Grrl Power #222 – Rhythmic gymnastics deathmatch
I made Heavenly Sword up on the same panel I first drew her (guilty admission, that happens a lot) but obviously since then I’ve had weeks to think about her powers. She can obviously can create blades of varied shapes along sword like objects, probably including an actual sword, but evidently she can to extend her powers along any linear object like that ribbon whip. It would work with an actual whip, what about a cat of nine tails? What about the landing skip of a helicopter, or a helicopter blade? Assuming she could figure out how to remain in contact with it without loosing her hand, that is. What about an elevator cable? She has a lot of potential with such a seemingly limited power. That’s the fun of limited powers, thinking of cool ways to make use of them. Power stunts. If you enjoy that sort of thing in novel form, I recommend Playing for Keeps, it’s all about using seemingly pathetic powers in creative ways. Sometimes I wish I had given Sydney a much more limited set of powers for that reason but there’s fun to be had both ways.
Someone suggested that Dabbler’s ineffectiveness in this fight has to do with keeping it non-lethal, and that’s absolutely part of it. Dabbler could be the hero in many different genres of video games, be they first person shooters, third person tomb raider type games, isometric dungeon crawlers, or a multi-planet GTA style intergalactic bounty hunter game, and all of those sorts of games have massive body counts. Heavenly would have trouble defending against a fireball, or a rain of arrows, but that doesn’t really excuse Dabbler’s performance thus far. Her ego is definitely a contributing factor, and like she said on the previous page, she really has been enjoying the fight. We’ll see if getting hit with Heavenly’s 6D4 attack helps her focus a little.
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That looks like a painfull close call
sword whip :) nice
Just like Ivy from Soul Caliber
I’m not that hip on gaming and anime but that looked like a whip-sword thing I saw somewhere. Dabbler just missed being chopped into large bits if HS had managed to give it a yank.
I’m pritty sure Heavenly was in the process of giving it a yank.
That’s where the cuts on Dabbler come from, she really only bearly escaped
Actually, I think the cuts came from the barbed energy blades Heavenly formed around the ribbon just as Dabs blinked out.
Just look up Ivy from Soul Calibur.
Her weird joypad-movement throws were the best looking attacks. Though one of my friends once managed to get out of Summon Suffering.
Thanks. That was art of her I saw.
Reminds me of the rose whip guy from Yu Yu Hakusho (and the spell check again confirms the programmers for this browser were classic anime nerds)
Oh crap.
That probably just pissed Dabbler off to no end.
I’m betting that this is just going to get ugly now.
I almost feel sorry for Heavenly Sword. Almost.
KICK HER ASS DABBLER HONEY!!!
“Should you waive this right I will probably stab you in the foot.”
Ok, so she can form the energy around flexible objects, since she calls herself “heavenly” i’m starting to imagine that her powers are divine or mcguffin powered (like Sydney’s orbs) as those tend to be more flexible in their rules than physically inherent ones, which tend towards either the simple or the painfully specific
Or she has a huge superiority complex.
Not really. From what we’ve seen, I’m guessing that she can form energy blade(s) around anything she can wield. Presumably, this does not include bullets…but I’m not going to rule that out just yet.
Depending on what she can do with those energy blades, that could eventually make her more dangerous with a whip than with a regular sword…but I’m not going to bet that’s the case now.
Hehe ‘blink’ and you’ll miss her.
Smart. But not smart enough so that it does not smart.
Ah, but if it smarts you’re still alive. And since Dabbler is smart… It all works out in the end.
HS has almost as cute a “gotcha” face as Sydney.
Yea, a lot of folks saying that. And I can see the cute aspect too. But, I find it has a more disturbing look to it as well. Even putting aside my bias against the likely thought going through her head “ooh, now that is a good way to kill her.” There still remains something creepy about it.
An odd combination, I admit, but not without precedent. .
Spiked Chain + Flail = A weapon I may need to throw at the players sometime soon. >:)
I do believe some flail chains were barbed to prevent grabbing the chain.
I had a strength-based character, who used one of those as a weapon of choice. It gave him nice reach, so he could command an open battlefield with ease. And gave him some options versus aerial opponents, without having to switch weapons. He could use both hands with it, so could apply his strength to good effect. And the tripping and entangling techniques gave him good versatility. Both in attacking and improvised use.
Plus it meant he had little to fear from something stronger than him, trying to grasp it and pull him off balance. He was both skilled with the weapon and devoted most options he had, to increasing his strength. So was able to surprise most things which might attempt that tactic.
Finally, wielded skilfully, it just looks cool.
The Witch-King leader of the Nazgul used one.
I believe Simon Belmont essentially used one, too. It may or may not have had spikes on the chain, but if memory serves, it did.
Sorry to be “that guy” but it should be “Waive” in panel 1.
Love the comic!
I came into the comments section to be that guy myself, but I suppose I shall waive my right to be that guy seeing as I was beaten to it!
Hey, didn’t you used to do a gaming comic a while back? With a guy (appropriately) called Rabid and a mouse and…stuff?
Or, seeing how it’s an alien speaking, we can let her (and DaveB) get away with it
They pronounce the same, so the spelling would probably appear correct on the page.
Yeah, but this way, we ‘see’ it how Dabbles is ‘thinking’ it
I suppose you could say that there’s a wave of “That Guy(And/Or Girl)” types today, hm?
Well, I guess I got here too late. Glad I’m not the only one who caught it, though.
Whoops, that should be fixed now. CTRL+F5!
First blood (literaly) to H.S.
But now the gloves are off for Dabbler.
Dabbler’s cyberarm (the gold armband looks like jewelry but it’s actually the connection joint) bleeds?
Her cyber arm is the lower left. The one she teleports her tech weapons in with.
That one is bleeding as well. Easter egg time? Or a very advanced cyberarm?
I’m too lazy to hunt the archives, but I don’t think Dabbler lost the whole arm. It may be an Easter Egg.
Hand and Eye
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1171
Thanks Doc.
Your welcome.
“Pulls on rubber glove”.
Now please drop em and bend over.
You now have an eddi-shaped hole in the wall.
I lose more guinie pigs that way.
Well, there’s red cuts visible on all of her arms :p including her lower left one :)
But we don’t see the cybernetic hand
have you never seen Terminator? cover it in a human flesh, it’ll bleed. assuming you get a layer of blood vessels under the flesh.
Owie… Blink to the rescue.
For all her villainy, I like Heavenly. Though I doubt she will join ARC with this attitude, she really is a “down but never out” character with a sincere passion for sword fighting. I just wonder if she took up sword fighting because of her powers, if her powers developed the way they are because she was such an excellent swordswoman already, or if the two simply complement each other by sheer coincidence.
We once did a superhero RPG in college, and one of my friends suggested a cool way to check if your power was worth it. “If you’re in a helicopter and you are chased by two heat-seeking missiles, how would your power help you survive?” It made me think up a really odd way to use mastery over shadows to ram them into each other. Since then, I have always thought of (and ranked) superpowers in that light; how can they get you out of cataclysmic trouble?
Yeah, but that cuts a few kind of vicious powers out of the equation, doesn’t it? I mean, the power to create illusions might not SEEM like much, but it’s one that has all kinds of inherently nasty applications. The same holds true for that guy who can manipulate earth.
Basically, any super-power you can think of can do SOMETHING really nasty if it’s being wielded by somebody who’s really creative and willing to push it to its limit. Cause at the end of the day, it’s the person who’s dangerous, not their weapon.
It depends on what sort of trouble you are in, and how effective the illusions are. If you can make a heat illusion, it could fool the missiles. And just like Dabbler showed with the Dabble-gangers a few pages ago, illusions (or duplicates, or whatever they were) can definitely get you out of trouble.
A dangerous person, without weapons, is a potential threat. One with weapons is deadly. There is a significant difference between the two.
But, that nit-picking aside, I very much agree with the rest of your post. It is the intent to do harm which is the key issue. Along with how effectively they can use the assets at their disposal. Someone with hostile intent, deadly efficiency and powerful weapons is the ‘perfect storm’.
… ARE YOU FORGETTING MATH?!
Math kicked a knife into a guy’s teeth.
Math’s body is a weapon.
Everything near Math is also a weapon
Close… Math’s body is a weapon. Anything around him is either a target or ammunition.
Potentially, both.
It can be both amunition AND a weapon.
Simple sticks can be deadly weapons in the hands of any martial artist
It also depends on how you define what is a weapon.Just looking around the room I’m in there are dozens of items that can be used as improvised weapons.
Yup. Keep paper clips and pens away from Hannibal Lecter. But if you think he is bad with just those, wait until he gets his hands on machine guns and grenades. Instead of fixing himself a quiet meal, he can have a vast banquet.
…And whatever you do, if you value your own life & limb, DON’T challenge him while you’re in a hardware store…
“A dangerous person, without weapons, is a potential threat. One with weapons is deadly. There is a significant difference between the two.”
A dangerous person, without weapons, is still dangerous.
A dangerous weapon, without a wielder, is not dangerous.
A bomb is ALWAYS dangerous.
1) Any weapon which has intrinsically dangerous aspects to it, such as being pointed, edged, explosive, caustic, flammable, poisonous or being infectious, remains hazardous. In fact probably becoming more so if in proximity to naive, ignorant or simply untrained personnel and/or animals. Whether they are attempting to wield it or not.
2) Any weapon capable of being discharged can potentially be accidentally triggered. Accidental firing without the presence of an intelligent entity, of some sort, is possible, but unlikely. Unintentional firing, in the presence of intelligent beings, capable of manipulation, but unaware of the risks is very high. As demonstrated by annual child mortalities from firearms. Including toddlers, who would not even recognise it as a possible weapon. Intention to wield is not actually a prerequisite to being able to wield.
3) Policy makers are currently debating the merits of autonomous weapons systems. Otherwise known as robots. Should that result in the production of robotic weapons, of any sort, then there will no longer be a requirement for an independent wielder. The weapon will be capable of wielding itself.
Even when humanity is extinct, the weapons we make will still be dangerous. Until they cease to be weapons, by one means or another.
South Korea has automated sentry turrets for their size of the demilitarized zone (between them and North Korea). I’m not sure if they are in use, but self-wielding weapons do exist.
A nuke triggered on a dead-man switch (actual dead, not just let go of the trigger).
The weapon is the dangerous part here.
I developed a short list, early in my gaming career, and it held to be useful in many genres of game, for assessing the utility of powers:
Offence, defence, recuperation, mobility and miscellaneous utility.
The more categories a power crossed over, the better it is. Obviously raw strength also counts. But it is of most use if it is strong in multiple categories.
So vampiric regeneration, which both has an offensive role, in harming an opponent, and simultaneously healing yourself is good. But if it can do both sides well, then it is elevated to being great.
It meant that I always liked shapechanging, because you could easily cover most of the categories, if not all, with creative use. Claws and fangs provided offence. Scales or rocky form defence. Wings or gills for mobility. And disguise and impersonation for miscellaneous utility. And, if you gained other inherent powers, of things you copied, you could choose something with regeneration, to fill the recuperation category.
Of course weaker versions could not do all those things. So it was just a matter of assessing how many categories it lost, as to how badly nerfed the power became. Provided it was still useful in two or three, then it was still worth considering.
DaveB mentions Dabbler’s powers and gear are not the best in a non-lethal fight. I don’t know about her magic, but of the three weapons we have seen only the bondage bullet launcher is non-lethal. Her satellite killer railgun and Soul Reaver are for major destruction and mayhem. It may be time to throw a flash-bang spell or something of the sort and thump on HS while she can’t fight back.
…assuming that bondage can’t be used to squeeze paste-that-was-viscera out of now empty skinsack of a body…
True. And ICK!
That power of hers is wicked versatile.
Heavenly Keyhole is a Royal Pain! And still a combatant.
And when she makes too much trouble she gets an upgrade to “you are allowed to use lethal attacks against HS”.
Gah. Actually had to jump on the comment thread to advise strongly AGAINST “Playing for keeps”. Usually I like DaveB’s book/comic plugs, but that’s one book I actively hated. Unbelievable characters, obvious stupidity and “limited” powers stretched to ridiculous extremes. Don’t believe the Amazon rating, either… there were a lot of the author’s friends there.
Love the teddybear charm on the end of the sword. :-D
In honor of this comic he shall henceforth be named ‘Blinky’.
Blinky the Binky.
Okay, there’s no doubt now – Heavenly Sword is in not for the fight, but for the kill. What she tried to pull off there would very likely end up in quick and massive blood loss, if not anything else, very likely being lethal even to Dabbler.
And since Dabbler doesn’t seem to like to leave a challenge unanswered, I wonder what she’ll do to answer a glove thrown THAT way.
Not necessarily; they could be used like barbed wire and just hold Dabbles in place
That could be argued, but if she intended that, Dabbler wouldn’t get the cuts. Anywho, see below.
There have been whip-like swords before. This this in no real way deviated from HS’s main power.
Go to the site True Swords.
There is a sword whip on it. Under ninja equipment page 4.
I just checked some reference material about the Urumi whip-sword. With long urumi, one of the attack forms is to whip the blade so that it wraps around a body part, and then twist the handle and pull the Urumi off. This causes the coiled blade to tighten and cut into the target while it slides away. It appears that HS was trying to do this kind of attack.
I have one suggestion how this fight might continue:
Dabble already said she would “stab you in the foot”, and if you make a threat, you should be prapared to carry it out.
While Urumi is fast and had good range, it is difficult to block attacks with it. This is the reason why Urumi is used with shield… and HS does not have a shield.
Only 4k needed to hit first.
VOTE NOW!
VOTE ON EVRY COMUTER YOU KNOW OF!
Or just change your internal ip and use one computer, it’s the same thing.
Nope, never mind, they have a block in place.
Which also means voting from multiple computers in the same house wont work either.
My only regret is that I have but one vote to give for my comic.
That’s why you need a desk job, for the extra IP.
Or visit the library (where I am now), the local wifi-enabled coffee shop, and such…
Only 3000 more to go.
WE CAN DOOOO EEEEEET!
That Gymnastic Ribbon sword works much better with her powers than her previous wooden blade.
if the next sniper shot doesn’t go through her brain pan she should consider keeping it rather than returning to solid blades or maby use both as the situation dictates.
heh it even matches her outfit :-P
I wonder; does Heavenly’s power work better with low-density objects (wood, ribbon etc)? She could turn a pencil or a coffee stirrer into a deadly weapon.
Math or Max could as well.
As could Riddick.
Or Bullseye, didn’t save his ass though.
Riddick and Bullseye aren’t here. Hmm, maybe Peggy is related to Bullseye? Nah.
This raises the questions of why would they be trying so hard to keep it non-lethal in the first place? I get the whole PR part of it, but hasn’t comics taught us that if you capture them they just escape and try again?
I get the impression that DaveB is trying to keep the comic in as “in-universe consistent” as possible, while keeping it close to “our reality”. A law enforcement squad doesn’t (usually – I don’t live in the US, but I suspect it’s like that in there as well) have the right to use lethal force on spot, they need to be given a sufficient reason. So far, Heavenly Sword appeared more to be in a “sparring contest” with Dabbler, hence Dabbler was effectively not allowed to use lethal force.
Or, well, that’s the way I understand it.
As I understand it, law enforcement may not use lethal force unless a situation arises where, in the law enforcement officer’s on-the-spot judgement, the failure to make immediate use of lethal force has a high chance of resulting in somebody getting killed.
So if a bad guy has a gun pointed at somebody, or has a knife to their throat, or something like that, police are allowed to shoot and kill. The same goes for somebody who suddenly pulls a gun on a cop.
Ironically (or perhaps not), this is traditionally the same brightline that distinguishes self-defense when a civilian ends up shooting and killing somebody: if you believe there was another way that was likely to make them stop, you are guilty of murder. If not, it was self-defense.
A law officer has legal right to use lethal force in cases where himself or another is in lethal danger. Primarily, the gun at a policeman’s hip is for his own protection. Lethal force would here be permissible basically the moment the fight started, as half of these people (on both sides) are capable of lethal force without even being armed. There ARE civilians in the vicinity.
Starting to look like our favorite Xenodopplegoofoffabus has found her archenemy……Or isn’t that accustomed to non-stupid opponents.
As a sewer, I can’t help but wonder how HS managed to get that keyhole to retain its form thru all that moving. XD
Now there is a “superpower,” the ability to make otherwise improbably clothing!
Maybe she’s got some of that super strength tape that’s keeping Dabbler in her bustier!
Dabbles top is an illusion, that design along the top moves like a ‘ticker-tape’
I wonder, using the embroidery along the top as a spell storage device?
I think it’s primary purpose is to draw attention to the mesmerizing cleavage. The secondary purpose is to prevent a wardrobe incident. But only just. Eternally staying on the tipping point.
The suspension is killing me.
Dabbler’s got a trilateral commission (Aliens, fay, hell) signed permit to invent new powers as the plot demands, and of course she is probably older than Jesus and so had time to invent ALOT of powers.
You just gotta get her attention to get them to use them EFFICIENTLY, that’s all.
Dabbler is only 18(decades)
At this point, it’s better to call it a “character introduction” than “new powers as the plot demands”.
New Powers as Plot Demands is justified by the fact that she’s a magical being with technological prowess. Spells plus Tech, where usually one or the other is enough to warrant having NPaPD. Superpower Lottery applies, too. Occasionally holds Idiot Ball for balance, like she’s been doing for most of this fight.
Take a moment and consider. Heavenly Sword is the FIRST enemy Dabbler came across, and for all her skills, she STILL can’t beat her (even assisted) after nearly the entire fight has all but ended.
Uh oh. Panel three has the necessary item to win the fight!
Whoever gets the glasses on will gain +10 coolness and cannot help but win!
And just how well did that strategy work for the lady who was wearing them earlier?
Clearly her base Coolness was far lower than either HS or Dabbler.
Peggy, there is a police officer under deadly attack. Now with clear intent to kill. Had Dabbler not used her magic to evade, she would be dead already. Achilles can no longer intervene, and the team is too heavily outnumbered to be able to rely on anyone else being free to assist.
The opponent is too powerful and versatile to risk another disarming attempt. And she is skilful enough that she will not present one again anyhow. There is no time to issue a warning. Use of lethal force has already been authorised.
Unless you know Dabbler has a disabling power, other than the asteroid catching gun, which she can safely use to instantly and completely incapacitate Heavenly Sword:
Take. The. Shot.
Put that .50 cal into a limb…..end of fight.
But I have faith in Dabbler.
But….who is that villain on the ground? Did I miss a fight?
Not saying that is the case, but it’s possible that Heaven was using the ribbon-blade to hold Dabbles in place: as long as she doesn’t move she is okay, but because they are blades they will still cut
Imo, if Heaven wanted to kill Dabbles, she could have used the ribbon like a whip and snap the point through Dabbles instead of like a ribbon and wrapping her tight
But only Heaven (and DaveB) knows the true intent
If Dabbler’s blink skill doesn’t involve innitial movement (which blink spells usually don’t), the already present cuts strongly suggest that Heavenly Sword’s intent was to draw blood. Considering the amount of blades on the ribbon projected by HS, that wasn’t just a “take that”/”I am not down yet” cut attack, she went for a large scale wound. If nothing else, it could’ve ended in quite a bit of blood loss.
At this point, asking whether HS just wanted to keep Dabbler down or to kill her no longer holds any water. Heavenly Sword performed an attack that was likely to be lethal had Dabbler not blinked.
Therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if Peggy put a slug HS’ leg, arm or anywhere where the wound would prove crippling (HS still doesn’t have to be killed; it would be enough to cause pain strong enough to throw her completely out of any concentration).
on shooting the arm/leg; A 50cal round even if it ‘only’ hits a limb, is probably going to kill the target. so really, Peggy’s Barret is a lethal weapon regardless of where you hit the target (unless of course they have some sort of superpower <.<)
What happens if a .50 rubber bullet hits a person? Is there such a thing?
Archon would have them, and my guess is massive internal damage followed by a lingering death that would be very painful outside a hospital, Inside a hospital still get the lingering death from the internal damage but enough painkillers to keep you knocked out until you passed.
Alternatively, let me put it this way – it is a situation akin to producing an object indistinguishable from a real weapon at a police officer. At that point, they have the right to shoot back, even if the objects prove to be a harmless immitation; they simply no longer can ask around to see if that thing that looks like a .45 really is unloaded/not functional/disabled/etc., and have the right to consider their lives to be in danger.
I dunno…whips need to be a minimum distance from their target to be effective, and I think Dabbler is inside of that range. Plus, whips don’t really penetrate all that well. They do cut, but that’s more a function of speed than anything else, which means that it would have to be accompanied by a “crack”.
Usually, you need about twelve to sixteen feet of space to get that whip crack sound.
Except that HS manifested little blades all over the length of said whip, and a big honking spear type blade on the end of it. No longer needs speed alone to do the job.
They manifested after they were wrapped around Dabbles, and we have no way to tell if they were the reason or the result of Dabbles’ *blink*age
This. “Try to keep it non-lethal” went out the window way back when Shadow Boxer attempted to murder Halo in cold blood. No, actually, it went out the window when the first attacker punched Kenya with enough force to kill any normie, but at least she took him out of the fight a page later. Blood keeps getting drawn and everyone’s still dicking around. Peggy should’ve installed an air duct connecting Sword’s temples pages ago.
Again I’m forced to question the competence of the people in charge.
Well, I’d say it’s because it is a comic (even as realistic + supers as DaveB is trying to have it as; the moment such a big force goes in, “keep it nonlethal” might mean dead among the bystanders – which I assume there are, considering the fight started in a restaurant; Maxima and her team might want to dispatch all attackers as fast as possible; besides, she DID show just how much punch she alone can throw in the TV interview; anyone stupid enough to go against that is asking for a Darwin prize). I am pretty sure that had the RL rules of engagement in play with zero restriction whatsoever, the body count would’ve already been quite above zero.
Err… to clarify, I meant that there are bystanders, not that there are dead bystanders.
I interpreted non-lethal on a per-target basis. The offensive and defensive abilities of supers vary so much that lethality really has to be evaluated on pairing – anyone targeting Achilles with a power that doesn’t affect others is using a non-lethal attack. Anyone targeting blades at Halo inside her shield is using a lethal attack. Anyone with dangerous AOE (area of effect) powers is using a lethal attack if they do it near civilians or defense-light Arc personnel. Using a tank-killer on a low-defense, negligible-damage super is murder (think cop shooting a six-year old with a knife). Etc. So far, the people who knowingly escalated to lethal except HS went down fast:
Shadow Boxer attacked Halo inside her shield —> crunch and KO
Eye-Beams targeting the “normal” martial artist —> extreme dental work
Lee Press-on-Claws with a cuts-anything attack —> phobia triggered
Silent Shadow using knives on everyone —> bound
That being said, HS was skirting lethal before and just upped the ante, so I think she can now be considered a lethal threat.
Agreed. Law enforcement officials are obliged to treat each and every individual as a separate case. Unless they are acting in such a manner as to make it impossible to do so. For instance being in a group of rioters. In such circumstances the individual should make an effort to disassociate themselves from the criminals.
If they have the means to do so, and choose not to, then they are implicating themselves in the crime. However, if their means of escape it blocked, then they will be unable to do so. So even in the middle of a riot, police have to assess the members of the crowd, to see if there are unwilling citizens who have been caught up in the violence.
In this case, there are a lot of distinct incidents going on. So, although there is a degree of ‘guilt by association’, that is not sufficient cause to justify killing someone. Not without corroboration that they, themselves as individuals, are posing clear and present danger.
This is especially true of implicating the rest of the group, due to the actions of one or two individuals inside the restaurant. It cannot be shown that anybody, outside of those incidents, would have been aware of what happened. So even with those attempted murders, it does not make the rest of the mob guilty of the same.
And, as Unmaker says, shooting fireballs and lightning bolts at somebody like Maxima is little more than pretty lights. Further, following her demonstration, at the press conference, it is fair to assume that everybody knows she is immune to anything weaker than a nuke. So, in context, their actions are unruly but not murderous.
Heavenly’s attack inside the Steak House was destructive to property, but may not have not appeared to be an attempt to kill. We only had a snapshot, so it is best to take the officer’s judgements on this. Judging by their responses, they have treated it like a warning shot, or demonstration. They could have claimed this as provocation, but exercised their judgement and considered that they still had options to disable her. Notably the entangling munitions.
Now though Heavenly Sword has undertaken an action which appears to have deadly intent.* That is sufficient to oblige Peggy and/or Dabbler to escalate their response. The individual’s actions have implicated herself, and shown her to be a deadly threat.
* And, as another commentator said above, the appearance is sufficient. Society cannot ask police to assume that there is an innocuous reason, for what seems to be a deadly threat. If there is any doubt, and there is no time to safely determine the difference, the officers can, and must, assume the worse case scenario.
Its important to remember this morning’s demonstration, however. Maxima/Archon are not actually compelled to obey those who rank them. The notion that Peggy could face consequences for violating law enforcement’s rules of engagements is not, to my mind, plausible. Maxim’a unauthorized detonation/intimidation of civilians trick didn’t get her instantly canned because the military isn’t dumb enough to start a fight it can’t win. Her pet’s (and that’s basically what Peggy & the other Peggy level Archon members are) misbehavior would presumably be covered under the same rationale.
There is probably some act that Maxima & Co could commit that would cause the military to decide to risk the country’s independence, and their own lives, by defying them, but it isn’t killing a terrorist who is attacking police officers. It probably isn’t even robbing a bank. (Imagine if Harem did that in her spare time. Not only would it not be worth it to confront Maxima about it, it wouldn’t even be worth it to inform her of it.) Its hard to think what Archon could do that would make a rational military decide to rock the boat, but Peggy shooting Heavenly Sword wouldn’t be it.
This morning’s demonstration brings up something else to consider however: This is still a new group to the public, and first impressions are important.
Intentionally killing people in their first engagement is unlikely to make a good first impression. Especially if that killing is done by a ‘normal’ sniper, not a super.
Dabbler has been toying with Heavenly Sword so far, by all appearances. If this can cause her to stop playing around and take out Heavenly Sword non-lethally, that would be ideal. They could maintain the ‘good guy’ image, as well as show the boast that they can take down serious threats without resorting to lethal force.
That said, these are all just PR reasons. Winning and surviving a fight is more important than PR. If Dabbler has been holding back (which seems likely), and has better ways to engage Heavenly Sword, it’s worthwhile to consider staying non-lethal. Consider. If she (or Peggy, or someone else) were to decide to go lethal I would not blame them, and Arianna could handle the fallout.
Very soundly argued. The only point I would have to add is that Dabbler had better take her actions fast. Because she has a very limited window before Peggy will have re-positioned herself. Once she is ready for her next shot, protocol would dictate that she should be prepared to take a lethal shot. Assuming the status quo remains as is. I.e. there is a police officer in imminent danger of being killed.
Dabbler may be playing it for the laughs, but Peggy is a pro.
Ok, there are two separate issues here. Firstly there is the false impression. Then there is the actual situation.
False Impression
Go back and check Maxima’s speech. At no point did she ever threaten the civilian population. She made very clear threats directed at criminals and hostile nations. But none towards the populace. Rather she made it clear that she is there to protect them.
That said though people can, and do, ignore the words said, and place their own interpretation on a situation. Her demonstration was a very frightening show of power, and it is natural that people will view it in light of their own preconceptions. Those who view the police and military as being a threat to them will likely misconstrue her words in the way you said.
Which, ultimately is their problem, not hers.
However, somebody of her rank should have anticipated the problem. She does have some mitigation, in that the press conference was hastily organised, and she had no time to practice her speech, or receive approval as to the content. So the improvised elements are problematic, but are not disobeying any orders.
DaveB has indicated that Maxima will face some repercussions for this, in course. But not as a heavy focus in the comic, rather than as an aside. Because, at the end of the day, her behaviour is, and I am sure will remain, consistent with being an upholder of law and order, rather than a tyrant or a rebel.
As such her approach has caused a PR nightmare, but that is Arianna’s job to sort out now. So, putting that to one side…
Actual Situation
Maxima and Archon have acted fully lawfully. There is no break in the chain of command. Regardless of her power and your fear that she is abusing her authority, she is not. She was authorised to demonstrate her power and did so. It is her job to protect the populace from criminals and hostile powers. She has confirmed that she will do so. In no uncertain terms.
And the force of her demonstration and speech may well have far more positive effects than negative. Importantly though it was her judgement call to make. She was not disobeying orders. Arianna is a civilian, who is there to help Maxima. She is not Maxima’s boss.
The general delegated authority to Maxima to act, and she used it. How well this fight goes now will influence the public, and the powers that be, as to how favourably they view those decisions, in the long run. But there is no question that Maxima has gone rogue. She behaved fully within the chain of command and the law.
Today Maxima demonstrated to the world that she is casually superior to its military. In particular, she is superior to the United State’s military, hitherto the most powerful force projection implement in the world.
What she pulled at today’s demonstration would see an ordinary warfighter court marshalled immediately. Maxima casually describes it as going “off script”. She’s right not to be concerned about punishment. Imagine how dumb her ‘superiors’ would have to be to fire Maxima. (and then surrender to whoever she went to work for) Or suspend her, or dock her pay. If you were her CO/chain of command, would you take the risk?
I’d put the payoff matrix like this:
Decide to reprimand Colonel Leander.
99% chance she accepts. We gain her respect and project the useful fiction that we are in control of her.
1% she rejects our authority, United States is no longer the leading military superpower in the world.
Would you roll the dice? You’d be a lunatic to do so. The primary consideration when dealing with Maxima is not angering her. You let those who know her well decide how best to proceed. Arianna, the General, those who have forged relationships with her. Then you PRAY, they don’t mess it up.
This also applies to the actions of Peggy & Co. Max’s people are solidly off limits to anything that might cause them distress. (My read on Maxima is that you REALLY don’t want to mess with her friends) If Peggy shoots Heavenly Sword, the powers that be won’t do a thing about it.
1) Maxima wouldn’t need to demonstrate that she’s superior to the U.S. military, both already knew it.
2) If she was her intent to rebel the first time someone reprimanded her, why would she have joined in the first place? If anything, she gives the military a chance to study her for potential weaknesses by doing so.
3) As far as we know, the only script she went off of at the demonstration is Ariana’s and Ariana’s alone. Whether it is the official position of Maxima’s superiors as well remains to be seen. The absence of disciplinary action may indicate that it is not.
4) If her superiors truly are afraid to punish her, then a de facto state of tyranny already exists. The only decision left is whether to fight or surrender.
There’s also the little problem of ‘what was she actually told to do’ – if her only instructions were to ‘demonstrate her powers on the tank’ she acted completely within orders. Now, you might get a minor disciplinary action for being a smartass – but we’re talking KP duty for a week, not a hearing of some kind.
In short, there is no evidence Maxima exceeded orders. She obviously annoyed Arianna, but she made a good demonstration for the press, kept everyone safe, and provided an overview of her own stance. Which was the purpose of the press conference, and likely the extent of her actual orders.
Even Arianna hasn’t actually yelled at her about it. She grit her teeth a bit at the conference because she was thrown off-script, but by the time they made it to the restaurant she was over her anger.
1) I’m sorry that I communicated poorly. I meant to say that she demonstrated it to the world. Clearly, both Maxima and the military know the score.
2) The worry is not that Maxima is currently pursueing some kind of nefarious scheme. If that’s the case, she’s going about it in a really weird way, and in any case there’s nothing the brass can do about it. Rather, the worry is that mistreating her/her buddies might cause her to become angry.
3) Well, I mean, there’s no way that her orders included blasting the journalists and shielding them behind the powers she discovered could defend them an hour ago, right? Beyond that though, Maxima doesn’t act like she’s worried about discipline. She threatened the reporters at the bogus bank robbery. For goodness sake she pansed Harem. I’m just a voice on the internet, but please trust that a colonel who assaulted a subordinate with the declared attempt of retaliation for poor performance/defiance would be breaking like 4 distinct regulations. Look it up if you don’t want to take my word for it, the military takes an extremely stern view of officer on subordinate violence.
4) I don’t think that’s the case, strictly speaking. Certainly, their only choices would be to fight or surrender, if Maxima pressed the issue, but she isn’t. The ball is entirely in her court. As long as she remains content to live the life of a uniformed gang leader they can leave her to it. She’s given no indication of a desire to destroy the gov or rule the world. Why provoke her? Let her & her goons get away with whatever they want. Its worth whatever it might cost to clean up after them, and, heck, they seem to be helping right now.
2) Supers exist. Some of them could easily rule whole countries, if they chose to. The most powerful one known, in the world, chooses to put herself at the disposal of her country to deploy as they see fit. This is a significant strategic advantage to that country. You will notice that the most senior and capable generals have a high degree of lassitude in personal dress, manner of speaking and things they can get away with. Take Patton for an example.
They get these perks partly because their very eccentricity can be an effective tool in earning the respect of their subordinates, enemies and commanders. And the amount they can get away with pushing them is proportionate to how useful they are. And they are just human. They cannot wipe out whole armies on their own.
This comic is not doing anything unprecedented. Extraordinary people, that can change the fate of the entire country, or even the world, get a lot of lassitude and perks that others do not. Look at how Elvis was made a federal agent, purely so he could carry his gun around the country. The powers that be do indeed recognise it would be foolish to alienate uniquely talented individuals, and their followers. But, that does not mean that they can (necessarily) get away with murder.
The individuals are expected to play their part and obey orders (if in the military). If they deviate too far from acceptable behaviour, then they cease to be an asset and become a liability. Then it becomes an issue of how to discreetly re-assign them to somewhere, like Alaska, where they can do less harm. Anything bad enough to warrant jail time would be a disaster for the military and the country at large. So they would go to lengths to avoid that. Even with a mundane human, who had fallen from grace.
But Maxima has given no signs of disrespecting the chain of command. Just look at how worried she was at having upset the general All he had to do was twitch his eye! She is a career officer, and a lieutenant colonel does not piss off a general, if she wants to progress. The government and the military will do everything they can to encourage this attitude. And if that means allowing her flexibility in how she commands her unit, so be it.
“Demonstrate your powers, and those of your squad. Barring any classified ones.”
No she did not. She forcefully spoke to one civilian, who was bleating irritatingly, that he remained under her protection at all times. Reminding him of her capabilities helped put things in perspective for him. Plus did what was necessary to expedite the ambulance men leaving her alone in the ambulance. Maxima will never win awards for her public relations, but she gets the job done.
The only reporter present was Suzie News, who was an unknown intern at the time. Doubtless she will be singing Maxima’s praises for the rest of her long career. Which was started because Maxima chose to give her an exclusive.
Mmm, ok. Oh, look it is in here.* “Unit commanders may exercise unusual punishment, including corporal punishment, especially on Corporal Daphne DeShantis, at their discretion…”
* Archon rules and regulations, Volume One. Co-writer Lieutenant Colonel Maximillia Leander. Signed off by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and approved, in a closed session, by the Supreme Court.
This is an attempt to reply to Yorp, rather than myself. I think the replies are too nested at that level.
In any case, I’m a bit confused. It seems like we are argumentatively agreeing with one another. What I’m trying to say is that shooting Heavenly Sword won’t get Peggy in any trouble. She would need to get WAY more out of line before she violated Maxima’s ‘Elvis Effect’. It seems like you believe that too.
In wartime, and other drastic emergencies, certain units, charged with critical duties are given extraordinary powers and/or leeway. The fact that supers have now become so numerous that they are being openly acknowledged elevates the threat level to that kind of level. Especially with magic, psionics, aliens, demons and other weird stuff thrown into the mix.
Such delegated powers have varied, but have included the granting of potentate powers. Literally the power of the crown, to negotiate treaties, start or end wars, or anything else that lies within the power of the state. Subject only to ratification, by the state. Which, as a matter of tradition and practicality, is always honoured. To fail to do so would weaken any future negotiations.
Other powers that can be granted include that to kill individuals on demand, in order to accomplish their mission. Be it civilians, subordinates or otherwise. For instance killing a wounded subordinate, to avoid him falling into enemy hands and being interrogated.
Or, just to quote an interview with a retired police officer “I was given this bucket to guard. I was told that nobody was to be allowed to look inside it. If anyone did, I was to shoot them dead. And I would have done!” He is able to openly say this, as a matter of public record, because he had been legally delegated that authority, in a time of war. Ironically it contained camel dung. But there was a reason for it being classified.
Maxima will likely have been granted more leeway of action than any unit commander in history. Why? Because she has been charged with protecting the country, the Earth and Humanity from attacks by alien armadas, invasion by the legions of hell, the zombie apocalypse, super villains and hostile nations, with hordes of mutant monsters and killer robots.
It is her role as the leader of the unit capable of dealing with these threats that will give her these powers, along with the duties and responsibilities that come with them. Some of which will require creative and lateral thinking to resolve. If a wedgie keeps Harem on the straight and narrow, without requiring her to be placed in a military prison for insubordination and literal framing of a commanding officer, then so be it.
But, for her to be entrusted with these powers, she must have a career that proved she follows orders, even if she has an unusual leadership style. She will be judged on her results. Note that not once have I mentioned her super powers in this. They are secondary, when choosing your countries most critical unit commander. First you choose somebody trustworthy. If they can bounce tank shells off their chest too, that is a bonus.
Walter My issue comes with the assertions that the government is in fear of Maxima, and giving her those lassitudes as tribute to some kind of super bandit. That is totally not the relationship. She is a good, dedicated, career officer, who has earnt the perks and lassitudes, because of her effectiveness in commanding a uniquely challenging unit.
Once again, attempting to reply to Yorp.
I don’t believe that there’s a plausible argument that the military is treating Maxima as it would a hypothetical unpowered Colonel Leander. She gets special treatment, because of her immense power.
Anyone else would be fired (or at least transferred somewhere harmless) for the stunt at the artillery range. The initial reveal of the existence of super powers was probably the most important PR moment of the…time periods actually fail me. I’ll go with century, but a longer time frame of your choosing might actually be accurate. Maxima altered it on the fly with information that she discovered that afternoon . Firing Maxima, by contrast, would be the actions of a lunatic. No one could be that stupid.
I’m not contending that the military brass is stupid, or afraid. I’m contending that its rational. Maxima & co. are more powerful than it is, and they desire that the relationship between them should be that they pretend to serve it. The government should honor that desire. If Archon wants to call itself by military ranks, they can do that. She can be Colonel Maxima, or Empress Maxima, or just Maxima. Its her decision.
Its cosplay though. Archon aren’t really a military unit. They are the justice league. You can see it in the way they conduct during this battle. You can see it in their overall demeanor. (rhetorical question, are Math & Anvil going to be disciplined for assaulting one another earlier? What form would this discipline take?)
While I (and I believe Yorp as well) agree to this, this has nothing to do with what I understand as the two main differences in opinion:
1) Whether the military is afraid of punishing Maxima because she’s a super; and,
2) whether the military should be afraid of punishing Maxima because she’s a super.
There are two major problems with this, IMHO. First, as soon as the military adopts the attitude that Maxima is above the law and can do whatever she wants, then the country effectively ceases to be a democracy. Second, she has shown no indication that she considers herself above military discipline, nor do her superiors seem to feel any apprehension in giving her orders. While it is true that she gave Harem an atomic wedgie, I would think the lack of punishment would be contingent on whether Harem complained (although I doubt the punishment would be severe enough to make it worth the time and effort), she had been injured, or a superior had seen the incident, rather than on whether Maxima was a super or not. Furthermore, given the informal nature of the group and the (probable) lack of military background of many of its members, it would not surprise me if Maxima were given a bit more leeway in terms of choosing punishments for those under her command.
Until proven otherwise, the only civilians Maxima intended to intimidate were those who used their powers for criminal purposes. And I have a hard time feeling sorry for any that fit into that group.
Now, it is possible that she was lying and has undisclosed motives. And it is also possible that some normal and/or non-criminal civilians were intimidated. But we have no current evidence of the former and the latter have no one to blame but themselves for failing to hear what she actually said.
Have to disagree with that assessment of HS’s attacks. This is, I think, the third direct attempt to kill Dabbler. Her initial demo of powers (and murder attempt #1) caused property damage but could have easily slain anyone not in clear view. It’s actually a beautiful illustration for Max’s speech only minutes earlier about fighting in public. HS doesn’t give a shit if anyone–including civilians or downed teammates–dies when she shows off.
There have been comments trying to downplay HS’s murder attempts, but despite all the wisecracks and sexytalk these attackers have made their intent to kill clear from the very first blow. Had their speedster chosen his targets better*, the good guys would have two wearing toe tags to go with the one missing a toe.
*For example, Math. There was a similar situation in Marvel’s “Thunderbolts” a few years ago, when Quicksilver faced off against Mister X, a supervillain who could precognitively anticipate any attack his opponent might execute. Except Quicksilver was so fast, that ability was inconsequential; his normal-speed body still had insufficient time to react and Quicksilver reduced him to a sobbing pulp. If Math has finally found a challenge in Jabbywokky’s “cheetah style,” the speedster would’ve flayed him alive before he could piss his pants.
When Halo and Dabbler have their little chats, I like Dab very much.
When I see Dabbler persistently goofing around while her teammates are getting hurt, not so much.
I didn’t mean to suggest that ARC-SWAT should start casually crushing the skulls of everyone on the dark side, but Peggy’s formally acknowledged that Dabbler is letting the team down, and they continue to resemble Night Thrasher’s New Warriors in Stamford, rather than a trained military unit, even one led by Bill Murray.
A rule of thumb, for sexual discrimination cases, in the workplace, is how the target ,of comments or actions, feels about them. If they enjoy the attention and encourage the actions, then it is not harassment. No matter what the office manager might think.
It only becomes an issue, beyond that, if the witnesses feel intimidated, by being in the presence of such behaviour. In which case, there is a victim who is claiming sexual harassment, and action can be taken.
For the earlier incidents, I was merely extending a similar courtesy to the officers. They are the ones capable of judging if the actions were serious murder attempts or just super rough-housing.
If you put that to one side, yes, I totally agree.with both yourself and jee.
Although we must take into consideration the quite widespread ‘shipping’ going on, for some of these villains. If they can attempt to kill police officers, but in an apparently honourable way, which still has fans looking to get them to join Archon, then that is a powerful effect, which deserves exploration.
However those earlier incidents, and fan considerations, have been overridden by the current unequivocal murder attempt. At the stage we are at now, I am convinced that Heavenly should be killed or incapacitated with utmost urgency. She has been given more than enough opportunity to come peacefully.
disagree
after disarming Dabbler (https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1355), HS followed up with a thrust attack at the center of mass (chest – lungs, heart), with her power activated; and only Achilles’ intervention prevented the attack from reaching its target. While it may be possible that this was intended as a fencing touché, it’s highly unlikely. Deadly force has been utilized; ergo, deadly response is authorized.
There is a teleporter with a taser right next to Peggy watching the situation. That is an effective non-lethal response in waiting. Depending on how Harem’s other selves are equipped, she might not have to leave Peggy uncovered even for a second or two.
Very clever. Provided Heavenly is struck unawares, she could pull it off.
Not without some risk to Harem, but acceptably low, as she is martial arts trained. In fact to a higher degree than Dabbler is with swords. So can optimise the tactic well to take Heavenly’s martial arts skills and training into account. And she is paid to take risks.
Have three Harem’s hit her from all sides or top and bottom as well. I don’t remember if they preserve inertia when they teleport but if so running tackles could really mess up HS’ timing.
Wrong waive spelling used. (if someone hasn’t already caught it)
Maybe Dabbles, who is still getting the hang of English, thinks of it that way (which basically means the same thing: when you waive away your rights, you are waving goodbye to them)
Don’t blink. Blink and you’re dead.
Good luck.
Best Dr. Who episode ever.
Blink and you go slightly back in time, which apparently is a big deal, even for time travelers.
I’ve never understood why the angels are viewed as so scary. The Doctor himself says that they are among the kindest of killers out there.
They rip you from your normal time, away from your friends and family and modern knowledge and technology, and deposit you in a place where you are all alone, not known to anyone, technically not even existing since you don’t have a birth cert, social security number, all your money, bank balances etc. are in the future. You’re left destitute and alone, and you know you will most likely never see any familiar face or your loved ones ever again.
The Angels are “merciful” in that they let you live yourself to death. But they are scary because it is in a wholly new environment that you might be able to adapt to, but never really belong in, and can never escape from.
Yeah, but why doesn’t the Doctor do what River and Jack do, and leave a note in/on a location/artifact that another time-traveller is likely to locate at some point, saying “kinda stranded, need to hitch a lift, thanks…”?
I think I can only recall him doing something like that 3 times. (“Blink”, “The Day of the Doctor”, and once in a Tom Baker episode where he lets himself out of a locked cell)
The Doctor could, yeah. But most “normal” people don’t have that resource – they get sent back in time, don’t know how they got there, or how to get back. That would be very disorienting.
And if you’re thinking of using knowledge of today to get rich then, I refer you to the Twilight Zone episode “Of Late I Think of Cliffordville”.
One problem with sending you back in time with all your memories is that you could pull a ‘Doc Brown’ and arrange for a messenger to deliver a package to a specific person on a specific date in the future.
Imagine getting a letter saying “Dear me. You/I were planning to go on a trip to (destination here) tomorrow. If you do, you will die. Please arrange to be somewhere else that day. Your’s truly, you.”
And by sending/receiving the letter you change your own timeline. Possible dire consequences, running, and occasional hilarity ensues. (Bow tie and Fez not included).
P.S.
I put a small sum into a bank account recently. Congratulations, after 100 years you are now a millionaire. Here is the account number (xxxx-xx-xxxx).
P.P.S.
I’m off to Germany to find some kid named Hitler and give him a good guidance counselor and a scholarship to art school.
No no! He was placed where he was because the previous guy was much more competent, and completely sane. Do you know how hard it is to undo a history with a thousand year Reich embedded in it? Stop, before you loose World War II for us! Again.
What happens if we save Franz Ferdinand then?
The details change, but things go ahead pretty much according to schedule.
2 very cute faces in this page: panel 4 and 5
If you are looking for another interesting read about someone using weak powers in creative way, then I would highly recommend the epic web novel Worm (found here: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/)
It was actually a comparison that I first thought of when I read Sydney’s description about being creative with other people’s powers.
It’s a little darker and grittier than you comic…actually make that a LOT darker and grittier; it puts “and then it got worse” on a rocket sled and fires it down the track with all jets blazing. The city-destroying unkillable monster first makes an appearance about 1/3 of the way through, and 28 chapters later that event is looked back upon as minor inconvenience.
The main character has “insect powers” but without wanting to spoil to much, that doesn’t really even begin to describe what she’s capable of. She (and her allies) continually dick-punch baddies so far out of their weight class that they shouldn’t even be in the same story, let alone fighting each other directly.
Honestly, it’s not the kind of thing I thought that I would normally have enjoyed, because with things continually getting worse it borders on depressing (IMO) at time, but the overall story is very captivating and the ending is satisfactory. When you have a few weeks you should sit down and read it (it’s long, like, REALLY long).
The anthology OOMPH is a collection of stories on the subject of saving the day with “useless” powers. Like any anthology it’s a mixed bag but there are some gems in there.
So no one has mooted my personal theory about Heavenly Sword’s motivation, though there has been a lot of discussion so maybe I’ve just missed it.
Heavenly sword sees herself as something like a holy crusader, hence the “Heavenly” part of her name. White, traditionally the color of purity/holiness, is almost all she wears. It has been commonly noted she fights with what seem like honorable rules. Her bracers may even have some silver in them or something. Without her power, the shini she carries is a nonlethal (more or less) weapon so she isn’t a danger to anyone while walking around. The big tip off is in her first major appearance in 1343 where she calls Dabbler “witch.” She probably sees Dabbler, specifically, as an evil that needs purged. And this is before she saw her “demony” battle form. Note that she has not personally shown any aggression towards anyone else. I’d wager that if Dabbler wasn’t a part of the team, she wouldn’t see a reason to attack. She might even be willing to join up otherwise.
In her very first appearance ever at the beginning of the fight, she is sort of leading the villains, which is a weak point to my theory. She’s also not wearing any religious symbol I recognize. Maybe the heart on her headband is something? I’d guess she sees the rest of ARCSWAT (or the entire ARC group) as guilty by association with Dabbler and thus fair game, or at least as acceptable targets if they get in the way. She may be with the “villains” but at least she isn’t allied with an actual demon.
Given this, I’d see her taking up a “Worthy Opponent” position in the rogue’s gallery. She’d be/is a motivated fighter, would be inclined to avoid civilian casualties, and would probably stick to any agreements she makes with the team. If she could make peace with Dabbler somehow, she might even be willing to sign on.
It’s difficult to say. At the start, she was disappointed that Mr. Crazy Hair Puncher didn’t land on anyone when he jumped down, and I’m not sure if she meant that about the supers only. Then when Maxima went to scout out the roof, she first told the guys to target Max, then yelled to shoot her. So I wouldn’t exactly call her a non-collateral damage person.
She’s honourable, but that might be a result of her martial arts training. And just like Math is always looking for challenging opponents, she might be as well, hence why she is leading a normally dishonourable fight among innocents. But whether or not she considers her abilities divine in nature is up for debate, I think.
Since you specifically ask for comment…
You see Heavenly Sword as a misguided heroine rather than as a villain. You contend that she’s a Holy Crusader type, one who fights with honor, and probably wouldn’t have been a part of the Supervillain Blitzkrieg except for the fact that she feels called to fight the Evil known as Dabbler.
Your theory -could- be correct, but I see no evidence to support it. All the points you make about Heavenly Sword and her actions can be explained in other ways.
You see the fact that her name includes the word “Heavenly” is evidence that she sees herself as a holy crusader.
There is a video game called “Heavenly Sword” with a scantily clad female protagonist who uses a weapon she calls the Heavenly Sword. The sword changes shapes depending on how it is used. This all fits pretty well with the blonde lady’s power set and approach, so I can see her choosing to use the name.
You see her wearing white as proof of her “purity/holiness”.
She wears white, but she’s wearing a specifically “sexy” costume. She is wearing a body suit cut high on the hips with a keyhole in the chest, low-rider pants, and high heeled boots. That is not the kind of outfit that suggests “purity/holiness” to me. Perhaps she wears white because it can be a very effective and sexy color on blondes with the right skin tone.
You see her behavior thus far as being honorable.
Her behavior thus far could be seen as “honorable”, or it could be seen as matching the attitudes shown by almost everyone else present. She’s so confident in her powers that she does not fear death or injury and is completely convinced that she will be victorious in the end. She’s not fighting by honorable rules any more than a cat is when it plays with a mouse.
She calls Dabbler a “witch”, and you take this as proof that she sees Dabbler as evil.
It is common when a woman swears at another woman for her to use the term “witch”. There is nothing to suggest that Heavenly Sword is doing anything more than venting some of her frustration by using harsh language.
You think Heavenly Sword sees Dabbler as being evil, and even say that she must have believed this to be true before she joined the Supervillain Blitzkrieg.
What would have made her think so? At the press conference, all they showed Dabbler as being able to do was use fancy technology. When Dabbler and Heavenly Sword were fighting each other, right up until the point where Dabbler decided to use her “battle form” there was nothing that would have stood out as being a sign of Evil. If the battle form was red I can see people leaping to conclusions, and the design of Dabbler’s sword is pretty suggestive, but nothing else she has done suggests Evil.
We do not know the motivations for any of the bad guys in the Supervillain Blitzkrieg. Until we find out what convinced this lot to attack a bunch of off-duty police officers, we won’t know where Heavenly Sword fits on the whole “Jedi – Sith” scale.
+1
I still feel a little like Occam’s razor is on my side, since my theory seems to fit a number of her traits together. But you make valid points, particularly on the lack of modesty, which would most likely be out of character for someone motivated by religious fervor.
Also, that was an impressive point by point counter. I have weak responses for some of them, but it still boils down to speculation. I think Dave B mentioned that he invented her character more or less on the spot, so I suppose that does make it more likely that I’m reading things in that aren’t related. Also, that means she is less likely to be a reoccurring character, since those characters would be more likely to have been thought out ahead of time.
Maybe old Occam’s not on my side after all. Still, I like her, so I hope I’m right and she’s coming back.
I think there is a lot of wishful thinking, because we would all like to see somebody ostensibly honourable turning from a path of villainy to becoming a hero. Trouble is although Heavenly Sword has the trappings, her actions have proven them to be a lie.
I certainly would not want to serve on a team with someone like her. And I imagine that Peggy would feel the same way.
However, it shows that the villains in this world are not cardboard cut out stereotypes. So I am sure we will see some ‘bad’ guys being converted to fight for justice and apple pie, at some point. Perhaps even in this battle. Although that becomes less likely, if Heavenly does have to be killed.
I don’t know on the ‘serve with someone like her’ front: In a lot of ways, she’d be an ideal soldier. She considers her teammates, she thinks tactically, doesn’t get frustrated by temporary setbacks, and can think on her feet. If I were in a military unit I wouldn’t mind serving with someone like her, or even having her lead the team.
That however is battle traits and abilities. I do have serious issues with her goals, however loosely they’ve been defined so far. She was the leader of the group that attacked (or was attempting to be), and must have had some reason for engaging a protective military force in mortal combat. I doubt I’d like whatever it is – though ‘money’ could well be the top of the list: She strikes me as a mercenary, and there was at least one suspicious character around who could be a ‘watch what happens and retrieve anything you can’ observer. She’s obviously ready to do serious harm for minimal reason.
So, I wouldn’t mind being on a team with someone like her. Under the right circumstances, I wouldn’t even mind being on a team with her – but I’d have to be very sure of her motives, and outside of battle I wouldn’t trust her; she’s in it for herself only.
I did create one character who may appeal to your ideals. Although she was a hero to start with, rather than requiring conversion.
Like Heavenly Sword, she wore white. Unlike her though, she was always modestly dressed. In fact, humbly so. Given that she only wore peasant’s clothes and an oriental style very wide, shallow, conical hat. Obscuring her features, in shadow.
She eschewed personal glorification, so went by the name “Humble Servant”. Although, in actuality, she was the leader of a super group. But she never gave orders. She only made polite suggestions and requests. Her profile indicated that she had travelled back in time, from after some unspecified apocalypse. Any time her flesh was visible, it could be seen to be red and peeling, from whatever horrid conditions she had to endure then.
Her mission statement was “to inspire people to meet the inevitable end with dignity and courage.”
The super group base was centred around a huge cavern. Which was big enough to hold an entire forest. The heart of which had a clearing, with chairs around the edge, and a fire in the middle. The crackling fireplace, and trees rustling overhead, made for a great spot to wind down after a lengthy day fighting villainy.
Heavenly Sword can’t take a hint. Next comic, Peggy should shoot off her arm.
It would be both a kinder and quicker kill to just shoot her in the head.
Headshot, headshot, headshot. NO. You ever seen snipers take a headshot? Probably not. Because they never freakin’ do it. Center bloody mass!
Actually, yes I have. Both live (police sniper) and in training. Military snipers are taught to take “head shots” because of the intimidation factor when selecting one target out of a crowd, assassination shots if you will. In a combat situation, a center mass shot will kill but there may be time for the target to accomplish a “last gasp” action such as triggering a bomb. A head shot ends things instantly, but takes more skill to accomplish. I think Peggy can pull it off quite easily.
Fair point. She should just aim for central torso. HS has engaged with deadly force. Playing with her (or others using deadly force) results in needless casualties.
Admittedly, it makes for a much darker comic.
It is pretty difficult to do anything less-than-lethal with a rifle firing 12.7x99mm BMG ammunition. A hit to arm or leg can cause high-velocity amputation, and fragments of shattered bone can become secondary projectiles and cause additional injuries.
If Peggy goes for arm of leg hit, HS is likely to bleed to death in a minute or so.
I agree. Since Heavenly Sword is continuing to engage Dabbler with deadly force, Peggy should simply kill her. The same is true for any in the attacking force of supers who are using deadly force (HS, the speedster, and “Shadow Boxer” being examples of this).
The whip/ribbon lady was only seen the one time on the rooftop. Since she got knocked out before we could get her name or power set, it looks like we will have to invent one of our own. Any suggestions? Laser Lash? Whippersnapper?
Just wonderin’: is Devo playing in the background here?
Just wondering’ 2: will Ms. Let’s Play With Our Opponent All Day take the fight a bit more seriously now?
Dabbler, seriously, stop toying with her already. You have enough magic and enough equipment to have ended this fight before it ever got here. Someone who can beat Math, and fight Max to a standstill, has no business getting bogged down in a duel like this.
Oh, I think we may be about to see one of those 10 story tall fountains of power type reaction. And Max says “Oh SHIT!”
I agree. Up until now Dabbler has been having fun. Now she just saw her life flashing before her eyes. If her attitude changes, as a result, Heavenly Sword’s day could take a turn for the worse. In a spectacularly lethal way.
I am really interested to see how this plays out, one way or the other.
So another update, another virus alert when I visit the page using IE 11.
Virus software is: AVG Antivirus Business Edition
Threat: Trojan horse IRC/BackDoor.SdBot4.AFQr
Object name: img.lawandmarket.org16122/cars.php?diary=574
Given that an exe appears to be attempting to launch (I’m asked for permission turn it) I would guess that this is an actual malware, and not just a fluke of my anti-virus software. It’s possible, but perhaps unlikely, that this is an existing issue on my computer which is being launched by something on your page. I don’t have the proper insight at this time to say.
In future I will not use IE to view the website, but this is perhaps something you should investigate.
Thanks for the detailed info. I am sure DaveB will get things under way, on investigating that, whenever he spots your comment.
Hmm, Microsoft Security Essentials doesn’t scan websites, so I can’t confirm it but it does seem likely it’s an ad that’s doing it. If it’s still doing it and you have an ad blocker, can you turn it on and see if it goes away? I was thinking it might also be a commenters name URL, but I don’t see a match on this page.
Interesting, the energy blades on the whip seem to only appear to the sides. Since a ribbon-like whip like that would naturally lay flat when binding a person, the energy blades wouldn’t have done that much damage. (Still very painful, but basically a lot of paper cuts).
Considering how the ribbon seemed to aim at Dabbler’s head (or where it was, when she blinked), maybe Heavenly Sword can also manipulate the ribbon? (via small projections alongside it, for example; she doesn’t need an extra power)
Hm, she wrapped, then activated. Does activating her power ‘stiffen’ the object, so she can’t activate-then-wrap?
If she activated first, Dabbler would have had a moment of warning and might have dodged the actual strike. By wrapping her first to ensure she could not get away (not knowing about the blinking, of course), Heavenly thought she could get the upper hand and could severely injure or even kill Dabbler. And even with the blinking, Dabbs is looking worse for wear.
She got the equivalent of what appears to be a dozen paper cuts, plus a good-sized gash on her face. Unlikely even the full effect would’ve killed Dabbler.
Depends on whether the blades appear full-size or grow as they form. I’m not sure from the images or from her original blade formation, but I’m guessing full-size, so I’m inclined to agree with you.
There are mittens at Heavenly’s feet and she is wielding a weapon that creates multiple paper cuts. I have figured out what his happening. This is Sydney’s worst nightmare!
Sydney: “Mittens and papercuts? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
/scene change to Sydney curled up in a ball inside her Bubble
Actual scene inside Sydney’s bubble:
Sydney is standing over Shadow Boxer, who is slowly regaining awareness with his wrists and ankles tied together using his own boot laces. His boots are sitting some distance away.
Sydney: Wow, It is amazing what I remember from Girl Scouts. [ To SB ] And stay down!
With SB’s injury, I don’t think he’ll have any trouble staying down. Getting back up, OTOH….
I think I understand the argument you are trying to erect. He will not be able to do that without reconstructive surgery, methinks.
A lot depends on Dabbler’s physiology. A 2 1/2″ blade can reach the heart and lungs, shorter to get to arteries. Plus that point on the ribbon being driven at the head pretty much screams lethal. You may say they are papercuts, but if she had been there any longer I doubt there would be any question of there lethal intent.
This fight needs to be ended now. There is no other way for a law enforcement officer to look at it.
Yes, the fight needs to be ended, but does that absolutely require Heaven’s life to be ended?
It does not absolutely require. But lets put the options in your hands:*
A) Continue the sparring match. Victim: Dabbler (70%),** Heavenly Sword (25%), Heavenly Sword and innocent bystander/ other team member (5%)
B) Shoot to kill. Victim: Heavenly Sword (99%), Dabbler (1%)
C) Teleport and tazer. Victim: Heavenly Sword – SUBDUED (80%), Harem (15%), Dabbler (5%)
* Bare in mind that we know somebody is not coming out of this battle, one way or another. And it could be a central character. Plus I doubt that DaveB will pander to idly bringing characters back from the dead. It devalues the significance of sacrifice and mortality itself. So if the dice come up unfavourably that character would be permanently removed from the comic.
No cheating and quibbling the odds. They are based on current performance and are not grossly unrealistic.
This helps put the risks that real police officers have to weigh, in life-or-death situations, into perspective. I do not envy any who have to make real choices akin to this.
** Dabbler may have been toying with Heavenly, but has repeatedly thought she had the upper hand yet still underestimated her opponent. Having had to be rescued twice. And been close to death twice. She is having a bad day.
The percentage includes the possibility of panic setting in, at the near-death experience she just had. If being realistic, even heroes can loose it. All it takes is for one slip up and she is a gonner. Her opponent is simply too good, and is going for the kill.
I keep trying to bare that in mind, but it steadfastly refuses to remove its clothing. =0P