Grrl Power #262 – No two ways about it, that’s an impressive punch
Maxima’s nose is probably in pretty dire shape about now.
I know some people were thinking this fight was disappointingly one sided, some thought it was cool she was kicking butt, and others were waiting for it to turn around. This page is obviously going to please one of those groups more than others. I definitely could have gone the direction of establishing Maxima as the big bad to cap the fight, and originally I had a scene like that in my head, not necessarily in the comic, but way before I was turning all my daydreams about these characters into a coherent story, but I have something a little more robust planned now, I think you guys will enjoy it.
Seriously you guys drawing rubble is so tedious. This page should have had way more as the top of the pylon shattered… really watching Mythbusters has shown me how dusty non-Hollywood fireball explosions are, so really the last panel should just be a big dust cloud with Vehemence’s fist and Maxima in silhouette, so I’ll just claim artistic license for leaving it as clean as it is. :) I have new respect for any artist that’s had to draw lots of rubble though, especially those debris strewn mangas. Granted most mangas have dedicated background people, I imagine that guy gets to do most of the scritchy rubble detail. I’ll be glad when this fight is over, but as you can tell, we’re not quite there yet.
In other random superhero news, the latest Wearing the Cape book is out, which has always been one of my favorite superhero novel series. It’s called Small Town Heroes. I’m not reading it yet as I just started another book but it’s definitely next in my queue.
Here’s the link to the new comments highlighter for chrome which I can’t live without anymore, and the GitHub link which you can use to install on FireFox via Greasemonkey.
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I wonder what her stats look like now.
Probably quite a bit in strength, some flight and a bit less in armor than she would have liked…
Judging by the markings’ colour change and glow in previous panels, as well as the turnaround, I’m guessing Vehemence has some kind of energy absorption or berserking ability.
Given his name it looks like some berserking ability. Perhaps he gets stronger the more he gets hurt.
I’m leaning towards energy absorbtion, sorta like solar panels for metahuman radiation. It fits with his glyphs being far more muted at the start of the ‘grand royale’ free for all, and his throwing a wrench into the ‘bad guys’ bug out plans. Can’t let a good portion of his power pool be ‘ported away before he faces Max. And he’s not a ‘dumb brick’, given he could identify both the type of energy Dabbler was using against him, and how far she would have to ramp it up to be effective.
So thinking Max might have just found the third meta on her level.
ROUND 2- FIGHT!
Well i was definitely in the waiting for Vehemence to turn it around so ready for his turn but seriously he has got to be hurting after all that but hey im sure he is having a blast lol
Lucky for Max that pylon was in the way of Vehemence’s fist.
More like Unlucky for Max, since punching up the pylon was how Vehemence managed to reach her. Assuming that he can’t fly or has some other movement power. Maybe he can tunnel, for all we know.
The final punch through the pylon used up a lot of his force so Max was not hit as hard as if the pylon wasn’t in the way.
max was probably diverting power to attack, if she had seen it coming she would have diverted towards defenses instead. And it was blocking the view
(sigh) Not going to be over anytime soon, is it? This big rumble has been fun, it really has, but I was kind of hoping we’d be on to something different before the new year.
… you sir…are clearly -not- a DBZ fan >.>
Yeah, if this was DBZ, we’d still be at the “Talking Smack and Powering Up” stage, hardly having thrown a couple punches.
What, no flashbacks or cutting to other people watching the confrontation and talking about how scary the badguy is?
Depends on which stage of the battle. I think we might be due for a contemplative cutaway, maybe to another villain observing the battle.
I have to admit that, as scary as his creepy smile made him before, he’s getting scarier by the minute even without that smile…
This isn’t even my final form!
True, it was not to my taste. I’ve found very little anime that is. But to each their own.
You say “not a DBZ fan” like it’s a bad thing.
How is not liking DBZ right now or having liked it in the past -not- a bad thing? Its and interesting story based on the classic Asian idea of “If I just try hard enough nothing can stop me” it draws out fights to the point where you either snap like a dry twig or reach a Zen like state where the week you have to wait for the next episode passes in a blur of shadows and half heard echo’s. It teaches us about courage, persistence, how nice guys can also be totally powerful and awesome, how even a terrible enemy can be redeemed and become a good friend and most importantly … that short bald guys can get the hottest girl. xD
Well… Kinda same here. Hoped that we could go back to the story. ^^’
And within 2 pages of the story: “When are we going to have another fight? This is boring! Let’s have some action!!”
Usually, it’s not the same personn who say that, you know ?
Maybe, OTOH, it does go to show that DaveB is probably not going to please everyone all of the time.
Didn’t say it was, just saying that DaveB could learn something from Aesop and a tale concerning a donkey
I kinda blame Hollywood for fostering that attitude on the public; kids today got no patience, it’s gotta be NOW, NOW, NOW! Never mind the fact that in order to accomplish anything, there has to a time factor for action to turn into results.
Rome wasn’t built in a day, ya’ know…
Cool page DaveB. But wouldn’t Maxi feel him punching his way up through the pylon?
A book I’d like to recommend to you, if you haven’t checked it out already, is “Please Don’t Tell My Parents I’m a Supervillian” by Richard Roberts. Kind of a Young Adult type, but a really fun read. I just finished it :D
I believe that was the triple BOOMs she felt, and instead of backing up she was taken aback, letting Vehemence tag her back on her already broken nose.
Lets see: “Just like grinding pepper”, which means she’s bearing down and crushing the column into him, it’s shattering as this happens, followed by “BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, SMASH”, which is him punching thru the column and hitting her… Looks to me like she felt something but had no time to react, as she was literally leaning into the blow.
Yeah, I’ve read PDTMPIAS, it’s pretty good.
Seriously needs a sequel. Or a trilogy. Or an ongoing series!
…or a nice webcomic drawn by a friendly, neighborhood superhero geek? :D
She was already grinding it and he was resisting, so it would be jittering enough it wouldn’t necessarily be totally clear what was going on.
FYI we are 100 points out of 2nd at this time.
I managed to get very slightly ahead this week so hopefully I’ll actually have an update to the picture by monday’s comic.
Assuming you are talking about TWC, and I just voted so we are now sitting at 39 votes above the number 3.
I get the feeling he took the beatin intentionally.
Do we have any info on how Maxima or supers in general heal? The Arc folks have that healer Doctor so I suppose they could make a “full” recovery, but considering their general toughness how do they heal or get medical care? Setting bones and operating on someone who’s skin cant be cut …how would all of that even work? Is there Lore on this at all?
A lot depends on the individual super, I suspect.
Not all supers are super-strong, super-tough, etc., so “normal” techniqies can get a look in there.
Seems very plausible that some other supers can switch off their defenses or otherwise power down, so that conventional healing techniques become usable for them.
In Max’s case, maybe her Power Pool has a Heal Me setting.
Or perhaps Max just puts ALL of her power into something else, weakening herself down to near normal (from when she “maxes out” something else), or at least close enough that they can do something to help set bones, provide sutures, etc. An example of this would be giving herself max-flight capability, yet choosing not to fly anywhere.
Based on how she commented on her broken nose, this isn’t the first broken bone she’s had, (or perhaps even her first broken nose), so a process must be in place somewhere.
Judging form Vs fist he’s pretty beat up himself. I guess this will just reinforce how powerfull V is so in the end when Maxi beats him it’ll look all the more impressive. That’s my take on it at least.
Oh yeah! I was hoping he’d get a second wind.
Poor Maxima! Her NOSE! A second shot to her nose!
Now the fight can go two ways: they bash each other for a while, and V rabbits having accomplished what he wanted or, at least, not wanting to get jailed, or Max finally **REALLY** has to uncork and takes V down. I’m betting on the second, because — as mentioned earlier — this IS their first big public outing, so they gotta do well on it.
But I don’t expect V to be dead. That would suck.
Well we know Maxima lives, because issue #4 has her, Sydney and Anvil in it and the rest of the comic has been a flashback more or less. Also i am thinking Sydney is going to be the one to whoop V’s but just for the big guns comment from Anvil in the same issue. Maybe gets to break out the PP or possibly unlocks / triggers one of the mystery orbs.
I wonder if Halo can draw that shield of hers around something other than herself.
If so we might soon see mr V getting a nice cyanosis.
I was wondering the same thing.
Or maybe she uses said force-field to encase both, Vehemence and Maxima, so that Maxima can use her particle beam ? It would be safer than Sydney using her PPO since she has less control and experience over her offensive capabilities than our golden super heroine.
Maybe it’s gonna be even simpler, like Sydney having tumbleweed growing around Vehemence his neck, strangling the laryx and simply choking him nicely blue.
Or why not have Sydney lift Vehemence around the waist high enough for Maxima to safely start firing away.
… but let’s not forget that there are two orbs with hither to unknown properties and the new ranked ability we don’t know either. Maybe it is time to lift a secret ?
Shield centered on Sydney (at least with her in it anyway).
Light Hook (tumbleweed) can’t hold V in a grapple and most likely isn’t quite strong enough to choke him though MAYBE it could if Maxima grappled him first. Or she could just keep shoving crap into his air holes after Maxima holds his arms (doubt she could keep THAT up long enough though).
The official answer is “no, not at the moment at least.” She could encircle him, but she’d be in there with him. Less than ideal.
Not at this point, but it might be a possibility as a power-up on the skill wheel.
I’m glad to see that Vehemence is setting up to be a recurring villain here. Every hero needs an antagonist that can really test their mettle. V looks to be a good antag for Max since he’s shaping up to be one of the *very few* with enough power to tweak Max’s nose now & again…He’s already tweaked it twice in his first combat-appearance!
That being said, maybe it’s time to officially set sail on the good ship V-Max. The way they’re going at it, you’d think they’re already married, or something…
:P
Ayup, and it is ON!
Let’s get ready to rubble! Lots of rubble. That’s super fights! Just like in the Incredibles.
There’s no school like the old school…
I KNEW IT! I knew he wouldn’t be defeated so damn easily, I’m getting major DBZ flashbacks from this fight.
Let us hope they do not change into their level 2 forms.
dbz flashbacks oh the horror, thats worse than trying to con a politician out of his money
It’s easier to con a politician out of *our* money…It’s what they do most anyway.
Shout out to Dragon Ball Z Abridged and Team Four Star!
This is actually more One Piece. There’s a LOT less wasted time in the combat area; smack-talking is limited to a few panels, not three episodes. And some of the powers are kinda weird.
YYYYES!!!!
Was waiting/hoping/praying for an awesome moment like this!
None of the above. Since this is all a flashback and we know that Maxima lives and doesn’t have any damage to her face showing, this fight has simply grown tedious beyond belief. I’m only waiting for it to end, and hoping that it is soon.
I mean really, you’ve already demonstrated that with her powers tuned for it that V can only do minor damage to Maxima with an unblocked “attack me with all your might” haymaker. And in your comments you alluded to the fact that she can even turn her armor up to the point where she can’t even move, which should make her immune to any damage at all from V. So what is the narrative value in a single surprise punch? What can it possibly accomplish other than to drag this out unnecessarily?
think of it from the perspective of superman and kryptonite we already know she switched out a lot of here power to strength is right now she probably doesn’t have any wear near the same toughness as the first hit she took from him she isnt nearly invulnerable all the time would makes here effectively post crisis superman material she has a mostly set power capability and she can be taken off guard so she wouldn’t always have her guard up like she probably doesn’t right now and its always when a major hero/heroin gets cocky that there at their weakest this being case in point
Damn, can you at least try to use interpunction?
Took me too long to figure out what you meant, and so you didn’t get your point accross… Sorry :(
Well, for one, it can show that powerful as maxima is… She is NOT the only powerplayer in the game as it where. And Vehemence is quite probably about to show us exactly this in the next few pages (probably to be taken down by teamwork in the end or have him pull an exit stage left).
What I think gets overlooked with maxima’s “so invulnerable she cant move” bit is… its not that she’s so invulnerable she cant BE moved, she needs the flight/strength to keep herself in place when made the subject of external forces. The armor just keeps her body from being deformed/damaged by said forces, but turning armor all the way up would just make her, essentially, like Achilles, invulnerable sure but not otherwise too special. (granted she can tune back into other things at will, but she also doesnt get Achilles blanket immunity to Anything that could hurt him, like mental attacks, poisons/radiation, certain magics that snuff souls or otherwise bypass physical resilience).
In short, maxima’s powerful, but like for whom death tolls she is Very much beatable if you know how her powers work and have a sydney-esque awareness of how to work around it. Or in V’s case, know how to take your licks and then pick your shots for maximum suprise-owch factor. (which really is max’s weak spot, getting caught with her armor and/or speed values too low to negate incomming attacks or otherwise unable to divert power to her own protection).
As for the whole “haymaker to the face did nothing” bit.. V just went through a meatgrinder of abuse, and yet he’s punching back with a level of strength that appears to be equal or quite possibly superior to said haymaker… So really, that First punch to Max’s face has only established that max Can be injured, not the upper limits of either of their ability to harm or be harmed by each other.
The flip side of that is, we don’t know V’s limits yet. He’s been pounded relentlessly and unable to retaliate, until now.
One thing puzzles me. All those people who were impatient for some kind of fight up until now, why aren’t they cheering this fight on? Unless they are now the ones tired of the fight, it makes no sense not to hear from them.
LOL, I wasn’t impatient, yet, but I’ll just assume I’m one of the ones you were talking about (cause its all about me! X-P XD ). Woke up later than you, possibly different time zone, did some wake-up chores, young dog/puppy proceeded to chew on my hands the whole time I was reading other peoples comments till now (I still have a lot left to go. I’mma slow reader…. [maybe I get more out of it that way though])… Its still kinda early in the commenting day and most of the “impatient” folk commented late last time round.
Anywho, not impatient yet but happy to see something happening. I like stories: I either want some conflict to develop in this fight or to get back to the interpersonal drama, intrigue, jokes and fun of the “slice of life” side of this comic. Not a prolonged curbstomping (again we weren’t quite to the “prolonged” level yet but I was worried… ) Overall “V” has been responsible for creating or amping up most of the things I thought were weak or missing from this fight. I salute him for that. :) If he also brings narrative conflict to Maxi and the team with a turnabout here then yes, that would continue to make my day! XD
So YAY for effective punchy!! May we see many more! ^0^
(happy? :-P LoL )
The fight between the rank and file Arc members and the rank and file villains was great. It had a lot going for it. It demonstrated the heroes powers for the readers, and also most of the villains. It had some nice humor, with “Super hairdresser” surrendering, the Hex vs. squirrel battle royale (:-P), and other nice bits.
What wasn’t so great was the knowledge that Maxima was only restraining herself from utterly destroying the rank and file villains because she “wanted to evaluate her team’s performance.” That’s like saying that the SWAT team will sit back and watch the regular cops exchange shots with the criminals because the police chief needs to know how cops can handle criminals in a stand up fight. You don’t win by playing fair and eating damage or casualties you don’t need to eat, you win by bringing overwhelming firepower against anyone foolish enough to challenge you, and then you can evaluate performance. Several heroes were wounded as a result of this stupidity, and Maxima simply can not have known that no members of her team wouldn’t have been killed as a result.
And this was accentuated by having Maxima absolutely destroy Bronze Chestplate Man when he was giving Hiro a hard time of it. It just reinforced the question: Why isn’t Maxima ending this? She obviously can, so why is she allowing her team to risk injury or death when she can clearly slap down a great many of the villains who have the capacity to harm her team mates? “It’s good training” is a fairly stupid answer to these questions.
We get it, Maxima outclasses her entire team… She is faster, stronger, tougher, and has better secondary powers. *Yawn* She also outclasses everyone on the villain side of things. *Yawn* Oh, except Vehemence has now managed to land a second blow, and one which Maxima didn’t just welcome. *Yawn* Wow, are we supposed to be excited and full of suspense? Why? We know that Maxima comes out of this alive and unharmed, since this is a flashback sequence. So what possible narrative value is there in stretching out this out any further? Answer: There is none.
i take it you dont really read dc comics or any super hero comics for that matter
if the mainline super hero was busy hitting all those weaker baddies whose gonna be watching out for really dangerous foes like the defensive guy or mr. v here. if she was busy with the tough one she wouldnt know the veriable power lvls of any of them to know how hard she can hit them to keep from KILLING THEM and on top of that she has to change up here ower lvls so shes VULNERABLE to people like mr. v here while shes trying not to kill the people she is currently fighting and if she came down to fight then mr would have came into the fight early leaving the entire team to fight the rest anyway thus they’d get hurt having to fight the others and no one to fight mr defense guy yes she may not have fought him but he could have gotten in the way of maximas fight and well then bad news everyone please if your gonna insult the genre or the story thus the author do it in a less obvious way or do it somewhere is or at least do research on these kinda battles
You’re obviously not on your period. :D
HEY!
Regardless of drakeye’s shocking lack of punctuation, you don’t get to insult him/her on the basis of gender orientation. Back up and try again.
i would hope not being a adult male and all.
*Yawn*.
people like you must have gone nuts in some DBZ episodes where they stare at each others for like 5 to 10 episodes i swear…
yup. then stopped watching altogether.
Knowing that the characters survive shouldn’t be enough to make you stop wanting to watch their journey.
Believe it or not some people are into supers/sci-fi/fantasy just to see crazy powers and overboard badass moments and could care less about details, emotions, character development… story… My best friend is such a being. TT
Actually, we DON’T know how much of V’s potential power was in that haymaker. We know that he expected it to be more effective than it was, but his reaction since would indicate that it was **NOT** nearly his top end, or he wouldn’t have been so cheerful about continuing the fight.
But we don’t know whether that haymaker was a for-show 1% punch (and he’s just used to even 0.01% taking people out, so 1% was still a real big hit from his point of view), or was a 50% punch.
Since the colors have changed on his markings from white to a yellowish tint, I would agree that he is hitting harder and has “powered up” a bit. This is a great way to help settle Max down into understanding that being near the top of the food chain for supers doesn’t mean you have to have an ego to take on the world. I think this narrative is a great way to see Max’s perspective change from being supremely cocky and risking more of her team than needs be (as she had done in the beginning of the fight) to becoming a a better leader in the future.
Exactly. “I assure you, we’re more powerful” is not the attitude to have if you actually haven’t found all your potential competition yet.
At this point, it’s even possible to see Vehemence’s entire PURPOSE as doing EXACTLY that. Giving her an object lesson that while he, personally, is only in it for the challenge and the fun, he can still HURT her, and if that’s so, she’d be EXTREMELY ill-advised to think that there aren’t any REAL villains out there who are her equal, or possibly even superior.
I’m not saying that IS his purpose, mind — he could be as nasty-black a villain as ever lived — but that his actions so far are not inconsistent with the idea.
During the press conference, Maxima mentioned being part of wartime affairs, combating enemy supers among other assets. During that time she was fought to a standstill maybe Once (I am assuming she did not meet and fight Dabbler during this time). So yeah, she does have some fair ground to stand on in terms of knowing she’s stronger/better at killing than more supers than most have had a chance to fight in circumstances like that.
Of course that doesnt mean she might have forgotten that if it has happened once, much less twice, it certainly can happen a third time.
Just because Maxi, Sydney and Anvil (and possibly Wart in the background) are there in page 4 does not mean they win, just that they survived
Um, with the way that Max’s powers work, even if it’s the same strength punch, just because she could take the punch before, when she was going hard on shielding, doesn’t mean she can do it now, when she almost certainly isn’t.
And what of her being around in the prologue? So her chances of surviving this are 100% instead of…99%–yeah, quite the difference in dramatic tension. And the fact that she still looks like herself just means that they were able to fix whatever he does to her–and with Dabbler’s tech, I’m sure they can fix quite a lot.
Ooo, a cyborg nose, not a good thing when eating out with Sydney :P
The good guys NEVER get to dominate outrageously over anyone who isn’t a faceless mook sent in by the main villain to tire them out first. This was inevitable! But that also means more epic ass-kicking on the way so I approve.
sigh, I was hoping the big fight was winding to a close…not that I’m against big fights taking huge number of panels to do…..but this is real early in the story for it….the societal and interaction stuff was a bit more interesting.
Personally I prefer the social stuff as well. I think the remainder of the fight will be entertaining but I will endeavor to wrap it up as soon as I can without making it feel rushed.
You saying that already makes it sound rushed :(
Um, have Dabbler lay the charm down on him, hard, and while he’s distracted launch him into low earth orbit?
Low orbit would still send you descending again.
Eventually, yes, but that’s a problem for future ARCSwat. :)
Take your time. I really want to see Maxima bloodied some more before we move on.
Need to reduce that “god” status a bit to avoid her falling to “superman syndrome”.(that is, being BORING as a character and ability-wise)
I have been enjoying it, but this is a bit more like the sort of action we’d get late into the story after each of these individual characters have been introduced in and of themselves.
kind of feels like you rushed lots of cameos in for the readers, which is awesome (and I wish I could afford the money to get one of my characters to cameo) but might have been better to string out the action.
I’m totally just blowing my opinion here. You’re far more successful than my own self-publishing efforts, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
Well yeah, it’s “early int the story.” Considering that the bulk of the comic so far actually happened *before* the first few pages, this is even “earlier” than the beginning…
:P
actually, that is part of the problem, there is little to no urgency to this fight since we know they come out of it.
We only know that 3 (maybe 4) make it out alive
Oddly enough, what I’m most looking forward to next time is how DaveB draws Maxima’s nose, or what’s left of it.
Make a play-doh nose. Then smash it. That would be my guess.
Here’s a hint as to V’s lasting impact on Maxima’s nose: None.
Thus the whole *yawn* factor involved due to an utter lack of suspense. Earlier the fight could be partially justified as giving the readers an overview on the powers of the Arc team. But now this flashback fight is approaching or has already passed “jumped the shark” levels of irrelevance.
You realize that permanent damage and damage are two different things, right? Not to mention that (1) Plastic surgery is a thing, and (2) Dave can always retcon it.
Plus, all 3 look different now to what they did then
Plastic surgery is a thing for people whose skin isn’t harder than steel. Maxima would blunt or break any scalpel used on her.
Magic or regeneration, etc., are a different matter. She could be VERY heavily mauled n this combat and as long as she survived it’d be taken care of somehow.
Maxima’s skin is not harder than steel, her power comes from that tk-field and some enhanced density of her mass, it makes her tougher yes.. but her body can apparently blush, bleed, bend and presumably jiggle, its not made of metal as has been stated by max herself (its not gold at the very least), if she tones her armor field down she’s about as invulnerable as harem or heatwave.
Naturally she is probably more armored than that currently, but if need be she can in all probability tone the armor down to let the doctors do their thing as needed.
I was hoping for a less one-sided fight, so good for V.
Dave, general note for drawing proper punches: if V has been trained then he will not line his thumb metacarpel parallel to his first two finger metacarpels – that’s a good way to jam a thumb. In a proper fist, the thumb is folded up well away from the striking surface and you see much less of the thumb than you do in this view. (Disagreement and arguing over martial arts techniques coming in 3… 2… 1…)
That being said, as tough as he is he might not need the best form to get results or avoid injuries.
That’s one thing I always learned for making a fist: wrap the fingers tight, then close the thumb around them. So no disagreement from me :-)
I’ve always had the best results keeping my fist loose until the very end. You get my snap out of your impact.
Buuuut in V’s case that probably wouldn’t help much. But what do I know, I’ve never punched through a concrete pillar after being buried by it. Lol
Always, always protect the thumb. No disagreement from me either :-)
(*checks back to page a sec* OH! yeah, you should pretty much not even be able to see his thumb. You gotta redraw that bit Dave :) Currently it looks like his fingers are curled around his thumb, which is a good way to break it.
Space Magic dude. No reason to assume Vehemance works like a normal person. His thumb doesn’t break for the same reason he is able to punch/tunnel through a pillar.
More evidence for the “V doesn’t know how to fight for real” theory.
Thanks for the support! I was basing my sarcastic comment on the fact that just about every other comment about martial technique has been picked to death in the comments, but in this case it is nice to be proved wrong.
Well, up until now, it might be safe to presume that V never really met someone of Max’s caliber before. He could probably expect to tear apart most people with his eyebrows, so learning proper punching technique was never high on his priority list.
But yeah, he could reach a whole new level of effectiveness if he bothered to take the time to *learn* proper martial arts. It would be difficult to find a sensai though, because combat maneuvers are designed to work with how the body moves most efficiently for its size, bulk & how the joints/limbs act as levers, and so on. Who in the world would be qualified to apply that kind of teaching to someone that friggin’ BIG?
I mean, really now, in Greek myth, Heracles killed his music teacher for criticizing how big his fingers were for playing a lute, ‘fer chrissake!
I love in panel 4 how Max has this “Huh? Not sure if serious” look on her face as V pinches up through the pylon.
Just gotta say it: Go, Vehemence!
I really do like that guy. Hope he doesn’t get killed tonight.
Funny enough, that’s what he was thinking about Sydney earlier…
;)
That’s the joke. DUCY?
Wohoo! go Vehemence!
This is certainly the kind of challenge Maxima needs, pulling her down from her pedestal and making her much more likeable, as well as giving the rest of the team an actual reason for being there when Max is around.
Vehemence’s skin color has changed from white to very dark red. That CAN’T be good.
Either he’s got lots of blood rushing to capillaries in his skin, or he’s going “hulk” on us.
I’m pretty sure from the hatching that he’s covered in scratches and scuffs from being ground down, and the general beatins.
It looks more like a case of full-body road rash to me.
Max really should have known that it would not have been that easy, especially when her grandstanding got her nose broken, and without Vehemence showing any physical indication that he hurt his had at all?
well max is going to need a new nose at this rate…or she might end up looking like golden pug with purple hair i swear
Easier to fix a nose with all the pieces present then to go look for all V’s teeth lost in the rubble to make him a pair of super dentures with. heh
While I don’t mind too much for the fight to continue a bit longer, I hope Max and V will wrap it up soon, and without further interferences.
It’s fine for V to have his moment or two, but I really hope Max won’t need help or saving, as that would completely undermine her character and definitely push her into the “overrated, annoying, incompetent braggart” category, which would make her extremely unlikeable and pointless.
So, please, let the two fight it out and let Max show why is she the top dog, and not a Worf.
Eh, she tried to go for a quick take down with some intimidation thrown in to demoralize him into surrendering before she had to permanently injure him and destroy more property. The nose thing was a mistake she acknowledged to herself. The bragging earlier in the day was for a press reasons she already explained. Her earlier bragging may also prove to be a mistake but she and her whole team are new to this whole super police thing (intimidating citizens into standing down and worrying about killing opponents actively trying to kill you probably didn’t factor in much in her old jobs) so I’ll give her a break and give her a chance to learn and grow as a character.
Needing help from HER team to defeat a threat makes her “overrated”? If she didn’t she would be another boring Superman type. There is nothing wrong with needing an assist against a near equal enemy from your fellow team mates. It actually makes for a more interesting story where you aren’t constantly wondering why the rest of them are even there…. (I guess their job in that world would just be to slow bad guys down till Maxima could fly in from all the other missions she has to do BY HERSELF).
Or like where they constantly have to manufacture reasons why Goku “needs” his old team mates. (mostly to buy time for Goku to finish training up to a new level by being amusing punching bags?)
There is a difference between a help against a very powerful enemy that has been built up as such , and a random big guy who just decided to pick a fight for some reason.
Also, there is a difference between a boring, invincible hero who always wins with little to no problem, and a character who has literally no history of successful fights and victories up to this point. How can you call Max an invincible boring hero if she by this point has an amazing record of 0 wins, and manages to win once?
As far as we the readers know, this is her first fight against after she was built up as the world’s most powerful Super ( or one of a few ) and after she acted the way she acted. So, if she fails at her very first challenge against a random guy on a parking lot, what does it say about her?
It damages her character both for the readers and other people in-universe.
I see so its a timing thing. She is allowed to get help from her team mates later on after she has done the job of the entire team once or twice to prove she is a bad ass who can get by without the team.
Of course a character needs to be estabilished, and by on-panel actions, not by second-hand information.
Which is the very reason we are having this big fight, so various characters can be estabilished.
When informed and demonstrated abilities don’t match, the character tends to end up either a mockery ( Worf, stormtroopers ) or, if the character is additonally a big-mouthed windbag ( which Max definitely is) , simply unlikeable and tiresome.
Whether or not you can defeat a villain who jumped out of the bushes doesn’t really say AS much about her character to me as what she chooses to do, how she feels, how she reacts because of it. (((Not to mention a big part of why she isn’t quickly defeating him is PROBABLY because she is TRYING (not always succeeding “Ooops”) to be a cop working on domestic soil in a populated area surrounded by various levels of squishies and is not opening up with her top level powers which tend to cause LOTS of peripheral damage. “V” oddly enough has shown some mild concern along the same lines which is surprising for a “villain”… but that’s a separate issue so back on track)))
She bragged because she thought it was a strategic thing to do. Yes she thought she could mostly back it up and at that time she had every reason to think she could. If she fails to catch this guy (which isn’t the same as being completely beaten by him though not good for a cop) how she reacts, possibly suffers and then hopefully grows can be VERY interesting to read. IF she is completely beaten by him… the same really. Its all down to whether or not she realizes her mistakes and grows from them that determines how annoying she is. Bragging at that point would make no sense strategically, if it ever did, and continuing to do it as well as going forward with all her other tactics and attitudes unchanged by reflection on this could be very bad for her character. But that is all for the future. Nothing she can do this early in the game automatically makes her a “Worf” it just sets her up for the potential to be so. And if DaveB wasn’t aware of that danger before, and I’m sure he was, he has to be now cause I know he reads these comments especially when they drag on for several long posts like this conversation.
Interestingly enough in her big press conference speech she said she was fought to a standstill twice before this and one of those was on the team (apparently Dabbler from the nudge after that). So whatever else she was going for its been established in story that someone we have never seen has fought her to a tie and one of those people she went out of her way to brag about was on her TEAM. So one of the people she considers her power EQUAL, or near equal, is on her TEAM. Dabbler got brushed aside by this guy as well. DaveB wants you to think of this guy as a threat worthy of the whole team not just Maxima. Kicking his arse may have been planned from the ground up as a team event and nothing would please me more. I came to watch a team learning to work together over time to defeat even the most outrageous of foes. Defeating “V” without using her most area and civilian destroying powers is probably gonna take team work. Its harder taking top tier villains down in a contained way then just opening up with everything you have like she probably did in the military. This is a new thing she is attempting to do and its probably gonna be a learning process for her as well as the rest of the team. So the information we were given before applies but not as directly as you might think.
IF DaveB wants to get one of their defeats out of the way early on so they can study it and train around their weaknesses as a TEAM that’s cool with me as long as the characters react to that defeat in a 3 dimensional fully realized manner. If he wants to establish their great potential as a close nit team by letting them know, even at this early stage, when uber-Maxima needs an assist that’s fine too.
If she manages to defeat this guy fairly easily on her own. Fine, it establishes her cred and makes certain types of fans happy. But we learn only a little from it so hopefully if that is all that is going on we move on quickly. Most of what we learned of value came from her getting hurt and most of what is happening of any narrative value is coming from her getting hurt… just like when her other team mates got hurt earlier. If he had some way of affecting her emotionally through some conversation that would work to but I doubt he is gonna have any knowledge that affects her on such a deeply personal level.
There are always many ways to skin a cat story wise and this beginning, however it goes, can be made to work and work out well for Maxima. I noticed you used the phrase “tends to end up” showing you are aware this has to happen repeatedly to create a Worf so at least twice… TVtropes is a nice site with a lot of good information but shouldn’t be used as a set of “rules” to inform every little decision. You can take a few elements from those tropes safely without falling into them if you are careful to think about your characters as robust fully realized “people” or you can even go a step further and subvert them to have fun with informed readers.
On a related note I am interested that you haven’t mentioned Dabbler being brushed aside as setting her up for potential “Worfdom”. She is, or is close to, Maxima’s equal according to what we were told.
You have good points, and I like discussing it with you, so I hope you don’t mind me continuing with it.
The problem with giving Max a potential loss and a blow to her ego to make her rethink her ways is threefold at this point.
The first I mentioned – the discrepancy between informed and demonstrated ability which I usually find grating.
The second is, Max has already been introduced as a fully formed, experienced character who has seen a lot of combat, both mundane and superpowered, and just dropkicking her out of her place into a sudden character redevelopment at this point in time, when we are still being introduced to everyone and building up the protagonist’s (Sydney) character development arc seems a strange choice.
The third is the in-universe one.
Consider this: The primary reason they have this big fight is because Max practically forced all the superpowered egomaniacs ( which she was well aware they existed ) to come at the team in full force. You cannot swing your metaphorical junk in such people’s faces and expect them to quietly back off without being very stupid or very naive ( something Max never struck me as ) .
So, all this mess is in big part a direct consequence of her arrogance.
Now, she knew well a good part of her team is either poorly experienced or completely unexperienced when it came to combat, with some completely unpowered individials among them who would be easy pickings for the superpowered enemies, and yet she went along with her challenge, purely out of absolute certainity she can deal with all comers if going gets rough.
So, how would all this look to her subordinates?
If she can put her money where her mouth is, it would show them they can rely on her and her arrogance isn’t just that. So, I’d be willing to accept her and all her flaws ( and even like her ) despite throwing me into otherwise perfectly avoidable life-threatening combat.
If she can’t, honestly I’d hate to be a subordinate to a commander whose actions would throw me into mortal danger not for some greater good or practical purpose or sense of duty, but simply out of hubris and overinflated ego.
Furthermore, her failing at this first simple challenge would completely invert her intended mesage she gave during the demonstration; Instead of ” If you make a mess or come at me or my team, I’ll make you regret you were ever born” it would end up a ” If you feel like making a mess or coming at me or my team feel free to do so as I certainly can’t stop you. Just take us out one by one, me including”.
What I might not have stated is, that wouldn’t make the story itself bad or flawed, because there surely are quite a few of such people around ( too much, I’d say).
But it definitely would make Max’s character unlikeable, and I don’t have a feeling that was the author’s goal.
Plus, in my case the fact such characters are simply my personal pet peeve doesn’t help. Can’t stand them, and can’t even like hating them.
On the contrast, Death Toll is the kind of an arrogant, unapologetic, pretentious bastard of a character I like very much, for he has definitely shown his arrogance is well-deserved, as he would have wiped the floor with the entire team (most likely including the top guns like Max or Dabbler ) with little to no effort if not for Syd’s plot knowledge.
The reason I never mentioned Dabbler is because, honestly, I haven’t given her much thought. She is so far one of only 2 characters in the entire comic I dislike. In her case it’s due to being the mobile deus-ex-machina dispenser, whose undefined and unlimited powers and abilities can make her at any given moment achieve anything or nothing, no matter how far-fetched.
This also saves her from being Worf-ified, since in any given situation an explanation of “She just can’t beat that” cannot be argued against due her undefined nature. So, her being able to draw against Max but unable to threaten V ( so far ) is perfectly compatible with what we have seen of her. She might plausibly (by her standards) have “anti-Max spray” in her “utility belt”, while severely lacking in “anti-Vehemence” gadgets or spells.
In short, less Dabbler the better, as far as I am concerned.
I am hoping one of Sydney’s unknown orb’s either drains him of power or shoves him into stasis.
I’m sort of hoping one of the unknown orbs acts like a half arsed Copy-Crown allowing her to copy one power from an enemy (or team mate I suppose) into the orb temporarily.
*cell phone rings* Not gonna answer… *cell phone continues to ring* Still not gonna answer… *cell phone rings again, looks at it, sighs* Hey Larry. *pause* Yeah…yeah I know… *pause* Hey…how about double or nothing on 12 panels? *pause* C’mon Larry. *pause* Sweet. Talk to you later. *click* Okay Dave…you failed me on 6 panels, wrap this up in 6 more and we’re good.
“Slips Dave a twenty to draw it out by 7 pages”
+1
…I gather that “Larry” might be a friend or related to you somehow?…
;)
no just want to help a small business entrepreneur
As long as it doesn’t help an entrepreneur get so big that he lobbies government for advantadges over his competition, that’s fine by me.
:)
Come on Sidney, see if you can protect the poor guy from Max’s wrath. Put your force field around him instead of you . . . Then see how long his air lasts. Though I don’t think Maxima would appreciate it.
Doesn’t work. Official word is she has to be on the inside of her force field. This would be less than ideal.
DaveB’s gonna have to put this info on top of the page or something! LOL
Probably wouldn’t help. It seems this has been brought up by some one at least once in the comments to every strip ever since Death Troll got some screen time. And this time it has been suggested twice so far only on the first page of comments, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s brought up again at least once on each new page.
How about a mini-comic where Sydney says something like: “DAMN IT!! If only I could place my shield around other people with myself on the outside. I could save them all!! But alas… I must remain INSIDE THE SHIELD WHENEVER I PUT IT UP. *pointed stare at camera* Oh woes is me.” Or perhaps next post has everybody on the team watching the fight with V from the sidelines, with popcorn, keep individually coming up and asking Sydney why she doesn’t just trap V in her shield?? (I don’t know if she mentioned it in the Press Conference or if they were all paying enough attention to that lack of ability).
OK third time is said to be the one… (timed out twice trying to post this, lost all text both times…)
Both the mini-comic and the peanut gallery idea is workable if they appeal to Dave.
I think they already divulged a bit to much information about the team members individual powers at the press conference. Some of the more obvious powers are unavoidable, but any non obvious power or limitation should only be revealed at a need to know basis.
Which ties in a bit with the “V” as a probe of more mastermindful baddies theory. Though I would think he would have wanted to encourage the team to fight him longer as they surely have a lot more data on Maxima from her previous operations.
Man everyone is suggesting this. She can’t do it! She can’t put her invincible forcefield around other people and suffocate them. It is always centered on her.
Well, if the enemy couldn’t jump, fly, or use projectiles, if she wore an air tank, put a little shield around both of them then made it big while flying up into the air maybe they would suffocate before her.
We haven’t seen him sing yet either, he could have a voice to make Pol Pot sound like that singing beaver
Torture by horrid singing?
That would have him edging away from the gentlemanly villain behavior of before and solidly towards villainous scum!
No, was saying that he has a wonderful voice in an unlikely body (you haven’t heard of Paul Potts? he is the male version of that Scottish creature. they have just released a movie about his experience)
Ah. Nope, never heard of him.
I just hope his singing voice isn’t like Yoko Ono, who’s voice can stop clocks & face shatters mirrors…
Reading one book at a time? Slacker.
For truly epic rubble-drawing, look no further than George Perez. He draws other stuff okay, too, I’ve heard.
…I’ll get the tungsten rods…
A color change? Uh-oh. He’s gone SUPER!
I’m happy the fight is more balanced, but did she really have to get punched in the face again >.>
V needs to get his own back for all those lost teeth. At least the nose will mostly heal back to some kind of normal look…
Not to mention the eye.
Yeah, I’m interested to see if that sucker is still an orb or if the .50 deflated it. Be a bad sign if he could still see out of it.
We’re now under 50 votes from second place; let’s see if we can finish the month there!
Has ANYONE thunk about the meaning of the Design on this GUY?!?
Is it helping him … magic wise?
Quite a lot of people have commented on it, actually. With that magic theory, to boot.
I meant people in the “Grrl Power” world.
Haven’t seen any updates on the watcher in the background, with there plots and graphs and awful nick names. (Okay … I thought a couple were kind of funny.)
Darn! I guess that kills the idea of calling on Uatu, the Watcher to tell us anything.
That bald pervert is dead
He is not dead.
He just moved to Cali and is now producing porn
Even as the director of porn films, he watches but is still constantly tempted to break his non-interference oath.
That’s why he has the internet
Ok i would say its officially safe for Sid to shot him in say the shoulder with the PPO. It won’t kill him but could slow him up for MAX..
*slices through arm LIKE BUTTAH!*
V: My one weakness Phlebtonium Rays!
*arm thumps on the ground*
Sydney: ERK!
Max: If you surrender right now MAYBE our healer can do something if we get that on ice….
“I’ve had worse!” (obligatory Holy Grail comment)
But if that tactic did get him to agree to surrender, would it be considered dis-armament talks?
As long as he comes out with his ” hands up”.
Isn’t that what he just did? Maxi’s nose just got in the way :P
I will admit I kept thinking that every new page Vehemence was finally going to pull a “now let me show you my REAL power” and then it kept not happening. I was just about convinced that this was all about establishing Maxima as Grrl-Power-Superman, but I’m still pleasantly surprised that it’s not all one sided.
I love the Wearing The Cape series! I’ll have to grab the new one. I’m also waiting for the next Just Cause book.