Grrl Power #216 – .50 caliber headache
I’m starting to interleave the fights a little to give them a bit more weight. Don’t worry we’ll get back to Dabbler and Heavenly on the next page. I just wanted to show Peggy being useful for a bit. She watches for ways she can contribute in a non-lethal way, which is easier than you might think when the right super powers are involved, takes a few shots, then relocates. Harem makes for an excellent spotter for a number of reasons, though I suspect that spotter scope she’s holding is entirely too powerful for the range they’re at. See the strip mall in the background of the first panel? They’re probably on the roof of the next big store down the way, figure only about 100-200 yards if a quick spot check on google maps of a similarly laid out shopping center is to be believed. I’m sure those scopes are adjustable, for what they cost they ought to be useful at a number of ranges, but ~150 yards is not exactly a challenging distance for a professional sniper.
Concretia’s powers raise all sorts of questions. If she formed her latest body out of asphalt, how is it that she has white teeth? How do her clothes transfer from body to body? They seem to be her actual clothes, but when she abandons a body, they become stone then follow her to the new body. I’ll tell you how. Super powers. They’re like magic but without all the gesticulating and pseudo latin intonations.
As always I will be at A-kon this year (June 6-8 in Dallas) and, I’ll be doing a panel on Friday. Humor-Based Webcomics 1: Humor in Story. Be sure to stop by!
My fifth Gynostar Guest strip is up! The current arc starts here.
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Math and Jabbs seem to be enjoying themselves on their first date :D
Jabbs is a great nickname for a martial artist. I approve! :)
Their kid will just be called 1,000th.
IT’S OVER 9000!!!!!!!
Well yes, I’d agree that if Math is the 999th in a line of martial artists, then there would be that largely-unspoken obligation for Math to continue the lineage. Considering that Jabber is technically a villain & will soon be officially designated as a criminal, I see Math getting custody of the kid…
Hey, if Captain Heroic and Miss Match can have a successful married life, don’t see why Math and Jabbs can’t
+1
sweet
concretia returns :)
Sort of. Momentarily.
At least now we have a better idea about her powers…she has an astral “Ghost form” that animates part of nearby objects…she could possibly do things besides rock or pavement.
Makes me wonder if she has a “real” (flesh, blood, etc.) body that’s vulnerable to attack while her spirit’s out there making golems out of the sidewalk for her to fight in.
Her real body did just get attacked. She got shot through the head. But do not worry, she was phased.
Until I clicked that link I thought it was a simple pun.
Nothing to stop her from getting up again. Except Peggy. Okay, maybe she’s down for good.
At least so far, she seems more like a person who would be down for bad.
You know, from what I see in the first panel, Math is going for a quick feel of Jabbi… (Honk, honk!)
they deflection seems about right for that
A quick sneaky feel, aimed to make the feelee more irate and open to making errors
Right, and body language is saying, “Hands off the merchandise!”
Maybe he thinks that her wokky and he’s just trying to jab it.
Math special move called “Block-cop-a-feel” It would so fit him. :P
Maybe I don’t know my surveillance tech well enough. What is the name of the device that spotter-harem is holding? It kind of looks like half a binocular. Would it just be called an ‘ocular’ without the ‘bi’?
(We all know that Harem has the ‘bi’ part covered)
A monocular. It looks like it has night-vision capacity as well. No lurking in the all-concealing shadows.
I would have gone with range-finder, but DaveB referred to it as a spotter scope, in his comments above. If she is serving as Peggy’s spotter, it probably has the former, built into the latter.
Naaaarrr, Yorp lad! That be a telescope, me hearties!
It be a spyglass, me hearties.
They show up if you google “Spotter Scope” though there may be a technical name for them.
because of her highly specialized nature (shooting at people that can be really hard to hurt), i’m not surprised she’s using a .50 cal semi auto sniper of some sort, and your notes on the range to scope power ratio seem accurate.
a good rule of thumb with most snipers is that the bullet is going to fall at about 1 inch for every 100 yards after the barrel (depends heavily on powder and bullet sizes, which would magnify these guess-timations appropriately), with drift having by far the greatest effect on accuracy at range, i.e. 300+ yards. in this case she’s at a range that any reasonably (read military) trained person could hit targets with that rifle, with much lower optics.
in fact, were i in peggy’s shoes (side note; she is the one i most identify with, being a marksmen with a bum leg, with aspirations of being a pilot, and she’s my favorite character, with anvil and harem tied for second) i would keep three weapons on standby. that sniper rifle, with a holographic either mounted on top of the scope, or angled to the side for snapping back and forth between medium long/long range to medium short range.
a smith and wesson .500 magnum (3 inch barrel, not so long that its heavy or slow to aim, and not so short as to have a monster kick, with a simple red dot for very easy close range targeting) for close in defense because lets be realistic, if i’m a non-super going against a super at close range less-lethal is not an option anymore.
and if i could i would have my spotter carry the Beowulf assault rifle (to complete the 50 cal family line up) preferably with the largest magazine available (standard is 10rds, i’m sure a way to hold more could be found), and a holo with a side folding magnifier (https://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/eg23-5.jpg – if broken google image search for “side folding scope with holographic sight”, can’t miss it,) so that the spotter could engage incoming at 100+ yards, reload and fold the magnifier away and have the holo to target easier within 100 yards.
covers all the bases but she would be a glass cannon. like a high dps mage in WoW, she’s always going to need a tank to hold aggro, or, in her specific case, harem to port her out of danger, which would likely mean leaving the sniper rifle and maybe even the beowulf behind because of harems weight limits. but there is no reason the spotter couldn’t have a scope like harem does here, with the ability to tag targets for a special scope on peggy’s rifle that adjusts automatically for range and elevations, all done by microcomputers in the gun and what not. it’s all well within the realm of reality and in fact does exist to a degree, its just too expensive for general military use and in most cases too sensitive to damage for special forces.
also i would love nicknames for the different Harems, if that isn’t already a thing, even though she doesn’t typically appear more than once in a panel, at least not to my knowledge. better come up with something now before they start getting referred to as different MLP:FiM characters based on looks alone… hell i could do it right now…
The rifle that Peggy is using is a
SPECIFICATIONS
Model: Barrett Model 95 Rifle System
Caliber:
.50 BMG
Operation:
Bolt Action Repeater
Rail Length/MOA:
11.75” (29.85 cm) 27 MOA
Weight:
23.5 lbs (10.7 kg)
Overall Length:
45” (114.3 cm)
Barrel Length/Type:
29” Fluted (73.6 cm)
Rifling Twist:
1 turn in 15” (38.1 cm)
Magazine Capacity:
5 Rounds
And the .50 BMG round can produce between 10,000 and 15,000 foot pounds (between 14 and 18 kilojoules), depending on its powder and bullet type, as well as the rifle it was fired from.
It’s actually a Barret XM-500, which is semi-automatic. It’s basically a bullpup version of the M107. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM500
i remembered the xm-500 from her cast profile, and is a great choice because the shorter overall length with the same barrel means faster aiming without loss of accuracy and semi auto beats bolt action in a rapid engagement that she would be prone to (where her AWSM bolt action is the only way to hit out at a kilometer, which is TOO specialized for this fight).
the scope could easily be variable power from 3 to 9 or some such range, making her extremely adaptable in this case. semi autos can’t drive tacs at a click but they can hit a man size target at half rapidly and reliably, so perfect choice. the 5-7 and raging judge are the tits as well, and perfect for the reasons you named.
the Beowulf was designed to allow military security forces the ability to stop a Vehicle Borne IED by shooting into the engine block. its a .50 cal that looks like an M-16 or an M-4 so that guys at checkpoints can carry it around without fear of being targeted if the driver of the VBIED has shooters in the car or on foot backing him up. unless you see the size of the barrel opening there’s pretty much no way to spot the difference at range. it does suffer from a lower accuracy than it’s smaller caliber AR brothers but its the same trade as the xm-500, speed and power over lazer point accuracy because there really is such a thing as good enough in war, but “good enough” in her hands probably becomes exceptional.
the reason I’m partial to it and the S&W .500 is because I’m a 6′ 4″ 275 lb dude who can handle the kick with little effort. it makes sense that Peggy wouldn’t carry around such heavy guns, being that she is a foot shorter than me and probably less than half my weight with the missing leg.
over all, like so many of your other characters, her abilities and equipment are very well thought out and executed, but what sets her apart in my mind is that she is the only non-super in the fray that is actually MISSING something where all the others have things so few others do. i would wholeheartedly support anything where i get to see more of her and learn more about her and her backstory, simply because so often in comics characters like her play such minor roles. also her and syd have such a fun dynamic that i loved their arc together. i go back to the beginning of this comic and read to the present about once a month. it never gets old for me, so i love the hell out of it.
Never heard of the Beowolf ARs before, I’ll have to read up. Peggy carries two sidearms. One is a FN five seven, since against non armored targets you don’t need a lot of stopping power if you can reliably hit someone in the eye or kneecap, the other is a Taurus Raging Judge, chambered to .454 casull, for when she does need more stopping power. Harem is armed with a tazer, pepper spray, and an M99 injector, cause if Peggy can’t stop someone with a gun, it’s going to take something other than a gun to stop them.
And Harem already refers to herself by her fashion choices. Goth, Vogue, Co-Ed, Punk, and either Vanilla, Girl Next Door, or Farmer’s Daughter for her non-trussed up strawberry blonde one.
Have already come up with personal names for the individual Daphnes (as a whole, they are all ‘Daphne’, but for identifying individuals)
Pink hair/least modded:- Berry (for her strawberry blonde hair)
Goth:- Gothette (may change that to ‘Layla’ after the older sister in Eerie Cuties because of the skull-baggette/hairpin)
Blonde:- Blondini (still not sure about that name)
Punk:- Bodie (pronounce “Bow*-dee” *ribbon bow) this came after comments talking possible historic female fighter names and Boadicia in particular
White/Co-ed:- Abbey (named after that cute scientist from NCIS, this one seems more ‘Abbey’-like than Gothette)
i like berry, bodie and abbey. berry is simple and easy to remember for the strawberry like you said, bodie because if i could pick a wife from any woman in history it would be Boudica because REASONS, and abbey because again its simple and i love abbey from NCIS, so over all, good names.
Was just thinking “Gothamer” (similar to “Gossamer”) instead of “Gothette”
The problem with your choice of weapons “to complete the 50 cal family line up” is that none of them use the same shell. So regardless that you’re firing heavy rounds out of each, you have to hump enough of three different kinds of ammo in order to be sure that you don’t run dry in any of them. And that gets heavy, fast. It really is a poor choice, and appears to be based upon the sole requirement that high power firearms are going to be superior in all cases. That could not be more wrong.
Many years ago (say, 15+) some friends of mine had a “survival gear” throwdown where we all had to list the weapons and gear we would want in a survival situation. The exact situation was somewhat open ended, but anything from a Lucifer’s Hammer type ecological disaster to a limited nuclear exchange was the assumption. The gear selected was measured against what a single person could be expected to carry, as well as their food and other gear such as canteen, mess kit, etc.
I chose a 9mm rifle, a 9mm assault rifle, and a 9mm pistol. All of which can use the exact same 9×19 shells. The rifle is good for hunting just about any any game. It won’t blow apart a possum or a beaver, and it can take down an elk. The assault rifle is good against people, and the pistol is a good side arm.
All of my friends chose weapons of different calibers, which multiplied their ammunition weights by 3x and which would see them run out of ammo for one or two of their weapons and be forced to rely on the third in what might not be optimal conditions. I won.
Yea, sensible option. Even better if you have chosen weapons that are simple to maintain and make improvised repairs to.
Personally I would look to history. The nearest real-life situation corresponding to the loose scenarios you posed was the defence of Stalingrad. Taking into account the implied threat to survival from others, due to an ongoing war, and/or scarcity of resources.
I already live in a rural setting, with rich farmland and natural springs. So would not need to be mobile. It is an ideal zombie apocolypse survival area. Far enough from a city that it is not at direct risk from a nuclear attack on it. As such, carrying capacity would not be an issue for me. Rather mine would be to ensure the safety of a defensible home. Which I already have.
Also I would anticipate that any type of ammo will run out eventually, and therefore follow the example of the Stalingrad defenders. Namely to set up a home weapons workshop, in order to be able to produce my own ammunition.
It would require bartering and co-operation with others, in order to create and supply such a set-up. But I am all for retaining as much of the fabric of society as possible, and rebuilding what is lost, rather than hoofing it off into the wilderness.
Besides which, I am pretty sure my cosy armchair would not fit in a backpack.
Is Concretia’s lipstick vanishing in panel 8 a design choice?
Also “Concretia”… really? : P
Dave notes elsewhere her real nom de guerre is Anima. She is showing her teeth, with her lips pulled back in a painful grimace. That bullet might not be fatal, but I think it really did hurt. Or Anima is upset that she just lost half her brand-new head.
Or, the sound and feeling of a .50 caliber round going right through your head is startling. No one wants to be shot at with bullets if they’re not immune.
You have to start small by shooting yourself will low caliber bullets to build up a tolerance……
(ducks and runs….)
But if you choose a small caliber that’s not small enough of your first try, you only get the ONE shot at it.
Probably best to start with a peashooter & work up from there…
I can see a potential flaw with this…
Lead is a cumulative poison, which your body can never purge from your system. Unless you have high calibre resistance, you will rapidly build up a fatal dose.
Not *quite* true. It is insanely difficult to do so naturally, but lead can be purged through chelation therapy.
“Start talkin’ or you’re gonna lose another head, Jeebs.” – K, Men in Black
Hmmm…I wonder if Peggy can shoot something about her that WON’T grow back…
Concretia seems to have the power of intangibility, but she can semi-telefrag herself into an object to controll it, without allowing harm to come to her. This only raises the question if she can rematerialise or does she require assimilating stone to become solid? Also the colours on the stone are probably just an ilusion, or her intangible body clipping trough the rock.
i once created a dragon human hybrid like this where the young have to earn the phisical body. so first the are spectraly like this, then they make armor with some sort of elemental forge abillitie. onces they have gotten strong enough to manipulate the full set of armor then they could participate in a trial to become flesh and blood
I remember an Alpha Flight character from the 50’s called Box. His body could become ethereal, and take over any machine to turn it into a robot. this is marvel comics BTW.
Actually, Box could only do that with the specific “Box” robot. though i believe it may have been a technopath while inside it.
I have to admit, Concretia(who needs a new name) is my favourite villain so far. Not because she got defeated twice in a row so quickly, but because of her range of displayed emotions so far. Between hubris, self-recrimination, determination, and startlement(which, to be fair, only half her face had to be drawn for), I’m really liking how expressive she is.
She is Anima. Although I imagine both the HUD name and the Who’s who will remain as is, until she properly introduces herself, in comic.
*adjusts monocle, gives manacles a polish*
Ha, in panal 1 math is totally coping a feel
He has not reached it just yet.
At the moment, he can pass it off as an “accidental bewb-brush”
Anima’s real flesh-and-blood body might be somewhere nearby, and her “spirit” has left her body and animated body-shaped volume of matter. The clothing the “Concretia” body appears to be wearing could be the shapes and colors of the clothes hear real body is wearing.
To put it in game terms, Anima could have used large amount of mental power to form a concrete body, and then use a small amount of power to maintain the animation effect. When Math broke her concrete body, she had to use large amount of power to form another body from asphalt. After Peggy broke the asphalt body, she will have to make another one if she has enough power left.
While Anima is fighting using the animated form, her real body might be comatose in a back of a van.
Dave’s already said that Anima’s physical body phases into this spirit body which can then animate inanimate materials.
Yea, I had been thinking that as one of the options too. But DaveB has indicated that she is just phased.
From that I take it that her clothes simply phase with her. So when she merges with a new body, the clothes just unphase (aka materialise) on that body.
One problem with that: panel 4 shows the first corpse still wearing the top, and spirit Cree is not nude
That is umm… a good point… but… ahah, it is just the fossil imprint left behind in the rock. Honest.
Or, as DaveB explained in the text below the comic “Super powers. They’re like magic but without all the gesticulating and pseudo latin intonations.”
I have a minor problem with the sniper shot. A head shot with a .50 caliber shouldn’t leave a head behind. Unless Anima makes herself into something as tough as solid steel, and even then the damage would be pretty impressive. The Barrett is designated as an “anti-material” weapon because the main purpose of the thing is killing vehicles.
With no liquid contained in the head to cause a hydrostatic explosion, the bullet would do just what it did. Punch a hole right through. The reason the .50 cal works as a vehicle killer is it’s ability to penetrate to the engine/transmission and cause physical damage that knocks the operating parts out of alignment, and it doesn’t take all that much misalignment stop an engine.
I started poking the net and doing some research. To my great embarrassment, I appear to be the victim of Hollywood Exaggeration. A Barrett at 200 yards will shoot right through your typical cinder block, brick, or foot thick concrete wall, but a three foot thick reinforced concrete wall will stop the round after it makes just a two inch deep hole.
I was thinking it would turn a solid stone head into dust. It wouldn’t do that, there would be some respectable size chunks left. Concrete would fare worse. Solid steel would probably just be dented.
I was also thinking Anima’s stone body was solid. Looking more closely I see that the head at least is hollow. I’m not at all sure how that would turn out. Her head was tough enough that Math’s kick didn’t shatter it, so it is at least as sturdy as bone. I’d have expected more damage from the rifle round, but with a hollow object I am only guessing.
She probable need some space inside for her spirit,look how she break her own finger off to escape the damaged body.
I don’t think she has to break the shell to escape it, I think she was trying to move her hand, but it broke instead of moving, so she then decided to abandon it.
If you look closely, those 2 digits are cracked, the only thing keeping them intact is her spirit form holding them in place, and whatever she does to ‘animate’ the shell seems to have run out so when she wriggles her digits those 2 snapped off
Concretea should be solid stone, but her spirit self ist slightly smaller than the animated stone body (see panel 3). So I think the same thing applies to her head, the “dark hollow space” is most likely simply the stone shrouded by her spirit form. There is probably not enough debris in the air shown in panel 8 though.
Remember, too, that asphalt is pretty soft. It’s like the Play-Doh of rock. The bullet could easily tear off a chunk while leaving the rest alone.
I don’t think that Anima’s asphalt head is hollow. I think it only suggests that because the image shown has the phased Anima over the asphalt body, which obscures the fact that the body is solid asphalt.
Yes, a .50 cal round will punch a hole in a target such as a cinderblock or a chunk of asphalt, and it will leave a small hole on the front and will blast a larger hole on the “exit wound.” This is dependent on the shell used, of course. Here is a Barrett firing through a cinderblock wall and killing 3 insurgents behind the wall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJM0YBrILGI
Start at 5:40 for the exact example of Barrett utilization.
Note: The gore shown is all History Channel theatrics. No actual gore is shown in this video.
Here is an example of a ricochet of a .50 cal round almost decapitating a guy. There is no gore, I wouldn’t post a link to something like that, but the ricochet took the firers ear protection right off his head, and 2″ to the left would have killed him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc
He was very, very lucky. He appears to be firing into a dirt berm. I can only assume that the round hit a rock and bounced back.
Which makes me wonder about all the times my family got together when I was a kid and did some competitive shooting which mostly included thing like “You see that rock over there? I’m going to plug it.” And then multiple rounds would be sent at that rock until it was hit. But never did we have such a ricochet as is shown in this video. But then we weren’t firing .50 cal rounds. Probably the most powerful was a .300 Winchester Magnum.
oh hush, one person cannot be expected to know everything about everything. besides, this is fantasy, who’s to say she isn’T making the concrete harder too?
Fat lot of good sniping is gonna do Peggy in the long run. She can’t shoot Concretia’s astral body, and she’s smart enough to go for a different body type next. See how well Peggy can shoot threw a steel body.
But that’s just what we want. Then Max can swoop in and melt her arms into handcuffs, and by that time she will hopefully be too weak from changing so many bodies that she wouldn’t be able to answer.
Max doesn’t melt things. That’s someone else on the team entirely. And She doesn’t look too tired in switching bodies no so I doubt she will if she has too. Plus if Concretia can still have enough control while said sup is trying to melt her she can still use her body as a weapon. See how that hero likes melted metal in there eye.
That would be Heatwave (AKA Brooke). She can do everything heat related frm popping popcorn to melting tanks.
She’s already melted Mr. Amorphous’s heart.
Those feeling the need to gag at the saccharine sweetness of the above comment may do so now.
Not just his heart ;)
Depends on bullet type, I’d imagine.
I kinda feel sorry for Anima, she been beaten by two of the “non supers” of the team
at least she’s not “HOMERUN” guy.
Always look on the bright side of life.
Looking at Peggy’s comment in the final panel, makes me think that the following is being updated, by a villain standing underneath a tree:
Name:………………….Pinky
Known powers:…….Sniper
Threat level:…………Mostly harmless
Nice.
Glass pea shooter class.
The villain would have already known that if he consulted the Guid (she is on Earth, after all).
Well, at least I got the tags right, but it should be “Guide”.
Lots of talk about Concretia making a body out of something stronger, like metal. I don’t know where she’s going to get a large enough metal block, but I think something softer, like sand, would be a better choice.
Cars…
IDK, cars are mostly Fiberglass and Aluminum nowadays. she’d have to strip off all the extra stuff to just to get to the steal, and even then, if there is enough to make a body. I’ve seen a 50cal round go through some thick steel plates.
OK, then a quick trio through the kitchen. Couple stoves, couple vent hoods, a keg or two, and voilà, Gordon Ramsey blows a gasket and her new name is kitchen disaster…
Sydney becomes the passwall types containment system, LOL
Yea, the thought had crossed my mind. Aside from the problem of Sydney being imprisoned with them, in order to pull that off, there is also the cruel and unusual punishment of… Sydney being imprisoned with them.
+1
Well this puts a new wrinkle on it. Such powers would befit a master magician. She does more than just go intangible from body-to-body she transforms it with each sitting or over shadowing of them.But when she is settled she is concrete. I don’t have a problem with her name. I recommend to others to get over it now or it will get in the way of enjoying this comic in the future.
Anima is lucky she stays phased in her new form. If she just did the phaseing to put on a new suit and then walked around as a concrete shell filled with meaty goodness that would have killed her.
~300 meters with battle sights on an M16A2 is expected for any Army combat soldier and hitting 23 of 40 gets a marksman badge (fairly shameful). I qualified with a Civilian Expert with 39/40 (lost a round to a misfeed) fairly easily and regularly group shots in about a 7″ diameter at 300 meters in an outdoor range (can get headshots all day with no wind). Anyone could pull off a 150 meter shot with about a week’s training on weapon use. I usually range shoot at around 500 meters with irons and do fairly well even though I have lousy eyesight.
Peggy could probably get away without a sight at all from that distance if she’s a part of ARCHON. A spotter is pretty much useless at that range and if supers weren’t involved, I would be tempted to say a 50 cal is probably slightly worse since they’re normally equipped with a long range sight on it due to difficulty lining up the shot. A high powered scope makes it hard to target a moving object close up since a small hair’s breadth movement will throw you off by a few radians. The target would just blur past your scope unless you were moving the rifle VERY slowly and objects in the scope would be huge, making it tough to know exactly what you’re aiming at.
I wouldn’t say a spotter is useless on that distance. He would still be good for a general overview of the battlefield and target selection at the least.
But I do agree, that a scope would probably hurt more than help. Diopter sights wouldn’t be quite as bad, but not perfect as well. At this distance, open sights might actually be the best choice, allowing you to follow motions and react quickly. And with a good rifle, you won’t have problems getting clear hits with an open sight even on greater distances.
I remember the test in the Swiss army (mandatory for anyone with a rifle, combat troops or not). It’s on 300 meters, outdoor range. First five single shots on a target type A5 (meaning standard round target ranging from 1 to 5). Then five single shots on target type B4 (inner circle 4 points, around it figure of a stylised upper body giving 3 points, outside of it standard circles), two shots in series, three shots in series and finally five shots in series on the same target. 80 points possible in total, 72 points nets you a marksman badge.
Of course right before we took it, some funny guys changed all the settings on my sights to the extreme positions and I had only one pass at the program to rearrange them. Was still working on them during the test even before the fiver series on the B4. So I only got 69 points and missed the badge. :-/
A picture of both an A5 and B4 target: https://www.fsbueblikon.ch/images/scheiben.gif
85 points maximum possible of course, sorry.
Harem is also standing up there for the simple reason that Peggy may need backup if a villain can teleport or fly over there.
Too many comments to scroll through to check … but I have to say …
TUCKER DID IT!
Why non-lethal ways? Don’t get me wrong, as super hero’s its kind of a thing. Fighting without killing. Buuuut… a couple problems come to mind when you consider this super hero team specifically.
First, they’re a military organization. They should really know better then to give someone a gun and say go for non-lethal shots. Not to mention the military is, while not exactly fine with killing in this policitcally correct day and age, pragmatic enough to know its necessary to defend ones self sometimes.
Secondly, I’ve had Maxima’s awesome hellfire speech as a background for a while. I’m pretty sure she suggested that killing villains was on the table if they want to cross the line. Isn’t trying to use lethal force against government forces kind of a line for the military? Sure, -some- of the heroes can handle it fine. But what more realistically a surprise assault could take lives even with pure luck. Not to mention Maxima has hinted that she has killed supers before.
Now I get it. The tone of the comic, the characters, and even the powers make it not only possible but believable when you take things into account. But you’ve touched one too many times into different tones, both with the military super hero team and the hellfire speech itself, for me to completely ignore it. I think personally you’d have been better off making a different joke rather then calling to attention she’s doing non-lethal stuff, let it slide past us. (Similar to how mentioning the speed lines in a past comic made me notice them in it when otherwise my perception simply accepted what they were).
Is an aesthetic balance I still think you need practice with. The writing is great, the art is great, the story is great, the tone is great, and the jokes are great but my complaints so far have been when they weren’t all considered together.
The speed lines worked. Until you mentioned them.
The name things popping up worked and you gave an awesome reason for them. Until you failed to keep the reason we as readers were seeing them consistent.
And finally the tone of the story works. Until here it doesn’t.
Find the balance man.
Err, so many poorly written sentences in that Comment. Need caffeine. Apologies, sentiments good, words bad, hope understand good. Arillius go get coffee now.
Police forces are required to use proportionate response to attacks. Likewise they are meant to use non-lethal options, when available. Being a military unit conducting police duties makes no difference to that. If Maxima ordered a blanket ‘shoot to kill’ order, in these circumstances and/or any of the team chose to attempt to kill a target who was not posing a clear and present danger, then they would be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, abuse of authority, attempted murder and a bunch of other crimes.
Maxima’s orders were perfectly acceptable rules of engagement. Try to take them down without killing them. But giving the team the option of using lethal force if required. From then on the judgement call is down to them individually.
So far Concretia has only hit two individuals who are all but immune to punching damage, so were at no risk. And she never laid a finger on Math, so no intent to kill could be shown there. Of course, if Concretia were to approach Peggy looking like she had intent to strike, then it would be fair for her to be alarmed and in fear of her life. Given how Concretia does have super strength, and Peggy has no defence against that. In which case it would be fair for her to use lethal force to protect herself.
If this was a police force that would stand as a fair reason. The fact is, it’s a -Military- Police force meant to monitor and control excessively dangerous.. er… dangers. Which super villains happen to fall under. Maxima is required as a military officer to look after her own when under attack before the enemy. They are attacking with means that could be lethal to any number of their team. Just because ‘they haven’t shot the right people yet’ doesn’t mean they won’t realize that Maxima is invulnerable and they need to after the soft squishy one that’s not gold plated and shaped like a wall.
No, random death like that is not in keeping with the tone of the story. But I’m -thinking- about it because of poorly timed and phrased humor juxtaposed with earlier concepts and ideas raised. I’m not saying the non-lethal approach is wrong. Super hero, and yes government funded super military teams, do it all the time. I’m saying that he has to be careful to balance the tone so that I don’t start questioning why Maxima is giving such a dangerous order to soldiers. Its part of the whole balancing act writers and especially writers working with a visual medium like comics.
I, personally, from my own subjective point of view, think he flubbed it enough to take me out of the story. And I wanted to let him know that and why as constructively as I could.
Constructive feedback is always good, and appreciated. And, if it took you out of the moment, that is important for Dave to know.
Hopefully I may be able to bring you around though, by mentioning some points. Maxima’s speech had two main tenants to it. One was to let individuals who thought that they were uniquely gifted, and could therefore get away with anything, know that they are not alone. The cops have super powers too and will stop you.
The other being a clear warning. Cops have to do this kind of thing. “Armed police, put down your weapon”. It means that the villains need be in no doubt, if they attempt lethal force against the public, or the police, they will be met like with like. ARC SWAT will kill if necessary.
Note the emphasis on the last. If they get the balance wrong on this, it will cause fear amongst the general populace. It is the distinction between a police state and a non-repressive oligarchy.*
Very importantly Maxima has observed that the villains did not act with indiscriminate intent to commit mass-murder. If I had planned that attack, the first sign of it would have been the restaurant being hit by a wave of explosions and other deadly attacks. Everybody weaker than Maxima or Achilles (including Dabbler and Halo) would have been wiped out before they had a chance to raise defences.
Rather the villains have fallen back to old tribal rituals. Facing off against their opponents, chanting threats, and ‘throwing a few spears’. They are hard-wired into us from millions of years of evolution. Just look at any playground for confirmation of my assertion. These customs are vital to avoid out of control escalation. So long as Maxima responds in kind, then a de-facto code of super combat becomes the norm.
If both sides strike to incapacitate, rather than kill, then they can still find out who is stronger. Either side could win, and reap the rewards. But without having to bury friends. In return, the courts will reflect the restraint shown by the charges and sentences levied. Shadow Boxer intended to kill and will get harshly treated. Others will get lighter sentences.
Whereas if villains are in fear of their lives, they will always strike to kill. The cops will only loose, in that numbers game. Like any guerilla war, the representatives of the state are always visible and vulnerable. Whereas the terrorists/rebels can blend into the general populace.
* “Democracy” would have fitted the sentence much better, but would be factually inaccurate.
The order was “non-lethal, if possible”
Since when has the police, and especially the military ever had to use restraint when using lethal force? Cops use excessive force and shoot people and especially dogs all the time now a days and get nothing more than a slap on the wrist. And people in the military always use lethal force. Like when there drone striking a entire village just to get one person and all the civilian casualties are just a write off in the end.
Well, for one, the military and the police are at least nominally expected to exercise appropriate restraint at all times. Yes, there are numerous examples of both the military and the police ignoring that, but that doesn’t mean that other military/law enforcement organizations have a mandate to follow suit.
Bottom line, Faulk, Maxima, and the rest are trying to be good guys. So they exercise the restraint that everyone else ought to.
Ought to being the key word there. Ought to but don’t. You know the saying a few bad apples spoil the bunch and that meaning that it may not prove but doesn’t deny both institutions being rotten to the core.
I must strongly disagree on that point. For Britain, and most of it’s former colonies the army and police have done a phenomenal job. They have preserved the countries from external invasion and allowed peaceful society to flourish in stability. For centuries. The forces have served their purpose. In those instances where corruption has been found, it gets investigated and reforms get implemented.
No human institution is without flaw, but both members of the armed forces and the police (and other emergency services) dedicate their careers and risk their lives in the service of society and the protection of others. They deserve our gratitude and respect. Unless you can show a system that would preserve our freedom and security better, it is unworthy to say they are rotten to the core. Even if (hopefully) in jest.
EMPHATICALLY +1
Not saying that (as one example) everybody in Australia’s military and police forces have always been beyond reproach. But considering all that these organizations do despite the hands often dealt to them, they and the overwhelming majority of people in them have my deepest respect.
https://photographyisnotacrime.com/
Yeah, everyone will tell me that “those” types of cops are the very small minority. Well, even if that’s true, the rest of the “good ones”, as regulars of the above site know, will cover for the bad ones as much as they can. And even when the shitty cops do end up getting charged, those charges are usually either dropped or end up resulting in a slap on the wrist.
For myself, I’ve had nothing but good experiences with police officers, but let’s not lionize them.
Let’s not condemn all for the actions of a few either.
Well, I watched that for about four and a half minutes, before getting bored. But, even with what I had seen up until that point, I feel that it is fair an investigative team should check out his story. At home or otherwise.
I have no idea how the rest of the clip plays out, but if someone wants to go around filming sensitive government buildings they can expect to get checked out in return. Until such checks are performed there is no way to determine if he is a terrorist, with a bullshit line about being an investigative reporter, or just an irritating pain in the butt wasting police time.
Doubtless there is more to it than that, but my eyelids started drooping. If there was any abuse of power, then I am sure corrective action can be taken, what with it all having been recorded. But that does corroborate my point. Thanks to the fact that our police do support the rule of law, we are allowed to be pains in the butt, if we choose to be. Try doing that in less enlightened states, and you will simply not be seen again.
So, where abuses exist, carry on recording and reporting them. And seeing it through until corrective action is taken. That is all part and parcel of operating in and keeping society free. But you could not do it unless the rest of the police (and armed forces) were not sympathetic to, and in cooperation with, you doing that. So do not fixate on the bad, so much that you forget the good.
Given that my previous post simply fought my corner of the argument, I thought that another, less one-sided reply might be in order too. It may interest you to know of the latest initiative being introduced by the London Metropolitan police. Namely individual cameras continually recording each police officer.
Personally I would hate to have my every working moment recorded. And any error picked over and being used to determine if I should be fired or not. But it does go to answering your concerns about abuse of police power. If the pilot scheme is successful, it may well be rolled out to other police forces in the UK, and may be picked up by other national police too.
I think that the scheme would work a lot better if we also introduced a greater degree of lassitude in dealing with any infringements uncovered. Up until now, because of the covering up and closing of ranks, police had some protection from the fact that we are all human and make mistakes. So minor infringements, I think we should just accept as part and parcel of every day life. Say rough handling of somebody who is abusive and resisting arrest.
Gross infringements, such as arbitrarily beating up a prisoner, perjury, accepting a bribe, or the like, is another matter. They need to have the book thrown at them.
Likewise, it would actually be a perfect time for us to re-introduce the concept of police giving unruly kids ‘a clip around the ear’ (in a less literal sense). It used to be considered perfectly acceptable and a normal part of life. Political correctness has put an end to it. Which has worsened society. Because of gross abuses, such as sadistic police bullying and persecuting individuals, a blanket ban was enforced on all corporal punishment. Despite clear benefits that could be obtained if properly monitored and controlled.
With the introduction of helmet cams that can actually be re-introduced, and judged easily and fairly, in the event of a complaint. And if the footage shows the complainant is bullshitting, they aught to get another slap, on the spot. Trouble is, of course, that we will not do that. So the police will have to be less vigorous in enforcing the law, than they are at the moment, and criminals will become increasingly abusive and get away with more.
This may help the principles of a free state. But it will make life a lot better for criminals, in the process.
So it is entirely possible that we will discontinue the pilot scheme as unworkable. Because improving police effectiveness and increasing political correctness do not go hand in hand. Common sense is required to do both, but you do not see many politicians who will legislate based on that.
Yeah, that pretty much happened over here when some mental case decided to introduce an “Anti-Smacking Law”. Admittedly, it was introduced to stop abusers, the problem is, all it’s down is teach kids that they can do literally anything they want and not even the police can (figuratively) touch them, and fairly sure it hasn’t done anything to stop the abusers either, so all it’s done is made discipline illegal (you see a kid about to run out onto a busy street with a truck coming, all you can do is stand by and start dialing for an ambulance because, even if it’s your own kid, you can’t “man-handle” them to stop them running out)
Remember https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes ?
The London police claimed that there was a “technical problem” which prevented there from being any CCTV footage of the police shooting an innocent man.
Cameras recording police aren’t inherently a bad idea, but they need to be accompanied by a presumption that “losing the footage” or “technical problems” is the police destroying evidence. Otherwise you’ll just get a continuous stream of “technical problems”.
Switching from a presumption of innocence to a presumption of guilt is fine. Just be sure to apply it equally and fairly. So in presuming that the police covered it up, you must also presume that the person who was killed was guilty. In which case, in a future, similar, circumstance the police need not ‘loose’ any footage. They can simply presume he is guilty and just openly shoot him.*
Personally I prefer our current situation, where both the victim and the police are presumed innocent, until proven otherwise.
Although am quite happy to switch to a ‘on the balance of probabilities’ system. In which case society would have to accept that there will be a higher proportion of miscarriages of justice, as an inevitable result. But it would minimise the abuses that occur, due to the far harder standard of proof required to convict ‘beyond the shadow of a doubt’.
And, in a crisis situation, a best guess if often all that can be done. We should not condemn those who took a tough call, based on what information was available at the time. They acted in good faith, not with malicious intent.
But, that issue aside, yea, if a cop’s personal camera only seems to stop working when he is alone in a cell with a suspect, who mysteriously develops bruising during the lapsed time, I certainly would not extend him the benefit of the doubt.
* Incidentally, as a promise to any cop out there, if there is a wave of bombings ** and you see a person ,who matches intelligence reports of being a suicide bomber, coming onto a crowded public vehicle, you have my guarantee, should I end up on your jury, I will not find you guilty of misconduct, if you shoot him first and ask questions later.
All due sympathy to the relatives that, in this instance, he turned out to be an innocent man. But I do not want our police forces to have to second guess, due to unrealistic political correctness, when there is a train full of passengers’ lives at stake.
** Read the article, there had been an attempted bombing just the day before, and a successful one two weeks before *** and this guy matched the description of one of the suspects. So it is not a case of shooting somebody because he was wearing Arabic clothing or being ‘foreign looking’.
*** In which a close friend of mine could have died. He had just missed that train. I spent most of the day thinking he had been killed, as did his wife and son. Until he managed to get back in touch. So I admit bias in this.
That’s not a fair comparison. The police are in control of the footage, either directly or indirectly. The suspect isn’t. There’s no reasonable way that the footage can be “lost” because of criminal activity by the suspect rather than by the police, so the assumption should be made for the police only.
** Read the article, there had been an attempted bombing just the day before, and a successful one two weeks before *** and this guy matched the description of one of the suspects.
I don’t particularly care. I’m not (here) complaining about the shooting, but the coverup. “Technical problems” with the footage in situations like this are very likely to be a coverup, but there aren’t enough controls on losing the footage to disincentivize the police from doing coverups.
Too avoid my post being too heavily negative, let me first off agree that the footage from police personal cameras would need to be properly stored, and controlled, to prevent corruption and abuse. If we can get police forces to agree to rolling out the scheme nationwide. I certainly would tell anyone trying to fit me with a camera, recording my every action, to go poke it, where the sun does not shine. So they are better people than me, to even agree to a pilot scheme.
Please bear in mind the original assertion, regarding this, is that ‘police are corrupt to the core’. I do not consider this to be a fair stance, and so vigorously defend against it. Any instances where police are found to be guilty of corruption and cover-ups, can and do, result in cops going to prison. But how is this done? With the aid and co-operation of other cops.
There are many countries in the world where this does not happen.
If you can constructively propose some alternative way of keeping a peaceful and stable society, that does not involve police, please do so. I shall listen attentively. I am always, genuinely, interested in hearing better ways of doing things. Until then, I feel the need to knock down the flawed arguments you raised. As follows:
So you want the rest of society to retain presumption of innocence, but anybody who’s job it is to protect society is automatically presumed to be guilty? If that gets enacted you will find very few people willing to enter public service. The sheer number of false accusations, that we know to be levelled against police, every day, would mean that they would all go to jail before the year was out.
Nobody else would be willing to join the police, under those circumstances. And pretty soon you would degenerate to just having warlords and gangs ruling the country.
Sorry, the principles of a fair society is that the same rules apply to everyone. Unless you have proof that the cops are covering something up, then the presumption is that they are innocent.
Besides which we had plenty of eye witnesses to the incident, so it is not like we do not know what happened. There is no need for a cover-up. You are not going to get a train full of people lying about what they witnessed. So going on about missing footage is just smoke with no substance. It is not going to show anything we do not already know. The guy was a suspected terrorist, who got shot by the police. End of story.
Probably best we leave it there though, once you have had the opportunity to put any reply you may want. We are too far into real world politics and the debate would only get heated with entrenched positions. I have already indicated that I am biassed on that incident, so nothing you could say would shift my stance on that.
As a final note though, anybody who has had genuine bad experiences with the police does have my every sympathy. We cannot, and must not, tolerate gross abuse of power, by people in a position of authority. Bad cops must be brought to justice, as with any other criminals.
Any instances where police are found to be guilty of corruption and cover-ups, can and do, result in cops going to prison. But how is this done? With the aid and co-operation of other cops.
You have set up a catch-22. If the police are not caught being corrupt, it proves the police are okay. If they are caught, because other cops helped catch them, it still proves that the police are okay.
Not only is this a catch-22, it ignores the possibility that they are corrupt but nobody managed to catch them. If the police really did destroy the footage in the Menezes case, do you seriously think it’s inevitable that they would be caught doing so? “Losing” footage or having “technical difficulties” should be treated at least as harshly as if a business were to be audited by the tax service and claim that they “lost” all their prior years’ business records.
So you want the rest of society to retain presumption of innocence, but anybody who’s job it is to protect society is automatically presumed to be guilty?
If you put them in a position where they are free to destroy evidence about themselves, there’s not much else you can do. Or do you expect there to be evidence for them destroying the evidence? What if they destroy that evidence too? You *have* to make them responsible for the security of the evidence.
If you don’t like the idea of presuming them guilty of the main offense, you should at least have a severe enough punishment for missing evidence that the police don’t find it a favorable tradeoff to destroy the evidence in order to avoid getting caught for the main crime.
we had plenty of eye witnesses to the incident… There is no need for a cover-up.
Yes, there is. While the existence of witnesses means the police couldn’t cover up the entire incident, they could cover up details like in what order events happened, whether he made threatening gestures, whether he was in a position to know that police are chasing him, or whether he was wearing something that could have made the police confused about who he was. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable about such details.
“show a system that would preserve our freedom and security better”
If humanity could just learn apathy (not even asking for tolerance here), there would be almost no need for external security (armies and such to fight wars), and a reduced need for internal security (to stop crimes).
….. But with that degree of apathy, whatever then passes for humanity would all probably be sitting in caves trying to figure if rocks are edible.
You may think that “those types,” are just a rare few but it happens more often than you think. Cops and prosecutors railroading, jumping to conclusions, interrogating people like they did it when they might not have, and ignoring or concealing key evidence just so they can put someone away for a gruesome crime get the “W,” for them and close the case. Often times this leads to innocent people getting sent to prison or to death row for crimes they never committed. Cops also get to man handle people, and shoot pets and people without worrying about repercussions because they know that all the other cops will back them up, and any disciplinary action that is taken will be ether waved off or amount to a slap on the wrist. Then in the worst case scenario we have cops ether helping criminals or leading criminal actions for the high profit they stand to gain. What are people suppose to do? they have a badge they don’t.
As for the military the same can be said for them. Many times in the past the military have committed horrible acts, such as civilian shooting and bombing, use of excessive force, rape, torture, mass killing, ect. Though not many people may care since it’s happening in another country and they don’t see it and not here.
Understand I do not condone the shooting of a innocent person just because people can’t be bothered to make shore he was the guilty one. And I doubt it’s much condolence to there families ether. And while I know that they do do allot they should not be overly idolized as “they can do no wrong.”
Many of the points you make are valid and fair. As regards
I have never claimed that. Cops are human. Humans have a proportion of criminal and aberrant people within their populations. Given that we have no alternative populations available, to draw our police and military from, we will inevitably have them within the police too.
Until we can figure out how to get dolphins patrolling the streets, all we can do is assess recruits to the best of our ability. Then do everything we can to weed out, the ones that turn out bad, from the rest.
Of course some of the things that happen are as an intrinsic result of their jobs. Put people in the worst of situations that humanity can create and the stresses can break down anybody, good or bad. If somebody is suffering from post dramatic stress syndrome, or the like, as a result of serving society, then it is symptomatic that we, as society, have failed to adequately prevent that from happening. And we shoulder our fair share of the responsibility for the consequences, and whatever restoration can be made.
Those crimes which fall outside of such mitigating circumstances, stemming from corruption or sadism, for example, need to dealt with harshly. Abuse of authority and a position of responsibility does result in tougher court sentences, over and above the crimes themselves. I have no sympathy for such individuals, nor do I pretend that they do not exist, nor minimise the numbers that there may be.
But saying that ‘all cops are rotten’ is not a fair reflection of our society*. A vital part, of combating corruption and abuse, is to recognise that good cops (and servicemen) do exist. And for us to distinguish what makes them good, in order to find ways to maximise the number of those we have available. One of the most defining characteristics being those people who have a genuine desire to serve society, protect people and ‘make a difference’ in their lives.
The thing that motivates those kind of people, more than the money or other perks of the job, is the recognition and respect that they should be given, if they serve society well. They will get vilified by the criminal and anti-social elements of society. So the rest of us need to compensate for that, and openly show that we appreciate the risks and sacrifices that they make, to protect us.
Despise and scorn bad cops. Praise and support good cops. Fail to do that and you can push good cops into becoming indifferent cops. And increase the chance that any cop will reach their breaking point, and either swing a punch or shoot you. Every time you dis a good cop, you worsen both your own karma and society in general.
* Most of the industrialised western nations.
I think you will find that an important note for all armed military and civil forces is the requirement to use the; “minimum necessary force” under most rules of engagement including those used by NATO and UN forces. This means that the individual has to decide how much damage is required to remove the threat. In this situation Maxima is simply ensuring everyone (and by everyone I really mean Sydney as she hasn’t been in long enough to finish orientation much less start her training) understands that she doesn’t want unrestricted use of violence which will cause massive collateral damage and/or death to the surroundings (she did explain this to Sydney before; https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1223)
Killing villains is on the table—Maxima did say to try to keep it non-lethal. But that doesn’t make killing the first resort. Realistically, Maxima could probably give a lawful order to respond with lethal force. She doesn’t have to, though, and she’s choosing not to.
There are a number of reasons that could be. The most obvious is intel. At the very least, it’s probably easier to question a living captive than to use necromancy on a dead body. And there’s definitely some intel to be gathered, because this many bad guys showing up so quickly after the press conference, with this much organization (they seem like a mess, but as any gamer can tell you, just getting 40 people to show up at the same place at the same time requires some serious marshaling) is a concern.
Beyond that… it’s entirely possible that Maxima doesn’t see a threat worth responding to with lethal force. Keep in mind, lethal force isn’t something you use because the bad guy deserves to die. It’s something you use because it’s the best option for containing the threat that the bad guy presents. The trash mobs that the team has faced so far haven’t been much of a threat—stopping them hasn’t required lethal force.
Everyone has touched on good points, but there’s another reason: PR. You win the public, you win the day. Remember, the world is watching right now, they want to know they can trust Archon. The last thing our heroes want is in the event of a super villain attack for the public to say that they can’t call Archon because there would be too many casualties.
Maxima may not care what Joe Sixpack thinks of her, but she does care what Joe thinks of the rest of the team.
Max specifically stated nonlethal if possible.
All the reason there’s non-lethal “weapons” exist in modern life is because you can successfully contain about any present individual at a [relatively] low cost in power and materials.
Now, please tell me, how can you contain, let’s say, Concretia? She can phase out of material existence, presumably pass through walls (at least stone walls won’t hold her for sure), etc. etc.
What options do you have to restrict her, or any other would-be-villain with a power enough to escape about any convenient containment?
I only see two options. Either you have an accessible and sufficiently low-cost way to prevent ANY use of ANY super power, or… well, kill the opponent. Dead dogs don’t bite.
And down that path lies a repressive police state enforced by their super army. I would not want to live in that world.
There are numerous ways that Concretia could be taken down, without killing her. If I list enough of them, I will probably end up doing a spoiler, so will avoid that. However our heroines are smart enough to find them.
It will not be easy though, because, as you indicate, she has a very strong power. But, if there were no challenge, then the story would not be interesting. Formidable heroes need formidable foes.
Use of lethal force should always be the option of last resort, not first. The only time you go straight for the lethal option is if there is no time to try alternatives. You are forced into the last resort option, due to there being no alternatives available.
Well, if you can figure out how to actually kill some kind of intangible energy being, you can probably also figure out how to contain it.
Magic, presumably. Magically warded cells seem like the standard response to phasing fellows. Otherwise electrified walls or something, but that’s probably less reliable.
I am certain that at least one of the magic-using members of ARC would have a spell or something that specifically wards or otherwise contains ghosts, spirits and astral projections.
Inside a (thin walled) glass box suspended (by a buttered rope) in a (large) cave filled with neurotoxin.
She can’t turn into anything (not enough material)
She can’t break the box (would die)
She can’t stay phased long enough to get anywhere where these conditions would change
Cost analysis
Materials
glass- small enough to be irrelevant
large hole- really, you think there aren’t plenty spare?
neurotoxin- it doesn’t take much to get the job done
rope- still not much
butter- probably not even needed
cost: LOW (compared to the jail you expect to build to contain supervillains)
How about sticking her on an island someplace that is ALL sand, with only timber buildings (not even concrete pilings).
Yes, her astral form would be able to find rock if it goes deep enough. But we don’t know if it can do that, or how long she can maintioan the astral form, or what limits there might be for Concretia to maintain her form (might be indefinite, might not be, might be all sorts of limits and provisos involved).
I think you posted that in response to the wrong comment? Presumably there is some other thread making suggestions for inescapable death-traps, elsewhere? But it would fit there very well. Permanent solitary confinement, with no means of socialising. No entertainment or means of exercising. Guaranteed gradual death by starvation, if not rapid death by asphyxiation.
But plenty of mental anguish up until then, given watching the glass for any sign of cracking or leakage. Knowing that the slightest imperfection will permit fatal neurotic to enter. Plus cramping and nervous tension from keeping perfectly still, to avoid cracking the thin glass, by any movement.
She would probably only live an hour or two like that, but it does seem rather a cruel and unusual means of execution.
But, that harsh reality check aside, your thinking is good. Once it has a bit of refining to make the confinement humane. Which would be easy enough to extrapolate from your basic design. In theory, anyhow, if not in practice.
Sorry, a Skype call came in, whilst typing my comment above, and I had to either post it or loose it, in order to do some other things that cropped up. So it was much less polished than it should have been. And doubtless came across as being very harsh. Whereas I had been intending to make it clear that the critique was intended in a casual manner.
The actual idea was clever, and clearly only intended as a bare bones, proof of principle type argument. And worked very well if read on that basis. It was just my intent to, tongue in cheek, apply the same level of critique to it, as we normally do to Dave’s work. Even if I failed to inject the humorous tone that I had in the back of my mind. Sorry about that. I would not want to put anybody off making clever suggestions, for fear they would get unfairly harsh critique.
A bare bones concept it was.
My reply was to the question “Now, please tell me, how can you contain, let’s say, Concretia?”
In addition to being a police force, our heroes still don’t know why they are being attacked, or by whom.
While the first two roid boys seemed pretty villian-y, Anima and Heavenly Blade don’t see all that bad. They could have been manipulated into the fight…for all we know, this is another Arianna engineered publicity stunt.
It would not be at all surprised if Maxima saw this as a recruiting opportunity. Her first encounter with Heatwave, Achilles, and Mr. Amorphous might have gone the same way.
What happened to the ARC letters that were on school girl Harem’s shirt?
For a start, it looks like Abbey changed her clothes when she was *vorp*ing on her supply run, plus, wasn’t it the female Space Marine who had that shirt on? Fairly sure all 5 Daphnes were dressed nicely (well, relatively for a nice dinner out)
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1204
this is comic #188 if that link doesn’t work
Oh right, forgot about that
EASTER EGG TIME!!! :D
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1195
Not sure why it linked to the next comic up,but here is the correct one.I just hope this one works now.
Yup, you are right. In fact it is the same top in the issue you accidentally linked too.
Is breaking her own fingers part of her power?
Without Anima’s presence gravity took over. The shell is full of cracks and is probably falling apart bit by bit off panel.
Being punched out of the window and into a bunch of friendly-fire probably did not do her any good either.
Amina strikes me as a misnomer as she is just creating a shell from the material, based on the fracture from the bullet. I kind of like Bodycast…
If she has a real body elsewhere, does this make her a Stand User?
You are seeing her real body, but phased.
berret m82 50. cal anti material rifle? really? i was hoping you would go one up and a bit more original at 20mm anzio, seeing as superpowers make bullets mostly just annoying lol.
I’m sure Peggy has one in her locker. She’s just saving it for the 1 mile shots.
Harem might not be able to ‘port that much weight…
The Barrett seems to be Harem’s load limit when she is using all 5 bodies. Maybe if she shifted to one body it might be movable.
Well, if he knows anything about her maybe her team mate wasn’t being a big evil meanie dismissing a pawn when he swatted her down. He knew it wouldn’t hurt her true form and may even have thought he was helping by keeping her near the center of the action.
A testament to the force involved in that shot is shown in how far those neck cracks extend.
I guess it’s just as well that the villains weren’t issued pip-boys like Archon’s.
Heavenly Sword: Anima, status report.
Anima [just before Peggy’s shot]: I temporarily lost tangibility, but have regained it and should be rejoining the fighti… [vippp, crack]….
Heavenly Sword: Anima, please repeat. You seem to be breaking up.
Hah hah.
Yeah, I broke up laughing too
:D
Them’s the breaks.
That’s how the cookie crumbles.
Two questions.
One how is Concretia pointer finger tip so fare away when it’s breaking off? It should be right next to the tip of her broken thumb.
And two, what about the dangers of ricochets? We have two people fighting practically right there and Peggys shooting rounds off on a rather hard bodied individual. Both rock and asphalt are rather hard substances. IT isn’t too hard to imagine a bullet hitting Concretia but then bouncing off and hitting Math.
Peggy is probably good enough to line shots up as to minimize the chance of ricochet and unwanted shrapnel damage.
2) You’re assuming that Concretia is still close to Math and Jabbs and that she’s shooting at such an angle that a ricochet could hit them.
Concretia got defenestrated by Math so now she’s outside in the parking lot.
The sniper rifle Peggy is using is sometimes used as an anti-materiel rifle. The rounds can punch through cement blocks and engines. Against a concrete shell there shouldn’t be a problem.
With a .50 caliber bullet, There isn’t going to be a ricochet. It went through Anima’s head without much effort and since Peggy is aiming down, is probably buried deep in the blacktop not too far away.
It’s possible the phased finger kinda pushed the index/pointer finger further, or maybe it broke off before the thumb
Concretia/Anima is just lucky she’s a chick. I cringe when I think about what peggy might have done to a male super with that power.
I suppose Peggy could have aimed it where the two orbs meet.
Nah, Sydney’s already been there & done that…
I don’t think anyone has asked the most important question yet.. does Math still get to count Concretia in his score seeing as she just went and got back up (very temporarily)?
Sure it counts, as some one said she essentially just respawned.
That depends on who’s doing the counting, Math or Sydney.
I think Math wouldn’t because she’s wasn’t completely out therefore he didn’t “win” as a martial artist
Agreed. If an opponent is knocked down to the floor the match is not won. The referee will just start counting. As soon as the opponent stands up again, the fight is back on.
If Halo can find a way to take Concretia out of the fight completely then she can draw 3-3.
Math did count Cree’s fall
She did seem to be out cold at the time. But she has managed to get up before being counted out. I think he will do the decent thing, come the end-of-match round-up.
It depends, what does decapitating a clone of your opponent count as?
Wait… Peggy isn’t on a grassy knoll, I hope.
So, we see that Concretia can pick up paint. Perhaps she can animate other “new age” things like metals, but she simply prefers rock? Making a body with an octagonal structural steel structure would combine sturdiness with speed. Then again, while that would be inventive and interesting, it would be a pain in the ass to draw… Can’t wait to see more of her story.
I had a couple of thoughts.
1.) If Dabbler had a kid she’d probably have Sydney babysit occasionally. Think about that.
2.) Concretia could could use her talent to make sculptures and sell them. Extra charges for requests like period costumes.
1) Dabbler could have the kid with Sydney. Think about it. *
2) You are hereby offered a position at ARC-dawn, the super-villain rehabilitation organisation.
* Dabbler is part succubus, who could according to some legends become an incubus**. Likewise aliens might be hermaphrodite. And high technology can easily achieve this. Even our own technology is at the level where men can be omitted from the reproductive process completely. And Dabbler’s DNA or magic is clearly sufficiently adaptable that species differences are not a problem.
** “…some are occasionally begotten from demons, it is not from the seed of such demons, nor from their assumed bodies, but from the seed of men, taken for the purpose; as when the demon assumes first the form of a woman, and afterwards of a man” – Thomas Aquinas.
Yes I am aware of the legends around Succubus/Incubus but Sydney knows what she is and is firm on the “not a lesbian” thing also Dabbler has shown no interest in her sexually.
Yea, it was purely a hypothetical. They come across as naughty schoolgirls or sisters when with each other. As you rightly say.
Besides which, could you imagine Dabbler both settling down and changing her name to Xuriel Shahara Schoville?
If Sydney was a male perhaps. I have a feeling Dabbler is more attracted to an intellect when it comes to actual emotions. All the naughtiness is about sex which I’d imagine is not tried to emotions in succubi, more like eating. Sex is chocolate.
If Dabbles is attracted to intelect, then gender would not play as big of a role
I wonder if Syd could see Concretia`s ghost and maybe even shoot it with the PPO. Combining Peggy and Syd would be hilarious.
Dave has confirmed that anybody can see the ghost-form. I doubt the PPO could harm Concretia in that state. But Halo certainly could use it to take out any more bodies that get formed. But Peggy seems to have her covered for now.
I do like the vibe between Peggy and Sydney. I think they will make good friends, despite their very different backgrounds. Peggy turns a blind eye to Sydney’s wackiness and takes it all in her stride.
And Sydney respects Peggy enough to feel really bad about the leg comments.
(Even though Peggy is on the List).
Even the Orbs are on the List. But she still loves them. And I could not see them being parted.
Noticed how Peggy smiles. She truly loves her job; and to be fair, wouldn`t you?
She is happy that she found a super she can use the Barret on without killing them :D
That looks like a Barreta .50-Cal semi-automatic rifle (forgive my poor spelling). I am not complaining about the Caliber, I would bring the big guns into a super fight too.
However, I take issue with how little damage was done to Concretia’s head. That size of round at 150 meters would, quite literally, blow the concrete into dozens of small bits. The damage might be correct if it were a regular concrete slab and not a head shaped orb.
I am a bit of a gun nut. I do really appreciate the weapon choice. I might have gone with the bolt-action version, as they are more accurate. BUT, they are at relatively close range, so perhaps speed of reloading is more important in this case.
In this case Peggy really has a possibility of having to face an opponent who might shrug off a single .50cal shot. A rifle that can deliver a quick burst is just necessary.
Never forget that the body is formed by use of a super-power. Normal asphalt does not get up and walk around. The very power, that is forming it into the shape of a head, would be acting, to some degree or other, to keep it that way.
I think Yorp’s point is especially valid. A possibility I thought of is that Peggy might be using some special bullets – maybe something that dials up penetration at the cost of other effects.
A .50 cal has a buttload of penetration anyhow, but it makes sense that ARC would have some specialized stuff, just in case. For all we know, they might even have bullets with silver and/or wooden tips – just in case they have to deal with ‘traditional’ werewolves or vampires.
I think silver of bullets would lose power and ballistics fast (about as good as lead musket balls, ballistics is why we put a copper casing on modern rounds). So silver is possible, but any armor would make them ineffective (copper jacket also allows better penetration too).
I am now trying to imagine a wood tipped round. At first I thought ‘no, because of the high speeds of the round, would cause the light wood tip but heavy back to spin. That would not guarantee the wood tip to hit the heart. Also, a round made solely out of wood would not have any penetration power (even with a high-powered air gun, because fire and wood dont mix)’. But, if you slow the round down enough and find a way to pour lead into a wooden bullet. Then it Might just be plausible.
AND I just realized I am over-thinking a webcomic again. I just saw ‘Xmen: Days of Future Past’ and I am still wondering if Wolfi now has bone or adimatium claws.
Putting lead into a wooden case is easy, wood doesn’t burn without air, so use an argon environment like welders sometimes do.
Pour the lead into or better, around a subcaliber wooden bullet and the lead itself will block the air from reaching the burnt part. It will char while the lead cools but that only takes a few seconds to get below ignition temperatures.
Don’t go by popularised fiction. Wooden stakes will rot within a few years, at most, and you will just have one really pissed off vampire on your hands. Go by actual historical and archaeologically confirmed precedent. Real vampire burials* used iron stakes through the heart. And typically had the head decapitated too. Hundreds of such burials have been discovered in my corner of Europe.** Burials with wooden stakes, remaining, have never been found.
Empty graves have been found, of course, but may simply have never been filled, or could have been normal exhumations. Or vampires rising from the grave, once a wooden stake had rotted away.. Archaeological examinations have not attempted to prove, or disprove, the latter. But, no coffin has been found with just an iron stake, but no body. So it must be effective. ;-)
* As in corpses believed to belong to vampires, at the time of burial. As opposed to me declaring a new genus of blood sucking hominid.
** I have been told repeatedly by locals, that the last vampire hunter in Bulgaria, retired to my village. Plus we have a we have a species of blood-sucking weasel called (with my best guess at spelling it) a Velka. Not that I have seen any English literature mentioning them.
But have seen dead ones. And I had a school friend who kept a variety of weasels and stoats, so can tell the difference. There are also the blood-sucked corpses of the poultry, and other small prey, they leave behind. Which are distinctive from fox kills, so are well known to local poultry keepers. Being considered far greater threats, as they can get through even secure fox-proof defences.
Technically, Wolvie has always had bone claws :P
“One type she might use against really well armoured opponents is the multi-purpose Raufoss round. I am not sure if the bullpup version could take it, mind you. But I feel confident that even if Peggy can’t modify it, personally, she knows somebody who can.
“Something for everyone, a comedy tonight.” Under current ROE, Peggy has to keep those on standby.
I do not consider that Concretia’s hollow asphalt head was really well armoured. The thread has already established that the conventional rounds were more than capable of doing the damage depicted. I was merely running with the suggestions for alternative bullets she may have available.
But, impressive though it looks, that round is not suitable against heavily armoured targets (like tanks, as opposed to body armour).
Peggy would need to find a Goldilocks opponent. Not too tough that the bullet would be ineffective, but not so weak that a conventional round would be better. And definitely not so weak that they would be at risk of death, from any shot. So, even if she has them, we may not see those bullets being used in this battle.
Ohhhhhh… Barret M50. BOOM.
Let’s see…Harem humped the Barret, now Peggy & her Barret just humped Concretia. Insert funny joke about lead poisoning here…Maybe “steel jacketed lead” poisoning.
Strangely enough, I notice that Concretia’s “Round Two” was decisively ended by the Peggy’s first round…
Just had a crazy idea:
Concreatia’s power source is her underwear / sports wear!
Because:
We can see that the surface of her new body shows the structure of concrete / asphalt, even while being somewhat colored (teeth, hair, lips) and even assimilated the stripe from the street – alas, her bustier(?) seems to have tissue structure and it’s on top of the stripe.
So what if: When she creates a body, the underwear / sports wear ist not recreated the same way, instead it phases into existense on top of the body – unlike her real body. Therefore it might be the “brigde” between her phased form and her concrete form… Hm… there might be flaw in that theory…
So if Anima (Concretia) wants to counter being sniped, she should phase into the restaurant’s kitchen and animate a body made of food. A sufficiently soft mass would react very little to a large bullet, which would leave only a bullet-sized channel and impart almost no energy to the target. I don’t know how she’d be an effective combatant with a body soft enough to ignore gunfire, maybe try to smother people?
I think I see a weakness in such a stratagem.
We have now come around full circle. There can be only one outcome. food fight!/a> *
* SPOILER ALERT! Don’t click if you have not watched Bugsy Malone. Buy it, watch it, then click. It is a movie that has withstood the test of time.
It was also an early Scott Baio and Jodie Foster movie (love her line towards the end :D)
Hmmm, it’s been a very very long time since seen that movie, but was that Ardagio really the original music used?
Well remembered, it was not. In fact that part was unaccompanied. But I felt it worked extremely well, so went with that. Especially as the clip was just the food fight. But the extended final scene clip is worth linking too, as it includes the final set piece song, which comes in just after the previous clip ends.
Remembered that music from “Platoon”
Sand/dirt is soft and plentiful, and lacks the weakness pointed out by Deof Movestofca