Grrl Power #323 – She’s got the touch… she’s got the powah!
Naturally Sydney has questions. Some of them will be answered on the very next page! I want to discuss her abilities here but it would be premature before the next page. Also I would make a Who’s Who for Vance since he spoke and was named, but all it would say is “blond and pretty” which… I guess is about as helpful as the one Ren got.
Telford Porter is actually a real Marvel villain. Guess what his power is? People with powers that match their given name is… it’s one of those things that seems cool when you’re making up your own heroes when you’re 10, but it really requires some strained logic when you try and carry those characters through into other work. The easiest way to explain it is that super powers are at least partially psychic/psionic/etc in nature and a person’s identity can shape them. Dr. Doom is fine. His powers have nothing to do with his name, and his villain moniker is literally just his name plus his level of education. Doctor Octopus slash Otto Octavious is a little more of a stretch. I’ll admit Maxima is arguably skirting the edge as she can “max out” her powers. I’ve mentioned it before, but in her original incarnation she was named Ultima, but I changed her name to Maxima because of her her powers work – also it immediately helped start to form her personality. It would be pretty inexcusable if her name was Max Powers, but come on, Telford Porter? That has to take the cake.
I realize after I drew it that Xochitl’s power key flowchart looks a bit like Sydney’s Orb Grid, that’s not intentional. I probably should have gone with something that looked more like a DNA strand, but too late now.
Holy crap you guys, A-kon is this weekend! It totally snuck up on me this year. As such I wasn’t able to sign up to do a panel, but I’ll be attending several of the webcomic ones myself. This year, instead of just saying “hey let’s try and get together” and hoping it all works out, I’m going to propose a time and a place right now. There’s a bar and grill in the Atrium II (the big main one) called Media, if you’re there and interested, we can meet up there at 8pm Friday. It might be too busy to actually eat there, but it’s easy to find, so we can at least coordinate from there. The easiest way to keep track of and communicate with me during the con will be via Twitter. I may try and wear my one Grrl Power t-shirt I have for easy identification, beyond that, my headshot is on the Patreon page.
Here’s some Maxima fan art for you. Max is kind of… I’m not sure if cute is the right word, but it’s close. It’s by the creator of Magical Girl Neil. I’ve only read a little of it, but the premise is a guy gets magic girl powers a la Sailor Moon. The transformation sequence includes magical gender reassignment, and the requisite hilarity ensues.
Today’s page colored by Keith.
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
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Apparently my name gets around. :P
So… does she still get powers when she touches a normal person?
…I don’t want to know what powers Ariana would give her.
Seeing as she states she potetially has 7 billion powers:
Yes she does.
Not at the same time of course but you get it.
Well yes, but I meant useful powers. Gaining the power to eat an entire bag of nachos in five minutes isn’t exactly useful.
You got a point but I’m thinking if she brings it up there’ll probably be a reason for it. Also she says every person unlocks her power in a different way which to me implies that yes there will be some kind of useful power. I guess we’ ll have to wait for the next update or whenever she tries to touch Sidney (as long as one of her orbs doesn’t interfere with it).
My real cuestion is: What is the “logic” betwen the “chosen” powers?
I’ll explaing.
When she touched Harem, she gained porting powers. Wich is the “same” power as Harem. But with Sudden Death [yea, that is “my Ren’s name”] she earned… Lightningflavor?
To de point. First you might think that she can earn a similar power. But maevy it is more like what she “senses” in you… Its hard to explain in english, sorry.
Not really I think I get what you mean. My own guess is not that different I’m thinking the power tries to get as close as it can to what the persons power or potential is as it can for example since its different powers the closes it can get to Rens adrenaline slowdown might be turning into lightning to speed up reflexes.
… that may be it. But then with no supers, What power does she take
She doesn’t. You can see in the image that each person goes through a different path on a map, meaning that her seven billion different powers comes from different combinations of powers.
I think you mistook my staitment. What I ment is: Ellert said that her power resembles the power of the one she touches, but with no touching supers, just “normal people” like Leon, she allready said what you what you wrote
Which would be what I tried to refer to as potential but I think Gamelycan got a point if you look at the Grid every hand would lead to a different startpoint at least and would go through different junctions thus creating a unique set of combinations.
Now in my imagination every person even normal people would have a potential power it would just not be anywhere near pronounced enough to actually give them a super power. But Varia’s power would still know where that potential was leaning say speed, strength, flight etc. and would unlock something accordingly
I was trying to say that there a limited number of powers she can choose from and those powers make a combination (the math term, combination and permutation).
Except, the comic specifically states that the power isn’t being copied – I think Harem’s unlock being televorping is just a coincidence.
But, how long does she keep the power after letting go , and, what power would she get if she touched a clone of herself?
Alekay: Imagine a locked container(box, chest, locker, whatever) that can be unlocked with any key. Now imagine that the contents of the container changes depending on the key you use to unlock the box. So for instance, if you had tried three keys(Key A, B and C) and found, in order:
A: a deflated red balloon
B: a 3lb chunk of dry ice
C: sheet of college-ruled notebook paper
With those three keys, you now have all the red balloons, dry ice and notebook paper you could ever want(assuming you were willing to actually open/close the container enough to bother).
Varia’s powers work the same way except she’s the container, her power is what’s in the container and every person is a different key(most likely due to each person’s DNA).
Interestingly enough, this is more or less how I always figured the Mutant Gene in the Marvel universe worked. The gene itself just causes the mutation to occur. What the mutation does is based off the individual’s DNA sequence(or something like it).
Since ‘mutation’ in Marvelverse happens without the X-gene (e.g. Peter Parker or Ben Grimm) I’ve always considered it to be a natural catalyst which lets you gain a mutation without extenuating circumstances (e.g. radioactive/GM spider or cosmic rays)
This is then also why the X-men powers tend to fit the individual’s personality rather than the situation that empowered them (since the situation is “being themself” rather than “poisoned or irradiated or on fire”)
Varia does specifically use a key analogy herself, so I concur.
And the bottom part of the drawing in panel 7 is a way of visualising those keys being mapped onto her power tree.
In which case though it should not be viewed like Sydney’s tree, where each circle is a power.
The seven billion number strongly implies one power per person. Whereas that graphic would imply that each person’s key could unlock multiple boxes (using your analogy).
So, to make those contradictions fit, it would have to be that it is mapping the various boxes where the key could be inserted into the lock. But it only turns on one.
Yorp: “The seven billion number strongly implies one power per person. Whereas that graphic would imply that each person’s key could unlock multiple boxes (using your analogy).”
Or…Even if Varia touched the same three people in a different order, she could manifest her power differently.
@Chronocidal: That is only partially correct. There were some mutants (like Multiple man) Who showed their mutant Powers sicne birth (in case of Multiple man he duplicated right after birth)
Also although you are correct on mutation part and it can be gained through experiments/accdients etc. What is defined as mutant is those WHO have X-genes. That is why specific mutant related powers and/or devices doesn’t work on Spiderman or any other mutated.
@Yorp: I think it is much simpler those lines shows some sort of ‘category’ of Powers much like Halo’s orbs and the dots under each represents unlocked property. Real question is ‘How long they stay unlocked’ I think it is not dissapear right after she releases touch otherwise it would be more like individual dots rather than lines. I bet there is a time limit how long she can keep them unlocked but if she unlocks things from same category they add up not actually makes Powers different just gives more or different options.
From Greenstalker: “…in case of Multiple man he duplicated right after birth”
What? Did the doctor drop him on the floor right out of the womb? Jamie’s duplication power is triggered by physical impact, ya’ know…
:P
Now now MidnightDStroyer, don’t make me have to slap you on the arse!
Firehawk, I guess that would depend on how you define superpowers, and where you draw the line… What about Math’s or Peggy’s abilities? Stephen Hawking’s intelligence? Ronald Reagan’s or Bill Clinton’s ability to communicate? Keanu Reeves’ acting ability (no, wait…)?
Gaining most of those would qualify as instant learning a la Rogue, which is in and of itself a super power.
Whoa! Potentially seven billion different powers? For all practical purposes though, how can she expect to feasibly practice to improve her skill/usage with so many different potentials?
O.o
Methinks Sydney will come in veeeery handy in suggesting possible uses for Varia’s powers at any given time…As long as she has at least a few moments to analyze what she sees Varia doing.
The powers of public opinion twisting and long range facepalm?
So the rainbow choker has nothing to do with her sexuality, but her power set.
why would it?
Yeah, the rainbow is not exclusively an LGBT symbol. Though yes, it has become strongly associated.
Being pretty much appropriated from Christianity, since the rainbow was God’s sign of His promise never to destroy the earth by flooding again and causing no end of irritation to Christians that use it for its original meaning and have to explain to people that it’s not on their car or shirt or what have you because they’re homosexual or support LGBT but because of its religious meaning.
I wouldn’t say that counts as it’s original meaning. Old, yes, but rainbows are a naturally-occurring thing so I’d expect that any culture from an area that has weather that produces rainbows would have some myth about it.
Also that particular story’s pre-Christian.
Good call on the Noah’s ark myth (and good call to Anvildude on the Bifrost, too). There are also many other myths, with diverse interpretations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology
Basically, it’s a big shiny thing in the sky that looks a bit like a bridge. Because it’s in the sky, some myths have it as a message from a god or gods. Because it looks like a bridge, some myths have it as a bridge of some kind. Some other myths interpret it as a serpent or a bow, because of the same curved shape.
The only thing that all of these myths share is a shared need to explain something that nobody understood before Newton described the laws of optics.
I’m sure Thor, Zeus, Set, Baal and Vishnu do as well :P
Actually, due to the tenants of my philosophy, I have to concur. Even Zeus has new age worshippers, that have re-established the faith, so that is a viable religion again. Plus it is growing at a surprisingly fast pace.
And he is the kind of god who likes unleashing the Kraken, on those who piss him off, so I ain’t gonna disrespect him! Especially as Greece is right next door to my country.
Interesting question though is how he chooses to manifest himself? Many today might visualise him like Anthony Hopkins. So it is possible that he chooses that out of convenience. But I wonder how many people realise that his original likeness, is actually even more familiar to them than Anthony’s?
It was on one of the seven great Wonders of the World. The Statue of Zeus. Considered to be the most handsome and perfectly depicted face of it’s era. And remained so even into the age where Christianity was starting to take over as the dominant religion.
Yet the Christian artists and artisans, of that era, could not produce a representation of Christ which was even a shadow of the Statue of Zeus. Which they solved in the expedient manner often taken by the Christian church. They simply replicated the likeness of the wonder, as best they could.
Yup, that fellow you see on the crucifix bears the likeness of Zeus.
So, next time you wish to kneel down before the idle, be very sure that you are directing your prayers to the one true God, and not a pagan deity. If that is your intent.
And recall the warnings, from scripture, about not worshipping false idols.
And even before that, it was the Bridge Bifrost, which the Norse deities used to travel the 9 realms.
To quote one of my favorite comedians:
“It’s weird how one group of people took refracted light. That’s very greedy, gays.”
I thought it was a Skittles thing.
To be fair, she -might- be gay, we don’t know yet.
We can but hope.
Now this might be an interesting question.
If she touches Sydney, does that mean that she can hold her orbs as well?
That could in theory increase the number of orbs used at the same time to 4. Depending on orb choice, that could potentially be, as they say “quite OP”.
Questions i find more immediate are what happens when she touches multiple people and does it have to be a person or is a part of them say some hairs enough?
That is very interesting. I now get the picture of a sample tissue holder with more or less than all Arc.
But other cuestion I have. How long does the power hold? Can she, for example, touch Harem at the begining of a battle and then go on for some minutes with porting powers?
And if a tissue can be am admissible part, For how long? And in what amount? If she can make it with a cell, breathing near someone can be a source of powers
if a contact unlocks a path, i would think that she could use it for as long as she is she is focused.
as long as she can keep it open, until the channel runs dry.
so, if she is distracted or knocked out, well, power out.
alternately, it could also only work for as long as she is in physical contact, which would still allow for some very cool powerstunts, but also place severe limitations on what could quickly become an OP situation
Yup. Seven billion potential powers. So vast potential. Say healing, raising the dead, time travel, shapechange and a host more. But limitations:
• If alone has no power.
• Can only use one power at a time
• Tactical complications through having to remain in physical contact with a gestalt partner.
The second one is an assumption–it’s possible that touching two people gets both powers, for instance. Four-person Twister yields three powers, and so on. She could thus get potentially as powerful as Max, but only by being REALLY uninhibited….
OTOH, trying to actively take advantage of that would simply escalate the difficulty caused by the third element. Multiple gestalts means multiple contacts being required continuously.
The other question would be how quickly she learns what she can do. If it’s instinctive, that’s very potent. If she can assess it in some way even just by looking at the person, that’s even more powerful. If, OTOH, she has to puzzle it out a bit, that could be more limiting.
An assumption yes, but an informed one. Based on this:
Xochitil is speaking of her power in the singular, as opposed to the plural. That is not to suggest my interpretation is the right one. I am simply picking up on what clues we have and running with whatever suggestions are thrown. We will find out more shortly.
I very much agree with the comments in your final paragraph.
The real immediate question is actually: Does she have innate control over her base power? In other words, does she actively choose to obtain a power upon contact with another person.
If not, she’s a massive wildcard and potential risk when it comes to field ops. Any person she’s not touched before could result in some sort of insta-on power that could prove extremely dangerous to anyone nearby.
Other, less immediate, questions:
Can she only obtain powers from human contact(dialogue suggests this is the case)?
Does she require a living “key”?
If she does not, what’s the smallest part of a person she’s been able to obtain a power from? Patch of skin, blood, hair?
Has she ever touched someone and gotten a different power than what she got from a previous contact with that person? If so, any known differences with the person between first and changed contact?
“Does she have innate control over her base power?”
based on the previous page, i would say no.
if she had control, there would be nothing wrong with a hand shake right?
Agreed. Getting what amounts to a random power should have some learning curve to it, at the very least.
Although it could be interpreted that it can just be alarming for the person involved in the gestalt. Possibly some of the powers might involve them too. For instance in the scene above both Varia and Harem teleport. Whilst the mechanics of what happened could be explained in a variety of ways, * it clearly did involve both of them, rather than just Varia on her own.
Hence a warning would be nice. Even if Varia does gain an understanding of the power when she uses it. Which, although an extremely powerful capability, would not be without precident (in general principle, rather than specifically). In that Harem gets a bit of precognition, in order to know if a spot is clear to teleport into it safely.
DaveB‘s does not give heroes intrinsically dangerous powers (not the ones on the team anyhow). They have whatever necessary secondary powers allow them to function as intended.
* Varia’s gestalt power, from Harem, might be a buffing ability. Enhancing other super’s powers. In this case allowing Harem to exceed her own power limitation. Perhaps by making it area of effect, or allowing it to affect others.
If so Varia could use that buffing power on other heroes. Granting Super Hiro’s flight to the whole team say. Or letting everybody absorb kinetic energy, by enhancing Anvil’s power.
Or the Varia-Harem gestalt power might be the ability to copy powers. :-D
In that case she chose to only copy Harem’s power, but could instead have copied Ren’s reflexes.
Alternatively some supers may just give her a gestalt power that matches theirs. Not all will have powers that match ones on Varia’s power tree, but those which do grant her the same power. If she only paired with individuals who did that, she would appear to be copying their power.
But, because she can also unlock unique powers, that is not how her power is working, despite the appearance to the contrary.
Hairs and toenail clippings I suspect will do nothing, but I can see where you are coming from, if she had a bagful of them. It would make storytelling for her rather bland. The other way at least requires her to get close enough to touch someone she knows can grant her a particular power. Especially interesting if that is a villain.
Other than that it will make her like a super arch mage. Who just needs to pick out the right material components, from her portable sorting tray, to have any power she needs, at any given time.
As to the first part of your question, we do have a couple of hints. One from the picture, under her, in panel 7. We see three hands, colour coded to match her power-tree. The most obvious way to interpret it is to take it as showing what she is explaining, that each person unlocks a different path way.
But, if looking at it to answer you question, you can see if there are points of overlap. Which there are. Clearly this is not conclusive as it is likely that even if she can only use one at a time, there may be duplicated powers. Say getting teleportation from more than one person.
Significantly, even if it is taken to be what you suggest, there is no point where all three overlapped. So she is not combining all into one. In that example anyhow.
The other clue is in the “seven billion potential powers”. Which very strongly implies a one-to-one ratio. Otherwise, even with a two (other) person mix, it would be seven billion times seven billion potential powers!
we don’t know that she’s copying Harem’s powers – Harem can vorp things with her… perhaps the power Varia gains when touching Harem is some ability to reduce or control her mass – thus allowing Harem to vorp HER.
I believe you are saying the 7 billion times 7 billion is using any two people to bring out her powers, but there’s certainly nothing to say that she can’t be unlocked by three or four or ten people (upper limit of… 20? 30?) at the same time, so of course it could be 7 billion to the 20th power(?)
I would certainly assume that her 7 billion implies getting/unlocking a power from any one person on Earth, but if combinations of powers create a new hybrid/mutated power, she MIGHT be referring to combinations of powers from supers – just a note – probably not what she means, especially since WE don’t know exactly how many supers there are.
“Harem can vorp things with her… perhaps the power Varia gains when touching Harem is some ability to reduce or control her mass – thus allowing Harem to vorp HER.”
Oooh, clever. I like that.
Yea, likewise, and just beating Here Comes Honey Badger to the thought, on page 2 of the comments.
But, even if Harem unlocks weight/mass reduction for Varia, it does not stop somebody else (or various other people) from potentially being able to unlock teleportation for her.
Ha, It’s seems we are doing a relay race :P
Or her power is to boost Harem’s innate capacity.
I too say +1 on the suggestion.
Why am I hearing the theme from Captain Planet? “Let our Powers combine!”
Harem can’t teleport people though, right?
Right, think about the meaning :P
LOL, I already used up my quota of Ben Ten jokes on Ren Ten cause of his name and now am faced with someone whos powerset is a MUCH closer match. Especially with comments suggesting she could walk around with a bag of DNA samples so she could choose a powerset from them as needed!
If I were putting her backstory together I would make her (wonder) power activation require direct physical contact with a living person. It is the interaction with the other person’s bioelectric field and her own that creates a unique resonance frequency or whatever. This unique combination induces the specific physical and biological changes in her physiology.
This could be explained as a genetic link to her Aztec ancestors who had similar but less developed powers. They required a more direct electrical connection to get the effect. This is why they needed to practice human sacrifice. Activation required them to grab the beating heart of their victims, an electrically powered organ.
This also keeps her character from getting too overpowered by simply carrying around a flip-book of hair samples from each member of the team.
I find it interesting that Varia unlocks a “random” power based on whomever she touches last, and that out of 7 billion potential powers, she manages to DIRECTLY COPY Harem’s.
Not a direct copy, she could vorp, but not duplicate,,,
I would be curious if Sydney would unlock a new powah for every orb and every orb combo…….
Or my favorite, what is touches FWTDT(For whom The Death Tolls), while fighting him….
“Not a direct copy, she could vorp, but not duplicate”
How do you know? :)
Anyway she said she don’t copy powers, so why to touch Harem gave her teleport of all things do is a good question.
does she gain ability to teleport? or maybe simply extends the range of her teleport?
on that panel they were still holding hands, and it would be rather weak ability, if she can only hold the power for as long as she touches the person.
Scratch “copy” and replace it with “based on”, and I think you’ll be closer to the truth.
Yea, that is a good distinction. A gestalt is something formed from more than one source. But is drawn from those sources. So whilst the result can be different there is no reason why it has to be.
The potential for hazard could be devastating. Think of Rouge’s power going rouge on her…
She managed to copy at least PART of Harem’s powers which just meant that Harem’s abilities were more compatible with the huge collection of preprogrammed super related DNA bits (or whatever they are) that Varia rearranges instinctively in reaction to a scan of the persons DNA.
I see no clone though which is probably for the best writting wise as I think it would be permanent and they would all have Varia’s power. Since Dave doesn’t like to go with the usual tropes where reversing a power/curse/whatever leads to the thing it caused just going *poof* when the logic behind its creation wouldn’t support that at all.
Mind you, however it is happening, she does appear to have teleported. If I were there I would suggest that she get training from Harem in how to use that to create herself extra bodies. Which should persist even without the power remaining!
She could be lacking the bits to make a required secondary power for the cloning part. Especially if she no longer has access to to those bits because she had to already plug them in place to make the teleporting work. Maybe the required bit is a mind capable of seeing itself as being in two places cause it is capable of being in two places. Then there is the possibility that she makes related powersets but at HER power level not theirs meaning it just can’t stretch as far as a stronger super even if she can come close to copying a power. (and not being AS strong in some key areas could prevent stable clones from happening)
Be rough if she DID find a trigger to get one of herself to stay behind and turned out to be lacking the required secondary power of the overmind link. Meaning the clone would believe itself the original and being completely autonomous (no link) might for whatever reason proceed to make another clone until there are so many of them running around that her uniqueness goes way down (never good for job security, character popularity or Arianna finding you marketable) and she keeps tripping herself up as each of the many “originals” tries to claim the originals life for themselves. (if they have a significant other……………………… )
Mostly though it probably won’t happen for the writing reasons. Dave has cleverly found a way to “copy” powers while at the same time not treading on his other characters uniqueness and usefullness cause the related powers are not the same and sometimes aren’t even enough alike to truly function the same in specific situations. Why ruin that by allowing her to become Harem lite? And teleporters and portal makers presence seem to greatly increase the number of fan theories as to what Dave’s characters “should” have done in any given situations. (frankly I think Dave’s love of wonderous variety in an individuals powerset is making himself a writing nightmare as he gathers more and more characters that can do such a wide range of things plus power stunts!)
Sydney herself has no powers. Using an orb doesn’t require a power, they require some sort of permission/password/etc to activate. Now the question is: Does using an orb change Sydney enough that Varia gets a different power based upon the orbs that Sydney is activating?
Interesting and something I see no possibility of speculating about until she tries it in the comic.
But here you imply that a normal person wouldn’t give her a power that she could use.and if that was the case I’d find it werid that she’d say potentially 7 billion powers.
Sydney cannot separate cannot separate from her balls.
Balls respond to her commands and move as she wants them to.
She felt the power of the PPO when she used it int he desert.
as far as we know there are already some permanent changes done to her since the very moment on the reef. As the “connection” with her balls is artificial, and not something she was born with, my guess is that she cannot copy it.
however, if she could, copy it, the balls are probably smart enough to recognize “the original” through “biometric” data as well as “chronopositioning” and other sci-fi words.
I think most of the changes would be on the orb side of things though they may have placed some “markers” in her to help some of the powers work by being able to track her precisely etc…
“Sydney cannot separate from her balls”.
Am I just being a pervert, or does that sound SO wrong, on SO many levels?
Maybe we should use “orbs”. It’s at least marginally less perverted-sounding.
About as perverted but at least now it matches Sydney’s gender better. *thumbs up*
i am sorry, but i am not capable of stopping it.
Sydney’s balls forever.
I will be greatly disappointed if Dave does not use this train of thought in the comic somewhere.
My mind welcomes your mind to the gutter.
Unlike Sydney, I can be separated my balls, but I would very much prefer not to…
I think you meant “separated from my balls”.
In fact, you reminded me of one of the jokes from a Sierra adventure game called “Freddy Pharkas, Frontier Pharmacist.” Among the items for sale in his store (you couldn’t actually add it to your inventory, but you could click on it) was:
“The I-Can’t-Believe-It’s-A-Jockstrap testicular supporter. It lifts and separates…”
I prefer to thin (that in DaveB’s world anyway) every person has a potential for powers and that the ones showing them are the ones expressed enough to be noted. Penny Bender man may be able to telekinetically reshape any small copper/zinc materials but would hardly blip on the radar. If everyone has a template, her power could be to boost it and echo to her own self. They might not even realize she boosts powers as those that have them already have control and would not automatically try them while she is –and those who don’t express on their own can’t find the “on” switch anyway.
+1
i would argue that Sydney’s ability to curse is a devastating power. And don’t forget her tongue-fu abilities.
And Sydney would be murder at the bowling alley with her skill at the 7-10 split…
I don’t…. I don’t understand what’s happening now.
You’re not alone. I’m totally lost.
Yepppppp. Me three.
to put make it easy to understand, she can copy powers of whoever she touches, and it seems that the powers don’t have to be awakened yet.
now that i butchered the explanation some angry mob (or observer) is going to angrily explain how wrong it is, and pls do, someone has to and i have other comments to read.
She specifically can’t copy powers.
She gains (possibly temporarily, possibly only while in contact) a new power for each person she touches.
With Harem it copied/equaled one aspect of her power, with Ren it was completely different.
Gladly!
Some of us think that Varia gaining a teleport while touching Harem is just coincidence. Varia’s description of her gestalt ability is that she gets a specific power for each person in existance she touches, but not necessarily related to any powers that person may have themselves.
Hmm… guess I failed on the angry part. Oh well :)
“now that i butchered the explanation some angry mob (or observer) is going to angrily explain how wrong it is, and pls do, someone has to and i have other comments to read.”
Do… do I really sound angry when I do that? I didn’t mean to… :(
when i put the “or” in there, i meant it to separate you from the “angry mob”.
i was sure that you would show up at some point but i did not intend for you to be in the blob, so i named you separately, in the bracket.
i am sorry that i made it look like “also known as”, it was not what i aimed for.
observer: well i am sorry for misunderstanding.
R: no i am sorry for my bad writing.
observer: no pls accept my apolodies
R: …
…
…
…
everyone: pls forgive me!!!
for some reason “sorry” is the only word on my mind right now….
I was being humorous. People rarely laugh. My humor requires more work…
You actually meant “me”? Cool, I comment too much and sometimes search the page for my own name (after checking for word of god the same way) so I can quickly click through as see if I had a response. As such I often bump into people simply using the word observer instead of Observer and sometimes I can’t resist replying to them in a comedic “mistake” of identity. I am very flattered you actually considered me when crafting it.
I am reserving judgement. So far.
Imagine a shape shifter whose abilities were too weak to make them look like anything at all but they could kind of look a bit like most things and almost exactly like things that aren’t too far from their base form/look.
Varia is the genetic powerset version of that. She can “power-shift” to other genetic powersets whose components are similar to the multiple powerset genetic prefab components she has within herself very well making an almost copy of those powers but if their powerset requires components she just doesn’t have anything like she mixes and matches (unconsciously) what components she does have available to make something vaguely related. If they are vanilla human then her genetic scan of them would probably cause her to “shift” based on a genetic ability of theirs that is somewhat defining as it probably ignores gene structures that are fairly “normal” to all humans. She’d probably get something in response to Sydney’s ADD as not every human has that and Sydney seems to have an interesting version of it which she almost uses like a “power” from time to time. If you were a smarty she would get something related to smarts, if you had powerful pheromones she would probably get super pheromones (even though your’s aren’t that strong as a normal human). Stuff like that.
I realize you probably have a very good idea of what is going on and making a joke based on the last comic but I explained all of this cause… everybody else was taking you seriously….
So what happens if Varia grabs an orb? Does she gain a power or a headache? Or does nothing happen?
I’m voting both.
Oh man what if she touches Halo and an orb and that gives her a different power? 7 billion + 7 powers!
Somehow, I don’t think Varia touching the orbs would do ANYTHING.
Halo’s orbs seem to almost ‘not exist’ in reality, while having an effect in reality anyway. They’re ‘indistinct’ – I think if Varia touched the orbs, she wouldnt get anything from them. It would be like she’s touching nothing.
I think it depends if they are made out of something like genes?
We know that Varia has to touch people to get her gestalt power. The fact that she believes her upper power limit matches the population of the planet indicates she knows she can get a gestalt power even from normal humans.* Further it indicates one power per person, maximum.
Which implies that she is not forming the gestalt with the power, but with the person. Otherwise she would probably have said that she had more than seven billion power possibilities, as every super would give her multiple different options, unless they just had the single power.
So she should get whatever kind of options she normally gets when touching Sydney, as she does with any regular person. If the orbs are just devices they should not grant her gestalt powers at all, unless cars and aeroplane do too.
But, if she can get gestalt powers from the orbs, then that would give clues as to the orbs nature. One power, regardless of which, yet different to the one that Sydney grants her, would have one set of implications.** Versus one power per orb having another. ***
* That number would, incidentally, also exclude animals. But that might just be because we know how many humans there are, but do not ask ants to fill in census forms.
** The seven eyes of Cthulhu manifested to observe Earth.
*** They are unhatched dragon eggs. What do you mean “how come they can fly around her head?” All dragon eggs do that!
the closest person to her powers is duplicate boy of the legion of superheroes but Duplicate boy has to only think of a specific power, not touch a person, and I don’t know if Savia can decide what power is triggered when she touches someone with a power(I am guessing she does not get power by touching Sydney and there is no biological reason for her to get triggered powers by the orbs)
I had thought the closest was Synch from Generation X
oh, another similar would be Rogue, but Rogue absorbs powers temporarily but if not careful the mind of person she touches and the powers indefinitely (like what happened to Ms Marvel)
You know what an even MORE similar character might be to Varia?
Black Alice, from DC comics. Except instead of copying powers, she steals them (and only from magic-based characters). But the basic idea’s the same. IF she’s near a magic user, she can steal their powers for some limited time (the more complext the power, the shorter she can hold onto it – she was only able to hold onto Spectre’s power for 5 minutes but was able to hold onto Wonder Woman’s powers for an entire lengthy fight and then left while still having those powers. Guess ‘punching stuff and strangling people’ is easier to understand than ‘controlling the fabric of the universe as Gods Right Hand’ :)
Anyway… if there ISNT a magic user nearby, she can still take powers, but it becomes a ‘random’ power from some random magic user somewhere on Earth. Maybe hat’s how Varia’s powers work? If she touches a powered being, she can copy their power. If she touches a non-powered being, she gets some random power.
That would be interesting.
Not so close. Ord Quelu, Rogue and Synch DUPLICATE superpowers. Xochitl expressly stated that she DON’T copy powers. Although Harem’s case is curious Xochitl said that each person unlock HER power in a different way, and she included all persons in the word, no only supers.
Hehe. Captain Tripps from the Wildcards series without the eclectic mix of pharmaceuticals…
More like a faster Croyd Crenson, you never know what she’s going to get until she’s got it.
Kamala the empathic metamorph from STNG episode “The Perfect Mate”. She used her power to read the desires of men and alter her persona and, from the outside anyway, apparent abilities (like she seemed to become more intelligent if that’s what the guy in question liked) to match the woman that man was most attracted to. Well, it was kind of suggest she actually changed the most before permanent bonding which might have some sort of permanent change to her actual available abilities. Luckily she bonded permanently to the good Captain who liked extremely intelligent and capable women so she was able to use her remaining empathic powers to fake bonding to another man (political thing) because the final mental form she took because of Picard’s tastes was so highly functioning she could pretty much still fake anything like she could before the locked form.
So mentally, prebonding, as a mental shapeshifter she reminds me of Varia as a powerset shifter.
To a lesser extent it reminds me of Inuyasha’s sword Tessaiga. It kills stuff. If the stuff is powerful enough the sword gains abilities related to the thing killed. Sometime it is very close to one of the powers the the being had and at other times it is merely related. Like it “killed” a demonic barrier erecting crystal focus and instead of gaining the ability to make shields/barriers it gained the ability to bring them down or pierce them. (it gained related barrier manipulation instead of barrier creating)
It also hasn’t been confirmed (yet) whether or not Varia can keep a power for some time & touch another person to further modify the first power. How long can she retain a single power? Does touching someone else “cancel” the previous power in favor of the new one, or does the second power act like a “merger” or “modifier” of the second power?
If that’s the case, then Varia’s potential would be more like 7 billion powers, raised to the power of 7 billion!
Isn’t Maxima’s given name Maximillia? Still fitting though
Nominative determinism
Of course there’s a hashtag: #nominativedeterminism
Also known as an aptonym.
I like it the most “namephreaks” :P
so 2 Qs,
1) does she retain powers or is she gonna have to fight in hand-holding mode to retain powers?
2)what happens indeed, as David Nuttall already asked, if she touches an orb. Nothing because they are not people? because touching sydney would just make her immune to spicy stuff I bet :D (or ADHD cursing war monger ninja wannabe)
Does the tissue she touches have to be alive?
Sydney’s body is potentially infused with spice so maybe she gets human torch powers or the ability to breath tear gas.
Three words:
Ring. Of. Fire.
(Worst superpower ever.)
Sydney has that one already.
Nah, clearly spice leads to blue eyes and psychic powahs.
Maybe her name will become a word of powah?
Every time I see it written as “powah”, I keep hearing the pre-fight speech for the WoW boss Archbishop Benedictus…
“There is no good. No evil. No Light… There is only POWAH!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSc8N6-zjxw
Well this raises an awful lot of questions.
is the power the same for everyone person in the world? as in,will touching Vance always make her metal? if so, that could get tricky trying to remember what each individual team member does for you in the thick of battle.
Seems like that’s how it works. Ren will always give her the lightning elemental power set. Vance = Colossus, etc. etc.
In panel 7 it is shown that she has a map for her power. One person gives one power, another gives another, and each person added changes the end result. She only became metal when touching Vance because she already touched Harem. If it helps, think of it like this: Harem=1.1, Vance=2.4, Ren=3.6, just Harem=1.1, Harem+Ren=4.7, Harem+Vance=3.5, and Harem+Vance+Ren=7.1.
Very possibly. But if so then DaveB has gotten the maths wrong. Seven billion powers is one potential power from each person. Yours would give a very different number.
I am trying to stick to this point, until we learn more next page anyhow. As it is one of the few strong clues that we have, which allow us to figure out the scope of the power. And it gives a very defined (implied) limitation. To me, anyhow. One power per person. Which does not vary.
But, there is one fly in the ointment, with trying to do that. The power tree, in panel 7, shows each person having a path within her power tree. Each having multiple nodes. Which does rather support your hypothesis. Especially as there is a point of overlap on at least one (plus several arguable touching points), where precisely that could be happening.
It would make her powers incredibly dangerous though, if she has extreme variability on what power she gets. At least the other way she need only fear finding her H-Bomb power the first time she touches somebody. Rather than every time she creates any new pairing.
“But, there is one fly in the ointment, with trying to do that.”
Maybe not, Who’s Who say “Gestalt: gains a different power or set of powers…”. Maybe the common nodes are “set intersections” and your theory stands.
Except if it’s just a ‘different set of powers’ how come does she copy blondie’s powers and Harem’s powers? Seems weird that ‘random’ powers all the time would still manage to copy the exact same power of the people she touched. Unless she can control exactly what power in the world she wants each time she touches someone?
Vance’s we don’t know and Harem’s see this.
They should make a superhero who’s name is Magnus Netford, and his power of course is….
Shapeshifting into different animals.
Perfect. : )
Supervillain: “I’ve planned for you, MAGnus NETford! This entire room is made of superhard plastic, and there is nothing magnetic or metallic at all in here! Now I will kill you with these wooden weapons since you’re helpless!”
Magnus turns into a dinosaur and eats the supervillain.
“Did I mention my middle name is Animo ?” <>
bwahahahahahaha:)
Sydney’s questions may include… Can she control whether or not she gains a power? Does touching a new person overide her previous power? How much of a person does she need to touch? (I.e. could she have like, a book with a bunch of strands of hair pressed into it that would function as a power catalog?) What happens if she touches two people at the same time? Is there a risk of getting a really shitty power? Like just being super radioactive-or something that just makes her turn into a popsicle? How long does she retain a power? If she found a power that turns animals into humans, could she have even more potential powers? And finally, for maximum sillyness, if she were impregnated, at what point would her child give her powers?
That last question… that’s one I hadn’t considered. Bravo.
Ditto. And potentially a serious problem, if she has no control over her power swapping when she touches someone new. Given that, if the baby does count as touching someone, she would only have access to whatever gestalt power it granted her.
Unless she gets to pick, when more than one person is touching. But then, even if the power normally remains with her until she next touches someone, the instant that she lets go of the other donor, she is now just touching the baby and looses the other power.
Interesting question indeed.
So, touch random person=receive random power? Am I reading that right?
I think so
Basically yes. The one thing I would add is that I don’t think the power gained is “random.” I think a particular person will always give the same power.
Absolutely. Or at least that is the most workable option that I prefer. Do note that the power tree in panel 7 though shows a whole network of potential powers for each person touching her. However I favour interpreting that as being the code that makes up her power. A bit like the combinations of DNA that are used to give us any given attribute we have, such as eye colour.
This is supported by Dave saying that he wished he had depicted her tree like DNA.
So each person, in the population, has a ‘potential power template’ of what powers they could have. But, for the vast majority of people, whatever it is that unlocks those powers is inactive. Be it something genetic or a weird accident that triggers it. However the potential is there. And, in supers, it is active.
When Varia touches someone their template is compared to hers, and whatever overlap there is, forms whatever power she can now use. This is similar to combining genetic code from a mother and father to form a child. But without randomly selecting the characteristics from their heritage.
Varia has latent teleportation powers, and Harem’s template incorporates teleportation, so unlocks that.
Presumably she lacks super-reflexes (or at least ones that are similar in nature to Ren’s) but the overlapping parts of their power-trees instead form lightning powers.
I bet Arc-SPARK love poking her to find out how super powers at large work!
Kind of reminds me of Monster Rancher.
And now we have a new kind of duck duck duck duck goose game at HQ.
Private McPherson to the medical ward, Varia needs to regenerate a limb.
Corporal Schafer to the garage, Varia is working on the Hummers.
Arianna, Varia needs your special touch to clean windows.
Depending on the usefulness of the power, the pilots and staff at Arc could be filled in with people who “react” well for Varian…
And one evening she shows up at Dabbler’s room: “Hi, I’m going on a date tonight. Do you mind if I…”
aaaand cue the music…
Grrl Power After Dark has a new entry…
She would never leave that room…
Strictly speaking it should be Mr. Doom, given that he never actually completed his doctorate. Funnily enough, Reed did finish his and yet his codename is Mr. Fantastic.
But I guess when you’re the king of your own country you can just give yourself however many honorary doctorates you want.
Strictly speaking it’s Doctor of Doom! Phd in Villany. But he dropped the “of” for Reasons.
He has over a dozen honorary PHDs from the University of Latveria!
I haven’t yet run across the particular reference that would indicate that Victor had his “accident” before actually obtaining his Doctorate degree. The “project” that messed him up could have been performed post-Doctorate…
ok so apparently people were not paying attention everyone is asking about certain people and the powers they would bestow specifically sydney. xochitl specifically stated she does not copy powers so therefor it is reasonable to assume that the powers she gains from a person doesnt necasarily relate to said person. for instance when she touches Ren she turns into the blue energy thing which as far as i can tell has nothing to do with Rens superadrenaline.
I dont think she copies, but unlocks a derivative power, related to the original power… the blue energy thing could be be simply a visual cue to lighting as it appears instantaneous..
which begs the question, what does Varia get from Jiggawatt?
She can change her hair color like a cuddlefish changes their body colors.
Not too many fish that I would like to cuddle…
Oh! You meant Cuttlefish, didn’t you?
:P
You DON’T just want to hug them??
With all those tentacles? In marine biology, cuttlefish hugs YOU.
Well sure, to see me is to want to hug me.
I’m predicting an awesome seen where she fights a group of bad guys and gets into a crazy power-juggling combo.
Actually that raises a question: Does she automatically know the mechanics behind/how to use each power she gets the moment she gets it? Or does she have to spend the first hour or so getting the hang of each new power?
automatic knowledge? Now THAT would be a superpower!!
Yea, she falls into the category of potentially ridiculously over powered already. Adding in omniscience…
Eh, not really since she could get any vaguely related powerset the author needs her to get in order to not overpower her enemies. It seems like her little genetic prefab power “bits” (interchangeable powerset components), however many of them there are, are limited in what they can do so while she may end up with stronger related power when touching norms or weak supers she probably will be weaker than a strong super she touches. If her related powersets are always of a power level based on Varia’s middling power level than she isn’t really overpowered.
Her greatest power would be the confusion and distraction her constantly shifting powersets would cause. But if she doesn’t gain some level of usage knowledge with them then she confuses herself just as much as the enemy unless she sticks to just touching her own team. Not having knowledge of whatever power she is toting now would greatly weaken her power while having it, if her power works the way I said, would still leave her manageable to those of the upper tier like Maxima etc… Pretty sure our fashionable fabric manipulator could whip her arse in most scenarios as well since his power is very versatile and it would be darn hard to touch someone who controls clothes if he figured out your power. And then if she did her “related” power may not be as strong or as versatile.
Confusion to the enemy seems like her greatest power in a straight up fight and that works best with her knowing her own abilities as she gets them.
Very soundly thought out, and possibly right, in general principle. Both Maxima and Halo are very powerful, but have their own limitations. So DaveB does balance things, and that seems a reasonable intention.
One thing does spring to mind, when reading your comment though. Sydney’s argument with her games master about Kopy Kraut not getting any power stunts, when copying the powers.
Whilst Varia is specifically not copying powers, she is gaining new ones, that she has not used before. So also gaining basic understanding of them allows her to use her powers safely (the same as Harem can with her precognition before teleporting). But it would not allow her to use those powers with as much finesse as somebody who had been practising them their entire adult lives.
That said, her powers have such vast scope, that the learning curve might be a vital part of that balance. There are huge gaps in Arc-SWAT’s capabilities. Note how exited Maxima was to hire Sydney just for her true-sight power. Varia can plug every one of those gaps.
Forensics? She could cover that with a bunch of options – talking to the rocks, or the dead or plants or animals. Or postcognition. Or picking up the vibes off things. And so on.
Interrogation. Telepathy, divination, enhanced hearing, sensing emotions etc.
Travel. Teleportation, flight, burrowing through the earth, planar travel.
I would think it a fair balance, to have a steep learning curve, in order to offset having seven billion powers. Although it would limit her to having useful capability with the aid of allies. And random, hard to control stuff, with enemies. But, heck, that is still an option if the ones your allies are granting are not helping.
I agree and believe in another of my (damn many comments this time around O.O” ) comments I said no power stunts unless she has Sydney, or a more experienced user of a related power, whispering in her ear. So yeah, no power stunts known just basic knowledge like turning it on, “aiming”, a warning feeling when use of a power would kill you or all others near you directly, just enough so you can attack and or defend a bit with it immediately. Nothin’ much beyond that which would require training or experience beyond the “wahooo! I gots powers!!” self discovery phase.
ARCDARK representative wanted her for that power I think. Not Maxima. Maxima wuved the shield though.
Well, to use that huge scope of powers they have to find the right individual to unlock it. I’m sure they will be bringing all those with the right clearance, norm or powered, by to touch her soon. Kind of think their will be some category of powers that simply requires a super being touched to unlock. I’m not sure how to define it right now but I’m sure we will see a pattern like that.
“I know Kung Fu”
It’s not like there’s no existing precedent already in comics for gaining an understanding of a newly-gained power; if you’re familiar with some old DC comics that featured “Dial H for Hero” stories…
I can understand how you find similarity in the look of Sydney’s Orb Grid and Varia’s Gestalt Grid. To be honest I thought you had made it look like the Sphere Grid from FFX. Intentionally, to be funny.
It is funnier that you seem to have done that entirely by accident.
I presumed they looked alike because we’re seeing everything from Sydney’s POV.
FF? wasn’t that path of exile?
but then again i never played ff so what do i know.
I wonder what Dave would have made had he realized the desire to make it look more DNA’ish earlier?
How would you draw a spider web of DNA that is constantly shifting around its connections? (or whatever makes sense to him?)
The implication, if Varia has a power tree, being that, whilst it may appear that she has billions of power combinations, in practice she only has a limited number, and it is more a matter of finding which of her powers is unlocked, by any given person.Actually scratch all that. DaveB actually says
Which is a very different beastie to a power tree. So the nodes are just points on a flowchart, probably representing how she interacts with the person she is forming the gestalt with.
Some go down one path, due to having one type of power. Others go down another. So all normal humans probably start on the ‘has no super powers expressed’ path. And then explores the “does she have latent powers” route, and so on.
I’ve been comparing it to genes and such but I guess when you say flow chart and nodes like that it makes me think of a programming language. Where Varia ( I expect most of us will be using this name for her from now on… ) is filled with powerful “commands” (genes) in this language that can be arranged in many different orders for creating a viable “program” (powersets) and scanning a humans DNA variations somehow can be converted into keywords (ignoring parts of it more common to all humans structure) that summon up these commands in order.
Some sort of “debugging” is done on the fly to toss out elements that make a program unviable (powerset is dangeriously out of control in someway or kills the host)
Seriously… That is the coolest most unique power I have ever seen.
So what happened when she shook hands with Dabbler? Was there a runaway feedback loop, and how did they break the link before it reached critical mass?
Probably nothing, since 7 billion potential powers doesn’t seem to include aliens.
He he. Nice call. And possibly it is limited to humans only. But, given that Varia has to touch someone, in order to gain her power, it is reasonable to limit her power estimate to the number of people on the planet. Until she can find a way of touching people on other planets, anyhow. And one Dabbler does not significantly change the population of Earth from seven billion.
you are assuming she is aware of them, or can contact them.
7 billion is about how many people there are on earth.
the could be trillions quintillion aliens out there, but why would any of the visit earth?
… well dabbler was actually filmed on camera in… her “battle form” but we dont know if varia has seen the news.
also damn, we have 2 Vs now…
“Hiya Halo, I saw footage of you at the cah pahk battle last night”
Probably.
ok, so we do know that she has…
uhm… I CAST DISBELIEVE!!!
Well, 2 V’s make a W, so I guess that’s what Varia would become if she touched the other V…
Does her uniform involve extra big shoulder pads and a resistance to extreme temperatures?
Ah! Now I can’t do that joke. Knew I should have made it before reading the comments so I could claim plausible deniability…
…er-I mean: Good one!
Not if her commanding officer disallows it…
as for the naming thing that is why i like one of Wolverines origin stories as to where he got his name…it was a joke because he is short hairy and mean as hell and the commanding officer at the time was explaining to these mutants how the best weapon is the one your enemy doesnt know you have (after meeting banshee)
But that’s a nickname/codename. Varia’s Xochickita- ^_^’ is her real name.
And here I thought blondie was a woman. Oops.
You were not alone with that it was discussed in some of the previous pages comments at length.
Pleased to see that DaveB has followed through with his stated intent of butching him up a bit. It was just an artistic style (anime), which lead to him looking androgynous. When in the company of characters in a more realistic style anyhow. Which is not the intent, as presumably, other characters in the story will not react to him as being effeminate.
My question is, how long does she retain the power? For example, does she HAVE to be touching the person to use the power? Or does it last for a set amount of time after contact? And can she use multiple powers at once? So far, Xochital reminds me of Mimic from X-Men, who could copy the abilities of everyone within a set distance of him. Apparently, because he spent so much time with the original five (Cyclops, Iceman, Pheonix (known then as Marvel Girl I believe), Beast, and Angel), he had permanently copied all five of their powers. Can Xochital do that if she remains in contact with someone long enough or often enough?
to be fair IIRC Mimic’s “copied” powers were about half as powerful as the “Original”. He couldn’t fly as Fast as Angel for example (although that may be because Angel also had a skeleton with a bone structure as much avian as human) or have Jean’s telepathic range.
That’s gonna get complicated….
Congratulations to Scottostanek who had the closest call ;)
Party buffers would make for great additions to the team
Sort of. Normally buffers buff other people. In this case other people buff her. :-D
But, you did say ‘closest call’, so that is reasonable.
However I would actually say the commentator who said that it has nothing to do with her name or heritage deserves credit too (especially in light of the mini-comic). Albeit that they went on to detail something specific.
Agreed, but that is more tricky because all the commenters that predicted a non related power were implicitly claiming the same, being the first BlackIkarus
Yeah, everyone knows that Dave likes to twist the tropes but its hard to base guesses on the fact that Dave is going to try to ignore the usual logic (tropic or regular) and come at you from left field. And guessing is fun.
I will go ahead and say that having her powers be vaguely related to her name would not be that bad in this case cause:
1) Her last name is a passed down name from her bloodline.
2) So if her powers come with her bloodline or she was chosen to receive said powers because of that bloodline then it makes some sense that the name the first and more “in the know” members of that bloodline chose or had chosen for them was based on those powers.
3) I mean I think having the potential to be the avatar of a goddess could very well be a bloodline ability and it makes sense they would get a special name from the goddess to reflect their elevated status in the community their bloodline comes from.
Any other guess I made would have been totally random based on her rainbow choker and a “V”. (as evidenced by my earlier guess)
Gotta love those color shifting feathers by the way! Is she like the Wizard of Oz “horse of a different color?” They change colors even when she isn’t manifesting a powerset. Interesting…
Some feathers do catch different shades from different angles. But nice catch.
Oh Oh! What would happen if she touched Sidney!
Discuss!
Pow!
Reflexes.
Super ADHD!
Linguistic Diarrhea!
nothing as the orbs block varia’s ability and she stats freaking out about it. lol
Am I the only one who doesn’t get what “Gestalt” means? I even tried to look it up. Too many too confusing results to understand what DaveB was referring to.
Shachar
Gestalt psychology is probably the best gist of the meaning. Just with the psychology taken out and applied to super powers.
:-D
Note in particular the famous (if often mistranslated) phrase of “The whole is other than the sum of the parts”.
It might not have the same meaning exactly but in this context I kind of think of archetype instead if only because Shachar has a point and at least the definition of Gestalt psychology can be hard to understand.
Gestalt is one of those terms that became popular without became understood and so it was often loosely applied.
As Yorp said Gestalt Psychology is the original use that give the term notoriety, and in that context was hard to grab for people in general (not that the related philosophy concepts were a lot easier :P )
“The whole is other than the sum of the parts”.
Right, but that is more related with the more generic and empirical concept of “synergy”.
“Synergy” design a phenomenon while “gestalt” design a being. A gestalt is usually seen as more than its parts but it’s not necessary, it could be just different.
A committee could have synergy :)
…or more likely, a committee could have dysergy
A gestalt psychology is usually misunderstood to be more than its parts. A point made repeatedly by the guy who came up with the concept. It simply is different to the sum of it’s parts.
But, yes, when you take that word away from the original concept, and apply the misunderstanding, that has propagated into general usage, you are correct. Which version DaveB might be using remains to be seen, but the original is still viable, as at this page.
Err…
As almost every word “gestalt” has transcended its original scope over time, thus nowadays no all other uses are misuses. I was talking about the general concept.
Also if you take my whole phrase what I was precisely trying to say is that “more than” is NOT part of the basic concept.
Maybe my other posts could help as complement to the one you reply.
Yea, I was being overly pedantic there. It was just that particular turn of phrase leapt out as being what the conceiver of the term campaigned against. So felt it worth pointing that out. But, as my concluding paragraph indicated, we are of one mind.
Our debate has formed our consciousness into a gestalt mind! That is just a bit more laggy than each of ours individually. And lacking any bits that we fail to contribute to the gestalt.
And that makes my realize that I misread your original quote as “more than” thus my reply o_O
*sigh* My bad, sorry.
All is good.
:-)
Another way to put gesalt into context is that it also refers to the melding of multiple minds through telepathy…This example has been shown quite a few times in comics. You might also say that the Vulcan Mind Meld is a form of telepathic gesalt.
A “gestalt” is basically a being (not a thing) that is formed for the combination of multiple others in a way that is not directly determined for their individual co-function.
It’s NOT cooperation.
For instance, a committee is not a gestalt, a multi mind is.
I think this is the better definition I could find:
Merriam-Webster.
“something that is made of many parts and yet is somehow more than or different from the combination of its parts”
Think of a team of players, with each contributing something. That’s a kind of gestalt.
*nods knowingly*
Knew it! If she touches me she will turn into a velociraptor.
With me a Sexier version of Jubilee. Sending explosive and coloured blast from werever she desires
That sounds… awkward. And messy.
…especially if she extensively snacked on Skittles first…
Would each Harem unlock the same Gestalt power or a different one?
They’re all the same person genetically and they all share a single mind so no matter how you figure it they would all give the same power.
Agreed. And they all have identacle powers, to cap it all off.
Scientists in the Grrl Power Universe do not know what causes super powers. So presumably it is not simple genetics, otherwise they would understand it. We have seen what I take to be Maxima’s brother spooking her by blowing up a bag behind her, resulting in her blowing a hole in the wall. He looked like a normal person, rather than a super.
So possibly there might be identical twins, where one has powers, but another does not. Hence me making the point about all of Harem having the same powers. She managed to retain them for every body she created.
It would be interesting to see if she always got the same power when touching twins mind. And to find out if there are any twins with super powers. Mind you both are rare, so there is no guarantee of that. But it is a big world, so the statistics may well be in favour of it.
Also, the quesiton of what happens when she touches two people is still undecided, as well:
1: Nothing–the two cancel each other out. This would make an interesting power limitation–she’d be vulnerable to getting dog-piled in combat.
2: Single Power, Determinant–this could be based on which one has a larger contact surface, order of initial contact, or any other variable.
3: Single Power, Preference–she gets to choose which power to manifest, possibly even switching between them at will.
4: Dual Power–she gets both individual powers.
5: Power Gestalt–she actually gets a new power, based off a mix of both gestalts.
5 is unlikely, assuming she’s done any level of experimentation at all–as Yorp notes, the ‘7 billion’ number she gives has specific connotations of a 1-1 relationship. I just included it for potential discussion sake.
Now, for each of these, twins raises an additional question. If touching twins/triplets/etc individually produces the same power, then there’s no real alteration to whatever the Multiple Touch rule is.
However, if identical twins produce identical results, then…
1: Possibly the same as touching one of them, since there’s no reason for ‘wave interference’.
2 or 3: This is just like touching one of them.
4: This one either has twins producing the same effect as touching only one, OR some sort of power-boost (linear or even geometric or exponential). Ie, touching one twin lets her produce a flame-stream, but touching two lets her do either a hotter flame, longer range, or both.
5: Again, included for completeness, but this doesn’t really operate any differently than 2/3, either–touching both twins gets a gestalt power.
Well thought through.
2.4 Single power – random. Equal chance of triggering either (or one in three if three people in the dogpile etc).
That’s definitely a sufficiently interesting sub-variant on #2 to be noted explicitly. The other determinants could mostly be manipulated at least some of the time. (FREX: If it works on a “Last Person Touched Wins” rule, then taking her hand off the first person and putting back on would re-swap to that power.) But totally random means she can never actually choose it at all. Good catch.
And since its a related power rather than a copy she might have gained something Harem doesn’t have even while she “lost” the clone ability. Like maybe hers allows small living passengers? (somebody really short and light weight perhaps?? With glasses? )
This must make sex a little awkward with some people. Or impossible. Can you imagine her falling in love with somebody, but every time they make physical contact she turns into water? Inconvenient. Or worse, bursts into flame.
Anyway, I totally called the bit about her name/heritage having nothing to do with her powers.
Some people are probably into both of those.
Or maeby she fall in love to someone whos power is been inmune to fire and when she touches him she became fire.
Or she became water when the person she’s having “relations” with can breathe underwater.
Sort of the powershifter version of “Hey baby. What’s your sign?”
*touch*
*gains a hard to control banshee voice for few seconds destroying a nearby kiosk*
*touches someone else quick*
“Oooo yeah, sorry babe, no love for you… “
Wow. I would be terrified to have that power.
1: She doesn’t know what she’s gonna get (maybe.)
2: She doesn’t know she’s always going to be able to control it.
3: Not all powers are good.
What happens when she bumps into a grocery store clerk and starts radiating an incredibly deadly and contagious disease? Or turns into a Lemming and is too stupid to know how to turn back? Or, you know, turns into a black hole and destroys the Earth.
i don’t know about that.
she may gain some gravity power, but it would ever be quite as dramatic as a “black hole”… i mean, there are limits right?
I am with Andor on this one. Maxima can create a mini-nuke, without even pushing herself. Ergo we know that Varia’s potential is within the H-Bomb range, from that alone. Black holes are every much a natural phenomenon as nuclear fission. So there is no reason why they could not be replicated by super powers. And she has seven billion chances to find the way of doing that!
Plus doomsday powers are very much a theme in the genre. Unless she Varia has some way to predict her power, or understand it, before using it, it is incredibly dangerous!
Personally, if I were the Archon health and safety officer, I would insist that any touching be conducted well outside of Earth-orbit!
Probably the things making it usable will be defined on the next page.
Like it only produces powersets the user can adjust/control (like firestar not having to burn stuff or be on fire all the time)
And she probably knows how to make it work at least as far as its basic features and how to turn it on and off. Advance usage would still take experience and power stunts would require consultations with Sydney. In fact she should stick near to Sydney. Their variety of powers, general ability to cause confusion and Sydney’s collection of power stunt ideas would make them scary as hell together.
And lastly the new powersets power level will most likely be defined by Varia’s power level: say somewhere in the mid range of ability. Instead of the power level of the person she touched. After all she gets real super powers from touching normal humans so that’s halfway to showing her powersets “level” is based on her level not the normal human’s level.
You’re assuming gamist ‘balance’ mechanics apply. And while from some things he’s said I’m fairly sure Dave maps out characters powers in Hero System stats that’s no guarantee of anything. It’s pretty easy to break things in there, the rulebook even gives tips to GMs in evaluating powers that can get crazy. And “Uncontrollable” is a perfectly valid disadvantage.
Or for a genre reference remember Croyd the Sleeper from Wildcards? His powers changed every time he woke up. Once he woke up as Typhoid Croyd, unwittingly spreading a new and contagious form of the wildcards virus.
I was going to say that I based my ideas not entirely of gaming principles (though I’ve played enough video games I’m sure it slants my logic) but on writing ones. If Dave wants this character to be a viable member of a super team and a team that is run by a government military branch that tests things and evaluates them for suitability for use on the team that they must have checked out her powers enough to be sure she could function usefully. Out of control dangerous possibly team and bystander killing random powers or randomness just aren’t worth having around on missions for such a team.
I was going to say that but then I realized that Sydney got in with minimal testing so I may need to adjust that a bit. So lets say that Sydney is an all time record for minimal testing/questioning done before admission to recruit status cause of the press conference and such but that actual full testing is done DURING the recruit phase. If that is so then maybe they just did enough testing and questioning on the REST of them to BELIEVE they could be a useful member of the team and probably wouldn’t have their powers turn on and hurt the other recruits randomly. (hopefully for the first bit they test them separately for safety until they are mostly sure)
So I have to admit you are right that she could have uncontrollable powers. In which case she might not be able to be on the team after testing and training shows that too be true. Her powers would not only be unsafe to use around people but their randomness could harm the team or scrub the mission if she managed to come in contact with the wrong person ( a weakness that would be exploited as soon as the villains stole or gathered enough information about her).
So now we have two options:
1) Dave writes her so they have a reasonable idea that she or they can control her powers in some way. Or at least prevent her from easily gaining random “unknown” powers by placing her in a suit of some kind all the time. (so they would actually be planning on preventing her from fighting by gaining random powers which is kind a bit more boring from a writing standpoint but then this story isn’t supposed to be about the fights… *shrugs*)
2) Dave uses this as an opportunity to write a not so bad “bad end” for all of us to enjoy. She is sent away from ARC and told not to use her powers near civilians or with people who’s unlocking she doesn’t already know ever again. And that would be a legitimate thing to write. Deep and moving if done write. And making ARC SWAT seem much more realistic in their challenges to getting team members and in their reactions to problems like this.
So I guess you win. But I’m kind of hoping it doesn’t go that way cause I really like this character being 1) more dynamic and 2) on the team.
Oh I’m not saying she shouldn’t be on the team. This is a book, not a game, nothing truly random occurs, all is as Dave desires.
I’m just saying if I had that power I would be … nervous.
As far as her power being turned against her, I suspect that the base activation of her powers at least must be volitional, or the thought of her riding on a Tokyo subway for example becomes kinda terrifying. It’s only what the power becomes that’s a crapshoot.
It appears we now have two members of the team that have the same nemesis. Mittens!!
For a moment I read “kittens”
The nemesis of every cat-lover is a kitten named Mittens…
She didn’t say it was only hands. Varia might need the whole body stocking. A very large wet blanket might slow down her power absorption for however long it takes to get out of it.
Talk about being the “wet blanket” at a party…
I’ve been trying to do something similar with the comic I’m writing. The characters names have nothing to do with their powers.
Holy cow on a cracker, you’re going to A-kon! I’m bummed you won’t be hosting a panel, but you’re making me want to re-work my con-schedule so I can stalk you.
Let’s pretend that didn’t sound super creepy, ‘kay?
So, what happens when Varia touches Dabbler? And does she have to actually be touching the person? Because now I’m wondering about her keeping a bunch of vials of hair from different donors.
That’s actually a good question as Dabbler is not human. Would she even gain any power? How does epigenetics tie into her powers?
Whether she gets anything from Dabbler would give us big insight as to how super powers work. Likewise what happens when she touches normal people, including Math, versus supers. With Sydney being the most interesting intermediate, of course.
Dabbler’s quite the mutt. If she has any DNA, for Varia to scan, that comes “close enough” to human for her powers to kick in.
What I’m wondering is if she touches FWTDT will she implode?
Death Tolls only had nemesis powers – in that he had the perfect response to any ATTACK. Just touching him would not activate his power, you had to be attacking.
So, when she is touching FWTDT, she will gain his ability.
NOW, if she ever encounters someone who cancels out another’s power (as their power), when she gets within the range of their power, her power will be cancelled.
There is no paradox here, no streams will be crossed, there will be no protonic inversion.
Depends on how the cancel power works. If it’s continuous then it would stop her from copying it. If it’s activated rather than static it’s possible she could copy it, but there still wouldn’t be a paradox. She would just have the ability to cancel others’ powers.
It was a bit of half thought out humor (yet more evidence piles in that I’m not “internet” rated funny) that actually required her to be able to touch him and derive a powerset from doing so. The half baked idea was that she can create a huge number of different powers limited only by the number of people/maybe-more out there and he can create a huge number of different powers limited by how many kinds of “attacks” there are in the universe – so trying to come up with a powerset similar to his powerset when its so similar to what she has would cause her to implode (or something amusing anyway).
Now that joke number 623 has died I will point out that she doesn’t copy powers she seems to use whatever resources her powers have available to make something similar or related either in nature or function (not enough data yet ). So there is a sort of random element to what she might get from touching FWTDT so part of the implosion would be her power trying to “figure out” how to make a version or relative of this “not copying” power as wide in variety and scope as her own (probably more so). So yeah, either absolutely nothing would change cause her power is already “related” or maybe something amusing…
Actually the joke would probably have worked a bit better is she was a copy cat power?
I’m in on A-kon meetup at Meida as well @ 8 p.m. I’ll either still be in my costume and carrying a briefcase while wearing a Genesis Driver or will have changed to street clothes and be carrying my Lightsaber for the Friday night rave.
Either way see ya there.
In answer to what happens when she touches someone who cancels out powers:
Index get annoyed and bites Tōma Kamijō
that was a good one.
You do remember only his right hand has this effect right? so something could happen… maybe he would lose that ability… and his luck would return!!! or… nothing would happen.
That is one of the things that we know, from word of god, that does not exist. Something that generically cancels out powers. Although there could be specific cancelling. But, in this world, typically you need to find a way of opposing a power. Rock to paper. As opposed to making the rock cease to exist (or temporarily vanish).
in the conference it was said that there is no KNOWN universal inhibitor.
where was it said that there will never be?
i am sure there is someone with ability to lock down sustained powers, but its a different matter with passives.
but then again, if there isn’t then it wont be a big loss.
Law lvl powers are bs.
That is why I mentioned word of god. Dave clarified that it was his intent, for there to be none, as he found nullification powers to be a cop-out, that diminished story telling. So I would be very surprised to find it introduced.
By the way, what the hell people? Not a single Metroid reference posted yet?
Uh… I bet she’d look good in a suit?
Weak. It’s hard to make a decent reference just off the name Varia.
Oh no wait, shit, I got it!
Clearly the Aztecs were secretly Chozo.
Panel 7 on #322 subtly agrees with you…
“Zeterai June 1, 2015 at 5:40 am
Does her uniform involve extra big shoulder pads and a resistance to extreme temperatures?”
Please read through the comments carefully before you doubt our collective reference powers!! MUWAHAHAHA!
Huh, did I not say one? I was sure thinking them loudly.
Okay does this mean she’s Kopy Kraut? lol
Heh. Kopy Kraut combined with a Wand of Wonder maybe. On a certain dice roll you end up copying the power. For all other rolls see Weird S**t Table of results.
GURPS has a “Game Balance Random Effect” table that can be applied in situations like pushing random buttons on an unknown alien technological device & what-not…
Perhaps, if zee krown vas damaged?
Probably Rouge
Now I wonder if she has a kind of soulmate that unlocks every path and part of her power at once.
That would likely do a very very short date :P
More likely, it would mean the end of Dave’s comic.
Pretty sure each component can only be used once in the link organization. Then that module is tied up expressing its part of the power chain according to the new order. Like DNA. Its like she gets to recreate herself genetically, a little like some versions of parthenogenesis (with a blender? LOL OK not very much like partenogenesis) with every shift but once that DNA gets used to make blue eyes then that is where it is in the chain till the next split and recombine.
Can she turn it off when it might be distracting? Does she pick her boyfriends/girlfriends based on how her powah reacts? And also many other questions too, as well.
“So Varia, how did the date go?”
“We got on like a house on fire”
“Oh?”
“Yea, it took half an hour for the fire brigade to put it out. Still he has a flaming good kiss!”
“So Varia, how did the date go?”
“I got the cold shoulder.”
“Oh, what a jerk. Are you OK?”
*looks at her funny*
“Um yeah? He has third degree frostbite on his right hand.”
“So Varia, how did the date go?”
“It was quite a shock.”
“That big a surprise, huh?”
“No, we blew out 3 power transformers and a substation.”