Grrl Power #318 – Now she looks… human!
The “officially because the materials weren’t ready” line is my oh so clever way of covering my own butt for not having designed these outfits earlier. I originally had planned to have the team in variants of Maxima’s green outfit with the leather trim, but the more I thought about it, the more I wanted them looking more like actual soldiers, so I’ll have to come up with a reason they have the green and brown outfits. I think it was a paramilitary outfit that Maxima liked to wear that got slowly adapted into the teams outfits until the Q-vex stuff was ready. Or maybe those are their casual patrolling outfits, whereas the one Sydney’s in now would be what they put on under their vests and tactical gear when they’re going door kicking.
The pattern on her outfit is based on the “Scorpion W2” pattern that will be replacing the digital one we’ve come to know over the last decade or so. Apparently the digital one has some issues in certain environments. It’s too bad because it looks nice and distinctive, whereas the Scorpion W2 kind of just looks like the old green and brown forest cameo with slightly different squiggles on it. Of course “looking neat” isn’t the point of camo at all. Except in the case of Arc-SWAT it kind of is. They’re military, yes, but they’re not going to be hiding in bushes waiting to ambush patrolling supervillians. (Ok, Peggy might.) They’re cops, and they’re supposed to be noticed, but they’re also supposed to look military. This outfit was the compromise they came up with.
On an almost completely unrelated note: Did you know “The Old Man” from Robocop also played Grigg in The Last Starfighter? I was surprised when I learned that but now I can’t not hear it.
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An airtank is actually pritty clever Sydney
Rebreather would be enough and lighter
I’ve never been diving, so my knowledge of SCUBA gear is pretty limited, but any rebreather units I’ve seen were all pretty bulky still. A custom unit that doesn’t need to capture exhaled breath would probably be ideal as all that’s really needed is a CO2 scrubber. An O2 tank isn’t going to do Sidney much good if the CO2 levels hit the passout/lethal mark anyway.
The idea could be casually tossed to Dabbler. The we would be able to get something that not only supplies Sydney with plenty of air but scrubs for exhaled CO2 and monitors her environment.
You wouldn’t really even need a mask. Just something she could press a button on while in her shield that would recirculate the air through the CO2 scrubber.
Go Go Gadget Rebreather Unit on ‘The Utility Belt of Stuff’ !
CO2 lvl is irrelevant if she doesn’t breathe that air. she would breathe in directly from the tank and out to the shield.
the problem is air PRESSURE.
ordinarily, I’d agree with you, but as Sydney demonstrated at the press event, she can shift the size of her shield significantly without changing the air pressure within, so adding air to it shouldn’t have any effect either
thats a good point. I THINK, while it’s expanding its in flux, and letting air pass through. Which would be how she can expand it to include people Which would mean in case of gas attack, changing the size might screw her.
That said, I’m betting when she gets finer control, and or another dot or two, she might be able toflicker the shield in such a way as to refresh air without sacrificing protection.
Very possibly. But we do know that its default state is for it not to be air-permiable, so we do not have anything to support that hypothesis. The same result can have been achieved (at the press-conference demonstration) by it simply being raised in the embiggened state.
If Halo does have to do it that way, then it means she has a vulnerable period in which the shield has to be down, whilst she pushes the embiggener, on the Forb, before she can raise the shield again, in it’s large state.
Regarding the fine-control, yea, Sydney has a shed-load of upgrades yet. And that is a very likely option to have been incorporated, in one way or another.
Yes unless the shield releases excess pressure a pressurize tank would increase the pressure inside till “Pop goes the Sydney” or more likely pressure psychosis and even if that was avoided she get the Bends when she dropped the shield. There is probably some control on the Shield Orb to deal with air but Sydney doesn’t have a clue how to find it.
Some reference. https://courses.kcumb.edu/physio/adaptations/diving.htm
The shields not air tight or Syn would have had issue much faster then she did most likely its just rather dense so air is exchanging but not at a rate that keeps syn from running out of O2 after a while sorta like being wraped is a really thick blanket..
I think that the length of time she went, before feeling faint, was not an unrealistic duration. She had a fair amount of air and was not exerting herself heavily.
Using example 3) in that link, plus assuming NASA-type duties, she had enough air to keep going for a surprising 1.5 hours. Assuming that the shield enclosed a cubic meter of air around her. Which is not an unreasonable guestimate, in my opinion.
And, although the battle seemed to last for many months, it probably did not take half that time, if that. Halo was likely feeling light-headed from carbon monoxide poisoning, well before running out of air.
Of course an air tank, or pony tube, would still be a good idea. As she will not always be able to stand around and conduct minimum energy activities, in a fight. And I am sure that taking a hit, of uncontaminated air, works wonders, even if you are starting to suffer from toxins building up in the air.
Carbon monoxide is unlikely – there wasn’t a source of incomplete combustion in there.
Yea, please consider carbon monoxide to read carbon dioxide.
Since DaveB himself confirmed that shield is airtight the argument is invalid anyway but it makes sense.
Great. One more thing for Sydney to be embarrassed by.
Later, on a mission we hear:
“Pbbbbbthh!”
“Sydney!”
“Honest guys, it was the shield!”
My guess is that since we’ve had one orb, the flight orb, with a “required secondary power” ,it creates a weak shield effect against air/small particle friction/impact, that it will over time be revealed that all the orbs have some required secondary powers to make them user friendly.
With the shield orb I would think that it provides weak life support by somehow gathering oxygen and heat/cold (yeah I know cold is just absence of heat this is just my way of saying it attempts to block dangerous shifts in temperature like say being in an oven or space). You still run out of breathable air at the same rate but the shields shape/expansion doesn’t effect your ability to breath. If you did something stupid like expand the shield, with the thought that it makes more air, and then made a fire you would run out of oxygen very fast. (though when she passes out the shield probably drops so if there is air outside she would probably be OK’ish…)
Could be those are some of the points that come pre-spent in the orbs skill tree or they can be enhanced with same. (basically like she is choosing defense/ease of use over attack/power when she levels [if she ever figures out how to communicate with it enough to know what those point summaries are….])
Woha! back up a bit there…
I don’t think it’s been shown that the flight orb has any secondary power. If you look back to the time Sydney and Max flew away from the press conference you will see that she’s holding both the flight orb and the shield orb while Maxima is guiding her to the artillery range. I can’t remember any time when it’s been shown that Halo has been flying and using a shield of any sort at the same time without holding the shield orb.
That bit is word of God, rather than in comic. If you check out DaveB‘s comments (probably somewhere in the Joy of Flight comments page, but I do not recall, for sure, if that is where it was), you will see that he specifies that the Fly Ball does provide basic protection for flying.
So Sydney will not have a problem from air-buffeting, bugs in the teeth or minor inconveniences, such as having her hair flapping into her eyes, or her clothes being torn off. :-(
But really high speed flight (probably including that depicted in said comic page), will indeed require the force-field.
Thanks for clearing this up. So no ram feeding for Sydney then? There’s parts of the world where a few low swoops could have provided her daily dose of protein…
Oh, and this comment system would be really dangerous if there were a search function…
Google has it’s all-seeing eye on us.
Mind you that particular comment is referenced so many times, usually by me, that you will still have tons of pages to look through, even using that. Unless you can convince it to show you the oldest one.
If not, it is probably easier to do that particular search the manual way.
Probably cause it doesn’t provide complete protection against objects as large as birds hitting you at that speed?
Guys… it’s comic book powers. Physics only apply in as much as they are useful to the plot. Overthinking super-powers just points out how unworkable they are.
And every time we do it, another faerie dies!
*cries*
*Starts clapping hands together*
C’mon, get up off the floor, dammit!
“Grabs a defibrillator ”
CLEAR!
Remember comic page 1, where overthinking powers saves the day…
As has been shown it was not over thinking it was the voice of EXPERIANCE talking.
So the Flight Orb provides built-in protection against wind buffeting, bugstrike, birdstrike, etc. during flight.
But it STILL makes a lot of sense to have the Shield Orb up as well, especially when going “Pedal To The Metal”. Just in case. There may be things the Flight Orb’s “Deflector” can’t cope with – such as collision with buildings, large aircraft, etc..
The shield does not have negative air pressure effects. Sydney sort of talked about that when wondering why her ears don’t pop when she adjusted the size of her shield.
Mmm. I had completely forgotten that. Which also implies that Sydney has actually made the shield bigger, whilst it was raised.
Which, in turn, does actually have quite a few implications for the various discussions here. Not least of which being that the shield may actually create air when doing it (or become porous, as another commentator suggested elsewhere).
Although Sydney was suffering from Carbon Dioxide poisoning and the resultant fuzzy thinking associated with that, at the time. So it may not be wise to read too much into what she said then.
It’s possible that the shield doesn’t actually move itself when it enlarges, it more “flickers” into a larger size; if it “flickers” in small increments quickly enough, it would give the appearance of growing, but still not reduce Sydney’s defense. This would equalize the air pressure without compromising defense.
The issue with a rebreather despite what you may see in action films is that that still come attached to a full set of apparatus or even mask unit, they aren’t these tiny pen like items you see 007 clamp on his mouth. They have to be very carefully calculated and obsessively watched. An average of 1 in 5 units fail in some ways which and can lead to hypoxia and carbon dioxide build ups and even death.
Actually they make a mini rebreathers that is good to about 20 feet look up EOBA it has been around for about 20 years now. They work fine as long as they are maintained properly.
Eastern Ontario Basketball Association play their games underwater? Dang that must be a tough sport. Do they have to push the ball under the net, at the bottom of the pool? They must be pretty strong swimmers to counteract it’s buoyancy and take it that deep!
Although, I guess they could put weights on the swimmers. But as soon as one of them lets go of it, then you end up with the ball on surface, yet the players still twenty feet under water. It would not make sense!
But if that is not the arrangement, and they put the nets at the surface, then the ball will just float up to the surface. Thus there would never be any need to use the rebreathers and go underwater.
And it would not be underwater basket ball, but surface swimming basketball. A completely different sport!
Water Polo?
No, that’s surface swimming soccer (football to you non-americans)
Yeah found that as well when I was searching for it what you want to look for is EOBA rebreather they are used mostly in Japan for sports diving in the range we normally snorkel in. they never really caught on here because you can’t use them at depths great than 20 feet the system doesn’t work right below that. Looks like a hose with a mouth piece and a canister in the middle on the back. The canister holds the material to scrub your breath the hose acts as a container an there are two little air cartridges on the front.
For a link to what it looks like.
https://www.therebreathersite.nl/Zuurstofrebreathers/Japan/eoba.htm
Interesting, thanks. Most of the results that come up seem to be very bulky. But I guess those could just be hits on normal re-breather images. However the top few are indeed pretty small systems. Ones that I could envisage feasibly being packaged in a Tubey-sized container.
And the one limitation, being the pressure/depth, would not be a problem for Sydney. Given that the force field would be as good as a submarine hull for protecting her from pressure.
So pretty much a perfect solution.
Mmm, mind you, there is still the problem of where she would keep her basket ball?
In the tube where she keeps all the other balls.
Indeed Yorp, nearly all mine also came up as large bulky items. I had never seen any image like the one on the site.
A diver using one. Although you do not get a clear view of her back, you can nonetheless see there is no bulky equipment there. And, when you see one laid out on the floor, you can see why not.
I think the pressure problem with the EOBA system is mostly that it doesn’t really have a way to add air volume – just increase the pressure to surrounding pressure so you can push it in and out. Around twenty feet down you’re getting close to two atm of pressure, so your lung volume just halved if you’re using an EOBA system. You’ll have trouble breathing – you aren’t getting [i]enough[/i] air, even if it was the same amount as you had on the surface. (This from just looking at it – it doesn’t look like it’s doing much more than allowing you to breathe back in the air you breathed out – but at current pressure. Which is fine if you want a short-trip system, basically an easier to use snorkel.)
Sydney is unlikely to face that issue – she’s in the air, at sea level or above, so the volume will be fairly constant, especially if she’s facing people who need to breathe themselves. If ARCHON has to engage underwater they’d be smart to give everyone a full SCUBA set anyway, just in case.
Their Resident Succubus Inventor has access to HammerSpace. No reason she can’t build a small portable version for others members -and it would be the perfect way to store it.
Nooope. Dabbler doesn’t share her tech, remember?
+1
She doesn’t share her ADVANCED ALIEN tech. a small, belt pouch stored rebreather/air scrubber mask would simply be an advancement of things we already use
Things which are in our own capability to make she would expect us to make ourselves. And, if as stated by another commentator, a rebreather cannot be miniaturised, by our current technology, then it would be introducing something new.
Just consider that the silicon chip is the way we found around making computers smaller, than when we were using valves. And see all of the long-term changes to our society that have come about because of that introduction!
It is wise for a member of an advanced culture to be wary of introducing technmagic ill-advisedly. It can have all sorts of unintended complications.
There is NOTHING humans currently make that we cannot theoretically make smaller, in some cases much much smaller. We can make functioning V8 engines that fit in your palm, electric motors that fit inside pens, drills that can core human hair, not to mention the fact that smart phones are as big as they are primarily for screen size battery convenience and durability.
Also, there have been lightweight and compact rebreathers since the mid nineties. They used to be really expensive, but even if they still are, I’m sure archon can afford ONE for Sydney.
Actually silicon chips are rapidly approaching their finite limit. Not the theoretical one. The one beyond which they cannot be made any smaller and still function.
Of course we are exploring alternative ways of making computers smaller than that threshold.
But there is a big difference between ‘theoretically’ and ‘practically’. If everything that we could theoretically make could be turned into practice we would already be using fusion power. And we have been trying to do that for decades, without success.
Make the IC chips into IC cubes.
We’re already making multi-layer chips, but there’s current technological limits there that still leave us working with chips. A proper IC cube would be worlds ahead of any chip in most practical measures.
actually we’re rapidly headed into Holographic computing
Actually the next step is carbon based chips they are already making headway on this and should have working system sometime in the next ten years. They are still working out the kinks like how to make graphine chips at anything less than a thousand degrees which they did a few weeks back.
Hmm. Although it’s true that if you build in three dimensions, you can pack a larger number of transistors into a smaller space, there are some very big problems with this plan. For instance, the limiting factor on how fast a given PC processor can run is governed by the heat it creates while running, and the willingness of the user to risk damage in seek of power. If you build a computer as solid cube, traditional cooling methods will become ineffective and you’ll be limited by how much power you can put in without causing overheat. That said, there are still a number o things you could do with the extra silicon real estate that could make the computer better at different things. You could expand the cache to several gibabytes. You could add smaller sub-processors and Application Specific IC blocks for managing peripherals and handling certain tasks that benefit from specialized processing (such as video encoding). There are a lot of things you can do, but since there is a limit to how small you can make a transistor, there must be a limit to how little energy it can run on. Since there’s a limit to how fast we can remove thermal energy from a volume of space, this leads to the conclusion that there is a limit to how many transistors you can have active in a finite volume of space and still be able to remove all the heat.
Plus, in a 3-dimensional world, printing 2-dimensional things is way, way easier than printing 3-dimensional ones. Of course, if we could find a way to expand our printer into 4-space, it might just make things a lot easier. Or a heck of a lot more complicated. But more interesting at any rate.
*hands Rms2000 a 4-dimensional computer*
Here is one I made earlier. I threw in the ability to function in the time-dimension too, absolutely free. So, the pedantic could call it a 5th-dimensional computer. It can go forwards, in time, at one second per second.
It comes complete with 4th dimensional keyboard and monitor. No extra charge! And a 4th dimensional array of access ports for all your other peripheral needs.
With Windows 10³ pre-installed.
Enjoy!
There’s always more effective ways to cool computers than a fan blowing air. Actually, the last I read about multi-layer chips the limitation was less operating heat, and more a question of how to accurately lay n layers of chip atop each other. Little imperfections in the first layer would affect the second layer. Additional imperfections in the second layer would be added to affect the third layer, and so on. Get enough imperfections (or just bake one pizza in the chip oven) and the additional layers won’t work.
About Yorp’s multiple-dimensional computer:
It sounds a lot like how the Douglas Adams described how the new Hitchhiker’s Guide functions in Mostly Harmless. One of the side effects of how it works includes the publisher being able to make only ONE Guide & sell it billions of times to all of those poor-by-definition hitchhikers…Because it operates on so many dimensional levels, it can literally appear to (potentially) an infinite number of people at the same time & tailor it functions to each individual & how they exist/perceive the universe.
It literally was the “End of Story”…
The really high-end supercomputer of today are liquid-cooled. It was well over 20 years ago when the 3M company designed a liquid that is electrically inert, which allows them to pump it in between all of the circuit boards & in direct contact with all of the components.
I’m pretty sure that, by now, there are more efficient derivatives of that liquid available…
Alas I found my prototype to be less than useful. As all the interface is in the 4th dimension, all you get to see, in our 3 dimensional spac,e is a big shiny black monolith.
Quite impressive mind and, for some reason, it instils the urge to grab hold of something and hurl it up in the air! But only useful if you have senses and appendages that can operate effectively in 4th dimensional space.
Technically we live in a 4-dimensional world. I don’t see why some people seem to consider time something other than a dimension. You’ve got height, length, width, and time creates/allows for motion. I consider a dimension to be an underpinning of the universe upon which other factors function. You could have any of those first four dimensions by themselves or in any combination and they can still exist. But gravity, for instance, requires those things to be in place in order to function. Ergo with no time a 3-dimensional world would have no gravity. If you lose height, width, or length likewise gravity simply would not be able to function.
*sigh*
I did devote an entire paragraph, in my earlier comment, to make it clear that I was referring to a 4th physical dimension, and ensured that I acknowledged time was yet another dimension, in addition to that.
@ TheCrimsonF*cker
Physicists nowadays are increasingly considering time & space to be the same dimension, calling it space/time. Yeah, the terminology is still a bit rough around the edges…
We define the rate that time passes according to a point of reference centered on a mass that is moving through space; time is relative, but it’s relative to the bit of mass that you’re measuring the speed of motion with.
…without success… beyond the break-even level.
I cant wait until the 8th dimension version, comes with Buckaroo Banzai! protection pre loaded.
Actually they’ve been working for the past 20 years on using protein markers for data storage in order to make the size of ‘chips’ smaller. Plus that’s also the entire point of nanotechnology.
Data is just being able to have something have two different states (on and off) to signify 1 and 0, so conceivably they can make chips down to an atomic level, or sub-atomic level, as long as there’s some way to actually see and manipulate down to that level.
Right now, the smallest confirmed length that humans can prove to is 10 to the -16.3 power. That’s smaller than a proton or neutron, but larger than the range of the Weak Nuclear Force of the four fundamental forces of the universe. The smallest that we can see with an optical microscope is .000000001 m (though we can see smaller with other non-optical based microscopes).
There’s a great website that helps show this
https://scaleofuniverse.com/
Technically, data is also currently stored in a four state system of incredible complexity that few if any humans can decipher without the aid of powerful computers. (It’s called DNA)
And yet it is being developed as a means of mass-data storage. Yup, really. Using computers to store information using DNA.
I wonder if anybody has thought to check the human genome to see if there is a Copyright by God notice?
yea but Dabbler wouldn’t ave to share much of her tech… just cut off Sydney’s pinky and replace it with a small hammer space/teleportion device that can only pump out oxygen. or you know she could just make a pen sized oxygen compressor that extracts oxygen from that atmosphere automatically and then with fill up her shield when the switch is flipped
I think one of two unkonwn orbs just does that only for that they made an orb :P
What? And violate the Prime Directive?
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1231
She should wear it on her back next to Tubey. She’ll look like the Rocketeer!
…has anyone made the “Tubey or not Tubey” joke yet?
Or maybe it will end up looking like tubey, so she always has something looking like that on her, even when going into the field all combat ready spheres not hidden.
Yea, I envisage something like the dual cylinder air systems, you see divers wearing. But smaller, so they are convenient enough to carry around habitually. One holding Tubey. The other containing a small air tank and/or rebreather, including the mouthpiece and tubing.
Diving operations usually require big equipment for extended operation. But Halo could get real benefit from even just ten minutes worth of extra air. Whereas, for divers, that probably would not even allow them to reach their destination. Let alone return.
If she’s only looking for 10 minutes a pony bottle will do fine. A standard tank on the surface will last maybe and hour and a half in calm conditons. A rebreather system will last 8+ hours and can’t really be miniaturized.
A non standard tank could last more than an hour on the surface, and still be very compact. However those require some rather exepensive compressors, but to Archon’s budget it might not be an issue.
Also as a diver 10 minutes can save our lives, it’s why we have pony bottles.
Pony bottles? Man, there is no doubt about what Sydney, the girl with the My Little Pony ringtone and posters, will vote for!
depending on the situation, a diver can actually surface extremely fast. it’s something like 10 meters/minute until there is 6 meters to go, then 1 minute from 6 meters to the surface. so it can be extremely useful in an emergency situation ( as for decompression stops, if you are reliant on a pony, you skip them- it is far better to risk the bends, and needing time in a deco chamber, than risk running out of air.)
so yeah, 10 minutes is actually long enough for a diver to surface in an emergency as long as they are diving within recommended recreational diving depths.
as for what Sydney would need, I’m not so sure a pony cylinder would help- remember that she may well need to keep that shield up for longer than 10-20 minutes. a full-size tank may be a better idea (remember that she may well be breathing heavier than usual- nthe usual 25 liters/minute figure is probably too low.
Yea, my suggestion is purely for casual wear purposes. As someone suggested, elsewhere in the comments, she can keep a full set of breathing tanks, scrubbers and the like, in their SWAT vehicle (and/or the unit helicopters, Archon HQ, the comic shop, at home, etc).
Guys – you are barking up the wrong tree (sorry Yorp). Not diving here. What she needs is a SCBA – like the ones made for mining/firefighting etc. Something like these:
https://www.wormald.com.au/fire-products/breathing-apparatus/self-contained-breathing-apparatus-scba
Or this – even has a HUD
https://yseffe.en.alibaba.com/product/1443715709-219192976/Lightweight_air_breathing_apparatus_SCBA_fire_fighting_equipment.html
Interesting. I had not realised that fire-fighters used re-breathers, rather than air tanks.
That said though, even the smallest of the ones that came up in my googling for images were clearly still pretty big items being worn on the back. Far smaller than full SCUBA gear mind, and optimised for land rather than water use too. But not something even a burly fire-fighter would want on their back 24/7.
So yours is a very good suggestion, but for the kind of equipment that Sydney needs in the trunk of her car.
Otherwise, my money is still on the pony tube, for its very small size and convenience. Or, as suggested by GVblackmoon, the EOBA re-breather. Whilst yours is the more appropriate being intended for land-based use, rather than underwater, the other appears to be the smaller, more compact version.
Unless, of course, there is a special forces rebreather which is even smaller, but optimised for the kinds of situations Halo will actually be facing?
But, doing some quick googling, it looks like theirs are designed for use by big burly blokes who can lug around heavy equipment. Mainly images of SEALs mind, so clearly aimed at underwater work. Where the weight is less of an issue anyhow.
The size of the system here is basically the size of the tank – and the size of the tank is dependent on what you’re willing to spend on constructing and pressurizing it. If you want mass-produced steel pressurized by standard compressors, that’s the size you’ll get for a reasonable amount of air. But if you’re willing to spend (a lot) more on better tanks and compressors, you can cut that down quite a bit by making a higher-pressure tank. (Double the pressure, halve the volume, simple.)
Of course higher pressure means more danger if something goes wrong (not that you’re not in major trouble if a standard tank ruptures…). Oh: And just because it’s [i]smaller[/i] doesn’t mean it’s [i]lighter[/i]. You’re carrying the same mass of air either way. You [i]might[/i] save a bit on the weight of the tank itself, but I wouldn’t count on it.
When I was in the Navy, we used something called the “Self-Contained Oxygen Breathing Apparatus.” Instead of carrying around a potentially explosive compressed-air container, it used a small canister of chemicals that would provide about 20-30 minutes of oxygen from a solid-chemical reaction.
Sounds like the would be nice scope for chemical solutions. Part of Tubey II being filled with that. The other part with the chemicals used to counteract the Carbon Dioxide.
The big advantage being that it would provide breathable air for passengers as well. Whilst still being lightweight and compact enough that it would not interfere with her day-to-day activities.
Rescuing hostages being one very useful role that Sydney can perform better than most members of the team, that would be a very useful option. Whilst buddy-breathing can be used for one or two individuals, it needs active co-operation and/or active assistance.
Obviously the more folks she has in the shield, the less time the chemicals will add. But it also makes any extra time that much more important. Currently she can contain enough air that most normal situations there will be no problem.
But, of course, Arc-SWAT have to deal with the extraordinary scenarios. So every extra bit of preparation, made in advance, allows extra tactics in an operation. And give that much more margin in an emergency.
Heh. Not that I can recall. Props on making a prop pun.
Now see if you can make a popcorn gun pun.
Well,…..I’ve already heard of “popping some caps” in reference to an imminent gunfight, so maybe…
I’d figure a popcorn gun wouldn’t go “pew pew,” but instead would go “pop pop.” Ricocheting bullets go “pzing,” but popcorn would…
…
…
Come to think of it, as many times as I’ve seen people throwing popcorn at other people, I’ve never heard any sound from popcorn ricocheting off their heads…What would be a good sound effect for that anyway?
If memory serves correctly, I think someone made the “tubey or not tubey” pun back during the immediate aftermath of last night’s superbrawl; As Achilles finally emerged from the rubble, he apparently (& unwittingly) also dislodged tubey from the debris. I think it was that comic page where the joke first appeared in the comments.
Please forgive me for not perusing such a long comments-page to confirm it…
Something tells me the quartermaster will do it. They’d like their heroes to stay alive after all.
He’ll do it but he’ll bitch about no one ever returning their equipment in good condition.
It would require someone nearly angelic in disposition as a QM to not complain…After all, considering the destructive power being unleashed in a super brawl, is there any piece of equipment that could be constructed to remain unscathed?
Other than Achilles himself (if not what he wears or carries)?
There are enough comments on every imaginable topic in the early comic comment sections that its possible I’m fibbing here but I feel I was the first or one of the very first to insist on this when the problem first reared its oddly timed head so I’m thrilled it is being addressed so quickly.
In those first conversations I thought it was pretty well worked out that she should not have been running out of breathable air as fast as she did the first time or as fast as she kept opening the shield during the fight all the time. Buuuut if Dave is going to talk about that it would probably be in her testing/training scenes coming up (can’t wait!) so we’ll just leave that here for now.
But that said, I’m glad that Sydney is the one to bring it up. As a scuba diver who discovered the orbs while diving that should be a link she would make before others, even if she made that story up that would make the association, and that’s exactly what’s happening here even though she isn’t confident enough to demand that accessory to her outfit.
Frankly she’s such a valuable asset she should get something as close to power armor as they can currently make in this sci-fi/magical government funded super organization so she isn’t taken out casually when switching orbs, or just using something other than the shield orb combos, as her powers become easily analyzed on TV appearances. She provides all the powers so it literally “just” has to be armor that provides enough power to move its heavy self with maybe some sensors/communication. I know some of the other squishies go light on the armor for mobility (like possibly Heatwave would have trouble flying like that though after the toe incident I would be all like, “Look just give me the armor and design it so it can fly with the heat power I provide its thrusters and if that don’t work SCREW FLYING!! My poor piggy…. TT”) but they don’t have a sweet power set that can possibly be stolen after they are dead. I would think that would make her preservation on the field a little more important to the government. (loosing a rare asset is bad. Loosing a rare field asset that the enemy can now use is VERY BAD!)
Spoken like a lucky person that never had to wear the stuff.
Its fantasy power armor that helps carry its own self around and has advanced miniature tech that, since its a fantasy, might even include on board AC (Sydney’s orbs are doing a lot of the other stuff so its not as big a stretch as Iron Man’s crazy packed suit!). Nobodies ever worn THIS stuff though its possible some military folk are helping test out some similar ideas now. I’m not sure how far along that is though I thought it was still experimental.
Or were you talking about the scuba gear? I can’t hold my breath very well at all. As much as I love the water the underwater is probably not the best environment for me…
There are real exoskeleton tests going on, as we speak. As with any prototype, I doubt that user comfort is high on the agenda. The only difference between that and powered armour, is strapping on the armour. So I would be very surprised if the military were not doing that as well.
Actually, user comfort is exactly what they’re working on at this point. Not so much the fit as such – but the activation comfort. You want the suit to move with you, without you having to control it separately, and the main problem with them at this point is [i]lag[/i]: It takes a finite amount of time for the suit to detect that you’re moving, send the message to the motors that move the suit, and for the motors to follow your movement. Same when you stop moving.
End result: Wearing a current-gen exoskeleton is exhausting and literally bruising, as you have to push it around all the time.
(And once they get that sorted, there’s still the problem of power supply. You need to power all those motors in constant motion somehow, without bulking up the suit to much. Though battery tech is getting better.)
Sounds like you might have to have some sensors implanted inside the users body to sense what the nerves and muscles etc… are up to?
Its basically a prosthetic so its prosthetic research that is probably going to make the synergy of man and machine movement possible.
https://sciencenordic.com/brain-controlled-prosthetic-arm-connected-nerves
Seems you are right about the batteries. I looked around and was surprised how old this article was. I’ll have to take some time and find out what they can do now.
https://news.illinois.edu/news/13/0416microbatteries_WilliamKing.html
Alternatively pick up the signals from the brain. That technology is maturing fast, as we have been using it in combat aircraft, for targeting, for some while. Amongst other applications. And many companies are developing brain scanning technologies, of numerous sorts.
But, either way, skipping the delay, imprecision and wear-and-tear of manual control will be the better route, in the long run.
The problem is that then we aren’t talking about a suit you can just put on. We’re talking about a prosthetic that you’ll need extensive surgery before you can start training to use. Basically: dedicated cyborgs, instead of trained pilots.
(Though prosthetics are getting better at remote reading of nerve impulses via skin electrodes as well. But I’m betting there’s some loss of resolution there.)
Not at all. I have seen demonstrations of headgear, that you can simply wear, which would do the job. No need to even implant sensors in the skin, or shave the head to stick them on.
Those were working prototypes. By now they are probably getting close to mass production. Doubtless you will see them being sold, as controllers for games consoles and computers, in the next few years.
They will work just as well built into the helmet of an exoskeleton or a suit of powered armour.
You can check out videos of such on YouTube. Although I am a bit too tired to hunt through and find you a link.
(Which is why I replied to Observer and not you… Though I still think there would be fine-motor-control issues, probably larger ones than on-skin electrodes.)
Oh, sorry, I thought we had hit the top level of comments, and that your comment was in response to mine. My bad.
Yea, you are perfectly right in that regard. Plus it is early days, so there will be lots of teething problems. However there are ways and means for correcting for such inaccuracies, and the more companies and enthusiasts working on the problems, the faster they will be ironed out.
Mind you there will be teething problems for exoskeleton/ battle armour technology too. So development and refinement of both fields can be performed simultaneously.
Plus there will be feedback from other areas. The games industry, hackers and the like will actually help the brain scanning side tremendously. Along with all the perks like mass production bringing down costs, plus competition from numerous companies, improving comfort, ease of use and so on.
So that side will actually probably mature much faster than the exo-skeleton side, which, by necessity will have a smaller manufacturing and user base. Especially during the prototyping stages.
Once that too breaks through to the general public though, then there will be a similar boost from those sorts of effects. But still, I feel, on a smaller scale. Rather akin to how we presently have a lot of people who are enthusiasts of car-rallies, say. But way more who use smart phones.
Once we realise that we can control all our wearable electronic devices by wearing a cap, or hat, and just thinking to them… they will be pretty commonplace too.
Yep, definitely getting too sleepy.
YouTube——-> TED.comEven if Yorp’s idea is a ways farther off for power armor than he imagines implanted sensors that then transmit their readings to the outside would probably be a doable.
Oh I don’t imagine we will be seeing it on the battlefield anytime soon.
Mind you I did not expect to see the US deploying thousands of robots on the battlefield either. And that has already happened.
I just hope they do not allow autonomous ones to start killing people, without humans in the loop, anytime soon.
correct me if I’m wrong, but i thought “bullet proof” came from armor being tested or proofed to withstand a bullet, not being invulnerable to them.
That’s the thing, people asume it means invulnerable. So bullet resistant is a better term, and more accurate to (there is always going to be a bigger bullet that it can’t stop)
I get that, what I mean is they are known to be bullet resistant because they ARE bullet proof.
Much depends on the bullet. There is a WORLD of differance between, say, a .22 round at thirty feet and a .44 round at point blank – and that is without getting into ammo sub-types (such as AP or DP) and the more exotic calibres.
So it is entirely possible for a given armor type to be “proof” against certain bullets, “resistant” against others, and maybe even “forget it” against some.
THEN, as some here have already mentioned, there is the issue of how much armor one put on. “As much as I can carry” might seem cute, but if you are in an extreme environment, or need to carry other gear, or are in situations where agility and/or dexterity is important, or are even simply walking instead of riding, it all adds up.
Check out the phone book bullet proofing episode of mythbusters….which went fine till Karri Byron shot out the engine block with a high powered rifle.
Yeah, there’s video at YouTube that shows what just the Barret .50 cal can do to an engine block…which also goes hand-in-hand to prove that Friendly Fire isn’t.
Ain’t no such thang as a “bullet-proof” vest, that whimpy li’l thang…
Combat armor that the military uses, has ceramic plates to help stop rifle calibres. If you strip it down, it is still like 30 lbs. The uniform including boots approx 9 lbs., helmet 9 lbs., loaded M-4 16 lbs. ish, extra ammo (don’t remember heavier than the loaded weapon) 20 lbs. ish, and whatever personal / misc. eq. you need to have. Just walking around with a 30 lbs. body armor is bad enough, if you are bullet resistant at clothing weight super awesome!
Actually, bulletproof vests are designed to stop pistol bullets, which are fatter and slower than most rifle bullets. So “bigger” actually gets caught easier by the kevlar fabric. It’s the skinny, high speed projectiles cops worry more about, thus the concern over the proliferation of AK type weapons in the hands of street criminals.
The military vests also have plates that get inserted, which do a better job of stopping rifle bullets. Of course, it still isn’t perfect, and you still have places exposed.
So do police vests, it’s called a trauma plate and goes over the heart area. Not very big, but then if you enlarge the covered area too much, it becomes detrimental to mobility.
Speakin’ from experience, the only way to really be ‘Bulletproof’ is to be wearing several layers of kevlar and ceramic plating, which is heavy as -fuck-, slows you down, and frankly, will stop maybe -one- fifty cal before being rendered useless.
“Resistant” is the best term you can use, because like anything with a ‘Resistance’, the resistance lasts only so long before it’s over come.
As a general rule of thumb, your standard ‘local militia’ bullet proof vest will stop one to five bullets, depending on shot placement, caliber, range, angel, and the Devils Luck.
Personally I wouldn’t trust any level of practical body armor to stop even one .50 cal round, not with what I’ve seen them do to steel plate and brick walls, way too much energy behind the round there.
As an interesting side note, your average soldier in a combat environment these days carries more weight in equipment and armor than a medieval knight did, and to think we thought all that chainmail and plate was heavy :D
Frankly, I wouldn’t trust almost any level of -impractical- body armor to stop a .50 cal. Seriously, them shits are crazy.
Of course, Mr. Fashion is god at being an exception to the rule, so he’s got ways about him. Ashley is prior military after all.
You could probably trust an aircraft carrier, I’ve heard that they are quite resistant to most one-person weapons.
Not so sure even an aircraft carrier would stand up to Dabbler’s railgun. At least, I wouldn’t volunteer to be the one cowering behind it.
I agree with DaveM on this one…Dabbler wanted Achilles standing behind the tank when she shot the railgun at it, remember?
O.o
Achilles is the only real bulletproofing that exists…
Lets remember- the stuff Sydney is wearing isn’t a normal bullet-proof vest though. It’s fantasy-material kevlar 2.0. Given Ashley’s comments it probably still won’t stop heavy-duty rifle fire, but it doesn’t need to conform exactly to real-word rules.
Heh, when I plugged “Q-Vex” into google, all the results that came up were for fishing tackle (and no-I do not google fishing normally).
Whereas when I tried it with “Q-Vex Armour”, all the results were from fantasy sources, such as games. Barring the final result, on the first page. Which was from Grrl Power page 318.
*glances around, and speaks in a hushed tone*
Shhh! Google is listening in on us!
Omg! Even more than that, it incorporated MY comment in the listing!
“to wear that got slowly adapted into the teams outfits until the Q-vex stuff was ready. ….. But would allow the cloth to work as if it were armour!”
Quit it Google, you are making me paranoid!
@Yorp: are you still paranoid…if they REALLY ARE “out to get you”?
Regardless of what you’re wearing, Sydney, “Duck & Cover” is still a useful tactical move…
@ scantronb
I’m going to risk answering your question on Yorp’s behalf.
Merriam-Webster’s defines “paranoia” as: medical : a serious mental illness that causes you to falsely believe that other people are trying to harm you
Since they include the term “falsely believe” in the definition, I’d have to say that it’s NOT paranoia if they really ARE out to get you.
;)
Are we talking .50 BMG or .50 AE?
With the .50 AE it is possible to make wearable armor that has a reasonable likelihood of stopping it.
But the .50 BMG? You can make armor that can stop it… but you’re not gonna be wearing that armor. 50 cal BMG is what they use in anti-materiel rifles… for shooting through tank armor.
Ashley is capable of stopping a .50 BMG.
One.
Without him getting killed. Two if he dies.
The transparent armor on the MRAPS is supposed to be able to take 8 point blank rounds of .50 BMG before failing… that is what they but out in the class anyway ;)
“…depending on shot placement, caliber, range, angel, and the Devils Luck.”
And the Devil’s Luck isn’t very good, if you think about it…He’s in Hell, ya’ know. Which is where a bullet can put you too, regardless of a vest.
That’s why it’s called the Devils Luck.
You find yourself in the worst situations, and somehow survive, but in the back of your head, you have the knowledge that you probably shouldn’t have made it…
Yea, been there, done that. And it was not in the back of my head. I went back to the scene of the crash and followed my skid marks. Only in that case I could not even see how luck did it.
Even if I got Maxima to pick up my car and hold it on it’s side, to try and squeeze it though the only gaps available, it would not fit through.
There is a stage beyond Devils Luck, it is technically called “WTF?”
I feel there’s a version of WTF that applies only to military personnel that work on the flight deck of aircraft carriers.
That’s the level of luck we call FUBAR.
This is why the military refers to them as ballistic armor or flak jackets. They realize that nothing is bullet proof to a big enough bullet.
“The bullet proof vests are not bullet proof? But that’s my weakness!”
There is one armor that is bullet proof.
It’s called a tank.
Even a tank can be pierced. Like adam glocker said above – I wouldn’t have much faith in “bulletproof” anything against an anti-materiel weapon like the .50 cal
However, I would like to point out that Ashley’s background as EOD has a very particular story to it, more towards how he arrived at ARCHON in the first place, and how he figured out he was a super. Suffice to say…
*shades*
It was a Blast.
“Hur Hur”. you are a real cutup. You really have us in stitches. I can’t wait to hear your other material. Don’t be crewel and keep us on pins and needles. We are dyeing to hear them. Or do you have something more pressing to do?
Sew, can I per-suede you tell us what looms ahead for Ashley? I’m sure you’re just busting at the seams to spin us a yarn about his previous adventures. If he was in Iraq, did he serve as part of the Serge? Did he develop his skills like a bolt from the blue when something tearable happened, or through shear willpower? Can you tell us how he felt? Did he get too big for his britches and have his commander say “Good, job. Just don’t get khaki.”
Sorry to keep ragging on you. It is starting to sound snippy. I will go back to reading the other comments in this thread.
There’s no pulling the wool over my eyes. I sew see what you did there ;-)
Oh my Goddess, I went on deployment before I got to read this, I’m so glad I came back and reread this now, because it’s absolutely hilarious.
You’re forcing me to reconsider my actions here, but I think instead of trying to persuade you that this isn’t an argument you’re looking for, no need for someone to lose a hand over it. I have the moral high ground after all.
And I’d love to spin you a yarn, but I’d rather make a cats cradle. More fun that way.
Yeah, but the armaments have improved with the tanks. My current fav tank buster is a small rpg designed to cause a blast wave to propagate through the tanks hull as a ripple. When the ripple hits the inside it causes shrapnel to shatter off and bounce around the crew compartment. Instant kill and the tank’s still usable if you need it on the battlefield.
Mmm, I wonder how effective it is versus armour/hulls of varying materials and designs? Sounds like the kind of weapon which might work great against some targets. But then find that others tend to dampen the ripple, for a variety of reasons.
And given that tank builders tend to experiment a lot with things like layering armour, adding cavities, and so on, there is quite a lot more variability under the paintwork, than one might assume.
most tanks since the 1950’s can survive sustained direct fire from an M2HB(even loaded with SLAP rounds :( ). now give me a 25mm loaded with APDUDS and i can at least give the crew something to worry about.
Depends on your definition of bullet. An artillery shell or a penetrator round from another tank will kill a tank. That’s why they tend to fire from revetments now. Hell a cheap (relatively) shoulder-fired missile can take out a 60 million dollar tank. Which is why we rarely use them today.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet
I believe a tank or artillery shell would fit into that definition. And the cross-section would look very similar.
Actually, the 30mm DUAP (Depleted Uranium Armor-Piercing) bullet was specifically used to shoot tanks, and is used in the primary weapon system of the A10 Warthog. So, tanks just need bigger guns.
I saw that the latest tank, unveiled in Moscow within the last week, was being promoted as capable of penetrating nine feet of defences!* Although I note that it failed to specify what. I imagine it is probably less useful against reactive armour, than concrete and/or sand bags.
But, even so, I would not fancy that shooting at me. I only have a couple of feet of stone protecting me!
* Sprinkles a pinch of salt around, given that it even broke down during the dress-rehearsal for the parade.
Hardened defenses like chobam armor which is what the M1 uses tend to fair really well against the older model Russian tanks. I suspect this new one will have similar issues when it comes to actually denting one of ours. Much less one of the German tanks those things are down right terrifying when it comes to how their armor works.
As for scrapping a tank it requires a little more work than your normal weapon system that a grunt carries. But we have them every thing from the AT4-W to the TOW-2B and a couple in between, granted if you really want to eat a tank and Cavalry Scouts love eating tanks keeps us regular. Nothing beats close air support from an A10 like Chopin in the morning when they hit them from above.
One of the things about tanks is that they’re not armored all over. The rear, bottom, and top tend to be the lightest armored, with the heavy stuff on the front and sides. Which is why an A-10 rolling in was terrifying, because it was shooting those big bullets right at the weakest armor. Hit inside where all the tank’s ammo and fuel was stored and … “boom!”
The A10 is my favourite aircraft, other than the VTOL ones. I loved how, in early test-combat, the opponents were having difficulty targeting it. Partly because of the design features, such as the placement of the engines.
But the bit that really made me laugh was the fact that the most modern fighters were all optimised to combat supersonic aircraft. So they did not cope well with having to fight highly manoeuvrable sub-sonic aircraft.
Shame that there are such strong attempts to retire it off. I hope they do not succeed. Unless these new tanks prove to be too well engineered against it, of course. But retiring it on budget grounds, whilst it is still an effective, proven asset, does strike me as a dumb move.
That said, I do not really follow these things closely, so that is just my uneducated opinion, based on my impressions from news headlines. I could well be very off the mark. Especially with an emotive bias for the aircraft.
The ridiculous thing is the Pentagon keeps telling the Congress they don’t need anymore tanks but money talks and they keep renewing the contracts. Somewhere (probably in the desert) there are a but-load of M1s just sitting in row upon row rusting.
The Air Force has been trying to get rid of it since the day it was introduced. It’s “low, slow, and butt-ugly,” which doesn’t fit their fighter jock mentality of high, fast, and “purty.” They almost succeeded, then Desert Storm came along and it turned out that it was exactly what it was designed to be: the single best close air support and tank killer in existence. They still want fancy, high tech, fast (and fragile) airplanes instead. (sigh) Best t-shirt I saw: A-10 Warthog. Go Ugly Early.
Had a lot of buddies that played in the sandbox during gulf one missed going myself by about two months. Blessing and curse Cavalry Scouts have a high mortality rate something about the fact the enemy targets us with extreme prejudiced. They loved the A-10 when they found out they had ugly cover they used it and abused it good Cavalry scout never fires a shot unless he has no choice and if we do we don’t mess around.
Best story I read come out of the gulf on the A-10 was one where the pilot lost half a wing most of his tail and still landed it. Flew all the way back dead stick using his engines to keep it in the air. They fixed it up and he was out flying it again damn things are as close to indestructible as you can get.
Yea, that was one of the other features I appreciated it for, as an armchair warrior. The fact that the engineers had their heads screwed on right when they were designing it. They knew its very specific purpose from day one.
No messing around trying to give it multiple roles or compromise options. It had one purpose, and everything about it was dedicated to achieving that.
And one thing that happens to close ground support aircraft is they get shot at. A lot. So slapping on masses of armour was vital. But too much and it would reduce that all important bomb payload. So they put it where it would do the most good.
The pilot sits in a titanium bath. And the engines are surrounded by the same. The rest of it is built with the expectation that holes will be shot in it, so has enough redundancies and the like to just soak it up and keep on going!
So I am not surprised at your anecdote. It is precisely what I would have expected.
Rather similar, historically speaking, as to how the mosquito had it’s reputation for keeping going, in it’s WW2 era. Except that it lacked the titanium armour part.
But, for sheer style, being made out of wood, rather than metal, yet still being an effective combat aircraft more than made up for it. Of course being faster than any other aircraft (when it was built, that is), did rather help its survivability. Although it did have that ‘go ahead put holes through the fuselage, see if we care’ attitude too.
That anecdote about the A-10 flying and landing safely has been around a LOT longer that Gulf-One. I remember reading about something like that in the mid 80s.
I wonder how many boots on the ground found themselves in a situation where an A-10 showing up saves their lives…And AREN’T happy to see it. It’s moments like that when you wonder how beautiful they THINK it is.
;)
Huh?
We have a sayin’ here in the South, “So ugly it’s beautiful!”
To further paraphrase those comments of mine & adamas:
It’s like when you wake up in the hospital from some kind of accident & the doctor allows your rescuer to visit…And they are beyond the “butt-ugly” category. But to you, they’re likely to be the most beautiful thing you ever saw…Because you’re lucky to still be able to see anything at all.
Not counting anti tank rifles (there are snipers that can punch through a tank), tanks contain squishy humans. Those squishy humans need to see out of the tank. That means holes in the tank
The Barret 50 Anti Material rifle will not hurt a modern tank. You will just piss off the driver since he will need to get a new paint job on it. Anything less then a 25mm round will bounce and the 25mm needs to be sabot or HE to do much good. Even than the 25mm will have problems with the front and side armor you have to hit it in the rear on the ground or from the top in the air.
What the .50 anti material rifle is really good for is light armored vehicles like the BMP or the 113. Even then you need a sabot type round to penetrate. It also works well on walls and most sand bags. Which means you can shoot through walls and such as long as they aren’t much more than 20 inches thick. 25mm rifles haven’t gotten much past experimental stages in the states
For killing tanks on foot you need one of four things a mine, indirect fire support this includes air cover, a Anti tank rocket system AT4W, or if you are like I was someone behind you in a covered position in a tank or Bradley. The last option requires the most balls you are taking fire from both sides. Dig your foxhole deep. Have I mentioned most people consider Cavalry scouts crazy.
I certainly would not be keen on the idea of being the first point of contact with any opposing army!
The trick is to not be seen. Once you are seen all bets are off best example of this is in Blackhawk Down where the scouts drive in and have to walk out being the sharp pointy end of the stick is not the best place to be. But you do know where the enemy is at and if you do the job right they never see you coming.
“…being the sharp pointy end of the stick…”
It’s being in the position where you’ll read the worst words you’ll ever see are “This side towards the enemy.”
Hollywood cliches and D&D are lousy references of the nature of body armor, past and present.
For starters, the kind of kevlar vests you can put conceal under a shirt are only effective against the kind of rounds typically calibrated for handguns….
Halo really needs a notepad and sharpened pencil with an eraser for today.
So… if she makes The List very big, it might stop a bullet?
Good idea!
Not even a .50 BMG can penetrate THE HATRED.
Issues of failing to stop a bullet asside, there also the rather ticklish issue of not injuring the bullet proof/resistant vest wearer when successfully stopping a bullet…. Two issues I know exist here:
The vest stops the bullet and spreads the force of the shot some, but not enough to prevent injury, resulting in a fantastic bruise.
The vest stops the bullet with a reinforced element, such as a trauma plate, that causes the round to ricochet. Protecting vital areas (heart) but inflicting other injury (arms exposed to the ricochet).
Given the options of bullet through the heart or big bruise and trauma to a limb, I know which option I would go for. And, unlike soldiers and cops in the real world, Super Doc can help treat the injuries. Although I approve that DaveB has opted to limit her capabilities, such that crippling injuries may be beyond even her capability.
That prevents the serious risk posed to real-world forces from being over-trivialised. And it also retains a significant feeling of threat to our heroines. Whilst we may feel confident that a character will not be idly killed off, even a minor incident could pose the risk of a crippling injury to them. As with real world cops and troops.
Which is why steel and ceramic armor plates are covered in anti spall and fragmentation coating. This coating can be surprisingly effective in catching any bullet fragments and protect the wearer. Without this coating any hit to the chest plate would cause a spray of fragments that could easily cause serious wounds or even kill you.
There’s a lot of videos about this on youtube if you want to look into how armor plates work, and what calibers they are capable of stopping. If you want to stop a .50 BMG you’re not going to have much luck with what’s currently available, while it’s relatively easy to stop a .50AE or .500 S&W Magnum. I still wouldn’t want to stand in front of either of those handguns no matter what kind of body armor I was allowed to use, but the odds of surviving isn’t that bad provided I had access to the most advanced armor systems. Note that I said “survive”. At the best I’d probably suffer severe blunt trauma, some cracked ribs and some internal bleeding. At worst I’d be a source of revenue for the undertaker…
.50BMG? No thank you…
Ashley has been named in comic, shouldn’t he get a Who’s Who now?
Power level 4 or 5, TK (the weight icon), Armor/Invulnerability (shield) and possibly flight and enhanced strength. Since Ashley can use his powers on his own clothes he can be wearing a t-shirt and warmup pants and still be in power armor. Not that he would EVER be caught wearing something so gauche.
Also enemy control. He can control an opponent’s clothes as they wear them.
Don’t be surprised if he wears a cape. Not like a superhero, just like a… uh… Victorian opera goer. Believe me, if I could control cloth, I’d be sure to keep plenty around.
“NO CAPES!!!!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R2aW03pwL0
Well yes, but if Ashley were to have a cape, and it were to get caught in something, he REALLY wouldn’t have anyone else to blame, so I think he could get away with it.
What about a cape attached with velcro. That way if it gets caught up in a jet engine it will tear off the cape and not take Ashley with it.
I favor clip-on neckties for the same reasons…
Wouldn’t he then just use the cape to destroy/block/stop the thing it was getting sucked into? Since he can make it harder than steel. If your power is the cape I think you get a pass.
Agreed. Although destroying it is simply one option. Moving it so that it was not being sucked in would be the easier one. A fabrikinetic would be at minimal risk from their own clothing. Their limbs would be a liability, before their clothing.*
A cape would be an optimised, powerful weapon for them. Not a dangerous fashion accessory.
Mind you a scarf would be pretty handy too. But could cause the fashion police to be mobilised, in the wrong weather.
* This ignoring any super power that specifically oppose such powers, of course. So applies in an ‘all-other-things-being-equal’ situation.
I believe there was a version of a cape as a weapon once. Small weights in the bottom edge made it a whip/flail.
Yup. There were even fighting styles which incorporated it, during the age of using oversized cutlery as weapons. As demonstrated by the musketeers, entangling your opponent’s sword arm (or head) in a cape, is a very good way of incapacitating them, with minimal risk.
So is he going to one punch harem at some point? https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/389
Been done with sashes and belts as well.
Or a superlong scarf, ala the Doctor.. though you would inch into Tsugumomo territory with that.
Like a cape over one shoulder? (https://oi60.tinypic.com/4hskgj.jpg)
I swear, if I could pull it off, I’d wear one all the time
As it is only over one shoulder, it must be really easy to pull it off. Send us a photo of how you look in it.
I also think you’d be able to pull it off nicely…Unless you superglue it to your shoulder or something similar to that.
Bunch of smartasses
I’d rather be a smartass than a dumb one.
Yes, yes he should!
*holds up placard, and begins to march up and down*
*joins the march*
What do we want?
ASHLEY!
When do we want him?
ASHLEY!
What they said!
but only when he speaks, or is otherwise important to the scene.
here he just play with the clothes.
Did you miss the entire second half of the page…?
Just so. And gets specifically mentioned by name in panel 4.
apparently yes.
I’m in! Ashley is awesome! <3
Yeah, I forgot to do that last night. I’ll get it up today.
That’s… no. Too predictable.
Another use for fabrikinesis, Ashley isn’t sitting on air, he’s sitting on his pants.
It’s a really cool powerstunt.
And probably way more comfortable than any chair, because he has the ultimate formfitting seating
But I bet the first few times he tried that stunt turned into ‘ultimate wedgie’…
X_X
He eventually got the hang of of subtle control, with precise manipulation. He just had to concentrate, practice & turn it into a more reflexive use of ability.
…It’s just a matter of buckling down & pulling yourself up by the bootstraps…
TK on just fabric has its limitations. If Ashley was ever sent out in the field, he could be less useful in some situations.
Max: “OK team, today we are capturing a known drug kingpin. Thanks to Ashley we have infiltrated a fashion show he is attending. Recon shows his current location and we need to take him now before we lose him again. The location is a nude beach.”
Math: “Oh Yeah!”
Ashley: “Oh No!”
Ashley: “If I may, let me cut in and say this- I never leave home without my towel. Nude beaches have towels. See where this is going? Besides, my ribbon is sufficient to make a razor whip… the options are simply endless.”
Telekenetic anything can turn whatever they control into weapons.
Remember Vekter? https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1477
Carried around small balls to use as bullets. Same thing
So Ashley is a Hoopy Frood?
Indeed. He’s a guy who knows where his towel is at.
You know, that raises an interesting question. How does the force exerted by telekinesis in general work? If it’s like reaching with an invisible hand, then you couldn’t do that anymore than you could pull yourself up into the air by tugging your hair. There has to be a force exerted either into the air or onto the ground somewhere underneath his bum (center of gravity), otherwise he’d topple over. It can’t be simply nullifying gravity for the object, since then it couldn’t support anything else; sure the fabric itself would float, but there’s additional 70 kilograms of person pushing down on it.
That floor seems to be pretty plush. I suppose he could be pushing against it with the same power.
Who knows? Super powers break the laws of physics so there are all sorts of ways it could work. Maximas is the only one we have had explained, in-comic, and that may not be representative of any other versions. Hers involves the forming of a force field and pushing with that.
So although it looks like Maxima is picking up a tank and throwing it, what she is actually doing is directing the force of her 0-range telekinesis to do the lifting. Hence, even for her, Maxima’s body is not having to cope with the weight of the object or to act as the ‘and opposite’ part in its reaction, when moved.
Likewise Halo’s tentacle appears to be a physical manifestation of force. But which is not being directed through her. Although the tentacle terminates close to her, there is a gap between her and it. So the interactions are between the object being lifted and the tentacle.
In this case it is the fabric of the clothes which are being telekinesed. Perhaps there is a force-field being formed around each thread, making it akin to Maxima’s or Sydney’s powers? Or, alternatively, the force may be directly applied to the fabric. What we can see is that there is no down-draft, so it is not pushing against the air.
The ‘push’ is coming from whatever source is powering the super ability. As such it is not necessary that it pushes against the floor. That side of the equation might be extra-dimensional, for example.
Ashley’s weight is being applied to the fabric though, and the fabric is getting enough force applied to it from somewhere to push back. If the power of that force is sufficient, he could even fly with that technique.
Perhaps telekinesis uses the strong nuclear force. That would explain the fact it’s stronger than gravity.
Probably it works because it works. If comics went by hard science, comics would fall apart inside of an issue.
Personally though, I am envisaging this as an animation of the cloth, rather than telekinesing it. Although the term used did imply telekinesis, so I am probably wrong in doing so. So when I look at that panel, I see it as being a stiffening of the cloth until it is rigid enough to bear the weight. But not uncomfortably so, as it is perfectly tailored to the body.
The significant difference being that this would not allow flight. But would allow the cloth to work as if it were armour! Which would not necessarily be the case for the other version. Although even super cloth armour probably has its limits, when it comes to stopping armour-piercing bullets.
That would be a major TK limitation (like the D&D spell Mage Hand), if you were limited to what you could do physically. Sort of like Harem’s TP limit.
“Quick, move that bomb into the atmosphere!”
“I can’t, they put weights in it!”
“Go to the damn gym!!”
I’ve always figured the existence of TK would prove the existence of a “fabric of the universe” (as opposed to, say, the lots and lots of nothing that exists within and between atoms), which is the basis for absolute position, and which the TK levers against.
He wears clothes for the same reason Magneto wears chain mail. Well, he also wears clothes for the same reasons we all do.
To carry loose change.
To hide that birth mark that shows he is one of the Chosen?
That’s why I do it yes
How does Telekinesis work?
Very simply, it depends on the individual. For example, Magneto has a form of TK, but (last time I checked) it is largely confined to materials that can be affected by magnetism. A lot of psi-based TKs probably aren’t at all bothered by the compositon of whatever they are moving, but may not be able to do the same TK stunts as Magneto. Ditto for “Magic” TKers. And so on.
What may be true of one set of TK may be completely impossible for another.
In the same way both Iceman’s and Storm’s powers could simply be different forms of Hydrokinesis.
True dat. By the same token, some of what Storm does can be considered Telekinesis as well.
“Another use for fabrikinesis, Ashley isn’t sitting on air, he’s sitting on his pants.”
Is that all you see him doing? He’s also giving himself a floorshow, the clothes in front of him are doing a striptease dance – minus the dancer.
I thought he was designing a set for Arianna
I was thinking the same thing, actually…
He could use this power to Fly? cool
He could, as long as he’s not in the shower…
Ashley is the only person who can literally fly by the seat of his pants.
This is one of my new favorite things.
Gotta be careful of those situations that induce a high level of a “pucker factor” though…
He wouldn’t want to wrinkle the trousers.
Technically, I am also sitting on my pants.
Soooo, when do we get to see Heatwave in her new outfit? :P
Ashley: “When I’m -FINISHED-. Silly butt, you do not rush PERFECTION!” *flicks ponytail*
“You would degrade FASHION for speed? For- for simple CHEESECAKE? NO! This is THE. WORST. POSSIBLE THING!” *drama-collapse, held up by own clothing*
He he.
*starts checking Ashley’s hair for a unicorn horn* =D
Ashley: “Pardon me, but can you not? I’m -trying- to recapture the essence of Fashon, darling.”
…. on a completely different point… anifreik your gravatar is Nana from Nana to Kouru… niiiiice.
If you click on the hotlink, you will see that there is a good reason for that.
I guess that a NSFW warning is probably not required with the avatar in question. :-D
Do they really think that keeping mostly domestic team in military gear is a good PR-move?
I mean maybe it’s different in America, but where I live seeing soliders on active duty in the middle of your town is an indication that something is SERIOUSLY wrong.
And it is just a prime cause for all those redneck morons to be shouting how (insert_president_name_here) plans to turn USA into dictatorship and occupy it or what-not.
Well, they are only deployed when something IS seriously wrong. Supervillains, or major natural disasters for example
Really? Only when something is “SERIOUSLY” wrong? See, I find that strange. There’s a military base just outside of the city here and one frequently sees soldiers in their camos, or combats, or whatever they call them. Maybe they’re doing some shopping just before or after going on duty or maybe they’re on duty and are off grabbing something for the base at the hardware store or supermarket. It’s really no big deal.
All credit to MAXIMUM in using the caveat “active duty”, in that comment. Which negates the off-duty soldier issue. Whereas, if you arrive at an airport and see it surrounded by tanks and a company of battle-ready infantry, you do get a bit worried that things might not be business as normal!
However, in response to MAXIMUM‘s comment, do bear in mind that Sydney is part of America’s super-SWAT team. That uniform is very much in keeping with the feel of a SWAT uniform, so fits in with the tradition. And if Super-SWAT’s presence is demanded, the public needs to feel alarmed.
It is like seeing the flashing lights on an ambulance. It is a warning. “Snap out of your day-dreaming and pay attention! Somebody’s life might be in danger!”
The side you are pointing out is true, in that, when there is no situation going on, it may alarm the public. But that is why police, and military operating in civilian areas, get training in how to put the public at ease.
But, in balancing the two issues, the emergency role must take precedence over the PR one. If Sydney runs into a room, it is better that everybody’s first instinct is to dive for cover. That may save their lives!
“If Sydney runs into a room, it is better that everybody’s first instinct is to dive for cover.”
Isn’t that her default status?
For clarity, if she runs into a room [bold]IN UNIFORM[/bold], then everyone had best dive for cover as it could save their lives.
Yes, I do see your point. But general alertnes can be achieved in other ways as well.
What I was trying to say is, that they have, in essence military cop superheroes, right?
But superheroes have a huge positive media presence, thanks to decades and decades of comics. Whereas, no offence meant to all soldiers, does often come with at least some negative connotations, especially when military personnel is acting on domestic soil.
So I am very confused at why would Arc-SWAT PR decide to put an emphasis on the “soldier” and “cop” part of their jobs, rather than “superhero” part. I mean I can see how it strengthens the inner discipline (which is part of why uniforms are used at all), but still…
Ok, first off this is an area where it only comes down to a judgement call. There are valid arguments on either side. However the arguments about going the super hero costume route are not so strong that I feel DaveB has made a poor call. So I will try to set your mind at ease with some of the positives.
Before that though, I should point out that even Hollywood thinks it is a bad idea.
True, in part. But, along with it you also get the baggage. And an absolutely massive one is that said heroes are often actually portrayed as anti-heroes, loners and outcasts. Which is not the kind of associations you want drawn to a police force.
And the most notable exception, which has the most public recognition, thanks to blockbuster movies, is the X-Men. Where there is a war going on between humanity and the mutants.
Which is not only waaay worse for the police, it is also bad for the greater community at large.
From day one Archon has got to work at establishing that super heroes are not outsiders. They have to do everything they can to enhance the similarities and commonalities between normal humans and super humans.
If people think of a member of Arc-SWAT as being ‘like me, but with extra powers” then they have done a good job. If the public instead think “one of those super humans”, they have failed. The former is engendering a common community, growing together to combat rogue elements of society.
Whereas the latter is making the public differentiate between ‘them and us’.
Using a uniform based on regular human SWAT outfits is in keeping with that philosophy. Having neon spandex, capes (except for fabrimancers, of course) and, even worse, individualised uniforms, breaks that. It only serves to highlight the differences. And show that, amongst supers, no two are alike. That they cannot even don a common uniform.
It also places a divide between Archon and the rest of the arms of the military and the police force.
Alternatively, having familiar uniforms helps them consider themselves to be all part of one big happy extended family.
Here though, going the military route, rather than the police route does have some drawbacks. I would suggest that Ashley advise that, at least one of the uniforms (say the dress uniform), be made with a very police feel to it.
And that would be a very good compromise. The photos of Archon getting awards, or meeting the president, will have them looking like police. Yet, because SWAT have military style uniforms, most people will not bat an eye at seeing them in similar types of gear, as Arc-SWAT.
Ok comic fans will grumble but they are not the target populace for this policy. They are already fans of super heroes. You could put them in loin cloths, or hide them in full battler armour, and comic fans will still love super heroes. It is the rest of the public who’s opinion you must sway if you wish to avoid a bloody war between homo obsoltetus and homo super-human.
Seeing soldiers wearing regular camo clothes off duty is different than seeing a division from the army, in army uniform, show up on your doorstep
At least they’re actually military. Though personally I prefer solid uniforms to camo.
Lots of actual police units in US are wearing hand-me-down camo uniforms more and more often.
Nitpick: You mean “camo,” short of camouflage, not “cameo.”
Hah hah, yes, I do.
I admit I want to see Halo in cameo gear; It’d, what, have pictures of other favorite webcomic characters on it?
It makes you look like a janitor, security guard, etc…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8m-NxpUIP0
…Or even looking like Lou Ferigno’s hitchhiker cameo…
Sydney in Cameo gear? Mind totally boggled.
I think Sydney could swing a cod piece. Great place to hide holdouts.
…
…
But…but…doesn’t wearing a codpiece prevent it from swinging?…
The cod piece was originally designed to be a man purse.
But due to boys being boys it became something else
So they put their cod in their man purse? Very flexible thinking back then. Very flexible…
Well, it was flexible when still in use as a purse. When they used it for something else is when the material became more…rigid.
Ooo.. anyone else getting a Walter and Seras vibe from panel #4?
Well sydney IS technically a police girl now, even if she isnt a “big tittied policed girl”
The problem with the air tank idea, imo, is that unless she is using it every time her shield goes up, it wont be useful since by the time she realizes her air is getting stale she is already barely able to react to the danger. And if she is using it all the time, there would be a lot of “MMM mmm MMMMMMMM!” type communication moments. Maybe they could stick to a more sci fi version of those nose cannula connected to oxygen tanks they have in hospital? Its not meant to replace your need to breathe, but it supplements what you are bringing in. So with less oxygen being wasted, a tank can last longer and be a more reasonable size. Especially if dabbler was willing to tweak it.
It should take longer than has been shown in comic for her air to become unbreathable. Between that and a sensor of some kind to test the air and beep at her she should be more than fine. She should probably never need it sooner than 10 minutes and if I remember past discussions right probably a LOT longer than that.
Unless there is some kind of extended chase scene or maybe exploring an enemy compound of some size etc… she should rarely need it when working with the team. I would think where it would be really handy is if she uses the shield to enter hazardous environments for rescue or disaster cleanup work. (maybe helps with repairing a secret underwater base… oddball environment stuff like that. )
Of course there will be that one arc where the villain released something into the air or made everyone sick with an airborne or contact pathogen and Sydney has to keep the shield up for however long it takes to save the whole city plus headquarters. Then the little tank she had made up cause, “you’ll never need more than an hour or two in an unexpected emergency” will not have enough air to keep her going all day so she will have a short time limit for ultimate suspense.
Stuff writes itself.
Well.. an airtank big enough to make a difference would encumber Sydney too much.. but a rebreather could be a good idea. After all it’s the CO2 that is the problem first.
Even better idea, refurbish tube into carbon dioxide scrubber. She carry it anyway and it could have dual purpose.
Dual purpose? Good idea. You can use the captured CO2 to make carbonated soft drinks. :)
She could have it on wheels with straps and use a combination of fly orb/hentorb to move it until it’s shieldy time.
The smaller tanks would buy you plenty of time to think. Since super strategy come up with on the fly seems to be her thing I would think she would be grateful for an additional 3-4 minutes for carrying around a little 6 cu bottle or if she is expecting trouble a 13 cu one would buy more than twice that time. Plus she seems pretty small and so she could probably get more use out of them than a larger person especially if she can stay calm and use the flight orb to move large distances rather than exert herself.
So say the little 6 CU plus rebreather for regular work where she isn’t expecting to have to keep the shield up super long would allow her plenty of time to deal with the unexpected and think about where her next breath is coming from if the cavalry hasn’t arrived by then.
And of course keep the big ones in their field vehicle on all missions in case something crops up.
Hmm… I know it’s based on real life camo, but I can’t shake the feeling that it looks out of place compared to the rest of the art. It’s almost like it’s too… dense? Too busy? Too detailed? I don’t know, maybe it’s just me.
My issue is that it’s form fitting; something you don’t want in camouflage
That said, it also seems a bit… subdued, in a comic rife with bright colors and exaggerated light effects
HAH. Great page name Dave! I always loved The Last Starfighter!
I was worried no one under 38 would get that reference. :)
Given that Alan Dean Foster is my favourite author, and he wrote the novelization of the film, it has a fond place in my heart.
You have good taste.
But does he taste good?
Inquiring minds want to know.
I have been told that I taste yummy.
Honestly I got it but I’m 42. Still fricken awesome.
Grig: I’ll have it all figured out by the time we reach the Frontier.
[alarm sounds]
Alex: What’s that?
Grig: The Frontier.
“Centari? I should have known.”
Have it on my DVD shelf, much to the shame of my wife, and daughter.
*bad guys mothership spiraling into the gravity well of the moon* Adjutant: What do we do!? Captain: *matter of fact tone* We die.
I’m surprised no one thought about giving Sydney a rebreather like James Bond had in Thunderball or Die Another Day.
I believe Batman has one too.
https://www.entertainmentearth.com/images/AUTOIMAGES/FT408072lg.jpg
Qui-Gon had it before Bond…
I love the fact* that, after the Bond movie was originally shown (where he used the pocket-sized re-breather/ mini-air tank), that the film company was approached by the US military, to ask details about how it worked. Only to have it explained that it was just a prop, and the actor was actually just holding his breath!
* Veracity unchecked, but it tickled me enough to mentally file it as if it were. I seem to recall seeing it in an interview with one of the film crew.
Actually it was with one of the prop people and it was the British navy not the U.S. that put in the call.
*scratches head in a bemused fashion*
But surely the Admiralty would know what equipment they issued to Commander James Bond?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderball_(film)
For reference
A quick note that things like that happened in Star Trek too. Specifically when the doors opened and closed on the original show a company asked how they got them to close so quickly and quietly. The answer? Two guys, one on each side pushed and pulled the doors on cue.
Aye, that was a high-class hotel. Still, they figured it out eventually!
There was also the injector “Bones” used. A company was developing something like it and wanted to know how they knew about it.
Even though Qui-gon had a rebreather before James Bond did (“A long time ago…”), it was still in a society that had a much higher level of technology than Earth does today (“a galaxy far away”).
;)
Oh, I tried to resist this, for so long. But the dark side of the force was too strong, in that comment.
Thunderball release date: 9 December 1965
George Lucas did not even start writing the plot summaries, for what eventually became Star Wars, until 1973.
So, settings wise, ‘a long time ago’ does come first. But James Bond was first in any other respect.
Yeah… I forgot that it was in Thunderball as well as in Die Another Day, and had been skim-reading the comments. >_<
I did say ‘Thunderball’ in my original comment :)
Milquetoast.
And now my vocabulary expands by another word!
One day, I shall catch them all! +_+
(Anyone else want to admit they looked it up, even though context implied the definition?)
I have not yet. But I am getting my margarine ready, as we speak. Not sure what else to put on the toast. What goes well with milque? I am thinking strawberry jam and cheese.
Ooh, maybe just a cheese toasty? mmm.
I didn’t but admittedly, I am older than many in here and have read & watch more than most people my age. Before I actually read it many, many years ago I used to think it was spelled milktoast.
Meh, I already knew his first name was Caspar. Although I did just look it up to be sure before I posted. I have a brobdingnagian vocabulary.
If you happen to play Incredible Island or Puppet Nightmares games online & see someone by the name of Milquetoast there, well…
Sorry…Impossible Island, not Incredible.
You’ll have to work fast – they keep inventing new ones.
Ex: “dronie” (selfie taken using a drone).
*people stare*
…well, it’s new to me!
Quartermaster, I require a shrubbery!
But it must be really teeny and live in a dome, attached to my air tank. I like the air tasting fresh and natural, rather than bottled.
Oh, no you don’t – We know what doggies really want with shrubberies. You can go outside in your designated area just like always.
Ashley: *Bounces the regular gear off of Yorp’s head* Nope. Too expensive, you get the SIS instead.
(SIS: Standard Issue Shit)
Awww, where’s Ashley’s Who’s Who?
It is now up.
You are official now.
*sniffs* It’s a great day to be me. I’m in a friggin’ comic book, and I get to see it not once, but TWICE, before deployment. Everything is awesome.
The power to control textiles clothing, now that’s a dangerous power. Think about it. everybody wears clothes. He can lift people up and use them as a shield, or control their bodies to fight for him and if they are wearing a necktie or a scarf, he can easily choke them to submission.
Also, found the ninja at the upper right corner of the second panel… and I shall name him Waldo.
I will be perfectly honest, that was pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I was deciding on what I wanted to do for my Cameo character.
“Jeeze, I want to be badass and dangerous, but kinda funny so I can fit in the background… wait a tic, what if I was making all the gear?”
Call it a ‘Lightbulb’ moment.
Does Ashley’s ability include the manipulation of wire cloth?
W.O.G gives the final-final on this, but from my standpoint, yes. If it can be ‘woven’ or works as thread, then it’s manipulable by his powers.
Metals and Plastics and the like are, however, not as flexible in their uses and take more time for him to manipulate, with the exception of making them razor sharp at a moments notice. Garrote wire as easy as *snap*
And/or metal threads?
See above response.
Think of his “Magneto” jail – all guards and visitors would have to go naked, or maybe wear plastic bags?
Plastic is used to make clothing these days.
Use robots for the guards .
Hey, stop ruining the visualisations!
“Visualizing what Ashley could do with Yorp’s leash”
“That doesn’t go there!!!” *grabs the brain bleach*
We used to have a frequent commenter named Waldo here, some time ago…I wonder where he went?
*tearful look in eyes*
I have not seen him in ages. And I keep looking! Where is he?
Unless it’s the female in which case we shall call her Carmen.
Ah, I see that Ashley has Harem’s outfit ready…
Screams “Heatwave” to me…
Ashley: MY TALENTS ARE WASTED! *sobs*
Just as long as it is for one of the ladies and not one of the guys we will appreciate all your hard work.
https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080118
I thought so initially as well, then I noticed it: the outfit has Arianna’s proportions
I’m sure he has projects outside of the military so making a dress for Arianna would not be unrealistic.
Read his who’s who.
I blinked when I translated Naval EOD to Naval Explosive Ordinance Disposal. I guess that he can make very strong cloth armour. Very much supported by his handle “Iron Cloth”. Assuming that Ashley was appropriately placed to make good use of his super-powers.
Other alternatives are that the military applied its usual logic of sending mosquito repellent for troops on an Antarctic mission. Or that I picked the wrong translation.
Nope, you’re correct. He was Explosive Ordinance Disposal Petty Officer 2nd Class (if Dave backs me up on it anyway, I might be tooting my horn a lot but the word-of-god is of course his) before he got picked up for ARCHON.
And as I alluded to somewhere on this page or another, he got snapped up by ARCHON after a incident in the Navy. Suffice to say, it was a blast.
Side Note: The super-cloth-clothing-armor is the main source of his name, but his abilities stretch far beyond that in many varying creative directions. Think Green Lantern, only with clothing and no power-ring. Exact power levels determined by W.O.G.
So.. basically Ashley stuffed lots of explosives in a “disguise” and let it walk itself to the target? nice!
Took me a second to realize that was what was going on there. I thought maybe there was an invisible woman walking around in those clothes, but then I realized – that’s like the one major super-hero archetype missing from this comic. I think Sydney or Dabbler could pull off pseudo-invisibility (of the mind-control-ignore-me variety), but it’s not quite the same thing.
(I get why there are problems with having a hero that can turn invisible except for their clothes – it means when they reappear they have to be completely nude, which doesn’t fit the PG-13 nature of this comic I suppose. That was kind of the worst/best part of Invisible Girl’s powers in the Fantastic 4 movies.)
We already know that Ashley has at least TWO Fashion Ninjas on his team. From there it isn’t much of a stretch to imagine him employing an invisible person as well.
Mr X anyone?
I think ARCDARC has dibs on him.
Military’s have various different uniforms for different occasions. You have the main one & then several version of the dress uniform for differing levels of fancy. A little fancy but you can still work. More fancy for going to dinners. And the full fancy for when you’re in trouble or getting awarded or meeting a high ranked individual.
Ahh all the technical terms perfectly explained.
:-D
Hmmm….
Sydney + airtank + forcefield orb + flight orb = instant spaceship?
Yup. Or submarine.
But with a few issues. Such as navigation, sunburn and potential radiation exposure.* Plus the limited air supply. And, as pointed out by another commentator, that carbon monoxide build up is still potentially deadly, in a confined environment. Scuba diving works because that is vented to the ocean, rather than being confined.
But Sydney can only do that by lowering the shield. Thus exposing herself to de-pressurisation (in space) or crushing pressure (if deep underwater). So air-scrubbing is wise if planning any extended trip.
However, for tactical combat purposes, such as the battle in the Steak House/ car park, even a few minutes air supply can be invaluable to her. Significantly increasing her combat options in such circumstances. And if she happens to be on the ISS, or any other space-craft/submarine, that springs a leak, knowing she can improvise her own craft could save her life. She just needs to ensure she grabs the right bits of life support equipment, to maximise her chances!
But, even without any such, she can just make as big a shield as she can form in the circumstances, to capture as much air as possible. Provided she knows of somewhere with life support, near enough for her to fly to with that amount of air, that can be sufficient, on it’s own.
Once Halo has reached a safe haven, she need merely come to a complete stop, and can then swap the fly ball for the tentacle orb, in order to open airlock doors and the like.
* We would hope that the shield will protect from dangerous levels, but it is always worth bearing in mind that testing is better than hoping.
… so Sydney’s now going to star in the Explorers? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089114/ …. and ALL OF MY 80’s SCI-FI IS PRESENT!
(cue thunder generator)
“…that carbon monoxide build up…”
Sydney would have to be burning something in there to get “monoxide” build up…
Ooops.
Darn. So used to using that term. Comes from living with a wood burner, as my heat source for winter. In a village full of folks who do the same. Kind of highlights my lack of chemistry education too mind.
Depending on the amount of radiation the shield blocks, neither sunburn nor radiation exposure (the first being a symptom of the second) would be a problem
Using the power of her airtank Sydney is able to breath in enviroments were other heroes cannot. Fear criminals for your out of breath when facing……The Oxygeneral! I know she’s not a general yet but maybe one day!
Sydney having command over other people, possibly other supers. Now that is a truly terrifying thought.
:P
She was delivering battlefield orders yesterday.
She was surprisingly awesome at it.
So…yeah, it could happen.
Guess Sydney’s gonna be going to the prep course after all…!
I look forward to it. In her interactions at the base, Sydney has already achieved pushing Max to the “Double-Facepalm-With-Fetal-Position” pose. At the very least, I’m hoping that she can push Arianna to multiple HeadDesks.
ESPECIALLY if Arianna tries “Let’s Role-Play An Interview” (which seems probable). Given Sydney’s RPG experience, that could go weird very quickly.
Maybe Sydney will sleep through it,much to the annoyance of Arianna?
She better hope that Kim Jong-un is not one of the invited role-players. Or she could find herself being shot to pieces, by anti-aircraft fire!
Alternatively, Arianna may set up what SHE calls a ‘role-play scenario’, only to have Sydney derail proceedings (and undoubtedly confuse the hell out of Arianna) by loudly announcing her action to be “I waste him with my crossbow!”
Anyone recognizing THAT reference is indeed a kindred spirit. ;)
Props for reminding Sydney that Ballistic vests arent “bulletproof” any likelihood of mentions of their other issues, like their limited useful life and so forth (from degradation of the fibres ect even when extremely carefully maintained)?
Iron Cloth / Ashley needs a Who’s Who entry – he now has a speaking role. Or is he not up because we don’t officially have a name yet?
He did get a speaking part before. But it actually requires an introduction too, as you say. However, he got that in panel 4, so DaveB has now updated the entry.
If you refresh your memory cache, it should appear. Eg if using Chrome, hit Ctrl-F5.
First thing in my head after the Air-tank comment …. those scuba ninja’s from Naruto
I see someone beat me to the re-breather AND CO2 scrubber comments. -tries to think of other possible ideas-
How big can she make the shield? Could it enclose an entire oak-tree, for example? We can do CO2 scrubbing the NATURAL way!
He he. Good thinking. A lot of smaller, broad-leafed plants is best mind. In terms of weight/volume taken up versus the air recycling benefit.
I saw an article, last year, where a list of common plants, that were especially good at the task, was listed. And gave an example of a mix which would work to sustain one human. Purely for the purposes of illustrating how many plants we need to keep alive on the planet, when scaled up, in order to ensure that we have enough air to breathe.
With the emphasis on how we could plant urban spaces with those species, in order to improve the air quality in crowded citeis. So it was not aimed at ‘how to build your own enclosed eco-system’, as that is a bit more complicated (albeit that we do have a couple of major projects working on just that.
*sigh* I could not find it last time I looked though, so won’t waste my time repeating the exercise. But it would be handy. Either if Sydney needed to improvise the USS Halo. Or if Russia looks like lobbing nukes around.
*wanders off muttering to self*
Ok, first dig a deep hole. Then put a lot of mirrors at the top, to reflect light down. Mmm, gonna need something air-tight, but that will let the light in. Yet which is not vulnerable to breaking in a shock wave.
And make sure that the volume of light being captured takes into account reduction in ambient light, due to nuclear winter effects.
Mmm, plus will need NBC gear to go out and clean fallout off those mirrors. And they need to be pretty resilient too. But need not be put in place during the first strike. Although I would rather not be erecting mirrors in the immediate aftermath, I guess that is better than them being smashed.
I think that a lot of people would notice if Sydney started dragging a full-grown oaktree into action.
They were wearing dress uniforms to a formal event. I think it’s only the Army that doesn’t have dress uniforms. Think about the Marine dress blues. Plot hole covered.
All branches have dress uniforms.
It’s just some are more dressy than others.
https://www.google.com/search?q=u.s.+army+dress+uniform&biw=962&bih=601&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=DZhUVfSbJYbHsAXpxYHwCg&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQ7Ak
If anything, the uniforms that they were wearing for the press conference looked more like a Service Uniform (something administrative personnel or security would be wearing around base), often used to show a ‘on duty’ status, and quick identification of that person’s job and rank from a glance, much like the Navy Service Uniform.
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=Navy+NSU&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=M6ZUVcm_GoOB8gXVhYCIDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=_
While these are more like traditional Camies (Camouflaged Field Uniforms) or ‘Working’ uniforms. For Example, Navy Working Uniforms or NWU’s.
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=Navy+NSU&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=M6ZUVcm_GoOB8gXVhYCIDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=Navy+Nwu
I miss the Salt and Pepper’s for service uniform, and Blue Dungarees for working uniform. I still have all my uniforms in my garment bag in my closet. (and yes, it is my issue garment bag. My dad has my seabag and is using it to hold his hunting clothing.)
I was an ATAN during 1981-85. Stationed with VS-37.
General Faulk, Max’s CO from the Air Force, is wearing what would be commonly seen as a Dress Uniform. Much more proper looking.
I like Syd’s new uniform, functional and stylish.
Sigh, once again video that’s not available in my country. THANKS friggin media copyright and distribution laws messing with Australia again. :(
Australia often blocks content itself in games and media.
It’s just a clip of Grigg and the Starfighter guy talking as the board the ship. If you can find any clip of Grigg speaking you’ll instantly recognize his voice from Robocop.
Just saw Ashley’s new entry. …So, yeah, don’t ever expect him to panic. Or freeze up in a bad situation.
EOD- If you ever see me running, try to keep up!
*dashes off at right-angles*
Not being sure if the EOD man is running to the bomb or from it.
Always, always from.
EOD never runs towards the bomb. Vibrations could cause it to go off.
An EOD running outranks everyone.
I don’t run, I teleport.
Also: no, Sydney, you don’t have to spend character points to upgrade your gear. Archon isn’t about play balance. Quite the opposite, really.
Wait, Ashley was EOD? I mean, I feel like it would make a little more sense if he was in charge of Laundry on an aircraft carrier or something, that seems like a more practical usage of his abilities, though I expect he would chafe at only being able to clean clothes, not design them. If his telekinesis is strong enough, he could be useful as loading crew or something; wrap crates, parts, ordinance, etc. in fabric then have him move them around.
Of course, they could have used him to fast prototype new uniforms, since no one seems to be able to decided what they want now (fractal patterns people, nothing is better than a good fractal at disguising an outline).
But EOD? He could probably wear many more layers of kevlar, but that should still lower his dexterity, which is what you really really want much of the time. If he’s handling serious ordinance, nothing short of thick metal plates with a vacuum between them would work anyway. Well, there are also some hypothetical meta-materials.
It’s not that EOD doesn’t make any sense, it just seems like he might have been more useful elsewhere.
I just want to say, my grandfather was Army EOD, I have nothing but respect for those guys. I certainly don’t think anyone going into EOD is a waste. I just think his talents might have been a better fit elsewhere. At the very least he should have gone Army :)
I’m a Navy Man from a Navy and Marine family. Ashley is based on me. You can see how that will go.
Also, he didn’t figure out his powers till -after- he was already in the military, for a while at that. Heck, he didn’t know till he was put under some serious stress in the field.
See several above ‘hint-hints’ and you’ll see what I mean.
In that case it makes perfect sense. Now I’m curious what the story behind him finding out his power was. My grandpa used to say there is no bomb so dangerous it can’t be made safe, but any bomb not treated with respect can kill you. According to him, the only time he was genuinely *terrified* was handling the disposal of a cache of gas canisters dug up by accident in Germany.
I’m sure he would have loved talking shop with you, even if you were in the Navy.
And, of course, thank you for your service.
Heh, no worries.
Honestly? Pressure-Activated anything scares the ever-lovin’ outta me, or double/triple triggers. Nothing quite like deactivating ordinance only to discover there’s two more triggers for it, and one of them is something that needs to be disarmed quickly, but disarming it too quickly will set off the other one…
IEDs are somethin’ else.
I kept reading, trying to figure out what kind of a tank an “air tank” was, and why Sydney would assume they would have one. Took three or four reading for the pieces to drop into place.
Yeah, it’s just me…. :-D
Shachar
*flies by, in air car, waving*
“Passes over Yorp’s car in a Bolo mk XXXVIII”
“Main turret salute”
Ashley: *Passes both of you in a M1 Abrams made of yarn, riding on the gun Dr. Strangelove style, hat included.*
I will concede your sarcasm and assume you do what Bolo is.
Ok, now I’m curious- How old do you all think Ashley is? Dead serious, I get a feeling people think he’s really old…
I was not thinking that myself. DaveB is a very good at creating realistic portraits. His depictions of General Faulk and Jonathan Creek were unmistakable. Notably the character, who former is based on, not a young man, and all his years showed.
That said, cartoons are not the best medium for judging the age of a character. And DaveB does mix artistic styles, in this comic. General Faulk being of a strictly realistic type. Whereas, with the fox-tail, Ashley clearly has more than a hint of anime influence. And anime styles do not differentiate age well.
So, personally, I had not tried to assign an age, prior to your comment. But, by comparison, I would say noticeably younger than Jonathan Creek (who is 49*). Probably thirty-something would be the safest bet.
* Watch it Google, I am keeping my eye on you!
30 +/- 3 yrs
Yea, my + was probably unconsciously biased by the knowledge of ‘having served in the military, in a job that, I imagine, has a long training time’. As opposed to purely being an assessment of the depiction. So I would not find a – to be surprising.
Same-ish
Surprise, he’s middle 20 something!
So joined right out of high school and got promoted out of grade once?
Eeyup, and started 3rd class for being top of his class at BUD/S.
Um hey guys, did anyone else notice the walking clothes or was it just me?
Nope just you.
I saw clothes flying (albeit in a manner similar to walking), but not walking…There aren’t even any shoes there, let alone touching the floor.
Mmm, and that observation shoots down my visualisation that it is just stiffened cloth. Definite telekinesis going on there. Unless there are fine threads holding it all up, which are just too small for us to be able to pick out Which is plausible, I guess.
Darn, my pet visualisation is barely holding on by a thread.
https://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
…It’s nothing that’s worth getting all unraveled about…
Ashley’s Power is listed as fabrikinetic
fabrikinetic – fabric focused telekinesis.
Fabric – Noun
1. cloth, typically produced by weaving or knitting textile fibers.
2. the essential structure of something,
– such as the walls, floor, and roof of a building, or the body of a car or aircraft.
late 15th century: from French fabrique, from Latin fabrica ‘something skillfully produced,’ from faber ‘worker in metal, stone, etc.’ The word originally denoted a building, later a machine or appliance, the general sense being ‘something made,’ hence sense 1 (mid 18th century, originally denoting any manufactured material). Sense 2 dates from the mid 17th century.
Fabric – Fabricate, anything fabricated, created of smaller parts or solid structure.
cloth – fibers or strings, weaved knitted or knotted together.
Modern string theory states matter is composed of particles that are manifolds composed of dimensional membranes and strings, which can roll-up and join, to form other strings and loops.
The fabric of space-time is a 4th to 5th dimensional lattice matrix composed of 2-dimensional membranes or 1-dimensional strings.
Reality itself is a fabricated cloth-like structure on the Quantum level
and more resembles a Foam on the atomic level
on the Molecular level many forms of matter form strings
DNA being a prime example which is in all life-forms
not to mention Muscle, hair, and plant fibers on a micro level
why would his powers be limited to macro-scale textiled cloths?
shouldn’t Ashley’s powers encompass everything?
Because it takes him too long to draw himself back to his body when he goes full omniscience required to use his powers to maximum potential, and to properly draw the strings of the universe together to make all of life and death and time and space dance to his will.
Also it gives him a bit of a headache. So he just plays with regular strings instead. Besides, being in the presence of A Being of A Greater Power (not -Higher-, GREATER) and a being of omniscience usually makes other people feel pretty crappy, and he just -hates- making people feel bad. It’s why he decided that getting into Fashion was a good idea.
They may well do just that. But, if you can do anything, why not choose to do something that you enjoy? He is obviously passionate about his role as a tailor. And it is a less stressful job than disarming bombs! Ashley has done his duty for his country. And now he can serve it in a more enjoyable way, that is less likely to kill him.
Messing with the fabric of reality is not to be done idly.
Like I said. It gives him a bit of a headache to go full Omniscience. Soooo… he just kinda lets everything slide and sits in the background, making combat-functional fashion and being awesome.
I was meaning his powers should be described as general telekinesis
I was not trying to imply he has phenomenal cosmic power
or that he is a God or Pharaoh by any means.
I was only pointing out the weird wording
as telekinesis is a power that is Dependant on your knowledge of your surroundings
the more knowledge you have about the structures around you the more you can do with telekinesis
someone with a simple view of the world would be able do basic telekinesis
moving objects around the room, throwing things, using a table as a shield
someone who understands chemistry and what things are composed of
would be able to strip an object down to it’s atoms and reform an object
into something else, such as turning a railroad rail into swords or war-hammers, or you could turn a wall to molten slag.
add physics to your knowledge, and you can perform alchemy,
stripping atoms into electrons neutrons and protons, and reforming the elements
turning iron into Gold, you could take sand and make a working rifle, or turn a tree into a nuclear bomb.
Alright, to narrow it a bit- He has an amazing amount of control over fabics that are often used to make clothing, from spider silk to steel-wool, and everything from the cheapest plastic fabric-fakes to the softest of cottons, hemp and other such things, Ashley can manipulate it. The better and more ‘organic’ in nature the fabric in question, Spider Silk being the absolute best, allows him greater control and better speeds manipulating it into what he needs it to be. Lower quality fabrics = less then great results.
Organic merely means composed of Carbon
Nylon is a poly-amide Carbon chain
while Spider silk is a semi crystallized protein chain
Protein is composed of amino acids
amino acids are carbon based molecules
other than the molecular structure of the chains, there is no difference.
and that only difference is that spider silk is more crystallized
and has less carbon per link.
I suppose there really isn’t any ‘science’ behind it. I hate to put it as ‘Magic A is Magic A’, but I haven’t really thought that deep into it and how it works.
I’m sure Ashley has put some thought of it, but you’ll have to give me time for a better explanation. At this point in time, I’m just gonna have to handwave at it.
if the telekinesis includes feedback,
then the possibilities become quite limitless
using simple telekinesis gives you blind sight
chemistry would allow you to see how something works or what it is
without damaging it, or would allow you to fix something that is damaged,
including wounds if you studied enough biology or medicine.
you could remove poisons from a body, and prevent them from being metabolized
physics would allow you to actually feel the clockwork of the universe
as you reform that clock to serve your will.
Very good points.
This argument is similar to saying you gain all of those powers from a club.
After all, when tap club on wall it give feedback particular to structure of wall…
Club provide echolocation.
Club smash two particle together.
Club push organs from wrong place into right place.
Club Man am best superhero!
*ahem*
My point is that it’s a matter of degree, and folks tend to overestimate how broadly a person’s specialty can be extended. And it gets messy when people make assumptions based on what we know of science when talking about a) a new and scientifically untested phenomenon and b) matters of the human mind, which science is notoriously bad at classifying and therefore comprehending.
you need the knowledge and the trained skill of telekinesis, and the ability to focus the feedback if any.
being able to pick up a table and smash a wall doesn’t mean you can thread a needle.
first you would need to train to pick up two or more objects instead of one.
second you then need to train to rotate the objects around 3 spacial axises with precision
third you need to be able to move two or more objects in different directions and rotations
fourth you need to be able to “see” fine textures with telekinetic blind-sight
fifth you need to be able to use telekinetic blind-sight to accurately tell the weight of what you are holding.
sixth you need to combine all previous skills at the same time.
then you need the knowledge that compliments what you are intending to use the telekinesis for.
there is a lot of study and training that goes into properly using telekinesis
Not that it would _necessarily_ occur to Sydney to test, but I would be curious if Fabrikinesis can work through the shield. Harem cant teleport through it, light based attacks are blocked, AIR is blocked, it is a pretty thorough shield. But TK is weird sometimes…
… Damn it, now -I- want to know.
it blocked Vehemence’s Aura
it’ll block magic, meaning yes it will block telekinesis
Magic is not necessarily the same thing as telekinesis. This setting has shown that there are individuals who practice the occult arts. Whereas others have psionic powers. What counters one need not necessarily block the other.
Dabbler, of course, being the oddity, in that she can do both. Plus has other powers which may be racial in origin and/or super powers, rather than spells or mind powers.
That said though both Vehemence’s power and Iron Cloth’s appear to be of super power origin (as opposed to either magic or psionics). So I would actually agree that the shield probably does block it. But, unless it is experimented with, we can only guess.
if it isn’t explained by science it has to be magic based
if it is explained by science it probably isn’t telekinesis
as it probably has electricity, magnetism, or gravitic being the cause of it.
Not at all true. Obviously you have elevated ‘science’ to the status of ‘God’, in your world-view. You need a reality check. Science is not omniscient. And things can exist which are outside of our current realm of knowledge, without it being magic.
We have a number of physicists and science teachers as readers, who will corroborate this view.
Now I will step into the realms where science dare not tread. Because it is ill-qualified to do so. Science has not been able to explain paranormal events. It cannot rule them out, as it has been unable to replicate them. But, those that may exist do not need to have a magical explanation to them.
Telepathy, precognition, ESP and the like do not involve magic rituals. If they are proven to function, then it will be because they are a function of how our mind works. As opposed to, say being invoked by calling on the dark powers.
Note people might be tempted to invoke the quote that ‘any sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic’. But that is not pertinent here. As no technology is involved. It is simply a natural product of the mind.
Again with the caveat of ‘if proven to be true’. However it is extremely unscientific to define anything not understood by science to equate to being magic.
If you do that you need to explain that gravity works ‘by magic’.
Likewise other paranormal phenomenon might have a basis in fact. Ghosts could be personalities captured by some natural phenomenon. Recording a snapshot of people, and replaying it somehow, years after they have died. The rarity and non-replicable nature of the phenomenon being explainable by the fact that it requires very unusual circumstances to happen. Rather than it being the product of necromancy.
Or perhaps there is such a thing as an afterlife, and ghosts may be a by-product. Do we have incontrovertible evidence of that? No. But does that mean that it is not true? No.
And then, of course, you have possible divine explanations. Should God (or gods) actually exist, your belief in them, or lack, would not necessarily bother her (/them). Other than possibly being ticked off at you, of course. But, that aside, if something happens as a divine act, it is defined as a miracle, rather than being magic.
Here, of course, you are free to say ‘as a person of science, I consider miracles to be just another way of saying magic, and as God does not exist, then miracles do not either’. But, as I stated above, this is another area that science is ill-equipped to handle.
And, if you use a tool that is poor for a job, you have only yourself to blame if the results are not what you expect. So, for your own sake, it is best not to try and make Science into a God. It weakens your arguments, and may serve you even more badly than just that.
Science and Mathematics is the study of the Physical World and patterns viewed in that study.
Magic is the term used to describe things not explainable by the hard sciences such as Spiritualism, Aura based abilities, psionic abilities, Occult, and Theistic.
Hard sciences
Applied Quantum mechanics is sub-atomic Physics,
Applied Sub-atomic Physics is chemistry, and Physics
Applied chemistry is Biology and Chemical engineering
Applied Physics is structural and computer science and engineering.
Applied Biology and Chemical Engineering is Medicine.
The Hard Sciences are interconnected, and experiments can be repeated.
The soft sciences
such as psychology is not connected to the hard sciences as it can only be studied on an individual or cultural level, and as such would include the study of Magic and Spiritualism.
The problem with the soft sciences is that each person is different, and views the world in a different way. as such it’s impossible to actually recreate any soft science experiment as there is no true concept of a control group. and each test subject is different from the other subjects.
regardless of the fact that magic would be capable of affecting the physical world
magic would be viewed as changing the probability of the situation the magic is being used in. in essence magic is a tool used to temporarily or permanently break how the universe works. while science is the study of how the universe is currently working. magic has the ability to rewrite the laws of the universe.
No, it is not.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/magic
Wiktionary
magic
based on supernatural or occult knowledge
to manipulate or obtain information about the natural world
associated with supernatural magic or with mysticism; a spell
Something producing remarkable results, especially when not fully understood
the appearance of supernatural phenomena or powers
that is exactly What I have been saying and meant.
Best definition of magic I have ever run across goes something like this,
Magic; Knowledge that is currently beyond my personal/cultures understanding.
If you can get it read H. Beam Piper’s “Oomphell in the sky” it deals wonderfully with a primitive society dealing with a sufficiently advanced technology and it’s makers.
I note that you cut your quote (“Something producing remarkable results, especially when not fully understood”) short of this bit:
[from 17th c.]
Ie. in quoting the 3rd definition, the one last prevalent in the 17th century, you are showing that you are not using the term as it is used and understood in the 21st century.
In the present era we have science to explain the world.
In the 17th century, that which was not understood was indeed held to be the work of magic. They did not have science in their lexicon so only had the choice of ‘act of god’ or ‘magic’, for things they could not explain.
I am afraid that you are simply demonstrating that you do not understand that which you are trying to champion. The application of science maybe. But not the philosophy of it, nor the best practices in thinking about and discussing it.
I hope you do not try to explain, at a job interview, that “the hunt for dark matter is an occult practice, which is seeking to find the dark magic which makes gravity work.” Because, in pushing for that definition of magic, that is pretty much what you are saying.
Modern English has a bunch of words used to describe ‘things which we do not understand’. You are simply being lax in extending the definition far too broadly.
And it is not an idle distinction either. Various African countries are having to ban magical practices and practitioners. Because they like to use the parts from endangered species, in order to cast their spells. And, even worse, they kidnap and kill humans (especially favouring albinos), for the same purposes.
Such bans would not apply to people studying paranormal phenomenon, ESP, ghost hunters or other such activities.
They are not the same things and should not be confused by either lax thinking or lazy linguistics.
Magic can best be classified as that which we do not understand.
Reference; When missionaries were seen reading and writing by less “developed”
natives they considered it a form of magic.
So if we take that a step or 2 further how would you explain a person who is using no identifiable tools carving a “perfect” representations of you from a block of stone.
And all you see is them making a few gestures.
Your arguments are prefect for describing how a pre-scientific culture does explaining the world. So it is no different to the situation I described for Western thinking in the 17th century. Except that it could have been a 20th century missionary, but speaking to someone with a technological understanding far below even what was available in 17th century Europe.
For such primitive cultures “Magic can best be classified as that which we do not understand.” is an appropriate thing to say. Especially as it can be rearranged for them to say “That which we do not understand is magic”.
To them it made no difference.
To the modern observer though, we know that there is a difference. Namely that once understood reading is not magic
So be very wary what things you label as being magic. Because the modern scientific mind equates ‘magic’ with being ‘impossible’. Anything which a scientist consider to be impossible they do not investigate.
So if you stumble across an alien book, and decide that it is magic, you will never learn how to read it.
At one stage calling upon the devil, illusions, curses, hypnotism, stage magic and conjuration were all considered to be magic. And many people today would not see any distinction either. Certainly not someone with as lax a definition as we are debating here.
But in that list is hypnotism. Which we know is not magic. Yet it is still looked down upon, of course. But it is very real, and is now fairly well understood. And can be a very useful tool for helping to give up addictions, exploring suppressed memories and making scientists prance around on a stage, flapping their arms and saying ‘baaawk’, whilst thinking they are a chicken.
Every time a scientist includes a subject that could potentially have merit and actually be real, in a classification which renders it as being ‘not real and not worthy of investigation’ they are are closing their minds to the possibility that it is real.
On one paw this would be no great loss. Such individuals are clearly not visionaries, so are unlikely to be amongst those who make a true breakthrough discovery. Even if they had the fortuitous accident, that all aspiring scientists dream of, which allows them a glimpse of an unknown scientific property. And could grant them a Nobel prize.
Because they will simply dismiss it out of hand as ‘a fluke’ or ‘that is weird’, and then move on to the mundane things that they are comfortable thinking about.
So it is no loss to the world.
What is bad though, is when they seek to repress the visionaries who may make such discoveries. And the real trouble is that such attitudes are endemic in academic circles. As shown in this very thread, any study outside of the hard sciences is looked down upon.
And the further out you go the worse it gets. With, of course, the worst being reserved for those few brave souls who doom their careers by investigating the paranormal.
But the repercussions harm every level of science. I have even come across a Nobel prize winner who actually made his breakthrough as a graduate. However he realised that it was too radical for the institution to accept his concept.
He had to wait until he had tenure before he had free reign to actually work on the project. A delay, to the world, of several decades. And had he been run over by a bus, or otherwise failed to progress his career to tenure, then the world would never have seen the results.
And that is not an isolated incident. Simply an example of a common problem. Closed-minded scientists, and insular institutions, hold back science itself.
Part and parcel of which is dismissing everything that science is not good at explaining out of hand. One way of which that being done is to lump it all under the trashcan labled ‘Magic’.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world.
The unreasonable man adapts the world to him.
Who do you think makes the great discoveries?
The unreasonable man, who is not wearing blinkers. Because the part of the world that is easiest to change is the social world. So the unreasonable man, who has blinded himself to the greater possibilities in the world, will change his social world to suit his comfort zone. Rather than trying to change the greater world.
Of course, reasonable men will not fight against the peer pressure, and risk academic condemnation, for ignoring the status quo. In doing so, though, they are aiding and abetting the stagnation of science.
Whereas the visionary unreasonable man will focus his drive on achieving that which other people consider to be impossible. Ignoring the closed-minded, when they tell him that he is wasting his time. Even when they try to revoke his tenure.
Then, being unreasonable, when he wins his Nobel prize, he makes sure to tell the world what knob-heads his blinkered colleagues were, for his entire career.
I have a theory that explains gravity, still working on how to write a thesis for it.
basic theory is dimensional resonance of the 5-D fabric of space-time interacting with matter. which would explain why gravity is so weak compared to other forces.
as for paranormal phenomena you sort of have to assume people have souls and the existence of an afterlife to have any hope at studying it. also helps to be spiritual or religious when exploring the subject. ghosts would best be described as those who have died and are either confused about, or refused to accept their death. or have some desire they wish to be fulfilled before crossing over to the other side.
Or are temporal echoes embedded in the surrounding walls and objects, that were present during the death or murder of the original person, basically a temporal holographic replay of the last moments of that person’s life, including their psychic imprint. the replay activated by the Aura of the living when they enter the location. the more people at the seance the stronger the replay will be.
In short, the best scientist is one who realizes how little he actually knows, but still has the drive to learn. All of human knowledge ever learned throughout our entire history is directly derived from one thing & one thing only: When we perceive something that occurs naturally, we observe it & try to learn how & why Nature is doing it.
It’s the overall Laws of Nature that govern over the fact that this universe (& ourselves too!) exists & continues to perpetuate through time…Every bit of knowledge that we label as “scientific fact” is nothing more than what we’ve learned of the Laws of Nature. People call the unknown “supernatural” for a reason…It’s something that operates on a Natural level that supersedes our own (albeit limited) understanding of Nature.
Magic or supernatural doesn’t have to follow the rules of this universe.
what if something works on the principles of another universe
while still being able to exist in this one?
it follows none of the rules of our universe
and would therefore have to be referred to as magic tech
or you have to list the zipcode of it’s universe when talking about it
what if you don’t know which universe it came from?
“how does that demon gun work?”
“magic Tech”
or
“T4b8-a5J3 Tech”
which would be the best answer?
maybe it’s “racist” to say something is magic just because it uses different laws of physics. Does the Gun have feelings now?
Are you saying we can’t call it magic because it might be the wrong adjective?
you don’t even know what universe it came from in the first place what else are we supposed to say?
Even if you consider magic to work on Natural principles indigenous to a different universe, a dimension that exists on a different “vibrational frequency” from this universe for example, it’s still a part of existence…Which means that the overall Laws of Nature allows it to exist.
I think the confusion occurs when people confuse our own “egocentric perceptions” with our own universe & then think of something outside of our perceptions as being outside of Natural Law.
+1
“Puts out a plate of cookies for MD.”
Peanut butter chocolate chip ones
You got peanut butter in my chocolate!
But I like it.
:)
I think it is a mistake to talk of ‘The Laws Of Nature’. That term suggests that natural forces , or more specifically our understanding of them, are fixed, unchanging, totally predictable, etc..
To borrow a famous line from a certain movie, probably best to think of such things as “more like a set of guidelines“.
All of human knowledge is directly derived from what we can perceive, observe & study until we understand it. All of human knowledge is nothing more than our limited understanding of the Laws of Nature. As long as any scientific discipline still has room for “theory” to contemplate over, it’s something we still don’t know for certain.
An interesting point with that: We have official confirmation that the visual “literally hypnotic” quality of Dabbler’s breasts can get through the shield.
Not sure whether that means anything, since we don’t know whether it’s a natural quality of them or a magical quality capable of penetrating the shield, or if it got through the shield because it is, in itself, not harmful.
Don’t forget that Dabbler has a vast repertoire of capabilities all focussed to a very narrow end. And Sydney had already been heavily exposed to those earlier in the evening. So she may well simply have been affected by that, even if only psychologically. The shield cannot protect Sydney from what is already in her own mind.
Other options include that she can be dosed with pheromones, a lingering spell or a host of other capabilities. Some of which Dabbler might not even consciously have been utilising. To a succubus enchanting people may be as reflexive as breathing is, for us.
Or, of course, the hypnoboobs may indeed be capable of penetrating the shield. :-D
But even that can be rationalised in a way that does not give an automatic pass for other kinds of super powers. Note that drivers can by hypnotised by travelling at a certain speed, past obstacles paced at a regular pattern along the road.
Some serious accident black-spots have been found to be caused by this effect. So modern road building education has to teach students how to avoid replicating such conditions accidentally.
Fortunately, curing such a black-spot is easy, once it has been identified. Simply altering the distance between telephone poles, changing the speed limit and so on, can disrupt the effect.
But, back to the hypnoboobs, if they are simply using a natural hypnotic effect, but are just naturally optimised for the purpose (and humans are very much keyed to respond to cues such as breasts, to start with), then there is no reason why the shield should be able to protect against that.
All that is passing is the normal light, which it is designed to let through. No magic involved.*
* Note hypnotism used to be a kind of magic that science did not understand. And as such was dismissed as not being real, the product of delusional minds and superstitious belief in magic.
But, move on a generation, or two, once it has been shown to actually exist, then it mysteriously becomes a scientific phenomenon and not magic. Scientists can be devious, hypocritical, lying sorts, you see.** Yet everything else, which has not yet been proven, they** still claim is ‘magic’ and not real.
** Apart from the nice, insightful ones, who do not claim more from science than it can actually do.
Just loving the artistry of the privacy screen, it’s floral ornamentation, and how that interacts with Sydney’s shadowy silhouette. The translucency is absolutely spot on. And you can even see the lighting on the wall, showing that there must be a light source, beyond Sydney and the screen. So it all holds together seamlessly.
Great art and colourisation.
A little of topic, but since we are discussing bullets did anyone see the report that North Korea’s ‘dear leader’ recently executed a cabinet minister for treason because he fell asleep at a political rally? The method was said to be by ‘anti-aircraft artillery’. Satellite images show the site to have six four-barrel 50-caliber guns lined up in a row. Getting hit by 24 of those shots would not leave much. Is he auditioning to be cast as the next Bond villain?
https://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/13/us-northkorea-purge-idUSKBN0NY01J20150513
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/01/does-north-korea-execute-people-with-anti-aircraft-guns-new-satellite-images-suggest-the-rumors-may-be-true/
Yea, I just happened to mention that above. The BBC reported that it had been alleged that he had fallen asleep.
And that guy was the last of his father’s pall-bearers, other than Kim Jong-un himself, who has not either been imprisoned, vanished from public view or been openly executed. Which does show severe signs of insecurity for a national leader.
Very worrying for both their populace and anybody within ballistic missile range of a coastline. Once their submarine program has been upgraded to that capability, anyhow. Which could be in as little as five years, according to some experts (ignoring the ‘test firing’ photo op, given that, even if real, it was only a test). Throw in even their limited nuclear production capability, and he has a recipe that is not conducive to his own health.
Even his allies will be wary of him now, if he is casually bumping off people that close to him. Will any of them be happy with him having his finger on the button? Let alone his actual enemies. And North Korea is still technically at war with the U.S., and others.
All that, of course, assuming that the ‘executed’ guy does not pop up on TV in the next few days and say that ‘rumours of my death were unsubstantiated’. But there does seem to be a body of evidence that makes that possibility less likely.
“Even his allies will be wary of him now, if he is casually bumping off people that close to him.”
Joseph Stalin had a similar problem with paranoia…
“…a body of evidence…”
Considering the rumored method used for execution, producing the habeous corpus seems a bit irrelevant…
Kim must be a Bruce Willis fan…
Sydney turned her sass mode into overdrive today holy crap. Full sass mode activate.
All right, people! Halo needs a utility belt. What all should she have on it? Please keep in mind that she is petite and not overly muscle-bound. A high-tech re-breather is a good start. I see Halo in more of a support/recon role until she shows herself capable of being in the middle of a fight. She seems to do quite well in an advisory capacity, so binoculars would be ideal. We can get pretty fancy without adding too much weight. 1st Aid kit. One of those flashlights that you can strap onto your forehead. A better radio system, kind of like making her a WIFI hot spot. A tasor (not sure she needs a gun). Glow sticks. Food bars. Other recommendations, please.
She is a cop, so restraints,
taserand other tools of the trade are rather a must.– Definitely a good aerial map of her home city.
– A pair of those novelty glasses with the eyebrows and mustache so when she creates her remote hologram she will be ‘in disguise’.
– A can of pepper spray capable of being deployed at the end of the lighthook.
– A small high powered strobe light. She can use the lighthook to hold it in from of an opponent’s face to either distract him from attacking someone else, or open him up to being attacked. The same goes for a small very loud siren. A few flash-bangs wouldn’t hurt.
– A cop style body mounted video-cam, to keep a record of what is going on.
– Some tear gas canisters. She can throw one then put up her shield.
– A Sydney-rang. (Arianna needs accessories for the action figures)
– A pouch for extra doses of her meds, in case of a long mission.
Avoid giving her smoke canisters. She will just use them to sky-write swear words.
Once trained she is the perfect candidate for powered armor. And she’s even petite enough that it should still be able to get through doorways. Sydney’s powers provide flight, super strength, blasting and even sensors to a degree so her armor could concentrate on just being well ARMOR and just providing enough muscle assistance so Sydney can move around at normal speed. If their tech can handle squeezing in more then you start with air supply assists, then move on to communications, sensors and so on in priority.
Basically they should start working on this for the future cause analyzing her footage would show that she would be a seriously stronger combat asset if she didn’t have to use up a hand orb slot for the shield orb for every single combatant no matter how weak. With her powers providing everything else its not like they have to come up with something of Tony Stark level genius.
Her code name is Halo and you want to put her in high tech powered armor. Why don’t we just start calling her Master Chief now and save time?
Darn it brain stop throwing images like that at me! He said “Master Chief” not “Master Chef”. And since when has the chef from South Park been a master chef? He looks nothing like the hero in Halo, the game!
I don’t care if her name was Samus, power armor, if it exists in world and the character can afford it, is a good idea for any glass canon squishy for whom it doesn’t get in the way of their function somehow. It would open up whole worlds of options for her against less than V level opponents.
Its not like Dave is afraid to make characters resemble other characters when it amuses him. (*cough* Goose *cough*) And then he gains easy access to jokes about power suits usage and power suited characters.
One flaw. Sydney would loose her cuteness aura, if in fully-enclosed power armour. Her AC would actually be worsened, without that!
LOL, she will have to put a camera in the helmet and a curved screen on the outside of the armor somewhere to get it back?
Sydney is not a true glass cannon, in that she has her force field orb.
Which has been shown to be quite resistant to damage.
That’s actually the point behind the point in most of these similar armor comments I’ve made. She’s the glassiest of glass canons UNLESS she uses the force field orb so in any combat situation where some real power is brought to bear she has to either stay out of the way or she is FORCED to use the force field orb all the time tying up half her power possibilities.
The armor would allow her to use her other hand more often in some of those situations (obviously not in close quarters with someone really powerful but that can’t happen ALL the time). Flexibility is her strong suit and this would enhance that greatly. You can’t have too many tricks in your bag.
I also question Sydney being described as a ‘Glass Cannon’. With that Force Field up, she is anything but.
Your hypothesized power armour. IF it exists, would be a trade-off. Just like everything else. There may be rare times when using it would be justifiable.
Againts that, it would also be expensive, restrict movement and perception, probably be a maintenance hog (it’s suddenly no longer about the supers and their powers, it’s all about keeping the @#$%^ armor running) and make it very difficult to use “normal” accessways or vehicles.
Maybe there are people R&Ding Power Armour. With the incidence of supers, it seems a plausible path for militaries and some organizations.to take – especially those who lack supers but may have to face them at some stage.
I answered that above you but it boils down to she’s the glassiest of glass canons unless she uses the FFOrb so she is basically forced to use it in a lot of situations well below “V” level danger. Ties up a power. Reduces flexibility which is her greatest strength outside her odd strategic gifts.
I was stretching wildly from the amount of odd tech I’ve seen humans using (like that ARCdark agents stealth armor… could have been his power but it looked techy) plus how likely Maxima and them seemed to think a “Mad Scientist Robot Attack” was in the press conference. And they are studying Dabbler as closely as they can. She has safeguards but she probably teaches them a lot just by showing them what is definitely possible and what it looks like when it works. *shrugs* It looks like a power armor “friendly” world.
All the armor has to do is be armor and help move its heavy self around a bit on the ground (the orbs do all the other super work) and it won’t be anywhere near “Iron Man” expensive or as intensive to repair. Add in Sydney’s small size and it might be able to make a version that can get in most places. (and in a super emergency the doors can probably be “adjusted”)
To keep repairs and maintenance down it can sit in a recharge slot in their transport until needed as she can shield up in emergencies. But when they know an important and dangerous op is coming up that extra bit of flexibility can literally make Sydney twice as valuable as normal since she doesn’t have to tie up half of her powers protecting herself constantly (until an uber big bad shows up). I think a simple armor would pay for itself when it makes a rare and powerful asset twice as powerful against most threats the second she puts it on.
ARC doesn’t have normal vehicles and Sydney is already showing signs that flying is her go to mode of transport even just to go down the hall (good thing they are planning to force her to do physical exercise soon before she withers away! XD).
So its a trade off but when used it can effectively double Sydney’s power in many situations (short of “V” type events) that’s a good trade-off and an excellent option to have ready to go. I’d probably have her train a lot without armor though since she it is likely she will be caught without it a lot.
I’m kind of surprised nobody has made the most logical argument. The armor if air tight so it can truly take over the shields role, to a weaker degree, against all sorts of attacks like gas/acid whatever would present a barrier to her orbs touching her hands. I think this could be gotten around with flexible conduits in the arms but it would not only slow down orb switching it would also probably weaken the armor in the arms while the conduits were expanded to let the orbs through. Alternatively the arms could just be that big and hollow but that makes the suit pretty bulky again. I always thought that DaveB made the orbs function only in the hands and only with actual skin contact to make armoring up difficult and air tight armor VERY difficult. So to my way of thinking Dave was trying to keep her power levels down to a reasonable level by giving her and her leaders reasons not to think of armoring her up to much as being a good idea.
First, they have to have a usable and practical system.
It is possible that some part of the US military has been secretly working on powersuits for years and, from that source, fully operational units can be mass-produced straight away. But there is absolutely no indication of that being the case. At this stage, anyhow. So we have to infer that, at best, such suits will have to be developed completely from scratch.
So, cheerfully assuming:
* That the US military’s massively unwieldy procurement apparatus AND its democratically-elected civilian overseers all sign off on the project immediately (with zero politicking and/or general futzing around);
* No major technical hurdles, and no interruptions;
* Parallels with other military projects of comparable complexity;
With all that in mind, I am guessing ten years absolute minimum to get to a workable, man-safe and more or less combat-ready and deployable system. So whaddaya want ARCHON to do in the meantime?
Superheroine comic with a love of diverse powers and power sources. There will be a Gadgeteer villain along with some power armor tech they can seize and use as a basis for their work shortly. Though comic vs. real time being what it is maybe it will still be a few years for us. TT
In the mean time when they get done upgrading the materials of everything she could maybe get some of the armor those ARC “space marines” in the early comic were wearing. (assuming they weren’t already wearing the upgraded versions) I’m assuming they have a helmet.
“…. There will be a Gadgeteer villain along with some power armor tech they can seize and use as a basis for their work shortly……”
We are certain of this how?
If you are thinking of Deus, then we have no certainty that this is the direction he will swing in. And a big proble with “acquiring” tech from less-than-friendly sources is that one seldom gets all the paperwork and scientific research that went with it.
So, for argument’s sake, one could “salvage’ a powersuit from some supervillain. But, a great deal of testing and evaluation will need to be done before it can be copied, or before any responsible leader would even CONSIDER putting his / her own troops in said knock-offs.
….. And if the Villain has had the foresight to actually PATENT his / her designs beforehand, then that could open an entirely different can of worms.
Armoured worms? Man, if those things from Dune were not tough enough to start with!
First sentence was: “Superheroine comic with a love of diverse powers and power sources.” Plus there have been some tiny hints of people thinking of “mad scientist” types being a thing in this world.
Dabbler is against sharing her advance tech from other worlds/planes but would she object as hard to helping break down how something a human made works? I think when it got down to delaying things by a couple of years rather than half a century or several centuries (or more) she would be more flexible. Especially when the human race already has that tech in the form of 1 super villain. (team mates should bend technicalities in your favor.)
LOL, I like the idea of a villainous patent. Smart guy.
Power Armor? Without palms, so she can hold her orbs?
Oooops missed you down here.
Of all the problems people have with Sydney wearing power armor yours was the one I actually have been waiting for someone to say. I think the armor should able to be made air tight to do a good job freeing up the force field orb in more situations. However, that does lead directly to the problem you have pointed out. I actually think this was Dave’s idea all along. To complicate Sydney’s ability to “power up” with hand held hold outs and make some types of armor difficult to implement.
So far my ideas are flexible conduits in the arms with sliding armor plates there that allow it to expand without becoming completely unarmored there though it would still probably be weaker in the arms when expanded and this would probably slow down orb switching to a great degree so a definite trade off there. (also would greatly increase maintenance difficulty on the arms) Otherwise the arms could just be that big and hollow but that makes the armor pretty bulky.
If I give up on air tight ability then yeah, it gets a lot easier and cheaper.