Grrl Power #366 – Successfully unwarranted
Back in the day before DNA tests and mass spectrometers, it’s plausible that a vigilante could maintain a secret identity, especially if you have an environment where the bad guys have some weird unspoken rule about not unmasking them the instant they get knocked out, because otherwise why wouldn’t they? But with modern forensic science, it would basically be impossible. The first time a vigilante gets their lip split in a fight, the authorities would have their DNA. Swab it off someone’s knuckle, from under a fingernail, or a little spatter on a jacket or wall. Spit, skin cells, heck, just capturing them walking down a hall could be enough for gait analysis which could enormously narrow down a list of suspects.
Edit: I just wanted to add this since a few people are pointing it out; I know getting someone’s DNA doesn’t let you immediately identify them if you don’t already have a match on file, but it’s a slam dunk once you do get that match. And if they have a brother or uncle that’s a felon, then you’re suddenly a lot closer to knowing who you’re after. Plus, if you find the same DNA at 20 different scenes, then you have evidence that the same person was involved. Otherwise when you catch the guy, he could say “Oh I only was at the one scene you have evidence for, in fact I’m not even “Vigilante Mask” just a fan of his.”
In the case of someone like Batman, it can be argued that the cops kind of rely on him unofficially and don’t work too hard to unmask him. Also Bruce Wayne probably has the resources and contacts to have his DNA and fingerprints purged from any databases, but someone like Spider-Man? Unmasking him would probably be trivial if the authorities really wanted to.
The only way to avoid being identified would be to fight crime in one of those level 5 hazmat suits, or police the whole battle area in a super OCD manner for hairs and blood and bits of dirt you tracked in from your garden, recover all your Weasel-a-rangs, even the one that slid under the newpaper press or was deflected out the window by the ninja the bad guys hired to beat you in their desperation. Also you’d have to fight quietly and hope no one calls the cops on you for the noise so you have time to clean up. No stopping daylight robberies for you! Just brawls in abandoned warehouses.
Of course I can’t mention superheroes with OCD without linking OCD-Girl! Unfortunately it’s posted with some blogging front end and I can’t figure out how to view the comics at a legible resolution. If anyone does, post in the comments and I’ll put it up here, cause the comic is pretty funny.
Panel three obviously contains some other cameos. Usually if they’re from regular “big” media sources, I like to leave it up to you guys to root them out, cause it’s fun being the person who recognized the obscure thing, but these cameos are small or single team web projects, so I’ll link them here.
The two guys on the top row are just randos I made up for that panel, but many of you should recognize Spinnerette there in the middle. If you haven’t ever checked it out it’s a well drawn and funny webcomic.
On the bottom row is the “Ask a Ninja” guy which was a very funny but unfortunately short lived youtube series… though checking the channel just now I see he’s still slowly updating, or at least remastering his old videos, so… I guess I know what I’m catching up on during lunch.
Next to him is not Carmen San Diego believe it or not, it’s Ronni Kane from another webcomic called Giant Girl Adventures. Guess what her power is?
Weird having only one person in the Who’s Who after a possibly record breaking one on the previous page.
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As has been pointed out, forensics is a confirmatory technology, not one that can pick people out of the mass population.
And given that magic is a thing in your universe, I fully anticipate that anti-scry wards/talismans that do stuff like sanitize DNA cast-offs automatically or distort the accuracy of surveillance technology will be a thing.
Sooner rather than later.
But magic can also offer up a whole new prospect for forensics. Imagine being able to determine someone’s identity through the ‘signature’ that they leave in a spell or being able to reconstruct a crime scene through temporal magical imaging. It can be quite a fascinating way of determining who did something.
I imagine the defense attorneys would just love getting evidence tossed out on the idea that using magic to confirm things qualified as an unproven/untested/unreliable science and make any evidence gathered by it inadmissible.
Not to mention being able to bring up reasonable doubt about the accuracy of *any* forensic evidence based on the proven existence of shapeshifters and illusion masters.
I was running a role playing game where one of the players (A cop) had the power to see the last ten seconds of someone’s life. They saw the entire room and death and everything. He never relied on it to close a case because well magic wasn’t largely believed in and that’s just begging for a case to be thrown out. There was also that bit of it being unreliable. Not everyone died within ten seconds. But it did give him so many leads, even if just a cause of death.
That’s not uncommon when it comes to supers (even if the setting doesn’t consider them such as, particularly a writer who’s afraid of being considered a super-hero writer) in Law Enforcement in some fashion, if their powers aid their work particularly to such a degree they have to contrive ways to make it look like they discovered the information in some other more acceptable fashion or use it to nudge things to where they can find evidence in the normal fashion when they have to cover it up.
Although now that I think about it in the Kitty Norvell novels a local cop once she starts accepting that werewolves, vampires, and all the rest are real actually calls in Kitty a few times to use her superior werewolf senses at a crime scene to help work out what happened and who might be responsible, particularly if it were a normal human or something else.
In his case, he knew what to look for to aid in forensics. He sees the direction where a woman got shot? He’d go to where the angle suggested, and ooh, look at that, a shell casing behind the couch. I had to come up with villains that had powers that made that useful, but not game breaking, like a woman that could switch bodies.
Now he has to find a way to get the suspect off charges knowing that her body may have done it, but she was not in her body at the time. Not easy when there are countless witnesses in the room it happened. Or a sniper that can hit from impossible distances and was smart enough to pick up his shell casing. (A fifty Caliber anti-materiel rifle is the ultimate in one shot one kill.) That was a fun setting.
Once you actually know who a person is, the avenues to catch them greatly expand. Particularly if they are a masked vigilante it lets you, oh, just keep an eye on them and maybe catch them in the act next time.
*IF* magic is a part of any particular universe and *if* the results of said testing can be reproduced accurately and with a certain degree of certainty, then it should be as accepted as any forensic evidence. The only reason why we accept fingerprint and DNA evidence is because we can prove that they are accurate. In the first few years/decades of those being used, it was hit or miss if they could be used to convict someone, but by now, they can be considered almost too accurate or too trusted. As with any evidence, it can be fibbed, manufactured, altered, and so forth, so whether or not it is automatically ignored just amounts to part of how things are at the time.
I think about these things a lot :)
Well thought through. There is one other aspect to consider though. Fingerprinting is based on something that we know why it works. Not just the fact that it does work. We understand enough about genetics and foetal development, to figure out how each person ends up with distinctive patterns.
Whereas with magic the underpinnings may not be understood (Dabbler probably knows, but she is not sharing). All Gwen knows is that when she utters this phrase that happens. If she does not know why, and cannot offer an explanation to a court, then there is cause to be suspicious.
Plus magic does have historical baggage associated with it. The Christian church associated it with the devil and considered magic to be infernally granted. So those of such theological persuasion would be inclined to view that 99 instances of magic working reliably would not prevent the 100th use being deliberately perverted for demonic ends.
Now in this setting demons appear to be a race of aliens possessing advanced technomagic. Combine this with the previous and even those of a secular nature would become suspicious. They will see the possibility that magic is simply granted by advanced technology. A technology which likely came from the alien race which we know to possess that.
Should they be relying on the results of something that is potentially under the control of an alien race which they know precious little about? Even if, to date, it has been consistently reliable.
It is something that has to be decided by the author of any particular world; however, one of the most important lessons that can ever be learned by a writer is that everything must have an internal consistency and operate on very specific laws which can only be circumvented by extraordinary means.
And yeah, that database of non-criminal supers probably breaks several laws.
AND is a major security vulnerability to boot.
Really shouldn’t be under ARC control.
I doubt the database breaks any laws. If it were illegal to maintain a database, banks, insurance companies, and phone companies wouldn’t be able to function. And anything you do in public isn’t protected by privacy laws, so if you are not a criminal but you are in that database, it’s probably because you did something somewhere and it wound up in the local papers or some such. Or you confessed it on Facebook, perhaps. Maybe you work for a government agency and it’s on record because you use it in your daily job, or you’re retired from the military and didn’t want to join ARC anyway–military records are already part of several databases.
As for it being a major security vulnerability, not really. No more than the IAFIS–in which I am and probably you are too, even though I have no criminal record and you may or may not (no idea about your past), because I’ve been fingerprinted for background checks for jobs working with children (school bus driver and teacher, specifically). No database is more vulnerable than its digital security allows for, which can be anywhere from “piss poor” to “it is the holy grail of hacking.” Its greatest security is probably that nobody outside of ARC and ARC-Light knows about it–unless of course Harem has told the looney-laugh guy about it, in which case that level of security is busted, but not necessarily anything else.
It breaks many in the EU. So if they record the info of any European citizens, Zephan could find himself being sent to jail. Probably for 2-3 years for isolated incidents. Possibly a lot longer if it is an extensive database. Along with anyone else heavily involved, and heavy fines for Archon itself.
Misleading, and not true for the purpose we are discussing. Databases are not illegal. But ones containing data that the organisation has no legitimate reason to obtain can and have been made illegal in all EU countries.
Given that Britain remains both the biggest banking and insurance country in the world, even after these laws have been in operation for years, disproves your point unequivocally.
“data that the organisation has no legitimate reason to obtain”
And if the laws that set up ARC are anything like sane (yes, that’s a stretch sometimes) then they probably give ARC rights to every bit of criminal and public information available on US supers. And they can use that to get legitimate warrants for more private information, based on their criminal activities. You might have a point for non-US supers, but if they operate in the US, they have less protection.
But really, what we’ve seen so far isn’t anything worse than a competent group of paparazzi could dig up.
He he. Not the best targeted defence you might have used. If you check the comments archives you will find that, should I ever run for public office, it would be on a platform that included the rounding up all paparazzi, to have them shot.*
I concede your point though, but only to a degree. Do bear in mind two key factors. Such research takes time. And the scale involved, when dealing with national populations. Albeit made easier for rarer and more high-profile groups like supers. It is a scale that makes it easier for national governments to conduct, if we permit them. And, in this instance, they have the resources to discover things which even newspapers might not.
Those two factors were vital in helping those few people who escaped the Holocaust. We have few weapons which can be used against tyranny, which do not rely on killing others. Be wary about throwing them away unthinkingly. Psst. **
* Once suitable laws had been passed, and with sufficient safeguards to allow socially useful journalists a decent chance to survive. However, it would be weighted with a presumption of guilt. To ensure that only those who can offer convincing proof, that they have done more good for the world, than harm, could have their death sentence appealed.
** Whispering: probably best not to vote me into power either. Most of my policies tend to involve shooting those people who are involved in things I deem not to be in the best interests of society. Given how opinionated I am, the streets would run with rivers of blood!
Incidentally if anyone disputes whether such laws apply to U.S. institutions, please recall that Google has suffered millions of dollars in fines, for recording wireless information they scanned, whilst creating street view maps. Had they not been able to convince regulators that their was no corporate intent to gather or use it, there was a likelihood of charges being laid against those responsible.
It might get treated like a phone book. “Hey, this guy can put out fires with a wave of his hand. Sydney caused Maxima’s hair to catch on fire from her breakfast burritos! Let’s call that guy!”
I don’t doubt that DIGITAL evidence can be left and easily traceable for government officials with enough resources.
However, the whole ‘blood and fingerprints at the scene’ thing… that only really works if your DNA is already on file (because if you leave blood or hair samples or whatever at a scene, and the police have nothing to match it to, then it’s pretty useless unless you already have an arrest record with that DNA on file. And fingerprints in general are actually very unreliable – it’s a myth that they’re effective – it usually depends on the amount of points of matching, fingerprints are NOT actually unique to each person, and … well….
You know what? here :) Adam Ruins Everything did a good job of explaining it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM1QgwaKv4s
Oh, my comments are purely to do with the retention of data by organisations. That deals with a fundamental civil right (or lack of it).
Whereas the collection and/or analysis of forensic information is an argument about how easy or hard it is to do that. It has no bearing on the issue that I raised.
Especially as it diverts attention away from the greatest danger of governments holding data like this. Namely making targeted genocide easier.
I trust Maxima. I do not know enough about either General Faulk or Zephan, to form a definitive opinion on them. I certainly do not trust their successors. We have no idea who they will be, or what society will be like when they take charge.
But they will have a convenient prioritisable death list, if they want to exterminate supers. Barring the paranoid ones who keep their powers, or identity, secret.
as an agency devoted to the regulation and policing of using powers in crimes or disasters having the potential heroes and villains on record before they need them or need to arrest them based on publicly provided data is reasonable. this is the same as employment agencies keeping a record of prior applications a person made to identify what work a person can or will do for the purpose of providing better jobs. (not that they actually do that but it would be nice not to have a electrical systems trained person offered nursing jobs and hotel janitor positions.)
The simplest retort to that is who has given their permission to have their information retained? If people want to make their services available for such service they can volunteer.
The application form should also ask, the supplementary questions:
• Is it ok to give your information to the police, without asking your permission?
• May we add your name, address and list of powers, to the national database of supers? See privacy policy for details.
Privacy policy: We guarantee this will only be used in the event of a war of extermination between humans and supers.
by this a record on facebook of being a martial arts master (while avoiding any reporting to the gov through other channels) should not be annotated to the registry of people who are trained fighters and as such may be called on to assist police in subduing violent offenders.
First off there is no such registry held by police, not in any shape or form. Secondly if the police did something like that in Europe they would be committing two offences under the Data Protection Act. Namely stealing private data (yes copying can be theft, just the same as pirating a CD or DVD), due to failing to either obtain permission or having implied consent.
In the case of peoples data on facebook consent is implied for friends, as it is a social tool. It is not however an interface designed, or used, to supply census information, or other data, to the government, or other public bodies.
The second offence is compiling a register of data with no legal justification. Such right as the police have to requisition assistance is restricted to people in the vicinity of an emergency, at the time of the emergency, and thereby cannot be invoked.
What you are describing is illegally forming a citizens militia with neither the participant’s consent nor their knowledge. Which would involve them being drafted into service, without warning, again without consent and then being required to fight in a potentially life-threatening situation!
And you think that is ok?
In post 9-11 America where the NSA does 24/7 snooping on basically everything that happens, it’s not a stretch to think that somewhere, a list of extremely useful and potentially extremely dangerous people is maintained.
if the US feels the need for a federal gun registry i’m sure it has a very detailed db with potential supers in it. also remember that the US and most western countries go about laws in a way that says “its legal until we tell you it is illegal” in that case its very unlikely a government would pass a bill protecting a supers rights wile denying their existence
More like: “It’s legal until someone uses it against the government.” Or: “It’s legal until enough people hire enough attorneys to pitch a loud enough bitch.”
Certainly on the latter, that is their job. Likely on the former. And even on the other side of the pond, I am sure that security services (GCHQ, MI6, BfV, etc) will ignore any inconvenient laws.* That is the nature of secret security agencies. They lack oversight, plus they have a tough job to do and we expect them to succeed, despite laws which make their job harder.
So society turn collective blind eyes to their activities. And we even glamorise them (does ‘licensed to kill’ ring a bell?). If we don’t actually see them doing these things, then are consciences are clear, right?
* What they should do is notify individuals that ‘Your name has been placed on a list of [first responders] to call in the event of [a biological incident]’.
Aside from complying with E.U. data protection laws,** it is also common sense. In as much as it allows them to be prepared, should that call ever come. Not to mention giving the authorities warning, before the event, in case the individual they ‘volunteered’ turns around and tells them to “Go poke your list up your arse, I have no intentions of helping the state in clearing up their self-inflicted [biological incident]”.
Note that this is all standard practice, and does not need to involve intelligence agencies (for most things). Given that disaster contingency planning is standard in most developed countries. Go into any town council office in the UK and you can find their manual. Probably in a dusty drawer somewhere. But including an (hopefully) up-to-date list of names to call, for each type of envisaged incident.
I have seen such documents, albeit on TV. But factual reporting, rather than drama. Plus have been involved in drawing up the equivalent ones for private sector companies. And even, just a few weeks ago, had the pocket guide issued to a policeman, placed into my paws to read.
** So please do not take any of my comments about this as an editorial dig at the comic. It is showing American characters behaving in a way realistic to their world-view. So even with my reservations about it, the story feels realistic.
I am just pointing out the pit-falls which do exist. Plus separating out disaster preparedness (or lack of it, from having seen FIMA not in action, before and after Katrina, in person) from policing and intelligence agency issues.
Just like what happened on “Heroes Reborn”, when Chuck and his wife stole Horn Rimmed Glasses’ car that had a list of ‘evos’: they went around and killed them, even if they were doctors or school teachers
But – Spinnerette is part of an officially recognized government agency, at least in her comic. Is she a vigilante in this universe?
Actually she isn’t a government superhero. She is a member of the national superheroes Union but that isn’t quite the same.
True, but in her comic it is enough to protect her. She has Rights under the Suprahuman Justice Act of 1974; https://www.spinnyverse.com/comic/10-08-2010
She was a Vigilante before she joined them
I know. No reason she should be singled out and put on that list considering she already belongs to a group that works with the government.
Ok, I know that there are a lot of you out there, thinking this. But who may be too shy to raise it. So allow me to broach the subject…
Spinny and Dabbler? Making out, or item potential,* as you prefer.
* I have no idea on Spinny’s current status, and would not want Mecha Maid to be hurt, so let us assume that this, alternate world, Spinny is not involved).
Not worth entertaining. Spinny-Maid ship has sailed.
I agree with you, but I would like to raise the stakes.
The comedic potential between Maxima…….and Super-MILF! You thought the arguments between Maxima and Dabbler were bad, Maxima might be holding back because an alien species would naturally have alien values. Super-Milf is totally human, and a nasty piece o’ work.
Oh yes, would love to see Maxi and SMILF in a room together ;)
So glad that someone else sees SMILF for the villain that she is :D
How could I not? She melted Dr Universe’s and Greta Gravity’s ice cream for the funzies! All minor things aside, she smacks of smug super and those guys are always just a step or two away from turning bad. Shit, if she wasn’t government sanctioned she would have turned rogue sooner or later.
I do like Dr Universe and Greta Gravity. They’re actually pretty damn close to heroic even while spouting their Objectivist tracts. I’m a big fan of them and they are what keep bringing me back to Spinnerette even if it seems a little too serious for its own good right now.
Universe and Gravity always struck me as the type that’s more in it for the SCIENCE! instead of actually being Evil as such. Other than the Government kidnapping them in order to force them to create a way to weaponize his tech.
They haven’t even done anything bad. That’s one thing that get’s me with that world. Everything they’ve done that’s “evil” is either with mistaken information “The demon study with Minerva” those demons were intruders, with the potential and inclination to do a lot of damage. Or with the knowledge that it would fail hard and were purposely wasting the other bad guys time. Like when he was cloning Hitler. Of course it would fail, and that took a lot of resources from the nazis and Roberta both.
I’m with you Adamas. They seem to be all for the sake of science and not for evil. I’ll do you one better. Every time they get given the chance to do SCIENCE! They’ve actually done some good, like extracting a favor to save Spinny’s life and powers, not even taking off her mask.
Though I do like the tension of them being the bad guys because the government deems them bad guys and no one seems to question this. It’s an interesting statement.
Bottom Lefty would have a field day, I’d suspect.
both bottom lefties as dab would exceed anything spinny could manage. beside five minutes and dab would have maid beg dab to have fun with spinny and her.
I’m gonna go with ‘not every universe’s Giant Girl is quite as powerful as the one whose adventures headline her own strip’. In her own cosmology it has been established that there are a few of her in various realities. Thus in the Grrl Power Universe, this might be a Giant Girl who can only get a few hundred feet tall. Impressive, but ultimately very limited in scope, thus nowhere near as hard to contain as the one from her home universe.
Glad you popped in and spotted your girl’s cameo so promptly. I was looking forward to what you might say, given that you are a regular commentator.
Nice to hear canon on that possibility.
I know it is just part of the page formatting, but I find it very fitting that the message you see when you hover the mouse over the comic page is ‘Click to Enlarge’.
Bustin’ makes me feel good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdyU_gW6WE
its like a jumpy cd version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPH0MoZTvY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVEIotzy3_A
Hehehe… marble… bust…
It is true that the government could get samples of DNA of the vigilantes but it they have nothing to compare it to then it is considerably more difficult to identify the person.
I recognized Spinnerette and Giant Girl right away! I read their comics for a time but lost interest after while.
The only thing that I can figure out with OCD Girl is the actual increase the zoom on the window itself. I gave it a try and found it worked.
If your browser allows it, right click the picture and select “open image in new window/tab” and that should give you a full size image.
Hey DaveB, you’re missing an “e” in “inveterate”. :)
Noted!
Batman, the Green Arrow, etc. do not fall under ARCs jurisdiction. They may be vigilantes, but they have no “superpowers”. It would be up to local law enforcement to catch them (and we all know that the Gotham PD couldn’t find their ass with both hands).
They might fall under the ‘Math’ heading, though. Individuals that are so skilled, its hard to define where skill ends and superpower(s) begin.
for the 2 its mostly gadgets.
math has an actual skill.
but i would say “if they wear tights, or any other ridiculously themed costume, it falls in”
I will cede you Green Arrow, but Bats, even without his belt of holding, is one of the worlds best martial artists.
in his world, sure.
but he had to train hard for it, and it was AFTER he got a mental trauma.
math is a natural and… have you seen his fight with anvil?!
Actually it’s been shown in the comics that GA is almost as well skilled in close combat as Bats and his accuracy isn’t limited to his bow.
Green Arrow wouldn’t, but someone could probably make the argument that once Batman shows up in his batwing armed with stinger missiles, he’s moved into a new tier of vigilante, beyond what the local authorities can deal with.
with how much batman works with the cops you may have to reclassify him as neighborhood watch dialed up to 11
It depends on which green arrow.
The cheesy comic version, probably would draw their eye. Especially the 80s/90s. I seem to remember him stopping an intercontinental missile with an intercontinental arrow he just happened to have primed and ready in a warehouse
Also depends on which universe’s Bats under discussion. The Adam West Batman was actually a licensed LEO when he was Batman.
Sure, but I’m only including continuities that validate my point. :)
Actually, it would play out as “Costumed vigilante shows up. ARCSwat shows up and takes him down. Vigilante is revealed to be “skilled normal” and turned over to local law enforcement.”
Even if they *knew* about it before hand, local LEOs could ask for assistance.
Pretty sure Marble Maiden’s shown up elsewhere before. I recall a villain who demonstrated the inadvisability of using innate magical powers against someone who actually knows and can perform magic on their own…
Mentioned, but never previously seen
Ooo, Marble Maiden is that really pretty green marble, nice!
*gives self a cookie for ID’ing the three ‘known’ chars in panel 3 before reading the comments* But does this mean the ‘ask a ninja’ ninja has mad skillz on Math’s level?
Since she is made of a green stone my preference would be to name her Malachite Maiden. On the plus side, it is a more valuable mineral, and it has a higher hardness rating on the Mohs scale, making it more durable in battle. On the minus side it does not have the immediate name recognition as marble.
By any chance is she another cameo appearance, possibly from here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Universe
We know that Steven has made a cameo himself. https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1682
Another downside: people may assume she is a guy with that name :D
The name Malachite? Being mistaken for a guy? Only if she had long white hair, a cape, and fought against the Sailor Scouts…
the nerd is strong with this one
Is that the “I am Ninja” guy from the old YouTube series?
Yes, Daniel, the indeterminably human or non-human.*
* To avoid confusion with fellow commentator Daniel the human
“Many people with powers were unclear what the government’s stance on supers was and did not necessarily advertise their abilities.”
People like Sydney who, just “yesterday” was scared out of her wits at the thought of government sponsored vivisectionists. It does make you wonder about what our heroes might run into next. Maybe it won’t be a super villain so much as just someone who finally feels free to try out their powers and ends up inadvertently causing trouble.
Remember………always expect Government sponsored vivisectionists! Their main weapon is surprise. Just ask any cattle farmer and hillbilly….oh no wait that was the “greys”
oopsy!, it’s the little known section of MIB that get’s all the bad press… good thing that the MIB can cover up MOST of the pranks they try to pull…
You’re so gullible. You think that there arent government sanctioned vivisectionists just because people from the government said there arent?!
THATS THE FIRST THING THEY’D SAY OF COURSE! All the better to hide the existence of their government sanctioned vivisectionists and their brain weasels! FLEE!
*slams gate-house doors shut, bars and locks them*
*dashes up driveway, suspending active defences, long enough to enter the primary fortification*
*upgrades automatic defences to maximum capability*
Release the killer penguins! All hands to battle stations! Initiate treble redundancy on the brain weasel protocols!
Spinny!!!! That would be an epic crossover. Please tell me krazykrow is gonna let you!!
doubtful.
in the spinnverse, the government, while not outright hostile, is rather negative towards the vigilante type people. and the general glass could walk into their base without being vaporised by maxima, which if was to exist in this world, would 100% be called in.
on the other hand… there is that rebut thing…
so not entirely impossible i guess.
but that would also mean, that at least the main crew (including Dr universe) would have to make their appearance eventually.
I think truth be told maybe they didn’t like super because they couldn’t control them and the Arc initiative might be the way to counter vigilantes like Spinny since you know it works so well in Canada. I could see this as way to move heroes into good graces and way from being against the law. Also the cross over would be awesome epic.
in grrl power arc is the first official hero team.
in spinnyverse, in USA there is only a “union”, and Canada already has a government sponsored team.
and again, maxima did not vaporize glass.
doesn’t match.
in the world that we did see it is impossible.
rebut is the only way for them to meet.
Heichooo!
*blows nose*
Sorry about that, I could not stop the sneeze.
Being honest. I hope the author doesn’t tie in Spinnerette. Since they made their universe, not one where Supers exist. But it’s actually a comic book universe … and that horrible, dream sequence arc. I just lost interest in it. And since this isn’t a “we live in a comic book universe”, but a “Supers exist in secret [until now]” one.
I really don’t like the thought of Heather Brown’s universe being brought into this. Although I do admit, after buy Season 4’s books on Kickstarter, and a year later not getting my purchase. Then, on top of that, the Dream Sequence Arc, then the Silver Age Arc. It really just killed the series for me.
Still the premise in this comic page. Where they capture vigilantes, and make offers for them to get recruited. That sounds pretty cool.
Oh! I know SpinnyVerse’s character. But who were the other cameos?
See the author’s blog above for some. Plus various readers’ comments, on this and the previous page of comments. Including from the creator of one of the characters.
Thanks for the point out. You’re quite the awesome and useful voice in your replies ^_^.
My pleasure, and thank you very much for your kind words. :-)
My pleasure, and thank you very much for your kind words. :-)
Bad bad webpage! That was one click only.
*squirts webpage with anti-gremlin stinky spray*
XD. Magical double posts. At leas the spray seems to have worked,
The team won’t be hunting down other webcomic characters in canon, (though that would kind of make an interesting whole webcomic unto itself) I just wanted some fun cameos.
Those were fun cameos I’ll have to admit (although now I’m going to have to go out and look for Giant Girl, and Ask a Ninja since they do look rather cool). And that’s good to know, I’m really going to look forward to seeing what people they track down and catch [as well as who joins the team]. Seriously this is one of the 4 webcomics I look forward to seeing update every week.
And thank you for clearing that up ^_^.
They’d have a fun time with the superhero known to some fans as Mopergirl (because the canonical name is – canonically – horrible).
I don’t know I’m not to against the name … true it could’ve been better. But when she dresses like that, and her alternate secret identity [the party girl] makes it all together rather fitting.
But yeah they’d have fun with that character. All the way until Pandora Raven [list of names], marks Halo for the lolz. And she gets the super power of Super Swearing, or bringing comic book / manga characters to life [which while being an epic super power. For Sydney would be highly abused, and earth shattering].
As others have pointed out, the fast DNA analysis and quick matching as often shown on series like CSI or NCIS is almost entirely a fictional conceit.
At least in the real world, having a DNA sample from a crime scene isn’t a magic key to immediately identify people who were there. There’s no national database of DNA, instantly searchable (nor SHOULD there be), and obtaining a sample from an individual to compare to the crime scene sample almost always requires a warrant or other court order.
In a manner of speaking, there is. Look up CODIS on Wikipedia. CODIS itself is just an index, not an actual database. There is no personal identifying information or prior criminal history; basically it just says “Hey, I got a match. Here’s the index number, and the laboratory that created the profile.”
Here’s the thing, though. More than 200 laboratories across all 50 states participate in CODIS. All 50 states have mandatory DNA collection from certain (violent) felony offenses such as sexual assault and homicide. In some states, like California, if you’re arrested for any felony (no, you don’t even have to be convicted), your DNA is collected.
True, but only if the individual isn’t already in the system.
Addendum (damn, wish I had an Edit button)… Delete the last sentence above. What I said, and what I meant to say, don’t mesh. So until I think of a better way to say what I wanted to say, ignore everything after the second blockquote.
Also, law enforcement doesn’t have to obtain the sample from a person directly, or even from their property. You relinquish all ownership of a thing when you offer it up to sanitation services, so if it’ll be quicker than getting a warrant, they can go dig through your trash for hair, skin, or whatever.
…but, you have to be careful that it has OFFICIALLY been left for pick-up. If they threw it in the trashcan beside the house it ISN’T available. Once it’s either in a communal trash container (bin/ dumpster/ etc) OR left at the curb on public property then it’s fair game. Of course if it’s from a communal can it must either be witnessed when it was tossed to insure ownership, or be in a separate bag with items that can be definitively identified (junk mail with name, etc.).
I just watched a show where the evidence was tossed because the detective admitted the cigarette they had previously claimed was left on a windowsill, had in fact been collected from an ashtray while it still smoldered. If it had gone out they could claim it had been abandoned, still burning it was still in use and illegally collected.
The Star Chamber… dealt with this EXACT SAME THING… a bunch of judges get together and hire a hitman to kill off some criminals they were forced to let go due to this conundrum and somebody else figures it out and stops them… as for the trash on the curb… nope, not until it gets mixed in with all the OTHER trash INSIDE the main chamber of the garbage truck, does it become “public”, if it is still inside the persons trash can on the sidewalk, it is STILL private property…
Nope, sorry. “Law enforcement officials do not need a warrant to search a trash can that a homeowner sets out for collection in a publicly accessible area next to his house, according to a federal appeals court ruling. [U.S. v. Redmon, No. 96-3361, 7th Cir., March 10, 1998.]”
In other words, if it’s out by the curb on pickup day, it is “public property”. They don’t have to wait until it’s inside the garbage truck.
A little background on the above case: Redmon and his next-door neighbor owned townhouse units with adjoining garages and shared a common driveway. To reach their respective entryways, one had to proceed up the driveway toward the garages. A sidewalk to Redmon’s front door branched to the left. To reach the neighbor’s front door, one had to take the sidewalk to the right.
Under suspicion for narcotics dealing, Redmon was observed on trash collection days removing garbage cans from his garage and placing them on the driveway between the garage doors. After the trash was picked up, he would carry the empty cans back inside his garage.
Acting without a search warrant, the police sifted through the contents of Redmon’s garbage while the cans were sitting outside his garage awaiting collection. They found bags and other material commonly used in packing and shipping drugs. What’s more, the seized items tested positive for cocaine.
Based on the garbage can evidence, a judge issued a search warrant for Redmon’s house where police found packages of cocaine. A federal grand jury later indicted Redmon for possessing and intending to distribute illegal drugs.
So not only does your trash not have to be “inside the garbage truck”, in this case, it wasn’t even on the curb! As Redmon could not place his trash at curbside without violating a city ordinance, his “curb” for garbage pickup purposes was outside his garage on the shared driveway. The path to his front door came near the garbage cans with no obstruction and was accessible by friends, guests, neighbors, solicitors, strangers, scavengers and other members of the public.
On top of that, in California v. Greenwood, 486 U.S. 35, 1988, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that police officers did not need a warrant to examine the contents of plastic garbage bags that a homeowner had placed at the curb. The high court held that individuals could have no reasonable expectation of privacy in trash left for collection in an area accessible to the public.
Separate concurring opinions by three judges mentioned “abandonment” as another reason to deny Fourth Amendment protection for garbage. “If an individual customarily deposits his garbage in a receptacle and leaves it for pickup by trash collectors, he has manifested an intent to abandon his refuse, which is tantamount to ‘throwing away’ an accepted and reasonable subjective exception of privacy in it …”
As a result, the appeals court rejected Redmon’s claim that items seized from his trash without a warrant violated his rights under the Fourth Amendment, and his conviction for drug trafficking was upheld.
Now, if you don’t have a shared driveway/sidewalk like Redmon did, as long as your trash cans are not at the curb waiting for pickup, you do have an expectation of privacy. As soon as those cans are put down at the curb, the police can go through them without a warrant.
So often, when people decry the speed of the lab work in CSI and whatnot forget that the case happens over a couple weeks, not in one night
Ahh, but the results still come back *far* too fast. Then again, if the results came at normal real-world speed, they would have a hard time fitting each case into just 43 minutes (the length of a one-hour episode with the commercials stripped out).
Meh, there is nothing stopping them captioning it “ten days later” or “the following month”. Apart from the fact that they loose the sense of urgency and drama that their series relies on. Rather (if they want to avoid viewers loosing their ‘suspension of disbelief’) they then need to start showing the boredom and frustration inherent to such jobs, in real life.
It would be the same 43 minutes. But with less high-paced drama and tension, there would be fewer viewers, and less advertising revenue. Plus more informed members of the public who will serve on juries without false expectations. Money vs public best interest… mmm… which will win?
Yeah, we’ve talked about that before, and I agree with you. Of course, since all three CSI shows are no longer being produced, who’s going to go back and put the captions in? Nobody, of course. Probably not even if “public best interest” won out over money.
Mind you with magic and super science to speed things up, they could start a fourth series. CSI Arc-Light, the reality documentary.
I wish Dr. Insano had been there right next to Spinnerette.
The forensics issue might make secret identities difficult if your other self had no reason to be there. Ex: Tights battles an alien in Area 52.5 (1 and a half times secret-er) leaving blood spatter would be a valid hit. Same Tights in the mall where mile mannered Ronny Sykes sometimes visits for a jeans replenishment would not be. If your heroic identity involved a “battle form” change or had a destructive aura or even touch based telekinesis then no hairs or blood of the identity would get anywhere.
Now that there would be a collectible item –Max’s TK aura keeps anything she takes damage in a fight close to her. As she winds down and showers, any skin cells and hair would collect in the drain –likely being metallic in nature– and could be recovered. Imagine a bow strung with woven Max hair…
Mild Mannered (stupid spellchecker)
you are right when talking about skin tiny bits of skin, or a hair.
however, a blood splatter is a rather strong indication that you were a part of a fight, regardless of where it was. how fresh or old it is, also gives the “time” of you being there into perspective, possibly revealing something else that happened there few minutes earlier.
btw, that was in a place, where you do have an excuse to be at the time.
Yes your honor I was at that location but not on the night in question. I collided with a young man running away from the security guard. Bloody nose from hitting the wall. Why was it on the ceiling? –I must have sneezed…
Just call in the “tainted” source and half of it all gets thrown out.
Reminds me of one of the older episodes of CSI (season 2, episode 5, “Scuba Doobie-Doo”), where a young man, due to Hepatitis, was able to spray blood from his nose on command. In the words of Grissom: “Ambidextrous. Both nostrils.” It is true that people with some forms of Hepatitis (especially Hep-C) are more prone to nose bleeds because the disease attacks the liver, which has an important function in the blood clotting process.
It’s one of the few cases of CSI where I wasn’t able to identify the murderer until the very end… turned out to be the landlord of the apartment where the guy lived, who killed his wife and stuck her in the hot water tank (which is why the hot water didn’t work, which is why the young man was spraying blood on the walls as a method of protest, which is why his girlfriend who the police thought was “missing and presumed dead” left him and went back to her ex-boyfriend in Chicago…)
Not my favorite episode, but a fun one.
As they pulled the landlord’s rubber mask off, did he say “if it hadn’t been for that interfering kid, you might have found me sooner”?
Hahaha, if only! And it’s true that the kid (I think his name was Cliff) was indirectly the reason why they found the murderer. See, in addition to the hot water problem, Cliff’s apartment shared an air vent with the landlord’s apartment. In that vent, Grissom discovers a type of beetle that feeds on decaying flesh. So they analyzed its stomach contents, found human DNA, and that was enough to get them a warrant to come back and start knocking down walls, including the landlord’s apartment (since they shared the air vent).
To make a long story short(er), they didn’t find anything in the walls, but a frustrated Grissom stops in the bathroom to wash the plaster dust off his face, only to discover that the landlord’s hot water isn’t working, so he asks to see the water tanks in the basement. You already know (or can guess) the rest.
I just realized you were riffing off the name of the episode. Actually, the name came from the other murder (most episodes of CSI had two cases), in which a diver in scuba gear was found in a tree, in a burned-out section of forest.
I thought it was always “meddling” kids . . .
No, that’s something else.
Shallow but deep.
Oh DaveB. Not sure if someone else has mentioned it (Usually Yorp is pretty much first in with them lol) but Giant Girl no longer has her hat since she threw and then bestowed it on her protégé
That’s not actually true. I’ve got a buddy that’s a forensic examiner, and while dna can be used to confirm that it matches a particular person, you either need the person at hand, or you need their DNA to already he in the system.
This is one of those things they sell us on TV dramas, that DNA can track a person, but it doesn’t. Not even close to such.
So basically, there won’t be any actual superheroes in Girl Power, just the cops/military and the villains.
There’s also the fact that many American crime labs are YEARS, and THOUSANDS of test, behind on processing evidence kits, and we’re just now seeing special funding from the federal government and NGOs to help them catch up.
Even on NCIS and CSI they can only match it to people with criminal records or to other crime scenes.
You are assuming that they don’t already have records
Yeah if they are from Florida they’ll have a record if they were ever arrested (of even non-violent crimes) not just if they were convicted.
First, left click on the OCD-Girl comic panel to get that entry on its own page. Then RIGHT-click on the comic and choose “open image in new tab”, to bring up the image by itself. They’re much larger there and easier to read.
Yeah but that’s very awkward and annoying way to read through a comic.
Just using the RSS feed works much better than that :)
On the subject of forcing supers to work for ARC or not engage in crime-fighting, I think there’s a lot gray area than the binary choice I feel like many posters are running with.
First, whatever laws apply regarding self-defense would still apply to a superhuman. In any situation where the law would consider a certain level of force justified in self-defense, the same should apply to what a superhuman is allowed to do in defense of self — or of another.
Second, the “citizen’s arrest” is a real thing, with what is and is not allowed varying from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Third, many jurisdictions have “Good Samaritan” laws that provide protection from criminal and civil liability for those who make a good-faith effort to assist another person in distress.
At least in a setting with superhumans but otherwise like our own — in many parts of the US, a superhuman who didn’t engage in “the vigilante life”, never wore a costume, and didn’t blatantly go “looking for trouble” outside of their own regular routine, wouldn’t be breaking any laws if they happened to be walking about a jewelry store being robbed and intervened. In the GP-verse, they might be breaking the laws that authorize and empower ARC, but those laws would be in direct contrast to the laws that apply to anyone without a superpower, and would stand on very shaky grounds in court, not least of all on discriminatory grounds.
Unless the GP-verse is notably different from our own, a superhuman who is randomly the target of a crime or randomly a witness to a crime in progress would be on firm legal ground if they acted to stop that crime, in many American jurisdictions.
I forgot to add…
The other part of the gray area comes from the trade-off between how much of “problem” ARC views the superhuman to be, versus how much of a problem it would be to enforce the law, versus the public reaction.
Sending in Maxima to arrest the guy who has done nothing but walk his own neighborhood every night and break up a few crimes in progress, and having it end up with the local drug store destroyed and five injured because local-guy is ultra-resilient but still subject to F=ma, just makes ARC look like a bunch of bullies with badges to many people.
Not to mention it might be bypassing the excuse of citizen’s arrests (which are legal, as opposed to vigilantism, which is not).
The main difference between vigilantism and a citizens arrest is simply that vigilantism involves the person violating the law in order to exact what they believe to be justice (which usually involves directly punishing the offender), while in a citizen’s arrest, they are not violating the law in order to exact what they see as justice (which is just usually detaining the person for the police).
For example, if you see a bank or museum robbery and stop the robbers, you are NOT going to be arrested for vigilantism. If you break into the museum in order to stop the museum robbery? Well… then you’re a vigilante, and committed an illegal act because of the breaking and entering part. Arguably. Assuming the museum is going to press charges against the person who just prevented a robbery (banks during an active robbery, like what Marble Maiden did, would even be less likely to result in an arrest, since that’s a public place and I’m assuming the bank robbery happened during business hours).
Not to mention a vigilante doesnt have the same protections from torts as a police officer does (like if you hit someone in order to take them down – police often have legal immunities in the amount of force needed to detain or arrest someone – a private citizen doesnt have any sort of municipal or state or federal legal immunity).
There’s also a lot of common law on point which lets civilians have the power of arrest when there’s a breach of the peace, but again – that differs from state to state… usually when there’s some sort of harm being done in the civilians presence, or to his property or another’s property or another’s person.
Like if I see someone breaking into someone’s car, I can stop them. I don’t have to just call police and wait while the person commits the crime. I can stop them first, THEN call the police. I don’t even technically have to wait for the police to come if i have something like zip ties available.
So the Who’s Who extends to Omar, but not to Marble Maiden. I suppose I can see the logic there, but it’s also kind of disappointing. I want to know more about these unaffiliated supers.
She didn’t actually speak
Just give ARCHON time and they will catch her, then you can hear her speak… with marbles in her mouth :P
Re OCD:
Click on the portal link to view the daily page
Right click on the thumbnail strip & choose “View Image”
DAVE! How come you didn’t include Countdown there?
https://www.3mm-crisisstrike.com/
FBI is hot on his heels. Though he wears full body suit from head to toes, should FBI’s forensics have confirmed his identity by now? But when it comes down to the authorities on the scene, they know better.
https://www.3mm-crisisstrike.com/3mmcomic/no-good-deed-page-fifteen/
Ah, hey! May I offer you an interesting plot point? Some local authorities could cover for Marble Maiden and others like her, and be quite uncooperative with the Arc and other agencies to track her down.
That raises an interesting question – how much flexibility is there in ARC’s approach to supers? Can they officially look the other way on low-level vigiliante activities? If local law enforcement has a quiet understanding with a super (and that super’s activities don’t cause legal problems due to due process, etc) does ARC have the option to just give their official blessing to the arrangement, or do they have to have an independent record of the super’s identity just in case?
Of course, ARC-Light’s activities also raise the question of what happens when the database falls into the wrong hands.
That would be a simple case of locally funded short term training and a certification held with local pd as an auxiliary patrol officer. Or just deputize them.
I think it was mentioned in the comments during the press conference that if a Cop turned out to be a Super they could continue in that capacity after say a short period training in power use with ARC. (Much like many occupations have you take certification classes to continue working in the field)
Yeah, a lot of comics to chose from. I suppose I could have used spots on either side of Spinny for those.
As to the ask Ninja guy, he still exists, he was picked up by Channel awesome so go check their website out channelawesome.com/ . Not sure what video media he use but I know a lot of the posters try to avoid Youtube due to all the issue it gives them. With blip tv closing down there been a lot of side hosting popping up.
Someone wearing a level 5 hazmat suit would make for a very intimidating super.
I think Vader almost qualifies. He has his own air system.
But how good is his waste recycling? o_O
Doubtless better than Spider Man’s.
It’s basically a complete life-support system so I assume it has provisions for storage/disposal of such things.
There was one super (a villain) in the Champions setting that had been turned into pure energy, so his costume was a hazmat suit. It was also technically his body; without it he would just be shapeless energy and he would literally leak to death if the suit was ever punctured (needless to say, the suit was made of much tougher material than usual, and he was a bit of a coward, especially when projectile weapons were being used. And, of course, he was mute.) IIRC, the character’s name was Radium.
That must have played havoc with his sex life.
He wouldn’t have been the only one. There was also Feur (or in later editions of the game, Feurmacher), another villain who had a fire aura that he couldn’t turn off. Ever. When he wasn’t on a mission with the rest of the Eurostar team of villains, he spent his time in a fireproof room.
Being pure energy did give Radium a few advantages… he didn’t need to eat, drink, excrete, breathe, or sleep, was immune to all poisons, toxins, and diseases, and he didn’t age. Sure, he had no sex life, but he had no sex organs either. Probably a good thing, or his “blue balls” would be due to Chernikov Radiation. Feur, on the other hand… well, I can imagine that having a constant fire aura would play havoc with his entire life, not just his sex life.
No, I disagree with our esteemed author- that is definitely Carmen San Diego! It looks an awful lot like Carmen, and Carmen had to be a super if she was always running around stealing whole landmarks!
In the Giant Girl Universe she is compared to Carmen San Diego a lot.
It’s the hat.
It really was the hat. Darned spiffy big red hat…
The hairstyle probably didn’t hurt the comparison. ;)
Funny: We open with a daytime bank robbery and it’s the debut of super heroines, Tall and not.
Now Marble Maiden Shows up posing at ANOTHER daytime bank robbery? I’m thinking she’s the sort to arrange her own crimes.
how would that work. spinny is a registered hero in her comic? wouldn’t that cease and dissist letter kinda be dismissed? or is this before she became a registered hero it was a small window to aim for. (before sahira made finished making her costume out of her silk.
She got a ‘Cease and Desist’ letter from Marvel already
That was because her first costume (Made out of an altered Venom halloween costume) Looks too much like one of the Spider-Women.
for some reason i was thinking ninja brian…but hes more of an anti hero
also the reason why spidey wasn’t outed by the police is mainly cause he’s fast. the only time he bleeds is when he fights super villians. and he had a press pass to all of the fights in question. so if they found his blood or anything he could say he helped spider-man up after a fall or something if his face is really fucked up he’d say that a brick fell on him from the fight or something. the police have tried to get a match on him several times. but going against all he leaves are webbing that dissovle in an hour. thats it. the suit he washes frequently. full body suites take most of those skin cells and such and keep them under wraps. there best bet would be to get a villian spider-man has to use his fist for to get what they need but again thanks to spider sense he rarely gets hit well hard enough to draw blood. that time with morlun maybe or the vampires would also do but he doesn’t really leave much to find him on.
Also that gait analysis on spider-man wouldn’t work. When he’s in costume he tends to strut/ dance around unless he’s sprinting, and sprinting tends to eliminate gait differences. Since he has a completely different personality (retrained/ introverted/ shy vs. unrestrained/ extroverted/ bold) when he’s in costume than when he’s in street clothes, he moves and talks completely differently. Any film comparison of Peter Parker against Spider-man would show two different people. This is also true of Bruce Wayne/ Batman, and to an extent Clark Kent/ Superman, when they are in their secret identity they consciously change how they act to hide who they are, and that act changes speech, walk. and mannerisms.
Just remember, Clark Kent is the secret identity, not Superman
I have never bought that line of reasoning.
He was raised from infancy to be Clark Kent. His adoptive parents named him Clark Kent. In quite a few universes he doesn’t know how his birth name until he is an adult.
I don’t care how Bill rationalized it. He is Clark Kent. Superman is the costume.
That’s how he’s portrayed after the Silver Age generally, but in the Silver Age he was Superman as who he was just like Batman is who Bruce Wayne is. It wasn’t until either Lois and Clark or the first rebooted version of Superman after the original Crisis where Clark declares that he’s Clark Kent and that Superman is just his job. If you look back at the Silver Age stuff though you’ll see someone who, while he liked his Clark Kent identity had no problems abandoning it at times as he more cared about being able to use it as downtime from being Superman rather than who he was (unsurprising that given the comics had him active as far back as Superbaby before upgrading to Superboy and then Superman).
It actually ISNT that hard to keep a secret identity. TV shows and movies have greatly exaggerated law enforcement’s forensic abilities. Usually to a ludicrous degree and it’s to prevalent in modern society’s thinking that we don’t even realize how wrong we are about it. Aside from DNA evidence, there really isnt THAT much ability to locate real identities – even fingerprints are actually just guesswork.
And with DNA… you need a sample in the system to MATCH the blood left at the scene up to. I somehow doubt Batman had an arrest record (or had a job with licensing that required blood samples to be put in a DNA database).
Just saying :)
True, but you might be surprised how they can get a match to your DNA. The Feds have mine, not because I have done anything particularly illegal or immoral that might give them mine. My little brother I’ve never met however. He’s in the pen right now serving time for drugs.
And since they have his, they certainly could match it to mine. It would never be 100% but it would put them on my trail if I did anything heinous. Think of it like a path. Even if you don’t get the landmarks right then and there, just finding the right path can take you to them.
Most of the time, the government only gets your DNA when they gather it AFTER you’re under suspicion and they get a court order in order to take a DNA sample to match with DNA from a crime scene. There are some jobs that require it though. How did the government get your DNA samples?
Like I said, through my little brother. We have the same father. It gives them a trail to get to me. Let’s put forth a crime scene, whatever it is, doesn’t matter. I get cut, they get my blood.
They get the DNA results and there’s no 100% match on the database. But there is a partial in Oklahoma. So they go interview him. He gives them an airtight alibi. They look into his family and ooh, there’s a lead, he has a brother that lives in the area where the crime happened. They come to me. Whether I give them my DNA willingly or they have to get a warrant (And it would come down to warrant. I may be fine with the police but I believe I have no reason to just be helpful if I’m a suspect.) they get my DNA and there’s the match.
Okay, in your set of circumstances, I agree that DNA would make it difficult to keep a secret identity – assuming that they had one of your relative’s DNA on file like your little brother.
Actually, fingerprints vary in quality – a full set of clear prints would allow just about anyone to say whether the prints match with reference prints or not. Where fingerprint evidence gets dodgy is when you have a blurred partial print, which is only useful for thinning out possibilities.
Actually fingerprints are not a reliable way of identification at a crime scene. :) Adam Ruins Everything did a good explanation on it. Fingerprint evidence has ALWAYS been dodgy :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM1QgwaKv4s
If Marble Maiden is Marble all the time, then finding her should be easy. Unless she never has to eat, or sleep, or bath, or drive a car, or go shopping; unless she doesn’t have neighbors, or former classmates, or former employers, or, well, you get the idea.
If she can switch back and forth, then her biological form should leave DNA traces. Which, can be obtained by first, finding out what her behavior pattern is.If she robs banks, and sticks to a specific geographic location. Then install “Sleepy Time” gas in each Bank in that area that can be set off by Bank employees.
Once Marble Maiden if unconscious, she can be arrested. If she doesn’t go unconcious, then, at the very least, she will probably revert back to her Biological form and leave DNA traces.
Also, Face recognition software can be used. Take an image of her face, digitize it, then run a comparison to a National Database of Images from Driver’s Licenses and other image sources. Basic facial Bone Structure shouldn’t change just because her body turns to stone.
Also, digital images from Selfies leave trails as well. Forensic Data Analysis should be able to trace the data from the phone she is using to take her Selfies.
She was stopping robberies, not committing them. If she doesn’t breathe the gas would affect her how?
If she turns into a marble statue why _would_ she have the same features? She could shrink due to mass staying the same, grow because she is hollow, or anything else from man to child starting form if the marbleness is due to magic. Just saying.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought she was committing the crimes.
If Mable Maiden has any brains then she transforms outside of the crime scene. Leaving all human DNA that can be obtained among countless others. As if you would even have any idea which one is even hers. She’s a vigilante so she doesn’t rob banks she stops the ones robbing them. And there be no way the banks would even let you install knockout gas in there buildings. That is if you even know which banks among the thousands out there. Facial recognition wouldn’t work as it isn’t infallibly ether. A mask can get past it and her human features being turned to stone and changed would make using it impossible too. Her habit of selfing is a problem but trillions do that too.
If it was a Super with a power-set like hers that was actually doing the Bank Robberies, then, well, all I was suggesting is that there may be many ways of uncovering her identity.
I tend to agree that, in the real world, few Supers Could keep their identity secret for long, good guys or bad.
Sydney, event though she didn’t actual use her powers, was still found out eventually.
sleepy-time gas would never be used in a public building like that because a dose/ concentration that would knock-out a 28 yr old bodybuilder would kill a 98 yr old asthmatic. A dose that’s safe for the old/ very young/ infirm would only make the strong/ healthy drowsy.
Sleepy-time gas HAS been used in a public building.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
And lots of people died.
Agreed. I didn’t mean to dispute that part. I just wanted to point out that this has been tried by someone who apparently doesn’t read the posts here.
National Driver’s License photo database, with facial recognition?
I don’t think that’s real.
https://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/license.asp
https://www.dallasnews.com/investigations/watchdog/20150516-does-texas-dps-share-your-drivers-license-pic-with-the-fbi.ece
Facial recognition software is also incredibly flawed, actually :)
And faecal recognition software is a load of s**t.
Total agreement with you there :) Hollywood magic.
And the Ask a Ninja dude is just sitting there confused. “I don’t fight crime, I just answer questions!”
But Mr. Ninja, you provide knowledge. And Knowing is Half the Battle!
(cue cheesy PSA music)
So he’s an arms dealer. Always good to know. And know I’m imagining a picture of him on an ICBM with the word “Knowledge” on the head.
I assume in this universe he actually has ninja powers.
Woot, Spinnerette!
First I want to see who serves Giant Girl the C&D notice… better be Maxima. Roni is in a power class most of the team can’t match. (Just be glad Big V didn’t get her with the violence aura)
There are a few supers from various media that shouldn’t have too much trouble with DNA:
1) Iron Man / The Great and Powerful Turtle <= Contained Environment
2) Colossus / Grey Gargoyle <= Non Organic
3) Human Torch / Dr. Manhattan / Ghost Rider <=Energy Form
4) Martian Man-hunter / Superman <= Alien
5) Mystique <= DNA adaptability
6) Flash <= Be the one to collect the forensic evidence :)
Etc.
Yeah I know some might be in multiple categories.
Re: some of your examples:
It’s entirely possible and even probable that folks like Grey and Colossus leave traces, just not ones that conform well to human DNA. If you start finding metal dandruff flakes on every crime scene, it’s not hard to prove a pattern.
Same goes for the alien characters, though connecting the foreign traces to the character in question could get interesting.
Forensic science is not DNA alone.
However metal dandruff only tells you that he was there in metal form, not what his non-metal I.D. is which was the point of the comment.
Each of these examples show how hard it is to get the SECRET identity from a scene, not evidence of the presence of the SUPER identity.
I rember there once was a book where the problem was that superhero DNA degrades at an extraordinarly rapid rate outside the body to the point that blood samples lasted only minutes without stabilizers drawn from the same super, so that was how that setting got around it (and cloning etc) superhero dna was unstable without superhero hormones to regulate them.
The trick with spiderman though is most of the time he fights while hanging on the side of a building kinda hard to collect his dna without spelunking gear
Plus innthe future he is head of manhatten csi so he can make sure any spider girl dna comes back as inconclusive or currupted
You have been watching too much CSI.
Let’s say crime scene is a square 10m x 10m big. The particles with DNA you are describing will rarely be bigger than 1 mm^2. In that case, you would have a HUNDRED MILLION samples to analyze. So if it costs 50$ to get one DNA analyzis – you are looking at 5 billion $/single case – and you are also going to get tens of thousands of other, completely unrelated DNA that you would have to somehow filter (good luck not filtering out your guy).
A lot of supers are mutants, so it would not be strange if they have chimeric DNA (that is, one part of body has a different DNA from another).
Some supers are like Maxima or Achiless, completely invulnurable (so they might not be shedding any cells anytime soon), and some are like Sydney, protected with a forcefield.