Grrl Power #246 – Sydney Scoville Jr, power susser
Sorry for the late start, I just… forgot to schedule the comic. Bluh.
Anyway a lot of you guys nailed Death Toll’s powers right as the team started taking him seriously, which shouldn’t really surprise me, I mean, I drew him countering fire with ice and ice with fire. Maxima probably could have figured him out, but she does have that whole being the most powerful super known, which makes all the villains look like nails to her giant hammer. Also watching one guy thrash her team got her a little angry, which makes her a little punchy. It’s something she’ll have to work on.
<— If you enjoy the comic, consider supporting it via Patreon or the Amazon referral link.
SuperheroThey're super, thanks for asking!
Meatspace ComicSeriously these are awesome. Check 'em out!
Not UpdatingNo longer updating or only updates sporadically, but definitely worth reading.
SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
I’m so confused. Is he a sniffer of periwinkle butts, or a periwinkle sniffer of butts? Or perhaps periwinkle refers to the flower rather than the color? Periwinkle was always my favorite crayon, so this will be haunting me…
Everyone knows you’re not supposed to ask for whom the bell tolls, yet Sydney essentially does that… Deliberate irony, or just skillful taunting? Really, he was practically begging for someone to ask.
Skillful taunting, no doubt.
He was told he had a chance to surrender by Anvil in plain clothes and displaying no badge. Yup…that’s something you just do to anyone who says to do it :p
When he declined to surrender, Anvil threw the first punch. At that point it becomes defending yourself.
The first guy said coronel, but everyone else outside could generally go the route of defending themselves, if they didn’t attack first, and being in the area because, hey, it’s a public area.
Also, arresting someone who hasn’t done anything, never goes over well and then attacking them when they say no?
Still, the point is, he could have other powers besides Nemesis. :p
Even if he was there and completely innocent as a lamb (arguendo), it was a scene of an attack on law officers, which, last I checked, was a scene of a crime. Hence, ArcSwat had a legitimate interest in making sure that anyone within the area was not a physical threat and in checking whether anyone suspicious in the area was not connected to the group that attacked him. For these reasons, Anvil gave him a lawful order to surrender. Not only did he refuse to comply with such order, he proceeded to threaten her. Furthermore, if he had any doubts as to their legal authority, he could have asked to see identification.
He didn’t threaten some strange half naked women, he warned her what would happen if she attacked him, and guess what, she got what she ignored
The proper response from the Woman Mountain would have been to ask him to leave the area, and only then attempt to apprehend him
Exactly right! Federal agents are required to obey the laws (statutory and constitutional) when in the line of duty just like any public official. Just because a cop or fed gives an order doesn’t mean you have to obey it — even a statute requiring obedience can only require obedience with lawful orders, not ALL orders. Some orders are actually criminal acts to even utter, such as an order to rob a jewelry store (blatant) or an order to stop exercising constitutional rights (subtle).
Also, while police and federal agents can make arrests, they are REQUIRED to meet certain (admittedly relatively low) standards of evidence before they can make a lawful arrest. An unlawful arrest is a criminal act. On a reasonable suspicion, often called an articulable suspicion, a cop can detain someone for a few minutes to ask questions or otherwise investigate — traffic stops, Terry stops, and the like. To make an actual arrest requires a higher standard of evidence called probable cause (specifically that a crime having been/is about to be committed is more likely than not). Dressing funny, even at a super battle, is reasonable suspicion at most. If it were probable cause, ArcSWAT would have to arrest any bystander who has an odd-colored tie.
But that’s arrests. Anvil didn’t attempt one, she went directly to deadly force. This is a criminal act and the victim is entitled to defend himself. A good example of a court case on this is Plummer v. State. In that case, a guy with a gun mouthed off to a cop and the cop didn’t attempt and arrest he simply opened fire. The victim of the cop’s attack was a better shot and the cop died. The Supreme Court of Indiana overturned the guy’s conviction on the grounds that while resisting a lawful arrest is unlawful, resisting a second degree murder attempt IS lawful.
FWTDT’s actions were entirely defensive in nature, he has yet to commit a crime or act in a way that gives probable cause for an arrest. He’s a mouthy jerk, but that’s not only not a crime, it’s protected speech.
On the first page of comments DaveB made a post that explains this. It’s in this thread: https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1471/comment-page-2#comment-248246
It can be seen as a retcon, but I think Dave never anticipated that people would make such a big deal out of this.
Curious as to what Sydney will come up with. Personally, I would think his weakness is non-supers, as They don’t have any copyable powers.
I was thinking a none-direct attack, like creating a cage around him. Technically its not attacking him, and if he tries to get out, he’s attacking it as its inanimate thus an obstacle not an attack.
Can’t they just… Hit him over the head with a block of cement or something? Shoot him?
Unfortunately they can’t just attack him. It looks like he counters any attack. One of the first things we see him do is deflect Concretia after Math threw her out of the building.
No, remember he countered the Flash Grenades, even if only by not being harmed by them; he would counter any external force; a cement block would either result in his physical state defending or something that vaporizes or liquefies the concrete or something; bullets would be deflected. (Although the reaction time and level of awareness beyond that of the person that counter powers can possess is always a factor, some need to see it coming while others the power reacts as a semi-clairvoyant (spider-sense) like alertness to danger.
He didn’t see Hex’ waywrd squirrel-panic-induced barrage
That dumb dumb, his defensive powers wouldn’t make him a challange to the average joe then if they decided to just arrest him. If his powers are defensive, a normal guy can just arrest him then since they have no powers for him to counter.
His power should still work, seeing as this “Nemesis” is a counter-shield type not the mimic type then any attack would be countered, like Anvil’s headlock, his power went with a shock to release him from that while her punch resulted in a kinetic drain. So if a normal person goes to punch him he could drain their kinetic force, shock them, or a (weakening field) causing a person’s muscles to relax or fall asleep rendering them unable to take him away.
remember his defenses worked on flash bang grenades; so its any outside force acting on him is countered.
Hmm you make good point, I think he needs to be taken down in a very different way.
Well, that’s what happends if you stand in the middle of a war zone. Can’t blame anyone but the person standing there for that
I know it’s not related to the current comic, and for some reason the previous comment pages won’t properly display for me, but Jiggawatt was found in another webcomic.
Cool, I’ll have to check that one out. The art looks very Wotch-ish.
It also has a who’s who not unlike yours.
Sweet! Sydney and Max Alert
https://sailorsun.org/?comic=603-party-time
So, FWTBT/PBS could be captured by a Chinese Finger Trap? Since technically the trap is reacting to him rather than the other way around?
I don’t know if the “reply” system is off, but the time stamp on my latest comment was not local time and it is earlier than some other posts on the board. So the time isn’t consistent with local time, and it is not consistent with a master clock (which would keep things in order). Most likely there’s a problem with the time stamper for the post system.
Ooops – the time/date stamp does seem to be following a master system (it is still off from local time). I misread some post dates before typing the first comment.
Is that a version of an implosion device that Dabbler put together?
What does seem to be happening is:
1) Replies are not posted under the comment that they are replying to.
2) The highest level comments are not consistently sorted by timestamp.
Yeah I know about Knife fights, and you did the rest of my job making points about edges so, Thanks!
Well put. If he had done anything more than just striking a pose, he probably wouldn’t be in his current predicament.
OK, that went to a strange place – was supposed to be a reply to someone else’s post.
Counter effect attacking like hit him with both fire and ice
Or ice (water) and electric
Counter combo attacks will be his weakness.
Cape, cloak. Whatever. That brown thing with the hood that flows down his back.
The other guy might not be the same vocal range as Death Troll, such as one of them being a tenor while the other’s a basso, or one (or both) of them could speak with a very pronounced accent. Unless the accent is written phonetically, neither the range of the voice or accents show well in text formats.
Additionally, ‘moss hair’ could have a distinctive voice.
A number of logical reasons where somebody else’s voice coming from your target would just result in the revelation of either the space-bending comm-gates, or the idea that somebody’s trying to play the ‘goading ventriloquist’ card.
The answer to your question is: Yes.
Was he driving a Pinto? The gearshifts in Pintos had nylon threads holding them in instead of steel. Ever tried driving with only one gear and the shifter in your hand?
What we may have here, in PBS, is a personality much like Otto (Kevin Kline) in “A Fish Called Wanda”. He may be well-read, and even above average intelligence, but that doesn’t mean that he understood the material, or is so narcissistic that he perceives everything as it relates directly to himself. What he finds to be clever probably just annoys everyone around him.
Sydney can use her super-aggravation power to get him to surrender. She justs stands with her finger hovering one inch in front of his face saying ‘I’m not touching you. I’m not touching you. I’m not touching you.” After a few minutes of this he will be begging them to take him away.
It could readily be argued that a PR department’s job is to promote, positively, its clients, not to demote, defame, humiliate, or outright libel non-clients. I think that such a civil suit would probably not even reach a jury trial, as Arc would simply settle out of court. Of course, with a savvy PR dep’t., this issue would never even come up, as they would have more ammo just making fun of this villian’s self-chosen lame name. Cue teenager-style eye rolling…
Web master note:
The recent changes to the comment system seem to have made things worse. Today most of the ‘reply’ comments seem to be posted as separate new items.
I think she used her ability to move her orbs (inside the satchel) at the bank. I have no idea if it was caught on film or not.
I think its an order of magnitude matter though. A police officer stands between a potential villain and his beat. A higher city law enforcement official can be used to alter facts in cases, get people off of light charges (maybe), get your dirty cops hired/promoted and procure information (and he probably does get increased security though maybe not enough… ). Arc-SWAT stands between super beings/mad scientists/and powerful secret organizations employing such methods and the chance to lord it over other authorities like gods or demigods acting with impunity (this is a comic world and that is usually how it goes down between the strongest of supers and most types of authority/law enforcement short of other supers). Seems like this increases their importance to at least a congressional level if not presidential family protection level. From their type of threat their small group is the primary defense of a whole nation (and to some extent its allies). Even if a wack job with amazing powers (the mid-level guys measure themselves by the ability to take out tanks efficiently!) doesn’t take an interest some dark organization or rival nation is bound to see the potential in turning one or more of them by threat. So I’m pretty sure if they do go about effectively defending all of their friends and family its gonna cost a ton in personnel, etc…
They’ve instantly gained a ton of potential enemies just by going public. Some of them didn’t have much chance of staying incognito being golden skinned amazons etc… but they could have made things a bit easier by keeping the more normal looking ones under cover. And since they have illusionists etc… they could have confused matters with some of the rest of them as well. The public would have /mostly/ gone along with it as much as they ever do as we have all been conditioned towards the necessity of such by the entertainment media. I can see the press advantages to them all being open and honest “ordinary law enforcement just on a bigger scale” figures but I wonder if we will eventually see some moments where some of them seriously wished they had gone a different route.
*He* is for whom the death tolls… … …actually…I’m starting to see that…having the ability to perfectly counterattack anything thrown at you…you might start to develop suicidal tendencies and begin to actively seek something your power can’t block. I can see him sitting in his bathroom trying to cut his wrists, but he subconsciously turns his skin to steel…He can’t drink alcohol because that’s technically a poison and he counteracts that too out of reflex. He probably cries himself to sleep every night…
Do to the nature of his “Power” that of Nemesis (Which I think will be added to the law books) he made himself available to be attacked so his power could work. It will be argued, and I think with success, that death toll was there to do harm. That with intent he willfully attempted to make the law officers attack him so he could do them harm. That he did willfully use this abilities to support this mass confrontation that resulted in injuries and property damage. So in short he by being there shows intent and is just as guilty as the rest.
His crime is actually fairly simple, provocation of an officer. He provoked an authority figure with the intent of doing harm.
Being a jerk, even to a federal agent, is not a crime. The first amendment protects your right to be an utter ass — no one ever needed a heavily protected right to say exactly what everyone likes to hear.
On the other hand, trying to stop someone from exercising a constitutional right is illegal one way or another whether it be assault/battery or a color of law violation. I’d be willing to bet money that a super power, particularly super strength like Anvil has, is considered a deadly weapon by the courts in any world with publicly-known super powers.
If FWTDT’s powers are automatic and involuntary, he probably isn’t guilty of assaulting a federal agent. After all, every single police sting operation is based around the idea of goading or tricking someone into committing an illegal act. If looking scary and talking tough until someone breaks the law to shut you up is illegal, then so are most police undercover operations.
Being a federal agent is not a magic exemption from having to obey laws, especially federal laws. FWTDT may have intended to be hit so his powers would activate, but self-defense is not illegal, even if it’s a federal agent unlawfully using force against him. Anvil didn’t have probable cause to arrest him, she only had a reasonable suspicion he was there to commit a crime, which isn’t enough for an arrest. A false arrest is a crime too, remember.
Actually the first amendment only allows for freedom of press and expression, forbidding the government from acting on you based on opinions. However expressions that violate the rights of others (putting people in danger) like yelling fire in a crowded theater (the ever popular example are not covered); and while you cannot be arrested for flipping off a cop, you can be arrested for telling the cop you will kick their ass. There is also harassment, and reasonable suspicion given he is with a group that is currently attacking them, and has issued threats (which threatening someone is most certainly NOT EVER covered by freedom of speech).
The only time you can be arrested for what you express is if it can be considered n assault(cursing at a cop), inciting violence, or advocating treason.
Also Anvil really blew it when she said she was going to arrest him for his name.
There is NO legal reason for that.
Actually cursing at a cop is protected speech, just like showing him your middle finger is protected expression. Inciting violence is only a crime if there is a possibility of success AND the intent is to immediately provoke it. For example, saying “All corrupt cops should be shot” is not an incitement — neither is what FWTDT said to Anvil about her not faring well if she attacks him. Telling someone the consequences of committing a crime is not inciting violence.
You’re quite right that arresting someone for their name has no legal justification. It actually amounts to a public official punishing someone for protected speech. When Anvil said she was going to do that, she violated federal law and committed a crime punishable by up to a year in prison and/or a $1,000 fine.
Nope it is called verbal assault, unless you phrase it correctly.
Example calling a cop a fecal headed maternal fornicator is verbal assault ,but if you start by saying, In my opinion you are acting like a fecal headed maternal fornicator they can still arrest you but the case would be tossed because it is your opinion not name calling.
at least that is what I was told by a police officer in my state
The ‘fire in a crowded theater’ quote comes from an early 20th century US Supreme Court case, and the justice who uttered it later said many times that it was one of the worst mistakes of his career. A court case in (IIRC) the 1950s partially overturned the ‘fire in a crowded theater’ ruling, and it is no longer applicable case law.
Reasonable suspicion does not allow an arrest to be made, nor does it allow a “surrender or be hurt” threat to be lawful. It certainly does not justify a deadly force attack, which is what a punch from a woman with superhuman strength is. Self-defense against a federal officer committing aggravated battery or attempted murder isn’t illegal. Assaulting a federal agent is a crime but only if the agent is acting in the line of duty at the time — making an illegal use of force or a false arrest isn’t in the line of duty.
Please do not consider this trolling.
I had a national security clearance, for over 10 years due to my job. So we, at work, kind of played attention to what was happing with the USA. Tho I’ll be the first to tell you I don’t know much.
Oh, this is good, yes, I prefer DB’s world to our own. Just months after 9-11 police now can stop you, search you car, home, or detain you, on suspicion alone, or what is thinly veiled as probable cause. Granted if you have a good income and an attorney you most likely not be bothered, much.
Police in Portland Oregon experienced a tripling in suspect deaths, the most noted one, with nearly one hundred cops and a handful of swat around his home, a male came out of his home hands up, naked, surrendering, and was shot, driven away on the bumper of a swat step van with an officer standing on him, then this same man committed suicide in a hospital bed even tho he was heavily medicated, had gotten out of surgery and was paralyzed from the shoulders down. He hung himself.
Now noise like this is not going on all the time, but it has increased. Police are gearing up, equipment, armor, heavy guns, for terrorist actions. Or the fall of the USA economy, I’m still not sure which.
So to get back on track. One, any law officer can arrest you, for probable cause. He refused, challenging the officer, she being a trained officer used minimal force, a headlock, he resisted in a way that would have killed a normal human. Then fought three more officers wiping the floor with them. Continued to verbally assault the officers when they stopped attacking him.
Just for fun, taunt a real police officer if you really want to see what we the USA have become. They would be well within there rights to mace you, cuff you, and toss you in jail.
This will be my last post on this subject. Sorry DB, but this kind of hit home for me, and it’s a tender spot.
Actually, if you reread the panels, your analysis is off.
First, while an officer can arrest you on probable cause, Anvil only had reasonable suspicion. False arrests are not lawful arrests. What FWTDT said to Anvil was not technically a refusal, even if she did have probable cause. But since she didn’t have justification for an arrest, it wasn’t a refusal to be arrested at all. All he said to her was that if she attacked him she’d regret it, which isn’t illegal either. If telling someone the consequences of committing a crime was itself a crime then most police, most lawyers and all judges would be behind bars.
Second, Anvil has superhuman strength and is well known for it — remember, press conference. When a Karate black belt or professional boxer punches someone, it is considered an attack with deadly force. I have no doubt a world with superpowers would consider a super strength punch to be at least that level of force. Sure, she could pull her punch, but someone about to be punched by her does not know that. It’s no different than someone pointing a pistol at you, you don’t know whether they will shoot you in the head or the hand, or if they’ll shoot at all — waiting until they shoot to start defending yourself is stupid.
Third, FWTDT’s counter to Anvil’s murder attempt would not have killed a normal human. He drained the kinetic energy of the attack. But even if it would have killed a normal human, he was entitled to use deadly force in self-defense against an unlawful deadly force attack. A good example of almost exactly the same circumstances is a case from Indiana, Plummer v. State.
Fourth, while other officers seeing a fellow officer get her ass handed to her might cause them to jump in to support her, it doesn’t make resisting their attacks unlawful. They probably aren’t guilty of a crime, since they are unaware that Anvil was committing assault & battery before getting taken down, and therefore are acting out of a sincere belief they are lawfully defending her, even thought objective facts have them aiding and abetting a felony. FWTDT is still defending himself — the fact he’s a lot more successful at it than Joe Average would be doesn’t negate the fact he is acting in self-defense against unlawful use of force.
Fifth, taunting someone isn’t illegal. No one ever needed a heavily protected right to say nice things to people. Taunting people who are unlawfully attacking you is definitely not a crime. It’s not verbal assault, it’s freedom of expression. Just because someone is shooting at you doesn’t make quips into crimes.
Sixth, if a police officer maces you, cuffs you and/or tosses you in jail for exercising your protected right to freedom of speech, that officer has committed CRIMES against you. Federal crimes for certain and possibly state crimes as well. For example, in Washington state official misconduct is a gross misdemeanor (maximum of a year in prison). On the federal end, Google for 18 USC 241 and 18 USC 242 — the Department of Justice website has excellent writeups on both. Cuffing you for exercising a constitutional right violates 242 to the tune of a year in federal prison. Use of chemical or electrical weapons (both dangerous weapons, legally) makes the 242 violation worth ten years in prison — a felony by any standard. If the officer has backup and that backup helps him commit the rights violation, there’s 241 which is conspiracy against rights and everyone involved could spend the next ten years in prison. If any deaths (including of a perpetrator of the violation) occur, any aggravated sexual assaults occur, or the violation includes torture or use of fire, the maximum penalty under both federal statutes is life without parole or even execution.
So no, the situation with FWTDT isn’t as cut and dried as you think. Granted, it’s rare for a cop to arrest a fellow cop or for any cop to be prosecuted for rights violations, but just because the system is corrupt and/or overworked, that doesn’t make committing crimes legal.
I hope she kicks him in the nuts.
Given the way his power works, can you say “broken foot”? Sure you can!
Nemesis may react to just supper powers, that offered Sid could just kick him in the nuts and it would be over. Or that said any non super power could effect him, in game play that would help reduce the cost of that ability.
Flash grenades aren’t a super-power; so he is countering all outside forces acting on him.
I’m sorry, I thought according to the law, he’s defending himself. I guess it stops being self defense when it’s government employees that attack first. I suppose they could arrest him for being part of a group that attacked them, and I admit being a member and being present is a bit damning, but honestly, if you’re going to arrest someone on guilt by association, and throw them in prison over it, you are being unreasonable.
Even in child pornography rings, you need to get evidence on EVERYONE you plan to arrest. You don’t just say, “Oh, and this guy’s with the child molesters” without some real proof, and a video of him defending himself while everyone else attacks is NOT solid enough to put him in prison.
You could arrest him for being a vigilante. Sure, he has a mask and a cape. What has he done, other than taunt you? I don’t see you arresting every protester who shouts a about hugging children with nuclear arms. Though I admit they might be punched for using such an utterly stupid line. Point is unless you doctor the footage, or lie in court, he should be going free.
He provoked an authority figure with intent to cause harm.
So what? Mouthing off to cops or feds isn’t a crime, it’s a constitutionally-protected right. If someone acts like a jerk to you and you punch him, it would be you who goes to jail for throwing the punch, he wouldn’t be charged with anything, since freedom of speech is not a crime.
The fact that he knew he could adequately defend himself against assault & battery doesn’t mean the assault & battery were legally justified.
Correct, Assault and Battery would be illegal… *IF*hey were not cops doing their job, by attempting to clear the area of bystanders and criminals.
due to his prior conversations with various other criminals he has incontrovertibly proclaimed himself as a criminal, and he get’s the rewards for doing so… unfortunately your logic isn’t correct. he was not JUST “mouthing off to a cop”, he was provoking an attack on a cop (She-bang to Max)…
I’m sure the data gathering efforts by Arc-Light (the guys on the other rooftop inputting the data on their Pipboy glasses) will show that he was talking to a known criminal (She-Bang) and then, immediately after their conversation ended, she attempted to kill Maxima… granted it didn’t work, but technicalities DO count… that means he can be charged with any/all of the following: conspiracy to commit murder, aiding and abetting the commission of a crime, i don’t know what the legal terms would be, but *ordering* said act of murder, etc, etc, etc… the litany of charges continues…
right now, the only person almost guaranteed to get off scot-free is Fedora-man… note i said ALMOST… he may get snagged by the legal system for the simple fact that he pointed out FHTDT to Sydney, “possibly” in hopes that she would have attacked him. but he did it in such a way that it becomes plausible that he can weasel-word his way out of anything too stiff… i suspect that Barberian will get off pretty lightly as well because he did, in fact, surrender. heck, he even ASKED if he COULD, before they had a chance to ask/order him to. that will go well in his case, but he will STILL get stuck with SOMETHING…
He was making threats, if someone tells me they will kill me and have a gun and I beat them down before they have a chance to draw the weapon (well depending on your state and which level of law enforcement this is and other applicable laws; freedom of speech is not one of those) either I would have (self defense based on reasonable belief they could and intended to cause bodily harm and even death); which they do have here. He was told as he hadn’t attacked anyone to come quietly; as he was a suspicious presence standing around in a combat zone. He refused and then declared an intent to cause harm. Which was met with none-violent restraint; which resulted in him assaulting an officer; his power does not account for the back hand he gave once’ Anvil was drained. After this point he has resisted arrest, and regardless of defense he did throw Jiggawat through another officer.
Out of all the people in this scenario the only one who can expect to get off with a slap on the wrist and probation is the guy who surrendered; especially if he makes a deal on how and why the group was attacking them in the first place. Heck the fact Death Toll was even there with a group attacking them places him under suspicion of intent to cause harm to officers.
dude… he was seen associating with a person that just moments after they finished talking that person went on to attack Max with her bolo-bomb. Right there that is grounds for the authorities to consider him associated with the person attacking, therefore they DO have the right to tell him to surrender. and to be precessed with the rest of them, once the fight was over and they sorted out all the evidence, he might have gone free, etc… IF he had surrendered when asked by Anvil, then he would probably get charged with being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and being stupid about it…but instead, he escalated it into resisting arrest, because when Anvil said to surrender, he basically said F.U. so she attempted to take him down using NON-Lethal force, ie the choke-hold, the reason she used the choke hold was good enough, she read the data from her glasses, that said he had some kind of super power, but never at a precise level, so she used a fairly basic level of power that could be reasonably sure of being non-lethal, so that she could secure the crime scene (and all bystanders, so they don’t get the jump on somebody else) which he then retaliated via electric shock/taser effect, then when Anvil stepped up her power level, he wiped the floor with her. after that there is ZERO chance of him getting away scot-free from legal consequences… now that he’s been de-fanged, we just have to find out how to take care of getting him into custody…
Oh yeah no encouragement only side remarks, that really shows he is on her side
Actually, under the law police and feds have less freedom to use force in many ways than private citizens do. It’s illegal for police to simply attack people, but the system is corrupt and corrupt prosecutors don’t prosecute their buddies the corrupt cops. This has been going on so long that nobody objects much since they view it as normal — nobody protests against every day life as a rule.
Google for “Plummer v. State” and “18 USC 242”, both have quite a bit to say about cops or feds attacking people.
OOOoooookaaaay. This was a reply to someone a page or so back……….. ?#
Just douse him with a large 10lb bag of itching powder and see what happens.
@JediaKyrol (since the Reply system is FUBAR)
If you haven’t already, you should read Worm (parahumans.wordpress.com) for a villain with a twisted version of that idea. Spoiler: The villain Crawler has the ability to adapt to anything that doesn’t immediately kill him. He responds by seeking to get hit by all available attack forms, i.e. he picks fights with supers (and destroys everything else to convince supers to attack him). Unlike FWTBT, Crawler’s body changes when that happens – his form ends up resembling a massive Lovecraftian crawling horror.
I think that power is labeled “Evolution” or “Physical Evolution”; Depending on if its temporary or permanent.
It will be interesting seeing how they beat him. I can’t think of any specific examples, but I have seen comics in which the good guys have to fight someone whose power is the ability to counter other people’s powers. It’s usually a pretty tough battle until they figure out what the limitations are on the counter-power.
Death Toll doesn’t seem to have any of the limitations I have seen before.
His power counters attempts to restrict his movements
His power counters attacks that are not aimed specifically at him.
His power counters attacks that do not involve powers.
His power counters purely technological effects that could harm him.
His powers are a little inconsistent in their behavior. When Dabbler throws a fireball at him, he creates an ice shield. When Hex tries to fry him with one of her beams he just ignores it.
I’ve noticed that if someone touches him when they are attacking, he doesn’t just counter their attack, he develops a power that lets him beat them. He got a kinetic energy drain to take down Anvil. He got some kind of power over lightning when Jiggawatt, ahem, “charged” him. He must have gotten something interesting to have taken down Hiro in one hit.
He doesn’t seem to have gotten anything from Harem touching him though. Apparently sticking grenades to him didn’t count as an attack, so all his power did is prevent the grenades from bothering him. It is interesting that his power prevented him from being blinded or deafened. It protects him from both harm and inconvenience apparently.
Dabbler has been hanging back throwing stuff at him, and he hasn’t been able to do a thing to her. He just counters her attacks. It seems likely that Maxima could hang back and throw GoldPlasma™ all day long without hurting him any, but if she tried to hit him, gods know what power he might develop.
I have to wonder if one of his limitations is that he can’t move. Even if his powers are entirely defensive, he’d be more of a nuisance and much more likely to be attacked if he went around punching people in the nose, even if he didn’t do any damage. For that matter, he’s another character who could stop by Wal~mart and buy a 12 gauge attack power.
There are a lot of different counter-types, Adaptation/Evolution powers that cause physical changes to attacks; absorbing any attack *what many us thought his power was*, one that I am familiar with is a spell called “Aeigis Shield” which absorbs any attack and sends back its equal and opposite force; an Inferno Blast will be sent back as an Absolute Zero Beam, a physical strike results in a Drain, and hilariously shooting the shield with magical poison would send back Healing Dots and a Death Spell would reflect as a Revive (use the enemies own defenses against them).
But for this guy, it seems any external force acting on him is countered, a perfect Nemesis, defended or countered depending on the force. I’d say an indirect attack might work, like building a cage around him, or a large concrete wall. Technically its not directed at him directly, its only creating an obstacle; and as an inanimate object (so long as it has no stun or electric or any special features) it can’t actually attack him; he’d have to hit it; and as we’ve seen as he won’t attack; him initiating the attack may negate the defensive qualities of his power; thus he’d just hurt his hands trying to punch a cage or wall…or Maxima if she just stood there.
@TheARCmage
I partially disagree with your first point. We haven’t seem him move. He might have, he might not have, but he has never been seen flying, walking, running, etc. or involuntary movements such as getting knocked back. When Concretia was accidentally golfed his way he swats her rather than step aside and he has stood still for every attack. So lack of movement may be a limitation.
Your other points are good: he doesn’t always counter with “opposites”; he responds equally well to magic, super powers, physical attacks, and “normal/tech” attacks (the grenades); and he resists semi-indirect attacks like the ice trap. The versatility in defense is impressive.
He has turned at least twice, 1st to counter Anvils punch, 2nd to release Jiggy at Stalwart, and there was a stance shift when dealing with Dabs ice attack.
Is anyone else curious as to what would happen if Maxima had attacked him? Or is it just that I like pretty explosions?
Isn’t that one with the green hair dressed in blue from “Girl Genius”?
Not unless there is a gender swap involved.
As many double pages and crowed pages as have been going on now – you might be ready for three days a week. There is more then enough going on in this page to make a comfortable 2 pages and fewer panels per update will probably mean fewer art glitches. (because you will catch them before updating)
And all the people arguing about the legal system are missing a point here. Specifically that NO ONE here is likely to get “life in prison” as an option on the arrest. I see lots of fines and community service in the future with optional jail time. Possibly even commuted to “time served” if they are jailed before sentencing.
The real jail time happens after a few rounds of breaking out of jail/skipping bail + additional crimes. That is when the jail sentences start adding up and compounding and become effectively “life in prison”.
Assaulting a federal agent is a felony. Unless you’re a cop, prosecutor or judge you don’t get just a fine and community service for that.
As to the self defense argument, imagine a similar situation without superpowers. A gang of armed thugs in ski masks are robbing a bank. Cops show up, gang runs out guns blazing, all of them get shot except for one guy wearing a gi and a plastic Chuck Norris mask who walked out with them but wasn’t shot at because he isn’t visibly armed and hasn’t done anything overtly threatening. He isn’t restrained, held at gunpoint, or showing any other signs of being under duress (ie a hostage) and he isn’t running away like any innocent bystander would. Also, he’s wearing a mask at a bank robbery.
Would anyone in their right mind say the cops shouldn’t run up to this bozo with guns drawn and demand that he surrender? Would any court find the officers at fault for attempting to forcibly restrain him when he responds by dropping into a fighting stance and saying, “Bring it on, donut munchers?” And would any court rule that excessive force was used if they started shooting after he dodged the first taser darts, kicked one cop in the head and then used a judo throw to toss a second cop into a third, all the while screaming insults and challenges?
What a court rules and what the law says aren’t necessarily the same thing. Courts are notorious for siding with police even when the law says they can’t.
Whether Chuck would be acting in lawful self-defense in your example would depend on whether he was one of the bank robbers or one of the hostages.
If he was one of the bank robbers but couldn’t afford a ski mask (and went with what he had in his closet) then any use of force on his part against the police is violence in the course of committing a crime, and is not self-defense.
If he was a hostage or bystander (maybe he was doing some banking on Halloween?) then he is entitled to self-defense. The police may have a reasonable suspicion he is one of the robbers, but they are not entitled to use force, especially not deadly force against him. He may have gotten into a fighting stance, but the police were ALREADY in fighting stances when they ran up to him. If they attack him, he’s entitled to respond in kind. Dangerous weapon for dangerous weapon, deadly weapon for deadly weapon.
A badge is not a magic waiver for having to obey the law.
Um, no. As the son of a 20 year police veteran, I can tell you, when the police say you’re under arrest just saying “No I’m not” is resisting arrest and grounds for use of force. Police are trained to respond in kind, you’ll be taken down and restrained. Take a martial arts stance? The presumption will be that your hands and feet are deadly weapons and you will be shot. Period. End of story (and you). If you’re innocent or a hostage, you’ll get your chance to tell your story down at the station if you cooperate. Resist and they just might be taking your statement down at the morgue. Oh, that’s right…
An arrest must be lawfully justified when it is initiated or it is a false arrest — false arrests are crimes because they violate the constitutional right to due process and involve an unlawful act of imprisonment that is borderline kidnapping. Use of force to compel compliance with an unlawful arrest is likewise assault/battery. The search incident to an arrest also violates the fourth amendment when the arrest is false.
If an arrest is not lawful, saying “no I’m not under arrest” is not resisting arrest, it’s resisting a crime. Taking a defensive stance in response to an aggressive and offensive stance is self-defense. Simply possessing a weapon is not grounds for immediate arrest most places, if it were police would have to arrest themselves for it.
Just because the system is corrupt and refuses to prosecute cops who make bad arrests or use force illegally doesn’t make those actions cease being crimes. Ask yourself this: If it’s legal to respond in kind, why would it be illegal to respond in kind to police acting unlawfully?
I’d like to see Death Toll counter Dabbler’s lust inducing ability. I can see it reacting as something like a mental whitewash mixed with a metaphorical bucket of ice water.