Grrl Power #506 – Square root access
Krona may have root access, but it seems someone else has machine level access.
So yeah, Krona may have some… well, not insight, really, but she might help unlock a piece of the orbs’ puzzle. As intricate as that big panel is, it’s about 1/10th of what I had pictured when I started it. I would have needed a full or even a double page spread and another week to draw it. Still, you get the idea. Just pretend a dozen people from WETA spend a month doing it in CG.
Apparently the orbs were all “Hey, time travel, or… sort of. Whatever that was. Sure, that’s worth a point.”
A related note for the prior page; Cartomancer is apparently what Izanagi is, with the card magic. Several people informed me in the comments. I’ve never actually seen Card Captor Sakura or Yu-Gi-Oh! besides flipping by it on a channel, and just happened to catch him speaking in a comically deep voice. Someone explained to me that he’s possesed or has a split personality or something that takes over probably for clutch dramatic reasons. Anyway it was jarring seeing a 13(?) year old talking like M. Bison.
Oh, also related to the previous page, by request I cut out the panel of Max flying and posted over at DA. Enjoy!
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. $1 and up, but feel free to contribute as much as you like. Share the comic with your friends, then compete with them to see who can contribute the most!
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I imagine Dave had a very sore hand after drawing the extended grid..
True True. Likely Pixel later too.
I think she might actually get a sore bum… from something like this…
Cuz after this, she surely wants to get away from all the crazy people :D
Well, Pixelicious does like to be spanked, according to Ellie anyway
Ive always wondered how Ellie knew that…somebody’s a blabbermouth…or a telepath I guess.
Or has personal direct experience :wink:
That was implied with the “blabbermouth” comment. Some folks like to brag. ;)
Yea I think this is the one area where Dave can benefit from dumping that skill tree into Blender.
Guys, I finally get it, it’s not an experience based skill tree! ITS ACHIEVEMENTS!
Maybe. But I’m thinking about it like this: do you think jumping with the telepresence orb would have leveled them up? Or would it be the, y’know, near death experience? partially I’m basing this off of Dave’s ” Apparently the orbs thought, time travel=point” thing. If that’s true, if the orbs can, actually, think (which isn’t really likely, if your basis for the argument is off hand (needs more evidence, but whatever) commentary, but then, lookit that giant diagram that he wanted to be even more huge), then an exp based system doesn’t necessarily make sense. Either someone (thing?) is watching this, and awarding points, or the orbs themselves do that. Fun theory?
Best worst cliff-hanger ever! lol
I did not see a post about it, but did anyone else notice the orbs are not flipped correctly with the rest of the diagram when we see it from krona’s side?
Yes. Dave does periodically have problems when mirroring things he is drawing. I would not read anything into it.
In the big panel, the orbs are flipped but not the lines. Curiously, both orbs and lines are flipped in the final inset image.
I suspect it was an error. That said, the orbs are very odd — Xuriel mentioned that she can’t detect EM radiation coming off them, despite the fact that they’re glowing. It looks like they turn up fine on TV (or, at least, we haven’t been given any reason to suspect that they don’t), but the power-up grid (if I’m recalling correctly) *wasn’t* visible on TV. Could be that the orbs present the interface to their upgrade system (regardless of who, at the time, has the authorization to use it) the same way — so Krona sees it the *same* thing that Sydney does, even though she’s standing on the other side of it.
(Though that would suggest that *everyone* sees it head-on, no matter where they’re standing, which I’d think would have been noticed and remarked upon. So it’s likely just that Khal Barrack neglected to mirror the image.)
(Sidenote: I loved the idea of a seemingly-visible psionic interface so much that I used it in the supers RPG I’m running. One of the NPCs is a blind technopath, who can “see” when he’s touching machinery — at which point a glowing wireframe appears floating in the air above it, that he and everyone around him can perceive. But it’s not really there — it’s a psychic projection. The PCs wouldn’t have known that at all if one of them didn’t have psychic contact with her nanite swarm, and realized the discrepancy between what she could “see” and what the swarm was able to detect.)
I don’t think its an err at all… in Panel 3 they are shown as moving into position, 4 the camera is down and green is where yellow should be, but who is to say it has stopped moving yet and the entire grid is slowly rotating down one. ( slow movement would not leave a tail )
that would (in my opinion) just make Pixels reaction to it that much more appropriate as the entire universe just rotated up in front of her.
sorry Krona not Pixel I was thinking of the cute pink cat and talking about the cute reality bending girl.
So many cute girls. It is mind bending. You are excused.
Except, the balls are in their proper positions in panel three and five, but the central grid is wrong
Could I request you cut out the last panel here and put it up on DA too? I’d like to be able to zoom in on that a bit for more detail if possible. o_o
It really is a tear.
*sniffle*
*paws a hankie to Krona*
*facepalm*
1. Serious.
2. Uncertain.
3. Lilliputian.
4. Ecstatic.
5. Nonplussed.
6. Jealous / annoyed?
I CALLED IT! The orbs and Krona’s powers ARE connected :) Woo! Maybe Sydney will find out what those two unknowns are for now :)
How are they connected? Just because Kronachrome can see more than even Dabbles could does not mean they are connected
Aside from the color scheme being identical read what DaveB said. Root code vs machine code of the universe.
That still doesn’t mean they are connected directly
Could you re-read what I posted?
Here’s my point. Assume the universe is a computer. There are apparently two ways of accessing the computer’s core function. One is whatever method that Krona uses, instinctually. The other are these orbs of Sydneys, which were created by someone who seems to be able to even more deeply understand the universal code than Krona (or someone like Krona, but more advanced in their understanding of universal code…. or Krona from the future or something. Lots of possibilities).
Or MAYBE the orbs are a byproduct OF the universe. Or from a higher dimension, or another universe, which is why they’re pretty much unalterable by stuff in this universe, including scanning and powers which normally can be altered or bypassed – Harem’s teleportation, Vehemence’s aura, Maxima’s strength being unable to budge them beyond their tether to Sydney, Dabbler’s scans, etc.
Or was made from someone outside of the universe, which would make Krona’s description of ‘God’s dicebag’ even more ominous and cool.
The orbs where made by future Krona. She reached a level of understanding so deep as to create a hardware access point for non reality hackers and sent it back because she got the required knowledge to make the orbs FROM the orbs.
Ooh, or maybe Krona has come back from the future, for the kind of reasons that you say. But has chosen her time poorly as it is when Sydney is slowly coming to the conclusion that she is in fact gay. The most critical part being that it derails her burgeoning relationship with Pixel, as Sydney becomes more fixated on Krona instead.
Leading to the classic line from Krona “No Sydney, we cannot date. I am your daughter!
You should be with mom, I mean Pixel. Look I have this photo of you stroking her tail!”
Yorp, I demand you stop making my brain hurt immediately.
That’s one of the theories I did write :)
Maybe one of the orbs with currently-unidentified functions actually maintains the very existence of the universe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
+1
and the theory that the orbs are one or more Eldritch has returned.
https://m.likesuccess.com/quotes/23/1106264.png
Yog Sothoth, the key and the gate, manifests frequently as glowing orbs…
Imagination called up the shocking form of fabulous Yog-Sothoth—only a congeries of iridescent globes, yet stupendous in its malign suggestiveness.
—Hazel Heald and H. P. Lovecraft, “The Horror in the Museum”
on a serious note, maybe the power is connected to her actually using her newest abilities
on a funny note, maybe its related to how much she geeks out over something, and getting to brush Pixel’s tail in the vote incentive put her over the edge.
You have just stumbled across Krona’s first insight. “They are powered by nerdic energy!”
Sydney and Krona then engage in multiple simultaneous nerdgasms.
Simmer down Yorp. Try to keep it PG-13. ;P
You are sooooooooooo in the wrong place to want a PG-13 on nerdic outpouring. :)
A webcomic on sexy superheroines who are genre-savvy, powerful, and comic book/role playing afficianados.
I mean… geez… just saying that could risk a nerdgasm.
WARNING: Entering nerd space. One way only…
#Nerdgasmwithgrrlpower
Well, well, well… Now will you look at that…
Sydney: I WOULD BUT I CAN’T SEE ANY OF IT, SH*TBRAIN!
She can actually only see the top layer, not any of the under layers, so yeah Sydney can see a portion of it not the entire thing.
Probably a good thing considering Sydney’s view of of the world and how it works…
Pointing out that the standard model of particle physics corresponds very closely in structure to a layout of opcodes and data bits will not win you any friends in the Physics section.
Yea, everyone knows it is closer to barcodes.
Bar codes, bar tabs, whatever.
At leat Pixel should be able to help Sydney with what her orbs actually can do and all the likes.
Hopefully, though Krona is basically feeling her way forward herself. Hmmm… I wonder what Sydney would see if she watched Krona running her board while using true sight…
I think this thread is far too smutty. Children might be reading this!
HOLY MOTHER OF TIME-SPACE BATMAN!!!
I personally think you should do a full page view of Sydney’s status screen
So, stick arm through middle of orb circle, you get the level up screen?
It would be kind of hilarious if that was the case. “You mean I could have upgraded earlier, but there wasn’t an auto-upgrade screen?” Of course there would be a way to delay upgrading until you got out of danger. Though there might be a vocal version of bringing it up…. In fact, wasn’t it brought up the first time with the words ‘level up’?
I almost want it to be that you need to either thrust your arm upward through the orbs or say “level up” to get a point just to see the expressions on various character’s faces.
No, it was NOT brought up the first time with the words “level up.”
Start here; https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1150
It would be great if that were the case but….
not long after though, so it COULD have something to do with it… (I’m mostly joking)
Well Sydney’s “Ding” comment was in reaction to the screen being called up, so we are not talking about a delayed activation, in response to a trigger, but rather a reversal of cause and effect.
Mind you now that we know time travel (of some sort) is possible in the Grllverse we should not preclude such possibilities out of paw.
Putting that option to one side though we do still have the potential that the orb level up screen was in response to a delayed trigger voice command. Of which the candidate word appears to be “incontinent”.
Although for the current comic it would be “report”. The former would fit well for the principle of choosing a key word that is unlikely to crop up in daily conversation. Whereas the latter would actually make sense in the context, if considering the ‘level-up screen’ to be a report.
What is lacking though is commonality between the two, in various aspects.
Huh, does this mean we’ll be finding out one of the powers of the mystery orbs? And do they need more level-ups to become active? Because I can totally see that as one of the requirements. :)
They already are active. They both have skill points allocated to them.
Sydney just does not know what they are doing yet.
Brown: Weirdness magnet
Green: Power multiplier (orb affected based on user’s behaviour and personality)
So… this orb does X. But if you haven’t guessed that it might do X, you can’t test to see if it does X. What might X be?
As an easy NON-example I suggest the Lighthook. You grab the orb, this glowing tentacle appears which gives you something specific to focus your experiments on.
But examples…
Healing – if you aren’t injured there’s nothing to heal; if you’re injured but haven’t guessed it might be a healing orb, you won’t try to heal using that orb; if you have a very minor injury and aren’t deliberately trying to heal it, you might heal it and not notice.
Others?
The orbs could have been created when an alien race visited the Earth long ago, and conditions are now different. They wanted to talk with what looked like a dominant species. The brown one gives the user the ability to communicate psychically with woolly mammoths.
Or the alien’s biology is required to use it correctly. The green one projects a detailed 3D map of the user’s surroundings, but the projection is in UV light and not visible to humans.
Phhht mammoths. There is seven orbs and they were found in the water. Either they are designed for octopus use or the aliens who made them had seven or more arms. If octopus were the closest creature type to themselves, that’s what they would have been trying to communicate with. >>
that would also explain the hentai orb errr, i mean light hook as another arm usable at distance and outside of the shield.
so if one talks to sea life the other produces ink perhaps?
i would rather it be a healing orb but needs points to work on humans, and right now if Shamoo had a cold it would heal the whale.
Don’t even think it! this comic is not going the Aquaman route!
How about a little light motorboating?
I think it is out of season.
Although some people do not seem to understand how it works, in the first place!
I just had a thought, how did Krona not know that her time loop was a local one given that any time she ever used it the moment she finished the loop all her clocks would have been off?
Krona is likely to set checkpoints prior to risky activity (as we saw), so any time loop is likely to be short. Unless she had reason to look at a clock she would not necessarily notice any discrepancy offhand. The clocks in the rest of the world will remain consistent with normal time.
Only if Krona has 1) actually changed time locally (rather than running a simulation or getting a precognitive vision) 2) wears or carries a watch or other time piece 3) the device(s) does not automatically update itself from a time signal. Would she spot a problem.
If krona has any skill as a programmer, she should have at least the broad details of her most-debugged program sorted – that should include which clocks are affected how… but may not include how they affect a cross-entity intelligence where only one fifth is included in the loop (harem).
She may not know why everything is the way it is. Lacking that understanding, she will be unable to predict with certainty what will happen with unexpected conditions. She can make guesses, but like a true programmer, why respond to questions with guesses when you can figure it what really happened by perusing the logs? Oh, the logs may not have answers, but a good programmer plans for the worst and hopes for the best. Good logging with an expectationit caught enough to explain what happened.
Some watches, phones etc auto set and correct the time. She will only think her own perception is out.
…uh huh. I did that. Oops.
I’m guessing that Krona and Sydney are going to be very good friends in the future.
For some reason this page left me wondering, back when Deus was trolling Maxima revealing he had that half of the geode that poured that liquid on her that left her with her golden appearance she now has (and either was the source of her powers or enhanced them in some fashion). He commented on how many people had handled it prior to it picking Maxima to empower. I wonder, just how many people had gone diving in the same place Sydney had prior to her finding the orbs? How long had they been there ignoring everyone else until Sydney came along? Why did they pick her?
And why does Sydney have seven geodes to Maxima’s one half a one?
I’m still of the opinion that they didn’t find the artifacts, but the artifacts found them. Also, we don’t yet know Krona’s backstory, that one could be interesting…
it’d be hilarious if it turned out Krona found an artifact on the same scuba trip that granted her the relaity hacking powers.
to make it clearer: Krona discovering an artifact that granted Krona her reality hacking powers on the same scuba trip that Sydney found her orbs during.
Mmm, well we can check that out actually. Given that we saw Sydney getting her training. If Krona was a fellow pupil, then your call is right.
If she was not then it does not invalidate the theory mind, as she may have been an experienced diver, who did not need to go on the rookie course.
Such a holiday would be a memorable event for both of them though. Yet neither recognised each other. So whilst it would be an interesting possibility, more and more elements have to be introduced to explain the anomalies. So we could say that rookies were in one boat and experienced divers in another. Which is not unreasonable, but is making the scenario more complicated.
One thing that does fit nicely though is the fact that Krona does use goggles for her interface. Which could potentially have been diving goggles which got enhanced in the dive. Tenuous but it would be a nice touch.
I just love that Krona can see the actual ‘code’ the orbs use. I feel like she’ll join the team and one reason will be to help study the orbs.
Wish I had read this before posting below.
“God’s dicebag, tumbling across the velvety tabletop of space and time?” With something like that, why wasn’t Krona in Sydney’s flashforward gaming group?
“Spoilers, Sweetie”
Plus, maybe Kronachrome plays on a different day
Maybe she was. You did notice how easily she changed the appearance of her hair. She could just as easily change her height, weight, gender or shape (such as ‘human’, ‘chair’ or ‘dice’). Krona does seem to have an affinity to dice. I think she really is into table-top role-playing.
As opposed to pillow roleplaying?top
pillow top
MY Big Theories about the Orbs:
1. They were created by some sort of godlike being/ Q type entity to either protect or mess with humanity. (Possibly gave humans the ability to get super powers). In that case, she can wield god-like powers as well and can live forever.
2. The orbs are personally crafted towards Sydney by some sort of destiny in mind and the Scoville family is also part of this. This would mean the Scovilles all have their own super power artifacts and they never told Sydney till it was time for her magical artifacts to appear.
These are not based on anything, I just like brainstorming. Any other theories about the orbs?
well, probably unrelated, but could one of the mystery orbs be a compactor? like, she holds the mystery orb in one hand, and the rest fly “into” her hand, absorbing into the held orb for safekeeping, or perhaps alternate/combined power usage?
I imagined one of the mystery orbs as being used to either summon creatures to help, or the ability to heal and/or buff her friends.
Sydney’s orbs are this:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MineralMacGuffin
Max’s geode is this:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwoHalvesMakeAPlot
D.C. used this one for the Green Lantern origin story
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImDyingPleaseTakeMyMacGuffin
(and used post mortem by Dave a little bit in this comic)
New favorite website to visit!
Be careful, you will go there to look up one thing and turn around it will be five hours later. Five hours at a minimum.
They even have a trope about that…
^_^
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife
Read it, carefully digest it, then delete your bookmarks to TVTropes!
Oh and anyone who post links to it should do so with very clear warnings please! We have readers who are still in rehabilitation and should not be suckered into a trope trawl.
I keep getting the sinking feeling that Krona isn’t going to make it to the end of this story line.
Her power being so goddamn broken added to the fact that she can see the coding behind the orbs and possibly unlock some of their secrets with ease means she waving around Death Flags like crazy.
Right? I was thinking that too after my original post. Why isn’t Krona part of Sydney’s gaming group? Because she dies. She just disabled the save point, the big bad was probably unaffected somehow, and she just revealed that she can shed some light on the mystery of the orbs. RIP, Krona.
They aren’t joined at the hip, and Krona could of been on duty etc…
top that off with Krona not being part of Arc in the first place she is part of the council like the others in the previous page. The council is trying to figure out WFT is going on and Arc is helping them.
Sidney even brings it up here in the last panel.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2343
Or Krona got kicked out of the group for being a Munchkin. Or just not wanting to play a superhero game. Or a security thing.
Or Krona might have created a new, better, world somewhere out there…
*waves paw in the direction of the stars*
… and is now a benevolent ruler of hundreds of thousands of immigrates. Some secretly recruited from around the world and others coming from the galactic community.
With Sydney’s alternate Thursday gaming group being teleported to Kronaworld to play in a LARP. With the advantage that all the NPCs are actually played by the races indicated in the scenario story, and that they have a full powered goddess to provide all the effects demanded of same. Be that an erupting volcano or granting spell casting powers to any members of the group who want to play casters.
Well, Krona might end up losing said power. Either by the orbs getting some sort of block, or just outright stealing most of them. Sydney not necessarily being able to use them, though.
I don’t see that happening. Given how comical Grrl Power comic has been all these years I don’t believe Dave would go that dark on us.
The logical thing to happen is Krona gets a temp transfer to ArcLight so she can be on hand for Sydney’s next level-up.
I see her death as a potential plot device yes, but i also think she could end up just fine and in a lab somewhere working on or with dabbler to make new and interesting toys, but not being a field agent. She strikes me as being new to group activity’s, and her personal “save points” would be different than the one she set for the team. It is likely hers has her teleporting to a new location, or a note, card, item, of some kind with a spastic look or message that only she would know the meaning of would materialize in her pocket.
*Deep breath* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Is Krona looking at “stacked rings” along the Z axis coming from each of the orbs (given that they’re in a fixed X/Y plane, relative to Sydney)? It also looks like phantom orbs within each tube.
I know she asked for a pen but, couldn’t she create a virtual PDF copy of what she sees, translated to a visible format, without accidentally hacking reality as they know it?
OK, for those of you who don’t know what a Matrioshka brain is;
https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4847361494ea5
See under the comic for Dave’s mention of a Matrioshka brain.
I’m thinking more along the the lines of Ghostwheel from Roger Zelazny’s Amber series… https://princeofamber.wikia.com/wiki/Ghostwheel
I didn’t know there was an Amber wiki, I should have guessed there would be one. This is cool thanks for that.
So, Krona sees more than even Sydney does as far as the Orb’s ‘Skill Tree’…is that correct?
Thats what it seems like given the last panel is free of all the deep code. Very interesting development. Makes me wonder if the power of the orbs is tapped into a sort of reality alteration power of their own.
As far as power, pick your poison… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
Ooooh! Such EXCITE!! Who made the orbs!? Will we get a new clue?! Where is a pen?
If your talking about the original Yu-Gi-Oh!, yeah he was sharing body space with a Pharaoh of ancient Egypt. During some of the card battles the Pharaoh would take over his body coming to the fore and battle in his place since his puzzle amulet that he wore around his neck was also the housing for the spirit of the pharaoh. However I think your more on the right track with Card Captors, there they used cartomancy. This is magic being used through cards which control elemental magic and other things as well. The card user would be a cartomancer. A user of cards imbued with magic activated by use of a magic power only able to be used by the caster with interaction of the magically imbued item that only specific individuals can use.
Given the lack of detail in the last panel it seems that Krona is the only one seeing all the code floating about in the air in the previous panel. Cant wait to see whats coming next page.
This is feeding nicely into my idea that Krona is a descendant (last one?) of the race that made Sydney’s orbs. (I know there are many similar theories of how the two are related cause its kind of obvious we are supposed to see a link. [even if it is a red herring]) This universes version of the D’ni.
Maybe Sydney is also a descendant of that race, which is why she was drawn to find the orbs and can use them?
yes… Yeeees, a race of Lolliputians.
+100
Love that name!
Now that’s a fascinating idea.
I just wanted to say that I love this page. It’s the quintessence of Grrlpower distilled into just six frames.
You know its moments like this where I understand why some people think Sydney is a mary sue.In short she has 5 known powers,two unknown powers and now shes averaging unlocking a new one every other day……Oh and a character just shown as having an ability that one ups most demigods is having a “My god……Its full of stars!” moment when they look at Syds level up grid.
So far Sydneys only arch nemesis/weakness is her own extreme spazzyness….well….when thats not a helpful superpower as well *cough*Vehemence fight!*cough*
Yet you fail to contrast Sydney to Krona.
KNOWN CAPABILITIES* SYDNEY / KRONA
Can be killed by bullets YES / NO *
Has god-like control over reality NO / YES
Can be defeated by mittens YES / NO
Externally limited on levelling up YES / NO
Will always loose initiative to anyone with heightened reflexes YES / YES
Does live in a world with other supers who can defeat them YES / YES
Made a FATAL mistake in THIS mission YES / NO.
Made a serious mistake that could have affected the entire universe NO /YES
Is it worth insulting the author by implying that his writing is no better than a self-obsessed fan-fiction writer? NEVER / NEVER ***
* Assuming they ignore any limitations imposed by their own foibles (such as Sydney’s play-acting and Krona’s self-imposed ban on using the Groundhog day).
** Sydney very rarely has her shield up, so even Peggy can kill her) (Krona can be killed, but would just reset to her last checkpoint, net result not dead.
*** Dave is a full-time professional artist and writer BECAUSE of his talents and the fact that he has a large fan base who are dedicated to his work.
Looks like you fail at basic reading comprehension.I literally just SAID I can understand WHY some people think Sydney is a Mary Sue,That is quite different to ME thinking she is a Mary Sue so dont jump down my throat like a deranged canine fanboy!
I have made no implications I have merely pointed out that Halo has a growing powerset that in more experienced hands could take out entire superteams and those powers are literally getting more and more diverse.
This is easily something that can be taken as a Mary Sue trait,Personally the real test of whether a character is a Mary Sue or not is not how BS their powersets are but rather how easy things are for them in universe.For example Superman could utterly crush Maxima any given day of the week(After all she is basically budget superman powerswise with an interesting power mechanic that forces her to fight intelligently) but in his stories he not only faces threats that can hit almost as hard as him/negate many advantages he has on a daily basis but also meets foes who are either smarter than him or know to abuse his nature to get the upper hand.
So in short dont be a git just cause youre a fan
now, before the flames start, I’ll say that it is quite easy to misinterpret things, even in written form.
Yorp, draw in your fangs, he was making some relatively decent points, though he could have phrased them so that there was less chance of misunderstanding.
PC .. you did state that in your original post, but it could have easily been misconstrued, as it was by Yorp, simply because of how it was worded, and how people can (un)intentionally read things the way they want to.
Yes .. each and every SUPER in the known universe could easily be said to be a Mary Sue, in some fashion or another. A good writer can make sure that scenario doesn’t happen, and most good writers also have a good backup / beta to make sure they don’t fall into the trap of making things go to the wrong places.
Now you mention it I guess my first post couldve easily been misconstrued,I do have an unfortunate tendancy to be blunt sometimes and heaven knows words like Mary Sue do naturally trigger strong reactions everywhere.Ah well Ill try looking over my statements more in future =)
Though youve hit the nail squarely on the head how ANY super could be a Mary sue if handled wrong,Heck Math can quickly dismantle a good chunk of supers in a fight in seconds and he doesnt even have powers,On the otherside of the equation his personality and quirks have already shown to be a big weakness of his and most of the supers hes been shown able to curbstomp tended to lean heavily on their powers as a crutch to win fights,in fact his biggest challenge that he faced one on one was a super who actually did have some proper fighting skills(Though im pretty sure if a wardrobe malfunction didnt happen he could have controlled the fight long enough to wear her down).
It makes me wonder if Math could actually take down Anvil in a serious fight,Sure he can run rings around her but her powerset is ideal for close quarter combat,I guess he could in theory choke her out but I cant see grappling with someone with superstrength being a safe game to play.
Indeed.
Being a Mary Sue is a matter of how the character is written, not how powerful they canonically are. A Mary Sue is a character who is annoyingly a special snowflake in the setting; they typically are flawless, effortlessly charming, and solve all of the setting’s problems.
Sydney is far too much of a dork and butt monkey to be a Mary Sue.
Also, I think technically, Mary Sues can only exist in fanfiction, since I think part of the definition is that they enter an established setting and work as kind of a “walking happily ever after/self-insert”.
true, but often MSs also tend to fall into the OMGWTFBBQ OP area, tho an offshoot of that could be considered either a PowerGamer or a Twink .. neither of which I feel Sydney falls into.
PowerGamers tend to, by definition, be powerful enough to overcome whatever happens to be facing them, and come away usually unscathed.
Twinks, on the other hand, and in my experience, tend to micromanage things to the point where they can fudge things to their favor.
As an OLD pen and paper role-playing gamer, I have seen many instances of all three beings, as player characters. My last character, who I retired under the AD&D 2nd edition rules, could have easily been considered a bit OP, as he was a Centaur Paladin .. but, the RoE were such that things balanced out in the end.
I could not ask for more. As such the following is just commentary on my own feelings on the matter.
Whilst I try to keep my responses as positive as possible, to encourage people to participate in the community, even when they have criticism, I must admit that I have reached zero tolerance for the term ‘Mary Sue’. It cannot be used for constructive criticism. Plus it was created to bully a fan-fiction writer. And is primarily used to continue to do the same for other writers. Be that intentionally or through offhand usage or casual support for bullies.
Not to mention actually being a highly offensive term. When folks are commenting on the internet they tend to forget that there is a person behind the screen. Plus artistic folks tend to be highly sensitive to criticism. And, in this case, the person is who strives to read every comment.
Given the massive amount of work put into each comic page it must be incredibly disheartening to receive such offhand responses. If it were me I would certainly consider if I wanted to continue to do such hard work, for such ungrateful feedback.
Dave has, in the past, pointed out that ‘Gish-gallops’ (if I have the term right) are a nasty debating technique. Present a wall of complaints, which each require extensive replies to debunk. Meaning that the counter-arguments need to be so big that most people following the debate will loose interest in the debunking.
On top of which if even a single point is not thoroughly debunked, then the troll can claim that their argument remains valid, as that was not countered.
Mary Sue is a nebulously defined term that could mean any one of a dozen different things, depending on what aspect you wish to focus on. Which means you get paragraphs if not pages of debate about ‘does it mean this or does it mean that’. And whatever replies are offered, the troll can just claim they meant some other aspect.
Or just sit back and laugh at all the chaos they have sown just by using one term.
Again, I reiterate that you have exonerated yourself from such. However it remains an offensive and unconstructive term to use, under any circumstances.
I would encourage people to delete the term from their vocabulary and instead replace it with a specific comment that addresses the actual issue they have a problem with, for the particular character or story.
This then allows other commentators to give a direct response to that issue. Which may be as simple as ‘yes I agree’. Or to point out that the charge is unfair, and give succinct reasons for that belief.
I see what your saying but as others have said the powers fit the setting and several of the characters have extremely versatile and decently strong hybrid powers that handled poorly could make the story a boring cake walk.
And in comics its normal for characters to discover lots of new aspects/nuances of their powers in the early days of training with them Sydney’s are just unique in so far as it closely resembles game mechanics. And all supers tend to have major “upgrade” moments but again Sydney’s are unique in both form and the fact that they are already something we know is going to happen due to the game like mechanics of her powers.
Most of the characters will likely have some kind of upgrade moment (and lesser moments where they discover new uses and nuances to old powers) and several of the characters are like Sydney in that their “upgrades” are guaranteed to happen: Dabbler and Krona absolutely will continue to grow more powerful on a regular schedule until killed or seriously disabled. Many of these characters could be easily written to be “Mary Sue” -like.
Basically she fits the level of the setting and , as others have said, its all up to the skill of writer to keep her out of Mary Sue territory.
There have been many discussions of this sort about other characters, and Sydney, in the past and there will be more in the future cause this is an extremely powerful setting: Tons of powers, tons of power sources, lots of ways to get more powerful, lots of ways to mix and match existing powers (including a character with one power type choosing to seek out the other types of powers that you can contract after birth [vampirism, wereism, artifacts, magic training, alien tech, etc… ] in a got to catch’em all power scenario! The blood mage actually sort of seems like that… ) and lots of potential ways to upgrade existing powers.
But these, as long as they are civil, are good discussions to have, occasionally, and I’m sure DaveB appreciates being able to use them to judge how he’s doing in the “Mary Sue” department.
‘My God, It’s Full Of Stars’ .. came to mind when I noticed the tear.
But, yes, shouldn’t Krona be able to ‘take a snapshot’ of what she sees?
She can, but the code will not appear. That is one of the properties of the orbs. As mentioned by Dabbler, following the previous level-up. The screen was not recorded by her cybernetic eye.
Krona seems to have figured that out already. Either from earlier observations, or it is one of the things she has taken in ‘at a glance’ above.
Fair enough .. Though, as a frequent ‘artist’ .. having multiple sources of reference can help in drawing a final result.
She can’t yet. As she learns more about how they interact with our universe. (still not entirely sure they aren’t at least partially in another universe or have a pocket one where their mechanisms are stored)
didn’t you read the hiring packet? ” photography of the underlying code of the universe is disallowed. it’s right there on page 23.
Fair enough .. Though, as a frequent ‘artist’ .. having multiple sources of reference can help in drawing a final result.
So basically Krona is Neo…..
No, I don’t see Krona as being a whiny emo brat who needed a good smack upside the head and told ‘Get Over Your Damn Self’
“Apparently the orbs were all “Hey, time travel, or… sort of. Whatever that was. Sure, that’s worth a point.””
You know, the first thing I thought was actually, “I guess she got another point for figuring out something new about her powers.” The last point she got was some time after she figured out about the ‘Enbiggener’. This time she got a point a little bit after figuring out she can teleport.
It’s not a perfect theory, when I think about it though. She doesn’t seem to have ever received any levelups before we see her get the one after Maxima’s big bang attack, when if you think about it she should have received five. One for figuring out each of the discovered basic powers of her obs (fly, lighthook, shield, ppo, lightbee). Even if you consider the basic powers to not count towards her levelling up, she also figured out how to activate her spell vision (active ability), and learned what those gauges on her fly ball are for (passive, and actually might not count?) since the last time she levelled up. We also haven’t seen what, if anything, she’s done off-panel to figure out her powers.
Maybe it just reserves new levels for after you’ve figured out what the last one did? Maybe the last owner of the orbs never did figure out what that last level they put on the grid did (Enbiggener), and Syd stumbled onto it. Then the new function of the Comm Ball she bought was the teleportation, and she earned her new levelup when she figured out how to use it. That actually makes the most sense to me, given what we know currently.
While it would ensure a save use of the orbs (you can only use a feature after using the training wheels) it would also be a self feeding loop. Just press buttons for instant levelups.
Also it would be more of a “use version 1, then your points are assigned to v2 and v3” type of skill tree.
maybe it’s a combo. when she got her first point she had already “leveled up” with the ppo cutting the tank and getting explody sand in her underwear then she embiggened her shield.= point.
on this, she got scared for her life, was at the mercy of a blood mage, helpless and used her light bee teleport power. =point. new experiences that teach her something + using a power in a way she never has before = point. it could just be the orbs track her personal growth and distill the pips from her soul sweat or something.
Agreed.
Folks have also suggested, in the past, that it is an experience point based system. So Sydney gets points for each thing she does, then at some point passes the threshold to level.
Another is that she must demonstrate rounded knowledge of how to use the orbs, with their current capabilities, before unlocking the next. It is significant that each time Halo has just recently discovered a new power. However, to counter Deedes‘s objection, Sydney had made use of a wide range of her powers before the first unlock.
Having already done that it (using this theory) would not be necessary to demonstrate those again. But it may be required to show some innovative use of the same. The halomobile would qualify for that.
One other possibility (either in conjunction with the above (including or excluding the experience points option)) is that Sydney is being rated on her courage (or personal growth, as you say). Although it is fair to say that using an unknown feature in a crisis situation may be more correctly classed as ‘foolish’ rather than ‘brave’. However the measure may be slightly different, for instance ‘overcoming adversity’.
Which would tie back to Dave’s comment about time travel, given that is how she survived (in a manner of speaking).
One flaw with that though is that opposing Vehemence did not make her ding. So, out of the above options, it would point to either being a part of a point system, or requiring demonstration of rounded experience with the orbs.
I have a theory. DaveB is actually from a mirror universe. Probably the one where all our missing antimatter went. This explains why there are super heroes kicking around, in that one. It provides a ready source of power, for their special abilities. Although clearly they are not made from the stuff, or Dave would have blown up, when he came in contact with our atmosphere!
Importantly though it explains mirroring ‘errors’ such as can be observed above. They are just faithful reproductions of sample source material. For things that he did not bring over with him though, he has to use locally acquired reference material. Thus ending up with the occasional miss-matches we observe.
Now, if i recall right, the card based magic is based on taoist seals from china. You could write a prayer or a command on a special yellow paper and put a seal on it (from an approved authority) that would produce the same effects as a long chant or prayer. Really similar to krona in that it was based sort of on the idea that reality was run by a bureaucracy and that the right paperwork could make things happen (while korona works on the theory that the universe runs on a code that can be edited)
Kronas reaction puts to me the reaction of someone who has faith in something, and finally finds proof it exists. As example – This would be like finding proof Star Trek was real, or that God came to talk to someone in person, or the explorer finding Atlantis. We don’t know what precisely Krona is seeing, but we do know that her ability allows her to see the reality of any item, decode it into parts, then she can change part of what she sees.
I am really looking forward to the next couple of comics >.>
There is so much that has been talked about. … But I must vote:
Next point goes to greeny unknown
Maxima did already advise where it should go. But the green would interest me too.
However I think that things are about to kick off and Sydney is going to have another accident an place the skill point somewhere she really did not intend…
On Krona!
Does that mean Krona can tell Sydney what the two unidentified orbs do?
Maybe, it kinds of depends how much of the core code she understands herself…