Grrl Power #230 – To the rescue!
Maxima is a dirty fighter, no two ways about it. She employs sort of a super version of Krav Maga, basically with the intent to cripple in a single hit. I know there are some continuities which say that Superman knows some crazy Krytonian martial art, but most of what I’ve seen of him comes from Superman:TAS, the Justice League cartoons, and the DC animated movies, and in those it would be generous to even call him a pugilist. He just hits things, and not even very skillfully. It always bugged me that his job is basically just to hit stuff, yet he never seemed to study even basic martial arts. It’s probably a different story depending on what comic you’re reading, but all the animated Superman really made me want to make sure that my top tier super fought very differently. Besides it being sensible to want to take out opponents with brutal efficiency, Max is also wanting to build a reputation, which is if you get into a fight with her, the best possible outcome is an extended hospitalization.
You can see the two in the last panel of this page under the Hump the Barrett word bubble of the parking lot shot on this page.
I think… with this page, all the major players have been introduced, or at least show doing something during the fight. There might be a few more minions left to blow away, but from this point on it’s mostly attrition. Arc-SWAT has done very well so far thanks to a number of factors, training, teamwork, coordination, actually watching each other’s backs, etc. We’ll see if it holds up, especially now that it seems that the remaining antagonists are trying some coordination of their own.
#MakeComics: Speaking of watching each other’s backs, it’s funny how pages and story details can change while creating a page. Basically Jiggawatt is reaaaaly lucky I didn’t have room on this page to draw her barely deflecting the second parking bumper that gets chucked at her in panel 6. I had planned on having half of it catch her in the ribs, not quite taking her out of the fight but effectively immobilizing her. Basically it would have turned her in to a wheezing lightning turret. But I couldn’t get everything I wanted on the page, so I rewrote a few key postcedent (it’s a word) events and I think it’s much better for the change. Since I couldn’t fit the bumper hitting her, I could have either had Breakpoint conveniently forget to throw it (not ideal since I showed her picking it up last page) or I get to show Sydney being a huge boon to the team, not only providing cover as we saw on previous pages, but now actively stuffing enemy attacks.
Oh and props to Charlie Abbott for being the first person to spot that Jiggawatt is wearing Major Kira’s shirt. (Or my close approximation of it – I think there were multiple version of it in wardrobe and the criss-cross changed slightly with each one.) Charlie has already been awarded his No-prize.
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Somebody knows how to push buttons.
I think escaping would be the thing to focus on by now. Yay, pride!
Distract Halo? Not when she’s having so much fun. And attacking Hiro? While Anvil, Amorphous and Stalwart are unaccounted for? And the Colonel is back on overwatch. The baddies may be getting organized but the brain reserve is still a quart low.
More to the point: How is it he knows enough about Sydney that “something shiny” is what WOULD distract Halo?
he watches TV?
This motley mob of second- or third-tier supes must be under some kind of mind control. We haven’t seen a single one cut and run yet, which is insane when the fight’s going the way it is.
Ahh, I see you have not mastered the fine art of spotting hidden details in Grrl Power. But do not worry, I too missed it. That though, is one of the joys of being in this community. Finding out when we have done so.
Have a peek at panel 6, of the last issue. Look really close… Closer…. Back a bit… Up… See the glowing things, to the left?
Yup. That is who you think it is, behind the hedge. Cutting and running. Well, crawling and sneaking.
To be fair, though, that could easily be a case of the sudden appearance of an angry squirrel demolishing whatever mental hold the mastermind had over Hex. Squirrels are scary, as we all know!
Looks more like the line up for a sneak attack than a cut and run.
The sweat bead on Hiro, he can see what’s coming, or going in this case. The landing is gonna hurt less than that first punch. Assuming he’s still awake.
I think the sweat bead is from the realization that he’s been sparring with a woman who can, and will, do that to someone. [Note his line in the next panel.]
I would’ve figured she might have been sandbagging (after all it’s generally the person that can keep the team in line who ends up in charge and you don’t normally want to kill your teammates if you are a good guy) but I’d be wondering how much she was at that point.
woohoo! first to post!!!
um.. yeah.
definitely curious as to the name of the lady character with the visor… I think ‘Distraction Damsel’ has been taken…
How about “Lego Lass”? Looks like she is wearing a giant silver Lego piece on her shoulder
We can’t see the tips of her ears, so she may well fall in the Maxima pointy ear camp. But she would be more of an Arawen, than a Legolas, I think?
And bits of the lego appear to be in, or above, the guy’s hand. Therefore, not part of the outfit.
Yeah, realised that after posting (and then forgot where posted this :P)
Freely give up the name (and general appearance) of “Lego Lass” (her outfit has to incorporate Lego pieces, of whatever size required, though)
Lego Lass… I support these words
Those are metal ball berangs the man next to her is floating in his hands.
1) She is trying to oversee what is going on
2) She apparently has some sort of enhanced abilities to get into in this group
3) She is wearing the eye shade
Therefore she is…. the Super-Visor!
Unless she is a gadgeteer that can make weapons out of found items, then she would be…. the Impro-Visor. (I’ll even agree on the ability to join individual items together to make a larger construct),
+1
Well we know that we have De Godfather on scene, watching from the tree. Perhaps, if she is his planner and inventor, she is De Visor?
Or kinfolk/an actual relative of everyone’s favorite Xenodopplesnugglebus, having a tell-tale similar taste in human forms?
The visual similarities stack, and already we know one of the major upcoming villains is a old foe from Her past, which is sounding more and more like that of a prolific adventurer with a LOT of exotic past acquaintances that’ll turn up sooner or later. I’m pretty sure she doesn’t doubt the existence of a little something called ‘karma,’ either. Adrenaline junkies gotsa have their perils.
Oh, no! The bad guys already know Sidney’s weakness: shiny objects! Shiny… shiiiiii neeeee objects… squirrel!
Indeed, now that you mention it: How come? They didn’t mention it on the press conference, did they?
Her behavior at the press conference would be evidence enough for me
No matter how they edited that last incident (leveling up), Sydney looked like the comic relief after Max’s speech. Impressive shield, flakey user.
Remember, the bank robbery bit is on Youtube…
I wish someone would animate the bank robbery scene and post it to Youtube.
There are some bright people reading this comic, if DaveB gave you permission could somebody do it?
PLEASE…..
I would like to be able to look at the math on this . Like How fast can Max throw a punch with that i could figer the ppsi would be . Just so i can know ground shock and so on
figure that she can go from zero to FASTER than a speeding bullet, and BACK to zero (with pinpoint accuracy too) in the amount of time said bullet can travel say, about 20ft (between Sydney and that gunman in the bank, Mr. Amorphous)… i think? that somewhere in the comments for that strip, that it was stated what type of gun was used. therefore, there are muzzle velocity/ ballistics data for the bullets used, ergo you can get her reaction times and arm movement speeds from that…
Actually the something shiny ploy probably won’t work in this situation. There’s enough going on to hold all her attention at once.
Depends on the shiney used
*blink* Does that green-haired guy have a video-game controller in his hand?
I believe that’s the shoulder of the blonde woman’s costume.
Naa. Her hair would be pinned down by one, if that was the case. The objects are in the foreground, in my opinion. Be it buttons, as I implied, or ball-bearings, taking the alternative. Plus there is no hint of symmetry on her other shoulder.
But, that said, that is just the impression from a single frame. The slight points I have picked up on may be optical illusions.
Looks to me as if he is one-hand juggling shiny balls :D
Probably low level magnetic powers.
Telekinesis is also a possibility.
Pinball balls, or large ball bearings.
I dub him “Pinball Wizard.”
The Pachinko Pugalist ?
o.O >.< -.- O.O YOU"RE RIGHT! I thought they were studs on Jem's shoulder pad.
Ah, the joy of having the day off work, and being able to participate in the comments (and be wrong) in real time. ^_^;
I thought it was something weird on that girls’ shoulder.
But now that I think about it, I’m not sure
Those are ball bearings. He probably launches and guides them by TK. Dangerous.
Damn you’re right, those are balls hovering over his hand, with at the background a shoulder
It looked like those 2 were 1 thing
Now that does make sense. Plus it looks like he has one nestled in the corner formed by thumb and hand. So the ball-bearings interpretation is holding strong.
Super-Queeg!
Quick! Hit him with his weakness, a container of strawberries!
Budget-Magneto?
LOL
i love how the villians are like we cant get through halos shield so someone distract her with something shiny
How does one block soundwaves with their body?
On that note, how is Hiro not effected? Is this one of his ‘maybe something else’ powers from the Cast page?
That energy surge going up and to the right looks like Hiro is deflecting the attack. Or absorbing and dissipating it.
No those are the speedlines of him jumping in
Yeah, I was kind of wondering why Max needed Hiro to get in the way rather than just doing it herself, so I assume it has something to do with the particular way his powers work. Also, not to get TO logical on this, but I think that dislocating Breakpoint’s shoulder might also have helped.
….unless Max’s ears are unusually sensitive to sound?
Max is the commander. Her first instinct must not be to do everything herself. She needs to delegate the most suitable subordinate to each task. If she gets distracted, tied up in fighting, or, even worse, disabled somehow, then the team is in serious trouble. They would loose both their leader and their lead tank!
Do not forget that, in order to attack, Maxima has to divert some of her capability from her defences. So she must take care not to take on unknowns. She might become weak enough to be vulnerable.
Plus sonic or vibratory attacks can be particularly effective against targets with a crystalline structure. We do not know what Maxima is made of. But it is not normal flesh. It is possible that she is aware of a vulnerability. Or she may simply be playing it safe, because Breakpoint may have other powers which can take her down.
Whereas Super Hiro has been pounding on that guy for some time, and the opponent has not shown any surprising powers. He is the lesser risk target for Maxima to engage.
His cast icon shows enhanced defence, so this may be part of it. Sound waves reflect off hard surfaces, so maybe his body is solid enough to reflect the bulk of the sonic attack.
Sound waves also get absorbed by objects
That too, I was going off the image looking like there was sound deflection going on. But after a second look, I realised that that is Hiro’s entrance into the scene.
The same way you block any waves: by being an obstacle in front of them. Unfortunately Jiggawatt, it’s clear that Hiro isn’t blocking them completely. But his presence is probably diffracting them enough so that they’re no longer potentially lethal, only painful.
If you see a flash-flood coming down towards you,* and you can’t get to high ground in time, at least put a very solid object between you and the wave front. One that will not be moved. It will wrap around that, and probably still wash you away, but at least you will be shielded from some of the initial impact.
If the object is tall enough, to stand clear of the wave, it is best to get on top of it, needless to say. But you have to make do with what is available. Hopefully, in this case though, Super Hiro’s power is soaking up, or reflecting, the worst of the attack.
* Some folks I know were in this situation just recently. The people who survived were the ones who got to high ground. Some who were not thinking clearly, were trying to get into cars. Which is the worst possible place to be in a flood! Many of the cars ended up in the estuary. Some with drowned bodies inside.
My condolences and prayers for your friends.
Fortunately the folks I know (not really close enough to call friends, rather people who I share the odd conversation and/or drink with), were amongst the survivors. A bit selfish, but we are always most concerned about people we know personally.
There is one however, who works in a spot that I saw was badly hit, who I have not come across since. And am hoping to see her soon, when I go there again. So your words are much appreciated.
The area I live in has seen it’s share of hurricanes and one thing I have seen is people think cars (especially SUVs) make them invulnerable. There’s always some, umm…. less than stellar intellect, trying to drive through flooded areas. Even supposedly smart people like my brother get bored sitting at home during a storm go out driving and end up in 3 feet of water. Lucky for him it wasn’t moving fast.
Driving through 3 ft of slow moving water is more about the challenge than lack of intellect. Anyone with better-than-average spatial awareness would check the water speed first, THEN do something potentially stupid. xD
But if you’re driving a low slung sports car like my brother and the water gets into the electronic ignition and the chip that regulates it the rest doesn’t matter. Or if you try to go fast through even 1 foot of water you could easily screw up your car. A good rule to live by is 4-wheel drive does not mean 4-wheel stop.
It look like to me that Hiro is completely diverting the shock-wave….
I think Jigga is still in the same pose because her eardrums probably no longer exist and she’ll be in a good deal of pain….
On a another note, I think Hiro is doing something other than just blocking as implied by the bad guy with the bad hair do comments…. I look back at hiro and it “Could” be charging up something Ala Cheesy Anime Fighting style(DBZ etc)
This is also how the town of Matsushima was able to survive relatively undamaged by the tsunami of 3/11. There are about 200 small and large islands scattered about in Matsushima Bay, and they took the brunt of the impact of the tsunami waves, but the town still got flooded by the water itself. Sadly, people still died, but if it wasn’t for those islands it would have been far worse, like it was for the towns just a few miles away.
i think that Dave stated earlier somewhere, that Breakpoints power set included the ability to almost instantly calculate the resonant frequency of any given object… if that’s the case, then the resonant frequency of Jiggawatt is “different” from the resonant frequency of Hiro, and therefore it is not affecting him as it would (and still seems to be affecting) Jiggawatt. i’ll bet that Brakepoint needs to stop one specific attack, recalculate for the new frequency, then perform a second attack using the new frequency… a drawback to having her power work in this manner is similar to Sydney’s “only two orbs at once” limitation… she can only do one frequency at a time, and now that the new one is “set” to HIRO… then Jiggawatt is no longer affected and can recover her wits, then she gets to counter attack and tazer-zap her…
Cleverly argued.
You are basically correct. The ability to intuit resonant frequencies is a subability of her ability to detect physical weaknesses, actually. That said, human beings (and, really, any complex structures) don’t have just one resonant frequency- they have many, depending on what you are attacking inside of them, and not everything is as vulnerable to resonant frequency even when you find it.
I had not, originally, read this attack as being a frequency-based attack; I had assumed it was amplitude-based. The downside for an amplitude-based attack is that it could be blunted in pretty much exactly the way Hiro is doing. A frequency based attack wouldn’t suffer the same weakness- Hiro might step in front and make the remaining incoming attack weaker, but it wouldn’t matter because some of the sound would still penetrate and the resonance would continue to build unless, as you suggest, she decided to switch targets.
Since the destructive resonance would depend on density and volume, anything of sufficiently different size and composition would not be effected by the sonic attack in the same way as the original target. Hiro’s larger size (more muscle) and different power-set (assuming that has any difference on the user’s body) would mean he’s more resistant to Jiggawatt-targeted sound attack that Jiggawatt is.
and what gets past is distorted so is not properly keyed to jiggy the way the direct hit was so she is if not recovering spared further progression enough to adapt to it pull herself together.
I would think Mr. Amorphous would be the best for this, as squishy things are better at absorbing sound.
It would be interesting to see the explanation of how Hiro does it.
Yeah, I think Mr. Amorphorous would also be a good choice for blocking those sound waves. He’s very “squishy,” yes, but it’s no problem to recover from it. Sort of like the Highlander-type of Immortals…They can “die,” but they get better.
Hiro can fly. Required secondary-power for any high-speed flight is some method of deflecting the air around you, otherwise it messes up your hair.
(I am still unsure if his bio is listing “rakish good looks” as a seperate item, or as part of his “super” attributes..?)
Honestly, my best guess is that what Breakpoint is projecting is the sonic equivalent of a laser- this is bourne out by the fact that neither she nor any of the various people ahead and to the side of her attack are being incapacitated. Given that, Hiro stepping in the way would effectively blunt the attack.
I’m hearing Sydney say “Denied” in the style of Wayne from Wayne’s World. Either way, nice move. I like the visualisation of Max’s shoulder-popper.
Also Hiro’s throat mic has disappeared between panels 2 and 5, although it could have been dislodged I suppose
Yeah, Max certainly knows what she’s doing…Perfect leverage, applied perfectly. Instant results with minimal effort expended. Apparently, Max is also an expert in use of the B**th Slap maneuver too…
Comic fights and real trained fighters are different things. Comic fights, and by extension combat theater like UFC, are designed to drag out fights to keep the audience entertained. I was always trained to use whatever is necessary to quickly neutralize a threat since you:
A. Don’t know if he has buddies around
and
B. The longer the fight is, the better chance you will be seriously injured.
Sure, I’m called dirty and regularly broke those unspoken middle school rules decades ago by going for the quick and decisive end right from the start (I always skipped the pointless shoving), but it kept me from getting hurt or getting into more fights. No one would pay to see me in the UFC (would likely get kicked out for breaking the rules), but it keeps you safe. Thabkfully haven’t had to use any of it on a serious level in my 33 years of existence because, shit, why would you? Damned scary.
The main character in my Bystander novel has the “superman suite” of powers: strength, reflexes, toughness, senses…though the exact levels of her powers wax and wane due to external situations (the only one of which they cast is aware of is ambient temperature…the colder she is, the more powerful she is). However, she is probably the worst fighter out of any of the named characters and several unnamed ones.
At one point, she gets dumped into a garbage compactor by a Canadian bigot that decided she was Siberian (world politics, Canada and Siberia are at war). She proceeds to tear the garbage compactor and attached truck to pieces, but still…
The best I’ve show cased this is that the highly-trained mercenary that her parole officer hired to watch out for her set up a demonstration.
First she had one drone that had roughly Lucretia’s official levels of strength, speed and toughness programmed with the fighting skill of the average civilian. It took Lu 10 minutes to beat it down.
Robles (said mercenary) then set up 10 drones with the same settings and took them all out in less than a minute. To further make her point, on the last drone, Robles replicated the reported injuries Lu suffered during her vivisection in prison.
All this was Robles way of saying, “stay out of trouble before you attract someone like me.”
Max is willing to be gentle because she is unstoppable. She can take a hit, or dodge it. But if needed she comes on strong and ruthless. Her team is under threat now, no more time for tap-outs. She’s putting muscle into those swings.
I think the next conversation will be a bit awkward:
Hex: “My Buster buddies (TM) are designed for fighting!”
Green hair guy: “Yeah whatever, go wave them in front of Halo.”
I don’t think anyone could lure Hex back into that fight. Not even for a Scooby Snak. And having seen another tough guy go sub-orbital, I’m sure she’s no longer alone.
Scooby Snak? Ret me at em, ret me at em! Ruff!
“Throws a BLT in front of Breakpoint”
Ooh, tingly.
yep like hiro you have the wrong make up to use that exact resonance against so it would not drop you like it did jiggy and you would block /absorb some of the attack so the attack would be weak behind you.
If- and I’d be very cautious about this assumption- her attack is resonance-based, then just weakening the remaining incoming attack wouldn’t be enough; it needs to be changed to a different frequency of cut off altogether or else the effects of the attack will still accumulate. No weakening of already acquired effects and the debilitation would only get worse, albeit at a slower pace, as time went on.
Of course, Hiro could opt for a very direct method of stopping the attack by punching Breakpoint in the face…
Having now read Dave’s commentary, I must admit that I like the results of his last minute rewrite due to art considerations. An untrained Sydney is proving to be an asset to the team with just a few words of advice from Maxima. Imagine what she’ll be like with proper training.
If this was truly war-like anyone showing leadership would be an immediate target. That’s how I’d run ARC-SWAT. Take out the leaders first and the rest will be easier.
Problem is the leader is Maxima, which makes that a little difficult
Dealing with Maxima requires creativity. The only raw force level that might work would cause so much collateral damage that anything else would be vaporized. Including the object of the crime and most criminals.
Exactly, just like Dabs had to get creative to beat Math. Just because you are tremendously overpowered doesn’t mean you are without weaknesses. Hell even Batman and Professor X understood this and made plans to take down any team member who went bad including themselves.
Up to now there have been no leaders to take out or you could be sure Max would be directing fire their way. The team is just taking them as they come or pushing the fight into the mass of bad guys. That’s how Hiro got so bruised up.
would argue that HS was abit of a leadership figure, but having already pitched her against one of the strongest in the team, there probably was no need to send more firepower soo soon.
keep shield up, and hit them with the ground are quite simple orders to follow (plus whatever can get thrown at her is not going to be as scary as the ordeal with maxima shooting a death-beam at her just to test her shield)
as far as i know sidney is pretty much either standing about and grabbing/smashing fools within reach or walking to within range and smashing them, and im pretty sure all the less invunerable members know to use sidney as cover since that she has that shield that you can see the outline of.
Okay, someone on the bad team knows what they are doing
Things should be more fun now! Go Team whoeverthehellthebadguysare!
One thing that irks me about comic-book fight rules is the bad guys are never allowed to use the simple but effective tactics against the good guys. Haven’t any of these people ever heard of something called ‘guns’? Why don’t they have their own super-sniper hiding nearby taking potshots at the various ARC members that don’t obviously appear invulnerable?
(Financially, the first rule of publishing a serialized work is that the main character(s) has to survive in order to sell the next issue, so this limits what you can do to them.)
If I really wanted to kill ARC Light (and if I were an evil villain), I’d have bombed the restaurant at the beginning, or at least hit them with a synchronised assault using ranged superpowers. It would certainly have minimized the number of threats that you have to face. Which leads me to suspect that the villains may not want everyone dead.
Or as mentioned in the opening pages of the fight a few idiots are so testosterone fueled they couldn’t wait to coordinate but be the guy who beat up the heroes on his own (as mentioned in comic #203).
The issue is that supervillains are not actually appreciated if they kill all the heroes. They need the heroes alive so they can be thwarted occasionally and therefore up their cred. If the only supers are villains, they fight amongst themselves and some would end up as anti-heroes. Therefore it makes no sense to perma-kill villains.
The reasons that the heroes aren’t perma-killing villains is they would have government to respond to and would become hunted internationally. Therefore end up living off a life of crime…
Whoops – in the first paragraph I meant it made no real sense to perma-kill heroes. The comic Evil Inc explains the symbiosis between heroes and villains.
AWESOME comic… glad there’s other fans of it here too.
Someone mentioned it a few pages back – reading through the archives at the moment. So far, I’m in the ’09 comics. Brilliant writing.
Years ago I wrote a journal positing pretty much exactly that thought: https://whisakedjak.deviantart.com/journal/On-heroes-and-villains-222223571
This is one of those things that goes down to motivation. Once we know why the bad guys are there, then such details may become apparent.
For instance, this may be a gambit for super-villains to defeat the concentration of America’s super heroes, and seize power, over the mundane populace. In which case, the last message they would be wanting to send is that ‘the best way to take out supers is to shoot them’.
There are very few good guys vulnerable to normal firearms. Math; Dabbler, Jiggawatt, and maybe Mr. Amorphous (depending on how amorphous he really is).
Many of the villans have abilities more potent than guns: copper-chestplate guy punches hard enough to injure Hiro. Breakpoint’s attack isn’t as damaging, but is still very debilitating and works as an AOE. Hex’s buster buddies are more powerful than guns. LPoC’s claws cut through anything (maybe even maxima [this also makes it hard to properly use the gun]).
The only named villain I can imagine carrying a gun is Heavenly Sword, due to the fairly short effective range of her power.
Actually, Breakpoint’s sonic attacks are potentially much more dangerous than bullets. They also have much finer control… she doesn’t actually have to be LOUD to kill you; there are structures in the body that are vulnerable to resonant frequencies… not to mention how various frequencies can cause debilitating cramps, nausea, etc.
Actually, you have it a bit mixed up there: about the only ones confirmed to be invulnerable to firearms are Maxi and Les (Anvil is unconfirmed: if an evil Peg took a few shots at her, would her kinetic-absorbing be enough to handle something the size of a bullet?), Sydney is only safe while she is Under Glass (remember during her initial interview, she mention how she was vulnerable to bullets)
Hiro is tough, not bullet-proof
That we can’t say Boilerplate may do more damage than a bullet. The fact Hiro’s bleeding isn’t necessarily indicative of whether he’s bulletproof or not but rather if he is vulnerable to at least certain unspecified amounts and/or types of damage.
To try and put some guestimate figures on it we can do the following. We know that three point telekinesis (Sydney’s tentacle) can lift a car. Four point strength can kick a tank. So it would consistently follow that three point strength matches the telekinesis, and can also lift and or throw a car.
Which implies that the various star ratings are approximately balanced. So a three star defence should be able to block a three star offence. Which happens to be Hiro’s defence rating.
Somebody, who can shrug off a car being dropped on him, probably does have a fair degree of resistance to bullets.
I will admit that I have no real evidence to support this, but… I’m not sure that I would posit that telekinesis and super strength scale up the same from zero to five stars for several reasons.
1. Telekinesis can potentially be used with much finer control than Super Strength. (Comics constantly have people with TK doing delicate work, sometimes even down to the molecular or, I suppose, atomic level).
2. Telekinesis has greater utility. (How often have you seen a super strong character- with no invulnerability, mind you- blocking multiple bullets? Yet it’s something that virtually every telekinetic in comics can seemingly instinctively do. I add the caveat “in comics” because of George R. R. Martin’s old Wild Cards series of books, wherein the Turtle had to build himself an armor plated shell so that he could maintain sufficient concentration to use his TK- but he seems to be the exception that proves the rule.)
3. Telekinesis can be used at range and, frequently, over a significant area.
Given all that, I would assume that each dot in TK does not correspond to as much strength and that each additional dot does not correspond to as much of an increase in strength; TK has far too much utility to be used on exactly the same scale.
I concur with your arguments in general. The star system is meant to be based on overall utility, after all. And telekinesis, is a lot more flexible by being remote operation, if nothing else. So a high rating in telekinesis could either be achieved by being very strong, without much in the way of extra frills, and possibly having limits on that range.
Or by being fairly strong, but having a lot of extra utility. The latter being what you are describing for traditional telekinesis. In Halo’s case though, she does not have traditional telekinesis. What she has is effectively an extra limb.
So her version of it is a lot closer to strength, than somebody who could stop multiple bullets, to use your example. Therefore, although I concede all your points, I still think Sydney’s strength is likely to be in the three point super-strength range.
But probably on the low end, rather than up the top. To reflect the fact that she can do more than just lift stuff she can get her hands on. Whereas Anvil may be at the upper end, and able to pick up a limousine or van.
Something else to consider. Can Mr Amorphous only lift stuff with super strength when in normal human shape? Or is he just as capable of picking up something extremely heavy, when he is using his stretch power?
If so, he will be functionally identical to Halo’s tentacle Of interest, although possibly co-incidentally, also having three point super-strength.
But three point super-strength probably does still equate to car-throwing level. So, even if you remove telekinesis from the argument, the overall guestimates remain as stated. They just have a bit less corroborating evidence.
…What if Mr. Amorphous’s strength only hits the 3 dot level when he assumes a rigid (triangular) shape? Is he even capable of doing that?
Not that I think that’s likely, but it’d be a weird little twist on his powers…
Well, this is very informative about Sydney’s pseudopod, in that it is precise enough and strong enough to block a speeding bollard. I wonder if it is geo-locked like her orbs, the proverbial immovable object, or just super strong? The former would mean that probably not even Maxima could escape if she wrapped them up in it.
In other news, I’m going to hazard a guess that Green hair guy is diet Magneto.
Sydney mentioned she could lift her car with it. So it’s strong and flexible. and doesn’t seem to lose strength at a distance.
Also it either:
1)Doesn’t seem to be directly connected to the orb in any way (so it wouldn’t get dragged down as she tried to lift something heavy
or
2) The orb is indeed somehow immovable unless the owner makes it move (supported by this page https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/370)
“Diet” Magneto? What? Do you mean like “Magneto on an iron-poor diet?”
:P
Give her an adamantium karambit and have Maxima do super-Silat. Then again, that’d pretty much just make Mach the Knife …
AFAIR, Superman’s highest concern ist to not kill, ever, and to do serious damage to an opponent if it could be helped. Thus, no martial arts or even serious fighting skill – he uses the most basic fighting style on purpose.
(I remember once when he lost his super strength, he was unable to knock out his (normal human) opponents because he was used/trained to slow down his jabs just before hitting the target so they would not kill.)
This does not track.
A person with greater martial skill has an EASIER time taking someone out without dealing serious damage. An untrained person is wailing about with raw, brute strength. That’s much more likely to produce unintentional injuries.
EGS addressed this recently. Grace is currently taking martial arts lessons so that she has options other than “let someone protect me” and “overkill”.
If Superman were completely untrained, there’d be a lot more death at his hands. No, he’s just animated with a poor skill because people like the idea of him as a basic brawler.
I’d rather see Superman as an immovable object (when hit) that could apply unlimited force (when hitting). That is different from someone whose skin would yield during a forceful contact with something else. I’d agree to what you say if Superman would be just a few times stronger than a human and otherwise alike.
If he would take extra care while gripping someone, he could use martial arts and then (only then) I’d agree with you. But given the following
– he just totally does not need it,
– it would require extra effort for him – simple, basic boxing with controlled movements/touching is easier,
– it would look ridiculous in comics :D,
– AFAIK, most martial arts were created for use against an opponent/attacker who does not know it so a seemingly weaker person can still stand a chance against a stronger attacker – now, who is stronger than Superman? Or has at least 1/1000 of his strength? Or at least looks like he/she could pose a threat against him and still have a human build and thus could theoretically be susceptible against a form of martial arts? Martial arts are less effective against machines…
– and Kandorians know a form of super-karate, Lois Lane learned it and used it a few times, it’s likely that Superman knows it, too – he just has no reason to ever use it, while I see reasons for him to not use it,
so I gladly stick to my opinion :)
The more training someone has, the more likely they are to be able to incapacitate you without dealing serious damage.
Martial arts are not all designed with the idea of beating a superior opponent.
Martial arts that focus heavily on the combat aspect focus on defeating opponents as efficiently as possible, whether you are stronger or weaker than the opponent.
Other martial arts focus on long term benefits of health and focus.
The simple fact is, however, the more training you have in using your body, the less likely you are to inflict an injury you don’t mean to inflict.
This is one of the main reasons that one of the ways they signify master martial artists in fiction is the ability to deal with enemies without seriously hurting any of them and only get into life and death matches when the opponent is also a master.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1Cb2d0ZUVs
Beat them once so they don’t get up and make you beat them again.
“Other martial arts focus on long term benefits of health and focus.”
The easiest way to tell the difference between “practical” styles & “artistic” styles is to look at the suffix attached to the name of the martial art: -jutsu is the combat/practical form, while -do is the artistic/meditative form. Pretty much all such styles have both aspects: Kendo is practiced differently from Kenjutsu, for example, but they both focus on the use of Katana.
unfortunately that labeling style only works with Japanese arts
“…Kandorians know a form of super-karate…”
It’s called Klukkor, if my memory serves correctly. Also, I forgot her name, but one of the prisoners in the Phantom Zone was an expert in that style & used it for committing serial murder…Hence her presence in the Phantom Zone.
Hmmm… EGS? A character named Grace? Does not ring a bell, please explain :)
EGS = El Goonish Shiv. A web comic. Grace is a powerful shapeshifter squirrel. Yep we’re still on squirrel power here.
Ah, thx! One of the web comics I don’t read… There are still some.
The characters include an androgynous mad scientist studying magic and alien tech, the aforementioned shapeshifting squirrel human alien hybrid girl, a guy who turns into several girl forms including a super heroine, a female clone of super heroine boy who can girlify or copy any form, the hammer queen, androboy’s cousin with disguise powers and a guardian angel form, a half immortal elf teacher, aliens, immortals, and hedgecats.
Ok
(You had me interested at “Hedgecats”)…
…I’d bet Hex would immediately run away from a fight with Grace…
That would depend on which form Grace was using. She has two forms that incapacitate with cuteness… ;)
That would just make it worse that he doesn’t know any martial arts. knowing alternatives to picking someone up with super strength (manly usefull aginst non super opponents that never where a threat to begin with) and going for a knockout. especially since, as Max pointed out, collateral damage from superpunches can be massive, and a concussion IS actually rather harmful to the body.
Most people assume that Superman is on our level but then expends some energy and is capable of his super powers. But what if Superman starts out at his super powered status and must expend energy to come down to our level? Always moving as slow as possible, walking as softly as possible, treating everything as gently as possible.
To me that’s always been the more interesting take on Superman’s psyche. That he’s more scared of accidentally killing someone then people are scared of him. If Superman hits you too hard: you’re dead; breathes too hard: you’re dead; stares too hard: you’re dead; doesn’t react to being punched: you broke your hand; moves too fast: you’re deaf. If Superman’s concentration slips for even the smallest amount then he’s causing some serious damage.
Yeah, that sounds about right, and does kind of fit with most of (the good) stories about him
Heck, for that matter, when he’s in his guise as Clark Kent, he has to *always* be particularly careful & gentle just moving around…He’ll rip out of his suit be just flexing a muscle just a little too much. Welp, so much for keeping his secret identity intact, huh?
Reference this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8
Michael Ironside: Best villain voice actor ever.
What, even up against James Earl Jones? :-O
Jones has the tone, but Ironside (as Darkseid) perfectly portrayed the indifference of a nigh-omnipotent villain.
Also I lost a lot of respect for Vader as a villain after the prequel-ology.
Perhaps he just needs a hug?
That’s an awesome clip but the should have shown the shockwave from the punch shattering every window for blocks and flipping over cars.
Yep. You can also reference to the “Man of Steel, woman of tissue paper” meme.
“Man Of Steel, Woman Of Kleenex.” by Phillip Jose Farmer.
Larry Niven, actually.
You are right and I am embarrassed.
Excellent point. To look at this another way, Superman is like a regular human being trying to live in a world where everybody / everything else is as tough as wet tissue paper. The constant level of restraint and self-control this demands of him is scary.
Exactly. I fully agree with the psyche aspect!
Now, would that be a pro or contra argument to/against using martial arts – all of which was developed by humans for use against other humans (of possibly more raw strength & weight)?
He is, in fact, the trope namer for the term “World of Carboard.”
In a preview/trailer for an episode of Justice League, a villain is fighting Superman, far from anywhere where Superman can get help (apparently because someone has always interrupted the fight before). Suddenly Superman goes into tranquil rage, glares at his attacker and says “I always feel like I’m fighting in a world of cardboard. I’ve always got to worry about who I’ll hurt, what property I’ll destroy, or what damage I’ll cause. Here, I HAVE NO SUCH PROBLEMS. Now you get to see what I can REALLY DO.” (Or something like it.)
it was Darkseid…I linked it above.
There was an episode of Justice League where Batman scolded Superman for not working on his fighting skills, to which Superman retorted that he didn’t need to because of his invulnerability, that he could take the hits which was his greatest superpower.
But the lack of fighting skills was one of his weaknesses in Superman: TAS, and Justice League. If he was a Batman level fighter there would be no tension when he fought a Darksied, etc.
as I mentioned in the math halo fight control is a finer display of strength than brute damage so supes holding back all the time in catching crooks leaving them unharmed is a better show of martial arts than bats going up against twenty guys and KOing them. one of the key lessons in martial arts is don’t fight unneeded battles or do pointless harm, “I can beat him but it would serve no purpose other than lowering me to his level” idea.
Ow ow OWWWW! Dislocated shoulder means a world of pain, never mind the landing this guy is going to get after Max’s backhand.
Also, maybe showing my ignorance, but can someone explain Hiro’s “sandbagging” line to me? Never heard that term before.
That’s not just a dislocation. The collar bone, shoulder and humerus are all going their separate ways. Goodby tendons and muscles as well. Major surgery and long painful therapy before he can pick his nose right-handed again. If ever.
Zack Tilly, the only reason the arm is still attached is simply because he has more muscles/flesh than a ‘normal’ person would have
The question is how do you perform surgery on someone with superhuman durability? Power tools?
Guess that’s why so many comic book characters have some sort of “healing factor.” The accumulation of injuries and scars and such.
‘Durability’ does not always mean ‘Impervious’
So? I’m talking about increased durability. How’s a doctor supposed to perform delicate surgery on someone who can take a telephone pole to the face and only have a broken jaw instead of being decapitated? Does he toss out the scalpel and try to stuff a circular saw in the guy’s mouth? Trade the suture gun for a nail gun or roofing staples? That’s gonna be a frigging mess.
They improvise and do what they can. Maybe they will petition the courts, to requisition a few of Lee Press on Nail’s claws, if they get trimmed for his life in prison. So surgeons can cut through impervious flesh. Something that could benefit Lee himself, so the courts may well oblige.
Perhaps every country will have a national super trauma centre. Staffed with a teleporter medic, to get super victims to care in time.
We already know that Archon itself has a super doctor. Perhaps there are other medical personnel who are especially qualified due to super powers? Say a telekinetic with sufficient ESP to see under the flesh, and who can operate directly on wounded tissue and organs. Bypassing any invulnerable skin or force field.
I can see diamond cutters and similar industrial strength tools being issued to key emergency rooms in major metropolises. And all supers will probably be reminded to provide regular stocks of their own blood, in the event that they have an unusual biochemistry.
Others might subject themselves to scrutiny by specialist university and medical hospitals. For instance Concretia may have some unusual treatments if she suffers an ailment. If they can overcome their fear of being poked by scientists. Plus risking revealing weaknesses to enemies or the government in general.
What ailments would affect Concretia? Spalding? Cladosporium infection? Aggregate expansion? Demineralization could cause problems too.
Rising damp? If she uses a rebar reinforced concrete form, she might get rust. If she has a fling with the Thing, she might get pregnant!
Or they could get help from people like this guy. (Harold, the guy carrying the metal head)
DaveB previously said that there are no power-cancelling abilities in this storyline.
No, he said there were no general all-compassing nullifiers
Of which Harold is the Trope-Defining Individual for that particular power… he can absolutely REMOVE ALL your powers (for a certain amount of time) or BOOST them to insane levels (also, for a limited time) and it doesn’t matter WHAT powers you have, you tangle with him… poof, they’re gone… ain’t squat you can do about it. so , no he would NOT work the same way in Dave’s universe, as he’s flat out said that there isn’t anything like an all-purpose power-nullifier…
Yeah, and what would Harry be doing? Be locked up with the no-good-nicks (villain and hero) for the duration of the sentence? That pretty much limits his effectiveness/usefulness, does it not?
Not entirely. Harold can manipulate powers granted by alien tech and “metahumans”/mutants but he doesn’t appear to be able to do anything about Hestia’s divine capabilities.
They looked at this in one issue of The Savage Dragon, at least a decade ago. Every bone in Dragon’s body was broken and healed in the wrong places, his healing factor. They had to get Mighty Man to break his bones again, in the ER, in order to set them properly.
Can you say “ouch?” I knew you could.
BTW, Check out MetaDocs, not a webcomic but available on Comixology, for a take on super powered emergency rooms.
Hey cool, thanks. I vaguely remember seeing MetaDocs on the shelf back in the day, but never checked it out.
I remember training that exact same move – and while it’s highly unlikely I’ll break or dislocate somebody’s arm, shoulder, and collarbone, what I can do is burst the brachial & axillary arteries & lymph nodes, and bruise/break the median & ulnar nerves, all of which route through the “weak” point between the biceps and triceps.
BL: unless this guy has super healing, he’s lost use of that arm, and could possibly bleed out internally, just based on that move (assuming the follow-on backhand didn’t actually snap his neck and kill him)
He was going toe-to-toe with the second toughest brick in Archon. Unless Max really cut loose, he’ll live. And if she had gone full power, All that would have flown was the mooks’s head.
I agree. And even if Maxima has overdone it, the circumstances entirely justified it. The life of one of her officers* was at risk. And these villains are clearly co-operating with each other. So share the consequences of their actions jointly.
* Police officer that is, regardless of her military rank.
I hope he has a “significant other” who can open ketchup bottles for him for the next several months…
and depending on where she hit him, maybe make him spaghetti too, so he can suck it up thru the straw the docs give him after wiring his jaw shut to enable it to heal correctly…
It means purposely not doing your best. In other words, Hiro’s been sparring with Maxima, and he though she was going all out against him, but she was really going easy on him.
Sandbagging in this case means holding back from doing your best. It’s considered a rude term among soldiers.
So, do you think he means holding back in Strength or holding back in skill level? Because holding back in strength is pretty standard in training matches of any type.
It is all a matter of degree. Super Hiro is obviously powerful enough to take a blow that can put him through a wall. So Maxima probably pushes him that hard. He now realises that she could punch him through a reinforced concrete bunker!
well, holding back the amount of force used is fine.
holding back the amount of skill used is an insult.
I think he refers to her in holding back in skill.
As she is one of the strongest supers he knew she was holding back in strength.
Sandbagging
Jiggawatt wears that shirt so much better than Major Kira ever would.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagging
“Sandbagging in billiards and other games, deliberately playing below one’s actual ability in order to fool opponents into accepting higher stakes bets, or to lower one’s competitive rating in order to play in a future event with a higher handicap and consequently have a better chance to win; the term has spread to chess, go and other such games.”
If he was right handed, he’s going to need to learn how to wipe his ass with his other hand from now on.
Try that sometimes. It’s even more difficult than writing with the wrong hand
For some reason, writing with the left hand always comes out backwards/mirrored for me
Thank you all for explaining :) It makes sense to me now.
I thought it was pretty good organisation of all those antagonists to show up right on schedule.
Not smart, though, to walk wide-eyed into an obvious trap like that, but they did all show up.
Sorry, but this is getting silly.
48 hours ago, as near as I can figure it, no-one even knew supers existed, ArcSwat was a small group of supers willing to take on Heatwave to control her and Sydney pretty much on spec, despite her obviously unsuitable attitude; and here come a whole bunch of them with costumes and highly visible powers who (mostly) seem to know each other?
I quite enjoyed this comic at first but I think I’m going to give it a sabbatical and see if it finds its way again. Spinnerette started out as an amusing Spider-Man joke and got increasingly screwy, this one seems to be straying down the same path.
That’s pretty much the whole point: Maxima (and probably the rest of Archon, right to the top) were going by false data, this is a huge wake-up call to them that the Good Guys are outnumbered (whether outclassed remains to be seen)
Nope. Jump back to the conversation with Joel before Sydney left for the bank. https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/76
Supers were public knowledge. They were just thought to be rather rare.
“Getting silly”? Dude, the whole superhero genre is patently ludicrous. DaveB’s stuff, on the other hand, is using a finer grade of handwavium than most, and quite a few of the least believable tropes are shouldered aside.
Yes, you still can ask questions like “How are any of their clothes not being destroyed?” and “Why aren’t most of these bad guys using their power to become very rich in perfectly legal ways?” and “Why isn’t Sydney interposing herself between Breakpoint and Jiggs?” but on the whole, Dave’s doing a good job at keeping things real without turning this into a 2 second fight that results in Max covered in a thick veneer of human puree.
On the contrary, Maxima is aware there is a discrepancy. As such, that makes this comic much more realistic than much fiction. There is much fiction which goes to lengths to explain the reason why things are happening. Despite the fact that, in real life, people are often unaware of the truth behind the events that are going on, in a crisis.
You have to work by what background information you have. If things are blatantly different to what you expect, then it is not silly. There is just something going on that you are unaware of. For those of us who are old enough to remember the planes hitting the Twin Towers on 9/11, we will recall that nobody knew what was happening.
Was this the first wave of an invasion of the United States? Was the same thing happening in other cities around the world? We certainly were not thinking, aha this is just a bunch of guys with pen knives who are able to use them to take over aircraft.
The president even had to take the same responses he would do in the event of a nuclear war! Taking to the air, to ensure continuity of government. Yet he had as much access to information, as anyone else. Sometimes, in life, we really do not know what is happening.
In this case, Maxima has revealed, in comic, that something is wrong, between the figures they know and the numbers of enemies in sight. And DaveB has confirmed, in comments, that some of it will be revealed by the end of the fight.
In other words, this is a case of good writing, not bad. It is making us stretch our imaginations and try and figure out the solution. But, like Agatha Christie, Dave is not about to ruin the ending by spoon-feeding us too much of the solution, in advance.
What I recall of “9/11” is tuning in to a chatgroup (“irc channel”) full of very well connected people I used to, well, be a regular member of, and one of the first things I got from the ruckus was footage of the second plane plunging in. My first reaction was awe, awe for the sheer audacity of a master stroke right out of the evil antagonist book. Next was fear, fear for what the USoA government –not the attackers– would do next. And we know that now: Start two wars in separate sovereign countries in retalliation to an action organised by some private citizen. That, and a very long list of crimes against the rules of war, against its own citizens, against liberty and privacy and justice the world over, and a lot of other very, very bad things. Most amazingly, it got its fellow NATO signatories as well as other countries everywhere to do similarly bad to very bad things.
There was little uncertainty. To me it was immediately obvious it probably wasn’t an invasion, for who would be doing the invading, nevermind hold the territory afterward? That requires moving amounts of people around that’s not going to remain unnoticed, even before satellites, nevermind the minor problem of being outgunned by the citizenry, n’mind the military.
Instead it was rather clearly a precision strike to rile up the government into lashing out. And that it did, to perfection. The planner read the American People and its Government like a book and made good use of that, on a shoestring budget to boot. Nobody wants to say it because getting blindsided like that just smarts, and much moreso for being the most technologically-developed country on earth. But that’s what it is: Just this one guy organised a foreign country into starting multiple wars, and indirectly trigger the mess that’s left after the “Arab spring”. And the “developed” world fell for the ruse, hook, line, and sinker. In fact, the enthousiasm shown means various people positively wanted to milk the excuse for all it was worth.
I’ll buy that for most people this sort of perspective is foreign, but, you know, neither action nor reaction was really that new in kind.
Indeed, I overstated that, by saying “invasion”, although that was what a lot of normal people were wondering that. Even if informed opinion was not. But do not forget that there was also the anthrax attack. And the whole thing was a hell of a lot more effective and well-planned than anything which had gone before.
So I think it fair to say that there were a lot of unknown elements involved. Which is comparable to the questions relating to the above fight. We have informed opinion as to the causes, but do not know for sure. Nor did we, in real life, until we had the benefit of hindsight.
I was following it from minutes after the first aircraft hit. I was working for an organisation which monitored such things, so we were getting a slight jump on it even going onto the TV. My first question was “what make and model?”, but the reports were not even aware of that at that stage.
If it was a two-seater aircraft and it would be a minor story. But as soon as we got the video feed coming in, it was apparent that it was significantly more. And so was watching live when the second aircraft came in, and escalated the entire thing to a totally new, unknown level.
Clearly it was a hijacking, but there were multiple ones, including the Pentagon. How many more were there? Of the aircraft which were not responding, how many were under hijack control? What about Canada? Were European cities next? Or Australian?
The reason why I drew on the word ‘invasion’ was because it felt like an invasion of terrorists. There was no other comparable word in between ‘terrorist attack’ and ‘invasion’. It was a unique situation, and even our language did not have a word to summarise it.
In the aftermath, after the first mail attack, there was the question about as there going to be wave after wave of anthrax attacks? No matter how well informed you felt you were at the time, you did not have the answers to those questions.
In the post-crisis analysis, you could get more and more pieces of information to gradually answer them. But at the time the buildings are on fire, everything was still up in the air. Including Air Force One.
By the noise-bubble and Max’ charging of that backhand, that dude is gonna have some seriously dented armor. Also, love how Dave uses the comments of his fans to better his comic. Right now I’m kinda proud to see Syd being a serious nuisance to those villains.
If you look at the top corner of the last panel, he is no longer wearing that gold boiler plate anymore
Problem with Sydney becoming a serious nuisance: she becomes a serious target
As Sydney would say “Bring it!”.
Doubt Sydney would be cocky/over-confident in her abilities (or herself) to say that
Really? Is this the same Sydney that challenged Math and took on a bank robber?
“There there Maxima, I’m sure you tried your best.”
It’s a good thing she has a serious shield than
Sydney is trying to draw fire. That shield took a blast that was very impressive, to say the least. And she and Max had time to test it before the demonstration. They are both confident it will keep Halo safe and provide a bunker for any SWAT member who needs one.
The sheild is also, apparently teleport proof and follows the Star Trek law of ‘can’t just beam bombs onto the ship’.
Because if it wasn’t for Asgard ethics, you KNOW that’s how SGC would solve every space-fight.
Probably not workable in today’s fight, but in the future a bad guy could try a new tactic against the Sydney Scoville Super Shield ™. Namely, paint. Just cover it with something opaque and you seriously limit her ability to function. The only way to clear it off would be to drop the shield and reform it. This opens her for attack in the interval. (this assumes paint actually sticks to an energy construct)
Clever ploy. She could get around the problem with her tele-presence, but then she would not be able to use the offensive orbs.
Although, if she could get to a spot with some cover, she could just drop the shield for a moment, and let the paint fall off, then re-form it. But that would leave her vulnerable so, again, your idea has merit.
No sneaking off and becoming an advisor to evil masterminds. We need you on the side of light!
Eh, it’s not really any kind of *new* tactic. Spiderman’s been using the ‘ol webbing blindfold trick for years. Even so, there are countless other examples in real life & fiction that makes good use of the “blind your foe” tactic, right back to the first time somebody threw a fistfull of dirt (or sand).
I am damned sure someone will have used it, maybe even hunting woolly mammoths, at some point in pre-history. But it is only a useful tactic if someone thinks to use it. I was merely giving due credit to O.B. Juan for picking an appropriate one.
While I’m a devoted follower of the “paintball an unstoppable foe’s eyebits” school of strategy I think Halo’s shield isn’t going to hold paint well. It’s probably mostly frictionless and is definitely reconfigurable. A quick shrink or grow would shake off obscuring substances faster than a dog shaking off mud in your kitchen. Then the dog curses like a boatload of sailors and lighthooks your face…
You hope she lighthooks your face, given that she wanted to name it the hentorb she is aware of far worse things she could use it for.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/793
for names that got shotdown
That’s only worse for the unwilling and in public.
Enemies can try other variations on the theme. Pulling a tarpaulin over her, for example. Or making vines grow completely entangle it. Or making an illusion which simulated sticky paint. Or reducing visibility, by some other means, such as invoking darkness, shadows or concealing fog.
I wonder… how durable is that guy with the rusty iron breast plate? He bleeds from the fight with Hiro. And Max hit his upper arm so hard that the chain that holds his breast plate broke. Given that, I’d halfway expect his collarbone piercing through his skin…
Hiro is also bleeding from that fight
Hmm, turning into lightning and then jumping through Breakpoint to a point behind her would be a wonderful way to nullify (and counterattack at the same time) Breakpoint’s attack.
Then again, I’m not the one with superpowers or being hit by a sonic blast…
Loud noises tend to disrupt concentration on their own. Now imagine noise so loud as to make your skull ring like a church bell. It’s hard to think tactically when all you can think is “OMFG MAKE IT STAHP!”
Tell me about it. I’d seriously love to change the smoke detectors here. If there was a real fire, at least the dog and I would die, maybe the cat too.
Turning into lighting is a really powerfull thing.
I’m pritty sure it costs quite abit of concentration to activate
Or, maybe she has to retain concentrate to remain in human form
*nods*
That can be a problem, for some folks.
Wags finger…
Halo: Nah nah nah. Not I’m my house…
Man, Hiro’s looking pretty rough. The facial expression and body language in panel five seems to suggest he’s pretty tired or punch drunk too.
I suspect he’s gonna be the first of ArcSwat to go down.
Interesting: Breakout Sister didn’t throw the barrier at Jiggs, she dropped it and let her soundwave move it
Yea, I noticed that to, very nice
She threw it and Sydney used lighthook to deflect it in panel 6.
No, look again: she clearly dropped it into the sound tunnel (that is an overhand drop motion with her left hand)
Check panel six where Sydney says “denied”, there is the “whack” and the speed lines change direction, also lighthook is right there at that point. Also Dave said he rewrote the page and it now shows Sydney “stuffing the enemies attacks”.
The direction shift is more consistent with something being tossed or dropped into jet wash or a firehose blast before Sydney swats it with the lighthook.
Yeah, Sydney deflected/blocked the barrier thingie, but Breakout Sister didn’t throw it
Merriam Webster’s definition of throw
: to cause (someone or something) to move suddenly or forcefully to or away from a particular place.
:-)
Yeah pretty much stretching things which could also describe firing something there.
Look up “acoustic levitation”. Using sound waves to support and move objects. No surprise Breakpoint would have that in her tool kit. It would explain how she got enough range to toss a barricade at Max back at the start of the fight. Full-strength throw and a sonic boost. It’s above Harem’s word balloon icon.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1280
Considering that villain is (presumably) extra tough and strong, I’m now wondering what may be required to RESET his shoulder.
Maybe a doctor with healing abilities?
Calling Dr. Amtrack!
Depending on how hard Max hit him, that’s not going to be a problem
Those muscles may very well have teared along with the rest of his arm
I’m more surprised that Halo didn’t just wrap the pseudopod around Breakpoint’s neck. That’d stop the screaming. Shake and break.
She’s not screaming, she’s projecting the soundwaves from her hand
But yes, grabbing her, either by the neck or just on her foot to make her fall, would probably be a good next step
I do love the fact that after initially staying on the sidelines (during which time she easily KO-ed two guys) Halo is fully out in the thick of the fight, despite being a completely untrained rookie who has joined on the same day. This shows that while they are military, they essentially operate on their own rules, which is essentially needed for most super teams (and hilarity).
Best thing about Halo, while she can freely use the lighthook effectively, no one can really touch her while she has that shield (hence why that guy says ‘distract’, as this is probably the most effective counter to Halo).
But that shield is why all good super teams should have a shield breaker as part of their lineup.
Also, Sydney is following Maxi’s new orders: Operation “Pull Aggro”
And apparently being successful at it too.
Arc Swat is still trying to keep their attacks non-lethal, in a “we’re so tough, we didn’t break a sweat” kind of way. If the Legion of Should-Have-Left-When-the-Normals-Evacuated starts doing serious damage, everyone can fall back to Sydney’s shield while Maxima vaporizes them.
Even if not, while Maxima is the most powerful, the rest of the team is nothing to sneeze at and not all of them are great on discipline. At a short port, could Harem materialize a pipewrench in someone’s skull? Is Heatwave close to turning someone to ash yet? What kind of mayhem could Sydney unleash without considering the consequences. Finally, an angry Dabbler could serve a different flavor of nightmare for each opponent. Those are just the people most likely to cease exercising restraint, in my humble opinion (okay, egotistical opinion).
SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Sorry, but don’t ask what type of hilarity or pain Sydney could unleash without thinking about it.
She’s already given road rash to at least one of the enemy. She didn’t think of using it against Breakpoint, or it might have been as effective, and stopped the Sonic attack as well. And she still used a very good counter to the thrown block of cement (The yellow painted bumper)
She has not (YET !) started flinging about her book of epithets and catcalls to annoy and severely antagonise the enemy. Do we ‘really’ want to see her own teammates have to put their hands on their ears to block words they didn’t even know existed ? (And make the Flaming head of Dabbler’s Doom freeze in terror ??)
Every time I’ve visited this page in the past couple days, Avast! has thrown a fit.
I don’t see a hole where a missing advertisement would fit, but you might want to review your sponsors.
I take that back. I turned AdBlockPlus on, and opened the last page on a new tab. Avast! threw a fit again.
Avast! says this is the culprit.
hxxp://cdn2.movetoclarksville.com/k?t=931911125
I don’t see anything in the source of the page itself. At least not with a simple Find.
Avast! throws a warning before I see anything else on the page, and I don’t seem to be having this problem on an unrelated ‘site.
Avast is one of the 3 best free anti-viruses but it isn’t perfect. Probably a false positive but I’d check it out anyway. Better safe than sorry.
See DaveB‘s reply to a similar point onpage 3 of the comments. Should anyone get any more warnings, please be sure to mention it. Ideally by email to Dave, as he requests:
grrlpowercomic@gmail.com
The sooner the better, as I imagine he will not want to keep the adverts turned off, for longer than is necessary. If it is one of the adverts, which is causing the problem, there should be none. But, in the event that it is something else, the more information that we can provide Dave, the better.
Should anyone’s warning message be of a type that might vanish, before you get to make a note of the error details, do not forget that you can hit your ‘print screen’ button (on a PC anyhow). You can then paste the image into something else, such as an art program or Word document, to examine at your leisure.
You could even save yourself typing details out, if you attach that in your email to Dave.
“After a quick buff, Maxima would be pretty good at distracting Halo.”
Now there’s an intriguing idea…
/nominates Guesticus to apply the polish, liberally and thoroughly!
You go ahead with that.
I’ll be over here, in this bunker… cheering you on
Totally worth it ;)
can you get my hide next while your at it some spots are hard to check for wash completion or scrub with claw and tail properly (and makes it totally not trying to feel up /harass max)
I dunno; Max is pretty buff already.
Turtle Wax & a shammy cloth, anyone?
Polishing compound, carnuba wax, and a random orbital buffer… Then a welding helmet in case the sun comes out.
1) does Jem there have her holograms on speed dial?
2) I would’ve liked to see Jiggawatt holding her ears, but look up and just blast Breakpoint with her face.
The girl with the sonic powers might be able to defeat Sydney.
As far as I can tell, her shield dosn’t stop sound, so a sonic attack might possibly work against her.
It muffled the blast of Maxima’s Big Blast to safe levels.
But Breakout Sister may be able to adjust the resonance so as to cause the Bubble to pop like a ripe zit, or make it as though Sydney stuck her whole body inside Big Ben at midnight on New Years Eve
Resonance only effects physical structures. The shield is made from energy.
And we can asume the shield is constantly being generated. Something has to keep that energy solid. So even if you could make it pop through resonance, that doesn’t overload the generator (like dealing enough damage would do), and thus, it can be generated again right away
Unless during the time between it ‘popping’ and reforming, the sound wave continues to it’s target and Sydney is forced to cover her ears
The issue here is that resonance does not have to be a dangerous amplitude- if the frequency could pass through her shield, it could quickly become dangerous and lead to incapacitation.
which, if the shield orb is as ultra-tech as we are all assuming it to be, that type of weapon/tactic will have been foreseen by it’s designers and thus countered well before it reached that lethal level, thus… it acts as a shield…
Possibly- I’ll refrain from guessing how Halo’s powers actually work for now. Even assuming they could protect her from a resonance attack (which I think is somewhat doubtful- amplitude I would believe, including a step-down function; harmful frequencies are something that change to a degree with every potential user), are you also positing that it could protect the ground she’s standing on, her clothes, the pip-boy she’s wearing, etc, etc? Given that Halo’s power isn’t invulnerability (that’s Achilles), that would seem a bit of an overpowered cop-out.
I suspect we won’t be given an opportunity to discover which of us is right, though- I doubt Breakpoint is going to be given the opportunity to attempt to zap the noobie.
The attack would be prevented from affecting anything inside the shield, so that would include all those things.
Mind you, we have yet to establish if Halo’s shield extends into the ground, under normal circumstances. It is possible that she forms a hemisphere, and is actually standing on her shield, just above the ground height.
The absolutely best version she might have would allow the shield to pass through the ground (and vice versa), as it is not harmful for Halo. Just like the air, light and sound. But only get stopped when any of those become dangerous. Such as when carrying too much energy with them, or being at too high a pressure.
My problem with this- and, I know, not my story so I don’t really have any say in how it works- is that what you posit makes Sydney’s shield effectively MORE powerful than Achilles invulnerability. Her force bubble is already incredibly tough, can change size, and allows her to wander about and use other powers simultaneously while she is within it.
Mind you, I am all for Halo having some vulnerabilities, so it would not bother me if she was weak to it.
But, as with all these things, what is important is the story, and how well it hangs together. What determines whether the shield is permeable is whether that is convenient to the plot, long term. If it is, then the mechanics get built with that in mind. If not, it goes the other way.
Things only become over powered if the writer is unable to balance the results of their choices with the interest levels of the story. As you say, if Halo were totally invulnerable, all the time, it could get boring fast. And with the tentacle and PPO able to go through the shield, that is something DaveB needs to be mindful of.
But, even then, she would have to keep her shield up permanently to do that. Which I can’t see her doing 24/7. Plus, if she wants to make some hostages completely safe, she would have to lower the shield, to let them in. And various other things can be done, to keep jeopardy high and stakes interesting.
It does not always have to be the life or death of the protagonist which is at stake, for that. Fortunately, otherwise Achilles would be a very boring character!
Exactly. What I am proposing is that Sydney’s shield probably is very powerful and able to block most things that would be traditionally considered an attack- including coherent light and the shockwave of a high-amplitude sound blast. Making it all-encompassing, though, is overkill and limits your story-telling options.
While I agree that placing others (who are not covered by the shield) in danger has the potential to (very temporarily) sidestep the shield’s utility by making her shut it down, I think that is a false argument regarding the power level of the shield. The very fact that she can use it to shield others- pretty much at will- gives it far greater utility than Achilles invulnerability.
Very true. Mind you he is a lower-ranked hero. And we know that Sydney only rates as low as she does because she is very inexperienced. Ultimately her rating could go above Maxima’s.
Were it not for my confidence in DaveB, I would be concerned. Primarily because of a formative experience when reading the E.E.Doc Smith Lensmen novels, at a young age (somewhere in the single digits). The heroes were very powerful. Very very powerful. And so had to face even more powerful foes.
But, because of the nature of the story, where it turned out that each end-of-novel villain turns out to just be a lesser pawn in a greater scheme, the power levels had to jump. Again, and again.
Eventually it got to the point where the powers were so vast that it became almost meaningless. Not to mention becoming fairly predictable and therefore boring.
First off, I think Dave will easily avoid the predictable and boring, simply by lateral thinking and comedy. Secondly he likes to explore different things to normal stories. We will be mostly seeing the things in between combats, so the fact that she is very powerful need not impact on that aspect, one iota.
Thirdly it can be interesting to see what life is like for the most powerful super, in a world with many supers. Whilst I did find Super Man’s level of power to be too over the top, which put me off him in general, the rest of his package, and setting, was very interesting.
So, although I did not buy Super Man comics, the films were enjoyable because of the non-combat aspects to them, more than the fighting. And there is less likelihood of getting bored at a green rock keep on cropping up, if not following that many stories.
So, even for characters at the top of the pecking order, things can be interesting. Currently that appears to be Maxima. Bit she may loose the crown. And not necessarily to Halo. Professor X could turn the pair of them into hand puppets, if he wanted to. As just one example.
Which, is of course, the fourth point. Invulnerability to physical and energy attacks does not mean invincibility, nor safety from even fairly minor spells, psionic attacks and other powers, which can bypass the defences.
What it does allow though is for Sydney to always joke and fool around safely, without us feeling that she is only surviving due to writer fiat. Which makes her an ideal protagonist for comic relief. So will suit Grrl Power very well.
And, when Dave has need to put her in danger, he is smart enough to find a way. Just look at Shadow Boxer as an example.
One point that you may not have considered, as regards Achilles’s invulnerability though. Which Halo’s shield definitely does not share, or surpass. As far as is known he cannot be harmed by anything. Ever.
As best I can figure he could be the one putting the chairs on the table, at the restaurant at the end of the universe. Trying to figure what he will do for his next gig.
This is not a counter to any of your arguments, per se- overall I agree with you- it’s just a note. If Sydney’s shield does confer the absolute immunity to physical harm that you imply, then it should be ranked exactly as high as Achilles because nothing external to the shield can harm her in any way. If it does not confer absolute immunity, then positing that attacks that don’t rely on direct-damage to cause harm should not be so hard to accept and would justify it being ranked ‘only’ five dots.
With all of this going on, it seems like the perfect opportunity to gauge the heroes abilities. Such an individual could then sell that information to the highest bidder(s) and make several fortunes.
I suspect that that could be what’s happening here.
The problem there is that Maxima made it clear she would not allow any villains to remain free
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1142: Either you’re dead, or you’re in prison.
These guys directly attacked her team, giving Maxima even more reason to take them out
Guy by the tree (from a few weeks ago, the guy with the big X scar on his face, who doesn’t have a name yet) was never noticed by the heroes, and may well be gone by now.
You are mixing up the villains, but yea the Mafia-looking guy was there. But the first time we saw him he was confidently saying “Challenge accepted”. Just after having seen Maxima nuke the firing range. That does not sound like somebody who would slink off quietly.
If a person is just observing and not in combat or engaged in any illegal activity, how are they a villain? Is it a crime to watch?
Wait, wait, wait- now we have to follow the cops around whenever they go out to stop a crime? Or is it that we can get arrested for that? Yorp, I think your canid nature is influencing your typing.
heh, that’s one way of deterring “ambulance chasers”.
though i “think” that it’s meant to be a “we can’t PROVE the person was here to act as the get-away driver, but he’s in an unusual spot for a random-passerby, so we’ll take them in as well, and sort it out later” kind of charge, in order to make sure that the cops snagged ALL of the criminals present and not let a guy that claimed to only be coincidentally “passing thru the area, and wanted to *Help* the cops out” as a major crime was taking place and NOT running away like the REST of the panicked populous would do… (yeah, right you were “just” passin’ thru… i got some ocean-front property in Nevada i’d like to sell you…)
Clearly puppy meant to type ‘failing‘, but his claw slipt :P
Well concluded.
Mind you, some folks just like chasing cars!
Hm for sound to get through it, it would need to vibrate the shield which then pass on the energy to the air inside.
So, here’s a question. Lets say Maxima and instead of actually trying to beat her up they simply stopped the blood flow to her brain by pinching off an artery or just holding the blood back. Or, lets say they kept her from drawing a breath of air? Would her super… (organs?) be stronger than the telekinetic or is it conceivable a crafty spoon bender could defeat Maxima.
Er, “Lets say Maxima gets in a fight with a telekinetic and instead…” Don’t know what happened there.
Sounds like me sometimes: figures type faster than the brain, so tend to skip words
But good question: seeing how Maxi’s skin would prevent someone from doing that physically
Anything that allows telekinesis to actually enter the body, no matter how small an amount, makes the telekinetic a walking death spell. Two easy examples:
Squish the brain = death / stroke at best (less strength than the hand strength of a normal adult).
Detach the retina = near-permanent blindness (even easier, a newborn could do it if they could reach inside)
These sorts of things also make intangible characters insanely dangerous in a non-balanced universe – go intangible and drop any handy object on someone’s brain to kill them.
One web serial (Worm, parahumans.wordpress.com) even had a name for the “powers can’t enter the body” effect: the Manton effect. Parahumans who could bypass the Manton effect with anything were greatly feared, and for good reason.
Well, if you think about it, they wouldn’t be totally unbeatable. Maxima could still hit them with a plasma blast and the best they could do would be to throw something in the way. If you think about it though, telekinetics would be super powerful. They essentially have super strength (that they can use at a distance), they can fly, they are more or less impervious to physical objects, can turn anything into a projectile (imagine the change from a soda machine being turned into a machine gun), they could even theoretically animate people or objects like puppets, and they’ve got awesome tricks for dinner parties.
It’d also be interesting to see her against someone who can project hallucinations. I’m imagining Dabbler seeing all her friends as demons.
Dabbler is a demon herself. Maybe you mean Maxima?
The only demon we have seen her interacting with, via her flashback memory, she clearly was not on good terms with. Although it would be funny to see someone trying to freak her out by showing a bunch of demons, only to have her rush up and embrace one of them.
“Aunt Corruptiana, how are you? Have you come to claim these souls? You can have any of them except Maxima, she is my personal challenge.”
Dabbler is part Succubus
Succubi are demons
Yes… and clearly she has demon enemies too.
Yup. That will be why I was indicating that her aunt would also be a demon.
And please leave Halo as well Aunt Corruptiana… I rather like her and she seems to think a lot like me. It will be so much fun to have her help in giving my personal challenge conniption fits and wishing she could actually be RID of us
If you arei nterested GURPs Psionics (3rd ed.) has rules for the tk attack you brought up.
And D&D3.5 has (in the Expanded Psionics Handbook) ‘Dissipating Touch’ (disruptive teleport), ‘Baleful Teleport’ (same, only more powerful/difficult), ‘Crystallize’ (‘Metacreativity’ power, turns the subject into crystal; if dispelled, the subject is unharmed), ‘Decerebrate’ (teleport away part of the victim’s brainstem, leaving them a vegetable), ‘Psychic Crush’ (telepathy; leaves the victim dying), (in the Complete Psionic) ‘Cranial Deluge’ (‘Psychometabolism’; causes the victim’s head to explode from internal pressure) and ‘Intellect Bomb’ (blows up the victim’s head; the smarter they are, the more powerful the blast).
Green-hair in the last panel reminds me of a nasty villain I drew up called Rollerball Murder. Technically, his only ability was short-range no-Newton-third-law magnetism. He carried around a backpack full of steel ball bearings. From that he could form armor (bearings or any handy metal), fly (push himself around with the metal), turn his arm into a fast-repeating coil gun (think hypersonic machine gun), spin balls in hypersonic orbits around him (try engaging that in hand-to-hand combat), move over metal surfaces at ridiculous speed (he loved railroad tracks), completely screw electronics, have super strength (telekinesing his own armor), etc. He later learned nasty tricks using induction, ferrofluids, and, with the help of a gadgeteer, a magnetically pumped laser. His power-stunt versatility made him very dangerous. The only general super type that would mess him up easily was mentalists, which seem to be in short supply in this universe.
Magneto from X-Men would have been a lot more effective if he had ever thought to do any of those things.
I personally would carry a bag of iron filings as well, because they work better to make reinforced armor, and could make an instantly lethal sandstorm (iron storm?) around the user.
Personally I think he reminds me of a somewhat more manly looking Hazama Terumi.
That’s probably just because of the green hair though, although they both wear black Hazama has a nice suit as opposed to a jacket. Oh well.
It occurs to me that Maxima would be a little more interesting if we could visually see how her stats are distributed at any given time. Like, maybe her skin color could change or something. I mean, yeah, it would make her slightly weaker to people who figure out the pattern, but that isn’t exactly a bad thing from a characterization perspective, and it would be something to better engage readers with her. Just a thought.
Interesting that the skyhook is so tough that it can deflect several hundred pounds of cement without moving. That’s not even brick wall tough, that’s like steel wall tough.
agreed that it would be nice to see, perhaps “invisible” power-bars above her head… then again, that kind of mechanics-reveal might be neat from a “looking behind the curtain” perspective, it might also distract from the story itself
WAIT A MINUTE! Why is Hiro doing Achilles job? Sydney needs to yank him out of the rubble and toss him at Breakpoint. If you trivialize his only ability, you’re gonna give him a complex.
You know, I’m not sure Achilles can get a complex. I mean, what if he’s not so much invulnerable as he is unchangeable. Perhaps his attitude is as fixed as his hair.
Very interesting thought you have.
Now if it is true that would make him resistant to if not immune to telepathic attack.
if that doesn’t his lack of a recognizable brain might.
Well we know he can learn.
He learned the names of everyone in Archon, after he got his powers.
Learning changes the brain (memorys are stored in physical connections)
So we know his brain, and thus probably his mind, isn’t fully rigid (he’d be like Dory from finding nemo if it was. Unable to remember anything)
DaveB: I actually like the idea of Supes just being a basic brawler, relying mostly on his super strength and super speed rather than on esoteric and specialized technique. Superman knowing some sort of weird Kryptonian martial arts on top of his super powers would just be too much.
Most people don’t need to join a class to know how to fight, or even fight well. Think back to when you were still going to school- think of the trouble-making kids who regularly got into fights. Throwing a punch or a kick or simply doing violence to others is, sadly, not difficult and quite natural to most people. I’m not saying that the study and discipline of martial arts has no value, though- precisely brawlers lack the refinement, finesse, subtlety and discipline actual students of martial arts have.
Supes having incredible amounts of super strength, super speed, and invulnerability is more than enough. He may be an untrained brawler but- depending on the continuity- he’s (usually) not an *inexperienced* one, and experience and practice count a lot, maybe even more than specialized knowledge and techniques (“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” – Bruce Lee). His other powers also give him unusual attacks: for example, flight means he can dive-kick-land on-stomp a villain feet first suddenly from a great height, usually ending with him standing on said villain with some sort of heroic, arms-crossed and cape-waving pose.
On the topic of “boring” brawlers: from the game Street Fighter III- 3rd Strike, we have the hidden character of Q, a mysterious, robotic mystery man in the classic (or cliche) hat and trenchcoat getup. In a game filled with trained, disciplined martial artists, Q’s very basic, unrefined brawler fighting style stood out. His moves consisted of simple, undisciplined punches and kicks, brute force grabs, throws, shoulder tackles, etc. It wasn’t just that contrast that made him stand out; his untrained style also made it clear that he was innately pretty strong and tough, especially when manhandling someone like Ryu or the gigantic Hugo with such rough moves. Check out videos of him on YouTube.
Nomather how good you know how to punch someone, you still won’t stand a chance against someone who ACTUALLY knows how to fight.
The only reason Superman can get away with it is because he’s that much stronger, faster, and invincibleer than his opponents
The ultimate example here is, offcourse, Math vs Anvil. Martial artists vs super powerd Brawler
But that’s the point: We ARE talking about Superman. That’s the topic of DaveB’s blog for this update.
This reminds me of a classic Superboy/Legion of Super-Heroes story: the debut of the Karate Kid (also of Princess Projectra, Ferro Lad, and Nemesis Kid). Karate Kid, like Math, isn’t at all superhuman. In Karate Kid’s case, he has studied and mastered all earthly martial arts, from the eponymous karate to judo. To prove himself worthy of Legion membership, he challenged Superboy to a sparring match. He was throwing blows left and right, even dodging around the young Supes and managing to throw him. But of course, Supes was holding back for fear of hurting Karate Kid. Karate Kid could chop through metal thanks to technique and peak human athletic ability, but all of his blows didn’t do a thing to Supes, even if they seemed to embarrass Superboy. Supes soon ends the fight by catching and throwing aside the Kid, but he decides in favor of his Legion membership for being able to give him a workout.
And to be clear, studying martial arts does not immediately mean knowing how to fight. Going back to the school days example, think of the kids who end up taking classes to be able to defend themselves against bullies. It’s FAR from given their training will save them from getting beat up. In fact, the sparring of most martial arts classes still involves rules and holding back; the combatants aren’t there to hurt their opponent. But that’s exactly the intention in a real fight.
You can’t compare self defence classes to martial arts.
Those classes are what, maybe an hour a week for a year? It takes years to learn martial arts, decades to master it.
What I’ve seen from those self defence classes, they focus on confidence. Which is the best way to people from coming after you in those settings (except for actually beating them, but you can’t learn that in a few weeks)
And I don’t agree with that sparring in martial arts is holding back. You don’t go all out, but that’s not the same as holding back.
Not going all out means not finishing the armlock. Both involved know at such a point that there is a winner, so no need to go further.
You only hold back when one of the 2 is clearly better than the other. Than you hold back to ensure the sparring lasts longer than 2 seconds
yeah, there’s a scene in another web-comic i read called “leftover soup” that deals with exactly that topic : it started here: https://leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=29 but for me, this is the interesting scene: https://leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=86 and the very next page as well…
I love that comic, and those scenes. Plus it does make a good point.
As a long-time practitioner of several martial arts, I have deep reservations about self-defense classes. The fundamental concept is sound- teaching confidence and encouraging students to stop being victims- but the idea that six months or even a year of training, no matter how consistent, would be sufficient to make you capable of defeating an opponent without a substantial serving of luck is just, frankly, ludicrous. One of the main benefits to self-defense classes is not any specific move-and-counter; it is that it encourages a victim to do something when attacked, even if it is the wrong thing. Statistically, you are much more likely to survive any hostile encounter by doing something than you are by doing nothing or by capitulating to your attacker’s desires.
Thanks, now you got me hooked on another comic
Again, that’s besides the point. Where Superman is just so super in the superpower category he’s more-or-less beyond the need for specialized hand-to-hand training. From a character design perspective, he’d be too much if some form of martial arts was part of his superheroic repertoire alongside everything else. Simply put, he fights well without particular instruction/as a brawler because of the extreme levels of his strength, speed and invulnerability.
Which is fine in a world with one super and a few billion weak mortals. But if in a world with multiple supers, some of whom may be equal in power, or even stronger, then that argument fails. And there are plenty of genre acceptable plot lines where that can happen even in a lonely super setting.
Take cloning or other replication, as one path that this could occur in. Another is the fact that he is just a normal person from his world of origin. Which opens up multiple other paths. Time travellers could evacuate the population of Kyrpton, pre-destruction, and bring them back to the present day.
Or contact opening up with an alternate Earth, where Krypton was never destroyed. Or even the possibility that Krypton was not unique. There could be dozens,hundreds or thousands, of other planets where the normal citizens are beyond even Kryptonians in power!
Every instance where supers come close to each other in overall capability, gives situations where martial training can give enough of an advantage to make the difference between victory and defeat. If Lex Luthor were sensible, the next time he made a copy of Super Man, he would not just throw him blindly at him, in some dumb scheme or other.
He will take the clone/copy somewhere that he can get extensive martial arts training. And will use his superior intellect to devise ways that the traditional training can be optimised to compliment the laser vision, and other super abilities, to be even more effective. Then the battle will be between a master martial artist Kryptonian and an untrained one!
The only thing which would give Super Man an edge is his previous combat experience. Which may not be enough. Mind you, if he came up against alternate Earth Kryptonians, or time-travellers, who had both the training and super-combat experience, he would be way outclassed. By all of them.
He would pay the price for his complacency, in assuming that he would always be the biggest fish in the pond.