Grrl Power #230 – To the rescue!
Maxima is a dirty fighter, no two ways about it. She employs sort of a super version of Krav Maga, basically with the intent to cripple in a single hit. I know there are some continuities which say that Superman knows some crazy Krytonian martial art, but most of what I’ve seen of him comes from Superman:TAS, the Justice League cartoons, and the DC animated movies, and in those it would be generous to even call him a pugilist. He just hits things, and not even very skillfully. It always bugged me that his job is basically just to hit stuff, yet he never seemed to study even basic martial arts. It’s probably a different story depending on what comic you’re reading, but all the animated Superman really made me want to make sure that my top tier super fought very differently. Besides it being sensible to want to take out opponents with brutal efficiency, Max is also wanting to build a reputation, which is if you get into a fight with her, the best possible outcome is an extended hospitalization.
You can see the two in the last panel of this page under the Hump the Barrett word bubble of the parking lot shot on this page.
I think… with this page, all the major players have been introduced, or at least show doing something during the fight. There might be a few more minions left to blow away, but from this point on it’s mostly attrition. Arc-SWAT has done very well so far thanks to a number of factors, training, teamwork, coordination, actually watching each other’s backs, etc. We’ll see if it holds up, especially now that it seems that the remaining antagonists are trying some coordination of their own.
#MakeComics: Speaking of watching each other’s backs, it’s funny how pages and story details can change while creating a page. Basically Jiggawatt is reaaaaly lucky I didn’t have room on this page to draw her barely deflecting the second parking bumper that gets chucked at her in panel 6. I had planned on having half of it catch her in the ribs, not quite taking her out of the fight but effectively immobilizing her. Basically it would have turned her in to a wheezing lightning turret. But I couldn’t get everything I wanted on the page, so I rewrote a few key postcedent (it’s a word) events and I think it’s much better for the change. Since I couldn’t fit the bumper hitting her, I could have either had Breakpoint conveniently forget to throw it (not ideal since I showed her picking it up last page) or I get to show Sydney being a huge boon to the team, not only providing cover as we saw on previous pages, but now actively stuffing enemy attacks.
Oh and props to Charlie Abbott for being the first person to spot that Jiggawatt is wearing Major Kira’s shirt. (Or my close approximation of it – I think there were multiple version of it in wardrobe and the criss-cross changed slightly with each one.) Charlie has already been awarded his No-prize.
Edit: I’ve removed the ads from the page temporarily since some people were getting warnings about bad links appearing on the site. Please let me know if you see any warnings about the page at grrlpowercomic[at]gmail.com, and if you can, send me details or a screenshot of the warning as it might help diagnose the issue. Hopefully it’s just the ads.
<– If you enjoy the comic, consider supporting it via Patreon. Or buy something via the Amazon referral link. It’s all good.
SuperheroThey're super, thanks for asking!
Meatspace ComicSeriously these are awesome. Check 'em out!
Not UpdatingNo longer updating or only updates sporadically, but definitely worth reading.
SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
Antecedent maybe?
‘Antecedent’ is almost always used to delineate succession in the past tense (things that came after), while ‘postcedent’ refers to succession in the future tense (things that will come after). It’s not a graceful word, but it’s the most accurate term DaveB could have used.
Here’s hoping Sydney skyhooks Achilles and starts using him as a club.
..that is a hilariously awesome idea!
isn’t he still under a pile of rubble
if it can lift a Honda element, it can yoink Achilles out of the rubble
I think he saw Boilerplate-boy (too much BttF3?) fly-by, and immediatedly though “Achilles”, since he’s been doing so much of that…
The Lighthook doesn’t really need an extra weight at the end to be effective. It can lift a car so I expect a punch from it could do major damage. Which is why Halo is confining her self to entangles, drops and blocks.
First of all, it looks like he’s already got something shiny he could throw, might wanna consider taking care of her himself, except…
I think he forgets that calling out orders minus radio means other may be on to him quickly >.>
Unless he’s a telepath, and local sub-vocalization is how keeps from broadcasting accidental surface thoughts along with his intended message.
Trying to concentrate on single English words to transmit brain to brain is much easier when you are actively saying or writing them. Just try to sit and have a brain only conversation with yourself, no lip moving no sub-vocalization. It’s like trying to mediate, but worse you aren’t just trying to clear your mind of surface thoughts but keep very specific and changing things in mind… without letting those words fire associated neurons and creating a buzz of mental static.
Sub-vocalization doesn’t play well with exclamation points. It reads as yelling.
We do not know that he is calling out. I read it as him issuing orders to his lieutenant, next to him. I guess it is her job to pass on the commands. Perhaps telepathically.
But, if you have a close look at his ear, you can see a metal attachment on it. Maybe just ornamental. However it looks suspiciously mechanical to me. The heroes might not be the only ones who have come across the concept of radios.
The difference being that our team have ArcLight monitoring, so if they are communicating, hopefully Leon will be able to intercept their signals. Unless they have some serious heavy-duty scrambling.
arc light doesn’t need to commo intercept just put up a couple of standard army warlock systems. all commo that isn’t matching the teams is dead radio or cellular.
The metal is an ear clasp. Decorative and a good way to let him find his ears after Max knocks him out from between them.
Of course it looks like an ear clasp. You do not put a label on it saying “This is a covert ear piece.” Nor does the button on his collar have a tag reading “This is a concealed microphone.”
;-)
You could be right. But this bunch hasn’t otherwise shown that level of preparedness. Plus nobody else is wearing an earpiece. I may have missed that, of course. Or the sets are of many varieties. We’ll see if the next wave comes in at Arc in a better organized fashion.
It was just idle speculation. I think his various bits of metal ornamentation are probably more indicative of his powers actually. If he can hover ball-bearings in the air, metal buttons and ear-rings are probably useful backups in an emergency.
But, running with the idea anyway…
You do not issue the disposable pawns with the comms gear. Their job involves getting captured, which would instantly compromise the network. Only the top-tier folks get the shiny toys.
And to back up the line of thought, half-hearted though it is, you will note that Blondy, next to him, does have enough of her ear covered up, to conceal such a device. And both the Mafia-looking guy, by the tree, and the sinister hooded bloke, have head-wear, which could also be hiding communications equipment.
The actual A Team of this attack? Dave has been hinting, broadly, that there is a surprise in store for the folk thinking Arc is having it easy.
The good guys could be in trouble if that is Mandor, stepping out of the Courts of Chaos, in the final panel.
You, sir or madam, have excellent taste. Things would go downhill very very quickly.
*evokes raw Logrus* *leaves*
*sniff sniff*
I thoughts I smelt a panda? I never catches any though. They eats shoots and leaves.
For that reference, sir/madam, you win an Internet:
https://you-win-the-internet.com/?n=Yorp
Whoo hooo! Now all I have to do is figure out what to spend it on.
I’m always good* at giving advice on what to spend things on.
*at least, good for me
They could always tell him. “Hey, you just Mandor own business!”
Interesting explanation for Sydney’s Orbs. I’m at work and don’t have access to my books, but I’d say Named & Numbered (16 pt. armor, Locomotive Speed) individual powers as detailed.
@ DaveB:
You complain about supes not knowing how to hit but what you show Max doing there is overcomplicated.
The only reason it works is that Max has this almost insane level of reaction speed and normal speed. Worse is that she can’t control how much power that is being transferred, again the only reason that this doesn’t matter is her speed. A normal speed hit doing what the one you showed did would have lifted the guy of his feet reducing the amount of damage done. At least we know the guy is though since most people would have an arm that would have liquified due to the shockwave traveling through it.
The best thing would have been her landing either behind him or in such a way that you could see his right elbow just to the right of her torso and left hand on top and slightly to the front of the right shoulder. The speed of descending together with her strength would lock the guys body in place, at worst he’d start to crumple on the right side which would actually be a benefit for the next step. This allows for a more controlled application of force which is the next step. Grab his wrist with her right hand then stretch her arm (and due to grabbing the wrist his) while at the same time rotating to the right, pushing with her left hand. if pointing (with the right hand) straight ahead is 0 degrees, pointing straight to the right is 90 degrees then after 135 degrees tendons and ligaments will start to tear and at least the elbow joint will dislocate.
Bleh no edit so here is a bit more.
Also that windup takes to long, she already had a lock on his wrist and could have opened her fist to grab near his shoulder. Then she could have thrown him from that position without having to waste time with releasing and repositioning for that bitch slap from hell, worst case is that she’d end up with a detached arm.
Had she shoulder-thrown him, he’d still be intact and back in the fight after landing.
I’ve trained the move she made multiple times (thankfully never applied it in a real fight, because it’s absolutely brutal), and the dislocation/break shown was only because of her strength/speed. When an actual trained human applies it, the goal is catastrophic damage to the arteries & nerves, rendering the arm useless, and putting the individual into shock.
The move as shown would put someone out of the fight, I know that. The point I was trying to make is that Max wasn’t using her advantage of flight and the rapid descent to ground level to it’s fullest.
Check out DaveB‘s comments above. Maxima does not just want to defeat him, expediently, but also to send a strong message to those who witness it. Plus the TV watching public, who will see that he takes a long time recuperating in hospital.
Attacking from behind does not send a message of confidence. To the contrary, armchair warriors would speculate that she may have only won because of backstabbing. Regardless of how effective the death from above and behind attack may have been.
Plus the tactic you describe is very dependent on the target remaining in exactly the position you need. If he dodged out of the way, Maxima would be expending her energy in either ploughing into the ground, or trying to reverse course to avoid that.
Also being in front of him, she is positioning herself as a shield for Super Hiro, allowing him to disengage safely and promptly. Had her attack not been immediately incapacitating, and Maxima were not blocking, then Hiro would have to expose himself to a rear attack, as he departed.
That move is pretty close to what is taught for restraint in certain group homes and i have used it when taught adjudicated youth. The grab and everything is the same we just didnt punch. Just grab and torque. It ends things.
I first read that as “Just grab and tongue“. Yes, Sydney’s actions during the “bank robbery” may have strongly influenced such an interpretation.
Yorp saying that that move is dependent on the target staying as is bull since the one she did now requires more of that. What I suggested was using the force of the descent to pin him to prevent that, essentially it is using the bodies instinctive reaction to resist which means locking him in position between Max hand and the ground for a moment.
Further by pinning him like that she also allows Hiro to disengage and before she moves in for the disabling attack.
Last she attacked from behind so the arguments on that are void as well.
@Direalien:
It is in essence the same move, the difference is where you stop.
@Jee:
Misread your first comment. I wasn’t suggesting a shoulder throw until after wrecking the arm.
Or he is really though if he can still fight after Max ripped his tendons, tore ligaments and broke/dislocated the bones around the shoulder that he’d need to pacified by a blow to the head in addition to the damage of landing (either launched by punch or by throw).
All that said my complaint about speed I made in the OP is spurious. Twisting the arm would take at least as long (from descent to stuff not working anymore) as the punch she did now (from getting under the arm to the end of the punch).
The should not have released him for the bitchslap from hell stands, there are more targets then just the one Max took out. Currently the only resource that Max doesn’t have almost unlimited access too is time so even if it is only a fraction of a second that can be saved it would have been the better action.
Heck Max could have lifted him as projectile aimed at Breakpoint if she had grabbed him. Would most likely not be the end of Breakpoint but it would disrupt the cone of sound directed at Jiggawatt.
Depends on a number of factors, many of which aren’t easy to show in comic format.
For example, while Max may be very strong, her flight powers may not, and as far as we know, she isn’t superdense. Thus the amount of continuous downwards pressure that she can apply might be quite a bit less than her opponent’s lifting capability.
Unless she wanted to go with uncontrolled impact energy, she may be able to exert a greater force, in a more controlled fashion in the move that she does execute. Note that she is bracing his arm down as she strikes up, reducing the possibility of too much force being dissipated simply knocking him into the air. – In a fight involving physical supers, punching up is generally going to be better than striking downwards.
If nothing else, at the point of landing, her opponent might simply have been in a position where applying this move was easier than a different one.
Hardly, she was able to do a controlled decent to land on the ground. No amount of dodging would allow him to stop her doing that. She can then step and grab, wherever he is.* Your tactic, if he stepped out of her path, she could end up buried into the ground up to her neck.
She would be showing a pattern of only attacking from behind. All the more reason to break it and appear heroic. Albeit a very tough-fighting hero. But face-to-face and eye-to-eye.
Maxima is also playing to the future recruitment angle. If overemphasising victory by backstabbing, she will be putting off decent folks, from signing up to Archon.
* Note that she is also able to shift all her points out of flight. You keep forgetting that Maxima cannot do everything all at once. If she is flying at maximum speed, keeping her strength at maximum for the impact, just how little will she have left to maintain her defence? Probably nothing.
Or leave any reserve for super-reactions to dodge incoming attacks which are not bothered by her toughness, such as magical attacks? Something she would also need, in order to react fast enough to avoid hitting the ground like an avalanche, if he did dodge.
And hitting the bad guy, or the ground, with the kind of force needed to take out the villain, would also hurt a non-maximum defence Maxima just as badly. Super Hiro is tougher than the minimised defence she would have and was still getting beaten up. Never forget the ‘equal and opposite reaction’ when using physical attacks.
The route Dave has taken allows her to keep strong defences up, whilst flying in at full speed. Land, then shift her powers to melee fighting, but still maintaining full protection for both herself and Super Hiro. Not to mention her fists.
And your claim is still rubbish since you claim that a step or two to the left suddenly makes him capable of evading. If he can evade that he can evade what happened now and get the same result.
In fact landing and at the same time putting a hand (very firmly) on his shoulder lessens the chance he can evade.
Your arguments are becoming weaker. You are resorting to distorting my statements and claiming I said things which I did not. Plus you are ignoring things which I actually did say. As such it is getting less and less productive in continuing this debate. However, I shall persist in this instance.
This line is confused. Contextually it only makes sense if it is read as “you claim that a step or two to the left suddenly makes him incapable of evading”. So I shall assume you made a typo, and continue on that basis.
This is not what I claimed, nor is it necessarily true. He is capable of evading either attack.
What I was talking about was the consequences of failure. If he evades a punch, grab or the like, there is little. Another attempt can be made. On the other paw, if he evades a death-from-above charge, finding herself buried up to the neck is a severe consequence, that can loose a fight.
Or, in this case, cause enough of a delay that a team-mate could die.
This is a lie. I did not say “she didn’t attack from behind”. Rather I conceded that she had, by saying:
.
The more pertinent retort was from DaveB, mind. Maxima is a soldier and winning is more important than image. Which is wholly consistent with her past history with Arianna. Clearly I was reading more into her motivations than I should have, as regards the public relations side.
The rest of my arguments, however, I remain comfortable are reasonable.
I also note you completely ignored my comments about Maxima being unable to keep her stats high in all areas. Her lack of defence and reaction speed would make your suggested tactic foolish in the extreme. If it did not go exactly as planned, she would be vulnerable to any counter-attack he made.
Likewise attack from any of the numerous other opponents she is fighting. Including the two plotting against her on this page, the hooded guy and the gangster-looking bloke by the tree. If anybody strong struck, whilst she was exposed by your suggested tactics, she would be overwhelmed on their first strike!
Don’t forget Maxima is a soldier, not a Paladin. In her mind, winning a fight decisively is Job 1, leave the PR to Arianna. It might be a bit short sighted, but maybe that’s a role she’ll come around to.
Dave has it right. I do sport fighting on top of the stuff i mentioned earlier. If i am serious (And this despite the humor of the comic is deadly serious in this fight) I put the person down as quickly as i can. Whether it was a student attacking me or someone else or numerous other examples from military days to the fighting i do today.
This attitude also shows through her instructions to Math and Dabbler: just put them down and quit playing around. If you’re too evenly matched to easily do that, hand them off to someone who can.
Besides her working fast and dirty has advantages in that it reduces overall injuries, especially on her team and among civilians.
Yup yup. I was trying to enhance my argument with a bit of spin. It wobbled and fell.
I was trying to attach an overly honourable motive, where it appears it did not exist. As regards expediency in battle though, I am all for it, and always have been. Take down your opponent as fast as you can.
Just not forgetting the other tactical considerations, necessitated by current battlefield conditions, in the rush to do that.
Can i like these comments? I want to like them, Consider them LIKED cause…. YES!!!!
what max does is a basic self defence move. Anyone taught how to fight, is taught that the joints are the weakest part. If max really wanted to she could have just pointed and shot his head off but she chose to dislocate his shoulder and chuck him out of play ( i think there should have been a banner saying ” and its a fly ball into left field ” ) but it doesn’t look like there was room.
If we think about it most of these people have means to immediately kill their opponent and those are the good guys. Because they are the good guys they are trying to hold their punches. after all if your playfighting a 5 year old you don’t all out punch or throw him do you? i sure as hell wouldn’t.
“( i think there should have been a banner saying ” and its a fly ball into left field ” )”
Yeah…I was thinking something like that myself. In the previous panel, Dave shows “windup” made me start thinking he was going to follow up with “and there’s the pitch.” But I think your idea would have been more fitting than mine.
I would’ve said something along the line as “And Maxima sends a Pop Fly along the foul line!”
how would she know if he has a kid? :D
Comic book time, talk is a free action.
In real time, that windup would not have taken longer than half a second. As stunned as he is from that hit, that’s more than enough time
Her move is overcomplicated, and than you come up with a full paragraph worth of text of what would be easier?
All she has to do is land next to him, grab his arm, and punch at the right spot.
The nerve bundle there ensures that he’s stunned even if it was at normal speed (vs a normal human), which allows for an easy knockout follow up.
You also have to remember that this is a comic. Some suspention of disbelief is required for the cool scenes (this is one of them)
Full since it is an exhaustive description. If you want short I can give you that.
Place left hand on right shoulder, grab right wrist with right hand and mangle the arm.
Your other comment about that 1/2 a second forgets a very important point. That means she just wasted 1/2 a second on a foe that she could have used on one of the others on the battlefield.
Max’s easiest path would have been,
Swoop in and pick up mr. Plate,
fly him him to the collection point,
while slapping him silly.
A 10 second max time frame.
Max didn’t want to spend that long out of overwatch position. Breastplate Boy is out and she’s back where she can watch developments.
Yea, 10 seconds is a lot in circumstances like this. Maxima holds a pivotal position in this fight. Most battlefields will have units of troops probing each other, and pressing home the attack when they find a vulnerability. With some in key positions, such as guarding the flank, or holding the centre.
In this case, Maxima has the strength of an entire unit, and is keeping whole elements of the enemy force engaged, by her mere presence. If she is absent from her critical role for too long, that could be exploited to devastating effect!
Um…assuming he doesn’t do something to prevent that punch. Plus, that kind of pressure point targeting is actually not as widespread as you’d think–many martial arts don’t have any formal methods to specifically target pressure points (possibly because they were developed for use against people in armor).
Based on my admittedly incomplete knowledge, this strike seems to be valid–she might have taken advantage of greater strength, but it’s a strike that would end the fight, without have a serious risk of killing him if she overdoes it. Crippling him for life, yes. Killing him…not so much.
There may not be specific techniques about it, but most martial arts do know about pressure points. If only because you stumble acros them while sparring (that’s how I learned about the Plexus Solaris. Nasty spot to get kicked).
And there’s not much that can be done to prevent such a punch, if your opponent has grabbed that arm (which Maxima has). Remember she has super strenght and speed, so it only takes a split second to hit him. Even if he’d be strong enough to jank his arm down and block it, he wouldn’t have time to
Never trust nerv punches and pinches. They are usefull,when they work and normaly hurts like hell, but they are not as reliable as destroying someones humerus or joint locking them. oh, and don’t compleatly trust jointlocks, there are always someone with odd anotomy it will not work on
That’s why she punched hard enough to dislodge his shoulder
By the way, what happened to the intelligence team, who were hiding in a SEP field, when the restaurant they were in exploded?
They were never on the restaurants roof in the first place.
A better guess would be the building shown in the 5th panel.
Yea, that was a detail which was never shown in-comic, but DaveB did confirm that Arc-Light had been moved to the roof of another building, not the one they had been eating in.
This could be confirmed by the lack of a fight going on around them, in the scene that they were depicted in. As we knew that Maxima and a lot of villains were on or above the roof of the steakhouse, at the time.
I’m betting Sydney will still be effective against the enemy even after the shiny thing appears! :)
What would be funny is if their plan backfired and Sydney used whatever they tried to use to distract her to defeat them.
Sydney: Wow, a [insert name of shiny thing here]! I bet you didn’t know it could do [Rut, roh, Raggy]!”
Green Haired Guy: [Gulp] Uh, no. You wouldn’t consider just handing that back to us, would you?
Sydney: Sure, no problem. I’ll consider it[acts as if she’s going to do so before snatching it back when they go to reach for it]… in say ten to fifteen years or whenever it is the judge finally lets you out. Now say good night, Gracie.
I think it’s funny that this guy is worried about Hiro and Halo, when it’s Maxima who just destroyed BMP Man (he’s had enough panel time he should have a real name by now, BTW).
Hiro seemed to be fairly equally matched with BMP Man, with both of them bloodied. Maxima could have stood in the sonic beam just as easily as Hiro. Hell, she could have done to Breakpoint what she did to BMP Man and left Hiro to his slugfest. She started well up in the air, and although there’s no clock running the sense of time conveyed to me is that even before Hiro could finish his sentence she pulled off her destruction of BMP Man’s shoulder maneuver. It appears as though Maxima vs. 30 supervillains should be about a 60 second fight, with 2 seconds between utter take-downs. Look at her, she’s not even injured despite a huge amount of beams and other crap thrown her way, she may have never even been hit! And she doesn’t appear to be winded at all, why shouldn’t she just mop up the rest of these clowns and call it a day?
And Halo? Really? She’s been hiding in her force field the whole time. Sure, that hasn’t stopped her from contributing, but she isn’t nearly the threat the rest of the team are. She will be quite the threat once she is trained up and not under orders to play it low key, but right now she’s just adding another target and then doing what she can with Lighthook. Which appears to be quite a lot.
Sure, she took out Shadow Crushednuts, but that scene played for laughs more than it played for “Sydney is a bad ass.” To me, at least. She used an “I’m blind!” trick no one should fall for and then purposely left her back to her opponent, which is utterly stupid even if you are the superior combatant, which she isn’t. And then didn’t even use her orbs powers other than to keep any help out!, just used her ability to control their movement. Which was a fine way to show the readers that she can do this, I guess, but she still made a lot of mistakes and was still shown to be the winner.
Her take-down of Lee Press on Claws was also played more for comedic effect than to show what a bad ass she is. After all the guy, a supposed supervillain, passed out from seeing his own blood… Yeah, that’s a 30 point weakness in the Champions system, because your character is going to be spending the majority of all combat unconscious, “invulnerable skin” or not.
Hiro and Halo are targets over Maxi because, well, seriously doubt that there is anyone on the bad team who could do anything to her
Halo is also a target because she is a rookie recruit and seemingly an easy target: if they manage to take her down, that would be a huge PR hit to Archon
except they decided to switch to distract her not take her out.
That doesn’t change my incredulity. The tactic of “Let’s ignore the flying bitch who can take any one of us out in 2 seconds flat, instead we’ll concentrate on the guys we might have a chance to hurt” doesn’t seem like a winning strategy to me. Am I alone here?
I mean, really… Maxima flew up in the air straight off and drew all kinds of ranged power attacks. And that was right after the attack occurred. It appears as though none of them hit (if they are lucky, they’ll roll a 20, or some such as the ending quip), or if they did hit they did absolutely no damage because we’ve got no bleeding on Maxima. And still the supervillain leaders(?) call for attacks on the junior members of the team? Why? If you can’t beat Maxima you can’t win. If you can kill everyone else except Maxima you may field a Pyrrhic victory as your days will be numbered. Perhaps getting a couple of kills will deflate the ARC-SWAT street cred, but since they are just now establishing it all the villains are accomplishing is to increase it. But right now their ability to kill anyone is in heavy doubt, since all they have managed is superficial wounds to Hiro, Halo, Dabbler, Heatwave, and Jiggawatt. Oh, and they inconvenienced Achilles. Accidentally.
I don’t think outright winning is their goal, at least not of the smarter ones by now. Perhaps their goal right now is to break Max’s spirit by taking down her team. It’ll make her angry and perhaps do something even more reckless than cripple Armour Boy/Juggernaut (yes, he does remind me of Xavier’s brother), and show that supers are more a force to be feared than respected.
Agreed, at the very start, Mr. Funny-Hair Muscles was all about proving the attackers stronger than the Archon members, when they were all “Challenge accepted”. Then Max proved a better leader and much stronger, and other Archons showed they could hold their own, even the new recruit Halo, so unless these guys are so single-minded that winning is the only thing on their minds (and I admit, it is a distinct possibility), they have plans within plans, just like Max admitted to Dabbler.
Huh, come to think of it, that would be a strange sight: Dabbler aroused because of complex supervillains. On stairs.
Agreed: if you can’t beat someone, break them, or force them to do something that will forever taint them in the eyes of the public
Remember a few pages ago? Hex definitely hit Max (with four of her blaster gizmos), it just didn’t do anything other than get her attention.
Hmm who thinks the new pip in her com ball will come into play now?
I think it turns her invis, while her double projection can go about and distract even more. This will let her move to really pull a badger attack on someone not expecting it.
Though I would love to see her do a sneak “Thousand years of pain no-jutsu attack” ie the Kancho with her tentacle on someone standing there looking invul and cool (presence attacking?)
I am offended by this comic. those of us with ADD and ADHD are not so … ooh something shiney.
And even some of those who are ooh shiney can focus on one shiney thing at a time or multitask.
Seriously she made it through diving school despite all the ooh shineys.
and Scuba training
I said diving school (like scuba diving) not driving school (like driving a car).
You can also drive schools of shiny fish.
It is harder to teach them to drive though. Also you are less likely to find mysterious artefacts, whilst learning how to drive. Although if you could teach fish how to talk, then they might be able to tell you where treasure is hidden?
You have to be careful though. They might just tell you about the plastic treasure chest, hidden in the fish tank.
But wouldn’t driving schools of fish in search of underwater treasure, whilst figuring out how to get them to handle a three-point turn, and the complexities involved if they need to do hand signals, be just a bit distracting, from whatever point was originally made?
Not counting the 15 stitches that were required
I have ADD but was able to do quite well in any subject that interested me. Most people with it can focus on things that interest them such as Sydney’s encyclopedic knowledge of comics and sci-fi. She has shown in the “Bank Robbery” she can effectively focus on an opponent and woe be unto him/her I seriously doubt something “shiny” will save their ass.
I collect shiny things.
BTW broken bits of mirror are a lot less sharp/dangerous than you might expect.
But still pritty sharp/dangerous?
Also collect non-shiny things.
Just today I found a blue and black stripy sock-like thing by a parking lot, on closer inspection it was not a sock because it has a hole in each end.
It is now keeping my right forearm warm.
Idk why, I just wanted to share my new discovery/ shiny-that-isn’t-actually-reflective.
none of my shinys are shiny unless they put on polished armor for a ren-fen but they normally dress to blend in….. yes the tiaras tend to shine but they aren’t MY shinys your highness.
I found something shiney!
https://shiniez.deviantart.com/art/yknow-when-you-see-something-shiny-285488786
Not exactly safe for work…
So Sydney’s weakness is not just mittens afterall…
…but will “just something shiny” work? I mean, except against Dabbler??
If the enemy has a Dazzler/Jubilee equivalent, that might keep Halo simply too confused to be effective. When you’ve got the enemy outnumbered, trading one of your team member’s turns for one of their team member’s turns is a good move.
so you say they should have hex talk to here and show off the BBs
I think part of the reason Supeman wasn’t a particularly skilled fighter in the DCAU was so he wouldn’t just dominate every opponent and render the other heroes redundant. And pad fights out/increase drama.
super man was raised in the midwest by farmers he doesn’t know how to fight becouse that wasn’t something he or his family ever needed to know. sure he has a basic knowledge and as a hero he has been in several but he was never trained in anything more than basic street brawling. since he is immune to damage he has never needed any other training.
it isn’t hard to be a hero when you’re immune to almost everything except some major hocus pocus and a little green asteroid.
And the Kryptonian martial arts stories (and training from Batman) take place after he’s been a hero for a while – Basically, it’s him realizing that he does occasionally go up against people who can take a punch from him, so he needs to learn to throw a good punch.
DCAU all takes place within a few years of him becoming a hero, so he hasn’t had that training. It’s actions like the last battle against Darkseid that make him decide he needs to study – and that’s the end of the series.
Also, it’s moments like this where I feel very uneasy about Maxima. I mean, who could stop her?
I am betting the military wondered the same thing.
That’s probably why they put her in charge, to keep her too busy managing all these vivid personalities on her team to have time to get up to anything else. Idle hands and all that…
Bruce Wayne spent an insane amount of money on a little green rock to guard against just that scenario.
Maybe Max has a weakness to something that could be used against her, like a shellfish allergy.
“She’s coming this way. Prepare the shrimp cannon!”
We know she can be hit by a surprise attack.
I thought for a second you were going to reference this one
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/720
Poor Max just went catatonic for awhile there.
I think this is the most solidly landed blow we’ve seen Maxima take:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/251
And she probably wasn’t surprised, just not feeling in any way threatened and not bothering to defend herself. It’s probably pretty easy to get out of the habit of dodging the fumbled 9″ chef’s knife when you can have it land point first on your bare foot and not feel a thing. And look at Achilles! He has obviously spent a decent amount of time training himself to block what would be deadly attacks to a normal human with his eyeball!
Her glasses being removed suggests that she saw the blow coming and casually used super reflexes to take them off.
Her super-reflexes didn’t save her from having her hat commandeered by Halo. :-P
That was where Sydney went from stranger to irritating little sister.
I’m reminded of this ERB of Superman vs Goku
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MW9Nrg_kZU
I was thinking more this but ya ERB is cool to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA
In a 1-on-1? Someone who has at least two abilities equal to one of hers being maxed? Remember to boost a stat she has to drain the others. So against a 9+ speedy powerhouse she would have to either match them and lose on her defense…meaning whoever lands a hit first wins, or boost defense but lose out on speed or power…giving them a chance to whittle her down.
However two caveats…none of the baddies know about the “Min” that goes with her “Max”…and we haven’t even seen anyone that matches her at her “balanced” level yet.
Now if they all ganged up on her…she’d probably still win because villains are notoriously bad at cooperation and tactics.
All that energy she uses, I bet she has to eat a lot… and breathe. And I wonder how she flies, is she pushing against gravity, her surroundings, earths magnetic field or the fabric of reality?
Dabbler
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/989
Especially when the rest of the team is helping
Batman
(o.o @ the last panel) When did Jem join Team Evil?
no no thats one of the misfits jem had a star over that eye hahahahahahaha
Not sure if anyone’s said it but Hiro looks…frightening with the bruises/blood forming a goatee and mustache
So this strip mentions osmehting about the Scoville name. Will the ocmic ever talk about Sydney’s dad?
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/194
We know that he is called Sydney Schoville. Sydney (Jnr) shielded both her parents from the burden of knowing she had super powers. And we can guess that he is the one who first got her interested in comics. He seems confident enough of her capabilities, not to be fixating on the fact that she might get killed.
I think you are refering to the living up to the Scoville name. Scoville is the unit used to measure the spicyness/heat of a pepper.
Hiro, Hiro, Hiro… do you really want Maxima to go all out during sparring sessions?
Wow, Maxima punched him right beneath his broken bone tattoo!
Actually, if you look at the 2nd and 4th panel, it appears she punched him so hard that it gave him a temporary tattoo depicting a dislocated bone. And knocked his mask off as well.
At least, that’s my interpretation of it. =OP
Actually it’s not a broken bone.
Just dislodged.
The muscles and ligamends keeping the bones tougether though, those will have teard
“…will have teard.”
Unless his ligaments & tendons are like Spiderman’s, perhaps. Spidey’s connective tissues are approximately 40 *times* more flexible & sturdy than a non-altered human’s. That’s a major factor for his high agility rating.
So wait a second. You’re telling me that the military colonel and ardent feminists most common and utilized move in a combat situation, is an UnHoly Bitchslap!?
Holy shit that’s awesome! Maxima now has a catchphrase! Everytime she winds up to backhand she had to shout like a Baptist revival: “OH LAWD! MAKE MY PIMP HAND STRONG!”
Oh god even better, she now has a superhero name and/or a Nickname!
Maxima “The Pimp Hand of God” Leander!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_zN5Lh2yQ
Now you know why it is called ArcSWAT.
As a group, they do seem to like to see how far they can make a brick fly. I wonder if there’s a pool on that? Of course Max wins it both altitude and distance this time.
Well, I think it makes sense that Superman would never have studied martial arts. Let’s break it down.
When you get down to it, there are two basic styles of martial arts: hard and soft. Hard would be things like Boxing or Karate. We’ll get to those in a sec. Soft is things like judo. In other words, ‘Soft’ martial arts are designed to allow weaker people to use an opponent’s strength against them. Since Superman could judo flip a tank into the upper atmosphere, it is probably best that he doesn’t try and do things like that to people, especially since he already complains about having to basically walk around with kid gloves, so he doesn’t damage all the people who (to him) might as well be made of tissue paper, just by shaking their hands. So ‘soft’ martial arts aren’t going to be much use for him.
‘Hard’ martial arts, on the other hand, are basically designed around two things: taking/avoiding hits, and destroying the person in front of you. Invulnerability means you don’t need to worry about the ‘taking/avoiding’ hits thing, since you can take a missile to the face and not mess up your hair. As for destroying the person in front of you, Superman is one of these “I don’t kill” heroes, so he constantly has to limit how much force he can employ against his most common enemies: humans with or without powers backing them up. Against these foes, usually he just has to stand there and they hurt themselves when they try to hit him. He can easily backhand someone and send them flying across a room, so learning techniques to destroy his opponent aren’t that useful.
And forget grappling techniques, either hard (pins) or soft (submissions). When you’re superfast and superstrong, typically all you got to do is run up and hug them lightly, and they’ll be unable to resist or escape.
The next point: his opponents. Batman knows martial arts because Batman’s opponents are ‘on his level’; they’re typically humans with low or no powers, and he’s also a normal human with gadgets. Superman is like taking a level 90 WoW character, and going hunting in the starting zones. He could one-shot everyone if he wanted to. You don’t need martial arts for this level of opponent, since a finger-flick would do.
Third point, training. Where would Superman go to train in any form of martial arts? Would he go as Superman or Clark Kent. If he goes as Superman, then it would be a paparazzi nightmare, since he is instantly recognizable. And once people know there is someone squishy that Superman cares about, those people tend to get used as hostages (see: Lois Lane). So say he goes as Clark Kent. The moment someone tries to hit him in a spar and breaks their hand, the jig is going to be up. Afterall, Superman has that invulnerability thing going on, and he isn’t trained in rolling with punches to reduce the impact to the person hitting him.
But say he finds a place to train, who is he going to train against, since any ‘normal’ martial arts master will break himself in the first spar? The Justice League probably has some facilities, but there are only two members of the core Justice League that display a high level of martial arts: Batman (see above) and Wonder Woman (warrior cultures tend to focus on martial training). However, both their martial arts are more suited to the ‘break them and leave them bleeding in the gutter or dead’ style, since their training was (respectively) to take on groups of humans and leave them bloodied and broken with extreme prejudice, or dealing with magical/mystical threats, because Ares is a dick. Problem is, both those styles, when applied to Superman’s normal opponents, is massive overkill.
Now, there ARE some times when Superman finds someone he can have an actual, honest to goodness all-out brawl with. These typically involve high-level supers from ‘out of town’ (so to speak) coming and picking a fight with him. But these fights are memorable because they’re so few and far between. For the most part, he deals with humans (hold back) and giant robots/constructs (just fly through them). Even if he knew some kind of martial arts, using it in actual combat the few times he needs it would be like someone who goes to the gym for MMO 3x a week trying to go on the Ultimate Fighter. The fighters on Ultimate Fighter are as good as they are because they do actual live training, and actual fights. The reason Batman is so good is because he has tons of practice by now. Superman faces a challenge like Doomsday once every twenty-something story arcs, maybe every ten or fifteen? Even if he was trained, he’d be too rusty to use anything in actual combat.
Basically, everything about Superman, from his powerset to his opponents to his ethics makes practicing martial arts unnecessary, at best.
In the most common martial arts belt grading system, the most deadly individuals are given a belt that clearly marks them out as being a danger to everybody. As such their belt is the symbolic colour of death.
You need to know a bit of cultural background to understand that though, because it is not black, as most westerners would think. Because we are talking about the orient. Where white is the colour associated with funerals.
An untrained person, on the dōjō floor is deadly, because of their ignorance. They can kill a skilled martial arts practitioner by accident, due to their unpredictability. So the white belt is not a sign of ‘trainee,’ it is a warning ‘take care – deadly’.
Likewise it is also the colour used for the very highest grade of belt (for those systems which support that). Somebody who is skilled enough that they can kill anybody who so much as irritates them.
An untrained Super Man would be even more deadly than an untrained human. First he needs to master his own capabilities, and learn how to handle delicate humans carefully, so that he does not break them. That is something martial arts training teaches, right from the beginning. For obvious reasons.
This seems odd. We’re talking about Asian martial arts, right? Karate, various animal styles, drunken boxing, muay thai, and a whole lot more than I can recall off the top of my head? Except over there, the color of death and/or mourning is white.
That is the point Yorp was making. The novice wears the colour of death in the training area.
It serves as a visual sign “Warning! This person does not know what they are doing!”
Thus the other members know that they are likely to do unpredictable, dangerous things with little control, and react accordingly.
In brief, the ‘Inspector Clouseau Effect’.
Inspector Clouseau, Inspector Gadget, Agent Smart, Captain Tyler, Detective Mihoshi, Darkwing Duck, Halo, etc…
Are you the PG of worm fame?
Well except we know that Superman HAS studied martial arts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA
Clark Kent. And he would just have to use his wits to cover for any such problem, and learn fast. Or he could use a few of the learning crystals in his Fortress of Solitude and master the Kryptonian martial arts.
The point is though that he could practice it a safe environment, with people who were expert at ensuring that beginners did not hurt people accidentally. He always plays Clark as being very weak, and does not have the ego problems which go with that. So, in playing safe and significantly reducing his capabilities below an average human, he could learn slowly and carefully.
Gradually increasing his apparent strength and capability, to keep in line with the training and to ensure that he was pushing himself hard enough to learn, but not so hard as to give away his secrets. Learning how to roll with a punch would be an early, vital thing that he need master, as you say.
or just spar with wonder woman- who is a master, and his near equal in physical terms
they have had several sparring montages in the past
He will train in a weak Kryptonite field. This effects no one but him, so he’ll be weakened enough that he can be trained by skilled martial arts trainers who are mere humans. And if he arranges things right (and he’s supposed to be a genius), he’ll do it as Clark Kent so that he doesn’t even raise an eyebrow. Rig the dojo, sign up for lessons, and he’s just one more middle aged man looking to stay fit and learn some martial arts.
One he’s good he can step things up, and use his wealth (crushing a few chunks of coal into diamonds should do) to either hire better trainers or take a sabbatical from the Daily Galaxy or whatever they are calling it these days to go study under masters all around the world. Slip his Kryptonite plates into the dojos when he joins, and remove them (wearing his lead suit, then placing them in a lead lines briefcase) when he moves on to the next teacher.
He’d lose the advantage of his super speed to help him become accomplished faster than any human could hope, but he’ll still have the advantage that when he leaves the dojo for the day his super metabolism will kick back in and he’ll instantly be cured of any injuries and sore muscles.
Of course his best bet would be to find another Kryptonian (or equivalently powered person) who is a highly accomplished martial arts practitioner and trainer (there are plenty of good martial artists who are not good trainers). Then he can remain super and go into a super speed, no rest needed training cycle sure to get him a few black belts within a few months rather than years. But I’m not sure anyone like that exists.
Superman would have to train in Martial arts in order to be able to properly pull his punches, so he can knock Lex Luthor out without spreading his liquified remains across half the planet.
I’d agree, but that appears to be a superpower granted to Superman without any explanation. Much like most of the other powers Superman had in the Golden Age (when his super-breath could extinguish stars and his heat vision could re-ignite them). Except that the power to hit humans and not kill them appears to be fairly ubiquitous.
The best training I can think of for Superman is Pro-Wrestling actually. Part of the training is to hold back so you don’t seriously hurt your opponent and give a better show. The reason here is simple, the moves are either far more harmless than they look (Full Nelson Sitting Bomb) or they’re devastating when you use full force (Piledriver). The first one is obvious here, Superman can make it hurt but with the training hold back just enough not to cause serious damage, and the second one would provide quick knockouts without serious injury if he’s still holding back.
You train in anything physical growing up to better control your body. With my wrestling background, I can break someone’s neck. I know how, I have the capabilities. I can kill just about anyone I wish just using a normal Olympic sport. But since I know how, I also know how not to. And that’s why Supes would study martial arts.
Actually supes has some training in boxing from Mohamad Ali.
It wasin 1 of dc’s giant comic books from the late 70s, early 80s.
Basics is evilspace empire said supes and ali would fight to see who would face their champ.
They retreat to a hidden time hole and ali trains him under red sunlight for 2 weeks ( i think) befor they are caught.
In fight again under red sunlight ali whoops supes butt and must now face empires champ.
Ali wins,while supes disables alien fleet alis well.
I like the way that was handled. It would have been incomprehensible for Ali to have lost. Even against Super Man!
He was the single most popular sportsman in my peer group. Bear in mind that I grew up in South Africa, during the height of Apartheid. So that is really saying something. Ex-pat English or Afrikaner kid, we all considered Ali to be the best.
There is no way that Super Man would compromise such an iconic and influential role-model!
3 pages in one week? God, we’re getting spoiled! PLEASE DONT STOP! Honestly, this is one of my favorite webcomics, and if you told me it was somehow going to live-action I’d probably have a heart attack, until realizing casting it would be nigh-impossible.
Aaaand..we just saw bad guy # 29 and #30.
So…seriously, what the hell? You’ve just seen YOUR ENTIRE TEAM wiped out, and you’re going “no, seriously, it’s just the two of us, and the mastermind…well. Masterminds don’t do much good in jail, right?
So, having seen their entire team knocked out, and pretty much without taking out the major superhero powerhouses, these two–the last two to have avoided being engaged and neutralized–still think they can win.
That is either very scary, or very, very stupid. Me, I’d be looking for ways to escape at this point, not pick any further fights.
Oh, and Dave? Wrap it up–you’ve introduced your main characters, shown their weaknesses, and essentially completed the introduction. If you drive this fight on for even two or three more pages, you’re going to start taking screen time away from the bad guys. The fight has been good fun, but now you need to get into the next stage of the comic: introducing the opposition.
My suggestion: just have these two new guys (plus the mastermind) intervene on behalf of Breakpoint (and have Jabberwocky finish off Math), and then have all five of the survivors escape so you can use them as recurring villains. They’ve got the information they came for, and they’ve pretty much erased any possibility of competition from any rival gangs of supers–as far as they’re concerned, this fight was a success, and ARCHON has dealt with most of their potential rivals. This sets up this group of bad guys as completely ruthless, highly practical, and very, very dangerous, as they’re willing to maneuver to use ARCHON to create power vacuums that they can then exploit. The fact that they can handle two main characters with such apparent ease, without even having to get their full number involved, suggests that they’ll be a significant handful for any ARCHON team to deal with…and the fact that they could muster so many bad guys so quickly suggests considerable intelligence-gathering and planning ability on their part.
You mentioned wanting to run a comic based around ARC-LIGHT? You may have just found some of your eventual prime opponents.
What makes you think there are exactly 30 guys?
Maxima estimated, based on seeing the parking lot for half a second, such a number.
And this isn’t an introduction fight. This is simply a comic book battle royal. A very good one
Yup. I think we have only had a lone voice calling for a wrap up. Everybody else is fine with the way Dave is pacing it and the direction he is taking it. And the remaining guys know their own capability. They have sent the pawns in, to test the enemy’s capabilities. If they press on now, we know it is because they have significant power.
Dave knows who these guys are, why they are here, and what is motivating them. That is the important angle for him to consider. Not the false impressions we may have of the situation. So long as, when we know the whole story,* and do a later re-read, we can go “oh yea, that is why they were behaving like that.”
I know I am not the only one who is content in measuring the fight by how many Christmases it extends over, should Dave feel the story demands it. And that is speaking as somebody who is just as interested in the in-between the fighting aspects as Dave is.
The character development is proceeding apace, we will get to see the big bad guys flexing their muscles yet. And I still want to see the guy with absolutely huge arms, from the roof top, doing his bit. Plus the giant from the car park scene. Both of whom are noticeable by their absence.
* Bear in mind that DaveB has revealed that we will get to find out some of it by the end of the fight. But even then it will be limited to what the protagonists find out. There will be other aspects that even they will not get to know.
I am quite happy for us to gradually peel back the onion layers, over the years, to get the full story. In good time.
You know, I have to wonder, walking around in that shield, is Sydney gonna run out of air? I mean, it’s an absolute forcefield wouldn’t it block air circulation?
It seems to have magical “danger detection” allowing it to discern between harmful/nonharmful levels of light and sound. It wouldn’t surprise me if it can manage the same for air filtration.
I’d be much more concerned for her if she were using the ball to go diving (does it actually keep water out? Who knows!) or to defend against poison gas. At that point, assuming it does keep the nonbreathables out, it might shut down regular air flow.
But this question does remind me of Shadowcat, and the limit (her own breath) to how long she can stay phased inside something solid. It is possible that Halo has to drop her shield for a few seconds every five or ten minutes.
We know that, when flying, Sydney had the shield reduced to a small aerodynamic bubble. Which clearly did not have much air capacity. The flight appeared to be fairly protracted, and Sydney appeared to be hyperventilating and giddy with joy.
Had her air been gradually running out, I think she would have noticed the stuffy air by the end of it. But no comment was made. Likewise she has been experimenting with the orbs for months. She will easily have picked up if the air supply was limited. As such, not knowing how long their flight was going to be, I would have expected her to make a big bubble, to give her enough air to keep going. Yet she did not.
So everything goes to support your contention. The shield probably does let safe amounts of air in. Not so much that she got battered by airflow, in flight. Not so little as to cause breathing problems.
The water situation is an interesting twist, that I had not considered before though. Possibly it would filter safe levels of oxygen, and other gasses, out of the water, just like a fishes gills do? Or maybe that goes a bit beyond the capability of even the orbs.
One slight hint that we have is that the orbs were found underwater. Perhaps the previous user found out, the hard way, that air supply below the surface, is strictly limited?
It’s not at all unreasonable that the force field orb can pull a breathable air mixture out of any medium Halo might be passing through with the proper elements present. How many sci-fi books have you read where the hero goes for a swim with just a mouth held O2 extractor in his mouth? For me it’s at least three from different authors. And that would mean drawing O2 from H2O, and to avoid oxygen poisoning also drawing CO2 from dissolved CO2 in the water, to make an O2/CO2 mixture which approximated the O2/N2 mixture we breath. I suppose of there was enough nitrates in the water due to farm soil erosion or however else nitrogen gets into the water, that could be scavenged as well.
In any event, the orbs are super-science even compared to that remarkable piece of technology.
I can’t remember if the novel Cyborg, which was the book upon which the TV series The Six Million Dollar Man was based, used the same thing, and that was a ’70s novel with much lower tech than the show even (the eye was a camera, not a near-magical telephoto lens that also acted like an eye, for example). I don’t think so, though. I think he carried a bare bones scuba mask and air tank in the hollow of one of his legs instead of a super-science solution.
Exactly I think as long as there the necessary elements for life and sensory input the shield is a filter keeping things at a safe level. However outside of where those exist, it is like a bubble. It can keep the necessary elements in but it cannot produce more. It cannot produce oxygen, light, and heat where none exist. In space, she would only have the air in her shield from when she formed it. In a blizzard it’d only be as warm inside as where she of made it. In a cave it’s be as dark in the cave inside the shield. Now if another orb, say the green or the purple one has a life support function at least air could sustain her for a while.
They might be upgrades on the orbs
Water to air filtration can be an upgrade.
Dave
I think that your plan to make each of the characters (not just main characters, but also the minor ones, too) different enough for at least their own mini-series is a good plan. I am especially excited to hear that you want to do spinoff series(es).
To be honest, given what you’ve said in the past, I’d think you’d be looking at, basically, one series per ARC-SWAT team, with another about ARC-LIGHT. Make each series about different characters, and with a different flavor, yes, but also think about what each series would show about ARCHON and its leaders. For instance, this series (which, I believe, focuses on Team 1) could show Max as a strong, forceful, and charismatic leader…while another series might show that Team 2, based 3000 miles away, on the other side of the country, sees her as much more of a disciplinarian, with strong tendencies towards arrogance and the over-reliance on her own personal power to push through to victory. A third team, charged with, say, handling threats that arise outside of North America, might see her as basically being only a few steps short of a pencil-pushing bureaucrat, as she rarely has time to leave her area of responsibility, and support the kind of long-term missions and deployments that Team 3 has to undergo.
Then you add the series about ARC-LIGHT, which cares a lot less about Max and the field teams, and usually views them as something of a blunt instrument (as you said, it would be a very different series), whether that’s true or not. And then, potentially, you could have yet another strip, or even series of strips, that focus around how the general populace, including non-aligned supers, are dealing with ARCHON and the sudden emergence of super-villains in their midst. If you can get some good planning going, you can start to cross-link the strips, so that what happens in one affects the others (or not), and shows different aspects of the world as it comes to grips with the sudden change. Use the multiple different strips to relate not just the different aspects of life with ARCHON, but also the different perspectives of how ARCHON members see each other–for instance, it’s unlikely that Hiro has a very high opinion of Dabbler, and he probably is just as glad they’re on different teams (I think). So if there’s a strip with Hiro and Team 2, you might expect them to be everything Team 1 is not–professional, methodical, almost surgically precise, etc. Such a team might not be as fast-acting as Team 1, but they would still get the job done, and generally with even less collateral damage (but just as much style)…and their perspective on how the screwier members of Team 1 act would help you better explain ARCHON, its culture, and its development, and some of the challenges it might face, without having to do a lot of tedious exposition.
Planned right, you could, potentially, collate collections of these strips into future comic books or visual novels, which could then be sold for a potentially larger or more regular income.
I have noticed, over decades of reading comic books, that there is a sort of unwritten rule of the genre which says that the more powerful a character is, the tougher that character is. It’s kind of an expansion of the Requisite Additional Powers trope.
As soon as you move outside the “street” level stories, you will notice that hit locations stop mattering. Characters are equally tough no matter where you hit them. Injuries only happen as plot points. Characters are also equally strong all over. It does not matter how an attack is delivered; a punch, a kick, or a Karate Chop will have the exact same effect, and it doesn’t matter where the attack lands.
That’s why Superman just punches things. What good would it do for him to use Kung Fu? He couldn’t hit any harder. His attacks wouldn’t be any more effective. There’s just no point to it.
In the comics, Superman has studied Kryptonian martial arts which consist of both a ‘hard style’ which is physical, and a ‘soft style’ meant for telepathic attack and defense (as Kryptonians are inherently telepathic).
I get the idea that in comics, the stronger someone is, the tougher they are, but there are other factors to consider.
In the real world, most martial arts are designed so that a person is able to defend themselves against another person, whether that person is stronger or not. My own Wing Tsun instructer spoke of an 80-year-old woman from his school who regularly beat the snot out of bigger, stronger, younger, tougher students. As the saying goes, “Knowledge is power.”
The idea behind having a powerhouse learn martial arts is to allow them to fight smarter. If Superman just tried to wail his fists against Darkseid’s face, the battle would be fairly one sided. Darkseid is a warrior, a military leader, a tactician. More than that, he enjoys a *good fight*. We all know that Superman is “Always as strong as he needs to be”, but if Darkseid decided to redirect every super-strong blow Superman swings, what good is that strength (and don’t tell me it can’t happen!) With a knowledge of martial arts, Superman can apply his strength and speed in a much more effective way.
Also, Superman holds back. Why do you think that criminals still try to shoot him, even knowing he is super strong and “invulnerable”? Can humans *truly* understand what invulnerability is? My answer is that they never see him cut loose. They really don’t understand just how powerful he is.
Maxima, on the other hand, is a soldier. based on the fact that our dear author DaveB already stated that the move she’s using is based on Krav Maga, we can infer she fights like a soldier… we can also see (as she has stated more than once), she does not want to be underestimated. She wants everyone to see exactly what they are up against if they cross her. She’s holding back just enough to let people walk away and deliver that message— not only is she tough, strong, powerful… she’s got the skills to make all of that even more dangerous.
I was mostly answering to DaveB’s complaint about how upper tier Supers don’t use martial arts. Superman just throws punches.
I was pointing out that it actually makes more sense for Superman to just throw punches. Nothing else he could do would get the job done any better. At his power level supers are equally tough all over. They have no weak points to strike at. The difference that martial arts techniques makes in the amount of damage a character can deal out is so small it vanishes entirely compared to the difference that super strength makes.
In effect, Superman can’t fight any smarter than he does. Using martial arts would be no more helpful to him than using creative dance moves.
Maxima wouldn’t be any more effective fighting someone like Darkseid than Superman is. Her military training and martial arts wouldn’t do her a bit of good.
That may be true for that example, I have no idea what Darkseid’s power set is even though I read the graphic novel The Death of Superman. But it’s not true as a blanket statement.
Pit Maxima against her clone, except the clone doesn’t know any martial arts and just throws punches. Once they get into hand to hand, assuming the particle beams didn’t let them kill each other, expect Maxima to utterly dominate her clone doe to her martial arts training. Every single time, with no exception.
There isn’t any particular reason for Maxima to use her martial arts against a mugger, sure, but other superhero/villains are not at all in the same class as the mugger. We didn’t see any martial arts from her in the bank, did we? I don’t want to archive dive, but from memory she picked up Sydney with just a normal “I’m super strong, and you weigh 100 lbs.” grab, and did a pretty standard punch smackdowm on Mr. Amorphous. I don’t recall how she put Achilles out of the fight, since he’s invulnerable anyway, but I think he was playing to the cameras and so stayed down after one hit.
DaveB noticed that in the comic books, you hardly ever see anything about martial arts outside of “street” level stories where people are fighting normal humans, and characters who have powers that they call Martial Arts. To him this does not make sense. Wouldn’t it be logical to assume that anyone who fights hand-to-hand would benefit from martial arts training?
For DaveB answer is that yes. The vast majority of comic books have been doing things wrong for a couple decades now. He’s certainly entitled to his opinion, and since he’s doing his own comic, he can even show us how he thinks things should be.
What I am doing is going with the assumption that how things are presented in the comic books is correct, and from that trying to sort of reverse-engineer a justification for it. This is a time honored form of speculation that people use to win No Prizes.
My theory is that Martial Arts Skill simply does not scale into the superhuman realm. Supers are so much stronger, faster, and tougher than normal humans that it negates the effect of martial arts skill.
As power levels go up, characters get tougher. They are able to absorb more punishment, and they lose the various vulnerabilities and weaknesses found in normal human beings. Supers fight until they are knocked unconscious, and require little or no medical attention after battle. They do not become wounded except as specific plot points. Their bones do not break, their organs do not rupture.
A large part of martial arts involves knowing where and how to hit in order to do the most damage. The effect is completely negated by the enhanced durability found in supers.
This same durability is also the reason why things like joint locks and holds do not work. When you are dealing with an opponent whose bones will not break and whose joints cannot be dislocated, such techniques are ineffective. Supers can’t be joint locked and can apply their full strength to escape any kind of hold.
Any degree of super strength overshadows any benefit martial arts skill can provide to doing more damage.
The defensive techniques martial arts are largely useless due to the speeds at which attacks come when launched by supers. Remember that in order for a blow to hit harder, it needs to be moving faster Dodging or avoiding attacks launched by supers becomes a matter of overcoming inertia enough to physically get out of the way.
So if you consider a fight between Maxima, and a copy of her that lacks her martial arts training, would Maxima really have any advantage? As near as I can figure, no, she would not. Martial arts skill won’t let her hit any harder, nor will it help her avoid incoming attacks any better.
———————————————————————————————————————-
All of that being said, there is one aspect of martial arts skill that I have a harder time explaining away. Why wouldn’t techniques that redirect your opponent’s energy work? My argument about the speeds at which super human combat takes place making such techniques irrelevant seems a little thin in this case.
I do have some ideas. For one thing, in order to re-direct your opponent’s energy, you need to be just as fast as they are, if not a little faster. You have to be able to out maneuver them.
For another thing, you need to have approximately the same degree of strength. Yes, I am aware that the techniques were developed to allow weaker people to defend themselves against stronger ones by using their own energy against them, but there is a limit. Even if it takes just a little nudge to move your opponent’s arm out of position, you have to be strong enough to nudge them, and when dealing with super strength, there isn’t going to be that wide a tolerance. If a punch is coming in with the equivalent energy of a freight train, you have to be strong enough to nudge a freight train.
It might make an interesting story to see what Superman would do against someone nearly as strong and as fast as he is who used Judo.
Your argument holds up fairly well if talking about supers vs normals. Or even if fighting other supers who’s powers are far inferior.
Although it fails to address the important issue of improving control. The more dangerous their powers, the better control they need to have over them. Even villains suffer consequences if they kill.
And consider the case of someone who only has super strength (for arguments sake, although it is just one example of numerous variants I could pick). Many martial arts teach evasive techniques. If that super took on a suitably skilled black belt, he would never get to deploy his strength, because he would not be able to land a blow!
Worse, he would be totally vulnerable to counter-attack. He is an unskilled, incompetent person. I would feel perfectly capable of taking down someone like that myself. So long as you know that you must avoid his attacks. It is easy to take down untrained people. Regardless of how strong they are.
Sure, one slip up and you would be in trouble. But I would put my money on a skilled martial artist vs a mere super-strength brawler, with no skill, any day of the week.
Bear in mind that boxing is a martial art. As are various types of street fighting, if developed to a decent level. So this argument is restricted purely to skilled vs unskilled. I am not attempting to argue the merits of one martial arts style vs another. Although the more sophisticated the style (provided it is matched to needs of the super), the better it will help them, of course.
However your argument breaks down significantly more when talking about supers who’s powers are comparably balanced. If matched super-speeders fight each other, they become like two normal humans fighting one another. The one with martial arts being more likely to beat the one without.
Even if they have different types of powers, but they fairly much counter each other out, and it is not simply a matter that one is far more powerful than the other, then anything which gives one individual an edge over the other can tip the balance.
Martial arts give many such edges. Having been developed to aid fighting in many ways. It can aid balance, rolling with a blow, falling safely, fighting on an unstable surface, coping with the disadvantage of fighting whilst prone. Getting back up fast, without exposing yourself to an attack. Disabling an opponent, without seriously injuring or killing them. And so on.
If fighting someone like Lee-Press-on-Nails, who has unbreakable skin, you will want to target their eyes, rupture their organs or break their bones. Martial arts will help you do that, even if your own super powers do not.
Taking your example of Maxima vs evl Maxima clone, both have five star* offence vs the same defence. Net result they would be like two humans pounding on each other. Good Maxima will kick her opponent’s butt with Krav Maga. Evil Max will not be able to use her super-speed to avoid the attacks, because her opponent has exactly the same level.
In her particular case, good Maxima would have an extra edge, in that she could ease off some of her power in speed and reflexes, because she can make that up by the extra skill that has a similar effect. This would allow her to divert extra power to other areas.
Or she could go the other way, and pump everything into enhancing the style of attack she chose. The combination of maxed out super powers, focussed by superb skill, would push her offensive capability beyond the realm that her opponent could counter. Bearing in mind she would be drawing from just as limited a pool of power as good Maxima.
Anybody who’s job involves fighting can benefit from proper martial arts training. Assuming that their powers will always outmatch every opponent in every aspect arrogance. Or the lazy attitude of a super, alone on a planet of mortals.
* Clearly there is a huge scope for difference within the range. But it is not unreasonable to assume that they are actually fairly evenly balanced, given that Maxima’s powers stem from a common source.
Those evasive techniques only work against normal humans, because normal humans don’t more or attack very fast. They don’t work for or against supers because of the much higher speeds involved.
You are making the assumption that not studying martial arts is the same thing as having no combat training at all. This is not the case. Characters do learn how to fight. They don’t use martial arts techniques because those don’t work for supers. What you see in the comics is that characters use fairly simple looking punches and kicks, rather than the elaborate and stylized maneuvers of formal martial arts training.
The example I cited there was no super speed involved, so your argument is spurious. Likewise if you look at the cast list there are only two characters (Max and Math) who have enhanced speed/reflexes. And these are specifically chosen as being heroes who are suited to combat, so are likely to have a higher ratio of combat-useful powers compared to typical supers.
I really do not know where you are getting that from. At no point has that ever been stated in this comic. What heroes here do get is good physique (ie good looks) and a healthy, fit, body as part of the package. That does not equate to the claims you are making.
The most I would consider the free package grants is Olympic sportsman level capabilities. And none I have ever seen gain immunity to damage. Or even resistance to it. Of course this is a subjective matter, and you are entitled to your opinion. I just think you are reading waaaaay too much into it.
I could spend all day linking the bits of evidence that counter that. Just have a read through the fight to see how many of the villains have been taken down, battered, bleeding and bruised, to disproving your claim.
Your final paragraph goes some way to explaining your misconceptions though. In assuming that tropes established in other comics establish precedent here. They do not. Not unless DaveB chooses to bring them in. You will see in panel three that Krav Maga is quite clearly being used to devastating effect. As confirmed by Dave’s comments.
Moreover one of the most powerful characters is a normal human who is so good at martial arts that he can beat supers just by it.
So, whilst your comments are interesting, they have little to do with how things work in Grrl Power. Given that these arguments are so at odds, with your normal strong debating skill, it makes me wonder if there is some kind of problem?
I started this thread in response to DaveB’s comments about Superman, and how it seems like he ought to be using Martial Arts, yet he clearly does not. DaveB sees this as a mistake, and he intends to do things differently in the ARCverse.
I noticed that it’s not just Superman who doesn’t use martial arts. Hardly anyone in comic books does. So I offered a counterpoint. Instead of assuming that the people who have been writing the majority of comic books have been doing things wrong for the past couple of decades, I went with the idea that they were presenting things correctly, and that martial arts just aren’t that useful to supers. I tried to come up with a plausible explanation of why that is.
I wasn’t talking about the ARCverse. I was talking about the Marvel and DC universes, as well as most other comic book settings that I have seen.
DaveB said he was going to be doing things differently, and I am interested to see how that works.
Ahh, gotcha. Arguing at cross-purposes does explain things.
Mind you, even across the genre I would still make the same arguments. But it may be fruitless, as it boils down to an artistic licence issue. If the mainstream comics prefer brute force brawling, with no skill, then the issue does not arise.
The characters succeed because the writers scripted it that way. Rather than following any real-world logic. Not that such bothers me. If folks like it that way, they buy into it. If they don’t, then they turn to something else. Unless they can rationalise it in a way that makes sense to them.
One of the reasons I like Spidey is because his super-agility and Spider-Sense does compensate for his lack of combat training. They gave him the basic survival capability necessary, to develop his own fighting style on-the-job. So the kind of arguments you are posing do work for him.
But would he fail to get any benefit in formal training, from someone skilled enough to formulate a specific style? One which would compliment and suit his specific capabilities. If Peter Parker went for training, aimed at a normal human, he could probably pick up a few pointers.
Whereas if he got someone with mastery in a number of martial arts, working specifically with him, as Spider Man, I do think he could significantly improve his current style. He is a self-trained amateur, who has failed to take advantage of hundreds of years of martial arts practice and development.
Likewise at least half of the fantastic four could definitely make good use of proper martial arts training, in my opinion. Adapted for their specific needs. I exempt the Human Torch, as the kind of combat training, that a flying blaster needs, is probably best designed from scratch.
Finally, I always took the danger room training, in the X-Men as being a way of imparting a specialised martial arts style, custom-designed for each individual. Supplementary to their primary training, in their various super powers, of course.
If you can fly, or teleport, or bounce off walls, or run through them, there are a whole bunch of special moves that you can develop, in your unique style, that no mundane martial arts school can teach you. But, even so, there are still a lot of core techniques, that will match the ones which mere humans do use.
Needless to say, that is just the way I looked at it, as opposed to me remembering that being explicitly said at any point.
However one scene, from the movies, does spring to mind, as an example. Which shows the advantage of developing martial arts skills, to compliment the training and practice with powers. Namely Ice Man vs Pyro.
A head-but is a martial technique. Maybe one favoured more by street-brawlers and soldiers, than guys in silk pyjamas with coloured belts, but it still counts. Being trained in using that, and other techniques, can give supers an edge, at a critical moment. Like then.
In fact Lee-Press-on-Nails provides another ideal example. Let us assume that his claim is valid. His claws are six point offence. Thereby able to cut through anything. Including any ‘impenetrable’ defence.
In the other corner we put Achilles.
If you were Achilles, would you feel confident in winning this fight? He is untrained in fighting. His very invulnerability means he is unpractised in dodging. But now he is facing a foe who can slice him open and kill him!
Should he get decent martial arts training, before Lee escapes from prison, he will be trained in how to fight someone with a knife, or similar weapon. So can apply those techniques to avoiding injury and attacking safely. Which means he can then make good use of his enhanced strength.
Without it he is probably going to die.
LPoC had maybe 5.5 points for claw sharpness, but definitely not 6.
Achilles description says he has withstood attacks that would destroy ordinary matter.
If you can eat antimatter without annihilating, then there is no such thing as a blade sharp enough to hurt you. Even if the blade was made of antimatter (and so would cut through anything simply by converting the target into energy) it wouldn’t bother Achilles.
Achilles’ power is beyond any current scientific explanation, as we have not yet found any from of matter that cannot be destroyed.
I totally agree. Achilles only has the one power. It is his thing. Loads of other heroes have super defences, of various sort. And other powers. He is just the very best at the one thing he does do. There would need to be a major plot arc dedicated just to it, if there were to be anything which could (physically) threaten him.
Of course he is not immune to emotional or social problems, mind-control and a variety of other non-life threatening hazards. He would be quite amusing polymorphed into the shape of a white rabbit, for example. One that would be immune to hand grenades. Holy or otherwise.
I was purely using the hypothetical as a way of illustrating my other argument. Lee-Press-on-Nails would not even be able to raise a welt on Achilles’ skin.
There is another reason why many/most martial arts he could learn wouldn’t be effective against most of his top-tier threats.
Those threats aren’t human. (Or Kryptonian) Martial arts are designed to exploit weaknesses in the human body; places where a hit does more damage, or where a movement is weaker than it would be in other directions. Those are dependent on the exact biology of the being you are fighting against. (And conversely the defenses are dependent on your biology.) Many of the aliens in the DC universe are humanoid, but I’m sure the skeleton musculature of a Thanagarian (for example) would differ significantly from human norms.
Now, that doesn’t negate all martial arts, and there are probably some that would be worth learning, but not all. The move Maxima used in this page might not work on someone with a reptilian-style shoulder joint: The bones would be lined up differently and have different strength areas. (And different ranges of motion.) A judo throw probably would – but you have to worry about whether it would be a useful move against someone who is super-tough.
A good argument. Fortunately Archon does have Dabbler, both as an example and to use as a sparring partner. So their martial arts skills will already be more versatile, than average humans. And perhaps she has given them pointers, for some of the more likely non-human foes that may be faced.
Plus they will be able to emphasise skills and techniques which rely more on maximising your own capabilities, and reducing your own disadvantages. Along with those which allow you to make best use of the environment and weapons. To still give them an edge when fighting opponents who’s physiology you are less familiar with.
More importantly for this comic: Dabbler is the only sign of non-human supers around, while human supers are the expected norm. So human martial arts would work – though effectiveness may vary depending on strength and toughness levels. This isn’t DC with the Last Son of Mars, the Last Son of Krypton, the Exiled Thanagarian, the Galactic Police Force, etc.
In the DC or Marvel universe, the move that Maxima used to break that guy’s arm wouldn’t do anything different from any other blow. The only time superheroes or supervillains suffer major injuries like broken bones is as a plot point. It’s not something that happens in normal combat.
This is an example of something that DaveB is doing differently than the common run of superhero comics.
It makes me curious though. Hiro has 4 dots of Super strength. He was shown trading blows with that guy for quite a while. If Boiler Plate Man was really that fragile, how could he have still been standing after Hiro hit him a couple of times?
He is not that fragile. Maxima is just that much tougher. When she maximises the relevant abilities, she goes up to five star. And has used Krav Maga to ensure that her strength is used to best effect.
To be fair, Superman does know a little bit about boxing. He once had to fight Muhammad Ali.
https://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mea49yhN8x1rcp7bmo1_1280.jpg
Hey! I got that one!
…In a cardboard box…
…somewhere in my totally *un*organized filing system…
If this was the only time he fought a boxer, I’ve seen that scene live. The bell rings, the two contenders meet in the middle of the ring. Superman taps Ali on the forehead with his forefinger, Ali goes down. Fight over, win by knockout. And was probably the cause of Ali’s Parkinson’s syndrome.
I found the scene I was thinking of. It wasn’t Ali. And it wasn’t quite as brief as I described. But of course they had to add some drama, I suppose, regardless of how ridiculous the Man of Steel being knocked down by a mere human’s punch and feeling his jaw for injury might seem to some…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jbk0rHtVYE
In the comic they fought under a red sun. and Ali kicked supes ass.
“grrlpowercomic.com” is blank, maybe it should redirect to “www.grrlpowercomic.com” or something?
Mine does (using Google Chrome).
I have a question about ARCHON and any telepaths they may have, are they able to use their powers on a suspect without a search warrant? Ariana would have a very tough time selling that to the public.
I agree. Off the top of my head though, I do not recall any announcement being made to the press about ArcLight and ArcDark. Or, if there was, it would not have been detailed. Given that they operate under the cloak of any espionage operations. And that is where the telepaths will be.
We know that Dabbler is the only one with any psionic powers in ArcSWAT. As such, they can try to keep dodging the question of telepaths. Unless the ARCverse espionage community is under the same kind of scrutiny as in our world.
The comic was conceived and started before the Edward Snowdon scandal. So the atmosphere in day one should be a lot less cynical, than we would expect of the media in today’s environment. In fact even when the flashback is over, and we return to the start of the comic, a few months later, that will still before those events.
I’d bet that a “realistic” response to that would be: Yes.
The telepath might also need to be a certified law enforcement officer with court-filed certification & confirmation that his telepathic testimony would be accurate, truthful & that any info gained that’s irrelevant to the case at hand would not be revealed, due to privacy issues.
After all, a trained K-9 unit has to be certified *in court* that the dog’s behavior reflects enough judgment & obedience to commands to NOT maul on some innocent bystander…
It’s terrifically difficult to determine the fairest way to treat mental powers such as telepathy within our legal system. The simplest question the defense might ask is “How do you prove that you read this information from the defendants mind?” And even repeatable demonstrations of accurate mind reading might not be sufficient proof, given that there are thousands of examples of stage magicians demonstrating doing just that who could be called in to testify that they do not actually have telepathy.
And then there is the whole Fifth Amendment thing to deal with. If you read the subjects mind isn’t that essentially a violation of the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination? They did not volunteer that information, after all.
In cases where telepathy is not involved (i.e. the real world) when cops ask you a question even before Mirandizing you, your answer is admissible if you do not invoke your right to remain silent. Telepathy makes this all the more complicated. So the only defense against a telepath might be to immediately invoke your Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. Then, no matter how deeply your mind was plumbed by the cops/Superheroes, you’d have a legal out.
And, back in the real world, should you ever find yourself in a situation where the police or federal agents are questioning you about a serious crime, you should immediately state to them:
I assert my right to remain silent.
I assert my right to have council present.
And then clam up. You waive your right to remain silent if you start blabbing, and the cops are really good at trying to make people in these situations talk. They know the law, you do not, and they will work you over to their advantage given half a chance. Just remember that as a person close to someone who has been murdered or kidnapped or injured, you are automatically a prime suspect. God forbid it is the death of one of your loved ones that is involved, but you still need to think about your own legal safety. Assert your rights, shut up, and wait to consult with you attorney. You’ll be safer from the chance of false prosecution, and that will increase the odds that the right people go to jail once caught.
The telepaths are mainly there for immediate safety concerns. Miranda does protect you yes, but a police officer can ask you stuff if it involves the immediate safety of the police officer and the citizens. Take a bank robber that’s dropped his gun. A police officer can ask where that gun is before issuing the Miranda Warning because a loose gun unaccounted for is dangerous to have around. The telepaths are serving a similar purpose in this situation.
I think once the Miranda Warning is issued, it’s another matter entirely and any testimony they give would be considered on par with a lie detector. I.E. inadmissible. See, human thought isn’t smooth like when we’re talking or typing. Human thought is a mix of half realized sentences and gibberish train of thought exercises. Unless you focus on something to say or do, then it’s just crap.
Besides, people all the time think of doing stuff they have no intention of doing. When I worked at a casino it was the night shift. Not much to do, so I planned and planned to do an Ocean’s 13 and rob the place. I figured out the times, how to beat the cameras, how to get away and even where I would launder the money. Did I ever plan on doing it? No. I didn’t want to do it, I just wanted to break up the monotony. These are the problems a Telepath would have in court.
A police officer reading someone’s mind violates the 4th Amendment protection against unlawful search and seizure. That amendment is the basis for our “right to privacy”, such as it is. Reading someone’s mind without their permission would be an illegal search. It’s pretty much the exact same thing as listening in to their cell phone conversations, or reading the information on their computer’s hard drive.
Super powers will present some rather amazing challenges to the existing legal systems of the world. What law exactly is being violated when someone like Maxima fires an energy beam at someone else? There might be some laws about witchcraft still on the books that would apply, but otherwise the court case could be “interesting”.
What law does mind controlling someone else violate? How do you prove that someone mind controlled someone else?
If a telepath steals an idea you had and patents it before you can, what laws have been violated, and how to you prove it?
The movie “Minority Report” took a swipe at the legal mess that precognition creates.
Retrocognition, looking into the past, might allow you to see how a crime was committed, but does it violate the criminal’s rights? Should information gathered in that manner be allowed as legal testimony?
The list just goes on and on.
I would say Retrocognition would fall under the same category as the original version of Necromancy. (Asking questions of spirits of dead people, not raising them up.) The category of supernatural forensics. Forensics allows someone to look at the past so to speak and figure out what happened. Looking at the past and seeing it directly and without the cloud of doubt that comes with eye witnesses would be devastating to defense lawyers but is no violation of human rights on its own.
Now looking into the future and arresting people before they commit a crime, that’s a whole new kettle of civil rights fish.
Precognition provides similar problems to the ones you mentioned about telepaths too. A precog in 2000 would be able to see the success of Dropbox, Facebook and other such developments, and make it first. Likewise with songs or novels.
Maybe not lottery numbers though, assuming that the butterfly effect means that random variability remains a factor. And it would take somebody who could understand that the ideas alone is not enough. It is the implementation, marketing and timing that all count. Dropbox was not the first such concept.
And without the right face or voice, you probably still will not be able to make it to number one, even with what should be a best-selling song. Nor might you convince someone good to record it for you.
So, rather than gaining fame and fortune, the unethical telepath or precog might just be consigning what should have been a best-seller, or number one hit, to instead being unrecorded or simply a flop.
The person who would have made it, musing to themselves ‘Thank gods I did not get egg on my face making that rubbish, and to think I had almost the identical concept myself!’
True, but all the sneaky, dirty telepath needs to do is to file ‘proof’ that they wrote the words before the singer releases the song. Then they can fight for compensation in court, regardless of how horrible their own singing voice might be.
Yea you are right. Once or twice only though. Beyond that and folks would catch on. In a world with super-powers anyhow.
But it is a bit more complicated than you indicated. The precog would also need to set it up so that the courts would believe that the words were copied. Because independent creation is allowed, if it is a co-incidence. If the precog did nothing more than file the proof with a lawyer, say, then there would be no compensation.
After all, the whole point of royalties is to give a return in recognition of the work that went into creating something. If the song got created independently, without that aid, then all the contributing work was done by someone else.
The work that goes into authenticating the date of creation, is simply to show that it is credible that the former work influenced the later one. Even if unconsciously. But if other evidence can show, categorically, that it did not, then there is no reward for simply being the first to have an idea.
Of course there have been a few famous instances, where major artists have had a song spring into their heads fully-formed. And been convinced that they must have heard it somewhere else before. If a precog became aware of such an upcoming event, he, or she, could get into position to be singing the song, within earshot of the celebrity. The day before they were due to write it.
As the writer did not think of the song as having been their own, in the first place, it would be a lot easier to pass the song off as the precog’s. All it would take then is to convince the celebrity to record it anyway, but to give the precog acknowledgement as the ‘creator’ and to get a share of the royalties accordingly.
Still outright despicable and unethical. But more likely to succeed. Mind you, a precog would probably know that.
All of this assumes that Telepathy is an active power, used by a conscious act of will, and not a passive power, like, essentially, a superhuman sense.
I think the real issue with allowing telepathy in court would be the difficulty in corroborating evidence gathered in that manner, as even people sitting in the same room as the telepath would be unable to gather the same data from their senses.
I vote that energy projection be treated as the equivalent solid state weapon in calculating legal action. leander would be quoted as attempted suppression with flash bang against hex while breakpoint would be charged with assault as if she fired a tazer / stun gun.
I bet Max would be a pretty good distraction in the buff, too HURR HURR HURR
Now we are seeing some second tier action from the initial battle. Or maybe close ups of the winding down of the battle.
According to my virusscanner your website has been infected with malware.
It tries to link to cdn2[dot]movetoclarksville[dot]com/k?t=579558410
That warning has been around for a while. Nobody can confirm it so the best guess is a false positive. They do happen.
See DaveB‘s reply to a similar point on page 3 of the comments. Should anyone get any more warnings, please be sure to mention it. Ideally by email to Dave, as he requests:
grrlpowercomic@gmail.com
The sooner the better, as I imagine he will not want to keep the adverts turned off, for longer than is necessary. If it is one of the adverts, which is causing the problem, there should be none. But, in the event that it is something else, the more information that we can provide Dave, the better.
Should anyone’s warning message be of a type that might vanish, before you get to make a note of the error details, do not forget that you can hit your ‘print screen’ button (on a PC anyhow). You can then paste the image into something else, such as an art program or Word document, to examine at your leisure.
You could even save yourself typing details out, if you attach that in your email to Dave.
The funny part is Halo confirmed in interview that she has ADHD so that plan could work on her.
She’s a major fan of super heroes, and now she’s her own super hero
As an ADDer I can tell you, there is nothing that can distract her right now.
It’s probably a little similar to getting sucked into Skyrim for 8 hours. Suddenly you look up and the sun is rising
Of course, as a super hero, it will be that much worse for her. It will seem like three years, or more, have passed!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hot-hot-hot-spicy-burger-sends-two-british-men-hospital-n152836 Hey look, a burger joint that is Sydney approved!
Except she doesn’t eat meat.
Sydney doesn’t eat meat, true enough, but it’s the *sauce* that did the trick. She’ll probably want to find out their source for the sauce.
That “sauce” would eat right through a bowl of noodles and ignite the table. Unless Sydney is a fast eater.
Easy enough fix, I have no problems with vegetarians. I’d just make her up some fish tacos and pour the sauce on liberally. And since I also like it spit fire hot* I can safely do it.
* Stealing Yorp’s gimmick for a second. It is part of my plan of protecting myself from vampires and zombies. I am purposely tainting my blood with a series of mass hot sauce and garlic binges. Vampires will turn to dust upon tasting my blood and the zombie plague won’t be able to survive the extreme heat of my blood.
zombies ignore blood, just let run out the mouth, while eating the brains. vamps are not harmed by garlic it is the intensity of the smell on the enhanced senses that make it defensive along with the outdated notion that it had purifying powers against the supernatural.
His breath, on the other hand, will ignite flammable material at arm’s length. Hard to feast on a victim when your face is on fire.
I thought he was saying he would be immune to becoming a zombie because the virus wouldn’t survive in his veins.
This little discovery may have some inappropriate timing at the current point this story, but I only caught this today in NBC News: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hot-hot-hot-spicy-burger-sends-two-british-men-hospital-n152836
A short quote from the article:”…estimated the sauce used on the burger to be between 7 and 9 million on the Scoville scale…”
The first thought in my head when I read it: Bon Appetite, Sydney.
I cry at anything over a jalapeno. The fumes would have killed me.
Of the villains, the ones we don’t know to be down are:
“Challenge Accepted” guy.
Hex (probably quit, though)
Concretia/Anima (possibly quit and/or being spawn-camped into inaction)
Wictor Won Dune, of Ratvelia (probably planned to be a heavy hitter soon)
Breakpoint
Marbles
Jem (Marbles and Jem are my names for the two in today’s last panel)
Really Big Orange Boxers Guy (from Max’s establishing shot of enemy crowd)
Glowbug (woulda considered her “down” and/or “extra crispy” but we’ve got explicit statement from DaveB otherwise)
Jabberwokky
And “Woah!” girl from the end of “Nose Boop of Doom,” who has the amusing rumor of being Yorp’s owner.
Wait, I GOT it. “Challenge Accepted” guy’s super power is the whole-cloth creation of low- to mid-level supers. Not even “making people super;” simply making new people. It’s one of those terrifying god-like powers, like Legion from X-men.
This explains how so many appeared at once when intel said there weren’t even that many in the country. It also explains why they don’t seem too concerned about their odds, and are willing to work together even though they clearly haven’t practiced any sort of team maneuvers. Mind control was one theory floated, but the problem with that is that a mind controller doesn’t have a reason to attack the enemy supers with his team. Better to just, like, steal them.
I’ve even got his super-villain name:
.
..
…
PATREON
Wasn’t the guy in the red cloak the one Max planted in the parking lot a few pages ago? About all we see is an explosion.
I mean Jiggawatt’s introduction page, last frame.
Woof!
*wags tail*
Actually, there’s still one important-looking guy that hasn’t been introduced: the evil-looking figure in the cape and cowl, seen in panel 6 of comic #209, and panel 2 of comic #227.
And considering: a. his generally ominous appearance, b. the way he’s just floating through the battlefield with seemingly no concern for the chaos around him, and c. the way he casually backhanded a flying Concretia into the ground in #209…I’m gonna hazard a guess that he’s the Big Bad. Or at least the leader of this particular group of villains.
I think he means introduced in terms of closeups/actions/dialogue, not in terms of names/powers/Who’s Who.
You know I always liked the “No Costume” superhero. Some ordinary looking schlub who turns out to be a serious ass-kicker. Like when Wolverine walked around in thrift-store clothes and wanted to be left alone.
Or Superman’s “let’s be a total vindictive jerk” moment in Superman 2?
No I agree that was kind of a dick move and in fact out of character of you ask me. I talking about someone who does his best to avoid fighting because he knows how badly he outclasses any “norm” yet when he can’t avoid it he takes them out quickly and without malice.
in the new adventures of lois and clark superman learned some martial arts to so he could defeat a ninja it was one of the early episodes in season 1 i think
Even after reading the comments I still did not get the idea that anyone put the same significance into the speech by captain marbles as I did. People pointed out that Sydney might be vulnerable to distraction because her previous behavior has been documented but what else does that say? We have little to no belief that we can in any way remove her from the fight in short order. Everyone knows Maxima is The Big Bad. You take out all her backup and you bring everything to bear to try and win. They realize Sydney is dangerous enough that they want to remove her from contention but they are willing to spend assets to distract her.
Sydney showed up Today…..the bad guys did not decide to get together over coffee this morning. From her TV demo, Her Sydness demonstrated a truly disturbing number of powers of a clearly high level nature. Sydney shielded the entire press conference from a small yield nuclear weapon. While flying…..and screwing around. The PPO is a barely controlled doom beam that largely ignores structural integrity. The Hentacle has done an enormous amount of damage and in no way endangers Sydney while using it. The only possible reason The Loose Collective of Ill Intent chooses to distract Sydney is because they believe on some level that might be all they can do to her.
Also…..the thought of a panicked or seriously wounded Sydney…..all the lessons that Maxima tried to instill in her go right the hell out the window. We might get to see just what the range on the PPO actually is when not conveniently backstopped by planet earth.
Calling the Lighthook “Hentacle”, as a combination of “Hentai” and “Tentacle” I assume ?
I like it ! I like it a lot, because it relates way better to Halo’s character than Arianna approved labels.
Here’s Sydney trying to sneak a fun name for the Lighthook past Max. https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/793
Something shiny, as in Shiny Pokemon?
So who gets to go into space to pick up the currently spinning-to-there minion?
After the fight, he’ll have company anyway. Dabbler can fly her ship up there, toss a cargo net over them and haul them back down. Their option for the flight are, inside as reactor shielding or our outside as ablative protection.
The last option probably sounds like fun to Achilles.
“Oooh oooh, can you dig me out of this rubble, and give me a lift, when you fly up? I would love to body surf down from orbit!”
OOOOOOOOOOO GRAVITY DIVE!! GRAVITY DIVE!! I wanna join the fun too! can I?! can I?!