Grrl Power #604 – Rooftop relationship roundup
If it isn’t totally clear what Max and Harem are referring to there in the last few panels, imagine that it might be cleared up in the next page or two and it might just happen!
I made up the term Silk Work because as far as I could suss out, there doesn’t seem to be an actual term for seduction spycraft. Wetwork being the term for anything involving the spilling of blood, usually used by spies (at least if Hollywood has taught me anything) so Silk Work seems like a logical continuation of that theme. Hopefully that didn’t completely throw everyone. It’s weird that a term like it doesn’t already exist. I know the term honey trap, but that seems like it’s more for a sting or a grift than an embedded operative.
Obviously, it’s something Maxima takes umbrage with. She’s not ignorant of how the world works, but it doesn’t mean she has to like it. Dabbler would, of course, be quick to point out that silk work and prostitution and strippers are all evidence of women’s power over men, but Maxima would rebut that in the real world it really doesn’t work out that way as men (hashtag NotAllMen) do everything they can to take that power back. There are far more male pimps and strip club owners than female ones, and those people take a huge chunk of someone else’s earnings while providing minimal support, if any at all. And the two of them argue long into the night and everyone regrets inviting them both to the same party.
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the term is honey trap. If harem was on Maxima’s side she would be telling her Duce is SELLING WMDs.
Actually im not so sure that she would. She may answer to max in the normal day to day but this op may go way over her head. Catching deus in the act of selling the wmd is the most important part of the op and the conviction. K owing max she might blow the op by rushing in on deus.
The only one above Maxi, is General Faulke himself (oh, and possibly the president)
If she’s spying on Deus for Max, then telling Max what Deus is up to is exactly her job by definition, especially if it involves WMD.
Actually a lot of this would still require a warrant to have any kick to it. Like they have on that other guy who employs supers for his criminal enterprise.
What other guy? o_O
The guy who they talked about in the meeting. I forgot his name. I’ll see if I can find the link to the page.
Found it
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1902
Konstantin Zaitzev. He doesn’t count for a a few reasons.
1) He’s a Russian mobster so not sure he’s an American citizen in the first place, in which case it MIGHT be an exception.
2) There might be supers involved. They can only get involved though if they can prove the existence of supers, as Zephan said in the meeting.
Oh, him, wasn’t that with a regular police force though? Before Archon?
Oh right, Archon has been around for a while before ‘going public’, and the reason Archn is involved is because he is suspected of having supers, if it turns out he is just very good at ‘pre-super’ mob-work, hey will let regular LEA deal with him (unless the LEA’s request assistance)
The previous page, to the one linked, has Zephan indicate he is giving a briefing on Arc-Light activities. Amongst other things saying that “… we’re closing in on the Marble Maiden …”. So, no, when Zephan says “Here is another investigation that is nearing completion”, he is still talking about Arc Light cases.
As you say, Archon has been around for a while. And it had a precursor organisation which had a similar, if secret, role. The press announcement was just telling the general public.
We can surmise that the government wanted Archon fully operational before the briefing. As the press were not up to speed on the acts of law which had set up Archon, and made it exempt from the Comatose Opossum, I can only assume that the acts had been passed behind closed doors.
This is actually a reasonable precaution in the extraordinary circumstances. I could see politicians on both sides of the political divide agreeing to keep their deliberations secret, and to maintain that, until a grace period had given Archon enough time to be set up and indicate that they were ready to become fully operational.
Legally they could not make use of any law that the general public was not aware of, which affected the citizens themselves. So Archon would not have been able to arrest anybody whilst their organisation was secret. But they could operate in conjunction with local law enforcement, where arrests were necessary.
In this regard they would be the same as any federal agent who is not classed as a ‘special agent’. So the practice is fairly routine for police to cooperate with agencies which need such a service.
Actually normally they can’t just be called in to handle local police matters if the police ask for help, Yorp, specifically because of the Posse Comitatus Act since they’re a military unit. DaveB just gave a reason why it does not apply to Archon for their specific charter – it has to be for atypical things like supers when it comes to arresting people, or for non-police actions like rescue operations, in which the city and state governments can call them in for help since they can do things for a fraction of the price and time as the local governments could do them. He also did use a bit of an excuse that Archon was not in existence at the time of the act’s creation, although in real life, it would probably come under the same thing as the Air Force or whatever branch the general is part of.
You are reading my comment the wrong way round. I was saying that the local police help out federal agencies, not the other way around. There are tens of thousands of government agents, working across various bureaus in the US government, who do not have the power to make arrests.
If your day job involves making sure that bears do not steal pickernick baskets (or whatever), then you do not need to make arrests. But once in a while you may come across criminal activity, so would make a call to the police, to handle that side.
So we put that issue to one side then move on to special agents, who do have powers of arrest.
These folks though have areas of special responsibility. Let us stick with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), as I already mentioned them before. Should one of their agents wish to investigate a murder (with no connection to their remit) they would not be allowed to do so. They should pass any pertinent information they have to local law enforcement.
This is exactly the same as with Zephan’s briefing, where Arc-Light are having to determine the status of the case, to find if it falls in their remit.
Now back to the ATF. In a different case they are investigating a tobacco racket. This kind of crime is within their remit, and they have ample indicators that there is a criminal plantation in a remote wilderness location. So they raid it.
Only to find that it is actually a cannabis plantation. I don’t feel like looking it up, so I will arbitrarily say (just because it is not listed in their agency title) that is out of their remit. However that does not stop the ATF agents from being able to make arrests.
If a federal special agent sees a crime in progress they are entitled to make an arrest. They have jurisdiction to do that.
Even though you do not agree with the reason for it, Arianna does say that Archon does not fall under the Posse Comitatus Act.
Consider a similar situation, to the one above, with Arc-SWAT raiding a ‘super villain lair’. Only to discover it is a bunch of poser villains, who like to cosplay. Should it work the way you seem to be proposing then Arc-SWAT would not be able to arrest any of these villains. So they could make their escape, or continue with whatever crime they were committing.
Likewise for any situation where there are normals and supers working together. What you are proposing would require that Archon always have a local law enforcement officer (or a federal special agent from literally any other bureau) partnered with them, to allow for such contingencies.
The only possible way that Sydney could arrest a mugger would be to rely on a “citizen’s arrest”. Which any members of the public would, rightly, be concerned that Archon were going rogue and breaching pomatose opposium, to rebel against humans and take over the country!
So I think you are misinterpreting the Zephan briefing scene you linked as being broader than it is. He is just talking about their remit, but not their jurisdiction. As federal agents they must have jurisdiction throughout all US states. But their remit is to use that to counter super and extraordinary threats.
But they still would be able to make the same kind of incidental arrests, that any federal officer can, even against mundane humans, should the circumstances require that.
The warrant would be Max’s problem. If Harem was told by her commander to spy, then her job is to spy. Not being an officer, it’s not her job to address legalities.
Yup, Maxi’s problem, or, more likely the lawyers problem
Yes but part of the whole posse comitatus problem (that the armed forces cannot be used for executing the laws of the US except for EXPRESS acts authorized by the Constitution or by Congress) that Suzie Wen did bring up (even if she got the name wrong) is that Archon didn’t fall under it because of WHO they were policing. It had to be for other supers and the like to avoid the statute (whih could result in someone in the police or army – or possibly Maxima herself – being put in jail for 2 years I believe – not that anyone would be able to do that to her easily).
The only armed forces which isn’t actually subject to posse comitatus is the Coast Guard or any STATE national guard, and Archon isn’t part of that. I remember them giving some excuse on why it didn’t apply to Archon because Archon was not listed as one of the armed forces included in the act, although that wasnt exactly legally correct, but I never really said anything about that because there was something about Archon being congressionally mandated to deal with other supers which normal police would not be able to handle, which WOULD be an exception to the statute. But Deus is not a super, and can be handled by normal police.
Not that he would be because he’s a good and upstanding citizen who’s a hero to millions.
All praise Deus.
It was mentioned by commentators, rather than in comic. The reason being that the act was not all-encompassing, as you are implying. Rather it only specified the US Army, and subsequently added the US Air force. The Navy and Marines were not included, but chose to set up their rules as if it did.
However Archon has been specifically set up to be exempt from that. I do not recall Arianna saying that it was only for supers. Rather that supers (and ‘extraordinary threats’) are Archon’s responsibility to police. Just like it is some other agency’s job to focus on firearms and tobacco (because they are so similar).
Yet either organisation can still conduct an arrest of someone that they see committing some other crime, that does not fall under their mandate. But a US soldier can only do that if conducting policing operations on foreign soil. Hence why Archon have to be exempt from the act in full.
Yeah, Archon was set up to also include ‘atypical threats’, not just supers, as mentioned in the page listed above concerning ‘spying’ on US citizens (or simply US residents)
There’s also the fact that even if they WERE limited to potential super-threats, Deus’ sizeable staff of superpowered mercs would make him eligible.
Not really. Singling out a person to be arrested simply for what they are biologically would go against the writ of habeas corpus. You have to have an actual reason to arrest or investigate someone other than that they are super-powered. Ie, that they’re using those powers for criminal activities. Which they can’t show with Deus, but they could show that criminal activity is happening with Konstantin (they just can’t prove that it’s superpowered criminal activity with Konstantin’s people).
Actually no. Dave is right, a honey trap is a sting operation. The general term is “sexpionage”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexpionage
That’s an awful portmanteau. I think I actually prefer “silk work”.
Seconded.
All in favour say Aye.
Aye!
Aye!
Eye! (wanna watch, too)
Aye Eye Ai!
Nay. I like honeypot. Silkwork makes me think of silkworms. :)
But that is nice. It reminds me of the silkworms I kept as a pup. They were lovely.
They even spun a pink heart* for me!
* In actuality, rather than being said for comedic effect.
Never had silkworms, so I just think of them as worms. Which makes me go ‘ew.’ :)
Their name is misleading as they are actually caterpillars. So if you have ever picked up one of those, without freaking out, then you will know that they are pretty cute and innocuous.
In particular silk worms are not slimy like worms. The texture of their skin makes them feel really nice to touch (almost cloth-like) and warm (although that is probably just an illusion).
If you put one on the flat of your paw, they will try to make their way off. But pop a yummy leaf on there with it, and it will happily munch away instead. So they are fun to play with, if you are gentle.
Normally they only eat mulberry leaves. But you can make (limited) substitutes if you do so when they first eat, and ensure that you keep feeding them the same type of plant. Once they get used to eating one type, they will not make the switch to another.
I discovered a species of alpine strawberry which would turn their silk from the usual dull yellow, into a pretty pink colour. No dyeing required.
The other trick was to pick them up, when they started to spin their cocoon, and place them on a piece of cardboard, which had been cut into the shape you desire. Which would get them to spin silk evenly over that, due to some quirk of their instincts.
So putting alpine strawberry fed silkworms, onto a heart shape, would get them to weave a pink silk heart for me!
Can’t confirm for sure, but I heard the Russians used to do this a lot. They called it the “Sparrow school.”
Does she actually know that Deus broke into the vault?
She wasn’t there when he did it.
Apparently, at least, she was informed to keep an eye out for Sciona.
Since Deus hasn’t told them that Sciona’s been restored, that’s something Harem should tell Max muy pronto. Then again, if Harem wasn’t told Hudaheck that was that popped into Deus’s office, she may not have recognized Sciona, maybe? Or is Sciona’s original, non-orcified form known to Archon? Harem may have to correctly split hairs when talking to Max in range of hypothetical Deus spying devices.
Daphne knows it was Sci-fright, because when she *VORP*ed into the closed room, she told Maxi that she knew where Sci-fright is
that’s what the “apparently” was referring to. But when Sciona appeared a> did Harem already know that Sciona was regenerated or b> did Harem know what Sciona looked like before her orc-body; if b>, did Harem know because of Archon supplied info, or Deus supplied info?
If she only recognized Sciona cuz Deus supplied the info, then Harem has to explain to Max that she recognized Sciona from seeing just the top of her head at Mars, and “pieced together” the truth when the restored Sciona appeared at Deus’. Or some other plausible reason why she recognized Sciona & maybe why she didn’t pass on that info to Max.
Doubt Archon would have supplied the info, unless The Council supplied them with the last known appearance of Sci-fright (prior to her losing her head anyway)
If Deus supplied the info, then that’s good, because her job of keeping an eye on him (and gaining information from him) is working, unless of course Deus supplied that info knowing she is a triple agent (unless Daphne and Maxi realise that Deus knows and she is, infact, a quad-agent, if she becomes a quint-agent then she is a bad girl, and not in a good way… wait, that doesn’t make sense)
Who in Archon knows what Sciona looks like? The only two to see her was Pixel and Sydney. Then time was reversed to the set point, did they lose the knowledge that they gained? If so then they might not know what she looks like.
And that was before Sci-fright got her groove back
“Silk work”? Like… spiders, where the male can get eaten when he no longer serves any other purpose?
Uh oh. Is the author blurb implying that Harem didn’t follow the fight because she got “distracted”?
No, he isn’t.
Harem got distracted by the popcorn.
Ahhh… Goth Daphne/Harem I think she is my favorite of the five (looks wise at least).
Indeed. Especially with her holding the umbrella. Just delicious. But then I’ll drool over anything with the “hot topic twins” in it. If Dave ever publishes a vote incentive with Goth Daphne and Gwen, I think I’ll die happy. Of course I’ll be dead then, so that’s a bummer. But I’ll be happy. I think my wife might be a tad pissed at Dave though. So it’ll probably never happen. *sigh*
“Having to doing?” “Didn’t chose”? Oof, two typos in one update.
Fairly certain that Deus not only KNOWS that is what Harem is doing, but is actually reveling in it, what with the constant opportunity to use his repertoire of Austin Powers jokes.
He did say he not only suspected she was a triple agent, but was relying on it.
Not to ‘well, actually,’ but well, actually….
I did some research on strip clubs for some writing. Turns out, at least for the most part these days, strippers aren’t employees. Most clubs consider them ‘freelancers’ or ‘contractors.’ They pay an initial fee up-front to get time on the stage, and the house takes a cut of their tips. Now, some can make a decent amount if they’re very popular, and can afford to pay for more stage time, which gets them more exposure, which gets them more money, etc. But it’s a deck stacked against you even before you walk in the door and ask for stage time. Quelle surprise!
Max will have to add that to her arsenal.
Most do, some don’t. There’s actually a socialist strip joint in California. Lusty Lady I believe is the name, owned by the strippers.
Employee owned =/= socialist. It’s just another form of private ownership.
Just because it’s owned by the strippers doesn’t make it socialist. Avis Car Rental is ‘owned’ by the employees also. It’s not socialist – it’s capitalist. The state owns nothing of it. Neither does the state own any of the strip joint. That’s what socialist means – when the means of production, distribution and exchange are owned and regulated by the state. Also it’s not something that can be easily done ‘piecemeal; by one business here and there – it requires owning most or all of the means of production, regulation, and exchange of the industry.
No, but voting on pay and so forth does. As well as several other things. Which is actually the old definition of socialism, workers owning the means of production and organizing their lives around their place of work.
Politics have redefined a LOT of things in more recent years.
So being self-employed, and owning my own company, and having complete control over all the decision making, does that make me a socialist?
Kind of sounds like your definition also makes Deus a socialist too, in which case.
Since you’re not the State and aren’t controlling all the decision making of all the businesses in that industry, no – you’re not a socialist. You’re the opposite – a capitalist. :)
(I know you were joking around because of the ridiculous idea of Deus being a socialist but felt like responding anyway)
How dare you accuse me of being a capitalist! Take that back immediately!
*eyes tearing up*
Do not be ashamed of your capitalist tendencies. :)
I’m a not-for-profit capitalist. :-P
My work aims to take the world several steps closer to world-peace (in a practical, rather than wishful way). So my profit is the hope that lives will be saved. Although it would probably take a generation for the ideas to be put into effect, and then only if I manage to disseminate them widely enough.
Sadly, our society has been entrenched in conducting politics one way for a few thousand years, and people are used to doing things that way. So I imagine it will require exposing the current generation of students to the proposals to, years later, overcome the inertia to social change.
That way (and with a high-enough proportion of this generation’s students exposed to the concepts), they can compare the proposed changes, to how things currently work.
And hopefully they will agree with my assessments. So that when they, in years to come, find themselves in positions of power, they will be able to change society for the better.
Although I will try to earn some money in publishing the proposals (at a token price). Having an empty food bowl is not fun.
:-(
Not that I have succeeded in my attempts to get support in publicising the proposals (or even getting the powers that be to read my concepts). Approaching them (and the media for that matter) from outside academia means that I have not even managed to get my paw in the door.
So all I will be able to do is publish and hope that it goes viral. But the concepts are compelling enough that I can keep hope alive that will indeed happen.
*swishes tail tentatively but hopefully*
Here’s one of the reasons I like Dave Rubin :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K7pzTejBlM
Mmm, the guy seems to consider capitalism and democracy to be synonymous. I have an issue with the former, in that we give far too much leeway to companies to act without regard to the consequences for others. Where they cause death, financial loss and pollution, the punishments should be much more severe.
Rather than just a fall guy going to jail, I would want to see everybody who benefits from the acts suffer the consequences of investing ill-advisedly. If people want to make a buck from a company that is knowingly polluting the environment, they need to have as many bucks taken away from them as it takes to make good the damage.
Even if the company goes bust, those who caused the damage, by enabling the company, should be the ones shouldering the responsibility of fixing it. Namely the shareholders, directors and even the workers.
Capitalism places economic growth as the god from which all other ills can be cured. But it does not care what sacrifices are made to achieve that. So long as the entrepreneurs and investors profit, the consequences have to be born by the rest of society.
Whether you would consider that a socialist agenda or not, I do not know. But it is an issue that bugs me, regardless of what labels are put upon it.
As for democracy:
I have identified two flaws in democracy. And I have figured out a way to fix it.
Ironically, given the contents of the thread, by using a principle of capitalism. Namely allowing people to control their own destiny. Better than under the old version of democracy anyhow.
Sigh.
Voting has nothing to do with socialism. People owning a business is the EXACT opposite of socialism.
Politics has not redefined socialism. People trying to trick other people into thinking that socialism isn’t a bad political concept is what is trying to redefine it, so when socialism takes over a country again, and ruins another country again (as it inevitably does after the country has had it for long enough, or when the country grows enough in population that socialism can no longer handle the needs of the population), they can again say ‘well that’s not REAL socialism’ – the ‘No True Scotsman’ argument.
Socialism is, as I said before, when the means of production, distribution and exchange are owned and regulated by the state, either mostly or entirely. The post office is not socialism (the government is involved, they do not have a total monopoly over it, plus it’s specifically written into the Constitution as one of the few powers that government has). The army is not socialism (again, written into the Consittution and the federal . Voting is not socialism (it’s democracy or republicanism or representative democracy). Socialism is about the State mostly or entirely CONTROLLING THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION, DISTRIBUTION, AND EXCHANGE.
I find it alarming how few people understand what socialism is, or try to claim that everything is socialism because they don’t understand the difference between individualism and socialism, which are actually diametrically opposed concepts.
The government has been cracking down on what employers classify as contractors. I’ve read several stories of states closing places down with this arrangement until they fix their practices.
All Max has to do to win that hypothetical argument is take Dabbler to a legal Nevada brothel, telling her they’re not there to participate, but merely to pay to sit in the lobby and let Dabbler feed off the tantric energy of the place.
Twenty minutes later, she drags Dabbler out of the place, while Dabb curses like Sydney while complaining about wax fruit. Because frankly, that’s what the sexual energy of a typical ‘good’ brothel is going to feel like to her–the women are mostly bored or resentful (yes, there are exceptions, but they’re not the rule); and the guys have none of the connection to the women that would actually produce such energy–it’s more akin to masturbation with a physical aid.
Of course, most prostitution as performed in the world is actually much worse–simply put, Vehemence would get more of a fix off most streetwalker encounters than Dabbler would. Dabbler’s notion of prostitution, based on her own society’s mores, is probably far more akin to something resembling the Companions of Firefly, but even more a case of avocation matching vocation.
The actual practice of prostitution on Earth, save for a few very rare exceptions, runs the gamut from ‘like an office drone, but with less workplace safety’ down to ‘trafficking victim’.
Remember the argument in the restaurant about “a whore in the bedroom”? Part of the issue there is that English is NOT Dabbler’s first language, by a long shot. She knows the dictionary definitions, but none of the connotations that go along with the word “whore”. In practical usage, the term is always an epithet, and a fairly derogatory one at that–hence the term being applied to politicians who sell out in order to get campaign donations. Probably the closest human-speak variation that could apply to what Dabbler was thinking of would be ‘Courtesan’, and even then it was more sordid than Dabbler’s likely to have experienced on her homeworld.
(Note: “Sex work” covers a lot of activities other than prostitution, and the percentage of genuinely voluntary [distinct from ‘economic necessity’] participants in stripping and porn seems to be higher, so the above doesn’t necessarily apply to them as much.)
********
On a separate note:
If Harem’s in the office on assignment, if she’s not directly answering to someone higher than Max, then Max has every right to intervene (and Max herself might feel compelled to address the matter with Daphne’s superiors, if there’s someone else in charge of the op). The notion that she might be getting suborned by Deus via pillow-talk would absolutely be a major issue–the idea that she’d be able to sleep with Deus voluntarily (as opposed to an actual ‘Silk Work’ assignment) without being compromised in some fashion would be laughed out of any half-decent intelligence operation. Any intelligence operative is expected to keep their superiors up to date on ALL entanglements, even those that are seemingly unrelated to their assignments, for that very reason.
You’re making a lot of assumptions in this diatribe.
Succubi feed off of sexual energy. Full stop. There’s no qualifier stating that energy needs to be of a certain quality or that love or even consent needs to be involved. In Dabblers own words, “Tantric users absorb power from sex and lust.” https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1533. If that is indeed the case, then rape is a viable tantric power source. Whether the source of that tantric energy means anything to Dabbler has never been established as there has been zero exploration of what she considers moral, only vague assumptions made by the peanut gallery because she’s one of the “good guys.” Therefore she must share our human morals: “love good, rape bad.”
We have no idea what she thinks or what her motivations are because Dave has given us no insight in that regard. It’s like saying a vehemic user would only gain power from a street fight, a boxing match, or a war but not from someone beating his wife, a violent murder, or some other type of unsanctioned violence. You may not like the methodology, but ultimately your opinion is irrelevant, the nature of the power is what it is.
Except rape IS street violence. It’s not about sex. It’s about power and control. As such, Vehemence would get power from it, but I have to agree, Dabbler probably would not.
There is more than one type of rape.
Using hypnosis, a libido enhancing drug, anything that intentionally reduces the inhibitions and decision making process of the other party involved, and disguises *yes every time Zeus transformed to get with a woman, especially as say her husband, it was rape*. Also yes the Darth Vader disguise sex scene in Revenge of the Nerds was also rape as he was pretending to be someone else.
… I’ll point out that by the definition above, practically eveyrthing Dabbler does is “rape” since succubi exert mind-manipulating, libido enhancing, force in a supernatural manner… constantly. Also, she disguises herself and it is likely that not all of her partners are aware of her true nature.
… which, by proxy makes the entire team/organization complicit in all “rape” done by supernatural beings known about, but not outed by, the organization. (The crazy dance club comes to mind.)
It has been discussed before, but Dabbler skirts the line as to where consent ends. She seems more keen on old fashioned seduction and consent and uses her powers to enhance an already present emotion; although even that is a bit iffy in some legal circles.
A succubus by its common nature tends to fall under “fantastical rape” which is still rape. The folklore Succubus was a demon and the cause of “sleep paralysis” and “nocturnal emissions” as it raped, fed on, an potentially killed victims. Although one version of the Succubus would rape men, steal their semen, mutate it into demon semen, then transform into an Incubus, and then rape a woman and impregnate her with a demon child.
It is a predator, its sexuality is no different than the lure of an angler fish.
I mean (and purely to get as pedantic as possible) at this point it would really depend on how we define the emotion “lust.” Emotions have two components, psychological and physiological, and some emotions can have the same or similar physiological responses leading to confusion in the psychological interpretation, like how a fear response, an anger response, and an arousal response can have many cues in common (increased heart rate, perspiration, directional changes of blood flow that can be the same, etc.) and some times our brains decide what emotion we are feeling after the physiological response is already happening, so like someone’s heart rate goes up, they start to sweat, their face flushes, so the brain says “huh, I must be angry” after seeing that really attractive person, or that scary thing, or whatever. This is a part of what leads to confusion during adolescence because we are feeling new things that have a similar physiological response to things we felt before but with different stimuli than we are used to.
Lust is a relatively unique emotion because it has more to do with the physiological end of things than the psychological. It is the result of a biological imperative like hunger and sleepiness, as opposed to an evolved psychological strategy like anger and fear, or contentment and joy. Due to this physiological lust responses can be induced independently of the psychological component through pure manual stimulation (a dude can get an erection from playing with his thing long enough whether he wants it or not, and a lady who is prone to getting “wet” [I don’t know the technical term for it] will do so automatically from playing with their erogenous zones long enough whether she wants it or not). There are also situations where we describe a type of desire as lust despite a lack of a sexual component, and usually also the physiological one, such as a pirate’s “lust for gold” or whatever, or how I sometimes find myself “lusting” after new game materials purely for the content (frankly I rarely even look at the art in the first place because that isn’t what’s important in the product for me).
Due to this oddity inherent in lust, some victims of sex crimes can even manage to convince themselves that the psychological component must have been present, because otherwise why would the physiological one be there? Obviously this is a fallacy as the neither component is necessary for the other one, but not everyone knows this, and as I’m sure we are all aware humans easily fall prey to fallacies in our own thinking.
So to tie this all back into the primary discussion (and to get to my actual point, albeit rather later than I thought I would, admittedly) for Dabbler’s consumption of “tantric lust energies” how is lust actually defined? Does it only require the physiological response? If so, then rape and other sex crimes would totally work, in spite of the squickiness of it. Does it only require the psychological response? If so, then she could hang out at places that have a high proportion of fandoms or similar subcultures and get her fix whether or not actual sexual happenings are occurring, like game shops, book stores, libraries, comic shops, car dealerships, computer stores, shoe shops, toy stores, jewelry shops, etc. Does it require both the psychological and the physiological responses? If so, then would masturbation work? Does she only need one party to be feeling it, or both? If she needs both parties to be feeling it, then why does she get her fix when she engages with a single partner herself, as presumably she can’t feed off her OWN lust, right? Could she get her fix off of non-sentient or sub-sentient beings like (presumably) animals? In which case it could be argued that the psychological component isn’t as important. Is it the actual emotions that are important, or the actions that result from them? Could she feed off of two horny people lusting after one another in the same room together, or do they have to be actively acting on those feelings directly to give off the energy she feeds on?
Put simply, emotions are complex, convoluted, and confusing, and we simply don’t know WHAT it is about the emotion of “lust” that she feeds on, or how exactly the energy she gets from it is directly produced and as such we cannot know without further information what would and would not work to feed her.
This still has no impact on my assessment of the prostitutes themselves. They are not generally feeling anything approaching a lustful state; rather, they are performing (at best) or enduring (at the lower end). Neither of those will give Dabbler ANY sort of energy. The guys are a broader range; some may be genuinely ‘lustful’ in the tantric sense, but I’m still willing to bet that any given encounter would provide less energy from the customer than she’d get off a guy who had just picked up a woman at a bar.
Let me put it this way: If the typical sexual encounter has a value of S tantric energy, where S is the sum of both partner’s output, then the average prostitution encounter has a value of between 0 and S/2. Dabbler does seem to derive extra ‘flavor’, and possibly extra nutritional value, from the quality of sex (hence why she drives her partners to a level of mind-altering ecstasy.
Brothel sex is going to have the flavor of cold oatmeal, and the nutritional value of a Twinkie. There’s no way she would not notice that, and I strongly suspect she’d react very negatively to the idea that THIS is what humans use sex for.
This is a fair assessment, but still an assumption without hard evidence from Dabbler’s own mouth.
Max has no place to talk, as it’s her job to keep an eye on him and it would appear she wasn’t told just how to do it. So if Harem decides she wants to sleep with him, then it’s not against the rules.
She also likely has some higher orders. :p
Harem may be under orders to simply pass on anything Deus wants to know, even classified stuff that isn’t so highly classified that she’s not cleared to know it herself.
Offering up that information through Harem lessens the likelihood of his seeking it through other sources (think of the bribes, the paid hackers, etc), and the kinds of questions he asks Harem will tell them more about his interests. Having a known spy in your organization can be a valuable thing; even if the spy isn’t a double-agent, you won’t burn the spy unless she has access to intel you absolutely can’t let get out. Plus of course, she sees things to report to Archon (as she’s done now).
Of course Deus knows all this too, which means that the game here is an entertaining one; Harem’s there to keep an eye on him, and since she’s reporting back, whatever he lets her see is something he wants Archon to see. He also knows she only tells him things that Archon allows her to know herself.
If Deus was a villain (or anti-hero) in one of my stories, then he’d also have at least one more intelligence asset in Archon that Harem knows nothing about. Meanwhile he might actually be trying to flip Harem as a hobby; if it works, wonderful, if it doesn’t he can still use her as a way to manipulate Archon.
And of course Archon (well, the US government) likely has intelligence sources in Deus’ company.
Aren’t spy-games fun?
If I had to guess, Deus is far more interested in the game than the intel. :)
That’s the impression I get: it might pay off someday, but meanwhile he’s getting great entertainment for only a little investment.
And as an aside, I’m not sure how “trustworthy” Harem is as a reporter on her own sex life. Yes she implies a great deal, but she got very jumpy at Max’s too-blunt question. Thinking about her history, from what we’ve been told she had a rural upbringing? Fairly traditional parents? It’s been mentioned again that she’s only nineteen, which means she’s been out from under parental supervision for only a year and she may have gone directly from the farm to Archon, a very structured environment.
Yes, five bodies give her much more opportunity, but boys and girls lie about their level of sexual experience all the time; it wouldn’t surprise me if Harem’s sexual personae is all or mostly affectation. She’s basically cosplaying all the time, after all.
This does call back to . Dabbler both calls a bluff and lays it on really heavy caused her to get all flustered.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1913 (as apparently I’m not competent enough to link something in a sentence.
It also might be a matter of trying to establish boundaries. Harem is only marginally more military material than Sidney, and appears to be below her in terms of intelligence and imagination. There is a good chance that she might simply not grasp (or even imagine) the sorts of scheming that we’re collectively reached in the comments. There is every indication that the entire operation is quite new, and even figuring out what goes into “basic” is still being decided.
So when an authority figure starts digging into your sex life, you (hormonally still a teenager) are likely to instinctively demand that they back off. Maxima has her work cut out for her when she tries to get Harem to understand the operational issues surrounding spycraft–assuming that Maxima herself really knows them already.
As for just how experienced Harem really is… it seems at least as likely that she might have made use of a new clone to sneak out of the house as the flip side. We just don’t know yet.
Actually, it’s not Max’s *business* what Harem’s `business’ is about. Being her commanding officer does not make Max Harem’s puppet-master, with the final say over Harem’s every action. As long as Harem’s ability to do her job isn’t compromised, or she’s not breaking a law (or Article of the Uniform Code of Military Justice or Archon equivalent), it simply isn’t Max’s business. How would Max like Harem (or General Faulke) inquiring about her masturbation habits or technique? Pretty sure she wouldn’t approve…
In this, I see Max as blurring the line between Commanding Officer and protective friend. As CO, it’s not her business who Harem sleeps with or how often…as a friend, though, and knowing Deus from Way Back…
Really, I see Harem being part of Deus’ entourage as more of a `status’ thing. Neither Archon nor Deus *really* think the other is a problem, but we have to *look* like we’re covering all the bases and not showing favoritism. If she were an actual meant-to-be-effective intelligence asset, it’d be assumed by the Powers That Be (whether Max approves or not) that Harem would get `cozy’ with Deus. It ain’t nice, it ain’t pretty, but it’s the way the world works. The chemicals that flood men’s brains after sex lower our inhibitions and other mental defenses…in addition to making us fall asleep. Deus’ defenses may only be lowered a few percentage points at such a time, but that’s better than full power…
And does anyone else think it’s funny that Max is lecturing Harem on when/how she should have sex (and with whom)? I mean, isn’t feminism supposed to be about women being able to make their *own* choices?
Man, I love this comic!
Maxi was simply curious on how it would work, seeing how all five Daphne’s share sensory input, and one of her has to be ‘on-duty’ at all times, if one of her is in the middle of an enthusiastic partner (or more accurately, the partner is in the middle of her :wink: ), it could compromise the effectiveness of the Daphne on-duty
Random note : I really like the coloring and artwork for Daphne this episode.
it to me captures the feel of the early days of the comic that drew me in, in the first place.
(in contrast, i have disliked some of the coloring in the last year. it seemed somehow “off”)
Apologies, but frame two needs editing: …”a member of my team having to do silkwork” or “…a member of my team doing silk work”.
Whoops, yep, I edited that line a few times. Need to clean up the grammar a bit.
Regarding errors – Isn´t the umbrella metal rod missing in the first panel?
I think its just blocked by Harems breasts neck and head (leaning against the shoulder away from us.)
Once again, either both of them are playing for the camera (since they are out in the open and parabolic microphones exist) or Maxima is unaware the Harem is acting as a double agent.
And really Maxima, she took the super name Harem. That says something about state of mind at least. And considering Harem considers herself one woman and has multiple men, it’s a rotating male harem.
And since I haven’t seen anyone else post the pun (I might have missed) and I want to share the pain:
Q: Does this make Harem a back-door source (of information) for Deus?
A: “That is beyond personal. I am not answering that!”
There’s been considerable debate about undercover agents having sex in the UK over the past few years. The Met Police had a rogue unit, the Special Demonstration Squad, that was supposed to be monitoring extremist activity, but was also monitoring at least one Westminster party leader, a whole bunch of other people who were in no ways extremists, and trying to sabotage legitimate pressure groups. Along the way it turned out their undercover agents had entered into relationships with various women under their false identities, fathered several children, and then disappeared. The Met argued they had to do it to preserve their cover, the women that it amounted to rape as they would never had slept with the men if they had known their true identities. And of course there was the legal issue of child support. One case was settled for £425k and there were at least a dozen more making their way through the courts.
It would appear that max doesn’t know her history very well.
Spies of all genders had to do ‘silk work'(love the term by the way)
Including A Certain Mr. Roald Dahl
“…They include Millicent Rogers, the heiress to a Standard Oil fortune, and Clare Boothe Luce, a right-wing congresswoman and the wife of the publisher of Time magazine.
Boothe Luce proved so frisky, Dahl later claimed to have begged his superiors to take him off the assignment, only to be told to get back into the bedroom.”
When the “Me Too” movement gets moving in a few years, from Maxima’s point of view, she will be the first to support them. Somehow I do not she her as ever becoming a victim of sexual harassment or assault. If she is not careful about it though, I could easily see her becoming a kind of angry avenging angel against the perpetrators of violence against women. Colonel Leander definitely needs to always obey the rules of engagement and justification of force to avoid over-reacting.
Max: You like picking on women? Try me. I’m right here. Here, I’ll make it easy for you; I’ll kneel down so I am shorter than you. Does that help you feel powerful? No? Well, then don’t you dare think that you can use your power to push other people around, ’cause I can push a lot harder than you ever can, little boy! Be glad you are not in my jurisdiction.
You see those two short ladies over there? The one with the scar on her face? She is one of my best hand-to-hand fighters; you try something untoward with her and you will be eating pavement. The shorter one beside her is even more powerful and dangerous. You piss her off and you just might survive the experience, but maybe not.
Max better beware of the Law of Unintended Consequences. Since most abusers of women (and others) have Serious Issues regarding conflict and control, confronting one in such a fashion might push them into `proving’ their superiority against obviously-weaker opponents. No, they probably wouldn’t go after Max or Sydney…but their wife, girlfriend, bored teenage barrista….?
Abuse is a really complicated issue, which is partly why society overlooked it (and still does, in many ways) for so long. Easier to pretend it doesn’t exist than to do something about it, you know? As you said, Max will have to be careful not to become an angry avenging angel…is that guy an actual abuser, or did he defend himself because the girl punched him in the mouth? Are women equal or the `weaker sex’?
Those are all volatile subjects falling under the heading of `abuse’…and I don’t think any `movement’ is going to solve them easily, with or without Max’s support. Still, anything is better than ignoring it…
I don’t even want to think about what happens when one of Harem’s libidoes meets a guy carrying a STD… and then she whisks that body away. If she’s not careful, she could become a biological weapon in her own right, one that Dabbler might envy.
I am wondering about pregnancy. When she combines, does it go away? If not, when she then separates, does it stay in the same body? Does it grow while combined? Way too many questions.
It’s been explained that she doesn’t really recombine, the body in question is effectively put in stasis. Would be curious about duplicating a new body from a pregnant one though, might end up with a baby in a similar state to herself!
Harem does not combine back into 1 individual body.
Actually, Daphne does combine into one body, just which one of the five is entirely up to her, unless you meant a unique ‘sixth’ body
Love the detail that went into this one must have taken a while to draw
Hang on, which Harem is this, and where are her freckles? She doesn’t quite look like any of the five we see in the “Who’s who” section: her hair is purple all the way around.
Maybe imitating her boss in flattery? Or just a change in hair coloring/styling since the comic started?
This is Gothamer (the goth one, black hair with the purple Sydney-bangs), normally she has her hair mostly loose, butt this time it’s pulled up into a bun at the back
It’s easy enough to swap which Harem is on duty at the base, so that whichever Harem is regularly on duty there can take “time off” from this 24h/7/365 job.
the military has ways of coming between relationships, even if they don’t technically have the authority to tell you that you can’t. “Orders just came down from above, looks like you’re being transferred to the Israeli anti-insurgence division at dawn tomorrow. Sorry kid, it’s way over my head. Your country needs you.
Plus it’s the same mind for the 5, in theory, one of them could get all the sex (only limited by transportation issues a teleporter still have some of) 24h per day.
I can’t tell if you’re replying to me or if you meant to reply to yourself and clicked my comment instead.
Looks like the latter to me, with the 24 h link.
As for yours though, the US military do have that power, as fraternization is prohibited under military rules. This both includes within a unit and external relationships which could compromise the effectiveness of the unit.
There are a wide range of discretionary punishments available, but they go all the way up to and including a cours martial!
Yes but “you’re being transferred” only really works on people who don’t have 5 bodies, each of which can instantly teleport to places they’re familiar with.
Say, shouldn’t that copyright date have changed to 2018 by now?
It could be based on when it was drawn instead of when it was published.
Copyright in the U.S. is based on the date of publication and the date of the death of the author. I once bought a book that was supposed to be released in January, but actually made it to market the preceding December. So I got the book before its copyright date (year).
US copyright may have stuff that is counted from the date of publication. However copyright exists from the moment a writer or artist creates their work. Even unpublished works are thereby protected.
Hmmm…
Silkwork
Pillowwork
Satinwork
Yeah, Silkwork. Now officially a thing.
Seconded. We may now add it to the online dictionaries.
Incidentally, digging Goth-ne channeling Abby Sciuto here….
Very hot.
Hey, DaveB, it occurs to me that that last panel could be enlarged and could have the word balloon removed and it would be an amazing vote incentive.
Or you could print out a high res version of it at like 4′ tall and 2′ wide and send it to me.
Just saying…
Good choice. Excellent expression. Not to mention the superb shadows.
She has more than two backs, just saying… =p
Potentially, we could have as many as 10 backs, yes…?
…but since at-least one of her bodies must be on-duty at all times, that would mean at-least 2 of those backs would be involved in silk-work, otherwise she’d be guilty of deserting her post.
I thought “wetwork” was another word for golden rains.
Nope. Bloodshed. Of the terminal kind.
Ragingagnostic was making a play on words, with the ‘golden rains’.
Are they still at Deus’s place? I’d be very uneasy at discussing secretive meetings that concern him anywhere in his vicinity.
They are still on the same skyscraper, just on a lower level. We can see where Sciona fell through the roof.
Out of normal earshot. But, yea, I would be wary of surveillance equipment covering rooftop access points. Which with a high tech company like Machina Industries, could well include audio as well as just the visual.
Honeypots I think are the terms for spy missions involving sleeping with folks. With Swallow and Raven being the female/male terms accordingly.
– actually –
honeypots are far more often used in cyberwar operations as bait for enemy hackers/spies.
please read this ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
altho I’ll agree the original meaning came from spywork
it’s now evolved into hacker jargon
Heh technically like wetwork it came from criminal slang and just got coopted for spies anyhoo.
Throwing in that “NotAllMen” is like starting a sentence with “I’m not racist but…”
Hardly. The latter is usually followed by someone making a racist comment. In this context Dave was making a feminist statement, but sensibly qualifying it. The combined result still remains pro feminist. It just does not over-state the case though. As that would weaken the argument.
This is a community which will pick up on generalised statements which do that. Not that I am a fan of hashtag buzz phrases mind. But it is used appropriately, rather than as an attempt at an excuse.
Oh hey it’s Yorp. Of course it is, it always is, who else would it be?
I would swear you’re really just DaveB’s sock puppet if that didn’t mean you’re not Rebecca “Solanas Jr.” Cohen’s pet doggie.
Ooh you place me in esteemed company. I am honoured!
*wags tail contentedly*
Psst. Look back through the comments, and over the years. You will see that I have said some very critical things at times. I did not approve of Archon setting up a database of supers, just because they feel like it. Tracking innocent law-abiding citizens is not something that the police should be doing. As one example.
However when you look at issues regarding gender equality Dave is spot on pretty much every time. Sometimes he chooses to present things so that they look iffy, at first glance. But when you look at it from the various characters’ point of view their behaviour makes sense.
Not all of whom are feminists or even care about such issues one way or the other. The comic is much broader than that. It has characters who run the gamut of personality types and things which motivate them.
The military does NOT have to abide by laws applying to other employers, and does get know who you are sleeping with.
In point of fact, military personnel can lose security clearance, be discharged, or even have charges brought against them for having relations with persons within the same or certain other organizations, other governments, or even for cheating on ones spouse. Adultery isn’t a crime anymore unless you wear a uniform.
Maxima’s definitely crossing a line asking about specifics about the act of intercourse, like when it happens… but considering there is mission readiness aspects to the question she might be within allowable lines.
I was looking for the navy rules, but found the army rules instead –
very similiar, almost identical to the navy rules I was looking for
https://www.army.mil/article/138222/Army_updates_reg_defining_inappropriate_relationships
*PLEASE* when we start talking about navy & army & military
try to post a weblink to the *FACTS*
Keep in mind that ARCHON is a new organization and civilian/military combines like this often have different regulations governing the two groups. If Harem is considered to be a civilian employee she may be well within her grounds to refuse. If she is military she would be governed by her service rules. For obvious reasons I don’t think we have had or likely will have the thrilling “ARCHON Bureaucracy and Regulations Strip” I am assured that there will be no seating allowed during it.
Civilian or not, your rights are pretty well done when you get that security clearance–if you want to keep it. And since keeping the security clearance is required to be in Arcon, and being in Arcon is required for a super to actually use their powers….. Okay. I’m stopping now as this is a PG forum, and my military background is about to take over my description of the situation.
Bullshit on losing your rights when you gain a security clearance. I’ve held several. There are topics that can’t ask about when vetting, including politics and (before 911) religion. (note:they care less about religion then whether a person has radical leanings in any direction). In the military, laws about fraternization are stricter with officers than enlisted, and in particular, with civilians. A commander is supposed to be sensitive to a troop’s off duty situation, if it gets complicated, and is supposed to proactively (ie, order) the troop into counseling if there is any hint it may affect job or security. They will act so assertively it seems like they’re bending over backward to get an enlisted person straightened. But that’s protecting an investment in training, security vetting, etc, and it’s “self-interested enlightenment”, but it does work. The officers aren’t babysitters, but it may seem that way to civilians whose only experience is corporate hostility (you have a life? you’re fired!) to any ripple in the profits.
Relationships are updated on your security clearance paperwork and with the investigators who handle the clearance….NOT your commanding officer. The only things your supposed to report up the chain is if you think someone has been…(heh) pumping you for info. Whether as a casual contact or in a relationship. YOU are expected not to bring or discuss any of these things to a relationship. Honestly Sydney actually was walking a fine line way back when she had the redacted /classified discussion at the comic store she shouldn’t even have been doing that.
” The only things your supposed to report up the chain is if you think someone has been…(heh) pumping you for info.”
I think a “Hrm Hrm Hrm” would be more apropos.
She was simply curious about how it would affect Daphne’s other bodies, she justworded it wrong, and she admitted she worded it wrong
She was not looking for details or for names, just how it would affect, say, the body she is contractually obligated to have in uniform and on base at all times (not always the same body)
I imagine dating Harem would be tricky enough even if her power didn’t allow her to self-replicate.
I mean, with her ability to teleport alone, she’d be all over the place, trying to pack in every experience she can get. By which I mean to say… it seems she doesn’t want to be tied down to any one person. Over time, that’d be as much of a strain on a relationship as the fact she’s likely to just pop off to wherever as soon as she gets bored.
Okay, so we thought she was a double agent, but here it seems she is a triple-agent. But, there is reason to suspect she isn’t telling everything she knows to Maxima, so she could be a quadruple agent. Given that there are five of her however, I believe it would be only logical to conclude that she is a quintuple agent and is ultimately loyal to Arc.
:)
Ah but you forget that she knows that Max knows that Deus knows that she knows that Max knows…..so clearly I cannot drink the glass in front of me…
+1 always for any Princess Bride reference.
Where is that +1 button again?
Next to the ‘Edit’ Button :P
“Ah but you forget that she knows that Max knows that Deus knows that she knows that Max knows…”
So clearly I cannot schtup the Daphne in front of me….
So close…
But look at Daphne’s t-shirt. Maxima will know if she is a Scillian. But does Maxima know if Deus knows. And, although Maxima thinks he is an American, he himself may be an Italian American, from a certain isle!
In which case either Harem or Deus may have fallen victim to one of the classic blunders – the most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” – but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line”!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha…
*looks expectantly at Bad Penguin, tail wagging eagerly*
I actually thought the word was “seduction,” same as it is outside of spycraft.
You could, but there is a difference when it is being done for a TLA than on your own time.
I officially gave up trying to figure out Harem’s actions/motives some time ago. Same with Deus. I basically try to forget they exist unless they’re on the page.
Can someone explain the last two panels? I don’t get the implication.
Since there’s always a Daphne body on duty, if a boyfriend is doing his job properly by making another Daphne ecstatic, how does she keep that from interfering with the on-duty Daphne body’s performance?
As seen with the atomic wedgie, or when Sydney punched Daphne in the nose, with some sensations ALL of Daphne’s bodies react at the same time.
On a side-note, since one of her is on duty at any time, she’s working 168 hours a week, normally a full load for 4 people (5 people in countries with a 34 hour work week). Too bad she’s on salary because if she was an hourly employee, with overtime, she’d be getting paid for 229 hours per week. On the other hand, her salary is reeealllyy nice.
There is a difference though. The times where the wrong Daphne reacts to things tend to be times when something catches her off-guard. She probably has an easier time keeping her composure when she’s expecting to feel something intense.
I think the meaning of the last 2-3 panels is that Max suddenly realized how complicated the logistics of 5 bodies is, especially with regard to handling what electronic engineers call “channel crosstalk”. Max’s sudden awareness (& natural tendency to think logistically) was enough to distract her Sydney-style into asking an inappropriate question before her military training could filter it.
+1
Sounds like she’s sleeping with somebody on the base. Quite possibly somebody she’s not supposed to be sleeping with. Though I doubt “sleeping” has much to do with it.
Then your hearing needs to be checked
To me, the most important reveal on this page is that Harem isn’t monogamous. That settles an argument from I don’t know how many pages back.
It has come up more than once. Um, so to speak.
Harem clearly isn’t the girl for me. Just imagine having sex with her and knowing she is also having sex with another guy.
I could not inflict such cruelty on someone, making them realise just how inadequate they were!
Harem must have a close, personal friend on base.
I’m just glad he didn’t go with LOVEINT, which is the illegal use of government resources to spy on your significant other.
Yea, there was a case prosecuted in the UK, where a cop was using a police helicopter to take extreme range photos of people in the nude, such as sunbathing in their garden. Including someone known to him.
All the while that there were other crew in the helicopter, apparently unaware of what he was up to.
Where do you get that from? Where ever it is, send it back because it is faulty and defective
“Wait… Are you… Having sex right now?!”
“Define ‘having sex’?”
Being possessed of gender.
I make a wonderful chocalate cake I call “sex”….does that count?
‘Silk Work’ isn’t an official term? I understood the meaning easy enough, and seems pretty clear.
From what I understand, female spies who do that sort of work are called ‘Sparrows’ for some reason. No idea why.
I do like the term ‘Silk Work’ though, so go with that ;)