Grrl Power #401 – Bat pact
Happy Leap Day! Watch out for men with gills in blue suits and boater hats!
Poor Sydney. I would probably cry too if someone made me exercise in the morning. It’s a rough way to start the day, especially for someone who usually stays up late at night reading comics, refreshing reddit, or playing an MMO slash chatting with guildies online. Oh, and despite asking around on twitter, “bootie” is apparently not real military slang. I guess pre-privates are usually just called recruits, but given the amount of slang deployed by the military in most cases, I was surprised “bootie” wasn’t already in their arsenal. So that’s 2 differences between our world and the Grrl-verse. Super powers, and calling people going through boot camp booties. Oh, and apparently aliens living on Earth. Three things. Super power, booties, aliens, fear and surprise…
I was going to have Peggy say (in panel 3) “It doesn’t do anyone any good to have you laid out for 6 weeks with a torn hammy.” but then there’s the team doctor that can heal trauma. I put her in the comic for a few reasons. One, I’ve joked in the past about how often superheroes get knocked out, and how they’d all have boxer palsy by issue 120, (or NFL-itis) well, the doc lets me get away with that stuff, cause she can fix concussions. (Within reason, not if someone gets their head caved in with a hammer) Two, I want there to be a risk of characters actually getting hurt in fights in other ways, like broken bones or stabs or burns or whatever, and let be back on duty within a few days without everyone needing healing factors, like the way nearly every character in a video game does these days. I mean, in Call of Duty if you take a shotgun to the face from 10 feet away, just hide for 4 seconds and you’re back at 100%. Wolverine doesn’t heal that fast barring bad writing. (One time in the Civil War arc, some guy blew him up so hard he was just a few chunks of meat on an adamantium skeleton, and he healed back to his full self in just a few panels. That’s just hilariously bad writing. Another time he basically reincarnated himself from just a drop of blood, skeleton and all, which sounds like bad writing, until you know that his blood splashed onto an Infinity Stone level artifact. That’s better writing.)
But I digress. My point is the doctor is mostly in the story so I can beat up on the characters without the refrigerator logic of “hey why aren’t they covered in scars” (Old timers like Cyclops and Spider-Man should look like badly stitched quilts by now) or “he got shot in the shoulder a week ago and now he’s holding a guy over a ledge with that same arm, I call BS” (Something that is impossible for someone without super strength to do anyway no matter what condition their bodies are in, but that’s a rant for another time… No, actually I’ll rant about it now)
Ok, so the classic “hold a guy over a ledge for info/terror” pose, or for that matter just lifting someone up by one arm is totally impossible. I’m talking straight armed. If your arm was right in front of you like you grabbed their collar and pulled them in for a scowl, a strong person could probably one arm someone off the ground like that. I know, Batman and guys like that are the peak of human capability, but still, nuh uh. For those of you who don’t know (probably most of you, come to think of it) I was into amateur bodybuilding for about a decade. Not competitively, nothing like that, but when I went to the gym, I went with the purpose of building muscle. I had a day dedicated just to shoulders, cause… I don’t know, I wanted big shoulders, I don’t need a reason. My military barbell press got up to about 200-210 (pounds), or 80-85 with dumbells, but for lateral and front raises, I topped out at 35-40 lbs. I could hold that weight out for a second, maybe 2 if I had to, but that’s it, 40 lbs. Now, I didn’t get into bodbuilding till I was 30, so there are plenty of guys bigger and stronger than me, so maaaybe there are guys out there who could do twice that. Maybe. But that’s still not cracking 100 lbs. Even if someone could do 3x that, it’s still not “adult male thug” weight. I saw a cover where Catwoman was doing it once. I’m sorry, but just… no. Try holding a gallon of milk straight out in front of you, see how long you can keep it up. Now do that with 20 gallons, and you’re approaching the low end of thug weight.
Anyway. They have a super doc on the team so it wouldn’t really matter if Sydney blew a hamstring, so I cut that line. Jesus, I need to up my ADD meds or something.
Edit: Due to several comments, I have added a mini comic to include Bill Finger in the Bat-genesis fold. :)
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And that Finger guy too….
BILL! That’s his name!
Oaths sworn to Bob Kane aren’t binding and if someone else tells, you’re allowed to take the credit. Better to swear to Bill Finger.
Oaths sworn to Jack Kirby are binding.
Yes, I have a hard time that Syndey wouldn’t swear to Finger!
On the one hand, Bob Kane was an asshole of legendary proportions, and anything that sounds reverent to him instinctively pisses me off.
On the other hand, a significant portion of his surviving assholeness comes from his having extracted ridiculous promises from people and then made them stick somehow. If oaths to Bob Kane weren’t binding, a lot of people would be much better off than they are (starting with Bill Finger, may he rest in power)… so maybe Sydney is on to something. I wouldn’t pray to him or praise him in any way, but as an object of oath-swearing he’s an effective choice.
So, what’s Sydney’s preferred MMO?
I believe she plays WOW
She isn’t the first person to burst into tears on the first day of hard training and she won’t be the last.
I remember when I went to boot camp three people in my group literally passed out, one person locked herself in her room and refused to come out and another person took a swing at the instructor. :D
Was it a patheticly weak slow motion swing (from just having zero strength left) or an actual swing?
It was pretty respectable actually. Didn’t stop the much stronger and better trained instructor from grabbing the fist, twisting it into an arm lock and dropping the guy like a sack of potatos into the dirt though.
Almost got him kicked out, but they give a lot of leeway on the first few days.
Recruits get their own room in boot camp?
I remember having to share my room with 50 other guys during Basic Training. The sergeants got their own rooms. I never got to see officer’s quarters.
Not usually? But this was a 6 week ‘army scouts’ thing. Pre-boot camp basically, for those 16-17 who were considering moving on to the army proper.
I guess they were hesitant to put young adults in the barracks proper?
Pre-boot camp but on an actual army base and taking actual army training.
She had a private room she could lock herself into? WTF? Air Force?
The girls in my boot camp had a separate barracks (Damn it all…Well, not really, I had a girl friend at the time and that would have tested me sorely), but it was still a barracks. You know, big room, bunk beds lining it on both sides, highly polished floor in between. IIRC there wasn’t even a lock on the bathroom door, which was yet another big room, about 8 urinals and stalls, row of sinks, washer and dryer, 2 shop sinks, and a large shower stall with about 8 heads.
She just happens to be an ultra elite recruit, so she gets ultra elite treatment, like a private cell instead of a shared bunkroom. Notice all of the ultra elite amenities? Plush! Girl’s gonna get spoiled rotten.
Yea, there’s no benefit in pushing someone over their hard limit. They’ll only end up hurt, and that stops any and all improvement.
I agree with that – even if someone can heal them of trauma from overdoing the physical training, they still would still feel the effects of the trauma until they meet the doc.It would still risk getting those people reluctant to go over their current limits.
In retrospect, I think the idea was to test our limits, prove we could bypass the ones we previously thought we had by miles, while also promoting camaraderie through shared hardship.
The harshest of the training only happened for the first week or so, after that it was still -hard- but also more moderate in accepting limitations.
So, I’ve started shipping Math and Sydney.
What ships do you guys ship?
Nah, Math is going to be a big brother role
Yeah, I’m looking forward to his becoming her Sensei – It’ll be like guitar lessons from Jimi Hendrix….
Yeah, she’s going to have to face the fact that some threats are going to get inside her shield…After all, she’s already had that happen twice in one night! One got in close before she could get her shield up & the other one she deliberately trapped inside. It shouldn’t be too long before Sydney realizes that she’s going to have to learn how to defend herself regardless of the shield.
She an he shall develop the brand-new and not ancient-at-all art of Orb-Fu, an art based on having the opponent thing they’ve dodged your easily-predicted, clumsy-looking swings and kicks, only to have a rock-hard levitating orb of unknown origin slam into them from a different direction.
that’s…. not bad actually. its another thing to control, but if you can essentially add another 7 fists that can strike from any direction into the fight. . .
side note, I wonder if Sydney’s shield orb can (or will be able to eventually) create something other than a 360 bubble. something like a riot shield or medieval round shield.
Hey, that could work. Throw a few punches & maybe some orbs front on while an orb or 2 sneak up behind them. While they’re distracted by the light show in front of them, sneaky orbs smack into the back of their head…
…Then if their only stunned but not down, let the hail-storm begin…
Math is clearly gay. His “I can’t resist women!” routine is just a closet for his real interests.
I dunno – I figure he was raised in some kind of male only monastery where the least teacher is awesome (kind of like Kenishi in Histories Strongest) and ‘girls’ were this mystical thing.
Now he’s out and clueless.
I’m looking forward to the time he clumsily hits on some biker’s girlfriend and when his whole gang gets aggressive he’s all ‘Oh! Something I can handle!’
I can’t see Math and Sydney together, simply because of Math’s obsession with boobs.
Well given that Sydney is shipping Leon and Sydney…
Not mention Sydney and Logan, Leon is just the latest to be added to the future “Mr Scoville” List
I MIGHT have gotten Logan and Leon mixed up. I couldn’t remember the nerdy-guy-she-talks-to’s name so I grabbed it off the cast page.
Wait, no… Logan is the guy from the comic store isn’t he? Okay, I got nothing confused I just forgot he existed.
IIRC Logan = Wolverine. We’ve seen that pairing in a few of Sydney’s fantasies.
Besides I was under the impression that she gets with Olivia, she did actually ask Sydney to “Pop her cherry” after all and I believe she was giving her a more than friendly hug in the start of the comic :)
Sydney x Dabler
Why?
Because it would be hilarious.
Dabbler
I meant Dabbler
I’m kind of wondering about Peggy… Just… I don’t know… sometimes I get a kind of a feeling that Pegs might be a wee bit attracted to Syd. There’s a certain compassion she gets from Peggy that she doesn’t get from anyone else. Harems tease… Dabs deliberately antagonizes… Max just sits back and smiles at Syd’s haplessness. Panels 1 and 3 in this strip… Panel one she talks about them getting a Dangerously hot shower. Not just a hot shower, but a DANGEROUSLY hot one. Panel three, Peggy’s whole demeanor… I’ve seen it on others who had interests in someone who they thought might not return the feelings but they had to try anyway. Chin down, eyes looking up at the object of their feelings…
That being said, Pegs is friends with Max… allows Dabs and the Harems to get themselves in trouble with Max, but I think she might feel she’s got more in common with Syd.
Peggy is Bi, so anything is possible . . .
I thought maybe the “dangerously hot shower” thing was because Peggy figures Sydney likes her showers the way she likes her food…
At least Peggy isn’t getting all Major Payne on the recruits :P
Far from it. In the last panel she seems to find Sydneys nerd-rage positively adorable!
That… is not the look of “Aww, how cute!!”
DaveB’s mentioning of Archon’s super-powered doc got me to thinking…
– One of the tropes the comic runs on is “Most Common Super Power”, which DaveB directly and openly admits here: https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/876
– However, the doc doesn’t seem to be drawn to be built like everyone else… https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/704
– … despite indeed have healing superpowers, as mentioned in this update’s blog post and in https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/709
Sorry, couldn’t help but notice the slight inconsistency.
The “No-Prize” explanation is she performed a reduction on herself to avoid being mistaken for wearing the sexy nurse Halloween costume to work every day.
I would figure that explanation for the “No-Prize” would sound better like this: Just because it’s the Most Common Superpower doesn’t mean that it’s “Universal.” For every rule (or Trope), there are exceptions.
Nice try, but Peggy pointed out that having super powers means there’s not a C-cup in the bunch. No exceptions. So Messenger wins the “Spot the inconsistencies” contest.
It’s also possible that her healing powers might have an alternate source besides being a super power of the nature of Maxima or Harem. Her powers might be magical in nature, or divine (I’m taking Dabbler at her word that she has killed literal Gods). Her powers might also stem from an item, or be coupled with extreme skill, the way Halo’s power is, or like Math and Peggy.
I’ll give you this as an inconsistency if it turns out she IS a super, though.
Maxima conforms Sydney’s suspicion that the doctor has healing powers, so she is a super. And while it’s not impossible that she is wearing the garter belt of healing power or whatever, from all appearances she does not have any kind of ‘focus’ (Champions terms for an item which bestows powers, such as Sydney’s orbs) which provides her with her power.
DaveB just confirmed it in a response below.
All innate supers appear to be idealised physical specimens. But ideals differ. I have no idea what the ideal female form is considered to be in India or wherever she is from.
Maybe she is older and still looks amazing for her age.
Maybe she plays it down so as not to distract her co-workers.
Maybe she was hunching when she was shouting at Max and so it didn’t show.
Maybe there is a plot reason why but we’re not at the point in the story that DaveB is going to reveal it yet.
Might also be that a “nerd power” (such as healing) carries a different physical template.
True, The Leader doesnt look like an idealized superhuman after all, and his powers are being awesome at thinking. The clothing super is a handsome fella, but doesnt exactly look like a particularly ripped individual.
Or… doc is not wearing a push-up. On THAT skinny little frame a D-Cup is less massive than you think. Easily minimized with a sport bra and a lab coat.
Maxima and Anvil are all out of luck in the concealing department. Extra tall and the curves to match. ^_^
A doctor’s smock isn’t the most flattering outfit, and breasts can be under-emphasized quite easily.
So are we going to one day see proof of Archon’s doc’s innate superheroic hotness? ;-)
I think it would work as a vote incentive quite nicely…
Yes, indeed…After all, you have Peggy & Harem covered (or rather, uncovered) already.
Make it so!
:D
Please do show us :-3
Actually, now that I think about it, the manga My Hero Academia has a similar setup when it comes to healing. However, there, even with miraculous healing powers, there’s still the possibility of permanent scarring or disfiguration from serious wounds. And the healing ability also drains the patient’s strength, so it can’t be used willy-nilly, as the healing ability itself could end up killing a severely weakened patient.
The one-armed “hold the guy up” thing has another flaw. Where is the center of gravity? Batman, if he’s holding a guy off a ledge, should tip over the edge himself, because the usual pose is just not going to work unless he’s got his back foot nailed to the ground. It gets overlooked in a lot of martial arts but you are only as strong as your footing. (Although, I think it does get covered in engineering.)
But Superman could do it, because of his weird powered flight.
so are you saying that batman is using patents US5255452 A,
“Method and means for creating anti-gravity illusion” by Michael J. Jackson.
For me it depends heavily on if there is a sensible explanation (sensible withing the context of the comic at least, not necessarily the real world).
Significant super strength? Check. That covers Supes, and in this comic, Maxima, Anvil, Stalwart and similar.
Some kind of mechanical aid would work too, cybernetics maybe…. in Batman’s case some of his million and one different batsuits have been types of power armor with mechanical enhancements to his strength, so depending on the batsuit he’s got on, that could cover him strength wise.
Your point about center of gravity is a good one though. I agree superman is covered because of his flight, in GG I guess that would also apply to Maxima and her zero range TK. Stalwart’s ability to adjust his mass (I now weigh as much as the space shuttle) would work, he could raise his mass to move the center of gravity. Characters without either of those abilities might have a problem.
Mass would also apply to the balance issue when using some kind of power suit I suppose. Terry’s lightweight “I can fold it up in my bag” hi tech batsuit from Batman Beyond, no, Bruce’s massive, heavy power armor batsuit form an episode in that series… maybe.
It might be possible to do the one arm lockout, assuming proper stance. There are eye witness accounts of Bruce Lee holding 125# barbells out in front of himself 1-handed for several seconds when he weighed ~140#. So it’s not impossible, but it’s at the upper limit of the 1%.
Sorry, but there’s no fooling gravity. Bruce might have had the upper body strength to hold that weight, but unless he leaned backwards to compensate the center of gravity would end up in front of his toes and he’d tip over. So it’s either leaning back or he had his shoes nailed to the ground.
Twisted Haywire mentioned the patent for “Method and means for creating anti-gravity illusion” by Michael J. Jackson. If I remember correctly that involves an anchor being fastened to the floor that mates with a mechanism in the heel of a shoe. These can be mated by simply stepping on the anchor, and released by twisting the shoe. If you look at the videos of Michael using this device he really made it look impressive. What’s also impressive is the way he managed to make it seem easy, when it must have taken a lot of training to build up the strength to pull it off, not to mention the precision needed to be able to reliably lock into the anchor in the middle of a dance routine.
Now imagine standing there holding the weight of a man on straight arms in front of you. That would take some serious muscles. Could Bruce have done that? Perhaps, but why would he?
Bruce did that demonstration to show off his strength, not his ability to fool gravity, and leaning backwards does not make it any less impressive.
well, for batman there’s still a possibility he could have some kind of gadget for securing his boots to the ground, so that could cancel out the center of mass problem :)
And if he could have that gadget he would have that gadget. Being able to dangle someone over the edge with one arm when they believe it is impossible is even more scary for the villains.
Batman does stuff like ‘throw batarang to take out a crossbow bolt after it’s loosed at him at close range and catch the second one that was loosed simultaneously.’ He catches an arrow loosed by Green Arrow…behind his back without looking. He levers giant (four foot wide) totem poles off his body from positions where he has no mechanical advantage. He holds up one-ton ceilings. He dekes through automatic gunfire. He switches teacups while the person sitting across from him blinks, without spilling a drop.
Comic books’ idea of ‘Peak Human’ is fundamentally different from that of reality, as are those of comic book physics. :)
i can see Sydney doing the whole “hold them over the edge” with absolutely no problems, thanks to MollestOrb – I mean Lighthook. It held Kevin AKA Vehemence’s throat in well enough to not only prevent regeneration, but actually choke him too, she’s lifted her car too, so lifting a person & dangling them over a large drop while floating beside them is a possibility…
I don’t know about Bruce, but doesn’t his successor in Batman Beyond have some kind of exoskeleton built into his suit to give him super strength? I didn’t really watch the TV show, but I think I remember that.
Yes, but even with the extra support, he still has to contend with an unsupported centre of gravity.
That appears to be the problem with most superheroes. They don’t understand the gravity of the situation. Ironically, the one person who could pull it off would be Spider-man due to his increased strength and sticky feet, but he would be the least likely to be serious while doing it.
I believe the Batman Beyond Suit of Terry can also stick to walls. I seem to remember him sticking to a wall and touching his fingers to window to listen in on a conversation.
Superman could also manage it, he just needs to be flying in place.
That exoskeleton comes with mass. Mass on Earth brings weight. Weight allows you to more easily ignore a leveraging force such as holding a lesser mass out at arms length.
And really, simply taking a spread legged stance can help considerably with such exercises.
Wolverine, in The Wolverine, was always accompanied by sound effects which made his footsteps sound ponderous. Because he has a metal laced skeleton. He could easily perform the “hold a person out at arms length” trick, because he has both the strength to do so, and the mass to counter their leveraging force.
Torque… its torque
If you take into account that Batman is wearing body armor and has lots of gadgets he probably weighs over 350#. Lifting a 180# man (@ approximately half his weight) would put the center of gravity at 1/3rd the distance to the held man. This means if he held him out 3 feet in front of himself, he’d just need one foot to be 1 foot in front of his body to be balanced.
The standard way to hold a man over a drop is a “sideways horse” power stance. Basically stand feet slightly more than shoulder width perpendicular to the edge, then turn your shoulders toward the edge. this leaves your foot 1-1 1/2 feet in front of you and the person about 1/2 foot past that. This would mean as long as the person weighs less than you, you’re balanced.
Somewhere, the ghost of Bill Finger swears that he will have justice, or at least recognition…
DUDE… Don’t forget BILL FINGER.
The guy doesn’t get enough respect. I mean, he gave the Batman his Cape and Cowl image.
Maybe Batman has some sort of supporting struts in his sleeve, that lock into place when he holds his arm out and shrugs his shoulder in a specific way, so that the weight of the thug is mostly supported by some sort of framework of struts through his suit and not by his merely biological arm.
A framework of struts would only work if one of the parts of the framework were forward of their combined center of gravity. Which doesn’t work if there’s a ledge involved.
A set of powered armor that was heavy could work, so long as it was heavy enough to shift their CoG back a foot or so.
NO-ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
…
Sorry, read the commentary and couldn’t help myself.
Our chief weapon in surprise. Surprise and fear…
Peggy is the kind of instructor you want to get in the military.
Sadly, she isn’t the type you normally get.
It’s totally official.
“Wobble-eyes” Syndey is adorable.
That was confirmed back when Sidney asked Maxima if she got her in trouble with the president.
Had I been there, I wouldn’t have been able to resist taking that poor girl into my arms for a comforting hug. At which point, the surprised Sydney, not knowing what I was doing, would probably zap me with her knee. That or call for help so Peggy and Math would come and beat me up.
Hey don’t forget Arnold Schwarzenegger pulling that stunt in Commando. One straight arm over a cliff holding the bad guy upside-down by his ankle. With his “weak” arm no less.
the actor was attached with cables to a crane for that scene :)
https://lebeauleblog.com/2015/10/04/totally-awesome-facts-you-need-to-know-about-commando/
I love that movie. Forget Predator and Terminator, Commando is my fave Schwarzenegger action movie.
Arnold might have been capable of pulling that stunt in real life. Just for safety reasons of course the ‘suspended’ actor needed some back up. But Arnold is a large, strong man, and Sully (the suspended mook) was a very short and slight man.
“I lied”
“What happened to Sully?
“I let him go…”
A regular army recruit would be pushed past this point. But then the average military recruit doesn’t have been the ability to vaporize her instructor if pushed past her limits, either.
Oh, and it may be bad form to bring it up, but on top of everything else she listed, Sydney started her period yesterday, comic time, so add that to list of things making her miserable.
No, the average military recruit is given a rifle instead.
with no bayonet, nor access to any ammo at all…
Army cadence
“They issued me an M-16, but they forgot the magazine.”
The only time recruits see live ammo is under very controlled conditions while being watched by hawks by Drill Instructors at the rifle range. If a recruit tries something away from the rifle range, all he or she has available are their fists. And even if they can overpower one instructor, they won’t overpower a dogpile of angry kill hats. As to the rifle range, there is the odd occasional recruit who decides to go all Private Pile. ID’s accept that there is some inherent danger in the job. And recruits who go rouge with a loaded rifle don’t live long. So DIs can maintain a level of pressure well above the threshold were seeing with Sydney without fear in general
Sydney, and presumably other members of ARCSWAT, can’t be disarmed of their powers for training. Sure, Sydney is a skinny out of shape 20 something. But she can also blow up an M1 Abrams tank. That’s something Peggy, an incredibly awesome but still “normal” officer has to take into consideration. She’s part Drill Instructor and part lion tamer. And pushing a lion past it’s hard limit will likely get you eaten.
Oh, and I remember bayonet drills from basic training in 1987 with the M-16. Our Drill Instructor made a point that a bayonetted AK-47, with its steel body and wooden stock, made a respectable war club. This same Drill Instructor pointer out that a the aluminum bodied and plastic stocked M-16 we were issued made a decent pike with the bayonet affixed, but as a war club made a fairly respectable wiffle ball bat.
Fun fact, the ring on the M7 bayonet will fit over the muzzle of an M60 machinegun. You will get odd looks if you walk around with one mounted there using magic green tape. Not that I ever did this. Very often anyways.
Another fun fact: You can apparently mount bayonets on mini-guns, too.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1760
Now I wish that I had tried that. That and the cross ‘bandoleers’ (can’t think of the proper term ATM) of ammo across the chest.
“Yo Adrien! I did it!”
There’s a series of books called ‘Rules for Ranger Rick’ that I saw back in my militia days in Canada – one of them was ‘RR is not allowed to duct tape a bayonet to the muzzle of an Abrams tank cannon’
Belts. The ammunition for a machinegun is a belt. A bandolier is a cloth sash with pouches to hold rifle magazines.
I bet cleaning that barrel wasn’t much fun after you fired a bunch of rounds down it. That tape would melt and sear onto the barrel, at a guess since neither I nor anyone I knew ever did that.
I never actually fired it with a bayonet taped on like that. I mostly did it to annoy my platoon sergeant. He used to call for “bayonet charges” when he wanted us to move somewhere fast. I figured I needed a mounted bayonet to get in the proper spirit.
Pretty much if a machinegun position is being overrun a knife isn’t a lot of help at that point anyways. That’s why they gave me an e-tool, steel pot, and .45.
I suspect Arc Swat has different standards as to how they treat their recruits. Supers are a rare resource, and many will be civilians with wide eyed dreams of becoming superheroes. Treat them like dirt, they’ll leave and never come back.
I’m not sure of the conditions of resigning in the military, but if arc swat spend all its time tracking down deserters, pretty sure people would start asking what’s making them leave in the first place. Rouge supers is one thing, rouge deserter super is another.
All this talk of “rouge” anything makes me laugh, especially in reference to supers, since “rouge” means “a red powder or cream used as a cosmetic for coloring the cheeks or lips.”
Rogue, everyone – rogue. Not rouge.
I’m intrigued about what a “rouge” super’s powers would actually be.
Thanks, that spelling has been bugging me also.
Oops. Spelieng is nawt my strung suit.
What color rouge? Because a bright red rouge deserter super will be easy to spot. It’s the whole reason the Red Skull bought himself a Hugo Weaving mask.
Sydney is less easy to replace too.
and nice red uniforms, or grey ones right now
So, if the superdoc’s job is to make sure they don’t accumulate scars, why is Peggy still scarred?
Shachar
She received the injury when the doc wasn’t around to heal her before the scars formed, or she likes to keep it to look badass / remember fallen comrades.
She got the scars during a war, before ArcSwat was a thing (she also lost her leg)
The doc can heal injuries, not remove scars or regrow limbs or other bodyparts
Sadly, Peggy’s doing the same thing with the physical fitness training that the rest of the military does with it: Doing it wrong.
Sydney’s CLEARLY not physically fit, and Peggy’s driving the poor girl to practically tear herself apart to immediately match a standard she never prepared herself for. The running bit, for instance… She needs to be educated on proper form, pace, breathing techniques and the like, not just thrown around a track and barked at.
Of course when you throw a person who was a civilian YESTERDAY at a military course with no training on how any of the course operates, they’re going to fall to pieces.
well, guess it could be still useful to help peggy determine what sidney’s flaws are – given they’re working as a small elite unit, knowing how to adapt a bit the training to help her overcome her flaws could be interesting to know. even wondering if the rookies are going to have dedicated trainers – kinda like high level athletes do.
I am thinking this is being used as a benchmark measure of Sydney’s physical fitness.to see what she needs to improve (pretty much everything) and as a contrast to measure against later in training.
Exactly, peggy needs to see what she is capable of now, then she can work to improve on it. But if you stop at the “im tired” moment, you will never get anywhere.
Average civilian, start of day 1 of PT: “Teach me how to run? You’re joking, right?” I don’t see that approach as being effective.
Now give that very same civilian this morning PT session that leaves them gasping on the ground… and at the beginning of the AFTERNOON session “Remember how you ended the morning session? Want to do that again? No? Then listen up! I’m gonna teach you how to run!”
And you are doing the same thing as every other armchair critic: getting it wrong!
The obstacle course is not part of Physical Training, it’s to test what level your physical limit is, and then they can start doing the PT
Next up,the media prep course-I hope!!!
But first that hot shower and some breakfast!
That’s kinda the idea. The military knows you aren’t that physically fit. They push that hard that early to start breaking you down mentally. It’s the fastest way to do it since it takes awhile for mental fatigue to make you more pliable.
Does not always work.
Especially when you can stand in front of a rabid DI stone faced and watch them splutter to incoherence because they are not getting the reaction they want.
Ahh a memory to cherish from marine basic.
Yeah, it took me exactly one session of being yelled at by 4 DIs where no matter what I said in response to their questions it wasn’t good enough for me to learn that the perfect defense was parade rest and eyes straight forward into nothing.
But that was in a kinder, gentler service. My brother in law tells a story about his older brother, all 5 brothers are built like fire plugs, who took a gut punch from a DI in Marine basic without flinching, and that pissed off the DI so much that he wound up and really let him have it the second time and dropped him to his knees sucking wind. I’m pretty sure that would have been a career ending maneuver when I went through Army basic, assuming there were witness and that the victim cared to press charges.
I stopped a DI cold.
He was yelling at me, saying he wanted to take me out back and beat the ship out of me.
He then asked what I thought of that.
I said OK let’s do it, 2 Conditions.
1, No rank, just me vs him.
2, have an ambulance standing by, because at least one of us will need it.
We stared at each other for about a minute, he then turned and walked off.
Heh. I was advised, along with my fellow recruits, that hitting a drill sergeant during basic was not a smart thing to do. This was a lecture by a Captain who I respected, so I kept that in mind the whole while. There was one DS I’d haved loved to have tested, however. I’m pretty sure I could have beaten him, and he was such a dick that I’d have loved to have had the opportunity to throw down with him regardless of the outcome.
“Another time basically reincarnated himself from just a drop of blood, skeleton and all, which sounds like bad writing, until you know that his blood splashed onto an Infinity Stone level artifact. That’s better writing.”
But not all that much better…
Cheesier than a Wheel of Cheddar! Able to Machina tall Deus in a single bound! Look, up in the sky – it’s a Fnord, it’s a Frame, it’s… Painted-into-a-Corner Overly-Dramatic Ridiculous-Stakes Writing!
Remember, he can wipe out the whole team casually but STARTLE him and the villain turns to tissue paper.
if I remember right, it’s from Claremont, and the artifact was one of the M’kran crystals; finding it was the entire point of the story, as the villain was holding the xmen hostage to help him get it.
It had been established prior that it’s power was granting wishes (with some costs) so this is mostly anti cheese- there was a big honking huge checkov’s gun well stablished prior to the end.
this story also saw a fair amount of character development, as each of the other xmen failed the test, and ended up in their own separate dream world ( storm, for example, ended up in a world where she and yukio could live together happily ever after) leaving logan alone at the end.
it’s pretty well written and entertaining
“It had been established prior that it’s power was granting wishes (with some costs) so this is mostly anti cheese”
The Artifact that grants wishes is “anti-cheese”?
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the definition of what is “cheese”.
I did like the elements you mentioned and Alan Davis’ artwork was (as it always is) sublime. But the ending was… not to my taste.
The price of the crystal was not just to the person but also to their race.
While they may advance technologically, their evolution would dead end.
And the wisher would become one of the statue/guardians of the crystal
We’re talking about a setting where super powers which break physics exist, and you’re going to get all upset about what you consider to be poor writing and cheesiness?
Why aren’t Maxima, Anvil, Hiro, Barberian, and any other strong supers just turning the hand crank for the electric turbine all day long? That would do a lot more good to society at large via emissions free power generation than almost any amount of crime fighting, after all. Hell, Halo could do that as well using the Hentacle.
Claremont’s run on X-Men from the re-boot to Giant Sized X-Men #1 to around X-Men 150 is some of the best writing in comics. He handles all of the comic tropes with aplomb and not once do any of them feel forced and arbitrary. The issue of breaking physics is a premise of the genre – by reading the genre, I implicitly accept that premise or at least given my tacit permission to suspend my disbelief during the experience.
The storyline in question, to me, felt like he phoned it in. During this same time in Marvel Comics, Wolverine was always the solution to the problem – regardless of the situation and regardless of whose title he was appearing in. It had been established for YEARS in the X-Men that, for the non-mentalist characters, Storm possessed exceptional will, far and above that of her teammates. Having Wolverine save the day in a situation where will was the deciding factor was forced and not paying attention to Claremont’s OWN continuity. I have a feeling that he was told by editors to make Wolverine the hero and he found a way to do that.
And yes, you’re right – people with powers generally could find more useful outlets for their abilities than fighting crime. But people make bad decisions all the time, and they avoid tedious tasks every day. Having characters act human is fine – ignoring your own continuity and caving to the “the hero du-jour ” issue isn’t good writing. In addition, the idea that a drop of blood has Will is also simply not acceptable to me. Had it been a spattering of his grey matter, I would have suspended my disbelief for that.
The fact the the villain was surprised by Wolverine’s resurrection and was thereby defeated, after all the demonstrated planning for every outcome he had done to this point in the issue? Isn’t is reasonable to suppose that he SHOULD have had a contingency for as surprise attack from the regenerating character, given he knew about the properties of the crystal? He already knew that the Dingus could alter reality on a major scale – why NOT expect the person that is hard to kill could regenerate himself from a drop of blood orbrain matter? To me, underestimating something one cannot fully estimate (one’s will) is far more believable than underestimating a measurable quantity (rate of regeneration).
The Dingus was an acceptable trope, although still very cheesy. Wolverine being the Indomitable Will character after years and years of showing Ororo to be that character felt like a “fooled you” ending to me.
You cannot change my mind on this. I don’t expect to change your mind either. But the discussion is fun. :D
The discussion becomes less fun once you declare that your position is unassailable and cannot be changed regardless of being presented with facts.
Ah, but the “facts” being presented are essentially your opinion and my opinion on what is or is not believable. The difference is not a willingness to suspend disbelief, but rather the limits of that willingness.
Differing life experiences mean that some things will be more or less believable to an individual. I’m not saying your viewpoint is wrong. I can see more or less from where you’re coming. I’m saying that it didn”t work for me and here’s why. If you disagree, I get it, and you’re still okay with me, since you’ve got the right to think and feel as you do.
Now, if we were talking about the charge of a hydrogen atom, your counter (in its entirety) would be valid. But we’re not, are we? :D
Careful DaveB, according to Maxima, that would be meth and they don’t write prescriptions for that. :)
Yeah, all of us old-timers have some idea of how hard it is to apply super powers against real physics, because we’ve already seen most of the time it just flat-out doesn’t work. It’s not DaveB‘s meds at fault for this, it’s the eternal war between Comics & Reality.
There’s another flaw in DaveB’s analysis though:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool
I think the ADD meds joke was more in reference to how his train of thought started out discussing Peggy’s dialogue, then shifted to discussing the doctor as a plot device, then shifted to discussing the general implausibility of the one-armed thug-lift before finally returning to the original point.
Yeah, but you can get it on the street if you want to, or are stupid. Or both.
The real issue here is that the doc has already been stated to be too busy to even fix Harem’s body with the broken wrist. So a blown hammie can’t possibly be so important that it takes precedence over a fracture. Unless they are just coasting a bit on the fact that Harem has that body storage thing going on, while anyone else with an injury has to live with it until it heals either naturally or via super-doctor abilities.
That was after the big fight.
She is probably back to normal duties today.
Nope. According to word of DaveB:
Strawberry is still unteleported cause their doc is in high demand and it’s not an emergency.
guess it’ll depend on the amount of damage to the tendons, but a mid to severe damage to a tendon would likely warrant much more urgency than a simple broken bone. broken bones, if they heal badly, you can still rebreak them to set them correctly, and you generally fully recover. if tendons heal badly, there’s nothing more you can do afterwards – ranging from simple joint hypermobility to severe diminished strength. (i know one person who got a misdiagnosed and untreated tendon rupture for too long in his shoulder – he permanently lost 50% of his arm’s strength. – if it had been correctly diagnosed in time, it could have been surgically reattached)
besides, healing and recovery time from tendons damage is much longer than the time needed to recover from a broken bone.
Would it make Sydney feel better if someone reminded her that it took Bruce Wayne several years of intensive training just to get him ready to put on the Batsuit for the first time? Rome wasn’t built in a day & Bruce Wayne didn’t become awesome overnight.
Peggy is right to point out that that Sydney has to take the time & effort required to get built up to Level Awesome. If someone like Leon (who has already established his nerd-cred with Sydney) could remind her that it takes time & effort to Level Up, just like playing an MMORG or becoming Batman.
I still find it hilarious that Sydney is more concerned about the word getting out that she blasphemed Batman rather than the fact that Boot Camp made her cry.
Everyone cries in Bootcamp. Everyone knows that.
But did you know Geico can save you some % in some time?
OF course, you do realise that the Latin nickname ‘Caligula’ is ‘Bootsie’ in English.
Actually his nickname was little boots.
She’ll always have her brain’s random side track where he was down to just his underwear in front of catwoman.
Did Peggy just contradict herself? “We’re done for today”, in Panel 1, and “Besides, this isn’t the last time today we’ll be exercising.” in Panel 3
She might have meant that they were done with this course for the day. The other exercise could be self defense training or something like that.
Not at all. In basic you could be done with PT for the day, and still have to do a bunch of pull-ups while in the chow line. There was a set of pull-up bars right outside the mess hall for exactly that purpose.
Regarding Spider-man, it’s a thing in comics that he has a low-level healing power – it’s not mentioned much, but he does recover from things like broken bones in a couple of days, noted in the comic.
…cripes, but that is a poorly written sentence. :)
One of the most convenient powers to give any superhero. It’s so easy to say, oh and he has low level healing powers or a speeded up healing metabolism or whatever. Way overused in comics.
Having a super-powered Doctor on Hand is smart for an organization like Archon. It just seems more realistic that not every Super-powered individual also has ‘Healing Powers’.
Though, I’m guessing at least one or two of the members of ArcSWAT does have some type of self- healing ability.
Absolutely it’s a common power, and doesn’t seem to be the case here.
It’s just a notation that the question “hey why aren’t they covered in scars?” probably shouldn’t apply to Spider-man, given the dude actually has supernatural levels of recovery.
One point in Spidey’s favor is that most baddies in fights with him tend to go for blunt force trauma using fists or things like hammers, wrecking balls, etc. If they could score few hits with items matching your screen name, then he might be in trouble.
Another thing they do it pick him up and throw him. That is his preferred method of travel. He will either shoot a web to slow down or just stick to whatever surface they fling him at. Note to bad guy: Once you have him in your grip try the ‘puny god’ maneuver a few times.
Yeah, Pete is less durable and more ‘soaky’. Stabbing/shooting him does tend to work, while he can literally stand there and allow rather strong, ‘comic book trained human’ characters to punch him in the face and accomplish little to nothing.
He’s as tough as he is strong, basically. Probably means it’s HARDER to cut him with a knife, but not at all impossible (and he does get cut in comics).
The trick is connecting with a guy who has a superpower warning system wired into his reflexes, said reflexes being good enough to allow him to casually dodge bullets AFTER they’ve been fired. ^_^
Also agreed that if they DO grab him (which is unlikely without superhuman speed of their own, but hey, it’s comics!), slamming him around or holding and punching (assuming they’re far stronger than him) seems the better way to go.
Using a supers gaming system to explain Spidey actually works out well.
In Champions, damage affects your character most typically in two ways – BOD (actual physical trauma) and STUN (pain and suffering). The rate at which you heal BOD is related to your CON, or Constitution, which is general good or bad health. So, if you have a typical CON of 8 for a normal person, you heal less BOD per month than a person with a 20 CON.
Resistance to physical damage is modified by one’s STR; resistance to energy damage is modified by one’s CON. Being really strong makes you harder to hurt with punches and such, while having a high CON makes you harder to hurt with lightning, fire, cold, and soon. STR and CON also impact how much STUN you have, as well, with BOD also playing a part in that stat.
Finally, damage that is very high energy over a small surface area (guns, edged and pointy weapons and so on) is called Killing Damage, while punches and other similarly diffuse damage is called Normal Damage. Normal Damage is applied against Normal Defense, while Killing Damage is applied against Resistant Defense. BOD always applies against the appropriate defense; STUN applies to full defense *unless* the character has no defense at all against that type of damage, in which case STUN ignores base defenses.
Spiderman is High STR and High CON, so his defenses against Normal attacks are pretty impressive. However, he is not particularly resistant against Killing Damage (either very low or no resistant damage). He is also probably somewhat more durable in general as well (high BOD). Since those three stats determine his STUN, he can take a few punches pretty well and can suffer low-power killing attacks without dying outright or passing out from the pain.
Last I heard (OHOTMU) Spiderman is in the 20-25 ton lifting range. This would put him in the mid 30’s to low 40’s for STR in Champions (I think…). His CON is likewise in that same range. From a “build” point of view, he hasn’t added a lot of powers over the years, so I’m guessing he’s spent points on STR, DEX, CON, BOD and SPD for the most part (DEX is Agility, SPD is how often you act). His power set doesn’t really justify Resistant Defense, but buying all those things up will make it pretty hard to hurt him TOO much with the usual killing attacks he faces (handguns, rifles and assault weapons, knives).
Anyone else remember the Captain Universe / Tri-Sentinel storyline Spiderman was in? He beat up people *way* outside his weight class with the Unipower – and got beat within an inch of his life after he lost the Unipower.
Hey Dave, Did you already decide about the two unknown orbs? I would suggest a healing factor, and *Both ways Sharing*- Maybe not Knowledge, but skills and powers. Or.. IDK, One that if she touches it it lets her use any and all of the other ones while still having a free hand..
Sorry if it biggs you.
He has reported several times that he knows what the two unknown do, but is waiting until the right time to reveal all to the world.
Thank you. I probably already knew but forgot.. Hope I didn’t bug him too much.
Oh, and I just binged the comic and you really improved.
I have heard of them referred to as a “boot” but that may have been a work of fiction.
Tears usually don’t happen for the first few days until you burn through all your physical reserves; it’s also why their diet in Basic is kind of controlled (at least selection) so they have have good food to rebuild the body. It’s something that could easily be overlooked when creating a program like this from scratch; all recruits are already physically superior… Except Halo.
None of which applies here. They will do anything to keep Syd that they have to.
Syd’s also a scrawny nerdette. She doesn’t have any physical reserves to burn through, really.
I just want to say that as religion annoys me to no end, I am Atheist and somehow *so help me God* does not sound to me like it would work for a Buddhist for example, I would totally support having option to swear on something specific you treasure.
If you are really an atheist then stop capitalizing the word when it’s in the middle of a sentence. You are only providing ammunition for all the religious idiots who claim that atheism is merely another form of religion.
Frankly, that was auto-correct. I use it same way someone uses American, French or Brit or in my case Slovakian. It’s a group of people who identify with one another based on something arbitrary like where you were born or how you were raised.
But frankly as long as people leave my disbelief alone I don’t see why I should care about what kind of imaginary friend they have.
Sorry if you think I add fuel to the fire, I simply don’t accept such nonsense claims as *disbelief is a form of belief* and did not even consider it when I was writing my post. Why even bring it up, I ask? It’s simply illogical statement that I will not entertain.
The problem being that Christian, Muslim, and Jew are all capitalized. While hunter, botanist, vegetarian, and atheist are not. When atheist is capitalized it confuses the issue of whether it is a belief system, and since one of the attacks on atheism is that it is a belief system I take offense to seeing it capitalized erroneously.
There is ZERO scientific evidence saying god either exists or does not exist.
So when an atheist say they have no beliefs I have to laugh at them.
This is because if you hold something to be true without proof, all you have is belief.
And yes I BELIEVE God exists.
And no I do not have proof of God’s existence.
Peggy contradicted herself? She told Sydney they were done for today, then told her this wasn’t the last time they would be exercising today. So, which is it?
I can understand her giving Sydney a break, but is she getting her hopes up only to have them dashed again?
Perhaps she meant that the outdoor track and field stuff was done, but that later they’d be heading into the gym.
To be fair to Spidey, while he doesn’t have the Wolverine level regeneration, he heals quicker (much like Captain America) than normal people, and that healing likely helps prevent the scars :)
Being able to regenerate from small pieces doesn’t really work. After all Wolverine has lost lots of small pieces during his existence. So why hasn’t one of those pieces regenerated into another duplicate of Wolverine? It implies there could be thousands of wolverines running around that regrew from lost body parts. If the power works from one piece of him it should work for all pieces of him.
Of course they could go around and gather up the extras and drop them in a volcano from a helicopter. But given the way Wolverine swears the people doing that could be arrested for making an obscene clone fall.
I did something like this is a group of regenerating trolls in a D&D campaign (or is it cam-pain?). What was keeping a lopped off arm from regenerating a new troll? Well food supply. The energy and mass needed to form a new body just isn’t there, even with magic keeping the thing from dying right away. If you are feeling suicidal, you could try surgically reattaching the arm to the rest of the body, but keep in mind that it is nearly impossible to use anaesthetics on these guys.
Another issues with Logan’s regeneration is that it is NEW tissue, not a recovery of the previous body part. This is why he lost his memory. He suffered a serious brain injury that, although his brain regrew the injured area, the new region was blank and did not contain the previous memories.
The one case I know of ‘regrow from bits with full memory’ is Captain Jack of Torchwood.
Maybe it’s just me, but in the final panel, does anyone else’s brain try to interpret it as if Dave were trying to make Sydney transparent? Something about the way her hair, the edge of the wood, the dirt on her clothes, and the trees in the background line up…yeah, my first reaction was that she’d unlocked the power of one of her other orbs.
Nobody else? I’m straight-up crazy? OK then.
Didn’t see it till you said so, now having trouble not seeing it.
This does not, however, preclude you from being straight-up crazy. It does raise the possibility of your condition being transmittable. Bummer of a superpower, Hal.
In the USMC the newbies are referred to as ‘boot’ (or ‘fuckin boot’) starting in bootcamp and continuing well after. It varies depending on Marine and unit, but you stop being called a boot when you 1: stop acting like a fuckin boot, 2: actually deploy, and/or 3: get promoted a bunch.
According to some Marines, some people never stop being boot as fuck.
No idea if any of the other branches use the same term. Since ARCSWAT pulls from all branches as well as civilians and law enforcement, it’s entirely possible that they could pick up slang from other branches. So if you want some authentic US military slang, they could realistically refer to the recruits as boots like the Marines do.
(Source: I am not a Marine, I just read Terminal Lance.)
Yes, in the militia, the term was ‘Plugs’… as in ‘stupid plug!’
Though I do hope the super-healing doesn’t get overused. That Heatwave lost a toe is promising in that regard in that the chars can’t just dismiss getting injured.
In ALL the superhero MMOs I’ve played, the moment ‘magic’ healing for a supergroup is introduced the frequency of major injuries skyrocket. Because, hey, superhealing, back at 100% in no longer than it wants to be milked for material.
Sydney should not be getting a dangerously hot shower. She will want a dangerously hot breakfast instead. The shower will be a bit above “Damn that’s Cold!” to allow her body to heat up as the cold mud washes off her. Hmm, she is standing in the shower after taking her clothes off and thinking that the mud is in the the places her tan would be, if she ever went out to the beach.
Just listen to Aquaman’s rousing sing of heroism and pick yourself up. As long as you heart you can keep going and improving!
I thought this one might be Aquaman’s favorite song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB6W2VAx2J8