Grrl Power #275 – Wake up call
The rather spirited debate about Vehemence and the direction of the fight continued in the comments for the last page, I’m sure this one will only add to it. Again I want to reiterate that the whole fight isn’t rebooting at this point despite what it looks like. I mean… you know, pretend it is so you get that “ooh how ever will they survive?” vibe and all that.
I think the tail end of the battle is bumping up against the weakness of the webcomic format, which is that a bi-weekly posting schedule makes it feel like a bit of a slog. It’s only been three pages since Vehemence regenerated his arm. In webcomic time that’s a week and a half, in comic book time, that’s maybe 30 seconds to turn each page.
After I drew this page it occurred to me that there’s probably no way Harem didn’t see the wave coming. One of her big strengths is being able to view a battlefield from multiple angles simultaneously. Right now she’s at a slightly reduced capacity though. The strawberry blonde “default” one had her wrist broken by Vekter’s rock chucking antics, so she’s currently in un-teleported limbo. It will definitely suck for her when she re-teleports that one cause for her it will be the instant after her wrist was broken. Another of her is probably rummaging around the Archon Armory looking for something that might help with Vehemence.
It’s easy to forget that information we as readers take for granted isn’t omnisciently shared among everyone in the comic. Even I forgot for a while that Sydney and Harem don’t know about Maxima’s power pool – remember it’s classified info and it’s way above their pay grade. Sydney barely even has a pay grade at this point.
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome which I can’t live without anymore, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
SuperheroThey're super, thanks for asking!
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Not UpdatingNo longer updating or only updates sporadically, but definitely worth reading.
SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
He hit the teleportress. A quick round of diplomacy by Halo and maybe she teleports V over the ocean?
Yeah, if she’s game, but even if she just does what she tried before and teleports the 3 dozen villains away it might be enough. That would still not feed him, and he needs more power in order to follow through on his threat to crush Maxima. He just blew a lot of his power standing them up. If Halo gets Opal to leave with her buds there’s nothing for V to power up on other than his own violence.
Do you think he’s gonna have everyone ise some weird combined energy attack and then create some giantinc violent explosion, remember how the author said the only reason Vehemence cant do things like absorb the violence and earthquake caused is his lack of range but like he say with how much localized violence they charged him up with he could be able to do it after all his range increases with his power
She hated the “good guys” so much she was willing to risk not getting away at all in order to deny them even one prisoner. I don’t think she’s going to work with them for any reason.
remember V is the reason that she was KO’d “the enemy of my enemy is my ally”(i would’ve used the proper quote and said friend but lets face it they’re still criminals, it would be a truce at most)
We’re all getting ticked off because Vehemence seems all-powerful, and that Max doesn’t have a chance. The story’s not over, folks. Allow Maxima the possibility of some character development. Maybe even a power-up. She might not be more powerful than Vehemence now, but in a few months? (Or however long in comic-time: seriously Dave, this fight has been dragging on. It’s not the actual length of the thing, it’s just that nothing of substance seems to have happened for the past few weeks.)
But seriously. Everyone is getting all butthurt, self-righteous, self-important, offended, and offensive, all over what? For you militant feminists, who are all hurt that Max isn’t wiping the floor with every villain she meets, go read a comic where that happens. And if there aren’t any, then make one. But don’t get all offended that this one isn’t doing what YOU want it to do. It’s not yours. Relax, let Dave do his thing. Characters have setbacks. This is one of them. Give the story a chance to progress.
(although Dave, it would be nice to see some action by some of the other characters besides a few side-panel remarks)
I will say one thing though. V is going over-the-top on a lot of things. The villain speechery, the power mongery, it all seems a little suspect for someone whom I would assume has knowledge of just how dumb that is to do. I feel like he’s misleading them, or leading up to something. If it seems like he’s overpowered, maybe that’s what he wants them to think. Maybe a part of the aura he’s pushing makes people feel vulnerable. After all, a cornered animal can be very violent. And if someone thinks they’re defeated, then that belief can be a contributing factor to the actual defeat.
1) I’m not a militant feminist just because I like the uniqueness of a woman being the strongest being in a fictional universe, as opposed to every other comic out there. This is becoming bland.
Case in point, Sinfest (another webcomic) because stupid right after pretty much every storyline became about ‘The Sisterhood.’ Because the sisterhood could never lose and is continually presented as ‘perfect and unbeatable’ and it’s shoehorned into the readers head that we should think that too. Same thing as Vehemence.
2) Actually you said a lot of things I’d normally say and agree with aside from a few sentences. I don’t think you’re correct about the aura pushing making people feel vulnerable though. Would feel like a cop out. Also, to address any of the parts of your post that I don’t agree with, zippydippywiggle.
because stupid=became stupid
Like the entire middle paragraph, I don’t agree with a word you said. Not to mention people are annoyed at the fact not that Maxima isnt just curbstomping everyone, it’s that she hasnt even….
oh look at you, you almost got me writing out novels again!
Zippydippywiggle.
She’s basically done everything in the fight against Vehemence, and she could probably have beaten everyone except Death Toll in the main brawl. I’m sure there’s something she could have done better, but It’s hard to think while being punched in the face, pinned to the ground and electrocuted.
Actually she only started to try to do anything against Vehemence after EVERYONE else, combined, was not able to even wear him down a little. Then she spent most of the fight being beaten to hell after getting in 2 hits, a pepper grinding motion, then after a lot of blocking (which also was doing no good at all, blowing off an arm. None of which helped at all.
TL;DR
Ziggydiggywiggle
Oops, I mean zippydippywiggle. Ziggywiggywiggle is out of line.
And now my computer’s slow loading speed is working against me. I hadn’t read any of your comments on my post before writing my reply to my own.
Could you clarify what exactly you mean by “zippydippywiggle?” You probably said something about it in a previous day’s comments, but I have no desire to trawl through an encyclopedia’s worth of internet backwash to find it.
As I said on the first page, in the past three updates, I’ve wound up making verbose, LONG, very well thought out, based-on-existing-fact-instead-of-opinion-or-assumption reasoning about why Vehemence is a horrible character, what would likely be happening in the future updates (of which I’ve so far been SADLY correct), and the motivations of people who are having glee at Maxima’s curbstomp. Rather than write another few THOUSAND lines, for the fourth update in a row, I’ve condensed it to ‘zippydippywiggle’ to save everyone time.
Also! If Vehemence was a woman, would you have the same objections? Sorry I’m kinda spam-posting here
Also, this apparently is what it looks like when I get butthurt. I’m sorry if it’s a little childish/defensive/(insert adjective of choice)
Also apparently you can’t fathom someone wanting the penultimate female super to be able to win without saying ‘oh you just feel butthurt – it can’t be because the character of Vehemence is horribly constructed’
THAT’S childish. zippydippywiggle.
If Vehemence was a woman you bet your life I would object still – it’s still a godmoding powergaming perfect flawless villain.
The only difference if Vehemence was a woman would be my saying that V is pulling new powers out of HER butt.
Actually, there is a character like that in the comics who is a female in Wonder Woman comics called Genocide. Who is basically a female Vehemence…. and similarly massively overpowered and a HORRIBLE, BROKEN character who can beat Wonder Woman and Superman at the same time because she is powered by anger and war – except her powers are strength, teleportation, healing, hyper reflexes, and invulnerabiity. Also can create auras of despair and hate and rage to create more violence and anger to power her further.
She beat everyone in the Justice League basically, including Green Lantern, Firestorm, and Red Tornado in seconds. And the lasso doesnt work on her because … reasons. Then had the lasso sewn INTO her. She’s a walking female villainous mary sue. And is immune to magic because of Felix Faust. And an awful character.
And yet somehow Vehemence has managed to be even worse than THAT horrible mistake created in DC comics.
You sure are trying hard to tie me to being a ‘militant feminist’ because a woman apparently can’t want a female character to win in a fight of physical power without being a militant feminist. Rather than, you know…. wanting to see a well-fleshed out villain who isnt a walkind deus ex machina, or seeing the hero be given the idiot ball and made to look pathetic continually.
I’m not a militant feminist just because I like the uniqueness of a woman being the strongest being in a fictional universe, as opposed to every other comic out there. This is becoming bland.
Actually, you might like Worm. Not the best writing in the world (although it gets a lot better after the first couple arcs), but it’s hella long and has loads of important/powerful female characters (moreso than male characters actually, although sadly the two scariest villains are both male… ish, I guess, in the case of the scariest).
My ‘militant feminists’ remark may have been out of line. If so, I apologize. Pander, that was mostly in response to you. Your “zippydippywigglery” set me off a little. I think being silly is fun and good, but that sounds like mockery. I would ask you to kindly refrain. But this is the Internet, so do whatever the fuck you want, I suppose.
My frustration stems from your apparent dislike for strong male characters. (Strong in the literal sense here, we’ve seen a few of the men get quality airtime) If you want a femdom comic, then perhaps that’s what you should add to your Google search. But villains are supposed to be strong, yes? Or maybe it’s that V exhibits both physical and magical strength? Yes, I’m calling what he does “magic” because that would, to me, comfortably explain his flexibility. You give a wizard enough power, and she/he becomes pretty godlike pretty fast. As far as the actual mechanics of the magic in this comic, well… I don’t know that Dave has set that up yet. It’s tricky. But V’s power source seems to fit the results.
Pander, I would appreciate some honest dialogue with you. This forum is… not exactly the clearest or most direct way to do so. Many of us seem to have fallen victim to the online disinhibition effect, as clearly described by John Gabriel’s Greater Internet Dickwad Theory. I should like a chance to fight the trend.
I have absolutely no dislike of strong male characters. I’m a big Superman fan (at least New Earth Superman – Silver age superman was moronic). Next to Sydney, my favorite character in this webcomic is actually STALWART – which I believe I’ve mentioned. Maxima’s my third favorite. But I do not like Maxima being made into a chump just because she’s supposed to be a penultimate level super and, being female to boot, several mysogynist mindsets (not you, but the people who I’m referring to know who they are).
And I find it weird that you think that because I like seeing the physically strongest character be a female means I want a femdom comic. I want a comic that features GIRL POWER. You know. Like GRRL POWER… the name of the webcomic? I see no grrlpower here. I just see grrlcurbstomping by sociopathic godlike manpower. How the hell does that equate to my wanting femdom?
zippydippywiggle with a side of fries.
I also have an intense dislike of flawless, perfect characters with no achilles heel. Even Maxima has an achilles heel of her power distribution. Vehemence has none at this point, and there was never a chance for him to HAVE one, because by the time anything about him was introduced in the storyline, he was already basically invincible. That might be ‘bad’ for a hero, but it’s AWFUL for the villain. Unstoppable villains are horrible plotlines. Remember the storyline where Darkseid gained the anti-life equation, then used it to subjugate the universe? No? Right. Because that would have sucked.
Remember the one where Joker gained the power of Mxyzptlk? That actually did happen – and that storyline, Emperor Joker, was equally moronic and awful, and the only reason he didnt just win in the end after killing Batman multiple times was a contrived Character Induced bit of Stupidity where he defined himself by Batman, and with Batman being helpless, it wasnt any fun anymore.
If heroes are defined by their villains, I’d hate to think what that says about Archon, if they have an utterly bland and generic godgamer like Vehemence as their arch-villain.
Character Induced Stupidity?
Interesting.
:)
Its a term used in comic book forums to explain when a chaeacter does sonething that makes ansolutely no sense given their advanrages, histiry, etc. ie, in trope language, “carrying the idiot ball,” in order to progress or conclude a story.
Oh, I know the term. Hence my notation of it all together, capitalized. CIS and all.
Just wondering if I knew you from elsewhere, but I’m guessing different board. Especially since your use of it is slightly different from my own. CIS where I come from isn’t something to advance the story – that would be Plot Induced Stupidity where I’m from. Rather, CIS is used to indicate a genuine lack of intelligence on the part of the character preventing them from using their abilities effectively.
The Rhino being the Posterboy for this kind of thing.
PIS examples would be any Flash story lasting more than a couple of pages, or Superman conveniently forgetting in almost every fight that vast superspeed is an actual part of his powerset.
:)
Not sure if you’d know me from somewhere else. I generally don’t post on comment boards or bboards – just play on superhero mushes. I’ve maybe made a comment or two on stuff like the occasional webcomic forum or on ‘versus’ fights on comicvine, but that’s about it. I -might- have gotten CIS and PIS mixed up though. You might be right given your examples, which I totally agree with. But I do see a lot of in-comic smart people for some reason doing absurdly stupid things, then explaining why they did the stupid thing (which means they’re aware it was stupid) but their reasoning itself is also stupid) or they are being intentionally blind to the stupid thing they’re doing – Lex Luthor does this a lot, as does Superman with his reasoning that he grew up always holding back, so he got used to always holding back. It doesnt make sense when you think ‘dude, you were going to die. You don’t hold back when you’re going to die – survival instinct has to kick in at some time right?’
Sometimes, CIS and PIS are necessary, though I really think it should be used more sparingly than it is (especially when the easier way to solve it would be to just keep the characters powered down to more suspension-of-disbelief-worthy limits. Like in New Earth, they lower the top speed of Kryptonians like Superman and Supergirl to .998c (99.8 percent of the speed of light) as their maximum non-sun-dipped speed when they’re pushing themselves, whereas certain Speedsters (Barry and Wally mainly) are able to go faster than light solely because the Speed Force allows them to literally violate the laws of physics as part of what the Speed Force is (while Kryptonians don’t have that excuse).
Didnt finish a sentence ‘several mysogynist mindsets seem to be in glee of her being curbstomped’
Now that sentence makes sense.
I should also mention that if Vehemence at LEAST had some actual MOTIVATION beyond ‘because I want to’ that would be -something-.
Kore, from Goblins: Life through their Eyes, is an almost unstoppable paladin who doesnt have to follow any of the paladin rules. But he has a motivation to cleanse the world of all evil – even potential evil. He has downsides to his abilities – he has to keep collecting souls in order to keep going since his own is leaking out of a wound, and he’s basically in a state of undeath. The whole ‘kill all potential evil’ thing is possibly what’s keeping him going. Plus he is actually cursed (which Forgath found when he knocked the helmet off of him). And in fights with the main characters, it’s a lot more back-and-forth than against run-of-the-mill monsters.
Vehemence doesnt even have that going for him. He has NO downside to his abilities or powers at all. And that’s boring from a character standpoint and a storytelling standpoint. I LIKE this comic. I hate the character of Vehemence and the reasoning behind why this fight has gone like this instead of the original method. Honestly, the only way I can even see to make this halfway palatable is using Death Toll to beat Vehemence, and even then it would be a stretch to in any way redeem Maxima’s reduction to chump status, unless she’s the one to grab Death Toll and use him to block Vehemence (maybe with an assist by Sydney via lighthook moving Death Toll over to her).
zdw.
Of course Vehemence has downsides to his powers, he requires a lot of violent energy generated for him to feed on to reach his current levels, as he’s made VERY clear she could easily take him out if she caught him at a time when he hadn’t had the preparation to power himself up to a level equal to or greater than hers. He also has a very understandable and believable motivation, to test the limits of his abilities and just have a good fight (really not everyone has to have some deep driving need or motivation to be believable, many just do things because it’s what they feel like doing at the time without some deep meaning to it or motivation).
Honest dialog where?
The militant feminist crack was definitely out of line. And read what the zippydippywiggle is about. It’s not about mockery. It’s about not repeating what I’ve said for the last 3 updates. Which apparently has gone out the window.
On going overboard, wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that vehmic energy is intoxicating. He’s never been this pumped before, it might well have mental effects that he isn’t prepared for.
So, I get that Vehemence woke them up/gave them enough energy to ignore their injuries, and that makes sense, based on his power set …but why did the handcuffs unlock?
Telekinesis.
Yeah, I think his vehmic energy can literally do anything if he has enough of it. I presume there’s a big surcharge on “TK everyone’s wrist cuffs off”, but he’s confident that the battle re-igniting will pay him back for the expenditure.
I suspect, however, that folks aren’t going to want to re-engage (remember the Barberian!) and V will have wasted a bunch of power standing them up.
I see no cost that any of his ‘do anything’ powers have actually cost him. He still has managed to be able to shrug off everyone, electrocute Maxima to the point where she needs to have full armor to even barely survive, not shrink, and keep his regeneration and increased strength and invulnerability.
zippydippywiggle.
I mean I see no sign that any of his …. blah blah blah….
Evidence V is paying: Author statement in 274
I actually think his regeneration may not be Vehmic manipulation powered. When he did it he described it as “one more power”. He may be a 2 power villain, Power 1: Vehmic Manipulation, Power 2: Regenerate and become stronger by doing so.
I’m also not certain whether he is paying power to stay big, or whether it cost to become big. My instinct is that transforming costs power, but staying transformed does not. My guess is it would cost power to revert to his human sized form. No way to know though.
Yes, I do know that the author said that, so yeah, that’s pretty strong evidence I guess. I just mean I havent seen any evidence of that actually happening in the comic, based on Vehemence’s actions each time he does a new ability with vehemic power to burn. It just doesnt make a lot of sense that he keeps doing these magic tricks and yet each page he gets still more powerful, and able to do more impressive feats. Doesnt give a tone of ‘weakening’
Personally I actually think that there is at least ‘some’ Vehemic energy going in to maintaining his size. But again from Dave’s comments his pool is ‘currently’ Wide and deep thanks to the large super battle. I do think that he has attempted to revive the villains to get more Vehemic power. And that the villains do not quite realize that he has also amped up their desire for battle. Having no idea though just how ‘much’ power he can store or absorb of that pool is part of what makes it difficult for us to imagine just how he is doing this and how much power he is actually utilizing for the vehemic spells (if he’s using any). And I hadn’t thought of the AOE ‘wizard unlock’ I did think he used a variation of EMP, Didn’t think that the cuffs might be hardened against that type of attack / power (they don’t look extra insulated if you get my drift, but I ‘could’ be wrong)
On further review, I don’t think it’s TK. He could only have TK’d it one of two ways- either straight ripping them off, or manually unlocking them via entering some kind of keycode. He didn’t do the former, as they clearly haven’t been snapped off, and he hasn’t shown the fine motor control in his powers necessary for the second.
It seems to me more likely that the energy wave caused some kind of powersurge which shorted out the cuffs. However, that seems like pretty bad design on the part of whoever designed the cuffs. They should be hardened against that sort of powersurge, and even one happens, proper failsafe design would dictate they fail in the locked position, precisely so an already cuffed prisoner can’t automatically escape (though the tranc system would have to shut down since there’s no way to monitor the dosage). That said, it wouldn’t be the first time a field test revealed a critical design flaw. Maybe Dave could work in a line from Max about faulty cuffs later.
Possibly that instead.
AOE Wizard Unlock. :) Everyone’s cars unlocked just now too. Also their phones I guess.
Did it also unlock the secret to their hearts? ;)
Ah, just like we saw Dabbler do earlier. Interesting. Thanks for the reply. :)
Careful boys, Dabbler’s pants just unzipped themselves….
eh, as long as the Vehemence arc doesn’t turn into a Arch Mage arch. I mean girl Power has been my weekly fix for about, a year or 2? Where LFG lost my interest from the arch mage saga.
Girl Power has been kept pretty damn fresh in comparison, I mean every page has had some sort of action and not just sydney powering up her ultimate gigaplex form to defeat super vehemence after he reveals his true Super Secret Form (this is after blowing up earth and wishing it back twice. and failing to use a spiritomb.. )
I’m observing this fight with something like excitement, but in spaghetti form. Because it’s very drawn out.
Not a criticism, I love the webcomic/webserial format, I can happily wait for the next instalment, as it’s better than waiting a month or even a year to find out what happens next (as is the case with many TV shows and books). I just find it amusing.
Is there a way for me to block or minimize specific posters? There is one who has been posting continuously since 7:20. Seriously this guy has spent 3 hours posting giberish and it makes is a pain to read the comments that others are making.
My day off from work. Playing The Last of Us and reading webcomics and vegging. Also… not gibberish.
Ask and you shall receive… https://github.com/huancz/userscripts/raw/master/grrlpowercomic/commentHighlight.user.js . I tested it a bit in firefox and will open pull request once I have time to test it more thoroughly.
You do realize if I really was trolling (I’m not, btw… I thought using that word would be humorous, and hte multiple posts were often because I remembered to say something in addition or correct errors I made, and I can’t edit my posts) that i could just make another alias, right?
Whether you are a troll is not for you to decide, that’s about how other people see you. If you start changing nicks to get around this primitive filter, you will just confirm your troll status. There are still people willing to discuss with you, so don’t force your comments on the rest. Blocking anyone has to be conscious decision, and must be repeated on every comic page by a user that is annoyed enough by your comments. And the posts don’t disapper, header and option to show the whole comment is still there. That’s pretty tame filter in my opinion.
For this page, if feels like half of the comments are yours, and most just reiterate what you already said. That stopped being constructive long ago.
I actually first thought about this kind of filter few pages back, when Oberon was spamming with his MarySuemixa. He stopped up on the very next page when DaveB proved him wrong with a twist that very few people saw coming (if anyone, don’t exactly remember, but most of the people considered Vehemence to be done for), and yet was logical in hindsight and in given setting. Think about it. I hope that resolution of this fight will satisfy you in the end. It would be courteous of you to wait until there actually IS a resolution, before essentially calling DaveB incompetent writer. He has proven the opposite many times.
Didn’t call DaveB an incompetent writer. Just don’t like how Vehemence is written. Not commenting on it anymore ok? Thanks.
Trolling about Maxima being a Mary Sue? I thought I laid out my rationale for that in a clear and logical manner, and without recourse to personal insults. That usually isn’t called trolling, just simple criticism.
And no, the very next page did nothing to change my mind on the matter. As I have already explained, we know from the “real time” portion of the comic that Maxima is alive and well, not even showing any permanent injury to her nose. So the upshot is that even though we haven’t seen the rest of this fight, it either didn’t (doesn’t? tenses become screwed up when time travel or flashbacks are involved) hurt her much or she recovered fully from whatever other injury she might sustain for the rest of the fight. Which amounts to the exact same thing: No permanent consequences for our golden girl MarySuemixa.
It’s just like the motto of the Seinfeld show, “No hugging, no learning,” or as it has also been stated, “the show about nothing.” I’d rather not see this comic become “the comic about nothing,” and if voicing my criticisms has any effect on that, I’m happy to keep criticizing. There is still time for things to develop in a way which does involve some actual consequences, so I’ll keep hoping.
And yet again, if the comments section is only intended to be a “tell me how great I am here” section, wouldn’t that be just a little bit pathetic?
Technical note, I said spamming, not trolling. I agree that they were polite and there was some quality arguments in your posts, but too much beating on a dead horse. And it seems I owe you an apology. Based on the various definitions of Mary Sue I read, I thought it was closed case that Max is NOT her, and your lack of new posts to mean that you acknowledged it too. Sorry.
I don’t really have issue with anyone trying to put whatever sticker on Maxima. I didn’t hear the term before, and after reading it here in comments and reading what it’s about, it seems to be so watered down to be basically meaningless. What I disliked about your posts was the amount, and most of all the alias you have given her. Feels like what children usually do. Intentionally mangling names to move any argument from logical to emotional level. It’s basic courtesy to at least get the name right, making up weird nicknames serves nothing good. I can get over “Sidney” from first time posters, but intentionally doing it wrong over and over…
Anyway, you have stopped with that (both the alias and exceedingly high number of posts) and I no longer have any issue with your comments. Now that I think about it, you and Pander both seem to have a problem with the direction where the comic is heading. The trouble is that you have opposite views of where it is heading, or what outcome you would like. You think Maxima has it too easy, to the point of being Mary Sue. Pander thinks Max has it too hard and should have been able to take down Vehemence by brute force (at the point of blown-off arm at most, but the sooner the better), to maintain her status as most powerfull super in this world, because physically strong super females are so rare in comics. I am probably completely wrong again, that’s the impression I got from all the comments. If there was some other point from either of you, it has been lost in the numbers. You can’t both have your way, and I still hope Dave will just find some middle ground that will suprise and satisfy everyone.
My main point still stands: let’s wait for the fight to actually end before complaining about the ending and how any of the characters behave/d during it, or had it too easy/hard. Ending that none of us know at this point, all we know is that very few people can guess Dave’s twists before they happen. If nothing else, it’s probably scripted already and unlikely to change in significant way, too much things in the future would have to be rewritten. Just a minor observation, if page #4 provides you with enough evidence that she is Mary Sue, doesn’t that mean that you are asking Dave for a retcon? Which is also considered to be poor writer’s device, much poorer than MS in my opinion (can retcon from flashback to present that happened in the past be even called retcon? Futurecon? I agree that tenses are bit confusing here).
No need to correct me or explain your definition of Mary Sue or what is even wrong with being one in the first place, I don’t really care. I like the story so far, even the pacing is OK when reading archive. This thread started with request to be able to hide posts made by certain people, Pander took it as personal attack and it all went downhill from there. There is more than enough offtopic posts here already (this one included). Few dozen comments about what you don’t like about current page or direction is fine, lots of people do it, that’s why the comment section is there in the first place. But at several hundreds all saying the same thing, you are pushing on being reasonable. Only my opinion, I’m not trying to police anyone’s comments, you are free to produce thousands of them on each page, just accept that other people are free to hide and ignore them, and we can all get along. I only tried to provide a tool. Sorry I have dragged your name into this.
Pseudoedit: no, you didn’t stop with MarySuemixa, I just read your post too fast and mentally skipped over it the first time. Too bad. Hope you will.
WordPress might have a flat out IP ban, but nothing that would minimize a poster, at least not built in. Auto collapsed comments would be handy though I agree.
Honestly, no one has to bother. I’m not bothering to post anymore about this. Tired of being called a troll and militant feminist.
Given his last line about knowing just where he can find enough vehmic energy to kill Maxima, I think he’s overloading the unconscious people with vehmic energy, which he is hoping will drive them into a berserker rage, but will at least get them up.
The reason that he’s doing this is that when they start fighting again they’ll feed him enough power (particularly if they are going berserk from the vehmic energy) to break through Maxima’s invulnerability and kill her.
I think Vehemance may have finally slipped up though. This is a massive outlay of energy, and it’ll only be replenished if everyone starts fighting again. If the rest of archon can deal with the revived foes wiithout a big fight he might well be weakened, allowing Maxima to get away.
Maybe throw Deathtoll at him.
Looks like V. woke them up to keep the fight going (and to get some more V. Juice) … lets see if the baddies can resist beating ARC Swat up and / or keep their nose out of that fight between Max & V…
And now I hope Sydney can get over her “Prudeness” and invite them all to that orgy to power up Dabbler…. We need to see that Purple Battleform in action ;)
I’m going to toss this out there. I think V is breaking some major magic rules and will be pulled into the demonic world for punishment on the misuse of vehemic spellcasting.
I called it! EXTREME DIPLOMACY! Seriously, go back a page or two. I totally called it!
Yeah, I called that too. Vehemence’s best option is to join Archon. It’s better than winning, losing, or running away. Consider the outcomes, and you’ll agree.
I don’t see how there would be any chance in hell at this point that he’d be allowed into Archon, unlike if he had surrendered at any time before the arm being blown off.
Simple. Both dabbler and Halo are on the team because they got in a fight with a team member. That’s how they qualified. Spin it so Vehemence brought a whole of super villains to get arrested before they made any schemes, and had the battle count as an entry exam, and you can sell it to the public. Don’t forget about the whole first super battle ever angle. Finally, I would want him to join, he’d be a great asset. Dabbler said guys like him can win wars, remember? He just needs a sales pitch.
1) Halo is not on the team for getting in a fight with a team member.
2) Dabbler has not been shown to be on the team for getting in a fight with a team member, though she HAS been in a fight with Maxima, and has gotten a draw.
3) Neither of them has tried to kill Maxima, and neither of them have been shown to be sociopathic evil monsters, unlike Vehemence.
He wants violence, nothing more, nothing less. He outright states that he doesn’t want to kill anyone on the last page. and if he’s getting his violence from fighting with team, he’s not stirring up trouble for them. I’m not saying he’s hero material. I’m saying the team knows how to manipulate him to get him to want to play along. As long as he’s getting his fix, he won’t cause trouble, and they can study his powers. Trust? no. Use? yes.
He also lies in every other sentence.
And they asked him about if this was a misguided attempt to join Archon in the beginning, and he said no. He had his chance. Multiple times. Even with Sydney, they said ‘if she turns out to be a sociopath, we obviously won’t accept her’.
Well, V -is- a sociopath. Sociopaths who are willing to kill and engage in violence for the sake of violence? Who joke about causing regional wars? (and yeah, I don’t believe him that he wouldnt – that’s a GREAT source of violence compared to a soccer riot). They need to be put down.
Also, Pander, not to be super picky or anything, but he did say it wasn’t a “misguided” attempt to join Archon. Maybe it’s secretly not misguided.
He’s a lot like a drug addict, actually. His drug is violence, and it’s also his leash.
Well, there aren’t a lot of options here. Let’s go down the list.
1. kill him. you support this. It would be a good, unconventional finish, but Dave probably won’t do this for the same reason Batman can’t get rid of The Joker: he’s too good a villain.
2. cripple him. ineffective, he can regenerate.
3. he escapes. good for him, bad for the team. he’ll show up at almost every fight to come to soak in the violence, even if he stays in hiding.
4. they arrest him. possible. How are they supposed to hold him? If he attacked the wall of his cell, he could charge himself up enough to escape, since it has been stated that if he attacks, he gets stronger. Any prison strong enough to hold him would be exorbitantly expensive. And he will escape eventually, it’s a fact of the superhero life.
5. they recruit him. possible. This has several pros and cons. the big pros are that he’ll be on Archon’s side in any future fights, and any trouble he causes in the meantime will be easier to mitigate. the big cons are he’ll abuse the position, and he’s possibly sociopathic.
If you can think of a different outcome, please list it.
This is a game theory box. It’s not about how welcome he’ll be at Archon, not at first. It’s about which possible outcome will be the best for everyone involved. joining is a positive outcome for both sides, something none of the other have.
Also, he’s not planning any large scale violence. Quote, “Actually colonel, I’m not planning on doing any of that. It’s just the sort of thing a guy like me is supposed to say.” “war is unruly, I enjoy a good scrap is all.” And that sports riot he’s planning on eating is probably going to happen whether he’s there or not.
Halo joined the team because of the orbs- she never actually fought any of the team before she was recruited.
Plus, there’s a basic problem with recruiting Vehemence: his personality. they were unsure at first about Halo because she can be impulsive. Vehemence would be GUARANTEED to abuse his position.
Actually, she kicked Mr. Amorphous’ ass during the faux bank robbery. Without using her orbs, I might add, just a judicious amount of tongue fu.
Which is a point in case that she didn’t intentionally fight the good guys.
I’m sticking with my theory that Vehemence is just the team’s new trainer, hired by the general, and that this was one giant test.
If that turns out to be the case, can I be one of the army of lawyers that’s going to finally have a successful civil suit against the US government?
How extinction-level plot twist would it be if, after all that drama, Harem and Sydney just slapped closed the cuffs and knocked them out again?
Well, maybe not the teleporter, but you get the idea.
That’s still violence. And probably won’t happen.
Sigh. Going to give my take on how to make this whole thing not suck, let Maxima regain her rep, have Sydney help out, counter Vehemence’s do anything power and make him no longer a CURRENT threat, while still letting him get away to be a recurring character until the next time he shows up when Maxima can just blow his head off in the first second so we don’t have to see this again.
Vehemence tries to use his electricity to kill Maxima.
Sydney puts her lighthook around his eyes so he can’t see again, or Dabbler shoots with the railgun, but by this point, Vehemence is too powerful for even that to work, but it does give Maxima enough room to back away a LITTLE, which causes Vehemence to decide to finally end this and punch Maxima’s head off since now he’s powerful enough to do that…. at which point Sydney grabs Death Toll with the lighthook and flings him over to Maxima.
Maxima grabs Death Toll and puts him in the path of Vehemence’s fist. When Vehemence strikes Death Toll, his Nemesis power kicks in and most of his vehemic energy is sucked out of him.
Vehemence stumbles away from Maxima and realizes he’s lost the massive edge he had and isnt so cocky anymore, but grabs Opal, and says he still has enough power to kill her to her unless she teleports them both away, which Opal does.
So Opal and Vehemence get away (and Opal probably is killed right afterwards so she can’t lead ARCHON to him right away), and Maxima and the rest of ARCHON mop up the villains again quickly.
That way, Maxima manages to beat Vehemence, Sydney helped, Vehemence loses his godpowers and won’t get it again because next time Maxima WILL just kill him right away, and the good guys win.
At least that’s my guess, if there’s not going to be a d-e-m.
Meh, depends on what death toll does when he’s used. Vehemence said he didn’t want to kill anyone except Maxima, so Vehemence would probably at least slow down his punch. Death Toll can then let V hit him so that V gets more powerful and Death Toll isn’t aiding the good guys
Actually, doesn’t Death Toll still have those googly eyes on his mask?
Now I’m picturing this plan being attempted, D.T. being shoved in Vehemence’s face, googly-eyed angry muppet-face and all, and Vehemence cracking up laughing, losing most of his charge, and running away because he’s too low powered to survive staying.
You can’t throw Death Toll with powers, that’s an attack and he’d get all nemesis on it.
If the portal lady still there, Opal if I’m not mistaken…They’re gone!!!
Can someone tell me what is going on in panel 3?
It looks like V’s power wave is washing over the sleeping perps, at ground level. Nothing to do with Harem, even though it appears to be next to her tranquilizer gun.
Oh that’s a tranq gun? When I first saw the panel it looked like she was holding a noisy cricket that was shooting flame.
that electricity wave fizzled out everything nearby and jolted people awake.
[“There’s nothing you can do about it” Detected]
[Initiating Countdown to Ironic Comeuppance]
[Deus Ex In-Yo-Face in: 10]
[9]
[8]
Seriously looking forward to how this will be resolved. The suspense is killing me! (figuratively speaking)
I think I know how this is going to end. I’m pretty sure he can’t keep this up 24/7.
Was that a One Punch Man reference?
Dragon level, asteroids and alien invasion?
C’mon, V can’t get hyper if he gets one shoted by a normal punch combo.
Yeah, a little oblique admittedly. :)
More people should read One Punch Man.
Keep the good work going man, also, your art is improving!
I don’t know why you all are complaining so much about this, it’s pretty rare to show a good heroine actually in a good fight. I’m interested in how this plays out.
‘good fight’ being the operative words
Pander, you can stop hating on the comic now. We get it.
Already stopped.
She said they’re more powerful than other supers at the end of the interview. Trope activation time delay ended. Trope activated. Temporary ass kick will occur.
Who’s pissed off? I’m not.
I WANT Maxima to lose just to show she isn’t an all-powerful, unbeatable, never wrong Mary Sue.
The fact this guy is friends with, let alone respects, the writer of Gynostar makes me suspect she is.
That’s the way I see it too. Max needs to learn that power isn’t everything unless you happen to be the one who has *all* of it. Her arrogant display during the press conference did serve a positive purpose, in that it drew out a *lot* of villains away from the public & towards ARCSwat…But by putting the proverbial bullseye on herself & ARCSwat, Max also was playing with the odds that somebody, somewhere can actually command more power than she does & respond to her challenge.
As Max even pointed out during the press demo, no matter how strong you *think* you are, there’s always going to be somebody stronger than you…And Max put herself on the wrong side of that discovery when Vehemence showed up. Max really didn’t “practice what she preached” & has to learn the lesson the hard way. If anything, she may become a bit more humble & less arrogant in the future.
Grrr why do replies never work? It just makes a new comment.
I see two things happening next page.
FWTBT has a Perfect Counter for V’s violence aura push, and things start to happen.
Halo’s shield will stop teleportation, air and light based atttaks. it wont be useful for suffocating V, (at least not without a scuba tank or in the time they have) but it ight block his ability to absorb vehimic energy from the renewed battle.
Does anyone else think the ZippyDippyWiggle reads like a sound effect for modern pornos?
All I can think of is the quote from Blazing Saddles “Scuse me while I whip this out…”
On topic though: Dabbler also just got a boost if it was a non specific pulse. And she could turn on the juice against the gathered enemies now and have plausible deniability (“He did it!”) later, including the Wob (Block’s V’s attack) and Opal (Opens gate to uncharted island) and Vektor (rips ground around V up and tosses both through gate). On said desert island, Max and V duke it out for a few hours until V depowers enough for Max to wave Buhl-bye and fly off. She then issues a quarantine of the island for health reasons and arranges to drop off care packages monthly via Harem express.
Actually it’s based loosely on something Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation said.
I wouldn’t say Vehemence is overly powered at all honestly. It’s been stated a bunch of times that he’s not normally this strong at all. Yes he is pretty high in the strength scale, but situations like super hero group brawls are so rare that as he put it, it is “Vehemetic Christmas” *or however it’s spelled* .
So normally, I’m positive Maxima could easily take him out normally. Heck, he even said she would have beaten him if she just fought him seriously from the start. And the throw into space move would have worked, and so on and so forth..
What I believe this fight is for is for a set up for the future of the team. Sydney will save the day with some super hero logic helping the team win and cementing her position within the group to some degree. Maxima gets a dose of humility, seeing there are still potential *on her level* threats out there, as opposed to a just one guy who should be dead and Dabbler. The super hero organization rethinks their opperation a bit seeing how many super villains there might be out there in the shadows. And just many more things that will probably come because of this fight.
So yeah, Vehemence is insanely powerful right now. But it’s explained why, it’s set up properly, and it most definintely serves a purpose. I have nothing but faith in DaveB that this will come together near the end. And also for the “It’s so loooong” people. Read this comic again. Sure in real time with updates only onc or twice a week it does seem insanely long. But Dave is right. In terms of a comic this is barely a couple issues, which most comic fights when serious take this many pages.
You need to understand the limits of your medium. If he wanted to do that, he should have published a comic book. Yes, if you go back without the updates, it’s not that long, but the readers he needs to please instead of put to sleep are reading this on a bi-weekly basis. The new readers are fine, but don’t kill off your faithful for their sake.
Then stop reading for a few weeks. This is the perfect time of year for it. Just come back in January and pick up where you left off. The big fight will be over and you can get to the aftermath where the suspense won’t drive you mad.
This is actually the second time I came across this comic, but the first time didn’t have enough pages to draw me in enough to wait on a twice weekly update schedule. Now it has and I am patient enough to wait for the outcome as the DM wills it.
Actually, through Patreon, Dave will be putting this comic in printed-book format. That’s was this pacing is for, even though it doesn’t seem to come out right for a 2-pages per week format. Rome wasn’t built in a day & Dave’s just now trying to establish a background for a whole *world* here.
Patience, Grasshopper.
:P
Not one to focus on a single option (FADHD) he could be distracted by the mayhem starting around him into thinking she is drained to kitten strength. The Max switches to full blast power and gives him a glowing “pill” of energy to swallow –and then starts counting down. V staggers up and kicks all his spells into defense mode (he saw the demonstration) while sucking up any available power –which in my mind requires the targets to SEE HIM. I think that is why Sydney is facing AWAY –he is a Medusa type (no eye contact on him, no effect for the drain)
Whoops meant to point out that when he goes to full drain for defense HE KNOCKS out all the remaining combatants.
Web comic or regular comic, doesn’t matter. This one fight has gone on for the equivilant of two regular comic books, that is one comic book too many.
Although regular comics commit the same sin, but they do it delibrately to stretch out stories and (theoretically) increase sales. Of course the actual effect is to bore readers who give up and stop reading.
I’m honestly giving this about three more pages. This exact thing happened in LFG, and I never went back. I have been waiting for this fight to end since it began, but I knew some people enjoy in depth fight scenes, so I kept quiet. Dave, you keep talking about the limits of your format, yet you continue doing things that are for a different one. I know I’m not the only one that showed up since page 3 came out to see all the interesting character interaction that was packed into the first 200 pages. Right now it feels like nothing REAL has happened in about a month. Ever since the Brick broke through the wall, the highlight has been Sydney’s development through combat, which has been downplayed for the most part. It’s very hard to drumb up excitement when you have two to three days between pages. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me,’but right now I can’t see a satisfying end to this. I don’t hate V, so I don’t really want this grand cumupance. I don’t want him to join the team, because he’s only been a problem thus far, and would be a loose canon of terrifying proportions. Really, I think the only real way out of this would be for him to run, which would make the entire month worth of fighting have been pointless except to have made bad guy seem big and tough, the heroes to seem flimsy, and to feed the Superman fans that like pointless fights.
The last time I felt the comic was really amusing was Issue 258; I was officially waiting for the fight to just bloody end by Issue 264.
The problem now is that I can no longer see a way for this fight to end without some really heavy-handed deus-ex-machina; There is literally no one and no thing that can beat V, since he can (and has, according to WoG) develop powers on the fly. Why would we assume that he can’t come up with whatever power he needs exactly when he needs it?
V leaves completely on his own terms? That means the heroes just got a major drubbing in their first major conflict and, even if Max survives (which she has to, unless we’re assuming V can also rewrite the future), ArcSWAT will be decades living down this debacle.
Guys, I’m also frustrated with how the fight with V is turning out, but there’s a bigger picture :) This is a creative work in the process of being created (and we’re at a frustrating point where one cliffhanger’s resolution leads to another one), so I don’t think we can really judge whether the encounter with V added to or subtracted from the comic as a whole. Once the fight is resolved, things will be much clearer, so let’s keep our panties on till then :)
That said, one thing that worries me is that even if ARCHON ends up winning the day with Maxima at the helm (as opposed to Maxima licking her wounds after playing right into V’s trap), V will have still dealt a severe blow to the team. The whole point of Max’s demonstration was “power with a side of power”, but V showed that ARCHON can bleed – and if you can make Gods bleed, then people cease to believe in them. So, all in all, even if V ends up in chains, I’m afraid that this day will have very negative long-term repercussions for the team… Let’s see…
It stopped being JUST a creative work when he started making it his full time job. He’s going to lose Patrons if he doesn’t end this soon. Which, when you have a Patreon as your primary income, your Patrons are your boss, and it has become your job. Lots of us have stopped CARING about long term reproductions and are considering going to read something more interesting.
The fact that this is a full-time job for DaveB does not contradict the fact that grrlpower is a creative work.
At any rate, my point is that it is an *unfinished* creative work, so I’m just advocating patience. Of course, your patience may vary (as I said, I’m also frustrated with this fight and want to get back to what made grrlpower so fresh in the webcomic world), I’m just trying to keep the big picture in mind.
That’s fine. Just don’t expect me to pay for it if I’m unsatisfied. Fortunately, DaveB appears to have enough fans who are loving this storyline that he doesn’t need to worry about my support.
Actually, some of the luckiest people in the world are those who can turn something that they love to do into a means of earning their source of living by doing it. Dave is just now hovering on that cusp of being able to make a living with his creativity.
I agree with your advocation of patience! +1 internet to you, good sir!
*Cue to Dabbler going full on hormone overkill. Vehemence is a regular guy aside being a power sponge. How unfortuante – inflating his physique in this way. The bloodflow into his nether-regions will leave his brain all DUH.
Yeah, I know. Stupid idea. I stole it from Tankgirl. Remember the guy with the whale-sized genitals and what happened to him after Tankgirl lifted her shirt.
I think it says something about this fight when my immediate reaction was that a Tankgirl reference would actually make it more interesting.
My reaction is that V has lost controland is close to critical mass, that lightning is his power bleeding out waking the others which he hasn’t appeared to have noticed.
If i’m anywhere we should see him notice and become worried because he’s not in control so maybe he panics or is thrown into the sky and presumed killed whilst Opal escapes in the confusion taking whoever she can.
This way the fight Maxima assumes another major foe is dead(No V survives) and we get our ending to lead to the next chapter… what do you think?
He said watch this right before the wave and that was right after he talked about having an idea to get more power.
You could have at least made it look he was a weakening from doing that AOE-spell-thing :p
Just a little, maybe something like his arm turning back to normal.
That’d be a big thing but changing the colour of his glow maybe?
I must say, I’m thoroughly enjoying this strip. I think it’s the best one out there. The story is good, the characters feel real, and the art is more than adequate.
Don’t let the whiners distract you. Some people just have to complain.
Am I missing something or is Max faking him into shocking them all awake deliberately?
I think you’re missing something. V still can’t hurt Maxima, despite thinking that his lightning attack has weakened her, so he decided to wake up all the unconscious people in order to generate some more violence for him to absorb in the hopes that it’ll give him the power boost he needs to kill Maxima.
Honestly, I think Opal is the best chance for dealing with Vehemence. If Sydney tells Opal that violence powers him up, she can just teleport the villains away, just like she planned originally. Cooperate and get a lighter sentence sort of thing.
Also, she’s more than capable of teleporting him (via portal beneath his feet and letting Gravity do the work) to someplace deadly but not violent, so that he’ll have to cool down and expend most of his power to survive and escape. There’s a lake in Russia where the Soviets dumped radioactive leftovers that’s lethal within a hundred meters or so. Also a spot in the Pacific that’s over a thousand miles from any land mass. I bet Vehemence being as bulked out as he is with an armored arm would tend to sink.
If *I* had the ability to teleport people and needed to play “I have a little list, they never will be missed,” then you can be damned sure I would figure out places to kill people and dispose bodies. Opal ought to be at least that clever.
That resets things, and forces Vehemence to get clever. If he gets out in the open, Maxima will one shot him (Or Dabbler with her railgun, or Peggy with an anti-tank gun), so he’ll need to be more subtle. And any riots and such will be closely monitored just in case he shows up. Plus he blew his contacts for this fight, so that will be another disadvantage for him.
We have a picture of the “future” with Maxima and Anvil and Halo. But we don’t know enough of how we get there from here. That’s why I’m interested and invested. We don’t need “spunkgargleweewee” as Yahtzee would say about Triple-A Gaming. We have plenty of pieces on the table and interesting motivations. So, let’s see what happens.
Was that a paranoia reference in that penultimate panel there?
…heh. Penultimate Panel Paranoia. Alliteration.
The Vehemence Glove; it’s so badass.
And then Deus pulls a Deus ex Deus and brings one of his new weapons, OHKO’s Vehemence, and gives ARCHON the sales pitch. Then everybody lives happily ever after the end. Then Vehemence’s ka-pants de-ka-pants and Dabbler has a happily ever after the end.
I think, that at this point most logical solution would be for Halo to enclose vehemence in the shield ant fly him to the ocean, or wait until he suffocates.
Atlantis tours- opening soon! ™
Reeeeeeeeally? Please.
*grabs a chair and a mug of coffee*
The suffocation bit. Explain. ^^
He obviously doesnt know this has been discussed to death and word of godded that it would not work
Or it can just as easily be trolling. Regardless.
*sips coffee*
We know it won’t work anyways,but still must determine precise use of shield.
Before this current fight happened with this particular opponent, I would have felt a lot more strongly against some method of letting Sydney put her shield around others as it would have been OP and any fight against a single opponent would just be solved by her doing that (although a counter is to have a team of more than one person against her and while she’s concentrating on keeping the first person contained, the second person attacks her, which makes her lose concentration or lose hold of the orb or something).
I’m starting to wonder where Vehemence got his powers… and if whatever gave him his powers is (has been) using him for its own assorted goals?
Previous foreshadowing leads us to ask that about nearly every superpoweed individual. The origin of superpowers is not understood even in universe, and Peggy at least entertains the idea that it’s not all kosher.
Vehemence is the kind of threat you teleport to Luna in hopes he can’t survive or jump back to Earth. He could certainly move by jumping the way Superman initially did and the Hulk.
He is over a 10 he is definitely in the Omega Range of lethality of power unless he can over load if he gets to the point he has never been before. I would not like to be there when he explodes with the force of X number of hydrogen bombs should he suddenly pass his red limit.
OK let’s take a step back here.
I know that Sydney has mentioned that she thinks her meds are wearing off. However she’s still trying to help Max break out of V’s grip. Also, I suspect within a page or two if not sooner she may reach for her PPO and I’m certain IT has the power to blow V’s head off.
V has at least twice within the last updated said that Max has to die.
Even with Sydney having trouble concentrating I think that fact and statement is filtering through to her. And I think she’s going to realize (even though she doesn’t want to) That taking his head off might be the only way to defeat V now. And I think she might do it too. Although it’s possible I’m wrong.
As for V’s energy wave. I and my brother think it might be a variation of and EMP blast. And yes, that he is embuing it as well with his Vehemic power in such a way that those Villains who have been unconcious are waking up with ‘death’ in their eyes and little desire but to fight. I’m nearly certain I spelled those words correctly.
Lack of Concentration with a weapon of unknown capacity … she could end up hitting V and having him go flying like a rag doll. With a side effect of levelling the building (whats left of it) in the process. I don’t think she’d be comfortable with handling the orb for a long time after that. Power like that is terrifying to have. She’s never truly seen how destructive Her Power can be. Just how strong the defensive natures of it are.
Or she could straight up level the block regardless of whether she vapes him or not. This assumes she will even be given enough time to fire the PPO at all.