Grrl Power #363 – Where are they now?
Opal could try opening up a very small portal to slowly equalize the pressure or communicate with a cohort, but of course her cell is closely monitored, and the time it would take for her to decompress is multiples of hours, and they’re not going to let on how many atmospheres she’s experiencing at the moment.
Pressurizing a cell effectively negates several problem powers. Teleportation and portals, as well as phasing. It probably introduces a bunch of other complications, but in a world without alien or magic “Power-B-Gone” tech, or some peculiar substance like vibranium that phasers can’t penetrate (not Star Trek phasers… you know what I mean) you have to start getting creative. Of course there’s the induced coma, but as far as I’m aware there are significant risks to keeping someone in a state like that for an extended period of time. To the best of my knowledge, people can live in a high pressure environment indefinitely, it’s the decompression that’s the dangerous bit. Beyond that I’m not sure how else to incarcerate someone to whom physical barriers are meaningless. Maybe a poison that requires regular antidotes? A shock collar that activates as soon as their powers do is super risky because it would have to incapacitate them before their powers carried them beyond the effectiveness of the collar, and that assumes you can create tech that can determine when a power has been activated and doesn’t knock them on their ass every time they sneeze.
People don’t get to chose their names, and most parents don’t name their children by factoring in the possibility that they will one day become a crime lord, supervillain, or vampire lord, and will therefore need a threatening sounding name. That said there’s probably not a lot of mob bosses naming their first sons Mortimer.
I like the name Kevin for Vehemence because as names go, it’s humorously non-threatening. Apologies to any readers named Kevin who are looking to dominate the MMA world or become despotic dictators or anything. The most intimidating Kevin I can think of right off the bat is Kevin Spacey just because he can play some pretty intense roles, but really if you say Kevin to me the first place I go is Kevin Smith. After that there’s Bacon, Costner, Hart… uh, Nealon, Klein, Pollak… beyond that I’d have to start googling. None of whom really strike fear into anyone’s heart. Most major supervillains tend to have cooler or threatening sounding names; Victor (von Doom) Sebastian (Shaw)… also Sebastian the Crab so maybe that one’s a wash, Lex (short for Alexander Luthor). I try to not play that game when I can, or play against the trope like in this case. Deus is the obvious example of me breaking my own rule there.
This only applies to humans who become supervillains and not guys like Brainiac, Darkseid, Ultron, what have you. When it comes down to it, Brainiac and Ultron were given names by their creators probably with the intention of making them sound cool. Darkseid, well, we pretty much have to take his word that that’s his real name. I mean he might have been born Kevin McGeoghegan, but anyone who questions his current moniker get the Omega Beam express.
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That’s….that’s pretty scary in terms of how effective it would be…
Be glad Opal isn’t watching The Shawshank Redemption or Cool Hand Luke-unless those films would encourage her somehow???
The World War Two set star-fest “The Great Escape” would also be proscribed viewing. The Fugitive, either the Harrison Ford movie or the TV series that inspired it, might also be a bad idea.
I’d recommend the classic series, “The Prisoner.”
“Prisoner: Cell Block H” would have been a vastly superior choice instead of that Orange Black rubbish :P
I’d go with “A Clockwork Orange”, myself.
I would prefer a Terry’s Chocolate Orange, personally.
I second that.
I like the raspberry ones….XD
Ug, no thanks. To me they taste like the milk has gone off.
The people that were arrested last night would not be on probation until after they are convicted of a crime. One could be considered released on your own recognizance if they have been charged, but have been released without supervision until a future court date, or just out-right released if they are not being charged with anything. If somebody is involved in any future criminal activity, then the option to charge him/her with their part in last night’s riot, along with the new crime, is still on the table, if the statute of limitations has not expired.
The exception already mentioned, being “Were they at full mental capacity or was Vehemence soley responsible for what they did”
They would, however, be under surveillance.
My takes on it is that, these Supers who were let go now have a record with ARC. They are told that, if they are caught using their powers to commit a crime, the first strike will be held against them and make their sentencing even worse.
Not to mention that the use of powers might leave telltale signs, like fingerprints.And ARC has all of their data/fingerprints.
Does ARC have a CSI/NCIS like forensic Lab? If not, it should.
Somewhat better than that. They have someone who looks suspiciously like Jonathan Creek! Oh and all the lab stuff, even though he does not need that. But the rest of Arc-Light are bound to.
I don’t think she meant “Probation” as in the legal term, but Probation as in “Watch your ass, we certainly are.”
That’s also what that “essentially” in there implies.
Anyone here ever read anything from SCP? The containment protocols are pretty creative. I’d highly recommend checking them out.
Ahh, SCP.
Almost as dangerous a time-sink as TV Tropes…
Hmph! If I ever find out who gave them the idea to keep me in a room with 12 IR cameras being watched by 12 different people at all times. I’m gonna *Gas floods the room* Love them so HARD! *Passes out*
Don’t sign up for Big Brother then. And you probably would not be happy working in adult online entertainment either.
Don’t be so hard on Adamas’ opinion there…He’s obviously referring to the situation where he’s forced into it. Big Brother & adult entertainment (if it’s legal) involves mutual consent; it’s a whole different animal than what you’re talking about.
;)
What… is that site? Just an exercise on how to imprison weird monsters?
I googled SCP and came up with this, so I assume this is what you’re talking about: https://www.scp-wiki.net/
That’s it. It’s something between a thought-experiment, an interactive role-play, and those scary stories you tell around campfires.
Very Much so. It’s also the inspiration for a video game “SCP Containment Breach”
Containment Breach is an excellent game, wherein you have to put this stuff into practice as best as possible.
Basically, it’s a warehouse (& research lab) for urban legends & horror stories. If you’ve seen the movie The Cabin in the Woods, it’s sotra like that, but not set up to actively USE it for a specific purpose.
Bring a stick & a bag of marshmellows…
Me: Present~! :D
Would you be willing to have people refer to you as being a bag?
Just joking here…I figured this would be a good opportunity to engage in a “celebrity roast,” as it were…
Heh…Roasting Marshmallows…
:P
*licks lips eagerly*
I highly recommend the Keter-class entries on the site (you can search for those using the tags on the site.) Those are the entries describing the really dangerous objects, and thus have the most creative containment procedures. Good entries to look at are SCP-682, SCP-017, and SCP-106.
SCP-5308-J for some balance. Mind the -J, entries ending such are intended as jokes.
I can actually think of a great way to make them unable to use their powers …. you have a few magic users.
Why not just have Dabbler cast a spell on a item like an Iounn stone or something you can’t remove at all without the caster deactivating it.
The spell being that it negates the person’s unique powers and prevents them from even activating them.
Or just get Dabbler working on a Power Dampener collar thing.
Two problems with that. One is that power dampening does not work in that universe. The author does not want it. The other being that Dabbler’s toys are for her use, not others.
Dabbler doesn’t share her tech, and while she could potentially disable someone magically depening on their powers, she’s not willing to hang out being a prison guard. There are magic users other than Dabbler around though so it’s not an unworkable idea.
Maybe once they learn how certain powers actually work biologically, they’d be able to come up with something to ‘dampen’ them.
Like in Stargate SG-1, they came up with a way to dampen the Priors (whatever they were called) who had psychic powers.
https://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Prior_disruptor
Or in Superman vs the Elites, Superman figured out how to turn off Manchester Black’s psychic and telekinetic powers after his sister gave him catscans of Manchester’s brain so he knew what part to basically lobotomize.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124288/2374462-2122334-manchester_black_superman_lobotomy_action_comics_775.jpg
It seems that “SCP” has found an “instance” who has an almost-“Harem” type of shared mind:
[https://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1454]
There used to be a humor-based web-comic: “The Repository of Dangerous Things”, by Amanda Hardy:
[https://www.dangerousthings.net]
I read it for 121 pages, then it stopped updating…
…& now I’ve lost track of it – that URL above is no longer working, & I can’t find anything (more recent) that functions.
I can’t dispel the disquieting notion that this “Area 51”-type facility may have been “subsumed” into “SCP”…?!?
*Raises hand* I’m one of the staff over on the SCP Wiki, actually. It’s more of a writing site aimed for a mix of fantasy and horror in the modern world, where things that should not be are Contained. Of course, it’s part of a larger narrative with other factions and gets pretty interesting. But yeah, big time sink.
Heh, I ought to point some other staffers this way, just to see their thoughts.
The more the merrier! :-)
And interesting to know about your connection, and the site itself too.
To me, the time sink applies if I try to use the cross-referencing links from one “project” to another…I always forget where I started.
:-/
In my experience, it’s easier to retrace your steps if each new link is opened in a new tab.
Holla back at ya, Mister Flames!
Quick question: do you have any SCP’s on the site that you’ve written yourself? I’d love to read them ;-)
It’s pretty interesting, and alternately creepy and humorous. Honestly it reads like the outline of a Twighlight-esque series like Warehouse 13 or the Friday the 13th series. I mean I bet it could be made into a show with minimal development with what’s already been there.
Hmmm Now that you mention it, yeah, Warehouse 13 could’ve served as inspiration for SCP.
Rather SCP served as an inspiration for Warehouse 13. It’s also probably the inspiration for The Weeping Angels.
Yep. SCP predates Warehouse 13.
In the spirit of Halloween check out https://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-087 one of the scariest ones on there (that I’ve read yet). Though the one with the giant babies is a close second.
That is one of my favorite SCP’s! Scared the Willies outta me when I first read it.
Wjat about giant babies? That sounds kinda funny.
Reading the Exploration Transcripts linked to it wasn’t too comforting either…
The what? Do you have a link you can share with me?
Well, technically, Star Trek phasers too.
In Star Trek, they’re called Phasors (with an “O”). Geez, don’t you know anything? :P
Actually…. disagrees with your assertion, T-Ray.
Eh, got the link right, just didn’t quite do the coding to put “Memory Alpha” as the link.
Yeah? Well… What do they know?
I’m probably getting my facts mixed up with some quasi-licensed game from that time period that wanted to avoid copyright infingement.
Crow tastes better with white sauce.
Okay, I’m really curious about Death Toll. His nemesis power should have countered Vehemence’s mind control, so that means he was there of his own free will.
So… unless his lawyer was able to argue that DT was simply acting in self defense, he’s probably locked up in one of these cells.
My question is, could his powers counter a containment cell, and if so, what are they doing to make sure he doesn’t escape?
His powers seem to only activate when someone actively takes action against him, hence his anoyance when they stopped attacking him back in the fight and he couldnt do anything to them. If that’s the case then just some solid walls should be enough to hold him, as there will be no active attack on him to counter, making him powerless.
1} Death Toll’s power would only counter Vehemence’s if it recognised it was an attack, since it subtly influences your emotions, it might not register as an attack.
2) Since Death Toll never actively attacked anybody he might not have been under Vehemence’s control.
3) Since he never actively attacked anybody, he never actually broke any laws. He just acted in self-defence (Maxima pointed this out during the fight). The worst he could be charged with is causing a public nuisance, or (if he helped plan anything) conspiracy to [whatever they decide happened].
So while he might have been in full control and therefore solely guilty for any actions he performed, he probably can’t be charged with anything which needs a lawyer.
Also of note is that he wasn’t woken by the violence aura; it’s possible that Kevin (never going to be able to take him seriously again) did want to wake him but didn’t know what his real power was, and it countered the aura.
I have to take issue with point number 3, at least with regards to the United States law. Death Toll was part of a larger group that caused a large amount of property damage, as well as openly assaulting a federal law enforcement agency. At minimum, he would be charged with conspiracy or as an accomplice, and that’s if he hadn’t raised a hand and had simply surrendered and allowed himself to be handcuffed.
Considering he refused to surrender and then assaulted (with electricity) and then knocked out Anvil, he’s facing minimum resisting arrest and assaulting a federal officer. He then goes on to assault Jiggawatt, Stalwart, Hiro and Dabbler. Remember, in the United States, self defense is not an acceptable defense for attacking a federal officer in pursuit of their duty. So five counts of assaulting a federal officer and one count of resisting arrest. That’s minimum.
If ArcSWAT wants to really lay the legal pain, then every super there who was not a part of ArcSWAT could be charged with domestic terrorism. Considering the level of property damage and the fact that the supers were attacking a newly formed federal law enforcement agency with the intent to destroy it, they would have no problems making that stick. At that point, even not considering the last paragraph, he would be imprisonable simply for being part of the enemy super team.
Of course, all of this is predicated on his being found not to be mind controlled, but to say he never broke any laws or could only be charged with causing a public nuisance is completely false. When a battle between law enforcement and criminals breaks out, you can’t stand around with a weapon, refuse to surrender, and then “defend yourself” and think you’ll get away with a self defense plea. Self defense doesn’t work that way in the United States.
*stamps the “Yorp Seal of Approval” stamp, on the proceeding comment, places paw in ink-pad, and signs the seal, with the paw-print*
Given the fact that we’ll break some three criminal laws a day since the criminal legal structure is so vast (there is a person sitting in prison today because he got lost in a snowstorm and drive his vehicle into a protected wildlife preserve for example), Death Toll can be tossed in the clink for practically anything if the prosecutor feels vindictive enough that day.
Extremely well spoken. Almost everybody can claim mind-control, which the law does not cover and which Arianna has made clear will not be prosecuted, though claims of mind-control will be investigated.
Anybody who cannot make that claim (or fails to make the claim stick) gets a minimum of resisting arrest, and all but Opal have AT LEAST one count of assaulting a federal officer.
There’s also domestic terrorism and conspiracy to commit [crime] on the table, ranging from conspiracy to murder a federal officer (multiple counts) to conspiracy to cause a public disturbance. Actually, causing a public disturbance is on the table, too, and probably in the “minimum” pile with resisting arrest and assaulting a federal officer. Still, anything they did or MIGHT have done can be put in the conspiracy bracket, giving the prosecutor a nice range of potential punishments.
4 people, however, cannot even try to make the mind-control claim.
1. Vehemence, obviously.
2 & 3. Opal and Vekter, since they were active planners and coordinated things to the point that Vehemence attacked them to prevent an organized retreat. They were clearly acting of their own initiative as organizers; even if Vehemence used his aura to push them into joining, they can be clearly shown to have been acting under their own free will at a crucial point in the battle.
4. Death Toll. If his lawyer tries to argue that he was there because of Vehemence, Sydney will testify that his power worked against V’s aura (even though Harem suggested it was selective), preventing him from waking up, and therefore would have protected him from joining. The savvy counter is to claim that Death Toll was attacked while V pushed him into joining, and his power only defended from the other attack. The irrefutable evidence that he was not under V’s influence WHILE THE CRIME WAS IN PROGRESS is the fact that he didn’t attack, only defend…which, since he was “defending” himself from arrest by federal agents, is two crimes.
I hope to DaveB that Sydney gets put on the witness stand during the prosecution phase. Along with Harem and Max, she was one of the few people who stayed out of the fight (mostly) and watched. Most of the team can only testify to assault by the people who assaulted them, and will be subjected to pesky line-ups to try to show that they can’t be certain they were assaulted by the person in question. ARC-Light was watching, but it’s unclear how good their view was once the glasses broke. Sydney’s little chat with Vehemence before he went agro could be a crucial piece of evidence, though his speech before attacking likely makes it moot. Still, I want to see Sydney testifying in court. It’s one of those bits of cop shows (which this is, without the detective bit) that doesn’t get equal treatment. Writers act like once the arrest is made, the judicial system is finished.
Mostly, though, I just want to see Sydney being a hilarious ADHD black-belt cusser in court.
Again, I’d like to applaud your sharp analysis of the exact nature of the crimes of anyone on red team found to be at the restaurant of their own free will–or acting under their own free will at any time during the attack, for that matter.
I actually have a friend who was arrested for resisting arrest, with no other charge brought against him. The cop just stopped him and searched him, my friend argued with the cop and asked why he was being searched, and the cop then arrested him for resisting arrest. True story, though my friend probably downplayed the level of the argument. I know someone else who was arrested for assault because he defended himself (no other witnesses, and where I live, ‘she said’ wins in ‘he said, she said’), then yelled at the cop and got assaulting a police officer tagged on for yelling so hard he spit on the cop. Yes, spitting on a cop is assaulting a police officer. American laws are, as you noted with the lost driver, overly comprehensive, to be polite.
“Mostly, though, I just want to see Sydney being a hilarious ADHD black-belt cusser in court.”
I wholeheartedly concur to that…But the reality of it is that a testimony like that is likely to get thrown out of court, even during just the Hearing stage. Like it or not, Sydney can still get by with being a bit quirky, but she’s going to have to try really hard to keep it “boring.”
5. Shadow Boxer. He was inside Halo’s shield, when he tried to murder her. Halo’s shield blocks the aggro aura, so he had immunity, but still proceeded with the act. Meaning he was acting fully under his own volition.
Further, he managed to badly bruise Sydney’s pretty face! Fortunately, as they probably were in Texas* at the time, he is guilty of ‘striking a lady and causing actual bodily harm’, something which I am sure holds the immediate death penalty there, with no right of appeal. So hopefully he has already been strung up by the neck, at the nearest tree outside the courthouse!
0. The Evil Squirrel Overlord. He has managed to evade detection and capture, but is, in fact, the diabolical mastermind behind the entire plot, having cunningly manipulated Vehemence, as a pawn. Or maybe one of those horsey things. Ooh, or perhaps a castle? He did look like a brick s**thouse, at one point.
* Our best default assumption for where the city is, even though it is currently kept as a generic city, rather than a specific one.
Actually Vektor and Opal CAN both claim the ‘Vehemence made me do it’ defense. Especially Vektor, since in addition to everything else, we have Vehemence’s own statements saying he tricked Vektor into thinking it was his own idea.’
And Death Toll doesnt need the Vehemence excuse (although he can still arguably use it). He can just say anything he did was in self-defense. Which it was. Sydney even pointed that out. She’s right. He never did anything where he wasnt attacked first.
Oh… also… defending yourself from arrest implies that you did something for which you could be arrested. Death Toll didnt do anything for which to be arrested in the first place. If Anvil had not attacked him first (because he has a stupid name, which is not a crime), he could not and would not have attacked.
Sorry, but wrong. You can be arrested simply because an officer thinks you may be an imminent danger to people in the area – which Death Toll, with his cape and standing with and conversing with the bad guys easily could be. Whether or not they could get charges to stick is a different story, but they had plenty of cause for arrest. When an officer gives you a chance to come quietly and you say “make me”, they are authorized to use reasonable force to do so. If you then attack them, you are assaulting an officer in the course of their duty, as stated above.
Once again, if you are standing in the middle of a firefight between criminals and law enforcement, holding a weapon, you can’t refuse to surrender and then attack the officers when they use reasonable force to subdue you and say “It was self defense.” United States law does not allow that. His wearing the mask and cape in the middle of the super fight was reasonable cause for Archon to believe he had a superpower – ie, he was armed. His conversing with the supers who were attacking them was reasonable cause to believe that he was hostile and thus was given the choice to surrender quietly or be subdued. There is not a court in the United States that would accept a self defense plea in this situation. Ariana would laugh them out of court.
Please watch the first scene of Anvil and Death Toll. Anvil told Death Toll to surrender and be arrested. Death Toll said no. He did not make any aggressive moves against Anvil. Anvil responded by attacking him. That’s clear self-defense – sorry, but RIGHT. And if you think they can, you’re opening the case for massive police abuse (which sadly does happen, but that doesnt make it legal to do).
Can’t believe I’m talking about police abuse when normally I’m a rather avid defender of police against charges of abuse, but in this case it’s pretty clear-cut in Death Toll’s favor. Sorry, it is. He never once initiated attack. He simply did not want to be arrested, which, considering he had done nothing to be arrested over, and had not participated whatsoever at the point where Anvil tried to attack him…. he definitely can call self defense. It’s nothing whatoever like what you’r saying, because he was not holding a weapon at all. And wearing a cape is not grounds for arrest. Bad fashion is legal in the USA.
Based on your description, I was going to side with you. But looking at the scene, I think I can make a fair case for the prosecution.
The following argument ignores mens rea, and works on the assumption that the trial has already examined Death Toll’s power and determined that it provided him with immunity to Vehemence’s aggro aura. And thus is in full control of his own actions.
I would contest that Death Toll has knowingly set a trap designed to main or even kill. At that time he had plenty of time to see that police were under deadly attack. He is seeing that the police are outnumbered and having to use extreme force, in response.
He would easily be able to safely disengage from the scene and dis-associate himself with the hostile combatants. He chooses not to do so.
A police woman then offers him the opportunity to show that he is not a part of the hostile force and surrender peaceably. He refuses to do so.
In doing so, he is resisting arrest.
Further he is doing so at a time when he is endangering the life of the police officer, by distracting her from armed and present hostile forces. And is requiring her to deal with him as a hostile combatant, rather than a peaceful civilian.
These are not responsible actions, that an innocent member of the public would reasonably do under the circumstances. If I were sitting on the jury, I would not be saying “sure, that is exactly what I would do under the circumstances”.
So, even with this just to consider, I would return the verdict of him being guilty of resisting arrest. Further I would hold him to be recklessly endangering the life of a police officer. And I would consider that the sum of his actions, including his choosing to remain associated with the hostile forces, to implicate him heavily as being a co-conspirator. Easily justifying the decision to arrest him.
But now we come to his most damning action:
This is both a declaration that he intends to use force, to resist arrest, and a death threat, to the police officer!
Plus please bear in mind that he has openly survived on a super powered battlefield, and has been seen to withstand powerful attacks. So he is clearly super-human and would require a level of force to be used proportionate to his super-human capabilities and his threat of deadly force.
He is guilty, on multiple charges. His arrest is wholly justifiable. The use of force in the process was mandated by both his actions and those of his co-combatants. The lives of the police were being endangered and they had the right to protect themselves from both the clear and present dangers and the death threat he made.
The problem is they have to be identified as law enforcement. Indiana has a you can shoot cops in your house law. https://thefreethoughtproject.com/state-passes-law-legalize-self-defense-police/
Strangely enough, they identified themselves as a Federally-Authorized Law Enforcement Agency during the press conference, just yesterday…
Death Toll was already down for the count BEFORE Vehemence activated his Aggro Aura. He doesn’t have that excuse for his defense…
;)
No, he still might. Vehemence was definitely using some low-level version of the aura even while they were recruiting, based on the conversations had after he was put to sleep. He just amped it up majorly when he decided he needed it to fight Maxima.
Even the low-level aggro would not likely have worked, even during the “recruitment” stage…When Vehemence “amped it up,” DT stayed unconscious. If the high-level aura couldn’t wake him up (even as it woke up an unconscious Math & several sedated villains), then a low-level aggro wouldn’t have worked on DT at any time.
True, and it’s quite possible that they can show that the aura didn’t affect him.
But you can’t claim it didn’t affect him because he was down before Vehemence activated it – Vehemence activated it at low level before the fighters were even in place. So he can still try to use it for his defense. He just is unlikely to succeed. ;)
death toll might only be able to counter one thing/person at a time.
Correct… that’s how they finally took him down: by multiple attacks of different types all at the SAME time… he could only counter ONE of them, then the damage the other attacks did combined to knock him out…
Which means that DT’s defense was activated & sloughed off the aggro aura during the super-brawl, when he was unconscious. If the only way to beat DT is to overwhelm him with multiple attacks, then the use of a low-level aggro aura earlier would’ve had to have been in conjunction with other, multiple attacks to work on him.
Ok, I cracked up when I saw big V. Here I was thinking they would ship him off to some remote shaolin monastery or something to be guarded by a bunch of Zen monks :P
This is better, fairly sure if he wasn’t half-baked he would agree and probably have volunteered :D
https://davebarrack.deviantart.com/art/Zen-548362788
Any pools on how quickly DaveB forgets Opal’s lovely bruise? :D
And… that’s the last we see of her until after her bruise would have naturally healed :P
As big as the underwater rigging and welding industry is, I’d imagine they’d know how to keep Opals cell pressurized for extended periods of time. Deep water welders are kept under pressure for weeks at a time. They live and sleep in pressurized rooms while they’re not working.
One counter measure for her cell is to randomly, but slowly change the pressure up and down so that any help from the outside would have a hard time finding a suitable location for her to teleport out of. Her quickest means of escape would be a portal into a pressurized room controlled by her allies, but if the pressure in her cell is constantly changing, matching the pressure would be difficult, at best. It wouldn’t take much difference either between the two rooms. Just a matter of a few psi would create a huge problem given the size of portal she would need to make to quickly escape. And that’s only if she knew the exact location of the room she was aiming for. If that information can’t reach her due to controlled communication, then she wouldn’t know where to go.
Really, her only means of escape would be to have someone breaks into the containment facility, slowly bring the pressure down in her room to allow the doors to open. Just the pressure in her room should keep her door shut.
Or, simply, serve her time
Opening a very small portal might work – both as a test and a way to equalize the pressure. Assuming the other side is a airtight room, the pressure will equalize eventually without killing anyone.
Letting the pressure equalize like that won’t work, because the wardens will notice and just pump the room full of sleeping agents
Opens other portals near the outlets.
Cunning parry.
The repost to that being that the sleeping agent would be mixed in to her air intake. So, if she cut that off, would mean that she would gradually start to succumb to carbon dioxide poisoning. The cell is small enough that she would go unconscious, from that, well before the pressure had time to equalise.
The seemingly obvious counter to that is to open a portal to a clean air supply. But that is not feasible, as the air would flow out of her cell, rather than in. Unless Opal knew the location of somewhere with higher pressure air. But if she knew that, why bother with the equalising trick? She could just open a full-sized portal and escape immediately!
High enough pressure differential and even a small opening (nickle sized) will cause ear damage in seconds. Over 3 atmospheres and she would get the bends in seconds. By 3 atmospheres the safe decompression rate is over 24 hours (I believe, not sure of exact numbers), so they would DEFINITELY have time to notice/ fix the problem.
Your countermeasures are a good idea. Sadly Jules Morrison has already come up with an escape technique which could overcome that.
Jules, if we ever get incarcerated together, you can chair the escape committee!
Aren’t those habitats also filled with nitrous oxide? I’m imagining the voice in the wall having an odd, squeaky timbre.
Well, Netflix is friendly lol
Is Kevin on happy gas? :P
Also, I want a SWAT tshirt…
I think the implication is that they’re dosing him with pot smoke. His symptomatic hunger, amazed amusement at simple and colorful things, and placid temper all fall in line with the comedic tropes for marijuana users.
They should try to get Opal in the team as her ability would be a very valued asset.
A lot of them will probably get that offer.. and if Sydneys paycheck is any indication, a lot of them will accept.
Really, considering how much damage your ‘average’ super can do, paying them well and putting them to work is very smart move.
Absolutely. It’s what big corporations do with hackers, after all… they HIRE them as security consultants. Kevin Mitnick, for example… one of the most well-known hackers in the U.S., if not the world… has drawn a 6-figure salary as a consultant for Fortune 500 companies since 2000.
Opal was already known by ArcLight. So presumably already in the criminal world (along with Vekter)
So she probably won’t get such an offer. No way to trust them. Though the unkown guys without a record might
I she didn’t have any outstanding warrants then she might still get the offer. Being payed to be a getaway driver isn’t a major crime in itself ( it’s the accessory part that carries the penalties). Since she was probably doing it for the paycheck, and not because she’s a sociopath (or other anti-social disorder), she can probably be trusted as long as the pay exceeds the risk (unless, of course, the risk is WHY she did it)
Actually, not only is accessory to a crime almost as bad as the crime itself, getaway drivers _can_ be charged with accessory, and they can also be charged with conspiracy, which carries a pretty stiff penalty too (accessory if you’re part of the team, conspiracy if the team hired a professional, basically, but it’s really up to the D.A.). In fact, targeting professional getaway drivers was a major part of the FBI crackdown that has reduced bank robbery to nearly zero in the U.S.
Well, until ARC went public, Opal/Vektor et al could have simply been people Max approached for ARC that said no. Now that the registration program has been publicly announced, I expect it will be challenged on constitutional grounds.
What registration program? They specifically said that you do not have to register.
That doesn’t mean the government isn’t keeping track of some of them, of course.
There’s no “supers registration.” If you have powers, you are free to use them any way you see fit, as long as it’s legal. And as Maxima noted a while back, being a vigilante is NOT legal. Runaround playing Batman, and Archon will likely catch you and put you in jail. The only way to legally fight crime is to be part of law enforcement.
Being a vigilante is entirely legal, in theory. You, Joe Blow, can arrest and detain anybody at any time. The problems are entirely practical. Not only is the fellow you arrest or detain likely to resist, and possibly in a quite violent manner, but you do not have the laws granting you immunity to a host of things [such as false arrest], nor the free lawyers when you violate the rules. The result is that our typical comicbook vigilante would be in jail or bankruptcy court within a very short time. So unless he has close relations with the cops [Batman] or the law just can’t find him [secret identity] he won’t be in business for long.
But the law does not make being a vigilante itself illegal.
If you have no “Powers” and don’t wear a fancy outfit (just a ski mask, gloves, etc.) would you fall under ARCs jurisdiction if you are a vigilante (the Punisher minus the skul?l)
Actually, the law is tricky. Several places make vigilanteism (sp?) illegal, but citizen’s arrest is legal. There is actually a group of people in Seattle who wear costumes and body armor and patrol the city, using their phones to take videos of crimes before declaring citizen’s arrest on the perpetrator and calling the police. They have been shot, stabbed, punched, and otherwise assaulted (hence the body armor), but they are very careful never to initiate violence and have so far successfully used self-defense to protect themselves from the inevitable assault charges brought against them (they counter-charge, of course, adding assault [but not resisting arrest] to the initial crime). They are super-careful about following the laws regarding citizen’s arrest and self-defense, and while none of them have been killed, some have been seriously injured and others have quit because it’s too dangerous.
I’m not making this up. People in costumes are arresting people in Seattle. Legally.
Wiki/Google Phoenix Jones or Rain City Superhero Movement.
Yes, the leader of the group, as well as the group itself, has a Wikipedia page.
Oh, and there is a RATIONAL REASON that they wear costumes.
That is an amazing story. I’m glad such people exist
You are forgetting that Morph, Brook & Les were all criminals before getting caught and giving the option: join or serve time!
There is a slight distinction to be made, in that albeit breaking the law by being vigilantes, they were at least trying to help society. Whereas Opal was attempting to overthrow it, and kill cops in the process!
The press conference has made it clear that their exceptions to the rules will not be used as a precedent. From now on vigilantes will be treated as out and out criminals. But, from yesterday, supers do have the choice of applying to Archon instead. Whereas the trio in question may have felt that, because there was no official organisation which was capable of opposing super villains, they had no option but to help out.
They had mitigating circumstances. Which no longer exist. And certainly do not apply to Opal!
Unless, that is, she is found to have been totally under the influence of the aggro aura and not complicit in her own capacity. But if that were to happen, Opal would be deemed to be an innocent woman, and free to do as she wishes.
So the government has decided to incarcerate them without due process. And to be in such a jail cell would likely be considered cruel and unusual. “Oh hey, if you step outside you die a violently painful death.”
They are being held as part of the due process, while they check for possible criminal records
Opal is fine, as long as she doesn’t try and stage a jail-break (the only thing ‘cruel’ would be being forced to watch that crap)
They can be held for 48 hour without being charged while they check-out warrants and decide if they are responsible enough to charge. After 48 hours they must charge them with a crime, even one they don’t plan on actually prosecuting, in order to keep holding them. Since almost all of them can be charged with crimes such as destruction of private property, assault, accessory to […], etc (exception: Death Toll). They can all be held until arraignment, with charges being dropped if necessary.
Death Toll can be charged with resisting arrest, if nothing else.
And conspiracy to riot.
Not to mention that there are anti-terror laws that can be applied. I am not familiar with the US versions, but the UK ones allow seriously long detention, without the ability to challenge it, by any means (potentially weeks with judicial approval), and remove various other rights, such as when you are allowed access to a lawyer.
If you are using UK laws than sucker punching a WWII veteran and blinding him because he wasn’t moving fast enough with 2 canes wont get you jail time or deported. Nick Griffen served more time for trying to stop 1700 little girls from being raped by 3rd world “refugees” before the cops/social workers admitted to ignoring 1400.
I don’t think anything about the comic has invited, or justifies, your continual attacks on refugees. Please take your trolling and neo-Nazi ideology to some more appropriate forum.
Also holding Opal the way she is can lead to an unholy mess for Arc.
The second Opal demands a lawyer they will have to start decompression proceedings, or be able to prove they have a secure and totally unmonitored audio/video link.
Then of course there are the constitutional issues regarding the way in which she is being held.
It can be considered cruel and unusual because of the capacity for failure of the system and the worry that can cause.
Returning to the issue of communication with their lawyers, an argument can be made for the face to face meeting being the most secure. In 1 word Leon.
And yes he would be known as he was at the incident and would be required to file a report.
Which means as soon as the lawyer sees his report, and job description, all electronic communications become suspect.
And the majority of judges would be inclined to be receptive of any claim of possible violation of attorney client privilege.
Security services have the capability to place surveillance on any client lawyer conversation anyhow. Modern techniques would make it impossible for a lawyer to detect or counter it, with anything short of a counter-surveillance team, armed with a bunch of high-tech equipment.
Courts do not provide that. So there is no reason why they should give any extra consideration to the risks of communicating remotely. Provided reasonable precautions were taken, to minimise any extra risks. Such as having a direct link, rather than it being linked up to the internet.
A court is unlikely to pander to such groundless paranoia. Nothing has been demonstrated that could imply the state, or Archon, has any wish to interfere in client-lawyer confidentiality. To the contrary Maxima has stated (and clearly represents Archon’s public opinion on the matter) that they are highly sympathetic to the argument that the Aggro aura provides mitigating circumstances.
This is a highly enlightened attitude for a police force to take. Especially coming from somebody who was almost killed during the attack!
As such the courts would give them high consideration to be acting in a legal manner. And any attempt to cast aspersions on their motives would be met with suspicion, unless backed up with highly incriminating evidence. Rather than stone-throwing hearsay.
Plus do bear in mind that (if Hollywood depictions match reality), high security institutions already put the client behind an impenetrable screen, at a bank of such desks, and require that the lawyer speak via a phone. Which is materially no different to this situation.
Here in the sates lawyer/client confidentiality is a basic right I our justice system period.
Also any appearance of impropriety can get a case dismissed in a heat beat.
Also as ARC is now opening up whole new area in the criminal justice system it will behoove them to make sure everything is on the up and up, so as not to cause a major foul u to besmirch their reputation.
Ditto in the UK. Your point?
So far all you have offered is the presence of an IT expert at the scene of the crime. Yet you are trying to convince the judge that means he is intending to interfere with the due process at the prison, for reasons unknown. Which we have no evidence he has even been to! *
I wholeheartedly agree with your last.
* I will concede, without you needing to raise it, that having everything fall under the Archon banner can be argued as a conflict of interest. But at that point we need to differentiate between the fact that this is fun for the comic to do. Whereas, should this happen in reality, there would be a political lobby insisting the names be differentiated to ensure that there is not even the appearance of conflict of interest.
Such is political correctness bullcrap though, so I have little interest in it. So all that I would be concerned about is: Are the power structures differentiated? Are personnel, with a conflict of interest, allowed unrestricted access to the facility? Are there countermeasures in place, to ensure that attempts to pervert the course of justice are independently investigated. **
Further, until or unless shown otherwise, given the amount of care and thought that has gone into this setting, I am happy to assume that all of the above have been thought through and implemented appropriately. Enough that the judges could examine the arrangements and throw the application out, as being baseless.
Notably, in this instance, Leon, as a member of Arc-SWAT, should have no access to the Arc-Aegis facilities. Unlike the cops, who may need to interview the criminals, pursuant to other ongoing cases, he has no justifiable reason for being there. It is something that DaveB needs to avoid the temptation to do, if there is a computer issue. They should have their own staff.
Likewise Arc-Swat police should not be allowed to wander around the prison unescorted. A guard would need to be with them. Which is not to say that they cannot be called in to quell a riot. That is likely to happen. But they will only be allowed to enter at the request of the Arc-Aegis authorities. Unless all communications have been lost, and a higher authority deems that it is necessary.
Possibly his job description will permit General Faulk to do this. If not it will be the state governor, head of whatever arm of government handles prisons or the president who gets to make the call.
** I would like to propose that, in keeping with the naming theme, that the Archon internal investigations branch be named Arc-Angels. Unless that is already earmarked for something else.
Even if Arc-Aegis does happen to record anything during a lawyer/client interaction, there’s nothing to be done with it…Nothing heard or recorded can be admitted to court proceedings. Any such evidence is inadmissible if it violates Right to Privacy as the law has defined that Right..
Although true, that would still not make the surveillance acceptable or excusable. Police could learn things which they could use to incriminate the suspect, by other means. Prosecutors advised of defence tactics could alter their own. And so on.
My prior comments should not be read as taking client-lawyer confidence lightly. It is vital that it remains inviolate. And any breach, or attempt to breach it, should be treated harshly. If Leon did hack their communications, he should become one of Arc-Ageis’s inmates!
If it were to be shown that the means of communication was unsound (as in the example of it being sent over the internet, especially if unencrypted), then the complaint would be perfectly valid.
Not enough, mind you, to allow the suspect to walk free. The court would simply rule that a more secure method need be found. And if that involves the lawyer spending time going through decompression, in order to see the client, then so be it. But I do not see that a dedicated phone line would pose any credible threat, that exceeded the norms which any lawyer/client conversation might entail.
It’s part of due process to hold someone who has behaved dangerously pending their arraignment, and that pre-arraignment hold can be extended if psychological evaluation is needed. Usually, it’s to determine if the person in question is mentally competent to stand trial, but it can also be used to form an opinion on whether they had the capacity to form intent.
It’s perfectly normal to hold a prisoner in anticipation of court. And extreme measures are needed in extreme cases
It is entirely normal in the US to hold prisoners pending trial.
Usually there is a prompt hearing to set a bail amount, but bail is routinely denied if the prisoner is considered to be a flight risk (ie, likely to forfeit bail and just leave) or if the prisoner is intrinsically dangerous.
“Intrinsically Dangerous” takes in people whose martial-arts study goes over fifth-dan black belt (at least in one style of karate, don’t know about others) with the result that they are considered to be armed at all times (the whole “my fists are registered weapons” crap). I have absolutely no doubt that it would take in people with paranormal abilities demonstrably suited to property damage and violence.
RE: “my fists are registered weapons”: If anyone ever says this, they are full of crap. Nowhere in the US requires you to register as a weapon for knowing martial arts. We can, however, be held accountable for using overwhelming force instead of reasonable force in case of being attacked.
Source: Instructor ranks in three separate martial arts.
The crime here in Canada is called “Excessive Use of Force” and is part of the assault block of criminal offenses. It is used in cases where it was justifiable to use a certain level of force, such as defending yourself from an attack, but you went beyond what was needed to strictly defend yourself; you have to stop when the attacker is no longer a threat. When Sydney kicked her now-unconscious attacker, that could be considered Excessive Use of Force, which Anvil called her on.
First, IIRC from Maxima’s press briefing, ARC IS a law enforcement agency; therefore due process has been adhered to. Second, how exactly does warning someone not to try to escape because bad things will happen, but here’s some Netflicks while you’re hanging around comfortably waiting for us to get to you, constitute “cruel and unusual”? What do you think will happen if you try to break out of your own county lockup? Guess what- the sheriffs aren’t gonna be tossing cream pies at you.
The sheriff is only authorized to shoot to kill the escaping prisoner in extreme cases. The mere escape is not enough. He can usually dream up some excuse, so assuming the law won’t kill you is rash. But killing you is presumed to be a last resort, and not to be done just to prevent the escape of Joe Blow.
With Opal, it is being used as the first resort, which means her lawyer can at least challenge and possibly get some or all of the charges thrown out.
Also to be considered here is that Opal may try to teleport away immediately upon waking before she can hear the warning. There is also the danger she will not believe the warning and will try even if she understands the warning.
That makes this sort of cell quite dubious for a suspect who is at this point only facing “minor” charges.
Conspiracy to riot, accessory to assault, resisting arrest, probably actual assault (indirect, but using her powers), and I’m sure a good prosecutor could throw in a few dozen others.
She was one of the ringleaders. She brought everyone there, almost managed to get them all to escape, and was the one person Vehemence felt he needed to stop to make sure he could fight Maxima. I’m guessing she may even have priors on her record, given that she was already known to ARC.
This may be overkill, but she is an extreme flight risk, there’s very little in the way of non-lethal that would stop her from escaping, and she is one of the few that can be certified as willing to be in the fight without Vehemence’s aura. If I were the prosecuting attorney, I’d be willing to argue it’s a unique situation, and that the containment is reasonable in comparison to the risk. (Especially if the pressure is actually on the lower end of ‘explosive decompression’ – then it would only be a painful death if she escapes and doesn’t get immediate medical treatment. If she does get immediate treatment there would be a good chance it would only give her painful disabilities for the rest of her life.)
Actually, Opal is the only member of Red Team WITHOUT assault on the table, but she’s also one of the very few who can be proven to have been there of her own free will. She can be proven to be an extreme flight risk because she ALREADY tried to escape. If her lawyer tries to get her out on the grounds that she is being held in a death trap, most federal judges will hand-wave it and tell the lawyer Opal is lucky she’s not being held as an ‘enemy combatant’ with no civil rights. Whether ARC pursues the charge or not, Opal is absolutely guilty of domestic terrorism. The only reason she’s getting a lawyer is because of PR. ARC can legally ship her off American soil and keep her in that deathtrap indefinitely without due process.
I used to work in counter-terrorism. “Overkill” is missiles, and the Air Force uses them anyway.
I think a good lawyer could argue that the the last three panels here is an assault on Maxima by Opal using her powers, just like the third panel was an assault on Harem using Vekter’s. After all, she could have just re-directed Stalwart to an empty space, instead she made sure that his attack got directed at Maxima.
I know it’s a bit of a stretch, but it’s also a new situation for the law to cover. But it’s definitely a use of force by Opal directed at Maxima, with the likely attempt to harm. (You might even be able to tack in ‘with a deadly weapon’ – with Stalwart as the weapon.)
I do not consider it a stretch at all, I think it would hold up well in court. Good job in pointing it out.
and that fact should scare the shit out of you.
that due process can/should be denied to anyone for any reason or given only because of the presence of PR and that it is indicated that a presumption of Guilt rather than innocence exists means that due process no longer exists for anyone.
how long before criticism of glorious leader becomes “domestic terrorism” punished by summary execution?
Cruel and unusual, because you just got put into solitary with the threat of death on escape. You can’t even be shot at for running to begin with, they’d have to be physically threatening someone to be shot at. Now they’re being told “Try and die”
This is also being done to people they still have no idea if it was another’s powers or not that did it to them.
Also, the idea that it was terrorism is a joke, as nothing about the fight even seemed to scream terrorism and screamed more of a bar fight.
Though, I’d say any good lawyer would bring up the fact that Opal never layed a finger on anyone. She didn’t even do a verbal assault.
Both the cruel and unusual angle and the terrorism one would be heavily debated in court. Both have valid arguments for and against.
For the cruel and unusual one to carry weight though, it would be necessary to demonstrate a practical and enforceable method, which could serve as an alternative. If none is forthcoming, or it fails to withstand scrutiny, then it becomes a matter of necessity, in order to protect the public from a clear and present danger.
I have seen recent medical cases where rulings have been summarised as “we know that this option is cruel, and does represent risk to the individual. But it is the least cruel of the options available”.
Please refer to DStaal‘s comment above, in this very thread, regarding this point. Opal did assault a policeman, by virtue of redirecting Stalwart’s attack towards Maxima.
Further the battle could not have taken place without Opal’s active participation in gathering all the combatants together. Let alone clearly being heavily involved in the planning of it. She is a ring leader and therefore more culpable than most. And with the least credibility in saying that everything she did was due to the aggro aura.
As a conspirator (and leader) she is complicit with and chargeable with every offence committed there, including attempted murder of various police officers. It matters not where her fingers were at the time!
Actually… What evidence do we have that Opal was put in solitary? Sure she’s alone in her cell, but that cell could be part of the ‘general population’ area. They could even have the entire general population area pressurized – it’s a decent general-purpose guard against escapes. (It’d also be one of the few things that would stop Vekter, for instance – and his powers are completely different.)
It could be that they just have individual cells for prisoners. Or – even if they intend to share cells – the fact that it’s a purpose built prison with four prisoners, three of whom are male means that she doesn’t currently have a cellmate.
Aside from the fact that it looks like she is in a single-occupancy cell, with its own air lock?
There is the moral issue. The cell has been built to be fatal to those exiting it. As soon as they place her, a portal creator in it,* the nature changes to also being fatal to all other occupants. Be that in the room, or in other parts that freely connect to it.
Whilst a moral case can be argued for “if you attempt to escape it will kill you”, there is no reasonable basis for “if your companion attempts to escape it will kill you”. Her companions would have no means to avoid dying if she attempted to open a portal.
Although, if they each have their own cell, with independent life-support, and full containment, capable of withstanding explosive decompression, your suggestion is more tenable. The main risks are when they are allowed out, into the shared communal areas.
In which case there is a reasonable basis to argue that the right to a social life does balance the risks inherent to this means of containment. And it is a choice that the prisoners could be allowed to make themselves.
* Or a blaster capable of destroying the wall, or a super-strength villain capable of ripping the door off, etc.
The independent life-support and containment would be why it has an airlock-style door – even if it’s kept at the same pressure on the other side normally, it means a leak can be contained to an individual cell. (Or outside them, as the case may be.)
But you make a good point – individual cells would be much safer.
Which brings back to my original point: Nothing in this comic says that she’s in solitary. Just that she’s in an individual cell.
Psst, I hinted at one other point you could have gone with too (well said on the others by the way). Look at Vehemence’s cell. The similarities extend beyond just aesthetics. There is also a curve to the walls. Which you would expect in a pressure-cell, but is probably unduly expensive in a regular prison block. Square rooms are normally more economical.
I wouldn’t call Opal’s ‘you die if you portal out of here’ a first resort.
It’s the ONLY resort (unles you can dream up some other method of keeping her locked up)
My Uncle Kevin is a retired Green Beret who’s mastered twelve different marial arts, founded a private security firm, and trained the Saudi Royal Guard in hand to hand combat. He’s the only person who’s outshot my father with a rifle AND outshot my Uncle Mack with a handgun. But his real specialty is knife-fighting. In terms of martial arts, it’s been said that he’s in the same league as Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee. My father refers to him as one of the most dangerous men on the planet. My entire family is military, yet he is the undisputed badass of the family. When you say “Kevin,” I don’t think “non-threatening.” I think of him.
Did someone un-braid Opal’s hair? o_O
It may have been for security reasons. There is the possibility of hiding something like a wire saw or a garrotte inside a hair braid.
Hell a hair stick can be lethal if you stab in the right place with them.
A few weeks ago, a woman was found to have hidden a pistol in her hair weave and discovered while searched prior to jail.
That must have been one hell of an Afro to be able to hide a gun in
Hey what if she opened a portal to a decompression chamber, if she ever gets out and doesn’t have a lifestyle change shes probably gonna need to invest in one of those and find a way to turn it on if she gets caught.
The chamber would have to be at the same pressure she was at to start with. Then she could be decompressed over a period of time. Even 4 pounds difference could cause her problems.
As has been pointed out, the solution to this is to overestimate the pressure. Decompression will kill you. Compression won’t. The problem then becomes the gas mixture. The first step to solving that problem is to exhale before opening a portal into a decompression chamber at high pressure and the appropriate gas mix. Then, I _think_ normal decompression procedures will get whatever gas mix was in your prison out of your blood as you go through the appropriate mixes for the level of pressure you’re at (to avoid oxygen and nitrogen poisoning and still get enough oxygen, you need to change the amount of oxygen and nitrogen in the mix–and replace the nitrogen with helium or hydrogen–several times before switching to compressed air).
“Kevin” is listed as one of the possible monsters that could be released in the movie “The Cabin in the Woods.” I’m not exactly sure what that would be but considering what the other things were I don’t think I would want to meet that “Kevin”.
Kevin reminds me of how LFG comic introduced Richard (https://www.lfg.co/page/3/)
“I am Richard. Chief warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the Thirteen Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the Undead”
“Haha, your name is Richard?”
There are dangers to high pressure environments: Nitrogen narcosis & High-pressure nervous syndrome. The second was a major plot point in the movie “The Abyss”. That said, bringing the pressure back to normal periodically might avoid this.
Or have her on a oxy-helium mix.
Living in a pressurized facility for lengths of time can have neurological side-effects, such as psychosis. [remember the film The Abyss?]
How about a GPS enabled shock collar? Basically, if she moves more than a few feet away from the cell.. ka-zap! then it broadcasts it’s location and they come get her.
I remember the ‘just let me die and try to revive me afterwards’ scene. So Felfish.* So romantic.
*eyes water up*
Dust, it is dust in my eye, dammit. Guys don’t cry!
* A word derived from the actions of a character of mine, named Felf. Ok, normally she would be committing Felfish acts on others. But the principle is the same. Commit what seems to be a heinous crime, but which is genuinely done for the best interests of the apparent victim, and which will put them in a better situation than they previously were.
Just make sure you are on her friends list. Everyone else does not necessarily qualify for the second part of the service.
High-pressure nervous syndrome (HPNS) is a result of using a helium mix. They probably have her on Hydrox, a mix of just hydrogen and oxygen, which has no problems of nitrogen narcosis, is extremely effective at fighting HPNS, and is used on the deepest dives in the world, including a simulation that set the world record at 2,300 feet (simulated in a decompression chamber). That’s a whopping 68 atm, or a thousand PSI. The other thing about Hydrox is that the oxygen level is very low, requiring high pressure to use, because at higher oxygen levels the mix is explosive. So if they’re using Hydrox and Opal tries to equalize pressure, and there’s a spark where she’s venting the Hydrox, the Hydrox mixed with air will explode. Also, as the pressure lowers, Opal will start suffocating and eventually black out–which will close her portal. It’s a frighteningly effective security system because it doesn’t actually NEED monitoring. Lowering the pressure will reduce oxygen intake until you lose consciousness. At that point, an automated system to pump in more Hydrox and raise the pressure is required to keep her from sustaining brain damage (and, you know, so she eventually wakes up), but she will wake up with a killer headache. If she’s stupid enough to use a moving portal to get air into her room, she could blow herself up, but it’s the kind of setup where it’s actually a good idea to let the prisoner make a few escape attempts. They will be physically painful and likely extremely depressing, as she will have a lot more than a voice telling her the futility of escape. If she sticks a finger through a portal, it will explode. If she brings in outside air, it explodes. If she slowly lowers the pressure, she suffocates. The biggest problem with the setup is rapid medical response.
NOAA’s Aquarius is an pressurized underwater laboratory that has been operated since 1986. You want to know about long-term exposure to a pressurized environment, look at the research conducted there.
well it’s either isolated restraining or keeping him high on laughing gas
Laughing gas doesnt have a side effect of the munchies :)
Oh dear, I so distrust it when people proclaim their prison facility is state of the art and dont worry about it. Its right up there with, “I am unstoppable! No man can defeat me! For claims that are literally daring murphy to give you the pimp hand.
As for Vehemence, heh, I wonder if dabbler could bring a few of her lady friends over to work on containment. A 24/7 lust aura would work pretty well at keeping him from being ticked off and give them free meals whenever they are in the mood. And the activity would do well for keeping him too exhausted to power up in between visits. Plus that would be kind of hard to argue about in court.
“Your honor its terrible! There are a half dozen gorgeous ladies who keep coming into my cell and giving me the most mind blowing exhaustive sex I have ever wanted, heck, that I never even knew was POSSIBLE and it makes escape really difficult!”
“Would that explain why your desk is moving right now?”
“Well yeah! They want to make sure I dont use my rage aura or something I guess.”
“Hmm, in that case, I order you set free and myself imprisoned in your place for the next week. Case dismissed!”
He he.
Trouble is that some Succubi are likely to enjoy rougher sex. So there could be a serious feedback loop problem with that plan!
Maxima is only being confident about it in a “let us worry about the details” sort of way. Incarcerating supers is dangerous and expensive and they know it
Hopefully they have or soon will stumble upon a super that can manipulate plant growth or something to keep them in good supply of the weed.
Or (not to re-use a joke I already said) … just have him imprisoned in Colorado :)
Well, Vehemence isn’t wrong. Kirby is super goddamn adorable.
‘Kirby is a ravenous cannibal who thrives on the blood of mass-murder.’
Thank you for explaining what this ‘Kirby’ is.
Kerbin is the most powerfull entity in existance.
It easts anything you can possibly throw at it, absorbs its energy and throws it back at you. And that is, if Kerby doesn’t just eat YOU and absorbs your energy
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That is all.
Seems like vehemence is being held in Colorado
Okay a bit of Legalese –
Rico Act would allow ARC to charge any of them with a felony if one of them could be charged with one.
Conspiracy Law has a lot of weird capabilities. Proving foreknowledge and actual awareness of such might not stick to all the subordinate cannon fodder though. (See Barberarian)
But Ms Portal and the Telekinetic who obviously were in charge and coordinated the gathering and convincing of all the other supers would get the biggest charges. Bigger the better, best that they can possibly maybe get a conviction in a court of law established to handle Supers. Which no doubt would abrogate the capability and Right to face your accusers. But I’m sure Maxima could care less and would show up in person, even if the Jury, Judge etal weren’t physically present.
Neither would the court appointed Lawyer. Firing your lawyer tactic doesn’t work so well when they might have five or six on standby for just that situation, who all were pre-briefed on and following the trial remotely too.
Also Patriot Act and several other DHS secret laws could guarantee their being disappeared or renditioned to a location where escape would be problematic.
How exactly would Ms Portal escape from one of Dabbler’s pocket dimensions?
Okay part Deux- How to contain Harem…all of her at the same time?
Easily. Dabbler to the rescue again. W/o letting her know she Charms, Lusts and Kisses any Harem and tells her she needs “All of them at the same time, she has new toys or a special technique she wants to try…four hands, a double tongue and a cyber tail she can put back on if need be and the promise of techno-wizardry sex toys…
Harem, being herself would be there in an Instant…contact poison/drug and all go down. Or area effect Zap and unconsciousness and then the sleepy bye collars are placed on her.
Long term though, you’d need Dabbler to Debrief her…Pillow talk and it’d take some skill to keep all five minds so occupied that she couldn’t think straight…something that’d affect all of her bodies at the same time.
If pain can do it, why couldn’t continuous orgasms? Though after a bit it might be too much even for a woman.
Capturing Harem would be fine for Dabbler. She is a cop, so that is part and parcel of her duties. Containing her long-term though, is not. Especially as the latter method you described would make Dabbler every much a prisoner as Harem. She would have to stay with Harem all the time.
And she certainly would not be providing pocket dimensions or any other technomagic to humans. Dabbler is very clear that her toys are for her use only, not others. Humans are not trustworthy enough to have earnt access to them.
What works to contain Opal works even better to contain Harem. Harem will lose a body testing the chamber, but she can always make a new one. The only problem I foresee is this: if Harem PERMANENTLY loses one of her bodies, she can make an entirely new one. In theory, she already has, and just has to keep it “un-teleported” whenever the other five bodies are all in play. If Harem makes an entirely new body, what are the limitations on where she can make it? Of course, if she un-teleports a body, makes a sixth, and swaps it, then after she suicides one to test the prison she could un-teleport the “sixth” Harem and be running free in one body while incarcerated in four. It might take ARC-Aegis a while to realize that she’s not “four-Harem” size…
The real question is not how to keep Harem from going somewhere else, it is how to keep her where she is. Is there ANY way besides unconsciousness to prevent her from un-teleporting a body? Since her mind exists in a state of quantum entanglement, is it possible to make her unconscious without making all of her bodies unconscious? I’m afraid that the only way to truly confine Harem is to collect all of her bodies and put them all in a permanent state of unconsciousness–and I’m also afraid that ARC-Aegis won’t go that far.
Provided you can capture and contain all of her bodies (keeping the initially captured ones sedated, until all are captured and placed in pressure cells), the problem is solved. Even when Harem puts a body into storage, it comes out in the same state as it went in. With absolutely no change (this is canon, notably as regards still bleeding, or remaining thirsty, hungry or exhausted). So if it was under high pressure going in, it is under high pressure coming out.
I believe the same would apply to teleportation too. Unteleporting a body is using the same power, so would have the same side-effects too.
Further, when creating a new body she does that by teleporting, to a new location, but also keeping the existing body at the old location. Thus these bodies are absolutely identacle initially. It is only subsequently that she can add tattoos or change hairstyles. Thus she would be creating a duplicate body, which is also under the effects of being in a high pressure atmosphere (compressed cells, blood chemical changes, etc).
So any technique she used to get a body outside of the cell would still have to overcome the pressure differential problem by some other means.
The solution for dealing with Vehemence was to fill the room with Weed Smoke and have him play Kirby’s Epic Yarn…. OK That is pretty hilarious and makes perfect sense XD!
A collor or blt which can deliver measured doses of pain and/or have the capability of delivering knock out substance combined with a transiever assembly might be useful. At least for those suppers whom you can keep the device on them. Also maybe an implant.
First off there is a range limit. Teleports away from the facility and the collar activates. Locator beacon tells the intel guys exactly where to find the run away teleporter.
As to triggering on power use, some powers might be detectable, and some might not need even bother with. IE, with the teleporter may not need to bother activating as long as the person stays within the prescribed area.
The biggest potential problem with a physical worn control device might be effectiveness against the individual, people with super strength who might be able to simple rip it off, and individuals who might be able to simply phase out of the device. In short, keeping the device on the super.
Teleporters can overcome that, by teleporting to a spot where the transmitters will not be detected. Say on the far side of the planet. Or, for those lacking such range, simply underground, or even in a valley.
I live in one of the latter, at a convenient spot where I do not have these issues (and would not have moved here otherwise). But most of my neighbours cannot pick up, or transmit, radio signals, without a booster/receiver set-up on a nearby hill-top, tuned to the particular settings they need.
Without Archon being able to tell where the teleporter has gone, the plan falls apart. Either their ally removes the collar, or they simply wait until the knock-out dose wears off, if they have that variety. The pain version they could just put up with, until they could use bolt-cutters, or similar, to remove. Especially if they have access to strong pain killers. Even alcohol would help numb the pain.
Important safety announcement:* Do not attempt to operate machinery, capable of cutting through metal, whilst intoxicated. Especially if the metal you want to cut is wrapped around your neck!
* Which you are extremely unlikely to ever need at home. I hope.
So. Turns out a tank covered in yarn is a thing… I actually met some of the girls doing that. They described it as knitting the tank a sweater to protest war or something? They were kinda….vague. I mean I went to an art college they were a little out there even by our standards. Had to sit through an hour “lecture” by them about it…
Depending on the setting, you have to be careful HOW you protest, though. In the Heavy Gear RPG, some protesters chained themselves to a very old Gear, whose pilots called it Bowser.
Now, the Gears are equipped with neural net computers – a regular computer isn’t powerful enough to handle the multitude of sensory input, except in the most basic of civilian models – and given enough time and experience, those computers become almost, but not quite, sentient and somewhat able to act on their own accord. Bowser has been operational for around 200 years…
It isn’t supposed to be possible for a Gear to operate without a human pilot, but Bowser responded by starting himself up and taking the protesters on a vigorous drag around the base…
Did the “sweater” have a camouflage pattern? If so, it might have just been a cunning plan, disseminated by army intelligence, to save on costs of buying camouflage netting!
A deviously clever ploy, which keeps anti-war protesters happy and, more importantly, not being a nuisance elsewhere. Plus allowing budgets to be focussed on buying more guns!
I think I’m too much of bronie now. My first thought was “why are they showing pre season 4 My Little Pony?”
Twilight Sparkle is just a unicorn in the picture. At the end of season 3 she became an alicorn, which means she would also have wings.
They also might want to not play any 2 part episodes either. Those tend to get, well, violent. End of Season 4, for sure off the watch list.
Yes, I would say you have symptoms which would be very indicative of Bronieism. Just one more check… have a look between your legs. If you have unicorn horn-like organ there, or a dangly version of the same, your diagnosis is confirmed.
Otherwise [one quick googling later] you have come down with Pegasister.
Oh, I know I’m a bronie. It’s the fact I was thinking of which episodes you don’t want him to watch that bothered me. Seriously. The season final for season 4 is NOT what you would think a show called My Little Pony would have. More like a Dragon Ball Z episode. Very much violence.
well i know opal will not like this containment,, for if i recall corectly prolongated exposure to high pressure environment cause women to have more frequent mentruations,, to the point of even it being near constant.
Unless they decide to charge her with something (which, as others have already pointed out, they have plenty of things that they could charge her with), she won’t be there for more than two days. That’s the maximum amount of time that a law enforcement agency can hold someone without charging them with something. I doubt two days is going to be long enough to trigger that effect.
I’ve never been able to take Darkseid or Apokolips seriously, because, really, learn to spell, guys. “Apokolips” in particular always makes me snicker.
Love the idea of high pressure cells. Wouldn’t have to be all that high pressure either. Probably just 2-3 atmospheres.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-maximum-depth-a-human-body-can-go-to-under-water-beyond-which-the-pressure-would-be-intolerable
That article is incorrect. The U.S. Navy and Comex cracked the HPNS problem in ’68 and ’69 with hydrogen-based gas mixtures, allowing dives of 500-700 meters. A Swedish Engineer, Arne Zetterstrom, actually solved the problem in 1945, but he died during a test dive due to surface equipment failure. The deepest dive on record was simulated in a decompression chamber, but used Zetterstrom’s original mix of 96% hydrogen and 4% oxygen (called Hydrox now) to reach 701 meters in 1990. Zetterstrom was diving to 160 meters.
The interesting thing about Hydrox is that you have to be at a minimum of 40 meters to use it, due to the lean oxygen content, and a higher oxygen content with pure hydrogen is explosive.
Also, the promise of a quick but agonizing death implies at least 9 atm, as was the case in the Byford Dolphin diving bell accident of 1983. That’s the equivalent of 93 meters, by the way.
The obvious way out of Opal’s particular trap: you port into a pressure vessel that ARC doesn’t control, then slowly bleed off the excess pressure. If I had similar powers, I would have constructed a sealed-off room, no doors windows or vents, just to hide my loot. But if she wasn’t that forward-thinking, there are many possibilities: sealed-off cave (there are several known ones used to store pressurized air as a sort of battery for solar power), abandoned boiler possibly at a decommissioned nuclear plant, international space station, that sea-lab off the coast of Florida, an actual depressurization chamber… just takes a little creative thinking.
It is actually a hard problem to solve. Doubly-so if you get a gamer involved, we’re inventive devils, when it comes to knocking the plot off the rails. The best solution I’m aware to this problem was in “The Stars My Destination”, wherein basically, if you didn’t know where you were teleporting from, you couldn’t know exactly where you were going to, and might wind up in an extremely fatal place. So teleporting criminals were taken unconscious to a secret location from which teleporting would essentially be fairly suicidal.
International Space Station wouldn’t be useful; it’s only pressurized to 1 atm, and likely can’t hold much more pressure than that. (I’m actually surprised it’s at that high a pressure – many space capsules and such were held at fairly low pressure, sometimes with an oxygen-rich mix so you could operate at lower yet. It’s less air and less manufacturing if you don’t need to hold the pressure as high – although the high-oxygen mixes brought risk of fire.)
So you blow a few seals, and it slowly depressurizes itself, ideally. I could still see it working, but… yeah, not a good first choice, I must admit. Catastrophic failure wouldn’t likely be something you would survive.
It’s not that simple. She has to portal to somewhere with almost as high a pressure as she’s in. If they’re keeping her at 38 atm, and she ports to anywhere below 30 atm, she will die. See the 83 Dolphin accident. At that high pressure, the atmosphere in a breath requires a lower oxygen mix to avoid oxygen poisoning, so the new air will also kill her. Nitrogen narcosis means she’s probably breathing a nitrogen-free atmosphere, and if you replace it with helium you risk high-pressure nervous syndrome, so you go with Hydrox, which is a hydrogen-oxygen mix with a low enough oxygen content that it’s not highly flammable/explosive. She has to worry about pressure and atmospheric composition when she ports, and if she’s in a deep-diving decompression chamber, porting to a standard decompression chamber at maximum pressure will still explosively decompress her. A sealed room won’t suffice, unless it’s the exact size of her chamber and she takes the entire atmosphere in her room with her–and even then, if the room she’s porting to contains air and she’s breathing hydrox, a spark will blow up the new mixture. She may also get oxygen poisoning from the new mix.
Well, that’s the sort of extreme thing where you’re betting your enemy won’t take you with them into a fiery death. I mean, Arianna’s office isn’t off-limits either. I can’t see ARC gambling like that.
I had not heard of the Dolphin incident previously, but having looked it up, imagine that, at the cost of your own life, you could direct something like that.
Alright, so question: Is Arc-Aegis prepared to incarcerate Maxima?
It’s the military. If you don’t do something to ensure peoples’ loyalty, they will turn on you at the drop of a hat. And people with power, enjoy nothing but more power.
Of course they are! Max is right at the cusp of being a liability: someone with incredible personal power who is also extremely intelligent and not easily manipulated. Right now, if I had to guess, the military has an emotional leash on her. She’s dedicated to the cause. But that’s no guarantee of anything. She’s a bit of a nerd and a free thinker, and that’s DANGEROUS even without her sorts of powers. Edward Snowden went rogue with less.
I’m not exactly sure how you’d do it, but I know there’s a contingency plan for the contingency plan.
Same plan as the plan to stop batman: The Justice League (Arc-Swat)
Out of curiosity I have looked up various definitions of “hotbox”. There is another meaning which seems to be applicable here:
“- an enclosure used for beef aging”
Well, right now he’s smokin’…Getting baked real good, he is…
yep he’s pretty beefy too so they’re making smoked beefcake.
When it comes to names and where they fall o the intimidation, good/bad guy scale, I love my own personally. Sam Vincent (there are a lot of us by the way, including an ex pro basketball player).
In most movies/books/shows, Anyone named Sam is almost always a good guy. Very few evil Sams. However, Vincent is almost always a villain or at least anti-hero. So in the end, my name balances out to be fairly neutral. Which means you’ll never know which side I’m on. BUAH HA HA HA ha ha….um, unless i, do something like that. Damn. That really IS a condition.
But any boys you have are set to be serious monsters. They’re still Vincent, but they’re also sons of Sam…
Now youre just making me want to have kids more
Vincent Price was a gourmet cook, art historian, painter, philanthropist, and general all-around cool guy…. and a famous Hollywood villain. It’s no dishonor at all to share a name with him.
None whatsoever! I loved Vincent Price! And while I love being a Vincent, it does make a cooler first name than last.
Oh, I don’t know…. I can think of two pop culture references off the top of my head where having names that don’t match were fitting. The first one, of course, is the ever famous Johnny Cash song “A Boy named Sue” that tells the story of a man named as such who had to grow up to be a badass out of necessity, (It’s also worth noting that Mandark from Dexter’s Laboratory has the legal first name of Susan).
Here’s the song for those who haven’t heard it yet: https://youtu.be/WOHPuY88Ry4
A more recent, if less famous, example would from PVPonline a few years back where Francis’s WoW character was renamed Kisseybear as a joke by his coworkers. He took to it as he liked the idea of taking down opponents who then had to live with the fact that the were defeated by Kisseybear, :)
So beware those folks who have seeming harmless names; they might kick your butt. ;)
Watch out for Clarence Deedlbalm.
“That’s Dr. Rockman, to you.”
You win an Internet cookie.
If he thinks Kirby’e Epic Yarn is cute, wait until he’s authorized for a Wii U and Yoshi’s Woolly World!
Though that one may induce a little more rage…
How do they handle getting Opal and/or Kevin to trial if and when it’s decided that they shouldn’t be released? It seems that the pressurized cell would be very immobile, unless the imprisoned teleporter was allowed ear plugs and a breath mask, which would be possible to take with them in a teleport. Kevin’s antidepressant containment would be a threat to public safety if it was released into public air unless it was dispensed in a breath mask or an IV, either of which he could remove.
Side note – Would it be possible to contain Kevin on something more legal than marijuana, maybe a prescription antidepressant? Is it possible that he IS being contained on something more legal?
They can ‘appear’ at the trial via video link – they stay in the cell, but can interact with the persons at the trial as needed.
All the hints are for marijuana. As for legality, that depends on which state the prison is in, given that it is legal in several now. And, in others, it has been legal, for medicinal purposes, for even longer.
Plus legislation has been passed to form Archon. Part of which was bound to address the needs of the prison arm of it. So there is probably some contingency which provides for them being able to take ‘such extraordinary measures as may be necessary to contain individuals with super-powers’. Almost certainly with a bunch of restrictions and conditions. But provided none of the latter included marijuana, for some reason, then its use here would be legalised.
But, there are other alternatives that would work fine, if not be as funny. Nitrous oxide (laughing gas) being a very good option, provided it he is monitored by a suitably trained individual, such as an anaesthetist.
“Plus legislation has been passed to form Archon. Part of which was bound to address the needs of the prison arm of it.”
This is correct – but I’m not so sure that the imprisonment part of the new law covered what to do about a super if they have NOT been charged yet. Because they never even anticipated someone like Vehemence being able to do what he did. Not to mention that, even if they did, it would probably be considered too broadly construed and would be difficult to have it survive judicial scrutiny as soon as even one lawsuit was used to say that part of the law was unconstitutional (which it would very possibly be).
Oh but the thing with Vehemence and the pot smoke? That I can definitely see happening. I have very little doubt that, of all the supers in that fight, Vehemence is the first one they actually charged with anything.
There’s no doubt it would be possible to contain Kevin with other drugs, but most will have side effects of several magnitudes bigger than Weed