Grrl Power #527 – When I say “favor…”
Careful Sydney, some of those terms might be racist? Anyway, clearly she’s a drow. Or… maybe a dark elf… Actually what’s the difference? I think dark elf is maybe a non D&D version of a drow? Actually, hopefully she’s not a drow because most of them are buttholes. The main characters of most books about drow non-withstanding obviously. Just, all of the rest of them usually.
It’s a fair bet The Council doesn’t know the full range of Krona’s full abilities. They know she can flip a door’s flag from “locked” to “unlocked” with incredible ease, (not that a locked door is much of a challenge to any of the Vi’s) and she can reload an allies’ gun or even unload an enemies’ gun and lots of other useful but mostly cantrip level things. Time manipulation is something most sensible people should be nervous about, and it’s obvious Krona barely knows what she’s doing, much less had paradox checking code worked out.
(Sorry again about the late update. I’ll get on the horn with support and see if I can figure out what’s going on. Hopefully this will be the last late one.)
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Actually, Drow is from Norse mythology. DnD does not have a lock on that particular word (although they have tried). I’ve also seen Svartelf used.
Aww, Michael beat me to it. Also Max’s new weapon seems to be working on everyone! Bet that will be hilarious when they get back to base!
Just shrug it off as testing Math’s latest training regime…
Of course, if Max actually shrugs… ;-P
Svartalfen are from Norse mythology. Drow (rhymes with ‘no’) is the family name of the two brothers who suggested their inclusion into the D&D game, citing that since elves and dwarves (both also from Norse mythology) had already been included in the game as canon, so too should the subterranean elven offshoot.
I’ve been around D&D a LONG time, and I’m familiar with some of the legal shenanigans TSR in particular tried to pull… and yet, I’ve never heard anything like that, so I suspect it is not true.
“Drow” can be found in old dictionaries meaning “cave elf”, so I suspect that’s all it was (just like most of the other material they used that was already public domain… Warhammer and WH 40K do the same thing).
Drow comes from the Orkney/Shetlandic Trow, who are more in the dwarvish Nibelung tradition of underground treasure hoarders than the elvish one. Draugr is a separate term for a barrow dwelling undead that happens to sound like drow, and crops up in various sagas but it’s likely they share a common root. Svartalfar are the underground dwelling elves of Norse myth and literally translates as Black or Dark Elf. The three have become linked because Gary Gygax borrowed Drow as a name for the D&D version of Svartalfar, and because draugr sounds like drow.
I thought it came from Trow. Which is a word that possibly means troll, elf or dwarf. Or just refers to underground spirits. I know that it gets some use in the areas of Scotland that were ‘influenced’ by Scandinavian raiders and settlers.
Did you mean “Draug”? Not quite the same kind of supernatural creature, though.
Aren’t draugr zombie-skeleton hybrid undead? At least in Skyrim they are.
As far as I know, Draugr are from the Norse mythology and are ambulatory undead tasked with a single function (normally “kill whoever killed them”, but can be otherwise including “protect this place”). Skyrim plays it reasonably straight, but that shouldn’t be surprising as (like the Klingon afterworld), the religion (and titles) of Skyrim are heavily based on the Norse/Anglo Saxon traditions.
Yes, as I understand it, they are land-born equivalents to the marine undead spirits called orkan (from which Orkney, orca, ogre, and orc/ork are all arguably taken, though Tolkien was taking the word from multiple sources and never used the sea-monster angle).
Or maybe the same. Or completely different. Or all of the above, depending on the storyteller and the region.
It isn’t as if there is a lot of consistency in oral tradition, after all, contrary to the impression given by the written versions that later codified things like the Trojan War, the wars between the deeva and the asura, and the Norse/Teutonic stories of the Aesir and Vanyir.
Bleah, I dropped the capitalization on the Hindu gods and demons. Sorry.
As far as I have seen, “drow” is unique term for D&D Forgotten Realms for dark elves inhabiting the Underdark. Black/dark skinned elves are quite typical in Japanese fantasy (anime, manga, light novels), and never have I seen those called drow. Most of them are surface dwellers, only going to underground to take cover from dragons or whatever.
My character Frostfire, is a half-drow, with a human mother, shunned by humans and Drow, she became a mercenary Ranger. After she retired, she became a Daughter of Tiamat, she was given a shadowsword which can cut through order and the ability to polymorph. Unlike a Shape-shifter with limited shapes, she can take any form Animal, Vegetable, or Mineral.
The sword is not carried, it can only be summoned.. So she can never be deprived of it, it vanishes automatically when she is not holding it.
In spite of her birth, she is lawful Chaotic.
How does lawful chaotic work?
Drow are Chaotic Evil. Tiamat is Lawful Evil. I suspect the final sentence was meant to read:
“In spite of her birth, she is Lawful Evil.”
This because evil is the common link in both her influences. Plus the phrase “After she retired, she became a Daughter of Tiamat” sounds like taking up a title or character class. One which would presumably uphold the principles of Tiamat (i.e. Lawful Evil). Which would be consistent with not holding with the precepts of her birth society (Chaotic Evil).
In early versions of AD&D rangers were specifically good aligned. Plus Dritz, the most famous Drow ranger, is a powerful role-model, who will influence people’s choices. So possibly the character may be good, and thereby not following their birth society’s alignment. However that seems to contradict choosing to follow Tiamat.
Either that or the character has split personality, or something equally extreme, such as two heads, each with opposing alignments!
Also referred to as Svartalfar…
“Eyes up here, young lady!”
Wonder if it was the suggestion or the eye-line that prompted the cuff line, plus, we know that Kronachrome likes wearing cuffs :wink:
That was Elsbeth that had the pink fuzzy cuffs in her book of holding. And Pixel was the one that liked being spanked. (GP0485)
Oh right, can see the pink hair now, knew one of the pocket-sized ladies was involved, and one liked the spanking and the other the cuffs
I usually laugh at the “cuff” line.
In Scotland, to cuff someone is to hit them. A kind of slapping motion.
So, the line “Don’t make me cuff you.” reads as “Don’t make me smack you round the head.”
It used to be the same in America, but that definition became obsolete….
It never became obsolete, its just more popular to use the slang for handcuffs in the USA.
Yeah, from the old term for boxing or fighting: fisticuffs
Your comment made me realise that’s not what Max meant… a whack round the head as mild disciplinary action
Peggy is a lesbian, or bisexual, Max should be glad Peggy wasn’t there. :)
Peggy is there, check the first panel again
Bisexual, she gets “beggerin’ for a preggerin’ ” sometimes and goes for men.
The sudden worried expression on Krona in panel 4 is very well done. Nice arting, Dave!
Panel five is my favorite. Must be this perfectly lit/shadowed cleavage.
Well, that jacket is definitely no TARDIS…But it looks about as stuffed as a normal Police Box would look if the Doctor tried to move into one.
Awwww, no dabbler showing up late to the party yet? THIS IS HER TIME! Hiro is presumably in the buff somewhere or close to it and Max isn’t far off ether. The HR nightmare is sooo close I can taste it…
I also have to wonder about something about Max in this too. Since Max has the bulletproof and super skin thing going on. Does that mean she’s still jiggly or is she more rigid in that sense?
Think of it like a water balloon made of leather. It’s still gonna deform if overall pressure is applied, but the surface doesn’t flex as easily on smaller pressure points.
That is assuming “bulletproof skin” is her default and not one of the ‘5 core attributes” that she boosts.
I think it is a combination. Bulletproof to small arms is default, but she can crank it to where 16-inch shells from a battleship are only an annoyance.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1844 Jiggle Alert!!
I would assume she’s still jiggly, you don’t have to be hard to be bulletproof. Look at Luke Cage, his skin is still skin like yet nigh impenetrable.
She doesn’t have bulletproof skin, she has a protective field slightly above her skin. It usually protects her clothing too.
Both actually. Normally the protective field is enough though she is also (if I recall correctly) a 3 star out of five on physical defence aswell as her other powers. It can be boosted to five with moving her stats around or higher by dipping into her reserves. Six is the highest stat we have seen for this though that team member can’t age or even get a hair cut with a cruise missile.
She’s super jiggly of course, so eyes front….
That’s where most eyes are located (and fixated)
Maybe I’ve been binge reading too much of DMFA. Every time someone says “Eyes up here!”, this is what I think of:
https://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1261.php
(For those who haven’t read DMFA before, and don’t know: ‘Cubi can shapeshift their wings to hide them or do other things with them. So that’s where the extra two hands are coming from in the last panel.)
I imagine her to very nicely perfectly jiggly in chestal region. Screw physics, I like bouncies.
This must be one of the few forums that discuss boob physics. And even in a funny and non creepy way. I’m sure Dabbler have written several books on the subject.
Since Anvil absorbs kinectic energy she should have no jiggle at all.
not exactly. her recent exploits have shown that she can charge her moves meaning she has a sort of power management. if she absorbed all kinetic energies affecting her body she’d always be charged due to gravity and wind hitting her constantly. she’d probably die from all of the energy being pulsed into her. also means going out into the sun would be a no go. i believe while it is innate ability (an ability that is ever present) she has a degree of control over it. like how cyclops eye lasers are techinically always on but the psyionic field in his head keeps him from blowing his damn brain off or keeps him balanced while shouting anything above a handguns strength.
Fun fact: Cyclops has brain damage from the plane crash was in when he was young, that is why the beams are always active he lost the part of his brain that can control them. His entire body cannot be damaged by his power so closing his eyes can block the beams I have never heard of a “psyonic field” being part of it but could be. Additionally he and his brother cannot be hurt by each others powers.
I would assume that there’s some kind of jiggle, as she complained that the impact when Sydney dropped her on Vehemence hurt her boobs (https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1502). So there has to be some movement rather than none due to kinetic energy absorption.
Yay, nice save Dave. Glad you spotted the problem nice and early. I hope you did not loose too much sleep, in the process!
And looks like the collective wishes, that Pixel joins the team, will come true.
**happy little doggy dance**
Umm, Pixel always was with Archon, did you mean Kronachrome? o_O
I have wished for Krona, dunno about others.
As Arc-light, not Arc-swat….
Yea, just my brain doing its usual trick and swapping names around.
Seems to be a common theme today :D
More women for the A team is relevant to your interests right?
Whoo, in before Yorp.
.
You will feel a slight pinch, and when you wake up you won’t be so ballsy.
.
Hmm, just what is Kronachrome examining in panel two? Some sort of a cylinder or tube of some sort? o_O
Maybe personalising a toy? For reasons.
One of the shards of crystal from the thing Hiro pulled out of the Super Husk.
Thank you
So, not all of it exploded then, that’s good to know
But… VORCH!
Heh. ”I fought Sciona and all I got was this tiny T-shirt.”
Does Maxima have the authority to make that “insistence” stick if Krona were to have declined to return to base with her?
For all intents and purposes she is placing Krona under arrest.
This does not sit well with me.
Either she has committed a crime or she hasn’t. Simply being capable of destructive acts is not probable cause in our universe, are the laws different in Grrl Power’s USA?
Yes. The law which created Archon gave them authority over any extraordinary threats. Maxima has invoked this, by what she said above. The proceedure that would be followed is the same as any police officer can take. Namely if the person refuses to co-operate with a request, then they can be arrested. The specific charge could be, for arguments sake “Reckless endangerment of life’, with a sample 7 billion counts.
Not that Archon is the only one capable of laying that charge. Any cop could do so, jurisdiction permitting. And that is what the Archon act grants them.
Thank you Yorp and Aza for the clarification.
I had indeed forgotten that the Archon act was so far reaching.
That may all be well and good but how do you enforce on a person that can change reality?You can’t lock her up. She could effectively become invisible and just walk out of any enclosure. If worse came to really worse, she could go back in time to before incarceration.
No power is absolute. Magic has already been shown to be effective in blocking Krona.
If the law applies to extraterrestrials, then it would be >7 milliard.
Anything that gives police the power to say “not doing what we say when we say it gives us probable cause to arrest you and charge you with something” is begging to be abused.
And hey, it routinely is, every day, in the US.
That is not what the law says. Krona had to do something which could be proven to be a threat. She attempted to manipulate time, creating a loop, which may never have been broken out of. Plus demonstrated that she lacks basic understanding in her power, by the fact that it did not even work as she intended.
Plus there are remedies, under law, for police who abuse their powers. False arrest is a criminal offence and they can find themselves going to jail for it. But, just like the above criteria, it has to be proven.
As TheSkulker indicates above this may be hard to do. However that is why there are specialist units to handle such cases. Internal investigation units, for rogue police, and Archon for supers/the supernatural. Bearing in mind that is not just Arc-SWAT but also includes Arc-Light and Arc-Dark. Both of which will include individuals with extraordinary investigative techniques and powers.
No, Killjoy, it routinely isn’t. There’s a few bad apples in every organization, and that’s what the media focuses on because that’s what generates the most viewers (which in turn generates the most money for the studio). But the “bad cops” are actually few and far between.
The news tends to report on the extraordinary and unusual. You hear about the few planes that crash instead of the millions of flights that go as expected, taking off at one airport and landing at another. Even if the plane is diverted to an alternate airport is not usually reported because, while it is an unusual event, it happens fairly often without incident.
1) It’s a big enough country with enough cops that “happens every day” and “a few bad apples” aren’t mutually exclusive.
2) Take a look into how many people are ONLY arrested under some sort of variation on “resisting arrest”, and never end up charged with anything else. There are “good” cops all over who fall back on this every day too.
This is disturbing if people think this is okay. Seems to me that if Archon was given that authority, it would be an unconstitutional grant of power and I wouldhopesomeone would stop Archon. You cnnot arrest someone for having the potential to be a threat if they have done nothing in furtherance of creating an actual crime. Just like with the guy with the tons of gold. I am good at chemistry. And I have access to the internet. Therefore there is a threat that I could know how to make a bomb. You cant arrest me for that mere threat based on my ability though, or even bring me in if I refuse. It would have been a lot better if Krona had WANTED to join Archon in order to study the orbs more (aka God’s blueprints).
At no point have I condoned the arresting of anyone just because they have a power.
What Krona has demonstrated though is that she has incompetence with a power that has the potential to harm every person in the universe! This is going by her own description of her power, regardless of the less impressive result.
Cops are obliged to protect the lives of people. If (as an example only) we were all to be inescapably trapped into an eternal loop, then all progress of civilisation, everybody’s personal lives, and so on would cease.
Maxima is acting in the defense of everybody’s lives here. But doing so in a way that is designed to minimise the infringement of Krona’s rights. However her rights to tinker with time do not override my rights not to be stuck in an eternal time loop.
do not override my rights not to be stuck in an eternal time loop.
do not override my rights not to be stuck in an eternal time loop.
do not override my rights not to be stuck in an eternal time loop.
“At no point have I condoned the arresting of anyone just because they have a power.”
You have, however, condoned the unlawful detainment of someone just because they have a power (regardless of if they’ve used it to commit a crime or not, such as vigilantism). If Archon allows that in their charter, it’s unconstitutional, since that’s a bill of attainder.
“What Krona has demonstrated though is that she has incompetence with a power that has the potential to harm every person in the universe!”
Actually she has NOT demonstrated that. Since she has not harmed anyone. And she’s had these powers for some time now. And as soon as she saw even the possibility of a problem, she immediately took down the code, for which she had multiple redundancies, limitations, and safeties on to begin with. In fact, she’s HELPED people, like Sydney and Pixel, who would otherwise be dead now.
“This is going by her own description of her power, regardless of the less impressive result.”
She actually does not know a full description of her power. Which does not mean Archon has any place in telling her about it. From what I know from history, putting the military in charge of scientific progress and people… there’s a pretty significant chance that weaponization will occur. And Archon specifically stated that it is not illegal to have powers, nor will they be detained for having them. They should have just ASKED Krona if she could come in to see if she’d be willing to help them figure out what her powers are and how they tie in with Sydney’s orbs. Krona would have likely agreed WITHOUT the threats and coercion, because she seemed fascinated by the skill tree. In awe, really.
“Cops are obliged to protect the lives of people.”
Cops are NOT obliged to take the law into their own hands and arrest people for simply having a skill or ability. If you see a guy who is 7 foot 2 and musclebound but has done NOTHING illegal or even arguably illegal to anyone, and you are a cop, you are NOT obliged to ask them to come back to the station, even just to talk, while holding your hand on your gun as if to imply that it’s not a request.
“If (as an example only) we were all to be inescapably trapped into an eternal loop, then all progress of civilisation, everybody’s personal lives, and so on would cease.”
Yet that hasnt happened. You’re making up a false threat which has not occurred in order to justify doing an illegal action. There’s precedent, even IN UNIVERSE, that Archon does not have the right to do that, with the gold guy. He showed them the gold, they aren’t doing anything to stop him, because he’s doing nothing illegal. And honestly even if he did devalue the gold market, that wouldn’t be illegal either. Most governments are on a fiat state of currency anyway. If anything, a huge surplus of gold in the market would hurt THE GEOMANCER GUY… because his gold would become far more worthless then. So he has the ABILITY to do something, but doesn’t do it. He can’t be arrested for that, or even detained. He didn’t even HAVE to show Archon if he didn’t want to.
“do not override my rights not to be stuck in an eternal time loop.”
Yorp could potentially bite me, so I think you should have a muzzle put on you and not be allowed treats, as they might make you hyper. Sure, you havent actually shown that you would bite me, but the possibility does exist, and rawhide treats do make dogs hyper.
Do not override my rights to not risk getting bitten by an internet dog avatar.
Do not override my rights to not risk getting bitten by an internet dog avatar.
Do not override my rights to not risk getting bitten by an internet dog avatar.
Actually do override those rights, because I have no basis for saying that I’m in danger of that other than a vivid imagination. :)
You have yet to show any detainment, let alone unlawful
Most cops just have nowhere near the ability to enforce that arrest. Even Max might have trouble actually arresting her and taking her back to Archon HQ, but at least she does have some colleagues that can help. Think “I’m not a lesbian. I’m not a lesbian. Who am I kidding?! Let me at her!” or “Look, we worked well together. Don’t make me do this. We really just want to understand what you can do without having the universe unravel in a timey-wimey ball of, well, bad stuff.”
But all that was moot, as she has appeared to agree with only slightly less trepidation than the first time Sydney came to Archon.
From what i can see Arc-Swat has full authority to deal with any “atypical” potential threats by whatever means necessary.
Krona has potentially universe destroying power but as Max has said she doesn’t believe Krona has any ill intent which is why she’s not doing a direct arrest but a “We need you to come down to the station and answer some questions”
Max probably also understands that going to war with Krona would be a Very Bad Idea(TM) so the fact she’s being polite but insistent means that she thinks Krona is going to co-operate and likely become an asset. If she seriously regarded Krona as malicious or thought she would fight it then Max would have knocked her out or had someone with the best skillset (probably Dabbler) incapacitate her until they work out how to deal with her. The danger being she has no idea what contingencies Krona has loaded up.
Whilst Krona may not understand the full extent of her powers there’s every chance that she could do things like unpower Max or even write her out of existence so it’s possible that Krona may in fact be currently the most powerful super alive.
Among the reasons Krona may desire to stay in the vicinity of Sydney, if not any other particular Archonian, is that she has seen the ultimate Source Code when Syd leveled up. Machine Language. Binary coding. Assembly language. She apparently uses some higher language like Kobald or Vortran or MagicBasic 4.5. There were versions specified when folks were discussing programming the sigil dingusses that create the veil(s) that hide Weres and others from humanity. (Lexica Arcanex vs. Arcanum++ see https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2257)
I don’t know what language Krona uses. But when Sydney leveled up… (https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2447) she used terms like “the Deep Code” and “the universe laid bare” and Dave said, “Krona may have root access, but it seems someone else has machine level access.”
Bump and as Maxima has noted “Rock paper scissors” Is how supers conflict… Superman is the most Powerful until a Wizard turns him into a piece of kryptonite….
Looking through the archives Krona sometimes uses her goggles while reality hacking, and sometimes doesn’t.
Does her code get saved to a conventional storage medium (in the goggles?) such that it could be read by others? Or would she have to actively display it for them on her holographic interface / copy it out to some other storage medium so Dabber and the Arc-Light group to examine it? Would others be able to understand the code without Krona’s interpretation?
If she has to actively participate to display or interpret the code I foresee some 5th amendment issues with compelling her to assist in perusing her code for law enforcement purposes.
Man I do not envy ARC’s lawyers.
I would. If Arianna gets snuggly with Suzy News!
All of your other points are well made. But none are an issue so long as Krona co-operates. If she obstructs them, they already have enough eye-witness evidence, from police officers, to secure a conviction. So she is well incentivised to do so.
Not that I think such is necessary mind. Krona was obviously concerned, when she realised her error. So, even though she is very obviously used to working solo (being in a faction of her own), I think Krona will recognise the safety in having her code checked. Whilst she may resent it, she does have her own failure as a reminder.
Who says they have to compel her? In my opinion, she should volunteer. It’s for her benefit too. Think about it: She admits she doesn’t exactly know how her power works. Understanding how it works would allow her to make better use of it without having to worry about accidentally breaking something major (like, you know, the universe.)
How would someone else know how to code in the reality’s source code better than Krona, its sole user?
Well Krona got it wrong. So something needs to be done to teach her how to do it right. Being the only person who can do something does not make her competent at it. Krona has proven that already.
And why do you think Archon are the people who should teach her. Why should a military organization be teaching a reality bender how to reality bend, when they have even less experience with reality benders than Krona does (Krona at least has her own self-experimentation in the past and she HAS been cautious about it as soon as she spots even a potential problem). Archon, on the other hand, has zippo experience with Krona’s powers. No one does. And they shouldnt strongarm her into it.
Who else would you suggest? Deus?
You do realise that this military organisation employs top-notch computer hackers, and magic users, and Lord’s only know what else
Because there are only two qualified institutions (which we know about), namely Archon and the Twilight Council. Both study those with extraordinary powers, the nature of their powers and their use. Both have contacts to find individuals with comparable backgrounds. Plus Archon, at least, has comprehensive training programs, safety protocols and an ethos that is safety-focused.
Archon clearly allow everybody the opportunity to self-teach and learn their own powers. Provided they do so safely they do not intervene. Once somebody has shown both incompetence and they assess that said incompetence may be endangering the public safety, then they intervene.
Krona has failed in her self-teaching role. The Twilight Council has failed in its supervisory role. It is Archon’s turn.
Up to this point I am simply stating the practicality and the morality. Now we turn to the legal aspect. Archon have been given the power by an act of government. Which makes it legal.
Yes I appreciate there is a conflict of interest in a military organisation also handling a teaching role. Yes there is the risk of undue influence in persuading supers (and now supernaturals) to join their ranks. However the military have long used that as a legitimate recruiting tactic.
But I also appreciate that many people (especially Americans) would would want the teaching and policing/military roles separated. However this is where the limited number of individuals with extraordinary powers comes into play. They are the ones who are needed if something goes wrong.
Plus they are the best ones to help with teaching, because they have gone through similar issues and can anticipate problems that others may not. So even though the powers are not an exact match, they do have an edge over other organisations.
If a civilian academy starts up, and is shown to be effective, then Archon could delegate the responsibility to them. Until such time though, the legal responsibility remains with Archon.
But in order to teach someone about something you have to actually understand it better than them.
Note that sensible regimes give cops lassitude to resolve issues outside of courts and jails. Krona has committed a crime here. She has recklessly endangered the lives of everybody. However if Archon can ensure that any such risk is prevented, in future, and can persuade her to directly use her powers to help against ongoing threats, then society is being well served.
French officers (of a specific sort, if I recall correctly) have limited judicial powers, for minor crimes. But are not mandated to use them. So there is a considerable incentive for people to co-operate with them, to avoid the penalties they can mete out.
So a minor might be given a second chance (like Krona is getting here), but with their local cop able to rescind that, without the involvement of the courts, if they transgress again or otherwise misbehave.
I don’t think Maxima will compel Krona to join, that is against their ethos. But she certainly will enforce the examination and making safe of Krona’s powers.
Quick little insert to correct the evils of spellcheck. You seem to have meant “latitude” not “lassitude.”
Latitude – the scope for freedom of action or thought
Lassitude – a state of physical or mental weariness; lack of energy
Many might argue for the applicability of lassitude to some cops, but from context, we probably all knew what you meant. It’s Monday. Have a Yorpie Snack.
Would swear I had checked it was the right one. I suspect I have slipped through into another world, where I had not.
Still the snax are good here still, thanks.
*munch munch munch*
Yorp, no Krona did not commit a crime. She did not endanger lives and you cannot prove that she did. Your theories are not proof. Sorry.
I am afraid I cannot type at the moment as my keyboard is kaput. Sorry.
No problem. I typed my responses on my phone, hence my sparse response and lack of spacing sometimes in some of my posts :)
My point, however, is this – Krona committed no crime. Maxima has committed far more crimes than Krona has, in fact, including what she’s done in this scene with Krona. At the very least, it’s false imprisonment, and I have yet to see anyone explain how this is any different than someone telling me, while holding a gun to my head, that they ‘insist’ that I come with them to the police station because I know chemistry and have access to the internet, since that means I’m capable of building a bomb. The law requires more than that. Krona is in a situation, given Maxima’s already proven willingness to use lethal force, or at least the appearance which Maxima has given (on national TV, no less) to use lethal force in order to simply prove she’s the toughest and most dangerous one out there. Much as I love Maxima as a character in general, I think she’s exhibiting a startlingly fascist and unconstitutional mentality right now.
I’m just pointing out mistakes in your post. Those mistakes being:
“Krona has committed a crime here.”
She committed no crime. There is no crime against using powers to save another person’s life. There is not even a crime against temporal manipulation. There IS a crime against destruction of private property, or police mitigating damage during an arrest or taking down a suspect. Which Anvil did (although I’m assuming ARCHON has been given special immunities to those sorts of charges, and more leeway despite how easily that could be abused). Even with leeway though, what Maxima did is illegal and unconstitutional.
“She has recklessly endangered the lives of everybody.”
She did not. Even if you say she ‘potentially’ endangered lives, she did not actually endanger lives. There is no crime there. Anvil, on the other hand, did recklessly endanger lives with her super-duper-suplex, assuming that Krona was anywhere close. You can say that Hiro recklessly endangered lives, including that of Anvil (and Krona) when he yanked out ‘something that looks important’ since it resulted in an explosion, and he had no way to know that Anvil would dive behind Sydney’s shield, that Sydney’s shield would protect Anvil from the heat (as if heat and destructive energy only goes in ONE direction, or that Krona was clear of a potential blast). Again, Anvil and Hiro are likely because they have special immunities. Or while we’re at it, Maxima has acted recklessly as well, including at the bank. Yes, I know – she’s so fast that she could stop the bullet and no one was ever in danger, according to Maxima. As if she knows that there’s nothing that could distract her. Regardless, she was reckless. But it worked out, right? Guess what, it worked out for Krona as well. :) Shaun (I think that’s his name) was reckless in keeping explosives in his car. He’s not even a super – what’s the excuse there? Peggy was reckless in firing a missile at the Superhusk when Krona was in the area. And so on.
“However if Archon can ensure that any such risk is prevented, in future, and can persuade her to directly use her powers to help against ongoing threats, then society is being well served.”
Like I mentioned above, Archon has caused even MORE reckless activity than Krona has… with actual reckless results, even though they ultimately succeeded. So did Krona.
“French officers (of a specific sort, if I recall correctly) have limited judicial powers”
Archon is in the US. It has a basis in the Constitution. This much is known from the press conference even. I’m sure in some countries, all supers are killed upon realizing they are supers by the government. Doesn’t mean that foreign laws apply in the US.
“So there is a considerable incentive for people to co-operate with them, to avoid the penalties they can mete out.”
What you’re describing sound a bit like the Gestapo, actually… Or the Judges in Judge Dredd.
“So a minor might be given a second chance (like Krona is getting here),”
Krona shouldnt need to get a ‘second chance’ from Maxima. Maxima and Archon have no authority over her, just like they have no authority over ANYONE who has not committed a crime.
“but with their local cop able to rescind that, without the involvement of the courts, if they transgress again or otherwise misbehave.”
Judge, jury and executioner should never be in the hands of one person. Especially not a police officer who may not be particularly versed in the law. Maxima doesn’t strike me as the one who understands the intricacies of the law. That would be more like Arianna’s field of expertise.
“I don’t think Maxima will compel Krona to join, that is against their ethos.”
She shouldnt be allowed to compel Krona to do anything as long as Krona hasnt done anything illegal. Not even mentioning that she’s part of a coalition which Archon is trying to ALLY and work with.
“But she certainly will enforce the examination and making safe of Krona’s powers.”
She doesn’t have that right. Being a cop doesn’t allow you to rescind other people’s freedom of movement if they have done nothing illegal and there’s no probable cause. What is Maxima going to do if Krona says ‘No, I will not come with you.’ The hand on Krona’s shoulder is an implied threat. The cuffs line is an explicit threat. It’s sort of disgusting and discouraging to see a character I like do something like that, unless someone else calls Maxima on that and prevents her from going through with it – hopefully Sydney.
Then Krona could, if she wants to when there’s NOT a threat anymore, volunteer to go because she wants to learn more about Sydney’s orbs.
There is no ‘false imprisonment’ because there is no ‘imprisonment’ at all. Do you see any bars? Or a cage?
The hand on the shoulder was simply “I need you to pay attention to what I am about to tell you” because she barely paid any attention in panel two
The cuff line was a joke after Maxi asked her to lay off the reality hacking and Kronachrome immediately said that she would hack reality just to change Harem’s jacket
Actually false imprisonment does not require an actual prison. It just requires a person having a legitimate belief that he or she is unable to leave when they have committed no crime. Seriously this is basic stuff in a first year law class for torts.
As for paying attention to the hand on her shoulder, damned skippy she took notice of it.
As for the cuff joke, its a bad joke after what Maxima just insisted, and is further proof that Krona is not free to leave despite committing no crime.
Again, the cuff-line was after Kronachrome just disregarded Maxi’s request to lay off the universe hacking
There’s no +1 or Upvote button, so I just felt the need to comment my complete agreement, and addition of the fact that Archon wouldn’t have anyone who would be capable of teaching Krona how to better program in the language only she knows.
Your analogy is inaccurate. The other week a student, in a UK school accidentally created a highly explosive compound. This required the attendance of the police (and possibly the bomb squad). During the course of their investigations they would have had to:
1) make the scene safe.*
2) determine there was no hostile intent (I accept that in Krona’s case there was not.
3) find out who is responsible. (In this case would likely have been the teacher, for inadequate supervision but could have been found to be the student recklessly mixing volatile chemicals.)**
4) Arrest anyone who has committed an appropriate offence (such as recklessly endangering the lives of others).
Note that none of these stages is optional.*** The suspects are required to co=operate and failing to do so opens them up to a variety of charges. Which I am sure you could list better than I (were you sitting in the prosecutor’s chair, rather than the defense’s).
I better leave it there. I have to get back to my work. Which, if it goes as well as I hope, will help reduce the frequency that people around the world try to blow each other and themselves up. Seriously!
But I will probably need a break from that, so may pick this up again tomorrow.
* This is not optional for anybody involved, suspect or otherwise. For example failing to co-operate in evacuation (without a very good reason, such as a teacher insisting on assisting a special needs pupil being evacuated first) would be obstructing a police officer in her duty to protect the public.
Krona is the scene, as well as being the student, by the way, if you were missing the relevance of this aspect, in this analogy. Her power makes her the bomb. This considerably complicates the matter. So this has to be taken into consideration too.
** Again Krona appears more than once in this scenario. She is not just the student, she is also the teacher! There is no quibbling about who shoulders the responsibility for her actions!
*** To the extent that complaints may be made about Maxima NOT arresting Krona. Hence the reason why I have earlier offered my justifications for that.
“Your analogy is inaccurate. The other week a student, in a UK school accidentally created a highly explosive compound.”
My analogy is NOT inaccurate. Yours is. My analogy is a person possessing the potential knowledge of HOW to make a bomb because they know basic chemistry and have access to the internet. Your example has someone who actually BUILT a bomb. That shows mens rea and actus reus. My analogy does not. Neither does what Krona did.
“Note that none of these stages is optional.*** The suspects are required to co=operate and failing to do so opens them up to a variety of charges. Which I am sure you could list better than I (were you sitting in the prosecutor’s chair, rather than the defense’s).”
Please read what I wrote earlier about actus reus. For the police to do something, and for there to be ANY sort of case, there needs to be some actual action in furtherance of a crime. Having mere knowledge or a potential ability to do something is NOT action in furtherance of a crime.
“Krona is the scene, as well as being the student, by the way, if you were missing the relevance of this aspect, in this analogy. Her power makes her the bomb. This considerably complicates the matter. So this has to be taken into consideration too.”
Actually, her power does NOT make her the bomb. This is the entire point of Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3. You cannot make someone illegal for their mere existence without any sort of trial to show that they committed an actual CRIME. You can’t find someone guilty by basis simply of who they are. It’s literally one of the core elements protecting the rights of American citizens.
It’s also the reason that Marvel’s Civil War is a pile of horse pocky if you ever tried to argue it in court. While you could use a registration limitation for someone who has a special object, you can’t put a registration limitation on someone who has a special skill or ability. (ie, the whole idea of ‘his hands are registered as lethal weapons’ is a load of bunk – you can’t, and don’t have to, register your hands as lethal weapons if you can kill a man 17 ways with your pinky).
“*** To the extent that complaints may be made about Maxima NOT arresting Krona. Hence the reason why I have earlier offered my justifications for that.”
Even if it’s just temporary detainment, and not an arrest, it’s still an unlawful detainment in this situation, since Maxima already admitted that she doesn’t think she has any nefarious intent, AND thanked her for what she did to save Pixel and Sydney. You can’t thank someone, say they don’t have intent (ie, not even reasonable suspicion) then detain them, when that would require reasonable suspicion (a legal term which is less than probable cause).
Sadly I cannot spare the time to analyse and counter your various points, much as I would love to, as you argue your case well, even if I disagree with it. However I must keep my reply brief, so shall keep it simple.
A cop does not need to wait until a pedestrian has been hit. If the driver is driving dangerously he can be stopped and arrested for that. Cars are an existing technology so we have specific laws for that.
However to prevent people from acting dangerously in other situations, we have more general laws, but which act on a similar principle. Such as the ones covering recklessly endangering human life. The same standard applies though, you do not need to have caused a death, you just need to have shown to have been acting recklessly.
You and I clearly disagree on the matter of whether this has happened. Therefore, as any good court should do, we should get the testimony of an expert in the field.
We have seen that Krona uses coding that is similar to that used in the orbs. Plus both the orbs and Krona have unique powers which have never been encountered before. Archon is the leading organisation* in the country (and likely in the world) investigating such.
Pixel was chosen as the leading expert to investigate the orbs. This above Zephan, who IS listed as an artifacts expert, IS one of the leaders of the Mage’s guild in the council and IS the most senior member of Arc-Light (the branch which specialises in this). Likewise in preference to Dabbler who has working knowledge of numerous fields, some of which are unknown to humanity.
I contend that Pixel’s credentials are impeccable.
Pixel judged that Krona was recklessly endangering everybody.
Maxima is acting on the advice of the leading expert in the world.
Q.E.D.
* I will discount the Twilight Council as they are a secret organisation, so they do not have the same legal standing as Archon.
Amazing, isn’t it, how quickly people are willing to disregard due process and the rule of law, in the face of even a fictional fear.
At no point have I disregarded due process. Krona has committed a crime, as assessed by Pixel, an expert in such matters. Acting on her advice the senior police officer has decided that police intervention is necessary.
However not being draconian Maxima has chosen not to arrest Krona. Rather she is taking the lesser route of insisting that Krona co-operate in being assessed and trained how to use her power safely.
Krona is not required to accept this. She has the right to say ‘charge me or let me go’. If she takes that route, I am sure that Maxima will try to talk sense into her. If that fails then she will follow the appropriate procedure for arresting her, such as reading Krona her rights.
You accuse Anvil of causing the property damage, guess you missed the part where NotABot used its tentacle to knock Sydney off the roof and then collapse it on her?
I know this is years later but….
NotABot’s actions do not excuse Anvil’s actions in regards to property damage. :)
Yorp, no Krona did not commit a crime. She did not endanger lives and you cannot prove that she did. Your theories are not proof. Sorry.
OK one quickie, before bed.
The way Krona described her power (altering time) would make it one that has the ability to alter a fundamental property of the universe (time). Human life can only exist within a very narrow range of parameters for many of the universal constants. Tweak any one of them and you could cause the whole species to go extinct.
Krona’s own testimony indicates the level of risk she was taking. This is not a theory, this is fact. Krona may have god-like power, but she lacks god-like omniscience. Her work has not been peer-reviewed. She has not conducted a health and safety evaluation, to assess its potential impact. And so on and so forth.
Further she confesses to having made mistakes in her programming and being uncertain about various aspects, which have turned out differently to what she expected. Which, given the scope of her power if her own testimony is to be believed, could just have easily ended all life. This is fact.
However, we are just stating our opinions on the matter. You for the defense, me for the prosecution.
What is not in doubt, in my mind, is Maxima acting correctly in bringing Krona in for further investigation and (subject to her co-operation) re-training. Without her co-operation, it would be her duty to arrest Krona and allow the courts to decide.
Maxima is doing the right thing for a cop. There are reasonable grounds for arrest, if Krona refuses and/or continues to recklessly endanger extinction.
If nothing else Krona is guilty of practicing medicine without a licence, by raising the dead!
[keeps face deadpan straight]
“OK one quickie, before bed”
I’m giving you one treat because your posts are adorable sometimes.
But that’s all, just one treat before bed.
“The way Krona described her power (altering time) would make it one that has the ability to alter a fundamental property of the universe (time).”
Actually I don’t think she described her powers like that at all. In fact she isnt sure HOW her powers work. She made the code as if it’s sort of like a basic program, but instead of it being 10 do this, 20 goto 10, it’s 10 do this, 20 if this happens, then goto 10, except when count = . When she found there was a variable in there that was making her code not work as expected, she stopped it, and when she found that it was local, rather than universal, she undid the code entirely and double checked to make sure there was nothing bad that happened as a result, which there wasn’t. She’s actually rather cautious, which is remarkable considering she’s had to teach herself since there’s no one else capable of teaching her (and I’m not sure how good an idea it is to militarize a reality warper to begin with, when that reality warper is already taking steps to be massively cautious). At the very least, if you’re going to try to get her to join archon, or come to archon to be tested, doing so heavy handedly is the absolute WORST way – offer a carrot, not a stick. She’s interested in finding out about Sydney’s orb tree…. that’s the carrot.
“Human life can only exist within a very narrow range of parameters for many of the universal constants.”
Actually humans are pretty good extremophiles, but I also somehow think that Krona, being human herself, isnt wanting to do something which can get herself killed. She really doesnt want to get killed. She’s admitted she’s not particularly brave which is why she is NOT working for Archon, and is instead working with the Council.
“Tweak any one of them and you could cause the whole species to go extinct.”
I’m honestly not sure where you’re getting the data for your belief from, except from supposition and unfounded guesses :)
“Krona’s own testimony indicates the level of risk she was taking.”
Actually, she specifically states the amounts of precautions she was taking BECAUSE she recognizes theoretical risks, and as soon as she even found one thing which was outside the scope of her code, she nixed the entire code IMMEDIATELY.
“This is not a theory, this is fact. Krona may have god-like power, but she lacks god-like omniscience.”
I don’t think anyone in Archon has godlike omniscience either. Except maybe Sydney via an extreme genre-savvy. :)
“Her work has not been peer-reviewed.”
That would be because she HAS no peers. Except POSSIBLY Sydney, depending on the true nature of the orbs. Who’s going to peer review Krona’s code? Dabbler? How responsible is she? Look at her history. Maxima? Yeah I don’t think she’s particularly knowledgeable about what Krona does either. Zephan? He has no powers, and if the Council signed off on Krona already, and Zephan is part of the Council, wouldn’t that mean he knows what the Council signed off on already?
Why not take in the book lady? What if she creates antimatter from her book and it destroys the planet? Or she creates a black hole from her book and it sucks in the entire solar system? What if she can release a virulent poison from her book that can kill all life on Earth? Yep, the possibility exists, so bring Book Girl (I forget her name) in as well. Even though she hasnt DONE anything like that – the fact that the possibility exists would be enough under this logic. And it would be just as illegal and immoral.
Heck, bring in all the vampires as well. There’s the very real possibility of creating a plague of vampires throughout the entire planet, like in that movie Daybreakers. Sure it might cause a little war, but hey… there’s the possibility they could get out of hand and surely they have NOTHING that can stand up to Maxima by attacking her weaknesses (mental domination possibly), rather than her strengths (ie, physical power).
“She has not conducted a health and safety evaluation, to assess its potential impact. And so on and so forth.”
Obviously she’s created at least SOME sort of simulations, since she modified her code according to what she said to Pixel, and you don’t do that without knowing what you’re trying to modify, and why you’re trying to modify it.
“Further she confesses to having made mistakes in her programming”
Which actually shows she is RESPONSIBLE. When she sees mistakes, she shuts down the code and starts reviewing it, like you do with a regular program. She makes simulations as well, and goes over logs.
“and being uncertain about various aspects, which have turned out differently to what she expected.”
Again, you’re showing that she is responsible, not reckless.
“Which, given the scope of her power if her own testimony is to be believed, could just have easily ended all life. This is fact.”
No, that is opinion. Opinion with no actual basis, in fact. Even based on DaveB’s own posts, the SavePoint is a pretty high up code, and a most of what she normally does is FAR more mundane in scope. She seems to intentionally limit herself. Which is responsible for a reality warper. She’s definitely committed no crime, and all her precautions show that she’s NOT the risk that some people are making her out to be based on far-flung theories with no actual empirical basis.
“However, we are just stating our opinions on the matter. You for the defense, me for the prosecution.”
Yes. Opinions. NOT facts. You said just before ‘this is fact.’ It’s not. It’s your opinion. And it’s based on things which are also opinions, not results that have actually happened.
“What is not in doubt, in my mind, is Maxima acting correctly in bringing Krona in for further investigation and (subject to her co-operation) re-training.”
And if she does not want to cooperate? What’s the game plan then? Kill her? Seems to go against Archon’s charter. Frankly, she shouldnt have even ‘insisted.’ Asking is different than insisting. When police ‘ask’ a person to come to the station to clear up some things, they don’t say ‘You are coming down to the station’ unless they’re prepared to arrest them. Because the person can say ‘no, I will not come with you unless you’re arresting me.’
“Without her co-operation, it would be her duty to arrest Krona and allow the courts to decide.”
No, without her co-operation, it would be her duty to let Krona go since you can’t arrest someone who has not committed a crime. Especially if you ADMIT to the person that they did not commit a crime, and had no nefarious intent even. Publicly. Which Maxima did.
“Maxima is doing the right thing for a cop.”
She really did not. She did something which would risk her getting suspended if she were an actual cop, and which could get the police department and government sued for singling out someone based on their existence. It’s sort of like arresting someone because they’re hispanic, and the police thinks that hispanics are more likely to commit crimes and have a record. You cannot arrest someone just because they exist as a certain group of people. They have to actually DO something illegal to arrest them. That’s what an arrest is.
“There are reasonable grounds for arrest,”
There are not, actually. As a bit of knowledge on the subject, without a warrant, a police officer can only arrest someone for a criminal offense committed or attempted in his or her presence, and by an officer when the criminal offense has in fact been committed and he has reasonable ground for believing that the person arrested has committed it.
The pertinent words here are ‘criminal offense.’ Krona did not commit a crime. If Maxima wants to do something like get a FISA court involved to get a warrant or something, go ahead. Seems like that would also go against ARCHON’s charter as well as being a huge public relations problem, not to mention it could sever ties with the Council, which Archon is trying to foster.
“if Krona refuses and/or continues to recklessly endanger extinction.”
There is absolutely NO proof that she has endangered life at all. There’s not even proof that she’s been reckless. All evidence is, in fact, to the contrary, that she’s been incredibly cautious and nervous about using her power for too much beyond minor shenanigans and tiny changes, and the few times she uses it for something significant, she puts level after level of precautions on it and at the first sign of a problem, she undoes the entire code and rechecks everything to make sure nothing happened bad. Again… that’s the OPPOSITE of recklessness..
“If nothing else Krona is guilty of practicing medicine without a licence, by raising the dead!”
No proof that Sydney actually died. Just proof that she was about to die. She’s like a fireman that saved Sydney just before the flames were going to incinerate her :) Although if she DID die and Krona’s code did, in fact, resurrect her Flash-style (but without time remnants), then that’s covered under the Good Samaritan laws if interpreted broadly :)
[The defense rests.]
Yeah, this is where law gets cloudy with people with super powers. Regardless of what organisations you are with, of how responsible, or nice or good; There is some point where the merely the existence of a “extreme threat” power, means that you have no choice but to go with the authorities until they put enough controls in place to deem you less of a threat (see any standard risk matrix, likelihood and severity), they Are responsible for the protection of entire country after all, even if it means going after fringe groups for whom human laws were never intended for. At the very least, Krona is looking at being on a watch list forever, of course, Max probably would be as well.
The fact that NOBODY knows much about Krona’s powers and how reality works means that in cases like these, it is probably hard to gauge how much of a threat it is.
Uh, where was I, I completely moved away from my original point…
Point is, if government thinks you are a threat, doesn’t matter how many rights you have, how nice you are, who you know, they’ll try to deal with you.
Fair points. And for the record I think Krona is making the right choice here to co-operate.
Risk matrixes tend to get a bit lopsided when the severity column includes entries like “unravel time”, “rewrite history on the scale of the geological / astronomical record” or “annihilate existence”.
After re-reading page 2443 I think Krona might benefit from some peer-review of her code, if only for her own sanity. It’s probably rather harrowing trying a new algorithm or keyword in her code for the first time, wondering just what kind of effects it may have and whether she or the world around her would survive the experimentation.
Also hints and education on ‘how not to destroy the universe on accident’ are always helpful I think. As Max pointed out, for suppers just learning about their powers can be a potentially hazardous situation, such as when she gave her home a new window discovering that she can shoot energy beams of great power. Fortunately for her, she did not hit anybody but that situation could easily have gone a lot worse. Now with education and training and practice, she has complete control of her powers and is not in danger of blasting any one on accident.
I agree max is asking that she come to the base so people can help her use her power safely for her and others well being, and maybe give advise on how to make reality hacks more efficient or precise at the same time (free power up). add in the chance to maybe see halo pull up the grid again and share an extended examination letting everyone learn would be appealing to her as well.
How would Archon have someone who knows Krona’s reality-hacking programming language better than her, the sole user and possible designer?
In another webcomic-verse there are characters whose attitude toward any hint of time travel is “kill it, cremate the body, cremate the witnesses, torch the scene, send viruses to destroy the online backups, THEN ask questions”.
Questions should not be asked. Because then history will have a record of their activities and time travellers will know to take precautions. If someone starts asking questions they need to be cremated too.
You can’t imprison someone because of their mere existence. That literally is unconstitutional.
As in, goes against the exact wording in the Constitution. I’m not even talking bill of rights and Amendments (which you could also argue that it is, because of the 4th and 14th Amendments). I’m talking in the Articles themselves. As in Article 1, Section 9, paragraph 3 – “No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law will be passed.” For those who are not legal-savvy, a bill of attainder is a legislative act which singles out an individual or group for punishment, often without a trial.”
For example, all redheaded people are now illegal because they exist.
Or in this case, all people with Krona’s powerset – ie, Krona, the only one WITH that powerset, is illegal because of her mere existence, regardless of whether she even did anything illegal.
No one is being imprisoned, as you said, there is no one else with Kronachrome’s powerset, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t smart people who could help her understand them, which is what Maxi is saying
If she said that and Krona had the ability to refuse then there would be no problem. She did not. She made a demand couched with the word strongly insist, coupled with her hand on Krona’s shoulder to restrain her in case she did not want to go aling with Max’s insistence, coupled with the later “cuffs” ‘joke.’
There is also no one with Macima’s powerset or Harem’s powerset either. That does not mean they lose their rights for their mere existence. Thats called a bill of attainder and it is expressly forbidden in Article 1 of the Constitution. Congress cannot make a law like that even without it being unconstitutional. It is a major problem with several parts of the Superhuman Registration Act in Marvel’s Civil War storyline as well.
I agree with other commenters. She is not so much being arrested, just being asked to come to the station for some questioning and to have her tools examined for safety purposes and perhaps a brief universe safety class. Which will probably include information how to avoid doing anything that would result in formal charges.
Max also clarifies that she is going to get things cleared up with Krona’s organization/direct chain of command. This clarification should hopefully allay some concerns Krona, and the audience, might have about ARC absconding with a potentially dangerous member of another team.
Not only that, but Kronachrome seems willing to be examined to find out what she can do, specially after that whole deal with ‘time reboot’ thingy, which she herself said she didn’t fully understand and acknowledged how dangerous it was
“Please come with me to the police station, I say as I clamp my hand down on your shoulder – a hand which you know could easily crush your shoulder, or incinerate you if you fail to comply, and a hand which will not let go no matter what you do to try to get away. Oh and if you use your powers for any reason, I will place handcuffs on you, because I think that YOU’RE a threat, even though I’m the only one doing or saying anything threatening here.”
“… a hand which will not let go no matter what you do to try to get away.”
You mean, like turn and face Maxi and agree to go with her?
“Oh and if you use your powers for any reason”
Like altering Bodie’s jacket that Maxi is borrowing? You are aware that response was the only time cuffs were mentioned, aren’t you? And it was a friendly joke, just like you see in movies where one person jokingly says to not make them gag someone who won’t stop talking
“You mean, like turn and face Maxi and agree to go with her?”
As if she has a choice. A police officer points a gun at you (despite you committing no crime) and strongly insists you come with them, or a large man grabs your arm at a club and Suggests strongly that you come out into the back alley with him, are you going to feel particularly safe or free to say no?
She even stammered out the “o… ok”
The correct term is “protective custody” and can be used for specific reasons. She could protest in court, but the term “hack the universe” would mitigate against her. If she passes the Dabbler test, everything should be cool, and she’ll probably get a job offer…..
I think Dabbler’s only test is on the casting couch.
No there is also elevator and kitchen table test plus car backseat test
There’s nothing protective about this. That’s not even what protective custody means. Protective custody means they’re protecting her from an outside threat. Not protecting everyone else from her. Protecting everyone else from her is an ARREST.
Also, when you say “‘hack the universe’ would mitigate against her” …. that makes no sense. 1) That’s not what mitigate means. 2) you’re talking mob rule, not rule of law, and 3) it’s illegal to criminalize someone for merely existing. A jury which did that would have a judge having to make a judgment notwithstanding the jury verdict if Krona has even a semi-competent attorney.
“everything should be cool, and she’ll probably get a job offer…..”
Work for us, or go to jail. Not a real choice there.
This is almost EXACTLY the same language used to convince Sydney to come with Max to Archon the day of the bank robbery.
When a law enforcement officer invokes the law and places someone under arrest, it automatically creates an adversarial situation, where the arrester and arrestee are assumed to be on conflicting sides. This makes it highly unlikely that the arrestee will cooperate with the police on anything but a coercive basis. It’s much easier to NOT invoke the law, and invite someone to come to the police station for ‘debriefing’.
Max isn’t INSISTING on anything… yet. She’s trying to keep things friendly. But, investigation is a necessity, here. Even the comments section has buzzed about the apparent dangers of Pixel’s powers.
Why do people keep calling Krona “Pixel”?
Cause they are both members of the A-team, were both introduced recently, both appearing frequently since then, both have extremely unusual power sets and both having anime features. So both their names will be fresh enough in peoples’ minds, to use the names but have so many points of similarity that they might get mixed up.
Plus I probably contributed by doing that myself.
With her being a hacker, is easy to conflate the name Pixel with her, as they both pertain to computing.
What exactly is the difference between “Cooperate or I’ll insist” versus “I insist”?
OK, that’s rhetorical, there is no difference.
The cops aren’t responsible for proving crimes. (that’s the job of the courts)
In theory they need probable cause that you committed a crime or pose some sort of danger to yourself or others. In practice they can arrest you pretty much whenever they like as if you don’t cooperate they’ll charge you with resisting arrest, and if you do cooperate you’ll end up at the station waiting for your lawyer so still pretty much the same result as a justified arrest.
It’s the times when the cop doesn’t want to arrest you (there’s a fair amount of beurocracy at work behind the scenes and you can sue them if they do it in too brazenly a frivolous way) that you can pull the “am I free to go or am I under arrest?” move. they always have the “yes you’re under arrest” move in their pocket, but if they don’t think they have any charges they could make stick they usually won’t want to play it.
In this case Maxima has a report from a credible source that Korona did something vague to time that had unforeseen consequences. That’d pass muster for probable cause of an “unusual threat” making it Archon jurisdiction, and “posing a danger to herself or others” to justify an arrest.
Actually charging her with anything would likely be impractical as there’s no physical evidence due to time loop, and any defense lawyer with half a brain will be able to paint Sydney as an over-eager recruit with a comic book filled imagination who’s making things up to impress her CO, if there’s nothing else to back up her testimony (not to mention any secret supernatural ruling council that can’t rig a jury to keep one of it’s enforcers out of jail isn’t worthy of the name). So they’d need some way to evaluate Korona’s code which probably requires her cooperation and unless she’s foolish enough to outright say “nope” (rather than “sure, here’s all of it” while actually handing over just the non-incriminating bits.) they won’t be able to get her on obstruction or contempt of court either.
However in a situation like this a good cop will do what Maxima is, and bring Korona in so the specialists who have experience with this sort of thing can evaluate the actual danger and potentially help Korona know where the limits she should be respecting to avoid being dangerous (and therefore needing to be brought back in) actually are. If that requires an arrest to get her in that’s justified, but not the best case scenario.
Krona represents a very large and vague area of the law. Intent plays a big part, but so does competence. It needs to be determined how ‘safe’ she is, and make sure she’s trained properly….
Actually there’s nothing vague about it. It’s called mens rea and actus reus. To commit a crime, you must have both a guilty mind and make SOME action in furtherance of the mental state of the crime (ie, something in furtherance of a crime, even arguably some steps into the planning of a crime, like buying the components to build a bomb, but NOT merely having the knowledge of how to make one).
Krona has not shown either mens rea OR actus reus. It does NOT need to be determined how safe she is – it has to only be determined that she does not have criminal intent and has not taken any steps in committing a crime, both of which Maxima already knows she has not done. Especially since Maxima started off by THANKING Krona for her help. That shows tha Maxima already knows she doesn’t have the mens rea for committing a crime, let alone actus reus.
You are he only one talking about a crime: Kronachrome did perform an act that affected the very nature of time, an act she both admitted to performing, and that she did not fully understand what she was doing, that is what makes her dangerous and that is why she is being taking back to HQ where they have a group of smart people (and Dabbles) to have a look at her ‘code’ and help her to understand it, in the same way that Dabbles and Co are helping Sydney, the same help she herself offered (what credentials does she have to help Sydney when she doesn’t even fully understand her own abilities?)
By that logic, or lack thereof, Archon should force every member of the council to come back for wuestioning and rigorous testing. Affexting the nature of time is not a crime. At all. Theres no legal reason to even detain her and Maxima herself admitted Krona has no nefarious intent. Looking at her code could have been requested by having her come in later, voluntarily, not by making a strongarmed insistence wuth physical touch to restrain.
I will post more in response once I am home and not using a smartphone to type this.
Affecting the nature of time is not a crime? Seriously? No, of course you are, and that’s what’s so sad
So there’s an actual criminal statute on the books making time manipulation a crime? Or case law involving time manipulation that establishes precedence of it being a crime under an existing law?
Because if neither is the case, then it’s not a crime.
“I think it’s dangerous” or “I don’t like it” is not what makes something a criminal act.
You are forgetting a very important fact: Kronachrome herself admitted to the Time Shenanigans
+1
And do there is also the fact that Halo’s pip boy will have a recording of the events, including telemetary, which will make it extremely easy to prove, down to the second.
Actually, the whole “Simply being capable of destructive acts is not probable cause [in the USA] in our universe” thing isn’t 100% accurate…
The vast VAST majority of time, that’s true, but there are a (very) few exceptions that can (possibly) get you locked up forever simply for the way you are/what you can do. And it usually also doesn’t require a trial or offer forms of appeal.
Example: I actually have a friend with an auto-immune dissorder that makes her what’s known as “A Super Speader.” She can’t show signs of sickness, but she can carry and get others sick. Think: “Typhoid Mary.”
The C.D.C. has the authority to lock her away for ever (the technical term is “quarantine,” but the difference is small) if they so much as suspect she’s getting others sick (with something major.) They don’t even have to prove that she is getting people sick, because the test that tell if she’s a carrier don’t always work on her. They try their best to not do this, becasue they, like most people, don’t like human rights violations. But they can, legally, do this pretty much whenever they want.
There are other examples, but you don’t hear about them because they 1: are very VERY rarely used, 2: make people very uncomforatable when you talk about them (more so with the whole: USA is the “land of the free” thing…), 3: are some of the few times violating human rights is *technically* in the best interests of everyone.
AND I’M NOT SAYING ANY OF THIS SITS WELL WITH ME EITHER! It doesn’t. But this IS the way things are.
And expanding it to incluse supers isn’t unreasonable, even if it is unsettling.
Also, this ain’t our universe
Doesn’t matter. It’s still using the Constitution, based on what’s been said at the press conference, especially with Suzy News’s question.
Hopefully I can ease both you and your friend’s mind by correcting a misapprehension that you have. They only have that power whilst there is a threat to public health. Once a means is found to mitigate that, then they are obliged to release her.
Typhoid Mary did remain contagious until her dying day. Yet was released from quarantine. Her poor hygine standards and the fact that she was employed as a cook is what had caused the initial outbreaks. So she was released from quarantine provided that she gave assurances not to return to work as a cook, and to practice cautious hygene.
She failed to comply on both counts. Even going so far as to change her name when she decided to take up cooking again. Causing several more cases of typhoid, but moving on too quickly for it to be traced to her. Only getting caught when she was found at the centre of another major outbreak.
At this point, having proved that she was incapable of trust, and still had a reckless disregard for hygiene or the lives of others, they were entirely reasonable to keep her confined until she died.
Similarly, in 2014, when there was the Ebola outbreak, politicians, acting under the same misapprehension that you have, demanded that a nurse (Kaci Hickox), suspected of having Ebola be locked up, for the public good. The judge ruled against allowing that. Even though this was only a temporary measure, rather than indefinitely, there was no proven threat to public health, so it was not enforceable.
It was a little more than that. She truly did not believe that she was a typhoid carrier.
That is why she changed her name and took up cooking again. She thought they were wrong. Apparently it never dawned on her that “gosh, when I start cooking, people who EAT my cooking start dying, so maybe I am a carrier.”
Right up until her dying day, she still did not believe it.
Thank you for trying to easy my concerns, it’s very kind, but the condition she has, is actually the kind that is that serious.
You said: “They only have that power whilst there is a threat to public health. Once a means is found to mitigate that, then they are obliged to release her.”
You might have missed the part where I said: My friend shows no symtoms, and the tests don’t work on her. She shows both false possitives, and false negatives. There is no way to prove she has stopped being a threat to the public. If they ever take her in, there will never (ok, not *never*, but not in the forseeable future) be a time where they are mandated to release her. They likely will release her, because, as I said, they don’t like human rights violation, but they totally can hold her forever. (key word being: “Can” not “will.”)
They also don’t need to prove guilt. Needing to prove guilt if for law/cimes, not public safty. (This part is weird as some forms of danger to the public are ALSO illegal…) She wouldn’t be braking any law, she’s just a possible risk. It’s still sketchy to take her in without an outbreak of SOMETHING, but, since tests don’t work on her, she’s always at least a small public safty concern.
This all sounds wierd, I know, but she has a VERY rare condition. Something like 10-20 people on the PLANET have it. (It happens a bit more often then that, but most people who have it die before they are born, so…) This is not what you call “A normal situation.”
But, for the rest of the population, you’re correct! Can’t hold the rest of us forever, she’s just… special?
And again, thank you for the attept at comfort, and I hope this didn’t come off as… what’s the word… Condescending? I’m not trying saying your wrong (exactly), this is just a VERY edge case.
It is very interesting to know. Do note though that you are falling back into the trap of thinking that whilst there is the possibility of a risk that it automatically means quarantine will be imposed. That is what the politician was arguing for the suspected ebola patient. Which was thrown out in court. The threat must be reasonably established. Fail to do that and the authorities have no legal ground to hold her.
Importantly medical advice must be followed. The politician ignored the assessment of the experts that once she had been observed for 21 days, without showing symptoms, then she was deemed to be safe. Let us say that the doctors assess that your friend is a credible threat. The onus on them, as doctors, then becomes to either find a way to cure her or to find a way to return her to a normal life.
This was done with Typhoid Mary. I am sure smart doctors could find something appropriate to suggest. And whilst they were working on the practicalities society would be obliged to provide her with whatever creature comforts that would be practical.
One way of testing would be to ask for volunteers amongst terminally ill people and those on death row. That way even if she had a fatal disease they could expose subjects to her. If they contracted the disease then it is not a false positive. They will need to carry on working on a cure or a way of letting her back into society without risking others too much.
Whereas if a number are exposed and none come down with the disease, statisticians could assess how likely it was to be through chance. Not all diseases will infect all patients, so if it is a highly contagious disease it would not take very many volunteers for her to pass a point where they can declare her to be safe.
But let us say it goes the other way. Here are some options:
Issue her a biohazard suit, to be worn at all times, when in public. Provide her with an environmentally sealed vehicle, so that she does not need to use public transport. Require that anyone who enters her residence has suitable tests and/or quarantine period after potential exposure.
If your friend likes the countryside and small communities, she could have a home provided in a suitably isolated community. Potentially removing the restriction on wearing a suit, except for when going to the shops or the like..
A fairly sucky life. But it would not be the same as being stuck in an isolation ward, in hospital, for the rest of her life. And even if the public purse would not stretch to some of those options, then such would be a prime candidate for crowd funding. Nobody deserves prison-like restrictions if they are innocent of any crime.
Some of the above may be impractical or wishful thinking. However the principles remain as I said. I just hope that she manages to avoid catching anything too serious, so that this can remain hypothetical!
Er… I’m an attorney and yes, simply being capable of destructive acts is NOT probable cause. 100 percent not probable cause. There has to be some type of actual action in furtherance of a crime.
By the way, Pander, thought you might get a laugh out of this. Some friends and I were having a cookout, and one of my friends did a supply run to the grocery store.
According to autocorrect, I asked him to bring back a bag of attorney tots. (Are those legal in the state of Texas?) xD
Obviously, I meant tater tots, but autocorrect had a different idea.
Attorney tots, the food of choice for all lawyers. :)
Or maybe you actually wanted him to bring back a bunch of toddlers who had somehow passed the Bar. It’s very cruel though that you wanted them to be stuffed in a bag.
O.K., I worded that badly, sorry. I’m bad at lauguage.
Some of it is the difference between the layman term: “probable cause” and the legal term: “probable cause.” From a Legal standpoint this was not “probable cause.” You’re right, I’m wrong, my bad.
That said, I don’t think Smilr really meant it from the legal meaning. Smilr said: “For all intents and purposes she is placing Krona under arrest.” This sounded to me like Smilr reconised it wasn’t arrest in the legal sense, (as Maxima/ARC isn’t actually part of the police [or millitary for that matter, it’s a seperate organization from both]) but rather arrest in the layman sense.
There are a few forms of layman arrest that are not legal arrest. Such as Quarantine, or being forced into a mental health facility. (Some of these can result in legal arrest, which muddies the water.)
Smilr then, I think, implied you needed “probable cause” for this, and that “capable of destructive acts” is not “probable cause.” As it wasn’t the legal term “Arrest” it wouldn’t be the legal form of “probable cause,” but rather the layman form. And the layman form of “probable cause” isn’t always as strickt. (though it usually is.)
Though, I concead, maybe I miss understood Smilr, and they did mean it in the Legal sense. (Like I said, I’m bad at laguage, sorry.) In which case: Maxima and Arc-Swat (despite having “Swat” in the name) aren’t really police in the literal sense. Nor are they military. (ok, now I’m repeating myself… my bad… again.) So, the rules on how they arrest people are going to be different, for better, or for worse.
I am going to say she probably can make an official arrest being a supercop and all. It could be interesting to see what other Macros Krona has setup if she decided she didn’t want to go. “Cuff me sure go ahead, oops now your lungs are full of molten copper, probably should have told you that before hand”
Why? Why are people coming up with ways that simply highlight how dangerous he can be? o_O
Because of the fact that she has NOT done that. Signifying that she is NOT dangerous.
Except, they are saying she should be doing those things, to help her get away from things she ‘hasn’t done’
“I didn’t perform those robberies, and I will kill you painfully to prove my innocence!”
And yet she has not. It shows that Krona is a lot more responsible than all these people making suggestions.
For someone claiming to be so ‘smart’, you sure aren’t acting it
I hope this doesn’t start a rivalry between Archon (is this ok or do I have to write it in all caps?) and the Twilight Council.
There should be any problems: Maxi isn’t arresting Kronachrome, simply asking her to come back to HQ and get some of the smarties to check things out, which Kronachrome is aware needs to be done, also, Maxi did say she would be letting the Council know, probably on the way
Yeah, but some of them might not like it. I can see Gregor and Ingsol being cool about it, but I can also see Ravven and Azilus bitching about it.
I don’t know about that; Maxima is insisting, and has indicated that she’ll force the issue if necessary. That’s not a request; that’s arrest. “Come with me or I’ll make you come with me” is not giving Krona a choice in any way that matters. I believe Maxima has the authority to make an arrest in this case — the arguments about “reckless disregard” are pretty solid — but calling it a request is a polite fiction.
And it’s going to cause problems with the Council, or at least certain factions of it. Some are looking for an excuse already; to some, this is going to look like the thin end of a wedge. But there’s going to be trouble, and this is a *bad* time for it, given that it looks like Archon and the Council are going to need to work together against a very powerful enemy who has already caught them largely flat-footed.
Which is to day: “The suspense is terrible; I hope it’ll last.”
Gah. *Say*. “Which is to *say*”. Ugh. I would pay several dollars of my very own money to be able to edit typos in my posts.
kickstarter campaign!!
That in itself may damp any trouble. Quite a few of that number realize, no doubt, that they got caught with their pants down and that without Archon, they would have been toast.
Maybe, maybe not.
Kronakrome appears to be an individual on a council of communities, and somewhat aloof from the whole thing to boot.
If she doesn’t have any particular friends on the council they might decide that she should have been a super anyway (they juts didn’t know those were a thing when she joined) and let archon deal with their “internal matter” rather than risk conflict with the government over her. After all the council isn’t publicly known or a real government. They might not want to pull that thread.
Most likely she’ll juts have access to the council’s deep pockets and experienced lawyers if it comes to a trial. And the council will make it clearer that joint operations come with immunity for their enforcers actions during those operations if archon wants to continue having joint operations.
Also, the Council only exists on the good graces of the US Government, or at least the US Branch of the Council
I wouldn’t be surprised if Maxima asks Krona for a breast reduction, upset definitely, but not surprised. I can also see (and want to see) Sydney or Peggy asking for boob enlargements, heck maybe Dabbler will ask for some sexy things for her own amusement
I don’t think Maxima has quite that much dysphoria going on with her own body that she’d want to alter it that extensively. Maybe asking for some indestructible clothing, but not full-on body-de-augmentation. She’d ask for less golden skin first, but who knows what sort of can of worms that would open.
Yes, Maxi doesn’t have a problem with how she looks, she just has a problem with how people judge her on her looks, but that’s not something that can be easily fixed, certainly not via body modification (and while it is typical that the body of a Super is ‘adjusted’ based on The Ideal Form, some people have that form naturally even girls who started out like young Maxi, puberty is a random bitch high as a kite who has lost the instruction manual)
Maxi needs her own sigil, programmed to make her physique less noticeable.
She seems to have at least SOME problem with her appearance based on what DaveB has said in the past about how she had to choose between ‘beach bunny’ and ‘muscular beach bunny’ – plus the complaint about her ‘stupid boobs getting in the way.’ Although that might have been just internal monologue joking. Also the fact that she DOES have a problem with how her skin looks given all she’s gone through in the past to try to cover that up (and failed).
I’m sure this has come up before, but the style difference between Krona and Maxima’s eyes is especially pronounced in the last panel. It feels like they’re two different species.
Also, Kronachrome’s pupils are dilated to pinpoints due to the proximity of Maxi’s Golden Globes, also, Maxi tends to have her eyes half-lidded most of the time and Kronachrome is usually wide-eyed (but not always for either of them, can see them both with ‘swapped’ eye expression last page)
Did peggy bleach her hair?
It does look weirdly pale in that panel. I desaturated the whole scene a little because that happens to our color perception at night, and Peggy’s hair is a paler shade than Pixel’s fur. It’s probably a combination of the desaturation and proximity to Pixel. I maybe should have left the saturation alone for her hair.
No, Peggy just isn’t as ‘pink’ as the Pixel Panther standing behind her
Maxima is Worried about a Krona Trigger situation
Well played, Travel through time, lose your luggage.
Also, Maxima’s glorious golden gazongas are very strong,
I assume her whole body is strong. I like the idea of Max being able to destroy a building with them like wrecking balls, or Hiro breaking concrete with his erection. I would totally watch an anime like show with superheros but its slice of life. The sexy situations in the show would be hilarious.
Maxima appears to be way, way out of line with Krona. And the Council. She is in effect kidnapping her, and/or detaining her without a warrant. And insisting on “looking over” her code is a violation of her privacy. One which it appears she can simply ignore, unless other people can just use her reality hack interface without her permission or cooperation.
And this also seems to be at odds with Maxima’s earlier statements about Supers to the press. Not requiring any kind of registration or investigation and cataloguing of their abilities, but just warning them that illegal use of their powers would be taken very seriously.
Were I Krona just as soon as I had a spare moment Maxima would no longer either remember this conversation or have any interest in me whatsoever. Failing that capability Maxima would simply no longer have any super powers at all, so she could no longer bully me with her threats from the position of simple physical superiority (“Don’t make me cuff you.”). And I’d be informing the Council that I would no longer be working with anyone from Archon.
In Marvel or DC comics this sort of arrogance would result in a (non-fatal of course, and probably short lived, but perhaps leading to a large change in the relationship between the two groups) battle royale between the two groups. And frankly it should here as well. But Krona is here alone, away from any support and surrounded by her new-enemies, so that can’t happen until she gets some muscle of her own as backup.
Cops don’t need a warrant to arrest someone.
There is reasonable suspicion of a dangerous activity here, and Maxima, with the authority of the Archon act, acts on that suspicion.
There’s also no actual arrest here. Just a very strong insistence. She’s not in any trouble, they just want to check out her code, and help her improve it.
Actually cops need probable cause to arrest, not reasonable suspicion. They need reasonable suspicion to stop them. If Krona refuses, Maxima needs probable cause, which she does not have since no crime wascommitted. Which is anither thing. There has to be reasonable suspicion OF A CRIME. There wasno crime at all. Except by Anvil arguably for destruction of property.:)
Also saying strong insistence is using semantics. what Maxima is doing is still illegal and unconstituional if Krona believes she cannot leave when she committed no crine. Maxima is making an implicit threat when she held Krona’s shoulder while making the “insistent request”… legally it would be seen as false imprisonment if Krona reasonably believes she cannot leave.
Stop talking about crime when no one else is!
Playing with time and resetting local conditions is a dangerous activity
Less dangerous than what maxima has done, or Anvil, considering nothing bad happened as a result of Krona’s actions. And I bring up crime because archon is to protect people from extraordibary ILLEGAL threats. If soneone wants to use their ability to turn matter into energy to mske billions for energy conglomerates they cant get detained even if their ability could conceivably be used to kill as well. Detain anyone of above average strength since they could conceivably beat up someone of weaker strength. You cant single soneone out for their mere existence if they have not committee an illegal act. Archon are essentially cops. Cops do not have the ability to make up the law. Especially a new agency like archon which is going to be under immense scrutiny about how constitutional they are if they pull stuff like that
And you know that, for a fact, that Kronachrome managed to stop what ever was happening when she had no full understanding of what she did? If she messed up something when initiating the sequence, could it not be possible she messed some up in attempting to stop it?
Kronachrome has shown she can do all that, the fact she can reset time to before it happened does not stop it from happening in the first place, proof of that is the fact that Sydney remembers everything that happened, and everyone outside the zone remembers everything that happened, the only people who have no memory is the one who initiated the loop and Pixelicious (Harem may or may not, and that depends on when she next ‘syncs’ up with her ‘sisters’)
While true in general, there are a huge range of circumstances which prevent them from doing so without any justification. And Maxima’s justifications here are incredibly weaksauce.
This situation is analogous to a State Police force inviting along some FBI agents to investigate a potential drug kingpin base, and one of them deciding that they didn’t like the kind of guns the other was using and making arrests based on that reason alone. This would never, ever happen. And yet it just did. Krona wasn’t just wandering around changing reality, she was doing so while working with Archon as a member of the Council against an enemy who had just attacked a room full of members of both organizations. And simultaneously attacked a couple of other locations of the Council.
“Don’t make me cuff you” is a threat. Threats are not “very strong insistence.” This is an arrest in every particular except for actually cuffing Krona, and that has already been threatened.
A ‘threat’ made only after Kronachrome offered to use her powers (to alter the very reality of Bodie’s jacket), after Maxi asked her not to, and it wasn’t a ‘threat’, more of a joke to defuse the situation
I do not think she is entirely out of line with Krona, but in your case, your third paragraph would fall exactly into arrest-able parameters with official charges being made.
The whole situation could also end up with Krona meeting new allies who can help her better understand her powers and avoid future mishaps.
There are situations already where certain law enforcement authorities can search your belongings at random and in some cases I think, if you have a computer, can go through it. All perfectly legal and without the need for a warrant or formal charges. Border crossings, air-ports, some federal buildings, etc.
I think part of Archon’s roles will eventually include formal education courses for extraordinary individuals, especially those new to their powers. The girl may not exactly be new to her powers, but she doesn’t fully understand them either, which is where the danger comes in. So far she has shown to not be a malicious person, but what if she oops and accidentally levels a city. Civilians in that situation will not care if it was malicious or not or an accident or on purpose. So I see Max bringing her in to answer some question, have her stuff examined, and perhaps a couple of ‘how not to destroy the universe’ classes as a good thing, for her and the world.
The real potential issue here is the Council. Is she a US Citizen or would she be considered a foreign agent here with permission. What is the potential diplomatic ramifications, or does Archon have global authority?
Police cannot search people at random. There must be reasonable suspicion for that, and it mustbe a surface patdown only, and probable cause to detain them. To search anything that is not in plain view, a warrant is needed exceot in exigent circumstances. This is not an exigent circumstance.
For anyone who argues “but they do at airports and in government buildings”, 1) that is security/TSA, not police, 2) you can opt out by not entering the building in the first place.
The same sort of reasoning can easily apply to anyone who owns a high powered rifle. Or any of the “Modern Sporting Rifle” brands and models which are so heavily favored by those persons who go postal and shoot up a nursery or a park. But in reality is simply does not. “They have the potential to do harm” is never a valid reason to arrest someone. Everyone who owns a firearm or a knife or who drives a car has the potential to do horrific damage if they so choose. You can’t arrest someone just because they are driving a 2 ton car that if driven into a crowd could kill dozens of people. Even if they have 8 points on their license (In VA at least you start with 12 points. Collect enough moving violations and your license can be pulled by the state. Go long enough without any offenses and you collect a few bonus points).
To carry the Modern Sporting Rifle analogy further, while you might like for all owners of these weapons (people with superpowers) to be fully trained in their use, the fact of the matter is that in almost all states there is no training required for firearm ownership. And while I’m not conversant with all of the various state and other municipalities laws on the subject, the very few that I have heard about were laughably simple. As in a 5 minute speech given in a semi-classroom environment, with no actual hands on training in actually using the firearm.
Yes, but everyone who owns a firearm or a knife or drives a car doesn’t have the potential to wipe out the universe, do they? Krona DOES potentially have that ability. Even SHE admits she doesn’t know what kind of safeties (if any) are built into her powers. And that’s the entire point of having Dabbler examine her.
Sorry, something got left out, and I can’t edit, so…
“Krona DOES potentially have that ability.” And it’s plausible she could do it entirely by accident, because by her own admission, she doesn’t fully know how her powers work.
Remember Typhoid Mary? She hadn’t actually committed a crime (although people got sick and died because she was an asymptomatic carrier of typhoid). But they locked her up anyway, because she was an imminent threat to public health. Maybe it’s just me, but “could accidentally delete the universe” sounds like an imminent threat to public health!
Hyperbole does not a point make. Is there any difference to an individual if they are killed, the planet is destroyed, or the universe is destroyed? No, they are still dead.
You can’t lock up everyone who owns a firearm just because they might kill you or someone else.
And you can’t lock up someone who owns a banana and claim that it’s legal for you to do so because the banana might be used to blow up the universe. Oh, you say you are completely unaware how a banana might be used to blow up the universe? Exactly. Maxima is completely unaware if Krona can use her powers to blow up the universe. Not that arresting someone for a thought crime is every justified, but in this case it is an illegal arrest without even having a rational motivation behind it.
Yeah, and Kronachrome hasn’t even had the equivalent of that five minute speech, this is the invitation to that speech she never got
How would Archon have someone who can understand the programming code to the universe better than Krona, it’s sole user and possible designer?
Krona might be God :)
I disagree that Maxima is out of line, for reasons several people have stated, but I don’t think it really matters…
… because Krona just recently had an “oh-shit-what-am-I-capable-of” moment and WANTS her powers carefully inspected.
I don’t think the Marvel Comics way of heroes fighting each other is a good model.
Thank you, Maxima. Now, may I suggest finding a responsible hyper-engineer to build you a multiversal portal so you can bring a certain Barry Allen in for an identical line of questioning? :P
I think the main issue here is less, “Omg she is dangerous, lets bring her in.” and more “Omg she is dangerous because she doesnt know what she is doing. Lets bring her in so we can all go over her abilities with a fine tooth comb and figure out how to NOT risk all of creation whenever she throws together a script.”
Yep, She’s not evil, but she’s untrained, and her abilities could be extreme. It’s either train her, or put her under heavy restriction…
In the USA, where this story is set, the Constitution simply does not allow any law enforcement agency to detain or arrest a person simply because they own a firearm or a knife or drive a vehicle which is capable of inflicting a lot of damage at any time. If laws are attempted to be passed where it is suddenly legal to do so simply because a person is born with superpowers, or like Maxima and Sydney comes into them later in life, then we’re going to have a very sharp turn from the typical “Almost like our modern culture, just with superheroes” kind of story.
“Train them or put them under heavy restriction” is something that, love it or hate it, the gun lobbyists have fought against very successfully in this nation. I would bet that the ACLU and other organizations would come out strongly against this kind of “You are different and I fear you, so I think it’s just fine and dandy to take away your rights even though you haven’t done anything wrong” knee-jerk reactions.
Guns (superpowers, knives, cars) don’t kill people, people kill people. Guns (superpowers, knives, cars) just make the cases where people decide to kill a lot of people at one time a lot more horrible. That is simply one of the facts of life. We all live in a state of trust in the rule of law. We all need to feel that our rights will not be taken away just because someone else is afraid of us or what we might possibly do at some unspecified point in the future.
Maybe so, but do believe that people attempting to get a drivers license have to pass some sort of a test? Is that not correct?
Yes, weapons don’t kill people, people kill people, and last looked, Kronachrome is a people, a people with untested powers that can alter the very nature of reality
I’m glad you left the punctuation off of your last sentence. Here, I’ll finish it for you:
Krona is a person, a person with untested powers who can alter the very nature of reality and who has not committed a crime.
And no one is even mentioning a crime, well, no one except you and Pander
Even in D&D, “Drow” and “Dark Elf” are two separate entities. Dark Elf came first. They used to live on the surface along side Light Elves, but the two races didn’t get along very well. After a war of extermination which the Dark Elves lost, what small band of survivors remained fled underground into “The Underdark,” where exposure to Adamantium radiation turned their hair white, their eyes purple, and their skin various shades of obsidian, gave them innate magic resistence, and all sorts of nifty powers.. as long as they stay down there. Having to compete with the Umber Hulks, Beholders, Mind Flayers, and all other assorted nasties, they turned to Lloth for protection, AND THAT’S when the vast majority of the population became assholes, BECAUSE LLOLTH WILLS IT! The spider queen keeps their society together only through social darwinism and her evil, malevolent will.
In particular, it’s the Drow Priestesses who are the major arseholes, everyone else are just minor pricks :P
I always just thought that “Dark” or “Black” referenced their motivations. Depicting them as dark-skinned always seemed racist to me.
I’ll never understand that. If you are dark skinned, and I am describing you, so that someone who hasn’t seen you can know what you look like… It makes sense to mention you are dark skinned. It’s a visible physical attribute. I’m not saying you are better or worse for it, I’m not treating you differently than I would anyone else. If you were light skinned, I’d say that as well.
So how is describing some one or some groups physical appearance racist?
I could be wrong, so T-Ray can correct me if I am, but I got the impression that T-Ray was saying that the sources for Dark/Black Elves (Svartalfen – Norse et al. Mythology) likely mean dark/black in terms of describing either motivations or preferred dwellings, and not an actual physical description based upon the color of their skin, and thus it is racist of modern people who are interpreting said sources and drawing pictures to represent said Dark/Black Elves as being black skinned instead of potentially having a full range of skin tones due to the ethical/preferential leanings of a people. While the source materials vary (massively) on whether or not the Svartalfen were evil/criminal/ethically shady, to my knowledge there is almost no variation on their depiction via skin color when compared to their Alfen brethren, the only fully constant difference between an Alf (elf) and a Svartalf is that Alfen called a light and sunny realm (commonly called Alfheim) home, whereas the Svartalfen called a darker, usually subterranean realm (variously Svartalfheim or Nifleheim) home and often were thought to share said realm with the dwarves.
TL;DR: I think Nssheepster is correct in a very general sense, but incorrect here simply due to a contextual error (ie, misinterpretation of T-Ray’s comment) on either Nssheepster’s or my own part, depending on what T-Ray was actually saying.
The few depictions of Svartalfar from very early artwork have them as jet-skinned, but this could be a limitation of the artistic media being used.
Hel was quite precisely described as having a face being half-white and half-black. As her realm typically had associations with being “underground” (tricky in the norse mythology, since realms are both separate and coexisting simultaneously with the realm of men) and the usual association of alfar and the underground, the bi-chromatic dichotomy of alfar skin tones might have some association / reflection / synergy with Hel. Then again, maybe not.
Generally “Dark” Elves has been used in so many things now, I’ve no idea which variety T-Ray was referencing. In general, though… If they are portrayed as dark skinned, or not… Either way, it shouldn’t matter. Racism is treating people differently based on their race… Describing their race as it is, isn’t racist. In the case of a fantasy race, you can basically make it whatever you want, so if you want them to be dark skinned, and describe them as such… it’s still not racist.
Yes, Psychie, that’s what I meant. But as has been expounded at great length, it may just be me.
This I think is exactly right. There are several mythologies and fantasy settings where “dark elves” are physically indistinguishable from their elven cousins. The differences are social/cultural and you could meet one of either group and not know which one they were a member of until they did something to convince you one way or the other.
Even worse, depending on the artist, drow have been depicted as jet-skinned, charcoal-skinned, and dark-brown skinned on different resources. Gygax’s original notes had them as jet-skinned (read: like svartalfar, his source material) but what he wrote in the modules was “black-skinned”, adding to the confusion.
Sometimes, word choice really matters. Well, insifar as D&D “really matters”.
‘Jet’ is typically a black colour, an almost pure black, there is only a small percentage of humans who could be described as having that skin-tone, most ‘black’ people are, at best, a dark brown
So uh… is whats-her-tusk still down there in the main warehouse? Why is everyone just chilling? Where did the lady in the first panel come from, was she rescued?
As we saw 3 pages ago https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2496
They have sweeped the warehouse, and she’s gone.
Aha, thanks! I must have been… distracted… during that dialogue.
I like the assumption that whoever wrote the universe’s code did an excellent job with error correcting code such that even someone like Krona who could be said to have limited if not outright full adimistrator permissions cannot mess up the whole system with a bad piece of code. A system’s code so well written and optimized that it either rejects the bad coding or figures out what it was meant to do and does it in a way that won’t harm the rest of the system. If only Windows, Mac, and Linux worked like that.
That may be the case, but such coding would not necessarily protect against errors which say, wipe out an entire city, or eliminate the knowledge of how to utilize electricity, and products of such knowledge. May not destroy the universe, but as far as the human species and civilizations as we know it, utterly disastrous.
“Localized disruptions to network function may occur, but we don’t anticipate network system failure. You may experience delays and/or lag; please exercise patience with any given input.”
That leads to an interesting idea. How many of the really interesting tidbits and natural phenomena are really slick and cool coding and how many are just seriously awkward and badly written.
Any thoughts or predictions?
This entire thread reminds me of the Well World series by Jack Chalker. Rather than posting a wall of text, I’ll just give you a Wikipedia link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_World_series
The TL;DR version, however, is that the entire universe is governed by mathematical equations; the Well World is a planet-sized, reality-shaping computer that creates an artificial universe layered on top of the much smaller, original Markovian one. By changing the equations, you can change reality.
Maybe she can’t code at all, and her godpowers just manifest as code?
One of my favorite fantasy novels has several scenes with “dark elves”, aka evil elves (and refers to them mainly by the elvish word anyway), and it doesn’t explicit say what color their skin is. The description as I understood it, in fact, was that they look nearly identical to regular elves in fact, but with all the grace and beauty subtly warped and twisted, which I thought was really cool Much more interesting than just saying “everything with Dark Skin is evil!”.
Sounds like DragonLance: on Krynn, ‘Dark Elves’ are simply regular Elves who have been banished from the rest of the Elven societies, they may have been born Qualinesti or Silvanesti (or even Wild Elves), but for some act have found themselves exiled
eeehhh
this is iffy
no Organisation like the Twilight Council would ever tolerate what Maxima does here, she actually claims jurisdiction over members of the Twilight Council
a member of their Special Forces(or equivalent) nonetheless
this is like Maxima seeing some Chinese super doing reality twisting stuff and taking her back to the base, just cause he/she is on US soil
Krona being a US Citizen doesnt matter here, the Twilight Council is surely an International Organization which is seperated from the concerns of human nations, otherwise it would be unable to function in any meaningful way
WHAT maxima would have to do here is to make a request to council for cooperation so they can mutually make sure that Krona doesnt mess reality up
so what maxima actually did here is pretty crazy, and doesnt mesh with her competent rule-following persona.
a real organisation like the twilight council would threaten to terminate any cooperation with ARC, or worse, after such an incident
Read some of the above comments. This is within Archon’s authority. The law which created Archon gave them authority over any extraordinary threats. Max could, if she chose, arrest Krona for reckless endangerment of every living being in existence. But the point of this isn’t to place Krona under arrest, but to deal with the fact that she is fiddling with the basic fundamental code of reality without understanding what she’s doing. She’s a baby playing with completely unlocked controls for a nuke, except even that analogy falls short of how potentially disasterous her situation is. Max wants to fix her lack of understanding, both so she won’t be a danger to all of everything any more, and to make her more effective once she actually knows what she’s doing.
its still the wrong way to go about it, realistically she’d have to go through the council
asking permission after the fact is just not how you’d deal with a friendly supranational organisation
it creates enemies and causes friction needlessy
the legality of it is of no concern here (and I give you that under their law what Maxima did would be legal)
I somehow doubt that the Twilight Council has based their relationship with ARC on US legal stuff when their whole reason of their existence is to remain undetected (is that covered by Law?)
rather they likely have a mutual understanding on how to interact with each other, and the Twilight Council giving free reign over the agents to ARC is simply unbelievable, no matter if its the law
Why should she have to go through the Council? It’s a matter that concerns Kronachrome, and she’s not forcing her, just suggesting that, due to that whole ‘reset’ thing, not to mention ‘hacking Sydney’s bladder’, it might be an idea to have Dabbles and Arc-Light check out what she can do, to prevent something nasty happening (like permanently stopping the function of the bladder, or getting a localized part of the planet stuck in a permanent loop, that could eventually destroy the entire planet)
“Why should she have to go through the Council?”
Because Krona is a member OF the Council, and this was on a joint venture to find Sciona between Archon and the Council. That’s why.
“It’s a matter that concerns Kronachrome,”
Who is a member of the Council
“and she’s not forcing her,”
She is forcing her. The hand on the shoulder and her ‘strong insistence’ language would legally fall under an unlawful detainment. The language about the cuffs imply that she is being essentially arrested for her mere existence of her powers, not for having DONE anything illegal.
“due to that whole ‘reset’ thing,”
Not illegal to save someone else’s life.
“not to mention ‘hacking Sydney’s bladder’,”
Sydney didn’t make a complaint about it.
And as for helping Sydney for the ‘pee’ need, then you might as well make it illegal to give someone an antacid for their heartburn also.
“it might be an idea to have Dabbles and Arc-Light check out what she can do”
Yes, but not by insisting they come with them. Maxima could have just as easily just asked if she could come so they could learn more about her powers, WITHOUT the hand on the shoulder, the language of insisting she come (where there was no choice to say no) or anything like that. And if Krona didn’t want to go, and Maxima forces her to go, that’s just a police state at that point.
Kronachrome is an individual member of a faction within that Council, and Maxi will be informing them of where she has taken her, and why
The hand on the shoulder is simply ‘pay attention to what I am about to say’
No, it’s not illegal to save someone’s life, but blowing up a building to do so still requires you to answer a few questions (and performing CPR without a medical license can get you sued, by the very person you saved)
Altering someone’s biology is no where near the same as handing someone an antacid, specially when the person can still choose not to take it
Pull you fucking head in: Maxima forcing her to go is a police state? Maybe you should lay off the hard stuff and have your paranoia looked at, you are as bad as that loser Danny Douche from APB who killed people (including the Mayor) because the police were getting better tools to catch criminals and stop cyber scum like him
“Kronachrome is an individual member of a faction within that Council,”
Bills of Attainder are unconstitutional for both individuals AND groups, AND groups that are composed of one individual. It’s unconstitutional, you gotta deal with that fact.
“and Maxi will be informing them of where she has taken her, and why”
Doing something illegal, then informing them after the fact is the height of hubris. Why shouldnt the Council, which existed FIRST, start insisting that supers NOT be public, and start a pogrom of exterminating any supers who DO go public? Aside of course from how many on both side that might die as a result. Why do you think Archon gets to tell the Council what to do? They have no rights over the Council at all beyond what Pixel and Zephan have as MEMBERS on the council.
“The hand on the shoulder is simply ‘pay attention to what I am about to say’”
I wasn’t aware you were a mind-reader. Also, when that hand can prevent you from moving away, and can incinerate you, and coupled with an insistence that she go with them to their HQ, it’s not just ‘pay attention’ anymore.
“No, it’s not illegal to save someone’s life, but blowing up a building to do so still requires you to answer a few questions”
The funny thing about this is Krona’s one of the few people here who did NOT have a hand in blowing up the building or causing forest fires. Sydney, Maxima, Anvil, Hiro, and Peggy on the other hand, were DIRECTLY involved in destroying the building, and the surrounding area by acting arguably QUITE recklessly (to varying degrees) with their powers and/or ordinance. Krona, on the other hand, caused no damage whatsoever to anyone except herself getting knocked off the building because of Sydney’s orb skill set blocking her vision when running, since Sydney decided to freeze for a WAY long time.
“(and performing CPR without a medical license can get you sued, by the very person you saved)”
Actually no it can’t. Performing CPR without a medical license cannot get you successfully sued. That’s a legal myth, actually, made popular by fiction and Hollywood. In fact, almost every state in the country has Good Samaritan laws specifically because of people not realizing that, so that someone who is ignorant of the law won’t get prosecuted for trying to save someone else’s life with CPR just because they’re not a doctor. The only way you can get sued for trying to save someone is if you prevent someone ELSE from saving that person, and then don’t try to save them. In that case you’re going to be sued not for failing to save them, but for preventing someone ELSE there from trying to save them (for example, a child is drowning, and you tell another person to go get help while you swim out to get the child… but when the other person leaves, you don’t bother swimming out because you can’t swim and the child dies as a result. THEN you can be sued. If you swim out, bring the child in, perform CPR but you’re too late to save him/her – or you do save him/er but there’s brain damage as a result – you will not be successfully sued if you acted prudently.
Please learn the law before arguing it.
“Altering someone’s biology is no where near the same as handing someone an antacid, specially when the person can still choose not to take it”
Actually what Krona did is actually even LESS invasive than handing someone an antacid. It’s more like getting someone to laugh by telling a joke, or scaring them out of the hiccups. Because there was literally nothing done to them to alter their biochemistry in any medically invasive way, even so much as an antacid. It just paused the need to pee for a little while.
By the same logic, reminding someone about waterfalls and dripping faucets when theyreally wants to pee and is holding it in, until they wind up peeing their pants is also not invasive or criminal.
“Pull you fucking head in- Maxima forcing her to go is a police state? Maybe you should lay off the hard stuff and have your paranoia looked at,”
I always know I’m winning an argument when the other person starts swearing and insulting … seriously man, this is just an internet argument. Don’t turn it into a flame war.
“you are as bad as that loser Danny Douche from APB who killed people (including the Mayor)”
First, I have no idea who Danny Douche is, or what APB is other than a video game from the 1980s.
Second, cool it on the insults. It’s making you look immature and hotheaded. You seem to do this to a LOT of people on this comment board for this strip. It’s beneath you. Be an adult.
Third, making a coherent argument that what Maxima is doing is an illegal use of her authority (not to mention a STUPID move from a diplomatic standpoint, and also from a standpoint of getting Krona to be compliant in the long-term) does not equate me to a murderer, and you really need to cut it out.
“because the police were getting better tools to catch criminals and stop cyber scum like him”
Even when police get better tools to catch criminals, they still nevertheless need to follow the law and allow for a person’s constitutional rights. One thing does not mean the other no longer applies.
Yeah, and they were following the law
You continue to show zero understanding in basic comprehension, there has been nothing you have said to back up anything you claim
Actually, it isn’t that clear cut that they do have that right. Remember, the only part of the law that specifically affects supers is the part about vigilantism. (Comic 145)
And they very clearly stated that having powers wasn’t a crime and you didn’t have to register.
So unless Krona has committed a crime, they can’t hold her for very long under questioning. And she has no legal obligation to cooperate.
And any trial runs the risk of exposing things that both sides seem to want to keep quiet.
She altered the universe in a way that she didn’t understand as well as she thought she did, which then panicked her because the after-effects could have destroyed it if the observed results had been caused by a slightly different error. Accidentally unravelling the fabric of reality could result in considerable property damage and loss of life. That’s kinda a strong case for reckless endangerment?
Pretty certain that causing even a small temporal rift on the outskirts of a town could make it harder to keep the full range of things that beings can do or be under wraps, too, so the Council would probably be all for Krona getting some error-checking help and perhaps guidance into how else she can safely and discretely use her powers.
Yeah, but she would also be fully in her rights to arrest a member of the chinese super team for the same reason. The Twilight Council, much like China, are a political entity. Which makes messing with their members inherently iffy. They presumably have some pre-establsihed diplomatic immunity or some sort of deal with the government/ARC which is what makes arresting one of their members for using the powers they are on the council for having inherently problematic.
Only if that member of the Chinese Super Team entered the US or (crap, forgot the word, but basically places like Guam or Embassies)
And no one is being arrested, Maxi is simply asking Kronachrome to return with them to base to have her abilities checked out, because she is a risk in her current state to everyone in the universe, and that’s something not even Kronachrome wants
Soil, that was the word was looking for, with or without permission from the US Government, setting foot on US Soil places your foot (and the rest of you) within their jurisdiction and places you as answerable to any breakage of the laws (they tend to be called ‘laws of the land’ for a reason), and even diplomats aren’t immune if their own government views their actions as being a potential headache
No, Guesticus, I’ve seen you use this argument several times already and Maxima is making a threat in the most polite of terms. She’s saying “”Please come with us and let us examine the most personal of your abilities and tell you how you may use them, or else I’ll make you.” It’s the old “we can do this the easy way or the hard way, your choice. But we will do this, like it or not.” And that’s way outside the rules, even if inside the law. What’s right is not always legal, and what’s legal is not always right.
well Krona did commit the most extreme case of “Reckless Endangerment” possible, considering the backlash of power could potentially cause the entire universe to become a temporal singularity which in turn would wipe out all other planes of existence and dimensions, not to mention time itself, this is, for all intents and purposes a crime that falls directly into what Archon was created to deal with and Krona knows it, heck the council knows it, given the circumstances getting help to ensure that she does not cause such a risk again is not only warranted but the best cause of action, considering the only viable alternative would be the same as when dealing with Vehemence, namely permanently remove the potential threat, as risking the life of everyone in every reality everywhere and anywhere (past present and future) is something that legally speaking Maxima simply CANNOT do unless she want to commit a series crimes herself, Dereliction of Duty and Reckless Endangerment of the same scale as what Krona just did being chief among them.
Could an evil version of Mr Fantastic completely disregard all foreign laws by simply stretching his upper body into other countries then?
technically it’s not disregarding foreign law, as most often the law states you may not ‘set foot’ in their country without permission
The author is free to write his story however he likes, but defining a member of an associated group who is working with you by request as an “extraordinary threat” is an incredibly broad and sweeping abuse of power.
Imagine we were in court right now, with Maxima attempting to justify her arrest of Krona. And yes, “I insist you return with us to the base,” “don’t make me cuff you,” and laying hands on Krona while making either of those statements make this an arrest, regardless of whether they actually cuff her or not.
Maxima: She possesses great power, I had no choice but to arrest her!
Attorney for Krona: You also possess great power. Who shall arrest you?
Maxima: I am a duly appointed member of Archon, and dealing with extrodinary threats is our mandate and duty!
Attorney for Krona: Who defines what a threat is? Krona was not harming anyone when you arrested her, was she? She was not threatening anyone, was she? No, in fact she was assisting you against an extraordinary threat. Do you typically arrest those whom you have asked to assist you?
I could go on, but I think the point is made well enough. Krona hadn’t done anything wrong. She was helping Archon, and/or Archon was helping the Council. Simply possessing great power does not make her an “extraordinary threat” or subject to summary arrest, intimidation, and invasion of privacy. Even if Maxima thinks so.
Actually, Kronachrome is an ‘extraordinary threat’, because her powers are extraordinary (unless you can prove that being able to alter the very fabric of reality is ordinary), and the fact she doesn’t fully understand how it works make it a threat
You seem to believe “I insist you return with us to the base” and “don’t make me cuff you” happened at the same time, they did not, the insistence happened in panel five, and the mention of cuffing happened in panel seven, by which time Maxi had let go
You are so stupid it is a wonder you can type.
Krona’s position as part of the Semper Vigilantis is roughly equivalent to someone working for the UN General Assembly in a job that grants diplomatic status. Some of those people are US citizens, many aren’t, and some of those (around 100) are commissioned military officers in non-US nations (for instance those co-ordinating peace-keeping ops – the current senior officer is a Uraguayan Lt General). But whoever they are, if they step outside the (extraterritorial, just like an embassy) UN facilities and start waving a gun around, they can fully expect to be arrested (if they’re lucky). Someone may get them out of jail under diplomatic immunity, but that may take a while.
Krona’s ‘crime’ is a little more subtle than waving a gun about, as Maxima is taking issue with a potential capability rather than an actual one. The closest approximation that pops to mind is the FBI confiscating John Aristotle Phillips term-paper on how to build a nuclear weapon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Aristotle_Phillips. The Council might look askance at what Maxima did, but only until they think about the potential consequences of what Krona was doing. At that point they’re likely to realise Arc Light has much better capabilities for analysing what she’s up to than they do, and say “No, really, you keep her.” Pixel is an existing precedent for people who would normally fall under the Council working for Archon.
actually Kronas Situation would be more akin to US and Afghan Special Forces storming an Al Qaeda Hideout, Krona then using a Thermobaric Grenade and the Afghans afterwards arresting her to make sure she wont use a nuclear grenade the next time
Krona and the other Semper Vigilantes were brought along as a combatants, so them using their powers can’t be an issue
Home.made thermobaric as opposed to common manufactured one and restraining her to insure she isn’t carrying one that will go off when jostled in her pocket
The Council exists with the government’s blessings on the condition that their members limit crimes against its citizens. It’s a “devil you know” situation. The Council may get a little butt hurt about this but Maxima is okay weathering it considering the potential risk Krona might pose.
Does that also apply to the non-humans on it? As a human government having the right to just ignore a non-human government by virtue of ‘There is more of us’ is…worrying.
The Council is not a government
Says who?
Says DaveB
DaveB, the obvious solution to the clothing problem seems to be to have Harem do a quick clothing run for Max and Hiro. Even with pickup time on the far end it should take her more than a minute or two, and clothes should be well within her weight limit if she could teleport an anti-materiel rifle around. Id there a reason why they haven’t done that, aside from “it’s funnier this way?”
Well it IS funnier that way. :-)
The real reason is that Harem hasn’t volunteered and Maxima is technically decent so she thinks making a further issue of it would make her look self conscious. She is self conscious about it obviously, she’s just trying not to appear that way.
Also if Max is super honest with herself, she likes getting mad at people for oggling.
Also, Maxi cold probably fly back to base super fast if it was really a problem, or maybe just her apartment
And she’s hypocrite enough that she doesn’t mind Hiro running around with his glutes hanging ten. :D
Yeah, she admitted that as much on the page following the Anvil-hug
In the Dragonlance campaign setting, “dark elves” are just elves who’ve been exiled for serious crimes. That usually means they’re not particularly nice, but sometimes it’s political.
Man, for an entity that contains a massive variety of powers, possibly including aliens with super awesome technology that may or may not include planetary destruction… The Twilight Council certainly gets brushed aside here as an insignificant administrative formality.
it’s a government and has to manage some sort of agreement before any serious action could be taken (imagine congress trying to decide if they want to pay ransom for a usa soldier held by north korea without a presidential standard (do not negotiate) to follow)
Max is super casual about telling the time traveler what to do. Like, that’s not actually how that works. If Krona doesn’t want to go to your facility then she ain’t going. Might be a case where the team should deploy the diplomatic stylings of literally anyone else.
Sydney seems to have a good rapport with her. Maybe let her make this pitch?
yeah, that is my problem here aswell
I mean can Maxima just go up to Semper Vigilantis Alien and say, “Yeah, that Death ray of yours, nasty stuff. I’ll have you come back to base where we need to look at your gadgets and see that they are safe”
cause thats pretty much it
oops added to wrong comment xD
Yeah, Krona is more powerful, but Maxima is powerful enough to disable /kill Krona easily. And here’s the important part, Maxima is faster. She can break Krona’s neck, place her into recovery position, and do her last years taxes before Krona can blink. Max can shut her down before she starts to do her stuff, so yeah, Max does have the upper hand here, and Krona recognises it.
Krona has shown the ability to manipulate people’s inner workings with little difficulty. Its not certain how that would interact with maxima’s powers, but it is very possible that max’s brain isn’t immune to suddenly not existing. There are non-lethal but similar solutions to get around flying brick powersets.
Except if she does that a time loop will happen and now Krona knows Max is her enemy, but Max doesn’t. Krona takes a few seconds and turns off Max’s brain.
Like, “I control time and reality” isn’t a powerset that can actually lose. It certainly isn’t one that it is appropriate to bully.
She doesn’t have loop set up right now. For the simple reason that even she doesn’t really get how they work.
Yeah… make Krona feel too trapped or threatened, and suddenly she tries to undo a bunch of stuff to get to an escape point.
It’s another instance in which people in power create the threat they’re trying to prevent, because they only have a hammer and everything looks like a nail.
She undoes stuff if you are very lucky. She could also just kill Archon (or rather, most of Archon. Open question as to whether she can affect Achilles). Like, bossing around Q goes exactly as well as he feels like it is going to.
You do realise that you are just arguing the case for Kronachrome to be permanently locked up in a state where she can not access anything, right?
Exactly. Pissing off Krona can have consequences. Just as pissing off any other superhuman or even a mere human can have consequences.
Maxima is pushing her luck by going all heavy-handed with Krona, because Krona has not committed any crime and if Krona just plays along all cooperative-like until she is released she is perfectly capable of making Maxima and possibly all of Archon wish she had never bullied her, arrested her, told her not to use her posers, or any other thing that they might do against her in the future. Because this is exactly the reasoning that Maxima is using right now against Krona: She might do something in the future and so she is now labeled an “extraordinary threat” and can have her rights removed at the drop of a hat.
Really, this whole thing is probably just a case of poor writing by an author who is simply not conversant with US law and who probably did not give this situation enough thought before putting it to paper.
Yes, Kronachrome hasn’t committed any crime, that’s why she’s not under arrest
Laying hands on someone, telling them that they will be coming with you, and restricting their actions is an arrest.
Max is not the most diplomatic person. Cleaning up her messes is kind of what Gen. Faulk and Arianna exist to do in this comic strip.
BAH! You all have it wrong. She’s a negative Vulcan (Nacluv?) from an alternate reality, sillies.
She can’t be. No rubbish beard!
Although, she does seem to be holding an open Capri-Sun.
Females trim the evil beard down below. Heh.
Krona’s reality-warping toolbar look suspiciously like Sidney’s balls skill-tree. Coincidence? Mayyyybeeee…? ( ¬¬)
Also, I don’t see why the elf-chick cant be a Super elf. Humans can’t be the only ones that can have Super powered people, else the Universe would be a boring place.
Nah. It’s just her usual control panel.
Remember when Krona witnessed Sydney’s skill-tree she saw a lot of depth. That isn’t present here.
Also the same artist drew both so that might be a factor. :)
Wait, really? Who’s the artist? Have you met them irl?
…
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…
/s
I wonder if Krona had an established “photographic memory” script, and thought to activate it while looking at Syd’s skill tree…
Look on the bright side Krona: Now you’re sure to be on hand when Sydney gets another level up and you’ll get another shot at the secrets of “God’s dice bag.”
Krona’s reality-warping toolbar look suspiciously like Sidney’s balls skill-tree. Coincidence? Mayyyybeee…? ( ¬¬)
Also, I don’t see why the elf-chick cant be a Super elf. Humans can’t be the only ones that can have Super powered people, else the Universe would be a boring place.
I think Krona makes an excellent offer. Doesn’t matter how straight you, no one can ignore shiny gold boobs. It’s not sexual interest, they are like a neon billboard that says “Look at me!”
A pair of round, bouncey, shiny, gravity defying neon billboards that…
Where was I going with this again?
Nice detail on Pixel in panel 1 — can see where she got impaled, that it’s obviously healed, and that she hasn’t had time to clean the blood off of her fur.
I volunteer to shampoo the giant pink kitty….
I don’t think it’ll be brushed off by the Council that their first “official” team-up ended with one of their own effectively held in containment without being brought to the Councils attention first.
Even if they agreed, what kind of precedent does that set for future attempts at working together? The way the scene is conveyed when Maxima approaches Krona makes it clear she’s not very comfortable with the idea, even if she politely accepts.
But suppose the leader of a faction directly involved – Krona’s faction – says “Yeah, it looks bad, but it is NOT a big deal, if Max had simply informed me what resources Archon could bring to bear then I would have requested their assistance and things would have proceeded from there much as they did proceed from Max’s demand. They were doing their job, which in this instance overlaps with our job as the Supernatural Council and with my job as a member of Semper Vigilantis. We needed to work together on it.”
You are aware that Kronachrome is her entre faction? There is no one else like her, anywhere
And no one is being ‘held in containment’, certainly not against their will, read what is actually being said and requested before getting all “Attica! Attica!” all over the place
Are you seriously saying Max would have accepted a “No” in this matter? I mean, the consequences of a refusal here seems implied rather solidly, certainly enough to doubt how free the consent was.
You are implying that Kronachrome would say ‘no’? Did you even read this page?
Maxi made the same spiel she did to Sydney after the bank: no threat of vivisectioning, but it would be in her interest to come along and have her abilities properly examined, with the added offer of training
It doesn’t matter what she would or would not have said. This is coercion, pure and simple since Krona is not truly being given the option of saying “No thanks.”
And after her little ‘Savepoint’ stunt, she is not in a position of saying “No thanks”, Maxi is offering her the courtesy of asking her to come along, because it’s in her own interests as well to find out what she can and can’t do
She almost broke reality. A strong argument could be made for simply snapping Krona’s neck, because she will always be a threat, accidental, intentional, or coerced, to the lives of everyone in the entire universe. So nobody should really be complaining that Max’s courtesy is a little strained in this situation, considering what’s occurred. She was willing to kill Vehemence, and Krona is not only far more dangerous than he is, she’s also far less in control of her powers. In light of Krona not being dead, I’m pretty sure she should be happy with basically anything Archon does by comparison.
V was deliberately dangerous while chrome was accidentally and immediately announced she needed a review of the potential danger for safety sake. Max is respecting that by offering to assist her while relaying both danger and assistance information to chrome’s SV leader and may be refused by said leader while chrome is not in a point to refuse by nature of her position in SV after her potential apocalypse.
That would be foolish for reasons both pragmatic (Krona is a useful crimefighter) and political (Don’t tick off the Council!)–as others have pointed out.
On the other hand… Max liases with the Council to be nice. Not because they’re a threat. In the end, Max is basically allowing them to police an unknown number of US citizens that have a Council Faction they fit into.. Without asking questions, knowing the issues, or really having any knowledge at all about who they’re policing or how. Max is already being insanely nice to the Council simply by letting them exist and not prying deeper.
Plus, given who the Council is made of… They might ALSO agree to murder her. It’s not like you can train Krona and she won’t be a risk anymore. Even the most experienced of coders make mistakes that can crash the whole program. Not only that… Mind Control? Could be an issue in this universe, so Krona will always be a risk for that. Max, at least, can defend herself from most attackers. Krona can’t, unless she prepares for them and their tactics in advance, AND she’s no way of being sure her defenses will work without testing. She can never fully defend herself from all potential forms of Mind Control or coercion… So she will ALWAYS be a risk, to the universe, just by her powers existing at all, even if she never uses them.
TBH, if I risked the universe just by existing, I’d expect someone to kill me. I do have the right to live… But so does everybody else, and my living directly risks their living. My right to live < Everyone else's right to live.
Krona agreed to willingly come along, so that gets rid of a lot of legal arguments, and as long as she is able to leave of her own free will, she’s cool. It’s the “clear and present danger” thing where the law gets squirrelly. The Patriot Act covers a lot of this, and has been backed up in court. I don’t like the Patriot Act due to constitutional problems, but it is the law….
I wonder if there’s someone who wouldn’t join Archon willingly?!?
If that’s the case then maybe they’ll go out of thier way to prove that they’re unreliable and a bit of kooks.
A Max Klinger type? (The M*A*S*H character, not the painter.)
More like Lt. Falcon from the animated G.I.Joe movie…
… it is possible that the TC might make Krona the permanent liaison between ARC and the SV’s. Upside – Syd gains a new friend, Krona gets assistance with her abilities +combat monster protection in case Tusk-face and her Vamp allies try to take her out as a precursor to the next UltraHusk attack. Downside – Max (and others) quelling Krona’s use of her ability . Plus Max now has two people able to attempt magic type pranks on her…
Careful Sydney, some of those terms might be racist?
Even if they were racist I doubt the “person” being questioned will take offence. Sydney is showing such obvious, POSITIVE, enthusiasm it would be clear she doesn’t mean to be insulting.
Dark Elf and Drow are the same name in different languages for the same race, Drow being Drow and Dark Elf being Common, Shadow Elf and Night Elf are completely different types of elves so there is no racism involved anyhow and even so they would be the name of that elf type n the Common Language of that fantasy setting and so not be meant as racist anyway.
I am an avid reader of books in the Forgotten Realms Setting so, particularly the books involving Drizzt Do’Udren, a Drow Ranger, so I kinda know my Drow Lore
Also, dark, black, shadow, and night are all acceptable translations for the Norse svart (although shadow and night are a conceptual straining, thus they would not be acceptable as perfectly literal translations, but for the purposes of having an English name for a modern interpretation of the Norse Svartalfen mythological creatures it is hard to really get snippy in terms of pedantry), and Drow is a linguistic relation to a set of words that were used by cultures related to the Norse to refer to either the same creatures as the Svartalfen (the source for the names of the Dark Elves et al.) or creatures that are a categorical equivalent, and therefore just as acceptable as any of the other names listed.
However I would be among the first to admit that no matter how logical or literal a term might be, and no matter the intention of the user of said term, what defines things as “racist” or “offensive” is rarely, if ever, based on rational reasoning, and on the rare occasions that it is based on rational reasoning, that rational basis doesn’t last especially long as the concept of a term being “offensive” or whatever in certain contexts (the only way for rational reasoning to entirely support a categorization of “offensive”) gets expanded, popularized, and generalized to the point that it cannot be rational. Therefore despite a linguistic argument for all of those terms to be on equal footing when it comes to being offensive or acceptable there is absolutely no way to predict how any of those terms might be received by someone of a species that almost definitely either was a source of inspiration for the fictional creatures those terms describe in the first place, or were themselves in some way shape or form “inspired” by those fictions so as to themselves exist (depending on whether this is a setting where mythological creatures exist because people at some point believed in them or a setting where all those mythological creatures existed beforehand and thus themselves inspired the mythologies).
Krona is technically under arrest. The definition of arrest is “you don’t feel free to leave” (to both illustrate and undermine my own point, if Krona has a hack ready that she is confident she could use to escape, then she is not under arrest).
However, the arrest is defensible in that Krona is voluntarily coming along. It could float by on “she asked and I agreed” but Krona would also be quite correct to say that she felt coerced.
IMHO, Max went about it the wrong way: she should have just invited Krona back to base for drinks and a code reading session, and waited for Krona to try to run or argue before insisting.
But Max doing things this amount of wrong is perfectly within her personality. Bravo!
The Council has several reasons to be upset about this, not least that they should not want Archon to know things about their own assassin (let’s face it) that they themselves do not know. But that is headaches for the General. Max certainly should get a stern talking to and probably at least a token investigation regarding this entire SNAFU.
IMHO, Max is over reacting, but she doesn’t know that. In theory, Krona can’t do anything any other spellcaster of her proficiency can’t do. Which raises the question of how you evaluate what a spellcaster can do in the first place. What do you do if you find a Wish or Armageddon spell in their grimoire? Is it then justified to keep the grimoire and “flashy thingy” them?
you do realize that a temporal feedback loop resulting in a Temporal Maelstrom could ANNIHILATE THE ENTIRE MULTIVERSE, right? in fact her asking in such a relatively calm fashion is quite polite considering Krona almost literally wiped the entire ‘Verse from existence, and every other ‘Verse with it.
It would not be an understatement of the severity if someone just kept Krona sedated to make sure she couldn’t risk all existence again.
I think that the Linux equivalents of a Temporal Maelstrom would be; ‘rm -rf /’ or ‘:(){:|:&};:’ or possibly ‘mv / /dev/null’. The first one wipes the root directory; the second triggers a ‘fork bomb’, which can only be escaped by rebooting the system; and the last moves the root directory to the system equivalent of a black hole. I think that all of these are covered by the ‘fits very neatly into the Bad Things category’. Most, but not all, modern Linux kernels have a check for the first one.
You mean, Maxima once again showing she’s not really a good well rounded leader type/Archon showing more and more signs of being a self destructive agency, due to its ‘we know best’ mentality/policies? :) Looking forward to the total self-unraveling that must ensue eventually from any self appointed ‘we know best, we make all the rules’ agency when it starts stepping on the toes of other powerful agencies…that have as much as, or more, supers than they do… :)
So, you feel inviting her along under false pretences and then detaining her when she went to leave would have been the better option? o_O Seriously?
THERE IS NO-ONE ELSE LIKE KRONACHROME!! That’s why she gets a Council seat all to her self, where as every other faction has enough other members to have two or three attending
Yes. Seriously.
It’s always time to be nice. Until it’s time to not be nice. In my opinion, it is not yet the time to not be nice.
She IS being nice. Krona presents a threat to every life in the universe, and Max was willing to kill Vehemence, who was much less dangerous, AND in complete control of his powers. Max is leaving Krona alive, and asking… That’s far nicer than is reasonable right now.
Krona can hack reality. For all Maxima knows, she could have a hidden timeloop, or a failsafe, or even just have enabled godmode for herself. It’s even entirely possible that Krona’s death by itself could have negative repercussions on local spacetime!
Her time loops don’t work right, as we just saw. As she has no way to actually test an on-death piece of code without dying, she hasn’t checked them in action, and isn’t clear if they work or not, assuming she even has any. As for her death having negative repercussions… Wouldn’t make sense. Her power is to alter space time, yes, but if she dies, it dies with her. If there was some hint that her power was separate from her, like Sydney’s Orbs, then perhaps some kind of repercussion would be reasonable to expect. Since it’s an intrinsic ability, it’s unlikely.
You don’t need an on-death condition to set up a failsafe. Just something deadly that takes time to develop and that you can reverse. As long as you’re alive, you keep reversing it. But when you’re dead, it goes off. Voila, failsafe.
And you didn’t address the possibility she’s made herself unkillable, and assumed that she isn’t just underselling her abilities.
DaveB, to fully educate you on the topic of the Drow/Dark Elf, they are, quite literally the same species, Drow is their own name for their kind, while Dark Elf is the name for that race in the Common Tongue, so basically calling a Dark Elf a Dark elf is bout as racist as calling a Hobbit for Halfling, they are basically 2 words for the same thing with no slur involved.
Yeah nah, a Hobbit and a Halfling are not the same thing, neither is a Kender the same as a Halfling
*points to the “Lord of the Rings” and “There and Back Again” as base of this argument*
Other than the fact that the Rohirrim in LotR called hobbits “halflings,” there are other settings where the terms seem synonymous. In the board game Small World, the Halflings are jolly sorts who live in comfortable holes in the ground.
a halfling is any half-/other (half-elf/ half human, half giant/ half dwarf, etc.)
hobbits would basically be a sub-class of halfling
Being a sub-class isn’t the same as being the same class, some worlds have Halflings as a distinct race, like Kender on Krynn, and not just as a catchall for all non-dwarf ‘little people’
As for the Rohirrim calling Hobbits ‘halflings’ could be more of a racially derogatory term, not an ‘official classification’
To those people going on about Kronachrome’s ‘liberties and freedoms’ being trampled: are you claiming that she’s not a serious risk? Even after that ‘Save Point’? Have you forgotten what she did to that Vampire Viking simply because she had the audacity to pose while standing on her balcony? The skirt was both long enough and tight enough to prevent her flashing anyone, unless the literally stuck their head between her legs and looked up. And what about her own stunt changing her haircolour to a rainbow-hue? If she can do that to herself, what’s to stop her from doing that to anyone else? Or, as she said in the last panel here (and going back to the Vampire Viking), what’s to stop her from changing the clothing on anyone? You think it would just be funny for her to make a Muslim woman appear, in public, in the streets of Islamabad, without her burka? Maybe you could explain to her family after she is stoned to death, or worse, why it was ‘just a joke’
Kronachrome knows her abilities can be dangerous, and the alternative to never using them, ever, again, is to have them examined
Oh yeah, she is way way way more of a dangerous risk than the Death Star.
If the Death Star were sentient, my suggested first option would be to nicely ask it to stand down. Then you whip out the snub fighters if it keeps bringing it’s dish to bear.
I think it is counterproductive to threaten with the gunboats before trying the diplomacy. But you should *have* the gunboats.
And… that’s what Maxi is doing: going the diplomatic route, asking (even if there is an implied threat to what would happen if the answer was ‘no’) for Kronachrome to come back and allow Dabbles and Co to help her understand how to safely use her powers (and by ‘help her understand’ does not mean that Dabbles or Co know already)
Mostly agreed. I am just saying that I think she likely jumped the gun on the implied threat part of that, in a way that could have backfired horribly (and still could, retroactively even).
Now I am not saying that this is out of character for her, or should be such. It’s perfectly in line with how she has been written, and it does not make her a less appealing character. Maxima may be golden, but she isn’t perfect.
In no way am I saying she should have just ignored what Krona did.
Meh, while I can see the argument that including the implied threat upfront could (and likely would) lead to problems down the road with the twilight council, I’ve always been of the opinion that in the long run it is more respectful and significantly more efficient to be perfectly honest in ones’ intentions when making requests/demands/statements/whatever, even if it is often more blunt than people would normally like. I definitely agree that there was a way to accomplish that in a nicer way, and from a diplomatic standpoint it should have been, however if the implied threat was not included at all, then it could lead to future misunderstandings with potentially much more severe consequences.
I would have likely included the implied threat of “if you are not cooperative we will resort to more forceful measures” closer to the end of the spiel, but before looking for any sort of response, and had an emphasis on the bit about “we would prefer to be friends and do not want to resort to more forceful measures.” as this sort of approach would be significantly less adversarial without potentially misleading Krona as to what happens if she asks for a rain check or tries to leave early without being aware that they will try to stop her from leaving early.
So, all in all, while I think there could have been better ways of extending the invitation/demand/threat, I definitely believe that all three components of the message were necessary to minimize potential backlash from Krona/the council, as this is a situation where Maxima had to choose between a few terrible choices and a few bad choices, with no good choices, as every option she had could potentially lead to some kind of backlash from someone, or in some cases catastrophic consequences, and I think she chose the correct option (ie the one with the smallest number of ways it could blow up in her face and the easiest ways to solve those problems when they crop up), but simply implemented it poorly (but the end result will only really be superficially different in the long run).
Fairly sure, it has been long established, that Maxi is far from perfect
And as for maybe things being more ‘diplomatically spoken’, that is all irrelevant: Kronachrome has agreed to go back with Maxi, she knows it’s the ‘right thing’ to do, and it even seems like she was half expecting it
Well, and as I mentioned somewhere else:
It’s actually in Krona’s best interests to go. Remember that she admitted that she didn’t know exactly how her powers work, and she was a little scared about the possibility of creating a paradox. By learning how her reality-hacking works, she can make more complete use of it, while having the confidence that she will not break the entire universe by accident. So,
like I said, it’s in her own best interest to cooperate.
How would Archon have someone who understands her reality-hacking programming language better than her, the sole user and possible designer?
The same way they are helping Sydney understand her balls: by working with her
Sydney is also the sole user of her balls, may be not the designer, but she is the only one who can control them, and yet Kronachrome wants to study them further
Krona can see how they work though, remember?
Note: The Death Star was sentient, IG-88 was in control of all of it’s systems, then some kid from a backwater planet comes and blows it up.
the Death Star was actually Marvin the paranoid android’s head…
brain the size of a planet…
and it still had pain running up and down its diodes on the left side.
… not quite, mud duck. It was the second Death Star (the one over Endor) that he uploaded himself into. The first Death Star, the one that was blown up by “some kid from a backwater planet”, was not sapient.
curious as to where this is recorded as I never heard that either was aware do you have links or book titles? (I am so not needing more books brought to my attention but really want to know). this is so cool as it adds much to the story I never knew before.
See, this is where I go… Wow, Star Wars Canon is almost as hard to keep track of as DC’s. I’m so glad I’m not crazy enough to try. :-)
Star Wars: Tales Of The Bounty Hunters is the book he is referencing, a good read.
And a book that is no longer canon