Grrl Power #330 – Action zeroing the needle
I don’t know a ton about guns, but I know enough that a standard car door isn’t going to do much to stop a bullet, especially not something coming out of a rife. Now I don’t know if your standard police cruiser has slightly tougher doors – I assume they’re at least a little bit armored. Every movie and TV show ever has cops popping out of their car and taking cover behind the doors. I guess it’s better than nothing even if it isn’t armored as it kind of hides you, but even if they’re armored like battleship plating it seems like a good way to get shot in the feet.
Most cop/detective/etc show have people being moderately intelligent about using cover, but as soon as you stray anywhere near action hero territory, it seems like the good guy never wins because he uses his environment tactically, he wins merely because the bad guys can’t hit squat. How many times have you seen a hero running down a hallway or across a clearing while multiple people fire automatic weapons at him? Can you think of a single scene like that where the guy even tries to zig zag? No, he runs in a straight line, usually in slow motion cause it looks more dramatic. If no one firing at him had ever handled a gun before, ok, then I’d buy that the hero could escape unscathed, but usually he’s up against mercenaries or soldiers of some sort, and presumably they’re familiar with their weapons.
I may need to tweak Peggy’s dialog a little on this page as “Firearms 101” isn’t the name of an actual course in the military. Also I’m pretty sure “technical manuals and regs” isn’t the right lingo either, but I wasn’t sure how to phrase it. Asking about this stuff on Twitter gets a lot of different answers as it seems every branch does things a little bit differently.
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“Technical Manuals and regs” isn’t military jaron. “Technical Manuals” has too many syllables for your average ground-pounder. XD We just say “tm and regs”.
What does ‘tm and regs’ stand for? Trade marks and registrations? o_O
Technical manuals and regulations.
Doy. :P
Point was, the only way for a ‘average ground-pounder’ to know what ‘tm and regs’ meant was to have already taught them what ‘tm and regs’ meant
It’s like those emails and crap where they randomly place the order of letters in words apart from the first and last: the reason you can still read it is because you know what those words should look
Somehow, this reminds me of the day I started a new job, and IT emailed me my login ID and password to my shiny new work address. If that doesn’t seem any strange to you, think on it.
Referring to ‘Tm and regs’ for someone who doesn’t know what it is (namely the audience) is in some ways similar – information is being conveyed, but locked (in an abbreviation) and the recipients (the audience) lack the needed access to decipher it.
Sounds like someone needed a good firing.
Unless the system immediately prompted a password change, you’re right. Emailing a PW can be fine, in certain situations.
I think you missed Torrenal’s point, which, if I’m reading right, is that the email was sent to the brand-new work account… that the log-in info was needed to access. It’s like giving someone a car with the keys locked in the car.
Indeed.
technical machines and regigas regirock registeel and regice?
love the pokemon reference!
It’s obvious you know nothing about what knowledge is required of the average infantryman.
Technical Manuals and Regs, or TM and Regs are country specific terms.
But then, this comic does take place in the US.
Also we don’t call infanteers “ground pounders” up here either.
Just to point this out, if you want a movie that shows how to hand firearms properly, watch the Tremors franchise while paying particular attention to how Burt Gummer handles his firearms.
The actor who played him was adamant about following proper gun safety rules.
I actually saw an interview about that! That’s true! :)
totally love the tremors franchise, also when cops take cover they usually have some form of body armor on as well. however some rifles like the .50 cal sniper rifle can punch through most items only stopping when they hit a big block engine or a thick slab of solid cement
quoted the movie on an earlier page because it started out with some good and reasonable weapons handling as the movies continued the needs to deal with the monsters got people acting like fools.
What I liked was that unlike most anti-gun Hollywood types who shoot people in their movies Michael Gross(Burt Gummer) was very specific that all Firearm safety procedures would be followed and he would not point a firearm at another person even if it was just a movie. He only agreed to do the role because he was using firearms to defend people from monsters.
So that sounds like … mmm . . a vegetarian actor, who is willing to appear in a movie, where she has to eat fish. But only with the rider that it has to be monstrous ugly fish. Seems familiar somehow.
Eminently ethical by the way. :)
It is technically possible to armor a car door to stop bullets, but mostly it doesn’t get done unless the entire car is going to be armored, since even if a car door was bulletproof it would be not the best of things to hide behind.
“Bullet resistant”
Mr DaveB sir, you are making your own brand new military branch, so you can do what you want with them: make up ranks, move insignia around and swap them, come up with your own terms and lingo
You know, Dave; he’s not wrong about that…
Actually, yeah, he is. Not saying that in a mean way. There are joint force regs on where some of the sh** goes. And if they’re pulling personnel from other branches (and they are, it’s already canon) then they will bring standard terminology with them, along with some terms unique to their own branch, MOS/NEC/Whatever-the-AF-calls-jobs, etc. With all that said, in a new organization within the military, new terms will be coined and that’s fine. I have no problem with teaching Sydney ‘Firearms 101’ because she’s new to all this and it’d make sense to phrase some of the instruction in terms that would be familiar to her.
Just because the comic has pulled in military members does not mean everything needs to be up to real-world military code and normalities. This is a comic centering around a girl becoming part of a superhero team, NOT a military documentary, so not only does it not matter if everything is correct, it doesn’t matter if NOTHING is correct in regards to military designation and jargon. You guys need to let it rest.
The thing is, correctness actually makes for a better story. If the author seems like they’ve done their research at all, then anyone who knows anything about the subject at hand will greatly appreciate that effort. They may nit pick, but the overall effort will still be respected. Also, the author has expressed an interest in correctness.
Further, much of the debating in the comments is just that; debating. These are nerds showing off their knowledge for nerd cred. That these debates may have an impact on a story that we enjoy, and a positive one at that, means that such debating is actually incentivized, and once something is incentivized, it won’t go away unless the incentives are changed significantly.
Also note that when something isn’t right we don’t generally jump down Dave’s throat about it unless it’s actually a big deal. We offer suggestions to be taken or left, and we accept that the story comes first.
Also note that due to Dave’s business model, we act as his collective editing staff. Most professional authors have to pay for the service that we are gladly providing for free.
It’s like in Jurassic World, I cringed at every bit of science in the entire movie, except the training of the velociraptors, which was actually pretty accurate. I applauded the effort towards understanding animal behaviour, nit picked a bit about how alphas actually work, and quietly acknowledged that there wouldn’t be a surprisingly good movie without that bad science.
People jumped down DaveB‘s throat about Varia’s accent (and pretty much every other characters’ accent if it differed even slightly from the Grammar norm)
The point was, he shouldn’t feel too bad if he doesn’t get everything exactly correct, and you just reinforced the point: you can’t please everyone, there will always be someone who complains about something being ‘not correct’
I agree
more to the point this is DaveB’s story and he will tell it how he wants to we are all just here for the ride.
Like a roller coaster that is inside, you don’t know where the turns are or hills and drops. just put your arms up and scream when the cart falls. that’s where the fun is.
Very nicely put.
Is it ‘not correct’ or ‘incorrect’? :P
Joking aside…
While its good to get things accurate, there is another side to this.
The author needs to keep things understandable to a nontechnical audience, which means cutting or explaining some of the more obfusticated jargon.
Sure, it’s good to get ranks proper, have a proper military structure, those things won’t confuse non-technical readers. ‘TM & Regs’, ‘FAE’, ‘ITBR’, get deep enough into the jargon and you’ve lost a sizable chunk of the audience.
I would think it would be a melting pot for vocabulary and some new terms created as ARC- sees fit or needed. I’ve met quite a few Marines that have had to reenlist in the army, and a few squids after there first tour who have gone into the Marines. They bring there own Jargon with them and adapt it to whatever the situation dictates.
See, now I want to donate enough to insert a character that uses gun kata. ^3^~♡
His superpower is producing an aura that makes everything run on movie logic.
Wait, that actually sounds awesome.
I want to see this.
Hey, how about ae pool our resources and make the character together? ^3^
It might be a terrible idea. Just imagine Sydney getting anywhere near that guy… or even just knowing he exists.
isn’t that part of the fun? EPIC MASTER OF GUN KATA defeated by one squealing fangirl.
If you wanted to put it in some kind of RPG terminology & use that to help decide the finer points of the power, try some version of Probability Alteration. It would be something like what Marvel’s Scarlet Witch does, but more specified & low-key in effect.
only works with pistols 70%dodge during counter attack +5 to hit must strike martial art pose during counter for power to have effect. only effective against firearms.
This actually sounds like the made-up prestige class from Order of the Stick: The Dashing Swordsman
100% resistance to broken glass, except on the bottom of his feet (for our character)
Can only make it just in the knick of time.
Bombs he defuses are always diffused last second.
Has clinging when gripping the top of a moving vehicle.
And hell, let’s give him the ability to curve bullets around corners, and can only be shot non-lethally in the shoulder!
Guys, this is one of the most brilliant ideas we’ve ever had!
Weaknesses:
Tough broads with attitudes and dark secrets.
Looking at explosions (because he has to walk away in slow motion).
Doesn’t play by the rules, because he’s his own man with his own rules… which he doesn’t follow, because he doesn’t follow anyone’s rules, not even his own, because he’s his own man B-\
Being on rooftops at night when it’s raining. (WHHYYYYYYY!?)
the gamer webtoon, check it out guys living a video game. sounds like your idea here.
You mean The Gamer manwha/Korean manga, where a guy has all the myriad stereotypical abilities and arbitrary devices of video game characters?
Webtoon is correct.A Form Of Manhwa That Is Published Online, with layout Suitable FOr Continuous Scrolling On Smart Devices, instead Of The Idiom Of Flipping Pages. Capitalization In This Comment CourteSy Of Swiftkey,Dont Know Why It Is Screwed Up In This Comment Box.
yes finally some one address what in movies drives me crazy thank you thank you I so love the out foul demons part hum may use that when the kids thanks :)
*Actually Does exorcise a few of her demons^ Who then promptly take up residence in each of the orbs.
BURP!
Mmm, tingly on the outside, but soulless on the inside. Interesting flavour. That will do as an appetiser. Now, where is that purple four-armed one? She looks tasty!
Any firearm user can tell you that using a firearm is difficult. I actually like the method used on Sidney to tell her that guns used in media is about as accurate as Startrek using science.
Using a sword is much more difficult than it is in anime and fiction.
Oh, no. Star Trek is FAR more accurate about its science than the average action flick. It’s more like…”as accurate as Harry Potter using science.”
Right, cause a tachyon pulse wouldn’t destroy everything it touches.
And ejecting your warp core to create an explosion that propels your ship out of the event horizon of a black hole TOTALLY makes sense.
HEY, we don’t talk about that reboot.
What reboot?
a book did it better so long as proper thrust provided and shields held could sit in a singularity, leaving was just a matter of going faster than light (provided they didn’t sink below the second horizon where warp speeds where insufficient to escape)
But… Doesn’t space itself warp radically near any black hole? Won’t that deform the ship? Bit like moving a circle with 365 degrees of circumference into a space where circles only have 320 degrees?
Called Spaghettification, yes space does warp radically near black holes.
Of course, Star Trek’s FTL drive is based on warping space as well. Theoretically, a warp drive could be modified to unwarp that warped space.
Granted, such an experimental modification would be infinitely less wise than simply getting away from the black hole with the conventional drive settings.
Does the Spaghetti Monster live near wormholes? Is that why physicists worship it?
Not wormholes. Black holes.
Whatever comes near to the black hole BECOMES the spaghetti. Spatial warping draws them out like pasta.
We shall never again speak of Trek as a source of technical realism after the Voyager pilot in which they reveal yet another particle-of-the-week as the cause of precipitation (thank goodness Earth is apparently dripping with the little buggers… literally…) and the entire plot to throw them to the other side of the galaxy hinges on no one in Starfleet remembering you can put TIMERS on bombs instead of personally babysitting them until they go off…
Don’t be silly. Bombs with timers are not meant to go off! They can’t even reach zero. Their mechanism makes them stop with between one to three seconds left.
However they do have villain and hero proximity detectors built in. If any of the former are present, but none of the latter, then a circuit forms, which allows the bomb to complete the countdown.
Oh come off of it. Star Trek is one of the least scientifically accurate TV shows out there.
You want scientifically accurate? Firefly got it right. THERE’S NO SOUND IN SPACE!
Star Wars technically is worse. The Incom T-65 and T-67 “Snub fighter” (that’s X-Wing Fighter to those of you who don’t speak geek) banking, rolling, and yawing like P-51 Mustangs? Yeah, not gonna happen in outer space.. Maneuvering like that requires not only airfoils (which the X-Wing has), but also air moving across those airfoils (which outer space doesn’t have).
Then again, we don’t watch this stuff for the science, we watch it because it’s cool, right?
It is in deep space. And on Hoth. Not so much when hopping around trying to avoid falling in lava or some molten metal industrial process.
As someone who’s actually handled and used European-style rapiers and broadswords, I wholeheartedly agree that what you see in movies, with two notable exceptions, is definitely NOT remotely similar to real swordfighting.
The two exceptions that I’ve seen personally were Madmartigan from Willow (one of the few movie fighters who I saw and did NOT think “I could take that guy down in ten seconds, easy!) and the infamous fencing duel from The Princess Bride (because Thybault really _does_ cancel out Capo Ferro!).
Ahh, now you are talking super-conductor cool!
You can also just google gun myths and the first few links will likely be cracked.com
or just send the inquirie to mythbusters and watch them test it all out with robots and shit
Good to see that the comic is back on track and not being awkward anymore. Also, I like how Peggy is finally understanding how to deal with Sydney… Speak in terms pop culture references.
Agreed. Loved the Yoda reference in the last frame!
Wait, when did it ever get off track?
Dunno, coming up blank. Perhaps the ‘awkward’ stuff is … (lets be discrete, in case it is causing embarrassment)… women’s issues?
One big gun myth that bugs the crap out of me is dropping guns makes them shoot… Hollywood does this pretty much every time a gun is dropped. As a result, people try to catch guns when they drop them, and wind up pulling the trigger by accident while catching it, shooting someone… If they’d just let it fall, nothing would have happened, no bullets would have been fired. There are people who have died because of that myth.
Not ENTIRELY true, Tokumei. There are a number of guns that will go off when dropped. Any weapon that has a hair trigger stands a good chance of going off if dropped. Most modern weapons do not have hair triggers. But that’s one reason why basic gun safety includes “when handling a gun, keep the muzzle pointed downrange or at the ground,” because if you do drop it with the muzzle pointed in a “safe” direction, then even if it goes off, it’s not likely to hurt anyone. It’s also why another basic point is generally, “do not keep the gun loaded and only load your ammunition into firing position (eg, cylinder in place, magazine clicked in, round chambered, whatever) until just before you are ready to fire.” You are least likely to have accidents that way.
No, as a general rule it’s only *old* guns that will go off when dropped. Specifically guns old enough to not have hammer blocks, or other drop-safety mechanisms. It has nothing to do with having a ‘hair trigger’ (aka: extremely light trigger pull).
There are exceptions to that rule, such as a gun which has been used or abused to the point of failure, or designs with flaws, but if you randomly select 100 modern firearms at your local gun shop, load them, and drop them you’d have to be *extremely* unlucky to get even one of them to fire.
Had someone drop his m16 at the range. It went off. It was pointing down range so no one got hurt luckly.
I sincerely hope it was immediately sent to the Armorer, as it was obviously defective. Military firearms are specifically designed not to do that.
Not… entirely true. An AR/M16/M4 has what is known as a “free-floating” firing pin. In other words, it rattles around in its channel within the bolt. If you drop the bolt on a live round, then extract said round without firing it, oftentimes you’ll have a tiny little dimple in the primer, caused by the firing pin developing just enough momentum from the bolt closing to impact and mark the primer. Firing the weapon does impart significantly more force on the firing pin, causing it to set off the primer, but you CAN accidentally/negligently discharge one of these rifles by, oh say, butt-stroking something hard (like a door, face, etc.), or by dropping/flinging the rifle hard onto its muzzle. That being said, it has to be A) a hard enough force and B) at exactly the right angle, in order to cause this sort of unintentional discharge.
It’s the same thing with any other firearm that has a free-floating firing pin and/or no firing pin block/disconnect mechanism. Exactly the right amount of force, at exactly the right angle, can fire them without the trigger ever being touched.
That being said, any modern Glock, Sig Sauer, CZ, Springfield XD, H&K, S&W, Ruger, or any of the “big” manufacturers (and most of the small ones too) will have some sort of safety mechanism to prevent exactly this from happening. Mechanisms range from blocks to disconnects, to shrouded firing pins, to manual thumb safeties, to as many others as inventors can dream up, but almost no modern pistol or revolver will discharge when dropped, unless it is, indeed, broken.
Actually once an object is falling (as opposed to teetering on the edge of falling), there is too little time for complex decision making. Our instincts, in such situations, is limited to “is this precious” or “is this dangerous”. Anything more complex, than that, would require specific, intensive, training to achieve.
As such I would argue that people catch, or avoid catching, guns based more on whether they view them as precious (ie something that should be prevented from taking harm by being dropped) or something dangerous.
And even then, note that this is what your subconsciousness thinks of the object. If you cook a lot, and are comfortable around pots and pans, you feel safe with them, and if one falls, you will try to grab it. Before you realise that it is BOILING HOT. Accident and emergency statistics corroborate this.
Even the simple dangerous/ safe response is often fooled by our modern environment. Where things can be safe in some situations, but not in others. Gravity works faster than our brains can go through the process of deciding which state it is in now. Again, this is unless specifically trained for such, which basically takes the thinking time out of the equation.
If you love your gun, plus feel you are in command, and that ‘it is the person who chooses when the gun fires, not the gun’, then you are MORE likely to grab it, instinctively, when it is falling, than someone who considers a gun to be intrinsically dangerous.
ha, reminds me of a story my dad told of him and some crew mates sharing their last bottle of wine* while still having a week or so before hitting port and having a chance to re-stock. A particularly large wave struck them, and set everything flying: Dad caught the bottle, his own cup and one or two others before everyone else even flinched. I imagine he was thinking “is this precious? yep!!”
*merchant navy, and this was long enough back before they went “dry ship”.
While Halo may not be able to, I would think in a world of supers, some supers could actually do just what she said couldn’t be done. :p
In addition, if in a world of supers, a normal like Math can hang with supers, then for sure some gun fu would be likely.
What makes you think Math can’t do this himself? Art of the Intercepting 9mm…
Math is four star reflexes to Maxima’s five. He gets damned close to being able to do this!
I suspect that he will have little trouble with gunmen (as opposed to machine gunners, which would pose more of a credible threat to him). Maybe four star is good enough to do Matrix dodging. Maybe not. But it certainly is good enough to ensure that he is not where a gun is pointing. Then there is no need to dodge bullets.
Of course, to anyone with less than that degree of perception, super-speed or reflexes, it would look like he was dodging bullets. Somebody would be firing at him, he keeps evading, and the bullets keep missing.
The same would apply to someone firing on full auto (or using a shot gun), but he would have to ensure that he was well out of the way of any burst or spread of the projectiles. So if they caught him out in the open, in their kill zone, he would be in trouble.
And, of course, he cant’t dodge when he can’t see the opponent. If caught unawares, he is all too squishy.
Yes, but if you start with the baseline training needed to survive a gunfight, you can then add in the factor of superpowers for the individual. The baseline, of course, should also include lessons about how to handle some of the more common powers you’re likely to encounter in the field.
FREX: Fire- and Heat-based powers, wielded by someone without a compunction for sparing human life, could easily turn your firearm (or more specifically, any and all ammo you’re carrying for it) into a detriment. Speaking of which, I think I recall a page where Heatwave is making a gun too hot to hold. If my memory is correct, then it’s very likely she had to practice that quite a bit–getting the gun scalding hot without triggering the ammo inside strikes me as being a tricky balancing act.
Not really. All she needed to do was get it hot enough to boil water. That’s normally well below the threshold for primer/powder detonation. I know of a couple guns that were left loaded in ovens as hiding places, and the wife/relative decided to pre-heat the oven to bake something. The polymer frame of the guns melted quite spectacularly, but no spontaneous detonation occurred from it, not one single round.
Peggy, as a good instructor, knows when she needs to exorcise her students.
I have to say, the more focus there is on guns and the military the more uncomfortable I become. Obviously that’s going to be fundamental to the comic; it’s just antithetical to what I like about superheroes. I’m not criticizing, it’s just something I’ve noticed. Having been reading since the start, I never quite expected it to go in this direction. It is, of course, simply my own preference, not something I’d expect to be catered to.
That is interesting. What is it that you like about superheroes, then?
I have to agree. Militaries are like sausage factories. They’re necessary, but I’m quite uncomfortable with a lot of what goes on in there.
I’m not about to drop the comic or anything, it’s still hilarious and I love the characters, but I can only hope we move back to slice of life shenanigans or superpower training soon. Both of those would be much more fun than guns and salutes.
Both of those involve both guns and salutes, unless you want to exclude everyone except Sydney (even Maxi carries a gun and salutes)
The point is that this comic is going to be somewhat more realistic than the comics you’re used to, where a superhero can stand still and bullets just… always miss for no reason. Think about Green Lantern or the Flash without this plot armor. If they don’t know they’re about to get shot, they can wind up with a hole in their head and poof, gone. Same goes for anyone who doesn’t have some level of precognition/invulnerability.
So, you want your super-powered people to be able to handle guns and defend against gunners adequately. That’d be boring to do off-screen, and would just be a whole big assumption thing. This works, don’t let it bother you. It’s a great deal more logical and appropriate. Besides, you have nothing to fear or dislike about guns. Just the people holding them. Which goes for any weapon really, sword, knife, table leg, big rock…
Actually, Flash got snipped in the back of the head before. Fortunately his nervous system also runs at superspeed, so when the bullet touched his neck he immediately went full speed mode. He didn’t even realize what was happening at first.
https://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/loebs11.jpg
Oh no, I’m pretty sure I have an awful lot to dislike about guns. I just checked with myself and I confirmed that, yes, I have stuff to dislike about them.
Gun kata is techmicly possible but the computing power needed to work out the forms is better spent mapping the known universe
Way back when, in Army basic training, we were issued “smart books”. They had all the introductory information we needed to know – rank structure, military courtesy, history, and essential common tasks
(like shooting, putting on a gas mask, etc.)
The Army breaks manuals into two main groups – field manuals and technical manuals. FMs tell you how to do things, whether individually or in groups. Technical manuals tell you how to use or fix a piece of equipment, like a truck or rifle. Regulations tell you what the standards are, like proper wear of a uniform. And yes, the Army really does have a monthly Preventive Maintenance comic book.
It makes sense that the tablet would be preloaded with all the manuals (both field and technical) and regulations, for easy use later. Sidney just shouldn’t start with the technical stuff. Although she probably will, because they’re more interesting to her.
Thanks, I take a look in this Smart books about military. Looks something cool to read and learn :)
Had something similar in the air force. A brief history book, a list of the chain of command with everyone from the president down to a blank spot for our dorm chief, and a bit of the other random tasks. I think it had the info on how to setup our spaces for inspection and the like as well. Its been a long time so I dont fully recall. I just know we basically had to memorize the dang thing.
Oh my god, I forgot about the smart books. Man, I wonder where mine went.
We are in your closet! Underneath a stack of porn.
Actually, you’d be surprised how protected someone can be in a car. Cops have fired over 500 times into standard SUVS and still not hit anyone inside. It’s not that it’s armored,in so much that its layered and insulated, so the bullet loses far more accuracy and impact than it otherwise would. Then there’s the power of the gun in question
Safety glass has a habit of deflecting/diverting bullets, yes. And if you’ve got a threat inside a vehicle, one of your main instincts will be to aim at the windows, because you can -see- through them, and people (not just cops) have a tendency to aim at what we can see.
There’s also an instinct to just shoot at the center of the largest “target,” which is often the car itself. Dumping a magazine into an engine block does very little to neutralize any people inside who pose threats themselves, although if you’re lucky, you’ll hit something vital to the car and render THAT useless as a weapon, eventually (once it stops/overheats/etc).
Ithaca made a version of their Mag-10 shotgun marketed for just this situation. 21″ barreled 10-guage auto called the “roadblocker” supposedly meant to be a slug gun for blasting big chunks/gaping holes out of the engine/radiator.
really army just uses 240s and 249s the squad automatics in 5.56 and 7.76 round size 2-4 round burst stops the car and often convinces the driver that running the security lines was stupid. while keeping both away from american forces incase of vbieds.
That’d do it, but you still gotta wait for the car to stop rolling. Really, though, any high-velocity round that has enough weight and structural integrity would kill a car, if you put enough of them into the engine compartment.
As for the Ithaca, I’d imagine a 12-gauge would work too, especially if it was a 3″ or 3.5″ slug. Sounds more like slick marketing than an actual technical improvement. The 12 also has the advantages of being more “standard” and common than the big 10 these days, and in the magnum versions, can throw just as much lead (although I pity the shoulder that has to deal with the recoil of such!).
Yeah it was kind of a flop as far as sales were concerned. Even back in the mid 70’s when it first came out and 10ga was still a decently popular round, the Mag-10 (later bought by Remington and still to be found new as the SP-10) was rather much a niche sporting gun to begin with (turkey or high pass Goose gun), because most smokeless 10ga loads will beat you like a rented mule even in an auto. The idea of shortening it to a “Social” length was slightly cringe inducing to many.
then the 3-1/2″ 12ga mag load came along and replace the 10 in most folks battery.
I just had this sudden vision pop up where Sydney encounters a superhero who’s power is reality warping. So in fact they can just stand out there in the open firing off their guns and every bullet fired at them will miss.
Same goes for some of the other things mentioned. Someone with the power to boost, temporarily, the toughness of material. Car doors become bullet proof.
and then there is the classic super power, usually used by bad guys for some reason. Perfect accuracy.
Someone with absolute control over luck is in the top tier of super powers. All but invincible to anyone below that rank. And even a lot of other top-tier powers (such as super-speed) would fall foul of it. For example, even they can have an accident, and break a leg. Which they will do. And their arm. Oops there goes their neck.
But, other than cursing enemies, there are a lot of awfully nice powers, that can be emulated, just using absolute luck. For example pressure occurs because the number of atoms that ‘bump’ into you. The more there are, closely packed together, the more frequently they do that, and the greater the pressure.
Notably though only a few hit you, at anyone time. Where they are is a matter of chance. And that is something which is in your sphere of influence. Just convince them ALL not to bump into you, and you can walk on the bottom of the ocean, with no pressure problems. And you can convince natural processes which free up oxygen, from water, to choose to occur much more frequently than would happen by normal chance. Ooh, nice breathable air!
Either you will luckily have a lot of carbon dioxide absorbing material, on the seabed, where you are walking (no swimming needed, if there is no pressure), or all the carbon dioxide decides that the random direction it goes in is any direction that does not come near you. Dissipating into the surrounding ocean.
Of course you will also accidentally stumble across sunken treasure ships and alien artefacts, of unearthly power, like they were shops on your high street.
I find Peggy’s insistence on Sydney reading “Firearms101” ironic considering her actions that occurred earlier.
I do believe she needs a refresher course.
Who’s actions earlier?
You mean letting Sydney attempt to lift an unladed weapon that is heavier than Sydney herself? And, if by some miracle, Sydney had managed to lift it, Maxi would have moved over faster than Sydney could realise and relieve her of it
No. Allowing Max to put a gun in Sydney’s face.
They are soldiers. Getting used to having guns pointed at you, and know how you and others react, when that happens, is pretty much is a requirement of the job. Soldiers do it all the time when on training exercises.
Sydney needed training. Peggy authorised the training. Civilians can whine and cry if it involves having an unloaded gun pointed at them. Soldiers just need to man up. Neither Peggy, nor Maxima, did anything wrong.
Yeah, those are the options. “Whine and cry” or “man up.” Words fail me.
Seriously, the implications of someone expressing that sentiment are so horrifying that they’re actually gonna haunt me.
Sadly that is the world we live in.
There are people who use guns to threaten and kill the innocent. Then there are others who’s job it is to protect the innocent. To do that, they have to get used to the tools of their trade and the hazards of their working environment. Requiring either using weapons or learning how to disarm those who have them. Which requires training.
Trying to learn how to disarm someone, without them holding a weapon, would be fairly impractical. And the most intense training is required for those situations where the gun is pointing at you.
Likewise cardboard cut-outs of armed terrorists, for example, do not provide the same training as military maneuvers, or similar exercises, that simulate combat conditions in a more realistic fashion. Which is very important in improving the survival chances of the people getting the training.
Sydney’s situation is one which would only apply to certain super-heroes. But, because it is counter-intuitive, she very much did need the training. Without it, she would be endangering the lives of the very people she is attempting to give a warning to. Let alone the lives of others, including her team mates and herself.
Note that surprise can be part and parcel of elite forces training. Such as a simulated kidnap and interrogation. Archon will have to face the same kind of hazards and duties that elite forces do. So such training is just as important for them.
Just to set your mind at ease though, I wholeheartedly support the primary gun rule that guns should never be pointed at people. However this does come with very necessary exceptions. Such as when the circumstances legally permit killing or threatening to kill people. Likewise in properly conducted training.
Note that Maxima did take precautions, and follow procedures. For instance using an unloaded weapon, not having her finger on the trigger and getting the permission of the range maser, Peggy (in their own informal way).
As a final point, the armed forces, police and other security services all deserve our respect and admiration, for having signed up, in the first place, knowing the risks involved with firearms. Likewise as regards the restrictions of personal choice, be that in training or other circumstances. And even more for persisting with their duties day in, day out, through all the hazards and difficulties that their jobs entail!
I think what he is looking for are TMs and FMs. That is technical manuals and field manuals. Technical manuals deal with things like specifications, rate of fire, type of ammo usage so on and so forth. Where field manuals will teach actually how to use the information. For instance, there are TMs that teach you everything you need to know about a particular radio system. Not much use to say an EOD technician. But there is an FM on survival that teaches you how to set snares, build shelters, even start a fire in different kind of locations such as desert, tropical, mountainous and so on. So to put simply, TMs are for pointing out what something is, and FMs are how to use it in combat/survival/dire situations.
tms also cover how to use the item on the right level like how to tune the radio or use the turn signal or put the m4 selector on safe. I am sad to say the last two people would still not understand after reading the manual. 11b proving darwin’s natural selection wrong daily since the roman legion. 11b is infantry if that was unclear.
Yeah. The CF doesn’t break it down like that. Manuals are manuals.
thats actually how i usually respond when someone mentions that movie. same with Wanted.
oh come on now, wanted is clearly cgi with there gunfights, there is no fucking way in hell you can get a bullet to curve as absurdly as they do or shoot the wings off of a fly because of an adrenaline rush, that’s all hollywood movie magic
Have to admit, I now want to see someone normal do exactly what Peggy says can’t be done. Bonus points if it’s gun-kata from a normal so highly trained they could be super.
Hard, rigid items make terrible shields. When struck with an object as hard or harder traveling faster than sound, the molecular structure just shatters. Want good cover? Nothing beats good old dirt.
The source video is from an absolute lunatic that’s getting ready for Red Dawn, but this shows how good a mound of dirt is for cover:
https://youtu.be/OiY80JgB26Q
Dense, pliable objects make for the best shields from firearms. This is why ooblek type materials are being used to construct modern armor. It’s easy to punch through a cinder block but a bag filled with sand will stop most rounds short of those fired out of the A-10.
*walks out, covered head to paw in sandbags*
This is the only way I would feel even moderately safe near that guy’s property. Strange fellow. Spends all that time worrying about Red Dawn, yet has no chainsaws or shotguns. What about the zombie apocalypse dude?
If you ever want to know exactly how well a car door protects from even standard munitions, see if you can still find some stills from the North Hollywood Shootout in California, a decade or so past. High power assault rifles going clean through, or skipping off asphalt into legs and bodies of police, while the actual officers had to head to a nearby gun store in order to get any sort of firepower necessary to match what these two were carrying…luckily the owner opened the doors, and told ’em to take what they needed…And to think, a few years later this place closed down cause the police thought they didn’t need body armor, or decent weapons…
Just a note, if you’re trying to be accurate Sydny wouldn’t be given anything with technical manuals in it, not as something she’d need to study now. She’d get all the applicable field manuals (FM), such as the FM23-35 (Basic field manual, Automatic pistol caliber .45 M1911 and M1911A1) or FM 3-22.9 (rifle marksmanship M16A1, M16A2/3 and M4 carbine) etc…
I don’t know if the US military has the range safety test with the multiple choice questions and some completely boneheaded options listed, but if they do I expect Sydney’s reaction to it will be very amusing.
But Max and Peggy want Sydney to begin with an understanding of how her gun is put together and operates so she has more appreciation of its capabilities and limitations, not just know how to point it in a safe direction and pull the trigger. So, since the requirement for her to get ammo is to know what all the parts are and where they go, TMs come first. It’s student specific course work :D
Also remember, Sidney’s a geek and a nerd. We geeks and nerds love knowing and understanding how things work. Hand any gun geek a new-to-them firearm, and within 30 seconds, we’ll be trying to figure out how it works, not just how to work it. I imagine it’d take a few seconds longer for Sidney, as she’s evidently new to the whole “firearms thing,” but the easiest and fastest way to inspire interest in her is to appeal to her geeky nature.
“Except for that Adrenaline Guy. He can totally Gunkata the shit out of everything. Just Gunkata-ing all over the place.”
No, starting with familiarizing the student with the parts of the gun and how to field strip, clean and assemble it is standard, that’s why the first chapter of FM23-35 is all about that.
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM23-35.pdf
Technical manuals would be what armorers or technicians use for references, or as guides when troubleshooting some problem, not basic information someone who never handled the equipment needs.
Basically, you’re just pointing out the difference between a Technician’s Manual from an Operator’s Manual. Even so, many Operator’s Manuals will have some level of technical information, especially when it comes to making a quick-n-dirty evaluation on why the operator can’t get something to work right. If the operator can’t figure it out from the Operator’s Manual, it’s time to hand it over to a technician…
Go back and read the last page, Peggy wants her to be able to assemble her weapon from a full strip down and name all the parts and their function as well as do a 30 sec field strip and reassemble. For that she needs the Tech Manual with the full exploded view and assembly instructions, not the Field Manual.
Don’t listen to her, Sydney, start firing and let Satan sort ’em out.
no good Satan will be with Kaos in a foxhole 3 klicks northeast shaking in terror till syd is not in combat before they come out to run the other direction.
Do we have a sense yet what the “Common” offensive/blaster powers of this setting are?
Some of the bad guys will likely carry guns to augment a less aggressive power set (e.g. Achilles would be significantly more dangerous if he had a nice ‘mare’s leg’/carbine to go with that invulnerability), but what does the 3rd draft of ArcSwat’s own in-house “superhuman threats and response” doctrine say to watch for? And honestly, if Archon (as lead agency) has an opinion, the regular military branches (and likely all armed government agencies) are going to want to get read in. They still have to fight holding actions until Archon can be notified and mobilized.
The most common hands down is super strength. Beyond that the sample size is small and exceptions are present, but energetic ranged attacks seem to be the next most common (heat, lightning, fire and so on). I agree as to your other points.
Oddly enough the most common type of offensive powers are probably not blaster ones.
Succubi have: Hypno boobs, lust aura and the most powerful illusions known in the galaxy. Plus possibly other sexual powers. The illusions may be magical, but they are referred to as being ‘succubus illusions’. Ergo, regardless of whether they are racially inherent super powers (ie not magic) or learnable spells, they are common to the whole species.
If the latter is the case then they have considerable flexibility, as presumably any of them might have the same range of spells as Dabbler. For instance including her sleep and forget spells. Although those could well be her unique signatures. Conversely, as she only dabbles, some Succubi may specialise as mages and illusionists and have vastly more spells!
Of course they might be denizens of hell, but equally they might be simply an alien species. Let us go with the latter, as the former is both less likely and we would have no basis for making any number estimates anyhow.
Let us guess they have similar numbers to us, per planet (higher tech, so could safely support more, fecund but probably less keen on exhausting their resources and going extinct) so seven billion inhabitants per planet. Whilst we do know that there are other alien species too, we also know that succubi can interbreed with at least some of them.
But let us assume that succubi are in a minority nonetheless. Equivalent to 10% of the inhabited planets. There could be many billions of those, in our galaxy, given that aliens clearly have star-faring capability, if they can reach here. But let us just say one billion that are presently occupied. So a modest one hundred million majority succubi planets.
Potential sexual super powers and illusion prevalence in our galaxy: 700,000,000,000,000,000.
Mind you, that is assuming that all the ‘demons’ we saw in Dabbler’s classroom are succubi. Which is possible given their illusion capabilities. Not to mention the potential for sexual dimorphism and mixed-heritage. However if succubi are a minority in a much more varied community, but one which has other racial powers, then the variability comes back.
Again, several of those ‘demons’ appeared to be hulking bruisers. Possibly that would equate to super-level strength. So super strength could still be one of the most common, even out there.
Or, to address the possibility of things going the other way, Dabbler could be the single most powerful member of her species (the only one on a par with supers) and the rest have considerably more modest inherent capabilities.
Likewise they might only be on the one home planet (with the odd, very rare, offspring on other planets. In fact Dabbler might even be unique in that regard. And the bruisers might be normal thug strength, rather than super. In which case, what we see, is what we get.
I wonder what Maxima and Hiro’s F.I.S.S. number’s are?
Since people seemed to like my other true story I’ll tell another.
Back when I was working a midnight shift at a 24 hr truck stop they were filming a “Cops” show locally and they came into the store. I like talking to people so I ended up talking to the two guys from the show. I mentioned the fact they had as much if not more gear on then the cops and one chuckled. They told me about a scene that never made it to TV. It seems the local police had stopped a car and upon searching the truck found a (if I remember correctly) shotgun which he pointed out to the cameraman. While talking about gun safety and the need to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction he picked up the weapon. Unknown to him the trigger was modified or in disrepair and as he pulled it out of the trunk he bumped the trigger and it went off. He did have it pointed at the ground so it struck the ground but it ricocheted and hit the cameraman in the leg. The guy laughed and said “And that’s why we always wear protection”. He pulled up his pants leg to show a small scar. Even when you think you are being safe and professional Murphy’s Law can show up and shit happens.
So true, that last.
At first I thought your comment was going the way mine does, when you see things like that. Cop chasing a fleeing fugitive, being slowed down by only his gun and his doughnut eating habit.
Film crew; cameras, sound boom and equipment, cables, heavy batteries, spare batteries, holdout pistol (just in case) and they are still expected to keep up!
Peggy should’ve added to that statement: “And that’s why these special interest groups are after out government to either change or abolish the Second Amendment or even rewrite the Constitution…”
Peggy should’ve added to that statement: “And that’s why these special interest groups are after our government to either change or abolish the Second Amendment or even rewrite the Constitution…”
Well such special interest groups aught to close down and stop wasting time then. If the only argument they can come up with amending policy (let alone laws) is that something is inaccurately portrayed on television.
The alternative, if their reasoning had any merit, would require shutting down just about every aspect of civilisation. And banning the outdoors and wilderness too, for good measure!
I just now noticed the Hot Fuzz reference. How did I not see this right away?
Equilibrium!!! YYYYYEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!
It’s the difference between cover, and concealment. A car door gives you a measure of concealment. Okay, sure, they can see you popping over the top every now and then, and your feet. But, you have a measure of protection just from them not seeing you completely. It’s kind of like that game Battleship. You can get hit anywhere you are. There’s no cover. But there is concealment…
And police cars aren’t armored in anyway special. In some high crime areas, I know they’ve talked for years about adding some bullet resistant glass for the windshield at least. What little training I’ve seen says to get AWAY from cars if you can. Because except for the engine block, nothing in there really stops bullets. And in fact, they seem to be bullet ‘magnets’ everyone wants to shoot at them.
I agree in principle. But there is a flaw in practice Car doors are designed to allow a human to enter and exit. They are human sized. But worse than that, they are the size that a human is, when sitting down. And the top half is transparent.
There is very little room to actually hide behind a car door. If you are behind it, almost everything that can be hit, when a bullet passes through, is you.
For your analogy to work, you would need to place your battleship and realise that is the chance of you NOT being hit.
It’s not horrible, and certainly better than nothing. The door provides some concealment by obscuring your own silhouette, and provides some cover against low powered weapons such as handguns and small game rifles. And being shot in the foot is usually not lethal.
I just caught Battle: Los Angeles and while I didn’t find it to be a particularly good film the soldiers did manage to take cover fairly well. I noticed that they typically used the wheels of vehicles for cover, which is fairly smart since a round would have to go through a lot more material (2 wheels, axle, parts of the drivetrain, etc.) rather than just 2 doors before getting to them.
The first shot is to the foot and non lethal, but hurts like… Getting shot hurts.
The SECOND shot is to the head that drops into view when the target falls over thanks to the foot injury.
As to doors for cover: a door may not stop much, but it can serve to deform the round, which lessens it’s lethality.
You missed that they e-mailed the login and password to the system he would need the login and password to access.
Picture if you will, Dabbler teleporting into Max’s gun, a self targeting/firing round of a non-material substance into Max’s gun, when Max pulls a ‘here, let me threaten you with my unloaded gun’ trick.
One might argue just what such a round could do (put the target to sleep, dismember the target, mystically bind it, etc), but it acts in a manner that is a mix of ‘too fast for super-speed to catch’ and ‘too immaterial for super-human to affect’. Making Max’s super speed ineffective for catching the bullet.
Sure, comic book physics would allow someone to move the target out of the way of an immaterial attack using super-speed. In the real world, hydrostatic shock from such a move would be fatal.
But eh. Such contrived scenarios are contrived.
It’s good to shock new recruits on gun-safety issues – helps them take safety seriously. It’s also good to have them not use super powers for providing threats.
“That Maxima wants to kill my entire city! She pointed at me, with her FINGER!” It’s good that normal every-day gestures not be associated with threats to kill cities.
Not sure how, but I got this post on the wrong page. Meh.
Yeah, its a shame how action movies aren’t realistic like superhero comics. :) Come on, lighten up, some stuff in movies and tv shows because it looks cool, not to say this is “realistic”. Must of the stuff you see in comics, shows and movies isn’t realistic right down to how the fictional world holds together. What’s so special about guns that they have to be treated with strict realism in a comic with superpowers (the most physics busting fictional constructs after pure magic)? :)
Well, for one thing, unlike super powers, guns are real, so it breaks suspension of disbelief far more easily, because anyone can compare it to real life experience/knowledge if they so choose.
For another, for better or worse, most people base a lot of their perception of the world at large on what they see in the media, knowingly or not. Combine that with almost universally inaccurate portrayals of extremely hazardous scenarios (weapon usage, fighting, driving, CPR, first aid, wilderness survival, jurisprudence, criminal encounters, romantic relationships, etc.), and you have people getting seriously hurt, killed, or screwed over because they assumed it worked the way they saw it on TV.
Obviously the relationship goes both ways, and people need to learn to think more critically about what sources they trust with which info. But considering that humans are riddled with cognitive biases and weak points that give them an immense handicap when it comes to reasoning, that most people are ill-trained in critical thinking, and that any sufficiently experienced content creator knows this, content creators are in a position of enormous power when it comes to influencing the beliefs and perceptions of the populations they serve. And you know what they say about power and responsibility.
+1
Superb reply.
Comment to Dave B. about car doors versus bullets in cop movies: Ever see the original Alien Nation movie? The scene where James Caan and his partner (the black guy, Tuggs) are moving in to bust the alien with the shotgun, and the alien starts blasting away–and each of his shots not only goes through the car door, but leaves a hole big enough to stick your fist through?
Yeah, the guy was using special ammo, but still, it gets the point across about soft cover (can’t see through, but can shoot through) versus hard cover (can’t shoot through). A much smarter move would be to take cover alongside the front of the car, where there’s a pretty good chance of a bullet hitting the engine block and stopping rather than shooting through the car door. And yeah, ducking behind a car door is a good way to get your feet shot, except that feet are a smaller (and therefore harder to target) area than center of mass or head, which is why most halfway trained shooters double-tap center of mass instead of aiming for extremities. Unless you’re using a sword, in which case you aim for chopping off limbs (broadsword, katana, etc.) or slicing insides of wrists/thighs or throat/face (fencing blades).