Grrl Power #207 – I’ll take six of these, twelve of these…
The site has been a little spotty for the last few days, at least for me. I apologize if it’s sucked for anyone else, but I think I have it sorted out. If nothing else the issues have prompted me to fully update WordPress and all my plugins. I usually fear doing that because if something does screw up, that means I get to spend hours troubleshooting the site instead of drawing.
So, ARCHON security. How does the armory know someone teleported in there? Well the Grrlverse isn’t one of those mature comic universes where the X-men have Shi’ar technology that makes solid holographic danger rooms or Reed Richards has invented Unstable Molecule spandex substitute. It’s almost exactly our own technology. I say almost because magic does exist in this universe and Arc-LIGHT and Arc-DARK have limited access to it. But the armory just uses plain ol’ tech. Sensors monitor air pressure for teleporters (assuming the teleporter isn’t exchanging the exact volume of air when they appear) but there are also motion sensors, pressure plates on the floor, heat and noise sensors, the works basically. Also, crazy as it may sound, there are low tech and very thick windows that can be used to observe everything from the security booth. Granted if someone could teleport into the room silently and phased so they wouldn’t displace any air, and also fly and be thermally transparent… well, there’s only so much you can do to protect your gear. Of course as soon as they teleported out with something, it would leave a vacuum.
And don’t worry, those guns don’t start throwing 6,000 rounds per minute into ammo crates the instant someone forgets the passcode. They’re armed with tazers and knockout gas and probably other non-explodey options before the guns start. Actually live fire is probably a last resort that needs to be authorized by a human from the security booth. After I drew the room I realized I designed the whole armory idiotically. I’d think ideally anything remotely volatile is kept in separate areas with lots of thick layers between them. Again, my geek cred does me a disservice, as everything I know about armories I learned from movies and shows like Chuck. You know, shelves of equipment and a big peg board on the back wall with enough guns on it to give Rambo a 4 hour erection.
Anyone think the QM looks rather a lot like Clint Eastwood? That wasn’t intentional on my part (cough). I toyed with the idea of calling him Gant, after the first character I remember seeing Eastwood play, but decided against it.
Edit: I’ve changed Harem from saying “Yes Sir, sorry Sir!” to “Yes Sergeant! Sorry Sergeant!” if you want to CTRL+F5 the page (possibly CTRL+R depending on your browser.) The point of that exchange was to show that Vauxhall was annoyed at Maxima for running such a loose ship, not to show Harem being flippant. Apparently even saluting a non-com is wrong too, but that would take more work to change. Hollywood has done me wrong. The upside is that I can now predict there may be a funny scene with Sydney being as confused about all this as I was.
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Since it wasn’t mentioned yet: My dictionary says that it should be “Blitzkrieg” instead of “Blitzkreig”. I spotted that on first sight because I’m German and “Blitzkrieg” is a German word and loan-word from German. Then I checked because I have seen “Blitzkreig” here and there and suspected it to be an alternate spelling, but it rather seems to be a common typo. (In German, “Blitzkrieg” is spoken like “blittskreeg” (correct) while “Blitzkreig” would be spoken like “blittskr-I-g”, imagining that makes my skin crawl >_<)
And I feel ashamed, as I wasn't hoping for an update on a holiday and checked a day later (today), only to find that a new page was there since monday.
Not everyone gets the day off or even follows that religion (regardless of some folks assertions) in America. Besides it was on a Sunday and Monday means back to work.
If you think that’s bad, after my Navy boot camp I was sent to my A School in Norfolk, VA. With the miltary perchant for excessive use of acronyms, the name of the place was FLEASWTRACENLANT. When I gave my family the mailing address, my mom actually had the gall to ask me to *pronounce* it…which I did.
How DO you pronounce “FLEASWTRACENLANT”? I acknowledge that it may operate on the same rules as Welsh or Gaelic, and thus be pronounced in a way that no user of the English alphabet or sane person would ever fathom.
I’ll answer your question with a question: How do you expect me to *verbalize* that in written text, when it was hard enough to verbalize it in the first place?
:P
If you could figure out how to say it, you can figure out how to do it in writing. :-P
I would imagine the trick lies in saying what you think is right with enough confidence that it is right.
Yep, that’s exactly how I did it about 28 years ago. As Natalie pointed out just below your comment, the ASW part was the hardest…Kudos to you for figuring out the general approach to verbalizing it & kudos to Natalie for actually decoding what the whole acronym actually *means* in the first place.
With that info, at least you have some rough idea what my rating was in the Navy so long ago…But also understand that, if you dig into it much further, you’ll run into a stop where security classifications start.
And no…I won’t respond well to any questions about my job back then, even though what I knew then is more than 25 years old.
I used to fix what you worked with, but I did it on S-3A Viking aircraft.
FLEASWTRACENTLANT – I am not totally sure of the sound of the ASW but am quite sure of the rest. I think the ASW would be “az-wuh” with az either long a as in late or short a as in at (I am guessing at), giving this pronunciation: Flee – az – wuh – tray – cent – lant. FLEet AntiSubmarine Warfare TRAining CENTer atLANTic. There are a lot of training centers in all US military branches all pronounced Traycent, and a lot of Atlantics and Fleet within the navy all pronounced lant with the a sound as in can’t (PAC is for Pacific) and flea.
Would have gone with “Fleece-wuh”
“Fleece-wuh?-traceing-lint” (the second last ‘t’ is silent, and yes, some people do pronounce the last ‘a’ as an ‘i’, for example ‘Nu Zilind’ instead of ‘New Zealand’, and that is how native english speakers call it :()
It’s spelled FLEASWTRACENLANT, but it’s pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove…
Easter Mon day is just a convenience for people whose union contracts say that they get a day off in lieu of any holiday that would not have worked anyway.
Regardless of how it’s spelt, have always personally pronounced it “Blitzkreeg” (long ‘e’ sound), the other way looks like it would be pronounced “Blitzcraig”, with an ‘a’ sound, similat to the mans name ‘Craig’)
I’ve always preferred “Blitzkrieger” over “Blitzkrieg” when it is a character’s name. (For those, like myself, who don’t know any German “Lightning Warrior” versus “Lightning War”.)
Not quite sure how long the What I’m Reading link has been up there, but how are you liking the Honor Harrington series? Also, serious Goose is back! And he is very serious.
I like it! It’s definitely a different pace from a lot of other books I’ve read. If you had described the space navy battles as lasting multiple chapters because of the distances in space and the book takes a hard sci-fi approach to them, I’m not sure I’d be super interested in picking them up, but now that I’m a few books in, I really like them. It also makes me think how silly Star Trek space battles are in comparison, where every battle usually takes place within… let’s see, if the Enterprise D is 700 meters long… 10 KM of each other, where as in the Harringtonverse, if a missile gets within 10,000 KM of your ship then you’ve done something wrong.
I’m trying to think of how this series could be filmed if they made a movie or a miniseries of it, and I don’t think it could be done. Technically, yes it could be ,but there’d be too many people saying that the space battles have to take place where you can actually see both ships on screen at once. But the best you’d be able to do if you stuck to the book is a really detailed tactical display cut with missiles and ships flying through space and the occasional external shot as a ship got raked with X-Ray lasers.
Actually, the japanese did that in their older Animes.
Gunbuster, for example had Battles like this.
They fired their Laser Cannons at a distance of over 300.000 Km, and needed to wait nearly 2.5 seconds for visual confirmation to see if they did any damage (through distant explosions). And actually seeing the enemy? Forget it.
Realistic? Maybe. Boring? Definitely.
Depends on how many ship killers the Salamander shot at the enemy when it comes to boring. Pod carriers and Ghostrider(the long ranger real time FTL communication system and targeting system) for the win. Yup Really boring battles not the way Weber writes them. Also to my understand the Xray laser warheads don’t go off until they are within 10k of the target and that is considered long range for them most tend to go off within a few hundred meters of a ship for maximum damage. Sadly the wiki doesn’t go into the actual range of the laser warhead but Weber tends to write them as if they are a close in weapon system which is why EW is so important for them. In this case closer really is better to punch through shield walls.
Well, I can’t say how well thought out that really is versus an accident, but I think Star Trek’s battles could mostly work as realistic because of the difference in travel technology. Harrington’s universe has the travel be linear except at the edges of the systems and wormholes, whereas in Trek, each ship has a warp engine and can instantly move in space (also, most other major powers have cloaking). That would cause the long standoff missile battles of Harrington to be pointless for them, so their war tech is more knife fight oriented than artillery. How realistic that is obviously up for debate, but if we can ignore that, I think the differences in battle technologies and how they work out make some level of sense.
That being said, Harrington’s universe certainly shows that Trek’s creators, starting so early in our computer tech boom, stuck the current creators in quite a hole as far as technology jumps that would’ve been obvious if the show had been created from scratch in the last decade. While warp drives, shields, transporters and replicators easily fit (and holodeck magic), their warfighting technology is rather unrealistically limited, consisting of mostly straight forward weaponry without the benefit of real computer assistance (how do they ever miss with phasers from the distances they fight at w/ computers that powerful for instance) or transporter (just beam a bomb into their engine or life support once shields are down, why shoot a projectile that has to maneuver to hit the target, if the torpedoes even do, aside from the one movie one).
watch more tv, less JJ movies :)
photon torpedoes are guided weapons, hence the term ‘weapons locked on target’.. almost all the battles of the shows were fought at warp, and at very long range.
in the later movies, they had the ships close to each other for dramatic reasons, but they always lampshaded a reason; for example, the final battle of II occurred in a nebula, where long range sensors would not function..; which was Kirk’s plan, as the reliant still had working shields, warp, and sensors systems.
Khan could have killed Kirk when they were fleeing to the nebula at any time; but he wanted it more personal.. Idiot.
The Honor Harrington books are mainly a re-cast and re-genre of the Horatio Hornblower books beloved of a previous generation. With lots of very deliberate shout-outs and homages, if you’ve read both series. The battles are multi-chapter affairs, I think, because David Weber really liked the multi-chapter pacing of the Hornblower books’ (sail-powered navy) naval battles and arranged the honorverse’s tech so space battles worked on something like the same pace.
I wouldn’t see a problem adapting it to movies; you can have external shots of one ship at a time, or shots inside the bridge of one vessel showing a big pretty graphic of the other vessel on a tactical display. That’s a display people are going to put up on their bridge during a fight, even if the other vessel is 3 AU away and the damage to it is known only statistically. If you think you really need an exterior shot of both ships on the screen at the exact same time, you can use the old split-screen device.
The Forever War – Joe Haldeman – 1974.
Is that the one, where, because of being placed in stasis to get to the combat, the protaganist was still the same age when he got back but everyone/thing had aged a hundred years or so? Also, one time he went home, homosexuallity was the norm, and hetero’s were viewed as abominations (pretty much the reverse of how things are now)
If so, read the graphic novel adaptation about 20 years ago from the local library
Yes, this one. Actually they accumulate milleniums of time displacement.
I did not read the graphic version but the novel goes deep into several “futuristic” topics both technological and social. In 1970 homosexuality acceptance was a great issue, to forecast that it will be the future “normal” was revolutionary, and it is not the only controversial thing in the novel.
That was the first novel I read where the space battles (a very few actually) were realistically depicted, dealing with projectils and ships at relativistic speeds, battlefields mesured in dozens of AU and so, among others “hard sci-fi” things.
The author also include the time displacement effect over the arms race, where a state-of-the-art battleship travels at relativistic speed only to end facing an enemy that now have arms couple decades ahead (the same idea was very lightly included later in “Ender’s game”).
If you like Honor Harrington, then you will probably like the Black Jack Geary books by Jack Campbell.
star trek only looks like that in the newer movies; I blame JJ.
the tv shows / better movies are in many ways even more accurate than the Harrington books; for a good example, check out the opening battle of STTMP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbG3N51MEjM
3 battlecruisers, all going FTL, tracking and locking onto an object more than 82 AU away, and firing on it with ftl self guided anti matter warheads (aka, Photon Torpedoes)
the only reason you can see V’ger at all at that distance is how damn big it is.
another good example is the classic episode ‘ Balance of Terror’..
at no time did either ship get within a few light minutes of each other. :)
…
if you like HH, have you ever tire lois McMaster bujold’s Miles Vorkosigan series? It started the space military genre :)
Definitely like the HH series (I am a Trejjer as well).
Though I do have to say that there has been a very strong tendency towards inflation in the Honorverse. Used to be that a few hundred missile salvo lobbed at one’s fleet was kind of a scary thing. Now they are up to routine salvos in the high thousands, and those salvos can do everything except your taxes whilst in flight.
I GET that it is all about new technology and so forth. But newtech doesn’t necessarily mean launching more hardware at the enemy. Sometimes, it means less.
@##$^& typos. That’s TREKKER, btw.
He he. I was looking at it and assuming that it must be some jargon contraction of ‘Star Trek the Next Generation’, going via ‘Trekjenner’.
If you’re fond of the Honourverse, may I suggest Peter F. Hamilton’s ‘Reality Dysfunction’?
While the idea that the trilogy is based on is neat, the trilogy itself ends up a being a disappointment. Hamilton wrote himself into a corner and had to resort to a Deus ex Machina in the last book to resolve it.
At least ,if Dave ever has to do that, he has already introduced the character in setting. ;-)
Actually, apparently there is a company doing a mobile game, comic series, and movie for Honor Harrington. The movies will start with Honor of the Queen, the comics will cover the events of On Basilisk Station, and the mobile game will feature starship combat. It looks like they’re going to be revisualizing a lot of things to make it easier to create visual media with. Website linky thing.
Piers Anthony’s “Bio Of A Space Tyrant” has an interesting depiction of space combat: no viewscreens of any kind, and the ‘ships’ are more like terrestrial submarines (both in shape and functionality, basically, a flying cigar, gravity is provided by central-fugal spin)
Well, i wondered what Duke Nukem was doing in his spare time.
Guess now i know.
Wow, i can only imagine the relationship Max and Duke would have.
There would actually only be two possibilities, they would either be best friends, or worst enemies.
I feel it is necessary to mention to the members of ARC-SWAT that it is currently nighttime. We have Maxima, Goose, Mr A. and Achilles all wearing sunglasses during this fight. Either the specs have some sort of heads-up display, or these guys really like looking cool while bringing on the hurt.
And what’s with saying that the QM looks like Clint Eastwood? He looks nothing like Michael J. Fox.
(P.S. in BTTF III the wall of the drive-in has an inside joke displaying movie posters of ‘Revenge of the Creature’ and ‘Tarantula’, the first film roles for one Mr. Eastwood.)
Before seeing Achilles wearing them I figured they were those yellow tinted safety glasses that they sometimes wear at firing ranges or instead of full face shields.
Achilles didn’t wear sunglasses out in the desert even so I’m guessing some sort of google glass thing.
Whatever they do, they are on the list of things that Harem is checking out of the armory under the name “Tac-Glasses”
Personally never remove sunglasses, even at night (also refuse to remove hat, consequently no longer allowed inside a couple banks, fortunately, not the one do business with, was also asked to leave Glouster {spelling?} and Cologne Cathedrals :P)
Gloucester
It is 5:03 am at the moment and pitch black outside. I have sunglasses and hat on. But bad Guesticus, it is a matter of politeness to comply with social conventions, especially in places of worship. No hats in churches and no footwear in mosques.
Although I must admit that I would probably forget I even have mine on, especially in everyday places like banks, but would remove it if it were pointed out to me. Outside of places of worship though, I can see merit in making a stand on the issue though. It is rather an arbitrary custom, after all. I am guessing stemming from a time when hats grew to silly size and posed a serious inconvenience indoors. Hence it being considered rude.
Likewise it is what I imagine is the root of it being considered to be unlucky to open an umbrella indoors. No, it is not unlucky, it is just stupid. Things will get knocked over.
Exactely, that’s why went outside: totally respect their customs and rules
Did not know about the hat thing until a priest came up to me and asked me to remove it, hadn’t been in a church since eldest sister got married, and that was around ’86 or 87, didn’t start wearing a hat until The Undertaker joined WWF (have light sensitive eyes, and the combination of the glasses and hat helps)
As for the banks, mum is the one who does business with them, when she went to the counter, would just sit at one of the desks and wait (one bank wouldn’t even open the door)
Gotcha.
For years I fancied wearing a hat, and kept my eye open for styles that might catch my eye. Without seeing any that I considered to be acceptable. And this was working in London, so I had access to a wide range of shops.
Yet I have stumbled across a number, in a small shop inside a bus station in Bulgaria, that really appeal. Looking at the selection I have, I think it is because they are toned down versions of other, familiar styles. So, for instance, one is like a 20’s gangster hat, but without the high contrast band or other classic features.
Another is similar to a cowboy hat, but with a less pronounced rim, to the kinds you would normally see in westerns. Likewise a third that gives a hint of the furry hats that you see Russians wearing. Including the fold-down flaps to go over the ears, but without actually being furry, or bulky in any way. A kind of intermediate between Siberian hats and the American baseball caps.
Quite a common style out here, and particularly funny that most are made in China. East meets West in Far East.
Currently using a felt cowboy hat (first one was leather, but the brim ‘warped’, and not ina good way, and never fully fit), had a custom hatband made using the comic icon for Ghost Rider (the flaming skull one, from the mid-90’s) and metal skulls
Have never managed to figure out how to keep the dang thing to stay in place, so during windy days have to walk around holding it on :(
I think the bank thing has to do with identification and possible facial recognition. Hat/dark glasses can at least give the impression of attempting to conceal your identity, which doesn’t go over well in a bank. For similar reasons, the gas stations round here often have signs prohibiting having hoods up at night.
When something’s that widespread, and applying to places where large quantities of cash are handled (or often targeted for robbery), it’s probably not just social conventions at play. They want your business. It’s how they make money.
Always pushed the hat back so the face was fully visible, and always looked directly at the visible cameras
I remember a movie where a high executive instructs his bodyguards to remove their hats and grumbles at them for being rough and uneducated before going into a… synagogue :)
Harem proves her badassitude, nice work to assist Duke Nukem there and the others!
I shouldn’t be surprised she’s good at teamwork.
…Which isn’t very surprising because Harem IS a team, just by herself.
An opening speech by Col Jackson to an assembly of various soldiers:
Welcome to the Green Beret – Night Stalker – Navy SEAL – Archon joint service war games. You, the Green Berets, Night Stalkers and Navy SEALS will be trying to capture Archon’s general, seen in this picture, Brigadier General Faulk, while at the same time, not leaving our general, my CO, Major General Philips, vulnerable to capture.
The Green Berets, Night Stalkers and SEALs are fielding a battalion each. Archon is fielding, probably because of their limited staffing levels, one company (really only one platoon, but they don’t know that). Our field commander is me, Colonel Paul Jackson. Archon’s field commander is the woman pictured here, Lt. Col. Leander. She is as tall as me, as heavy as me and can kick my butt, 16 ways to Sunday, even after me being a Green Beret for most of my career. Never under-estimate her or you will be in for a very rude awakening, possibly in the hospital a few days later, if she is playing nice. Our intelligence says they are fielding 4 platoons (usually groups this small are called patrols, if that): Team O’Seany, Team Harem, Team Closer, and Team Blaster. They also have an intelligence group. We do not know what the capabilities of each team is at this time nor their personnel, but your commanding officers have briefs on each of the known members of Archon.
A few kilometres away, Maxima is briefing her people.
Okay, I am breaking you up into 5 teams: Our intelligence team is headed by Zephan with Gwen and Leon. You are also responsible for counter-intelligence as well. Next is Team Ooh, Shiny, commanded by Major Hiro with Halo and Dabbler. Team Harem is our largest team; it consists of, well, Harem. Team Blaster is commanded by Lieutenant Kessler with Heatwave, Jiggawatt. Team Close- Up is commanded by Lieutenant Cassidy: Math, Achilles, Mr. Amorphous, and Stalwart.
Hiro: [ quietly ] Me and my big mouth; I said I wanted a more challenging command. This is going to be more like Team Cat Herding.
Heh heh, was wondering who/what “Team O’Seany” was going to be :D
Team Ooh, Shiny – that made me laugh. SO SO good.
I just realised something.
I´m not certain, but “Strawberry Blonde” essentially means Readhead, right?
If so, isn´t the Harem that goes to “unteleport” herself the original?
How does that work?
As has been discussed quite alot already, there is no ‘original’ harem
They are all identical, and they can all unteleport, and they can all be the last one out while the rest unteleports
Not even Daphne herselves are sure who is the ‘original’, Berry is simply the one that has had the least ‘modifications’ done
Just a bit of feedback, DaveB, regarding site performance. I had noticed that it was getting slower pre the competition, and getting worse during it, as I mentioned at the time. It remained bad, probably due to the increased traffic creating a load. In fact getting to the point where I would have to leave the site loading and go off to do something else. Often failing to load completely.
I have left it a bit, from your comment that you patched the programs, to see if I likewise experienced an improvement. Which I did. It eased off from borderline unusable, to merely very slow. But I do still get occasional error messages as a result of the delays, such as this:
“Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator and inform them of the time the error occurred, and the actions you performed just before this error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log.”
That one occurred just a couple of minutes ago. Followed by a “duplicate posting” type error, when I tried to refresh the display.
I would not be too concerned about this, as I have a very low-specification set up. I am sure that most users will not be getting these problems. Yet. My internet connection goes via radio, so I have minimal capacity. Often having to run YouTube on the lowest resolution, to ensure it does not need to keep stopping for buffering.
However it is worth bearing in mind that you are probably approaching server capacity limits, given that you have updated all your plug-ins. So, unless there are any other software tricks you can pull, you should keep an eye on the upgrade options you have. The next time you get an increase in hits, the delays might impact everyone.
I mention this because I did drop a plug for Grrl Power with the BBC, just recently. I doubt I am influential enough for it to result in an article. But sooner or later some mainstream media, or major online site, will run a feature and you will get a spike in viewers. If you are not prepared for it, the site may become unresponsive due to demand. Which would loose all those potential new readers. So it is worth being prepared to upgrade, somehow, at short notice.
I’m still getting intermittent problems, mostly the page takes 10 seconds to do anything, then loads quickly one it gets started. That’s obviously not ideal so I’ll keep looking in to it. I think it might be one of the more significant security plugins I’m using. If you remember the site got hacked twice over the last year, year and a half, but not since I installed it. (WordFence). I also recently installed SuperCache, which most commenters won’t ever notice, but for the 95% of people who never log in to the comment form, SuperCache is quite good at keeping a server from dipping a huge amount if there’s a surge in traffic.
One thng that would have been funner (for me), is if Berry did the “Benny Hill” salute (complete with crossed eyes :P)
I think every Arc member will need to have a prepared bug-out kit bag setup with Harem in mind for any situation. Not that I really want this to degenerate to a knockoff of a best-left-unmentioned cartoon (can you say “Power Extreme!”) but then she could port and grab premixed kits for different circumstance. SAR bags with ropes and stretchers. Fight bags for this kind of thing.
And then there is the option to just grab Sydney and port her away while she uses the Imaging Ball to leave an untouchable scout in place to do recon…
If a gun pushes her mass limit she probably can’t teleport a person.
It is specifically said on the cast page that Harem can’t teleport other people.
Of course, just because Harem says she’s going to unteleport that body, doesn’t mean it’s what she’s going to do. If there’s no difference, to an observer, between unteleporting and teleporting away, she could just be seizing the perfect opportunity to go visit Machina Industries. Which would also explain why, if the guns are only just at her weight limit, she’s taking off the boots as well as losing the one body.
Side note: Is Shawn the same ex-SEAL from page 148?
Yup! I forgot his seal shirt on this page though.
The idea of “unteleporting” to increase her weight limit suggests that what she’s doing isn’t so much teleporting from a to b in the physical world, or is, herself, a physical entity. Instead it sounds more like she’s an n+1 dimensional entity which has a limit to the amount of mass she can extrude into this reality at any given time.
Being Cthulhu incarnate would explain her traitorous behaviour!
Say, is the title of this post a Bill Cosby reference? I seem to recall Bill telling a story of his grandfather giving him a quarter and rushing to the candy store giving orders. “I want six of these, and twelve of these, and fourteen of them!”
I think we can update “co-ed” or white haired harem’s who’s who pic from faceplanting to something less embarrassing
Unless those are fakes just laying around, to make the bad guys think they’re real.
Binge rereading.
Wasn’t there a SF novel (Interstellar teleporters called ‘Flingers’) where in one scene 2 passengers misjudged the weight of their carry-on and to avoid missing the hard-to-get teleport window jettisoned their expensive boots? Just noting that Harem is doing that too.
For most people, this superpowered bar fight was the most exciting and terrifying moment of their lives. But for Arc-SWAT, it was Tuesday.
Is there a reason support and operations people are named for car manufacturers? Doc Chevy, QM Sgt Vauxhall; they’re even the same company on different sides off the atlantic.