Grrl Power #276 – It’s not cheating, it’s “boosting”
Gauntlette finally gets a chance to do some damage after Jiggawatt cut her down during her arrival flourish, but it might not last as it looks like Sydney has figured something out about Vehemence that in hindsight is probably pretty obvious. The question is, what will she do with that information? I’m betting it’s something significant.
If I hadn’t had Hex sneak away already, panel 6 would have been Glowbug vs Hex, a fan cameo faceoff! I guess I could have put Breakpoint in there but sonics vs lightning is a poor matchup as we’ve already seen. It basically comes down to whoever gets the first shot since you can’t really block one with the other. Sonics vs. Lightning sounds like a sports match. Actually the SuperSonics was basketball team and the Tampa Bay Lightning is a hockey team (I had to google both of those) Personally, I think sports would be a lot more interesting if a hockey team played against a basketball team, or a baseball team played against a football team. Asymmetrical sides. That’s what makes for an interesting matchup I say. Protoss vs. Zerg, Zangeif vs. Ryu, rugby vs. curling!
It’s probably too late to remind people about the Amazon affiliate link as Xmas is just under a week away, but you last minuters can still use it. Unfortunately I don’t think I get a percentage of the rush shipping charges. :)
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome which I can’t live without anymore, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
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It seems that arc-swat taped the villains hands/fingers when they were subdued. This is one of the most effective techniques of bondage. It creates an incredible feeling of helplessness to have no use of your fingers.
No, just poor Heaven :P
Just like Sydney then, her weakness is mittens/gloves
They did it to everyone, but Glowbug and Bombshell just charged up their powers and melted the tape. I probably should have put little tattered bits of tap left on their wrists.
How much superstrength would it require to break open the tape, out of curiosity? Some of the baddies are bricks, after all…
Mostly would depend on how much leverage they can get with their bound fingers
That and, I suppose, the strength of the tape. I was mainly wondering because characters like Comb-man the Barberian, Bad Hair Day, and Breakpoint all have varying degrees of superstrength- although I doubt Breakpoint has enough to make any real difference.
Which brings up another point: was Comb-man ever rendered unconscious, given that he surrendered? I mean, was he sedated and cuffed, or was he left on his own recognizance?
All I remember was super hairdresser merely surrendered and don’t recall seeing him elsewhere again, so him being cuffed and sedated is unknown. Mind you, even if he was freaked out and had no idea what he got himself into, I’d think he’d be cuffed along with the others for simply being part of that group.
Agreed. Most cops I know will still cuff you even if you surrender if you were an active antagonist in a criminal act- especially a violent criminal act.
There is a video on Youtube that demonstrates how to break free if your wrists are duct-taped. Pretty neat stuff. Simple, too. Hooray for Physics! Hooray for Science!
If that’s the same video I googled, it actually doesn’t show how to free yourself when both hands are covered in duck tape mittens. Also, not actually sure if any of the methods shown would work if the tape were used to bind you with a figure eight rather than a straight loop around the wrists.
It’d be interesting to test… on anybody other than me, anyways…
1) Can V at least show a single sign of weakness?
2)Can we all at least agree that V isn’t a good guy in anyway?
He just to be a dick-head through and through.
From the way he talks to how he acts.
Already is, actually. Those last few moves took quite a lot of energy out of him. He now has to either hope for a reboost or finish up quickly.
Heck, for all we know, the awakening wave might have just as well been part of an escape scenario for him. Big talk or not, he’s not really a stupid one.
Really?
Doesn’t look like he’s feeling weak in the slightest.
Any visual indication you can point out?
I call BS on that. I see nothing to show that V is getting weakened at all from any of the stuff he’s doing simultaneously.
His weakness is that it takes him time and alot of violence to charge up to this point.
His comment about how Maxima could easely beat him if she’d catch him before he charged up suggest that he won’t stay this strong after the fight, he’ll lose the power over time.
So his weakness is that, if you can dictate the terms of the fight, you win
That’s not a very good weakness. :/
He can’t just be invincible and make up powers whenever he wants. That’d just make him a boring Mary Stu.
Even Superman on his best days has several exploitable weaknesses.
Actually, I’m going to bring Video Game logic into this again via League of Legends.
There are characters who start out weak in the game (or at least not strong), but if you let them grow how they want, let them get early wins (like V getting to absorb the entire initial battle and Maxima’s non-fatal attacks) then they become so powerful as to be almost unstoppable.
I give you Riven, Master Yi and Vayne, for those that know the game.
However, even when this 5v5 game does get to the point that that one character can take on your entire team on their own, the game is not unbalanced (IMHO). You can still take that character down. You just have to be clever and skillful. And have serious stuns at your disposal.
So yes, V is huge, but he had to arrange the largest superhero battle in known history and taunt the most powerful super in the world into fighting him but not pissing her off so much that she outright killed him in order to get to this point. He’s earned that power.
And he’s still going to be beaten by the newest member of the ARC team.
Also, as a final note, we don’t know what his base strength level is. The start of the fight with him had him taking a car to the face with no damage, but that was after he’d just absorbed the violence from the biggest superfight in HISTORY. So he was already pretty tanked up. He may actually only be a decent brawler with tough skin if he’s, I dunno, just been on a beach sunbathing for a week.
Thing is, Superman went through a period of time where he just made up any power he wanted… Here’s some examples. https://imgur.com/a/1UUvv
Yes, it’s called silver age, where Superman was a ridiculous character who had any moronic power the writers wanted. This also happened in Superman 2 (a truly dumb movie as well) – where apparently Kryptonians can shoot beams from their hands and turn the S into a big illusory celophane trap. Oh yeah… and ‘Rebuilding the Great Wall of China’ vision.
And reverse time travel. Bluh. I hate silver age so much. It wasnt just superman either. Green Lantern was awful during that time as well.
In NEW Earth, modern Superman doesnt get powers out of the blue anymore. He has clear weaknesses, and doesnt get new powers as the plot requires anymore. It’s a less ‘cheating’ form of storytelling to force the characters to work within limits, even if the limits are really high (as with Superman).
Vehemence doesnt have limits anymore.
I think he does have limits and weaknesses. The biggest was mentioned: his power is temporary and needs to be re-charged. Therefore, if you get him away from everything he will return to “normal” That’s a pretty significant weakness. Also, he needs time to power up. Big weakness. Right now? Not too many weaknesses… as it should be for the big scary boss of a multi-super fight.
His powerset also doesn’t seem to be limitless. So he’s got intermediate-level magic, paragon-level super strength, regeneration, and super speed, coupled with vehemence projection (which I get the feeling is his real big power and we’ve just scratched the surface of it so far). Seems pretty smart too, albeit not Richards/Banner-smart. REALLY REALLY powerful. But he still doesn’t have OMIGODITKILLSEVERYTHING Omega Beams. There’s no Green Lantern “limited only by my imagination”. I haven’t seen him warp physics to meaninglessness (ka-pants aside) like the Surfer, Manhattan, or Flash.
Once the team beats him, he’s going to be a cool, sneaky villain. This is all just a set-up for future story arcs. Keep on rockin’, Dave.
Please look up ‘weaksauce weakness’ – thanks.
Annnnd yeah he’s warped physics – law of conservation of mass. But that’s not my problem – it’s a comic book webcomic, physics are going to be subverted by a lot of people. That’s suspension of disbelief. It’s the sheer amount of things he can do that violates suspension of disbelief that is a problem. His powerset DOES seem to be limitless. If there’s a cap, it would be most welcome to see.
I’m pretty sure Superman 2 was during the Bronze Age or on the cusp of the Iron Age, not Silver Age… And I’m pretty sure it wasn’t even relevant to the comics.
what about Max? her only real weakness is her limited power pool not giving her access to all her abilities at one time. considering the speed she can redistribute her powers and how powerful any one distribution state gives her, that’s hardly a weakness. arguable far less hampering then V needing to charge up.
Until she needs more than one of those powers at once. Like.. uh.. right now?
Max has openly shown vulnerability to magic to the point where Dabbler was able to keep her ineffective, and to my knowledge, has no protection from psychic/unusual attacks such as portals, aside from running faster than her opponents can think (I believe that the flash did something similar once at least) (also, hehe cosmic hitler).
Supers are not all made equal. He doesn’t need to be made weak to the color yellow in order to be an interesting character.
Actually I like Green Lantern being weak to yellow.
Because this:
https://m0vie.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/asbar1.jpg
The bat sure knows how to go all out in exploiting a weakness, doesn’t he?
Especially Frank Miller’s Batman.
RobK, in Tropeland, that’s a weaksauce weakness.
It’s like saying I have a character that can manipulate reality with my mind…. but I’m allergic to ground cinnamon (not deadly allergic but it gives a reaction). That’s a dumb weakness, because it’s not exploitable. Vehemence does not have any exploitable weakness, at least not anymore. Boring.
Plus every single POSSIBLE non-deus ex machina method seems to be taken out one after the other, via either Vehemence gaining a power to counter it, or from some sort of plot armor.
I mean…. that woman who attacks Dabbler, Just as she’s going to shoot Vehemence’s head with the railgun? Yeah…. apparently that’s the ONLY villain who’s fighting heroes, while everyone else is doing villain vs villain and hero vs hero. Plot armor. You can’t beat it.
because it totally wouldn’t be a plot armor, if she could do that so the team wins and happy ending and stuff…
Do you know what plot armor means? Because it seems like you don’t.
Dabbler using a railgun which she already showed being used in a demonstration, and V being shown to still be able to be hurt (although he regenerates immediately) is not ‘plot armor IF SHE SUCCEEDS.
Plot armor is when the laws of the world seem to bend around the character so that he/she succeeds. There’s nothing ‘world bendy’ about Dabbler’s railgun working like it’s been shown to work after Vehemence has proven to be unstoppable by almost every other means possible.
Um… I think you’re using plot armor wrong. The new-powerset thing is definitely a bit hinky, but a literally 100% completely mundane “counter” by a THIRD PARTY is not plot armor, if it is, then the gunshot that temporarily took out V’s eye was plot armor for the good guys, and Sydney using her tentacle to trip V was plot armor, and… need I go on? The rules of the universe haven’t been bent in the SLIGHTEST with the latest “counter”. Dabbler was lining up a shot and then had to dodge from an attack. If that’s plot armor I’ve used that and had it used against me IN REAL LIFE. I do medieval combat re-enactment, and that’s a perfectly valid method of protecting one’s allies.
I get it, you don’t like Vehemence. I don’t blame you, to this point he’s been an extremely Marty Stu-like character. Much like Silver Age Superman, new power that does whatever the author feels like whenever the situation calls for it. Also like the sonic screwdriver in Doctor Who. Similar to reality manipulation, and abusing power tricks with exceedingly versatile powers (like telekinesis… do you have any idea the kinds of things that can be done if you can TK at a micro and macro level at the same time?).
But if you want anyone to take you seriously you might want to get your terms straight.
Pretty sure the Glove Girl attacking Dabbler just as she’s about to kill Vehemence would be considered ‘plot armor’ actually, so I think I’m using the term correctly.
Plot armor means, from what I’m reading, when things the laws of probability seem to bend around the character in order to protect him/her from death and serious wounds. Plot armor is when a character should die, or at the very least be seriously hurt, but is fine for no logically consistent reason. The wall of force (it was not a force field people, even DaveB said it wasnt) being able to throw Anvil back? The fact that Anvil’s power apparently don’t work against something that it should specifically work against? Seems like plot armor. The fact that Dabbler can’t get a shot off (she was nowhere near the prisoners), before the gauntlet girl could wake up, run across the parking lot, and attack Dabbler so that she can’t kill Vehemence? That seems a lot like plot armor as well.
Maybe it would be more appropriate to use the term ‘Joker Immunity’ though, but at least Joker doesnt have the powers of god at his disposal.
PS – I agree with you about Silver Age Superman (awful comics back then), and I’ve never actually been a Dr. Who fan for the same reason (now everyone on the internet is going to hunt me down).
PPS- when I run a storyline in RP, I do tend to limit even magical effects and TK and reality warping by for one very simple reason – all these abilities are limited by the fact that a human mind is containing them. Sort of like how, in Angel, Illyria couldnt have her full level of power in Fred, and even the small (compared to her normal power) amount of power was basically killing the host body.
No, that’s not enough to call it plot armor. That’s simply good timing. Plot armor must also require things to bend with little to no logical reason beyond ‘the plot says so’. Fisting Girl interrupting Dabbler’s potential kill shot is a logical outcome. Indiana Jones surviving an explosion inside a fridge is not quite logical. Kira ‘Jesus’ Yamato… look him up if you don’t know who he is… his ability to suddenly disable armies in a fight with little to no sweat is plot armor… and irritating.
Improbable good timing just in order to make sure Vehemence doesnt get killed by having someone run across the parking lot to attack Dabbler in less time than it takes for her to shoot Vehemence -is- plot armor. Not sure how much more there needs to be.
If it requires that kind of tongue twister to explain why it’s improbable, it’s not plot armor. :P
His weakness is that he has every weakness (knives, guns, drowning, bee’s if he’s allergic, etc… ) until he finds a source of powerful violence that he can stand near without risking being killed. And even after a bit of powering up he is at risk against stronger versions of same. He did just want a super fight. He wanted the good guys to win so that only those who would try NOT to kill him outright would be left afterwards. His weakness is he has to set up this very specific situation to get crazy powerful IF he wants to fight the strongest on the planet.
After having done so he doesn’t have an obvious one at all. I’m just discussing weakness here not his crazy suite of magical effects… Their related but that’s big enough to be its own special problem (which hopefully will make sense some day………… )
I think he was just trying to show as much as possible as quickly as possible with as little confusion as possible. He wanted to show that allies were fighting each other but also their original enemies indiscriminately in as few panels as possible. I’m sure if he felt less confined he would have shown more enemy vs. enemy battles. But you know with everybody including himself starting to want this fight over maybe there’s not going to be any more panels than absolutely necessary.
At the same time he was trying to answer the question, “Is everybody else just standing around watching?” By showing what one of the heroines was coming up with. He’s working on his pacing by trying to cram as much meaning into panels as he can, with varying degrees of success.
Talking seems to be very much so a free action in this comic (its strong comedic side trying to assert itself I suppose) so I guess this is all meant to be happening much faster. Drawn out like this, with all the close-ups and yakking, it seems silly she took that long to whip out the her strongest gun after Maxima got pinned. I get that.
eeeesh so many typos. Sorry.
Actually everyone (who was formerly unconscious) is just attacking the person closest to them. Sydney is looking at the people fighting people on their own side just because that’s what explains to her what’s going on.
Every non-deus ex machina solution? Really? I guess the whole first few pages of the comic don’t count as setting up Sydney as some kind of power gaming, weakness exploiting, rules lawyering genius, huh?
Well, can Max show any sign of weakness? I’d say they’ve both shown about the same amount of weaknesses. What about Halo? For being the new one, thrown into a super fight without any training, she’s escaped unscathed, she has cowered in fair and she seems to have figured out things/caught onto things the well trained professionals have missed.
The difference is, V needs to be tough enough to take on a team or he isn’t a threat.
Just because some one is a trained professional fighter doesn’t mean they are skilled as analysis, tactics, or thinking. Sometimes the brainiak noob can think up something the pro missed in the heat of battle, especially when they actually have time to sit back and analyze. Halo has essentially been outside the fight for most of it and so sees things they others couldn’t in the middle of it. And Max is nolonger on the outside directing tactics, she is getting pounded. And of the whole team, Max was the main tactician. You don’t need official training to learn tactics.
Sydney is also extremely genre-savvy. Which is rare.
Unfortunately, so is Vehemence because… why not, he’s everything else already also, anyway. :/
… are you serious?
Can Max show any sign of weakness? She’s been showing weakness the entire time since the pepper mill punch. Yes, she’s supposed to be a captain ersatz superman(woman) essentially, but if Vehemence’s only power was to get stronger than her, that would be one thing. But he keeps making more powers, and -everything- keeps going his way. And his dialog is becoming more arrogant than Maxima ever was – at least when she did it, it was an attempt to prevent people from causing crime (akin to Robocop or Judge Dredd or other comic/movie-based police/soldiers)
Halo’s also shown weaknesses. MANY… multiple ones, in fact. Her sheild has multiple weaknesses – can’t let air through so she has to take it down repeatedly, when large, she has to reform it and other people can sneak in and almost kill her – ie, shadow boxer, the shield MUST form around her, not around someone else, the shield automatically forms around people, not through them, she can only hold two orbs at a time, and the shield is a purely defensive power. Her other orbs also have weaknesses that have been SPELLED OUT.
How about have Vehemence show a gd weakness instead. He could have been a threat right up until his arm got blown off, then teleport away with vehemic power since he apparently makes any power he wants anyway, and he would still have been a future threat. Instead, ‘threat’ is defined as ‘the abilit to kill whoever he wants and no one can stop him no matter what they do because of new powers or plot armor.’ HE doesnt need to have THAT level of toughness. The Hulk didnt need matter manipulation and mind control and lightning and wizard opening powers and have genre savviness in order to take on the Avengers and X-Men
Geez. ‘why can’t max show weakness.’ Yeah. And Vehemence is a misunderstood guy, not a villain. Yeah. :/ Btw, Sydney’s the main protagonist. Of course she’s going to be important even if she’s new to this. Why don’t you have even the slightest bit of disbelief of everything Vehemence is doing, but you have all these problems with Sydney or Maxima? I don’t get it.
So… are we now down to just basic impatience? V hasn’t show any serious weakness YET. His first appearance, first fight, about 2-5 minutes since he revealed himself to be a threat. Almost all we know about him is from his mouth, and subject to be complete lie. It’ll be more credible complaint after the fight ends without him showing any weakness.
Maybe I can’t understand the source of your grievance simply because I’m extremely patient person IRL?
Lets think about what you just said for a second.
Within 2-5 minutes, he’s become the most powerful person to ever exist on the planet, more powerful than every other person combined, capable of doing any power he wishes.
Within 2-5 minutes, so far almost every non-deus-ex-machina method to beat him has been used and failed, either because he created another power, shrugged it off, regenerated, or had plot armor of Maxima not going for a kill shot or someone stopping Dabbler from doing HER kill shot).
Within 2-5 minutes:
Outright non-lethal violence – failed
Blinding – failed
Leverage – failed
Kinetic Absorption Attempts – failed
Magic Sword – failed
Sleep spell – failed
Mummy bonding thing – failed
Lifting him up/throwing him into orbit – failed
Blocking – failed
Law of diminishing returns/non-lethal – failed
Railgun to the head – failed
I think you do understand the source of my greivance (and other V haters’ greivances), but you’re just trying to grief and troll to get more of a rise out of us.
Everything he said, I might have felt was a lie, because no one should be this insanely powerful and still be workable in a story… except within 2-5 minutes he’s been doing EVERY single thing he said and not showing even the slightest imperceptible hint of strain.
“… but you’re just trying to grief and troll to get more of a rise out of us.”
i think that’s what you are doing.
huan is trying to calm down people, you are just pointing out things that you don’t like.
V isn’t making up powers, he always had them (maybe except for lightning)
if plot armor is there, it works both sides.
“Lets think about what you just said for a second.”
1- Outright non-lethal violence, IS STILL VIOLENCE
2- Blinding – you mean the eye shot? it worked for the first eye… but he was to powered up for the second.
3- Leverage – well, “wizard did it”
4- Kinetic Absorption Attempts, doesn’t work, because he is smart enough not to let her do it.
5- Magic Sword – i missed that one?
6- Sleep spell – i don’t remember her casting “wish” spell, that might have worked.
7- Mummy bonding thing – are you serious? he punches through a column and you consider that an option
8- Lifting him up/throwing him into orbit – isn’t it the same as leverage? if not, go back to point 1
9- Blocking – what was that supposed to do in the first place?
10- Law of diminishing returns/non-lethal – just because he did not right out topped getting power, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work
11- Railgun to the head… that… if you mean the opportunity attack knocking dabbler out of balance then i have nothing to say there…
most of them failed cause they had no right to succeed in the first place.
few others were things we were not aware that he already had.
You are totally and utterly missing the point as well for the listing of counters he’s made. It’s about the jibe of ‘you’re just all too impatient’ – I listed the counters to show that actually there’s been a LOT of patience waiting through all these ridiculous counters.
Again, it’s not ‘trying to calm people down.’ It’s either griefing or just willful ignorance. I’m pointing out actual events from the comic.
The grievance is that, even if the past 4 months have been 2-5 minutes (in which case they must take lessons in speed-talking with all the monologuing that’ happened), then in 2-5 minutes, Vehemence has countered or plot armored every non-deus ex machina method to beat him except a PPO or Plasma bolt to the head, or Death Toll somehow disabling his vehemic energy.
So no… Huan isnt trying to ‘calm people down’ – he’s one of those people who says stuff like ‘if you don’t like it, leave’ (an ad hominem attack) or saying ‘you’re all just too impatient, unlike myself’ (again, 4 months, 28 pages of just vehemence, 10 going on 11 months, 76 pages of the whole fight).
And yes, V is making up new powers. Of COURSE he is. He admits he is IN THE COMIC, by the character himself! Each time, topped with a ‘Look what I can do now!’ and ‘Now watch THIS!’
But hey, fine. Sip the kool aid. If it ends in a non-deus ex machina where Vehemence actually gets beaten, or at least is forced to flee, that’s at least something. Maxima’s character is still essentially ruined but there are a bunch of people who don’t like physically powerful ‘penultimate’ female characters among male comic book readers.
But it’s definitely -not- because the people who can’t stand Vehemence have been impatient.
1 it is a comic about super powers, did you expect there would be no fighting?
maybe it is a little long but-
2 i can stand him “coming up with new powers” because there are no new “powers”(except for lighning… and pants, i don’t know how to explain them… wizard did it!!)
most of the things V did (except for pants) was linked to the vehemic power.
to me, most f the things he does makes sense.
its just he needed enough charge to actually use them, or was simply delaying them.
as fo griefing… what? can you explain? as far as i see, YOU are EVERYWHERE, complaining about V. apparently i dont know what griefing means so pls explain to me MR.perfect
Btw, a sleep spell was the first thing Dabbler did when she attacked. IT was brushed off by Vehemence. And Dabbler’s sword (I forgot the name of it, the one that turns from one to two swords) is the magic sword I was talking about, which only scratched him a bit.
Also, regeneration has nothing to do with ‘vehemic energy.’ If anything healing is the opposite of violence.
The sword didn’t do anything to him, it hit the tree he was leaning against and he poked it with a stick
“Within 2-5 minutes, he’s become the most powerful person to ever exist on the planet, more powerful than every other person combined, capable of doing any power he wishes.“
That’s hyperbole at best. Most powerful person to ever exist anywhere forevers and more powerful than everyone else who ever existed ever combined. Question, has even Max claimed to be the most powerful on the planet? Just curious. And if he’s more powerful that everyone else combined does that mean he’ll be able to break Achilles’s neck? What about Death Tole? Didn’t Dabbler mention she could get a similar power up? He seems to be having trouble sealing the deal on Max too.
Non-lethal Violence – Well duh. That’s his whole idiom. What doesn’t kill him makes him stronger. Makes sense in universe and in context.
Blinding – Yep it worked just fine at first, but see answer A. Makes sense in universe and in context. It was also a good visual of his increasing strength over time.
Leverage – Not sure what you mean by that. Wrestling and joint locks? Holding his family hostage?
Kinetic Absorption – Well yea. That was set up by A, him observing the fight and Anvil’s powers, and B him not being an idiot. Makes sense in universe and in context.
Magic Sword – Well it hasn’t light sabred through anything and everything thus far, so it makes sense that it would fall under the category of escalating invulnerability as everything else. Makes sense in universe and in context.
Sleep Spell – It has been established that Dabbler is “Jill of all trades/master of none.” If the magic using, already largely powered up V was taken out by a spell of middling at best power he’d hardly be arch-villian material. Makes sense in universe and in context.
Mummy Bonding Thing – Would you expect it to work on the Juggernaut? If you read the page before it was attempted Dabs didn’t think it’d work, but hey worth a try since it’s non-violent. Makes sense in universe and in context.
Orbital – Is this what you mean by Leverage? Yea, I agree that one is an arsepull. Still don’t think it’d work since V would pound on M pretty hard while she’s trying to carry him up, and Max hasn’t shown the strength level that would be required to throw him into orbit. Your Hulk VS the Avengers analogy works here. Why hasn’t Thor thrown/teleportedt he Hulk into deep space and called it a day? The problem from a storytelling perspective is that the attempt would force them away from everyone else. Dave’s solution works, but yes arsepull.
Law of Diminishing Returns/Non-lethal – She used violence on him and it made him stronger. Weird. That’s his idiom. It was an attempt to intimidate him into surrender that failed due to an obvious power that he had not yet demonstrated. Makes sense in universe and in context.
His powers –
Violent Powerup – Not 100% original, but then nothing is, and it’s an interesting twist on the traditional hulking out. It actually means he needs to be smart since the actual powering up is outside of his ability to initiate without help (willing or otherwise).
Violence initiation – Again falls right under the idiom and main theme. A bit predictable, but not every trope needs to be or should be subverted.
Ka pants is just supposed to be funny, it gets a pass.
Regeneration falls under the idiom of “blood knight” and is so common a power in comic books that it’s like ketchup, it’s always on the table even if you never think about it.
Lightning arm. Hasn’t really amounted to anything other than being an interesting visual. Not sure what storytelling purpose it serves, but probably the visual equivalent of exposition.
Ground lock – See my commentary on Orbital. No point reposting.
Intelligence – Thus far his greatest power IMHO. It’s been shown from the start and continues to be relatively consistent. No complaints here since a big dumb brick archvillan is pretty one note.
Personally I found it funny too when everybody was going on that Jabber, Heavenly Sword, Glowbug, Hex, V, etc etc should join up with Arc Swat. No silly, they’re villains. That you like them is fine. That means Dave has made interesting villains to be the superhero’s foils. That they’re likeable, at least until say Glowbug fries Amorphus for example, might fall under the lighter tone of the comic, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t bad people who should be in jail. I like V as a character. He’s my favourite villain so far, but saying that he should totally be an undercover agent is, and always was, hilariously silly.
Your grievances vary from silly to reasonable, but fall into line with the same sort of complaints people are tossing at Max, who you just defended.
Of all things, healing is probably one of the last words I would use to describe as an opposite of violence as much as love and sex. In fact, given V’s nature to head to where the action is, including direct participation, healing and regeneration is an expected power to have. Not too different to the Hulk in that regard, who is known to be capable of regenerating lost fingers and many lost vital organs at once. Main difference is V controls this aspect as opposed to being automatic. V trolling this power I can see annoyance, but having it available has never been my problem.
Too much to respond to.
To Guesticus: No, she also used the sword ON him as well, and it just scratched his arm. Please re-read the last 77 pages.
To Spatulaodoom: Yeesh, you wrote a lot (then again so do I). Lemme see which parts I’ll respond to. 1) By leverage, I mean stuff that Stalwart did with diverting his attacks, which seemed to work just fine, before he did the space shuttle footstomp. 2) her sleep spell didnt work even BEFORE they started attacking him, just from the attacks between the chaff villains and Arcswat, with him hiding a distance away. 3)Mummy bonded – No I didnt expect it to work, but the point is it’s yet another strategy they tried. Although binding Juggernaut HAS worked. A variant even happened in the movie which is how the government kept Juggernaut imprisoned. 4) Max has shown the strength level to throw a person into orbit. Heck, she can throw a tank a mile with minimal effort. Doesnt take a stretch to assume that she can fly up with someone, then throw that person into orbit. 5) Cosmic powered spiderman DID once punch the Hulk into orbit.
The point, Spatula, is not that he has any one of these abilities to counter these strategies – it’s that he has the ability to counter ALL of them. Countering any single one of them can be reasonable. Every single one creates another is ridiculous. I think you also forgot my problem with the wall of force which doesnt generate kinetic force yet somehow throws Anvil back like a rag doll, despite that is what kinetic force IS.
To bleh: Regeneration is the exact opposite of destruction. Destruction is a synonym for violence (I looked in the dictionary before saying this). It makes really little sense for violence to power up regeneration – if that’s what his powers are supposed to be about. If his powers are just ‘whatever he wants’ powered by violence, then it’s not inconsistent anymore – it’s just twinkily overpowered. And like you said, it was automatic. He reformed his arm before Maxima, who was right there, could even fire another plasma bolt. And we know how fast Maxima is supposed to be able to move.
The definitions, fair point, and I will give you that. The rest of the stuff, particularly how it ‘makes no sense’, you and a few others have pointed it out already. Violence is merely his engine for his super powers, which happen to include regeneration and instant pants. Strength, durability, speed, or size growth don’t have much of anything to do with violence itself, and as I said, given his nature, he practically needs healing if he’s ever within something akin to a warzone. As for being OP, I can only agree to disagree at the moment. Everyone on each side has stated their stances on this, and no one is backing off. One small thing, I said Hulk’s was automatic, not V. V needs to will it to happen, while Hulk just heals or regenerates, period.
1) As for griefing, I gripe about Vehemence – a fictional character. You can’t grief a fictional character.
2) You grief the people who gripe about Vehemence. That’s the difference – one is a critique, the other shows you don’t know how to argue your point without devolving into ad hominem attacks.
3) Ms. Perfect.
After taking the time to read every comment, I feel compelled to speak up in defense of V, this super battle and hell Grrl Power in general. Firstly to all the complaints on pace of this comic… while I can admit I am also eager to see Syd come up with a solution to the problem V presents all these negative and sometimes downright hostile comments are simply BS people. Apparently all those who comment are arm-chair web comic rules lawyers. Until you put out and maintain a popular web comic for a few years yourself, then, maybe you might have a valid basis to criticize Dave so ruthlessly. Hell the V haters are now even calling people who have differing opinions and state them to be trolling… get a grip already its a bi weekly web comic, you read the page and speculate for a few days on what the next page will bring, wash rinse, repeat.
I for one am pretty dang happy with all the forthought and character development Dave has brought to this comedic superhero series I have come to love. So simply put great work Dave, I am happily looking forward to the plot-twist Syd’s about to smack V with and see all the Veh is way overpowered commentators proven wrong! Keep Grrl power as she is a bi-weekly posted super hero soap opera and don’t even think of skipping a joke page or even a gag oriented panel to appease the we must have everything right now generation!
I love the commentary of people who say ‘If you don’t run a webcomic/are a writer/blah blah blah’ then you no right to say any negative critiques of the comic!
Do you have any idea how idiotic that sounds? Might as well never vote, because if you havent yourself been in politics, you have no right to tell the politicians that they’re doing a bad job! Hate Duke Nukem Forever? Sucks to be you – you can only say so on Amazon once you’ve made your own video game, buck-o!
Thank god Dave has you to protect him from all the meanies who actually find something to critique about something that he himself is saying has gone on too long. I’m sure if he didnt have white knights like you, he’d be such a delicate flower and he’d just crumple away. He should kiss your feet for being his valiant protector from all the dangerous words being said on the comment board.
PS – to anyone who doesnt understand sarcasm, I did not say DaveB is a delicate flower.
he didn’t say “you have not right” he said “Until you put out and maintain a popular web comic for a few years yourself, then, maybe you might have a valid basis to criticize Dave so ruthlessly.” criticize all you want but can you leave the vitriol at the door thanks.
Danke Dale for the clarification on my behalf, my point exactly. Seems some peeps are so deeply entrenched in the all commentary must be negative like mine to be valid mode that it really is becomming pointless to even bother with them..
As one of the G power fan community I just want to again let Dave know his efforts are not just appreciated but praise worthy, don’t let the rather excessively vocal minority get ya down man!
Happy Holidays to you, and thanks for another great years worth of Grrl Power!
Btw, you do realize Pander that at this very moment you have 53 comments on just this page alone out of the 3 currently up in reference to this latest page Dave put up alone. That’s all I meant by being excessive in asserting you opinion over others. Relax man and simply enjoy the free entertainment!
Again – you do NOT have to run a webcomic to be deemed worthy to give a criticism of a character in a webcomic. All social commentary would end in every situation if that was the case.
The only difference between Max and V is you like Max :p
Let’s see, we know his power feeds off violence. What just happened? He got a serious rush of super meta violence.
No, the only different between Max and V is Max has some clearly defined, albeit powerful, powers. While V has a very unclearly defined, potentially unlimited amount of powers that can spawn spontaneously from his ‘vehemic energy’ reasoning.
Also Maxima’s threats and fighting serve an actual purpose. V’s threats and comments are just because he likes to threaten and fight. He’s a living tautology. I fight because I fight.
To quote the Rocky Balboa movie “You’re a fighter. Fighters fight.” :p
He’s a modern day gladiator. Max has had pages and pages for you to get to like her (and really her personality says no one should, unless the only reason to think she’s friendly at all is that she used to play D&D) while you’ve had only a few pages for V who still has to be powerful enough to be a credible threat to a team that consists of multiple supermen level heroes.
You have Max who is basically Superman. You have Dabbler who can fight her to a stand still. Hiro who’s superman light. Halo who is the untrained superman light who has a power for everything (does that make her batman light too?).
I believe the 2-5 minutes he’s referencing is after the battle royal between all the other supers. It’s also arguable, that this 2-5 minutes is not after he stepped out of the shadows, but rather when the team fully realized he was a threat. You also have to consider the order of your list when you’re marking the failures.
The team basically ramped up his power when as they were ticking away at him with the non-lethal violence; in constantly testing his limit, they kept raising it because they didn’t know how far they needed to adapt for each hit and attack to be effective. The only real marker they had to start was Peggy’s rifle (the second shot, may be the point they realized/he was revealed as a threat as well) and by that point they had been beating on him for a while.
I’m not trying to troll you. If anything, the discussion lately is making me somewhat sad. We all waited for 11 months if you want to count the whole battle, and the comments were just a normal banter. Suffocating Vehemence in Sydney’s shield, rising Atlantis, lots of funny suggestions on how to proceed and why they won’t work, ideal place for a lurker like me. Now we are within grasp of the big reveal of Vehemence’s defeat. My guess it that it will still be this year. Consider that DaveB mentioned that he is already working on the pages that we are all waiting for (last comic, comment page 3). As from what I got from his other comments, he doesn’t keep long buffer (few pages ago, something along the “…keep drawing long into Sunday night so until I decide it’s time to post the page for Monday update” which would suggest no buffer at all). So, two or three pages at most until we get to see them.
And after all that time, this is the point where you feel the need to come and repeatedly remind us how he has written himself into the corner, and that there is no imaginable way for him to finish this in manner that won’t completely ruin the comic forever. 36 out of 177 comments right now on this comment page. Too lazy to count the whole discussion. That is a lot of negativity in one place. One correction: YOU can see no way. I don’t see it either, but since Dave is already working on drawing it (meaning that the script was complete long ago), there probably is. The way that Vehemence works probably breaks some unwritten (or maybe even written) rules about comic worlds must work, if it irritates you so much. Rules… let’s call them… how about tropes? Sorry, couldn’t resist. Dave has good history of delivering quality entertainment, and breaking tropes in intelligent manner. So I just enjoy the ride and do not worry too much about it. There are enough things to worry about in the real world.
I can offer you one more way to cope with his enormous “set of powers” that I didn’t see mentioned so far. You don’t have to take it of course. Right now he is obviously powered up to immense power levels. Regardles of the method of how he did it, he is. One could say “stats through the roof”. And that means saving throws through the roof too. In good old DnD, you don’t get to see how power fails if you make the save, it just fails and you move on. But lots of his counters could be just that: visual representation of failed saves, only half conscious resistance to attempts to harm him, similar to how Nemesis power works and all in line with his basic power. Certainly blocking simple sleep spell with his arm. You wouldn’t expect to take down dragon with simple sleep spell, would you? Flashbang, lighthook, mummymissile and sword resistances are given by his boosted consitution and strengh. Immunity to lift (magical symbols on the ground) is pushing it a little, but still reasonable IMO – he could have just changed his mass beyond Maxima’s capacity to lift, but that’s not too showy power and if he has some magical background, why not. He could have practiced a lot with lesser versions of his spells, now he is just pumping a lor more power into them for greater effect. Temporary force field is not too bad either (yes, what I see in Anvil’s panel is her running into force field, not force push. She wouldn’t be able to kineticabsorb her way through Sydney’s shield either, the bounce could be just for comedy effect and/or from running into unexpected obstruction). In short, I consider him powered up to a demonlord level. Mundane stuff that wouldn’t work on your typical demonlord won’t work on him either, and the “just because power to burn” is good enough explanation for me in this context.
Or Vehemic energy could work similar to The Force – some especially gifted force users don’t seem to need too much of training either to do impressive stuff, and the Force seems to have “mind” of it’s own (I’m sure I will get crucified for this sentence, my defense is that I’m just a casual watcher, didn’t study the SW universe too deeply). But there ARE possible explanations if you try to look for them, or wait for them, instead of trying to argument why it can’t possibly ever work. You are spending far too much energy on something that will be resolved in few updates and what is supposed to be entertainment.
Sydney’s biggest weakness seems to be experience. There is no way she needs to take that shield down that much in order to breath. You could probably live for an hour on what she normally encapsulates. You could probably get me to believe 15-20 minutes because she’s been burning it up like crazy hyperventilating and running around in her first super fight well, and also cause its a comic with plot needs but not as much as she’s been doing by a looong shot. So I am nicely assuming that it is her lack of experience that is leading her to decide she needs to refresh her air that much.
using the data from this website and fudge factoring it a bit to say that she’s and adult female that has been *walking @2.5mph* she will need 20 liters of air per MINUTE… OK, going by her uniform searching locker rooms scene, she is shorter than Peggy’s 5’4″… SO… we will assume for this discussion that she projects a perfect spherical shield at 5’4″ diameter (but she really DOESN’T as it is an OVOID shape, not a SPHERE, BUT for the purposes of the math…). if she’s in the air that will be entirely *air* (minus HER volume that is.), but for this entire fight she has NOT gone airborne, therefore she has the ground under her taking up 1/2 of the sphere’s available volume… the volume of a sphere is = (4/3) pi r^3, the Diameter= 5ft4in > R= 32in… (4/3) * Pi * (32″ ^3) equals: 137258.27743044044 Cubic Inches = 2249.66316 Liters (round to 2250) therefore her air supply in a full sphere would last about 112.5 minutes… on the ground that would turn out to be about 56.25 minutes… but if she started doing any strenuous activities (running @5 mph) that would bump the needed air to 45 L/Min and drop the time to only about 25 minutes… so it becomes obvious that her running out of air and feeling light-headed, was played for the “Rule of Funny” and pacing, and/or this fight HAS gone on for *much longer* than just the 2 to 5 minutes previously thought, and she really has gone through that much air from the original bubble, with the later shield drops due to her not wanting to have that happen again, so she’s dropping it more often than strictly needed.
So I wasn’t that far off for a guess I pulled out of fuzzy TV land memories. Cool.
Though since the shield is centered on her center the ground wouldn’t cut it in half unless she was like sitting on it or something. But its a skinny oval half the time (probably to fit in the panel half the time and to avoid objects/people the other half) so it probably evens out to the same difference.
Also I thought the fight was like 20 minutes to 30 minutes long with all the mini boss battles, posturing and speechifying every so often for the last half. So I’ll give her needing a refresh at least once during the fight. (maybe she grabbed some bad air or something caused by that one guys entrance through the roof)
You can’t just introduce him with a weakness. Our heroes must first find his weakness. If he walked up and they all knew how to beat him, Vehemence wouldn’t be much of an archvillain.
Well, if V was a Champions character, I would be asking myself, “What huge disadvantages did this guy have to take to be so powerful?”, and as Sydney is a role-player, she is probably asking herself the same question, and if it were relevant to the current situation. Things to take note of, even Superman needs an air supply when he goes for an extended time in space, so certain weaknesses might still be available for exploitation.
How about:
Any conflict that truly enpowers him can get him killed pretty fast initially?
So he HAS to manipulate events in such a way that he joins the fray at his own time and not the other way around…and, as is well known, violent conflicts are so calm and orderly…
Yep. He only seems so OP in context bc he’s orchestrated this situation ideally. He was taking risks when pissing off the team too, counting on them escalating at the rate he can keep up with (which is exactly what happened).
And it will NEVER happen in his favor again. If the team ever spots Vehemence near a fight, they will drop everything and take him out first, before focussing on the rest
One would hope any future encounter would last 5 seconds and result in his head being ripped off or incinerated.
I don’t, mostly because again, this isn’t that kind of webcomic. Let’s not hope for massive, sudden shifts in tone. This fight has been enough of one.
So they won’t see him or realize its him till its to late.
He didn’t actually get strong enough to beat Maxima until Maxima herself started gently punching him for awhile
It was actually 2 punches.
Yes, but by then he was tough enough to survive Maxima, which is dangerous in itself.
My first reply of the day and I don’t think it was meant for me? I just said he wouldn’t show himself or show himself AS himself until he was better off power wise.
He doesn’t need to attack the team with Maxima on board anyway. They will most likely be deployed in smaller units on many occasions
Yup.
When people talk about his power, they should realize that the greatest power that V as showed is of being a master manipulator and schemer.
And yet, everyone assumes that is his real face…
Am still betting on some form of illusion/mind control here.
If it was an illusion, you wouldnt have seen the illusion in https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1189
Also Sydney would have already seen through it since he was still within her line of sight when she was using the yellow orb (and yes I know she can’t see through illusions in her double, but her original had to have also seen him since she wasnt far from him and was obviously looking AT him while holding the yellow ball).
Not necessarily to the first.
As for the second. Maybe, not enough information on how that works. She can see out of her double I don’t know if she can see out of her own eyes at the same time or pays much attention. I don’t know if the primary power works when the “double” is active.
Agreed. So this is his underworld orchestrating face… as n the archive noted. But it still could ne a nerdy (genre savvy) pimple faced teen under there in real life. He could be ‘normal guy’ to get to a minimum setting charge –hell it could even be a split personality so that a psychic scan does not pick him up. Ohh liking that: school field trip to ARC HQ and the tour goes by the sparring session (BOOM) “Mwah hah hah hah, Here’s Johnny!”
Actually, it’s not just him orchestrating things. It’s plot armor. The thing that happens with Dabbler is NOT from V’s planning, unless V is not only causing them to be violent, but he’s actually controlling their minds (possible since they’re doing things decidedly against their natures). Which makes him even more ridiculously dumb as a character with every power. The one villain attacking heroes, and it happens to be to attack the one hero who’s about to shoot off Vehemence’s head. If he isnt controlling that person’s mind and directing her specifically against Dabbler (multitasking while doing all the other stuff as well – maybe he’s omniscient or something), then he has phenomenal plot armor.
He doesnt seem OP in context. He -is- OP, plus protected by fate apparently to make sure any conceivable means that might actually kill him will not happen.
Personally I don’t think the railgun would have worked anyway at this point. At this point he is also not doing much in the way of multi-tasking. His current main task is pinning Max to the gorund and attempting to choke her. That’s it. He had a momentary second task in initiating the wakeup wave with an apparent violent energy reaction to it. At this point he has lots of time to think, calculate, etc. He’s at the point where any form of physical assault is pretty much useless. Like shooting 9mm at superman. BUT, he still isn’t strong enough to overpower Max’s current defense level. Thus his need to stir up more violence which he can’t exactly get involved with himself since he has to keep Max pinned.
Except for the wakeup wave, we really haven’t seen him utilize any ranged abilities or powers.
At this point, he needs a a renewed surge of violence.
Any conventional weapon. Dabbler’s railgun is hardly a conventional weapon.
And yes he’s doing quite a bit of multitasking
His growth.
Keeping Anvil away with a wall of force that she can’t absorb for god knows what reason
Ignoring Syndey’s attempt to budge him
Unlocking all the handcuffs
the Violence/Mind control wave
Possibly specifically directing violence to just happen to stop Dabbler from shooting him
Choking Maxima
Electrocuting Maxima
Monologuing (and not a single grunt from him during this – it’s easy as pie for him)
Btw, the ‘open everything’ power is ranged also.
I agree with you that V is OP and the fight has been pretty dull since right after the pepper mill.
That said, the above list feels unfair to me. Most of those items were instantaneous things, and don’t really fit the definition of “multitasking”. Specifically:
– His growth.
He probably doesn’t need to maintain this; my expectation would be that he activates it and then stays big until it wears off or he turns it off.
– Keeping Anvil away with a wall of force that she can’t absorb for god knows what reason
I’ll go with you on the “why can’t she absorb it?” thing, although I suppose it’s possible that absorbing energy is a conscious thing for her, and she just wasn’t expecting it / it was invisible so she didn’t know to do it.
That said, it was an instantaneous effect that doesn’t require ongoing focus — he just had to notice her coming, take part of his attention off Max for a moment to activate the power, and then go back to what he was doing. That doesn’t feel unreasonable to me.
– Ignoring Syndey’s attempt to budge him
Again, may not require any focus. He may simply be too big / heavy right now, or it may be that his “stick to the ground” thing stays on once he turns it on.
– Unlocking all the handcuffs
Yeah, that’s fair. This should have required focus, and on multiple targets. That said, Dave described it as a “Wizard Unlock spell”, which means it’s probably a self-directed fire-and-forget thing.
– the Violence/Mind control wave
The wave itself was, again, instantaneous and therefore doesn’t fit the definition of “multitasking”. If there’s mind control going on then yes, that should definitely count.
– Choking Maxima
This is his primary task.
– Electrocuting Maxima
This likely involves very little concentration. Pretty much all super(heroes|villains) can use all of their powers at once, especially if they are against a single target. And it’s a contact attack, so there’s no need to focus on aiming or tracking a target. “Turn on electricity” is unlikely to be a major focus-requiring thing.
– Monologuing (and not a single grunt from him during this – it’s easy as pie for him)
Talking and choking someone isn’t that hard. But yes, a grunt would have been nice.
There is a good reason why she would attack Dabbler, that’s the girl that Dabbler took out right at the beginning of the fight. If she wasn’t near any other villains, of course she would go for the person that hurt her earlier.
If memory serves, it was Jiggs that took out Gauntlette, not Dabbler.
Exactly. Gauntlette/SouthpawWebversion’s interference is SOLELY to eliminate the ability of Vehemence to be taken out by the railgun (one of the few non-deus ex machina methods left).
If V was a character app in any role playing game I ran, I’d never allow him as a rampant powergamer and minmaxer.
He’s a villain though. You probably wouldn’t let a player fly, breath fire and be gigantic, or become undead and almost-immortal, but it’s fine for a monster.
I also would never run a villain character either who can not be beaten by any means. That’s not fun for the players to know that no matter what they do, no matter how creative, I can just make up a new power and say ‘it would have worked if you had done it before you knew you had to do it, but now it won’t work, muhahaha, TPK Rocks fall everyone dies.”
Also would never allow a villain with an essentially infinite powerset if they were all playing villains for a TP, a la Suicide Squad.
I dunno. If I was in this comic role-playing right now, there are many, many ideas yet to try and defeat him with. Oh, and “rail gun to the head” wouldn’t even be on the list, considering what I’ve seen him take so far.
Also, continuing on the role-playing thing, the whole Vehemence fight would have taken, what, 10 minutes of game time so far? Maybe 20? Count me as among those not bored with the fight yet. And if I was, I’d just stop reading as regularly.
In one RPG I have a character that could get rid of V permanently. But that’s because of the office she holds. The office of The Grim Reaper.
So…. the only way that can be thought of to kill Vehemence is to use the actual universal personification of Death itself.
That’s discouraging.
Now I’m curious what ideas you have for beating V that, as a storyteller, I would not be able to say, based on the extent of his power, he can’t counter or come up with another plot armor to prevent from happening to him (and no deus ex machina either, please).
I’m genuinely curious because other than DT or a PPO to the head or Maxima doing a plasma bolt to his head since his head is STILL 3 inches from her hand… I’m out of ideas.
Admittedly, many of my ideas stem around waking the other villains and offering them asylum in exchange for assistance, as their powers seem more appropriate. In general, they all come down to getting V to a place where he can’t do damage (ocean, space, permanent fall). Portals and telekinesis would be VERY useful here, in several ways. I also like the DT idea that has been put forward, and they wouldn’t even need his permission (they might need his consciousness, though, so that option might be currently off the table). I guess a teleportation spell would be good to try, although he seems magic resistant so that might be problematic. Hammerspace-ish portal? Even though everything on Dabbler’s ship might be in trouble, if he couldn’t use any of it he’d be stuck. Something particularly sticky or gooey might be helpful to slow him down while other options are tried. Heck, even Sydney getting in his way with the shield up would help on that front. The simplest would have been to try and egg him into jumping again before Maxima’s space-transport gambit.
Interestingly, Maxima’s “let’s hit him even HARDER” approach struck me as really shortsighted. I’m glad it was repulsed in spectacular fashion, putting the team in an even more desperate state (now they have to deal with her there too). I hate that method of dealing with problems and it’s usually not a good approach in games where I’m the GM.
Damn, now you’ve got my guessing Christmas presents again… :)
1. Inhalants: disabling gasses absorbed through the lung tissues.
2. Vacuum: Remove the oxygen from his immediate vicinity.
3. Disabling contact solutions: absorbed through the skin. Anti-psychotics, knock-out or paralytic poisons. Drugs that make you super-sensitive to touch, so every punch turns his pain level up to 11. Even the most gentle touch is highly unpleasant.
4. Major sexual distraction via Dabbler. Pretty much refer back to #1 and #3.
5. Illusions. Trick him into thinking that he is still fighting Max, and substitute Death or Anvil (preferred) to absorb V’s energy. Or just have him swinging futilely while everyone steps back.
6. Giant ball of tar-like substance. (ref: The Incredibles) Pillows the kinetic energy, cuts off the visual, and auditory senses. Cuts off the oxygen, see #2. BTW, both military and civilian entities have been experimenting with such substances for several decades now.
7. Max, or one of the bricks, applying 5-10 seconds of constant pressure to both carotid arteries. Cuts off the supply of oxygen to the brain for a quick knockout and a nasty headache upon waking up. Since no muscles protect these arteries, they should be susceptible to someone strong enough to close them off. Telekinesis would work very well here, providing one has fine enough control.
8. Auditory over-stimulation. Can be very painful/distracting/nauseating/mood-altering.
None of these options have been dis-proven in this comic, and this is just off of the top of my head.
Some of these might actually work, although I would quibble with anything suggesting cutting off air or blood supply; basically, he was in an environment where the available air was pretty much completely replaced by concrete dust and/or actual gravel and it did not slow him or impair him in any significant way, save for partially blinding him.
#4 has been suggested several times and is generally regarded as a Very Bad Idea.
#5 has potential, but I’m not sure it could be made to incapacitate him.
#6 also has potential- provided he can’t just make himself immune or walk out of the area (note that it has been suggested that Sydney might do something like this using the Hentorb, but she hasn’t been able to so much as lift him off the ground, despite the orb being, supposedly, strong enough to hurl a car.
#8 is also interesting and, potentially, could be effective, since the eardrum is, indeed, quite sensitive and, additionally, controls balance. My take is that it would be hard to pull it off, though, because his general invulnerability likely affects his ears as well.
Just my two cents- I don’t insist that any of my interpretations or suppositions are actually correct.
HAH! I forgot about Max grinding V under the ground with the concrete column. Good point, that. Definitely hurts my “remove his oxygen” arguments, although, he wasn’t under very long before he powered up and then his way out, and he could have held his breath for a couple of minutes, but can he hold it for ten minutes? 30? Again, even Superman wears a mask when in space for an extended period.
My idea to how Sydney beats V: After this, Sydney will rename the Lighthook the Molestorb again… If you know what I mean…
We do. It’s a PG rated comic, so no, it won’t. No matter how many times it gets suggested. Still NO.
It may be a visibly PG comic (certainly the language is NOT PG) but it is not a mentally PG comic. I remember the days when an audience was considered intelligent and observant enough to take the clues offered and turn them into the obvious conclusions. I see no reason why the author can’t allow us to know such an attack happened without QUITE showing it in full. (remember his amusing extra oddball imagery he threw in when Shadows privates were crushed?)
This comic has swearing and it has suggestive content (soapy bosoms, lots of rubbing and side boobing, discussions of hentai etc… ). Its not that big of a leap as long as its not ACTUALLY fully shown.
It would be funny to just have it happen off panel, and cut to see Sydney turning visibly red with embarrassment from watching that.
Naruto reference there: “10,000 YEARS OF PAIN!”
Greatest jitsu in all of manga. ;p
Why he never combined that with Harem Jutsu I’ll never know. He could have ruled the world!
Then the story of Naruto becoming hokage would’ve ended 15 years ago. Forget the Rasengan. 100000000 Years of Sexy FTW. =3
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html
ORDER OF THE STICK WHOOO HOOO!!!!
Wait. What?
Raznaak, now I think you just made certain readers faces as green as Sydney’s face was after the exploded arm. That’s just … wrong. So so wrong man. So so wrong. Frankly, if this was a pencil and paper game and a player tried that, I would personally give them the chance to do so. Even if it made all the others players faces go green as a result, regardless of success or failure.
Of course, I’m a twisted sort when it comes to being a GM.
Well all you would really need is a Panel where Sydney winds up from –ahem– behind and then a close up look at his face, and another as his eyes roll back up into his head. Especially if she gets Jiggawatt to charge the Lighthook once in place.
Off camera off color is jes fine.
And apparently Halo’s shield protects her from mind-altering magic as well.
Max and Dabbler were also unaffected by the “hate aura wave.” Anvil may be unaffected as well, but we can’t be sure as she’s off-screen. At this point, we can only speculate that the people revived are the only ones affected.
More like only unconscious people were affected from the looks of it.
It blocks teleportation, so probably! But also it didn’t seem to affect anyone who was conscious at the time.
I think the mind control/violence wave just affects the unconscious people since they don’t have the willpower to resist while they’re unconscious.
Course it might be affecting them on a lesser scale since Sydney looks annoyed and Dabbler suddenly decided to pull out the big guns and blow his brains out.
Or Sydney could be annoyed because of the same reasons the real, non-V-Fanboy people on the forum are annoyed :) I don’t think she’s annoyed that Dabbler tried to end the fight by blowing Vehemence’s head off. She’s annoyed that Vehemence is ‘cheating’ with all these powers out of his butt to do a perpetual engine of violence until Maxima dies.
Sorry I meant for those two to be taken separately. 1) Sydney looks seriously annoyed for once.
2) Dabbler finally gets the lead out and pulls out her best gun to make a gory kill.
I just meant they may be subtly affected. They are still themselves and they would still have reason to do these things normally. I just meant maybe they are being very slightly manipulated towards violence. Sydney being annoyed because she is actively and intelligently resisting performing any violent acts.
Like with all truly subtle effects no I can’t prove it right away.
I’d disagree but at this point I wouldnt be surprised, given the OP nature, if Vehemence turned everyone into barnyard animals by flexing his left buttcheek or wiggling an ear because he can and wants to see some barnyard fights.
That’s ridiculous.
Everybody knows you wiggle your nose for magic! Your butt cheek wiggle is for making money.
Hell no. You do not want Vehemence to wiggle his nose!
That’s how he summons a black hole the size of the universe to destroy all life, since he has power to burn, and that would be counterproductive to his long term goal, which is the same as his short term goal, which is to beat people up so that he can beat people up, to get more powerful to he can beat people up some more.
That being said, I think the person who can and would truly make money from butt cheek wiggling is Dabbler. Or Harem.
Please tell me how this turned into this conversation btw.
Ask yourself why even suggest him wiggling his butt cheek. :p I’d take cosmic anamolies over him wiggling his cheeks any day… even if it makes him millions.
He will open up multiple black and white holes so he can feed on the violence of the multiverse!
“which is to beat people up so that he can beat people up, to get more powerful to he can beat people up some more.”
This is your plot. →
This is your plot on violence. ∞
Cause you have this thing with the word “wiggle”.
Good LORD man! That Apollo 13 move is terrible! Hiro nearly launches stalwarts package into outer space with that one! And yeah, This comic was about what I expected. That doesnt make it bad, it just makes me AN AWESOME GUESSER! MWAHAHAHA! I am Good Guesserman! Reporting for duty, Lt Cl Leander! Hmm, im going to take a wild guess and say this isnt the best time to be waiting for orders…. SEE?! My powers strike again!
Hey if it woke up everyone who was unconscious then Heatwave should be flaming mad and the Eyebeam guy should be glaring around randomly… That and Achilles should wake up from his nap and –well– do nothing under the rubble.
Achilles is, with no exception, *invincible*. This means, he’s a) not possible to knock unconscious, and b) even if he were, say, napping, the vehemic aura would be unable to hurt his sanity or mental state, meaning he’s unaffected.
I dunno to all of that. The limits of Achilles power are poorly understood. No shock there, he’s a side character, but its interesting to speculate on.
Clearly, his form cannot be harmed. Therefore, I think you are correct, that the rocks didn’t knock him out. On the other hand, does he sleep every night? If so, then unconsciousness is a thing he can do, and, maybe, Dabbler sleep spell could knock him out?
The vehmic wave (or Dabbler’s mojo) might work on him. I mean, as far as we know his emotions aren’t protected from ordinary wear and tear, yeah? You could bore him by talking about accounting. He is excited by various situations.
I wouldn’t be stunned either way, but my guess is that he’s currently berserk and furiously clawing at the rubble.
Heatwave is not napping, she is getting medical attention (wherever she is), and neither is Les napping, he is currently buried under a demolished restaurant and missing almost the entire fight :p
They have no real evac options to use in the 1 minute passing so she could easily be in range. Max did not zoom out of the fight, she probably left HW with one of the cross trained seals carrying superfluous lead tossers.
Achilles is immune to damage not control, nothing like a psychic to gank on the tank.
Quick, give everyone a kitten / puppy.
That won’t work if they are violently allergic to them
Besides, those puppies and kitties could have rabies.
Come on Sydney, give in to your anger. Unleash the PPO.
“Ooh, that dirty cheater!” *panting* “He makes me so angry!” *panting* “Very angry indeed!”
(Marvin the Martian reference?)
+1 sir
Shove an Illudium Q36 Explosive Space Modulator down V’s throat.
so Vehemence works exactly like the comic villains War Monger and Peace monger (who claims to want peace but feeds off the anger of protesters)
I think Sydney should grab ‘Death Tolls’ and throw him into Vehemence’s lightning aura. That Nemesis power of his might be the only thing other than Dabbler’s… er… other big guns that can stop V.
Yes. This. Please.
You can’t throw Death Toll with powers. His power won’t allow it.
True, but FWTDT might just choose to attack Veh, he has been awoken by the violence wake up..
It would fit that would be defeated by an oversight on his behalf, it wouldn’t involve any story breaking super powers as we already know FWTDT is far from invincible….
The other way I can see this ending is if FWTDT is goaded by Sydney into attacking Veh…
I do agree with you that this is a likely solution. I think it’s a crap solution though, because if he de-powers as badly as Anvil did then his head isn’t going to be attached for long.
Being a writer, I’m amazed at how all of these people with no talent to speak of are being critical of pacing, character development, and realism, when reading a freaking web comic that they apparently read twice a week. People, STFU.
The characters are great, and if you’re going to set a lead villain against a team of supers, you have to have either 1) an army (see The Avengers movie) or a quasi-godlike creature (see Darkseid). Vehemence can absorb emotional energy and use it in the form of any energy he wants. He can convert energy to matter, or he can push it back out in the form of same energy he received in order to force more violence and recharge.
I count 2. Big deal. Dave, you’re doing a great job, and the art is consistent and amazing.
I second this. It’s a great comic Dave, and if you’re reading these comment I sincerely hope you don’t take it too hard. Just keep it up, the majority of us still enjoy the comic ;)
(a bad comic does not get 700 comments in three days).
Yes. Totally.
As we all know, you should never give an opinion of something (novels, movies, comics, video games) unless you too are in that business. This is why Siskel & Ebert were known for the broad line of films they directed.
I see what you did there, Mechwarrior :)
People with no creative experience or training are totally entitled to express their opinions! They are also entitled to know how little those based-on-zero-real-world-experience opinions are worth.
You have my like sir, and respect.This is exactly the kind of intellect needed in places like this….and the government XD
I think there are already enough ad hominem attacks and sycophancy in government, actually.
Agreed. Great comic and I can’t wait to see how the team and Halo finally resolve the current delema.
Being a writer, of course you realize the value of constructive feedback. I comment because I like the comic and believe that by pointing out possible weaknesses it can improve further.
The first actual super fight of the comic has gone for over 70 panels with single breather, and the main purpose has been essentially to establish V as a badass; that much could’ve been done with much less. Now with V finding more and more ways to protract the battle, the comic’s core strength, the super team’s social interaction is taking a longer and longer hiatus.
V’s core power is the vehemic absorbption but the problem is that absurdly inclusive definition like your “use that energy for whatever” describes him too well.
If I could vote this comment up I would. With any luck you can bring sanity to this forum, or at least give Dave the motivation to continue with this great comic.
It’s good to know that only writers may themselves make critiques of other writers. Schools must stop making people do book reports. The Best Seller’s List must stop being published. Every gaming review magazine must cease publication. Movie reviewers – all of you except those who have made movies yourself, begone! Thank god that sane beejayjr that he’s pointed out that I and others (as loons we must be to not just post ‘we love everything we’re reading in this story arc’) must not critique until we’ve written our own books or comics. I shall start my novel immediately, sir!
I agree. I don’t see much problem with Vehemence having such (seemingly) limitless power and no discernible weakness, because he is designed to be a threat to a whole team of Superheroes! Look at enemies of the Avengers, or the JLA. Can Superman solo Darkseid? Not usually. Can Thor beat down Thanos? Not hardly. That’s the point. They are a massive threat, especially when first encountered, because they NEED to be. Also, just because we don’t KNOW of a weakness to V, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have one. Think about if he had the same powers/weaknesses as Superman, right now. He’d STILL be mopping the floor with most of the team because nobody here has Kryptonite, and unless Dabbler thought to use a LOT of potent magic, she probably wouldn’t see any real effect.
If you don’t like the pacing, or the plot, that’s your decision. You are entitled to your opinion, and I won’t try take that from you, but I suggest we all reserve our judgment for AFTER the action ends and we have the “whole story” at our fingertips. Just my opinion.
Remember that storyline where Thanos attacked and beat up Thor and the rest of the Avengers because he felt like it, without any ulterior motive beyond that, just for kicks? :)
Shh! You’re spoiling the plot of the upcoming movie “Infinity War Part 1!”
Darn. Should have said spoiler alert.
…We are talking about the same Thanos whose stated motivation is the extinction of all life, as a kind of gift to the personification of Death?
Okay, yeah, it’s a lot nuttier than Vehemence’s motivation, but it’s not really all that complex: he wants to kill things for the sake of killing things, in the same way that Vehemence wants to fight for the sake of fighting. His sole reason for fighting the Avengers (or anyone else, for that matter) is that they’re in the way of him getting some sweet Deathly lovin’. How, exactly, is that better than doing something “just for kicks” on the villainous motivation scale?
The consumer of a product is not qualified to have an opinion on how that product is and is not working for them or to thoughtfully delve into why that might be so?
The team we are just getting to know can only be challenged by God.
V has two powers: Turn violence into anything (energy and or matter no matter how complex or artificially intelligent that creation seems to be) or simply club them over the head with it. (they become violent)
_________________
Wow. Well, this has a sort of beauty in its simplicity anyway.
@beejayjr
As it happens, I am also a writer. Sold my work, even.
So long as my audience avoids leaving comments like “u r teh sux00r”, I quite like getting feedback both positive and negative. This comic has a lot going for it: it is often funny, the art is beautiful, the characters are distinct and interesting. It also has flaws, like every work ever; the readers are entirely justified in sharing their feelings and pointing out what they think those flaws are.
The facts are simple: This battle had a good climax when Death Toll was defeated. V then showed up and changed the battle from “massive brawl where everyone fights” to “one-on-one fight where everyone except Max and V just stand around and very occasionally make comments.” It’s also been going on for a long time in terms of the real world — someone could almost have had a baby since this fight started, and it’s been nearly two months since it started being all about V/Max instead of giving everyone some spotlight.
In my opinion, it is entirely justified for people to feel that V is turning into a God-Mode Sue, or that the fight is dragging on a bit.
I also write, and while I’ve enjoyed V’s antics, I get why we have a bunch of frustrated readers. There are areas in the writing that I felt could’ve been done better, such as V’s reveal, the power choices given, or even the timing of his regeneration, though overall I don’t find either him nor Max a couple of overpowered Mary Sues. So long as the person doesn’t spam things incessantly, those people have as much right to dislike this fight as much as we get to praise it.
Thanks! I think people are perfectly capable of critiquing things even if they haven’t made them before. I’ve never made a video game or a movie but I think I can speak pretty intelligently about them. Well, ones in certain genres anyway. The only thing people critiquing stuff they’ve never made themselves are lacking is real insight on the challenges of making that thing.
My own critique of the battle is that it is taking a bit too long. It wasn’t my intention to do a 75+ page fight but something I’m still terrible at is estimating how many pages it will take me to get through a scene. I want to wrap it up as quickly as I can, but I still want to do it in a satisfactory way. That’s why out of the next 5 pages, 3 of them are doubles and one of the singles has 14 panels on it. :P (it also explains why I’ve been so bad about updating the vote incentive.)
13 Doh Faces and one “Like a Boss” from Sydney… Got it.
well Dave you need to finish this arc then make a book of it.. then use all the money to hire a small army of colorists and take the comic to 5 days a week. :)
Now I’m wondering – I recently posted a review of Escape Dead Island on Amazon when someone asked how the game was, and I said how it’s garbage. Do I need to go program a video game now and apologize to Deep Silver for telling them how godawful their game is? :)
I see where she’d think that
Boosting = having bad guys fighting against the good guys to get a charge
Cheating = mind controlling the defeated into attacking the first person they see to get a charge
i wonder if his weakness is that he cant directly incite thru his powers, there must be a base to what fuels the violence enpowerment and he cant use his powers to cause violence that would make it easy to keep going so my guess is that the wave is doing nothing, but acting as a distraction since he doesnt want them attacking him when he weaker then he is now
Um… no. he can directly incite. Why is everyone forgetting that he’s the one who threw the first punch?
umm no he didnt he was waiting a round for them to fight he only thru the first punch for him self to show he was ready and already powered up and he never used his powers, since he fighting he shouldnt be able to feed on artificially induced violence, so i think your wrong on this part since the vilians and heros are only fighting themselves and since heros really wouldn’t have no real violent tendency towards another hero so that just blew your ship out the water
the wave is a distraction so he can try to kill max i doubt he can feed off violence if he created thru his own powers
oh…i bet i know what will happen. Sydney’s somehow going to use her true sight on everybody to snap them out of his mind control thanks to that upgrade she put into it and doesn’t know what it does. that or since Vehemence is using them to make himself stronger to kill Maxima, i’m guessing Maxima will have been right and once he reaches his peak strength his energy will pop like a bubble and he’ll fizzle out
Her true sight lets her see through illusions.
How the hell is seeing through an illusion supposed to stop anything.
So maybe that upgrade MIGHT do something, but that’d be dispelling illusions if anything. This probably isn’t an illusion, just an emotional change
It also lets her create illusions and see things elsewhere from a different perspective.
Its power upgrades could be anything to do with Perception.
This is when Sydney finally sics Deathtoll on Vehemence.
Hang on, everything we think we know about V’s powers come from what he has told us. If “dirty cheater” = filthy liar then his power set isn’t what we think it is. If Syd has clued in to the truth she could end this real quick.
No, ‘dirty cheater’ is him having everyone engaged in an all-out brawl, regardless of team
I agree.
I think he has reached his limit, but instead of showing weakness, he is trying to draw upon further violence to get just enough strength to kill Maxima, prior to losing his energy. However, instead of revealing this, he is making it seem like he is getting stronger and stronger. Nothing like demoralizing your heroes to have them hesitate and falter to gain that momentary upper-hand to snap their neck.
I think Sydney realizes he is losing energy and power and needs more violence to just maintain what he has. I think Sydney also recognizes that without violence around him, he would lose enough energy to have Max gain the upper hand within a short time. She won’t need the other orbs to have them reveal a mysterious power to deus ex machina this. She simply needs to stop the violence around her.
Separately, Hiro and Stalwart weren’t both knocked unconscious before, so I am not sure why they are affected, since Harem, Sydney, and Dabbler were not. I could see that Dabbler being an alien or Sydney being in her force-field may have some legitimacy to protection, but not Harem (If Harem was affected, would she be fighting herself? (Stop hitting me! Stop hitting you! Stop hitting yourself!)? Ha, but I digress).
I think Dave is providing us with something new in the superhero comic genre. Normally we see villains and heroes with a stable known power set and use only a fraction of them in battles. However, it has become quite obvious in this universe that there are a large group of supers with multiple powers who like to use more of them, rather than less. Maxima, Dabbler, Sydney, and many others we haven’t seen, I am sure. Just because the trope of short battles and limited power usage exists, and we are used to it, doesn’t mean that it applies in this universe. I think what we are seeing with V is an example of things to come: villains with complex plans that involve utilizing a series of powers that are not previously revealed all in one comic. You DO see this in normal comics, but not all in one comic release (I’m thinking of the major crossover battles that took months to build and release to the public and corssed multiple comic titles).
Dr. Doom, for example, has a tremendous set of resources to pull upon, and has demonstrated this repeatedly. Just not all at once. Superman himself has a large amount of powers he can still utilize, but again, not all at once.
In this case, I think V is going “all out” and using every advantage he can get, which means he came in with a plan to use the majority of his power set like this. He may not have intended to have the arm replacement, but the other parts he would have planned. I hardly think this is the first time he had some teeth knocked out. And I think he flat out lied about becoming stronger as this occurs. I think it just gave him a short boost that he is using, but is now burning off too soon.
Although the battle is much longer (page-wise) than what people have come to expect, I think that the perspective of going back and reading the entire battle from start to finish (instead of waiting for the updates) DOES help give a better perspective of the overall fight. People complaining otherwise are either not used to it or perhaps aren’t interested in this type of comic style. Regardless, they still feel they can provide input, and are commenting, so there is still a strong appeal.
Dave, keep up the good work. I enjoy this comic immensely and have been using my Amazon link with you more than the other online comics because of this. I plan on watching this for the longer haul and I am very interested in seeing Sydney and the team evolve over time.
Actually, Stalwart -was- knocked unconscious by one punch from Vehemence. I don’t remember Hiro ever being knocked out though, but he must have been because he’s being controlled now.
I think he was taken out when […] Death Toll shot Jiggawatt at him after absorbing her.
Oh okay. Yeah I knew he had to have been taken out at some point since he was unconscious during the big splash screen of the damage during Vehemence’s reveal of his power. Just couldnt place when it happened.
Stalwart got up again after the Jiggawatt hit and between V’s upper cut and the shockwave of Syd dropping Anvil the was taken back down.
You clearly see Stalwart is unconscious in the Vehemence reveal page.
Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification. I missed that the first time through.
Dr. Tim +1 to you sir
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1559
You know what that says to me? He’s Not Flagging in Energy. He just needs More Energy than he Currently has and Maxima isn’t providing enough to push him to the Peak that he Wants. So … how does he resolve this issue of not enough V juice?
Create more. And how do you create more? Do an AoE MC of everyone in the area. Orders? Kill anything that moves. That’s a good chunk of violence right there.
This of course will start increasing his Vehemic Energy. Again.
Performance issues? Dabbler probably has some Viagra handy…
Command: Fight
Reason they all act wonk: It isn’t the conscious mind running the Vombies it is their subconscious dream self.
Yep. Apparently it is mind control-level violence, or they wouldnt doing something that runs counter to their natural inclinations (villains fighting other villains, heroes fighting other heroes, instead of heroes fighting villains). And the railgun can’t pierce Vehemence’s plot armor, apparently either.
Well I think V is pretty awesome… the way he speaks stands out…. as for how is he going to be defeated. My guess is that it is going to have something to do with the illusion that sydney can create. LIke taunt him into attacking her until all his power is gone…
or she will use kind words and that will be his undoing. Either way it will be interesting to see how Dave writes his way out of this corner.
I feel like you’re saying that this is Captain Planet, and Sydney’s power is Heart.
Now I can’t get it out of my head. Bah.
Pander,
Perhaps this will clear your head regarding anything about Sydney having the Captain Planet Heart power:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/226
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/231
I know it cleared mine!
Okay. Mati would not have done either of those things. Thank you.
Just the fact that you know his name … scares me
Go planet!
Reading this comic arc is a bit like being stuck on an extended whale-watching cruise that was supposed to last one day but instead has lasted two months. It’s lovely watching the ocean, the cetaceans and seeing the sun rise and set over it. But, honest to Pete, you get so sick of seafood. :(
Unlike a whale-watching trip, you can stop reading this at any time, the fact you haven’t means you like to complain
You know…. telling people ‘if you don’t like it, leave’ is a very poor ad hominem argument.. It doesnt mean he likes to complain. It means he doesnt like Vehemence and this part of the story arc. Which he is really not alone at all about. Vehemence is an extraordinarily annoying character to read, even for those of us who have been reading since the beginning and genuinely LIKE DaveB’s art, storytelling ability, and use of tropes. Usually.
but you can stop reading for a month and come back to read 8 pages in a row. It will read like a nice story in that case.
I found that any non 5 day a week updating schedule can get too long when they want to do something more complex like DaveB does with V. Yes its long for me but I know that rereading all makes it a nice reading speed.
Knew someone would accuse me of saying “IYDLI,TL”, which at no time was that said
As Sephiroth said, if you have a problem with the pacing (or the characters), then take a break (or, to go along with the whale watching analogy, ‘take a nap’) and come back later
Personally still liking everything about Fedorka (and probably the minority of one, have only once had a problem with this comic, and that was concerning, umm, Anvil)
For me to take a nap through everything that’s been dragged out repetitively in this fight, I’d need to start learning how to literally hibernate for an entire season. And when I woke up it would still be going on, apparently. I’ve actually started a business and expanded to a new office in the time this fight is taking.
I’m just imagining in-universe Pander wheeling her office chair to the window of her 30th floor office three miles away and seeing the yellow glow of Vehemence’s markings. “Ugh, still!?’
… that would be me, yes. :)
Except that we just want to go to the party that is planned after the whale watching (the end of the flashback, back to the present. Or maybe Sydney’s training montage).
Not just give up on the entire trip
Just sit right back
And you’ll hear a tale,
A tale of a fateful strip.
That started from this comic page,
About this tiny team.
The rookie was a spazzy hyper lass,
The Colonel gold and hard,
Twelve heroes set out that day,
For a three hour meal,
A three hour meal.
Next page it turns out Sydney has the mysterious “Lurker power” and can feed of negativity from the comment section. She subsequently ends up one-shooting Vehemence with a wet willy.
Guessing Wart isn’t wearing a cup :P
Miffed Sydney (with the spikey shoulders) means Fedorka is going to be getting a right talking to from her :D
Never get teabagged by Stalwart. Ever.
Agreed.
I keep reading comments about how V is so overpowered. V is so overpowered that he cannot generate his own power efficiently. Against another opponent he will either defeat them before getting really strong, or get beaten before he can get going. As for his powers, they are nothing more than spells. Stone skin, giant strength, regeneration, ect. I think that he was almost out of power before casting that AoE rage spell, but we didn’t notice because the prior spells had not worn off yet.
Of course V could just be an over powered illusionist who is making everyone think that this is all happening. Sydney has only used the true sight ball to send her own illusion to talk to V not to detect on him.
We will see. I expect this fight to be wrapped up by the end of the year.
One more thing. Who the hell is Marry Sue?
Mary Sue (or Marty Stu/Gary Stu) – A fictional character who is so perfect as to be annoying.
Also, usually (but not always) an author self-insertion
Not always author self-insertion (like that guy in Least I Could Do webcomic). But it is often author wish-fulfillment. Which is still technically accurate, since DaveB did say he wanted Vehemence to be the person who everyone says ‘oh no, it’s Vehemence, run away.’
I didnt actually mention that part of the extended definition though since I’m not making an insult at DaveB (who has made a great comic where I like all the characters, heroes and villains, EXCEPT Vehemence – and I even liked, or at least could stomach, Vehemence right up until the regeneration stuff), just at Vehemence as his powers keep making him more and more poorly designed as time goes on. And yes, I can critique a fictional character’s power setup as being overpowered and bad for a story without it being an insult to the author, people.
No, you can’t, because the fictional character is a direct product of the author
I’m not quite sure to what you’re responding.
Yea, he’s only so powerfull now because he was able to catch everyone by suprise, and perfectly set up an entire event. He’ll never get this lucky ever again.
Besides, he’s still not strong enough to actually kill Maxima
true that he is not ultra powerful if you can beat him in time. after this fight something tells me they would have to do a lot of tactics training…
I *really* should have seen the now-implied secondary power coming. You did tell us that he’s in some ways an inverse of Dabbler, and we know she projects as well as absorbs…
Would sonic attack be disrupted by lightening if the “crack” of the thunderbolt was loud enough?
Not in any reliable way
Are you asking about sonic attacks in general? Or Breakpoint’s sonic powers in specific. If you are asking about Breakpoint, then you could always read her bio- and ask the creator a question directly.
No, sound cannot disrupt lightning, though this was something people actually did believe back in medieval times.
I read this in a website about weather myths:
In medieval Europe, during thunderstorms, it was general practice to ring church bells violently in an effort to keep the lightning from striking the tall church spire. Some felt the clamor of the bells dispersed evil spirits that sought to destroy the church with fire; others claimed that the noise of the bells disrupted the lightning strokes. (The second reason explains the common inscription on medieval bells: Fulgura Frango. which means “I break up the lightning flashes.”)
During the years from 1753 to 1786, lightning struck 386 French church towers. Lightning running down the bell ropes killed 103 French bell ringers. In 1786, the French government finally outlawed the custom. Apparently they used the ‘trial and error’ method of finding out that sound does not disrupt lightning.
Btw, DaveB would using 1 million candela of concentrated light being used to blind Vehemence’s retinas be considered ‘violence’? Or deafening him be considered violence? I ask because both would involve damage, but not an actual ‘act’ per se, like staring into the sun then finding you’ve burned your eyes out isnt ‘violence.’
I would pay good money to see Rugby vs Curling. I bet those curlers get VICIOUS.
Of course they do, especially the Canadian ones. They got rocks and broomsticks y’know. ;p
As far as pacing, writing, etc. goes…..I’m all for Dave doin’ whatever he wants.
He can out-draw me, out-write me, and I’m betting he knows the subject material better than I do.
So, keep doin’ what you doin’.
Thumbs up for this comment as well.
I only thought of the pacing at first, many updates ago, because Dave told me it was taking too long compared to what he, the author, wanted.
Who’s the woman in panel 2? I don’t think we’ve seen her before.
The woman in panel 2 was taken out by jiggawatts first entrance in this fight..
Wow… good eye.
At this point V is absurd. I get that you wanted someone that could be more than a match (in battle) for the ARC team, but his power set in too much. While I know this is a super hero comic, it’s beginning to ruin my suspension of disbelief.
In my own writing, when I’ve created a character that is too powerful to be used fairly; I bind them by serious rules or restrictions that prevent them from upsetting the balance of the story, world, universe, etc.
He is ‘bound by serious rules or restrictions’, we just haven’t seen what they are yet, but Sydney probably has an idea
Using internet slang, I shall respond to you.
Pix or it didn’t happen.
Give it a couple days and you will see the pix
I actually hope you’re correct.
The woman in panel 2 was taken out by Jiggawatts first entrance in the fight..
It looks like a wave of rage to me. The people are attacking those closest to them.
It would be interesting to know the range of the rage boost. It would not be good to be in the crosshairs of an angry Peggy with a sniper rifle.
Since we have been speculating on all possible resolutions to this ‘kerfuffle’, I would like to add my theory to the mix. The savior of the day that brings reason and tranquility back to the affected supers will be the one person that never wanted to fight in the first place….. the Barberian.
Then the last line of this arc can be Barberian saying, “That was a close shave!”
Why did the Barberian join the fight? –because his friends told him, and he told two friends and they told two friends…. It was all conditioning.
Oh god please stop with the barber puns. No more cutting remarks. You’re making me want to curl up and dye.
I think we should make this a permanent thing! Or is that too much for this crew? I’ve met several people on here who would think this conversation was just their style.
This is entire thread is filling me with dread.
Locks.
I think we can still get a few bangs out of the mane idea here.
Stalwart vs. Hiro should go Stalwarts way, I think. Hope he doesn’t kill his buddy.
After that kick the family jewels? Even if he wins, his kids will lose :p
okay…once again halo is preaching to the choir…but SOMEONE really has to STEP IN sincerley. this is geting OUT OF ORDER or even…reach at this point.
she is the only one “trying to think. if anyone can call it that way in her situation. but…shit is getting OUT OF HAND and they need to FREAKING USE THEIR BRAINS FAST…very fast…
i swear this team got potential but fromt he start…it scares me how they “use it”…
I thought of a possible way to deal with Vehemence but it wouldn’t work if the bad guys were under. Now though…..
Basically,
1) Sydney attacks the Nemisis guy (whom the bell tolls or something), thus focusing his abilities against her
2) Dabbler now uses her infatuation spell on Nemisis to take control of him
3) Send Nemisis to fight Vehemence.
Since nemesis has the power to counter any *single* opponent! he would be perfect against Vehemence.
He counter attacks not opponents. And the powers his abilities generates to do so seem random with their only requirement being that they stop the incoming attack. Sometimes they just oppose it equally, sometimes they reverse it and send it back and sometimes they attack the source like when they drained Anvil. I bet Death Toll has absolutely no idea how his power is going to choose on this roll table until the last moment.
“He counters attacks not opponents” so many typos I’m making this update…
Ouch on that sonic boom crotch kick
Champions wise, this is an interesting question. I’d say he has a end reserve that starts at 0 and only recharges when in a violent situation. The degree of recharge based on how violent. 2 end per phase while watching a scuffle. 30 end per phase while watching a super battle. His Cosmic Power Pool probably also has an aid that makes it stronger the longer he is around a battle. At the moment his end is probably replenishing as fast as he uses it and the pool is likely maxed.
Maxima on the other hand is a classic variable slot multipower. Math is a super high dex/speed MA. Dabbler is likely a Cosmic Power Pool as well. She holds items but she seemingly has an unlimited number of foci to draw on, which makes it an insignificant limitation. Add in martial arts, mental powers, effectively shape shifting through illusion. Maxima may be the most powerful, but Dabbler would be the most expensive character by far.
Well this was proposed waaaay back when he first revealed his power when his similarities to Dabbler were discussed. Though I wonder if he could have made them fight him specifically, as Dabbler can make people want to sex her specifically, had he wanted.
Not much going on to discuss other then Sydney seems to be truly upset. (she has an odd mind in combat… but fun!)
Everyone wants Death Toll so bad they can taste him but his powers can take time to roll a natural 20 or whatever so V might get a chance to counter him if he can attack him in multiple ways at once. (seems like he can)
Death Toll or no Opal would be really useful if she can be reclaimed from the madness or at least aimed towards V.
Still hoping for something more unique from Sydney though.
I may be one of the only people who doesn’t want FWTDT to be the solution to the V; it’s petty, I know, but I’d kind of like the heroes of the story to take V down, not a drafted villain.
The first comment you’ve made I can agree with…
What, not even that asking a character’s creator about the character is a valid way to get information?
You know, I don’t think Sydney has used the truthsight on Vehemance yet. She was telepresenceing with him, but I don’t think the sight works through the clone. Might be interesting to see what that looks like.
Like I said in another comment, she’s truesighted him by the simple fact that she had Vehemence in line of sight, while holding the yellow orb, in order to do the telepresence.
So we know he’s not a two story tall neon green chicken for sure. Assuming she can even see out of her own eyes when she is looking out of her “other eyes”, something human brains are not set up or trained for, its probably pretty hard to notice much. (further assuming both effects work simultaneously)
I’m sure if he wanted to at this point he could BECOME a two story tall neon green chicken. It probably would require him to say something like ‘And now for something particularly special! Watch this!” Then foom, he’ll become one because he has so much power to burn. And he can lay eggs that are nuclear bombs. That would be so in keeping with how I feel about him.
Suddenly all those films where the generals keep talking about “breaking a few eggs” make perfect sense to me.
But anyway. I don’t think it will help but she hasn’t really made a point of actually making an effort to look at him with the true sight orb active and in true sight mode.
Sight… I guess that means if they just use audio or tactile illusions without a visual she is boned.