the one who achieves adulthood first has a significant advantage over its siblings, when it comes to fighting to the death, to determine who gets to become the queen.This is a normal behaviour in any bee species. Usually resulting in the fittest sibling passing on their genes. Africanised Bees though have a huge advantage over Western Honey Bees, because they matured much faster. Meaning that there is no fight. They manage to kill all their Western Honey Bee rivals whilst they are still just larvae!
Which is why they have swept through Southern and Central American hives, despite massive attempts to stop them. Bees do not tend to attack queens. They have some kind of law about ‘only a queen may kill a queen’ (humans had that at one time too).
So queeny wanders into a rival hive, not even needing a diplomatic passport, kills her rival and squeezes off a few eggs in the royal bed nursery and goes off chortling “MU HU HU HA!”
Although mostly this risky behaviour is avoided (for some reason the Western queen bees like to fight back). However both bee species have mating flights in which any males in the area will join in. So a queen can be impregnated by various different bees. This is good, in evolutionary terms, as her hive will have a diverse mix of genes.
But bad when even one Africanised Sexual Stud Bee is in the mix. Because his daughters will be the ones who mature fastest when fed royal jelly (which is what turns a mere commoner into a princess and then a queen).
Then, of course, you get the problem that the Western Honey Bee has also been bred to have far bigger population numbers (another thing which increases honey yields). Hence the hybrids likewise end up with big populations, even over and above the humans aiding them by supplying loads of artificial hives and protection from predation.
So the biggest difference in Africa is that, whilst people will get stung just as aggressively, the result is usually survivable, because only a modest number of stings get inflicted (bear in mind that these are kamikaze attacks, as every bee that stings dies). Whereas the Murderous American Bees attack in huge swarms, which can and do easily kill people!
Over 1,000 of them since the mad scientist unleashed them on the world.
That’s highly unfair and a myth.
Kerr was a pioneer geneticist who tried to improve the Western bee with the hard working African bee, in what he succeeded. He also did a great deal of good in other areas. The bees being more aggressive was not a problem if properly managed. It’s very similar to research on virus strains. If accidentally a strain gets in the wild is a very bad thing, but you will not blame the ones making vaccines as “mad scientist” just for that. (also the protocol break was not made by Kerr)
There’s a lot of lazy or plain intentional bad press around Kerr, the clearer articles on the subject I found are:
https://badbeekeepingblog.com/2016/09/09/the-man-who-made-killer-bees/
https://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/12-19-96/cover.htm
Below an assorting of quotes of both:
I based my comments on the science. Whilst I dramatised it, as is my wont, I did not do so unfairly. I read through your links and there is nothing in there that changes the facts. Being well intentioned does not change what he did. Nor does his good record on protesting against human rights abuses.
Had he been a more competent scientist, and had also chosen to exercise the same moral stance on his own work, he would have refused the government’s invitation to attempt the cross breeding, in any area where his creations could escape.
Trying to blame that escape on someone else not following protocol just means that the protocols that he should have put in place were not robust enough. And I am serious about doing such research on remote islands (or other similarly isolated locations). Even if it is a pain in the butt finding somewhere that matches the climate.
Until the hybrid was proven to be safe it should not have been in a situation where it could escape even with multiple protocol failures.
I questioned the suggestion that Kerr made an aggressive hybrid intentionally or carelessly. Kerr activism mention was not meant to justify the failure but to explain the bad press against him.
I don’t know where you got that from. The articles I read, mostly in Portuguese, make clear a few things:
– The original project’s goals, defined by Kerr himself, included a selective breeding to reduce negative traits, aggressive among them (*). The queens were kept in laboratories and studied until a couple dozens of the less aggressive ones were selected for further research.
– There were security measures in place to keep the queens quarantined while in the designated outside breeding area. The measures obviously proved to be insufficient but that’s just hindsight. I didn’t find anything about Kerr NOT following the accepted norms of the time.
– Kerr was an already well know scientist that trained at USA universities with some of the best geneticist of the time prior to the incident. In 1990 he was elected as a member of the USA National Academy of Sciences, I don’t think that would happen to someone with a history of mad, incompetent, careless, research.
* Much like it was done with the Western kind, as you mentioned early, which by the way was originally African as well.
I will grant that I did use the term “mad scientist”, but you will note that I was using clearly dramatic descriptive names throughout, so that should be taken with a pinch of salt, as it was intended to add a bit of comedy to my case.
However, other than that, at no point did I imply that he had intentionally made the hybrid aggressive. To the contrary I indicated that the intent was to increase honey yields.
However as I did not explicitly say that he was not actually a super villain, intent on dooming the world, it is fair that you raised your points in his defence. I just did not find them convincing regarding the overall conclusion. Albeit that they are fine on this aspect.
As regards attempting to exonerate him of carelessness, we can draw upon the wisdom that Pander imparted on us regarding negligence. The dude was a world-leading expert in his field, and was sought out on that basis. As such the fact that his creation went wrong is down to him.
American citizens are now dying because of his negligence. The ones most at risk not being the trained professionals, who are equipped with protective gear and are well informed as to how to minimise the risks. Rather it is members of the public stumbling across a hive in the wild. As well as their pets.
I imagine that the statute of limitations on negligence is probably short enough that he is in the clear. Although I would be interested to know if the same might apply to negligent manslaughter. If there is none, then he could yet face justice for his negligence!
Now his humanitarian behaviour, in other aspects of his life, and his good intentions to make more honey would provide mitigation on his sentencing, if found guilty. And your claim that ‘somebody else’ was responsible, may provide an avenue of defence, depending on what that was.
If he had conducted the experiments in a remote, hermetically sealed environment, well out of the flight range to any areas where bees could survive in the wild, but after he was no longer in charge someone else decided to move them into areas they could spread, then fine. Not his fault.
If though somebody just forgot to shut the door, then no, that is his problem.
And I very much suspect that it is closer to the latter, than the former (or worse that they were out in the open). Simply because if he had have taken reasonable precautions those would have been raised vocally in his defence, and would have featured in the articles you cited championing him.
If his protocols were not flawless, then he was careless.
Not to mention that he clearly had none to test if the bees were aggressive, nor to consider that an already dangerous species may be enhanced to a deadly one by increasing its population density!
These are things that, as the world-leading expert, he should have considered and investigated.
And the people trying to clear up his mess have found that there are less aggressive strains, which do still produce the same honey yields. So had he taken the slow but steady approach, he could have ensured that the deadly strains were bred out before the bees were released into an unconstrained environment.
Are thousands of deaths an acceptable price to pay for increased honey production? When the same result could have been achieved with patience and foresight.
The bit about him being hired by the government, was from the second article you linked.
Likewise as regards his humanitarian/anti-government protests:
Barring the fact that it was done slowly, and carefully, over hundreds of years. They were working within a population of bees that were closely related and already present in the country(/ies) in question.
Whereas he chose to pick two types which had not been in contact with each other for hundreds (and possibly thousands) of years. Whilst knowing that one of the two strains was already significantly dangerous!
This does not require hindsight.
Picking the less aggressive ones, out of a group that is heavily weighted to being more aggressive is only useful as a first generation iteration. It needs to be repeated numerous times to eventually breed out the aggressive strains. And that should be continued however long it takes to bring them down to being passive. Even if it takes decades.
He was trying to rush things!
Wikipedia provides us details of the protocol breech:
So there was SINGLE precaution taken to ensure that the quarantine was maintained. There was NO fallback protocol.
Further the breach was by a guest. Someone clearly working with the bees, at that. Yet who was applying normal bee-keeping practices.
There is only one person responsible for this breech. The man who should have put up whacking great warning signs, in multiple languages, on every approach to the hives!
The man who should have ensured that everybody who enters the area received a clear briefing on the importance of maintaining the ONLY security precaution which was maintaining the quarantine.
The man who needed to keep the quarantine area locked, with a written register that both the key-holder and the guest should sign and specifically note that the individual had been trained appropriately.
Not to mention that the same man chose the site in a location where, once the bees got loose they could live, breed and expand in an unchecked manner!
The dude is guilty of negligence, whether or not he can still be prosecuted for that.
I certainly will, if they do not comply with the strict procedures laid down for medical research! And it is that field which shows that protocols which require extreme care can and do work. They just require more time and money.
It is those levels of standards that mad scientists should be required to adhere to, when conducting experiments with genetic engineering (be that by old fashioned means or snipping and splicing), nanites and any other weird stuff that has the potential to run out of the laboratory and start breeding on its own!
Just because there are no laws requiring that does not mean that scientists get to absolve themselves of the guilt. They should refuse to risk endangering the world. If they decide to take that chance then they deserve the appellation “mad”, no matter whether they luck out or not.
I’m guessing you mean 1,000 deaths along this 60 years over the whole territory Africanized bees has expanded to (from Brazil to southern USA).
Can’t argue, I was unable to find reliable, well organized statistics on the topic.
Well your second link does actually corroborate my comment:
It is worth noting though that the article was written in the last millennium and was just a local paper. So it is not a great source, and you are right that something more authoritative would be better.
Especially is it is way out of date, given more recent research. Whilst it does raise quite a lot of good points, it does overwhelmingly try to portray the hybrids as being OK. Barring admitting that cats and dogs are very likely to be killed, due to their curiosity and poking around near bee hives.
Importantly, as I mentioned myself, the honey yields are up. And, the article is right to say that beekeepers can manage the risks. For themselves (but bees don’t just stay put).
Here however are important aspects that are completely omitted:
1) They can smell the breath of larger creatures (in particular detecting the raised carbon dioxide levels, if I recall correctly). This sends them into an attacking frenzy.
2) The hybrids instinctively attack the face and in particular the eyes.*
3) They will chase people up to a kilometre (they are European and African so do not use miles).
4) Even diving into water will not help, as they will circle above the last spot they saw the individual they were pursuing, for several minutes. Going from memory I believe anything up to five or ten minutes. So far longer than people can hold their breath underwater!
But I do wish to conclude with agreeing that, despite these factors, humans can co-exist with hybrid bees, if they are careful. So can be blase about the issue.
Doggies though, are another matter. We have good cause to be alarmed!
* Experiments involved creating increasingly simplified ‘faces’, finding out that even something as simple as a circle with two smaller circles in it (so a very simple caricature of a face) would draw the hybrid’s attacks, once they had become enraged (be that by smelling the breath, being attacked or the hive being disturbed).
Although they will sting anywhere on the body, those tests showed that the face had a significantly higher proportion of attacks. With by far the greatest concentration around the eyes.
Well, it also say that in the same period regular bees killed about the same amount in just the USA.
The four “important aspects that are completely omitted” you mentioned are interesting, however from all I could find things are not so clear:
1 – It seems all honey bees can “smell the breath” and react to it when detected near the hive.
2 – Again it seem that all honey bees do that.
3 – That’s right, hybrids chase aggressors way longer that Western, as African ones do.
4 – The “wait for you to come up for air” one is weird. It do is included in “Working Safely in Areas With Africanized Honey Bees” by USA Forest Service back in 2000, and wildly repeated almost verbatim since then. But the article do not cite sources, and I couldn’t find research on the topic, nor sources prior to it.
Anyway there’s no doubt about hybrid behavior being more aggressive than Western, but again it doesn’t seems to be more that the African original ones. However I agree that they likely are more probable to cause deaths.
Hopefully all Africanized honey bees will soon follow the lead of their Puerto Rico’s cousins: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171116090114.htm
—
The most cited work in honey bee behavior is: Crane, E., 1990. Bees and beekeeping: science, practice, and world resources.
Interesting article, thanks. I was unaware of that happening in Puerto Rico.
Yup. Totally agree on the former. It is what they should have done, what they attempted to do, but failed to.
I agree with your concluding line. Further I would propose expanding upon it. Because this discussion has focused on getting a horse back into the stable that it bolted from in 1950. Likewise the USA have voluntarily done the same with their crops since.
However what I would like to do is to prevent a similar contagion from causing deaths in the future.
Puerto Rico is an unincorporated territory of the United States. One which is very much deprived, when compared to the various fully incorporated States. As highlighted by how feeble their electricity infrastructure was, when hit by a hurricane last year.
They were hugely reliant on government intervention (fair enough with a natural disaster mind) but clearly were struggling from massive debt. So taking many months to even restore part of the network. Not to mention showing the poverty that many Puerto Ricans live in, even before the lights went out.
So they could be given an offer, in a referendum. To make Puerto Rico the testing ground for all future genetic modification trials. If they accept then the US could ban all such in the mainland, until they have gone through extensive trials in Puerto Rico.
If Puerto Ricans are willing to take that risk, they will get benefits. Namely all the research companies would need to move their testing facilities to the island. Which would create a hub, much like Silicon Valley, for the electronics and computing industries.
Further, assuming that the majority of developments do actually provide a significant quality of life improvement, it will be Puerto Ricans who get to experience this for years before anybody else is allowed access to them.
And they will have wonderful career opportunities in the pest control, genetic anomaly correction medical care, and rampaging mutant monster hunting industries!
Back to the original topic, your comment is very relevant because it seems that when the African kind initially became feral, Brazilian beekeepers nicknaming them “killer” was not referring to humans, but the “regular” bees as you described. Then reports of human victims arose and the nickname was mistaken.
Note the points I raised above, numbered 1) to 4). Plus the earlier comments about the large numbers of bees likely to attack in hybrid swarms.
So I think the ‘killer’ part is a reasonable term, regardless of its origin.
Incidentally I have been in such an attack, so I am a first paw witness as to its survivability. I used to be a member of the cub scouts (really) and we were out doing a wilderness trek. Then one of the group decided it would be a laugh to stomp on some termite nests. Which the rest of us condemned, of course, being good cubs.
However he persisted. Up until he came across one that had been abandoned and a bee colony had set up residence!
Naturally enough the bees were pissed off at having their home stomped, so swarmed out and attacked him. And everybody else in the area, including me, even though we were far away!
Importantly even though the vandal got the most stings he was OK. One of my friends did almost die mind. Like me he only got a relatively few stings (we ran like crazy). However he turned out to be highly allergic, so had to be rushed to hospital. Which, being efficiently trained we ensured happened immediately. As it was they barely saved him.
But that was only due to his allergy, and the stupidity of our companion. The bees had not bothered us prior to that, and the rest of us were mostly only painfully stung, with a few who were badly hurt and suffering nausea, inflammation, dizziness and vomiting.
At least the US isn’t deploying troops with these hand-held nukes anymore… O_o
Yield: 10-20 tons TNT. Range: 1-2.5 miles. The military was still getting a handle on fallout when this was developed in the 50s, but probably not a good idea to be the one pulling the trigger if you were downwind of the target.
Ahh, so that is how they managed to get coonskin hats. I had wondered.
but Fallout didn’t come out commercially till ’97! and i wasn’t aware Black Isle was military-affiliated
stealth is optional for this mission
Well, yes… Max is in charge, and she’s clearly not in a subtle mood. Compared to that, it really doesn’t matter what Dabbler or Halo do..
Famous last words…
^_^
Dabbler, Sydney and Max are not the subtle type of ladies and that is how I like them, as long as I’m no where near them when the fighting starts of course.
Or really near them. As in safe inside Syd’s shield :D
So long as you give me a scratch behind my ears. And it is airtight, so no farting!
It’s technically still stealth if there’s no one alive to report you.
Well, in many cases, there might also be remote-viewing sensors, such as cameras & microphones, or other more exotic forms of monitoring. Even if none of them survive, whoever is watching in a remote viewing station will know something is going on that is probably worth reporting…
…And, technically, those golems aren’t alive anyway…Their survival is irrelevant.
;)
Define alive. They are both blood powered and, according to the giant version, potentially sentient.
Actually, I’d be willing to bet that the death of the golems is a sensor ping itself. So that’s 12 alarms (10 golems plus at least a couple of other alarms) going off.
Oh yeah.
Main reason my guard people wear life monitors and motion sensors…
Unless you are carefully watching the glass of water for vibrations, underground bunkers do an excellent job of buffering loud noises between secured chambers.
RUN SYDNEY! THE T-REX IS COMING!
Im not entirely sure any members of this team even understand the concept of stealth anyway,Guess when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail(Ok im being a bit unfair,At the very least I imagine Dabbler could be stealthy if she wanted to).
Gas + ignition is safer when you discover that the explosion would take out the support beams/bystanders, you can simply choose to use the gas as distraction/vision blocker and not ignite it.
Gas has a tendency to move through fabrics and other things that normally would give a bit of shielding from the heat, so when ignited it causes a lot more incineration.
Explosives come from a point (large point) so tends to be directional, it also comes with a blast wave due to all the combustion happening in a relatively small area, a gas cloud would be more generalised and spread out so there would be less of a blast wave and as already mentioned a lot more heat (comparatively speaking that is).
Or in Dabbler terms: Burn baby burn
Yeah I was going to point out, one benefit of the soaking period pre-ignition is that you will have some amount of fuel on the skin and clothes of your victims, whereas with a straight explosion, there is basically no fuel getting to the target unless they are very close. For a bomb it’s mostly radiant heat (light) from the explosion itself that causes burns, although there are shockwaves and shrapnel to cause additional death. That said, depending on the fuel, gas ignitions may mean that you have a bunch of people crippled with serious burns but not killed, which can be ridiculously cruel. Presumably Dabbler’s mix will be hot enough to kill, or the combination of stresses is enough to kill most or all victims.
Soooo theyve just set off a large explosion in a corridor with the far end sealed and them standing in the only way out for all that hot expanding gas?… You know what that is, dont you? That, Sir, is a cannon, and Dabbler and Sydney are the bullets. If Dabbler isnt inside Sydneys shield she’s in deep kimchi. Also the next state.
The cavern looks quite large, so the air pressure at the exit may be no problem, judging from Dabblers hair and coattails. Hopefully this is the case or else Dabbler may indeed end up as mush in the next episode.
The depletion of oxygen, like ‘Town Crier’ posted below, may be a bigger problem.
One of Sydney’s orbs can replenish air that was expelled by explosion…And Dabbler also happens to be inside Sydney’s shield too, which will also prevent the air currently inside of it from being expelled.
Dabbler is definitely NOT inside of the shield.
I agree, she’s behind it.
Only partly (3/4 at most).
nope
Look at her hair and coat and the outline of Sidney’s shield.
Gasp!
Dabbler’s butt is exposed!
Nah,
tight fitting pants,
Still….. Mjam!
I’m hoping that the ventilation is good down there, because a LOT of oxygen just got used up in that fiery explosion. Granted, Sydney’s AirOrb might be able to help, but to what degree?
Plus, having seen those guys in action before, I am not sure that this attack may have been fully effective.
well, all airorb needs to do is supply enough air to within shield, outside of shield is irrelevant
Not for those who are in the process of catching up to Team Destructo-Blasto.
As was said previously, similar weapons are real. The main difference is that ours’ use sample explosion to deploy the fuel faster. And generally they’re super nasty in confined space.
Sydney’s uniform looked like it was covered in aluminum foil.
That’s just the lighting, right ?
Several intense light sources focused on a black and white camo design that gives an impression of shine spots when viewed in still images, I believe.
center panel dosnt have any intense light source and it still looks like its got highvis tape all over it
Dabbler knows just what to wear under clothing that can get blown up and about by a good breeze or an explosion… very very little
Scratch that, checked back and she’s wearing incredibly tight, purple pants… However I choose to believe they are buttless.
(wow… Google image search the word “buttless”)
Dabbler considers Humanities greatest achievement to be chaps. “So convenient for so many different modes of riding.”
Just make sure you pronounce it properly, many don’t
is it like shaps?
Chaaaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZfzeqMZECQ
1st panel smacks of “hold my beer and watch this”.
That seems to be one of the philosophies both Xuriel and Sydney likes to live by.
What happened to the cast page? It’s empty now!?
Ooh, a positive sign! It shows that Dave has been working on it. Originally it just had some kind of error message.
May still be down for an indefinite period though, so don’t hold your breath. Dave spends most of his time writing and drawing the comic.
Do not despair though, all the information, and more can be found here!
Under construction. Has been for a long time now.
Thermobaric and Fuel/Air Explosives have a number of advantages. First and foremost, because they deflagrate rather than detonate, they create a more sustained pressure wave that is harder to survive and covers a proportionally larger area than conventional explosives. Secondly, as others have already pointed out, FAEs, not requiring their own oxidiser, have a much higher energy density than conventional explosives. As an example, the Russian FOAB is claimed to have an energy output of 44 tons of TNT vs a 7.1 tonne launch weight. Confining it in a room only increases the effect of this kind of weapon.
One feature that is a situational advantage is that thermobaric and FAE warheads will not generate much in the way of fragments. In close quarters, where it might be desirable to get rid of a nearby enemy but too dangerous for conventional explosives due to the risk of fragments hitting friendly troops, this could come in handy. In the present situation, Dabbler is using her launcher correctly, but out in the open a more conventional explosives might serve better.
And on that note, there exists a hybrid type of explosive that is most some sort of energetic material doped with aluminium that has an increased blast compared with TNT. This is how the American MOAB is able to achieve an equivalency of 16 tons of TNT from a bomb less than 10 tonnes in weight. More recent RDX based explosives with ultra fine aluminium particles have achieved detonation velocities and fragment speeds broadly equivalent to HMX based explosives, while maintaining a longer pressure wave. This is probably going to be the most common form of explosive in the American military going into the future, as it can fulfill both roles without requiring specialisation.
Radio? No. Smoke signals and demon drums.
FAE grenades might not always be the most practical method, but you know what? Sometimes a mufugga needs to know he’s bout to get exploded.
Probably NOT what Maxima had in mind,but I wonder if those mannekillers would still be standing or in several pieces?!?
Even if the latter they can rebuild themselves. But molten slag … probably not.
But, even though they took out such a team previously, there is no guarantee that the same techniques will work this time. Sciona could well have paid attention and made upgrades.
But she has been kind of busy of late, so maybe not.
Even if those golems were capable of reassembling from pieces (like those in the attack on the Council Chamber), those pieces have been widely scattered by the explosion & fallen off the bridge to…How deep does that cave go anyway?
;)
Considering that this is a supervillain lair I imagine that it might go very deep and have spikes and crocodiles ant the bottom.
I mean crocodiles AT the bottom. Then again crocodile/ant hybrids would be perfect in a supervillain lair.
It’d be tough to keep ’em in the pit, though.
Just put a layer of hippos above them.
If you are going to use hippos, why bother with crocs? More people die from hippo attacks every year than from crocs (unless it’s a crime of mercy, those shoes are ugly!!)
OK, I think we are getting somewhere. So crocodile handbags would be more desirable. Then have some nice juicy steaks. And a layer of hypnosis that will convince those falling in that they are in a shopping mall and should stay to shop and eat.
Perfect. A nice humane trap!
use an animation spell on crocodile handbags, sorta the Mimic thing, except a handbag instead of a treasure chest, when you reach in for whatever it bites yer hand off
No dungeon would be complete without some cunning twist. Approved.
Indeed, if you have hippos, why bother with crocs?
Nothing like a good thermobaric grenade to get a party started in style.
Boom shake the room.
Nice reaction times on your bubble Sydney. But work on it, so that you can get it up before something travelling at the mere speed of electricity in atmosphere reaches you.
Remember three steps ahead.
Step one is to pay attention to something holding a gun.
OK step zero, when split up, is to already have your shield up, but we know you are all heroic and don’t want to do that.
Oops. I took it as being one of the constructs getting off a shot at Sydney (with a taser-like less-lethal weapon). But re-examining it I see that it is Dabbler’s weapon which shot the electricity at them.
So Sydney had not been caught out, before getting her shield up. So awesome reflexes indeed.
More specifically, she probably had to have the shield *down*, or at least not covering Dabbler, in order for Dabbler to fire her gun.
Also, since her air supply is limited, even with some sort of air-tank/re-breather, she probably doesn’t walk around with it on. Instead, this is once again a sign that having Dabbler on the team should be a disaster, and it’s only not by authorial fiat. Not signalling her teammates that she’s about to create a massive fireball is, in fact, something that she should get pulled from the field for.
(I don’t dislike Dabbler as a character–she’s alien, and I expect an alien to have different standards of conduct. But she never suffers any real consequences for those actions, and thus the antics continue. If someone wants to destroy ARCHON, all they have to do is send in an undercover operative who is married and attractive, wait for the inevitable, and then sue the entire operation so badly that their available budget allows them to rent the back room at Sydney’s comic shop on alternate Tuesdays–and off-brand snacks.)
Dabbler does suffer consequences. She has to sit through boring lectures and debriefings of how she did stuff wrong. Which will encourage her to do better as she much prefers it when she is being praised.
Importantly though (as far as we know) she is the only alien working for the US government (without turning Halo’s Truesight Orb on Congress). Which does make her presence highly desirable. Dabbler can provide them a lot of information and insight, even if she does not share her toys.
But even studying them in action will give scientists some clues as to ultra technology, even if it is just to know that things are possible, if not the specifics of how to replicate them. Which could help eliminate whole fields of pointless research and help aim it at the ones that can eventually yield results.
The long-term benefits are incalculable. If Dabbler wanted to crap in the General’s coffee every morning, that would still not be enough of an issue to counter the pluses in the relationship.
Furthermore Archon does have a black ops branch. If someone is trying to do stuff like you propose, Arc-Dark can push back a lot harder!
Whilst I think Archon would not do so unnecessarily, governments are perfectly willing to kill anyone who is compromising a national asset, of the kind of scale that Dabbler represents. Along with whoever is masterminding that, behind the scenes.
And there was the pool incident, when the green ball jumped into her hand, even though she had no idea of what it did at that time.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2560
The balls do have some sort of automatic protection function, but how it operates is a mystery. So far.
1: Lectures have clearly had absolutely zero impact on her conduct, because things keep happening.
2: And if the person isn’t a Machiavellian agent, but is in fact just someone who lacked the willpower to resist Dabbler’s aura? Should Arc-Dark just snuff them out, as well?
I’m not denying Dabbler’s value as an asset. I fully grasp it. But without some sort of genuinely disciplinary action, she will (or should–again, authorial fiat) eventually be a disaster, in large part because she’s officially sanctioned, and thus, ARCHON itself is ultimately responsible for her actions.
Now, one way around this would be if Dabbler is secretly using some sort of additional power/magic/function of supernatural intelligence to determine the precise level of sexual harassment or shenanigans a particular individual is willing to put up with, so she only SEEMS to be crossing the line all the time, but in fact is simply stepping right up to it and running her toe along it for a bit.
1. You are confusing two issues. One is her sexual behaviour. She is a succubus, that ain’t going to change, ever. It is a racial, cultural and deeply ingrained aspect of her. The other is her combat tactics, which is the point here.
In their first debriefing Dabbler admitted that she had a big problem in complying with the orders to avoid killing their opponents, because she had too few non-lethal options. Which she has worked on rectifying by developing new items which would allow that. So far we have not seen her using those, as the combats since have been with foes where lethal force was authorised.
The other issue that Maxima lectured her about was the fact that she had wasted too much time toying with one opponent. A problem that Math had too. They were given the instructions to avoid grandstanding and take their opponents out fast.
I refer you to the results above as proof that Dabbler has listened to and acted upon those latter orders. With gusto.
2. Then there is no issue. Besides which I was skipping the irrelevant part of your proposal, and just skipping to the end and pointing out that if the enemy tried to compromise her in a way that would actually risk loosing her as an asset to the US government, that the had the option to use black ops. I specifically mentioned that I doubted Archon would do that.
However, to get back to the specific proposal you made, having sex with a married man is not a dismissible offence. Especially for someone hired as a ‘civilian specialist’, so (presumably) under a civilian contract, rather than serving a term as a soldier. If the guy wants to have sex, despite having made a vow not to, that is his problem, not hers.
The moral issue of Dabbler’s attraction aura is a completely different matter mind. For that to even be raised in an employment tribunal, or a criminal court (if attempting to prove rape for instance) it would be necessary for the prosecution to be able to prove that Dabbler can do it (her succubus nature is a state secret so that is not public knowledge) and to show that it rendered them incapable of free will.
Good luck with that.
Get too close to achieving it though and see the black ops option for how governments traditionally deal with those attempting to reveal state secrets (prior to the event – once the cat is out of the bag that is another matter).
In reality black ops does not require killing someone. The best way is simply to discredit them, or have them removed from wherever they are being a problem (in this case really easily if they are an Archon employee, they can just be dismissed, under whatever pretext is most convenient), or deal with whoever is behind the scenes, by having a quiet word with them.
If it is a member of the government, for instance, they can be told what will happen to their career if they get branded as a traitor for attempting to expose state secrets, for example. If they are a foreign spy, acting as a diplomat, they can be expelled as a ‘persona non grata’ (again using whatever pretext may fit the situation, not that any is needed).
But, if there are no more suitable options, falling under a bus does solve the problem.
Weaponized fart.
Too much information.
And we sure do not want to see the grenade’s manufacturing process!
Adding insult to injury seems a bit wasted on the mannekillers.
“There’s not enough beer in the world, Spleen!”
Dammit Dabbler, next time SAY something before you something like that!
edit: add ‘do’ at appropriate place.
again, add edit function! Please!
Just the one ‘do’ though. They do not want do do added to the explosion. That might hit the fan!
Alternatively, “something” could be the equivalent of a “bleep”, as in “Hey, Vehemence! “Something” you!”
I think the lack of a edit function makes it more interesting to post here.
…Sydney would probably say it just that way …
Just a thought, one of Dabblers outfits should have the slogan “You must be at least this tall to ride the succubus.” Like, on the bottoms of her shoes or something.
He he. Love it.
+1
But if the message is on the bottom of her shoes, no one could read it unless her feet are up in the air…
Oh, I see what you did there.
Where does she gets those wonderful toys?
Galactic toys R us?
Their child-safety regulations leave a bit to be desired.
Strohl Munitions makes this kind of stuff. And they are very child-friendly – they have coloring books showcasing their products in action!
https://youtu.be/GuAXcZmLNmM
Well durability does vary by species.
I mean Aesperians look human, but their default is ten times stronger than a human of the same build, their internal durability, and the structure of the skin makes them able to handle explosions that send them flying hundreds of feet in the air and landing on hard ground as no more than being winded and most cutting implements on Earth would be lucky to graze the skin.
But this is NORMAL for them, and they don’t realize it because its the norm. So naturally they develop weapons and spells to kill each other that would be overkill against humans, and likewise they have toys and “playthings” that would be downright dangerous if not lethal for ordinary humans; like a maze full of magical golems for young adventurers to safely practice on…to such a degree that one had to be shown how weak humans are in comparison by having some mundane world kids try to lift a straw bale and the Aesperian be confused that they couldn’t when they at the same age could drag large stones behind them as exercise at the same age.
Imagine the horror of intermingling these in sports, “here catch this light ball”…accidently beams them in head with marble orb causing a concussion.
:-D
Very well argued.
she makes em, she’s got her own lab
Yeah, the gas would get wider coverage. Pressurizing it is a bitch, but it’s DABBLER. And, as pointed out…secondary explosions. Plus, you get the enemy distracted.
Not from a single grenade. That is a pretty accurate depiction of one in use. The chamber where the baddies are standing is huge. Essentially more like an outdoors area for the purposes of determining how a single smoke canister would behave.
Then factor in that it is gloopy sticky stuff, and dispersal, beyond what was shown, becomes even less credible.
Basicaly It’s weaponised silly string or shaving foam. On Steroids.
Fuel-air bomb grenade? I mean, that’s effectively what it is.
That’s one thing I always love in video games. You can start a recreation of the Battle of the Somme in a room or even just down the hall and the amazingly attentive guards just a little bit away seldom if ever seem to notice.
True ’nuff.
But in this case fairly justified. Those guys are manikins. Wooden statues are not that known for their alertness. And even if they spot something their reactions can be a bit wooden. ;-)
Seriously though we know that magic uses similar principles to programming, in this setting. Sciona has put those constructs there with orders to “guard this room, kill anything that enters, unless it has the following properties ….”.
Programming in responses to go off and investigate noises from elsewhere just makes them easy to distract from their primary job. Their program is probably optimised to ensure their combat role is effective. Rather than trying to give them artificial intelligence capable of handling any situation as well as a human guard.
Mind you even humans can go:
“Did you hear that really loud ripping noise, like a vault door, being torn off its hinges?”
“Nope. Quite happy staying here thanks.”
“Sounds like a vault door falling down a mountain?”
“Squirrels. Not moving. Not that way anyhow. Say, guys, anyone have the keys to this door behind us. I think we are on the wrong side!”
“To protect this extremely advanced supervillain lair we shall split into small easily defeatable groups and never call for backup or use the alarms.”
“Does everyone have a security badge and a gun?”
Badges?
That’s a good idea, maybe we should get some badgers.
Just waaaaaaaaaiiitaminute here, Max let Sydney go with just Dabbler?
After specifically snubbing Dabbler out during the Sigil attack/Sciona lair stakeout‽
Chaos plus chaos equals destruction for fun and profit.
“Don’t be ridiculous, no one ‘aims an elephant’ at a target.”
“I’ve done it myself! For fun and profit, even!”
this comment calls for this comic
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1116.html
Never underestimate the power of multiple weaponized annoyances/distractions. I am guessing the main attack is elsewhere.
See Murphy’s Laws of Combat, particularly number 21: The enemy diversion you are ignoring is the main attack.
Don’t forget that Dabbler is capable of beating Maxima, in a no-holds barred fight. Combined with Halo they should be able to handle most situations. Or call for help and stall until backup arrives.
Or, not call for help and blow the mountain up from the inside…
That’s sill ok. Max has enough strength, invulnerability & flight to handle digging herself & team out from under the rubble…
The stakeout one was supposed to be lower key info gathering and reacting (appropriately) to the info gathered. This is an all-out attack so it doesn’t matter if they get carried away :D
“buuuuut you’re also history’s greatest mass murderer because the body count in most action video games is in the thousands?”
Sorry not even close, but more importantly , its the wrong word, killing terrorists/evil army-monsters/even serial killers does not make one a murderer. Murder is a legal term and means the unlawful taking of INNOCENT life.
It’s when you allow social justice authors and artists to frame the discussion that you get “Batman is no better than joker … or PolPot/Stalin/Mao”.
Because that thinking requires you to tear down the heroes and make them no better than anyone else. -yes off topic but actually temporally relevant.
The sticking point often comes up in the definition of ‘innocent’. But Batfleck aside, Batman doesn’t kill anyway… :D
Are you fucking stupid? Did you not watch the first Burton Batman? He killed heaps of people, he even shoved a stick of dynamite down a clowns pants, and smiled!!!!
Now now. Raising the counter point is fair, but not turning it into a personal attack. Especially when the one you are countering was put in a light hearted way. That really is not the way we should behave in this community.
And if someone has not watched a particular film that does not make them stupid. Otherwise everybody in the world would be stupid, as we have now passed the point where it is possible for anyone to watch every film ever made.
Before you got near to the end there would have been even more released. And there are a bunch that are not in existence anymore. So no amount of viewing time would make up for that loss.
Just pisses me off when people claim that Batsie doesn’t kill, or that he never uses a gun, completely ignoring the early issues where he did both
And you are correct, Kitsune9tails isn’t stupid, just ignorant
the thing is, it could just be inconsistencies in the writing, like how Superman keeps getting rewritten so he isn’t the incarnation of a sun god or the Messiah or w/e
Well in the early issues he was a detective…who dressed like a bat. And killed every super criminal he came across.
The editor however felt they needed to start reusing villains instead so they didn’t have to make up a new guy every issue. Thus starting Batman’s no kill policy…and as luck would have it that first villain who wasn’t killed was “The Joker” starting as his main villain out of pure happenstance for being the guy in the next issue and the ending changed from *kill* to *incarcerate*.
Superman’s problems are a laundry list starting with *no set rules, depends on the needs of the story* to increases and decreases in popularity (this affects every powerhouse comic book character, when they get popular they get buffed, when they lose popularity they get nerfed…or worse if they were written “too powerful” end up becoming jobbers for the “new tough guy” to show how strong they are. Hulk, Thor, and Juggernaut all suffered badly from that. Or if a new writer comes along, and actually hates or loves a character and will see what they can get away with depending on the character’s popularity.
there is an infamous incident in Marvel, see the character of Dazzler. She started off a background character, became popular and thus became a main character *this era one notes is when the old X-men arcade game came out, notice how different she looks than usual? This was to make her more appealing*…and she got insanely buffed in power levels. However her popularity dropped, and a writer came along who HATED her, changed her outfit back to disco insanity, nerfed her power, wrote her as dumb and self centered and made the audience hate her too. The character has never really recovered from that.
I have to disagree.
Murder is the taking of life outside the rules.
A cop or soldier killing people during, let’s say a gunfight, is within his/her rights to do so.
The second somebody surrenders, not likely to happen in a computer game, you can not kill him/her/them anymore. Don’t think there is a ‘cop’game doing something like that.
Of course in reality, at least in the USA, cops get/have a fair amount of protection if they do kill somebody unnecessary.
Well, enemies surrendered in the original Red Faction…but if you bypassed them, they’d reload and keep attacking. Which is a war crime, actually.
in Judge Dredd: Dredd Vs Death, you play as Dredd, and if you kill innocents, or criminals that have surrendered, you get what are basically infamy points, until it gets to the point that the special squad meant for handling rogue judges gets sent out to take you down
Mind you, Judge Death’s policy is an interesting extension of the cop’s legal right to kill lawbreakers, under justifiable circumstances. To paraphrase, from memory:
“This city is guilty. The crime is life. The sentence is death.” Judge Death is the most metal supervillain ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEWLbgqCkUk
Ooh, mine is cooler. Clearly I should become a 3000 AD writer.
When I was in Bosnia there was a TACSAT system that came up missing… They know that a Bosnian had stolen it so they waited for it to be turned on as they attempted to use it and tracked it… They located it in a Police station in Vares’ (pronounced Varesh, but I probably didn’t spell that right…) When we arrived in force with enough force to basically take the police into custody, they refused to come out. The Italian Carabineri moved in and used an expanding foam explosive to blow the door to make entry. Think Blade, in the scene where he blows the door to the Vampire library… So yeah, this above is possible…
Kind of like one of those Bond documentaries. But with Italians and vampires.
The gas actually weakens the barrier between this dimension and another that is filled with foam. The cut in space heals itself but a certain amount of foam escapes.
Explosions from the explosive dimension.
Once you can take matter and energy from elsewhere and put it where you want it there’s practically nothing you can’t destroy. Big bad giving you trouble? Toss ’em a party popper with a little neutronium confetti.
Reminds me of that SMBC comic with the superhero who could make puppies appear. She made them appear inside the villain.
Slightly more seriously, I am very surprised that Max is letting the raw recruit team alone with the alien/demonic CONSULTANT.
Especially since Dabbler has a really tough shield herself (that admittedly the mannekillers can pierce). I would team Halo with one of the squishier (and more experienced) folks, like Mister Amorphous.
Dabbler is more experienced than ALL the rest of the team COMBINED. She is 187 years old and has fought foes on a variety of planets.
Plus do not forget that she can beat Maxima (when she is allowed to use magic)!
But she does have a tendency to loose limbs and organs. So could do with the backup.
She’s got experience with dungeon crawling but not with proper team raid of a base. That said this is more like a dungeon crawl and Syd’s the only one other than Max who could survive tagging along.
Also sometimes it’s good for morale to let the chaotic underling off the leash a bit and there’s no way Max would let her go completely alone.
That’s because one is a ‘civilian contractor’ who has been with the team for maybe two months, the other is a recruit who has barely passed basic training!!
Neither of whom have the authority to be let out unsupervised
Now who’s being silly? Look, there is X, just behind Dabbler, watching her as always.
Anyhow they don’t need the authority, clearly they are following Maxima’s orders. She has the authority to use her forces as the situation demands.
If the tunnel forked, they would need to investigate both branches. Maxima has set her strongest asset (herself) to investigate one. Whilst sending her second most powerful to deal with the other. Both need support mind, however the second most powerful is in greater need, so it is sensible to give her the best available, namely Halo.
Their ranks are irrelevant. Their roles are pertinent mind. But Dabbler is a “Civilian Specialist” not a “Consultant”. Consultants are there just to provide advice. A specialist is there to perform their specialist function. Which, in this case, appears to be kicking butt!
Actually said ‘contractor’ not ‘consultant’ because had forgotten what exactly she was ‘officially’ listed as
Having those two paired up, is like having Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne teaming up
And it wasn’t about their ranks, butt their experience (or lack thereof)
Wait wait wait, hold that bone mister puppy! Did you just use ‘sensible’ in a serious manner regarding Sydney as being the best option for support? o_O
Elsewhere I have made the point that Dabbler is by far the most experienced combat person on the team (and likely on Earth for that matter). She is 187 years old and has fought on multiple different planets.
What she may lack is experience against super power, but Sydney has shown that her genre-savvy, from comic knowledge, is more than adequate to fill that gap. So they are actually an ideal pairing. The most experienced, with the least experienced. Yet the latter still being able to significantly contribute.
Sydney is easily the strongest support person in the organisation. Once she is properly trained she will take her place as one of the ‘big guns’. Until then (and even afterwards when it is called for) Halo has superb support potential.
Her shield provides the best team defence we know about. She can remain pretty safe in that bubble, which is an invaluable ability in a battle. If your support cannot survive a firefight then they cannot help. Then her tentacle can do all sorts of useful things, from defeating weaker enemies, to disarming more powerful ones (per the super construct fight), to lifting obstructions out of the way, deflecting incoming attacks and more.
Currently she is not meant to use the PPO where others may get hurt (even experienced team members can have problems with that, after all). But that is why she is support, at the moment, rather than a heavy hitter.
Then we get to the transportation capability, again suitable for a whole team. Plus the ability to see through illusions, scout remote locations, have a telepresence likewise. Refresh the air.
There is nobody else who can do things like that. Dabbler herself is the nearest, in terms of being versatile, but even she is currently too heavily combat oriented, so is weak on the support role (other than where seduction type techniques would be suitable).
Finally Sydney tends to focus better in combat than at other times. So is less likely to mess around, but when she does she is more likely to do so in a way that will not endanger folks.
So, yes, it is sensible to pair these two up. Despite Sydney’s quirks.
Wait, you are now suggesting that they start fights everywhere they go just so Sydney can focus and be useful? o_O
And Dabbles is not as proficient an adventurer as she makes out to be, and she has even admitted it (remember her eye and hand?)
It’s all three of you have forgotten that the Not-SWAT do not react well to being blown up, even Maxi had a rough time with one of them, not to forget those nasty pieces of blade inside them
No.
Although story wise the fights do have a purpose, in general. If the setting had no conflict this type of story would have much less drama and peril for the heroes. In fact there would not even be a justification in calling them heroes, given that heroism only becomes apparent in the face of adversity.
With no heroes the fan base would be much smaller.
Sydney is permitted to relax and enjoy life. But when the s**t hits the fan she knuckles down and excels.
I did not claim proficiency, I claimed experience. They are similar but not synonymous. In this context though you are using the word ‘proficiency’ to mean ‘excellence’ (likewise myself, in this reply). Given that she is most definitely proficient as a swordswoman (and in a host of other abilities too).
However what Dabbler lacks is the commitment to take that proficiency to rise to the pinnacle in any specific field. Hence why Heavenly Sword, who specialises in sword fighting, was able to outfight her. And it is why Maxima called her out on it. As a generalist she should not be trying to defeat a specialist at her own game!
It is also why I said that Sydney is a good pairing with Dabbler. She can deduce what an opponent’s weaknesses are.* Then we come to why Dabbler has the experience that I claim. Because it is so broad that she will very likely have proficiency in something relevant to exploiting such a weakness.
* As can Dabbler, but her confidence (at having won so many times in the past)** leads to her toying with enemies and thereby manifests itself as overconfidence. A particular problem here on Earth, due to the presence of supers. The one thing that she lacks experience in.
** She has lost an eye and a forearm but she has not lost her life. So the majority of her fights have been won. Two provable losses in 187 years is no worse than the number that Maxima has already accrued in her modest 34 years.
Actually, Dabbles is most certainly not proficient as a swordswoman (again, remember how she lost her hand and eye? both from sword fights, two separate sword fights), not to mention getting soundly thrashed on Wereworld (and that was before she lost a pair of bewbs, her eye and her forearm)
Dabbles may be 187 years old, that doesn’t mean much because seriously doubt she would have been adventuring as soon as she was born, plus we saw that she had to go to school for an undetermined period of time. Just because she has been adventuring for, say, 150 years (and that’s assuming she didn’t stop and settle somewhere for awhile) doesn’t mean she’s that good at combat
You may want to look up the definition of proficient:
Now contrast that to expert:
It is entirely possible for a proficient weapon user to be beaten by someone who is better than them. Whereas you are trying to make out that Dabbler is an incompetent beginner. If that were the case she would have been beaten in a moment (barring lucky flukes, which are pretty rare in actuality).
Notably in the one battle we saw Dabbler did manage to hold her own, for some time. Demonstrating competency with the weapons. She was good, but just was not as good as Heavenly Sword.
Dabbles dabbles in everything, including adventuring: she may be good enough to survive, butt true adventuring requires more than just being ‘good enough’
Dabbles reliance on her magic and gadgets makes her cocky and slightly arrogant, both of which could lead to her death or those around her
Well as to your claim that Dabbler is ‘just good enough to survive’, you are rather contradicting Dave’s blog about her above:
Now I am not disputing that Dabbler’s arrogance, as a result, is OK. Because she is now on a planet that has supers on it. So she needs to realise that she is no longer the biggest fish in the pond.
But to say that ‘Dabbler is reliant on her magic and her gadgets’ is wrong, to a big degree. Dabbler has the broadest range of capabilities of anybody in the setting. If magic does not work, then she can use high-tech gadgets, if those fail, then she can whip out her sword.
If that does not work she can resort to her mental powers. Or Dabbler can seduce her foes.
*pauses for breath*
Strip her naked, put her in an anti-magic field, and surround her with robots that are immune to mental powers and seduction… and she still has more capabilities.
Dabbler could grab one of their weapons and make use of it. She has three star marksmanship (only one point short of Peggys!). Think that she would be unable to disarm someone? Her martial arts are just below Maths! At four star to Math’s five.
Which is why Dabbler can beat both Math (if she is allowed to use her magic) and Maxima. She is arrogant because she can beat the most powerful person even on this planet with all its supers!
But, as Maxima was at pains to point out, all supers/supernaturals/Dabbler have opponents who are paper to their rock, or scissors to their paper. So you are absolutely right that she needs to rain in her arrogance.
Fortunately Maxima was wise enough to put Sydney there, to make sure that she has Dabbler’s back. It would be very hard for any foe to overcome their combined capabilities. And Maxima is close enough to respond rapidly, to any call for help, if they do bite off more than they can chew.
Not at all. I have, somewhere in these comment pages, pointed out that pieces of the constructs could survive an explosion, and that the constructs can reassemble themselves.
However I also went on to point out that melting them into slag (and unspoken, but implied, their piece of blade too) would likely cure that problem. Previously it was only an issue because the key bits were undamaged so could pull off the rebuilding trick. Maxima was able to stop that by applying enough brute force to the problem.
Dabbler is super smart and has attempted to do the same. Now whether she has judged it right, that remains to be seen. Likewise she was not the only one following the fight. Sciona did too. So she may have taken countermeasures of her own. But only if she had time to implement them in this base.