Grrl Power #388 – Delicate negotiations
The number of times Deus swivels around to stare dramatically out over the horizon during this flashback borders on the hyperdramatic. I guess he needs a few more moves in his repertoire.
It would be super challenging to carve out a slice of civilization under the conditions Indinge describes. Any attempt at building infrastructure could be seen by any number of parties as threats against them, their goals, or their power base. Even stuff that doesn’t seem like it could possibly be a threat could be resisted simply because they don’t want to see opposing parties succeeding. It legitimizes them as legitimate rulers which takes away from their own power. It’s one of many reasons that war torn regions like that can get mired in seemingly endless cycles of violence. Someone else is building a school/hospital/water treatment plant/pipeling? Blow it up. Take credit for it to recruit more like minded people to your cause or it it goes badly and a bunch of innocents get killed, then blame the second most powerful party to drive people away from them. One single super in an environment like that could radically shift the power base, if not totally decide the outcomes. A person like that would either be courted like a god or hunted like a dog. Or a fox I guess. People don’t really hunt dogs. Not as an organized “sport” anyway.
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Sounds like Indinge is about to be ‘surgically’ removed himself
My thoughts exactly.
well he is Indinge Sr perhaps Jr will be more … Ameniable
I believe that the Roman Empire often attempted to explore this option when engaging in client state development management.
“Us.”
Rare slip of the tongue, or deliberate veiled (or not so veiled) threat? Rather hard to tell. Though when dealing with large, well-dressed, dramatically-scarred and filthy-rich ‘businessmen’ it’s probably safer to assume the latter. Not that it makes much difference, I suppose.
He is probably more likely to be given an example of exactly why he should cooperate with someone who will make him one of the richest men in Africa.
Turning down such an offer out of pride is foolish, and might be terminal. Best let yourself become rich, even if you have to cede a bit of sovereignty in the process.
Cue arrival of Indinge’s previously trusted second-in-command, a man very quick on the uptake.
Ah, I just noted that the previous strip referred to Indinge Senior.
I infer that Junior is much more lfexibly-minded, or simply possessed of better survfval instincts, than his late father.
Knew Deus already had a few supers on his payroll
We still don’t know ifnhenisba super himself just become we haven’t seen him do anything dusent mean he has mouthing he can do.
Through I will feel let down if he is an economancer
Nothing wrong with being an economancer, not all super powers have to be ‘flashy’ or ‘messy’
Its just that the billioner economancer just seems to easy
Easy? You think setting up the dominos so short selling Wall Street as the bubble burst and the cascade effect it had everywhere was easy? You have to build and set your pieces. Block those that would spot the rocky foundations you were setting up to fail. Then you need to leave the trail of breadcrumbs to all your financial opponents so everyone is angry with them while you walk away with the gnp of a major country.
It isn’t easy. It is art!
A lot Easy’er for an economancer down right simple if he also had the aid of a burocromancer
I think those two powers would be considered ancillary to one another. If not simply alternate uses of the same power.
Nope an economancer should have limited cushion of the fucherb limited to finance data a berocromancer just knows what forms he needs and how to fill out any form he is holding and maybe knows were a filled out for me needs location
I have no clue how my auto correct changed vision to cushion but it did
You complain about that but leave ‘fucherb’ unremarked?
I can explain that its the autocorrect that is vexing me
The best thing about those super powers is that they do not require super powers.
You mean ala George Soros. How many countries is he wanted in now?
See! The private security force has already shown their worth!
He’s gonna have to do something now.
Hopefully, to save page count, that ‘something’ will only be a montage of several of what we will infer are Indinge’s opponents meeting sudden ends, before cutting back to Max saying something pithy like ‘you were saying?’ or ‘any other objections?’
When carving out a country for yourself, you need to be willing to kill anyone and everyone who gets in your way or interferes (how do you think pretty much every country in the world became a country in the first place? well, except for Israel which was just handed to them after World War the Second without asking the previous owners because no one else wanted them after they got driven out of Europe), but, you also need to make joining and supporting you to be a more lucrative option
Subtle…
“you also need to make joining and supporting you to be a more lucrative option” – which is the hard bit. To get the wealth and stability that allows you to make that offer you kind of need the infrastructure, education, access to international markets and stable business environment (not necessarily corruption-free, just predictable and not so bad as to kill the venture) that builds the wealth and cooperation that enables the infrastructure etc that…
Chicken and egg problem, except the egg is an onion, and you’re trying to create it all with a 3D printer and keeping your raw materials in a student-house fridge which everyone keeps taking.
Yeah, that’s why you start off killing everyone who threatens your future plans, then once you have the infrastructure and all the rest you can start attracting them to your side (can still kill them if that still doesn’t work :P)
Your wrong about Israel, while Europe & America supported them, the people living there didn’t. There was a brief war which lead to the creation of the PLO by the displaced Palestinians.
And still wrong. If you’ll read the history just a bit further back, Israel was there first, legally bought the land from the “natives,” ROME came in, conquered the place, renamed it “Palestine” to slight the Jews, and made them second class citizens, those that weren’t driven out or killed, and then Europe (which descended from Rome) gave it back to the Jews, with much smaller borders after the Jews helped them stop the Nazis in WWII, then, the “Palestinians,” not happy with the very generous terms they were given, walked away, abandoning their territory, came back with many arabic nations to try to drive the Jews into the ocean, they lost, and now are trying to call Israel “occupiers” and continue to shoot rockets out of Mosques into churches, shopping centers, and schools, when they’re not too busy trashing monuments to try to erase the evidence against their claims.
Wow. That’s a very confused representation. Maybe you should try actually reading Tanakh to get a better grip on ancient history.
The problem is that Palestinians don’t see THAT back in history. They think if it was their land for more that thousand years that it was forever. Americans would relate to that, “their” country is not even that old. …. in fact, most European countries can’t trace their roots farther than fall of Rome either.
Most of Europe was a collection of Roman client-states at that point. IIRC the only ones that really managed to hold the Romans off was the Picts/Celts and the Gauls.
The Europe was divided to two parts: one didn’t contained any states, just tribes. The other was Rome. Some Pict/Celts did hold the Romans off, but they did NOT formed a state yet. And people moved a lot in fall of Rome, so any land ownership from before that would be dubious.
Especially the Picts :)
I don’t think a purchase of land (or just, owning land) 2000 years ago is very relevant to land ownership anymore
That depends on whether you are of a Judaeo-Christian faith. God deeded that land to the Israelis. “I will give you a land flowing with milk and honey.” If you are of the faith no one on earth has the authority to rescind God’s land deed even if it is thousands of years old. God said he would gather them back after scattering them. It appears that since 1948 that much of the prophesy is fulfilling itself. The other countries did not want them nor apparently would they protect them. So they decided to go home and protect themselves instead of relying on others.
Actually they were also re-deeded the land after World War 2, although they had been re-buying the land from 1918-1933. So… they actually have a right to the land both biblically AND legally. It went from the Ottoman Empire (which no longer exists) to the British after the british conquest of the area in 1918, then the land was, in its entirety, re-deeded back to the jewish people (they were also offered Ethiopia, but refused that area and bought back the area of Israel instead), thanks to two jewish funds – the Jewish National Fund and the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association.
Also probably should mention that the Palestineans mostly are not from that region – there were no palestineans as the term is used today more than 60 years ago. It’s pretty much a fake ethnicity… they’re mostly from Egypt and Jordan (the entire area of Jordan and Israel and Syria used to be termed ‘Palestine’ as a general area, not as a specific name of a country (and historically they lived in Jordan and Egypt and the southern areas of Syria – Israel proper was mostly barren and in the area that’s currently Israel, there were actually only two peoples who were non-nomadic inhabitants – the jews and the sarmatians (the latter of whom the Israelis do grant automatic citizenship, but there’s only about 700 of them left today). In short, most arabs called the area that you call Palestine ‘Southern Syria’ until the re-formation of Israel with concrete borders in the 1940s.
I should also mention that the idea that there was any specific nation called Palestine 2000 years ago (or even 100 years ago) is historically inaccurate. The actual names of the areas were Galilee, Phoenicia, Gaulantis, Decapolis, Samaria, Peraea, Judea, Nabatea, Idumea, and Decapolis. Most of the land which is now called Israel is where the lands of Samaria, Galilee, and Judea were located.
The word ‘Palestine’ itself was from the word Peleshet, which in English and ancient greek (from the greco-roman word Philistine, was originally renamed that in order to separate the semitic groups living there, and give more of legitimacy to the European Greeks and Romans). Honestly, Palestine isnt even an arab word, and the leader of the palestineans was… well… Egyptian. Yassir Arafat was Egyptian. Anyway, just thought I should mention that since people were beginning to argue about it.
I just realized that when I said “they were re-deeded the land” I didnt specify that ‘they’ would be the jewish people through two jewish funds. :)
“Appreciates Panders research and scholarship.”
That’s amusingly distorted. Actually, what was ceded to the Zionists was the more or less desertified half of Palestine, including Tel Aviv. What’s now called the West Bank–the parts of Judaea and Samaria with better land–was inhabited, and indeed people knew it was Palestine, and not just “South Syria.” Israel decided they wanted the good land and invaded.
Some of the Arabic-speaking Palestinians are descended from Samaritans who converted to Islam long ago, and they’ve apparently been there continuously while the Jews got strung all around the world. (There are a few Samaritans who’ve held to their religion, too.) Some are Christian populations that clustered in the cities of the New Testament, like Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
And yes, some are Arab nationalists who want to claim the land where Mohammed ascended to Heaven for “God’s People.” They’re obnoxious, in exactly the same way that Christians who believe God gave that land to the Jews forever are obnoxious.
Arafat was Palestinian, sorry. His father was from Gaza, and his mother from Jerusalem, and Yasser was raised partly in Jerusalem. Facts are facts.
Yeah, that would come under the ‘without asking the previous owners’ bit
And Uhl, you are forgetting what it means when another nation comes along and conquers someone else
The reason the people living their didn’t support the creation of the state of Israel was because from there perspective, a bunch of Europeans were moving in and throwing them off the land that their families had lived on for generations. From the locals’ perspectives it was just another case of European Colonialism and that ruffled a lot of feathers.
Um, no? Most nation-states weren’t actually formed through wholesale slaughter, but through negotiation and compromise among different local communities. The guy who insists on killing anyone and everyone just to get his way annoys his neighbours and fails to build anything stable and lasting.
Sure, you only kill the people you can’t convince first
Most nation states were formed by negotiation and compromise among different local communities, which were established through wholesale slaughter. The realization that the other communities are too big to the slaughter strategy is the basis for start of formation of nation state. There is still big chunk of slaughter in the formation, but it’s not wholesale anymore.
The modern Zionist movement arose in the late 1800s. By the time popular support (as long as said support happened somewhere else, as is the case with all such things) got enough behind European jews after the Holocaust for them to petition Britain to “solve” the problem you’re looking at 60 years of, well, tribal war. The phrase “just handed it to them” makes it sound like there weren’t already a couple of generations of later-to-be-called Israeli jews, not counting the ones who were there before the movement.
Which isn’t to say it was *right*, just that the whole thing’s a clusterfluffle that’s been going on since long before 1945.
The majority of it started in 1918, at least from a legal ownership of land standpoint.
First one I know of was Bilu in the 1880s. Probably depends when you define “majority,” I know Britain’s first official declaration was in 1917.
Well, the Jews consider themselves the original owners, so…
Anyway, it was the logical place for a Jewish homeland. And the U.N. DID try to negotiate a two state solution back in 1947–and it wasn’t the Jews who rejected the idea.
Which is not to say the Palestinians don’t have legitimate complaints, they certainly do. But blaming the whole thing on Israel is every bit as short sighted as blaming the whole thing on the Palestinians.There’s two sides to that story, and more than enough blame to go around.
Well, if you read the Torah or the Bible, you’ll see they don’t. The Jews start of in <> and eventually wind their way through to Egypt, where they start out as refugees and wind up as slaves. Then they are freed, and get lost in the desert, before entering Israel from the opposite side from where Egypt is.
They then proceed to conquer the ‘original’ owners, uniting several smaller kingdoms into a larger whole.
I think technically, most of them settled in Idumea and Judea because there werent really any other people there at the time (which is probably why the area was first named Judea from . Then they did expand into other areas with other groups, like Samaria and Peraea. I’m pretty sure the only group which had a claim on the area at all were the Assyrians, but the Assyrian Empire collapsed in the 6th century BCE.
Yes, I’m familiar with the story. The Hebrews/Jews/Isrealites may have originated in “Ur of the Chaldees,” wherever the heck that is, and may have lived in Egypt as guests and/or slaves, but it was modern Israel/Palestine that they regarded as their homeland. This was the land granted to Abraham, and it was the land to which they returned after their escape from Egypt. And it’s that land that they aspired to return to after the Roman diaspora.
From the Zionist perspective, this was a return to their ancestral homeland, not an invasion of foreign soil. My guess is most modern Israelis still see it that way.
Yeah, my point wasn’t “they don’t see it as their homeland”, it was that they see themselves as the “earliest remaining owners”, rather than “original owners”
@H.I.M – Agreement with your summing -up. Well said.
Peaceful solution on that front may well prove impossible. Yes, the Palestinian cause is represented to the West as sub-variants of “why can’t those mean Israelis just get along with us…?”. However, if one is to translate what Palestinian groups put out via Arab-speaking media … well, the translations are quite frightening. The Palestinian higher-ups have never given up on the party line that ‘Israel Must Be Destroyed’. Not for one minute. They’ve just learned to hide this from most Westerners.
Which is not to say that there are some pretty darn scary groups in Israel as well.
First time commenter here to say that this is the friendliest conversation I have seen about middle eastern politics on the internet
….. At least at this stage.
Welcome aboard, Dude.
That’s because, generally, we are a friendly bunch who respect other peoples’ opinions :D
We don’t resort to offensive name-calling when presenting counter arguements
More than two sides, there’s also Western Interests (sinister music) looking for a foothold in the middle east while the surrounding Arab Nations (more sinister music) encouraged the Palestenians to leave, then denied them refugee status creating a buffer zone of human shields.
Growing up Jewish with family intimately involved in that mess (historically, nobody I can actually have influence with unless we figure out necromancy) led to a childhood of “we’re the good guys” followed by an education backlash of “we’re the bad guys” before finally settling down to “people are people, this whole thing’s a quagmire and the majority willing to try and sort it out are being disrupted by the ones who profit from it continuing.”
“A person like that would either be courted like a god or hunted like a dog. Or a fox I guess. People don’t really hunt dogs. Not as an organized “sport” anyway.”
Whew! I’ll bet Yorp will be glad to hear that.
Yes they do only they tend to call them wolfs and cheat by shooting from helicopters
Or snipe them from a quarter mile away with a .308 that would see better use putting venison on the table instead of unbalancing the food chain by killing all the natural predators.
Personally I always said that if you want to impress me that you killed an animal you need to have killed with a short range wepion like a knife
Or your own teeth
I’ve killed all manner of beasts.
Mosquitos. Ants. Bacteria. I’ve eaten bread, so I guess I’ve killed yeast….
I’m a regular killing machine.
Oh and I went fishing a few times, so I’ve killed both worms and fish. Like a mighty barbarian of yore.
I’ve killed spiders. and, apparently, I’ve eaten them as well, if you believe the internet.
Actually, that little spider eating myth has been confirmed to be a well.. myth, by the person who started it. She is a scientist, yes, but not of spiders. It was to see how fast a false piece of information could spread on the internet.
so how many here have had hellspawn?
I kill Chronos a lot.
I don’t hunt to impress people. I hunt because tasty animals are tasty.
Hunting for food is different I have fished and hunted rabbit (that’s what’s in my area) its the people who feel that they are big people after shooting things like a lion that piss me off. Big wool a toddler can pull a trigger
I’m told lion can be pretty tasty, too. :)
It is not, and no amount of seasonings will make it so.
Humans have certain things hardwired into our brains, one of them is this: The meat of a Carnivorous Mammal is Disgusting.
Anyone who tells you different is selling something.
Really? What about those cultures that routinely eat dogs, cats, and yes, even lions?
Mountain men in the American west apparently enjoyed cougar meat.
Your statement appears to be culture bound rather than biological.
*insert tasteless “tastes like fish” joke about cougar meat reference*
Actually I think Crispin is right. Carnivorous mammals (mammals only – reptiles and amphibians and fish and birds are an entirely different story) taste pretty bad, especially compared to herbivorous mammals. :) I remember reading that somewhere, but I can’t remember where. I’ll post again if I find the source of this info.
Sadly, there’s no reply link in the last two statements (who designed this comments system, anyway?), so I have to respond to myself.
I don’t know how they would taste relative to herbivorous mammals. But they are part of the traditional diet of a large number of peoples. Dogs, cats, lions, walruses, seals, whales, and bears are just a small number of carnivorous mammals that are/were routinely eaten. Not to mention the common pig or boar, which will eat almost anything, meat or otherwise.
I’d imagine the meat is somewhat tougher than herbivore meat, but but otherwise probably not too bad. Might be best slow cooked.
Anyway, something like “tastes terrible” is going to be inherently cultural, or at least individual, in nature. Consider the revolting dish known as “lutefisk,” which some of Norwegian ancestry seem to love, but which nobody else would touch with a ten-foot pole.
Black Arachnia: I’d imagine it does make a difference in taste. Whether it’s a negative or positive difference would be impossible to say without actually tasting the thing, or tasting it within the cultural context. Heck, some cultures out there eat things as ridiculous as insects, live slugs, fermented fish, maggot-infested cheese, and other things I would classify as “not food.” Yet withing these cultures these things could rank anywhere from “delicacy” to “guys gotta eat.”
What can be known for sure is that predators have been on the menu among certain peoples for a very long time. Dog appears to be especially common. Cat is not unheard of. I have heard anecdotes about Mountain Men eating cougar (no not that kind of cougar, get your head out of the gutter), and I’m fairly sure Eskimos used to hunt polar bears (which are almost exclusive carnivores). Do the people eating these things really think of them as any worse than anything else they eat? Maybe. Or maybe it’s just food to them.
Ugh, stupid lack of edit button. Hey, wait I am an emperor…
*writes out arrest warrant for comment system designer*
A few decades in the Tower should teach him the error of his ways.
Just p[ay him/her to put in an edit button.
Because it obviously was not in the original budget.
I enjoy crocodile burgers. You can’t claim they aren’t carnivores and they even farm them.
The thing is, many of the animals listed above are omnivores. Bear, whale, even seal I suspect. Omnivores are different then true carnivores in consistency.
In addition, carnivore prey may make a difference. Seal subsist mostly on fish, perhaps kelp. Whales vary per species. Bear eat a lot of sugary fruit as well as meat they can scavenge. Wolves and most big felines eat meat, primarily other mammals. That has to make a difference in taste
actually, according to what i’ve read, as humans are omnivorous, that means we can eat anything that eats what we eat. So, if it eats vegetables that we can safely eat, voila, there’s something for dinner.
one of my favourite t-shirts says: If we are what we eat, everyone should eat a vegetarian.
Where did you get it/
I’ve said for a long time that if a big game hunter wants to brag about killing a lion, he needs to make it a proper challenge.
First, he should walk up to the lion and slap him in the face with his glove…
You can’t really expect an animal to comprehend, let alone agree, to the human concepts of “honor & challenge.” You can’t treat animals the same way that humans are expected to treat each other, because there is no “common point of reference” for negotiations. For one thing, animals are honest with their intentions…Humans, not so much.
However, I must concede that Yorp is an exception, rather than the rule…
;)
No need for a formal challenge just a ring a sword band a shield like the gladiators used to do then you can say you tested your self agent them not this point and click crap
I’ve never been a hunter myself but I am a part of a hunter organization and I have to say there is more to it than point and click. Actually shooting at some living thing is harder than it seems from your posts. I agree that shooting rare animals just because they are rare is a bad thing.
But there are some animal populations that are better to be controlled by hunters say deers or boars. Now I agree shooting lions just because you want to be able to say you hunted one is pathetic. Still I think you are oversimplifying to make a point and that doesn’t sit well with me.
Maybe its a matter of perspective I have done some shooting and found it relatively simple even shooting left named become I’m blind in my right eye. Maybe I have a distorted perspective
I guess it always depends and as I said I’m not actually a hunter myself so my impressions could be wrong. As far as I’ve been told though there is a substantial difference between hunting by stalking a prey or hunting from an overlook it also depends on what kinds of prey you go for. Boar being very different from birds for example.
It can be dificalt to sneak up on a pray animal they are disposed to running away. Lions for example though don’t tend to run from humans
Actually, lions will run from humans, but most lion hunts occur under very controlled circumstances where the lion is baited into a per-arranged area, then shot by someone with a high-powered rifle that probably has a scope on it before the lion realizes they’re in danger. It’s about wealth and status, not skill.
Shooting is normally done by eye dominance to find which way you shoot. Blind in one eye will make the choice easier. I only shoot a compound bow but shooting is easy. Luring rabbits with tasty grass is hard ;)
If you want to understand how big game hunting became glamorized just read anything by Peter Hathaway Capstick. Big game hunting during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s was an incredibly dangerous and strenuous career, even just for the commercial ivory hunters. Those tackling the worst of the man eaters such as the Rudraprayag leopard or the Tsavo lions sometimes faced worse than even odds in the kill or be killed sweepstakes.
Really? And how many of those leopards and slash or lions are left today? Sounds to me that it wasn’t as ‘dangerous and strenuous’ as you make it out to be (majority of the humans who were killed on those safari’s were live bait anyway)
“In Africa, we have learned not to trust White Men in expensive suits”
Really? You don’t trust white men? Just how many white men did you or your men kill to carve out your little kingdom?
In Africa? Very few or none I’d imagine…
I hope you’re kidding if you think that military coups in Africa are bloodless. :)
No, but even if they killed EVERY white man in an expensive suit, even loosely connected to the former regime, it still would be “very few to none”.
In that region white people probably make up less then 0.001% of the population.
More like 0.01%, if that area of old Zaire had the same demographic spread as the rest.
As it’s now a more wealthy part of Africa I’m guessing they can see a clear demographic shift towards both more whiteness and suityness.
Suityness is an awesome word.
Who gtfo as soon as the shtf.
Of course. It’s difficult to get sh*t stains out of an expensive suit…
This is why nobody has ever seen Donald Trump naked.
Yes, but how much blood was spilt on expensive suits worn by white men?
Considering The Democratic Republic of Africa has a whopping 60k white people out of a population of 67million (that’s .09%) and Indinge being a violent warlord, his only likely meeting of a white person in that country was a gun runner and maybe a couple of mercs who helped him take the country.
So my guess would be his remark is mostly based on David being American and less on anything else :p
I think you’re being a bit uncharitable towards Dave here. Africa has a *very* long history of being exploited by Europe under the guise of “aiding the unfortunate know-nothing savages.” A man like Indinge, with enough cunning and know-how to carve out a piece of land like this, would certainly be educated enough that he is familiar with that history.
Possibly, but not so sure myself. You have a warlord (he basically got there by killing a lot of his own people) who in an area with so few white people (less than 1%) the only white people he likely saw (before Dues or other politicos) was some gun runners in his own personal history. :p
Or those he went to school with in either Britain, Europe or the US
Except this is Congo. If you get a chance, check out the book “King Leopold’s Ghost.” Or just read “Heart of Darkness.” White people, under Leopold II of Belgium, either directly or indirectly killed off nearly 50% of the entire population of Congo. When Mobutu Sese Seko came into power in the early 1960s, one of the first things he did was change all the local names (including his own) to something more “African,” just to try to get away from the lingering horror.
Add to that the fact that almost all the abundant natural resources in Congo are maintained and exploited by non-native peoples, and you’ve got a natural breeding ground for suspicion of “Greeks bringing gifts.”
There’s a LOT of suspicion of “white men in suits” in Congo.
Yeah? And what century was King Leo in power? o_O
Someone has a grudge.
Cant imagine ‘why’, given the traditional European role in Africa, which amounted to exploitation of resources and killing any locals that objected.
It’s not like the white’s had to teach them much in the way of screwing over their neighbours or selling them to slavers
Oh, not saying Africa before the European influx was some utopia, but Europeans were guilty of the same things. They just had prettier (subjective) uniforms and better weapons (objective), with larger forces due to the land being able to support a higher population density, and more organization because it was required by the larger forces.
Slavery as a revenue source, though, that’s all on us. Yes, prisoners were taken in inter-tribal warfare, and used as forced labor. But there was no gain in keeping more prisoners than you actually had use for, they’d just be extra mouths to feed. It was outsiders that said ‘hey, we’ll buy them off you, its win/win for the both of us’ that turned it into a business.
You know except for the part where the Arabs had been enslaving Africans long before it even crossed a European mind.
And yet it was the whites who made it affordable and ended up selling them as household appliances. History. Just because it was white people who did it doesn’t mean you need to stick up for those ancient arsewipes, no one is blaming you.
So, you are saying that the old way of slaughtering (and eating) your captives was better? o_O
How about we just agree that all those things are bad, and it doesn’t matter which one is more bad?
Now pre-colonial Africa is supposed to have been full of cannibals? Really? Where did you study anthropology, and was it actually a basement full of lurid pulp magazines?
Actually, Wikipedia does point to quite some history of cannibalism in central Africa, even if most of the cited cases are in modern times. You were more right than I thought.
Slavery is older than written record, practiced by every ancient civilization you can name going back to ancient Mesopotamia. Arab slaves were often women who were used as domestic servants and wet nurses, is this sufficient to fit your designation of “household appliance”?
If whites made it profitable why did it even exist as a industry before unless you are utterly wrong in every way? I understand that your entire view is thought the tube of the Atlantic trade but that does not excuse your attempt to appear as some sort of wise peacemaker. This isn’t about me defending a particular people it’s about you picking them out just because they did it best.
Your enthusiasm is appreciated but do try not to act like an authority on things you don’t know much about, it’s considered very bad form.
Europeans hardly invented slavery, but the Trans-Atlantic slave trade was slavery on a scale that beat out anything that had been seen previously by orders of magnitude.
The point being?
mass production prince. mass production.
Yes, europe was very good at mass production.
If some other culture had invented mass production first, they’d have done the same thing.
Especially in the Congo/Zaire/Whatever-it’s-calling-itself-this-week area. King Leopold was one sick bastard.
Ooh! So Monday we finally get to see what nefarious lengths Deus is willing to go in order to get his way!
Please don’t be tickle torture…
I’m not sure if waving money under someone’s nose would constitute as “tickle torture,” but there does seem to be a correlation there. Just substitute money for a feather. But if they “subject” sneezes instead of laughs, it could get quite…messy.
Gotta say, love his purple trinity tie. Really validated my own fashion choices.
I believe the “hunted down like a dog” phrase refers to rabid dogs, who were indeed hunted down due to the threat they posed.
But then, it wasn’t for “sport,” as DaveB pointed out. When it was done against wolves, like LOwten suggested, it wasn’t for “sport’ then either; usually it was to reduce an increase in predators’ population levels. As livestock farmers settle into business, predatory species see it as a whole new prey species in large quantities, so yes, they’re going to breed more.
It’s to keep Nature balanced, not let it get thrown completely out of whack…What happens to human populations when predatory animals build up large populations? Yeah, humans get added to their list of prey too.
So even though LOwten was technically correct, it was still wrong to liken wolf hunting as a “sport.”
I should agree if they didn’t take wolf skins as trophies
Why not? Humans have treated each other the same way in the fight for resources. Taking slaves, taking property, the whole bit.
I don’t really see that as a point in humanity favour
I wasn’t condoning it…I was pointing out that it’s a consistent pattern of behavior.
are you advocating they waste the pelt or meat when hunting? use as much as possible of your prey is a good rule in my opinion.
Deus: “These are my ‘siblings’: Megan, Moe, Manfred (I prefer Manny) and Calvin (Call me Cal). They’re in charge of my… private security force.”
How many more pages is ther of this flashback of Deus?
About 179, counting the nested flashbacks to the respective childhoods of Deus and Indinge.
4. 3 of which are double pages cause I want to get back to Sydney’s antics too. :)
I sent the whole comic still flash back how meany years of that do we have left?
Actually the first few pages were a flash forward. :)
O_o
You win *this* round David Barrack…
Yeah,let’s get back to see what Sydney is up to…!
You mean, sleeping? Or puking up on the track?
I say that is nothing but samantics sir
Time is relative. As is your mom. I mean, she’s A relative, but, you know.
That’s a new way to insert a “Yer Mom” as an expletive…I’ll have to remember that.
;)
That’s not what your mom said about you.
Every thing in this universe is relative to every other thing in this universe, even if it’s only because both things happen to exist in the same universe. However, you can’t really define what that relationship is unless you compare both of those things to a known & consistent third thing. Not even Einstein could define the relationship between Mass & Energy without comparing them to a known & measured speed of Motion.
A more personal & individual example is that you can’t define the commonalities or differences (the relationship) between “in-laws” & “out-laws” unless you compare how they might be related to you (the constant)…
Since you have no known constant in comparing my own mom to myself, then you can’t figure out how anything she said relates to your statement.
;)
Oh BTW. As for your new avatar, I see you’ve gotten a new Dick transplant.
:D
boys sit in opposite corners! you can’t! why? round room? OK find a square room and sit in opposite corners.
“Sits on the ceiling”
“Except where policy impacts economic development” could be said shorter as “except always.”
He’ll probably be left with flag design, national anthem and what to make the obligatory big-ass statue out of.
When taking over a country, a figurehead can be very useful
That make amazing scapegoats.
I always thought it would be neat to see/read a story where, in the midst of total societal collapse, the useless whiny figurehead leader actually steps up and gets everything back in order- then shows just why his (or her) family were the hereditary monarchs in the first place.
I’m sure I’ve read something like that (and no, Wu from LoK doesn’t count- he immediately abdicated), but only ever as a sort of background noise.
I’m not sure just how much the protagonist matches your profile but have you read the spineward sectors novels?
it’s not really the same circumstances, but i liked John Dalmas’s “The Generals President”… the unlikely substitute for the POTUS turns around the country from the mess it was in at the time… as written in the 50’s, about the current timeframe…
David Weber and John Ringo’s “Empire of Man” series is basically this. On top of being a fun series. And the two authors do a pretty good job of balancing out the other’s flaws.
Shall we see Vale unleashed? I hope so : )
It would be interesting to see what she can actually do, but it might be quicker and easier for Deus just to pay off those guards standing behind Indinge.
That’s assuming he hadn’t already before even entering that ‘palace’
Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
And getting shot.
Having the range of an Orbital Bombardment Satellite at your disposal doesn’t hurt either…
Meh survived worse… unfortunately.
“Prepares the Supernova Cannon.”
“Starts target aquisition procedures.”
dismantles cannon and tisks DR.R for unacceptable behavior since those destroy planets.
“Brings Supernova cannons 2-10 online”
If you keep pulling these planet-busters out, you’re going to have to go back to XKCD.
I do not use such small caliber ammunition.
Takes several seconds for the change to reach ground from the low orbit.
May not be enough.
i doubt it… the wording of the narrators text implies that Indinge SR. is going to survive this encounter… AND be convinced to “join up” as it were… otherwise Deus would NOT be talking about it this way on National TV…
note, that i said nothing about the timing of his (probably) imminent demise and installation of his son as the country’s newest ruler…
heck, maybe Deus’s power is just like the “Pacifier Gun” from the movie “Sky High”… Indinge SR. doesn’t actually HAVE a SON… it is HIMSELF DE-AGED to a more, “compliant” age… and the only way to get back to his “proper” age is by playing along.
Wait, why wold you want to get back to your ‘proper’ age when you could re-live your live all over again and live for longer? o_O
possibly because the DE-aging process ALSO reverses your MEMORIES at the same time to what you knew at that age instead of what you know NOW…? if you think about it, it makes sense… you age and make new memories that are stored somehow in your brain, but then as the brain regresses in age, then those memories are ALSO removed and the “newest” memories you now have are the ones that were the ones that were encoded at that same time in his lifetime as his original time line (OTL) any NEW memories are now in the NEW time line (NTL) and he LITERALLY doesn’t KNOW what anything AFTER the age/memory regression stopped him at…
I take it this is the part where he presents a chest full of platinum?
I rather take it that Indige is not susceptible to bribing at this point.
Getting killed, well, that is something he’s likely still susceptible to…
That’s not guaranteed in this universe, as Achilles will be happy to demonstrate.
Yeah, he’s annoying about it. I at least have the good grace to be worse for wear from stuff.
I look forward to the day Achilles meets the one person or thing that can harm him (You know it exists somewhere). After nearly 20 years of invulnerability, his reaction will probably be hilariously unmanly.
My guess it comes in the form of an person who has the power to cancel out other superpowers. Max will, naturally, threaten to unleash this person on him whenever he starts grating on her nerves.
Yeah, about that? Just how tough is Maxi without her powers? Maybe the gold skin is toxic to her without it, or she could simply end up like that girl at the start of “Gold Finger”
My guess is Max would be very wary around such a person until she had a chance to figure out how it would affect her.
Still, the image of someone taking down Achilles by say, twisting his ear like some people do to troublesome kids is more appealing than it should be.
Yes, yes it is :D
How about a smack to the back of the head?
gibbs could make it work without harming those he smacked sooooo
The “Gibbs Smack” wasn’t designed to ‘hurt’, but to let the recipient know that they are being an idiot and to stop
Picture this scenario:
Max: Hey “Achilles heel,” hold on to Achilles for a moment.
Heel: Um, okay. *grabs Achilles, who immediately looks panicked*
Max: Perfect. *Dope smack* Thank you, Heel. It’s just so much more satisfying when her can feel it.
Bonus points if she turns around and sees a long line of people all queuching up for a shot at him. Possibly led by Sydney.
Maybe Max would need to be more wary without her powers, but she can still make up for the lack by being a trained & experienced military combatant…who has both HTH combat skill & no problems with handling conventional weaponry.
Actually, it would do Maxi (and the rest of Archon) to do some training with Achilles Heel (neat name, no matter what his, or her, real name is, that is what they will be known as :D) so that they don’t rely entirely on their powers and can even cope if they lost their powers in the middle of a conflict (if they manage to survive the initial loss of power, so to speak)
Using cash to subtly and skillfully take over from behind the scenes? Deus may be a Ferengi . . .
Meanwhile, it seems to me that most of the world would complain loud and long about an American businessman teaming up so openly with a bloodthirsty warlord who had just carried out a coup. I guess the government isn’t doing much about it though since he’s apparently a major supplier of arms and equipment to Archon.
“What are you complaining about?” Deus is heard to wonder. “I’m just building bridges and roads and schools over there, that’s all. Absolutely nothing else – I promise.”
True. It also sounds like he’s willing to spend the money to improve the citizen’s lives. Those who don’t oppose him. Since the infrastructure etc will pay him back in the long run, he can afford to look generous to the public eye
Machina Industries CEO personally steps in and saves flagging peace talks, convinces all parties to agree to “reparations” (no comment on where that reparation money came from or who it really went to). Machina Industries working with local startups (new subsidiary companies of Machina Industries) to rebuild infrastructure and sanitation facilities. X-Stream Security LLC. to provide close protection of NGO relief groups. X-Stream Security LLC., providing impartial oversight on refugee camps, officially recognized by the UN. Local startups hiring displaced refugees, Machina Industries providing matching funds.
Those Machina Industry guys are awesome, look at all the good work they’re doing in a dangerous unstable region. That Machina guy should receive a Nobel Peace Prize.
Ok, where did you learn the word aplomb? You have increased my vocabulary.
I learned it long enough ago that I don’t recall when I first heard it. Probably in a novel or comic though. That’s where the bulk of my “word of the day” type vocab comes from.
I hear ya’ on that.
I have no idea how many years it was between first reading the word “parsimonious” before I finally looked up the definition of it. I’d learned lots of words that way…That is, outside of the realm of “public education.”
My parents invested in a set of encyclopedias for my siblings and I back in the 80s along with a big goddamn dictionary and thesaurus. Whenever we would ask what a word meant, one of those bad boys would hit the desk and enlighten us. I attribute my reading comprehension and love of knowledge to those shelves of books.
yep, that bloody HUGE encyclopedia Britannica set my dad had was some of my “I’m bored and the parental units don’t allow me to do squat, so what shall i DO?” reading. that and the cook books on the same shelf.
My parents had some encyclopedias I think they got when they were in college, so by the time I was of reading age, there were certain facts in they which were amusingly out of date.
Ah, the classic “carrot and stick”‘approach. Offer them a carrot to do what you want. If they don’t accept give the carrot to someone to beat them to death with the stick and replace them with someone that likes carrots.
Is that how it works? I must have done it wrong before
well, it works for Pigs why wouldn’t it work for the humans as well?
Deus’ jaw is just so comically huge, especially compared to any other guy he’s standing next to. I feel like he should break out into one of Gaston’s songs.
‘Nooo Ooonee… Bribes like De-us noone lies like De-us no one gets on their jet plane and Flies like De-us!”
Double platinum!
and that’s just what the record jackets made out of…… record…. thin vinal or plastic disc played by dragging a needle along groves on it’s surface? OOH Come On! don’t just stare blankly your parents must have had some they showed you!
The question “Why is Archon doing business with Machina Industries” forces itself onto me, more and more. Are they trying to keep a potential enemy near? I dunno, Deus seems to be rather experienced in handling such relationships. And with Harem supporting him… to an extend we don’t fully know yet, she may be a double agent, but still… I dunno, maybe it’s still advantageous, maybe even for both sides, to play fair… but… it’s surely something Archon needs to care about.
It appears that, thus far, Machina Industries hasn’t done anything overtly ‘evil’. And if the U.S. Govt tried to only do business with Corporations that didn’t have some questionable overseas business models, the list would be -really- short. In general, the U.S. seems to be willing to overlook/forgive a lot, as long as its not being done to Americans.
Well, strictly speaking the U.S. government is only obligated to protect Americans. It’s up to other governments to protect their own citizens.
*Gasp* It’s all so clear now, such a devious ploy:
Step 1) Allow company to affectively control foreign country via dubious practices
Step 2) Investigate company on allegations of unsound business practices
Step 3) Seize company and all assets, putting them under government control
Step 4) Install American-controlled puppet-leader
Still, steps 1-3 are better than “Claim WMDs, invade, ???, profit”
If Deus is half as intelligent as he is coming across, you scenario will not work.
once basic infrastructure is up all Deus needs to do is move his HQ. to Galytn.
That puts his company out of reach to U.S. law enforcement and taxes.
Show me where he has done anything ‘evil’
You’re kidding right. Now illegal, I bet anyone would be hard pressed to find that of him.
Show. Me. Where. He. Has. Done. Anything. ‘EVIL’!!
The fact that he apparently employs people to kill other people isn’t enough?
You mean, like the Government? o_O
I guess it all comes down to motive then. If you’re sending out people to kill in order to make yourself rich and powerful like Deus is, then you’re evil. If you’re sending out people to kill in order to stop the mass beheadings and throat cuttings, the burning of live people in cages, and the bombings and shootings of innocent men, women and children, then you’re fine.
Well, Deus was already rich and powerful
And lord knows, when you’re a self-professed megalomaniac, there really is such a thing as being rich enough and powerful enough.
NOT!
parry, riposte, touche’. good good now take you’re blade and strike him down and takes place on the dark side. um who’s turn was it to provide enticing treats and was it bacon or gourmet coffee this week?
Has catering bring in the “Treatmobile”.
A double long semi trail of equipped with a complete gourmet kitchen.
Seriously, what we’ve seen so far makes Deus look like a downright humanitarian in comparison to the stuff we KNOW Halliburton and Academi (nee Xe, nee Blackwater) do on a regular basis–yet they both continue to score lucrative government contracts with the U.S.
Sounds like he chose… Poorly
I do hope we cut away from the flashback at this point, leaving the precise circumstances of Indinge’s change of stance ambiguous.
Deus has what he calls a Private Security Force who are evidently ready and willing to kill for him . . .
Some of us have been speculating that he’s more mischievous and goofy than a real evil-doer. I think this news firmly establishes him as a goofy evil-doer.
I believe the phrase you are looking for is “Affably Evil”.
no he is plainly corporate/capitalist neutral.
Is it strange that I want deus to basically be like Tomas crown? In that he’s not villainous so much as dramatic, and in the future a real “evil” (as opposed to show) villain hijacks a plot of his forcing him to work with the good guys.
The guy’s obviously a super and you’re threatening him…yeah that’s a good idea.
I’m not sure if supers were well known enough to be around at that point in time. Even if they were just because someone looks built like a greek god and has a fancy scar does not prove that someone is an actual super. Sure a super is according to in-universe lore more likely to look like that but there must be people around who do and yet don t have superpowers.
I’m not even sure it is proven yet that Deus has any powers but I might have missed that. Still at this point in time I find it more likely that those guards Indige Sr has around have been bribed and Deus has a deal with Jr or that his “security force” is nearby and ready to deal with the situation.
His superpower is money.
I’d be willing to accept that and seeing what the Bat made out of that he still could be terrifying but as far as I know it also isn’t yet proven that is his only power so I’ll reserve judgement.
Its fun to imagine a video of this conversation, with Deus mugging for the flashback-cam while the king sighs in exasperation.
Also, everyone seems to be acting like Deus had him killed next. It seems like the next line from him was probably “Oh, sure, I’ll contribute to your war chest. How’s sound, for a start?” I mean, this dude is giving hobos millions just to see what they do with it. Tossing money around seems to be his primary MO.
more like he gives the crown a discount on mercs that DXM (deus X machina) has available to hire.
Do you know what would make this dramatic scene more dramatic? Dramatic thunder and lightning in the background.
*sigh* someday :)
he hasn’t gotten the contract to INSTALL that … YET…
This is where he got the idea for that little gadget :D
Why do I get the feeling Deus is talking to this guys son?
Whoop-Ass commencing in 5…
Well Indinge Sr. was an uncommon man. Indinge Jr. isn’t quite the man his father was. I expect him to say so at dear papa’s funeral service. After all, there is no way to live up to the standards of such an uncommon man, but he will do his best for his people.
If Deus actually managed to pull this off without his private security force turning into a private mass murder force, then frankly he’d be one of the most competent and morally upstanding figures the planet has ever seen. The “we have learned not to trust white men in suits” line is a massive understatement even for something intended to be a massive understatement. If you ever want to whip yourself into an absolute frothing rage, look up the history of pretty much any western nation in Africa.
Or more practical figure.
Realising that treading the path of least effort will always drag you down and never raise is a hard skill.
But if it is true that he’s a kind of long-lived specie, then going that path would be simply “too boring” for him and he’d save such force for strategical manipulation (i.e. killing someone stubborn enough to not see his way of things, important enough to cause a stir, but not a figurehead of the state) rather than tactical (killing figurehead of the state is always a bad choice, especially if you are aiming to take over said state – there simply going to be no end to rumors, and someone may actually believe in truth).
Didn’t see a note for it, so will point out the first panel typo. I believe “How you will…” should be “How will you…”, if I’m not mistaken. Sorry if I’m wrong.
Maybe, but it reads just as fine as it is
If you’re willing to indulge wordplay, people do “hunt dogs,” in the sense — and this is actually a turn of phrase that is used in the real world — that it means “hunting with the aid of dogs.” Same with hawking.
“No, Indinge, I do not promise you the moon and stars… I promise you the Sun. With me, your country lives. And without, you die.” Deus’s next line.
I wonder if you set that sentence up like that on purpose.
With me, your country lives, but I’m leaving your personal fate in the dark. Without me, you personally die
Setting up client states on in this case a private one, not under any govt auspices that we can see. Depends on who is in charge in the govt as to how much freedom he has.
At this point, shouldn’t the warlord Indinge and the interviewer C.C. St Croix start to appear in the Who’s Who? I don’t recall what DaveB’s requirements for inclusion were.
Namely, be a reoccurring (and living) character
CeeCee may or may not return as a second rival to Suzie, but Indinge is ancient news (and more than likely won’t be seen again, alive anyway, after this flashback interview)
I love the “Oh you mean specifically” line.
Small error fix:
[Take credit for it to recruit more like minded people to your cause or it it goes badly and a bunch of innocents get killed]
if it
_______________
That said. I don’t blame him for on;y having one move in his super villain repertoire. Everyone needs to start somewhere. He just started with the hyperdramatic swivel. Before moving onto a ‘dramatic thunder machine’, and that funny thing his face does when he laughs.
A part of me thinks his repeat business thing is a bluff since anyone who sees him laugh gets that face if he’s excited enough.
Still all in all I can’t wait to see what happens next with Dues and the warlord. It’ll be interesting that’s for sure.
Looks like The Indinge-enous population isn’t taking up the offer.
” I’m not comfortable doing business with all these guns to my head. Prove your gun is the biggest while solving that issue for me and then maybe I’ll deal with you, if your gun survives. ”
Sounds like a smart bargain for Indinge. Zero obvious risk or investment, except of course he’s allowing a foreign military power to dig into his territory. Deus gains a toehold of legitimacy and doesn’t have to fight Indinge’s forces while he consolidates power.
– I’m not paying mercenaries to fight. I could get anyone for that. I’m paying for men who will leave once the fighting’s over