Grrl Power #532 – Monster hunting
You know, I think Doctor Chuckles may be misrepresenting their purpose there to Coot. Also, for as paranoid a person as Coot most likely is, his paranoidar seems to be a little on the fritz here.
I was trying to come up with the least offensive offensive term for Coot in panel 4. I didn’t want him to actually say anything gross, but I wanted to preserve the sentiment. “Ackbar types” seemed like a good compromise. Actually sounds kind of cool to me, but Coot obviously doesn’t mean it that way. He’s one of those culturally myopic types as you might guess. As I said Coot isn’t the charismatic type, but is he’s still fun to write.
Doctor Chuckles is the guy who put Sciona back together, in case you were wondering, so boy’s got some skills to say the least.
PS I know the vote incentive is stale, I’ve gotten a little behind with producing the comic, but I’ll try to get a Grrl Power related commission at A-kon next weekend. Which I’ll be at BTW. No table, just wandering around.
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Ok, maybe not the son of a Cantor after all….
He looks like his father was Jerry.
Boy folks won’t get that at all and those that do will smile like I am right now. Well played sir well played.
Coot seems dumber than in the previous page. xD
I grew up in the south and can verify that for some of these types, your expectations drop with every encounter.
Some people are like very slow strobe lights – they’re dim most of the time but sometimes they flash.
Please, don’t have Coot be a flasher!!!!
::bows in awe::
Can’t believe I missed that one…
Yup, I think those who called “sacrifice” were right.
Was thinking food… but they probably have better taste than that..
He probably tastes like a deep fried dill-pickle with cane syrup on it.
that actually doesn’t sound too bad, i think he tastes like pickled pig’s feet
Lima beans and stewed okra…
I call “Weapon of mass distraction”
Not only sacrifice, but I’m betting they needed a sacrifice with some good combat skills to infuse into their next construct.
Gonna use him as a “Tripwire” vs the Supers… try to get them to shed “Innocent blood” or something to set off the spell on floor? Or break the veil?
OR he’s the walking sandbag, lead trap, and decoy for some event.
They fire off the veil breaker circle.
Cooter sees monsters everywhere and starts a massacre… yeah probably that.
PR nightmare of the only person obtained by ARK in an incident is both killed and a normal human.
Ah, so he’s a Trollish Mine Detector, without the regeneration. You know, the guy you send into the mine field to see where the mines are and render them harmless, well harmless to everybody else.
I think he’s more of a Trolling Sydney Deflector. Can you imagine him spouting off and Sydney going off on him in the middle of a fight and thus being thoroughly distracted from all the other goings on? The rant would obviously be spectacular, but the consequences could be dire.
Entirely possible it could just permanently freeze time due to the level of obscenities being produced clearing Chernobyl levels…
100/10 would stop to watch again.
We came to stop monsters, instead we created one.
OK… so maybe inviting the epic death swearing match up onto our side wasn’t such a good idea.
Dabbler to all points, inserting program filter cute random and pretty into our earpieces programing, and we should have about 15 seconds before it crashes.
If our bodies weren’t invulnerable right now Hiro I’d think our ears should be exploding.
What?
No matter what the spell’s semantics are, I don’t see this guy being “innocent” in any sense of the word.
being affected by the veil strongly suggests he has no super or supernatural attributes. He’s probably there because, like Math (but as an anti-example), he has an absurdly effective aptitude for mayhem.
unwitting sacrifices can in some cases be as good as innocent ones, as some rituals just call for a sacrifice of a sentient being, willing or otherwise with no other special need, that is of course if he is anything but cannon fodder.
And this is why you use Virgin blood instead of Innocent blood.
Much easier to find.
Right a redneck virgin that will be the day.
Does it count as losing your virginity if it’s not with a sapient species?
Not quite what that actually means.
Virgin blood just means the person’s blood cannot have been used as a sacrifice before.
He’s making a very distasteful reference to bestiality.
Yes. I get that. As a redneck, I was tactfully ignoring it.
Actually I was referring to humans and this day no really a virgin at 50 really? Also your definition of a virgin blood sacrifice is incorrect, back in the day it did refer to those who had never had sex. So yeah if the person had sex they wouldn’t be a virgin blood sacrifice if they haven’t had sex they would be.
And that’s why they sacrificed babies, children tended to be questionable…
Maybe trigger, plausible deniability for the ringleaders, and scapegoat?
What I find more interesting is that Cthillia isn’t covered under the veil’s protection but patchwork Sciona is. The veil seems to cover quite the unique set of individuals but she’s not covered? She must be quite special indeed.
Maybe she is. But those under the veil can see each other as they are. Her looks may be too much even for those expecting the worse, eg causes Medusa like reactions in people.
At a guess, I’d say she’s a super, and therefore not covered by the Veil. Furthermore, I’d say she’s probably the individual Max mentioned on page 150. Which would mean she’s capable of fighting Max to a standstill.
the one who fought Max to a standstill was the guy talking in Arabic during the “Rouges Gallery page, roughly translated he is saying “Dead, am I?” and you can clearly see the lack of reptilian scales and a severe case of masculinity in that guys chin.
Forget the chin, we could see his chest!
Cthillia worked for Deus Ex in his flashback.
it’s not so much that she isn’t covered, in so far that all body parts that seem inhuman are already covered by her clothes, sure there are those bone plates sticking out, but those could be glued on or be some rare skin disease, in fact we don’t even get to see any of cthillia’s skin during all that so we can’t really tell if it works on her or not.
Maybe the wrappings ARE the veil?
The magical equivalent of “uhhhhh *paper bag* that’s the best I can do”
Can’t be the case actually. In panel 3 we get to see what he does. You can barely see some scales poking through as well as panel 2 he openly acknowledges her presence as a “monster.” So ether she’s classed as a super as Firehawk thinks, or she’s so out of classification that the veil doesn’t even account for her possible existence.
Yeah, I took that as the implication two pages ago. That probably means that the Council demands she remains disguised or hidden at all times to avoid attention. That’s really unfair compared to everyone else, so it makes sense she’d want to change the current situation somehow.
The poor lass just wants to find someone who wants to sit through a Star Wars marathon on Netflix with her. And that doesn’t mind the odd pointy scale digging into them. Could help take her away from the dark side that she has joined forces with.
The reason she wears the head scarf, is to avoid accidental heartattacks
Options for Coot:
1) Human sacrifice for the recent floor painting.
2) The “intelligence” inside another kill-bot.
3) To bypass any monster detector installed by ARC and co.
4) To set up ARC and co. In one of the Blade films, a familiar pretended to be a vampire so Blade would kill him and leave a body instead of turning to ash and therefore get the cops involved.
Any others?
Target practice? Meat shield? (Though that is closely related to point 4 in your list.)
Someone mentioned food, but I think they can do better than that.
Oh, a meat shield. Get Coot’s buddies to come play and hide in their numbers. Won’t have ARC responding to a human only problem, just the cops.
He will likely be a patsy used to escapegoat their problems and draw support to their cause from the more moderate supernaturals.
My impression is that they will use him to drive up hared of mundanes the same way the US media and politics uses ISIS to drive up hatred of muslims.
Fear sells news. The threat of imminent death, unless you buy our paper/watch our channel is how many sell their product. Wording helps too. That’s why we hear of IEDs instead of home made bombs.
Or fear and hatred of “militias” or other “degenerate” denizens of “flyover country.”
Like fear of “inner cities” and “urban thugs”?
Let’s just call them deplorable. Surely that will inspire them to recognize that we are right and that they are poopy heads.
Option 4 is unlikely, given that ARC is the government, and therefore can easily ‘disappear’ living people. Disappearing dead people is even easier.
The other options are not mutually exclusive. Easy to see him being put to use for option 3, then put to use for either option 1 or 2, or if the Doc is as good as I’d imagine him to be 1 then 2,
It seems like you are ignoring the obvious here. He’s a guy with a gun. Point him at your problems.
I mean, ARC – Swat has Peggy. Humans with guns can be helpful.
Humans with a gun and training/skills are helpful. This guy is the equivalent of dropping a pile of firecrackers and sneaking in the back door while everyone panics.
Oh, maybe he is useful after all.
If nothing else he can take a hostage. Like, more bodies on the field = more useful. There doesn’t need to be a special reason. Lots of the good guys aren’t bulletproof, if there’s a maniac with a shotgun running around then it’ll take a panel or two for Max to flick him into orbit. That’s useful.
Keep in mind that stereotypes are not always exclusive. Just cuz Mr Shortbus is a bigoted hick doesn’t mean he isn’t a former military or police expert. Actually, kinda ups the odds of that. Rednecks do love their guns, playing with them, buying and using lots of them, learning, training.
Old Man Henderson. GRRL Power style.
God have mercy, no!
I appreciate trying not to offend, or to keep the page to an age rating, but don’t be afraid to present a racist as racist. Their words aren’t yours. Also, thank you for trying not to offend. :)
When you have someone using racist language or behavour, to want to ensure that the reader knows the writer finds it unacceptable and not promoting it.
That is easy in a book, where you can have said person receive their comeuppance for being a vile individual further into the book.
But when you do it as an online comic, you don’t have that distant future available to the reader. You need to give payback to their unacceptable comments or behaviour almost on the same page.
So how would you portray a few people conversing each with different opinions half of which are wrong / controversial? You can’t just kill them with a random meteor shower. There is more to it than having something happen to them. The guy on this page is disliked for a few other reasons for example. Heaping a bunch of negatives together in one character even when some are inferred by cosmetics still does the job.
Trouble with making a character negative like that, is there will still be someone cheering him on though I’m sure we get Dave’s style enough to know he isn’t going to become the strip normal.
One way would could be having the bad guys unable to stand his behaviour. Even someone wanting to wipe out all the humans will have limits. An out of earshot conversation like this could show a sealed fate, even if that is not the end that will befall him:
“Can I kill that nasty little scrotum yet?”
“Wait till he has served his purpose, then you can do what you want with him.”
Another is to dial it back, as Dave has done. We know he is prejudiced without having something too offensive appear in his speech bubble. I think Dave has handled that one perfectly.
And the payoff can take years in a webcomic, while most people can finish a book in a week or less.
And that payoff is set up before the person gets their hands on the book. Anyone claims you are being, say, racist can be put down by saying “turn to page 187 of the book in your hand and you’ll see what happens to people like him.”
When trickle feeding like this, you don’t have that character’s future predetermined from the point of view of the reader. A few accusations could foul your name and even get your comic cancelled before their comeuppance. And even if you struggled through the abuse, you’d get more once that person’s fate is sealed that you only killed them off due to public pressure.
Cooter can go through any anti-monster barrier without being detected.
Let’s see:
Anomaly detector: Normal, Normal, Normal (Insane but Normal: Coot), Normal, Normal, WTF!!!! (Maxima – far beyond normal), Normal (Halo’s orbs don’t get detected by the machine), Super (Anvil), Monster of many kinds (Dabber), Mons… Norm… Never mind (Krona must stop typing while going through the machine), Normal with prosthetic (Peggy), Normal, Shape-changer, …
machine: *Eek! Spiders!* (You know who)
If Vance wasn’t totally pulling Sydney’s leg.
It could take her a long time for Sydney to return the favour.
what do these guys gain by breaking the veil. not like the veil stops them from any action. hell it keeps their actions secret from most of the beings out their. so why break it. unless the veil is stopping someone from summoning something life threatening or something along those lines i don’t get why they are doing this.
aside from the entirety of monsterkind getting into an allout war where they can position themselves to become “saviors” of all monterkind thereby becoming the head honchos once the dust settles?
Makes a great distraction with everything else that will be happening. Their own person veil spells can then let them act discreetly while everything else is in uproar.
Yup. He’s gonna die. Horrifyingly, I’m sure.
WHAT!?… you mean he’s NOT gonna die of natural causes, in bed at 90, surrounded by all his loving descendants?… oh… yeah, i forgot it’s Cooter we’re talking about… yeah, he’ll die horribly… HOW horribly is yet to be determined though…
Oh, Cooter wants to die in bed at age 90 alright, but not surrounded by his loving descendants…He’d rather it be in the bed of a 20 year old woman & shot to death by her jealous husband.
;)
Or die in action, in the bed of the 20 year old.
You mean her jealous husband-brother-father (all the same dude)
Naturally, someone’s gonna off that guy, so I’d say it’s quite likely he’ll die of a “natural” cause.
When the moonshine distillery explodes, it’s considered “natural”, or what…
Surviving the explosion would be considered ‘unnatural’ so, I guess, yea.
Since his family was murdered by monsters, I’d assume he wouldnt die surrounded by his descendants. Seems a bit late in the game to start a new family, what with his new profession and all
Dave, you shouldn´t try to be cautious. That´s a kind of censorship. You shouldn´t fall into that.
Kind regards.
Agreed. DaveB, please consider yourself now & henceforth and no matter of what anyone else ever asks of you, free to do any damned thing you want that doesn’t hurt someone unneccessarily.
Largely quoted from Spider Robinson, author & creator of the Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon genre, spoken via Lady Sally, Mike Callahan’s wife in the book Sally’s Lady. Basically, this is what thee US Constitution (& particularly the Bill of Rights) is all about…The freedom to do as you will as long as you do not deprive others of their own equal Rights.
As for anyone who doesn’t agree…Screw you & the cockroaches you rode in on..
Ooops…That book title is Callahan’s Lady, not Sally’s Lady…My bad.
Loved (and miss) the Callahan’s series, and wish one could have been done as a cross-genre with the Xanth novels by Piers Anthony. All those delectable puns… so tasty…
If you are a fan of Spider’s you should pick up “Variable Star”, he wrote the book based on a set of notes they found in Robert Heinlein’s boxes of old stuff. Really good read, Spider really does the book and RAH justice.
No, I think the way he put it exactly carries the message without stirring up too many negative real world sentiments. It’s not a constitutional choice, it’s artistic choice.
“Self-described expert” sounds like “damning with faint praise”…
Notice the “finger quotes” as well.
Are you telling me we can’t trust his expertise with nunchuks to defeat superheroes and monsters?
Cooter and Math are basically the same person.
Well, now I’m expecting Cooter to be unexpectedly competent…
and also a “Grandpa? What are you doing out of the home!?” scene.
I think at this point he’d be “unexpectedly competent” if he got into a fight and managed to not shoot himself in the head with his own gun.
There’s no such thing…
… as just human.
Well, he does cycle the action on that shotgun, even though it is already loaded.
A little hard to tell, but it looks like the ignorant asshat in the traitor’s hat isn’t showing good trigger discipline either.
Yes, now that you mention it, on closer look it does appear that his finger is on the trigger, I sure hope it is on safe.
This type of stereotype always removes the safety
I’d expect(or at least hope for) this normal human to be really dangerous actually.
And show that humans while not super-human(duh) are still capable of all sorts of things.
I’m expecting him to unload a round of buckshot at the nearest target and be shocked at the lack of results.
Yeah, I could abide by that assessment. After all, anyone who has seen Math in action would also agree. But we have yet to see Cooter doing his thing (Not that thing he did with his tongue, how he fights. Get you minds out of the gutter!), so I’m still reserving judgement on his self-professed claims.
An alternative version of math then? Non super with ability comparable to supers.
He does seem to be a wannabe hunter like from supernatural except without the survival instinct.
Maybe (and he might be playing dumb) but anyone who ejects an unspent shell can’t be all that dangerous :)
He’s like a random hunter from Supernatural, a deeply messed up one that the Winchesters rarely (if ever) deal with…
The ones the audience typically remembers as “cannon fodder.”
Granted, I’ve only seen a few episodes and read a few synopses . . . but aren’t most Hunters a messed up group in general?
Yeah, but you get ones like the Winchesters, fairly normal, but then you get ‘others’, who make Coot seem sane
the OBLIVIOUS AND DUMBNESS are strong in that redneck…
“the dumb is STRONG with this one”
“cleanup of redneck bullet sponge! Aisle 10!”
I have a word of advice for Coot on his invitation to join this group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
just noticed in the last frame, his mouth seems bigger than his braincase.
few things… one I -really- hope Dabbler finds out about the Knee-Buckler thing
….. two is it just me or are Rednecks like Unicorns? rare and majestic but there’s a high chance they’ll just off and kill you… (I’m telling you that horn is -not- decorative)
…. three I recall that Dabbler is the only one who can use her tech…. its programmed in that only she can touch it or something? I don’t recall…but…doesn’t she have a robo-arm? what if someone attached the real one? could they get into her personal weapons bunker?
Logically, I’d say no to bunker access (probably works on more sophisticated scanning) but yes on the ability to use stolen tech with that arm.
okay…so…. Dabbler Clone!… given clones are kind of a played out thing
2 Dabblers would drive Maxima totally bonkers…. worth it
Dabbler, Krona, and Sydney, all covered by a Dabbler illusion….
Anyone who has seen the movie The Cabin in the Woods knows that a alicorn (the unicorn’s horn…that’s what it’s called) is quite functional…
actually, an alicorn is a winged unicorn.
Originally, it meant a unicorn’s horn.
Isn’t that just a My Little Pony thing? The term may have that use in other places, but it is the term for the horn itself as well.
I thought the term “pegasid” covered all winged horses, regardless of horn or leg count.
Thought that was ‘pegasister’, the female version of the ‘brony’, both of whom need to be made extinct (along with Twi-hards)
one simple trick Dabs could use to help secure her hammerspace access – design it to require three hands, or two right hands, to open the physical door inside the portal. Added to other lock design features, it could really complicate things for two-handed bipeds.
Coot reminds me of a drunk and very offensive Dwarf I read about, only difference is that Coot is wielding a shotgun rather than a mallet and instead of hating everyone but himself he’s issues are more… normal.
to me i’m reminded more of a Reverse Roddy Piper from the movie “They Live”…
here he sees “Monsters” as NORMAL people, and I’ll just about bet every Moxana Point i have the The Veil works in REVERSE on him… he sees Supers as MONSTERS!!… whether that’s because of Dr. Chuckles here messing with his mind, or it’s it’s just a statistical outlier in the way magic affects someone, and he just happens to be WAAAAYYY out there on the scale, but i’ll bet that when he sees Max, or anyone else in Archon (except Sydney, because SHE isn’t genetically a “super”), that he’ll be seeing “Monsters”…
“I take off the glasses and they look like you or me, but I put them back on? Bam! Formaldehyde face!”
Well, Cooter’s issues are pretty normal…I suppose we couldn’t expect him to be more like Gabriel Van Helsing (as played by Hugh Jackman), after all.
;)
Either Coot’ll see the light and becomes one of the good guys (which I hope it doesn’t happen) or continues to be a joke bad guy that only used as a comic relief that’s easily stopped every time.
At the very least, he should survive if for no other reason than to be a long-term pain in the butt for everybody.
Sydney: “Not Uncle Southern Stereotype again!”
“Smashing”
Help. Can’t get Nigel Thornberry out of my head.
*stuffs more Nigels in there, with random Dr.Whos
Isn’t this “white spy” from “spy vs. spy”?
Yes, which means, like how Stormshadow wears white and Snakeeyes wears black in “GI Joe”, “Black Spy” is a good guy
When Cthillia says he’s a big fan of traps, I take it he doesn’t mean trapdoors and tripwires but the keyword for pornhub searches?
It’s a reference to Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars.
Admiral Ackbar, mixed lightly with White Spy and Fred from the Scooby gang
Also, Cthillia is a she.
Not confirmed, see above.
Dave called Cthillia a she in the author blurb two pages ago. So yeah, pretty confirmed that Cthillia is a she.
I am well aware of her given pronoun. That was a “trap” joke.
When someone just referenced Ackbar I doubt her “trap” comment is a sexual slur.
Seems to me that Cthilia is making fun of Cooter, who is unlikely to pick up the “Ackbar/trap” joke…
I really like the way Dr. Chuckles (the White Shadow?) is doing “air quotes” in the panel where there are so many quote marks.
Imagining him keeping his hands up and twitching his fingers at the right times.
Doctor Chuckles got his fashion sense from Spy vs Spy.
:-D
I’m glad I am not the only one who thinks that.
I wouldn’t have seen it had you not mentioned it last page but there is a definite resemblance.
He has one of those little round mirrors on a stick in his coat pocket. ‘Doc’ may be a dentist.
We haven’t seen his waist yet. If he is wearing a gun holster he might be an ode to Doc Holliday who was also a dentist and often depicted with a similar low wide brim hat.
He has a talent for causing things pain!
People will pay him to be inhumane!
Guy sure looks like plant food to me.
He he. It is always handy to have
a mobile trap detectoran eager volunteer, to take point.Meat Shields & Self-Mobilized Mine Detectors come in handy too.
Gotta love the unnecessary shotgun cocking for effect. And that DaveB has gone to the trouble of showing it is indeed an unfired shell, proving that Cooter is indeed the type of person to waste ammo for the look of the thing.
Yeah, was thinking the same thing myself. It´s a pet peeve of mine when it´s done.
To be fair, when you’re in a ‘safe’ place, with bare floors, and it’s a shotgun (which loads by the shell anyways, and doesn’t lose the ability to fire in the middle of reloading), ejecting an unspent shell for effect is literally just ‘harmless’ theatrics.
Spy vs. Spy nostalgia, anyone?
Does Doctor Chuckles’ outfit,hat and mask remind you of the white spy from Spy vs. Spy???
Is doctor chuckes’s power to only ever be seen from the front?
What does it say about me that I heard the term “Akbar type” and my mind immediately went to “alien fish monster”?
You’re not the only one. I was thinking he was making a Cthulhu reference, thus the ‘go Jesus’ response.
It says that you haven’t been to enough Ariana Grande or Death Metal Eagle concerts.
It says you’re a much better person than most people in real life.
Something tells me that “Coot” is not a fan of Star Wars.
I didn’t catch the trap reference till now. Must be having a slow day.
Honestly? I went to Matt Groening’s Jeff and Akbar first, then to where I think i was supposed to go.
This is amazingly done.
I LOVE to HATE this guy.
Doctor Chuckles? Any relation to Dr Giggles?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104139/
Coot is really strange to look at, at least for me. Perhaps DaveB is used to draw attractive women too much? Or it is just so unusual to see someone like him in this comis.
would you prefer him to have large breasts? you could always Patreon for that!
https://i.imgur.com/k0jPoN6.gif
And he ejects an unspent shotshell for his own dramatic effect…
Kill yourself once you’ve finished off all the (other) monsters? Sorry, Coot, but I think you have the wrong guys, and the wrong universe. OTHAR TRYGGVASSEN (Gentleman Adventurer!) is over in Girl Genius.
I know the first thing I do when forming a secret cabal of powerful figures is to find an obnoxious moronic hillrod to be a lackey.
Not that I’ve ever done such a thing, no matter what Cooter says.
Panel 3 confuses me. It looks like Coot sees only two people, but in the next panel, he clearly sees another.
The “what coot sees” notes are the two characters’ veiled appearance.
Vampires generally look human (until they don’t) so don’t need an illusion.
And the one the veil just shrugs at.
We don’t see how he sees the Doc.
Cthillia likes traps too? Urushibara Ruka is my favourite.
The most offensive thing Cooter has done is waste that shotgun shell.
Dave, I demand reparations (depending on how far into the future you make these). He must either pick the shell up, or be surprised when he’s one shot short.
+1 for this.
That’s his super power. He can provide infinite ammo reloads to his shotgun on demand. (Kind of like the liquid refiller guy we met at the council.)
It’s kind-of telling that you (the author) are more concerned with offending Muslims than Christians, having no problem making Cooter as offensive as you can figure out how and have him actively swayed by “go Jesus” as a firm indication that he is in the company of fellow-minded violent psychopaths (rather than unacceptably-minded violent psychopaths), but that you not only used an unusual turn of phrase for Muslim, but felt the need to discuss how you didn’t want to offend Muslims in your author’s comments.
It bugs me that Christians are acceptable targets, but it’s telling that they are, too: people feel safe painting Christians in an unflattering, even malign light, as villains and psychopaths and just plain reprehensible people who do nasty, terrible things, but get edgy even suggesting Muslims might be anything other than peaceful, sweet, kind people. Even with words in the mouths of their villains!
Is it because there’s a subconscious knowledge that the worst Christians will do is roll their eyes and complain about the portrayal, while Muslims might actually violently retaliate? It’s safe to paint Christians as bad guys who hurt people because real ones won’t, but unsafe to paint Muslims that way because real ones might act that way towards the one doing the portrayal?
Honestly, I don’t think that’s what this comic’s author is thinking. I think it’s more just “it’s PC to attack Christians, but not Muslims.” But I think part of the underlying reason it’s PC to attack Christians and not Muslims might be that.
Either that, or it’s Oikophobia.
I share your disappointment, actually. Political correctness is often very strong in webcomics – have a look at hiveworks, see how many have overtly LGQTB (or however it’s spelt) agendas. Characters dressed in Muslim style but behaving in a Western manner aren’t so common, but a recognisable type.
So far, Grlpower only has one openly gay character (Peggy) and that isn’t treated as a big thing, either in-universe or out of it, which is pretty much how things actually work, most of the time (I’m excluding Dabbler, who is a pretty extreme caricature in several ways, and non-human to boot). There’s a running joke about various characters finding her “glamour” attractive, when they wouldn’t normally do so; but that’s all it is, a running joke. The general set-up is overtly heterosexual, with various running jokes about photo exchanges, or Maxima’s “shock and awe” cleavage, or it being a possible aspect of Harem’s widely differentiated personalities, but that’s all.
So no, we could work out that Cooter is a dumb redneck, and probably a lot less smart than he thinks, without going anywhere near that.
Why are you suggesting that Dave is afraid of Greek yogurt?
“Oikophobia” = “Fear of the familiar,” which is the closest I can come to the opposite of “xenophobia” (“fear of the alien”).
And I’m less accusing DaveB of it than pointing to it as a potential root for the fact that political correctness has DaveB so worried about offending Muslims that he apologizes for having a villain we’re supposed to hate say something bad about them…but sees nothing wrong with painting such a villain as a Christian.
Imagine, if you would, if Cooter had instead been an inner-city Islamic convert who grew out his beard for religious reasons, espoused the same misogynistic vitriol (perhaps referring to himself as the reason to keep your pretty girls veiled instead of using a crude country hick-ism), and commented that the wrong person was wearing a hijab rather than questioning whether he-of-the-unpronounceable-name was of a particular religion.
Replace “monster” with “infidel” and leave the related Cooter-based dialog alone.
Instead of “Go Jesus,” our veil-wearing villain used “Alahu Ackbar?” as his “appeasement” phrase, with Muslim!Cooter replying with much the same approval as here.
If that were the character instead of what we have, how many people do you think would be horrified at the offensiveness of it, rather than nodding and saying “yeah, unfortunately, there are people like that?”
Honestly, I wouldn’t be griping overmuch about it if DaveB hadn’t gone out of his way to apologize for making such an offensive character, and stating that he did it to make as instantly-hatable a person as he could. Heck, imagine if he’d said THAT about the Muslim!Cooter I hypothesized in this post!
It could also be because Christians in the western world are not a denigrated minority who are the targets of hate and fear mongering from many sources, including the current President of the United States?
Perhaps also because this minority also regularly blows people up for the stated cause of advancing terror and promoting their religion?
Seriously!
(End of political commentary here)
(By the way, I completely agree with Sagev on all above points)
A minority? No. Targets of hate and fear-mongering? Look at the acceptability of portraying them as hateful bigots, when evidence shows that they are less likely to engage in such behavior (and to condemn it when those espousing their beliefs do) than, say, Muslims, who we’re not allowed to suggest do such things.
Look at the double-standard applied to, say, Christians who object to being forced to cater events they religiously disapprove of, and Muslims. For example, Stephen Crowder went around to Muslim-owned bakeries and asked them to cater his gay wedding, and got several refusing to do so. The media that was so eager to find a Christian refusing such a thing that they demonized a pizzeria to the point of trying to drive it out of business didn’t think it newsworthy.
The frequency with which Christians, if mentioned or depicted at all in fiction, are portrayed as monsters and villains, often SPECIFICALLY due to their Christianity, is by definition denigration and fear-mongering.
It’s just that it’s acceptable to denigrate them with hateful fear-mongering, because, I guess, they’re not a minority?
That dreaded “backlash” against “peaceful Muslims” has yet to happen, but we’re scolded frequently that we must be careful not to “encourage” it, and told that any reference to Islam or Muslims in a negative light is hateful bigotry that is encouraging the violence. But nobody seems to worry about a “backlash” against Christians for these portrayals, nor to feel that Christians would be somewhat justified in engaging in villainy in response to the vilification, denigration, and hateful fear-mongering.
Again, look at my hypothetical Muslim!Cooter, and ask yourself: Would you fear that that portrayal would lead to abuse of Muslims, or be used to recruit violent responders?
Now ask yourself the same about Christian!Cooter as presented: does that lead you to fear that it will lead to abuse of Christians, or be used to recruit violent responders?
The difference in your gut reaction to the two tells you something about your own biases. I won’t say what, because the point is that you can examine yourself for the reaction. I’m not saying what that reaction is, nor what it tells you. Just encouraging you to do the self-examination, because whatever it tells you, you’ll know yourself better.
Thanks Sagev
Well said :)
You can’t say Christians have always been accepting when history shows we have always had to fight a sub sect of them on civil rights issues.
From segregation to gay marriage.
“Targets of hate and fear-mongering?”
Not in America where 90% of the population is Christian.
You can absolutely hate- and fear-monger against a majority. And I doubt that 90% of the US population is actually Christian anymore; the secularism is very strong, and I’d bet that it’s closer to 70%. If I’m wrong, that suggests we have an even less-representative media than I thought in that regard.
Regardless, note that you have to look back to history to find Christianity engaging in anything like the kind of bad behavior we’re discussing, certainly to find its practitioners doing so without a loud rejection and condemnation of such behavior by other Christians. And the fact that you reach for that as if it’s some sort of defense of current bad behavior by other groups is, itself, pretty telling. Especially when the supposed majority who disagree with this bad behavior won’t say a word about it.
But that’s because they (rightly) fear retaliation should they speak up to condemn it. At least, that’s what I’m told. Note how nobody actually fears retaliation for badmouthing Christians. Those wicked, evil, hateful Christians will…just take it. But those peaceful members of the religion of peace we dare not badmouth as that might drive them to…violence?
If you truly believe that there is moral equivalence, then you should not be badmouthing only one faith and defending only the other.
Me, I’m just tired of the fact that I’m not going to strap bombs to myself or kids who go to my church in response to being badmouthed meaning that I and my faith are acceptable targets for parody and even slander as violent people.
If the standards were applied evenly, I could roll my eyes and let it go. It’s the fact that I’m an “acceptable target” because, supposedly, my “majority” status makes me impossible to have bigotry and hate spewed towards me that is obnoxious.
Firstly that is actually a difference between Christianity and other religions. Christians are actually instructed to do just that, as a tenant of their faith. Which has shaped western society, in modern times. Look around the world though and you can find a number of countries, with non-Abrahamic religions, which do not permit blasphemy.
For example having a tattoo of Buddha can be considered offensive enough to get you deported from a country. Whereas leaning on a statue of Buddha and taking a selfie could earn jail time Let alone the recent trend for Westerners to take naked selfies, at famous sites, and failing to avoid doing the same at religious ones. To us a mountain may be a mountain, but not to a number of cultures.
Why are you complaining that Western society follows the tenants of their faith, the same as other countries do? We all hold that disrespecting religion is bad. But Christians are meant to ‘turn the other cheek’. It is nonsensical for you to berate Western media, for acting in a Christian way! Unchristian of you, one might say.
Secondly no badmouthing of Christians has been done in this comic. When looking at the religious aspects of the above scene it is only possible to pick out two that are connected to religion.* One is a Christian being intolerant of other religions. Two is a Christian being insensitive to another religion. To an offensive degree.
Characteristics that you (as presumably a Christian, given your defense of the faith) are actually demonstrating too.
* Setting aside the fact that the character is representative of the average demographics of his setting, in terms of race and religion. As these have already been discussed in depth.
The fear he has just mongered is that of human extinction.
:-(
I likes y’all. That would be bad. And he has nuclear weapons, to deter the less-civilised responses, to a clear-and-present danger.
On the plus side though, I have finished developing something which, although aimed at other issues, may be able to, peripherally, help to mitigate some of the harm he does. In an extremely civilised way. And hopefully the rest of the world will keep to their commitments, so that we can minimise the extinction risks. Well for the two-legged animals, anyhow.
But, I better start the process of changing the world.
For the best though, as Dave does ask that we keep from getting too political, on the boards. And this would be likely to be more heated than most debates.
Don’t be too downhearted though. Whilst there is life, there is hope.
*brushes off mantelpiece, and makes room for Nobel Peace prize*
Only kidding. That ain’t happening, until I can afford a maid.
Now you’re imagining a hypothetical to get offended at?
I didn’t even read Cooter as particularly religious, just as the sort of American who is suspicious of a certain kind of Muslim militant. But if he is a Christian, well, we already knew he was from a historically Christian culture. Did you expect him to be randomly Asatru or Jewish? Why are you flipping out now? Because another character said “Jesus”?
Cooter’s clearly not even a particularly good, admirable, nor even typical Christian. Any Christianity we infer in his character is culturally informed, and given the nationality of most of the characters, we can reasonably expect that most of the heroes of the strip come from a Christian background as well!
Seriously, you are making me wonder what is even wrong with you. I would have hoped that most Christians see themselves more in characters like the ARC team (many of whom could easily be Christian in a low-key way) than in this jerkass. All you seem to be doing is identifying the rudest character in the story, and only that character, as Christian, and identifying yourself with him. Imagine how that looks to non-Christians who might read this. You’re dragging down the reputation of the Church with this kind of response.
And don’t tell me that it’s really Dave doing it. No, it’s you.
So protesting about what can be seen as slander towards Christians, makes us idiots in your eyes.
Okay then good, I’m glad we got that sorted
Putting aside the debate degenerating by this point, the broad sweep of your arguments have a good moral base and are well put.
I do have issue with a pivotal point though. Being the one you use as your justification for raising them. A person can only apologise for what they have done. UNLESS something they have not done is harmful.
Recently a Brit got convicted for failing to save his date’s life. She was drowning right in front of him, and he failed to render assistance, call for help or even to report it, until well after the event. He has done something harmful, by omission. Therefore it is appropriate to apologise.
Dave apologising, for creating a character, who is potentially offensive (by portraying a Christian in a bad light AND likewise a Southerner), is appropriate.
Omitting to create a character, who is potentially offensive to Muslims, is NOT harmful. Therefore there is no need to apologise.
The logic of your complaint is flawed. The social observation is good. Framing it in a manner which says, or implies, that the author has done something morally wrong is itself harmful.
Do bear in mind that, in due course, Dave will likely create other characters with negative aspects to them. One of whom might be of an ethnic minority or non-Christian religion. AT THAT TIME it will be appropriate to apologise for doing so.
By the way, I should have mentioned, that Dave did not apologise. I was simply illustrating the option,* to illustrate whether a point was moral or not.
* Some people choose to do so, in case they have offended a minority. Others choose not to, in case they offend someone, from a majority, for apologising about potentially offending a minority.
“Idiots” is not the word I would use.
“Knee-jerk,” or “spoiling for a fight,” yes.
“Trying very hard to be offended as if in the vain hope there is some sort of prize,” yes.
Possibly “provocateur,” and if I wanted a fight I could go on from there.
To put it as bluntly as I can: Cooter is meant to be socially maladroit, a jerk, and a bit of a fool, to a degree which makes him unusually offensive, including to people in his own country. He comes from a culture and region (Dixie) which is very, very heavily Christian; so most of the people having the opportunity to be offended by him are also Christians. That doesn’t mean his Christianity makes him offensive; his social obliviousness and propensity to wrath make him offensive. His Christianity just as unremarkable as the Christianity of every one of his neighbours who thinks he’s a ridiculous lout.
You’re not seeing it, because you’re seeing “secular society” as un-Christian. But that’s not consistent with the setting or the reality we live in.
Many Christian evangelicals in North America like to pretend that the rest of their society isn’t Christian, only them. They look at “secular” media, and see “no Christians” in it. By contrast, Jews (for example) will look at the same media and see it full of “Christians.” In each case, they think that they’re a minority and the rest of society are outsiders. But while Jews have a point in this, evangelicals who think this way are factually wrong. Statistically, most of the USA is as Christian as the evangelicals who pretend that they are a persecuted minority religion.
+1, as regards the false perceptions of being in a minority and the general implications about that as applied to this thread.
Those in the majority are the ones in a position of power. Whilst I do have the uncontrollable urge to tease Americans, from time to time, it is because they have the privileged position of being member’s of the world’s super-power. They should be able to ‘take it on the chin’, secure in that knowledge.
Which, fortunately many do, so can appreciate the mild teasing, in good humour. Or respond in kind, if they feel inclined. If I did not feel I could take that, I would not do that to others, in the first place.
Christian countries (be they officially so, or just with a majority demographic, or prevailing culture) are in a similar position of world-power.
My advice, for those who have this feeling (and it is not uncommon, plus I do empathise with it, even if trying to discourage it) is to get a thicker skin and turn the other cheek.
But I can also offer a ray of hope, for the longer term. My current project will decrease the numbers of wars, civil wars and terrorists in the world, if implemented. Which, indirectly, will help reduce these tensions. Folks tend to be less twitchy about things, when people are not getting blown up.
My next one may decrease tensions between religions, and allow them to get on with each other. So would be a direct improvement, rather than an indirect one.
We do turn the other cheek. We aren’t the ones who you’re too afraid of our retaliatory violence to mock. We’re not the ones of whom it’s said that such mockery and vitriol leads to “recruitment” for terrorists. How silly of us to object to being painted as hateful violent bigots when it’s unacceptable to paint those who kill people for being of a different faith as anything but peace-loving, misunderstood victims.
Nobody’s ever worried about the “backlash” against Christians when radical Christian terrorists blow up concerts full of little girls who’re fans of a Jewish singer.
Ahh, I follow your logic. We (those of us who like to make social commentary) are meant to modify our behaviour because of terrorists. Sorry I do not approve of them, and to allow them to influence my behaviour is not something that I will permit.
My morals remain unchanged regardless of their actions. Having failed to convince me that your arguments have merit (which I am always open to considering, you simply have not done so successfully), bringing the acts of terrorists in does not create merit where none existed.
As you have raised these sad recent events, and given the comic’s readership may well include people directly affected by them, I would like to extend my heartfelt sympathy. Likewise I empathise with people who are feeling scared or angry, even if only affected indirectly, by seeing these events.
I commuted through London Bridge, for many years, so the more recent incidents there are in very familiar settings. Plus friends and ex-colleagues, or loved ones of theirs, may well have been amongst the victims, or their families. Not likely, mind, as most would head north of the Thames, but there were victims on the bridge itself, so it is a niggling worry, of mine.
What I do though is direct my anger at those who are committing these acts and those who are fostering them (and not just on one side of the equation). I do not extend any vitriol to the greater community that they are from.
And with good reason. Because the last terrorist incident that I observed, via the media, which occurred at a location that I have been at, was a cinema, in America, that I had attended with friends. Some of whom still frequent that cinema, so their lives had actively been endangered.
Following your logic, I should have hated white Christian Americans, because that was the demographic of that attacker!
Your argument holds no water.
I for one enjoyed that…
I was waiting to see what Oikophobia might be. “Oik” in British English, is a rather dated expression referring to someone of offensively lower-class background or manners..
I thought it was fear of houses.
Why not just say “contempt for the familiar” instead of bringing “phobia” into it at all?
Because “-phobia” is the new buzzword suffix for any sort of contempt, disdain, disgust, or displeasure, despite that being inaccurage. Contempt or bigotry towards homosexuals is “homophobia.” Disgust for radical Islamic terrorism is “Islamophobia.” Etc.
It’s an attempt to use the same charged language to illustrate a point.
My reply got misdirected, somehow. Please find it here.
+1
I’m not christian or muslim, but that was rather well written to your points.
PS – I don’t think DaveB meant anything mean by it. I think he was just using the standard norms for today for what people think when they think ‘dumb redneck’ and used ‘Go Jesus?’ as a punchline.
Honestly? I went to Matt Groening’s Jeff and Akbar first, then to where I think i was supposed to go.
Just goes to show, some people are weird. And sometime donkey’s are more weird still…
Cthillia saying “Go Jesus” is a way of not sounding like an “Allahu Akbar” type. Cooter may be only culturally Christian at best, anyway. What makes you mark him as a “Christian” and not, you know, General Faulk, Daphne, Peggy, or, you know, most of the cast of the comic? It’s not like it’s set in Japan or somewhere Christians are exotic!
I don’t look at Cooter as representative of Christians. If you’re a Christian and see Cooter as specifically representative of your religion, then you have some kind of problem. Maybe you’re insecure about Christianity, maybe you have a chip on your shoulder, maybe you have some really weird ideas about who is a Christian and what Christians are, or…I don’t even know what.
I’m glad you don’t think of him that way – unfortunately, this seems to be the only way anything remotely Christian like is portrayed in the media nowadays, and I’m getting tired enough of it to start saying “that’s wrong”
And the ppl who portray them like this are really the ones with the weird ideas dude.
Do you not notice an irony here? Dr Chuckles is gambling on Coot being an average member of his society, as regards his religion. Which pays off, as it turns out to be true.
It was a moment of comedic tension, which relied on a villain being unsure if she was judging a stereotype unfairly! And only paid off because Coot turned out to have a redeeming feature, in being a Christian!
Dave is both subtly taking the piss out of political correctness and is (incidentally) affirming Christianity as being a good thing.*
The irony being that you are seeking to disassociate Christianity from being connected with disreputable types. Whereas Christ worked hard to redeem them. No matter how disreputable someone is, Jesus would be pleased to welcome them to the faith, and would seek to redeem them. Renouncing the right, of the wicked, to be Christian is actually unchristian!
* Coot was suspicious of them (OK for disreputable reasons, but he is a bad guy), but instantly accepted them as being trustworthy, once Dr Chuckles confirmed her Christianity.
Wouldn’t it be acceptable to portray a middle-eastern stereotype that wears the turban and spews hateful anti-jewish and anti-Christian rhestoric while discussing bombing them in the name of Allah, since it’s obviously “just cultural” and if any Muslims took that as representative of their specific Islamic beliefs, maybe THEY had a problem?
Try to apply your accusatory analysis equally, please. It is a critical thinking skill, and I admire anybody who exhibits it.
Ahh, an inspiring point. I had not considered that your attitudes stemmed from a mental disorder.
Just a play on words mind. :)
The thread involves very sensitive matters, and has gotten heated in places. So I would not want you to take that as an insult directed at you. The veiled disapproval of your stance is intended mind, but not any slur on your mental capacity, which would otherwise be implied.
Getting mad at the bad things going on in the world is reasonable. Lashing out at the wrong targets is not.
Dave is doing good work by poking fun at BAD Christians. Amongst our readers we have a few who have indicated that they know people who have some of the characteristics Coot is exhibiting. This association will likely stick in their minds. When they see such behaviour, in the future, they will realise that it is reflecting badly on Christianity.
In subtle ways this may lead them to either expressing disapproval, or simply avoiding joining in. Thus helping to make our society a little bit better. This is a good thing for an author to be doing!
Oh darn it, I had not even read down as far as this comment. I have absolutely no idea how my reply got attached to this one! It should have been to the one reading: