Grrl Power #58 – I’m sure she’s not the only one
The conversation between Max and Arianna could go on for pages:
M: If this was all above board, then why not tell me?
A: I knew you’d object, plus this way we got a genuine performance out of you.
M: What about the people in the bank who decide to sue you for assault and having guns pointed at them?
A: You’re assuming anyone finds out. Even if they do, we can put that on the contractors hired to do the robbery itself, men who will quietly disappear in to the legal system.
M: Don’t you ever deploy my troops again civilian.
A: Who said anything about deploying them? They were contracted for some side work.
…but let’s not tie up the story with all that. I’ll probably have a panel of those two getting in to it later but basically the take away is that Arianna can argue Max in circles and feels that her actions are legally defensible. Notice I didn’t say right. Just defensible, in that “Defend a bunch of cops caught beating a guy on tape? Pfft, give me a challenging one at least.” sort of way.
So there’s been some calls to add a forum to the comic, I think that’s a good idea for some of the longer discussions that spin off and some people prefer that format anyway, but don’t worry the comments aren’t going anywhere. Also I know that some of you are here from El Goonish Shive so I’ve set up over at the 910CMX community. Like I said, comments aren’t going anywhere, that’s where I’ll still be checking in the most, but I’ll definitely have a 910CMX tab open from now on as well. (Bringing my total number of perma-tabs to 10) Also be aware that they manually approve applications for new accounts which can take a little while but the upside is there’s no issues with spam over there. I’ll add the link in the nav and some other stuff to the page this week.
Also I’m still poor from getting my brakes done so if you’re enjoying the comic please share it, tweet it, whatever. Thanks! Also I’m going to recharge my own AC so that’ll cost $15 instead of $150 at the shop.
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Cars aren’t so heavy! Just lift it and your poster tube will be fine. xD
True, but if it is max’s car. Want it bet that is armored?
How do you know that is max’s car?
i think it’s assumed it’s her car because she “knows” it won’t be leaving until she gets done there, and therefore the Tube will still be there until that time as well. if it was someone else’s car, there is the chance that the driver could move the car and Sydney would get her Tube back before Max was finished.
how could it be max’s car? the tube was loose a little while ago and max has not been in a vehicle besides the ambulence since she was in the bank that i could see any ways
Sydney went behind the ambulance to answer the phone, so when Max decided to talk to the guys in the ambulance she stuck the tube under the tire to prevent Syd from wandering off. This all happened off camera, so we can’t be sure that’s how it went down, but Maxima was the last person to have the tube (and let’s face she’s the most like to have put it UNDER a car instead of INSIDE a car.)
Why lift it? If the brakes aren’t on, you can push/roll it forwards or backwards. That’ll get it off the strap. I think Maxima lifted the back end and placed it on the tube’s strap so she didn’t need to check whether or not the brakes were on.
If you don’t put on the break, you usually leave it in gear. Doubt a small woman like Sydney can do that, it requires a large amount of strength.
actualy from what i see on the page,, and from what i know of things,,, the strap should have slid off by now,,, i mean,,, those are either heavy nylons fibers or leathers,,, both of wich slide easely on asphalt,, and since a tires doesnt represent so big a zone ,, its higher friction coeficient would simply slow things a little
Actually, it looks like Sydney’s got the strap partially up the tire’s side, so she can’t pull it under the tire no matter how hard she tries.
Maxima did that actually, it’s also under the tire and not behind it in #54
And if she was thinking straight, I’m sure she would try to do one of the smart solutions like sliding the strap under the tire or unfastening it from the tube.
The thing is she just went through a bizarre day involving this very tube getting her stuck several times, foiling a bank robbery, and meeting a superhero. At this point she’s just reacting to events and she’s very angry at that tube. So she’s just yanking on the tube, which is causing the strap to rise off the ground and catch on the back of the tire. Given time to calm down, Sydney might yet get it unfastened, but she probably won’t get it.
Guys “Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story!” – Wilson Bob Tucker. Or in this case comedy gold – me.
Why not just cut the strap on both sides of the tire?
me i can already see max standing behind sidney,, letting a small cough to get her attention,, sidney doing a goofy smile at her,,,,, then the strap snapping because she is still in extention,, causing her to fall and crash the can on either maxima or the ground,, breaking it open and revealing the content:)
Sydney is HILARIOUS today. See you guys over on the forums!
Absolutely!
Think I’ll use this name instead of Khalagata if anyone is confused, :)
Ah, wouldn`t we all?
Also, Sid`s attempts to free “her tube” are pretty funny…..
waiting for the strap to break just as Maxima is standing behind her
Despite her justifications, any halfway competent lawyer on the other side would have Arianna for lunch – eg. Maxima might be highly powered and skilled, but she could STILL make mistakes, etc.. And people ALWAYS find out, sooner or later. Anyhow, I’ll leave that be and move on.
Love the last two panels with Sydney – pretty much what I expected was going on.
careful not to overfill the air conditioner. you could pop the pressure gasket and those are not always self resetting.
Yeah I have a gauge… thingy that a guy who knows a lot more about that than I gave me. The only thing I’m concerned about is I don’t need to completely refill the freon… or whatever goes in there, just top it off. The pressure has dropped a bit and it’s not quite keeping up with the record breaking Texas summer. Thanks a lot for that, carbon dioxide. I’m not sure what to do with the remainder of the freon in the bottle. Once the top is punctured… what do you do with the rest of it besides try and snap freeze local squirrels?
There’s supposed to be a cold front coming thru sometime today or tomorow, so don’t wory about the heat so much. Nice comic today, by the way. shows that Arianna at least thinks ahead and is observant. Can’t wait till next week where Maxima calmly lifts her car up and asks what’s in the tube.
Leave your refill kit connected to it. That will keep it sealed fairly well for the next time you need it. There will be some leakage but very little and you will have plenty left next year for example. Plus if it’s actual Freon, and not coolant 132a, it’s hazardous to the ozone layer and illegal to just release anyway.
you live in texas? sweet o_o didn’t know one of my favorite web comics came from the same state as me
is it a single gauge or a three point? also yes, the best thing to do is to just close it and wait until you need it again. i also understand the desire for high functioning A/C. i too live in TX. and its not carbon DIoxide that’s the significant problem. it’s carbon MONoxide. thank you disinformation of the modern era. the emissions from vehicles and large portions of the modern industrial complex is carbon monoxide. however when they started pushing the global warming/green agenda they changed it to suit their needs. to quote Malcolm Reynolds, “Half of writing history is hiding the truth.” but i digress. if the gauge you have is a single blue one you still run the risk of overfilling. the blue line runs to the low pressure side of your compressor. if its the three point (blue, yellow, and red) just make sure its hooked up correctly.
Not to devolve the comments into a climate change discussion, but both CO and CO2 are produced by burning fossil fuels – mostly CO2. The better tuned your engine is the more CO2 your car produces and the less CO. Emitting CO is a sign that your air/fuel mix is low. CO, while poisonous to anything with hemoglobin (it bonds to hemoglobin molecules about 100 times as hard as O2 does, effectively bonding permanently which is why CO can kill you with prolonged exposure) by itself it doesn’t contribute to climate change, but add a little O and a catalyst like heat from sunlight and it will change to CO2, and CO2 is tremendously insulative, thus contributing to climate change.
Also I guess it’s single point AC.
ROFL you both jumped away from me here. I was talking about the freon harming the ozone layer if you release it from the refill tank. How did we get into a discussion of CO versus CO2? That is completely off the topic of what to do with the leftover refill gas. ^_~
Hi DaveB! First, I’ve come across your webcomic quite by accident a few weeks ago and can say I don’t regret it ^_^
I’m quite loving Maxima for her “don’t mess with me” attitude (plus, she REALLY seems to be able to make anyone regret messing with her… :) ) and Sydney for her fun actions :D
So far, so good regarding the comic : it’s easy to read, characters are well drawn and are really different from each other, colours are nice, story progresses slowly but steadily… Nice job! I can hardly imagine how long you spend on each page!!
I can’t wait to see Maxima do some “real” superhero stuff : fight evil guys, lift cars, bend metal bars, squeeze guns in her hands (Wonder Woman style ;) )… I’m sure that’ll come eventually!
Just a quick remark regarding today’s comic: to make it clearer that Maxima speaks with Arianna who’s not on the same location – via a phone, you should either draw rectangular “bubbles” and/or put the characters in italic for Arianna’s sentences. Just my two cents ;)
Anyway, keep up the good work!
I get what you’re saying, but that’s what the zigzag balloon tail is for. I think the more deformed the word bubble is the more altered the words you’re reading should sound in your head, and they have pretty good phones. :) I’ll save the square balloons for the guys that sound like Cylons. Proper Cylons, not the ones that are medically indistinguishable from a human. Also known as “a human.”
Oh I see now… That’s just that there’s no zigzag end in the reply on Arianna on panel 4 ^_^
Regarding the square balloons, I suppose you refer to Cylons ending their sentence by “By your command.” :oP
Yeah panel 4 was pretty crowded. If I put it at the bottom then it’d be pointing at Robber 2/Amorphus, if I put it higher it’d be overlapping Max’s face. Basically I added dialog after I drew that panel which I probably shouldn’t do.
I am also used to the “italicized phone voice” convention. The little Max-head in panel 5 keeps it from looking like “management” there is monologuing – perhaps an Arianna-head in panel 4 would’ve kept Max from looking like she was having a conversation with someone off-panel? This is a stylistic thing, though – I understood the conversation just fine.
Yep, having the same problem – and it’s not the first panel where I didn’t realize at first who was talking.
So that’s got to be an amazing portfolio tube. I was expecting the metal “ring” to have pulled open already.
well,, on an earlier panel we could see that it has a lock on it,,,, and if i remember right we should in fact see it on this panel to,,, so yeah,,, its most l;ikely a high security poster tube,,,
yup,,, on this one,, bottom center panel,,https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/317,, we see a lock hole,,, and from thw way we see it,, we should also see it on the last panel of this page to
Yeah I forgot to draw it. I mean, that’s the bottom of the tube.
Hmmm who was it that mentioned yahoos with Conceal/carry liscenses?
I definitely modified some of the dialog of today’s page based on some of the comments. Maybe I shouldn’t have cause it makes the page a bit wordy but a good bit of dialog is a good bit of dialog, plus more word bubbles means less backgrounds! I’m not sure at what point I need to start crediting people for contributing to what is essentially crowd sourced dialog but uh, thanks for that at least!
I’m not for thinking that most of us would get bent out of shape about it. I think it’s actually kinda flattering that you pay attention to what we say enough to get dialog idea from our discussions.
Agreed. Always nice to know our rantings are being listened to. ;)
Well I think it bodes well for the future. One day you made need to concentrate more on the art and have someone else write the dialog. Most comics end up being collaborations. Eventually you my wish to invite a commenter to help.
Sydney reminds me of when my cat grabs my hand with his forepaws and kicks with his hind legs. LOL
I like how Arrianna seems almost blase’ as she answers Max’s question about the so called bank robbery.
Sydney reminds me of my younger sister. I can definitely see her doing this kinda crap, if say I roll over onto her backback strap. >:3
One of the fake bank robbers says blops instead of boss just thought you should know
Unless of course blops is someone’s nickname or something instead then nevermind
It’s BlOps as in short for Black Ops. I call “Call of Duty:Black Ops” CODBLOPS, and I know a lot of gamers do too, so I guess we can assume that Amorphus has an Xbox.
Well, that makes sense. I’d assumed it was meant to be “Slops”, but with the slightly cramped ‘off-focus’ writing making the S run into itself. Slops, of course, being the Supers’ name for a ‘black hat for hire’ agency of some kind, possibly named either for prison food or for the state of said ‘black hats’ after missions.
true, he may have an X-box, but the Military trains that kind of talk out of you… and if you’re in the industry (of Black Operations, that is) you DON’T call attention to the fact you are participating *IN* BLACK ops.. black meaning they are under cover, and possibly doing illegal things to begin with, as opposed to white ops, which would be practically shouted out loud from the rooftops, and every one involved would be wearing their DEA, and FBI jackets, etc…
they should have said just “No, ops said…”, or maybe “control said…”, basically something that a non-unit-member that overheard them wouldn’t be able to tattle-tale with. just because the two are whispering it doesn’t mean nobody ELSE heard it, heck the ambulance company may be recording all that happens in the ambulance for insurance purposes… kinda like some school buses, and some public bus services do, that way if anybody sues them for… whatever… they can pull the data and say, “Nope WE didn’t kill the patient, see… he was alive when we pulled into the hospital”
well, I’ve been following this comic for quite a while now, so I went ahead and created a forum account. I look forward to sydney’s tube finally getting opened, even if I know what’s inside already I don’t know EXACTLY what. .it. looks like.
Okay, is it just me, or does Arianna’s expression look distinctly predatory in the second panel?
Well, it isn’t like Arianna has looked herbivorous in any panel so far.
Another great page. Sydney being Sydney with her family jewels caught in a hard place. (Aarrgg!) Now Maxima could just roll the truck with a push, drive it if it is her’s, or lift it depending upon her mood. I like the nice cartoony fill in at the bottom to make sure we know that Arianna made sure Maxima would be at that bank that day. Sneaky. No wonder she was so sure of what would happen. Except for the X-Factor of our gangly Sydney spastically getting super on the bad guys asses! I prefer real military parlance over gamer lingo myself.
Yeah, gotta love Arianas logic. “It’s not a set-up because they can’t prove we knew you’ld be there!” “And the live ammo?” “It was safe because we knew you’ld be there!”
*epic facepalm*
And, Off to the forum!
AWAY! (swoosh)
is it safe to say that ‘the tube’ is at the top of her list?
or is it the only thing on the list in the first place?
Seeing as the only one we’ve seen is about half full, i’m 99% positive that somewhere in there is someone or somthing else (probably ‘THAT GOLDEN SKINNED WOMAN’ or ‘license plate 555-748A’). Allthough knowing Sydney i just can’t say for certain.
Hmm. Am I over-thinking again, or does the fact that Arianna’s headset is wireless while Maxima’s is wired-up imply that Maxima has some short-range interference effect on wireless transmissions? Not enough to be readily noticeable at a reasonable distance (i.e. a distance that wouldn’t automatically lead to pain), but enough for it to be worth using more shieldable cables. Or maybe she’s just paranoid about eavesdroppers – possibly with good reason, depending on the local Supers. (Presumably the wire is routed through the ear-hook instead of going directly to the main body of the headset, hence why it isn’t visible in panel six.)
As I’m sure I’ll put in the comic in some form or another at some point, the corded headset is one less point of failure (battery) and improves communication since the bluetooth connection can experience interference and can introduce lag into a conversation and thus is required for field ops. Plus it’s one less thing that can be hacked. You’d need to be pretty close to do it but it in a world where there might be someone who can taste bluetooth fields it seems like a reasonable measure. Or course, who’s to say that guy can’t listen in on the phone to antenna communication or even talk to the hardware itself, but you do what you can. If Maxima does emit a field, it’s probably not in the 1.6 Ghz range.
The wired headset is also one less source of electromagnetic radiation. It’s very easy to imagine the bad guys whipping up a Bluetooth sensor.
man you just have to drag it out when are we going to find out
It’s really not my intent, I just have a lot of (IMO) funny and interesting scenes I wanna get in there first. :P I’m already pretty sure I’m cutting a scene that’ll take 4-5 pages just to get to the reveal faster. I know how I originally envisioned the reveal and it’s probably different than what people are imagining, and I’m kind of starting to question that too. :P I’ll probably regret changing it at this point so all I can say is enjoy the ride. I’ll try and hurry it up without sacrificing anything.
Even with all this justifying, one of the “fake” robbers flipped out and in a moment of anger intentionally shot a civilian for being annoying with live ammo.
I don’t think “I knew my co-worker who didn’t know I wasn’t a real criminal is going to catch the bullet” would fly in court, the press, or anywhere really. Well, it probably will mitigate the the crime but its still a serious crime.
I quite like how you did Maxima’s face in panel 4. It feels… more natural, I think, than the way you usually do her face. I can definitely see a few things moving it towards that look; The eyes are more realistically shaped and sized with a less pronounced eyelash, the eyebrows are smaller, the cheekbone is set farther back. The nose points upward significantly more and the chin is rounded and set farther forward.
It’s actually kind of interesting how different it looks from a standard Maxima.
Thanks, yeah I think it’s a good face but it’s not quite Maxima’s face. In my mind she has kind of a sharp look to her, partially cause of her reflective skin but also cause of her stern eyes and jaw/chin. I don’t quite have a perfect picture of her yet, even though my favorite drawings of her so far are the silly ones of her reacting to something Sydney is doing.
One thing I didn’t quite like in this page was the color of the mumblings by the Hired Goons. As I ahve sight issues, it was a pain to zoom-and-squint to read them.
Yeah sorry about that. Getting the font size just right is tough. There are a lot of webcomics out there that due to hand lettering or tiny fonts are unfortunately a lost cause when it comes to following the story. I think the main dialog font is pretty legible, but now I’ve got a trend going where I have background dialog in some pages and to show they’re not a part of the main conversation I drop the font size and contrast a bit which does make you have to lean in a bit. I can probably ease up on that a bit and still make it clear that it’s background dialog. I’d add transcripts to the page but I’m not sure where I’d stick that. Maybe in a collapsed panel that could slide out if you clicked on it.
Max just had to stick it under the tire, unless the tube somehow managed to crawl it’s way under and get itself stuck. And I’m loving the conversation between these two, I have no doubt an entire chapter could be purely built from their argument. XD
Not trying to be a dick, but based on their actions and justifications in the comic I’m seriously having problems believing these are the “good guys”.
Pointing weapons at clueless innocents, whether or not they were employees of the bank (and not all of them were) IS ADW, period. Being hired by the bank isn’t a “get out of jail free” card when you’re threatening the lives of people who weren’t a party to that contract.. Plus there is no court (in anything close to the real world) that would hold that an employer gets to traumatize you by putting you in reasonable fear of your life just as a “test”. Criminal charges and civil lawsuits all ’round!
Pushing, beating, smacking, and choking innocents? That’s totally cool so long as you get some good PR out of it? Again, both a crime and a civil tort (and really wrong).
Legalities aside, traumatizing people by making them reasonably think they’re going to be killed isn’t some mild inconvenience. Even if you want to say the bank employees (that they SHOT AT) are somehow okay to threaten, the “robbers” weren’t wearing masks or attempting to disguise themselves. Any customer with two brain cells to rub together is going to add “crazy shooty angry bank robbers” + ” they didn’t wear masks so we all know what they look like” to equal “OH GOD THEY’RE PLANNING ON KILLING US!”.
Traumatizing people that severely isn’t harmless, even if it doesn’t leave a visible scar. Not only did they hurt innocents (and that sort of extreme distress is pretty damn harmful), but some of them may go on to develop PTSD or otherwise have some continuing psychologicall harm due to the horrific fear they experienced – PTSD doesn’t just occur in war zones, but can occur after any major trauma.
Hell, some people have had severe mental reactions, and required extensive therapy, after just being having thier home broken into when they weren’t even there – how much worse would fearing you’re going to die be? I mean, is the government going to offer free counseling for all these people to prevent further damage? And even if they do, it doesn’t erase the harm they already did.
It seems like you’re presenting Arianna as totally happy with all the horrible things they did to everyone – since, hey, they’re not going to get caught! Is that what you’re meaning to do? If so, great, she’s kind of a cheery sociopath who could be a real interesting character going forward. If not, uh, I guess she skipped the ethic lectures in law school? And in life in general? I mean, if nothing else we’re talking instant disbarment in any state in the union if this ever got out she arranged something like this. But it seems like that so long as nothing gets traced back to her it’s okay. Even if it’s wrong. I mean, really really wrong.
Look, I’m not trying to nitpick little stuff, but I don’t think this is little stuff (assuming this is supposed to be something close to “the real world, but with superpowers”, anyway). In their debut, you’ve shown a team of superhumans who apparently are fine with breaking laws and traumatizing innocent people so long as it: a) benefits them, and b) they can get away with it. This is supervillain logic. This is the kind of plan the villain Syndrome came up with in The Incredibles, if maybe not so murderous. Hurting innocent people to help yourself isn’t really superheroing, you know?
Now if all this was intentional, then fantastic! I’m looking forward to seeing what happens when things are not so clear cut in a superhero comic! If not, then…I dunno. I don’t think you need to (or should) go back and retcon everything and delay the story just to patch logic holes. But in the future, maybe you could make sure to bounce more of these ideas and plot lines off friends/family/editors, letting them try to pick them apart, to help make sure what you’re trying to say all holds together and doesn’t give readers like me the entirely wrong idea about the story.
Finally, thanks for the comic! I really am enjoying it, since if I wasn’t I would never have cared enough to write this ridiculously long post about it.
Arianna = Cheery Sociopath. I think you pegged her with that one.
You’re right about most of that. It doesn’t seem heroic at all, but you guys don’t quite know the personalities of everyone involved yet so let me explain how I see them, hopefully that’ll help this scene make a little more sense. Maxima is ostensibly a good
guygirlWoman. But that’s really only because she likes beating up bad guys. Saving innocents thwarts bad guys’ plans, she doesn’t necessarily care about the innocents in and of themselves. That being said, if she can catch a bullet and save a life or stop a runaway car or keep a bus from going off that bridge she’ll do it because she can and why wouldn’t you? Really she’s a better person than she gives herself credit for, but still she doesn’t really like ‘the public’ because of how much she sticks out and how that prevents her from doing anything as simple as getting some coffee without causing a scene. I’ve probably missed some opportunities already to have people reacting weirdly around her. As far as this scene in the bank is concerned, the bad guys were thwarted and nobody got hurt. She is upset with Arianna, oddly not for putting innocents into this situation, but because she hates anything involving PR.PTSD is a real problem, but Maxima’s been in the Air Force for over a decade at this point and was deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. To her PTSD isn’t legit unless you’ve watched your buddy die screaming cause he got both his legs blown off by an IED or you had to shoot a child cause it was running at you with a grenade. Someone tells her they have PTSD from having a gun pointed at them, she’d tell them to “Grow up you fucking baby.”
As for Arianna, she’d object to being called a sociopath, would argue down to a lesser epithet, and then get a restraining order preventing you from calling her that in any public forum. That doesn’t mean she isn’t though, at least not any more so than any marketer or lawyer. She’s all about perception and spin, and would be the person standing at the podium with the smile in panel 2, telling you why the BP oil spill is a good thing. (I can’t think of anything positive to say about it but lets assume Arianna could.) “BP looks forward to improving their safety record / This gushing plume illustrates that we’re nowhere near peak oil” etc.
So yeah, there isn’t a Superman or Cap. America on the team, I don’t believe in the real world that 100% Lawful Good really exists, but neither Max nor Arianna are the best the team has to offer in that regard anyway. What Arianna did is shitty but from her point of view, she got a super on film saving innocents from criminals, jump starting supers as a whole down the good path. Yes supers exist doing ‘regular’ jobs but they haven’t gotten in front of a camera all that much yet, and there have been incidents of super crimes which hasn’t really come up in the comic yet, but it’s mostly stuff like someone tearing open a safe and making off with the contents, which gets the usual mass media fear mongering treatment, but there haven’t been incidents of someone rampaging through a mall and setting people on fire with pyrokenesis, at least nothing that wasn’t able to be quelled in the media to some degree. Arianna’s trying to push the image of supers as heroes and this is one step of that plan. If some people get shaken up over a robbery that she can control vs. internment camps full of supers, then it’s a no brainer to her, the greater good is served.
Edit: I guess that’s the super long way of saying that I’m not a fan of 2 dimensional characters and basically, yeah, it is all intentional.
Oh, and the idea of a lawyer having to take an ethics class makes me laugh. Granted the only thing I know about lawyers is from TV law shows and news articles about miscarriages of justice, but I’m basically of the opinion that prosecutors and defense lawyers only care about winning, not justice.
One thing I thought was interesting was when my boyfriend was (foolishly, it turns out, since he was miserable in it) trying to major in accounting, he was reportedly told that the difference between morality and ethics is basically that morality is a personal thing whereas ethics is controlled by law. True accountant logic for ya there, eh?
In any case, there are certainly “Lawful Good” people in the real world… it’s just that they can skew dangerously close to Lawful Evil given the right pressure. For those not as well-versed in traditional D&D alignment descriptors, all Good means is “Selfless rather than Selfish”, and all Lawful means is “Prefers laws and order to chaos or impulsiveness.” A Lawful Good person could just as easily be a random Amish farmer as it could a Paladin. A good player or Gamemaster understands that, as in the real world, these axises of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil are merely indicators of the person’s personality tendencies; strongly leaning more towards impulsive or orderly, or towards giving or selfish (as opposed to your “Neutral” which is in between the two, and on the Law/Chaos axis probably describes a lot of people). Someone who believes very strongly that there is a right and a wrong and is very empathetic and willing to help others would be “Lawful Good”… they’re also, depending on how strictly their “right and wrong” sense is, scarily close to being terrorist recruits. Literally the only group of people who’ve been found to be statistically more likely to be successfully recruited as terrorists (about five times more likely than average, IIRC) is engineers, which if you know anything about engineers, makes a lot of sense. If it’s not completely right, it’s WRONG.
This can be very interesting to play with (Well-Intentioned Extremists, as TV Tropes puts it, not terribly uncommon in fiction or real life), but characters that are less extreme in their impulses are indeed more realistic, at least in the sense of being more common in real life. Most humans are at least a little bit selfish, but unless they’re seriously spoiled or traumatized growing up (and the latter is no guarantee of this), they’re generally not all that bad, either. And we’re very good at rationalizing stupid, risky decisions for a perceived high gain, really. It’s why gambling will never completely go away, and why making prostitution illegal never makes it go away either, any more than murder and theft being illegal keep a small minority from committing them, either.
I do like Maxima, so far. Very “normal” for a super, the way you describe her personality-wise. It’s kind of refreshing, and makes perfect psychological sense to me given her abilities and appearance. Not truly apathetic, but about as apathetic as you naturally would be if you were that immune to harm and that used to crazy crap going down around you and stuck out that much from the people around you. Little wonder she has no tolerance for BS.
I have a slightly different interpretation of the terms morality and ethics, and granted some people will find this to be niggling semantics, but I think they’re separate terms entirely. To me, ethics is about causing the least harm/doing the most good and can be determined scientifically. Morality, as you said, is personal, but has little to do with right and wrong. It’s mostly about what a person finds “ooky,” and is usually religiously derived. Premarital sex or homosexuality are considered immoral by some, but there’s nothing actually wrong with them. No one’s hurt by it. Morality is a way that people can push their views on to others, and in my opinion the world would be a better place if we dispensed with the concept entirely.
That’s an interesting take, and you may be interested to know that there are already separate terms to cover those interpretations. What you call a difference between “ethics” and “morality” is basically the difference between the concept of the “peremptory norm” (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peremptory_norm ), and “mores”. Basically, genocide is pretty easy to argue is “objectively” wrong, because it kills lots of people who didn’t attack you first for no good reason; that’s a peremptory norm. Whereas your example of homosexuality isn’t even “wrong” in every culture; that’s a “more”.
I was originally taught (in an Intro to Psychology course) that that was really the difference between “norms” and “mores”, but it seems that the terms overlap a little more in real-world common use. “Peremptory norm” is more accurate to what I once considered the definition of “norm”. (Which I guess means we both learned something from this discussion! Awesome <3 )
Of course, peremptory norms are easier to define on large-scale levels like genocide. MASS murder is clearly wrong, but what if, say, you kill someone because you saw them kill someone else and think they'll kill again? There are some who feel an Eye for an Eye is the right reaction to that kind of circumstance, and then there are some who feel that that just "leaves everybody blind". This is also why I would argue that the "Lawful Good" alignment as portrayed in D&D literature (yes, I'm including source manuals in that category) is dangerously easy to convert into a much scarier position; if you believe so strongly that there is a Right and a Wrong, and start to feel that the world isn't Working Right… well, very easy to get into supervillain territory there. Reminds me of Dr. Horrible, who was always making excuses about how society was so screwed up that the only way to make it better was to cause "Anarchy! That I run!" :)
Remember, as the t-shirt says, “Chaotic evil means never having to say you’re sorry.”
Personally, I think that lawyers are no different to any other group of human beings when it comes to matters of ethics or morality. There are good ‘uns, not-so-good ‘uns and downright oxygen-thieves. Just like with truck drivers, or cartoonists, or doctors, or people who discuss stuff on the Internet.
As regards defining morals and ethics, I believe Theodore Sturgeon did it admirably well (and very succinctly) in his book ‘More Than Human’:
Ethics – The individual’s rules for society’s survival.
Morals -:Society’s rules for the individual’s survival.
DaveB.
Respectfully ….
If somebody genuinely gets PTSD due to reasons that others deem trivial, that does NOT make it less of a problem.
Dave didn’t say HE thought that, he said that’s how MAXIMA would respond. I suspect this is a case of “the views represented in this show (comic) do not neccesarily reflect the views of the writers/producers/network.”
Well don’t confuse Maxima’s opinion with mine. Personally I think if someone got PTSD from having a gun pointed at them, they’re not going to win any “survival of the fittest” awards, but obviously it can be a real issue for them. I appreciate people pointing out stuff they think I get wrong cause look, I don’t know everything, but sometimes (a lot of the time actually) the characters are going to have some fairly strong opinions and sometimes they’ll be flat wrong about stuff. Of course, you guys won’t necessarily know if it’s cause I’m a dumbass or my characters are. :)
Interestingly enough, people who undergo more life-threatening situations (cops, firefighters, soldiers, etc.) tend to develop the ability to function (i.e. not have their lower brain’s dumber portions override the higher brain’s smarter, more useful portions) during the crisis better and better… note though I do say DURING. Keep in mind that trauma, too, is very subjective. I for one do not have PTSD (thank goodness!), but in times when I was “severely shaken”, it wasn’t always “life-threatening”. When I was a kid, I was once going down a hill on a bike, and came down to the road, and saw a car coming, and tried to use my brakes, and it didn’t work… I panicked, and instead of doing the logical thing (leaning over or using my feet to stop the bike before it got into the road), I froze, and ended up going right into the front end of the car, which… wasn’t actually going that fast. After realizing I’d only gotten scrapes and bruises (damn asphalt!), I was fine… until I got home 15 minutes later. Then I shook like a leaf. I was ostensibly okay after that… except I’m extraordinarily nervous around cars now.
To Maxima, this would probably seem pretty trivial, but to me, it’s that evolutionary instinct kicking in saying, “LION BAD. AVOID LION.” Except it’s cars, not lions, because I don’t live on the Savannah.
The more I think about PTSD now, the more I wonder if it’s not just the brain’s natural instinct to rehearse its worries in order to beat them, gone awry (weirdly, this has also been proposed as an explanation for depression, which is usually triggered by “social triggers”, such as a breakup, abuse, or death of a loved one, and which pretty universally involves “rumination”). After all, isn’t one of the common symptoms that certain things cause “flashbacks” and therefore stressful reactions?
(Sorry about the unclosed bold tag)
I got it. :)
Has anyone here considered that there are no Supers of any kind in the World?
So (Obviously) the world for this Comic is a parallel Dimension. That makes the legal discussion a moot point, since none of you know how the legal system works there.
Undoubtedly, there may be differances, but (a) supers are a relatively recent thing there, and (b) this world seems basically identical to ours in every other respect.
Suggesting that the legal system is THAT different simply doesn’t fly (pun intended).
They do keep out of sight well, don’t they? What a neat superability!
Cool, I was almost forgetting about Sydney’s tube, but now I recovered interest! :3
I love the little-comic-under-the-comic xD
Thanx ,BarryA for filling in the blanks for us here. Very instructive though we would have caught on sooner or later. In a show like “Alpha” the super people don’t wear costumes and so far their differences aren’t visible. But mutations can go an any way including our golden goddess of power Maxima. (Who appears to be the exception here with that golden skin.) Still fascinating and eagerly await more revelations in this comic world. Each page is beautiful to behold. And it is nice being able to comment on it too. You are highly recommended by me.
Sorry meant to say DaveB there. Excuse me.
Evolution and mutation as handled in comic books is about as far from reality as you can get. I highly recommend reading . It’s short and readable. If you get interested, you can follow the Next Post links to read the rest of the sequence.
WOW! I messed up that tag. However, the highlighted text is a link to the intended page.
Dave, if you’re thinking that the path up to the reveal of the tube’s contents is sacrificing something, you could always draw it up and ink it, have it printed, and then sell it as a collectible #0 issue at conventions, or have it up as a bonus for donations. That way you can keep both your original vision, and the chosen path, as well as possibly make a few bucks on the side.
Panel 6: Arianna’s word balloon, the word “alredy” is spelled wrong, it should be “already” other than that, this is an awesome update, it’s moving along the story nicely…
Son of a bitch. I’d like to post at lest one comic without any spelling errors in it. That’s way I get for doing last minute edits. Thanks for the heads up I’ll fix it this evening.
DaveB get your inker to look it over and note any errors. Or find someone who can really proof read it. First rule, never proof you own stuff or put it away for awhile then do it with fresh eyes.
Psychopaths aim for the top in hierarchies of control. That is the danger in all of our societies of having them in control. No known benefits accrued by psychopaths in any society for anyone else but their own. So to me it looks like Arianna is either a full on psychopath or with enough tendencies to make her dangerous to others. Just imagine if someone in the bank had died from a heart attack. Its happened unless everyone else in the bank were also fakes. That would have made it slightly better.
However our own gov’t and military has either done things like this or planned them. No real way to weed out psychopaths other than by testing an brain scanning.
Yeah, she did look over it once, but I put the panels and lettering in before inking so we know where all the borders are.
I read an article a few months ago that said that most CEOs and generally successful people are sociopaths, or at least most highly successful people match up with many or most of the things you associate with them. Manipulative, lack of remorse and empathy, self entitlement, etc. It’s probably fair to say that Arianna has some of those attributes, but… well, I guess I don’t want to break down her motivations too much here rather than doing it organically in the comic, so I’ll leave it at that.
It’s also worth noting that most people who qualify as “sociopaths” are just manipulative, selfish jerks. Most of them aren’t extreme enough to become say, a serial killer. Just like how not every depressed person will end up suicidal, and not every autistic kid will grow up to be Rain Man; there are ranges or spectra to many psychological disorders.
Doesn’t mean they can’t be “dangerous”, but most of them are “dangerous” only in the sense of “oh man, how’d I let them talk me into this adjustable rate mortgage!?” :)
Also, Arianna actually strikes me as narcissistic – not in the “vanity” sense a lot of people mean, but in the “I’m me, and I am AWESOME. Therefore, nothing can possibly go wrong with my plans!” sense.
I guess I’ll have to wait and see how she reacts to something she can’t squeeze out of easily to judge which side she comes down on more – a pure narcissist is very likely to break down completely in those circumstances, or just enter a state of foolish, airtight denial, because their Awesomeness is to them a given, so as soon as it’s disproved, their self-image is shattered. Which is why if they can help it, they go out of their way not to let anyone disprove it, and are likely to lash out viciously if it is. (An increase over the past 30 years in narcissism has also, not surprisingly, coincided with a rise in things like road rage)
Then again, it’s not like sociopathy and narcissism are mutually exclusive…
Your are wrong on that. There is a test that if you score 20 up to 40 on the questions you are a psychopath. Some are worse than others. Some are serial killers and others are generals an presidents and CEO’s. But they have more than lack of remorse and manipulative. But there are still some skeptics who think it is all over blown. But 50% of incarcerated violent offenders are psychopaths. Do some research on the subject.
You know any of us on here would offer to proofread it for you if you’d like DaveB.
You don’t need to show the art, just a layer showing only the speech, or a note showing the sentences used.
I’ll even volunteer myself.
Yeah I post the thing lats Sunday night, it’s not live but it’s there if you know what the direct link is. Maybe I’ll throw that out on Twitter in exchange for some proofing.
Just a brief note to let you know how much I enjoy this strip. Now for the whiny stuff. In the Who’s Who, you explain Arianna is “lead council” for the team. That should be ‘counsel,’ as in Counselor. I know, nit-picky. At least I’ll spare you the 20-point explanation of why “global warming” doesn’t really exist. The comic is a hoot, and I look forward to enjoying it whenever it’s updated, so scientific accuracy and rigor really isn’t needed. Thanks again for sharing your talent with us all.
Thanks I’m glad you’re enjoying it! Yeah the council/counsel thing has been pointed out before, I need to add that to my to do list.
And again, not to derail the thread but… if you mean that “global warming” is a poor way to brand “Anthropogenic Climate Change”, then yeah, I’ll agree with you, if you mean that ACC isn’t a real thing, then unless you happen to be 99.99998% of all climate researchers, I’m not sure that you’re coming from the most informed position. I’m always fascinated why people feel the need to refute the combined work of every expert in a field, representing hundreds of millions of man hours of cross referenced, peer reviewed research, like they have some special insight that tens of thousands of scientists have missed.
I understand why certain politicians are on the denialism bandwagon, they’re getting paid off by energy interests, plain and simple. Call it a campaign contribution if you like, but it’s payola all the same. I’ve never understood why the people not getting kickbacks buy into it.
Oh, dear. We are really getting along now, Dave.
I am also on, as you put it so charmingly, “the denialism bandwagon”. I do not dispute that the climate changes, has changed and will change. Sometimes dramatically.
But, based on my own reading, I do not accept that minute variations in CO2 (as displayed on very big graphs to a sensationalist media by.outright frauds) to be a significant cause of any of this. Nor do “all the world’s ‘experts” (however one defines that term) support this claim.
Recommended reading:
‘Heaven + Earth’ by Dr Ian Plimer
‘The Chilling Star’ by H Svensmark & Nigel Calder
I fully expect to be flamed without mercy for my presumption about this subject. But wait a few years and we’ll see who is wrong or right.
Here’s the issue with denialism as I see it. Your position is “based on my own reading” their position is based on literally hundreds of millions of man hours of research. People who have spent the last 30 years of their life doing nothing but studying ice core samples, collaborated with everyone else doing similar research, the papers they published are put out in to the scientific arena to run the gauntlet of peer review where criticisms against the research needs to be accounted for the conclusions in the research is considered valid. And that’s just the guys doing research into ice cores. Having read some blogs here and there from people who aren’t even tangentially involved in climate research doesn’t hold much weight to me. And despite what you’ve read, there is consensus amongst climatologists about the causes and effects of climate change, pundits who say otherwise are ignorant or lying.
To keep this from derailing the thread entirely, I’d suggest you watch this video, it’s someone doing a very thorough point by point takedown of lecture by a guy named Monckton, who gets paid more than you or I make in a year for doing lectures about climate denialism to rooms full of people who are already on that bandwagon. It can be a little tedious here and there because the guy doing the takedown really does get into some of the science, but my point in sharing this with you is that maybe you’ll hear Monckton talk about one of those statistics that is compelling to you and then the video shows why it’s wrong. In some cases it’s bald faced deceitfulness on Monkton’s part, like showing you a graph that shows a cooling trend, but all you have to do is show more of that same graph to see that he just cropped it to show what he wanted. The tone of the video is a tad snarky, but it takes apart a ton of denialism talking points, and not by just going “nuh-uh” but by examining actual scientific literature and in many cases, showing that the papers denialists cite often say the totally opposite thing of they say they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA1LpiYk2o
I don’t expect that you’ll watch it, people can get very comfortable in their position and don’t want to be exposed to contrary ideas, but hopefully someone might enjoy it. I know I love watching cranks getting taken apart. The books you suggested seem to contain many points covered by this video, and I always err on the side of scientific consensus. Besides I have a comic to draw. :)
Let’s leave it at that to keep the comments on topic, if you really want to get into it, why don’t you jump over to the new forum, that’s partially what they’re for, to contain these longer discussions. I suspect it will be a lot of us posting videos and books that the other has no interest in, so it’s probably pointless. :)
What DaveB said on ACC or GCC (Global Climate Change.) And the insulating affects of CO2 were recognized as far back as the 1890’s!
… And ithe percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere is as nothing compared to the vast quantities of water vapour also present. Which is also a greenhouse gas.
Yes the heat trapping done by CO2 has helped to cause the increased vaporization. As predicted as far back as the 1890’s. If the methane is released in big amount it could tip us over the delicate point we are fast approaching. Then it is really going to be hard to push it back the other way. So we are going to aft to adapt to a rapidly changing world of our own making. Anthropocene period we are in. We are like a force of Nature. No other animal or plant comes close to what we can do and have done. We can also do things and ignore the feed back from it. One of our weaknesses.
Dave,
Very simply, I think you are wrong. Suppose I could bog down trying to put a few facts of my own across, but I’ve been on this merry-go-round before and it never seems to end well. Provided some reading suggestions, and I am bowing out of this discussion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
and the 119 references therein.
Oh good, I’m the first to call it. The fake bank robbers? That’s our first view of Harem. :D It’s the dialog that hints it as they’re talking to each other. Just came to me as I was reading the strip again this morning.
Interesting idea, except that Maxima already ID’d them as ‘Mr Amorphous’ and (I think) ‘Achilles’.
Plus, it’s been called at least three times before.
Sory, but you are wrong. Three or four pages back Maxima pointed out who they were and they are not harem. they are some guy named Achilles and Mr. Amorphous.
I think you also might want to read the bio on Harem. Harem has a “Clone” power, and only after a certain amount of practice could she change their appearance and their personalities. So I guess I’m just pointing out that gender-bending is not among her list of clone abilities.
Since nobody mentioned it so far, I have a question: Is Sydney already using super powers when unsuccessfully trying to get that strap from under the tire?
Because, the way she is “standing” on the side of the wheel in the lower left panel is just outright impossible, even more so because the pulling force she applies to the strap would drag her towards the the floor and there’s no way to outbalance this force by leaning to the other side – this would only work if you are standing upright. Then leaning to the other side brings gravity in to help you. But this position abnegates gravity already without any additional force, the force only makes it worse.
And why isn’t Maxima being =8-(_) about it when she sees Sydney through the window?
I mean, this would be the last straw to make clear that Sydney is a super. A much more powerful one than she might realize by herself.
Unless this was a planning mistake. It looks good on first sight but a few seconds later everybody should see that it is impossible, no idea why nobody mentioned it before.
Unless this is meant to be a funny-manga/comic characters move. I hope it’s not because that is likely to not work with a superhero setup. Because if you introduce a character who can do physical-law-denying stuff just because she’s a funny, then why would any other character need super powers to do the same?
Ah. 3 questions instead of one. Sorry but – I’m worried.
Humor generally has priority in the comic. For instance there’s no way she could have been eating something so spicy that someone in a truck on the road past the parking lot would get his eyes burned by it. Sydney especially has a strong “humor > reality” field. Think of as a super power if it helps.
Can Sydney warp reality?
ONLY when it’s funny. ;)
Sydney isn’t that heavy, and I actialy have seen a girl with similar proportons do basicly the same move in real life. I will admit I laughed my ass off when I saw it then too, and then went over and helped her out. So the last sceen wasn’t phisicaly imposible, expecialy for a spazy girl like Sydney
it’s even funnier when they hook the upper leg on something past wheel-well to pull that off in RL. maximus was quite smart with putting it under the front wheel. If she were anything like me (same height less than 110lbs) she could get just enough leverage on a regular car/suv’s back end to lift the wheel long enough to pull the tube with her foot out of the way. Or at least the average 2000 or later model. the all metal cars are a different story, and if said car was reinforced it would lead to hilarious straining too.
Humor is important in most any story. Sydney is excellent here. But don’t call her a side kick.
Increased water vapor is part of the general heating scenario.
Why doesn’t she unbuckle the strap?
“Golden Eagle has flown”
“What?”
“Nothing!”
Still making me roll on the floor laughing, when I read it again, years later.