Grrl Power #607 – A magnificent proposal
Wow Deus is getting all the action these days. The other guys in the comic might need to step up their game.
So we’re back from the little Harem flashback now. I didn’t put a caption up in the leading corner of the page cause I thought it’d be obvious, but just in case I’m mentioning it here.
Given that Sciona already survived having most of her head chopped off, Vale’s comment about her being “very slightly harder to kill” should tell you something about where her bar is for such activities. Assuming she’s not just posturing.
Yeah, Deus’s proposal is objectifying, but I think I’d be a little flattered if someone implied it’d be worth $80 million dollars to sleep with me. What, you thought Deus meant $10 million when he said eight figures? That’s cause you think smaller than him.
Is it just me, or is Deus kind of channeling Nick Cage there in that middle panel?
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And again i suspect deys has some sort of pherimone power
Holy Harvey Weinstein, Batman!
Yeah we all joked about the Valentine’s Day shot being canon but this is kinda skeevy.
Agree. This isn’t funny, it’s just gross.
How is this Harvey Weinstein level?
Harvey made a point to ruin people’s lives if they didn’t grant him sexual favors, and it was purely to maintain control over them.
Deus is offering a negotiable price point to a criminal for a look at his wares: $80,000,000 or a sexual favor. It’s more bargaining with multiple currencies than anything else.
I’m not saying it isn’t super skeevy, but this has literally nothing on Harvey Weinstein. That’s a gross mischaracterization of both the character and Harvey’s crimes.
Fair.
There are elements in common mind, to give credit for that though. They are both people in positions of power, using that, plus their wealth and influence, to have sex and to cover it up. In Deus’s case he is abusing Archon’s trust in him, in failing to report that Sciona has returned. Which is probably the only reason that the building is not still swarming with Archon personnel looking for her.
Sheltering an attempted mass-murderess is a significant crime in its own right. It is making Deus an accessory after the fact (in the attempted murder* of Wyrmil, for example). But, if focusing on the harm to the individuals involved in the sexual side of things, you are spot on.
* Or actual murder, as coming back from the dead as part of a hybrid with another being does rather pass that dividing line between attempted and actual murder.
Sure, there’s a whiff of “aiding and abetting a fugitive”, but I’m not really sure what crimes she’s guilty of other than “we at ARCHON don’t like you.” ARCHON actually seems terminally bad at crossing the ‘t’s and doting the ‘i’s when it comes to things like warrants, displaying badges, or notifying just about anybody in any other branch of government that there might be a _massive_ threat to life and limb about.
I don’t remember any humans she’s attacked aside from possibly Deus and he’s clearly not pressing charges. I’d argue you CAN’T “murder” members of the council as they’ve gone to a lot of trouble to declare themselves non-human and non-participatory in human civilization – which includes not being protected by it (seriously, you can’t have it both ways when you’re mind-bending the entire planet). I don’t know that the theft in the vault constitutes crime under American/ARCHON jurisdiction and again, exactly who would be pressing charges? There was a scuffle at the former candy factory which could easily be a case of defending your property against trespassing by overzealous jackbooted thu- uh, super cops.
Would not be hard at all to spin Sciona as persecuted by an out of control police-force with delusions of fascism. And I bet ten of the best lawyers in the country are on Deus’ speed dial ready to slam dunk that case, having already prepared their briefs on exactly that.
Ahh you must have skipped a chapter of the comic. You see there was this scene where Sciona’s constructs attempted to murder a room full of people, including a number of police officers and other federal agents.
Oops, make that two chapters, as the next one had her follow that up by kidnapping, conducting medical procedures without a licence, battery and illegal imprisonment versus another group of civilians and a couple of cops.
You really should go back and check it out. I won’t give you any spoilers, but I will mention that the protagonist was heavily involved in the climax.
Darn you missed that scene where Maxima was briefing the commander in chief too? I think you will find that counts as notifying every branch of government. You tell the boss and he advises any branch that he wants to be in the loop.
Plus that scene occurs because Sydney broached protocol and walked past a guard who was attempting to keep her out of a restricted area. Because we have seen most of the story from Sydney’s perspective we do not get to see most of the boring bureaucratic stuff that Maxima and others have to do as a part of their daily job.
Inter-agency cooperation is almost certainly happening. It is just going on in places that Sydney is not present to observe. And, because of the necessity of maintaining the secret about the Veil, the details will be on a need-to-know basis. Or, at the very least, couched in terms that match the public expectations.
So an all points bulletin may have been released to the police and others, warning them to be on the look out for “a dangerous super-villain”, matching Sciona’s description. And giving a warning to summon Archon, rather than exposing themselves to her deadly powers.
Or the matter may indeed be considered too sensitive to bring in other arms of law enforcement. We just should not assume that.
Just out of curiosity at what point in police procedure do you think that a cop is required to display a badge when being ambushed with lethal attacks?
And the only point in the story where a warrant would have been necessary is when they conducted a covert ops scouting mission at the Mars factory. Which they almost certainly have a warrant for. Such warrants do not need to be presented to the suspects, as they would negate the point of covert surveillance.
Psst. Sydney is human. Likewise Pixel, even if she can transform into a panther and go invisible. Those are just extra abilities she has over and above a standard human.
You mean the violence that ensued at a site normally empty of law-protected humans (with the possible exception of Pixel)? She didn’t attack federal agents, they threw themselves in the path of a non-human dispute. Again, I assert in the eyes of the law, those aren’t ‘people’. Ditto the kidnapping charge and the practicing without a license. The supernaturals have put themselves above the law… That simultaneously puts them outside of its protections. So again, aside of Deus himself, what human has she made the target of her attacks?
The surveillance and trespassing at Sciona’s property MAY have been backed by warrants, but again, a decent lawyer would likely have a field day with ARCHON essentially fabricating probable cause after provoking the security. Or are you proposing Deus’s lawyers are oddly deficient?
As to ARCHON’s fast and loose relationship with law enforcement, I think Max did them no favors with her tank-obliterating stunt and that Arianna really does earn her paycheck when it comes to the new organization feeling its way out as a armed enforcement service. Remember this “cowboy” pattern of violence is coming within days of ARCHON formally coming into existence almost entirely by government fiat. “Tread lightly” is probably on somebody’s mind. Just not Max and the rest of the superstars.
You want to give the story full gimmies for ‘boring bureaucratic work is all taking place’. I’d say there’s been more than enough side-stories and diversions that at least mentioning it is not an unreasonable expectation if we’re supposed to nod our heads and play along. Maybe we should see “a typical day for Arianna’ because if all those things are happening so smoothly we should never dwell on them again, then she’s got superpowers nearly on par with Max. That deserves screen time. :)
In the middle of New York city. Which, the last I heard, was part of the United States of America. The fact that Sciona may not have been expecting to find supers there does not excuse her for attacking them when they were!
Sciona was the one who initiated the exchange. If she did so in a way where her troops were unable, or not ordered to, disengage if police were present still makes her liable for everything which occurred.
Plus, that aside, there were a number of humans in the council chamber on legitimate regular business there. Zephan Zoeng being one. So Sciona was attempting to murder a number of humans, in amongst the non-humans.
And just because you consider that they do not have any jurisdiction there, or over the individuals involved, does not mean that the courts agree with you. Whilst they are within American territory the US courts have jurisdiction. Unless there is some secret treaty which says otherwise (which is possible).
So again I say Sydney and Pixel. And Maxima and Zephan and every other human in the council chamber.
The warrant would be to covertly search premises at various locations (including the Mars factory), per intelligence gathered (as indicated in their opening preamble when we saw all the teams searching), that these were locations used by somebody who had just attempted to murder a number of police and federal agents in New York city.
There would be no need for the lies you are claiming they would need to make.
Actually yes it is. Just because it is something that is bugging you does not mean that the rest of the readership care. And, more importantly, it is up to the author to decide when and where to deal with boring stuff. If he feels that a comedy comic does not need to do that, then it is unreasonable to expect him to do so, at your whim!
broached = breeched
I am not keen on this development either. Especially with Vale stripping her like she did.
It didn’t look like Vale stripped her to me, more like she disengaged her own armour
Vale didn’t strip her. She stepped out of her really weird battlesuit on her own to show her ‘perfect body’ off. Seemingly to mock Deus’s request with the whole ‘mortal’ stuff before she started considering it.
so now i’m wondering if Deus has a very special power.
The Dong of Control.
“after a sexual encounter with the wielder of -THE DONG OF CONTROL- any partner will be under a limited form of manipulation – sutler at first – but with each additional encounter the manipulation takes over and the person unwittingly/unknowingly is just following the wielder of -THE DONG OF CONTROL- interests and commands without really questioning it.
I like your thinking. Deus is all about money. He even openly says sex is ultimately about money. So what is he getting out of this encounter that is worth 80M to him? Long term control of a powerful mage might be worth it. Yours is the best explanation so far about why the proposal makes sense at all. Could be a super power, could be an artifact, could be it gives Vale time to implant long-term control, etc.
I would say this is a stupid plan giving her a deadly magical artifact for a one night stand… Then I realized that dues probably wants magical society revealed and she won’t finish that plan she made until she gets the item… Which means this a was just a fee bonus for something he would have given her for free since she would be doing exactly what he wanted anyway.
I guess every villain has their quirks.
If he just gave it to her, she would suspect his motives. by “charging” her for it, she won’t realize he WANTS her to have it.
After all he was willing to accept financial compensation as well.
Or maybe he really is an idiot because he wants to bang every female on the planet, and willing to do anything to achieve that. He IS a megalomaniac, after all.
So…. basically he’s a guy. :)
That’s totally not sexist/misandrous to say at all. Nope.
It was a joke, dude. I’m not a misandrist. I’ve been the one defending Deus.
The smiley did rather convey that.
Mind you, even being a joke it is not too far from the truth.
Obviously I would set a practical limit of 10,000 women. Beyond that it becomes a chore, and leads to chaffing.
Just because it’s a joke, doesn’t mean it’s not sexist. People would raise arms if someone made a similar joke that was aimed at a woman.
Only because so many cultures put women on this double standard pedestal where their moral character is judged more harshly by how chaste they are.
A man sleeps with a bunch of women he’s a playboy, more recent times have seen the return of the philosopher king form of masculinity, and TRIES to make the playboy image look bad.
but culturally the double standard is still there, if a woman sleeps with a bunch of women, no one can joke “its because she’s a woman” because of the double standard,
even reading this most are taking it harsher for the woman even if they feel a man shouldn’t sleep with a bunch of women no matter what its still wrong…but that bug is still imprinted in their mind that makes the woman one look worse…that magical princess pure untouched virgin image imprinted in your heads by society, media, and the world around you.
just test it, picture Iron-Man with just two women hanging on his arms,
now picture Black Widow with two men hanging on her arms,
what emotions did you feel? I don’t care what you may say in response to try and justify them, admit it to yourself, you have a programmed immediate reaction because of social condition regardless of what “thought 2” is to correct for it.
Well the Iron Man image – man with many women – tends to go back to the whole ‘caveman genetic memory’ concept. Man needing to have relations with many women, coupled with the fact that men tend to be a lot more visualize stimulated when it comes to sex than women. It’s funny because of the stereotype that ‘all men fantasize about sleeping with women all the time’ has at least a grain of truth to it. :)
Btw, to Enderus:
Heck, a lot of comedians make their entire act about that. Bill Burr, Jeff Heffron. Norm MacDonald. Daniel Tosh. It’s a funny trope. It’s called the ‘All Men are Perverts’ trope. All men aren’t perverts…. but the trope is funny. Hence… joke. :)
I’m not being sexist. Get a grip. I wouldnt get up in arms if it’s a joke made against women, despite being a woman. Then again I have a sense of humor, and I don’t succumb to stuff like PC culture. Plus I’m pretty close to a free speech absolutist.
Tell you what. Tell a female drivers are bad joke (you can tell it about me if you want since I’m part asian so we can have the stereotypes give an extra oomph). I genuinely will not care.
He’s not giving her anything (other than Super STD), just the opportunity to look at what he has
Read the second to last panel again.
Is it wrong that the more I see, the moreI am liking Team Deus? Charismatic Intelligent Evil is best Evil.
*cough* Paying for sex is like the opposite of charisma.
Except in this case she is the one doing the paying with sex. She could have chosen to pay financially instead of sexually. Method of payment was up to her. The charisma is where he talked her into paying with sex instead of cash.
Deus is rich enough he can afford to pass up $80M for a night of grind…
He has the Tohno glands!
Seriously? I expected Sciona to be a Lot more proud than that…
Me too, but then again, I hear sex is pretty fun.
and it has been a long time for her.
and lets face it, Deus is a physical specimen and perfectly willing to rock her world.
Remember when Grrl Power got all rapey? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I’m sorry. Did you think Deus was a good guy?
He isn’t?
*looks confused*
*scratches behind ear with hind foot*
Creepy, yea. But then again so is Math.
As has been mentioned by others elsewhere Deus is just being creepy, not rapey.
Sciona has only been stopped from attacking Deus. Vale ceased her arse-whupping to resume business negotiations. Inviting Sciona to consider the offer, plus giving her fair warning that Deus had something distasteful in mind. So Sciona could have opted to heed that warning and leave.
Rather she chose to come here. At no point in the above scene is there any implication that Sciona is not free to exit, should she so desire. Finally she listened to Deus’s offer and chose to say ‘fine’.
Yes = not rape.
Forced yes =/= willing consent
SmugD arranged for something of Sci-frights’ to be stolen, something she was willing to risk being seen out in public in broad daylight to re-gain, so no, she is not free to exit, unless she wants to give up what is hers (and no, don’t pull that “possession is 9/10ths of the law” again, or thieves and burglars would be using that at every trial and keeping the goods)
But it wasn’t hers in the first place as it is made pretty clear that it is something that she forgot when looting the vault. As such, she doesn’t have any ownership rights to the property either.
At this point, it’s two thieves negotiating for a piece of stolen property and one thief telling the other thief “Here’s my asking price”.
Is it coercion? In the sense that McDonalds uses coercion to take my money in exchange for a Big Mac. I really might need the Big Mac but McDonalds is under no obligation to provide me with the Big Mac.
Plus, when you consider how easily Sciona who has access to teleportation and an undisclosed number of golems (both mannequin and tank) could get 80 million, Sciona accepting sex is just her being lazy or stupid. Pop into a federal repository/destruction facility where roughly 7 BILLION bills of varying denominations are destroyed each year, grab 80 million worth of old money, pop back into Deus’ office and toss the money at him. Sure, depending how well she covers her tracks, it might be easily traceable and cause Deus a lot of issues but that isn’t her problem.
So, at this point, it isn’t even coercion so much as Sciona taking the laziest path to both scratch an itch and get what she wants in the process. There does come a point where the “coercion” argument infantilizes both a woman’s intelligence and agency and this strikes me as one of those times.
There’s no force here. So yes = not rape.
Also, none of the items were hers in the first place. She just wants them. If possession is not 9/10ths of then wants is not either :)
As has been pointed out to your furry ass, coerced assent =/= willing assent.
Panel 5 does have Vale present and making a threat to kill. So you would be right to claim coercion, if Vale was doing that with the intent to say ‘Have sex with him or I will kill you’. Even unspoken that would constitute rape.
However that is not the context, nor the intent of the author. Elsewhere I have advised DaveB to tweak the dialogue to make it clear that Sciona is free to leave. Without that though the scene is indeed open to interpretation either way.
I read it as Deus offering a business deal to Sciona, or waiving the fee for sex. Or being able to leave if she wants.
If you wish to take it the other way, despite the author saying that is not how the participants view it, that is your right.
There’s no coercion here. You don’t seem to know what the definition of coercion is. Promising something that a person wants, which they have no right to possess otherwise, is not coercion.
Wow, Dues this is so squicky. So much for caring if his partner is enthusiastic, or is he so full of himself that he assumes that it doesn’t matter this time because she will be enthusiastic soon enough. He’s definitely hit full bad guy no redeeming.
Deus is FAR to practical for this to trade an 8 digit artifact for sex (with a dangerous blood mage). Either he has a sex related power, or this is a diversion (unlikely, he could just have Vale beat her), or he wants her to have the artifact for some other reason.
I’d suspect the he wan’t her to have it or something. Its not like he needs the money.
He’s trading looking at the artifacts for eight figures for sex.
Yup to the various points raised so far. All bar the implication that Deus would be too stingy. He offered to make the crown prince ‘the richest man in Africa’ and to raise the standard of living across the country. As far as we can tell he kept his end of the bargain.
We know he did the latter, and have not hint that he reneged on the former. At the very least the assassin heard the offer, and yet was willing to help out Deus in the vault. Whereas if she knew Deus to not keep his word then things may have played out differently.
But I do agree that there would need to be an underlying motive. Deus did gain a country out of his ‘generosity’. So it is reasonable that there would be something equally valuable to him here.
Mind you, if ‘sleeping with the unobtainable’ is a powerful motivator for him, then it could be as simple as it appears. It did not cost Deus much to obtain the item. Despite the price tag that he puts on it (or viewing it, as the case may be). So it would be no great hardship for him to part with it, just as easily.
And, all told, he could end up turning a major enemy into a useful ally. Getting her widget back should mollify her anger. And if Deus is as good in the sack as he claims, then she will not necessarily feel too aggrieved about the circumstances.
Finally it would show that he has balls… errm… courage. Even with Vale present he would be exposing himself to considerable risk (given that he appears to be just a human). Sciona seems to be the sort who would respect that.
Actually Sciona re-negotiated in the second to last panel, to which Deus agrees.
I’d pass on that deal. Not just from the icky objectification factor, but also because you can’t be sure Machina won’t use the opportunity to do more than have sex with Sciona. We have no idea where his powers come from, or what kind of augmentation he’s packing. Getting sweaty and intimate with him is a good opportunity to slip Sciona sleeper spells or nanites or what have you…
It’s also a way of getting at Deus’ blood. Would she need to do more than put fingernails to his back to get a taste?
But if Sciona gets his blood, to whose advantage will that ultimately be…?
I read through the comments looking for any good ideas on how this could be in-character for Deus as the-guy-with-plans-within-plans, as opposed to Deus the pathetic horndog, and didn’t really find any other than what you’d find in cheesy porn.
I mean, I don’t have any problem with the sex itself, but covering for the lack of enthusiasm by giving the characters a thin plot to hide behind is exactly the problem with 99% of porn. If you can’t find a way for all the characters to actually want the sex for its own sake, and write it believably, then it shouldn’t happen.
But this isn’t porn. There’s no reason to expect all the characters to actually want the sex for its own sake. The fact that Sciona *doesn’t* (entirely) want the sex for its own sake is kind of the point.
I think in this case its he is a man with plans inside of plans inside of plans, and is so full of himself that he is a bit of a horn dog and has certain tasts in women, busty, powerfull, potentially deadly. He would have been just as fine if she had decided to go with paying the 8 digit figure instead of sex.
even with a microscope I don’t think I would find a PLOT in the last 20 pages.
See Killaim’s (I think) tongue in cheek comment above and my reply.
im more and more convinced its the “Dong of control” scenario
How to make three of your characters unlikable in a single page. Well done.
it started a long time ago honestly.
I am not even sure Halo has a real role in all this…
…well they are villains. But seriously, what is with people’s hang ups with sex? “Oh no, you like fornicating and have sexual kinks like most people in the world!” sheesh
We have an abomination (etc), an eldritch abomination, and the guy making deals with both of them. Heinously evil can expected to be part of the package. We may also be in the process of crossing the moral event horizon.
I would suspect Deus of being an idiot who thinks with his pecker here… but… A) He’s already got all the money. B) Sciona can do well in excess of $80 million in damage to his holdings. C) If he just gave it away, she’d never stop taking things until one of them died.
D) (because of course you wanted the… oh, right.) This is a world with tantric magic and he’s not only got whatever the hell Vale is working for him… we don’t know why or how… even without considering what wonderful new toys were acquired in the vault. A sexually transmitted geas isn’t outside the realm of possibility here. Even if the only thing it did was ensure that Sciona could not “interfere” in his affairs… if he’s got some world-domination plans, that could make the planet really safe from her.
I think I am just going to agree with all of this.
more the kind of guy that wants a very pricey hore if you ask me.
but your points are pretty right.
Two random supers in Halo-verse:
“Did you at least make sure she didn’t have any STGs?”
“You mean STDs?”
“No. Sexually Transmitted Geas”
“So, what are you saying? Vanilla is a feather, Perverse is a chicken, super perverse is a Goose?”
“Ugh, nevermind.”
Except it has been a long time since she’s had a fully female body, yeah? She’s always been a woman, obviously, but I don’t think you could use female to describe the body she had before.
That is not who I wanted to reply too, thanks comment system.
Its not rape if she’s a consenting adult. As for Deus, well, after that Harem flashback scene even *I* would be intrigued by his offer. Think about it. He made multiple of Harem’s body feel the effects. And she said herself the average guy can barely manage to satisfy just one of her forms…
I took it more like one man has not enough stamina for all five of her libidos and not like a normal man can’t get her off. Like her having multiple boyfriends in parallel.
I’d add that the little “party” trick is definitively suspicious. maybe he’s a bra demon.
with a set up like that I kind of have to reference this guy
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ranma/images/7/72/HapposaiEpisode140.png/revision/latest?cb=20121231061251
It is still rape if she is coerced into it, and she still won’t be getting anything out of it, other than a chance to see if her stolen property is amongst his other stolen items (which it won’t be, it will be hidden away somewhere else)
The MOMENT she consents and gives permission it can no longer be considered rape in any fashion. He isn’t forcing her or drugging her or threatening her. Not saying it wasn’t a tad creepy but you cannot water down rape to apply to everything it detracts from the word.
Forced consent is not real consent
As nobody has threatened Vale that she will come to harm if she does not consent, then it is not forced.
If however you wish t consider Vale’s presence to be an unspoken threat to that end, despite DaveB saying plainly that is not the intent of the scene, then you are free to do so.
“It is still rape if she is coerced into it,”
She isnt being coerced. There is absolutely no coercion happening here. Please look up what coercion means.
“other than a chance to see if her stolen property is amongst his other stolen items (which it won’t be, it will be hidden away somewhere else)”
Please read the second to last panel.
WHat. Is. With. The Purple. Tentakuls
???
that’s what Deus want to have sex with…
Vale is restraining Sciona. Vale is the Cthonic elder masquerading as human.
I took those as Sciona’s armor ‘fluidizing’ as a form of removal. It does seem to be flowing back into the ‘spine piece’ ala Tony Stark stepping out of his iron man suit.
I’m loving the mixed reaction to this page. Deus is a bad guy depending on who you ask. He has his objectives and the status quo be damned. Sciona is a murderer if not an outright serial killer. (Remember the room Pixel got strung up in?) Deus doesn’t need to charm her. He’s speaking her language.
I’m not going to defend either of them, but this reminds me of an old issue of, I presume Fantastic Four, Doctor Doom cuffed some kid’s shirt, lifted him off the ground and yelled in his face, then the next issue’s letter page had someone write in and complain that Dr. Doom shouldn’t have done that and it’s never acceptable to show violence against kids, which yeah, I get where you’re coming from, but on the other hand, Dr. Doom is a supervillain. That does occasionally require him to do bad things.
Right… because yelling at a kid is totally equally as bad as coercing someone to have sex with you…
Not really coercing, he’s making a deal she could just walk away without the thing she tried to murder him for.
I am totally against what Deus is doing here.
So, having empahsized that, I feel it important to bring up something here since it just came up, and something people *REALLY* need to consider. Sciona is still the more evil of the two villains.
The general attitude of our society is to respond to sexual evil with a heightened response. But no matter how you slice it, murder and serial killing are more evil than sexual evil. The latter gets a stronger response because it’s more prevalent and people have more personal experience with it. It’s a horrible thing, and we should do what we can to stop it.
But, we shouldn’t fall into the trap of considering it worse than murder. One crime the victim walks away from, the other, they don’t. People trivialize death so easily that is actually quite disconcerting.
Just because Sci-fright is a murderer (umm, so is Deus, even if he kept his hands ‘clean’), coercing sex is justified?
Also, Sci-fright isn’t getting anything from this ‘deal’
It isn’t coerced, he made her an offer with 2 forms of payment. One monetary, one physical, or she could leave. She considered it and choose the physical, SHE CHOSE IT.
It is coerced, because he is holding something that was stolen from her, and he is coercing money or sex from her to look at his stash of other stolen items
He forced her to come to him
No he did not force her to come to him. Vale politely reiterated Deus’s offer:
This is not phrased as “I insist that you come. This is an offer that you cannot refuse. Or I will chop your horse’s head off and replace that on your body!”
Sciona came of her own free will. Even if she does have legal title to the whatever it is that Deus has, she is under no obligation to accept his offer to have sex in exchange for it. Ergo there is no coercion.
I agree that what Dues is doing is sketchy, however most complaints about it going beyond sketchy seem to be based on a misrepresentation of what has been shown in the comic.
For example in the bit I quoted above, He is holding NOTHING that was stolen from her unless the council “stole” something from her and stuck it in the vault in the process of (failing) to kill her. What has been shown is her getting her primary objective, and then getting so irritated be Dues that she left, not realizing until later that she hadn’t grabbed some secondary objective, which he now has. At no point was it hers (unless the council took it from her to begin with) so dues hasn’t stolen for HER.
For crying out loud, all these armchair lawyers – and bad armchair lawyers at that.
There is NO COERCION.
I’m glad you can appreciate the “mixed reaction.” A few people seem to be expressing their dissatisfaction as an overall condemnation of the comic, which is uncalled for. Can’t even pretend it’s “feedback” if they don’t offer anything constructive. Reading the comments section is always dicey for content creators.
Sorry Dave but your try out of answer and explaining with that old Doom when he has done even worse things doesn’t explain or justifies your lack of real story since the meeting with the “midnight club”
Lack of real story? I’m confused…it seems like this entire arc has been where the story *started* happening. The first 4-5 realtime years of the comic were spent on Sydney signing paperwork, meeting coworkers, and having one fight, and going to a nightclub. Now we’re getting some serious plot hooks thrown at us, along with excellent worldbuilding — there’s an underground alien / supernatural community who want to stay secret from humanity despite the fact that some of these creatures prey on humans. They have what looked like a shadow war but actually turned out to be an Ocean’s-11-style heist by a supervillain that they thought they had defeated. We’re getting a little bit of Maxima’s backstory, with a hint that perhaps there’s some Chekov’s Geode Water on the mantelpiece.
The pace on Grrl Power has always been slow, which is, I suspect, why you’re not seeing the last 20 pages as story-generating, but I would argue that they are far more story-generating than the ~100 comics / ~1 year real-time that was spent on the Vehemence fight and its immediate aftermath.
Literally no idea how you’re saying theres no story here since the nightclub. The story has been fantastic!
The only time at all that the story ever slowed down for me was the year long fight outside the restaurant, mainly the 6 month long fight with Vehemence which took about 4 months too long.
Other than that? AMAZINGLY GOOD STORY.
DaveB keep up the great work.
+1
Deus = Bad Guy
Sconia = Bad Gal
So, it’s okay if it’s a bad guy and a bad gal?
It’s just that, with what has been in the news in the real world only a short time ago, this is going to generate mixed reactions, lots of reactions.
Only thing Deus has in his favor over his real-world counterparts is that he’s actually fairly attractive and he isn’t actually forcing himself on anyone, though turning sex into a business transaction does come close.
attractive how? since the first time we met him I would just like Maxima to laser his ‘private parts’…and now even more.
look at things from another perspective here man:
1. Deus wants Sciona to have the artifact thing whatever she left behind, but he can’t just give it away, for multiple reasons.
One: Sciona would get suspicious if he just up and gave it to her, she would probably still take it, but whatever else Deus has planned would be much harder, and yes he has a plan, he ALWAYS has a plan.
Two: Sciona might get the idea that she can just start taking whatever she wants from Deus if he just caves in gives it to her, not to mention the previous suspicion part and while Vale could, as seen, certainly subdue Sciona it would not be without collateral damage if she decided to rob the place.
Three: Sciona NEEDS whatever it is that Deus took and she needs it badly, if her reaction at realizing she lost it is any indication, I mean she literally stormed into the HQ of the company known to be Archons biggest supporters without even batting an eye.
because of these points Deus then did what he had to to make Sciona take the item back and Only the item, he gives her a price point she simply cannot cover, not without robbing ALOT of banks anyway, and then gives her another, slightly less dignified option.
End Result: Sciona and Deus does some bad stuff as “Payment” so that Sciona gets the item back, without having any of the bad points happen, Sciona leaves without causing severe property damage to the place and Deus’ plot moves forward yet another unknowable increment towards the big reveal which will probably be a few years down the line. All of that falls perfectly within Deus’ personality and Vale’s presence tops Sciona, who Deus KNOWS have no qualms going back on her word, from simply eviscerating him once she gets the item in question.
Whether or not Sciona would be willing to accept it?. The answer there is quite simple, if she was desperate enough, yes she would. She knows she can’t beat Vale, that much is obvious considering Val e not only had her grabbed in whatever goo-like substance her real body is made of, but also had stripped Sciona of all her clothing while she was at it and she can’t get to Deus without going through Vale first.
As such she could either take quite some time considering it was an 8 figure number and she would likely get found and potentially caught be either the Council or be Archon in that time, OR she would spend a few hours indulging herself and get the damn thing for free then and there, no fuss, she is probably still a bit suspicious, but Sciona does not know Deus well enough to know wether this lecherous side of him is something he actually has or if it is an act.
No, no no no, Deus only offered to show her what he had stolen, not give it back
Look just because you don’t like him or his personality doesn’t mean you opinion matters any more than anyone elses here. If we are being honest i suspect your biggest complaint is that he isn’t covered in fur and bending over for you . . . .
I’m not saying it’s okay, I’m saying they’re bad guys and by definition, bad guys sometimes do bad things.
Good… bad… it’s just dumb. Good ol’ junior high school humor. Yay. Ah, well…
It would only be lazy writing or high school humor if every character was likeable or held to the same morals. In every good story a character should have a mind, motivation and morals of his own – not the authors. Take Batmans Joker for example – he has tortured multiple persons (even kids / teenagers) and raped Batgirl. He is a horrible person – but he is an interesting character. Why should a comic book villain have high moral standards? The moral conflict is one of the interesting parts of a comic.
Very well said.
On top of which it is very clever writing to make Deus as personable and egalitarian as he has shown himself to be up to this point. It is very amusing to see how hard it is for someone to actually class him as a villain, given the way he dances around the grey areas, but not stepping into the darkness.
Even here he is doing a Robert Redford. “If I gave you a million dollars, would you sleep with me?”
In fact Deus is being more honourable than that, given Robert was trying to break up a happy partnership. Whereas Sciona is single and, as Deus pointed out, probably is long overdue getting laid.
Using a skeezy chat up approach (and outright bribery) to a villain, who has no morals, is tacky but, yet again, not heinous.
He makes a great champion of capitalism!
Nah. The junior high bit is the preoccupation with sex. It’s dumb eight ways from Tuesday. It’s out of character and completely unbelievable. GrrlPower indeed. It’s turning into teen hormone and BewbPower. Boring as hell.
Sex is a driving motivation for any species and many people are preoccupied with it, one way or another.
Just how is it out of character for a billionaire playboy to want to get sex? Plus we have already learnt that he and Maxima used to have a thing going (of sorts). Likewise we found out that his relationship with Harem is ‘non exclusive’.
So far we have only seen Deus’s acquisition of money. It would be rather pointless doing that and not spending it in any way. Now we know one passion which drives him enough to throw a fortune at it.
Well, small change for him, but a fortune for most people on the planet.
If you don’t find it interesting, that is another matter, and a shame. Personally I think the dynamics between these characters is enough to keep my attention. The sex is just a trapping for that.
Not seeing the drama. They are the ‘bad guys/bad girls/bad entities’ (looking at you there, Vale). To expect them to conform to what the larger viewing audience considers ‘proper behavior’?
If they did that, they wouldn’t be villains.
Oh noes, intercourse between two people that really aren’t into each other! Where is my fainting couch?!
And no, not referencing Dabbler recharging after the diner fight.
4 thoughts, Sciona is probably only agreeing cause she’s actually scared of Vale, and perhaps the treasure room is naked only, Deuce has a Incubus, Deuce is the incubus.
$80 million? Heck, I thought he was going for nines, as in $1 less than ten figures.
“Been a long time since you were female”? Way to be transphobic, Dave. And, no, I don’t care that he’s the villain, you don’t put transphobic comments in your media and then say “I don’t condone it” and expect people hurt by them to buy into it.
fully agree.
Except it has been a long time since she’s had a fully female body, yeah? She’s always been a woman, obviously, but I don’t think you could use female to describe the body she had before.
The idea that trans women aren’t “Female enough” is transphobic, and thus the idea that a woman that just happens to be in a body that’s buff and has a wang isn’t “Female Enough” is also transphobic.
I’m not trans, so I could be wrong, but isnt the source of gender dysphoria the fact that the body has the wrong equipment? That a trans-woman is a woman trapped in a male body?
That’s an outmoded description that was made by cis people. Lots of trans people don’t WANT surgery and are perfectly happy with the way they look, provided they don’t get transphobes coming and yelling at them that they’re not really x gender because their body isn’t correct.
I’m a bit lost, maybe you could clarify. You’re saying that someone can have a body completely opposite of what they feel they should have or doesnt match their gender to the point of causing distress, but at the same time be at peace with what their body looks like?
I’m not saying surgery is a requirement to be trans anything, but most of the trans-men and women that I’ve known work at correcting what they think is wrong through exercise , clothes, makeup or hormones.
The point is that the body doesn’t dictate the gender, and a lot of us don’t feel the need to go through dangerous/painful procedures to conform to what other people expect. Some of us want to look like what we feel we should, and others feel they look fine.
Interestingly, a lot of cultures don’t associate bodies with gender in any way, it’s mostly European culture and those that have been heavily influenced by thus
??? I thought the whole “Trans” thing was a person physically one gender but mentally being another. Which is was Sciona was (a female trapped within a male body) until she transformed. Now she is the same gender in mind and body and Deus has offered her to try out her physical gender’s characteristics with him. How is this “transphobic”? Or is this just because he used the traditional gender of “female” in his speech that everyone is triggered?
Sciona was, at no point, ‘trans.’ :)
She was born a woman. And she was a woman the entire time on a troll life support. :)
Or ogre. Whatever she was attached to.
Then when can an author who has no particular lgbtqia prejudices portray their characters that way?
They don’t, or they immediately call the character out, in which case the statement becomes specifically framed in a way that the author is not condoning the action. With something like genocide, it’s safe to say that the audience understands where the author stands on the issue, with something like transphobia, where it’s still common for people to think that “Men in skirts should be electrocuted” and are thought of as reasonable people or end up in the vice presidency, it can’t be assumed that we can know where anyone stands on the issue.
No idea why you’re acting like DaveB is transphobic.
Make it a comparison like this – if someone was a parapalegic for years, unable to have sex, then there’s a miracle surgery that makes her no longer a parapalegic, maybe she’d like to get to have sex again?
Nothing to do with transphobia.
Sorry, that was meant to be a response to Panicked Fox.
I’m not sure how that’s transphobic. Up until yesterday in the comic, the lower 90% of her body was male, now it’s not. He’s just stating a fact. Sciona wasn’t like that because she’s psychologically dysmorphic.
Even if that’s what Deus was implying, I’m not sure how that makes me transphobic. Characters do things, I’m not espousing their views. It’s like suggesting the people who wrote Hidden Figures are racist because there are racist characters in the movie, or whoever wrote Dr. Strange is pro-Dormammu, or pro-car crash.
As I just said in the previous comment, which likely wasn’t up when you posted this, most people can be seen to understand “Author does not condone x” in most fiction when it comes to things like demons or genocide. And Hidden Figures was historical, and is therefore not what we’re talking about. Those people were racist, and so were written as racist.
As for “Her lower body was male” that’s using the same wording as someone going “But your body is male, right?” No, the body has a wang on it.
if we want to be 100% technical, it’s not her body, so it could indeed have been the body of a male, if she stole it from a male. But that’s just dumb nitpicking.
Anyhow, even if the wording could have been better chosen, and can indeed been hurtful for some, I hope you understand it was in no way Dave’s intention to be transphobic. Twas just merely a bit clumsy.
I currently live in Alabama, I’ve heard way worse, and way more malicious. I’ve been with this comic since before the opening of the tube, and I know Dave at least tries. I’m not angry at him, just disappointed that he fell into this trap. I find it difficult to read much in the way of comics without coming across something like this sometimes, unfortunately. All you can do is try to call out the people that you think might change and leave the people you don’t.
I have too experienced my share of those, as pretty much every transgender, sadly (although I really can imagine Alabama being some orders of magnitude worse than France).
My point is just, in those cases don’t call out, explain. Don’t start with “way to be transphobic” you know it’s not the case. There are too few people that are friendly for us to have the luxury of being aggressive when they make a mistake.
Someone can be transphobic every so often, even on accident. And in my experience, politely calling someone out is just as likely to get them to say you’re being rude and lose an “ally” as being abrasive. I don’t coddle allies when they make mistakes that continue ideas that get us killed. If they accidentally do it, I don’t want them to mistake me for having “a bit of a problem with it” I want them to understand that they now have my critical gaze to see their reaction. Allies that make mistakes and get offended by correction get trans people killed every day, and those of us that are in consistent danger of that can’t afford to guess at who those people are. I respect and appreciate that he tries, but being a decent human doesn’t earn cookies with me.
being a decent human being doesn’t earn cookies by itself in my book either, but being one myself doesn’t cost me any cookies. And just, not aggressing “allies” is not coddling them.
Anyhow, I just think we have different ways of doing, but it takes every kind to make a world, and especially, every kind of militantism to change one.
Good luck in Alabama. Stay strong.
What if it’s by purpose?
Out of curiosity, how would you have handled it?
The situation being, Sciona was born physically female, as far as we know she was fine with that. At some point, she got her head chopped off and stuck on a body with male plumbing. Other than being probably being annoyed at being decapitated, we don’t know how she felt about that. She has since returned to a state where she is physically female.
How would you word what he said in a manner that flows coversationally and doesn’t “fall into this trap.” as you said? I’m genuinely curious. I’m actually not sure what trap I fell into, really.
You fell into the trap of not satisfying people with little or no imagination.
People are shocked Deus is an alpha-male asshole who wields power and advantage aggressively. I don’t know how that could have been established more clearly beforehand, but I’m glad the slow on the uptake are finally figuring out.
Grrlpower is a world were sex happens. Unsurprisingly not all of it is a giggling tumble in the haystacks. Again, I find most of the shocked outrage being paraded through here not just willfully naïve but hilariously petulant.
Well I’m still curious as to what the concern was. If I could have kept this scene exactly as it is but changed one word to improve it for a concerned group, why not at least know I have that option. I might not do it, some characters are going to act like they act, but I’d at least like to be informed.
You notice how you have people who are assuming Vale stripped her. They are literally inventing the problem they want to complain about so they can complain about it.
Internet culture has bred a whole class of posters who slink around trying to find an outstretched hand they can butt their chin into so they can scream “You slapped me in the face! So much outrage!!!” If you can’t manage to openly mock them, at least do yourself the service of not allowing them any influence over your process. We’re not here to read their polly-anna BS, we’re here for your vision.
I already replied and suggested an alternate wording.
“If I might suggest an alternate wording, should this situation come up again, “Up until recently, you didn’t have your favored equipment” is a nice, really suggestive, and fun way to put it that doesn’t put you in a position like this.
I could see that working. The salient difference being not having a specific reference to gender, or, uh, biological sex? Deus was referring to her biological condition, though honestly he probably wasn’t thinking about the distinction.
It may not come across as transphobic to you, but it’s exactly the kind of statement that’s used against transgender individuals in real life on a daily basis.
If I might suggest an alternate wording, should this situation come up again, “Up until recently, you didn’t have your favored equipment” is a nice, really suggestive, and fun way to put it that doesn’t put you in a position like this.
Sounds like you are going to need a ‘disclaimers’ paragraph after each panel that has any possibly objectional content.. /jk
It’s not transphobic, it has nothing to do with what’s going on in this comic page at all. Sciona spent the last few years as a Head grafted to a body not only not her own, not only of another sex apparently, but belonging to a whole separate species from her own in order to survive… The orc she killed to steal the ride from is exactly that, a vehicle, a thing she stole and used to stay alive and work on recovering her former power and body (and then a little extra while she was at it cause why the heck not).
If I had to speculate, Sciona probably went with the orc body she got either because it was what she had on hand, because it was the strongest body she could grab on short notice and thus more likely to survive the process, maybe its a blood type or magic compatability between her head and the host… Or maybe its just simply because the body she stole is physically strong, helping her compensate for the reduced potential for magical power with her being reduced to just the upper half of her head from her original body.
One way or the other, given how dedicated she’s proven to recovering her original body and so on, it seems remarkably unlikely that she ever put any real value in the orc body she was riding or identified with it in any sense of the word. As for Deus… For all that keeps him from being an objectivel good person… Biggotry doesnt seem to be one of his character flaws. He’ll employ anyone who has the skills, abilities or resources to get the job done when and how he needs it done.
His statement on this page certainly suggests that he is straight rather than bi in terms of sexual leanings. As for the “female” line, note that he’s not using the word woman or lady or the like… the only way he could make it more obvious that he’s talking about her body rather than any reference to gender identity is if he said “since you had a vagina”.
In short, all due sympathy to those who have been subject to or had to deal with actual transphobia, but there’s none of that on display in this comic page and trying to imply that the author Must display an official disclaimer anytime a Villain of their story does something morally questionable or be judged clearly in support of or tacit approval of said Villain’s viewpoint is just rediculous.
I’m also seriously questioning the idea that what Deus is doing here counts as rape or even serious coercion, Sciona is free to leave and reconsider her tactics, she’s also Easily capable of raising the money Deus is wanting if she is willing to spend a week on it. I mean heck, 80 mill to some aging, desperate billionaire in exchange for her doing a brain-transplant version of the same technique she used to keep her head alive while grafting it to someone of an entirely different species, to put said billionaire in the body of a healthy adult who really drew the short straw when it comes to luck. Who cares if the technique doesnt let the transplantee survive for long? It only has to keep for long enough for the bastard to cut her a check and boom, if she Could make it last she could easily earn money from all the immortality-craving people with cash to burn to actually buy what she wants from Deus, assuming it is in fact for sale at any monetary cost.
Option D as she’s apparently going with is faster, seemingly more convenient for her sure… but it is in no sense the only choice she has to get what she wants, heck if none of the three options presented were acceptable to her I would be genuinely suprised if Deus did not have further alternatives ready to suggest for what he might accept as barter.
Tis also rather unlikely that a business man like him would let an opportunity to make a deal of this level fall through just to sattisfy his ego, libido or whatever is actually motivating him to do what he’s doing in this page… Anyone who thinks Deus is truly only doing this to add another notch to his belt is clearly underestimating the machavellian bastard the character is clearly being set up to be. Is adding said notch something he’s likely to desire? Definately, greed clearly being his thing and all, but he is obviously up to something.
So no one can depict transphobia in media?
If anything, this sort of behavior is being tacitly condemned by the author, as it has been very clearly established that these are very terrible people who are consistently cruel on many levels.
This IS basically rape. What we are seeing here is a bad person coercing another person into sex. Nowhere is it indicated that this is ok, nothing about this scene is acceptable on any moral or ethical level.
The only indictment I can come up with is that he didn’t put up a content warning label.
I get enough transphobic characters in the news media, I come to fiction to escape that. Besides, this would be considered bartering for sex, which would be considered immoral to many, but isn’t necessarily. She said no to his initial offer, so he sweetened the deal. If he had threatened, then it would be rape, but as it is, he’s only used positive incentives and left her in control of how far it goes.
As for Deus being shown to be reprehensible, he’s actually been shown as morally grey, doing a lot of villainous things, and sometimes doing things that aren’t villainous. Characters like that walk a fine line, since it’s difficult to tell what are a character’s “Redeeming qualities” (Essentially helping a poor nation out from under a murderous dictator) and what aren’t (Breaking into a high security facility and working with wanted criminals). Transphobia is still accepted by enough people that it can actually be considered to be a “Well, at least he doesn’t side with trans people” redeeming quality for quite a few.
Cis guy looking for understanding here.
The way I’ve understood the events of the comic thus far is:
1) Sciona was born into a biologically female body.
2) Some time ago she got chopped by the Council and (presumably) transplanted herself into the nearest body she could grab. That body was biologically male.
3) She went to a tremendous amount of trouble to recreate her original (female) body, so it seems pretty reasonable to say that she identifies as female.
4) Deus says “it’s been a long time since you were female”. He pretty clearly means “…since you had a biologically female body”, but the wording implies that biology determines identity, which I think is what you’re reacting to.
Would you agree with this?
Yes, because Deus’s statement is extremely close to common anti-trans statements made in real life: they’re not real men/women because they have the wrong genitalia.
Quite a long thread, and I am not in the mood to examine it all in detail, so am not addressing the rest of it, just my personal take on this one aspect.
I do not see the above scene as being transphobic.
To be honest I would be uncomfortable with doing what Deus is going to great lengths to achieve. If I had seen Sciona, the previous day, as a rather hideous male orc, I seriously doubt I would want to bed her today. Even putting aside the fact that I do not fancy her current body either, plus the fact that her morals and personality would be a turn off.
So, from the point of view of him being able to rise above such shallow attitudes, Deus is actually being a better man than I!
*scratches behind ear, with hind paw*
As for his dialogue he is simply talking honestly about the situation.
Importantly he is not saying these things to try and impress some politically over-correct hidden audience. Rather he is trying to get into Sciona’s knickers. So is just guessing that she has been looking forward to both being female again and having sex. Therefore Deus is reminding her of that.
So you have the situation completely wrong. Deus is being transphiliac! He knows she was a different gender yesterday and it does not bother him in the least!
Honestly, this is the last thing I’m going to say on this. The statement in the comic was transphobic, but the comments of “It’s not transphobic because I, a cis person, understand better.” have been MASSIVELY more so. It is always interesting to me to see how many Cis people argue with me on what is and isn’t transphobic, despite them by definition never having first hand experience with it. Look at the trans people in this thread, and the cis people, if there are no trans people on one side of the discussion, it becomes irrelevant by the base point of cis people having no experience with it. Regardless, I went from disappointed in a mistake to disgusted by the “BUT ACTUALLY” that resulted. I will miss this comic, but hey. You win this argument. Cis people know transphobia better than trans people, I suppose.
It was not transphobic. Last thing I’ll say on this. The implication of what was being said was very clear, and that implied intent had nothing to do with transphobia.
Also, god I can’t stand when people say ‘well you’re not X, so you can’t discuss X.’ Aside from your last sentence being chocked full of passive aggressivism, you’re making an incorrect statement in the first place, and you can be corrected even without someone from your particular identity group being the only ones allowed to respond and critique you.
White people are fully allowed to discuss black issues
Men are fully allowed to discuss female issues.
Women are fully allowed to discuss male issues.
Cis are fully allowed to discuss trans issues.
Also, there’s no self-appointed head of any of these identity groups. I’m a female, cis, polynesian libertarian person, and I’m allowed to discuss whatever I want without deciding that someone else speaks for me. I’m more than capable of speaking for myself, and I’m not coming down on DaveB for writing a comic about mostly women just because he’s a man. It’s a fantastic comic – having an XX or XY set of chromosomes has nothing to do with it.
Benefits in long run? Helps get magic out where it can’t be helped but noticed by the public.
Panic/fear mongering via paid shills and talking heads.
Offer local govts anti-magic gear for their PD and bodyguards. Secretly offer magic lessons to those that want power and the means to counter it.
He would have to have an entire country turning out Magic McGuffins to maximize sales…his BRAND, His Country, His Guarantee…he profits all along the way.
This takes long term planning. With magic revealed he too can loosen his belt if need be. Any bets that he has a harem of his own in his new country that were selected because of magic genes and looks both? That he will father or have made babies (science and magics!) that he can later sell as magical/anti-magical body guards with great fringe benefits?
god i hope the action will continue after the “deus amazing fuckfest”, cause let’s face it, i come here to see who will be dabbler next victim…
To be fair, Deus is a villain, and this is the kind of shit bad people do.
It is, but that doesn’t mean that we need to see it done in the comic.
^^^ Mechwarrior: Exactly. This could ALL have been done off-page, and, imo, should have been. This comic used to be based on humor and flipping comic misogyny the bird by exploiting the common tropes. That take has eroded a fair bit, and then this page shows up. It’s anything but humorous, and submits to the tropes and misogyny without a single flying flip in evidence. It is seriously icky, especially considering that Sciona is ACTIVELY BEING RESTRAINED. Just… No.
Umm.. restrained? Where?
Some people are misinterpreting the weird glue of her armour as a part of Vale for some reason.
She’s not restrained at all. She’s free to leave and come back with a couple of Picassos under her arm if she wants.
Then that’s an art fail. With Vale right behind her, it is way, way too easily interpreted as restraints coming from the mysterious Vale. That’s how my female brain saw it, anyway.
This page is still so gross with a seriously rapey vibe, even without physical restraints, because the coercion levels are still very high, as are the threat levels. Just… this was not okay, Dave.
First paragraph duly noted.
Taken on its own, I agree that the page is gross. But when you see villains, with their masks off, that is appropriate.
However the page is part of a greater work, and the previous scene with Vale and Sciona had Vale cease hostilities, to take Deus’s call, and pass on his invitation to continue negotiations. This being done with no hint that Vale was intending to continue to fight.
I would though suggest to DaveB that making it clear that Sciona is free to leave and not under any threat would be a good retcon. With so many folks not picking up on that point, yet with Dave’s comment making his intentions plain, this would take the ‘rape’ misinterpretation off the cards.
Plus it would fit in with the dialogue, either on the page where Vale reiterates the comment on the roof, or on the above page.
For instance:
The minus sides: This makes Deus’s opening lines a bit of a mouthful (hence why I separated them out). Plus it works somewhat contrary to Deus’s aims here. “Leaving” is not what Deus would want Sciona to do here, so (as a shrewd manipulator of people) he would not want to put that subliminal thought in her mind.
The plus side: Sciona was itching for a fight and taking a moment to de-escalate things further is actually a wise move, despite the above.
The physical hostilities that Vale initiated by placing her sweaty hand on Sci-frights’ face and pushed her back, and then threw her out the window
You cannot claim an act of defending her boss from attack as being anything more than that. On top of which Vale stopped the attack completely, in order to resume peaceful negotiations.
Whereas Sciona chose to stab Vale through the back of her head, just in case you forgot.
If Sciona did not want to consider Deus’s proposal, she could have just kept on going. Vale made it clear that what Sciona chose was up to her.
If I went to a car dealership and shoulder rammed through the glass doors and demanded the dealer give me a car, I would expect a defensive response, and pretty sure the police report would say I instigated the hostilities.
Note to self, find a new way to get a new car. Rheun pointed out a flaw in my plan.
It’s called being a bodyguard, Guesticus.
Yeah, the art could’ve been a bit clearer, or omitted entirely, but the characterization is consistent. And quite good to boot.
So, I’m guessing Deus hid Sciona somewhere while Maxima and the gang was interrogating him? But now I have to wonder…does Harem know that she’s being hidden?
Now I’m picturing some dumb vaudeville situation, with sciona hiding in a closet or under a table.
I’m really bothered by deus’s constantly inconsistent hairline, I think I might have to give up on this comic all together!
/s
Long Time Reader, first time poster! First off- Dave, Thanks for a great comic! Love the Nerdity, the cheesecake and the characters. It makes me laugh on a regular basis- which is all I’m looking for.While this is certainly not my favorite page, it does show me that Deus has some… proclivities that I do not care for (though they do not surprise me now that they have been revealed). it also shows that this comic will keep me guessing as to what will happen next. Well done!
second – I’m always boggled by people who get upset over something like a comic. or… anything else that’s not directed at them, specifically, as a personal attack. Anyone who expects someone else to bend to THEIR sensitivities is living in a fantasy land. Guess that makes me an insensitive jerk. Too bad.
Hiya! I think the reaction to this page is understandable given all of the terrible sexcapades that have come up in the media in the last few months. The reaction implying that authors somehow endorse everything their characters do has always been a baffling one to me though.
Obviously, if you like a character, you want to continue liking them, so I understand being upset when they start acting like a heel, so there is that.
I dunno, Deus has remained true to form here. We saw Daphne say that their relationship was non-exclusive, plus Deus is clearly an ego maniac and has put in enough effort to maintaining his physique that he can pass for a super (or is a super, which should add appeal to quite a few gals). On top of which he is a billionaire.
Given all that it would pretty much be given that he would have his pick of girls. Odd taste mind, but his weapon collection shows that he has a taste for the exotic.
Can’t say I like the way he effectively puts a price on it, as part of a business negotiation mind. That is just tacky. But that does fit his modus operandi. He is capitalism personified.
I have no idea why anyone would get upset from this page at all. There’s literally no coercion. There’s literally no force. Even the reasons he gave had nothing to do with anything except ‘it’s been a long time since you’ve had sex’ and ‘I’m really good at having sex, so do you wanna?’ with the promise of a gift afterwards that she wants.
Tacky? Sure…. it’s tacky. He’s allowed to be tacky. I’ve had more than enough guys come up to me with corny, tacky pickup lines and buy me a drink. I didnt think they were raping me or coercing me.
Mainly because they werent raping me or coercing me. They just hoped I’d sleep with them eventually. Under my own free will. Since they werent rapists.
DaveB I think a big source of all the controversy over this strip is the fact that we don’t know what Sciona is thinking. People are using their imaginations to fill in the gaps, and everyone’s ending up with something different.
You can watch me flitting around the possibility space like Sydney on a sugar high in some of the Page 3 comments if you like, but the main thing is a couple of Sciona thought balloons, rather than an arrow saying “actually considering it” might have gone a long way towards preventing this.
(I.E. We get that Sciona’s saying yes. We need to understand *why* she is saying yes. It’s a pretty big reversal from the last time (or indeed, any time!) we saw her talk to Deus.)
We sort of do know. We at least know that even from Deus saying ‘it’s been a long time since you’ve been a woman and been able to get some’ (to paraphrase) – she is already ‘seriously considering it.’
That’s a thought. That’s showing that she’s not feeling threatened into it. She’s being logic-ed (well…. sexual logic-ed) into it.
I had been thinking that Deus was behaving oddly chatting up a woman with Vale right next to him. However did figure that the whole bodyguard thing was still pretty much obligated.
But had not anticipated the additional aspect given in the under-comic. So that got a good laugh out of me!
Plus the smiling/leering expression that Vale puts on makes me downgrade the ‘Vale is a robot’ hypothesis a bit.
Offset by the fact that she could just be programmed to behave that way, or that, as a robot she is only interested for educational purposes. Or, as a really advanced AI there is little to distinguish her from an organic person, and that could extend to sexual fetishes.
But still only partially offsetting the theory, as a significant part of its plausibility came from Vale tending to be expressionless and not showing much emotion.
>for educational purposes
Now I can’t stop some kind of GlaDOS watching and making smirky remarks during sex.
SO, Deus is a villain. In some ways, he’s a sympathetic villain, but still a villain. We can expect him to do villainous things.
So far, his villainy has been shown to take the path of least resistance: piggybacking on other people’s heists, installing the son of a dictator instead of finding someone completely new…
What confuses me about this scene is that he’s coercing a woman into sex when he already has tons of women willing and eager to go to bed with him. It just doesn’t seem to make sense with his already-established character.
Beleive it or not, that’s actually explained in a few pages. :) As with most things in this comic, I included it mostly as a joke, though I suppose it does help to inform his character.
I look forward to that page. I’m curious what you’ve come up with. I guess I’ll have to wait and see! Deus is one of the better written villains in the webcomics I read, and he’s one of the reasons I come back to your comic. It’s puzzling to see him turn into Harvey Weinstein here, and I’m looking forward to seeing how you use this turn to advance his character.
Sydney: “So, seriously. Why Sciona?”
Deus: “I suppose some of us like to live dangerously.”
Sydney: “But didn’t we just establish that Vale could crush her like a bug?”
Deus: “Err… well… perhaps it… amused me to see her humbled.”
Sydney: “Pfft. Yeah, real humble. We could hear her all the way from the van.”
Maxima: “SYDNEY!”
Sydney: “What!? I’m just sayin’! If that was humility, sign me up!”
Deus: Single unimpressed raised eyebrow.
Sydney: Anime mortified panic-face.
Deus: “No!” (Maxima is hovering directly behind him, but he hasn’t noticed this yet.)
“What confuses me about this scene is that he’s coercing a woman into sex when he already has tons of women willing and eager to go to bed with him. It just doesn’t seem to make sense with his already-established character.”
Sure it does. Many high-profile rapists (though Deus is not at this point shown to be a rapist, but the basics are similar here) could easily have access to numerous willing partners. They feel entitled to have whatever partner they want.
I wouldn’t say ‘coerce’. She’s a fucking supervillain, and not at all lacking in confidence (arrogance). In other words, if she said ‘yes’ to his indecent proposal, it’s because she doesn’t give a much of a fuck about giving a fuck. If she was really bothered about his suggestion she could just go rob a bank or two then come back with the money. Or gather more support and try to rob Deus directly.
Is Deus skeevy? Yes. Is he a rapist? Hell if I know, but not on account of this incident.
It’s coercing because if she wants to see if her stolen items are with Deus, she has to either pay $80 million or sleep with him
How is that not coercion? o_O
coerce
kəʊˈəːs/
verb
verb: coerce; 3rd person present: coerces; past tense: coerced; past participle: coerced; gerund or present participle: coercing
persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.
If she’s not unwilling, it’s not coercion. If he’s not using force or threats, it’s not coercion.
threat
θrɛt/
noun
noun: threat; plural noun: threats
1.
a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.
She isn’t, particularly, unwilling and he’s not using threats. It isn’t coercion. Any more than someone telling a prostitute that they won’t give $250 dollars unless they get to fuck is coercion.
I broadly agree with what you are saying. But just to play Devil’s advocate, please refer to my comment below.
Note that we have not had any indication that the item in question is necessary for Sciona to survive. If that remains the case, then it is not rape. But there is an element of coercion.
To draw a parallel, if some guy picked up a wedding ring, he found on the ground, and the bride wanted to have it back, he could pull a knife and say “you can either pay me for it … ” (naming an impossible price) “… or have sex for it, or go away.”
The ‘or go away’ option stops it from being rape. But there is still coercion involved in the rest of the situation.
By that standard every negotiation in history is coercive.
The FULL extent he has exerted power over her choices has been “no, you can’t murder me and take it.”
Not every negotiation, as there are some which have no threat of violence on either side.
Whilst you are right that the threat of violence does underlie negotiations, it is a matter that most of the time it is distant and codified by social niceties. There are many stages in between one party defaulting on a deal, before the bailiffs are sent in to take away their personal possessions. And that resisting such would likely ultimately find the person thrown in jail.
Whereas here (just as with the knife in my analogy) the threat of violence (Vale) is right at hand. Even with nothing being said to draw attention to it, the danger is in plain sight.
People are right to have serious qualms about this.
There has been no threat of violence if she doesn’t take the deal. No loss of freedom if she doesn’t take the deal.
In fact, the only implied threat of violence at all was ‘If you try to kill me, my bodyguard – whom you tried to kill a few hours ago and failed – will kill you, because her job is to stop people from killing me’ Nothing to do with sex. Only had to do with not having her murder him.
That’s close to it: to extend your analogy, this guy picked up the ring, put it somewhere ‘safe’ and then made the offers of pay x amount of money to look through his pockets, sleep with him or go away
Don’t forget the part that the $80 million was just to look through his other stolen items, not to actually get it back, that will cost extra (if he was stupid enough to have put it with the rest)
Somehow I think that Deus knows that Sciona is unstable enough that if he pulled that with her, she might try to kill him anyway. That’s why in the second to last panel, she amended the agreement that he WILL GIVE HER THE ITEM SHE WANTS.
The price isn’t impossible, just large. Also, there’s no indication it’s _her_ ‘wedding ring’. She just wants it.
I was making an analogy, and choosing to put the emphasis on $80,000,000 being an unobtainable figure for most people. Even being hard (but, as you say, not impossible) for a super villain to obtain. Especially given all the up-front expenses involved in pulling a major heist, particularly when that sees no return.
And, again, an analogy, as regards the wedding ring. We have no idea what it is, just that Sciona considers it so important that she is willing to risk life and limb to get it. When trying to make an analogy for every day life, a wedding ring is a suitable place holder. It is something that people have died trying to protect.
“It’s coercing because if she wants to see if her stolen items are with Deus, she has to either pay $80 million or sleep with him
How is that not coercion? o_O”
1) It’s not coercion because there’s no force and no threat of anything. There’s an offer being made, which she is fully capable of refusing. She is not being stopped from leaving. She is not being blackmailed or extorted. She’s not being anything. Even the reasons given about why she should accept the offer have nothing to do with any sort of force – just ‘I’m really good at having sex’ and ‘it’s been a long time since you’ve had sex and maybe you’d like to’
2) Second to last panel blows your other concern out of the water – the one about him only showing her the items he has and not giving her the item she wants IF ITS IN HIS POSSESSION. She says, in that panel ‘Afterwards, you WILL give me what I want.’ And he’s agreeing to that. In contracts, that’s similar to something that we call a novation. It’s like an addendum to an existing contract that creates a new part of the contract.
So are we going to find out what Vale is any time soon?
Almost certainly not. If you check back through Dave’s blog/comments, when Vale did her reveal, you will see that it happened earlier than he wanted. Rather the character had taken control of the situation.
Strongly implying that Dave has good writing reasons for delaying showing more, about her true nature, about her than he already has.
All hail our holy parasite host overlord Deus, soon Scinoa and one Harem will have a brain parasite just like Deus!
Dick Ex Machina. Deus is a dick, right?
Don’t hate the playa. Hate the game.
I’d be lying if I said that wouldn’t have crossed my mind. Semi immortal very old super powerful creature.
Gotta try everything once.
Though i’m not a fan of coercing like that; But. Dues is a villan generally. Also, she seems rather interested ianyway
Not coercion if there are no threats or violence or threats of violence
Agreed.
However although there is no direct threat of violence, for sex, that element is still underlying things. Sciona considers the item to be hers. Deus has made it clear that she cannot have it. Vale has used considerable violence to enforce that. The fact that Deus has put an unobtainable price on the item puts the monetary offer out of reach.
Leaving Sciona with the options of abandoning her property with him or sleeping with him. With any other options being ruled out by Vale’s use of superior force.
If that item is important to Sciona’s wellbeing, for any reason,* then even the dictionary definition of coercion would be met!
* For instance (running with the dialogue mentioning longevity and mortality) if it is necessary to keep her young or healthy.
Actually Sciona does not consider the item to be hers. She WANTS the item. She knows its not hers. That’s why she was trying to steal it and forgot to steal it when she had the chance.
Also no, there is no coercion here. Vampyrr is absolutely right on the definition. Even if the item is important to Sciona’s wellbeing, it’s not hers.
There are a lot of things important to people’s wellbeing. It doesn’t make those things belong to those people or give them a right to those things. Not that there’s anything that she needs ‘for her wellbeing’ that she didn’t already take. She just wants something that would help her accomplish something.
So what if it is the thing that keeps her alive, as I implied, now that she has lived beyond a normal mortal life? Which she owned and the Twilight Council took from her dead body.
Quite absent minded of her to forget something so important, granted. But withholding her life-support widget would kill her. So, purely in this hypothetical example, would that not be a threat of death? She would not have time to raise such a ludicrously high sum. So it would boil down to ‘have sex with me or die’.
That sounds pretty coercive to me.
*wags tail provocatively*
1) If it’s a thing that keeps her alive, how has she kept alive without it? She seemed to be able to stay alive even without most of a body and head.
2) If it’s ‘the thing that keeps her alive’ then she would have been pretty stupid to leave the Vault WITHOUT IT. Not Deus’s fault.
3) Also still not coercion. You don’t have a right to someone else’s anything. Lets take me for example. Lets say you were arrested for grand theft dog biscuit theft, for which the penalty is life in prison because Congress has taken a very hard stance on the dog biscuit theft world. You want me to defend you because you know what an amazing lawyer I am. You tell me that I must defend you. I say no, I want you to pay me … lets say $50,000 to defend you.
You don’t have a right to demand that I defend you.
Now lets say I decide I will defend you, but only if you decide to be my guard dog for a day. Great deal right? There’s no coercion here. You can either take it or leave it. Actually you still have the third choice of figuring a way to get $50,000 so I will agree to defend you.
I did not coerce. I made you an offer, for which you are free to accept or decline it, or can go with my initial offer of money.
1) It is an ageing thing. She will be a dry husk by morning. Her orc body was young and did not need it. Her brain is sustained by magic but cannot live without a body.
2) Sciona has had her brain chopped apart. We should forgive her for the odd memory lapse.
3) Ahh but you have removed the imminent death aspect in your change to the example. So it is avoiding the specific point I was making. Plus I had the aspect that she does have a valid claim to the item. One which she would not have the time to contest before dying.
Interesting absolute. Here is a court which disagrees. Specifically due to the individual being in “a state of need”.
Being an Italian court (albeit their highest court of appeal) it is not of bearing to Deus in America. Plus they put a very low limit on what would be a reasonable amount to take. So it fails on two counts.
But still interesting food for thought. Humanity is becoming more civilised, a little bit at a time. Even if it regresses a lot elsewhere.
“1) It is an ageing thing. She will be a dry husk by morning. Her orc body was young and did not need it. Her brain is sustained by magic but cannot live without a body.”
Then she really was stupid to not leave the Vault with it. Also, if it’s that important, she can pay for it.
“2) Sciona has had her brain chopped apart. We should forgive her for the odd memory lapse.”
She seemed to have enough of a brain to trick the combined intelligence of the Council and Arc-light and her own teammates.
“3) Ahh but you have removed the imminent death aspect in your change to the example. So it is avoiding the specific point I was making. Plus I had the aspect that she does have a valid claim to the item. One which she would not have the time to contest before dying.”
I avoided nothing. She has no valid claim to the item.
“Interesting absolute.”
It is the absolute of ‘you do not have a right to take things from others without due compensation.
“Here is a court which disagrees.”
1) Italian court. Not US court.
2) It’s an idiotic ruling to say that ‘if you’re hungry, it’s fine to steal.’ Take that to more extremes. If you’re poor, it’s okay to steal money? If you’re tired, it’s okay to steal a car? If you’re horny, it’s okay to ACTUALLY force someone to have sex with you? The answer is no, it’s not. If you’re hungry, it is not okay to steal. Being hungry does not make stealing no longer a crime.
3) Also, he wound up being convicted of theft and sentenced to six months in jail and a 100 euro fine. The Court of Cassation, which is a uniquely stupid thing, doesnt actaully deal with the facts of cases, just the application of the law. They wrote a decision that is unique in its stupidity.
“Being an Italian court (albeit their highest court of appeal) it is not of bearing to Deus in America.”
Can’t wait to see when someone say that being poor makes robbing a bank in order to pay for rent no longer a crime, based on the same faulty logic. :)
And yes, in the US that would never fly.
“But still interesting food for thought. ”
Please tell me you didn’t make a pun. Tell me that was an accident, Yorpie. :)
“Humanity is becoming more civilised, a little bit at a time.”
I see nothing civilized about allowing theft because someone wants something. That’s more like the direction of anarchy instead.
Ahh, I suspected that a capitalist might value the price of a meal more than that of a human life.
;-)
Just to make this term better known
“Semi-immortal”
the word people want for something that has an indefinite lifespan (can’t die of old age) but is otherwise able to be killed.
is Negligible Senescence
Deus, in my opinion, has two goals for this…
1. She knows where I am, attacked my office, and in doing so brought Arc Swat to my door. Let’s give her what she wants so that she goes off and creates havoc (a.k.a. a distraction) and I can go about my business.
2. Has a “super” fetish since being rich AF and charismatic, he can get any non-super he wants
I’m a bit confused about some of the mixed reactions about this comic. I have 100% faith in Dave and fully expect there to be an explanation for this turn of events in the coming pages, after all, he has 8 years of experience working on Grrl Power alone.
That said, this comic is often very lighthearted, so it is a bit of a surprise to see such an underhanded maneuver. That said, he IS a bad guy, and he’s still living up to his character by coming across as exceptionally shady while not necessarily outright committing crimes himself… per-say. He DID offer a monetary price, he also offered this alternative, and presumably she had (and still has) the opportunity to decline. He’s a scumbag, but I think he’s a well-written scumbag.
The sexually active part of me would also like to mention: if he’s REALLY as good at sex as he claims to be, can someone be faulted for accepting the offer. Men aren’t the only ones who can have high libido.
Yeah, sure, if she was dating him or just flirting, butt this is simply the price she has to pay to look at his stolen items, it’s not even the price to get back what he stole, which would be a shit move as well
lots of pissbaby sjws in the comments today i see. He made an offer she asked why he stated reasons she accepted. She wanted the item but couldnt beat him. Did you expect him to go “oh you cant pay…ill just give it to your for free?” and fucking transphobia accusations? lol people just looking to be offended.
Out of curiosity, what was your purpose for this post? Panicked Fox was posting in order to bring attention to an issue that s/he has found to be a physical threat. Other people responded with comments intending to suggest a different approach in raising the issue, to defend the comic for being clearly negative towards the characters, to discuss how to appropriately depict transphobia, etc.
Were you looking to accomplish anything in particular with your post?
“Excuse me while i undress and refuse your offer for s*x”
Was all i heard Sciona say.
If she was going to say no then why undress… oh, because shes evil like that.
It’s not actually clear to me that she’s undressing. It looks a bit like Vale is ripping Sciona’s clothes off, but I’m really hoping that’s not the case.
she is very obviously stepping out of her armor. The advhesive shit is prolly something that allows her to have some mental control of it and bonds it to her.
She is?
*goes back and looks again*
Hm. I guess that third panel (the one with the Schlip! noise) could be her stepping forward out of the armor. I’d been reading it as the clothes being pulled out from under her and she was going up on her toes so as not to be pulled over. I like your reading better.
Either way, though, the exchange reads like this:
“You know, you could pay me through sex.”
*gets naked*
“And what makes you think I’d do that?”
i think deus is actually a super. how can you be that creepy and still get the ladies?
i mean, i’m creepy! and i never get any!
… i should probably bring this up with my other half…
Holy fucking shit! Deus is now my new favorit character And my new Spirit Animal!
I Love how this turned out. It truly makes me think he took those extra artifacts just to facilitate this moment. I am starting to suspect he has a serious fetisch for Dangerous af women. I can respect that.
As for all the folks saying it’s creepy, it’s creepy; perhaps, but she is apparently fully able to object if she wants to, so I see no reason to complain.
Also, broke down laughing my ass of at the little note that Vale likes to watch.
Honestly surprised Deus is thinking with his dick here, almost expecting this to be a twist around but his wording suggests otherwise.
Even sympathetic villains have to have those moments to remind the audience they are villains, not good guys, not role models, and it should never be reflected back on the author, hell comment sections like this are one of the reasons I’m kind of glad I’m not more popular with my stories *How can you expect us to sympathize with a character who turned a prisoner of war from a man to a woman against their will while having sex with them*…well same story she was also killing angels so…
See this in comics: oh Magneto isn’t so bad (has massacred thousands), Dr. Doom isn’t so bad (flayed his lover and wore her skin as a magic leather armor).
Actually Dave I believe you are being hit by a rather special trope, see Deus up till now has fallen more or less into the Xanatos/Lex Luthor level of corporate villain. However rape, even in the form of convincing someone to prostitute themselves using sex in exchange for something they can’t get by force, falls into that (Rape is a Special Kind of Evil)
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil
Mainly because its a very real world evil, Deus like villains like Skeletor and such are *dramatic exaggerated narcissism*, AKA cartoony evil.
the Muahaaahaa, I shall be the Overlord of all Magic, using this amulet of power I stole from the magic vault of King Gerald of the Elves, and raise an army of the undead.
Although people tend to forget the cringy past of villains routinely stealing the heroes girlfriend *Bluto from Popeye for example*. But in time the more real world evils have been sifted out, so when introduced into a setting like this it hits that part of the audience’s stomach where they are forced to reconcile the concept of *evil is evil*, and evil can be charismatic, it can form good relations with people it needs to, but in the end its greed, and it will do some pretty horrible things to get what it wants.
That said Deus is still an idiot and I suspect the only reason Sciona wouldn’t take being closer than point blank to kill him is because Vale is right there. Although Deus better hope her blood power doesn’t extend to *Thrall* or *Poison Blood* type abilities…
in fact…I would be extremely suspicious of her right now. She is a blood mage, she tried to take something by force, and seems to just as easily be willing to get naked and have sex right now rather than flee and rethink her options, or barter further…
yeah I would be suspecting her to have a body fluid exchanging *Thrall* power (sleep with me and become my lawful slave forever), or her bodily fluids are poison to a human, both acting slow enough to get what she wants, leave, and then command or kill him from afar well out of Vale’s reach.
Except even by the loosest of standards this is not in any shape or form CLOSE to rape. Please stop misusing the term.
Rape:
unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception
One could argue Vale’s comment counts as a veiled threat, however whatever, it is not by definition rape as he isn’t forcing her; however sexual coercion in exchange for a favor isn’t that much better as its still not something she would want to happen.
However let’s not detract from the SECOND point.
Deus
is
being
a
moron.
Thinking with his dick instead of his head, definitely going against the idea he is well aware of the rules for a good evil overlord.
Let’s consider the following, isn’t it rather strange Sciona is willing to have sex with him in exchange for what he is offering? Is what she is looking for so important and needs it RIGHT NOW that options such as observing him till the desired item is sold off to a less protected individual and then just take it from them; or retreat and try a different plan; unless she is afraid of Vale that is for the former.
considering Sciona has those light wings and is a blood mage, getting intimately close to her is a strategically bad move on his part. The threat Vale presents could very well be the only thing that would prevent her from either slicing him up while embraced, or say…during the throws of passion she cuts her hand with her fingernail, focusing a little dab of blood and goes all (Deadman Wonderland) on him with a blood bolt or a blood blade *we saw her do something similar to Wymwil in the vault using her own blood from the part of her that was still her original body *cheek*.
Also the option of a Thrall ability that many supernatural creatures have, especially using bodily fluids. There are tales of men who about or do kill themselves to follow a supernatural woman into the forests, mountains, and jungles after one night with them to become her obedient slave.
The fact she is willing to do this so easily after her first option failed should be making him suspicious.
Well argued.
Not to negate it, but just to point out a mitigator. Deus seems to know a lot about Sciona. So whatever capabilities she may be known to use, Deus could have prepared a counter. At the very least they have made it clear that Vale will be staying. Given that we have seen Vale outclasses Sciona, unless she does something really subtle, that Vale misses, her life expectancy will be rather short.
One thing that does put Deus in a stronger position is that Sciona already backed down once before (in the Vault). Sciona feared the unknown potential that Vale posed (strongly aided by Deus’s overwhelming confidence in her). Which would be unchanged in this situation.
Deus has seen that Sciona can be manipulated through her fear of the unknown.
If he pulls out the contraceptive of disenchantment to protect from magical STDs (sexually transmitted spells like Thrall) I will be surprised…and weirded out honestly. LoL
although a tiny blood drop assassination crystal *lodges into heart or an artery* and can be passed into the urethra…although she would likely need to prepare for that and she hasn’t so far been shown to be a sexual villain (so no snakes popping out to bite or other weird tricks), but still with all the magical possibilities and given her irrational behavior *if we take the below page blurb part as canon* having Vale watch would be the only thing to hope she doesn’t have a (screw this, kill and flee…maybe Vale’s contract ends if her master dies…if we can assume anything about Vale that is in that regard).
Still, some odd risks on Deus’ part,
-the humorous end result would be permanent limpness for him except with her (Did I not tell you my lover, my kind has a natural skill to prevent our mates from mating with another)
Granted Deus would not have a protection from STDs. But if Vale spotted Sciona casting a magical version of one (subtly attempted or not), she would remove her head, and in a way that it can’t be put back on anything!
The whole point is that Sciona has absolutely no idea what Vale is or what she is capable of. Which could easily include spotting a subtle spell. Ranging from simple detect magic spells, through being trained in mystical ninja arts (always expect those) all the way up to being the servant of a dark god (or even an actual dark god).
Does Sciona’s desire to inflict pain, humiliation, disease and death upon Deus sufficient to die attempting that?
We have seen the answer to that once before.
Vampyrr. Thank you for being someone who understands that this isnt anything remotely like rape. Major pet peeve of mine.
Okay, hating Deus more now.
*moves Deus from the mental “grey” category over to the “Villain” category.
Welcome to the “Deus is a Douche” Club
So … does Sciona NOT have the right to voluntarily decide to have sex with Deus in exchange for the item without paying for it? How is asking a woman if they would want to have sex and giving a gift afterwards being a ‘villain?’
She’s not being forced.
She’s not being coerced (anyone who thinks this is coercion, please look up the definition of coercion – no force, no threats being made).
She’s been asked. She considers it, and is making the acceptance under her own free will, based on two things that Deus said – 1) that she hasnt had sex in a long time and probably would like to, and 2) Deus is good at having sex. Those were the only two things that Deus actually gave as why she should do it. Not ‘Vale will kill you if you don’t’ or ‘I will turn you in to ARCHON’ or any of the other possible reasons that would be actual coercion. At any time, she can just leave. She just don’t get an item that does not belong to her in the first place (which she could have taken earlier if she had thought of it, instead of creating a deathtrap for Deus and the others).