Grrl Power #607 – A magnificent proposal
Wow Deus is getting all the action these days. The other guys in the comic might need to step up their game.
So we’re back from the little Harem flashback now. I didn’t put a caption up in the leading corner of the page cause I thought it’d be obvious, but just in case I’m mentioning it here.
Given that Sciona already survived having most of her head chopped off, Vale’s comment about her being “very slightly harder to kill” should tell you something about where her bar is for such activities. Assuming she’s not just posturing.
Yeah, Deus’s proposal is objectifying, but I think I’d be a little flattered if someone implied it’d be worth $80 million dollars to sleep with me. What, you thought Deus meant $10 million when he said eight figures? That’s cause you think smaller than him.
Is it just me, or is Deus kind of channeling Nick Cage there in that middle panel?
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Just based on recent activities, I’d suspect Deus spends some effort in sexing up all the high power supers he can. With a guy as calculating as Deus one might be suspicious of ulterior motive outside of checking off the fetish list. I wouldn’t put it past him to have some kind of non-sexing-related power that’s somehow tied to sexing. Something that would put other supers off getting with him if they knew he had that kind of power.
You mean, like a super STD that drains supers of their powers? Or puts them into his thrall?
I’m thinking something more like a future effect that is seeded and can be triggered later or something passive and difficult to detect. It wouldn’t be something that’s easily associated with him. Maybe something that causes probability between him and the partner to work in his favor. Maybe it grants him access to some aspect of their mind/body.
Mmm, clever thinking. So not necessarily a sexual power, it could just be one that has limitations such as ‘requires touch’ or ‘takes extra time to activate’.
Although if he has both then it would push it into him either needing to have sex or really violate people’s personal space in an obtrusive way.
… along the lines of your thinking… perhaps even a power that requires a large amount of skin-to-skin contact for an extended period of time. The only way that he can get away with doing it in a non-obvious way is via consensual intimacy. (Also gives our non-sexy heroes a bonus; Peggy wouldn’t be interested and Halo would be suspicious… especially given that she’s aware of Deus’ propensity to bang various supers.)
I think an awesome power for Deus would be making his enemies/opponents have poor judgement in critical moments. Like Max choosing to date him, or Harem sexin’ it up during her spy mission, etc. Could also explain his amazing success in the business world and/or politics.
Something pheremonal and/or requiring ‘exchange of DNA’…and yes, I meant *KISSING*, ya pervs! Maybe even with a passive secondary power that enhances his nookie skills (or more likely, sets up a chemical response/reward feedback loop), so his partners *want* to come back to him.
Man, if something like that is in the works, that’s both potentially ‘super’ ;) insidious, and an AWESOME power for a ‘villain’ like Deus. :)
I was thinking that Deuce was more than likely trying to Purdue’s errors even if it was with the delayed effect it was spread his bloodline among as many groups of superpowers and extra normal people as possible. Because of this maxima would be a high class Target being as powerful as she is. Scifright being a elf could also be a desirable bloodline for him to feed his descendants into.
given how quickly Sciona has set aside her pride for whatever she is looking for, and given how common it is for Supernatural female creatures to have sex based thrall powers I think Deus should be the one rethinking this plan…that or she infects him with a tiny drop of her blood that crystalizes later in his heart to kill him as a going away present for this.
-blood magic has so many options, blood thrall, blood bending assassination timebombs, going full gusto and blasting his torso apart with a blood bolt during the act…although to avoid Vale a subtle option would work better.
Unless it’s like, absorbing some measure of power from contact/getting samples for some use, still strikes me as pretty skeezy.
Lifeforce Drainer maximum skin contact for maximum pull he is just not very strong at it and barley can pull 2 for 1 in best conditions, it just so happens it creates a effect simmiler the rough great sex so he uses that as a way to hide the sensation…or he is just a greedy horn dog and he has all the money he needs and is trying to keep her distracted long enough for the good guys to arrive.
Vibration power, weak pheromones, touch empathy/telepathy, lesser suggestion. All of these could qualify.
Also, been reading through the comments, and I feel I should point out…
Sciona disrobed herself.
The angles are weird, but neither Vale nor Deus forcibly disrobed Sciona. I had to do a double-take myself, but she’s stepping out of her weird squishy magical armor stuff of her own accord.
That said, I’m not a big fan of the reverse prostitution going on (selling something for sex as opposed to buying sex), although I feel i should mention that I have less problem with the regular kind, and support rights for sex workers, and feel such businesses should be legally recognized, supply both genders, have mandatory health checkups, and preferably be employee owned to prevent exploitation.
Unfortunately even today the ingrained religious prohibitions against extra-marital sex and codifying of those religious prohibitions into secular law makes that extremely difficult to get anyone to support in spite of the industry’s popularity making it clear that unlike what some want to claim it’s very popular with a large customer base. People though who frequent prostitutes are forced to actively pretend that they don’t and at publicly like they’re opposed to it rather than support striking the laws off the books and making it a safe, legal industry.
There are initiatives which have been done in a number of countries. Not all are as strongly influenced by religion as America is by the Bible-belt. For instance Germany has authorised prostitution zones (I think in a number of cities, but can’t be bothered to check). The one which did stick in my memory though was the drive-in one.
It did have several sensible features. For instance there were garage-like bays that cars could park in. Where you could not see from one bay into another. But which were otherwise open (providing easy escape routes, and the security that the girls could keep a watch on one-another, from a discreet distance).
Cleverly enhanced by the bay not having enough clearance on the driver’s side to open the door, but enough on the passenger’s side (and a curb to ensure that the driver did not just park with it the other way around).
I seem to recall seeing a follow-up article that the scheme was not being taken up well. But could have mixed that up with one of the various other initiatives around Europe. There have been enough that they blur together. Some succeeding, whilst others fail.
Nevada in the US also allows it to be legal, but their restrictions on it specifically prevent it from becoming a unionized or employee-owned business (which if any industry needs that, it’s prostitution).
Although I myself have never availed of the services, I once had a roommate who worked in a legal aspect of the industry, and was more than willing to spend hours talking at length about the problems faced. Legality of the field does nothing to slow it, as law cannot overpower human instincts – just redirect them. And on that point, there is no descent alternative if you’re not socially capable enough to get partner in a less expensive manner. So the only reasonable thing to do is at least make sure it’s handled well, since it has to be handled.
Thanks for pointing that out. I thought Deus had some sort of weird bug thing subduing Sciona. Now the page makes a lot more sense to me. It felt like a very jarring transition otherwise. I was like what its that thing on her back and how did Sciona get captured
I know Dave likes to squeeze a lot into his pages but sometimes for the sake of clarity its better to use fewer panels to tell the story better.
Welcome. It took me a moment the first time, and reading through comments I saw a lot were coming to a misconception about it, so I thought getting a post near the top and putting it in big bold letters would help Dave a bit until the next page where he could clarify. :)
Just because Sci-fright is comfortable in her naked form, does not equate to her being ready to have sex with anyone, she emphatically stated the opposite in fact
+1
Very, very true… just like her being comfortable with torture, betrayal, murder, and mass murder (up to and including genocide) doesn’t mean she’s ready to have sex with just anyone.
We can’t assume normal ethics or responses from her. I can picture this being handled akin to rape for her (depending on how bad she needs whatever). I can also picture her ethics being so far out there that sex is just a head game to her and she doesn’t have sex when she can more easily commit murder.
“Murder”? “Mass murder”? “Genocide”? What? Where was it mentioned anywhere that Sci-fright committed any of those acts?
Well, she did send a bunch of murder golems breaking down the Council’s door. Given that only goes as far as attempted mass murder since Maxima and ARc put a boot down hard.
Indeed. Plus it is a fair assumption that if she intended to steal a vault full of apocalypse weapons that she may have had it in mind to use them. Deus probably has more interesting variety planned, and does not get kicks from needless killing. Whereas Sciona seems a bit less convoluted and ruthless enough not to care.
Except… she was only after a few items, possibly only the one item personally, she seems more pissed that SmugD was coat-tailing on her heist rather than it stopping her from taking what she wanted (she got what she came for, Lia got what she hired on for, she no longer cared about the rest, and what happened next was because of SmugD)
You don’t get to attempt to murder someone and pass the blame off on to someone else for frustrating you! Sciona was the one who shoved Wyrmil’s head into a death-field. That falls on her conscience.
Whilst you remain convinced that Sciona wants back an item from some unknown other location, Occam’s Razor indicates that she is after one of the items that Deus took from the Dark Reliquary.
And regardless of the above Sciona is still 100% the one who attempted the mass murder of the Twilight Council leadership.
She is wanting more than just a single item
Yes, attempted, if only she had succeeded
It could also be argued that it was a distraction to force the Super Secret Underground Council to divert power from the security surrounding the Vault
Yes, she shoved Wyrmil’s head through the death-field, fairly sure there were more than a few people at the time speculating that she did that knowing he would recover from it, it could also be argued she did that because of Deus’ unwanted crashing of the heist
Then Sciona should have taken more than a single item. Deus even gave her a shopping list of examples that she was free to claim.
All your attempted line of defence does is escalate Sciona’s crime from “attempted mass murder” to “attempted mass murder and conspiracy to theft”.
Sciona did not care whether Wyrmil lived or died. As it was he would have, if not for rebuilding himself with bits of Cooter. Who Sciona did actually murder.
Is there any particular reason why you are trying to defend a heinous mass murderer to such boring lengths? Her crimes are very clear and really pointless trying to defend.
None of which have any bearing on whether Deus is just unpleasant or something more sinister. The character of the victim, if that is what she is, is irrelevant in such matters.
Could ask you (and The Lawyer) why you are defending SmugD so much?
Not claiming that Sci-fright is innocent, just pointing out some explanations behind her actions
SmugD is guilty of murder, plotting murder, conspiracy to murder, staging a coup, orchestrating a coup, and conspiracy to theft
Oh, and Sci-fright did not mass murder anyone, she may have planned and attempted mass murder butt she hasn’t killed anyone (at least, none that stayed dead longer than 30 minutes), whereas SmugD has… oh wait, no, he had Lia do it so his hands could remain ‘clean’
As for why am ‘defending’ Sci-fright? Everyone else is so quick to sling allegations at her when we know very little about her or her motivations
When false allegations are made about someone we defend them.
Staging a coup (in another country) is not a crime. You may recall that the US attempted such at the Bay of Pigs.
History is written by the victors. Having successfully staged a coup and brought the heir onboard, Deus’s actions are whatever the new ruler deemed them to be. Given Deus’s liberty to do what he wishes, that doubtless involved a pardon, or some similar arrangement, which exonerated Deus for his actions.
Well she probably shouldnt have left in a huff after attempting to murder everyone left in the vault (after she was done trying to murder one of her partners also).
And she did that to Wyrmil because that was her plan – not because Deus was there.
She didn’t leave anything behind in the Vault, what SmugD had arranged to steal from her was at one of her hideouts
You know all about Sci-frights’ motivations and plans? Betting she planned ahead of time to smash that marble pillar in SmugD’s office, right?
Whilst you may have that for you headcanon don’t expect anyone else to be swayed by your theory. There has been zero mention or implication by anyone that Deus raided her hideouts.
And no I am not interested in you saying yet again why you believe that. Repeating it does not make it any more believable, no matter how often you say it.
“She didn’t leave anything behind in the Vault, what SmugD had arranged to steal from her was at one of her hideouts”
No offense Guesticus, but where the heck did you get THAT from? Deus took items from the Vault. Not her hideouts. He literally showed her what his plan was and the shopping list, and that he would not take the items that she and her teammates wanted to take. Then after she betrayed her own teammates and tried to murder one of them, she decided to have a hissy fit and break a column before leaving without any other items except the ONE item she really wanted, forcing Deus to have to rush to take whatever they could before they had to leave or die. And he paid the other teammates who helped him collect the goods as well.
And where are you getting that she left something behind? And if she had, how would she know that SmugD had taken it? Did she go back to the Vault and look? Or did she *BLINK* off back to one of her hideouts to mope and find someone else had been there?
You are smart, which is more likely?
Because she left everything behind!
Because the guy literally had a shopping trolley and had stated his intent to empty the place (barring the stuff that Sciona and her team may put dibs on)!
No she is taking it that Deus is not totally incompetent and can actually put items in a shopping trolley! He already proved that he could get the artefacts out of the death field with negligible ease, using the rack of bamboo plants.
The smart thing to realise is that we very obviously have a source of items being taken, which Sciona considered hers, because she was in the process of stealing them. Of which it appears that one in particular is something she wanted.
The very fact that she flew into a murderous rage and teleported out in a hissy fit gives us ample evidence of how she could have forgotten even something that she considers important.
All of the elements needed to understand Sciona being miffed and wanting her item back are already present in the story. Whereas you are adding the following:
1) A base or bases that Sciona has (bearing in mind that we saw her one at the Mars factory being raided, so you are assuming that she has others in addition to that).
2) That Deus has managed to find the location of this secret base.
3) That Deus decided to stop looting the rooms full of incredibly powerful items to go off to Sciona’s base.
4) Somehow Deus is able to defeat Sciona’s wards. Which were capable of detecting an invisible stealth specialised super, who is an expert in magic. And who already figured out how some of Sciona’s magic worked. Bear in mind that if (as you suggested once before) Deus did this prior to coming to the vault then he risked the ward alerting Sciona. Plus even disabling it may make her aware that some tampering had occurred.
All of which is indicating that Deus has the means of overcoming magic. Whilst he is rich enough to afford a specialist, we have not seen such a person, so this is another element you are introducing.
5) You seem to be forgetting that if Deus went off to loot Sciona’s base, how come she did not see him there, when she teleported back to it? Or if he had looted it before he went to the vault, how come she did not spot the wards were down, her guards disabled, and her big safe had a hole cut in it?
So you have to either explain how he avoided her seeing him there or spotting the intrusion had already happened, and teleporting straight back.
And every point you make, to try and explain all of these problems, makes your explanation the less likely and the straight forward one the more likely.
The smart person goes with the simplest option. Simply because that is usually the correct one. Yours is possible mind. But you are being foolish to elevate it to being the only possible solution, to the extent of ignoring the readily available one. Compounded by arguing that one is not possible. Which is ludicrous.
Numerous hideouts were associated with Sciona back before the Mars incident. That’s why Syndey had only a small, Maxima-less team with her.
I agree with everything else but we have, in fact, seen plenty to suggest that she had more than one base.
Good point Spicefreak.
Fortunately the fact that it has the word “numerous” in it goes to show that my weak point can have a good replacement one. Namely that Deus would need to have figured out which base, amongst all the others, was the one that had the significant item in it.
And I can throw in that he would also need to avoid being spotted by Archon teams searching for these bases. Plus, even though he could choose to send a minion to raid it, whilst he knew Sciona was in the vault, he would not be able to tell if an Archon team was just about to raid the place. Or, worse still, had already discovered it and were lying in wait.
What has been proposed is a seriously high risk enterprise. Getting caught burglarising a property would seriously compromise Deus’s position with Archon. Even if it was a minion rather than Deus himself, they could well strike a deal to inform on him.
And juggling that with the massively profits that Deus could turn from all the vault items, just to gain one widget, would be silly.
Do the break in before Deus enters the vault and Sciona could be alerted by a ward (or by sensing that it is no longer functioning). So realises that someone knowledgeable is moving against her. And may take precautions to prevent whoever that is following her to the Dark Reliquary. Such as by (temporarily) reinforcing the teleportation wards that she had weakened in order to get in.
Deus can wave bye bye to all the artefacts he wanted!
Whereas doing the break in whilst Deus is confronting Sciona, means that, when she teleports out, she catches the minion in the act.
Bye bye minion! And possibly Sciona might be pissed off enough to teleport into a military base to pick up a bomb or nuke, and drop that off back in the vault! No skin off her nose as (apparently) the only thing she is interested is back in her base, not in the vault.
Guesticus:
“And where are you getting that she left something behind?”
From where she was asked by Deus if she left something behind because she left in such a huff that she didn’t bother getting other stuff that she wanted. You know…. by reading the comic. Not reading into whatever headcanon you’re using that was never mentioned in the comic and has no basis in the comic.
“And if she had, how would she know that SmugD had taken it?”
Because he literally said he was going to take as much as he could OTHER than what Sciona’s group was taking, which he would not take. He had a shopping list.
“Did she go back to the Vault and look?”
Doubtful that she went back to the vault, since she broke a pedestal intentionally in order to spread the death field to try to make sure anyone who stayed in there for any significant length of time would die.
“Or did she *BLINK* off back to one of her hideouts to mope and find someone else had been there?”
Where are you getting that she found that ANYONE was in her hideouts. This never happened in the comic. You’re literally making up stuff.
To be fair, she succeeded in killing the main character of the comic, Sydney, along with Pixel, along with several other unidentified individuals. Only reason they’re alive is because Crona undid it with her time shinannigans (localized time shinannigans, mind you, so the Sciona alive did kill one two Sydneys that have been in her existance.)
Guesticus said:
“Murder”? “Mass murder”? “Genocide”? What? Where was it mentioned anywhere that Sci-fright committed any of those acts?
———–
She sent killer mannequins to murder the Council, loaded with specialized ammunition intended to be lethal and leading with explosives. That’s attempted mass murder. Then she hung Pixel and a couple others up to bleed them. That’s torture. Then she (nearly?) killed Sydney. Then she handed the Epimorph off to Cynthilia says “here you go, you’ll need to kill 99 people to recharge it”. She’s very clearly comfortable with murder, mass murder, and torture. Genocide, I grant, we’ve seen no evidence of that I can recall.
Genocide is implied by seeking to acquire a vault full of items which have been sealed away because they have the potential to destroy the world. That would include genocide, in the deal.
So in this case it would be ‘intending to cause genocide’, as opposed to her having done it. Destroying the world is one of those crimes that you hope Archon will always have the prefix ‘attempted’ or ‘conspiracy to commit’ on the front of the charges.
Is killing literally everyone actually genocide, though? Doesn’t genocide usually involve a prejudice against and targeting of a specific subset?
Yes. Multiple counts thereof. And elevated to a crime that should be on the statute books but which is not. Namely extinction.
Do note that there was an inertia in having even genocide recognised as a crime in its own right. Due to the vested interests of leaders and politicians who wished to have the freedom of killing off whatever groups they chose.*
At the moment America would heavily resist ‘endangering extinction’ from being recognised as a greater crime than genocide. As that would open the flood gates for prosecutions regarding exacerbating climate change.
Whilst climate sceptics would leap in to argue that the chances of extinction are low, that is not a debate that the powers that be wish to happen. Not when it is them in the dock, and their necks which would end up in the noose!
Often it does, yes. But it can and has extended to multiple groups too. The Nazis did not just kill Jews, but also gays, gypsies, other ethnic minorities, Jehovah’s witnesses and other groups too. Each of those is an act of genocide. So the Nazis committed multiple counts.
* And don’t go picturing the wrong nations here. You should have Britain and America amongst your mental images. They both feature heavily in the history of concentration camps (and England as regards an early holocaust).
I think is Spice’s point is that if it’s everyone, it’s not genocide the same way that accidental manslaughter isn’t murder. It’s a difference in intent.
Everyone might better qualify as specicide or lifeicide?
Errr… no. Absolutely not.
Someone who commits mass murder is still also committing several individual murders. Just because it is his intention to kill a crowd of people does not mean he is not intending to kill individuals. It is literally impossible to kill many people without individuals dying.
The various terms such as ‘mass murderer’, ‘serial killer’ and the like are mostly just matters of convenience for law enforcement agencies and the press to have convenient labels to give to someone who murders more than once.
You will however find that each and every murder that they get charged with (the ones that have a reasonable chance of being proven in court) will be individually listed. Regardless of what headline sells the most newspapers.
Likewise if you choose to kill everyone on the planet (and assuming that those few humans on the International Space Station, plus alien abductees and Elvis are not enough to form a stable breeding population), then you are committing extinction, several hundred (or thousand) counts of genocide and 7.6 billion counts of murder!
The only way intent comes into it is if one of the devices is accidentally activated, or if the true scope of its power is under estimated. So the latter could result in a charge of ‘murder’ and ‘accidental genocides’ and billions of manslaughter counts. Whilst the former would be ‘accidental extinction, genocide and manslaughter’ counts.
Not that it would be much consolation for the folks on the ISS as their air runs out, and they join the rest of humanity in extinction. Unless aliens pick them up and take them off to see an Elvis concert.
She’s been blowing up the council’s illusion generators. Those generators are there to prevent a genocidal race war. What do we think will happen if they fail? Not all of the species are ready to step into the light.
She’s doing the equiv of blowing up dams and simply not caring about the cities under them.
+1
What everyone seems to be forgetting, is Deus claimed he didn’t have what Sci-fright claimed he stole, butt he would be willing to let her have a look to prove it, for a price, he’s not selling her (or returning) anything
Just so. Although it is safest to modify it to say “… not necessarily selling …”.
Deus has twisted things from the literal meaning of his words, rather than the intent that he projects, a number of times. But he may not always do that.
Mind you, if he does actually sell (or give/return) her item, that would push him strongly towards the villain camp. Unless there are strong mitigating circumstances (such as the item not being intrinsically evil or useful in harming society).
If he is selling her anything, then that would mean he did steal it from her (and then blatantly lied about it), in which case, it’s not his to sell, let alone back to her
The first does not prove the second.
As to the remainder, ‘possession is nine tenths of the law’.
The other one tenth is that Vale is tougher than Sciona, and Sciona has alienated the only organisation which would have an interest in enforcing legal ownership claims for a super.
Guess that justifies everything then
It is not so much a justification as a statement of the current situation.
Sciona has failed to provide any substantive evidence to back up her claim of ownership. As it stands she appears to be relying on the statement that ‘I wanted it’. Well if she did she should have stayed and picked it up. Deus made it very clear that he would not contest anything she wished to take.
So having opted not to lay claim to ‘her property’, it is now Deus’s. If she wants to challenge that she should do so in court. Except she has chosen to put herself outside of the rule of law, so cannot take that option. And she is too weak to enforce her claim alone.
Kinda sucks being a villain, when you find out that you are not the toughest bully on the block, eh?
Actually, she never said “I wanted it”, she said “Where is it, Deus!?” followed by “I’m not paying you a damn thing! Turn it over! All of it!”, which implies greater that he had one of his slackeys break into one of her hideouts and steal a quantity of items, probably blood samples or other similarities, where upon Vale puts her hands on her face and pushes her back, Sci-fright had only pointed her finger at Deus
No it does not.
*yawns*
Or, more pointedly, she wants him to turn over “all of it” because she doesn’t want him to know what object it is. That would tip her hand on her plans.
Her “where is it” comment could have been an angered hand tipping. She realized she forgot grab something she needed when Deus angered her in the vault and she pulled her “death field leak” stunt. Then she realized/remembered that Deus is typically calm, collected, and just as calculating as she is when she’s not temper-mental (intentional misspell).
So asking for just the object in question that she forgot to take from the vault would give him valuable information, and leverage. That’s my view, anyway.
Extremely good observations.
I have not handed out one of these for ages, but it is well deserved!
*awards a shiny gold star*
It really is and one that, I for one, failed to notice till brought up.
Thank you both!
I am the ST (or GM, if you prefer) for a long standing RPG, and I enjoy politically charged, backstabbing, calculating, ‘out-think/outmaneuver’ your opponent type stories over the typical hack-n-slash. :)
This means I try not to read into things too much, but think about the motivations and behaviors seen so far, and put that in frame of the text. … … … anyhow. Taking my shiny gold star and putting it on my wall! Boom! lol
It’s one of the reasons I like this comic. Sure, there’s action, there’s serious stuff, there’s fluff, there’s beef- and cheese-cake galore… but Dave has obviously spent a lot of time figuring out the personalities and drives of his characters, and that makes for good stories.
No real need for me to comment here since Yorp is pretty much saying what I would say.
CHanneling Nick Cage…hmmm, Deus’s eyes arent bugging out crazily enough for that lol!
“Not the bees!”
What a fuss over nothing. The guy who taught me bee-keeping used to do that as a regular demonstration. A beard of bees is just stylish, not something to bee afraid of!
As for shouting and wriggling around like that, is he trying to get himself stung? Silly fellow.
*swishes tail scornfully*
Add a bit of oil of lemongrass, and you can do anything with bees.
Heh, I think I like that guy’s sense of humor.
His acting has made me laugh.
Said genuinely, rather than cattily, as he has done some good one-liners and situation comedy type scenes.
no! not my evil cutie! Deus can’t have her, she’s mine!
Heh.
So, when did you fall for her? The first time we laid eyes on her? Or was it not until she bested our protagonist?
And I must say that you do show loyalty, in fancying her, even when she has lost her fangs!
Sciona started at diabolically cunning and resourceful with a spectacular will to live. She’s only steadily gone up in attractiveness from there. Including yielding with relative grace when the field’s tipped against her.
I’ll be a little sad to see her move on from center stage. Her new equilibrium could be pretty damn formidable.
Such a progressively modern person.
Alas I am much more shallow. A girl has to be at least cute, or at an absolute minimum not a mass murderess, to catch my attention. Then, beyond that, all the strength of character stuff kicks in.
Hmm, and yet, you like SmugD, who is neither cute nor a girl, and has zero character strength…
I never claimed that, and do not.
Although she did used to have more impressive teeth than humans. :-D
Which word is Vale warning Sci-fright about using? ‘Mortal’? or ‘Sully’?
Given her talk about how easy it would be to kill her, that would be ‘Mortal’. Plus Sciona herself gave emphasis to the word, so it stands out doubly.
There might be a trope term for this, not sure what though. But its kind of a “bigger fish” scenario. Having the overly proud being who is centuries if not thousands of years old who looks down on “mortals” bragging about being some eternal horror of the night that humanity’s ancestors feared as they spoke around the village fire…and is doing so to the avatar of an Eldritch Abomination or Galactus or something.
Mortal. She’s warning Sciona to not try to kill Deus, since she’d be quite capable of killing Sciona before that can happen.
You know… like a bodyguard.
I’m gonna be quite surprised if they’re not actually after pictures, considering the previous interactions with Maxima. If they are shooting pictures, it’s probably Vale who needs them…
Also, is Vale putting on a new jacket in panel 5 or is she showing Sciona something menacing to prove her point?
Okay, I’m calling that they just want to shoot pictures. Which actually has a purpose.
“Vale, are these good enough for framing?”
I recently saw an episode of A.T.O.M. and now i can’t stop hearing Clancy Brown as Deus…
Great I was so focused on finding Nic Cage that I missed how Vale had another woman inside her… in a fun way.
Umm, no, Sci-fright was never ‘in’ Vale on this page, at all
On this page, true. However previously Sciona’s wing was inside Vale’s skull.
Sadly there is rule 34 covering that. Well maybe not the wing part.
I thought Scyona was coming out from INSIDE the Vale on this page. That she hid inside from the task force. But now that I took a better look she’s stepping out of her armor instead – damn it =(
It’s a common error
What, really? Deus is willing to trade powerful artifacts… for sex? That seems beneath him… I lose some respect.
Willing to trade a look at powerful artifacts for sex.
Within certain limits – Male for one. And it seems the looker must be a “looker”.
Assume money was never mentioned – would it be all right then?
For someone like him, it is kinda equivalent to “want to come up to my place and see my etchings?”
Glad to see someone else remembers the details
The fact that he’s commodifying sex at all is the issue. Note it also puts him in a compromised position- aside from physical visibility, it’s something that’d cost him a lot if word got out, and is less deniable than Sciona having an artifact that was in his possession (she must’ve gotten it before Vale kicked her out etc.’).
Basically, it comes across to me as *stupid*, and he’s never been stupid before. That and while he’s had a variety of partners, he’s never turned to paying for it directly before, and with a not-enthusiastic partner, which puts things in a different, skeezier context.
So yea, respect points -10.
With Sciona it looks like he’s playing a double game.
First, he wants her to have the artifact she’s come to acquire. It could be because he knows that to not give it to her would turn her into a dangerous enemy he doesn’t need. If the artifact isn’t important to him, letting her get what she wants makes good sense.
But appearances are an issue; she can’t pay whatever they both know it’s worth, and he can’t be seen to be backing down to her demand. He’d “lose.” He could simply trade it for a future favor, but that wouldn’t earn him any respect, either; she’d (correctly) think he’s an idiot since he already knows very well how she keeps her word.
On the other hand, letting her “buy” the artifact with sex is a quid-pro-quo as old as time. So Deus would consider this an acceptable out that lets him hand over the artifact without losing status.
There’s also the risk factor; Deus is driven to match himself against powerful and dangerous women (thus his “courtship” of Maxima). It’s a form of thrill-seeking founded on his megalomania, and by putting himself in Sciona’s hands (even with a bodyguard present), he both acts on that impulse and possibly scores a point in whatever status-game he’s playing with Sciona. In her thinking, he must be very well aware that pushing her to trade sex for what she wants might Fatally Piss Her Off, making her an enemy. So by pushing it, Deus is subtly saying “I don’t care.”
Of course he DOES care, or else he would have refused to give her the artifact for less than he thought it worth in the first place. So, again, he’s playing a dangerous game. And loving it.
Umm, no, he’s not selling her anything, he is only charging her a looking fee
And what she is looking for is something of hers that SmugD stole, or, at the least, arranged to be stolen
*Sigh* really?
Playing Devil’s Advocate yet again…how *evil* is Sciona? She’s in opposition to The Council, certainly…but does that make, for example, Luke Skywalker evil? How many boring normal schmoes did Luke evaporate when he blew up the Death Star?
Sure, The Council has `agreements’ with various governments…but so did the Empire. To the Rebel Alliance, Imperial Everything was EVIL, not a tear shed for the collateral civilian damage their actions caused. Judging by what we’ve *seen*, could Sciona conceivably be GRRLPOWERVERSE’s version of Luke? Why was her head cut off? Was she unjustly accused of a crime? Dabbling in `forbidden magic’ which was forbidden…why? Do we know? Maybe The Council overthrew her democratically elected representative government of her particular brand of Other, and declared *they* were now the Powers That Be! As President-In-Exile, she’s honorbound to fight the would-be conquerors…
Sure, her actions toward her hirelings haven’t been shown to be exactly positive, but if that’s the only option open to her…how many pilots did Admiral Akbar sacrifice on the Death Star raid? How many of them were actually bright enough to know what was being asked of them?
As for paying for sex…well, it’s primarily a barter commodity any way you look at it. Civilization makes up rules for when/how it’s okay to indulge, but there’s always a price tag one way or the other. Romantic love wasn’t even a consideration until what, the fifteenth or sixteenth century? Even among the peasantry and serfs, it was about family alliances. Even today, with our `modern’ views, there’s an exchange of suitable `value’. We’ve been on X dates, s/he makes me feel Y…at least cash on the table is clear and unmistakable and really, if Sciona is okay with it (she was seriously considering it even before Deus made his boast)…if she’s agreeable for whatever reason, who are we to say she shouldn’t? Let’s face it, every single one of us here has put out when we’re not really in the mood just to avoid the potential for future drama…
Okay, bring on the stakes and pitchforks.
You make a great point about how ‘evil’ Sci-fright is, so far, we have only had The Council’s word, and even they haven’t said what her alleged crimes were
As for the last part: is paying sex just to have a look at SmugD’s inventory a good enough trade?
Specially considering panel four
Oh, and personally, have never ‘put out’ for anything
We do know she had a ‘blood-fruit’ tree when Halo investigated that warehouse and got herself killed/reset.
So not what one might consider “good”, whatever her reasons. And certainly not someone you would consider trustworthy…
We don’t know who the ‘fruit’ was, they could have been Council operatives who had been sent to finish her off, or even the ones who failed to do the job properly in the first place
Oh, and never said she was a nice or good person
“How many boring normal schmoes did Luke evaporate when he blew up the Death Star?”
Probably several orders of magnitude less people than the Empire killed when they blew up an entire planet as a demonstration. A planet of civilians too, compared to a battlestation populated with military personnel.
The average estimate is at about 1 to 2 million persons and about a half million droids as official crew.
Other estimates put the number, including all the crews of the support vehicles, at 30 million*.
https://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/blue/dsblue2.gif
*plus or minus any visiting princesses, smugglers, or retired Jedi.
It strikes me as dumb of Deus to even put it on the table. It doesn’t make me think less of Sciona, it does make me think less of him (and he couldn’t think of any other way for the powerful mage to pay? Really?).
Ask Wyrmil or Cooter how evil Sciona is :)
Ask most of the Death Star raid pilots how evil Admiral Akbar is…oh, wait, you *can’t* because most of them died so Luke could Force-fling a torpedo and murdalize millions of relatively innocent Imperials workers!
Point is…evil is generally in the eye of the beholder. You say Wyrmil or Cooter are valid examples, I might say they were pretty evil (or incredibly stupid) and got what they played for.
Actually that would be defense of others. The Death Star was about to fire on another planet and kill millions more. After it already murdered millions on Alderan. Which all those Death Star Imperial workers were part of.
And yes, I’m sure most of them were not in a position to say no. But that’s war. In war, soldiers die. Even the ones who are just following orders. They were on the evil side.
Not that I like saying anything that can be considered Godwin’s Law, but it’s like saying that in World War 2, German soldiers were killed – they were literally nazis though. I’m not lamenting the death of nazis, and I’m not lamenting the death of imperial soldiers (I mean c’mon, the grunt forces are called Stormtroopers – it’s intentional), who are pretty much the equivalent of ‘space nazis.’
You saying that there were millions of rebels? All on one little abandoned planet? o_O
Not every German soldier was part of the German National Socialists Party, just like not every US soldier was a Republican, or even Jewish
The Earth has 7.6 billion people on it, (excluding dogs, cats, cetaceans, octopi, elephants and other great apes) and we are way below the technology of that galactic civilisation, so our population levels will be tiny compared to theirs (in the more intensively populated areas).
Even if we abandon Earth and evacuate 99.9% of the people there would still be 7.6 million inhabitants. Yet it is estimated that it would only take a few decades for plants to restore the landscape to a natural-appearing state.
So look at any random spot on the planet, from the air, and it will seem to be pristine wilderness. With perhaps one small settlement in the distance, but then only if you know which way to look. So pretty much matching the footage we saw in the documentary.
Oh, I was just focusing on the numbers, rather than the proportion of them who may be rebels.
We have no idea of the ratio. So we could just guess a 50/50 split in sympathies (with most not being active rebels, but who may discreetly buy a rebel a pint in the cantina).
However if it is the planet hosting the main rebel base it is fair to assume that they would actually choose one which was mostly if not totally supportive of the cause. There would be too much of a risk picking one that had a significant population supportive of the Empire. They would likely have the resources to get a message off planet.
Generally, planets have a lot of people on them, Guesticus. They’re planets. Millions is a low estimate. Also, Alderan didn’t only have rebels on it. It had a worldwide civilization. More likely billions. When I say millions for the rebel base on the planet around Endor or whatever the planet was, millions is probably a LOW estimate. You try to murder millions of people, don’t be surprised if someone kills you first to stop it from happening. You point a gun at someone, don’t be surprised if someone else with a gun shoots you before you can pull the trigger.
Wasn’t talking about Alderaan, but Yavin IV’s moon, the reason the Rebel’s were there was because it was abandoned, like that other base Leia tried to lead the Imperials to
There are millions of habitable planets in that galaxy, 90% of them will be empty of humanoid life
I wasn’t aware that Ewoks aren’t alive.
I have some bad news for you, about Miss Piggy and Kermit.
If all Ewoks are secretly Peter Dinklage, then killing even one of them is a crime against existence.
+1
5/5 Harems will agree with that second reason.
She likes to watch
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Guu-many_eyes_2782.jpg
avail yourself all of the wonderful things….
O_o
shouldn’t that be
“avail yourself of all the wonderful things…”
?
No. There are indeed wonderful things about being female. Including his main thrust about having sex. He is not being … I dunno … sarcastic?
OK he is just trying a line, so it should not be taken as being deep. All he is aiming for (to quote a particularly tacky line from Riddick) is “balls deep”.
Errr, I meant, grammar-wise, it doesn’t make sense the way it’s currently written… it reads like Yoda wrote it… read it aloud and you should hear what I mean…
I originally read the two lines three times each and they still looked identical, barring the quotation marks.
:-D
I think the first has a nice poetic ring to it. And it is the kind of slip up that occurs in natural dialogue (and it may have been chosen advisedly because it sounded a touch more exotic).
Given that sciona “expects to be impressed”,this doesn’t really strike me as much of a trade. If what deus was incredibly good at was muffler repair, would he offer her the artifact in exchange for the chance to fix her car? Sure, an auto mechanic may well enjoy having the chance to work on an exotic model, but still, if he’s doing her a favor as much as he is getting what he wants, how is he selling this McGuffin exactly? He could just as well have said “it’s not for sale, but if you’ll be my latest one night stand, I’ll make it your going away present afterwards.”
not mutually exclusive
Ewwww. Just ewww.
Good summary.
It’s going to be amazing if this was an elaborate wind up and all he just propositioned her for was a photo shoot or something.
Heh.
+1
Sorry I missed this.
Zoli, Misklano and I chew the fat on a similar theory down at https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2784/comment-page-3#comment-633151
Has anyone noticed that Deus does not seem to disrobe… even for sex? This suggests he maybe something other than vanilla human himself. Clothes make the man, so maybe his power suit is a magical eq u I valentine of a mecha.
Also, betting he is giving her a massage, not having sex here.
Or just that he gains confidence from wearing his suit. It is not uncommon, for folks to gain empowerment from clothes that are cut to make them look good. Plus the scenes cut away before anything above a 13 rating got going.
But, all that said, maybe. :-D
I’m seeing a lot of talk of Deus having powers. If there is something more than smarmy going on, it’s more reasonable to think he has an artifact rather than a natural ability. We know he’s spent years collecting before this series, and I don’t think he was born with that X on his face. I may have missed someone mentioning this already.
Did I miss a page? It feels like there should be another page where Sciona and Vale come back into the room with Deus…
Shh! We try to encourage Dave to skip unnecessary transition scenes.
Vale invited Sciona to come back and continue negotiations. Whilst warning her that he was a disreputable pervert. And here we are.
Just checking that it was what I thought it was.
Carry on!
Well, one supposes there is the whole, how long and where they hid till the search for them was called off. How Vale had to have called in and come back with some excuse and report to make about losing Sciona…Deus must hope Vale has no pride issue if called out later and assumed she lost to Sciona for Sciona to escape (looking at Sydney’s commenting here).
or watching till Maxima and Hiro left and Harem left, and the search ended ect…
I think it would be funny if this whole thing was a setup. As promised, Deus called ArcSWAT when Vale said she and Sciona were on their way back. He has now separated Sciona from her artifact-powered armor, and is in fact *between* her and the armor right now. And she’s not expecting an ambush. And she’s in Deus’ office, where I assume he’s got more than one high-tech gadget at his disposal (which I’m sure he’d rather keep secret, but if needs must…).
There’s never going to be a better chance of taking her into custody.
Note: I don’t think this is actually going to happen, as Sciona can then let Arc know that Deus is the one with all the loot from the Reliquary, and while I have no doubt that he could come up with a story as to why he has it and hasn’t said anything yet, he *surely* doesn’t want to give any of it back.
Oddly I was thinking much the same thing a few minutes ago.
I just was not in the mood for holding Deus up as a possible hero in disguise. I do that a lot and he kind of lets the side down here. Now the best I can do is hold him up as a skanky hero in disguise. If he is doing as you suggest.
If not he is harbouring someone who he knows the police are seeking. And his intelligence sources means he knows full well why, even if we never got to see what Maxima told him about Sciona.
Yorp, I gotta question your stance on this…yes, ARC is looking at Sciona as a person of interest/fugitive, etc…but as you argued so eloquently a few strips back, what has she done to merit it? No worse than Deus did, and you supported his actions, since basically, The Council’s super-secret vault was effectively abandoned.
So, what legal reason does ARC have to want to bring her in/down? Other than The Council’s wishes, which I personally consider suspect…
And does ARC have any jurisdiction over Sciona, anyway? If she’s not subject to The Council for whatever reason (deposed ruler The Council strong-armed, never signed their accords or treaties or whatever…) then whatever agreements The Council has with various governments don’t apply. Sure, United Nations, blah blah…but if Sciona doesn’t belong to a member nation…it gets tricky. I mean, America is a member nation, and *I* would damn sure resist some UN Peacekeepers dragging me out of my home or business because some asshat in Wherdafukkweat put out a bounty for me not replying to their e-mail scams.
And yeah, I’d totally hide you from the same Peacekeepers if you were in that situation. I know ARC is Da Good Guys (And Girls), but I also believe if you don’t question authority, you’re basically a few short steps from being a slave.
So…go, Deus! Stick it to Da Man! And…you know, stuff like that.
She is in the U.S. of A. so yes. Courts have jurisdiction over anybody in their territory.
Attempted to murder various police women and federal agents. And possibly actually murder one of them, even though she got better.
In addition to various counts of attempted murder, murder and piracy (I bet Sciona has not filed a salvage claim) Archon believe Sciona to be in possession of various items which they have good reason to believe constitute weapons of mass destruction.
Weirdly enough possession of WMD is not actually illegal under international treaties.
However Sciona’s acts can be characterised as being of a terrorist nature. So it would be easy enough to invoke whatever anti-terror legislation the US has to cover possession of devices capable of killing lots of folks (other than lovely guns, because they are OK).
Sciona’s history of attacking police and others, with an intent to kill, and (the police believing) her to be in possession of WMDs makes her a clear and present danger. With all the implications which come with that.
OK I Love this webcomic. Sydney, Dabbler, Math, Maxima, Deus are all very powerful, singular, individual characters and thank you so much for this story Dave. I hope you do not take any of this recent commentary personally and continue with these amazing plot lines.
Sci-frights level of need for her lost item determines the nature of Deus’s offer. If she needs it to live he is essentially withholding food/water/air unless she sleeps with him, depending on her time frame of need.
If she just wants the item very strongly than he is tempting her, very strongly, to try him on for size and she how well they fit together. This is arguably “icky”, but icky is an emotional, subjective experience. We all feel “icky” about different things. Deus and Sciona are massively powerful entities to whom all things are negotiable. This might even qualify as flirting between two megalomaniacs. I remember a story where a dragon was seducing another dragon by offering to merge their hoards. To each their own.
The possibility that Deus is not playing an angle approaches Absolute Zero. When has he not had an ulterior motive. If Sciona agrees than she obviously has a clearly stated motive besides lots of orgasms.
One very real effect of great sex is the creation of a bond, however small or even perhaps cynical in this case, between all the partners involved. In this sort of universe magical bonds are a real possibility of course, which several people have already mentioned. But I mean simple, normal, human bonds. Sciona has been in a body that based on appearances alone knew nothing of joy, pleasure or compassion. What would several lifetimes of gender dysphoria do to a functional immortal? I shudder to think. Sciona may be so emotionally withdrawn that Deus is playing the odds he can make her start to feel things again and perhaps be a little less inclined to kick off the apocalypse. Him getting to know her so intimately may be useful for some super powered reasons as well, anything is possible. I perceive a need on his part to connect with her in some lasting fashion, to change her in some way.
To anyone reading this, yes, I am a hopeful romantic and deadly optimist. I still might be a Smart Hopeful Romantic and Deadly Optimist though :D
Nicely said.
It may be worth your while adding a line between your paragraphs. It makes it a bit easier to follow a larger post. The same is true of using smaller paragraphs, to avoid it looking like a ‘wall of text’.
Don’t worry about it making the size of the post bigger, as it is better to have it more readable, and we are not overly fussed about long posts, so long as they are interesting.
Which yours was. :-)
Finally, a little optimism! I really, really hope Dave’s going somewhere that interesting with this. If it’s just an excuse to draw more sex scenes, well, that’s fine in principle but it needs to be framed better.
What we actually see on the page today isn’t a proper “will they / won’t they.” It’s “THEY WON’T (okay yes they will.)” Which only makes the missing context of Sciona’s thoughts that much more crucial.
The Flashback distraction hid the fact that there is a gap in the story. Sciona shows up, she and Vale fight (kinda), Maxima shows up with her team …. so where is Maxima while Deus is about to seal a deal with the Bloodmage?
Something doesn’t add up.
Umm, did you not read the page where she and Gothamer were on the damaged heli-pad? The page that led to the mini-flashback?
The real question is: where is Abby during this? And where is ‘here’?
When Maxima was there Vale and Sciona were no longer in sight (Super Hiro was looking out of the window and could not see tem). Deus agreed to inform her when he learnt more. Maxima was satisfied with this.
After which, given that she is nor there, we can presume that the Archon team left and some time has passed. After which Vale and Sciona came back.
Frankly Scion has lost all credibility as a threat now. I can’t take her seriously, she was already pretty low on the totem pole, but now who cares? This whole page Really devalues her as a villain, and a threat. I know your trying to paint her as more “Human” but having her get trashed by the body guard, and then screwed over by Deus just paints the picture that Deus has all the cards, and we’re following a small time petty criminal when we’d rather be seeing what the “big bad” is doing.
You are right! What is the evil overlord/a> up to now?<
It’s not Sciona that loses respect points (she’s physically checked by Vale), it’s *Deus*. He’s put himself in a compromised position where he is inherently further from Vale than he is from Sciona and where if word gets out his standing with Archon is damaged in exchange for a little fun with a sadistic murderer? Really? He’s resorting to commodifying sex rather than thinking something else a *powerful transformed blood mage* could do for him? This is kinda sad, it’s the first move on his part that comes across as flat out dumb.
The worst part is, I could see how this could have been rewritten in a such a way that it becomes a tale of forbidden desires, secret motivations, living life on the edge, a sexual game of chess, a chase, a story of a closet massochist, or any number of other things… but it’s just not written that way.
What happened to Vale’s damage (I assume she is a robot)?
She’s not a robot she’s some sort of… shell with *something* inside. Presumably repairing the shell is easy.
Many of us are on the Djinn *black smokeless fire* or similar theory,
or
Eldritch of some sort,
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/phantasystar/images/1/1b/Profounddarkness3.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120519211203
Two things-
One, this page makes me a nauseous. It’s really uncomfortable, and it’s somehow worse that Sciona is just handing her body over like this. Kikyoo is right- this page takes her from an impressive “big bad”, to a B-list at best. It effectivly ruins her agency, and makes her dependent on Dues.
Two, everything I thought about Dues was right. I can’t wait for him to be ended.
See, I don’t get this…she wants something, he wants something, an exchange is being brokered. She’s not being forced into sex, she’s given a choice. Maybe I’m behind the curve, but isn’t choice a Really Big Thing? Nowhere is it implied she has to `put out or die’ or `put out or be thrown in jail’ or any form of overt coercion. She’s completely free to say No without repercussion…other than not getting what *she* wants easily. And it can be argued that since *she* is the one with the option to say No to Visiting Hours At The Va-Jay-Jay, she retains her innate power.
As a society, we are *so* hung up on sex. Who should have it and when, how it should be had…we disapprove of prostitution but support marriage; women aren’t sex objects but God forbid they have healthy sex drives; women are in charge of their own bodies but having sex makes her less than…the hypocrisy is maddening!
Point you seem to miss is it’s *Sciona’s* choice…whether Deus wants a quickie on the desk or a gallon of infant tears or Sciona’s copy of `Willow’ signed by Val Kilmer and Warwick Davis…*she* decides if the exchange is worth it. Why do we get so worked up when naughty bits are involved? It’s *her* va-jay-jay…she decides who gets to visit and for what reason. Stop trying to take away her ability to choose!
It’s not the choice that’s the problem. It’s the unspoken, probably unintended implication that Sciona has no choice. Hopefully the next couple pages will clarify things.
The author has already stated that this is not the case. Although the fact that Vale politely invited Sciona to resume negotiations, at her choice, and even warned her that Deus had weird proclivities, does show that there is no coercion going on.
Likewise the dialogue on this page is about Sciona having the choice about what to do.
As for veiled threats, Sciona is the one who made that. By emphasising Deus being “mortal“.
This was put in bold, so that we know the emphasis was present. So this is clearly a veiled threat. Which Vale promptly countered, as is appropriate for a bodyguard.
However note the body language, Vale was not even looking up when she said that. It was just a reminder that Vale will protect Deus.
So we have:
1) A bodyguard who ceased fighting, in order to offer Sciona to resume peaceful negotiations.
2) Deus telling Sciona she has the choice about what to do.
3) No verbal threat being made (other than as is necessary to prevent Deus being attacked)
4) No non-verbal threat being made.
Oooh. I guess I didn’t realize how much time had passed. Now that I really *look* at the background, that could pass for night, or another room. Certainly there isn’t sunlight streaming in illuminating busted green columns or anything, but the backgrounds are a little fuzzy so I think I was abstracting them away. An establishing shot wouldn’t hurt. Maybe a little sidebar from the editor at the top? I dunno.
1 reads loud and clear, but it seems like Vale could crush Sciona like a bug so that’s small comfort. 2 is fine on the surface but we’ve been trained not to trust Deus, even when he’s telling the truth. I sort of got 3 on the first pass? But then when I started reading comments it reminded me that we’ve already established how brutal Sciona is and how much of a control freak Deus is and we don’t know what the heck Vale is. It makes 4 the sort of thing you can’t assume. So a lot of us are now waiting with baited breath for some nice juicy thought bubbles to confirm 4 in a believable way.
Word-of-god is a good start, but I didn’t see that because, well, frankly, I didn’t feel like reading 3 pages of comments before reacting. Even if I had, the author should be exposed to my raw gut reaction to what I read, because it’s one more piece of the puzzle of figuring out how this page went wrong, how to fix it, and how to keep it from happening again.
Here’s hoping the next time a character sells their body to someone they were threatening to kill on general principle a few pages back, it’s a seduction we can all enjoy!
I do think that it is worth DaveB‘s time to tweak the dialogue in panel 1 to indicate that Sciona is free to go if she wishes. Given just how many people have read this as being coercive or even rape. Despite that not being justified when examining it properly.
So as it is conveying the wrong message to a lot of folks it would not hurt to dispel that up front.
Define “properly.” We still don’t know what Sciona thinks will happen to her if she doesn’t get this stuff back. We still don’t know why sex with Deus would be appealing when she hated his guts the last time we saw them. We still don’t know how Sciona interprets Vale’s presence in the room. We don’t know if Sciona believes she can say no. We don’t know why she got naked before making her decision. We don’t know anything about her mentality at all, really, which is part of why her sudden change of tune seems so jarring.
I say examining it properly means acknowledging that we don’t have enough information to prove that things are as clean cut as Deus says they are, but lots of past history that points in all sorts of sketchy directions.
All that is required is making it clear that Sciona is free to leave, if she wishes. The rest of your points are things that are normal for readers to ponder. Those we may be able to figure out more as the scene evolves (or subsequent ones if it ends here). Or it is left to us to interpret in the way that we choose.
An interesting aspect of classical Japanese architecture was to leave one thing incomplete or imperfect. In a palace one garden might not be landscaped. Or in a temple one pillar may be erected upside down.
This was for a very good reason. It drew the observer into the scene, in a way that they would not if they just passively observed a ‘perfect’ work. By seeing something that needed to be corrected, or that was unfinished, it got their minds working on how best they would accomplish that.
Thus the observer becomes an active participant in the work. They look deeper than just the superficial beauty and examine how it was achieved and how they could improve upon it themselves.
The same goes with a story. There should always be some room for the reader to interpret a scene their own way.
In this case though Dave has allowed such interpretation in an area that he did not intend. He thought it was clear that Sciona was free to leave as she chose. And those who closely follow all the key points followed that.
But the tacky tone of Deus’s behaviour and the ambiguity of having had a fight and Vale still being in close proximity, coupled with the banter about ‘mortality’ did steer all to many people into interpreting something that had not been intended by the writer.
Also, Warp, you keep requiring thought bubbles? It’s not needed. There’s already something showing Sciona’s thoughts. ‘SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING IT’ in the yellow. That’s her thoughts. She’s deciding that consenting to this might be a good idea, since it’ll let her get what she wants and she agreed with Deus’s first reason.
EVERYTHING IS A METAPHOR FOR DICK CHOPPING
Well, while we have sex allow me to show you my collection of enchanted items I keep out of public view.
The Contraceptive of Disenchantment,
The Onryo Cockring,
The Shadow Strapon,
The Buttplug of Uranus,
The Satomi Beads…what I wasn’t supposed to use them THAT way?
*cough* any ways, and the ultimate
Zeus’ Golden Shower Head.
Sorry but this feels kinda rapey to me vale put Sciona mortality in question literally moment before she agreed.
Literally not rapey at all.
Please don’t equate asking about having consensual sex because they want something in exchange with rape. It’s literally the opposite thing. There is no consent in rape. In fact, consent is an absolute defense against a charge of rape.
Pander, the implication Misklano is referring to, albeit obliquely, is that Vale is basically holding a gun to Sciona’s head.
(Personally, I’d argue the characters’ banter and body language imply that nobody involved is taking it that way, but it’s still ambiguous and confusing in a way that makes the whole scene feel a little “off” to a lot of readers.)
Whether it’s a prelude to a rape scene or a misguided attempt at a story about trading sexual favors that accidentally came across as a prelude to a rape scene, either way it’s got problems as-written. Calling those problems out, in whatever form they happen to take for each individual reader, can only make the author a better writer in the long run.
Be brave. We’ll get through this, and the comic will be stronger for it.
But she wasn’t holding a gun, figuratively or literally, to Sciona’s head. She could leave. She could pay the money. The statement was made ENTIRELY as ‘Do not try to kill my boss like you did with Cooter or Wyrmil – you’re not as unstoppable as you think and your best attempt to kill me earlier was an extremely minor annoyance.’ It had NOTHING to do with Deus’s offer, and from Sciona’s reaction, even she doesnt think that was the implication being made.
Vale, just like Maxi, doesn’t need to actually hold a gun or even loom menacingly, her simple presence is enough
No, her simple presence is not enough. She’s a bodyguard. Sciona has been menacing to Deus in the past, multiple times. You’re making unfounded assumptions. Not to mention she is giving rather calm consent.
Suppose, technically, twice is ‘multiple times’
They have met twice before. Both times Sciona has been menacing to Deus multiple times.
Pander does choose her wording carefully, being a lawyer. If you wish to catch her out you need to be much more rigorous in your choices.
Multiple means ‘more than once’ and it’s why I used multiple instead of ‘several’ (which means 3 or more), and I didnt use ‘a couple’ because that implies that being menacing twice is not as big a deal.
The outcome of their previous fight implies Vale could destroy Sciona effortlessly. 100% of Sciona’s past dialogue with Deus implies she finds him completely revolting. Neither one of those things is *neccessarily* a deal-breaker, but the fact that they’re being completely ignored by Sciona in this scene and we don’t have a clear picture as to why is what’s giving everybody the heebie jeebies.
Seriously. A couple thought balloons. That’s all it would take. Maybe she’s into Deus but was in denial about it. Maybe dominating women more powerful than him is Deus’s kink, and being sullied by willful men she’s slightly disgusted by is Sciona’s. But you gotta let the reader see the mindgames.
Because otherwise, we have to guess. And we’ll each guess different. And some of us will guess anything from fear to desperation to mind-control, especially in a genre where none of these things are off the table.
The most unfortunate explanation (though sadly the one supported by occam’s razor) would be plain old-fashioned bad writing. Fortunately, that’s also the easiest theory to disprove: Dave just has to give us *literally anything else.*
Well heck, Deus should just give Sciona whatever she wants then, that’s what you’re implying. IF he asks for money, it’s basically theft! If he asks for sex, it’s basically rape! If he asks for a handshake, it’s basically battery!
No. It’s not any of that. He has something she wants. She doesn’t have the money to buy it. He gives her another option. She’s free to say no and leave. Clearly she didnt leave because she literally brought them to her lair to discuss this. Vale being there is the only reason Sciona doesn’t just kill Deus and take what she wants instead.
As a lawyer, you should know that agreements made under duress are not valid or admissible!!!
Admittedly, there will not be ‘rape’ as SmugD won’t be physically forcing himself on her, butt with Vale standing watch, Sci-fright can’t resist, that’s the equivalent of a group of thugs standing in a circle while the leader has his way with some woman (or altar boy)
You know what this page really needs?
Fuckin’ thought balloons.
“As a lawyer, you should know that agreements made under duress are not valid or admissible!!!”
There was no duress. It’s a trade. One thing that she’s going to give consentually for another thing that she wants to receive, which is not hers until she gives due compensation. Also, there was no agreement made yet. By your same logic, if she was to pay $80 million, that’s theft.
Not to mention, Deus can always sidestep the issue by just giving it to her as a gift afterwards, so that Sciona is not a prostitute and Deus is not soliciting prostitution.
“Admittedly, there will not be ‘rape’ as SmugD won’t be physically forcing himself on her, butt with Vale standing watch, Sci-fright can’t resist,”
She can literally just leave. There has been NO action taken against Sciona except when she acts in an aggressive manner against Deus, at which point Vale IS HIS BODYGUARD. Vale also was nice enough to not murder her after Sciona tried to murder Vale.
“that’s the equivalent of a group of thugs standing in a circle while the leader has his way with some woman (or altar boy)”
It’s not even remotely equivalent to that.
No duress? NO DURESS? Oh right, you are a Dues-ite, you believe he sparkles in the moonlight and does no wrong
Pointing a finger at someone is no cause for physical action, again, as a lawyer you should know that
No duress. You don’t seem to understand what duress means.
She’s not under duress because she’s not being forced to have sex. She has the option to leave. She has the option to make the money then buy it. She has the option to try to kill Deus and take her chances with Vale. That’s not duress.
You’re being ridiculous now in your ‘arguments’ – no offense.
Pander, Sciona has ALWAYS acted in an aggressive manner towards Deus. It was established early on and has been constantly reinforced every time she opens her mouth around him. I’d go so far as to say it’s one of her defining characteristics in the comic so far. She’s bloodthirsty, she’d betray her allies at the drop of a hat, and she hates Deus. Those are the three main things we know about her as a character.
So if she’s seriously considering fucking him right now, it begs the question why.
(I’d say it also begs the question of why Deus would stick his dick in that homicidal sociopathy in the first place, but we at least know enough about him to guess that he enjoys playing with fire.)
To put it another way, would you personally hook up with a sex worker if one of the stipulations was ED-209 would be in the room with the chainguns kept spun up just in case you tried anything? That’s basically what Vale represents in this scene. It makes sense that Deus would want her there. It makes sense that she’d stay there. She wouldn’t be doing her job otherwise.
What has people freaked out is the perception that Sciona has no obvious reason to go along with it. So until we see a reason, we assume she has no choice. She wouldn’t have come back otherwise, and she certainly wouldn’t have disrobed before he even got to the hard sell.
One thought bubble could have fixed this. One throwaway line about Sciona’s past personal life. Anything that hints at an intrinsic motivation for her. Or, hell, even just some inkling as to what her extrinsic motivation is… what the maguffin is she’s after, what it means to her, more specifically what the maguffin *isn’t,* might make a big difference in how this story is being perceived by the audience.
Or to put it in purely transactional terms, this is a market with a single supplier who holds a complete monopoly on an extremely rare set of goods that a specific customer is desperate to acquire. Said goods were also stolen. He knows he can set his own price. He’s chosen a price point that seems completely arbitrary, but he himself asserts that it is far beyond what he expects is her ability to pay. He then offers to let her pay with sex instead, when nearly every other sentence that’s come out of her mouth so far has been an either an expression of contempt towards him or a death threat.
One thought bubble. That’s all it would take to make this what you say it is: a perfectly ethical transaction between consenting adults. Without that thought bubble, people assume the worst.
“Pander, Sciona has ALWAYS acted in an aggressive manner towards Deus. It was established early on and has been constantly reinforced every time she opens her mouth around him.”
All the more reason to not assume the intent of Vale is to force her to have sex, but rather to force her to not murder Deus.
“She’s bloodthirsty, she’d betray her allies at the drop of a hat, and she hates Deus. Those are the three main things we know about her as a character”
She seems to hate everyone. Yet another reason to have Vale around that has nothing to do with sex or rape.
“So if she’s seriously considering fucking him right now, it begs the question why.”
She wants what he has to offer, it’s been a while since she’s had sex, and she believes him when he says he’s extraordinarily good.
“(I’d say it also begs the question of why Deus would stick his dick in that homicidal sociopathy in the first place, but we at least know enough about him to guess that he enjoys playing with fire.)”
Same reason people climb Mt. Everest.
“To put it another way, would you personally hook up with a sex worker if one of the stipulations was ED-209 would be in the room with the chainguns kept spun up just in case you tried anything?”
You had me at ED-209. Yes. Also I’d understand if I’ve tried to murder the guy multiple times in the past and I am totally capable of doing so easily without ED-209 there.
“What has people freaked out is the perception that Sciona has no obvious reason to go along with it.”
She has 3 reasons to go along with it.
1) She wants the item that Deus has.
2) She might actually be, as Peggy has put it before, ‘beggin for a preggin.’
3) She might actually believe that Deus is as good at it as he thinks he is.
“So until we see a reason, we assume she has no choice. ”
I gave you three reasons. So she has choices. She also has the choice of saying no and leaving, or saying ‘no sex, I’ll get you the money instead.’ Or even ‘no sex, I’ll get you the money’ then coming back with a bunch of allies to distract Vale while she kills Deus and takes the item.’ Or stealing it from him like she did from the Council. LOTS OF CHOICES.
“She wouldn’t have come back otherwise, and she certainly wouldn’t have disrobed before he even got to the hard sell.”
She disrobed because she was decidedly NOT scared of the situation, not because she is. It’s very clear from EVERYTHING she’s said, in fact, and the only time she even takes a pause is when she’s pretty much mocking and belittling and threatening Deus for being a mortal and Vale tells her to be careful about mocking and threatening her boss. No thought bubbles necessary.
Eloquently and well argued on all points.
*looks into empty sack*
Aww, I forgot to restock on gold stars. Tell you what, you may pet me instead!
*wags tail encouragingly*
Petting a cute doggo is the best reward! *PET!*
Yay!
*wags tail like a skipping rope*
Also the mortality thing was because Vale is his bodyguard, and Sciona has threatened more than once to hurt Deus. Plus that time she tried to kill him.
Who is the one who physically accosted whom? Who was the one who started the fight that resulted in the damaged heli-pad? Vale, that’s who
Technically the first blow happened off-camera. Sciona did smash up some marble columns and we can probably assume Vale immediately threw her through a wall in response. But we didn’t see it happen.
That happened after Vale physically pushed Sci-fright
Incorrect. Sciona by breaking into the office, making threats, damaging a pillar and advancing menacingly on Deus. Any one of those constitutes sufficient grounds for a bodyguard to intervene.
‘Taking the fight outside’ is normal, when attempting to avoid collateral damage. Not to mention protecting the principle.
Yeah come to think of it I think Deus even mentioned something to Maxima about them taking the fight outside as a deliberate move on Vale’s part.
“Who is the one who physically accosted whom? Who was the one who started the fight that resulted in the damaged heli-pad? Vale, that’s who”
1) Vale actually only responded to Sciona’s aggression, Sciona approaches Vale with threatening intent. Vale pushes her back without harming her. Sciona starts threateningly breaking Deus’s office. Vale removes her from the office with a punch into the helipad. Sciona stabs Vale through the head and chest while Vale’s back was turned, taking a call and not being aggressive. Vale calmly relays Deus’s offer to Sciona.
2) Also apparently you’re forgetting when Sciona broke the pedestal to let the death field in the Vault fill up so it would kill them all if they don’t leave the Vault quickly. She’s already shown that she’s willing to murder Deus. Vale is his bodyguard. Do the math. :)
OBJECTION! Calls for speculation!! Unless you know, for a fact, that Sci-fright intended to follow through with yelling and pointing, that accusation should be struck from the records
Stop sucking down Deus-juice and see that all those actions against Deus were after he provoked a reaction
Overruled. The aggression was not speculative. It was readily apparent. Plus is extreme enough that the man on the Clapham omnibus would consider an attack to be imminent.
This requires a judgement call, not speculation. In this case one that is clear cut enough that I can assure you a jury would be in full agreement.
Just put yourself in the situation where someone smashed in through your window and did all the other things to you, which Pander listed, and you will see that it is enough that any reasonable person would be in fear of being attacked. Thereby justifying acting in self-defence.
And if you do not see that it is best not to mention that, because folks will likely decide there is something wrong with your mental wiring!
Just to set your mind at ease, Deus is a smug git, who works the system. So you are entirely justified in hating his guts. The trouble is that he is extremely good at it. Therefore no matter how much you may (justifiably) feel that he is doing wrong, it is not something that you can prove in a court of law.
Dave has written Deus extremely well. Because there are people out there (both corporate executives and others in society) who do know how to exploit the rules of society to their own selfish ends.
Just as someone may choose to claim social welfare money, charitable funds or the like, even if living comfortably and not being in need. But if they know how to present their claim the right way they can turn a tidy profit. Despite depriving others, including those in desperate need, from benefiting from those funds (especially true for a limited charitable fund).
However both are operating within the rules of society.
So your railing against Deus and saying he is breaking those rules is a waste of time. He is not. And you have a highly qualified lawyer repeatedly telling you that.
You are far better just accepting that aspect and concentrating on the fact that he is morally wrong. But pick and choose those arguments carefully, as Dave is clever enough that even a lot of the things that Deus does have some degree of moral justification.
This page not being one that I would hold up as an example though. He has let his track record down here.
Thank you, your Honor.
“OBJECTION! Calls for speculation!!”
Um… there was no speculation in my post. Everything I said was true. Everything in part 1 was a word for word description of what actually happened in Deus’s office and the helipad. Everything in part 2 was also what actually happened, earlier, in the Vault.
“Unless you know, for a fact, that Sci-fright intended to follow through with yelling and pointing,”
She followed through with yelling and pointing. Because she was yelling and pointing and getting closer to Deus. So Vale made sure she kept her distance. That’s all. Until she started getting violent in his office. At which point she re-positioned Sciona to the helipad.
“that accusation should be struck from the records”
The accusation is not an accusation. It’s physical evidence of the last two comic strips with Sciona in it.
Sciona is currently not in control of anything this scene for me is basically abuse of power for sex with threat possible death and violence .
and yes sciona is evil but this chapter clash with the rest of the story i realy miss grrlpower the adventure of Sydney at this point
I miss her too.
*wags tail loyally*
On the plus side, the reason why Deus is in control is because he has a greater woman behind him. So it is still ‘grrl power’.
Or ‘ancient dark goddess posing as a mortal grrl to while away a few moments of eternal boredom power’.
Not Sydney. Grrlpower the Adventure of Sydney.
They’re saying they miss the story they signed up for.
It is a good idea for world building to get away from the main character for a short time to flesh out the motivations and personalities of other characters, especially the villains. Yes its best to make sure the main character doesn’t KNOW things the audience knows when this happens (have read a few bad comics where you realize the new writers didn’t bother to realize this), not that, that, is a point here.
but unless we want a Steven Universe situation where the entire story is centered around the main character only and the audience only gets to see things that happen when they are around, leaving the bigger world and actions of the villains and other characters (off screen) a major mystery, which works for them…to a point *especially when you have to sneak in excuses to cut away like…oh Steven sees the fight in another part of the ship on a convenient monitor*…
best to let the story stray off them from time to time, real world time this takes weeks, but take a few months and go back and archive dive and this interlude will likely feel quick, like if it were animated a few minutes at most of screen time which is normal for most series to cut away to the villains for a little bit.
I don’t think it’s the change of perspective they have a problem with. I think it’s the change of tone.
Form “Derpy Badass Normal trying to integrate with a team of superpowered hunks and babes” to “Rich asshole with OP bodyguard forces brutal bloodmage to trade sex for maguffin that she miiiight need to stay alive or retain her body’s new form or something we’re not sure?????”
Seriously. A couple of thought bubbles showing us Sciona’s motivation. That’s all it would have taken to nip this whole thing in the bud.
Oh I get that, and voiced my own concerns on it elsewhere.
Although you are jumping to conclusions on her motivation, granted to one that would justify her change in tone, heck one of my raised concerns is that how quick she has agreed and the fact she is both a blood mage and a supernatural creature should be red flags to Deus given all the options both those have at point blank range and with the act of intercourse (Thrall powers via sex, supernatural virus that turns him into a zombie, blood drop crystal that lodges in his heart, ect…) that he should be suspicious of this quick turn around and not be inclined to have sex with someone who has voiced contempt for his life and directly threatened him,
and her “temperamental” aspect should be enough to at least presume she may not use foresight and have a moment of *screw it maybe I can outfly Vale if I kill him real quick*, or consider that whatever Vale is her (contract) if that’s how it works is expired if her employer is dead but she has to do everything in her power to prevent that but a revenge clause is non-existent.
too many unknown variables, and virtually any filled in make this scene…squicky.
I am jaded when it comes to tone, seriously I’ve written some pretty horrific stuff *oh erotic horror…set in Hell* but even with the setting this scenario fills off (out of character for both of them), and I can see it being a tone jar for most reading the series. But given I’ve put up with Sluggy Freelance for a decade and a half and its constant back and forth between comedy and (oh my god you killed my friends), I may be a bit jaded to tone shifts in comedy series…so long as it doesn’t go all comic book and kill half the cast to cut back on background characters to just create new ones and “raise the stakes”…or attempt to I likely won’t be chased away.
What’s your take on https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2784#comment-633151 ? I think Zoli may have solved it, but only if we also assume Sciona has a cultural taboo *against* wearing clothing.
Its probably just my junky computer, but the link is just taking me to the latest page of comments.
No it is just because the comment page number has been omitted, so it defaults to showing the most recent one.
Checking out the comment number sequence the desired one is on page 3, but we now have a page 4, so that is the one being displayed by default. However it cannot take you to the desired comment as that is not visible on page 4.
Clicking on the orange hash “#” on any comment* will generate a link in the browser bar that you can copy. But be sure to keep the page number in the link.
In this case it should have read:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2784/comment-page-3#comment-633151
* Sadly replies do not have such a “#” option. But there is a work around. In google chrome I right click, on the reply I want to link, and choose “inspect” from the mini menu. A window pops up with the page’s code. I just look for the comment number, which is usually readily visible.
Copying that I then go up to the top of the thread and click on the “#” on the opening comment. Replace that comment’s number with the one you copied. Then copy the whole address with that amendment as part of it.
This can be tested by pasting it in a new tab, and if it has been done correctly, it will open at the relevant comment page and specifically at the reply desired.
Using my own work around, I am going to assume he means the comment about it being a photoshoot, and then reply the same way others did to that hypothesis that the dialogue doesn’t match and it would take some serious mental gymnastics to conclude that it does.
I have to admit to feeling anxious about this strip. Casual sexcapades are a source of humor. This, however, really feels like sexual assault. Even if Sciona is acquiescing to Deus’ advances doesn’t mean that those advances are wanted, or that she isn’t feeling pressured. Deus has something(s) she needs. He is in a position of power. He also has a bodyguard who is at least as powerful as her.
Well, just as Sciona has the right to decide who visits her naughty bits and for what reason, Deus has the right to decide who visits his vault. He’s offering an exchange in which, in an absolutely objective sense, he’s getting ripped off. He has access to any number of hot women willing to get naughty with him, so Sciona’s naughty bits are really just more of the same.
Bottom line, sex is just biology and friction. We’ve built it into a lot more, sure…all kinds of rules and blah blah blah. It isn’t magical or mystical, it’s biology. It feels good so people naturally want to do it…that whole continue-the-species going in the background, even if we as individuals aren’t concerned with that aspect. Anything that makes us feel good is valuable, meaning it has become a commodity. The value differs according to the individual.
n this case, Sciona gets to decide what it’s worth. You can say she’s being pressured, but the reverse is also true….Deus can just as easily say, “Gah! I can’t *believe* I have to let her into my vault to get in her pants! That is *so* unfair, I feel *so* used!” That Plot MacGuffin may be the most valuable thing he’s ever had, all he’s ever wanted, the one thing makes his life worthwhile…
Meanwhile, everyone laughs at the effect Dabbler’s magic had on Sydney…and Sydney completely unaware until too late. Morph those two into this scene…Dabbler saying, “Well, Sydney, I can do it, but it’s gonna make you do embarrassing things due to resultant horniness. If you don’t agree, I guess you’re out of luck.” If you compare the two…Deus is being a lot more respectful and honest. He’s giving Sciona a choice, and it’s hers to make.
Grimjac Trading sexual favors is a fine theme. It only becomes a problem when:
– The author’s already established that Scionia would rather kill Deus than bargain with him.
– Vale’s power level has just been revealed to be way above Sciona’s, and Vale isn’t about to let her forget it.
– We don’t know whether the artifact she’s after is something she wants or needs.
Basically it’s not the subject matter that’s the problem. It’s the execution. It’s not the text. It’s the subtext. It’s not what’s going on in the comic, it’s what’s left implied.
A little context in the next page will hopefully go a long way towards clearing this up. It might even be worth going back and revising this page to make it flow a little better.
I don’t think Dave intended to give half his audience this kinda mood whiplash in the middle of the story, he just didn’t think through all the implications before he wrote the scene. He knew what he wanted the characters to do, and maybe he even knew why they were doing it, but he failed to communicate it to the readers.
As a result, everyone is filling in the blanks using their imaginations, and getting very different, sometimes disturbing, results.
Yeah, really hoping the next page will clear some of this up
“– The author’s already established that Scionia would rather kill Deus than bargain with him.”
Good thing Vale is there to make sure that Sciona can’t kill him. Which means she has to either bargain with him or leave. Not being allowed to kill someone isnt ‘duress’ or ‘coercion.’ When you go to the bank, the security guards arent causing theft by making you not able rob the bank, or battery by the fact that they’d shoot you if you tried to break into the vault. They’re there to make sure you don’t pull out a gun and rob the place. They’re not there to prevent you from withdrawing your own money though. Vale’s the security guard in this scenario.
“– Vale’s power level has just been revealed to be way above Sciona’s, and Vale isn’t about to let her forget it.”
Because it’s better that she remind Sciona that her power level is above Sciona’s, so that Sciona doesn’t get her murder on with Deus as the victim.
“– We don’t know whether the artifact she’s after is something she wants or needs.”
Honestly that’s irrelevant. Whether she wants it or needs it, she could have taken it when in the vault without Deus interfering. She left (after setting off a death trap to kill everyone there) and now remembers that there were other things she wants. If she NEEDED it, it would have been something she took before leaving in a huff. Either way, it’s not hers. Even if she does NEED it, she wants it because she needs it. Wanting something doesn’t make it yours. Needing something doesn’t make it yours either. If you get stranded on the side of a road, you might want a car to stop to pick you up and drive you home. You might even NEED a car to stop and pick you up and drive you home. They don’t have to though. And pulling out a gun and hijacking the next car that comes by doesn’t make what you did right.
I do think this was creepy. I’m not forcing my views but way this was doesn’t sound right.
Oh it is creepy, no doubt.
But Deus would not be the fist guy to pay for sex. And Sciona would not be the first woman to accept the payment.
It does, however, run the risk of being the first fanservice in this comic that wasn’t fun. That’s the main thing we’re trying to avoid, here.
i am sorry Yorp but i really don’t see how Deus not being the first to ask and Sciona not been the first woman to be desperate enough to prostitute herself to someone she dislike make this better or excuse it in anyway
I certainly am not trying to make this better or excuse Deus. He is a cad and should be birch-whipped naked through the streets! Exploiting someone for sexual gratification is not something that I approve of.
But there is a shed load of stuff in society that I do not like but which happens. Deus is behaving in a not uncommon manner. He just has a lot more money to indulge his fetishes.
Whilst there are a number of women who choose to enter prostitution because they find it convenient, or a quicker and easier (to them) way of making money than grinding away at a menial job, the majority are there because they have either no options available (such as those controlled by people traffickers) or because they are desperate (for a host of potential reasons).
The punters don’t normally know the reasons behind why a prostitute is making their services available. It is just a service that they pay for. Possibly illegally, depending on the laws in a particular jurisdiction.
Deus is particularly despicable though, because he is actually creating the situation here, rather than exploiting a pre-existing one. He is manipulating Sciona’s need (which exists because of his own actions in the first place, albeit with her absent-mindedness making that possible).
However, unlike the people-traffickers mention above, he is not forcing Sciona into doing that. He has presented his skeevy deal and the ball then entered Sciona’s court, as to whether she ignores it or decides to play along.
At which point this then becomes just a regular prostitution deal, like millions of others taking place. Sciona has found the deal to be convenient to her. Despite him being a tacky cad.
As a feminist part of the deal is me respecting the choices that women choose to make. If Deus had not given her a choice then it is rape. With her calling the shots though it is a mutually consensual deal.
One that demeans Sciona. But makes her richer to the tune of an incredibly valuable artefact.
That is her choice. Not my excuse.
I dont think i was clear before most of me problem with this is not how believable the situation his but how little it fit in grrlpower.
Dave say Sciona can leave but he does not show it at all she prostituting herself to someone she dislike and show none her usual pride just useless bravado
this destroyed both Deus and Sciona characters for me for what seems to be pointless fanservice filler
there have bean dark place in grrlpower before but this is uncomfortable on a entire new level i really hope this end fast so we can get back to the real story
I also disagree with the mutually consensual deal part the difference in there curent situation and the deal involve make this really hard to accept she is not in controle of the situation the place who is actually involve how long or what will really happen doesn’t actually know if he has what she want or if he will give it to her afterward and she know she cant force him to give it
Dave can give assurance but the actual character in the story don’t know so Sciona is prostituting herself on a gamble i personally dont think she is that trusting
So… like… was she *aware* that she started undressing before agreeing to Deus’s proposal, or indeed even fully hearing it?
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t love fanservice. It’s just that I’m not even remotely following the mindgames going on in this page. Is she being mind-controlled? Is she taunting him? Is she trying to bait him into groping her so it comes to blows? Did Vale undress her? Is Vale even now clouding Scionia’s mind so she doesn’t realize any of this has happened yet? Is that why Deus is so good at it? Is that why Harem said yes?
You see the problem here. In absence of any concrete information to make sense out of the images on the page, not even in the author’s comments, my brain is spontaneously generating its own story that’s probably 1000 times rapier than what the author actually intended.
Unless that’s the plot twist. In which case, uhhhhh… good job foreshadowing? I guess? But it completely changes what this comic is about. Not to mention, giving Deus the old Dr. Doom treatment. You know, instantly changing him from a complex and nuanced megalomaniac who might even turn out to be some sort of extremely smug antihero… into a caricature of mindless evil like they did with Dr. Doom? Only instead of skinning his True Love alive to make basically a powerup that doesn’t even change the status quo in the long run, he’s just a garden-variety rapist.
So. Yeah. I seriously hope there’s something going on between the characters here that didn’t quite scan with me, and that it will be explained better in the next page.
We all wanna see Sciona’s shiny new tits. But not like this. Not like this…
Note: I wrote this before I read or replied to any of the other posts on this page. Also, I don’t know how to Edit my posts.
Oh, god dammit Dave.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2784#comment-633151
Mind controlled? No, she stepped out of her armor like, oh, you think you gettin’ THIS?
It’s good that she has such a positive body image ever since she lost that troll/ogre body :)
Aaand now I am thinking about how grateful I am that she did not choose to express herself that way with her Frankenstein-like body.
She could always say no and get another team together to steal it… I’m not seeing to big a issue he is being slightly sleepy yes but he is making the offer he also made the offer to buy it, it’s not like she can’t rob a bank to get the money with her ethics and she can just say no and rob him at a later date why are so many people screaming bloody murder about this?
Hell he probly knows she would be willing to rob him he is just trying to find the advantage where he actually gets something and isn’t robbed or is playing the bond role here.
Drakeye the main reason so many people are bothered by this is because we don’t actually know why she’s agreeing to it. So everyone’s guessing what they think the answer is, and the author left a *lot* of unsavory possible motivations on the table the way he wrote this. The kind of things most dudes wouldn’t even think of unless they knew someone it had happened to.
Hopefully there’s still ways Dave can clarify things in the next page.
Well I know several people that these assumed things applies to which of course has no meaning.
I can see how in a normal real scenario this could be seen as those things but it’s not normal. Most things in this universe defy norm what we do see is as far as we know a human albeit peak human physically and mentally daring to proposition a godlike entity with something he has assumed she has not had in a long time and from the sound of it this assumption is based on study about her wich she has based on her responses proved right. He is making a form of trade with a godlike entity to do something that is legal in some countries (not where I live but whatever) when you take into account how open he is about this and his and her relaxed atmosphere about the subject both seem tolerant and safe with the subject at hand she doesn’t look uncomfortable he likly only continues the conversation direction becuase she didn’t decline just immediately undressed and questioned him further this looks more like a animal kingdom mating dance for dominance than anything.
I don’t understand your first sentence. Can you restate?
My whole point was you can’t possibly know what the “assumed things” are because every single person reading this is assuming something completely different. You’re making a lot of assumptions, too. (Probably without even realizing you’re doing it because that’s how assumptions work.)
But that’s what happens when an author writes a scene where the audience doesn’t know the stakes, the backstories, the relationships, the characters’ values or the characters’ thoughts. The audience has to fill in the blanks using their own life experiences, which are informed by everything from their own formative experiences to their religious beliefs to whatever they happened to see on the news last night.
(On a personal note, I would fucking *love* to see this written as a mating dance between two arrogant villains, steeped in dominance and power exchange. Maybe even devolving into a threesome with sadomasochistic elements if Sciona decides to go full Brat in the middle of it just so she can get herself punished!)
But that’s not even close to what’s written on the page right now. It lacks precious context.
Without that context, none of us knows what the story’s about, at this point. We haven’t been told yet. Some of us even find it hard to follow the story, that’s how alien Sciona’s reactions seem to some of us. As a result, the story could go almost anywhere from here– sexy, funny, tragic, gut-wrenching, stomach-churning. But the fact that we all think we see the writing on the wall and are anticipating very different trajectories with very different tones and implications is itself a writing problem.
(It’s a problem I think Dave will learn to engineer around a little better next time, just by signposting the characters’ motivations a little bit better, or at least explicitly ruling out certain nasty scenarios he didn’t intend to inadvertently foreshadow.)
“The kind of things most dudes wouldn’t even think of unless they knew someone it had happened to.“
It was in reply to that.
Yes I know a few but it doesn’t matter becuase most didn’t happen to me save for once in a mental ward with another patient. If it didn’t happen to me I can’t claim to know the feeling they were in.
Yes assumption are being made however I’m taking guesses from the fact of he appears to be the one screwed here and is being polite-ish, with a tendency to study and be learned on the subject before hand.
Yes villain mating rituals would be awesome.
After their little “skirmish,” shouldn’t Vale’s clothing be in tatters or something?!?
Her face was in tatters. Now it isn’t.
Oh, wait. I see what you’re saying.
Pretty sure that’s not clothing. :P
She changed her jacket, and the only damage to the old one was a blade through it, so it wouldn’t have even been in tatters
As long as they weren’t fighting in their…..unmentionables!?
But fighting in their unmentionables is this comic’s bread and butter! ;_;
It just has to be set up right.
I get it this panel is not clear and this is the problem. sciona does not look happy at all she literally have a gun pointed at her head before during and likely after the ¨sex¨with no actual guaranteed that she get what she wants or that Deus still has it
I have bean reading GrrlPower since the bank and this nearly made me quit i realy hope there is a point beyone fan service
And that’s the thing: Sci-fright will only be paying with her body to look at SmugD’s inventory of stolen items, if she finds what she is looking for, that will cost her extra
Oh, shit. I forgot about that part.
This is getting harder and harder for me to justify. As in, I’m having trouble imagining even a *hypothetical* way out for the writer. Fingers crossed, but… it would basically take some kinda crazy plot twist to salvage it at this point.
(Like, even if it was revealed that Deus was an Incubus, for example, you’d still have all the consent problems Dabbler’s scenes struggled with, but with an villain doing it rather than a goofy, well-intentioned fish-out-of-water. So it would still be taking Deus’s mysterious mastermind persona and reducing him to a common rapist as well as the least interesting demon in the story. Though I’ll admit, it might somewhat ameliorate Sciona’s arc by at least showing that she wasn’t herself in this scene.)
“an villian.” Sheesh. Can you tell it’s getting late, folks? :P
Read the second to last panel. Also read the reasons that Deus gives for why she should sleep with him. Notice that neither reason involves any sort of threat or even anything about the items. Just ‘You havent had sex in a while’ and ‘I’m really good at it.’ Then afterwards in the next panel, she says he better impress her with how good he is, and afterwards he will give her the item she wants – not just look at them. Last panel is Deus agreeing to these terms with his usual swarmy charm and being told by Vale that he’s being an idiot.
“Read the second to last panel.”
Like I said, we get that she said yes. What we don’t get is *why* she said yes. That is the problem, and as far as I can tell it is the main problem.
Just because Deus said some reasons out loud doesn’t mean those are the reasons going through Sciona’s head right now. Especially if it seems out of character for Sciona to be convinced by those reasons. Hence, everyone’s imagination runs with it in a different direction.
We get a pretty strong implication on why she said yes. Deus’s first reason was compelling enough for her to seriously consider it. His second reason was enough to close the deal.
Plus she gets an item she wants without having to get $80 million, or coming back with a group capable of distracting or killing Vale, or going through the trouble of another heist, this time on wherever Deus’s vault is (which might be difficult for her since she now has a reputation of trying to kill her teammates).
She picked the choice which gets her what she wants the easiest way, in exchange for something that he convinced her that she’d enjoy if Deus’s bragging was accurate.
Also Sciona doesnt seem to be all that intimidated since she just got out of her bodyarmor naked to show off her perfect body to Deus while asking why she would bother to sleep with a mere mortal.
Again, that’s like justifying assaulting a woman because she wore short-shorts and a low-cut top to a bar
Sciona can still bisect Deus like a flatworm here. I don’t think Vale’s implied threat works as more than a deterrent against that. I mean, if you’re counting the ‘guns’ in this scene then it’s a mexican standoff, not a mugging.
It’s still not a feel good romantic comedy but y’know. Villains.
this came up a couple of time but murderer kill a murderer is still a murder ,rapist rape a rapist is still rape , murderer rape a rapist and kill him you have a murderer and a rape. the situation right now is not made ok because it is 2 villains Deus was the victim originally and now sciona is the crime accumulate they don’t cancel.
I can attest this is true, did some checking a while back with a lawyer on if it was okay if someone tried to mug me, to beat them down and steal their wallet.
it still counts as theft, even if its done to someone who wasn’t trying to commit a crime against you.
A crime against a criminal isn’t legal…heck part of the comic’s plot is addressing Vigilantism.
That’s nice, but also completely irrelevant to the point that was being made.
The point is that you’re acting like the gal who punched through a dude’ spine is some abused shrinking violet who is being intimidated into doing things by the bad man. Frankly, you’re being insulting to her magnificently violent and capable self. She has the will, agency and at least as much leverage through mutually assured destruction as Deus to do whatever the hell she pleases.
her strength and ability do not make her less a victim in the current situation
the exact same way Deus was the victime when she attacked even if he is bodyguard stronger than her
both of them bean vilain do not exclude them from basic decency or make what happen to them less bad
Yeeah, okay. You keep on reassembling everything you hear into a straw-man argument based around your own interpretation of the universe and I’ll be over here… not arguing with you. Which by all apparent measures I wasn’t to begin with.
I’m still puzzled as to how anybody could maintain an erection during a mexican standoff. Maybe it’s just me.
“Again, that’s like justifying assaulting a woman because she wore short-shorts and a low-cut top to a bar”
There’s no assault here. In fact the only person who’s been doing any assaulting so far has been Sciona. I’m also not even remotely implying some idiotic thing like ‘she’s asking for it’ by showing off her naked body. I’m stating, quite clearly, that she’s simply not intimidated by him and not embarrassed by notions of sex… just that at first she wanted to know why some mere mortal thinks he could get all that (referring to her ‘perfect body’).
mini panel 6 is sciona basically reflecting on the thinly veiled death threat she just received, there is no assurance she will get anything after this and there is the threat of death the entire time she is prostituting herself from position of weekness.
the story is not all clear but it really look like she is doing against her will and bragging means nothing
like i said before i would much rather be reading about Sydney than Deus ¨adventure¨
The story is very clear, and you’ve misread it. Panel 6 is Sciona thinking “Okay maybe I shouldn’t be belittling him, and probably shouldnt try to threaten him while Vale is here capable of killing me. I want the item, and I don’t have $80 million. I have three choices – sleep with him for which he’s given two reasons that I agree with, leave peacefully, or find a way to get $80 million to pay money. My fourth option ‘kill the foolish mortal and take the item’ is not something I can do right now so maybe I should stop trying to intimidate someone who is not going to be intimidated by my threats.”
Again this is the problem it is not clear like you say and prostitution now is actually worst that if she was not aggressive in the first place Sciona is defeated and threatened with possible harm or death with no assurance of having what she wants except in word she was shown to be proud now she is a object for Deus
forced prostitution is still rape even if he pay afterward and she enjoyed it is really a creepy excuse if Deus pay and she got everything she want this it is still disgusting and do match with the rest of GrrlPower comic thus far except maybe Dabbler mind control to get sex
Just remember, Pander is 100% Team Douche: nothing he does will be in the wrong
Man, I just don’t wanna see Deus’s character dumbed down to the point it would have to be at for him to financially strongarm a super into sex. The enlightened self-interest is what makes the character fun! It’s the whole point!
No, I’m 100% Team Logic and Law. And Deus has managed to consistency use those the former to get whatever he wants without violating the letter of the latter.
Although yes, Deus is awesome. Even if he has a healthy libido still.
“Again this is the problem it is not clear like you say”
No idea what you mean by this.
“and prostitution now is actually worst that if she was not aggressive in the first place”
1) she was aggressive in the first place.
2) it’s not prostitution if he gives the item as a gift. When a guy makes breakfast for a woman the morning after, she’s not a prostitute. Although here, yeah that’s going to be a legal technicality. But Deus lives on legal technicalities sometimes.
“Sciona is defeated and threatened with possible harm or death”
She was defeated because she was trashing the office and threatening Deus. Which his bodyguard does not appreciate.
The only threat of death is if she tries to kill Deus. Again… that’s one of the possible jobs of a bodyguard.
“with no assurance of having what she wants except in word”
She could always leave.
“she was shown to be proud”
Pride cometh before the fall. But seriously, she still seems rather proud of herself, her abilities, her longevity, and her ‘perfect body’ as she’s referred to it while flashing it to him.
“now she is a object for Deus”
Well now you’re just being sex-negative.
That she could alway leave is one of the most reprehensible aswers that can be given in this situation.
When can she leave exacly? once Deus start fuking her, when she stop liking it? for all we know right now this is a weeklong thing Deus already added Vale something she did not expect what else will he add we dont know so again this is not a cleare situation
“That she could alway leave is one of the most reprehensible aswers that can be given in this situation.”
This response of yours boggles my mind. That she can leave and NOT have sex means she’s not being forced. Nothing reprehensible about that. Read what I write, not what’s in your headcanon (thanks for that word, Yorp – I’m going to use it a lot).
“When can she leave exactly?”
At any time, including right now. IF there’s one thing Deus seems to take seriously, judging from when he was with Harem, it’s that it’s entirely up to the woman to decide about sex. They can say yes, or they can say no. If they say no, he’s not forcing them to say yes or having sex with them anyway.
” once Deus start fuking her, when she stop liking it?”
Yes, she can leave at that point as well. Pretty sure she won’t get what she wants then, but she can leave. Somehow I don’t think Deus is bad at what he does. His bravado might be strong, but his experience might match the bravado, from what we’ve seen with Harem.
“for all we know right now this is a weeklong thing Deus already added Vale something she did not expect”
This part of your post makes absolutely no sense. Elaborate? Do you mean that Sciona did not expect that Vale would be able to stop her from murdering Deus and just trashing his building, killing employees, until she finds what she wants? Poor Sciona, not being able to get her murder on. Has nothing to do with having sex with Deus.
“she did not expect what else will he add”
He hasnt added anything to the deal. In fact, she did, and he agreed to it.
“we dont know so again this is not a cleare situation”
We do know, since it’s been clearly written out in the last several pages.
yes of course the prostitute i don’t really have to pay that hate me can leave at all time, i just wont give her anything unless i got all i want is a realy nice situation that give friendly vibe
yes sciona wants to trash the building it is you you keep insisting that they are currently having unforced friendly sex or something like that then turn around and use how violent she is to excuse forced prostitution.
again crime don’t cancel each other this is definitely not self defence anymore
No Pander has not said this. Not at any point.
To the contrary Pander has consistently and repeatedly said that there is NO force being used or threatened against Sciona.
The only consequence that Sciona would suffer from not agreeing is that she will not get the artefact. And even then she can choose to pay cash for it instead.
I do totally agree that this is not a nice vibe. But that is very different from what you keep on insisting by repeatedly saying Sciona is being forced. She is not.
2) it’s not prostitution if he gives the item as a gift. When a guy makes breakfast for a woman the morning after, she’s not a prostitute. Although here, yeah that’s going to be a legal technicality. But Deus lives on legal technicalities sometimes.
this is actually the kind of excuse you can expect from sex offender boss
“this is actually the kind of excuse you can expect from sex offender boss”
It’s not an excuse. That’s literally the law. Prostitution is performing sexual acts for money as payment for said sexual act. If there is a gift involved, and no money exchanged, a competent attorney could argue that it was not prostitution. Like I said – legal technicality.
Also, Deus is not Sciona’s boss, and I doubt that Deus is dumb enough to have sex with one of his employees because of the power and authority difference – something which does not apply between Sciona and Deus (of which Sciona is actually the significantly more powerful one).
i hope you are kidding sciona is now a client she is there not entirely under her own will that will receive the possibility of maybe getting a look only when he say so after who know what and how long this is disgusting on many level
even if he truly is the best lover in the world this is still a horrible situation
It is only a horrible situation for us, as moral observers. It is not for Sciona. She wants sex. She wants the artefact. She gets both.
Just because we would not do the same thing does not make it horrible for her.
Incorrect. Vale ejected Sciona from Deus’s office. Then ceased any hostilities, to answer Deus’s call. To the extent of turning her back, to make this clear!
After which Vale politely reiterated Deus’s offer. Even going so far as to warn Vale (to paraphrase) that Deus would be likely to make an unreasonable offer. This was a business arrangement and was Deus making a pitch to Sciona. *
There was no hint of duress in doing this. Sciona is here now because she chose to come here. Not because she was dragged screaming in by Vale. And she is still arrogantly confident at the outset of this scene. So, again, not implying that anything coercive happened off-screen between the previous scene on the rooftop and here.
Had there been Dave would have been very sure to show that. We saw nothing coercive because Sciona was not forced. She came of her own free will.
And she is likewise choosing to do that again.
Yes, yes. Pun intended. Inappropriate when discussing a ‘horrible situation’. But I like to lighten things up with a bit of a laugh.
* So, yes, in accepting it she is a client. There is no joking.
Although I do see your point that customarily we would consider a prostitute to be the one providing a service, and the punter to be the client. However Sciona is probably not thinking in those terms.
Whilst, on the other paw, Deus does have a reputation for delivering on his promises. Sciona may have checked that out, before coming here. If not, she is indeed taking a risk. However it would not take much asking around, in her circles, to find that Deus does keep his promises. Especially to clients.
Even though we could call either, or both, clients of one another, on balance I would say that the most relevant way to define the relationship is as Sciona being Deus’s client.
And he even mentioned that she was his first customer (as regards the vault items). So this is canon.
I’m not kidding, and even if you consider her a client (which she isn’t), you’d still be wrong – Deus is not the boss of his clients. Technically speaking, since clients pay people who provide things, the client is the boss.
just to be clear i don’t think this interpretation is what Dave is going for it just read this way to me and is really creepy and sad in a jeneraly light hearted comic
Real quick, Misklano , I’d love to see your reaction to Zoli’s theory below.
that taking a portrait does not sully a body (panels 4)
Yeah, some to think of it, I wasn’t quite sure how to square that line with it.
Best case scenario, she expects Deus’s art to suck so bad that it’s degrading to her in some way. Which might put us well back in the same thematic territory of exploitation, if not on quite the same scale as full-blown rape.
Maybe she would have to “sully her body” by putting on clothing? We saw her wearing clothing before, but that wasn’t her body at the time. Maybe nudity is a cultural thing for her?
That could also explain why she took her clothes off in the middle of the negotiations, which was something that was bugging me. Maybe she thought of the armor as a neccessary evil, to be endured only as long as she needed the armor bonus?
I’m not sure if this theory is stupid or brilliant.
*come to think of it*
I think offering payment for sex is beneath Deus. If he wants to sleep somebody, he would try to seduce her. Like he tried to seduce Maxima. He is very rich. He has everything he wants. A man like him wants a challenge, not a whore.
On the other hand, Sciona is a hundreds of years old badass, super vampire blood mage (or what), who has a serious reputation. I don’t think she would agree to let Deus, or anybody else to f*ck her for an artifact.
Maybe this is wild guess, but perhaps Deus secretly an artist, and just wants to portray her. He is obsessed with female bodies. Just look at his desk.
Sorry if my english is not so good. This is not my mother language.
Wait, what?
*scrolls up, re-reads*
Ohhhhhhh… Dave, you sneaky BASTARD!
Well if that’s the twist ending, all I can say is the payoff might not have been worth the shitstorm generated by the feint. That said,
*slow clap*
Note: as Misklano pointed out, Panel 4’s line about “sullying (her) body with a mortal like you” doesn’t quite make sense under this theory. The closest I can come to making it work would be if Sciona were a nudist, but she would need to put on clothing to model for Deus.
The phrasing (“with?”) doesn’t quite work. But it’s the least problematic interpretation I’ve seen so far that explains all the facts, even Sciona taking off the armor in the middle of the sales pitch, which had me very confused.
I was going to say “avail yourself of all the wonderful things that allows for” makes no sense since not only women can pose for art, but I suppose if she’s proud of her body to begin with, going without it for all those centuries must have prevented her from posing for art *of her.* So… sloppy phrasing, but like with the previous example, almost makes sense.
I feel like it’s a bit of a stretch, guys.
What if she is posing with Vale and she said that to her? That would explain why Vale is threatening Sciona. Because Sciona offended her, not Deus. She said: “with a mortal like you”. That could be Vale too. I think after she saw Vale’s “true face”, she feels disgust of her. I assume you saw the picture below the comic. They are a little close to each other.
Also we don’t know what Vale is wearing. She seems fully dressed, but from an another angle maybe she is wearing nothing but her jacket.
Sciona definitely wasn’t calling Vale mortal, only Deus, Vale’s words caused Sciona to watch her tone.
Sciona knows something the audience doesn’t about Vale, the fight Sciona’s reaction to Vale wasn’t one of disgust, it was one of terror, the pin point eyes, drooping wings, unraveling hair, and the “dread lines” behind her commonly used in animation and comics *especially Anime and Manga*, all convey a major “OH CRAP” moment for Sciona.
Whatever Vale is, Sciona knows not to cross it.
I dunno. I think a lot of the readership had similar reactions. We can check with some of our winged fellows, as regarding the drooping wings.
Most folks, even hard-as-nails sorts who can survive having their body chopped off, at the chin, would be intimidated by chopping open someone’s head and having all that weird s**t exposed. Not to mention Vale being totally unconcerned about it!
Possibly Sciona may have more insight than us. But if so, why did she just say (paraphrasing):
“OK so not a super then”
Rather than:
“OK so I am facing a class 9 extoplasmic entity from Nibishithnak”
Please feel free to substituent “robot”, “dark god”, “construct” or whatever other specific being takes your fancy.