Grrl Power #529 – She is not getting her security deposit back
I don’t think immortality would make someone immune to boredom or impatience. You’s still have to sit through the same amount of intervening time, and regardless of what percentage of your lifespan that interval takes, assuming your brain functions at the same clock speed as a mortal, the fact that you might outlive your enemies doesn’t make your TV dinner defrost any faster.
Panel two is a bit odd for a few reasons. One, Dabbler is wearing a T-Shirt and not something that looks like a guy with long hair should be ripping it off of her on the cover of a lady smut novel, and two, they’re looking at math and not code. I guess this is the math the code generates? I hadn’t given it a ton of thought, but I guess Krona’s got to be pretty smart to do any of the things she does. Most coders probably trend above average intelligence, (at least in the analytical and arithmetical spectrums) but some get by repurposing and mashing other people’s code together for their own uses. Krona doesn’t have the luxury of being a script kiddie. She has to do everything from scratch. Some things don’t require any actual coding, though. Binary flags for instance are as difficult as just finding what she wants, almost like looking through a hex editor and replacing the 0 with a 1. Checkpoint code obviously requires more work.
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That Klien bottle looks like a dildo…
I’m sure Dabbler has one…. or maybe six.
Really? I assumed it was for men.
Depends on which end you use and how big it is wouldn’t it?
I’m guessing that with the tech she has available, all of Dabb’s toys are exactly the size she lusts for them to be in whatever situation she’s part of.
How big? It’s a single-sided surface, so it’s as big as the Universe!
Finite, but unbounded. So it’s not really that big. unless the math sez otherwise.
And that was my first thought as well.
Was actually thinking maybe it was Sleeping Dork’s bladder, and Kronachrome was explaining how she managed to hack it
Dabblers Smut field seems to pass through the 4th wall.
Klein dildo. Probably less klein though.
So you think it is dirty and needs a clean? Or do you think it is more Christian Dior than Calvin Klein?
“Klein” is German for “small.” It is a bit of a pun since “Klein” in Klein bottle is a name, not an adjective.
Maybe you have stumbled upon hidden meaning in Eine kleine Nachtmusik‽ Listen to learn how to fold timespace into a monosurface, for easy time travelling!
Actually, it’s the opposite of a dildo. It’s an onahole patterned after Dabbler’s youknowwhat.
Because of the muscles she referred to, I don’t actually know what. DeviantArt, don’t fail me now!
Only 6 more circles and they can summon Sydney.
[memorises circles and rituals]
Now where do I get a couple of buckets of blood? KFC do the buckets, but I think McDonalds can handle the volume.
That’s a pretty nasty description of “secret sauce”.
*nod* I memorized them too. At first glance, I thought “Is that circle related to one of the hack-visible circles hiding behind an orb?” But no, it isn’t.
“Off Topic” Topic of the Week:
When a person has multiple arms (like Dabbler or Spinnerette), are they still Right or Left handed?
Or do they have dominant hands on one side while the other hand(s) on the same side aren’t as good at writing, meaning they’d only be Upper Right Handed or Lower Left Handed?
Also, for someone like Harem, are all of them the same handedness?
Hmm.. well, it strikes me that anyone with that many arms would have to be quite coordinated just to get by day to day. It strikes me that they would honestly be more ambidextrous than anything else. Jest coordinating use of three hands on a single task seems like a pain to me, but then again I only have two arms.
In Dabbler’s case, she’s also ambisextrous…
I’m thinking multidextrous and multisextrous.
Because she seems mostly symmetric on the center plane, just like humans, I assume that her species would have similar left-right system as humans, while top or bottom would only be determined by whether the species has better top or bottom hand.
My assumption would be that she has a preference for one of the four for common single handed tasks like writing. Similarly, she might have a preference for a set of arms like the upper or lower arms when performing two handed tasks.
also remember that one of her arms is biomechanical. losing it in a fight means she had to code her arm to react to thought which is stupid hard to do. so one of her arms has tech. also its different in that dabby was born with 4 arms and that she never had to learn to use 4 arms plus hands etc her brain already had that knowledge in the bag before she developed a personality. now spinny had to wait til her brain grew accustomed to it. her arms just did whatever for a long time. in fact bottom lefty was definitely part of the sexy part of her mind.
Bottom Lefty was how she realised she was attracted to girls, or just to Mecha Maid specifically, and not afraid to grope herself giving the chance
Wrong comic, bro.
This thread started out by citing Spinarrette and it has remained in it up to and including the comment that Guesticus replied to.
It is a pertinent source to cite as Spinny is both four armed and a super hero, so, different universe or not, both characters would face similar biological problems, even if they have different solutions.
Finally it is worth pointing out that Spinnarette has actually appeared in this comic, on the page where they were discussing vigilantes. Albeit as a cameo homage, rather than a cross-over.
Only for now, if they ever have a case in Ohio though…, or Canada, Captain Alberta is a bit of a fracking idiot
@Josh:
Bad comment, bro
Well in Heather’s case her dominant hand is clearly her bottom left one. I’m going to guess it’s a completely different coordination partially based off if the person even hasequal mobility for each arm or if they slightly impair certain motions you might see different arms being dominant for different tasks along with the standard one side being dominant.
I Think been born 4-handed implies that she has 4-lobed brain,otherwise she would be awkward in her upper/lower hand coordination on the same side. that implies also that her species must have developped a completely different psyche regarding Right/Wrong than the common Human being. We always think Right(right/blessed/positive/active/etc…) versus Wrong (left/damned/negative/passive/etc…)
She has to add Up/Down to each, so 4 sided psyche, which may be why she can be so childish with Max and still overresponsible toward interferring with Humain developpment through carelessness use of her superior technology/magic…
I may be completely out there on that point, but what do you think?
So… you are suggesting that she is not binary?
binary canaries, cheeping or not cheeping, set on a wire, each one with wifi capability…
You don’t have a separate section of your brain per limb. Each side is controlling the two it was wired to. If you had six limbs per side, wouldn’t it still be two lobes and three limbs per side.
If it were four lobes, which set would get the legs?
Since Dabbletastic comes from another world, with entirely different evolution, chirality may not even be a thing with her. Although, as I understand it, it does result in efficiencies for the brain, so it might be a thing.
Law/Chaos
Good/Evil
No wonder she’s my own alignment! Chaotic Neutral for the win. Every win.
I loved playing chaotic neutral characters, my most favourite was my Kender mage. so little chance of the spells working properly that they worked best when i flubbed them.
Plus, considering all of my spells and components were borrowed materials, it was a really fun way of screwing up the D.M.
Not so sure about BeaElle being her dominant hand, just the one that seems to have the most autonomy (or simply least control)
Harem’s essentially a set of identical quintuplets. Barring anything impeding her natural development, all her bodies would have identical handedness.
I have identical twin sisters. one is mostly lefthanded, the other is entirely righty. But I think that all of Harem’s bodies, having exactly identical brain structure, would have to have the same handedness.
One of my friends is the only left handed on of a group of triplets but I’m told that that is more to do with bloodflow in the womb than anything else. Harems all pop in fully formed and if, as you suggest, it is mental, they only have one mind.
Yes, there is only one Daphne-mind, so each body (not counting customizationing) would all be the same, unless one practiced really hard to change their dominant hand, which would be even harder than a ‘normal’ person changing their DH because she would have to basically partition part of her mind to remember which hand was different, kinda like this song
Handedness is equal parts environment as genetic. A relevant trauma while in early development can easily cause someone’s handedness to alter.
A friend of mine was born left handed, but had to have it set in plaster for a few months. In that time her brain rewired her to be right handed.
Historically (and to some extent, currently) many societies forced left handed children to do things right handed, resulting in an ‘adapt or die’ effect.
Harem was old enough, when she created her first duplicate, that her handedness will have been long established. So every subsequent copy would be the same. Barring an incident, such as you describe, affecting one of them. Even then, her brain would still be wired up for the handedness o the majority of her bodies. Therefore, upon recovering from her injury, I think she would revert to her initial handedness.
Plus nowadays she has the Super Doc to treat her fast So that situation should not occur, with any injury that the doc can heal.
Another eample is my use of a computer mouse. In most things, such as writing, I am left handed. Hoever my father is right handed and so his mous was at his right hand. When I first started learning to use a computer and a mouse, it wa son his computer and so I learned to use the mouse with my right hand.
I confuse people. For several years I had the mouse on my work computer to the left of the keyboard, for left-hand use. And people look at how muscular my arms are (not very), and think my left arm is dominant.
But I’m predominantly right-handed.
The thing is, I’m mildly ambidextrous. So for a lot of uses, my dominant arm isn’t HUGELY dominant, and farming some of those uses off on the other arm isn’t a big handicap – in fact it’s a net gain to leave my dominant arm and hand free in case there’s a need for some fine manipulation. Pick up a half-dozen plastic grocery bags in my left hand? Sure, no problem, then with the right hand I can add two more to it and still be able to get my keys out without setting anything down.
And I was mousing left-handed at work and right-handed at home to reduce the severity of carpal-tunnel-syndrome systems.
Everyone is ambidextrous to some extent. It’s usually only when the task requires fine motor control that they prefer using one hand over the other.
Not exclusively. The most visual example is actually from history. English archers trained in the longbow from a very young age. The use of which would build up much more musculature in one arm (the one drawing the string), than the other.
Because the off hand can just be locked into a straight position. Whilst it does require effort, much of the force is acting on compressing bone and cartilage, so the muscles are not being developed so much.
The difference was marked enough that you could recognise an archer just by seeing the over-developed muscles on one arm, even underneath clothing.
Likewise may people will tend to pick things up in the primary hand, and over the years this means it is getting exercised more. Resulting in it becoming the stronger arm. Meaning that if (for example) carrying a heavy shopping bag it will be favoured. Further compounding the difference, through giving it more exercise.
Same can be said for masturbation.
Ah, but society would enforce the use of the same arm for all archers, so this is misleading. Ever seen anyone use a rifle left-handed? Did they get discharge in their face? First thing I was taught when handling a rifle was I had to learn to use it right-handed. Not any easy thing.
Remember, in most societies, past and present, right is right and left is wrong.
That’s why historically, people passed sword-arm to sword-arm, which evolved into horses and horse-drawn vehicles passing on the left. Of course, with the French and American revolutions, passing on the right became a popular way to show defiance of imperial rule, and as people were unlikely to be carrying swords, it wasn’t so much of an issue.
Yes, my mother had that inflicted on her. In fact, she had to hide her left handedness from my fathers parents until after she got married, they were super religious and thought it was satanic. It finally came out when they noticed my younger brother was left handed.
Wow, now that is an extreme world-view. Believing that of someone with Vehemence’s power, I could understand. Or Succubus, for that matter, because she looks the part. But just being born left-handed? Sheesh!
Just remember: the word ‘sinister’ literally refers to left-handedness, or at least being on the left hand side
Totally.
Once again religion takes a perfectly natural state and promotes it as a corruption just because it’s in a minority!
Think of all the words that are literal meanings of ‘right’ and all their opposite with literal meanings of ‘left’. Most of those of those ‘left’ words are associated with wrongness or something bad/evil.
The most obvious one, in terms of talking about left and right handedness has to be dexterous and ambidextrous. Both are words derived from right handedness. In French, “droit” means right but “a droit” means ahead. “Gauche” means left, but if something is gauche it’s not very good. “Rect” is German for right. “Links” german for left.
Languages are literally littered with examples of “right” being right and “left” being wrong.
*picks up a “sinister” and drops it in the bin*
*looks around for any more litter*
*dusts paws off*
In my headcannon, Dab’s handedness changes depending on what she is doing and how she feels about it. So if she is super into the project she might be multi-dextrous and everything feels right. If she is so over this, then she is all sinister lefts and thumbs and why am I even doing this, pfft.
Not that it applies IRL, but 3 edition D&D had the “ambidextrous” feat for normal two armed humanoids and the “multidextrous” features for beings for more than two arms. Without multidextrous, a four or six armed being still had one primary hand and three or five “off” hands. As a DM building monstrous NPCs, awakened four armed gorillions with mulitidexterous and an assortment weapons grade cutlery was a lot of fun.
I can’t speak for all but looking at the Archive Dabbler has a preference for Right hands and upper hands but it’s far from 100% (knowing how flexible the rest of Dabbler’s skills/abilities are I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s multidextrous).
In this comic as well as the one where she was drawing out Syd’s power tree she writes with her upper right hand. She also used that for her dominant hand when using her RailGun and when gesturing casually. When in her two arm disguise and had a two handed task she used her upper arms.
But in the Science Corner she was writing and gesturing with her upper left hand and she used her bottom left to fire and reload the bondage gun.
You have two hands and two feet. Do you have a dominant foot as well as a dominant hand?
If yes, then we can assume that each pair of arms likely has a dominant side (either independently or, more likely due to simple familiarity and use of objects such as scissors, a matched dominance).
If no, then we can assume that only one hand out of all of them is considered dominant, but with the possibility of a hierarchy of dominance for the remaining hands.
Yes, foot-dominance is a thing. It just is not as noticeable in our day-to-day lives. Unless, for instance, you are a footballer or dancer.
It also applies to hearing and sight as well. This is important for activities like archery, as being able to use both a dominant hand and eye can give an advantage. An individual who is better with their right eye, but their left hand, for example, would have to decided which favoured their chosen activity the most.
Typically though a right-handed person will favour their right foot, eye and ear as well. Giving a reasonable indicator that, at its root, it is due to having a dominant left or right hemisphere of the brain. The term used to describe left/right body dominance is ‘laterality’.
I favour:
Right eye
Chew on left side of mouth
Right hand (except when eating because I grew up sitting next to a lefties at the dinner table)
Left foot/leg
Yeah. This is called cross-eye dominance. The U.S. military has run into this problem with some of their AH-64 Apache pilots. The helmets for the IHADSS are designed so the helmet-mounted display is placed over the right eye. This can cause fatigue and headaches if the pilot has left-eye dominance. Fortunately there are ways to retrain eye dominance issues.
Your last point is the crux here. I don’t think we can even use the same terminology for Dabbler or Spinnerette as we do to us. I’ll accept the term ‘laterality’ with respect to their brain’s preferred usage location (at least for Spinerette, which I believe we can all agree has an essentially human brain; subject to change for Dabbler should she prove to have a truly alien brain structure) but when discussing a person with multiple pairs of arms, perhaps ‘radiality’ might be a better term. I used —
and will continue to use below — simple ‘dominance’ because it allows for a wider range of possibilities.
As Flashback81 and MSpears pointed out, even our basic bilateral bodies have a great potential for mixed dominance across our various body parts. It would be folly to assume someone with four or more arms wouldn’t be so easily described as right- or left-handed.
And as for Harem, who has been so far neglected in this end of the discussion, I’m going to say she/they all have the same handedness, given that it’s been explicitly stated that while she has multiple bodies, she has only a single brain [pg #308, or archives/1688].
The human brain was not designed for coordinating the movement of four arms. Dabbler was born this way, so her brain is wired for it. And even so, she still seems to have a preference for the upper right arm. This means her brain is probably still bilateral, like a human brain, and therefore her right side is dominant (note that “dominance” and “ambidextrous” are not mutually exclusive.)
The important difference between her and Spinnerette is that all four of Dabbler’s arms have primary signal co-ordination with the brain, whereas Spinny’s lower four arms only have secondary access to the motor action signals. This means that unless Spinny consciously directs them otherwise, they will slightly mimic the motions of her upper arms. (Or, especially in the case of bottom lefty, does its own thing.)
There is something we should factor in, when observing such things with Dabbler. Which is that she is required to live much of her time disguised as a human. Part of which process requires her to be cautious about only using the visible hands.
As she may need to do that habitually, to avoid slip ups, this could affect her behaviour even when not disguised.
Not that it impacts on your point much, as it would make no difference as regards the left-right issues, only the upper-lower ones.
I do find Omar a bit interesting in all of this. What’s his background besides being an engineer? Even being a particularly great engineer still only has it’s own reach when you’re dealing with equipment based on magic or seemingly reality defying criteria.
This is only his second showing, so maybe we will find out more when and as needed
I suspect he’s gonna turn out to be a top notch engineer who is able to bend his brain around magic, super powers, and integrating them with traditional physics. A philosopher of the medieval definition, but with modern understanding and tech.
That’s slightly defeated in his own statement. An engineer of that caliber would have known that the important pieces were missing less than just not seeing them.
Well, with magic not being his thing, he is reliant on seeing ‘does anything connect to this bit?’ He can see that it does not, but does not know if it needs to have something there. Look at Gwen’s puppet Maxima for a practical example. There were no heart, lungs, brain or other organs. They were not needed, for an illusion.
Likewise, even closer to this construct, there is Icon. he is just a hollow shell of armour. So very clearly cannot have any of those features. Which is why Omar has to couch his statement cautiously. Magic is variable enough that not being able to see something does not necessarily mean that it is not present, it may just be in some other form.
Plus the vast explosion will have resulted in most of it being missing. So it would be redundant to state that. He can only comment on the bits that remain.
At times when debugging difficult, multidisciplinary problems, I’ve had to carefully say my part as “If this 2orks like X over in that part over there (designed/maintained by someone else) then the problem may be Y over yonder.”
just to avoid ruffling feathers or later eating my own words as I fix the problem in my domain.
Perhaps that’s is exactly what he is supposed to do? There is this quotation about some people not being able to tell the difference between magic and technology. If he does not know how it works it probably is magic.
That quotation is about the level of technology as much as it is about the person looking. The most common version is known as Clarke’s Third Law – “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” – but there are many other formulations with varying emphasis. It’s not that some people can’t tell the difference in general, more that for any given person there is a level of technology so advanced that it might as well be magic for all they can understand it.
Personally, I prefer “any sufficiently unfamiliar technology is indistinguishable from magic“, as it focuses on the relationship between the beholder and the specific technology without getting into the questionable definition of ‘advanced’. It’s not necessarily a given that someone from a ‘high-tech’ culture would recognise a well-developed ‘low-tech’ system as technology, especially if it’s something that their culture either never needed or has long bypassed.
If Dabbler has a Klein bottle sex toy, would she share it with anyone?
Thus ‘vagoos of holding’ are explained…
Heh.
Given that the outside is also the inside, she’s technically sharing it with everyone 24/7.
Yep, that sounds like Dabbler all right.
Ever seen the meme of two middle-eastern teens doing a double-take leer at a woman in a burka? Covered up is surprisingly sexy. (Plus, I’m pretty sure any tee Dabbler puts on looks like a wet t-shirt contest in progress)
I’ve been in a Mid East store and listened to the proprietor flirting with a woman in a burka. Couldn’t understand a word of it, but it was obviously flirting.
Might only be able to see the gal’s eyes, but dammmnnn are they gonna have nice eyes. mean, seriously, Arabic women are like the masters of eye makeup.
It is not how Risque your clothing is. But how much self-confidence you have while wearing it. Naked Skin in public is considered “Sexier” because there is still a subtle taboo about showng skin.
It is a very common misconception males (and thus females) learn during growing up.
I tried googling it, but just got endless results with hate and racism. Only one of which was funny with it.
Had a lunch date once with a Moslem family – father, wife, two daughters. Mother and oldest daughter had hair covered completely, arms to the wrists, etc, but their faces were uncovered. In just that short time, I came to appreciate how that level of covering can desexualize my attitude towards the mother (I didn’t talk to the daughters). For some situations, the mostly-covered approach can really help a guy relate with women on equal terms. (I ain’t saying it should be, just that from a guy’s perspective, it was a real help to “keeping my eyes up here”).
So Dabbler, bt applying this mystical force coefficient, with the Pythagorean theorem, and divide by Einstien’s theory of relativity, then wrap it into Paulson’s temporal force principal, That’s how I’m able to alter reality.
Along with Heisendinger’s thought experiment involving the undead werecat….
Dabbler:
“…but I don’t see how this coefficient compensates on-the-fly for the quantity of ambient midichlorians, which may-or-may-not be present in sufficient amounts to otherwise boost the output to dangerously high levels if they’re not accounted for. Where’s the ‘bleed-off’-proviso in this energy-stream merger, to prevent catastrophic cascade-failure…?”
Krona: “…”
Dabbler: “…Krona? Where’s the ‘fail-safe’…?”
Krona: “I’M THINKING, OK!!!?!”
Oooh. Ominous and evil!
Giant Evil Squirrel Overlord?
No no no… squirrels are too tame to be overlords. More likely a giant spider or scorpion. Who else would she work with besides nightmare fuel?
Yah sure? I mean you have heard of squirrel girl, right?
She was never a leader, though. At least, not among humans.
She led the Great Lakes Avengers
Wait, really? I thought that was Mr. Immortal and she just did her own side adventures.
Grace, from EGS, though is a leader, in an alternate Earth. So she shows that squirrels have what it takes, even if Grace herself is one of the good ones.
No no no… squirrels are too tame to be overlords.
Are you sure about that?
That’s great. Still too skittish though. :P
Oh so innocent. Seeing that and thinking ‘this is an exorcism’. Now look with the Veil lifted!
Hmmm. As you clearly did not fall in the category of ‘Oh so innocent.’, having linked something with suitable captions, I had intended to edit that to ‘For those who think it looks innocent’. But a kitty in distress distracted me.
Or maybe the squirrel was sent by God.
Heh.
That link is broken, but here is a clean version.
There are some good squirrels, of course. Which should be protected, from the evil ones!
Yea, I was afraid it was going to do that to me, despite stripping out a suspicious bit that did nothing. The sandbox version did not seem happy, but you never can test YouTube videos there anyhow.
Here is the raw link instead:
youtube.com/watch?v=K16fG1sDagU
Any idea why it insists on sticking grrlpower.com on the front of a perfectly valid link? It’s not the first time it’s done that to me.
No, I have not come across that before, other than when someone was pointing at a grrlpower.com page, but used an invalid page number. Then it is reasonable to respond with a ‘page not found’ within the comic’s format.
Why it would do that for a YouTube link, I have no idea. More normally it would come up with a browser-type error message, in such situations.
His Exalted Radiance would not be summoned by something as vile and base as a circle of blood! Peanut butter or Nutella, however?
Oddly enough, WALNUT butter seems to be his favorite.
Chaos Demon! Im calling it now. Its a chaos demon. Call the Space Marines!
Nah. No eightpointed stars. Some of what we can see looks more like alchemical symbols to me.
Seems a bit short on the hebrew symbolism for FMA.
And sydney finally have some rest.
“A great burning will herald my return.” Think Dabbler’s past is about to come back to haunt her . . .
You should have that checked, I know a doctor …
IIRC it was “A Great Burning shall herald my Coming”. Which prompted all of our (And Dabbler’s) jokes about needing a doctor.
In panel one it looks like the orbs shut down when Sydney is asleep/unconscious. I sense a super hero weakness! If you knock Sydney out she won’t be able to use the orbs. Besides being out cold that is.
Still, nice safety feature for sleep walkers.
That has been long established
Sydney’s asleep,maybe back in her own place??? What will Dabbler learn of Krona?
What will the others discover?
Looking at the background it lacks any of the posters or plushy toys of Sydney’s apartment. It has the look of one of the Archon bedrooms.
Possibly they are all at the Archon East Coast HQ, if they did not feel they had time to waste. However the whole feel (such as the Arc-Sparq guy, Omar, doing his thing) makes me lean slightly towards them having returned to the Central HQ.
If so I would guess that Sydney would have been given a lift, by the osprey, Maxima or Hiro. I doubt that she would have been safe flying, in her exhausted state. If having the longer journey, in the osprey, Sydney probably had a nap on route.
I bet her WoW guild mates are wondering whether they are going to see her again. Either because she is totally anonymous there, so has just dropped off their radar, or they are familiar with her,and have been following the news, but have no idea if she will get to go on another raid with them, because of her new duties.
If Dabbler is ethical she will avoid examining Krona’s code in such a way as to uncover her personal details. She has been granted permission to make sure the programs are safe, but not to delve into Krona’s personal history.
However they are working together, on that task, and are bound to chat. So, from a socialising point of view, she could pick up a lot. If Krona chooses to share it. She may not.
Nuts.
The construct would have been bound to have carried a supply, for its squirrel overlord. But we saw that it was only able to grab its glowing power source, so will have left that edible treasure behind!
There goes Gwen’s side hair popping in and out of existence again.
She also changed her lipstick, but great to see her again, even though she is almost unrecognizable (if it wasn’t for her hair-tissues)
She is a mage, she is allowed to do stuff like that!
*checks to make sure tail is still attached*
*can only see part, so chases after it harder*
*round and round and round*
I am still rather hoping we might get into the “bloodbag” victims they managed to rescue. How many were down there and for how long? Besides the drown what other kind of “extra-humans” were held down there? Feel like it would be neat to address and a view of how Sciona does things.
Above a certain level, code is indistinguishable from math. Not all math has an equivalent in code, but all code has a representation in abstract math. And formulas? Psha. Of course that’s “code”. It’s just much easier to understand in “math” form than in “code” form, not least because the language of math shows much less variation than the languages of code.
Javascript coding is basically writing math equations in your computer and for someone who failed math in secundary school, it was a pain learning it.
That may just have been JavaScript though, it’s a horrible language. ;) But functional languages are closer to math, and JS is at least semi-functional, so I get you. The real fun comes when you’re programming 3D graphics, robot movements, simulations etc. Basically anything more interesting than a web page is applied math. And then there’s the special math to model complex GUIs, parallelism, or even languages themselves so that we may add more math to our systems. It makes them more provably correct, but if you’re bad at math, yeah… it’s not fun.
Code can be (a lot like) math, depending on the programming language being used. Java or C? Not too math-like. Functional languages like Scheme, OCaml, or Haskell? Very math-like.
Other languages (prolog for example) use mathematical models. While prolog’s syntax isn’t standard math, it is written in formal mathematical logic, just stated differently.
Given that functional languages allow for far more terse and powerful statements (Go to the Rosetta Code website and lookup quicksort in Java and OCaml for an example, or the famous Haskell quicksort in one line of code), I’m guessing that’s what Krona would be using to hack the universe. Of course, with terse powerful statements, small mistakes tend to have far-reaching unintended results…
OK, since it is so short, for programming people who haven’t used a functional language, here is Quicksort written in Haskell:
qsort [] = []
qsort (x:xs) = qsort [y | y <- xs, y < x] ++ [x] ++ qsort [y | y = x]
That, while beautiful, is a very inefficient implementation, largely because of the way lists are implemented. Which is a nice demonstration that math is necessary to write good code, but it is not all you need. But on the other hand even a language like Java can be modeled mathematically as a system of transformations. Therefore it might be possible that Krona is just showing Dabbler her code in the most ubiquitous language there is (math), instead of whatever it’s actually written in (VBS?).
Indeed… My assumption was that the mathematical formulas are the code.
I’m disagreeing here. While a lot of code looks like math, I have yet to see a language implemented using integral signs, sigma/pi/union/intersection notation, or diagrams of klein bottles, all of which are somewhat difficult to type on your typical keyboard. And while I know that Krona doesn’t use a typical keyboard, her interface doesn’t look like it has “klein bottle” on it either.
What I think is going on here is algorithm analysis instead, possibly with a bunch of physics and metaphysics thrown in. Since that checkpoint hack of hers could create a time loop and potentially infinite recursion, the math for that analysis would be horrifically awful even if you knew exactly how that particular spell’s time travel rules work. Since Krona apparently DOESN’T, they’ll have to play with 50 possible different models, and avoid empiricism as much as possible because the experiments are potentially very dangerous. Also, potential paradoxes would make the math 98.284 times worse. MAYBE one could map time-travel topology to a klein bottle, or at least consider the possibility. And also, because they now have to figure out how the Harem-brain interacts with it, quantum mechanics gets involved, and with it imaginary probabilities.
…. all in all, it’s pretty complex.
Have a look at Agda, or even Haskell with Unicode libraries (and the UnicodeSytax extension if you want). You don’t get 2D notation that way, but you do get union, sigma, integral signs etc. By 2D notation I mean indices, complex potentiating, division notated in several lines etc. are still missing. But that’s a limitation we impose on ourselves by using text-based editors. Other systems have tried an even more “natural” notation, but it’s not easy to market such interfaces. For some reason programmers find it easier to adapt to tools designed for 50y old keyboards instead of adapting tools to their minds.
But who’s to say the magical community is the same? Maybe they have a different developing culture? After all they do seem to love specialized glowing graphical interfaces judging from what we’ve seen. That’s not exactly what muggle systems are going for.
You’re confusing the map and the territory. Those symbols you list are not math. They are simply the symbols which we use to describe the thing that *is* math. I’m not saying your interpretation is wrong (I assume that they’re looking at the known physics and math and comparing it to the code written to make sure that the implementation is correct) but saying that code isn’t math ignores what math is.
Oh, it’s definitely math. (Or, as you say, math symbols. Not a hair I’m splitting.) But while you can say all code is math, that doesn’t mean all math is code. This does not look like code.
More specifically, it’s clearly not organized in a manner that’s procedural, functional, structural, imperative, or object-oriented. MAYBE what we’re seeing here could be a declarative language if we really stretch our imaginations, but Krona’s approach to reality hacking has more of an object-oriented feel to it.
…. also, is NO ONE going to complain about that “complex” pun?
As a quadraped, that passed over my head. Is it the name of a programming language?
“What shall we call it?”
“Dunno, any acronym would need to be about 20 characters long to cover it. It is complex.”
“OK ‘Complex’ it is. Next item on the agenda…”
You gave me a great idea. I’m going to develop a programming language based on quaternion calculus. And I’m going to call it “Complex” to make mathematicians cringe. To honor you, the comment symbol will be the dog emoji. Also every program will have to start with bacon.
LOL!
*wags tail in a complex pattern*
Above a certain level, code is indistinguishable from math.
And if the programming language in use is APL, then all code is indistinguishable from math.
(Also, if it’s APL, they are making a mistake – simply by trying to read the code. You don’t read APL. You read the specifications and recode the entire system from scratch. A 24*80 screen is sufficient for a complete payroll system including reporting state income tax in multiple states.)
Yet, conveniently, it can be imported unchanged, into a burger-flipping robot and have it turn out perfect bacon double cheeseburgers, every time.
Yup, Alchemical Programming Language is both compact and versatile.
I’m not too familiar with the more arcane variants, but aren’t you confusing something? I mean I know APL with the Advanced Cheeseburger Modeling Extension is almost as powerful as Burger Oriented Object Manipulation Formulas, but as far as I heard bacon has always been its weakness. Has that changed? Please tell me! My manager says Boomf can get messy, so we’re still using that Pacon In ZZa Ause abomination from Germany here and it’s driving me crazy. We constantly have to redefine what a sandwich is, and we’re not even making sandwiches!
It uses Kevin Bacon Associative Alchemy, to find the optimum solution, utilised by the most competent person to have previously undertaken a particular task.
It is not what you know, it is who you know.
unfortunately, that particular tool is limited to exponents no larger than 6.
According to some *everything* is math. See the mindscrew known as the mathematical universe.
Would be fun if Sydney showed up to where they are studying that golem she point blank asks “where’s it’s eye”.
Also did she mention to anyone yet that it talked to her?
This is why I said they need to strap a body camera on Sydney when she’s on a mission.
Klein Bottle… how to mathematically tell someone to fuck themselves…
Dabbler wants to see this applied not just in theory?
Hey, good point.
Klein bottle, ‘filled’ with whipped cream
Also that last part sounded like DEUS.
No, that seems to be a distinctive voice ‘tone’, and one that Deus never used
The ‘tone’ was used by Chorius, the miscellaneous that was used to exemplarification in 454. so I would say its him.
Or any number of ‘monsters’, including a human with a sore throat or a nasal infection
true, but i’m going to go with Occam’s razor and say it the same person who used the tone before.
I mean, if we’re going that route, that Demon guy Dabbler stole a bunch of stuff from, the guy who spawn all the urologist jokes, used a similar font.
Yes, but if he’s already here, then why isn’t he knocking on Dabbles’ door?
And who (or what) is Sci-fright summoning?
We have seen one potential candidate. Someone who would be preceded by a great burning. Say just outside of New York.
Sciona must be fed up with Heatwave, for interfering in the ritual.
Sciona should really invest in a mop. I’m sure she is capable of being smart enough to realize a map would make for a neater brush than the splatter painting she is currently doing. I dunno about anyone else, but I would feel much safer summoning demons or raising the dead or any of the other dangerous things one would do with a circle like this if the lines were precise instead of splattery! I’ve heard so much about how the littlest mistake can, at best, make magic circles not work and at worst spell out the doom of anyone nearby….
Perhaps blood magic ritual circles have to be applied by hand? It lends it that personal touch, the one that says “I care about the blood of innocents I’m using to paint with.”
First, I hope Dabs and Krona aren’t designing a high-tech vibrator (mainly because Krona looks underage).
Second, Sciona is apparently a Dragon (check TV tropes). To whom? Someone from the council? Or a new player? Place your bets, ppl.
“Second, Sciona is apparently a Dragon (check TV tropes).”
Yeah, I’m not falling for that one again.
To save people time, let me say that “The Dragon” in TV Tropes terms refers to a second-in-command among villains. Like Darth Vader.
That casts Gilda in a whole new light…
Please, Dabbler could turn anything into some form of sextoy. Up to and including most types of household furnishings and at least seventeen different varieties of common vegetation.
And stairs, don’t forget the stairs.
Or at least the banister.
STUPID SPATIAL CONFIGURATION!!!!
On the time passing thing for immortals.
It’s sort of a case of perspective.
If you’re a 4 year old then 1 year is a quarter of your lifetime and can seem like an age and a whole week is a long time to wait for anything. If you’re 40 it’s only 2.5% and even the months can feel like they’re passing by pretty quick.
The first rule of summoning in most magic systems is, stay out of the summoning circle.
Or maybe it’s “Do not call up that which you cannot put down again.”
I’m pretty sure the first rule is “don’t summon this thing.” The rest of them are for when you decide to ignore rule #1.
Now we know what it takes for Dabbler to forget to lust up everyone in sight. Giver her a science problem to work on. Decollette said succubi weren’t one-note and it appears that despite her heritage on one side, she favors being a scientist and adventurer (it is why she didn’t finish succubus charm school, after all). Her daddy’s influence, maybe?
seconded… or third…ed… whatever.
The vamp talking to Sciona should be more careful in what he says. That big blood spot outside the circle on the floor behind him? I Think that was from the last person to mouth off to Sciona.
I am ever so pleased Sydney is finally getting her long-overdue rest. She has not just been burning the candle at both ends, a flamethrower was being used to incinerate all the candles and the cake!
and the table too.
And her tongue.
And her eyeball.
“I don’t think immortality would make someone immune to boredom or impatience. You’s still have to sit through the same amount of intervening time, and regardless of what percentage of your lifespan that interval takes, assuming your brain functions at the same clock speed as a mortal, the fact that you might outlive your enemies doesn’t make your TV dinner defrost any faster.”
If you are Immortal, you had plenty of time to learn patience.
Indeed learning patience is propably one of the most important “maintain your sanity” skills any immortal has to develop. It is somewhere around a Coast Guard being able to swim.
I surprises me that no one has seen that Krona has done the same thing that Jack L. Chalker wrote about in his Well of Souls series. That is, someone had figured out the math of the universe and was able to manipulate it. Turns out that a substantial portion of our universe is being generated by a big computer and it’s a stone bitch to reboot that thing.
It’s dead easy to shut down and restart the Well World computer if you have the proper body… the problem is that it doesn’t have proper error trapping and correction functions which why people keep crashing the system. The big headache is saving as many people as possible to put into the new universe before shutting it down (causing everything outside of Well World or in transit in the Well gates to go poof – as in not existing at all and never had outside of the memories of those saved). Once restarted the system runs the program from beginning, fixing any damage as comes across it until the whole system is back to full function.
“Most coders probably trend above average intelligence”
I feel happy . :D
If I was Krona, I would be pretty scared if I was under watch, but Dabbler’s home-like(?) presence makes me feel safer. Dabbler would make a great big sister.
A sexy, perverted succubus big sister. She would be the sole reason I would start to like incest porn.
Dabbler would intimidate me more than anyone else at ARCHON. Partly for looking so alien — demonic, even — and partly because I know her intentions toward me would not be purely innocent.
Hooray! Gwen’s back! I hope she’s wearing those boots again.
Are they summoning a chaos demon? BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!
There’s only one blood god though. Hail Armok!
Looks like everyones fears about the jackbooted fascists arresting poor Krona were totally justified, she looks like she’s suffering terribly :P
They made her take off her goggles!
Dramatic gasp! That is horrible!
Abuse of power!!
A velvet lined prison is no less a prison. An abuse of power is no less an abuse just because the person having their rights removed is cooperative with her captors.
It still rankles, plot and story telling-wise, that a person with a unique power can be ‘assisted’ in understanding her power by some random collection of demons, supers, and skilled humans. It removed Krona’s uniqueness and places her in the “Kid who needs to be trained up by those who know her power set better than she does” category. Which is utter bullshit, from a story perspective.
Halo had the same thing done to her, but at least in her case it was less “Let us tell you how to use those floating orbs that we don’t understand at all” and more “Let us provide you with the background training you’ll need to not be dangerous to yourself and others using those floating orbs that we don’t understand at all.”
But look at your own reply. You are supporting the stance that ‘the purpose of super powers is to make me more powerful!’* Whereas, in this story, the focus is on making society a better place. The first part of which is to allow supers to behave as they like. The second part being that, if they do things which endanger the rest of society, then action gets taken to correct that.
So this is not placing society above the individual. They both get to benefit!
By the way, there is a reason why Krona is being treated like a kid, who needs training. It is because that is what her behaviour has shown is necessary!
In the middle of a battle she decided to pull a prank on one of the vampire delegates, by messing with her underwear. She then interferes with Sydney’s bladder function, without her permission! Then finally does something that could a) trap everyone in a time loop or b) shatter the universe.
As proven by the fact that Krona’s coding did not have the results she expected.
Plus please note that Krona was not ‘co-operating with captors’. She realised that their logic held true!
Further Krona is more powerful than Maxima. If she wanted to, Krona could easily defeat her. The reason why Krona is co-operating is because she choose to, not because she has to. Maxima may have been blunt, but she persuaded Krona.
Unlike you Krona does not want to place ‘accidentally shattering the universe’ on her list of ‘things to do today”!
And even if it turns out that Krona is unable to fiddle with Maxima’s settings,** why should everybody else in the universe be put at risk, just so that one person can get their kicks by fixing the problem themselves? That is super-selfish behaviour, not super-heroic!
Mind you, if your only concern is for the story, how about the fact that doing this actually brings Krona into the team, so that we actually get to see more of her? Rather than her just returning to her box, and disappearing from Sydney’s life?
The fact that they are both being treated similarly should be a way for them to connect. Presently, in terms of roles and duties, Krona actually has more in common with Maxima, than Sydney.
* We get drawn into these stories, in good part, by ‘what if I had these powers?’
** Krona could adjust Sydney’s organ settings, without knowing much about her. Provided Maxima has a bladder, brain, heart and other organs, then Krona is familiar with those and can defeat her.
Albeit that, if it is not convenient, Dave can rationalise that Maxima’s force field makes all these different enough that Krona’s power cannot directly affect her. But only up until Krona learns enough about the force field to take that into account.
IF “Maxima threatens me”
THEN Set $Maxima_Forcefield=0 AND $Maxima_speed=0 AND $Maxima_armor=0
Get $hydrogen_atom_in_Maximas_lungs AND GOSUB “Split hydrogen atom”
Set $Krona_position = $Safehouse
Where have I ever said anything that could be possibly misconstrued as having that meaning?
She realized this with a gun to her head. Even assuming that she agreed with the premise Maxima was making, she is still cooperating with her captors.
Unlike you and Maxima, I don’t need to invent things to be afraid of. Please prove that Krona can destroy the universe. I’ll wait right here.
And I have already detailed in other posts how “destroying the universe” is of no real difference from “killing me” to any given person. Dead is dead. Maxima, Sydney, and other supers can level cities if they choose to do so. Jiggawatt can destroy the planet by creating anti-matter, and almost did so accidentally. This is a proven case of someone with a superpower being able to destroy, not the universe, but the planet. Not a bogey man, completely invented ability which was trumped up in order to attempt to justify detaining and interrogating Krona. And yet are we given a montage of Jiggawatt sitting in physics classes so that she will better understand what her powers are capable of? No, we are not.
Krona is being singled out for this kind of treatment based on invented capabilities and hypocritical criteria.
As I stated in my footnote, you are getting too dawn into the power potential of the character. To the exclusion of other matters. This is understandable mind, as super powers is why we come to read super stories, after all. We like to imagine ourselves with those powers. Yet finding that using them can be considered morally wrong gets in the way of that vision.
So it is not me quoting something you have said, it is me rendering judgement on the way you are approaching this. Hopefully insightfully, but, as I am attributing something about yourself, I am perfectly happy to be corrected on the matter.
I say this though because I see myself doing the same, at times. So it is not intended maliciously.
I shall do you the courtesy of not taking that literally. However please do the same in realising that a hand on the shoulder does not equate to ‘a gun to the head’. And if you want to play the what if games, about the power that Maxima has in her hand, and how she may choose to use it, then please consider the following:
If Krona has no concerns about risking herself and the rest of the universe, she would have left her checkpoint in place. She did not, because she was just as worried as Maxima. This is cannon. However we are running with your headcanon now, and assuming that Krona objects to Pixel and Maxima’s accusations, because they are ill founded.
So, in this hypothetical alternative story line that would be necessary for your headcanon to work, Krona has the use of her checkpoint power.
All Krona needs to do is wait until she is not being observed for a moment. Then, just like with Sydney’s bladder, mess with Maxima’s heart. Stop it from pumping her blood around for half an hour.
Maxima is then dead, and nobody can oppose Krona. Of course lots of things might prevent this. Which would, running with your proposal, result in the gun to Krona’s head being fired. Oh, reset has occurred. Krona gets to modify her plan and try again. And again and again.
Oh, what if her power does not work right? Well that is a surprise, given that we know she is incompetent and the checkpoint does not work the way it is meant to. However you are contending that Krona does have proper control over her power.
So you can’t have it both ways. Either Maxima and Pixel are right and Krona’s abilities are dangerously unpredictable, or she can use them safely. If she can use them safely then she can defeat Maxima!
Plus Krona will have had an opportunity to set up a fresh checkpoint at any time, if she wants to. So no rewriting of canon required. Her power has not been taken away. Once she has a checkpoint in place nothing that Maxima does can defeat her. But Krona can keep trying, and learning more and more about Maxima, until she knows how to defeat her!
Given that the character in question has actually accepted the truth of Maxima’s statement in canon, it really does not make sense you arguing that she, Maxima and Pixel are all wrong! If Krona had said ‘No, you are wrong’, then your contention would have evidence. Rather she agreed with Maxima’s accusations and proposed solution!
Krona has stated that Maxima’s statement makes sense. As you have said yourself, Krona is the one who knows the most about how her power works. Therefore this is proof! The person with the power has agreed that she could shatter the universe!
No need to carry on waiting. Krona did not trap us in an eternal time loop, so you o not need to keep reliving the debate over and over, but never progressing it.
I certainly do not want to sit through every boring detail of every soldier’s life in Archon. Just like with the press-conference, and interviewing all Vehemence’s victims, Dave shows us enough to get a feel for what is happening, but we know a lot more has happened, as well.
If you want to claim that Jiggawatt was exempted from any repercussions, you will need to provide some canon evidence to support your claim.
Failing that I am taking it that Jiggawatt’s incident will be treated the same as any other such. She was debriefed, there may be a formal inquiry, and she will most definitely get extensive training, to ensure that she does not repeat the mistake, or something similar to it!
Pretty much what is happening with Krona.
However we are following Sydney’s day, not Jiggawatt’s, which is why we are seeing Krona’s example of this procedure, rather than Jigawatt’s.
And people have the right to listen to the fully legalized authorities
Kronachrome may very well be the only one with her powerset, but that doesn’t mean she knows how to use it, as Yorp pointed out, and if you are so willing to allow someone with the potentially to end the universe in so casually a manner while ‘playing with the code’, then get the fuck away from me!!
I’ve pointed out at length exactly how stupid you are in previous posts. Your hysteria here only reinforces that fact.
Invent all the fears you like, and be as afraid of them as you like. It’s your special kind of idiot who constantly falls for the invented fears corrupt politicians try to, and in your case succeed in, plant in the minds of the ignorant public in order to advance their agendas. But here you take it a step further. You have invented the fear yourself, and convinced yourself without any evidence that it is real. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Guesticus has accepted the conclusions that the characters in the story have presented. Including, most significantly, Krona herself.
The fact that you are not happy with the canon does not impact on the merits of his (and my) arguments.
I know that both of you rub each other up the wrong way, but it makes for a more peaceable debate if we resist the urge to stoop to character assassination. Whilst I can understand the need to respond, in kind, it would be far better to restrict ourselves to the merits of the argument.
And, as we need to do, from time to time, when we have exhausted the various counter-arguments, for a particular, topic, it may be better just to falling back to ‘agreeing to disagree’. Instead of giving in to our frustrations in not being able to get our respective points of view accepted.
Krona has already stated it’s basically highly advanced code and mathematics.
So having Dabbler is probably a relief for her, Dabbler being a galactic math genius and all.
Hmm. If you divide by neutral infinity, it becomes a much more efficient formula. Just sayin’.
I assume that Krona had to build an interface for the binary flags though. I don’t think that Real World(TM) would have prebuilt interfaces for stuff like that, since it would be assumed that nobody would be able to access it anyway.
Dabbler’s shirt isn’t a T-shirt. More like Ŧ-shirt.
Dabbles is actually naked, she is always naked
Wayyyy back in the initial encounter (roll for random demons) Sydney saw Dabbler with her true-sight orb. This dispelled the human-form illusion, but Dabbler was still wearing clothes in her native form.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/621
There is a chance that this was to keep Dave’s PG rating for his work and may have been different if he was publishing it using his idea of an ‘Arc after Dark’ version of the comic.
We are still waiting for that, Dave, BTW.
In recent years I’ve become quite partial to aposh cuppa. Where might one find the tea bar from which this shirt hails?
… I’m willing to bet that Sciona is trying to whistle up a major daemon to bind into a UltraHusk and will get “He who Dabbler Dissed”( who will be not amendable to being bound )…
https://i.imgur.com/coiiWQA.png
…& just how effective a condom would a Klein Bottle be for Hyper-dimensional sex, anyway…?
It looks like Krona is using her hacking interface to display the math equations so she might just be giving a demonstration. Because even with really advanced programming you don’t get into equations like that.
Though I guess if you’re using the programming to change the universe you’d need to know the math of the universe.
You don’t know how advanced universe code is though. Maybe it displays physical stuff, like the size and mass of the Earth, in equations?