Grrl Power #1253 – Internship or internmentship
I do think Lapha has a valid, if entirely self-serving point about meeting strange new life and “normalizing” it, i.e., locking down any part of it that makes it threatening to humans, be they Supers or not. On the other hand… if you’re an alien who has eye lasers that can disintegrate people and leave just some dusty clothes flapping in the eddies of their atomized flesh, it’s probably not entirely unreasonable to ask you to wear ruby-quartz shades.
Maxima will absolutely pound the stuffing out of someone who attacks her or her team, but she also tries to keep an eye out for talent. She wouldn’t consider this course of action with Lapha if Dabbler hadn’t been able to lock her down, and even now it’s probably a little bit risky, but you don’t make a living at being a superhero if you’re looking for a boring and safe existence.
As far as Maxima wanting a memory copier on her team and the ethical considerations revolving around that, give her at least a page to explain. As per my usual hedge, I can only fit so much on a given page.
Oh, and if you’re unfamiliar with the quintessential “Are we the baddies” reference, please enjoy.
The new vote incentive is up!
Every so often I get the urge to try and draw Maxima all properly shiny, and this… isn’t my favorite attempt if I’m honest. I’ve been sitting on this for a little while doing little tweaks, and decided to finally publish it cause I’m already behind on these. The next one will (almost definitely) resume the trend of including a little mini comic to extend the scene a bit.
As usual, Patreon has some outfit variations as well as sans flagrante.
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. Feel free to contribute as much as you like.
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Well, given the choice I’m gonna say she works for them to get a little freedom. Not much but better than getting locked up until that body stops working.
Also the question arises as to how she’s going to interface with the computers if she’s stuck in the body? Doesn’t she have to get out of the body to get into the computer/whatever?
I suspect the ring Dabbler made contains some mechanisms to allow the wearer to control the access the subject has to the sealed abilities. So, you give her a handler (“under considerable supervision”) who has the ring and is trained in its use, and when it’s time to interface with a machine they partially unlock her abilities so she can do so. Or allow her to copy someone’s memories, or whatever.
And I’m not entirely sure I’d trust retail bodies to be engineered for maximum lifespans, either. More likely designed in obsolescence as soon as the warranty expires, to force you to buy the newest model. So she’s actually got a valid concern about suddenly being stuck in that body, I suppose.
But having Dabbler go to town with the old amnesia mallet would probably have been the smarter move.
Her power is retaining memories and using the mallet on the body wouldn’t affect her since she has her own energy body.
It would erase her memories if it destroyed her as well.
Hard to tell the goodies from the baddies, ain’t it? If we were all saints, the world *would* be a pretty dull place…
Nah pretty easy to tell in this case. If they were the bad guys they would have just outright ganked her the second she was out of Sydney.
That said how did forced servitude become the good guy option.
Is it enforced servitude? She did the crime, she gets offered a work release program instead of just staying in prison and she gets to choose. Also, at least in the US forcing prisoners to work is legal and common.
Yeah, when we constitutionally prohibited slavery, the amendment actually had an exception for imposing slavery as a penalty for a crime. It’s still constitutional to enslave people if done as a criminal sentence after conviction.
And that clause of the 13th Amendment is used routinely in a quarter or so of the states of the Union. The sentence is politely called ” imprisonment at hard labor” and is still around on a large scale.
Doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. Slavery used to be legal and common too. Penal servitude leads to some pretty serious abuses in the criminal justice system.
Not “ganking” Lapha is not the definition nor criteria for “good guys” so the stated question does not follow. The source of the option is power and ARCHON apparently has the power to offer the option. Whether ARCHON is “good” guys or “bad” guys is a separate and independent question.
“Good… bad… I’m the guy with the gun.”
https://youtu.be/Q0Hmc7eeXjw?t=36
They will use the excuse that she has a choice: work for the organisation or spend the rest of her life in prison. While morally, this is the same as a victim of robbery having the choice between handing over their wallet or getting a bullet to the face, that is how Governments operate, allways have and allways will. And we accept that because the alternative, utter lawlessness, would be worse. Rather than an endless Might Makes Right Round Robin Battle Royale in which there are only victims, there is a declared group of people with the Exclusive Might Makes Right Gambit to minimise the number of victims.
Morally, offering that option to a kidnapper is quite different from a mugger “offering” that option.
She can choose which option she gets. Pay your debt to society for kidnapping Sydney by going to prison, or by accepting a pretty good job offer. Like all those Nazi scientists and engineers got after WW2 from the US, UK, and USSR. Either case is probably better than what she had before, and offers a better chance for survival.
Lets not forget she was perfectly willing to capture & sell Max (twice) & Sydney into slavery.
not slavery, she was willing to kidnap and sell them to be disected and experimented, so worse, much worse
Lets not forget she was perfectly willing to capture & sell Max (twice) & Sydney into slavery.
(This may have posted twice – Sorry).
the main difference between Good and Evil is who gets the credit.
Not always siding with Max on stuff, but here Sydney really just should shut up and let the adult talk.
It does make sense to employ exceptional talent. The same way some hackers are hired for computer stuff.
I’d have just dumped her in a cell and hired the college student as an intern.
It’s understandable that they’d take a chance on some super on work release, because you’re talking people with unique capabilities, you can’t just hire they out of the welfare line, so they’re worth taking a bit of risk over.
But Laphi? Can’t do anything any other member of her species couldn’t do. She brings nothing special to the table except a history of crime. Really, her only arguable qualification that any other member of her species wouldn’t have is that they can justifiably keep her on lockdown, and I don’t think that’s enough to make up for her history.
She brings a very important thing, to them, to the table:
Lapha can’t say no.
They can’t make Tenri do sketchy black op stuff for the US government, the Federation knows where Tenri is, and they can’t just put a bullet in Tenri’s head if she doesn’t play ball.
Also Lapha has been surviving in the sketchy side of life for a long time while most of her species don’t. It’s not just this individual has this power but the whole package.
She can definitely say no. She can say no and go to earth prison for 20 years for a crime that she did commit, or she can spend that time on a work release program working for ARC-Dark.
Just because freedom from the consequences of her attempted criminal acts is not one of her choices does not mean she had only one choice. She has at least 2.
Criminal history might be a bonus. They know Lapha’s willing to do shady shit, while Tenri might (and, based on what we know, probably would) object.
This is the “how many birds with this rock” question. They’re not keeping Lapha around just because of her power, nor just because of her crime. Regarding crime, she’s now a “persistent” threat which means if they let her go sooner or later they’ll have her coming back at them to try again. She’s already done it once. They have no such risk prompting them to detain Tenri.
Second, they’re keeping her around because she is in possession of stolen secrets. So she requires either a security clearance, which she doesn’t have, or a security guard, which it looks like she’s getting.
All of which is more a case for throwing her in the pokey than bringing her on to the team in any fashion. In order to employ Lapha they have to trust Lapha to some extent, and bluntly speaking? Even with Dabbler’s no-body-hopping leash on her, I sure as heck wouldn’t choose to trust her with the job.
Tenri might be able to do the job equally well, but then you have to trust Tenri. The problem with trusting Tenri is that Tenri doesn’t have any kind of leash, nor is there any justification legal or otherwise to place one on her. Further Tenri doesn’t have anything keeping her on Earth at all. She could flee the jurisdiction offplanet at any moment, in possession of whatever secrets the job entails, even if she never hops on anybody else’s head.
What it comes down to? Lapha is stuck here and they have some justification to imprison her.
“Some” justification. Only just “Some.” She really ought to at least get a fair trial to decide, on the record and before the law, whether they’re allowed to push it this hard.
My personal issues with this police force detaining, sentencing and forcefully presgganging Lapha aside, she doesn’t really get to complain about the Earth monkeys being insensitive to her species in their attempt to keep her effectively detained, not after she forcefully inserted herself into a persons mind and violating their personhood and ignoring their laws.
That being said, is this woman ever gonna see a courtroom? Because them keeping her locked down to a body is one thing, equivilant to us keeping a person in a holding cell, but she’s not even been read her rights at this point (assuming she qualifies for basic rights as she is a sapiant being).
It’s the crybaby syndrome of any “might make right” when he doesn’t have the upper hand , pretty common on dictators, wannabe dictators and religious fanatics.
It’s bully 101 crying for justice if he was at disadvantage.
Exactly. This is the kind of person that shits on other people’s rights and tells them that “it’s a cruel, cold world, deal with it” but the moment they are caught they go “help, help, I am being unjustly oppressed!”.
This.
On a related note, maybe there should be more “punishment fits the crime” sentencing specifically based on the perpetrator’s violation of the rights of others. For example if someone steals, which clearly indicates they don’t respect other people’s right to keep their own property, then they lose that right themselves — it should be open season for other people taking any/all of the criminal’s stuff. Kind of a “Golden Rule rebound”.
Pretty much what I was thinking. She’s shown that she’s willing to abuse the power. Removing the power in an apparently reversible manner is probably a fair precaution. They’re not removing it simply because she has it – they’ve done nothing to “normalise” the other one, after all – but because she’s already used it in a harmful manner.
She has Sid’s memories and Sid was worried about a lot worse. Further an alien body stealer running around with military secrets that could destroy the planet wouldn’t do well in court. Max is being unreasonably lenient, not harsh.
She isn’t being read any because, quite frankly, she doesn’t have any rights here.
She took the risk of trying to take advantage of a world only newly introduced to the wider existence of the cosmos. And it almost worked as most law enforcement on earth cannot deal with someone like her.
For example; It’d be like if someone illegally moved from the US to a third-world country because they think it’ll be easier to kidnap people and, once caught, expected their Miranda Rights to be read to them.
Rights aren’t restricted to citizens. It’s established law that constitutional rights extends to non-citizens, even those here illegally. That might irritate the more xenophobic, but it’s the way it is.
Only because the Supreme court, when they finally got around to undoing the damage from the Slaughterhouse cases, invented that oxymoron, “substantive due process”. Instead of incorporating via the Privileges and Immunities clause, as Congressional debate makes absolutely clear was intended.
Every warm body is entitled to due process, it says “people”. But the P&I clause says “citizens”.
If the 14th amendment were being interpreted the way its authors expressly intended it to be, most rights WOULD be restricted to citizens. As they are in the majority of countries…
If non-citizens are denied due process, and you are wrongfully arrested and classified as a non-citizen, then you will be denied due process, and there will be no avenue by which to prove you are a citizen.
But they are restricted to people recognized by the state; Humans, Supers, and a select few supernatural creatures.
Lapha came here while the world was not aware of or prepared for her without outside assistance.
She would have a point if she wasn’t already guilty of two (three?) attempted kidnappings in broad daylight.
The definition of prisoner is someone whose rights are curtailed for the sake other people’s rights.
Like that guy who jumped the judge that sentenced him. He tried to attack the judge that senetenced him, his next court meeting had him in chains, gloves, facemask. The right to not have those on you gets waived when you try to do harm with them. Same with Lapha. She tried to kidnap a federal agent, twice, confessed to but expects that her right to judge bodies is to be respected?
I don’t know. Perhaps the claim is that it’s racist to reject her cultural values of possessing people and stealing their memories without their consent.
I’m pretty sure “Earth” doesn’t have laws that take aliens into account. There would be no legitimate court. She’s lucky Maxima doesn’t put a life sentence on her.
Or just outright kill her, she broke so many inter-galactic laws, much less USA laws, that I doubt anyone anywhere would bat an eye is she was shot outright.
None of those laws – ar least none of the US laws – carry a life sentence, let alone a death sentence. Not sure about galactic or Council laws but based on Tenri saying they would get so much jail for this, Dabbler’s reference to the hesitancy of the Xevoarchy to engage in killing the Alari, and DaveB’s blurbs about this being a variation on a typical aetholith punishment for Lapha’s crimes, I am guessing it’s not a galactic death sentence either.
under federal law Lapha could get any number of years for the kidnapping (the minimum sentence seems to be 20 years) and minimum of 30 years for illegal possession of a destructive device (Sydney’s orbs, two or three would probably count as DDs), possibly for EACH count if the judge is in the right mood, and aggravated assault and battery (the threat of leaving Sydney as an empty shell, I am positive Max made sure to Mirandize Lapha while Sydney was out cold, meaning that threat would be admissible in court) could get her another 20 years, so Lapha would get minimum of 50 years for just two crimes.
Interestingly Lapha could have received life sentence or even death penalty if Sydney died as a result of the kidnapping.
I responded to one of your posts elsewhere with a lot more specificity, but kidnapping by federal law is not a minimum of 20 years – it’s a maximum of 20 years. And the illegal possession of a destructive device has so many problems as a charge because (1) she never possessed the orbs, even while possessing Sydney, and (2) I have no idea what law you’re referring to about illegally possessing destructive device, but I believe the maximum sentence for illegal possession of a firearm is 5 years. And it wouldnt even apply here (not to mention that federal laws have definitions on what qualifies as a firearm).
There is no scenario where she would get a minimum of 50 years. The maximum I can see, and that would be with stretching the law a LOT, would be around 28 years (max of 20 for kidnapping, max of 3 for the assault, max of 5 for illegal possession of firearms) -and I don’t even think the third charge has any merit to begin with.
“Interestingly Lapha could have received life sentence or even death penalty if Sydney died as a result of the kidnapping.”
Yes… because then it would be a federal criminal charge of murder or felony murder, not attempted kidnapping. That didn’t happen though so it’s a moot point.
Kidnapping: “For federal kidnapping, in general: you can be sentenced to any number of years up to life imprisonment;” not sure where I got the “20 years minimum” from.
as for firearm charges, that’s for normal firearms, illegal possession of DDs is punished much more severely:
18 U.S. Code § 924 – Penalties:
“(b)Whoever, with intent to commit therewith an offense punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, or with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that an offense punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year is to be committed therewith, ships, transports, or receives a firearm or any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(c)
(1)
(A)Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided by this subsection or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime—
(i)be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years;
(ii)if the firearm is brandished, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 7 years; and
(iii)if the firearm is discharged, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years.
(B)If the firearm possessed by a person convicted of a violation of this subsection—
(i)is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or
(ii)is a machinegun or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years.”
note the sentences: “deadly or dangerous weapon or device” and “destructive device”
“Kidnapping: “For federal kidnapping, in general: you can be sentenced to any number of years up to life imprisonment;””
Incorrect. It’s a 20 year maximum sentence for kidnapping on its own, with no additional criminal actions on top of it (like the death of the person kidnapped, for example, which would not apply here)
“not sure where I got the “20 years minimum” from.”
You probably just misread 20 years maximum.
“as for firearm charges, that’s for normal firearms, illegal possession of DDs is punished much more severely:”
I literally just explained how you misread the law you just quoted again and how there was no commercial arms or drug trafficking so the entire law does not apply. The second half is dependent on the first half.
“note the sentences: “deadly or dangerous weapon or device” and “destructive device””
I also literally described the legal definition of ‘destructive device’ for the law. In the same law, look up the ‘definitions’ section please.
“there was no commercial arms or drug trafficking so the entire law does not apply.” the law says “ANY CRIME OF VIOLENCE OR DRUG TRAFFICKING CRIME”, threatening with violence is also a crime of violence, Lapha possessed Sydney’s body & while she couldn’t touch the PPO, you don’t need to be able to touch something for it to be in your possession, so she WAS in fact in possession of the PPO.
“I’m pretty sure “Earth” doesn’t have laws that take aliens into account. There would be no legitimate court. She’s lucky Maxima doesn’t put a life sentence on her.”
The US government does have treaties in place with the Council though, who do have laws about aliens who commit crimes on Earth.
Haha! Called it!
Right there with ya! I am SO sick of the race card being used any time someone gets caught doing something illegal. That line reminds me of the OJ Simpson trial, he was caught with a ton of evidence, and his lawyer pushed the race issue to help get him off, that and a pair of gloves, wet with blood, that shrank after drying. I know this because I have a pair of leather gloves that are insulated, if they get wet, they shrink for a bit once they dry.
The prosecution bungled the case massively which created reasonable doubt
If you have
a cop who’s
1) used racist epithets
2) denied under oath that he’s done so
3) was involved in collecting evidence
4) takes the 5th when asked whether he planted evidence
and the whole make OJ try and put the gloves on stuff up
it’s not overly surprising that the Jury doesn’t feel the case is proven
I had a guy I worked with on a Jury and the entire Jury felt that the defendant had probably done it but the prosecution hadn’t proven it so the verdict was not-guilty
That is a reasonable urge, Sydney.
*sigh*
…it is also absolutely the kind of extremely short-sighted and self-serving move I would expect from a committee headed up by Senator EarFuzz. Real Operation Paperclip crap. -_-‘
welcome to the real world. we exist to hurt each other. omelets and eggs. pots and kettles.
Realpolitik is another word for giving up any morals for a short term gain , like Munich in 1938 and Netanyahu politics towards Palestinian National Authority… they had backfired in epic proportions…
If you don’t make boundaries it will backfire hard, using a Kevin Mitnick or Michael Calce is OK , they are after all only macho geeks.
But using cyber-criminals like Hamza Bendelladj and Aleksandr Andreevich Panin is another thing they are not daredevils, they are robbers using their gains to fuel their lavish lifestyle – first class travel and palaces around the globe -.
you mean international relations? the poker game where everyone’s cheating?
If that’s true, then maybe such beings shouldn’t exist at all.
Sydney had a boarder view than Maxima , she will use someone without any moral compass for mission who due to their greyness need individual with a sense of right and wrong.
A more grounded exemple in 2015
In France a police indicator Claude Hermant, a neo-nazi had sold weapons to ISIS terrorist Amedy Coulibaly for the Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege…
He had returned to his holocaust supporting behavior…
The number of cautionary tales is innumerable don’t give enforcement powers to a criminal …
Yeah, that makes almost as much sense as setting blatantly corrupt people to make laws against corruption or letting old, fat men tell everyone what is legal and what is not while committing crimes all day long. (It is not a crime as long as THEY do it, after all)
Ah well. Sanity is for the WEAK!
Well if they did it out of the blue. yes.
but if she broke the law. well.. that is a shame but this is now prison time for her.
her species have to have prisons for their kind.
She’s not going to an aeolith prison since she can’t leave her body now. Also that would involve telling the Federation they have her and the Federation would want her back, criminal or not.
No, she’s getting thrown in an off-the-books hole. Probably until she dies, despite what Maxima says, because there’s 0 reason to let her out.
Hell, she might even just get a new hole in her head the second she’s out of Sydney’s sight if she picks option 1.
You seem determined to see this as a murder plot by a corrupt government institution. Nothing we’ve seen suggests that Maxima would engage in that sort of behavior. It would be wildly out of step with the rest of the comic.
Of course Maxima is corrupt. Do you think the memory copying is for helping alzheimers patients and computer overloading is for people that are sharing Netflix accounts?
Yes. If she’s getting new hole in her head, it’s going to happen not just out of Sydney’s sight but also out of Maxima’s sight.
“Hell, she might even just get a new hole in her head the second she’s out of Sydney’s sight if she picks option 1.”
And considering her capabilities and willingness to use them, should there be any risk AT ALL that her containment would fail, it would be entirely reasonable.
Apparently you haven’t been reading this comic very long. Those actions would be *completely* contrary to everything we’ve seen them do to date. They do have to make hard decisions, and do veer into “gray” areas from time to time, but the core decisions are universally “lawful good”. A hole in the head in a back room just would not happen.
As an example, they imprisoned a bad-guy super who actively stated he was going to kill Max, made a real attempt, and *almost succeeded* in one of the earliest arcs. And because he needs violence to survive (similar to how Dabbler needs sex to survive), here they are letting him out for a little supervised “fun”:
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-968-menagerie-fu/
At the end of the linked arc Max is seriously considering allowing him out on “work release” to assist with a fiend’s army. We never did find out for sure if that went forward, though.
What is with you people importing your own real-world anxieties into fiction? If you’re not willing to engage with the basic premises of the work, why are you even here?
because speculation is interesting and if we take things entirely as written the world of Grrl Power is very black & white. IE Archon is good no matter how it looks or their literal words say, Dabbler is just uh “quirky”, and whatever happens or is done to their enemies is deserved.
I very much doubt Dave puts much thought into these things himself, which is why his explanations for why various super sketchy things are tooootally cool & normal are pretty asspulled. Our speculation even affects the story ex: The scene with Dabbler & Parfait after the aura debacle was definitely because of the comments. We weren’t supposed to question why everyone was so strangely cool with what happened.
Also, personally I would consider having my memories copied by the US government to be pretty anxiety-inducing but hey you do you.
You’re not speculating. You’re ignoring the information provided in the comic, and substituting your own fears about how things work in our world and presenting it as fact. You come across as paranoid and anxious, rather than intelligent.
Took you longer than I thought it would to backhandedly call me stupid.
AND… She has knowledge about classified tech as well as a well documented mercenary streak along with criminal tendencies.
So… Intelligence work or making her an intern to certain politicians. (NOT Deus, he has a clue what he is doing!) Either would necessitate a total lack of scruples, a willingness to literally kill anyone who the boss tells her to and a utter lack of worry about that stupid thing called ‘the future’. Both would use her to facilitate their ends and neither would give a damn about collateral damage or whether or not she survives.
WORKS FOR ME!
Pretty sure you lose your racism card when you hijack someone’s body and acquire highly classified knowledge that cant be allowed to leak to the public. When slug people start robbing banks in America, you can be damn sure we are gonna start throwing salt at them and not think twice about it.
With Sydney’s memories she should remember what gapped to Sydney’s previous kidnapper.
Hard to say as let’s be honest… Earth is lacking the needed security, understanding, and isn’t going to be left alone as a small blue marble now that the rest of the galaxy sees earth as the odd planet producing a stable steady stream of people with super powers.
They are going to need more than one expert on things not from earth… And the choice between forced help or jail?
The last time she left, she kidnapped someone and tried using body hoping to steal super powers and just picked the one individual with a safety lock restriction in their powers… So while question able it is understandable.
Especially since they are trying to deal with the magical society problems, alien problems, magical aliens, and of course the regular super villains who are also getting stuff from the top three groups.
Ironically they are pretty understaffed for their job.
Was this done to Tenri; a being expressing the same species and gender as you who was the victim of your crime? No, Lapha. She got to walk out of here will all these abilities you abused intact. So not racism, just justice.
It’s being done specifically because of her race. Yeah, it’s racism. You can try to argue it’s JUSTIFIED racism but I ain’t touching that.
It’s being done because she KIDNAPPED and TRIED TO MURDER a US citizen.
If a person with arms attacks a disabled person who lacks them, it is not racism or prejudice to arrest and handcuff said attacker. He’d be being arrested and restrained to prevent him from causing further harm, not to somehow make him equal to the person he attacked. It’s the same thing here. She’s being deprived of this ability because she used it to harm someone and has shown she cannot be trusted not to try to cause harm with it again. It is the equivalent of handcuffing her. It is not racism unless it is being applied to all members of that race SOLELY FOR BEING that race.
That comparison doesn’t hold – handcuffing is, you know VERY TEMPORARY. While I don’t personally think it is racist, per se, I think it is unethical in the same sense that permanently cutting off the armed attacker’s arms and preventing them from getting prosthetics would be, but much worse.
There is no indication that this situation is permanent. It is a temporary restraint. Temporary in this case is longer than in the case of handcuffing someone, but that is simply because she cannot be safely contained and imprisoned without doing this.
It is precisely the same as keeping a suspected criminal in jail until their trial, and – if convicted – during their sentence.
Calling it “racism” is just a buzzword, nothing more. If she had Dabbler’s lust aura, they’d be locking *that* down, for fairly analogous reasons.
Even closer parallel: the restraints on the Orbs when Lapha was in control of Sydney’s body. Do no harm, but prevent use of special abilities.
And has been repeatedly pointed out, this is not necessarily a “forever” thing – it’s to keep her from escaping custody. If anything, this is the team playing nicer than they had to – they could have left her as an Eye-of-Sauron ornament on Dabbler’s shelf unstead of decanting her into her own bespoke body.
Quite honestly, given that she attempted little things like kidnapping, human trafficking, and murder several times over, it could be argued they’re being far nicer than they should be. I’m pretty sure Cora would have been happy to just splatter her, instead.
“Yeah, it’s racism.”
It’s racism in the same way that using 2 sets of handcuffs on a race with 4 arms would be racism, when you wouldn’t use 2 sets of handcuffs on a race with only 2 arms.
Yep, “racist”. Gigglesnort.
It’s not racist, it’s specie-ist.
The baggage of racism is that it is largely stupid BS (outside of medical history/other legitimate genetic concerns and fairly small acting/appearance issues, such as accurate depiction of historical figures). It has indeed resulted in horrific oppression of a great many people groups ALL across the racial spectrum (it’s fully and completely *inclusive*), historically speaking, up to and including genocide.
Specie-ism would be quite a bit more complicated and thought-requiring, as species are actually different. A better model would be sexism, not racism. Since there actually are notable physical differences between men and women (most significant and obvious being the ability to gestate children), there are entirely legitimate reasons to treat them differently in some cases, but also plenty of examples of BS, bigoted reasons.
There is also legitimate issue of white people being easier to track against background (Microsoft Kinect had problem with black people and that’s not racism), and then there is question of some medicine only working on subset of people which while not entirely matching race has quite big correlation.
The medicine fits within the much more general “medical history/other legitimate genetic concerns”, but the “skin color versus background” is a nice add – thank you!
It’s nice to a have “race” issue to point out that a) isn’t race at all in any meaningful sense, and b) doesn’t actually fall long lines of “race” except in the most watered down and bigoted way (there are people of several groups that are light enough for these kinds of problems).
No, it’s not being done specifically because of her race
It’s being done because she can possess people and has shown she’s willing to do it to unwilling targets
Really that argument is about as stupid as claiming that shooting an active mass shooter is violating his 2nd amendment rights
Even Faux News hasn’t gone that far yet
“So not racism”
Ah, but it can be put in academic terms as if it were! Therefore, people who are weak to such claims (as Sydney is showing) may fall for it.
That covers a large chunk of racism claims in the US today. In politics, it’s definitely the majority of such claims….
Well, among humans it is actually ‘subspeciesism’, but hey, we don’t have to make sense.
Not even. If it were Neandertal or Denisovans it would be subspeciesism. But there are no more Neandertal or Denisovans. Everybody left is the same species, full stop. Nobody distinguished by “race” has the slightest difficulty producing children with any other human. Even the Tibetans (who have better oxygen transport than most due to higher red blood cell counts) and Bajau (who have enlarged spleens that can store a lot of oxygenated blood and can stay underwater for up to six minutes) are not “subspecies.”
Considering her first act upon arrival was to shanghai Sydney and start making ultimatums and threats of scorched earth if not complied… not gonna cry about her punishment
I would posit that racism is more defined by actual beliefs that someone is inferior or hatred towards them.
Rather than a, perhaps insensitive, joke after restraining the racial characteristics you were using to try and sell people into slavery.
>Maxima will absolutely pound the stuffing out of someone who attacks her or her team, but she also tries to keep an eye out for talent. She wouldn’t consider this course of action with Lapha if Dabbler hadn’t been able to lock her down, and even now it’s probably a little bit risky, but you don’t make a living at being a superhero if you’re looking for a boring and safe existence.
Yeah, that makes sense. Lock em down and give the hard sell.
and there we go. Like I said, it’s entirely extra judicial. The Federation won’t even know she’s there.
Also the second option 100% involves America’s enemies.
As for the racism part, well she’s right though the comparison isn’t great (probably intentionally). It’s more like hacking off part of her legs to reduce her height to that of the Caucasian average and or whatever leg muscles are tied to sprinting.
“As for the racism part, well she’s right though the comparison isn’t great”
If a species has 4 arms, when you arrest them, you would have to treat them differently – you’d have to use 2 pairs of handcuffs instead of only 1 pair.
Is that “racism”? Because this is “racism” the way that is “racism”, and if that is “racism”, you’ve just defined it down so far that you’re practically defending other racists.
Similar example: “sex offender” registries include people who mooned someone in public (or urinated in public where no one could see actually see anything, for an even more ridiculous example) right along with pedophiles who predate on 4 year olds.
If that’s “racism”, the term is dead and useless. Considering all the frivolous and outright BS stuff it gets used for in politics, we’re way too close to that, already. Don’t contribute to the problem.
They cut off her “arms” and they’re going to stay cut off until they let her go (which personally I don’t think Maxima actually will)
These people tried to kidnap and sell Max. Their complete failure doesn’t make that less heinous. My sympathies are at rock bottom for her and her scaly boytoy. Pressganged into service is a saintly level of restraint.
Aside from being stuck on Earth, being pressganged is probably a step up for Lapha. She and Garamm are essentially low level hired thugs. If their observed performance is any indicator, they aren’t even particularly good at it. You can’t really ascribe sociopathy to them since that is a construct of human society but Sydney is getting played by Lapha’s jailhouse lawyering. From ARC’s point of view they are foreign agents who pose a threat to ARC personnel and by extension to ARC and the United States. As foreign agents who don’t have the benefit of treaty or diplomatic immunity they would in fact, have very few rights. If they are freelancers, whoever hired them probably isn’t coming to the rescue. They failed at their first attempt at the job and tried to salvage the mission by going after what they perceived to be a more accessible target and failed again. If Lapha becomes an ongoing character there is a lot of potential humor in Max’s efforts to keep her on the straight and narrow.
Makes sense. Not only does have have knowledge of their whole system (Sydney needs to change all her passwords now.), having knowledge of Nth tech, the council, etc is a very big liability.
I think that Sydney didnt change her passwords – Leon put a password encryption program on instead. Sort of like LastPass. Not sure if she had time to change anything else anyway – so she was going to have to change the rest as it is. Assuming she doesnt regularly change passwords because she forgets them – which isnt too much of a stretch for Sydney. :)
If a person with arms attacks a person who has lost their arms, and gets arrested and handcuffed for committing said attack, they don’t get to complain that the police are being prejudiced and “regressing them to the victim’s mean.” They are a criminal and a dangerous threat, and they are being restrained to prevent them from causing further harm.
Lapha committed assault and battery, attempted kidnapping, ACTUAL kidnapping, and her threats to wipe Syndey’s brain probably fall under attempted murder or at least intent to commit murder. She used her “racial distinctiveness” to do it. So, she is being restrained, justifiably, to prevent her from causing further harm. Anyone who seriously calls this racist needs their head examined.
Yes, exactly!
The “it’s racism! it’s illegal!” crowd are ignoring a fair bit of established in-comic context, author comments, and relevant IRL equivalents. That’s bad faith engagement. There are better ways of getting dopamine & oxytocin hits, IMO, but *shrug*
“The “it’s racism! it’s illegal!” crowd are ignoring a fair bit of established in-comic context, author comments, and relevant IRL equivalents.”
To be fair, most of those type ignore any such concerns IRL, too.
The “racism” claim has been tremendously cheapened by such bad faith usage. Even more by morons SUPPORTING such bad faith usage.
She saw Sydney’s memories of Max being nice. She must be silenced!
Oh, she also saw the other classified into Sydney has, so that also must be taken care of
Except that Maxima did not call her “normal”. Dabbler said that 99% of known intelligences could not hop bodies and she is recognized as an authority on the subject by ArcSWAT. It was never stated or implied that her power was not “normal”, merely rare. Lapha is making an argument equivalent to a bank robber complaining about having their gun taken away because they bout it legally.
She committed felonies on earth that impact the security of billions.
Just tell Lapa-mindraper the other option is death.
When you get diverted from the criminal act committed , the victim(s) and society suffer.
as we see it happening right now.
In time,Lapha tries to show Max that she is unreliable and a bit of a kook to the point that she frequently desserts her post…!
Will it take some horrific event to have Max court martial Lapha?
Of course they’re the baddies. They’re just government funded baddies. They’d side with Iron Man in Civil War and we all saw how bad that was :p
The funny thing about Civil War – both sides were largely correct about themselves.
Steve Rogers being free to make the decisions? Heck, making the decisions for everyone? Good.
Tony Stark making those decisions, even for himself? Bad.
Insert long discussion here about Tony projecting his problem onto others and comparing to political parties and such.
The weakness of Tony’s position was who he would outsource it to – politicians are, with exceedingly few exceptions, horrible human beings. Even the ones who do decent things in office are often pretty lousy human beings doing good things for selfish or bad reasons.
being “the baddies” implies that what they are doing is wrong, which it isnt
hell they are being far to lenient Lapha has comited enough crimes that in other cases would get you in a black site for the rest of your life
Arc is a government group who tries to put it’s will on other groups. Including, trying to spy on non enemy states, because they have supers, not under their specific control.
Can’t help but think putting her computer hacking skills to use, is to attack other nations.
I was expecting them to offer her a job. The information she has from Sydney is too risky, even if the knowledge of them as potential “nth” tech is out.
If she was a prisoner there would be all sorts of complications about her having access to talk with people. By hiring her they can keep the information she has suppressed and use her skills for interrogation.
I guess if memory access was too intrusive, she could alwasy be used voluntarily by victims or witnesses to give them perfect recall.
Sydney… you’re a space fantasy COP… deal with it… (ACAB mean ACAB)
Funny thing about those who change ACAB at rallies….
When they have a problem, such as someone breaking into their home or robbing them, who do they call?
The police, of course. It’s mindless political BS and little (if anything) else.
I know this is just a storybeat written to keep her in the roster, but it kinda bothers me that these are the choices for the crimes of attempted kidnapping and theft of technology comparable on the level to stealing a nuclear bomb. Feels like 20 years is really light of a sentence here if anything.
Oh, right, THAT’S why I wear ruby quartz glasses. So when I glance, there’s a chance I don’t blast the masses.
Shouldn’t the team be looking to armor that weakness instead of just neutering the first bad guy that used it on them? Ala that anti demon possession tattoos used by Sam and Dean Winchester on Supernatural.
Hm. Maybe one of the things Lapha is going to help them with is testing out anti-Aetholith stuff to see if it works…
There seems to be a lot of readers who assume that “they just just build a nullification field” when there’s no evidence to support that’s possible
I’m sure people are working on it but it’s not something that the comic needs to cover and it probably wouldn’t be quick
Meh. She’s got all of Sidney’s memories, including those that will let her cheerfully sell to the highest bidder the information on where to find an impressive piece of Nth Tech. She’s not just a national security risk, she’s an existential risk for the planet. People _really_ want Nth tech. Best answer is to erase her entirely vice gambling that she won’t get out or otherwise get the info out.
” Best answer is to erase her entirely”
Considering the actual crimes she committed and attempted to commit, execution wouldn’t be a huge stretch in many jurisdictions (certainly it would be normal almost everywhere on the planet until very recently on the historical scale) even without considering those issues., though “life without parole” would probably be a better fit.
Until very recently historically, prison would have been used in very limited circumstances.
– political prisoners, basically hostages. Which means you are an important person.
– debtors, who were charged for their upkeep. Not sure how they would get out of debt in this way; probably by either inheriting money or working off the debt.
Normally an offender would get held in jail until trial, which wouldn’t have been all that long (maybe three months or so at most). Punishment would have been one or more of fines, enslavement/indenture, branding, mutilation or death.
Keeping a person in prison costs money, and generally speaking most offenders were not considered worth the cost of imprisonment. The benefit of the other punishments from the POV of the justice is that either you end up getting money, or at the very least the offender is off your hands.
This changed partly because we got rich, and partly because people became more important in general.
The ‘erase her entirely’ part is based more on the potential threat to the planet, not as a punitive measure by itself. Her knowledge could easily spark an alien invasion that could kill millions.
Did we ‘normalize’ wolves?
Discuss. ;)
I’m not surprised that a Statunitian government agency acts like it can rule over any and everybody. hoping for Halo’s villain arc
Lapha’s head in panel three makes her look like she has an Amish beard.
Only 23% chance of employment? Those numbers seem mighty low to me
It was noted after the big restaurant melee that a lot of supers prefer their life in the private sector. If you count those supers who were manipulated into the fight into the percentage it probably skews the numbers.
Wait, if it’s not Anvil’s skin tone that is making her a massive and ongoing threat, what is?
Oh, that’s definitely the thing all the white people are scared of Anvil about. No other POSSIBLE explanation.
All the white people are racist, you know. You can tell by their…. race. :-/
You know who else has information about Sydney’s balls? Almost everyone in that fucking building, plus SmugD, plus everyone who was outside Sydney’s Church (including the group who managed to escape)!
Harem stopped her before spilling most of the secrets.
There is still 1 Kidnapping (Sydney), 1 Attempted Kidnapping (Maxima), Assault, Attempted assault & Terrorism (trying out the PPO). And of course espionage (everything she copied from Sydney).
not everyone knows they are Nth tech, only Maxima, Dabbler and Cora (and now Harem) have that kind of information, she also has more information about the capabilities and vulnerabilities of her powers, about the capabilities of Maxima and the rest of the team
that is some juicy information that im sure a lot of aliens with less than scrupulous objectives would pay good money to obtain
also yeah that group is now a masive security risk
She shouted it out loud in the parking lot when there were multiple ear-witnesses, some of whom were using recording devices
Now, Now, Sydney, at least you don’t wear hats with skulls on them.
Lapha has already seen that Sydney is an extremely empathetic person, from her reaction to Lapha’s backstory. She’s pretty obviously trying on some of her other perceived weaknesses. If Sydney responds, she’s going to try to work on splitting her off.
The “hats with skulls” thing is funny, but if it were a reliable indicator then we would be locking up literally every heavy metal band ever.
At this rate I wonder how long it will be before the team is majority-former enemy? Yeah, I get that Lapha is unlikely to be a regular team member, but she strikes me as being more generally available than the vehement guy.
Do consider that Heatwave, Mr Amorphus, and Achilles were vigilantes, on the wrong side of the law, before they were inducted into Archon. So right from the get-go, a significant portion of the cast was “former enemy”.
There’s an enormous difference between “vigilante” and “enemy”, even for the most legalistic police officer.
Vigilantes are attempting some form of justice, generally when the law has failed to deliver. Every single major moral system in the world would have obvious and known cases where every legal system has failed to deliber justice, so there is definitely room for such.
The arguments against vigilante-style justice have to do with trust and protections for the innocent, not morality, and in many ways, not even ethics. There are good arguments there, on both sides, and it can be very interesting.
Somebody like Lapha, willing to kidnap, enslave, and steal, threaten with murder, probably actually murder, etc, all for their own personal gain and with no thought or consideration for the guilt or innocence of their target is not comparable.
That second panel – especially with the little snap – gives the impression that Lapha isn’t actually offended in terms of her race. That’s more of an, “I got it, THIS might make them let me go, they HATE being called racist!”
So the accusation is being used in what is standard, normal fashion, then.
Might want to look at the actual situation rather than the GOP/Fox News claims
This statement’s not in line with any of my lived experience, no. Somewhere between most and all of the times I’ve ever seen someone call out racism it’s been because the person they’re calling out was being a really egregious racist bigot. And then the bigot got all whiny because they’re not used to real-world consequences; They’re used to being treated as better than other people without putting in the work.
Those people definitely exist. And yes, today, they get called out… enough so that they often hide those views in public, even. Which is largely a good thing (would be better if they wouldn’t hide their views so we would know about them, but I don’t know how to both publicly condemn them AND have most of them still self-identify for society’s benefit).
But what actually gets flung around, certainly in the media and such, is nearly all BS. Proper border security, for instance, is a valid concern that does not imply racism, unless you want to claim that Mexico is racist against South Americans (for just one REALLY obvious example among a huge number of examples). Wanting proper ID for voting (like every other first world nation) is not racism, and in fact, the people claiming it is racist are making explicitly racist claims (and also incredibly stupid and easily disproved claims) about minorities.
I could give numerous other examples. That there are also some examples of actually racist people does not change it.
I vote in Australia, I don’t need to produce ID to vote.
The reason the “must provide ID to vote” is called racism is because the types of ID they require are designed to exclude African Americans because they set acceptable IDs ones that African Americans are less likely to have.
The “proper border security” includes not processing refugees…
Also the number of American citizens asked to prove their citizenship who just happen to not be white…
“The reason the “must provide ID to vote” is called racism is because the types of ID they require are designed to exclude African Americans because they set acceptable IDs ones that African Americans are less likely to have.”
Considering that those exact same IDs are required for a LONG LONG LONG list of other things in our society, nobody who claims to believe this actually believes it, or they would be advocating for a WHOLE LOT of things besides just “don’t need ID to vote”.
-opening a bank account (!)
-flying on a commercial flight
-going into many government buildings
-buying alcohol and some other items
-buying a gun (and Constitutionally protected right, same as voting)
etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. You are arguing in either bad faith or thoughtlessly parroting talking points that are painfully racist.
Have you every spoken with any non-white people about getting ID? They generally find such claims highly offensive. And racist.
“proper border security”
Tiresome and predictable BS.
Literally, there are countries in the world that are neighbors and made up almost exclusively of the same ethnic group that do more about border security between them than the US does.
Clearly, the only POSSIBLE answer is that they are racist against themselves. No other reason for borders or border security exists. It’s all about racism, all the time. Just like any other topic where the left has no actual argument.
But hey, thanks for being a great example of exactly the kind of brainless and bad faith accusations I was talking about.
Someone on the right disagrees with you? *****RRRRRAAAACCCCIIIISSSSMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!****** Actually arguing your points on the merits is for evil right wingers.
Apologies for going off-topic, but…
The phrase “the media” is one I recommend you look closely at. Whose voices get lumped in as “the media,” and how exactly is it that the people telling you who “the media” is are not themselves members of that group? In my experience some really dumb tautologies and True Scotsmen get bandied about when declaring disagreeable news sources as part of the conspiracy and beloved news sources as plucky outsiders who aren’t in the pocket of the monied interests.
“The phrase “the media” is one I recommend you look closely at.”
Easiest definition, the institutions that presumptively get a media pass at the White House, or that have a functionally standing invitation to the White House Correspondent Dinner and such.
CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. You know, the groups that wouldn’t be presumptively blocked on Twitter at the now admitted behest of the FBI, even when what they are reporting is completely factual.
Lesser outlets do manage to get such passes, too, but it’s a pretty easy grouping to make. The only outlet of any significance that doesn’t toe the line is Fox, and they are subject to *TREMENDOUS* vitriol for their sins (even in cases where they are the only such “major” outlet that is proven correct, like in a lot of the Trump/Russia hoax).
I would agree that “No True Scotsman” does indeed get used on this topic… very, very much from both sides. See the treatment of Fox News or the New York Post, for instance.
Yeah, this accusation almost certainly comes out of the fact that she recently possessed Sydney, who has repeatedly shown herself to be full of white guilt.
Fortunately, while the race card may make Sydney panic and ask “Are we the baddies who are being racist and cruel to the poor, innocent criminal who threatened to wipe my mind and leave me as a drooling vegetable?” it seems like Max isn’t falling for it.
At any rate, the clear answer to “Is this racism?” exists in the form of Tenri. The fact that they aren’t doing any of this to Tenri makes it very clear that this isn’t a response to Lapha’s race. It’s a response to her actions.
I get the feeling that, if Anvil had heard that, she would have put Lapha in her place. Through several walls. Into the ARCHON morgue (assuming they have one).
Even if you could make the argument that what Dabbler did was racist (which I can’t see being reasonably made), Lapha attempted to kidnap an ARCHON agent, hijacked her body, was entirely willing to suppress and destroy Syndey’s distinctiveness and free will, and effectively stole highly classified national secrets and information. This is like a black guy, well, trying to steal the nuclear launch codes from the Pentagon and then claiming ‘racism’ when the cops beat him down. And this is the *best* outcome for Lapha. The one where Anvil doesn’t put her through several walls.
It’s only racist if they do it to everyone who has those abilities. Using them to commit crimes justifies locking those abilities down.
Yes, Lapha’s just trying to find an excuse to get out of this, just like any other criminal that desperate to get out of what ever they were caught doing. Plus she knows Sydney better than anyone now, so it’s obvious she’s trying to get her help escaping. The very act of punishing a criminal, more so a violent one, could be considered racist. “I have a right to hurt and kill if I want” yeah… right…
“The very act of punishing a criminal, more so a violent one, could be considered racist.”
Claims that are at least directly adjacent to that (if not just that straight-up) get made in public in the US, by the side of the debate that is supposedly “pro minority”.
The racism involved in MAKING that claim is really disgusting. It reduces to “those poor little brown people can’t really help themselves from being violent, you know.” Hideous, absurd racism, right out in public. But it’s said by the “approved” people, so it’s magically OK…. somehow.
Stats show that drug use is pretty much equally common between african americans and whites.
Check how many of each race are prosecuted for drug use
“Check how many of each race are prosecuted for drug use”
and the only POSSIBLE explanation for that is RAAAAAAAAAAAACISM!!!!!!!!!!
The massive cultural differences (check the murder rate, or which kinds of music are popular and what kinds of behaviour is celebrated in said music, or any of dozens of other things) couldn’t **POSSIBLY** result in any actual behavioural differences of *ANY* kind that would result in different rates of apprehension, right? Of course not…
And it also couldn’t possibly have to do with the way the plea bargain system is so horrendously abused, either. NOT POSSIBLE. I mean, cases where criminals are arrested for multiple crimes and plea-bargain down to only the drug crimes (or not… the drug crimes are still drug crimes, even if other crimes go along)… No, that NEVER happens! Nope, nope, nope! (In case you are not catching the ocean-deep sarcasm there, it definitely does.)
Of even just the crime rate in general? When you’re catching someone for other crimes and they *also* have drugs, BAM, drug charges. Blacks commit most “other crimes” at about twice the rate of the rest of the US (it’s actually 6-10 times the rate for murder, depending on the year).
Did you even think about any of that? At all? Have you looked at the actual data? AT ALL? Or are you just parroting brain-dead talking points that let you signal that you’re a good person (against racism!) without actually, you know… DOING anything or actually opposing actual racism that goes on?
“Disparate impact” (which is what you using to imply racism) is utter BS. AT BEST, it’s taking a massive shortcut that makes a mockery of any sorts of protections for the innocent, but mostly, it’s just a tool for people who want an excuse to scream RACISM! at other people to make themselves feel good without actually putting out any effort.
But even worse (or better, I suppose, if you just want excuses to accuse people), it doesn’t identify anything to actually DO about it! Clearly, those evil white people are racist, but we can’t actually identify what they are doing that’s racist… we just KNOW THEY ARE. There’s nothing to change (because any specific claim can be investigated, and might be wrong! Or course, if it was not wrong, we could actually, you know, make things BETTER… which would get in the way of making more racism claims, so we can’t have THAT), we’re just going to keep screaming racism forever.
Make actual claims, not BS ones that just sound good and make you feel good about yourself. Actual claims can result in actual improvement to the situation.
Let me give you an example of something that might actually be identifiable racism: the difference in *sentencing* for crimes. Blacks are sentenced noticeably worse for the same crimes than whites, even accounting for multiple offenses, etc. No one has been able to find any other even vaguely sufficient explanation to the data on that (unlike the example you gave, which has many), so it might well be racism! “No explanation”, after much looking, definitely leaves room for that (though any explicit mechanism for that maybe-racism hasn’t been found, either, which makes it hard to fix, if that’s even the actual problem, which does seem likely).
But then, men are sentenced MUCH MUCH worse than women for the same crimes, so if you’re going to go there, that suggests our society is MUCH MUCH more sexist against men than racist against blacks. And that’s usually not acceptable to people falling for “disparate impact” type talking points.
Intellectual honesty is WORK, and most people are unwilling to do it. I don’t fault them for that. What I do fault them for is not putting in the work, then wading into the debate, anyway. Ignorance AND arrogance, at the same time… not a pretty package, and often actively harmful to the cause that such a person is trying to support.
This exactly the outcome I expected.
Here outcomes were:
– dead
– incarceration
– incarceration with lots of walking space
Her crimes include at least:
– illegal entry into country
– assault on Sydney (Law Enforcement/Military officer)
– attempted kidnapping of Sydney
– attempted assault on Harem and possibly terrorist activity (trying to try out the PPO)
– attempted extreme assault/possibly murder of sydney (the memory wipe threat)
– espionage (how you got the secret information is of secondary concern. Don’t go stealing peoples memories!)
Honestly? 20 years seems short. By about an order of magnitude.
you forgot AGGRAVATED assault AND battery (the memory wipe threat), and the attempted assault on Harem would probably get upgraded to illegal possession of a destructive device (or rather, multiple, the light hook is also a very dangerous weapon, and the gas orb can also be weaponized so that is also a DD), that last one is minimum sentence of 30 years.
In France for the same charges, 20 years seems the minimum and life sentence likely …
She will be liberated after 22 years … if she got a life sentence.
The terrorist activity is phony , but attempted murder on Harem and possession of A2 category weapon are valid in France.
Only the 1st degree murder of children with rape and /or torture, the 1st degree murder of police officers or magistrates , and terrorism could mean a life sentence without parole in France.
In 2024 only 6 prisoners are in this case in France.