Grrl Power #579 – Deflection even Genji would be proud of
Sydney’s question isn’t entirely out of the blue. She’s referring to this conversation, in case you forgot. Even still, it is a pretty acute non-sequitur. She was just uncomfortable with how aggressive Max was being with Valen. She’s used to women being mostly pretty passive about it. Usually it’s the subtle torso twist away or at most a “ahem” or few snaps and an “eyes forward buddy” sort of thing. Sydney’s caught a few stares herself (she doesn’t always wear baggy t-shirts). Her move is to ignore it and feel slightly uncomfortable, unless of course it’s a guy she likes, then she very slowly starts unconsciously arching her back.
Some might accuse Maxima of snapping into “gold plated bitch” mode here (one of several nicknames she’s acquired over her career of looking like a trophy model, but in Max’s opinion, saying nothing about it until later when you’re getting drinks with the girls will never change anything.
Speaking of Gandalf, why didn’t he try unmaking the ring? I know it was basically booby trapped so that powerful beings that tried to hold it or use it would be twisted by it, but you don’t have to hold the thing to drop a flame strike on it. Yes, I know the real answer; the book would have been really short if the solution was that simple, which is the same reasons the big eagles didn’t fly them over Mt. Doom in the first place. Still, realizing that Sauron, Sauruman, and Gandalf were all on the same tier fills me with questions.
Also, apropros of nothing, why on (middle) Earth did Tolkien name two of the major bad guys Sauron and Saruman? Just call the second guy Baruman or something. Change one letter. That shit’s confusing even if you’re not dyslexic. Arwen and Eowyn sound similar which isn’t great, but at least they’re spelled differently enough that people won’t get confused when one of them shows up after 300 pages. I was reading Shogun back in high school, which as you might imagine is loaded with Japanese surnames, and when one guy reappears on page 700 who we last saw on page 70, I was like, “Shit, I have no idea who this is.” That’s why I have a Who’s Who. Books should have footnotes with stuff like “This guy is the boyfriend of the catburgler.” or whatever. Kindle books could do that easy.
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There’s a typo on the first panel: Maxima says “Decolette” instead of “Decollete”
actualy, Decolettte is the name of the other succubus.
Actually, Decollete is the correct spelling of the name of the other succubus.
actually, actually is the correct spelling of actualy.
Anyone want some Combos?
Actually, Penwtwern is the one who spelled it ‘actualy.’
Actually, its spelt Penwyvern.
Axtually, it’s spelled Penwywern.
Axtually, speling thigs werong ix funm.
Well shit, I was sure it was Decolette. I must have done it Decollete because that’s closer to decolletage.
Actually, “décolleté” is the French word for “decolletage”
As a English Philologist, I was indoctrinated to worship Tolkien in the same level as Shakespeare and Chaucer.
700 years from now, Tolkien will be as hard to read as Chaucer is now.
To be fair, ANYTHING written in modern English will be.
Not necessarily – the printing press and widespread literacy have had a pretty significant sea-anchor effect on the language, so there’s more change in English between Chaucer and Shakespeare than between Shakespeare and Tolkien despite there being a larger time gap. And, of course, English didn’t even exist 350 years before Chaucer (it’s been described as having been invented so Norman soldiers could chat up Saxon barmaids…)
It’s spelt “buxom”…
:P
My generation* is probably the first to have pretty much its entire culture, or at least significant portions of it, recorded and preserved. The previous two or so were also to some degree, but mostly in sound recordings and the odd movie.
Maybe it’s not really my generation. Maybe that’s just what I’m seeing. Maybe it’s just arrogant and self-centered to see it having happened last century. But it seems to me that we’ve reached a tipping point in history, and the late 20th century just feels like when it all came to a head.
When my mother once admitted to having a crush on “Ol’ Blue Eyes” she was quite taken aback when I said, “… Frank Sinatra?” She actually meant Paul Newman, but was surprised that I knew Sinatra’s nickname. Her culture? Mostly preserved in some history texts and some movies, and otherwise passed down orally. Thus the surprise when I knew more of her culture than she’d expected.
Whereas when I start telling my kids or their friends about this old TV show we used to watch when I was their age… it usually turns out that they’ve been watching it for years on Nick at Night. Or more recently, Netflix or Hulu or Youtube or something. Reminiscing to your kids is harder for my generation because, gol durn it, they know more about the show than I do.
Two generations later and we have an unprecedented amount of resources and power in our hands — literally — for making and keeping records of not just the popular culture, but our daily lives. Insert snarky remarks here about cat videos and tweeting photos of our lunches if you will, but just the fact that we can do that demonstrates an incredible amount of power at our fingertips.
At this point, as long as we don’t end up destroying ourselves in some holocaust or other, our culture will be preserved pretty much forever. And that includes the language. We have improved the efficiency of communications, of creation and preservation and duplication of multimedia records, among other things. And our kids are consuming the culture of their parents, and their parents’ parents, and back three or four generations.
First language rules were formalized, then literacy rates climbed, especially after formal education spread further. And now we consume previous generations’ cultures directly, with sight and sound. I think each of those has helped fix the language(s) in place, each step more than the next. I suspect that language drift has slowed considerably at this point.
Will it stop completely? Eh, I doubt it. Things change. Every generation finds new modes of expression, science and technology march on, we need new words and/or old words get re-purposed. (If I say “bridge” do I mean a construction for traveling over a body of water, a cosmetic dental appliance, an electronic device for connecting two networks, or something else? Contrariwise, who actually dials a phone any more?) And that’s not counting how easily I could chat with, say, a teenager on the other side of the country. Or the globe. (Likely to happen with me because I also play multiplayer video games online. I also make the occasional Youtube video.) No, I don’t think language will stop changing, but I think it will change more slowly, and ours will be more accessible when it does.
OK well I’m gonna stop here because this is getting long, and it’s getting late. Just one caveat: This was written from the POV of somebody born in the USA, middle class, and speaking in generalities. Many of them sweeping. Also I should mention parenthetically that in many ways, my mother’s culture is actually more accessible now than it was during that conversation; I looked up “Ol’ Blue Eyes” online and found all kinds of information about Sinatra, most of which I doubt she knew. We’re also better at collecting old records and recordings; preserving, restoring, and disseminating them than we were that day. It’s not just that we record more; it’s also that we’re better at sharing it.
OK, really finished now.
P.S. In case it’s not clear, I’m agreeing with rmsgrey. I just got started and couldn’t stop.
*Born in 1957. Because some of you were going to ask.
Holy crap that looks even longer posted than while I was editing. If you manage to make it all the way through that wall of text, I’ll tip my hat to you. (Yes, the top hat in my avatar.)
I’m about your age and kids already don’t understand me when I speak. It isn’t just that their vocabulary is impoverished, but many idioms made up of simple words have not survived and I have to explain them.
The Generation Gap lives.
Actually I think the internet and memes and the speed of communication means that languages will evolve super fast now. Instead of “ʎ” taking 1,000 years to evolve into “A” (imagine that first one looks like an upside down lower case “y” in case the internet doesn’t like that character) it takes half a generation for kids to start writing emoji into hand written notes.
Imagine 2, 3, 4 whole generations from now. English will just be modern emoji based hieroglyphics.
Not if we don’t allow it: if you catch some kid speaking in pictures, slap them
Please. No.
In fact….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
You saying it’s not already? o_O
That’s why ppl like me, who’ve studied Old and Middle English, exist.
Names weren’t arbitrary to Tolkien. He was a linguist, so all his names were filled with meaning. I agree, it does make it easy to confuse the two of them, even still.
>All his names were filled with meaning.
I guess that’s why he basically copypasted dwarves names from the Dvergatal. XD
Meaning does not necessarily require originality, in fact it general means the opposite.
I approve of Sydney dragging more of Maxima’s nerdy side out. This is something we need more of.
Maybe finding the real equivalents stopped her fascination with the fantasy.
Nerd meets real Elf, Werewolf and Vampire and changes her nerd study to reality.
Being a super herself would also help.
Maxima was interested in elves until she met a few and realized they were just frat boys with pointy ears.
Ok. I have to say this about Dave’s drawing of Sydney here.
Panel 6 with Sydney folding her hands and that creepy smile with those eyes could be a TOTAL meme.
Even though Sauron, Saruman, and Galdalf were all Ainuir, they were in completely different ballparks of power levels.
C
Sauron was nigh immortal, and it took THE ENTIRE POPULATION of Humans, Elves,and Dwarves COMBINED just to lock him away the first time, and the seal was not perfect as his followers were still able to heed his will.
Saruman was stronger than Gandalf, and thought siding with Sauron was the lesser evil, and could mind-control kings from a phenomenal distance without using the power of the Rings.
Gandalf was finally able to break Saruman’s spell, only by being in close contact with the possessed human king, at point blank range, and only because he caught Saruman by surprise by having ascended from Gandalf the Gray to Gandalf the White, which Saruman had no way of knowing beforehand.
So yes, Frodo’s journey to the very volcano where the ring was forged is perfectly justified as the one and only way to “unmake” the ring, and even then, the ring FLOATED ON LAVA FOR SEVERAL MINUTES before the magic holding it together failed. No way a lightning bolt, no matter how hot, is going to top that.
a few things :
It’s debated, but Gandalf may well have been more powerful than Sauron. What is certain is that he is in fact more powerful than Saruman, but refused to be the leader of the Istari.
However the goal of the Istari isn’t to defeat Sauron, but to guide the mortal races into defeating sauron. Gandalf conceals his powers while Sauron makes full use of them, that’s why Sauron seems more powerful.
Actually, it’s described that it’s not the volcano only that could melt the ring, but also a dragon’s fire. So it might well be a matter of temperature only. But even if Gandalf might have been able to destroy the ring, that would not have been his mission.
On a third note, the ring floats on lava, because pretty much everything floats on lava. The density of lava is around 3000 kg/m^3 for a basic magma (mount doom seems to be basic) and it’s viscosity is incredibely high. So to sink in lava it requires a incredible density. A gold ring would without doubt float on lava before melting.
Somethings to note: Upon beeing chosen as the third Istari Gandalf protests because he is scared of Sauron and too weak – his words, not mine.
And dragonfire might not be a temperature-thing but because of the magic properties of dragonfire. The old dragons (most older and more powerfull still than Smaug) were Maia themselves and some might even be on par with sauron before Melkor made him his lieutenant. (Just think of old Glaurung, or Ancalagon who drove back the host of the Valar)
Oh no, I’m wrong! How could that happen?
“The Shadow of the Past”, p. 61 (Houghton Mifflin, 50th Anniversary Edition, Boston & New York, 2004)
The One Ring is NOT susceptible to dragon fire.
Sorry, but the dragons were never Maiar. Powerful, magical, but still not any kind of Ainur.
Your density of rock, at roughly 3-ish is spot on. Gold on the other hand has a specific gravity of over 19. Unless there was a crust on the surface, the gold would sink, though in a particularly viscous lava the ring might melt before being fully submerged. Though a lava hot enough to melt gold is going to be in the mid range of lava temperatures so won’t be as viscous as a cooler lava of the same composition.
Things that float on lava are things that are less dense than lava. Most metals, and a whole bunch of other materials with high density would sink in it. Aluminium would float, but even though known for being used in “lightweight” applications Titanium is dense enough to sink in lava.
The nerd question is: does this imply that Sauron’s ring was actually aluminium electroplated with gold, a very “magical” process since traditional refining methods don’t work with aluminium ores?
Of course not. The ring floating comes from the movie, and the reason it floats in the movie is because if it just sank into the lava it would be a really boring visual effect for the climax of a series of three movies.
With respect to the relative power levels of Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf, you have to take timeline into account. Sauron was described higher order being than Saruman and Gandalf. Early on Saruman was also more powerful than Gandalf, despite them both being effectively the same variety of spirit. Gandalf’s peer in power was that Balrog.
The thing is that by essentially going out and adventuring rather than sitting in a tower and researching the rings of power Gandalf managed to, in gaming terms, level up. Gandalf the White is an upgrade of the Gandalf the Gray model and the increase in power is significant. The trolls and orc may have dropped more loot, but the xp from the Balrog is what pushed Gandalf over the line to max level.
The density is often forgotten about when moves show people swan diving in with a splash.
I know of someone who tried to do similar at a steel plant. He jumped into molten steel. Or rather, he hit the surface of the molten steel and it reacted the same way as if it was cold and hard. Then he burned. Slow enough to have been painful but too fast to rescue him. At no time was he splashing about like a Terminator in the liquid.
With the added annoyance that the purity of the steel was now in question and had to be put back through the system instead of being cast.
Okay, for my two cent’s worth: IIRC, there was some crust of cooler rock on the lava in Mount Doom in the movie, which would make a little sense as some patches of lava, exposed to air, would cool down faster than the lava not exposed to air–though the crusty parts would then sink and re-melt. (Note to self: have to go back and re-watch that scene again to be sure…)
As for relative power levels:
Lesser Deity: Sauron
Legendary Hero: Saruman (roughly same power level as Merlin Ambrosius or Wayland Smith), Gandalf the White (post-promotion to head of Istari; took over Saruman’s rank and position), Queen Galadriel, Aragorn (same level of power as Arthur Pendragon or Charlemaine)
High-Level PC: Gandalf the Grey (pre-promotion), Elrond Half-Elven, King Celeborn (Lothlorien), King Thranduil (Mirkwood), Thorin Oakenshield (The Hobbit)
Mid-Level PC: Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, all four hobbits as of ROTK, the 13 dwarves (The Hobbit), Bilbo Baggins (as of the end of The Hobbit/all of LOTR), Arwen Evenstar
Low-Level PC: all four hobbits at the start of FOTR, Bilbo Baggins at the start of The Hobbit
I’m using D&D/Pathfinder terms for simplicity, just to give everyone a rough idea of how powerful each character is.
Kiti,
Any reason you didn’t mention the spider?
Shelob is also at Lesser Deity status.
In case this doesn’t nest properly: this is a reply to Kim:
Shelob is actually more of a demigod – in my opinion. She is one of the Spawn of Ungoliant.
Ungoliant was the Primordial Spider, a type of Umaiar. Umaiar are evil/Corrupted Maiar – with the exception of Melkor/Morgoth who was a Vala and possibly Ungoliant as no-one really knows where she hails from. Only that she was an ally of Melkor. Possibly before the Ainur descended to Arda.
After the whole business with Melkor and the Trees of Valinor, she eventually attacked Morgoth – but was driven off by some balrogs. She fled to Nan Dungortheb, and while there she fed upon and mated with the mortal giant spiders that already resided there. And the results of this are the Great Spiders that were called the Spawn of Ungoliant – half-Umaiar, they were immortal(but not unkillable), larger, stronger and smarter than their mortal kin. Shelob was the last known, living member of their kind.
I have to disagree somewhat with your power levels. Or at the very least with your naming of some of them. In Tolkien’s cosmology the Ainur – aka. The Holy Ones – are Eru Ilúvatar’s first and most powerful creations. They helped Eru create the world(Arda) through the Ainulindalë, the Music of the Ainur. Once Arda was created many of them descended to it to help guide and order it’s growth. Among these, 15 were stronger than all the others. 14 became known as the Valar, or Powers of Arda. The 15th, Melkor, strayed from that path and later became known as the Dark Lord Morgoth. All the other Ainur who came to Arda became known as the Maiar. Now, obviously there are somewhat differing power levels within each of these. But it feels more correct to (me) to label all the Maiar as Lesser Deities (and the Valar as Greater Deities) – not sure what to label Eru in this…Cosmic Horror?
This would make Sauron as well as the Istari – Curumo (Saruman), Olórin (Gandalf), Aiwendil (Radagast), Alatar/Morinehtar and Pallando/Rómestámo – Lesser Deities. Possibly also the Balrogs, as they were created by Morgoth from Maiar he seduced and corrupted.
It’s fairly obvious that Sauron, during his reign as the second Dark Lord, wielded more power than the other Maiar (during the first age he was just a lieutenant of Morgoth and even some Balrogs are thought to have been comparable to him). Partially by scavenging Morgoth’s leftover power base. But also because he was allowed to run free with his power, whereas the Istari were under strict instructions to never:
– dominate the free peoples of Middle-earth or
– fight Sauron’s power with power.
(This is why Saruman was denied entry into Valinor when he died, he broke those rules. So he became a naked spirit and wanders Middle-earth forever.)
This does not mean that the five Maiar who became the Istari were – at least at first, before Sauron’s corruption – weaker than him. Or that they could not have been/become as powerful. Simply that they, with the exception of Saruman, obeyed the restrictions placed upon them by Manwë and the other Valar. I’ll agree with the idea that this restriction *may* bring them down from Lesser Deity to Legendary Hero, though – now that I think about it.
Well, going by the power levels from 2nd Ed AD&D Legends and Lore, we get:
Iluvatar: Greater Deity
The other Valar: Intermediate Deities
Sauron: Lesser Deity
which would technically make all five Istari Demigods, and the balrog a Demon Lord, Arch-Devil, or on the same tier as the Oinodaemons from Monster Manual 2, depending on whether you consider it to be CE, LE, or NE respectively. (Yes, I know that MM1 lists balrogs, or “balors”, as CE Greater Demons; that was so TSR didn’t get sued by Saul Zaentz Co. for copyright infringement.)
I was listing Saruman and White Gandalf as “Legendary Heroes” because of the level of power they displayed in LOTR, not by their actual power levels, partly because I’d honestly forgotten about The Silmarillion (it’s been quite a while since I last read it…).
Now, if we correct my power levels to reflect your accurate references to the Silmarillion and other legendarium, we get:
Iluvatar: Elder God (think Nodens from HPL’s Cthulhu Mythos) or Overgod (like Ao from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting)
Ainur: Greater Deities
Valar and Melkor/Morgoth: Intermediate Deities? (I’m not sure about this, honestly…)
Sauron as of Silmarillion: Lesser Deity
Sauron as of The Hobbit (“The Necromancer”): Legendary Hero or Demigod?
Sauron as of LOTR: Demigod, because much of his power was trapped in the One Ring and because his physical body was destroyed by Elendil if memory serves correctly…
The Istari: all demigods, with power ranks as follows:
Saruman, Gandalf the White: Top rank
Gandalf the Grey: Second rank
Radagast: Second or Third rank, depending on how you see him
Morinehtar and Pallando: unknown, presumably 2nd or 3rd rank depending on whether Grey Gandalf was 2nd in command or equal to the other three in power pre-promotion.
Remember that Grey Gandalf clearly states that Saruman is the head of the Istari, and after his death and resurrection post-balrog battle, he gets a promotion to Saruman’s rank and position (hence “I am Gandalf the White” in Fangorn Forest when he meets Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn once more) along with a power-up, and Saruman the White, once he defects over to Sauron’s camp and becomes “Saruman of Many Colors” , was able to hold Grey Gandalf prisoner in Orthanc (implying that he was more powerful than GG), but White Gandalf demonstrates the same power level (“Saruman, your staff is broken!” =CRACK!=), implying that he got a power-up along with his promotion to Saruman’s position and rank.
This has been a really fun discussion, and thanks for reminding me about the creation of Middle-Earth in The Silmarillion! BTW, where in the legendarium were the other two Istari who went East mentioned by name, because I don’t recall them being mentioned in The Hobbit or LOTR?
Thing to understand here is that in Gandalf’s fight with the Balrog he was operating with both hands tied behind his back. After he died, the Valar looked at Middle Earth, concluded that things were going to shit rather quickly, and let Gandalf operate with only one hand tied behind his back.
Not quite disagreeing with you here, but Gandalf the Grey was not more powerful than Saruman. Gandalf the White, however, was boosted both by an influx of power from his Vala patron(s) and the abilities of Narya (he had Narya as “the Grey,” but was extremely careful of its use), while Saruman had spent a great deal of his resources on various projects designed to grant him more political power (as well as being drained through his use of the Palantir). Sauron was noted as one of the most powerful of the Maiar (arguably, third in power, overall), but spent his strength rebuilding his physical form several times (his fana was destroyed at least twice, before the destruction of the Ring), as well as investing a great deal of his personal power in the Ring. Even then Gandalf was afraid of Sauron, and knew he couldn’t face him directly (even after his own increase in power). But by making a lot of noise (magically & otherwise), he drew Sauron’s attention (the main reason that the Istari were directed not to use overt magic in their tasks), keeping his Eye away from his own territory.
As to the ring’s destruction, it was argued that dragon-fire might destroy the ring (dragons were a creation of Morgoth in the First Age, their fire a gift from the Fallen Vala), but no one was certain (a suicide mission, for sure, & no one wanted the ring in the claws of a dragon if it failed to destroy it); only the actual place of its creation could be absolutely certain of destroying it.
Given the temperature of lava, there is a good chance that a (regular, non-horcrux) gold ring would melt before even making contact.
Saruman used Grimma as part of the mind control process and did it over a long time, while Gandalf broke it fairly quickly. That said the way magic works in that world it’s probably easier to cut the bonds than to wrap them up.
It’s always easier to destroy than create. There’s a scene in one of the Dresden Files where the hero, Wizard Detective Harry Dresden has to destroy an intricate spell holding a particularly powerful person. He gives a speech to the effect that it would take him centuries to gain the skill to put a spell together as intricate and powerful as the biding circle holding the Archive. But to break it only took “A monkey with a staff.” Granted, the binding wasn’t set up to defend from people breaking it, but making it strong enough and intricate enough to hold who it held was pushing the knowledge and skill of several millennia old wizards to begin with.
Magic in the Dresdenverse is noted as not being easy to make permanent, since effects like fire, running water, and the dawn all have a strong destructive effect on active spells.
I’m so proud of everyone who responded to this.
Sydney would love this thread.
Are you kidding? She’d be posting comments all over the place in this thread! And handing out Geek Levels left, right, and center to everyone citing the minute details of the Dresden Files versus Tolkien’s body of work!
I’m not geek enough :(
As for the dragonfire thing, Smaug was described as the last of the greater fire drakes, making it likely that he’d have been the last dragon even hypothetically capable of melting a Ring of Power. And aside from that, I trust Gandalf’s judgement when he said, “Nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring…”
Also worth mentioning is the fact that Sauron was originally a Maia of Aule, and very skilled at crafting and creation in and of himself. It’s the reason he was attracted to Eregion and the Rings in the first place. The One might have been crafted with skill enough to make it truly invulnerable except in the place of its own creation.
But ultimately, whether or not Olorin the Maia was more powerful that Sauron in his purest essence, Gandalf, like all of the Wizards, was bound by the form he assumed when traveling over the sea. And that’s not a bug, it’s a feature, one that gets into the whole mess of not wanting to impede the self-determination of the Children of Illuvatar, etc. They could have just as easily all taken the forms of resplendently armed and armored champions of light to do single combat upon Sauron. Hell, if that’s the way they wanted to play it, I’m pretty sure Tulkas could have strolled over and grabbed Sauron by the scruff of the neck and dragged him back with a minimum of general destruction, and most of that confined to Mordor.
But the Istari were explicitly sent to offer assistance and guidance to the people of Middle Earth against Sauron, not to just take care of the problem themselves. So even if the One was hypothetically destructible by a powerful enough force, the mortal forms of the Wizards wouldn’t likely have been able to bring that force to bear.
Okay. First thing’s first. Sarumon was corrupted by the Pallantir he was using to watch Sauron’s movements. It’s VERY VERY doubtful he thought joining Sauron was a good idea of his own free will.
(That said, we still have Alatar and Pallando, both eaten by dragons.)
Second, when you’re talking about Gandalf please be more specific. Either you mean Gandalf before he died, or after he died. Gandalf the Grey was a crotchety old man with a bit of a “fire issue” (and not terribly powerful at that, nor did he have powers that were terribly useful). Gandalf the White got Sarumon’s powers, and those WERE useful. Namely, in helping create a Huge Mega Distraction for Sauron.
Seriously, the whole thing is deus ex machina the whole way down.
Go hang with Ren the Unclean (because yes, someone really did name all the “soon to be ringwraiths” and he was a barbarian).
I’m *pretty* sure we never learned what actually happened to Alator and Pallando (or Morinehtar and Rómestámo if you prefer the Quenya names. No one really knows which name goes with which Blue Wizard though). Feel free to correct and source me if I’m wrong.
Why the fudge did I write Alator? I obviously meant Alatar. I bring shame upon my family.
Tolkien himself didn’t exactly have the fate of the Blue Wizards pinned down. In earlier notes he had them falling as Saruman did, whereas in later notes they succeeded in making sure that Sauron’s forces didn’t overwhelmingly outnumber those of the West. In some writings they arrived with Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, in others they came earlier, with Glorfindel.
You could take the later writings (they arrived earlier and fulfilled their tasks) as more canonical, and I wouldn’t necessarily dispute that, but Tolkien sometimes had a concept, then altered it, and then later went back to something closer to the original vision…but then sometimes he kept the new ideas. Much of this was always a work in progress. Personally, I’d take the viewpoint that the the nature of the Blue Wizards and their eventual fate remain a mystery.
I’m fairly certain that in the notes after the third book the blue wizards are said to have “gone east” and that’s why they were not really any part of the War of the Rings. They taught the Easterlings some magic and that was about all the records of their works.
Sauron is a much better corrupter and deceiver than that. Saruman thought, of his own free will as he learned about and came to covet the power of the one ring, but nudged along by Sauron as they communicated via palatir just as Denethor was nudged into despair at the disparity in strengths (real but also imagined) between Gondor and Sauron, that he could betray Sauron and take the ring for his own.
I don’t think that Maxima is being out of line. For one if the elf was interest her ogling her is not the best way to go to get her attention and telling her that he’s interested in the middle of a mission? Not very bright. Of course this comes from a woman who has become progressively more comfortable with calling things out (to the point she got herself punched at a concert this weekend stopping a mosh pit that couldn’t hold its edges so it was annoying everyone else in the area.
I don’t thibk she was out of line at all. I think it’s just more along the lines of Sydney being uncomfortable with that confrontation and wanting to resolve it before it escalates.
Yeah… elf-dude is being neither very bright nor very decent at the moment. I think she has a right to call him out on it.
That said, she’s clearly still a bit of a man-hater.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong in theory with calling people out for stuff like that. The problem comes up when you start to think that calling *everything* out is fine. A certain amount of criticism will produce positive effects, just like salt on food. Less is unsatisfactory and more is repellent.
Maxima was correct to call out the ogling elf, but should have had to give a political response – like how culturally his ogling her chest was offensive to any professional lady. With that said though, we (the reader) have no idea how elf culture regards it, particularly since we (the reader) can tell from the view we got that he was actually ogling her pointy ears. It might still be creepy, but just like how a guy’s eyes would scan the chest of a “well endowed” female (in general), an elf could turn their head or step sideways to get a quick look at someones ears
Gandalf HAD tried to unmake the ring…
Off-Screen.
A few millenia ago.
*Handwave*
That, or he had instinctual knowledge “My magic cannot affect this”
Probably better for relations between ARC and The Council if Max wasn’t decorating the walls with a hint of elf to match the inside of the vault.
Two things: The eagles could not have carried the ring or the ring bearer to Mt Doom without the Nazgul knowing about it long in advance. Short answer is the Eye had air superiority.
second: Gandalf could not unmake the ring because only the power that made the ring could unmake it. It was Sauron’s workshop or what was left of it that Frodo found to cast the ring into.
Third of two: Sauron and Saruman are similar in pronunciation I think, Because Tolkien wanted to link the two in their desires and intentions. In the beginning of The Silmarillion Sauron isn’t that different from Saruman in LOTR.
The flying mount of the Nazguls were given to them by Sauron a long time after Elrond drowned their horses. Ergo: During this time Gandalf *had* air superiority.
They also seemed to lack the speed and agility of the eagles.
Nazgul were not the Sauron’s only power. He also had, oh I don’t know, archer orcs??? Ballistas??? Some degree of personal magical power?
Eagles are just big birds. No party of big birds could have flown over the mountains to the Orodruin unnoticed and unmolested. A big part of the later two books was about making it look to Sauron like Aragorn had the ring, drawing his attention and all of his forces, so Frodo could pass -unnoticed-. Eagles would not have been unnoticed in any scenario, and that meant death. Sure, by sacrificing most of them they might have been able to get one person to the volcano… but the Eagles themselves wouldn’t have gone for it. They only agreed to a very simple risk-free mission of retrieving the hobbits after Sauron was already dead and his forces scattered.
Eagles can fly at thousands of feet above sea level. They can cover hundreds of miles a day. They could be at Mt Doom before any troops could even start to muster.
THE TROOPS WERE ALREADY THERE
Orodruin is literally Sauron’s backyard
I thought it was Fingolfin who raised the river to wash the nazgul downstream? It’s been a while, and he was a throwaway character, so I thought it was fine that Arwen replaced him in the movies.
In any event, I agree with all the commentary that the eagles could have flown the ring to Mount Doom.
Calisto01 says:
“The eagles could not have carried the ring or the ring bearer to Mt Doom without the Nazgul knowing about it long in advance.” But we know that traveling on foot is a lot slower than traveling by eagle-back. So when you say “long in advance” you argue against your own point. Flight would have given Saron less time, not more, to know about the approach of the ring.
Liliet says:
“No party of big birds could have flown over the mountains to the Orodruin unnoticed and unmolested. A big part of the later two books was about making it look to Sauron like Aragorn had the ring, drawing his attention and all of his forces, so Frodo could pass -unnoticed-.”
There was nothing preventing them from making it look like Aragorn had the ring while the eagles flew it to Mount Doom. And the descriptions of the skies as you approach Mount Doom made it clear that spotting a few eagles even of the giant variety, high up in the sky, would have been severely difficult. Oftentimes the sun was invisible, or just a dull orange glow hidden by vast banks of smoke, steam and clouds. So the eagles could pass -unnoticed- far more easily than two Hobbits could. Really, the Hobbits managed to run afoul of almost every obstacle in their paths. Obstacles that eagles wouldn’t even have seen, must less need to concern themselves with. Huge spider in an underground tunnel? Eagles don’t care. Captured and stripped by orcs, only escaping because two factions of orcs wipe each other out to the man? Eagles might notice the fighting below, but fly on unconcerned. Gollum? Eagles don’t need to hire an untrustworthy find an alternative way past a big gate across a mountain pass. They fly over the big gate across the mountain pass. The ring itself? It seems to take some amount of time to corrupt, and eagles make the trip so much shorter that it doesn’t have much time to do so.
Ok, this poit tends to get missed a lot, so i will just put it out there. Yes, in theory the eagles could have done the flyby to Mt Doom and just dropped the ring from up high, and yes that would have made a terrible book which is why the story had them stop part way.
However, there is also the part, even as good as the eagles flying could have been, it could also be explained as simple animal instinct that meant no normal “good” animal could even get close to Mt Doom (and Sauron) with out being driven away, like a super high pitch whistle or just the energy in the air making all those normal(ish) animals stay away.
(Kinda like how most animals just avoid or run away from humans, so too could the eagles only be able to get so close before they would have freaked out)
The eagles are not simple animals who operate on “animal instinct,” they are intelligent. More than merely intelligent, their species was specifically sent by the “gods” to keep an eye on Morgoth and Sauron. And as for not being able to get close to Sauron, an eagle was in a physical fight with Morgoth, who was always more powerful by far than Sauron, so being afraid to come close to Sauron doesn’t make any sense. Besides, they were present at the battle of the Morannon, right outside Sauron’s most inner fortresses.
Mount Doom did not have a big open crater at the top, it was a regular mountain with cracks in it, to make sure the ring made it into lava you had to actually go inside.
And I bet those things the Nazgul were riding were not the only specimens of their kind at Sauron’s disposal?
Also, ultimately, the point is not “whether the eagles could have done it”, the point is “whether the eagles would have done it”. They were not part of the alliance, they were a neutral third party who did not give a fuck about Sauron. They were fine doing a quick and safe favor for Gandalf which is not the same thing as flying into enemy territory with a super dangerous magic artifact in tow. Gandalf was not in charge of the eagles, they were just a useful contact.
And again… They were sent by the “gods” specifically to keep an eye on Morgoth and Sauron. Far from not giving a fuck about Sauron, it was their gods-given job to give that fuck.
In the novels, Gandalf and Elrond Half-Elven raised the water levels, if memory serves correctly, while one of the Rivendell elves rescues Frodo and takes him back to the Last Homely House of Elrond. We don’t meet Arwen Evenstar until later on in the story. In the movies, it was again Gandalf and Elrond who raised the river and drowned the Ringwraiths’ horses, while Arwen rescues Frodo and runs him back to daddy’s place.
As for the eagles, obviously nobody thought to ask them for help in the first place, although in the second place, we don’t know how many of the fell beasts that were the Ringwraiths’ second mounts Sauron had in reserve, so he could have had a large enough flock of the things to counter the eagles’ numbers, not to mention all the Easterlings and orcs with longbows, ballistas, rock-throwing Trolls, and other nasty beasties to counter an aerial assault of Minas Morgul. Also, nothing says that the eagles would have agreed to what would have been effectively a suicide mission in the first place. Keep in mind also, as Gandalf points out, the idea of anyone even thinking of destroying the One Ring literally never occurred to Sauron until he felt it thrown back into the lava of Mount Doom; if anything, he was assuming that either Gandalf or Aragorn would keep it and try to use it against him, because that’s what he would do in their place, which is why Aragorn’s diversion tactic was so effective.
As for the ring’s corrupting power? That depends on the essential nature and desires of whoever is closest to it at the time. Frodo wanted only to destroy it, plus he was a hobbit (and hobbits are surprisingly resilient), which is why it wasn’t able to corrupt him until the very end. Smeagol, also being a hobbit, only thought of it as a useful item that granted invisibility, so it took years for it to take full effect on him, turning him into Gollum and then leaving him when it realized that Gollum only wanted it for its invisibility power. Sam, yet another hobbit, was almost entirely immune to its power because he thought of himself as just a simple gardener and greenskeeper, and had no ambition beyond working for his friend “Mr. Frodo” until old enough to retire and to marry Rosie Cotton and have a few good kids. Gandalf refused it outright because he knew too much about its effects, and Galadriel was instantly tempted (“Instead of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen…!”), but realized that the temptation was partly because she wanted to do what was best for Middle Earth and partly because of the nature of the One Ring itself, and so refused it (“I shall remain Galadriel…”). Aragorn wasn’t tempted because he knew his family history all too well, and because he knew that the One Ring could never be used for anything but evil. Boromir, on the other hand, was tempted from the moment he first sat eyes on it, assuming that it could be used as a weapon against Sauron in defending Minas Tirith, and tried to steal it from Frodo when the first chance to do so presented itself. (In the novels, Tom Bombadil saw Frodo use it and was completely unimpressed–“Your finger looks much nicer without [the One Ring], Frodo.”–but that was largely because of his unique nature, and later on, when Frodo suggests having him guard it, Gandalf says that Tom would eventually forget about the ring, leaving everyone in the same position they were now.)
This, thank you! The point is not what exact dangers there were to the eagle party, the point is that there WERE dangers, and they were dangerous, and the eagles were free agents with no incentive to risk their lives for the cause. Nobody thought to ask them because everyone assumed they’d refuse, which they probably would have. It was a suicide mission, and Frodo and Sam both surviving being rescued in the nick of time was basically a miracle… the less likely one the more people there were there.
So, how long until Max parses back that he was ogling her EARS?
Gandalf was working under the radar, keeping his power in check because the Valar had withdrawn from the world of men at the end of the Silmarillion. In short, he was black ops and destroying the one ring would have been like popping a tactical nuke in the middle of Moscow when your job is to guide a courier with a package to his destination –quietly.
It. Wasn’t. Her. Damn. EARS!!
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2683
Panel six, Valen’s pupils are focused on her ear to the point that he’s crosseyed.
After she gained his attention, up until that point he was looking down, not up
No, he was ogling the ears. Just because that wasn’t ALL he might be admiring does not make it less true. I do agree from Maximas perspective, he was just staring at her chest, and it was kinda creepy. Even when he tries to explain he was ogling her golden pointy ears…. still creepy
Again, he is shorter than her (not by much, butt enough), her ears end above his eyes
He was ogling her ears during the interrupted Council meeting, not here, here he was checking the rest of her out
Pretty sure it was that ‘he was attracted her FIRST because of her wonderful golden ears, but because of that, he started checking out her boobs. Which is when Maxima notices. But when he starts craning his neck, he’s going back to hear ears again.
Pretty sure if she did NOT have those ears, he wouldn’t have also checked out the boobs though, given how there are literal sex demons that he’s around all the time. It’s not like Maxima is singular in having boobs. But she IS unique in both being gorgeous with the boobs AND the ears. I’m guessing other elves might not have as huge…. tracts of land (sorry I need to get some nerd credit there since I can’t get any nerd credit from Tolkien stuff).
So I have to give it to Guesticus that he WAS checking out her chest when Maxima noticed, before he realized she noticed.
But when he was craning his neck it still doesn’t make sense to me that he’d, at THAT point, be trying to look down her shirt like that, given that she does NOT have her cleavage showing in that shirt.
Oh my goodness. I absolutely love the expression on Sydney’s face in panel six.
As do I so I took a stab at making an Avatar from that though it may need a little bit better cropping han what I did on the fly https://i.imgur.com/d2yrVVr.jpg
Yeah, that’s a face of pure orgasmic joy :D
I believe you mean nergasmic joy…. important difference in this case >.>
Ahh…Shogun. My battered paperback copy sits in the bathroom. It’s useful for short, or long diversions, when things are taking awhile.
Love the writing in this one.
That being said…. that panel 5??
Maxima looks like she has a freakin goatee. PLEASE Please fix!
I think he never made a secret out of his love for english and nordic mythology. ^^
There exists a credible argument that Gandalf was not, in fact, a high-level mage at all. Most of the spells we see him using are (in D&D terms) pretty low-level stuff. Spook, Light, Armor are all 1st-level stuff. On the other hand, he dual-wields weapons, with a fscking STAFF in one off-hand, and Glamdring (a sword heavy enough to earn the nicknames “Beater” and “Foe-Hammer”) single-handedly in his dominant hand.
And this is why you should use Rolemaster to model the damn thing, not D&D.
Rolemaster works far better in a magic poor environment, like LOTR is.
We are dealing with a world where Light is “WOW”. Seriously.
It’s a combination of two things: The setting is one of those where things were always better in the past. Things are in decline, and so cities are left empty and knowledge is lost. Items made a long time ago are very likely to be far more valuable than a brand new item.
It’s also one where magic isn’t really missing it’s just again mostly remnants of things long lost, or inaccessible/uncommon for reasons of plot more than logic.
The Dunedain made super cities that stand today, but with “today’s” (story time) knowledge we can only try to patch them up as they inevitably break down, we can’t make them whole or replicate them.
The weapons almost everyone uses, from the shortswords the hobbits find in the barrows to the elvish blades Gandolf and Boromir found in the troll cave, are from a vastly earlier time and can’t be remade today.
Mithril: Bilbo’s and later Frodo’s mail shirt is said to be worth a kings entire treasury the metal is so rare. So that’s just another enforced scarcity. It is also pulled from Smaug’s hoard and so that’s not an easily replicated source.
Elven stuff: Apparently magical lembas bread, magical canoes, magical ropes, and magical cloaks are all fairly common amongst the elves. They just don’t give them or sell them to smelly humans or dwarves and only make an exception for a few hairy-toed Hobbits. The orc and spider repellent light that appears to have a mind of its own and does a lot more than just “Light, WOW” is the sole example of a unique elvish magic item.
Spells: Gandolf doesn’t cast a lot of magic spells, it is true. But when he does it is fairly effective. He uses “light, WOW” to not simply illuminate but it repels an entire swarm of nazgul. Almost every example of his use of magic is exactly this: A wondrous effect which was sorely needed at the time, but almost never repeated even when it would be quite handy again later.
Knowledge: There’s just piles of herbs, roots, rocks and river mud available to do all kinds of fantastic things with. It literally liters the landscape and people just trip over them all day long. But that knowledge has been almost lost. A few wise old elves, wizards, or the very rare wise old mere human might have knowledge of one or more of these miracle remedies.
Actually, I would use the LOTR RPG or Middle-Earth Role Playing, depending on whether you’re old-school (MERP) or not, but that’s just my personal preference.
As for Gandalf being a low-level wizard, I would say that he was a high-level wizard played by an expert gamer in a low-level campaign, using low-level spells as much as possible so as not to imbalance the campaign. In The Hobbit, when he, Bilbo, and the dwarves are surrounded by the goblins and worgs, he seriously _spams_ that Pyrotechnics spell, and Pyrotechnics is Lvl2 Wiz. I couldn’t do that much casting that fast, and I’m a RDM28/WAR14 with Chainspell! (“Chainspell” is the Red Mage’s 2hr special ability, which eliminates all cooldown times between spell castings. Meaning that I can spam spells pretty fast when I have to, but not quite as fast as Gandalf, who obviously has Fast Casting, No Verbal Components or a permanent Vocalize spell, and Fire Specialization.)
I still believe in the theory that gandalf was more of a fighter with some knowledge to use magical devices and some cantrips up his sleeves. So obviously he knew right away he couldn’t destroy the ring by himself.
It’s not about if Gandalf is more powerful or not. Remember, Sauron is at full strength and Gandalf is limited while in a mortal shell. The power boost when he became the White was because a few layers of mortality were removed and he had greater access to his true Maiar strength.
Felix,
Nah, he got Sarumon’s powers, not more of his own.
Ha! I knew he was checking out her ears! Nice movie on Sydney’s part tunning interference like that. Plus its awesome seeing Max expressing some of her nerd lore.
I dont think that Sauron, Sarumon and Gandolph (even the White) are all on the same tier. Gandolph the Grey was whupped by Sarumon, Im presuming the G the White would be his equal or better given his rebirth by the powers of light. If the wizards could have just gone in a whuppon on Sauron Im sure they would have but as it was Gandolph barely defeated a Balrog whereas Saron held sway over them.
Sauron forged the ring in the fires of Mount Doom. It seems to me that the ring could only be unmade in the very flames that forged it. That was part of the magic, Sauron made the ring to greatly increase his power and preserve his existence. As long as he had the ring he was nearly unstoppable, as long as the ring existed he would always have great power in the world. The ring carried both a vast portion of his power and also his own will and intelligence making it like unto a horcrux from Harry Poter. So no Gandolph conjuring a lighting bolt would not destroy the ring. Sauron would made something that his life and power depended on so easy to break. It wasnt that lava destroyed the ring it was the fires that were used to create it were needed to destroy it.
Gandalf was the weakest of the maiar selected to go to Middle Earth, and was notably afraid of Sauron. This probably directed his almost passive resistance against Sauron.
Sauron wasn’t super powerful in and of himself (other than the typical powers of one of the maiar), but was highly skilled in many different arts. The forging of the rings and the one ring focused his power, and of course he was a master of deception and capable of fooling elves, the noblest of humans*, and even other maia.
Saruman was powerful, and his fight with Gandolf proved that he was far more powerful than Gandolf. Only after Gandalf’s fresh return from “heaven” and the breaking of the restrictions of the Valar against taking a dominant role by Saruman could Gandalf master him.
And then of course you have to mix in a healthy dose of horseshit mysticism and handwaving for any one on one match to go in any particular way.
* And here we have some more horseshit and mysticism: so many times throughout the books someone is referred to as being just the utmost ur-example of their species. Just so “more” any good quality that you might want to choose that it hurts. More manly, more just, more noble, more wise, more virile, more thoughtful, more intense, etc. Aragorn in particular is described this way so many times it’s a wonder women didn’t become spontaneously pregnant when he walked by them. Faramir got some of this, but it was always tainted with a side comment that Aragorn was even better. But if Aragorn was all that, and was still but a descendant of the equally described as being ur-beings Dunedain, then those fuckers should have taken one look at Sauron and chucked his ass in prison. But no, they even had him imprisoned once but let him talk his way out of it with the same sort of bullshit talk that Palapatain used to turn Anikin: “I have the secrets of eternal youth, I can make you mighty, something something dark side!”
DAVE! I have to comment on this:
“Books should have footnotes with stuff like “This guy is the boyfriend of the catburgler.” or whatever. Kindle books could do that easy.”
I have Kindle app on my iPhone 4 and I use it to read novels and stuff while I sit on the toilet doing the business. I can say iPhone’s screen don’t space for footnotes. But highlighted text which shows a pop-up text when I touch on it, that could work.
like in those ‘pop-up videos’ that aired on MuchMusic?
That was fun, you spent more time reading the pop-ups than watching or even listening to the videos :D
Typo in panel 3: Valen says “You are so A fantastically beautiful…” Unless Valen has a thick accent or something.
SOMEONE IS WATCHIN’ BOB’S BURGERS HELL YEAH!
Yeah, it’s not too bad, something to watch on a late Friday night when finishing eaten or doing word puzzles
Meh, I can’t watch Bob’s Burgers without hearing Archer. The voice actor doesn’t even try.
You mean Bob? Or Linda?
hey, they had a Bob’s Burgers crossover on Archer, so…
did they ever do an Archer crossover on Bob’s Burgers?
Not sure if this is brought up on the 1st page of comments, but as I recall, the way the books describe it, they are much more concerned about the place the Ring is destroyed rather than the temperature at which it has to be heated to. The Ring was forged “in the fires of Mount Doom” and so has to be returned there to be destroyed. James Owen’s books “The Chronicles of the Imaginarium Geographica” make use of a similar plot device where only the person who created a particular Magical Great Work is capable of destroying it. Less about what you do, more about who you are or where you do it. I guess we should just be glad Tolkien wasn’t working with the “who you are” formula.
What’s up with Maxima’s chin in panel 5? Is she a skrull?
Tolkein was writing with a knowledge of European naming conventions, and historical names …
Ethelbert, Ethelred, Ethelstan …
My own reading of European history (mostly, so far, reading the Cambridge Medieval History and Cambridge Modern History, for a general overview before I go for more specific study) reveals that there seemed to be, like, five names that were popular for kings. Henry. Charles. Louis. William. Phillip. It seemed that some countries’ kings used the same name for multiple kings in a row, and half the time the kings of different countries had the same name at the same time, and it frequently got quite confusing reading about international relations because I sometimes couldn’t keep track of which Henry or Charles was being discussed, especially when various nobles entered the discussion, and they were also named Henry or Charles or Louis.
Charles the Bald, William the Wise. They generally had an epithet attached.
Gandalf and Saruman were sent to the mortal realms in limited form, as observers, teachers and advisors. Sauron on the other hand had lived more or less uninhibited for millennia. He was at the very height of his power when he forged the ring – and using the knowledge of the elves to do so (who had created the most powerful artifacts in existence long ago).
Saruman may have gathered power to elevate his limited form to a somewhat impressive degree, but he was still powerless before Sauron – even in his weakened incorporeal form.
And while Gandalf got rid of his limitations (he “died” in his fight against the Balrog, returned to the undying lands and was sent back as Gandalf the White), at that point the mission was already well underway. He could have found Frodo and Sam and tried to undo the Ring, but there was no guarantee that it wouldn’t feedback into his face, even if he was powerful enough. Plus he very much stayed the teacher type, not actively using his powers, but helping others realize theirs and get stuff done.
A flame strike or lightning bolt wouldn’t have the *duration*, plus I’d think there’d be magical backlash against him trying to use magic on it.
You need to melt the ring, not just make it super-hot for a short period.
Some of the lesser rings were destroyed by dragon’s fire, but they were, like, eaten by the dragon and melted in their internal furnaces.
Mostly during election season…
poop, should’ve above….
Several great head shots on this page: Sydney in panels two, four & six, and Maxi in panels one, five, seven & eight (specially seven :D)
Actually Max, she was making herself useful.
Elf boy should take the opportunity to be anywhere else. Sag A* would probably be preferable at the moment.
I continue to enjoy the annoying little sister/annoyed older sister relationship.
Sydney showed unexpected social awareness in defusing an argument that wasn’t going anywhere good and continues to demonstrate surprising tactical skills by knowing exactly how to completely distract Maxima by engaging her in a nerd-argument about a subject Max cares about.
Really, it’s Maxima’s own fault for telling Sydney she could contribute in a fight by being distracting and drawing fire to herself.
The bonus humor for me and frustration for Max is that little sis is quite accurately calling big sis out on not being so above it all. Despite her preferred self-image, I believe Max is still deeply a nerd. Just an adult one.
The reason the ring needed to be tossed into that volcano was because it was where it was originally forged. It was a return to origin. If tossed into any other volcano it would have been fine. That is why a plasma cutter would have been pointless, it was never about the heat.
We now might need to make a nerd level assessment Test?
With random questions from all things nerdy, though perhaps there would be categories?
Like computer nerd, history nerd, Anime/Manga nerd, sci-fi/star-wars/trek nerd, etc…
With all nerds able to add questions and nerd level being something indicating your knowledge of all of those fandoms and interests?
Having a social network build around something like that might make more sense to me then things like facespace or mybook…
Then Again I’d rate high on the computer nerd scale
Too gatekeeper-y for my tastes, but I trend more geek than nerd. Enthusiasm vs organization.
So…am I the only one who doesn’t understand that character/bust/icon in Sydney’s speech bubble in panel 2? What’s that supposed to mean, anyone know?
Bob’s Burgers, in particular, Tina Belcher
In that show, Tina has a signature ot the “mmmmm” in the middle of conversations. (and much sarcasm in general, but that is besides the point). If you want a more well known example, it also similar to how Marge in the simpsons goes “mmmm” in distress all the time too if that helps place the sound effect in your head.
Books should have footnotes with stuff like “This guy is the boyfriend of the catburgler.” or whatever.
Was this a reference to Cat’s Eye? (No, not Stephen King’s Cat’s Eye.)
Him checking out her ears makes much more sense than her chest considering that he regularly(?) sees people with literally hypnotic cleavage.
Just because he mentioned her ears, he was not checking them out this time, he already did that during the Council meeting, this time he was checking the rest of her out
DaveB: Curumo (Saruman) and Olórin (Gandalf), as well as the other Istari, were forbidden to fight Sauron’s power with power. I would guess that is why Gandalf – being the good guy – didn’t unmake it. Whereas Saruman who tried to go up against Sauron with power – to take over, mind you (and broke the other decree of the Istari: never to dominate the free peoples of Middle-earth) – wanted to use it for himself. Also, Sauron had kinda been amassing power for a while and probably picked up some things from being Melkor/Morgoth’s most trusted lieutenant back in the day.
What scale is Sydney using exactly? 7 out of 10? Whats the difference between a 7 and a 7.5 on that scale and is Sydney ranking it based purely on the Gandalf knowledge? Or is she including how quickly she was able to use it in discussion?
Don’t believe it’s a scale, but more of a ranking system, sort of like the Richter scale with earthquakes
It’s character levels, like D&D or Pathfinder. In 1st, 3rd, and 5th Edition D&D, 7th level was relatively low, with no real cap on levels. In 2nd Ed AD&D, there was a level cap of 20 (30 if you used the Forgotten Realms Adventures sourcebook), making level 7 not quite mid-range power-wise. “Level 7.5” would actually be Level 7 with enough XP (eXperience Points) to get halfway to level 8.
So, in World of Warcraft parlance, if Syd’s going by D&D 3rd, 5th, or 3.5 Editions, Maxima would be 7th level geek, out of 99 maximum. If she’s using 2nd Edition, that would make Max roughly lvl 35-ish (or lvl 27 if using the expanded level tables from FRA). I assume that Syd’s either a 5th edition or Pathfinder girl, making Maxima a novice geek girl. She’s got some geek experience under her belt, but still has a long ways to go to reach the levels of geekdom I’ve seen in these comments. ^_^
And 200 Triskelion Quatloos says that Syd’s at least Level 80 Geek Girl, if not higher. And if anyone gets the reference I just made, give yourself a thousand Quatloos and +1 Geek Level! -_^
While yes Gandalf could produce a lightning bolt strong enough to destroy the ring, appart from his istari vows binding him, you have the influence of the ring to take in count. Gandalf could not use his super lightning on the ring because the ring could prevent it’s usage from ever comming to mind of anyone on the white council. A dragon the like of Smaug could produce the necessary flames but would prefer keeping the ring. The plan that came out was the plan with the more chances for the ring to return to Sauron, because the ring wanted so. They could have chosen ANY volcano but they chose Mt Doom the place where it was forged. They could have a small party of Gandalf, Aragorn and Frodo gone there on eagle back but that was to expeditive for the ring so they where on foot.
“The needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the many, or the one.”
While dragon fire is said to consume several of the seven rings, I don’t think it would be enough for One ring. But it’s true that even if it would, they didn’t had any dragon to try that.
And regarding “any volcano” … I don’t remember any other active volcano in middle earth.
Huh. So it appears that Valen was just creeping on Maxima. And while the author did have Maxima make the obvious objections, this really just confirms to me that art should be his focus, since the writing in this comic is just awful. There was someone in the prior comic’s comments who expressed incredulity that some elf and clearly a fairly high ranking person in the Council would behave so poorly. But then we’ve already had the “blue steel” poses by another such member, so I guess the bottom just hadn’t been reached yet.
Or hell, maybe he should focus on the writing, since it clearly needs just miles and miles of improvement, and few people are going to complain if the art remains the same.
A high ranking official behaving poorly towards women? You need only look at the way the UK government is crumbling now that such behaviour is being exposed or listen to a recording make by America’s president, along with the list of people claiming to have been victims, to understand that people will abuse power. Look at how many powerful people in Hollywood are now crumbling and being replaced in films before telling me that high ranking people don’t abuse their power.
If anything, I would have like to see him hauled over the coals for his leery actions. How many has he done that to and gotten away with it?
You make a strong point. Rank certainly does not equate to morality, and that has never been the case. For humans.
I guess for me it’s that elves in particular are typically depicted as being wise, lore filled beings, and not lustful, petty beings.