Grrl Power #366 – Successfully unwarranted
Back in the day before DNA tests and mass spectrometers, it’s plausible that a vigilante could maintain a secret identity, especially if you have an environment where the bad guys have some weird unspoken rule about not unmasking them the instant they get knocked out, because otherwise why wouldn’t they? But with modern forensic science, it would basically be impossible. The first time a vigilante gets their lip split in a fight, the authorities would have their DNA. Swab it off someone’s knuckle, from under a fingernail, or a little spatter on a jacket or wall. Spit, skin cells, heck, just capturing them walking down a hall could be enough for gait analysis which could enormously narrow down a list of suspects.
Edit: I just wanted to add this since a few people are pointing it out; I know getting someone’s DNA doesn’t let you immediately identify them if you don’t already have a match on file, but it’s a slam dunk once you do get that match. And if they have a brother or uncle that’s a felon, then you’re suddenly a lot closer to knowing who you’re after. Plus, if you find the same DNA at 20 different scenes, then you have evidence that the same person was involved. Otherwise when you catch the guy, he could say “Oh I only was at the one scene you have evidence for, in fact I’m not even “Vigilante Mask” just a fan of his.”
In the case of someone like Batman, it can be argued that the cops kind of rely on him unofficially and don’t work too hard to unmask him. Also Bruce Wayne probably has the resources and contacts to have his DNA and fingerprints purged from any databases, but someone like Spider-Man? Unmasking him would probably be trivial if the authorities really wanted to.
The only way to avoid being identified would be to fight crime in one of those level 5 hazmat suits, or police the whole battle area in a super OCD manner for hairs and blood and bits of dirt you tracked in from your garden, recover all your Weasel-a-rangs, even the one that slid under the newpaper press or was deflected out the window by the ninja the bad guys hired to beat you in their desperation. Also you’d have to fight quietly and hope no one calls the cops on you for the noise so you have time to clean up. No stopping daylight robberies for you! Just brawls in abandoned warehouses.
Of course I can’t mention superheroes with OCD without linking OCD-Girl! Unfortunately it’s posted with some blogging front end and I can’t figure out how to view the comics at a legible resolution. If anyone does, post in the comments and I’ll put it up here, cause the comic is pretty funny.
Panel three obviously contains some other cameos. Usually if they’re from regular “big” media sources, I like to leave it up to you guys to root them out, cause it’s fun being the person who recognized the obscure thing, but these cameos are small or single team web projects, so I’ll link them here.
The two guys on the top row are just randos I made up for that panel, but many of you should recognize Spinnerette there in the middle. If you haven’t ever checked it out it’s a well drawn and funny webcomic.
On the bottom row is the “Ask a Ninja” guy which was a very funny but unfortunately short lived youtube series… though checking the channel just now I see he’s still slowly updating, or at least remastering his old videos, so… I guess I know what I’m catching up on during lunch.
Next to him is not Carmen San Diego believe it or not, it’s Ronni Kane from another webcomic called Giant Girl Adventures. Guess what her power is?
Weird having only one person in the Who’s Who after a possibly record breaking one on the previous page.
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
SuperheroThey're super, thanks for asking!
Meatspace ComicSeriously these are awesome. Check 'em out!
Not UpdatingNo longer updating or only updates sporadically, but definitely worth reading.
SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
Recall the Marble Maiden being mentioned previously as a local vigilante.
Her ‘selfie’ thing very strongly suggests to me that she uses her powers for the ego-boost and the celebrity status, not out of any special sense of helping others or doing what’s right. I could be completely wrong about this, of course – reading too much into only one picture. But, if even partly true, being required to join ARCHON is probably going to be a nasty shock for her – from a solo celebrity to a teammember. I suspect that she may ‘not play well with others’ and, in certain ways, be the antithesis of Sydney.
Guess we’ll see,
where was she mentioned previously?
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/366
It was just a passing mention. We didn’t really learn anything about her.
…. Except that she was a vigilante, who was well-known at least locally.
She could both do it out of wanting to help others AND as an ego boost. It doesnt have to be one or the other, and doing something for your own self-worth doesnt diminish that she does heroic stuff, right?
Possibly. It depends. Guessing we’ll find out, one way or another, soon enough.
does that mean two months or three?
Honestly I don’t particularly see why working as part of the primary team should be mandatory to be part of Archon. The point of Archon is to ensure that people aren’t assuming that competence is optional if you have super powers, that people are answerable for deliberate misuse of their powers, and that when you are needed you can be deployed. There’s room in there for people who operate solo or in pairs.
They are probably trying to keep people from taking the law into their own hands. and there also isn’t any actual protection for people with super powers like the second amendment. So Archon wants to get ahead of any legislation and protect supers before someone starts talking ‘interment camps’. Also with all the supers together they can train them and send them out on separate missions so they may very well be working in smaller groups. Think sending five 6 man SEAL teams versus an entire army division, it takes less time and resources to transport, insert, and extract them and it cost less in money, plus they can keep ARCHON small and centralized
+1
It takes a white cop longer to throw a black student across a classroom than it takes a black student to get up and leave the classroom when a white cop asks.
What does that have to do with anything? Particularly since it doesn’t take any time at all for a cop to decide to not commit assault and battery on a kid.
seems like someone just wanted to be an asshole and start a flamewar
Welcome to comic land. Where real life does not intrude. Leave real life out in the wild to free roam
Yes, please.
Ooh, any relative of the Iowa idputmynames?
Yorp. No.
No it doesn’t.
Not sure if it’s been asked yet, but I’m sort of curious about Marble Maiden’s M.O. When she’s not fighting crime, does she just stay at home, out of the view of the public, wear a very comprehensive disguise, or just turn into a flesh-and-blood human as part of her ability set?
I’m figuring she’s a “Colossus” type (Someone who can change their body to an inorganic state, usually with an increase in strength)
And running around wearing that white leather outfit under her normal clothes.. rawr.
I’m thinking that would still run the chance of her leaving DNA from before her transition or a stray hair that fell on her clothes that didn’t turn to stone (?) Idunno :-P – maybe she can change the color and pattern of her skin to flesh tone (?)
So, it’s not actually illegal in general to act in defense of others, right? All of these people have overstepped the real-world law in some way, rather than there being a special law against superheroic activity?
This depends a LOT on circumstance.
In general, though, deliberately seeking out violent criminals to beat the tar out of is illegal in most parts of the US, if not all. (I can’t speak for all)
If you arrive at the scene of a felony in progress (i.e. you’re stopping them, not punishing them), where innocent people are in danger, and you use a reasonable amount of force to stop them or effect a citizen’s arrest, I’d like to know with specific citations what state’s law cares about how you got there.
You’ve also got to get it through a jury.
I think they are referring to the law against vigilantism, which is a civilian individual or group acting as a replacement/alternative to recognized law enforcement. If you stop a single crime, its usually not a problem unless it can be proven that you were actively looking for it. Even then, you’ll probably get off lightly if you defend yourself properly (possibly just a note saying “watch for vigilantism” or whatever equivalent).
However, if evidence exists to suggest that you are actively hunting down criminals or regularly stopping their abilities on a planned, not incidental, basis, you might be noted down as vigilantist.
This goes for patrolling the streets nightly as well, and similar things you often see superheroes do in movies and comics.
I have no idea what the punishments for vigilantism are, but a cease-and-desist is very likely, as well as a fine depending on the ratio of violence/lawbreaking you used compared to the weight of the crimes you stopped.
If you stopped 3 murders and 5 rapes by doing little more than putting the perpetrators asleep, I’m sure they’d let you off with a warning (at least the first time).
However, if you stopped 5 minor shop theft attempts by beating the perpetrators half to death and destroying property, you can likely expect a heavy fine (and possibly a prison sentence) in addition to needing to pay for the damaged property.
If you do the first situation regularly, you may be asked to join the law enforcement departments (though as a recruit, like everyone else). Refusing to join but continuing to perform vigilantism will mean as much as a prison sentence in the long run. And in this universe that would probably mean a field team from Archon being sent in.
scratch the law enforcement department things in this universe, they’d be referred to Archon of course.
It is possible to get around the vigilante laws with citizen’s arrest and self-defense, if you are careful, at least in Seattle. There is a real-world superhero group named Rain City Superhero Movement, led by a guy named Phoenix Jones. They wear costumes and everything, but they have logical reasons for doing so. They also wear body armor.
They wind up in court a lot, both as defendants and as witnesses. They stick closely to the self-defense laws, and several would-be robbers have gotten the crap beaten out of them AND gotten an additional assault charge. Every member is either MMA or ex-military. It’s pretty cool. They’re really careful; the three big laws that are relevant are citizen’s arrest, self-defense, and excessive force. While they do actually patrol the streets, they are legally classified as a neighborhood watch group, I think.
I think the big line with vigilanteism is burglary. It’s legal to stop a robbery, especially if you can come to the aid of the person being robbed and get the robber to attack you, allowing you to use self-defense. Coming to someone’s aid is tricky, and a clever robber could ignore you, but the law gets murky there. In the case of a burglary, the only relevant law is citizen’s arrest, and that only comes into play after the crime is committed.
It is illegal to stop a burglary–that’s vigilanteism, and also the most common crime that comic-book superheroes stop. Robbery is murky unless you can get the robber to attack you, but if the person being robbed asks for help, there are relevant laws in some places. Any violent crime, really; rape comes to mind.
Stopping someone from committing a crime is where the law draws the line: that is illegal, and vigilanteism. You can arrest someone after they commit a crime, and violent crimes can be stopped while in progress because initiating violence is illegal, but you can’t do anything to someone until they have broken the law, even if it’s obvious that they are in the process of doing so; that is the job of the police. Theoretically, you could stop a burglary-in-progress with citizen’s arrest for B&E, but you’d have to commit B&E yourself to physically get to the burglar(s).
It’s not illegal to act in defense of others, no.
In a citizen’s arrest, you can still be found guilty of any underlying felonies or misdemeanors that you commit while in the act of making the citizen’s arrest, though.
For example, if you break into a bank to stop bank robbers who were trying to rob the vault, you can still be found guilty of breaking and entering. B&E is ‘breaking and entering premises that are not your own with the intent to commit a felony therein.’ And TECHNICALLY, if you break into a place in order to beat up other people, that can meet the requirements. However, in most cases, a prosecutor will not go through with it because most juries won’t understand the difference, and will say ‘they entered in order to make a citizen’s arrest and stop criminals, not to just commit assault and/or battery.’ Not to mention that the bank would be unlikely to press charges or testify against the vigilante that just saved their bank from burglary.
With a robbery, it’s even harder to claim that a vigilante would not fall under citizen’s arrest and defense of self and others – because a bank robbery means that there were other people in the bank at the time, which usually implies that the bank was open and therefore a public place, and therefore there was no breaking and entering as a core part of the requirements of an underlying felony. Violence or threat of violence against another person is one of the core requirements of a robbery (as opposed to a burglary) and therefore it would be VERY easy to say it’s defense of others, since… well…. it’s defense of others. :)
So yeah, you got it pretty much correct, Shen.
The short version is, you’re encouraged to act as a good citizen, if you see somebody being robbed, you are encouraged to try to aid them, either in surviving the robbery, calling the police, or, yes, beating the tar out of the robber, although there is a ‘reasonable’ limits extent (Example: If you’re a prowrestler, you’re expected to be able to, and attempt to pin the robber, and hold them down, rather then do something like break their skull with a punch, as that would be an over-reaction, although there are exceptions to this based on personal risk, engaging with somebody who has a gun, for example, can be entirely illegal, as that is not a reasonable response at all), it’s a sort of ‘extended self defense’ as I understand it, you are to act for others as you would wish them to act on your behalf in similar circumstances.
I’ve pretty much only been told the short version, personally. However, searching for a fight, deliberately trying to harm others, or, for an example from the American History, gathering together a mob to strike out against a criminal without due process is highly illegal. Likewise, using inherently lethal force without due cause, although due cause can be variable, it’s illegal to shoot a man snatching that old ladies purse for no reason, however, if that old lady is -your- grandma, mother etc., in 9/10 states you can get away with it….if you own a gun license and have a decent jury.
Marble Maiden’s problem in partic is that she is acting as a vigilante, which is to say, she isn’t playing to the governments rules, which means that it is entirely possible, just for an example, that she kicked the grease out of two regular dudes, put masks on them, tied them up, then took a selfie. Until there’s been a trial, or other evidence going otherwise, it creates alot more confusion, however, as she’s a super, she’s also expected to act more dramatically, just as off duty cops are -expected- to react more or less as cops per the law, which means they have alot of the same rights on or off the job, although it also means, in theory, if not in practice, they can receive trouble for not acting in such a manner.
Finally, there are more rules, laws, and shifting systems amongst the varying states then we currently have the ability to count, many archaic, many overturned, many twisted and corrupted. Proclaiming that any singular person has not broken the law is a falsehood, a plea of innocence is guilty of wasting the judge’s time, in truth, as there’s literally always something thanks to the details if somebody’s willing to go deep enough into the literature of federal law. This is not unique to the USA, many -many- countries have this problem, and it usually occurs when the government in question becomes a grouping larger then a few thousand miles. Marble Maiden might be, just for examples, breaking the laws on public decency of her particular area. “That’s a nudity law”, not…quite. Public decency applies to anything you wouldn’t want your kids to see. Simple acts of violence, even heroic violence as this is, might be too ‘real’, and too dramatic to allow. Of course, by that same token, she might be in the clear…if she reported them and her intent, or if she was part of a superhero group. Likewise, marble’s not a common material, so if they wanted to reach (Which would be, strictly speaking, unnecessary with the criminal’s ability to pull assault + battery + illegal restraint charges if she got them before they made any announcements) they could actually claim she was evading trade laws, stupid and silly as that might be, as her body is made of a material that isn’t exactly native of the Americas, although that would -primarily- be for keeping her in the area and in the public eye, forcing her to talk with them instead of continuing to dodge.
As she has not performed -lethal- extents of violence, any case on her would be risky, however, as she has been tracking the criminals one way or another that allows her to act so continuously as a vigilante, this means she’s either part of a network (Which causes the mob problem from earlier, even if it’s precisely controlled, the government doesn’t approve of such behavior for good reason, as precisely controlled might start to be determined by skin color, or ‘that annoying old man who spent an hour and a half in the checkout line’)
Finally, the government can actually call out the ‘reasonable’ response clause I pointed out earlier. When anyone can have powers, of any sort, at any time, which you can’t necessarily identify beyond -maybe- the person having chiseled abs, breasts the size of your skull, and a hairless body, you can’t deny that this universe has magic. What if she came across some random criminal who just so happened to have stone based magic? Or stone control magic? Or somebody wanted to make a publicized point by killing off this marble lady and came -prepared- and predicted her better then the government did? These are all legitimate concerns, which is part of the reason for the vigilante-ism denying laws, while acting as a hero -is- legal and fine to -some- extent (As, please realize, hitting the letter l on my keyboard might -actually- be illegal with how the laws have been moderated and ‘controlled’, at this time of night), the fact is, there is a legitimate risk to people who antagonize criminals, which can in fact encourage more criminal, more violent, and hell, more lethal behavior, in many ways. Especially if you’re doing it for petty crimes, minor acts, and her behavior indicates that she’s more then willing to react that way to excessively minor acts in point of fact.
I would like to note, however, that given she actually included her name and everything short of her address, there is a possibility, albeit slim, that she’s actually trying to get Arc to recruit her and just doesn’t know the channels. Truth be told, it doesn’t seem like something that you’d be able to easily/instantly find out, and doesn’t want to act as part of a mundane police force, either due to not wanting to dedicate to the training (In which case she’s in for a rude awakening in about 10 days I’d estimate) or wanting the large paystub that such a career enables as opposed to the relatively small paystub from a military, police, or other career. In either case, she’s not a person Arc -actually- wants on their team, as in the latter case, she’s mercenary, which means that if things ever go bad, she’s looking for the exit, and not attempting to act in a manner that befits the uniform (Although the training might kick that out) or in the former case, she might be unwilling to dedicate to joining Arc at -all- thanks to the rigors of its’ disciplinary requirements.
…When I started typing this I had two paragraphs planned, and I’m almost certain it showed. Sorry if I went recursive, TLDR: She’s broken the law one way or another that they can almost certainly catch her on.
Arianna dealt with that way back during the press conference:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/955
I have no idea how you think “vigilantism is just as illegal if you have super powers as if you don’t” is sufficient to clarify anything, considering that in the real world vigilantism is not a specifically defined offense but rather is a broad category with no legal meaning that encompasses a wide range of legal and illegal acts.
For that matter, it strongly implies (though does not fully state – it’d be a damn odd thing to leave out, though, in context) that no new “vigilantism laws” were enacted to address the sudden existence of a high-profile group of people inclined to engage in those activities.
Arianna was talking at a press conference, to the general public, she was not speaking in a court room. Therefore it is reasonable to use language understood by the audience. Plus the conference had a lot to cover, and only a finite time. Thus necessitating compressing long-winded pedantic language, into a more compact form.
“Vigilantism laws” is a description encompassing laws designed to counter vigilantism. For instance those covering ‘impersonating a police officer’, ‘wrongful arrest’ and ‘false imprisonment’. Although many general-purpose ones also get used in combating it. Such as ‘perverting the course of justice’ and ‘obstruction of a police investigation’.
One of the biggest problems with vigilantism is that their actions can destroy evidence, remove a criminal from the crime scene and otherwise prevent a conviction from being secured. Far from helping justice, vigilantes obstruct it!
Putting on a spandex outfit and a mask does not give an unqualified person the right to dispense justice. All they are doing is using force to impose their will on others. Not just the person they accuse, and convict, on their own judgement. But they also deny the rest of society the right to ensure justice is done.
Further having super powers just magnifies the force they use, it does not justify it! However no extra laws are needed to regulate that, as the existing ones cover it fine.
Batman and Spiderman do not have a special wisdom, which grants them more insight than the twelve members of a jury. They do not have defence and prosecution teams to question their opinions and point out an alternative way to see a situation. If they throw someone off a roof, to their deaths, they are not allowing an appeal process. Nor are they accountable for their actions.
Replace the supers, named above, with “thugs” and “mobs” and the paragraph remains true.
guess one issue there would be with marble maiden’s style of vigilantism – busting the bad guys then fleeing the scene. a citizen acting in defense of others would stay on scene and then testify to the cops. (could be applied to non super vigilantes too)
Arianna’s statement during the press conference would, at least most of the time, never work out in archon’s favor in court, although I could see most vigilantes winding up voluntarily working for ARCHON for a variety of reasons – no risk of criminal prosecution for underlying felonies and/or misdemeanors, possible immunity against collateral damage (like police and soldiers usually have), safety in numbers, and that huge paycheck for doing the same thing they’d be normally doing.
The stopping vs. punish line, by the way, is totally hilarious from a retail security standpoint. Security personnel (plainclothed or uniformed) are enjoined to stop shoplifting in progress, but never to pursue and punish, but also never if there is a risk of bodily harm.
The general joke was that we were literally payed to do nothing. See a perp walking away with an item? He might be intending to pay for it, even if he shoves it in his pants. Don’t bother the customers. See him walk out without paying for it? How do you know he didn’t put it back on the shelf? You going to restrain and search him? Don’t racially profile! See a “customer” literally taking money from the till? Don’t confront or pursue,, injury might result. Why are shrinkage rates up? What do we pay you for?
If you replaced the security personnel of a typical jewelry or department store with a phone on a table that could only call 911 you’d get the same benefit. The circumstances under which they act are hilariously limited.
Yep. When I was in retail, policy was that if we saw someone stealing something, all we were allowed to do was offer to ring them up for that. That was it. We could walk next to them making that offer until they got to the door, but could not follow them out.
When the XBox first came out, someone came in, picked up 2, and walked out the door. His only response to offers to ring him up? “You gotta do what you gotta do.”
He walked across the parking lot, down the street and around a corner after that, which took him out of security camera range with nothing to ID him with. Doubt that they ever caught him.
Right clicking and then hitting View image let me see that comic full sized. You have to look at them one by one with out being able to just hit next but it works.
OCD Girl Comic: What He said..
What a delightful name.
Personally, I’m rooting for the vigilantes. Arc is scary enough if you look at the power they are given and the people involved. In a less light hearted comic strip they’d be downright terrifying.:)
Main reason why it is illegal to be a vigilante? They are stepping outside of the law in doing so, if they really want to help, then join the Academy, or offer your services as a consultant
And in most cases, the ‘vigilante’ hasn’t had any real formal training (outside of maybe an hour a week at the local gym), certainly not in Law (or they would know that what they are doing is illegal)
I find “vigilante / mob justice” (ie. vigilantes gather in a mob, then do some “justice”) much more frightening, thank you.
Accountability, both at the individual and the organizational level, is a major part of how ARC operates – that much is extremely clear.
I half agree.
Vigilante mob justice would certainly be more terrifying than ARCSwat. Its one of the most terrifying things in the world.
On the other hand, what on earth gives you any notion that accountability is any part of how ARC operates, at all? They are a gang that enjoys soldier cosplay.
:-P
Although that would describe Halo sure enough. Mind you, although she joined it for the uniform of a soldier cosplayer, Sydney has the heart of a hero!
What on earth gives me any notion that accountability is any part of how ARC operates, at all?
I dunno, silly little things like READING THE STRIP.
Government, the ultimate in hypocrisy.
Do what they tell you to do.
Not what they do.
To point out what 7thSeaLord’s talking about, this page, text block in the bottom left corner…
Vigilante superheroes IRL would be TERRIFYING! Especially if they’re of the “Punisher” sort.
Jaywalking, eh? *BLAM BLAM BLAM*
Governmental corruption?
Shoot city hall with a cannon.
Works for me. Plus, the need for people to help with the reconstruction effort would temporarily increase the local job market.
Mortuaries & Funeral homes would find business booming too. Until they start thinking they can rip people off cause they got so much business, then it’ll be booming for a different reason…
Mortician embalm thyself.
For littering, you break out the flamethrower.
And god help you if you illegally copy an MP3. I hear they’d be bringing back drawing and quartering for that.
Piracy merits hanging.
From the highest yard-arm in the fleet!
I am SO looking forward to Archon encountering (and preferably getting thier ass handed to them) by some non-psychotic vigilantes that would prefer to stop crime WITHOUT joining the military, thank you very much. As it is, the whole “total victory” in the vehemence incident is leading us dangerously into Mary Sue territorry.
not really total victory, and the victory itself was more of a hail mary by sydney’s OCD brain than anything else. i mean, archon is SUPPOSED to be better than everyone else, they have the heavy hitters, they have the training, they have equipment, support, backup, and style. there are comics where the villains have to always put the heroes in situations where there is no clear win, but i like this as a refreshing change of pace. i’ll take a spoonful of mary-sue medicine if it gets me my sugary treat of wisecracking, superpowered awesomeness. not every comic has to be gritty or tragic. sometimes, the good guys win handily, and i don’t see that very often
They don’t have to join ARCHON, but they do have to stop partaking in illegal activities, which vigilantism is!!
I’m unconvinced you know what a Mary Sue is, nor a Total Victory. Vehemence kicked ARCHON’s collective ass, and was only beaten by smart use of the magic and energy-blocking properties of Sydney’s shield in a potentially deadly gambit.
Vigilantes have zero accountability, especially masked vigilantes whose identities are unknown. If you can’t see why this is a problem, and want ARCHON to get “put in its place” by vigilantes, I feel like you’ve been missing the point of this comic. It looks at the superhero genre with the perspective of a government that decides that instead of trying to regulate and monitor people with superpowers, they should instead regulate superpowers only in terms of their use in combat; the government has no problem with supers unless they’re breaking the law, just like any other citizen. ARCHON exists because sometimes the people breaking the law– which includes vigilantes, for reasons of accountability– are going to be supers.
And anyway, what you’re saying makes no sense. I think most non-psychotic vigilantes would jump at the chance to do what they’re passionate about, get paid phat cash for it, get famous, and NOT get body-checked by Maxima.
I think there’s going to start developing a faction that since they’re not too terribly keen on the military in real life are going to side with Vigilantes. For a few reasons, while in real life vigilantes are nasty and ugly pieces of work, comics have romanticized them. Even the Punisher, who is pretty damn close to what a real life vigilante would be like, is romanticized to an extent.
There’s always people that like to buck the system. They don’t like the system of laws and rules or what have you whether they have a anti-government stance, general anarchy where they believe in rule of the strong, or an anti-establishment attitude.
The lone hero standing against a group of equally powered people is always a great story. We root for the underdog and desire to see them victorious. Die Hard would not have been nearly as good a story if it was reversed and a vault robber was trying to destroy an office building filled with cops who caught and arrested him shortly after.
I say let them side with the Vigilantes in story, even though in real life a non-psychotic vigilante would fall apart with a mental breakdown the second he accidentally shot a child because he missed.
They don’t have to join the military, unless you consider your local police department part of the military, or Security Guards, or heck, construction companies!!
Personally,I think the construction companies are the way to go. Archon is full of nuts and they insure there is always going to be consistent work.
The Speedster & Brawn construction company: “Yeah, it’s the two of us, rebuilding your buildings and infrastructure, in two days or less or it’s on your clients!”
That’s not super fair. During the fight there was actually a lot of talk the other way. Winning a fight doesn’t make characters Mary Sue. Arc was more powerful than their foes, and triumphed. What else were you expecting to happen? No one died on either side because comics, artist addressed that in his comments about super strength ramp up.
Power alone does not guarantee victory.
The ability to use it in a proper and effective manner is a necessity.
Er….
How the heck was the Vehemence fight ‘Mary Sue’ territory?
In fact… the Vehemence fight was the complete OPPOSITE of Mary Sue territory (for Archon, at least). If anything, Vehemence was becoming a Villain Sue. NOT Archon.
While you could call that a victory, it was a victory against a disorganized mob mostly using one-on-one tactics. This would not fly against a Dr. Doom-level opponent, a fact Dave B. knows very well. But it would be poor pacing indeed to just throw an untested team-without-teamwork up against a foe that’s always five moves ahead of you. You gotta ramp up to that sort of thing.
Now I’ll go ahead and say that, had I powers, I wouldn’t join up either, mostly due to my horrendous problems with authority figures. But the military model for teamwork in combat is time-tested, and certainly a realistic approach.
People use Mary Sue too much. It would be hard to convince me that the fight was Author’s Pet territory much less Mary Sue.
The whole DNA thing reminds me of a real life incident. For about 2 years german police was searching for “the phantom”, a woman whose DNA was found at many many crime places and who was thought to have robbed, hurt and killed many people.
Turns out in the factory where they produced the special q-tips to collect DNA a worker was not taught enough about her job, and when she was packaging those q-tips she used her hand without wearing a glove to push bundles of q-tips into the packaging, accidentally putting her DNA onto each of them.
TY (although I gotta credit Spider Robinson for first introducing the word and the joke to me…)
^— @Bgrunge —^
We are getting lots of interesting avatars appearing here nowadays.
*wags tail happily*
Judge Penguin :D
I AM THE COLD HARD LAW…
Sorry, had to be said…
Judge Penguin sentences you to six months in the Ice-o Cube, perp!
You’ll never catch me…
*Flies off in RC-fake-drone mode, transforms elsewhere then uses different Pretender face…*
Oh my god Spinny!!!!
If there was a crossover, oh my god
I want a crossover, mostly i want to see Spinny and Sydney geeking out over comics and movies
And snickering around Maxi, making Maxi all paranoid about what they are snickering about :D
And Math getting burned by Super Milf
Zeph is reporting to the group that he does not know where Marble Maiden is. So is he saying that he has lost his marbles?
(Sorry, someone had to use this joke at some point)
At least he is not talking with a mouth full of Marbles (that’s Dabbles’ job :P)
Boom boom.
Insert joke about going hard on her.
Fortunately Halo has the balls to beat Marble Maiden at any game.
Let’s just hope she never has a psychotic episode, then we’d be dealing with Marble Madness.
Although it hasn’t been shown yet, I wonder if there are any wealthy supra-genius inventors that may have created encompassing suits of powered armor (a la Iron Man). (Maybe a renegade, malcontent inventor working for a drug cartel? That gives the wealth to make the object, although acquiring the materials may trigger some government detection… Who knows?)
In such a case, like with HazMat suits, DNA becomes irrelevant, too. Plus, depending on the tech involved, local recorded/electronic/digital evidence (CCTV, smartphone cameras, bank cameras, etc.) may be disrupted when the armor is in use, bringing an added layer of anonymity/obfuscation to the vigilante.
In the meantime, Mr. Barrack, my hat’s off to you…this is, by far, my favorite super-hero graphic story!
Deux DaeusThe guy with the X scar on his face is the nearest contender we have so far. Ignoring Dabbler (’cause alien tech doesn’t count) and Halo (ditto on unknown origin orbs) pretty much all the technology has been present day stuff. The one exception being the armour, and that is boosted by Iron Cloth’s super power. So it is not actually an advanced gadget in it’s own right.We have yet to see what the rest of Arc-Sparq and Dabber’s helper (presently in this debriefing room) can actually do mind. Until we see something science fiction-like though, I am assuming real world with style. So I envisage James Bond type gear, rather than Iron Man type super outfits.
And I support that with the fact that they do not even know how super powers work. So replicating them would be that much harder, in this setting. And if they had more, we probably would have seen some evidence of it in the battle. Albeit it would have to be smaller things, carried on them or brought by Harem.
So your battle suits could still be in the armoury, even with that restriction. But, if so, we lack clues pointing to them.
catchtwentythree i’d like to point out that archon doesnt have accountability. what they have is protection from the law due to being part of law enforcement. I’d like point out that hacking like leon did is against the law and archon has no accountability for that. i’m pretty sure robbing banks is still against the law even though the pr lady handwaved it with some excuse. also reigning in an intelligence group like arclight is has been shown to be historically impossible. if a senator tried to give thrm oversight the only way he could pull that off is if they let him. harem could teleport into his house and plant evidence. the succubi could magic him up to molest women and children in front of capitol hill max could murder his whole family in five minutes. it’s a light hearted comic but this situation in the real world would be rife opportunities for abuse.
I’d like to point out that your local police department could pick the lock to your front door, upload a gratuitous amount of child porn to your Facebook account, send death threats to world leaders from your email, plant a gigantic bag of pot under your bed, and use the dandruff on your hairbrush to implicate you in every murder in the last 15 years.
Superpowers are irrelevant to the abuse of authority.
All the things you just listed are WHY they are concerned about their image as domestic military police. Also please use the little reply button.
Regardless, the difference between ARCHON and vigilantes is that ARCHON is accountable to ITSELF as a government organization. Now, nothing stops a superpowered individual from making a citizen’s arrest, and if they happen to be able to do that by breaking bankrobbers’ guns and nonlethally restraining them in telekinetic floaty bubbles, well, that’s fine, so long as matters are handed over to the police when they arrive. The problem with vigilantes comes in when they take matters of justice into their own hands, punishing criminals without due process. Since this is a regular problem (remember how Superman would whisk villains away and just drop them in the nearest jail? They’d have to be released immediately according to the law) with costumed heroes– whether it’s deliberate or not– it’s easier to have a general policy against costumed superheroics that aren’t connected to the super police than to deal with them on a case by case basis. Nothing says they HAVE to join Arc-SWAT, they just can’t make it their business to go out of their way and pursue and especially punish criminals.
Anyway. Your statement that ARCHON is not accountable is incorrect. The bank thing, as you recall, really pissed Max off for a number of reasons, because she’s a by-the-book military commander. ARCHON has a code of conduct, and as a whole is accountable to itself and the DoD. Your personal issues with law enforcement aside, just because we didn’t see Arianna chewed out by General Faulk for that stunt doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Let’s stop assuming worst case scenarios, or base fears around characters behaving out of character.
heh. sorry for repeating myself. you’re right they can do that. in fact where i grew up the local police were corrupt and remained so until in 1996 when the fbi caught the chief taking payments from a whorehouse. archon is not arrestable though except by itself. also the local departments ability to harm me ends at their jurisdiction. outside of which they are no different than a normal bloke trained to use a gun. archon has no jurisdictional limits. max is the linchpin of all this of course as long as she’s this lawful good type who cares about social justice causes and can police the other supers with total superiority of her powers. how is this situation going to be in 30 years though. if she becomes more jaded or has to imprison or kill one of her teammates that goes too far. or who legal authorities think went too far.
The world would still be filled with other nations that have powerful supers, now organized in organizations similar to Archon.
Depending on the relationships of countries, a rogue Archon member could end up being hunted down by a coalition of such people, even Maxima.
It would be far more likely for a jaded Archon agent to simply retire if they become disillusioned.
Arc-Dark are the ones we should probably worry about in a world like this, not the big public figures like Arc-SWAT.
You are making an assumption there. Remember we are still being introduced to the various arms of Archon, and have only just found out about Arc-Ageas. Plus we know there are more to come.
I would be very surprised if there was no internal affairs division equivalent. Given that DaveB has worked hard to model his setting on what we actually have in the real world.* Only corrupt or totalitarian regimes do not hold their police to account.
Note that their IAD investigators do not need to have super powers. They can second super investigators from Arc-Light, if facing super powered concealment of suspected corruption. Plus they can call in the heavies from the rest of Arc-SWAT, if one of the team refuse to co-operate.
It would be irregular to do that normally, but there are few practical alternatives if there are no other super police, to turn to. Enjoyably it would give real reason for our heroines to be involved in such an investigation. As opposed to it being ruled out, due to the conflict of interest. Despite most movies conveniently ignoring that basic premise of corruption investigation.
Of course that deals with only isolated members, or small numbers, of personnel turning corrupt. If the whole team goes rogue, then it is elevated to becoming a national emergency! As they represent the bulk of the countries super police and army combined. It would be as bad as a coup by the armed forces.
All that said though, your assumption might be the right one, and mine the wrong.
* Even setting up Archon as a new arm of the military parallels the world-wide response to the introduction of aircraft to warfare. So he is following historical precedent, even if we are surprised, due to the comic book tradition of vigilante loners and independent super groups.
“Arc-Ageas”
I must not have paid enough attention. Where was Arc-Aegas mentioned, and what do they do?
Don’t count on me spelling it right. But I was aiming for the name of the prison arm of Archon.
“Arc-Aegis”, I think is what you mean.
That sounds right. Now comes the tricky part. Trying to convince my brain that it is just a word, not a name. Because if it gets filed in the name part it will just fall out of its pigeon-hole anytime I go looking for it.
“Aegis”, btw, means one of two things:
1. The protection, backing, or support of a particular person or organization. For example, “International negotiations were conducted under the aegis of the United Nations”, meaning that the U.N. supported the negotiations. Another example: Someone who goes into witness protection (in the U.S.) is under the aegis of the federal WITSEC program.
2. In a more classical/mythological sense, an attribute of Zeus and Athena (or their Roman counterparts Jupiter and Minerva) usually represented as a goatskin shield.
So I guess you could say that Arc-Aegis is “shielding” the public by keeping supervillains incarcerated. Or… something like that.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/zeifman.asp
TL;DR: Hillary was *not* kicked off the Nixon Watergate investigation. Back in 1995 Zeifman (the man who allegedly fired her) noted that Hillary had remained with the inquiry staff up until the end, leaving only when President Nixon’s August 1974 resignation made the issue of impeachment moot and the Judiciary Committee’s impeachment inquiry staff was therefore disbanded.
Zeifman and Hillary were members of different staffs, and Zeifman had no hiring or firing authority over the Impeachment Inquiry staff for which Hillary worked. In 1998, Zeifman was quoted in a Scripps Howard News Service article as unambiguously confirming that not only did he not “fire” Hillary, but that it was not even within his power to do so (although if he could have fired her, he would have.)
By the way, it’s “Benghazi”, not “Ben Ghazi”. One word, not two.
Maybe Mr and Mrs Ghazi named their son Benjamin, but to all his friends he is known as ‘Ben’?
Note that if Dave is not intending to go with the IAD route, then there is still the FBI. They can be called in, using exactly the same procedure I outlined for an IAD unit. Except that they would have all the vast resources of the FBI at their disposal too.
Whether they have supers or not we don’t know for sure (even the US postal service had some). But it seems logical that most would have ended up in Arc-Light, for the same reason that most military ones are now in Arc-SWAT. Just not enough to go around.
But I could see that each of the other forces (and FBI and CIA) would have fought to keep some super capability. If only to guard against the nightmare situation of Archon being turned rogue. Or the more likely situation of corruption being known, but the extent not proven.
I have absolutely no doubt that Archon has an IA-equivalent.section.
Further to that, I am damn certain that Archon would have contingencies and plans on file for if specific members or groups of members “go rogue” (whether due to mind control or whatever).
One aspect of military planning is to try and allow for as many contingencies as possible, so there are probably a few notions as to how to take down and/or contain Max, if necessary. Given Max’s military service and mindset, I think it very plausible that she cooperated with this planning, at least at the early stages.
Frankly, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the very first thing Max assisted in was divulging (to the best of her knowledge) the ways/methods needed to disable/incapacitate/eliminate herself in case such actions were necessary…
Why would she do that? That would be telling bad guys how to stop her, and there would be nothing she herself could do to stop them from stopping her
Divulging to ARC, not to her blog or something.
He he. That turn of phrase, and the image it conjured up, made me chuckle.
maybe, your assuming that max is actually declared a rogue agent that would be a failure to spin the narrative. i’m more thinking that archon under max or her successor starts ruling america like stalin ruled the soviet union. total media control and the three branches of the government start following archon’s orders instead of the other way around
“ruling america like stalin ruled the soviet union”
And utterly crashing the American economy in the process and obviously causing plenty civil strife and inner conflict even within Archon. Nice.
It just wouldn’t be realistic.
*realistic given the nature of the setting, of course.
Dude, first off, use the reply button. It makes holding conversations MUCH easier.
Second, you’re making the worst assumptions about human nature. It is, in fact possible to have power and not abuse it. While you are correct that the only people really prepared enough to take down a rogue Archon member is Archon itself, that wouldn’t be that hard. The only member of Archon that the entire rest of the group would have trouble beating is Maxima, and even then it would be possible, considering Dabbler is able to fight her to a standstill. (supposedly)
In order for your governmental takeover doomsday prediction to happen, the entire team, or the majority of the team would have to go rogue, which is unlikely, and also no different than a normal group of soldiers. Do you honestly think that if a significant portion of our armed forces decided they wanted to take control of our country that they wouldn’t be able to do it? The fact is that having superpowers is not really that different from carrying a loaded weapon, especially when it comes to coups. Thats why they have a highly trusted soldier like Max in the lead. If you remember she was talking to the president, implying a great degree of trust in her loyalty, which brings me full circle. Having power does not mean that you are going to use them to take over the world. There are always going to be people with power that will abuse it, sure, but there are also always going to be people who have power and will stop those other people.
+1
reply button used sorry didnt see it my phone is small. i’m making observations about the comic actually. they’ve committed two felonies on syndey’s first day. and dabbler would probably be on max’s side as well as the rest of archon. because she’s a charismatic floating gold idol and if you draped a flag on her she could be recruitment poster. which is ironic because the american gov is supposed to have a series of checks and balances and she has none.
Please specify what you consider to be the felonies.
The only one that springs to mind is the ‘bank heist’. But that was conducted at the request of the bank, as a security test. I won’t contest that one too hard though, as it was irregular enough to warrant a bunch of charges.
But, were it to be explored in court, I suspect the mitigating circumstance of bullets not being able to cause more than emotional distress, with Maxima there, would downgrade any charge from being a felony. And Sydney would not press charges in any event.
However I cannot place what you consider to be the other felony?
Dabbler is the defacto representative of more than one alien race. At least one of which has ultra-technology, not to mention magical powers, and she is (presumably) the only member of the greater galactic community on Earth. Just how capable do you think you hairless apes are, compared to them? And what checks and balances would you propose to counter that?
I think keeping her friendly and entertained is the most sensible thing to do with somebody with such credentials. Those being the checks and balances, involving alien races, that seem most likely to avoid the premature extinction of life on Earth.
1; Amorphous grabbing Sydney to “use” as a hostage, that’s kidnapping, threatening with a deadly weapon, assault.
And possibly others.
2; Attempted murder when Achilles shot at her in the bank.
Attempted murder specifically requires intent to kill. Which there was none. But I must admit that I was viewing the bank robbery as a single incident. However you are correct into breaking it down into it’s component parts. And there was more than one chargeable offence,* if not the ones you stipulated. So point conceded.
* But still ones reliant on pressing charges, for that to happen. As Sydney is both of sound mind, and not under coercion, she is free to refuse to do that. In which case there is no charge to answer, let alone a felony. For those actions directed against her, anyhow. One could still entertain ‘causing a breach of the peace’, for instance, to reflect the alarm caused to other customers.
However, as they were police officers, acting on the behest of the bank, even that becomes arguable. For example any organisation is expected to conduct fire drills even when customers are on the premises.
Clearly one would normally expect an announcement that ‘this is a drill’, in order to minimise alarm. However, an argument can be made for not doing so, if it might compromise either the security arrangements or the validity of the test. The latter clearly would apply (albeit digging up a legal basis might be harder).
But these are highly tenuous arguments that Archon would be well advised going to lengths to avoid having tested in court.
Whether or not he really intended to kill Sydney is irrelevant.
He pointed and discharged a firearm at a person who had ZERO hope of stopping it.
And the Maxima can catch the bullet defense will not fly, unless ARC wants to publicly confess to the entire plot.
And if it does Arianna gets hit with conspiracy after the fact for trying to protect them from the law, same for Max only more so.
Yes it is. If you are trying to prove attempted murder you have to prove intent. It was his intent for Maxima to catch the bullet. Which he had every reason to believe she could do.
And yet it was stopped. As he predicted it would be.
The defence would file a petition to have the case heard behind closed doors, in the interests of national security. I predict this would be granted as any judge could see that causing reputational harm to Archon for no good reason would harm the whole country.
Sydney would indicate that she had no wish to press charges. All the judge need do is satisfy himself that she is not being coerced. So Maxima would demonstrate her capabilities. The defence would get witnesses to testify that both Achilles and Mr Amorphous were fully aware of this. Further the written mission plan would stipulate that was the exact intent.
The charge of attempted murder cannot hold without intent. Nor can it be tried if charges are not pressed. Nor can conspiracy charges be filed, for trying to pervert the course of justice, if there is no provable crime before the court.
Case dismissed.
Wrong it will be up to a jury to determine what a “reasonable” person believes was the intent.
Then of coarse from said closed hearing can and should come the lawsuit for the trauma caused by said incident.
Oh and fuck the national security interest cover.
Because the incident occurred in public to private citizen and the same agency released the video of it to the public, their claim would be shot down faster than Max catching that bullet.
For a jury trial to occur, there would first have to be charges laid. With Sydney refusing to press charges, that could not happen. What I described previously would not happen in front of a jury. It would be a preliminary hearing, with just the judge, councils and whatever witnesses they felt were necessary to determine if a jury trial could be formed.
Had the decision been to go to jury trial, then your public interest arguments could be entertained. But as murder charges would be dismissed, there is no valid reason to reveal national security and bank security information. Not with a verdict of “no case to answer”.
This is why prosecutors very carefully pick what charges to lay. Get it wrong and it just wastes court time. And possibly impedes future, more appropriate, prosecutions.
As stated both above and in another comment below, Sydney does not have to file charges.
The D.A. can do that on the evidence alone.
Then comes the real fun.
The congressional hearings into the incident.
Yup. And DaveB has indicated that it is likely Maxima has been attending those whilst we have been following Sydney (and probably General Faulk, although Dave did not mention him).
Fortunately, the covert aspects of the operation remain covert. So the publicly known version would play as Arianna intended. So long as it stays that way. Congressional hearings usually do not grill good PR exhaustively. I suspect their questions will be focussed on the advisability of having someone as eccentric as Sydney on the team.
Interesting how Halo’s presence is already helping Archon, even at the highest political levels, don’t you think?
Oops, Yorp explained it pretty well, but that wasn’t there as I was typing that. I guess too many years of Hollywood and too many assumptions had led me to a rather shaky conclusion. Thanks for clearing that up.
It is all good fun to debate. And I have learnt a couple of new legal points, as a result. So even though we have contested this before, in previous discussions, it was worthwhile, for that amongst other reasons.
Mind you, there is one things which none of us raised this time round, which justifies the bank job, and makes it all perfectly legal.
It obeys the law of funny. All lesser laws get suspended, if it is necessary for a gag to work. Be they legal ones or the laws of physics. And the bank scenes were totally hilarious! *throws a bunch of pardons to those involved*
And even if the attempted murder charge is dismissed there are a whole mess of lesser charges that can and should be filled at that point.
Reckless endangerment
Menacing
Use of a firearm in the commission of a felony
and others depending on jurisdiction.
*nods*
Although the judge will have a difficult call to make on what is in the public interest on that, as regards an application to have the trial heard behind closed doors.
A significant proportion of the national budget will have been used in setting up Archon. Plus if it undermines public confidence in the organisation, then it would hamper effective law enforcement. Possibly even leading to its collapse and being dismantled.
This would lead to a power vacuum, with no viable alternative, in place, to protect the public from super villains domestically and foreign armies with their own supers. It would take time to integrate supers into the other services, leaving the country wide open in the meanwhile.
And each of those small groups of heroes would have difficulty with their rock-paper-scissors roles versus national super units or domestic incidents like the one we just saw.
Further Archon is clearly the central plank in this administration’s efforts to ensure harmonious relations between supers and the general public. If that fails catastrophically it could potentially lead to either vigilante attacks on supers (especially if Archon’s supers got the public opinion blame for the corruption) or, worst case, an apocalyptic civil war.
Heavy stakes to be playing for when resolving a reckless endangerment charge.
Needless to say the judge would be mindful that there is a public interest should there be endemic incompetence and recklessness in the organisation. But, if there is not, and it is just limited to Arianna, and whoever signed off on the mission on the military side, then the above risks, to society, are wholly disproportionate to the actual offences committed.
I think she would suffer sleepless nights trying to make a sound call on that one. Fortunately there are more options available than simple ‘public hearing’ vs ‘private hearing’. A wise judge could find a compromise that addressed both public interest issues and allowed the case at hand to have justice done.
There is no felony because it was a staged event at the behest of the bank
Morph and Les had no intent on stealing any money, if, somehow, they had managed to make off with anything, they would simply return it back to the bank after they ‘got away’
Incorrect Guesticus
The moment Amorphus grabbed Sydney a felony occurred.
And neither the bank nor Arc had permission from Sydney to use her as a hostage
nor did they have permission from any of the other customers to include them in a live fire security test.
So there for both Arc and the bank can be hung out to dry on this.
incorrect Yorp.
The judge can not and must not take into consideration any factors other than the law.
Political and/or social repercussions are the responsibility of the legislative and executive branches of the U.S. government not the judicial.
Until the eventual lawsuits are filed that is.
What makes you think that laws only operate for individuals, and not for society at large? Very many case hinges on resolving the actions of one individual versus the harm they are causing to the rest of society. Of course a judge has to factor in the social damage that his rulings could cause.
I can say this with certainty as I regularly see judges summations which indicate that for example “The sentence was increased in light of the need to send a strong signal to the public that this will not be tolerated”. Or “The decisive factor in this case was the social harm that would be caused by…”
Not to mention that there are a bunch of laws which implicitly deal with preserving social stability. For instance “Causing a Breach of the Peace”, “Inciting a riot” or “Seditious conspiracy”.
In particular there are laws designed very specifically to cover the things we are talking about. For instance, in the UK there is the Official Secrets Act. The nearest equivalent, in the US is Espionage Act of 1917. Also relating to this case is the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
Plus there are others too, but I have reached the limit of my links per post :)
Suffice it to say governments like their secrets and they pass laws to protect them. If it is in the national interest, they will invoke them.
Yes Yorp if he considers one way of social damage he must then consider ALL forms of social damage that can occur due to whatever decision he makes.
For example he dismisses all charges per your arguments, what message will that send to the public.
Most likely to be seen is ARCHON is above the law and can do what they want no matter what.
And how will that help with social stability?
Which would be why judges come up with more complex options, as the black and white ones, on offer, do not give just results either way. Sadly many lower court decisions fail to take into account the full scope of issues at stake, So, on nationally important trials it may have to be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court (or High Court or European Court of Human Rights), before a socially just result is found.
But if information comes out which exposes state secrets, such as the means to change undercover agents’ appearance, then irreparable harm has already been done to the country.
It would be a foolish judge indeed who did that, if there was no possible alternative.
Here is one way it could be handled:
• Conduct the trial behind closed doors, with a ban on public disclosure.
• At the conclusion of the trial, publicly announce the verdict, including sentences, of anyone convicted, and summarise all of the issues, which can be revealed without harming national interests.
• If guilty verdicts were found, order Archon to review their decision making protocols and report on how they intend to tighten them up, to prevent a recurrence.
• Publicly recommend (if the facts uncovered gave cause for alarm) that an independent inquiry be raised into investigating possible incompetence and recklessness being endemic in Archon.*
• Order the court documents to be sealed long enough to both allow the above inquiry to be conducted and to give Archon bedding in time. Plus ensure that issues which do not have a public interest in being revealed (such as magical disguises) are indefinitely sealed separately.
• Publicly announce that if the decision is made not to hold the enquiry or Archon failed to adequately review and change their protocols, then the sealing order will be reviewed.
* Note this is wholly outside the scope of this court to decide. It is only trying the charges laid. Which does not extend to investigating the rest of the organisation.
Morph only grabbed Sydney because she stood up from between his legs and was standing between him and Maxi, so basically she gave herself up as a human shield
Lets see he also hit her on the head with the shotgun that is felonious assault.
He then tried to choke her again with the felonious assault.
Also remember he is a member of a military LAW enforcement agency and as such he is bound to obey the law himself.
On the pressing of charges you are dead wrong on Sydneys needing to do it.
The incident was recorded by the security cameras and released to the public by ARC.
So the district attorney would not need Sydneys cooperation to file charges.
It would now be a matter of public safety.
And unless Archon makes a full confession a high profile case like this would require the D.A. to do his job and not just sweep it under the rug because the government asks it.
Especially if he wants to keep his job next election.
No argument for other charges. Those relating to public safety.*
But if he went gunning for the one with the death penalty, in order to secure his election, his own greed and ambition would have blinded him to the impossibility of securing it.
* Sometimes a person’s choice not to charge can be over-ridden mind. For instance a battered spouse may be considered not fit to make that judgement him or herself. Likewise someone not of sound mind. I do not see that such applies in this case though. But would be interested to hear Pander‘s opinion, in particular, if she feels otherwise.
Working on that basis I feel a reckless endangerment charge which stipulated the risk to Sydney could not be filed. But one which pointed out the risks to the crowd, in general, could.
Of course, just to have a tease with one other (not wholly unreasonable) possibility, do consider this. The whole thing was a PR set up. The only two people we know to be genuine members of the public are Sydney and Suzie News. Both of whom are enthusiastically loyal to Archon, and very unlikely to press charges.
The rest might all have been undercover agents or paid actors, who were fully aware of any risks and signed such wavers as might be appropriate. Sydney and Suzie would have only gotten in because whoever was assigned to keep real members of the public out made a slip up.
Your reasoning is flawed Yorp, as none of those charges can lead to a sentence of death.
My point is that if the d.a did not file charges or dropped them at the behest of the federal government.
At the next election his opponent/s would be able to say he was giving preferential treatment to supers in clear violation of the constitution and established case law.
You left out the gentleman from
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/302
who did not know what was going on.
Yorp all charges are based on keeping the public safe.
I am pretty sure murder carries the death penalty in Texas, as well as some other US states. Which it should have been clear I was alluding to. But I apologise, if it was not.
I gave him very careful consideration. Hence incorporating actors in my reply. He really looks like he is hamming it up, like any actor, who has to resort to extra work, might be tempted to do.
Which is more likely though depends on what Suzie and her cameraman are doing out of frame. If they are pointing this way, I would go with over-enthusiastic actor. Whereas if he can see that they are pointing elsewhere, and yet is still behaving that way, then that makes the undercover agent more likely.
In that case, he would just be doing his primary job, which is to test how a trained super cop would react. In this particular case, to an irate member of the public. Answer: not as diplomatically as we might hope!
Or…mmm…. possibly he might just be a regular guy?
*cocks head on one side, thinking. waves paw away, dismissively*
Pssht! Crazy idea. Don’t pay any attention to my meandering train of thought.
Felony murder yes.
Attempted murder no
So without a death all Achilles is looking at is around 30 years in prison.
I stand corrected.
Seeing how the bank stunt was a PR stunt staged by Ari, it’s very plausible that that guy was hired (with explicit instructions by Ari) to give Maxi a hard time, as an ‘example of dealing with belligerent civilians’
Yorp:
Wow…. long thread :) I saw you mention me when I was reading through the comments today then wondered what you were wanting to hear my opinion on. So… here’s stuff I can say about the thread.
Dr. Revenge is right that a DA does not need Sydney’s cooperation to file charges, because charges like murder, attempted murder… honestly ANY criminal charge, are always first and foremost to protect the public interest – not a particular individual, even the victim. It helps, though, if the victim is cooperating, for a conviction. It’s not required though to file the charges
The DA can file charges regardless of the witnesses and victim cooperation. However, if they arent cooperating, most likely the defense will ask for a grand jury indictment first, and if you can’t get the victim to agree in a grand jury, where the prosecutor has ALL the advantages, you’re never going to get a conviction at trial.
It’s just the difference between being able to file charges, and being able to secure a conviction.
Even in the case of police arresting a husband battering their spouse, they can arrest him even if the spouse is refusing to testify against him, or even if she is protesting against him being arrested in the first place. However, the chances of convicting him when she’s not cooperating is going to be nil.
A reckless endangerment charge which stipulated the risk to Sydney COULD, in fact, be filed. Sydney does not have to cooperate with it. But it won’t help them more with a conviction. The fact that others in the crowd are in danger as well from the reckless endangerment displayed WOULD be helpful in the conviction. Also, witnesses could testify that Sydney was placed in danger as well, with or without Sydney’s cooperation.
Thanks for the add Pander.
Guesticus the moment Sydney was touched it went from PR stunt to felony.
And that is because at that point Sydney was a civilian and NOT a member of Archon.
And as anyone who has had any training with the law (mine has ben in the security field with 12 years of experience) your first and foremost duty is to protect the civilians.
NOT to put them in harms way.
Oh and Guesticus the “bad guys” were Amorphus who grabbed Sydney, and Achilles who shot at Sydney.
They are both members of ARC and if they do not know the rules they need to be gotten rid of.
Pander thanks for your help and illumination on that point. DR. REVENGE
duly conceded on that.
Like I said at the outset, Archon would be well advised to do whatever it takes to keep the incident from going to trial. Maxima was very right to be angry with Arianna for organising it. Likewise I imagine she gave Mr Amorphous and Achilles a severe dressing down at their official debriefing.
Hopefully with sufficiently strong punishment to satisfy a court that the incident had not been swept under the carpet, should it ever come to light. Not that any of that would be discussed in front of junior personnel. Hence why we would not have been aware of any of that, seeing things from Sydney’s perspective, most of the time.
This thread has gotten really complicated and I’m not quite sure where to post this, but could it be possible that Amorphous and Achilles might be protected by whatever it is that protects undercover cops from getting charged with crimes they commit while undercover?
Kamon Durel if an undercover cop commits a crime while undercover he/she can be charged.
Minor stuff will probably be hand waved away.
For felonies it is hammer time.
The only protection they have is not to have their identities revealed. Police have no special immunity in any role. Trials of undercover police tend to be done behind closed doors, so I cannot make informed comment directly on that, other than by inference. However I do know that the same principles apply so can show how it works.
If a police car exceeds the speed limit, the driver is breaking the law. He will be fined, have points removed from his licence and potentially be banned from driving if it was sufficiently excessive to warrant it. The fact that the driver is a trained police pursuit specialist does not give him immunity from prosecution.
However, if he can show an overriding need to break the law, that holds up in court, then he will not be prosecuted. But this is not something granted to him as a policeman. Any citizen who can demonstrate a legally justifiable need can invoke the same provision. Which does happen from time to time, for instance if rushing a pregnant woman to a hospital, to give birth.
Identical rules apply for both. Notably the action must not unduly endanger others,* likewise it must be proportionate to the need and it must be shown that there was no other viable alternative.
Recently it was reported that a pedestrian had been killed by a motorist driving a woman to hospital. I fully expect that they will be prosecuted for dangerous driving. Whilst the sentence might be reduced, due to the mitigating circumstances, the fact that they were driving dangerously negates any excuse they may have invoked for speeding.
Pursuit drivers often have to slow down their vehicle, if they otherwise risk endangering the public. It only becomes justifiable to do that if the fleeing criminal is posing a significantly greater risk.
Likewise if a hypothetical expectant dad drives past a hospital, with a maternity unit, in order to head to another one across town, he looses any viable excuse. It is an emergency situation and he should not break the law, if an alternative is available. The fact that they might want to use their own doctor or midwife does not justify endangering the lives of others.
For the undercover operation:
• Was there a justifiable emergency, or crime, in progress necessitating breaking the law? – No.
• Was anyone being unduly endangered by the action – Debatable **
• Was the action proportionate to the need – No. There is no justification for assaulting an innocent member of the public, restraining her and discharging a firearm at her.
• Was there a viable alternative available? – Yes. The exercise could have been conducted with consensual volunteers or trained individuals playing a role.
* Which is the one point that Archon can call on, but it is not deriving from them being police, it stems from them being able to show that Sydney was not in any actual danger. However this thread has already discussed that point to death, so I am just noting the distinction here, rather than invoking it as a defence.
** Just being diplomatic here, and technically true because it has been debated. But clearly Sydney was not, with Maxima there to protect her. But don’t tell DR. REVENGE I whispered that to you!
I was under the impression that an undercover cop could do whatever he needed to do in order to prevent his cover from being blown, like buy/use drugs, as long as proper compensation was provided to those injured by any illegal acts, and reasonable action was taken to attempt to prevent them from happening in the first place. How would you go undercover as a criminal otherwise?
Okay, well I posted another response meant for this chain just a bit further above. Oops. Anyway, thank you for clarifying, Yorp. Look up a bit if you want the original.
Duly found thanks.
*hands over a voucher*
Terms and conditions apply, as follows:
• Only one voucher may be redeemed per item purchased.
• This offer is not cumulative with any other offer.
• Subject to availability.
• There is no guarantee that such merchandise will ever be produced.
• There is no cash alternative.
• Offer is invalidated in the event of a zombie apocalypse.
wow so many replies since i last posted. to answer some questions the two felonied i mentioned are the bank robbery which was illegal despite that nonsense the pr lady was saying about it being a security test. and leon’s computer hacking which is a felony despite how casually it’s done in movies and comics. also my point wasnt that archon can get charged in a court my point was actually that they are unarrestable even when regularly breaking the law. which if they break the law to do good they are vigilantes and have no business forcing other vigilantes to join up or else. also that they have no real oversight. they’re oversight is a paper tiger. and it’s not like other armed forces. a fighter pilot for instance while highly effective in an aircraft needs a huge amount of support and maintenance to keep in the air. a navy seal is not going to be so effective that he disrupts an entire country by himself. the way they are controling these supers is with money and celebrity status. how well behaved are real life celebrities with lots of money? just thought i’d throw this up here for the hell of it. most likely since the comic has updated none of the debaters will read this…
lurkergao the only ‘hacking’ that I can recall was Leon patching into systems in the bank. Which they had full permission to do, from the bank, in order to test their security. He could have either gone in openly, with their co-operation or literally hacked. Either would be acceptable with their permission and is perfectly normal for security tests to do that.
I disagree
But first I must point out that in this comic the rule of funny overrides anything else. So yes, their actions in the bank were illegal, but essentially harmless, as no misfortune could befall Sydney, not with Maxima there. As proven by her simply plucking the bullet out of mid-air.
So the correct thing to do (unless we want to force the author to only write dead serious stuff and not go to the outrageously funny) is to ignore the technically illegal aspect, as it was both well-intentioned and ultimately harmless, and move on.
Therefore the issue of accountability applies when talking about situations where someone is clearly doing something bad, like accepting a bribe, beating a prisoner or stealing evidence. Harem for example. Unless she is acting under orders, as a double agent, to keep an eye on Machina Industries, is a traitor.
Such rogue individuals certainly are accountable. To every other member of the team. And you are wrong that the only thing motivating them is money and celebrity status.
This is only day two for Sydney, but already we can clearly see she is motivated by camaraderie, a sense of worth at doing the right thing, a recognition that with great power comes great responsibility (check out the Archon logo) and has shown the selflessness to risk death at the hands of Vehemence (trapping herself inside her shield with him, leaving her totally defenceless)!
In due course she will also be instilled with the sense of honour, that is vital to a well disciplined and motivated military unit. Along with pride in the unit and their country. Along with which will come a strong desire to ensure that the unit and the greater organisation are not brought into disrepute by corruption or other illegal actions.
I emphasise all the positive sides of the police and military here, simply because our protagonists are heroes. Not only will they do the right thing (except when comedy dictates otherwise) they will exemplify it. So they will not seek to protect their reputation by covering up misdeeds (remember we are ignoring the funny stuff), rather they will fight it in the manner they are legally and morally meant to.
Yes, Harem and possibly other members might go rogue, but they will be held to account. By the rest of the team.
yea it does follow rule of funny. thus all will be well. the only real reason it’s even discussed is because they went into world building on what governmental policy was. alot of super hero stories in dc or marvel pretend that other superheroes dont exist. otherwise batman would just call superman everytime joker nearly genocided the city. leon may have had permission to hack into the bank but he almost certainly didnt have permission to leak that footage online which meant he broke that agreement and was committing a felony. and even if the bank was an idiot and somehow was cool with that he routed his leak overseas and through a street light. there are overseas proxies that he could legally use but they usually log ips. in the context he used it more likely he has a botnet of computers he has hacked himself or bought online from shady russian hackers. the creation of and use of botnets is a felony. no he wont ever get caught at it thats the point. but he was bragging about it to his fellow law enforcement person. and leaving the overseas routing out of it hacking into a streetlight to use as a proxy would also be a felony. for good reason if his tampering caused the system to malfunction. he could have killed someone. yes it’s comedic law breaking but isn’t it funnier now that you know how many laws were actually broke?
One technical point first. Arianna certainly is not a law enforcement officer, and Leon may not be either. He is only described as the team hacker. Given his lack of any uniform, or other indicators to the contrary, my guess is that he is a civilian contractor.
Nothing Leon actually says, about the routing process, indicates he did any of the things you are stipulating. And there are other legal options he could have used. So there is no need to assume he chose the illegal ones.
Concealing the source of an internet transmission is not illegal in itself.
If you examine panel 2 Leon is clearly talking about how the leaked data will be viewed by the outside world. Ergo his mentioning “hactivist” should not be taken as being the true state of affairs. He is talking tongue-in-cheek. So we have to fill in the blanks about what these two know, but are not saying, as it would not make sense for them to do so here. I read the build-up as follows:
Arianna has planned the operation. This is a PR stunt. Core to that is ensuring the footage gets to the press. Arianna is also a lawyer. So she knows that doing that legally would require the bank’s permission. They will have had to provide her with written permission to conduct the security test. She will have ensured that part of that agreement covered the central purpose of the mission at the same time.
The releasing of bank CCTV of a criminal act clearly is not illegal (with appropriate permissions) as we see that kind of stuff on the TV on a daily basis. By making it appear like a hactavist has done it,* despite the fact that they have legal permission, is shady, but not illegal. Especially as releasing that is very much in the public’s best interest.
The task of actually doing that is then turned over to the technical specialist Leon, back when the mission plan was drawn up. So this scene is simply her checking in on him, to make sure Leon has done his various assigned tasks. The banter in panel 2 just being his way of confirming he has done it.
Yes, this is all assuming that they have acted honestly and in good faith. But they are heroes, and that is what we expect.
Needless to say we can only do this if we keep a blind eye to the technically illegal stuff from the robbery. But so long as we are happy that such is allowed in a comedy, all is good here too. In my opinion.
* It is possible that this part was Leon’s decision on how to handle a more general instruction (say “leak the CCTV to the press anonymously”). The scene plays more naturally too, if that happened. But that would not invalidate the argument, in any event.
much kudos for finding that page i was looking for. i see you are taking his conversation here as sarcastic. i was taking it as a sarcastic but truthful explanation and basically telling the lawyer don’t ask unless you really want to know. while i misremembered the part about bouncing it off satellites as bouncing off of overseas proxies routing through a streetlight system i remembered correctly. there are legal ways to conceal the source but vpns and legal proxies like https://www.hidemyass.com/ log all transmissions and people like those lulzsec guys have been busted because of them. in otherwords those legal ways are pretty worthless.ask kevin mitnick. i think we’ll have to agree to disagree. i’ve enjoyed explaining my position but the conversation started based upon how i felt it was hypocritical of archon to outlaw vigilantes considering what their operating procedure was like. then i explained my position based upon the belief that some of the things archon did on sydney’s first day are illegal. if you don’t see them as illegal then you might not see it as hypocritical. i’m not going anywhere with archon’s allegged hypocrisy i was just pointing it out. math is a lecher doesnt mean i want the author to change anything i was just calling out what i observed.
It was all an enjoyable conversation, wherever it went. And it is always interesting hearing other folks interpretations of scenes. We all have our own takes on them.
:-)
NICE, but actually Spinerette works for a government agency which allows documented use of powers and she is a documented super.
It’s just a cameo reference.
true enough but their saying she’s a vigilante, in reality she works for the government technically speaking and is a government employee under a government grant as it were. But the part I like is that the head of the agency she works for is Benjamin Franklin whom was shot into the future after being blasted by lightening which gave him his super powers. At least for those who’ve actually read the series which I happen to be one of….
technically it was the time traveling itself which granted him “powers”, specifically the laws of causality that apparently is a tangible force in the spinnyverse can and will protect Benjamin Franklin because his demise as history knows it has “already happened” and until he gets Back to the past to experience the “proper” path his life is meant to take, nothing else is allowed to harm him and. In roleplaying game terms, any attack roll against him is automatically a natural 1, fumble or equivalent while any attack He launches is the equivalent of a natural 20 or remotely plausible success.
Lightning had pretty much nothing to do with that, beyond sending him on ze trip in the first place.
Awww, I thought the ninja was Dr. McNinja….
Hello, Spinnerette!
Felt I should be embarrassed to have only recognized Spinnerette in the vigilantes section, but if two were made up and the other two I’ve never heard of (and at least one apparently being obscure), I don’t feel quite as bad.
Still funny. Love how Heather’s all “Wussup!” in that, too.
Just noticed Zephan’s card mentions “magic” – are we conflating magic as sufficiently advanced technology? Or is there actual magic?
Yes and no, to both and neither of the above.. ;)
Actual magic, as best we know. Gwen is a minor spell caster, and we saw her casting spells investigating Sydney’s orbs). Zephan uses artefacts (possibly magical, possibly technological or a mixture). Arc-Light collectively cast their “you-can’t-see-me” spell.
Dabbler casts spells (sticky air and her magic missiles at the very least). Although she does have high technology too. And she is likely to have technomagic which combines both. Possibly including her divinations, that she used on the Orbs. Her illusions stem from racial magic. Which may be different again.
Halos orbs may or may not involve magic.
The general public are (as far as we know) unaware of this. But do not know if the recruits are in the loop on that. They do not know that Dabbler is an alien though, so it seems possible that magic is classified above their pay grade.
That brings a really good question though, are the orbs technology, magic, or an amalgamation of the two mixed together in such a way that they register as neither and or both?
Angel eggs. When they hatch she will have seven multi-coloured cherubs flying around her. Maybe.
Given that both the magic people and the tech people and the magic/tech person have said “I have no clue what those are,” insufficient data to determine.
Actually you could remain anonymous with relative ease if you are sufficiently anal about it. Your goal is NOT to hide your DNA presence, but to lose it in a crowd. Vacuum a sufficiently dirty public area where people will shed skin/ hairs( e.g a bus or a plane, or a waiting area) and then distribute them about the crime scene via a dust / smoke bomb type effect. Sure they will be able to find your DNA, along with hundreds if not thousands of other people’s DNA on scene. Not so good for blood evidence, but a sufficiently smart/ clever villain should be able to make a plan in which he does not bleed all over.
or mess it up like in boondock saints (simple chemical spray that ruined testability)
Wow. Major props for throwing back to a character only mentioned EXTREMELY briefly in passing close to 4 years ago. Although this also raises a certain question… do you already have a lot of this written? Have you had most of it written since you started posting 4-5 years ago? If so, is this where you were expecting to be at this point in time?
I agree on the callback. Plus I can field some of the questions, on DaveB‘s behalf, as he has answered them before. He does read most of the comments, but what with the volumes he now gets, he might be tied up working on the next comic at the moment.
Certain scenes were written (and others were even drawn, albeit redone later) years ago. Some before the first page was published. For example Maxima making her point about guns being scary. Dave does have story outlines worked out well in advance. For instance he has indicated that most of this book (we are in Book 2 at the moment) will cover the period of basic training.
Fortunately, giving no spoilers on things that might happen during that time. Quite a bit of the day-to-day stuff is written as the story develops. Including various gags. However there are major story arcs already planned in detail. And we get foreshadowing, from time to time, as a result.
The biggest example of which is Arianna talking about the bad things that could result from Maxima’s nuke intimidation. We have already seen that Vehemence, just one of those depictions, was real. And another could be linked to Maxima’s back-story, from when she mentioned defeated enemies. Another example is Dabbler’s old enemy, who she thinks back on, at the firing range demo.
Psst Dave has never hinted about this, but keep an eye out for the Evil Squirrel Overlord.
The last, I would be curious about myself. However what I do know is that he has been itching to tell some of the other stories planned, but does not want to skip out on giving the present one the attention it deserves.
Are you wanting Squirrel Girl to join ARCHON?
Absolutely not! For Squirrel Girl to join Archon, she would have to be real. Whereas we know her to be a character from the Marvel universe. Which is canonically fictional in the Grrl Power universe.
This is most fortunate, because if it were not, then Wolverine would be real too, and I would have no chance of winning Sydney’s affections!
Actually their is a theory I’ve been toying with that writers actually have the ability to see into other dimensions and that their stories are actually things that happen in those worlds they see and write about. If this is true then in an alternate dimension Wolverine would be really, as would Superman, and many of the other comic heroes. That could be an interesting comic idea in and of itself where they have a crossover between dimensions and run into some of these other heroes…
I would like to say I thought that too, but it is probably inspired by a story that I vaguely recall. But, yep, I have toyed with similar thoughts, in the past. And it is plausible. Although probably not for all.
*keeps claws crossed that at least Sydney is dimensionally inspired*
Actually the latest bleeding edge research is postulating that there is active bleed-through, from other alternate-Earths (as per the many-worlds hypothesis), which is occurring at the quantum level. All the time. And there are reasonable signs that it is factual. I am keeping a close eye on developments in that area.
Rather than it just inspiring authors though, it intrigues me as a possible mechanism to explain dreaming. If our concious mind cannot handle info from alternate Earths, we would need to block out sensing it. To stop us reacting to things which are not there. Some kinds of hallucinations and other mental illness could just be that mechanism breaking down.
Dreams though could be our way of examining the alternate Earth sensory information, to see if it can give insight, when compared to our day to day lives. So we get snippits of our normal experiences intermixed with other things. Maybe from near Earths which are similar enough to ours to inspire new ideas, inventions and so on.
The more diverse ones might be a source of nightmares, but also inspiration for art and fantasy.
I shall be keeping my minds-eye out for Sydney tonight.
Oh, re-reading that I see I missed out explaining a part of it, which leaves a big gap where it may seem I am assuming something without any basis. Namely that even if there is quantum information bleeding through, there is no reason to assume that we could sense it.
However other research has shown that various animals are using quantum tricks as part of their normal everyday operation. Explaining how they can do some of the things that have been puzzling biologists for decades. The field of quantum biology is relatively new but they have already uncovered many examples. Enough to show that it is probably commonplace (in my opinion given the newness of the field compared to that).
As such it is not unreasonable to postulate that we have various quantum tricks in our own bodies, that have not yet been discovered. Plus a number are suspected and under investigation.
Notably some animals use quantum abilities to navigate and others in their senses. So if there is common bleed-through, from other dimensions, at the quantum level, then evolution could have found a way to detect it. Perhaps purely in the brain*. Or, alternately, piggy-backing on quantum capability in other senses.
* Say something like the inner-ear’s ability to help us balance. But in the case of the teeny world of the quantum, it would not need to be contained in a large organ outside the brain, it could just adapt the brain’s own circuitry somehow.
How does MM’s neck-thing stay on?
Does she glue it? (Being made of stone, she’s probably too tough for the whole “Peel skin of” problem to matter)
It looks like it is part of her dress to me. Connecting down either side of her breasts. Although possibly it stands alone, as you imply. Clearly the top of it will stay in place because it is around her neck (presumably being slipped on over her head, if it is stretchy, or attached at the back).
The problematic part is where it dives down into Marble Maiden’s cleavage. As that clearly does not connect anywhere, so would tend to flap around, if there is nothing else holding it in place. I think that, though, can be explained by a Hollywood red carpet secret solution, for similar problems:
Double sided sticky tape.
Yeah I was mostly interested in that part, since the rest makes some sense.
Actually, the entire bit going around the boobs has to be tacked down. I’m sure you’ve noticed that cloth pulls into straight lines when any force is applied.
I suspected that, thanks, but hesitated to voice an opinion. Having no paws-on experience, in that particular problem, due to my tastes not drawing me there.
Dave B
The only way i can think to read the OCD Girl comic is to right click and select view image It makes it readable but you have to hit back page to go back to the blog part.
as seen here…
I hope this helps and i figure several others have told you better ways by now but hey two cents is two cents…
https://thebluntinstruments.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/ocd_girl-56.jpg?w=1134&h=396
I’m just trying something here – seeing if I’ve got it figured right on how to insert links like this. It looked like it worked when I tried it over at Try It Editor, anyway.
Dog In Backseat
Success!
Yikes!
For the record, I think my doggy is there because his owner accelerated much too fast, not because the seat is made of quicksand or because there’s something or someone dragging him down.
:D
My car has adjustable bucket seats, so there is a small gap between the top of the seat cushion and the bottom of the back of the seat. I’ve never lost a dog in that gap, but it is prone to “losing” other small items like cigarette lighters and CD-ROMs left lying loose on the seat. (By which I mean they fall through the gap onto the floorboard.)
Can vaguely remember seeing that ad years ago, believe it may have been for BMW or VW
Actually, on further consideration (and further looks at the puppy in question), believe it may actually have been an ad for either Range Rover or Land Rover (not really sure what, if any, difference there is between the two)
The irresponsible family should have used a booster seat.
On the whole secret identity thing, there was a short lived comic about a world in which the criminals had pretty much won. They had killed or driven into retirement most of the heroes and managed to kill off any new ones before they picked up the survival skills necessary for a long career. Que a mini-montage of new superheroes putting on their uniforms for the first time and being almost immediately riddled with bullets.
A mysterious person puts together a new team, and his first task for them is to steal all of the uniforms the villains are keeping as trophies. After that they all wear a random uniform every time they go out on patrol, so that the villains never know what their power set is.
Like I said it was fairly short lived but I thought the concept had some merit. It’s a lot harder to defeat a superhero when you don’t know instantly upon seeing them that it’s Heat Ray Boy and all it takes is a few ice cubes to shut down his powers.
Hm. I’m having a wonderful little nightmare for Arianna: Marble Maiden runs a viral series of selfies from some truly brutal robbery-murder scene while doing absolutely nothing and watching the crooks get away with simple tagline “Sorry, according to law I can’t do anything”.
Actually she could and nothing Arianna has said would deny her that. So long as she does nothing illegal, Marble Maiden is fine. Because, if she used reasonable force to defend others from murder, she is not breaking the law. Provided she did not break any in getting into the situation in the first place mind. And also provided she did not do things such as unlawful imprisonment.
But, of course, being an ignorant member of the public, with no training, she may have already done that. For example, if you look at the picture above, she has hogtied a prisoner. That is specifically banned by various police departments and at least one large civil suit has been won by a person restrained in that manner.
Marble Maiden would have no special defence or protection against any civil actions taken against her. She will have to fight any lawsuits out of her own pocket. And any criminal actions she has made already will be treated with zero tolerance. It is my guess she has a bunch of charges already on file, awaiting her capture.
So her option will be several years in court, defending each instance, along with whatever jail time follows. Then paying out the costs incurred and similarly paying off her debt to Mr Hogtied above*, plus everyone else who succeeds in their claims.
Or she can cut a deal with the prosecutor, get the pardon, and sign up with Archon. If they want her.
* $450,000 being the amount paid in the other case mentioned. Although that is just the headline figure, doubtless the circumstances will not be alike, even if the method is.
If she was at those scenes, either before it happened or while it was happening, then she would be found just as guilty as the ones actually committing the crimes
Morally yes. Legally, sadly, not. Whilst some enlightened countries do enact laws which give a duty to rescue, most do not. Sadly including the UK and the other English-speaking nations. The US being the only one which even requires that authorities be notified, in such circumstances. And then only in a fraction of the states.
Even with the edit, that again is not how DNA works. The majority of superhero fights occur in public places, not private ones, so youre going to get a ton of false positives, and the cops are not going to scour every scene for DNA. As well, it’s not even vaguely possible that you’re going to get DNA from every scene they fight at, and then there’s the effects of transformation on DNA.
That’s even assuming the cops WANT to discover the identity of the masked person running around making their job easier (paperwork longer, but the job itself easier) or having saved their Lives, the lives of everyone in the city, etc..
ARC is acting like it’s a slam dunk, and it just isnt. As well, they’re taking an EXTREMELY Orwellian stance on things that most people nowadays would be taken as a warning flag that the agency is, at some point, going to turn out to be evil.
Speaking for myself, especially seeing Maxima’s stunt at the press release, I’d be staying as far from ARC as possible. Their utopian/Orwell thing is just to much of a tip point that they either are, or will, be a threat that needs to be stopped. You’ve already ruled out power nullification, so who stops ARC when they go over the line, a bunch of non-powered people in suits?
Well seeing Zephan endorsing starting up a secret government super hero register of innocent civilian supers does give me qualms too. But, putting that aside, your arguments are reasonable as regards public perceptions. However they are, in other regards, not really fair under objective analysis.
First off, although it fell to Arianna to announce it, clearly what she is reciting is government policy. Archon does not have the power to enact laws. They are merely following the laws and policies created by the government of the day. Secondly the policy is incredibly light handed, notably it:
• Does not restrict supers in any civilian role, they can do the same as any other civilian.
• Does not create a compulsory super register (see proviso above).
• Does not ban the wearing of tights and capes.
• Only created one law specific to supers. One which does not impede 99% of careers.
• Does not stop supers (or anyone else) from acting in self defence or defence of others.
What it does do is:
• Regulate the law enforcement profession, to ensure that super powers are only used by trained individuals, operating within an organisation which can monitor and support them adequately (Archon).
• Indicate a zero tolerance for supers engaging in illegal acts (and then only those connected to vigilante behaviour).
• Offer a pardon to vigilantes (who otherwise prove suitable), in order for them to enter genuine policing, provided they do so with Archon.
• Remind comic book fans that the heroes in those are fictional and ONLY get it right because the writer scripted it that way. Real life vigilantes MORE OFTEN THAN NOT target people who turn out to be innocent, attack the wrong individual (through mistaken identity), hurt innocent bystanders and otherwise cause gross miscarriages of justice.
• By the above means, discourage catastrophic fights, illegal arrests, unlawful imprisonment by untrained uncountable individuals who have no understanding of law enforcement regulations and laws. Let alone the associated illegal interrogations, torture, assaults, murders and unlawful trials and summary executions which are also associated with vigilante behaviour.
Personally I do not consider the above to be Orwellian. It really is a minimal regulation approach. Most unlike contemporary governments (across the West, and regardless of party politics), when you compare it to the number of new laws passed in each administration and how broad in scope many of those are.
This is one law and very VERY tightly focussed. To the extent that it will have zero effect on most supers’ day to day lives. Except ensuring that their TVs are not full of vigilante VS villain battles (and subsequent law suits against the vigilantes misdeeds) going on in their neighbourhood.
Perception is reality these days Yorp.
And by that I mean it does not matter what the government says in this case it is how people perceive it.
The whole thing can be taken many ways Dragonstryk72s, yours or some other tangent that has not been brought up.
And given the opinion of government these days some of the supers will probably start preparing for the worst case scenarios.
Aye..
I, honestly, found it quite refreshing that DaveB decided to take a more middle-ground route with the Super regulation thing, as well as him portraying public opinion of Supers as relatively positive. I’m honestly sick of works where Supers are horribly discriminated against and feared, but I am also equally tired of works where the government sits back and does nothing, and everyone loves Supers, and everything is lovey and perfect and fine. It seems much more real than things like X-men or the Justice League.
For all of you who have been asking – or should I say begging :D – for a sort of Grrl Power After Dark, check out DaveB’s new vote incentive!
It is very worthwhile. But make sure your mains water is running. If you are a Maxima fan, you will be needing a cold shower.
To see the comic OCD Girl big enough to read you have to right click it and open in new tab.
May I just say that I love the fact the that Spinnerette is in this even if it is just a brief cameo without any dialogue it has much potential for a crossover it is amazing
What’s interesting to me about the whole “20 different scenes” thing is that it probably makes up for the weaknesses of low quality samples which forensic scientists have started to run into. When you can run the same test on 20 different isolated samples that should help you figure out which DNA is your target and which is somebody else, and which peak on the graph is noise, and which is signal.
Spinnerette is a fully licensed and accredited superhero in compliance with all relevent laws in the jurisdiction where she resides.
She’s also a member of a superhero union in good standing.
Arc* can’t touch her.
Even more so because she is on another world.
That’s what I was just searching the posts on. In Spinny’s verse supers have a right to a secret identity unless they’re arrested and even then that identity can never ever ever be made public. Equal rights, equal protections on both ends means that the “bad guys” tend to be more polite since they can’t just be curbstomped, humiliated and have their public persona vilified by a cape with an ego.They also do not have to work directly for and be controlled by the government if they want to protect folks. I have this odd sense that Dave’s world will develop a superpowered collective of enemies of the state.
I just see the dynamics in Dave’s world as working exactly the same as they do here. In most civilised countries, most of the time, police and members of the judiciary are not targeted. Simply because that is a sure way to guarantee you will have every cop, in the country, treating you as enemy number one, for the rest of your life.
Obviously there are exceptions, for instance if Mafia culture takes grip and a faction feels that they are able to act with impunity, even versus the law. But that tends to be a phenomenon in fictional entertainment, far more than it is seen in real life. Some countries have managed to get out of control though. For instance something akin to what you are implying can be seen in Mexico.
But I do not see that existing dynamics in a given society would intrinsically change that way. Barring one exception. If individuals felt that they could act with impunity and get away with it. Which super powers certainly give them the potential to do.
That though is the whole reason why Maxima did her nuke demonstration. Simply to remind folks that they are not the only ones with super powers. The existing cultural dynamics remain in place, but just with some new toys in play.
I really wish your raw image file was larger so I could zoom up the text larger. Is there a way to get a larger format comic?
Sadly not at present. Although DaveB does create the comic in a higher resolution than it is posted here. So he could potentially make a larger version available someday. For the time being though, it is limited to the occasions where a bunch of fans all call out for a particular frame to be released as a wallpaper. He does kindly indulge us, once in a while.
If you click on the “Deviant” button at the top of the page it will take you to Dave’s Deviant Art gallery. You can see several of them there, in all their embiggened glory.
Given your turn of phrase, I imagine you are tech-savy enough to be aware of the following, but see no harm in mentioning them, on the off chance that you are not. I typically run the comic at 125% enlargement, using my browser’s zoom option. That does not intrude on usability in any aspect. But sometimes, when wanting to see the very small details, I will bump it all the way up to 500%.
Other times, when my monitor is not positioned at an ideal distance from me,* I will use the windows magnifier (from the ease of access centre, in the control panel). I find running that on 200% and docked works well. In particular if I had been having difficulty reading text.
With one or the other of those two techniques, I never have any difficulty as regards reading speech bubbles. If, however, you are trying to read newspapers, in picture frames, or the text from posters, on walls, I can well see the desire for the larger raw file.
* This involves a Jack Russell terrier, who likes to sit on my lap, most of the time.
The problem I found with your argument is that police are not actually legally obligated to protect or help people. A judge found one group of police officers free of any crime when they failed to aid a pair of women being held against their will. They drove by the home repeatedly, but never even got out of the car, and even though the cops were called multiple times they were not punished at all despite the great harm that the two women suffered.
Perhaps legally speaking, you should call the cops and leave it to them. But legally they aren’t obligated to come and do anything, won’t get punished if they fail too, and if they make matters worse or accidentally kill people they’ll get a citation. As someone who has suffered from police brutality (they didn’t understand I was having a panic attack and started tazing me repeatedly), I can assure you that police can get away with just about anything. If you’ve been keeping up with the news you’ll even know they can get away with murder.
The vigilantes mentioned before do this for free and are actually careful about how they handle things because they know one wrong step could put them in jail. They do it anyway, because it’s the right thing to do. Ultimately you may be in the right legally, but I’d want a force like that over our well trained, non-culpable sociopaths any day.
Actually they are legally bound, but under civil law, if not criminal law. As such a criminal court could not find them guilty of failing to render aid, but one with jurisdiction over their contract can. Which is why it is not true to say that they will not go unpunished.* If they have failed in their duty to protect the public, they can be demoted, fined, dismissed from the force and even have their pension stripped from them (depending on jurisdiction).
Given your personal circumstances you have every reason for your cynicism. But do think on the following. Both pools of people are drawn from the general public. Which means the source contains those who are motivated by: Greed, desire for control, sadism, desire to provide financially for ones family, selflessness (the desire to help others), lust, a desire to be liked by others and others.
The police go through a lengthy selection process which attempts to weed out the candidates with negative motivations (rapists need not apply), and give them training to focus the neutral ones (that desire for control can be useful in command careers, if properly balanced) and nurture the positive ones. As you have found out, they do not always succeed, but a lot of effort is made to try and get it right.
Whereas your selection process is to stand on a street corner, handing out capes, to anyone who walks by, and hoping that only nice people accept.
* But you have my every sympathy for when they do not. Injustice happens all the time sadly. But I am simply pointing out that there is a mechanism to punish them.
Dude, Marble Maiden is very yummy. Here’s hoping she gets featured at some time (though not overshadowing Sydney, not that doing so is even possible).
Peter Parker, the secret identity is usually “on scene” for spider man’s vigilante activities as evidenced by his uncanny ability to always get a photo of the hero in action to sell to the daily planet. It would not be surprising that his DNA would be found at the crime scenes since he has a photo alibi of being in the area.
So, functionally, he’s his own best alibi.
Carmen San Diego?
No. Giant Girl.
Aha!. He used other comics for this panel. Clever. And now I have to check this one out. Thanks!
My pleasure. If you enjoy the comic, it may interest you to know that the creator is a fellow fan here, and has commented on this page, elsewhere in the comments.
Marble Maiden looks rad, hope we get to see more of her. Also neat to see Spinny cameo. It’s a great comic. GG I could take or leave, though. I just find her stuff too depressing to read.
Why is Spinnerette listed here? She is from a completely different series, in which there is an organization of Vigilantes which are governed over. She is not just some random freelance super.