Grrl Power #366 – Successfully unwarranted
Back in the day before DNA tests and mass spectrometers, it’s plausible that a vigilante could maintain a secret identity, especially if you have an environment where the bad guys have some weird unspoken rule about not unmasking them the instant they get knocked out, because otherwise why wouldn’t they? But with modern forensic science, it would basically be impossible. The first time a vigilante gets their lip split in a fight, the authorities would have their DNA. Swab it off someone’s knuckle, from under a fingernail, or a little spatter on a jacket or wall. Spit, skin cells, heck, just capturing them walking down a hall could be enough for gait analysis which could enormously narrow down a list of suspects.
Edit: I just wanted to add this since a few people are pointing it out; I know getting someone’s DNA doesn’t let you immediately identify them if you don’t already have a match on file, but it’s a slam dunk once you do get that match. And if they have a brother or uncle that’s a felon, then you’re suddenly a lot closer to knowing who you’re after. Plus, if you find the same DNA at 20 different scenes, then you have evidence that the same person was involved. Otherwise when you catch the guy, he could say “Oh I only was at the one scene you have evidence for, in fact I’m not even “Vigilante Mask” just a fan of his.”
In the case of someone like Batman, it can be argued that the cops kind of rely on him unofficially and don’t work too hard to unmask him. Also Bruce Wayne probably has the resources and contacts to have his DNA and fingerprints purged from any databases, but someone like Spider-Man? Unmasking him would probably be trivial if the authorities really wanted to.
The only way to avoid being identified would be to fight crime in one of those level 5 hazmat suits, or police the whole battle area in a super OCD manner for hairs and blood and bits of dirt you tracked in from your garden, recover all your Weasel-a-rangs, even the one that slid under the newpaper press or was deflected out the window by the ninja the bad guys hired to beat you in their desperation. Also you’d have to fight quietly and hope no one calls the cops on you for the noise so you have time to clean up. No stopping daylight robberies for you! Just brawls in abandoned warehouses.
Of course I can’t mention superheroes with OCD without linking OCD-Girl! Unfortunately it’s posted with some blogging front end and I can’t figure out how to view the comics at a legible resolution. If anyone does, post in the comments and I’ll put it up here, cause the comic is pretty funny.
Panel three obviously contains some other cameos. Usually if they’re from regular “big” media sources, I like to leave it up to you guys to root them out, cause it’s fun being the person who recognized the obscure thing, but these cameos are small or single team web projects, so I’ll link them here.
The two guys on the top row are just randos I made up for that panel, but many of you should recognize Spinnerette there in the middle. If you haven’t ever checked it out it’s a well drawn and funny webcomic.
On the bottom row is the “Ask a Ninja” guy which was a very funny but unfortunately short lived youtube series… though checking the channel just now I see he’s still slowly updating, or at least remastering his old videos, so… I guess I know what I’m catching up on during lunch.
Next to him is not Carmen San Diego believe it or not, it’s Ronni Kane from another webcomic called Giant Girl Adventures. Guess what her power is?
Weird having only one person in the Who’s Who after a possibly record breaking one on the previous page.
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Grrl Power certainly passes the reality-test on the way government would handle free-range superhuman vigilantes. On the one hand you could argue that the federal government would prosecute them for their previous vigilante activity and offer ArcSWAT membership as an alternative to sentencing and jail time. But on the other, Archon is trying to win the trust of both the national and superhuman communities; strong-arming independent superheroes into serving is not the way to go about it (and would likely put the public on the side of the underdogs). The choice of becoming official (and trained and regulated) or ceasing further “independent” activity is a nice compromise.
Strictly speaking, this has already happened. From Heatwave’s bio on the cast page:
“Through a series of comic misadventures, Brook fell into the vigilante game along with Mister Amorphous and Achilles, and eventually were rounded up by Archon and offered immunity if they joined.”
Fortunately for the vigilantes as much hype as forensics like to get there hardly as advanced or infallible as they like to portray themselves. It takes longer to process and still come up inconclusive, the samples can be ether bleached or contaminated at the crime scene. Not to mention there are those out there that use suites that contain all physical traces, are made of energy, or non organic matter like Miss marble here. then there are those that are ether smart enough to take care of the crime scene, or have the support of local law that find that all traces of the hero mysteriously vanish.
Of course then there is the problem of actually having the database that lists everyone’s info there. One tech savvy villain or hacker latter and all that info is out for whoever is willing to pay for it. Then you got a list of power people being recruited, or abducted by people that want to use them as weapons or experiment on them. Then on the flip side we have all the real names and addresses of all the heroes there who can expect to get a nice fire bomb, Ebola letter, or a gang of villains knocking on there door looking for payback when there guard is down or looking to target there loved ones.
I don’t get the dislike of secret identities – I mean, we have actual criminals in real life who don’t get identified.
As to *why* – real life isn’t CSI; you can’t just sequence all the DNA anyone has ever left at the crime scene, compare it with all other crime scenes ever, and then compare any samples present at multiple scenes with existing databases to see if there are any partial matches. Well, you COULD, but it would be prohibitively expensive and take prohibitively long. And even if you did? There are a thousand innocent explanations for why the sample could have been contaminated. Heck, you’d probably end up arresting half your forensics team.
DNA isn’t useless, by any means, but a majority of crime scenes don’t yield useful DNA. In the real world.
Of course, this is a world with super-science, so it’s entirely plausible that Batman can deduce Superman’s identity in an afternoon using his Bat-DNA Tester.
Think of how hard it is for the “bad guys” to function in Afghanistan where they’re hiding in caves most of the time. Assume there’s a thousand supers on the planet. Each one of them could (and WILL) have at least hundred gov and/or private investigators trying to follow their every move (A-list celebrities probably have that now). Some of those thousand supers are going to be actively working with the gov.
The problem isn’t that a super can’t stay secret in that environment, the problem is he can’t act publicly in a costume and stay secret without an insane number of powers/resources.
Considering the Taliban is on the rise again and/or ISIS more or less they have cockroach super powers. US has the biggest military machine on the planet and wiped out scores of them and yet back they came. The problem is it’s like trying to swat flies with a bazooka, nailing each and every vigilante out there just isn’t practical the same way the cops don’t get all the criminals/terrorists. Some like Bin Laden will operate for years or even a decade+ amount of time without getting caught, in part because some of the populace collaborates and/or is sympathetic.
I can think of folks I know personally would support an independent vigilante over “Govemunt Super heroes” just because they flat out don’t trust the Feds. Americans as a whole can be an unruly civilly disobedient bunch.
And catching someone like Harem would be a small nightmare.
The problem with those groups the environment that gives rise to such groups still exists.
This, of course, begs the question of how Superman even has DNA, what with being an alien and all. Did life on all planets evolve exactly the same method of storing genetic data?
he can eat normal human food… i’m pretty sure that means his genetic code is compatible to our genetic code, otherwise he would have starved a LONG time ago.
Most versions of Superman do not require food, water, or air and subsist courtesy of his super-powers. He only eats for the purpose of enjoyment or in those rare periods when he’s depowered and has to eat like everyone else. The compatibility of his genetic code with humans isn’t really relevant in that regard, that only matters when it comes time to reproduce (and some incarnations they explicit have it that his DNA is too different for that to happen), it’s whether or not his digestive system is enough like ours and his body’s needs are similar enough to derive nourishment from human food. Given his father picked out Earth to send him to his father had to have enough advance knowledge that his son would handle earth food just fine before sending him there.
Chaos computer Club a German Hacker group produced fake finger sleeves that would leave the fingerprint of a politician in favor of building DNA databases like this.
You are right, real world forensics isn’t CSI. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t technology out there that can be used to uncover a Super’s Secret Identity. Given enough time and resources.
I would think that Archon is the kind of Organization that would have access to the best Technology, Talent, and Resources. As well as the highest levels of Security, where it counts most.
The only technology you’d need is actually quite simple: a DNA database of everybody in the country to compare it against. But here’s the problem, barring that you’re not going to catch anybody. It doesn’t matter if Meltdown Man is Tom Jones if you don’t have some of Tom Jones’ data to compare it against you have nothing to conclusively prove one is the other. That narrows it down to people who are in a database somewhere, which as far as I know is certain types of felons and possibly the military, everybody else is an unknown unless Archon has been NSA style archiving the *entire country’s* DNA which seems improbable to say the least.
Archon is unlikely to shut down all the vigilantes unless it dedicates a squad to harassing them at every opportunity. The task is a lot harder then Zep seems to appreciate. Catching a vigilante is no easier than catching any other “criminal” DNA or no DNA.
With the exception that most super vigilantes aren’t going to be career criminals so they won’t know the tips and tricks of avoiding getting caught (eg no selfies).
Most criminals aren’t exactly rocket scientists themselves tbh. There’s been more than a few who have FBed or tweeted their crimes. IRL
Sometimes from the actual crime scene. Right after committing the crime.
May as well just leave a signed confession, save everybody the trouble of going to trial.
Like the guy who pulled a bank robbery by writing his demand on his PERSONALIZED deposit slip?
Brace yourselves for a gross one. As a courtesy to those of a weak disposition, I’ll hide it.
I once heard tell of a crook who tried to siphon some gas out of a neighbor’s RV, only to discover after he’d started sucking that he’d gotten into the septic tank. The cops just had to follow the trail of puke until they caught up to him.
When I lived in Commerce, TX (permanent population ~8,000) they had a guy who robbed a convenience store while wearing a mask. The police still caught him, because he forgot he was wearing a pair of athletic shoes with flashing lights in the heels. All they had to do was follow the flashing lights…
(On the other hand, another criminal robbed the same convenience store wearing nothing but his underwear… on his head. They never did catch him. They were also unable to catch the guy who robbed the local Whataburger by going thru the drive-thru window while on a stolen bicycle, pointing a stolen gun at the cashier, then pedalling to where he had his stolen getaway car stashed…)
My favourite one tickles me because I have seen similar things happening in three different places, down through the years. Robber poses as a customer and hands over payment, to get the teller to open the register. They then rob the till, but find that it only contains small change. Grabbing what they can, the robber then flees.
In each instance forgetting that they paid with a bank note. Which they have left behind. On two of the three occasions, leaving fingerprint evidence, which later helped secure convictions.
The bit that gets me rolling on the floor laughing though, is that they all gave the store more money than they stole!
One of my favorites is the guy who robbed a store, the cops showed up just as he was leaving so he tried to make a run for it. Cops had no trouble chasing him down on foot, because it was nighttime & he was wearing those tennis shoes that light up when you step on them…
Another is a guy who cased someone’s home for robbery & hit the place when they family was on vacation. When he had everything packed & ready to go, he accidentally left his jacket behind…which had his wallet & ID cards in the pocket.
I’ve seen cases like that here in the U.S. In at least one case, the criminal used a $20 to get them to open the register, and made off with about $10 and change… and forgot to grab his $20 on the way out. In other words, he robbed them and gave them money!
Another favorite happened in Australia. A criminal robbed a grocery store, and left his (stolen) car running so he could make a quick getaway. After getting all the money, he ran outside… only to discover that his stolen car had been stolen! (“No honor amongst thieves”, indeed.)
There is a US military DNA database, however the law limits its use to purely body identification. So it can’t be used legally for any other purpose. That was part of the concessions to get the law passed as, otherwise it would be like treating the military like felons, which as can be guessed didn’t go down well with many people.
First thing I tried on the OCD-Girl for getting bigger images to view seems to work: On the individual comic page right-click the image and “Open Image in New Tab”. The image is actually full-size so you’ll get it up to that size (or be able to use browser zoom to make it larger but fuzzier/blockier than the original).
Highly annoying to have to do that for every comic you want to read when doing an archive read-through, though.
So, speaking of browser zoom, you can also just do that on the comic page itself, I found bumping it up to about 200% size at least makes the image only 60% normal size (rather than the 20% a normal view makes it). Then each page you visit will have the images up to readable size.
I kind of really want to know all the story behind rando vigilante to the right of Spinerette (our right not hers). My hunch is htat this has actually already been answered in the comic, the beard is a fake one, which he whips off, gets suited up and turns into this guy…
Of course, DNA is only useful until someone invents an aerosol form of DNA-ase.
People don’t leave “DNA” behind. DNA found at crime scenes is mostly contained in skin cells (also white blood cells and *some* pulled-out hair, but not in broken-off or cut-off hair or other blood components). A DNA-ase would have to somehow get *into* the cells, so it would presumably be rather corrosive and a bad thing to use around people.
The sadly short-lived TV series Almost Human in one episode showed a person using a nanite grenade to cleanse a crime scene of all forensic evidence in a matter of moments.
Yeah, I liked that show. Like many sci-fi shows that are not on SyFy, it only got one season. That’s most likely because of an executive who thinks Viewers Are Morons (meaning he thinks the show is “too cerebral” for most people to understand… that’s what almost happened to Star Trek after its first season), or because it didn’t have the number of viewers they expected.
Even on SyFy, shows are prone to running for a couple of seasons, then as soon as the number of viewers starts to drop, it gets cancelled with the explanation “it failed to reach the target audience”… regardless of how many seasons it has already ran, or who the target audience actually is. “Oh, so you’re telling me that the show took four years to fail to reach the audience?”
Alas poor Space Above and Beyond. May it meet up with Firefly and fight off humanity’s enemies together.
Yaknow what’s funny? I just finished reading through the archives of Giant Girl. Recognized her right off.
Thanks for the read!
Since we are spending so much time talking about blood this episode, has any researcher in this universe ever tried giving a blood transfusion from a super to a normal to see if anything interesting happens?
On the reverse side, if Varia was ever injured and needed a transfusion from someone are they willing to do it? The reaction could be literally anything and could not be turned off once it started. Her one risk-free option would be to self donate and put it in storage, sending Harem to pick it up if needed.
In the TV show The Dead Zone they did something similar. His ability was to see the past/ present/ future when he touched somebody/ something they touched. After an accident where he received a transfusion from multiple people he spent the next ?6 weeks? seeing each donor’s life as their blood passed through the part of his brain that caused his ability. It only wore off when the blood got filtered out through normal wearing out and cell death.
Since you’ve done the cross-over here already, will there be other characters from the Spinnyverse? Krazy Krow actually has a national superhero organization with government sanction that oversees an manages hero assignments and team memberships; would that be parallel or in conflict, or an arm of ARC? (Then again, the Spinnyverse has Ben Franklin fall through time into WWII and foul up an assassination of Hitler, before eventually becoming the head of the U.S. national superhero organization sometime over the next 60 years…)
I get the impression its more a shoutout/cameo than a crossover.
Correct, as confirmed by the author, on the previous page of comments. Dave’s reply is mid-way down the thread linked.
spinnerette was a good comic, once …
now it’s pretty much garbage. quite sad.
Yeah, I quit reading once she got flanderized into a lesbian by the author and shipped with mecha maid. I don’t have a problem with gay relationships- I do have a problem with significant and unrealistic character changes, especially when they seem to be done to pander to a particular audience. Good writers serve the story, not their demographic.
I stopped reading about that time not due to the plot, but due to problems with the RSS feed. I however thought she had lesbian tendencies long before she met mecha maid. As such I didn’t see it as an unrealistic character change, or as pandering. The signs were there in the beginning with her roommate.
The problem wasn’t that she suddenly radically changed, it’s that you had preconceived notion of what she was, probably due to having more of a problem with gay relationships than you admit, that contradicted subtle indications that were there all along. So you see her coming out of the closet as sudden and pandering when, at least experimentation, was inevitable.
She spent the first arc getting butterflies over some guy- (been a while, cant remember if he was a neighbor or what). but there was complete flustering and attraction there. And absolutely zero romantic interplay between spinny and her roommate.
Then suddenly she’s all into Mecha Maid, and I’m like “Welp. Feels like a bad fanfic, I’m out”.
And good luck with your whole personal accusation thing- if I had a problem with gay relationships why would I be in one? I think you should do some serious self-reflection, because you strike me as having more preconceptions than you were accusing me of.
Ya’ know there’s this another option called “Bisexual” where you like both genders. A person isn’t limited to straight or gay. Not to mention a whole bunch of other options like Pansexuals who are attracted to people for who they are and not what gender/orientation/etc they have.
You can also find someone attractive without hitting on them.
No, I was completely unaware of bisexuals, but thanks to you, a whole world of sexual possibilities has unfolded in front of me!
/sarcasm off
The point is, spinnerette was almost completely straight when the comic started, no hint of bisexuality or lesbianism. The girl is into science and the hunky neighbor guy, it’s very het. No gaydar pings whatsoever. Then suddenly she is totally into girls, and you have to ask why the author did that. Not that Krow has ever been a great writer, but it totally felt like a terrible fanfic reinvention to me- and since there’s a strong possibility it was done to appeal to people like me, it also is kind of insulting. But that’s besides the point.
“I’m strictly heterosexual. But bisexuality does double your chances for a date on Saturday night.”
– Woody Allen
Shot in the dark here.
But is it plausible that she didn’t know she was gay or bi before and she’s perhaps evolving as a character? Or even that she’s not gay or bi but is simply curious/convinced she is because of events? Or maybe it’s just exclusively MechaMaid that brings it out in her and it’s not gender based so much as person based.
It’s not like the comic is over and what has happened is all we have to go by. Maybe more will be explained and the characters will further evolve.
I found it enjoyable. But I am a soppy romantic and the storyline was leading to her hitching up with Mecha Maid, who I fancied. So I was quite happy for my protagonist to go there. Therefore I guess that makes me pretty much target audience material.
I can’t recall feeling that Spinny’s development was out of character. She was young enough and uncertain enough about herself, that I put it down to her finding her way. Besides which, whenever I saw Mecha Maid’s eyes, my primary thought was:
“That girl needs a hug, and you have four arms, make good use of them!”
I guess. It just felt very sudden and unrealistic to me. If Krow hadn’t spent so much of the early comic having her crushing on that guy or at least had some kind of serious indication she was bi early on I probably wouldn’t have had a problem with it.
Keep in mind discovering that you have or have developed a non-standard sexuality is usually a bit more than an “Oh, I’m gay” or “Oh, I’m bi” type of thing. There’s usually quite a bit of soul-searching or angst that accompanies it. I mean, sure, there’s probably some people that are immediately cool with it. But most aren’t.
I wouldn’t go that far but the Colonel Glass thing ran a little long and, since then, the comic has been kind of floundering. The most recent storyline looks to (hopefully) be putting things back on track plot-wise though.
You are too kind. At the very least, I thought the author would have further explored the aftermath of the Colonel Glass arc on the characters. Little attention was devoted to it.
Suddenly, originality was annihilated and “narratives” which appeared to be blatant mash-ups of past and current events (e.g., Spider-verse) was too much.
Giant Girl…ugh. The heroine seems to never do any wrong, cannot admit to doing (and being) wrong, has knowledge and intelligence that have never been foreshadowed or alluded to in the past…
I don’t love Spinnerette– in particular, it bothers me that they replace updates with ads for their books and stuff on a very regular basis– but I’ve been passively following it lately, mostly for the art, and it looks like they’re starting to explore PTSD as a result of the Colonel Glass thing. How well they handle it remains to be seen.
Ok, here’s my issue: it is not illegal to intervene to stop a crime from happening- in the case of preventing harm to another, it is actually a right. (that is, you have a right to self-defense, and the defense of others- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense)
It is also not illegal to make a citizen’s arrest- assuming you do it properly. (i.e. you must inform them that you are not a police officer and that they are under citizen’s arrest until a police officer arrives)
Finally, it is not illegal to walk around the city, thereby increasing the opportunities one would have to prevent such activity.
Vigilantism generally implies not just arrest, but illegal execution of justice- I.E. you do not just arrest, but then hang someone for rape, or horse theft, or whatever. It is illegal because there is no proper due process performed in accordance with the laws of the governing authority.
There’d pretty much have to be a special law made to prevent masked heroes from saving people and performing citizen’s arrests- otherwise it’d be legal, as it is in the real world, barring specific legislation.
It should be said though that a police officer could decide to arrest a superhero for questioning (say on suspicion of trespassing) and if the superhero would then be unmasked, or become a criminal themselves by fleeing.
The problem isn’t defence of others, it’s that using superpowers/ gadgets against suspects tends to cross the line from citizen arrest to assault, and that fights tend to rapidly escalate to endanger bystanders/ cause collateral damage. Since there are laws against “actions likely to cause a breach in peace”, actively looking for a situation where such actions are the inevitable result is also against the law.
The whole point is to get them training as to learn how to prevent collateral damage (Maxima’s lecture to Halo at the restaurant), and what the appropriate level of violence is in any situation, as well as the actual laws so they know what the suspect is actually guilty of (For Whom the Bell Tolls was legally a bystander) and when they are in danger of breaking the law themselves.
Then that’d be dealt with on a case by case basis- said hero would be charged with assault and property damage, etc, -if they committed such- and warrants would be issued. At least that’s how it’d work under real world laws.
I’m saying that Dave should make a point of mentioning the specific law that outlaws powered/masked do-gooders, because there would have to be one to justify arresting a specific hero for doing nothing more, than say, intervening in a bank robbery, or stopping a mugging.
And the whole point is not training, it is quite clearly government control of active supers- the choice as presented by ARCSWAT is join, or go inactive/stop fighting crime. It’s not “get certified to fight crime”. You are either with the government, or not allowed to stop crime, according to Maxima, and that would require specific legislation.
It was part of the press conference if I remember right. As part of the same law establishing ArcSWAT et all. Which is one reason they aren’t jumping right to prosecution of Vigilante Supers. Before the law super powers weren’t classed as anything. After the law they fall into the same range as “weapons”. While having them isn’t illegal and doesn’t require a license, using them in conjunction with a crime adds to the charges.
Instead of assault, it is now assault with a deadly super power. Other instances get less clear. Like ticketing a speedster for Jaywalking if you catch them running in traffic. Although now local cities could class super powers as part of their fines, such that running in traffic while using a super power carries a bigger fine.
The entire point of tossing more laws & regulations makes people either not bother or ignore the law.
When the illegal alien who drove his unregistered, unlicensed uninsured self into muddy water that a sign in English warned not to drive through sued the people who rescued him, every first responder that read about it decided not to help Hispanics if off duty.
Wish I could vote this up.
If nothing else, the vigilantes who don’t want to be forced to work with a team, in uniform, on someone else’s hours and dime, should be allowed to come in for mandatory training for a certain period, given some sort of super-vigilante license, and recognized as as a local asset wherever they’re located. Assistance to police, and assistance to Arc-Swat if it has to operate in the area.
That would be more intelligent than locking up the ones who don’t want to become soldiers or forcing them to sit on their hands and never do anything when they have the power to make a difference.
I really hope Dave shows a more realistic backlash to that policy, such as a masked hero refusing to intercede to save lives when they otherwise could.
Imagine a bank robbery where the perps are using high powered assault rifles, and the former hero shows up, in costume, just floating in the sky above the cop cordon, sitting there eating popcorn while the perps execute hostages then get in a huge gunfight with the swat team that results in their death and the deaths of a few officers. Then said hero gets asked by the onsite news crew why they didn’t intervene, whereupon they say they would’ve liked to, but ARCSWAT made it pretty clear they’d murder us if we didn’t do exactly what they said to do, and they said to not do any superheroing. “Did you see what she did to that tank? Did you hear what that lady said? So I’m not doing a damn thing, because I don’t want to die. I could have saved people here, but they outlawed it, so take it up with them.”
Then the inevitable media shitstorm against ARCSWAT would follow.
That would make for some incredibly interesting world-building and unintended backlash on a fledgling organization, showing that they don’t have 100% of their bases covered.
Defiantly would like to see that. Though I thing the web comic “Does not play well with others,” did something simaler with all the bitching people did with the superman movie.
Not just that but there is also Youtube. One Youtube video of Maxima’s heavyhanded approach to problems if she tries to threaten a vigilante into signing up with Arc-Swat will sink public support faster than a white cop can throw a black student across a classroom.
This is also not counting the supers who are better off left alone. At one point, there was a really good conversation between General Ross and Doc Samson where Doc Samson said (paraphrased): Look, every time you engage the Hulk, you just wind him up into a rampage. Instead of that, we should just have a Hulk alert similar to a hurricane alert. If the Hulk is approaching a town, we get everyone out of the way. This way, he calms down much faster and with far less property damage.
As Supreme Power showed, certain supers such as Superman can’t really be bent into service. Other supers like Magneto (who, in the Marvel Universe, retires every so often only to have SHIELD decide that it’s a good idea to capture/kill him instead of letting him just retire.) or, more recently, Cyclops are not only powerful but they are attached to social agendas that can’t just be swept under the rug. Trying to strongarm a black superhero who is trying to run drug dealers out of his/her neighborhood because the police have a history of brutal crackdowns and aren’t trusted by the locals is going to end badly for Arc-Swat.
For that matter, how would some of the team feel about it? If Maxima were ordered to drop the hammer on Moonshadow from Strong Female Protagonist (A webcomic that I have something of a love/hate relationship with.), would her reaction be “Yes, sir” or “Look, I gotta tell you that I’m having trouble bringing someone down hard whose crime is executing rapists even if she is a bit of a nutbake.”
Everyone is free to imagine where the comic will go. But, in case you are worried, Maxima may have a short temper, but her trigger for that is sexism, rather than vigilantism. So we are not too likely to see her turning into a corrupt cop and beating up vigilantes.
After all that is the kind of behaviour that she, as the head of Arc-SWAT is trying to stamp out by ensuring that supers do not take the law into their own hands!
Further we should not read too much into her aggressiveness in the fight. She has no more immunity to mental attacks than a normal human, so was subject to Vehemence’s aggro aura the same as every one else. In fact given her raw power it is to her credit that she remained as restrained as she was.
Obviously her mini-nuke was a major intimidation tactic. But one aimed at showing that no one should think that their powers cannot be opposed by Arc-SWAT. There is no hint that she will be of a violent or bullying nature to those who oppose her.
Again do not confuse her training with Sydney, on the gun range as being bullying. It was a shock tactic designed to get the message across instantly and permanently. I believe it worked.
Beyond that we have repeatedly seen Maxima trying to drill responsibility, control, situational awareness, being aware of who and what is behind a target into Halo. These are not things an out of control corrupt bully cares about.
Clearly we will see vigilantes being dealt with soon, but I suspect your mind’s eye is being unnecessarily violent.
Mind you I will grant that Zephan setting up a covert super register, contrary to the public announcement that there will be no super registration,* does weaken trust in Archon, in my own mind.
* Technically not the same thing, but they are similar enough to reasonably compare them. Most importantly they can be used for exactly the same purposes, that cause the mutants to oppose them in the Marvel universe.
Strongarming somebody can take more forms than Maxima knocking someone’s head off. Just having a woman (who can project daisy cutters) threatening the aforementioned minority vigilante would be enough to start turning public opinion polls around.
If anyone on the team unlawfully threatens a member of the public, vigilante or not, they will be held accountable, and if it is unjustified, arrested. I simply do not see Maxima condoning illegal activity in her own team, any more than she would conduct it herself.
When confronting a criminal, police have procedures that they go through. In this case complicated by the possibility of offering the vigilante a pardon. If they accept that, then no coercion or force is needed. So let us assume they refuse. If they have done nothing illegal, they will be warned clearly as to their legal position, should they do so. Then sent about their business.
*eager crowds with smartphones, all sob that they caught no incriminating video*
Whereas if they were doing something both illegal and arrestable (not all crime warrants an arrest), then they will be arrested. If they resist, then proportionate force will be used, sufficient to both protect the cops (and any innocent bystanders) and proceed with the arrest.
*smartphones capturing scenes of reasonable force being used to conduct policing duties*
This is no different to regular policing. Do not forget that thousands of successful arrests are made around the world, every day. Those do not get clips shown on TV. Only the very rare ones that cock it up do.
Although spectacular super hero arrests probably would have a market. So our smartphone citizen journalists can celebrate, down the pub, later. Oh, and those opinion polls you mentioned? Unless the vigilante was really popular, those would probably go up.
Our protagonists are good cops. Ones who are upholding heroic traditions. So no need to assume the worst from them.
As for taking down someone who executes people, Maxima better do that. Or she ceases to be a cop! That is the worst end of the vigilante spectrum. It matters not what her victim’s crimes are alleged to be.
The vigilante is setting herself above the rest of society and deciding to bypass due process to become Judge, Jury and Executioner. With all the risks of miscarriages of justice that do happen with extra-judicial killings. Especially when you look at real world examples. Lone vigilantes and mobs are typified by emotive responses that have no logic to them. Totally innocent people get killed and maimed all the time.
Even a paediatrician got killed because vigilantes thought that meant he was a paedophile! Just like your example, they were sure they had right on their side, after all they were killing a child-rapist. Nope they were killing a doctor who treated sick children.
She should be arrested and sent to Arc-Ageas on trial for murder. Using such force as is necessary to overcome her. I would not consider a serial killer to be a suitable candidate for pardon and admission into Arc-SWAT myself.
Note all this is based purely on the paragraph you described. I am not familiar with the comic in question, and there might be all sorts of mitigating circumstances that redeem her behaviour there. And I can understand anyone’s bond with a beloved character. I would forgive Sydney for using vigilantes in a clay-pigeon shooting spree. But I would expect Maxima to hunt her down, nonetheless!
I think that that is probably unlikely to happen. Granting people immunity from certain areas of the law just because they have superpowers would be a big issue with the media and such.
Anyone can go in for training that would grant them an advantage in a crime-prevention situation such as martial arts or firearm-carry permit or whatever. No-one is going to have an issue with a super stopping a crime they encounter.
However a super regularly and repeatedly breaking the law through vigilante-ism is probably going to be told to stop, offered an ARCHON position, where they can do it legally, or if they persist, treated like any other, criminal.
Since many supers are otherwise amateurs at law enforcement, you can imagine the legal and media repercussions of letting criminals continue their activities, particularly after the first few times that they injure or kill people who turn out to be innocent.
As pointed out before, vigilantism isn’t when a super happens to stop a crime. Its when it is when anyone starts to deliberately seek out criminals themselves in order to beat them up etc.
The 3rd or 4th time the same super “just happens” to be in a position to stop the criminals, questions will likely be asked. If they knew where there would be a crime in place, why didn’t they contact the authorities etc.
If it becomes evident that they are being a vigilante, then they are a criminal. It doesn’t require a law to be specifically drafted to prosecute masked super vigilantes. It would require a law to be specifically drafted not to prosecute masked vigilantes.
If the super can convince the authorities, on multiple occasions, that they had legitimate reasons to be there, and acted properly and legally at all times, then they are not a vigilante. They will not be able to do that whilst wearing a mask though. Refusing to identify themselves, when legitimately challenged by a police officer, is likely to be covered by some statute, or another, in most jurisdictions.
The first time that they make a mistake and injure, kill or illegally arrest someone, then they will have the book thrown at them. And if they refuse to come quietly, they will be hunted down like any other fugitive.
Alternatively, if they are so desperate to play super hero, there is a risk free way of doing it. Join Archon.
Or find work in the private sector. They can get training and a licence, in order to operate as a security guard for high risk enterprises. All the thrills they want, but having proper training to make sure they do it safely and legally. Oh and they would get loads of money for doing that too.
i’m not sure i believe secret identities are as impossible as max claims. that might just be her lawful good paladin outlook talking. forensics aren’t omninicient they just seem so from the outside. by design. as for arc being super elite. they’re godlikeness is also just pr. they are powerful. but a typical workday for them involves grabass games not diligently hunting down a list of suspects equal to the population of detroit. they can certainly catch a vigilante a week but at a certain point too much success or overzealousness in this pursuit would make them look like the bad guys. also not every superhero wants to work for the us government. sometimes the gov can be pretty villainous in the interests of national security. max’s bias on this viewpoint is probably more dangerous than a vigilante one. her policy decisions can effect entire nations where a vigilante can only effect thing the size of a frat party.
Lawful good? More like Lawful Neutral.
So I can’t help but notice that a certain Spinerette are in this page on the list of potential Supers to invite….
Really? Where? o_O
3rd panel, the one with the 5 heroes inside small circles, the Center one on the top row are Spinerette, you can see her giving the Piece sign with all 6 hands if you look carefully
Guesticus is being cheeky. He is as big a Spinny fan, and champion, as I am for Sydney. Plus the comic itself has long been in the top pics of those recommended on this website, so she is widely recognised here.
Mind you I promoted Spinny heavily myself, back in the day. And Guesticus‘s fan credentials for the Grrl Power heroines are flawless. He will not even allow me to cast nastercians on Harem’s character!
At first I thought it might be Dr. McNinja but there was no stethoscope or lab coat so I figured that it couldn’t be. Knew Spinnerette though :)
I was thinking “Wait a second, is that Ask a Ninja?” and then the text confirmed it.
Also, his show isn’t entirely dead… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejTp_lMsf5U
So much crossover potential! *Drools.
Who is Marble Maiden???
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/366
Well recalled.
Yet another Cease and Desist for Spinny, will heather ever win
Tune in next week
Marble Maiden is the most spathic vigilante I’ve ever seen!
Applause.
Bwahaha, try to pick up some DNA evidence on Countdown!
https://www.3mm-crisisstrike.com/3mmcomic/striking-sparks-page-nine/
Yeah he teleports out everything that teleports in so he leaves no evidence behind.
By the way, the legend of vigilantes is (like most legends) somewhat exaggerated.
From what I’ve read, in almost all cases in the American “wild west” the vigilantes collected evidence and suspects and turned them over to local law enforcement. One of the few exceptions broke up (well, hanged) a cattle rustling gang headed by the local sheriff.
For that matter, “Wild West” was actually a traveling show run by “Buffalo” Bill Cody. At the time it was running, practically no part of the American West had a murder rate higher than that of New York City.
There were more than a few cases way back when of people getting tarred and feathered, or run out of town on a rail, both of which definitely were examples of vigilantism. Kinda wish we’d kept the whole “tarring and feathering of corrupt politicians” thing.
Yeah, in many cases they were committees of concerned citizens with a rules and a charter, whose job it was to enforce laws in the absence of sworn officers, and usually disbanded as soon as official law enforcement entered the area.
The big problem was that they had no outside checks on their power, making summary summary justice and kangaroo trials a bit too common for anyone’s liking. Especially in areas where the police and court presence was especially weak or just plain corrupt.
With all due respect to the materials you have come across to-date, I suspect your reading could do with a bit of expanding. Here is just the first item on the list when I googled “vigilantism history”. An excerpt from it being:
To sum it up, there’s two forms of vigilantism: the organized form, and the lynch mob (aka “torches and pitchforks”).
The organized form occurs when people settle an area and realize there’s no effective law enforcement or court system, and set up a “vigilance committee” to handle those functions until the local government can take over. You found this type settling claim disputes at new mining towns, for instance. They often disband voluntarily when a government presence was established. In fiction, the Bat family and the JLA (sometimes) is a version of this.
The lynch mob is the more famous type–an individual or mob who appoint themselves police, judge, jury, and executioner, usually without regard for due process and with no real presumption of innocence.
The two versions frequently overlap.
Also glossing over the cost of DNA testing.
Cheapo do-it yourself kits run between $50(sale prices) and $400 dollars that don’t cover the whole genome or shipping.
Full genome sequencing is at least $1000
Current U.S. population $325 Million
So low end is 32 billion, high end 3.2 billion
U.S. budget for 2015, total revenue $3.249 trillion
Darn it:
So low end is 32 billion, high end 325 billion
Cost goes down with scale. Plus the cost has been falling rapidly anyhow. You used to need to add several zeroes and months or years. But it does not matter if it gets cheap enough to put it in a packet of Cornflakes as a free gadget, it is still something we need to realise the risks, before getting over-excited about the benefits.
Once you have a precise nationwide genome database it is easy to check genetically targeted biological weapons potential effectiveness. Currently it would be very dangerous to try and target, let us say Hispanic genetic markers. Far too likely to kill many other ethnic groups too.
But if you can find a reliable marker, which does not cause too much collateral damage, then genocide can be conducted, without anyone being able to easily prove who was responsible.
And for anyone who thinks such markers would be lost in the general population, there are studies which can pick out, in Jewish populations, who belongs to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. Yes, there is bleed-through to other ethnic groups. But not as much as you may think.
Ok this is only talking in broad sweeps, with doubtless many exceptions. Hence why we are relatively safe from such risks now.
But with the database such assumptions and generalisations do not have to be made, you can tell exactly. Unless you are a fan of the ultimate solution, fight such an introduction to your dying breath!
Cost can go down by scale but there is a limit based on cost of materials, facilities, personnel, etc.
Scale also introduces other problems.
How long do you think it would take to collect and process 325 million DNA samples?
What about the cost of collecting the sample? Cataloging who has been sampled and who has not? Sending people to forcibly collect samples
All very reasonable points :)
And there will be people who will die before they co-operate with such a process. Taking as many of the representatives of the oppressive state with them as they can.
Factor in super powers to that equation, and there should be quite some bloodbath, across the nation which attempts to do that.
“Once you have a precise nationwide genome database it is easy to check genetically targeted biological weapons potential effectiveness.”
Another problem with specific-target weapons is that people do quite a bit of cross-breeding…At best, they can specifically target maybe 80% of a specific ethnic type; the other 20% that misses while be immunities inherited from their ancestors due to similar cross-breeding in the past. There’s also going to be a fairly high amount (20% or 30%, if I correctly remember the article I read) that don’t seem to be part of the targeted group, but will carry some of the vulnerabilities in their genes.
This becomes a problem, because any racist jerkwad that develops a bio-weapon to kill off a particular ethnic group may unknowingly have some of that group in his own genes & could die too!
Regarding the last though, if there is a nationwide genetic database, he can just check his nearest and dearest, ensure that they will be ok. Simply considering the likely losses, amongst the rest of his ethnic group, to be collateral damage. There will be no unknown element to deter him.
Whereas, if he finds he will loose people he cares about, he can keep trying alternate markers, until he finds one with an acceptable outcome.
Darn it:
So low end is 32 billion, high end 325 billion
Oh, and we know Marble Maiden’s secret identity. It’s right there in the caption of the selfie. ;)
Ooh, that would also serve to explain this thread. With the addition of a couple of water melons, to aid in the disguise.
Not, I hasten to add, that I felt the observations were justified. She is perfectly normal looking. Barring that whole being made of marble thing.
Aw, leave Ronnie alone! She hasn’t stomped a downtown on accident recently. Though the number of pervs that come running to watch her fights from below her heels are a bit of an issue…
please add spinnerette to the team xD
ok here’s an example from the real world :
https://reallifesuperheroes.com/
one of the “undercover” heros from / on this website – phoenix jones –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Jones
got in trouble with the cops – and during that, got his cover TOTALLY BLOWN –
everyone now knows who he is. He escaped doing jail time w/ a lawyer’s help –
but both his superhero ID and his real ID are now wikipedia knowledge.
THAT is what would happen, in realistic comic books, for any hero or villian
that the law enforcement authorities manage to catch. with or without help from
law enforcement-approved superheros like ARCHON.
No, that’s NOT in fact what would happen to anyone being a super-hero or a super-villain in a realistic comic book, that’s a very UNrealistic position to have. What’s plausible is that some for one reason or another would end up caught out but many would not and have no problems maintaining a secret and a public ID. A shapeshifter for example could easily as a criminal go uncaught simply because there’s no way to track him for every moment needed to connect him back to his secret ID.
What you are proposing is a super power ideal to maintaining a secret identity. So that is not a fair counter to antsy‘s proposal, which clearly is covering the full spectrum of supers. We already have a clear idea of the most common super types: tough and strong brawlers in first place, with glass cannon blasters in second. But let us see who, on our team has powers that would intrinsically help:
Pass: Dabbler, Harem
Fail: Maxima,* Halo, Anvil, Heatwave, Mr Amorphous,** Achilles, Super Hiro, Stalwart & Jiggawatt.***
Flight does have its uses in evading capture. But it is situational, for instance not helping indoors, nor countering CCTV. And the average super flyers are actually below the flight speed of conventional aircraft, such as jet fighters. So are nowhere near the shapeshifter ballpark usefullness. Not to mention that bystanders tend to notice when they see flying people.
* Super speed for quick change might help Clark Kent. But he does not have golden skin, nor purple hair.
** His ability is not good enough to do disguises. Mr Amorphous needed to get a spell, from Arc-Light, for that, in the bank robbery/ ambulance.
*** Whilst she does have teleportation-like powers they are far too showy to help discreetly slipping away from a scene, to change identity. Half the city will see where Jiggawatt is travelling.
“Not to mention that bystanders tend to notice when they see flying people.”
Nah, people don’t look up much. The pigeons just loves it when they do that…
:-/
The average super would have as much opportunity as long as their powers didn’t cause them to have a distinctive un-concealable feature to remain secret as we see with many non-supers who engage in activities that could draw attention from the authorities. Shape-shifters are just one example, teleporters another, same with someone who can create duplicates of himself or create illusions to conceal himself in. I’m not going to go down a list but it’s again very IMplausible to insist that ‘reality’ has it that they’d all end up caught and their secret identities outed because that’s not reality. Criminals in mundane disguises have had no problems getting away with crimes and never being caught, or if they were caught it was only after committing multiple crimes leaving behind just enough evidence that eventually the police caught them out. Just look at John List, murdered his family and it was nearly 20 years before he was caught and only on a fluke, and there are many serial killers who’ve never been caught. So a cautious super or one with the right powers could easily manage a secret ID.
Your comments are reasonable, but re-examine them to see a flaw. The general argument has arisen because of comic lovers who want heroes who can do the spandex thing, to beat up villains. Your reply though cites how easy it is for criminals to conceal their identity.
So your case is reasonably suited for super villains. Archon will have as much difficulty in tracking them down as regular cops do normal villains. Assuming that the presence of powers on both sides of the equation approximately counter each other.
Bear in mind that criminals do not just slip a mask on. They also use a variety of other techniques too. Changing number plates. Stealing cars. Using forged identification. Killing or intimidating witnesses. All of which are illegal.
So for a heroic vigilante the task will not be as easy as you are proposing. Not if they are genuinely trying to do good.
Trouble is of course, that vigilantes will find themselves accidentally committing crimes. Then trying to justify that it was an accident, and doing what they can to cover it up. Digging themselves in further. And stretching their morals, to justify keeping their secret.
‘Oh, that is the villain’s car, sure I can use that to get away in.’
‘Dammit, that CCTV caught me when I raised my mask, I had better find the tape and destroy it.’
So, yea, vigilantes, like any other criminal can work to hide their identity. On the other side of the equation is that police forces have a variety of techniques at their disposal too.
Notably you failed to list the powers that super investigators like Arc-Light may be able to deploy. Is your teleporter capable of blocking a psychic viewing the scene of the crime, a day after the event, and catching them without their mask on? Can your illusionist shield his thoughts, to stop a telepath finding out his real name?
Even on the team, we know both your illusionist and shape shifter will stand out like a sore thumb, when Halo deploys her True Sight Orb. Bye bye secret identity!
I feel like I’m the bad guy for thinking Marble Maiden would probably have some unique wardrobe awkwardness issues
I’m more amused that she feels it necessary to wear a mask to protect her identity :-)
“Can you identify the vigilate sir?”
‘Well, she was wearing white leather and her skin looked like green marble, oh and her hair like grey/white marble’
“Hmm, could you work with a sketch artist to get a likeness?”
‘Sorry, she was wearing a domino mask, couldn’t really see her upper face at all’
“Damn, we’ve got no way of identifying her then.”
:-D
Clark Kent got by for years with just a pair of glasses…
Actually, there’s more to it than just glasses. He slouches to look a bit shorter as a part of the disguise, as well as changes his facial expressions. When wearing the cape, he vibrates his head (no pun intended) so that cameras only get a blurry image for his face. There’s quite a few techniques he uses; these are just a few tricks he uses.
You slipped into a Mary Poppins cadence, at the end there.
https://ocdgirl.smackjeeves.com/comics/1734991/introducing-ocd-girl/
readable OCD Girl link on Smackjeeves
you can also just zoom in on her regular articles. they are high res and show up crystal clear even zoomed in.
Thanks for linking that. By far the best solution. The other way is just too much hastle for me to bother with, even with the ‘easy fix’ solutions folks propose. I like a nice simple ‘next’ and ‘previous’ button arrangement.
That is not the first comic which looked like it had real potential, but just put me off for lacking a decent interface.
*settles down for an obsessive compulsive archive trawl*
Chuckle. Snort. Hor hor. Ha ha… throat is getting raw… ouch… he he…can’t stop… not… until… I… reach… the … end!
Say, that was a rather… short archive.
*cries*
Does this imply that Spinnerette takes place in the same universe as Grrlpower? Or is this a parallel world, and this is this world’s Spinnerette?
Neither. It is just a fun imagining with cameos.
Don’t forget that Grrl Power is this world + super powers. So Spinnerette and Giant Girl are online comics in their world. Therefore if the characters lack a mental image for something, they too might envisage the same kinds of things we may.
It doesn’t require DNA tests to deduce who Batman is. It’s actually really, really simple.
Just take the population of Gotham, and remove all the women from the lineup. Next, remove men based on age, race, height, weight, and so on until you have a much smaller list. Now remove men based on a psyche profile, including economic status. Clearly all the resources that Batman uses are extremely expensive.
You keep doing this until you have a much narrower list of suspects. That’s when you investigate, follow, and scrutinize each suspect based on the above-mentioned profile. And OH! Guess who fits this profile perfectly? A billionaire who’s parents were murdered in an alley right in front of him when he was a boy.
Heck, Batman: Year One actually had Bruce as the number one suspect for more than half the film.
Two things,
One it probably would allow the government to build a database easier if they passed the law regarding healthcare so that when an infant is born its DNA is added to a database in sequence and a health report is given to the parents for insurance purposes of course now it wouldn’t instantly give you the database you need but given 30-40 years, not only would you have a database complete enough to dramatically increase DNA is used in crime cases but scientists would have all the information they need to identify genetic traits and gene factors for health risks and other features.
Two, when someone mentioned walking around city hoping to get involved in crime to be a justified vigilante he reminded me of the book series superheroes anonymous in which the main character was dubbed hostage girl by the news media for being the most kidnapped person in the city.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JZOX5DG?ie=UTF8&redirectFromSS=1&pc_redir=T1&noEncodingTag=1&fp=1
There was a storyline a few years back where Superman and Batman were working together and Batman was musing to himself about how Perry White was much too skilled an investigative journalist not to have deduced who Clark was after all the years they had worked together, which then lead him to musing about James Gordon’s deductive abilities and a conclusion that both he and Clark owed a lot to the people around them.
Oh dang it, that was supposed to be a response to A Grey Phantom.
What happens if there’s an Infokinetic or wizard out there and starts doing things like making a given piece of information impossible to write down, or anyone without special abilities subconsciously ignore the information, or make all information related to superhuman crime point towards the government?
Then there’s evidence tampering and evidence manufacturing. Once a few supers are known, people -especially criminals- will be able to plant evidence easily enough, especially people with powers. A shapeshifter could frame people or even leave DNA evidence if he shifts at a molecular level, anyone with mind-control could have witnesses and experts testify whatever they want and so on and so forth.
If they are good enough at it, they will get away with it. Possibly for years or decades. And there could be hundreds of miscarriages of justice.
Someday though they may pick on the wrong victim. Someone who could not possibly have done something they were being framed for, and provably so. Or just someone who is trusted by the right people.
Or Arc-Light get called in because prosecutors notice a spike in the claims of such. Statistics will show how frequently they normally occur. And a cluster in once city or with other correlating connection (say amongst workers in one company or public body) would stand out under analysis.
Then a variety of super techniques get deployed, in addition to the mundane ones. Telepaths, diviners, empaths, Sydney’s True Sight and so on. Sooner or later they will find a weakness in the perpetrators technique. They cannot counter everything that Arc-Light can throw at it, once suspicion is aroused.
You know, whenever people talk about how secret identities no longer work (or at no longer capable of working), I admit, I kind of tense up. They’re just so built into the genre that it strikes me as one of those “do not point out the Emperor is naked” things.
That said, for a universe without a history of costumed vigilantes, and supers only really popping up in the modern age, this makes sense.
And it’s a little big brother-y, but I’ve always thought we should have a national fingerprint and DNA database of every citizen or resident, acquired when you get your driver’s license or ID.
Something similar to that has been proposed before, and gotten stomped by the ACLU and privacy rights activists. Examples below:
(1) The military keeps the DNA profile of every service member. But the ONLY way they were able to do that, was to say that it was only to verify the identity of a body if the dog tags were missing… that it would be illegal to use it for any other purpose.
(2) The FBI was only able to create CODIS because it doesn’t contain any personal information. If you run someone’s DNA through CODIS and get a match, the only information it gives you is an index number and the contact information of the lab that created the profile.
Simply put, the “national fingerprint and DNA database of every citizen or resident” is not going to happen any time soon, because people like to have at least some degree of privacy.
I found Sydney’s alcohol of choice.
https://www.masterofmalt.com/vodka/the-hot-enough-vodka-co/250000-scovilles-naga-chilli-vodka-50cl/
https://youtu.be/IKVmXcwk03Q?t=1m35s
And this:
https://www.masterofmalt.com/vodka/the-hot-enough-vodka-co/500000-scovilles-naga-chilli-vodka/
I wonder if Sydney is able to handle alcohol very well. I know she can handle heat, but she’s like… 90 pounds :) Somehow I think she would get plastered REALLY quickly :)
I certainly think that their advertising write up and warning author is a fan of Grrl Power.
Katy, would that be you?
*sniffs suspiciously at the kitty Katy*
Psst, if so, are there any free samples going?
I think you may want to revisit the text box in the last panel. “Unsurprising given she is made of stone, but we think we’ll be ready to serve her in a week or two at the most given her inveterate selfies.” Took me a couple rereads to understand that the ‘unsurprising…’ was referring to the previous sentence and not to the the sentence it was within.
Still loving the comic.
Agreed, it would be improved if that were tweaked. The full stop at the end of the first sentence could be turned into a comma. With the comma after stone becoming the period.
One question that I haven’t seen answered elsewhere –
Would a super with a generic “healing” power get in trouble for practicing medicine without a license? Presuming for the sake of argument that:
He/she doesn’t actually have a license,
The healing done would need a medical license if done/tried by someone without super healing, and
It’s not like the healing in “A Girl and Her Fed” (where it’s easier to melt flesh and bone than regrow it if you’re not careful and knowledgeable).
I’ve always felt that white mages were the scariest things in Final Fantasy, lol. Any magic healer is, really- think about what they do. They’re not just restoring you to how you were, they are restoring you to how they think you should be. And the precision and sheer incredible knowledge of human anatomy, biology, microbiology, and genetics required to do that is mindboggling. If they can re-grow an arm, why can’t they have you grow an extra? Or modify your body to be like the protagonists at the end of “I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream”. Or, make a designed super-plague, or retro-virus, etc.
If you can cure disease, you can cause it. A rogue white mage would make your average black mage look like a kitten in terms of sheer genocidal capability, I think.
I know you’re referring specifically to the white mages in Final Fantasy, but in regards to supers with healing powers, however – you’d have to find out if their power has a built-in restriction or not. For example, their power might have the restriction that they can only restore you to how your DNA says you should be. In that case, you can forget about extra arms or whatever. Healers with that restriction are much less scary than the ones without restriction.
DNA doesn’t preclude having an extra arm, it just precludes you growing one naturally. I assure you, if you grew a clone for spare parts, then transplanted the arms from it onto you, they shouldn’t be rejected by the body. The body doesn’t have a lot of ways to say oh, this part should physically be here or oh, it shouldnt- which is one of the reasons cancer is a problem. Basically it’s evaluating things from a cellular perspective- if a cell is the same as a body cell, It’s OK- it’s location isn’t vetted.
And since magic healing is supernatural by definition, it’s pretty logical to assume that the same processes to supernaturally regrow an arm would allow you to grow an extra on the affected person, if you desired. My point is that a healing power is WAY more complicated than, say, a fire power- your fire dude is just injecting thermal energy into things, whereas a healer has to be able to affect millions of microscopic cells in just the right way, simultaneously. And if they can do that, they can do a LOT else.
To be explicit, healing is basically the ability to perceive all the way down to the atomic level; the ability to process the insane amount of data from that perception; the ability to telekinetically affect individual atoms; a complete and thorough knowledge and understanding of every aspect of human biology, all the way down to how every gene is individually expressed and modulated; the intelligence to determine a course of action based on the both the perception of the target’s biological state and their knowledge of human physiology; and the ability to perform 10s of millions of simultaneous atomic level telekinetic actions based on that determination.
A super with the power to heal others isn’t practicing medicine, there are no laws that require you be a doctor to use a super ability to just heal people rather than what doctors do which is simply try and make it to where the body’s natural healing can fix things after they undo as much as they can (like setting a broken arm in a cast so that natural healing will eventually rejoin the bone into one). Since the super with heal-other for a power isn’t practicing medicine he’s got nothing the legal profession can do to him because it’s not a crime, although depending on how bad the setting is some would make it so because of doctors not wanting any competition even when blocking that super from healing people means people end up crippled or dead.
Oddly enough there is actually legal precedent for this. It is illegal, in California, per No Exceptions to Medical Licensing for Religious Healers – Board of Medical Quality Assurance v. Andrews, 211 Cal. App. 3d 1346, 260 Cal. Rptr. 113 (Cal.App.Dist.6 06/29/1989)
The question under trial was not whether the practice (faith healing) was effective. Nor did it matter whether the subject wanted it. The issue was practising medicine without a licence. And healing was deemed to be in breach of that.
Different jurisdictions might have other outcomes.
Personally I feel even a super healer should get proper training and a licence. But, for any healers amongst the readership, who do not want to go to medical school, do not fear! There is already legal advice for healing without a medical licence.
So just how do you train someone in healing others, when your power is healing others? It’s a logical contradiction to expect someone with healing powers to have to somehow ‘train’ or be licensed in the use of those powers. Heck even the webomic League of Super-Redundant Heroes had a hero with healing powers and is shown in flashback in a class for doctors only to get fed up at what he was expected to learn when his powers were infinitely more capable of healing people and didn’t require him to know anything about anatomy as the powers did all the work. It’d be like expecting a hero who can fly to go to flight school to learn how to pilot a plane when it has nothing at all to do with what his power can do and does nothing to improve the usefulness of his power.
To answer that, just look at the only known healer we have. Presumably the best that the US government could afford to hire. All she does is accelerate natural healing. Whilst we should not assume she is the only one, it is a good indicator that miracle perfect healing is not a common thing here.
So one healer might be able to cure diseases. Another might have weak telekinisis and ESP to be able to operate inside people. A third might massively enhance the placebo effect, allowing her to cure someone but only if they believe she can. A fourth might grant regenerative powers.
Notably all of these will have patients who they can only partially help, or who might have complications (or a loss of faith) that causes a relapse. If the healer lacks any medical training, they cannot spot the warning signs of problems, nor predict how to cope with the parts of the condition that they are not curing. Could they be making other things worse?
The regenerative healer uses his power on a patient with a broken leg, who stands up, fully healed. Then wobbles and falls down. The leg has healed, but the bone was not set. She is now crippled for life. Thanks to the healer not understanding a basic medical technique. Let alone the far more complex ones that doctors learn.
But, on the plus side, it might not be necessary to go through seven years of medical school. Depending on the jurisdiction, someone could be trained to function within a narrow speciality only. Receiving less lengthy training suitable for that role. And having their licence indicate the limits of their right to practice.
And there was me thinking the ninja was Doctor McNinja…
Spinerette is already part of a government sanctioned team, so getting a warrant on her probably wouldn’t work. ARC is supposed to be the first such team in this comic though, so her universe and this one are kinda incompatible. There is also some legal protection for secret identities in her comic, and stuff like anonymous healthcare/hospitals for supers.
*blinks, takes a second look*
Ooh, hello there. Are you a relative?
*cocks head inquisitively to one side*
well… I have occasionally used canine avis…
I really just grabbed random syllables.
Ahh, lady luck. She toys with us again.
*chases after squeaky toy*