Grrl Power #1136 – Doppelprankster
Introducing Chimyriad, at least formally. Do recall she’s a Patreon cameo, but she fills an important slot in Archon’s intelligence branch. It’s more of a twig, really, since Archon itself is really small, so they need everyone they can get.
Arc-Dark is like Archon’s Section 31. They don’t go out of their way to deliver extra-judicial… well, justice, but it does happen sometimes. Mostly they’re pure intelligence gathering, and they get a lot of mileage out of no one knowing they exist. Invisibility and shapeshifting are pretty useful in a fight, but they’re way more useful for gathering evidence, especially if no one knows there might be invisible and/or shapeshifted people about.
It’s like being an illusionist. Potentially incredibly useful, but as soon as someone knows their opponent is an illusionist, most of their arsenal evaporates. That’s why every illusionist should still know a telekinesis spell, and also maybe fireball, so when their opponents go, “Don’t worry, it’s not really a dragon!” you can keep ’em guessing. I’d also get a lot of mileage out of “Summon Tiger Trap,” and then cover it with ground textures that aren’t conspicuously offset by a few pixels. If people think their next step could be their last, you can really slow them down.
The February Vote Incentive is up! Yes, I know it’s late and I still owe you guys one for March. I already have the pencils mostly done, so hopefully you guys won’t be waiting for it all month?
Kat, you remember, the newly minted were-hare? Well, someone forgot to give her a copy of “Are You There God? It’s Me, Were-Margaret.” She has questions is what I’m saying.
Variant outfits and lack thereof over at Patreon.
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. Feel free to contribute as much as you like.
SuperheroThey're super, thanks for asking!
Meatspace ComicSeriously these are awesome. Check 'em out!
Not UpdatingNo longer updating or only updates sporadically, but definitely worth reading.
SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
Is this how she actually looks, or her most common look. If the former, it’s a little boring, I was expecting soemthing like supernatural with their shapeshifters and never knowing what they truly look like, never knowing if they’re humans with unique skills or monsters (also, she shapeshifted fangs and multiple eyes). But whatever, it’s nice to know.
I’m still worried because if the ascenders have someone like Death Doll, Void, and Supermassive on their roster, each of whom can give Maxima trouble, what other dangerous heroes could they have. Also, can we finally know who Goon Squad is, I’m curious to know how smart the original is.
In panel 5 she looks like a member of Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. (Also known as G-Force)
That’s better than looking like a member of the other movie G-Force, though I suppose she could pull that off, too.
Yeah- having teenaged sons, I saw the movie G-Force quite a few times when they were young, so it was my first image “I panel 5 she looks like a guinea pig?”
(of course my kids also watched Battle of the Planets, from when I was a kid, which includes a G-Force)
On behalf of the real Chimy: fuck you!
She’s beautiful, not everyone can have literally shining gold skin
I totally agree, she might not be a “Hard Rock Cover Gal” but she makes me wish I was 30 again, oh yeah and a super lol. (Insert hentai manga here) ;)
I cannot make a super, sorry.
As for the rest of it…”spoilers, Sweetie.”
Heh, just an old man’s wish list, in truth if I could chose an age, it’d be 20, but with all the knowledge and experience of being 63 gives. As far as the manga comment, that was a dig at my youngest’s obsession with it, he’s 33 now and STILL watches/reads it. When he read that he mumbled “shut up dad” heheh… Don’t read over my shoulder then, son!
Sounds like you raised a smart kid. ^_^
…
I literally can? I choose not to.
If I were going to do something distinctly inhuman for my default (which is edited, btw) I would go with charcoal skin, low/no shine, and stark white hair, hi-gloss, side sweep style (a la Jennifer Connelly as Sarah Williams) and all blue Fremen eyes. Also bruised magenta lip color?
…and now that I’m thinking about this, high waist navy blue Calvin Kleins worn with 2 inch heeled black calf-skin turned over-knee boots, and…actually yeah, the same top and vest Connelly wore in Labyrinth, tweaked for color scheme. Orange & gold scrunchie, gypsy hoop earrings, lots of bangles. Yeah.
…wait, what were we talking about?
Also, Mark your calendar, Guest.
I owe you an apology, from the previous comment section.
I hit you with an undeserved “Schrodnger’s Douchebag”. I’ve gotten so used to you asserting “it was a joke” after the fact, that I responded with that automatically, and did not engage my (admittedly sleep-deprived) brain.
I was wrong, it was neither deserved, nor remotely sensical, and I apologize.
No worries, it’s just, kinda defeats the intent of making a joke if you have to explain that you are about to make a joke, or say you made a joke before someone had a chance to respond
Not all jokes will warrant a laugh, some of the greats often were greeted with silence
This is her public face. Just like Dabbler’s public face is/was that blond. Maybe exactly like that.
Just a quick reminder that hero is in indication of which side someone stands on, or their role in a story, not how potent they are in a conflict or emergency. While the Ascenders may have a few more supervillians, (pardon, Marvel and DC, but the term is so common it should really go the way of Kleenex and Aspirin), they shouldn’t have any heroes at all; super or otherwise.
Also, the illustrated form of Chimy is a lovely rendition of the human form. Not every superheroine can have the red hair/green eyes look, as attractive as that rare combination is.
Can you imagine if they did? Every bank robber would be sure to shoot the green-eyed gingers first, just in case they had power over houseplants or something.
Not in greek myths an hero is a demigod or demigodess , in the case of Maxima the two definitions could be used.
Strictly speaking, a Hero is a Mortal who is able to play on the stage of the Deities as an equal, or near-equal.
Not in all things, mind you, nor necessarily victoriously, or without negative consequences if they do emerge the victor.
Consider the story of Arachne. Yes, Athena cursed her…but even the Goddess did not deny the woman’s skill, or assert that her work – while blasphemous – was not superior to her own.
Given her membership in Arc-Dark it would be ideal that as few people as possible know her baseline appearance. This may just be her everyday work place appearance that is familiar to everyone. But to answer Max’s question, yes, I would have to do the faces.
She definitely shouldn’t be showing her actual/default face in the middle of an enemy base, even if the fight’s over there’s a good chance security footage is being backed up offsite for as long as their systems are operational.
Yeah, definitely not her actual face given her role in Arc-Dark. She would need something that all of her team mates could recognize though. Were I a shapeshifter I would have a half dozen or so go-to faces for different tasks. Not superhero stuff, the every day tasks of normal life. There would be the everyday at work face, attractive enough that people would want to be on my team but no so much as to provoke distracting lust. You could also have the go away, I’m busy face and the “Yes, I am so very attractive I do deserve a deep discount on the expensive item that you are trying to sell me” face. That last one is probably straying into Dabblers bailiwick.
Good to see Heatwave’s Who’s Who entry continues to let us know that’s she’s not always quickest on the uptake.
She processes information differently. She’s not dumb.
Case in point, when we first met her, she was the one who twigged to the fact that Max’s lips are naturally that color & she doesn’t where lippy, therefore could not have left the kissy marks on Mr. A & Achilles (who tried to subtly redirect her and spare Harem her wrath for what was a relatively harmless prank).
I once again put forward my theory that Les is the CGHB.
I think the joke there was that everyone else had already figured by basic assumption that it was one of Harem’s pranks on Maxima, hence their shock that she was just figuring it out when she did. :)
The only two people there when she said it, where Anvil & Harem.
One of them obviously knew, and was, I think, more alarmed that Heatwave was deducing her way through it with a bit of info she herself had in the “unknown known” box.
Anvil, I think, was more reacting in a “oh, shit, that’s right,” way.
…people really need to stop looking down on the neurodivergent.
It felt more to me like they were shocked that she HADNT figured it out immediately since it was obvious to them.
Also I wasnt implying Brooke is neurodivergent or saying anything about that. Just saying she’s not particularly quick on the uptake about things that are obvious.
She hit on it literally during the broadcast.
No. She hit on it several comics later actually. When Maxima was already back at ARCHON to deliver punishment to Harem and ream her over the coals verbally in the office with Ariana. And Heatwave didn’t actually hit on what happened – just that something weird was afoot. She had to be told by Amorphous afterwards what actually happened.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-70-punked/
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-77-shell-get-there-eventually/
Heatwave’s exact quote:
“I know you guys think I’m dumb, but check this. Maxima’s lips are naturally red, right? She doesn’t wear any lipstick – so how did she leave kissy marks on the guys?”
And even at that point, she hadnt figured it out because when Amorphous and Achilles returned, SHE STILL THOUGHT IT WAS MAXIMA.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-91-firecat-v-multicat/
Panel 4: Heatwave: “I’m gonna give that Maxima what for ‘fer kissing you. I don’t care how powerful she is. I’ll make all her soda room temperature before she can drink it or something.”
Maxima returned to base briefly in the middle of the interview, while Suzy a news was talking to Sydney.
Max then returned to the bank to retrieve Sydney.
The broadcast still in progress. Hence Harem’s question, “how much of a delay is on these,” immediately followed by Max appearing behind her.
Heatwave stuck with the Maxima theory because she lacked enough information to put something else in it’s place, but she clearly twigged to the fact that something wasn’t adding up, while events were ongoing.
But sure, let’s go with “Heatwave is dumb, hur dur.”
“The broadcast still in progress. Hence Harem’s question, “how much of a delay is on these,” immediately followed by Max appearing behind her.”
No. Look at the third link. Mr Amorphous and Achilles are back and she still hadnt figured it out. Then Amorphous tells her.
“But sure, let’s go with “Heatwave is dumb, hur dur.”
Why do you seem so angry about this? She’s slow on the uptake. Where did I say she’s dumb? Even DaveB hasnt said she’s dumb and said, word of god, that she’s just REALLY slow to figure things out.
First, show me where Dave ever described her as “slow”.
Second, “slow” is used in American common conversation as “the polite way” to say “to stupid/developmentally disabled to keep up with what’s going on.” It’s a clear pejorative, and insulting/demeaning, and I honestly doubt that a professional who literally relies on communication in the English language, in America, was not aware of this. Maybe you’re just that silo’ed in a technical language bubble, but I have a hard time believing that.
Third, Dave’s explicit description of Brook on his cast page is, “… she simply processes information in a different order a lot of the time…” That isn’t being “slow,” it’s just a different order. Like processing the idea of “automobile” as a contained power generator first, before thinking of it as a means of transport, or a way to impress potential dates. And there is utility in this; it means you’re likely to remember that you can take out the alternator & use it as an electrical generator, if you need to.
Am I making myself understood here? About why I’m generally pissy about this whole topic? Or do I need to find someone who isn’t as “slow” as I am to translate my “slow” thoughts to you “normal” people?
I think being deliberately obtuse comes with the profession.
Bharda:
“First, show me where Dave ever described her as “slow”.”
1) I said ‘slow on the uptake’
2) https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-77-shell-get-there-eventually/
Where DaveB says, SPECIFICALLY: “Heatwave just has a different, some would say SLOWER, method of processing data. Some would just say she’s dumb. But she can follow orders, fly, and her heat rays are formidable. She’s not going to lead her own squad, but she’s still a valuable asset.
I am literally just quoting the author, and I have not said she is dumb, because DaveB did not say outright that she is dumb – just that she is slow to process information. IE, slow on the uptake, Bharda. Stop getting angry about this please. You’re having an argument with no one.
“Second, “slow” is used in American common conversation as “the polite way” to say “to stupid/developmentally disabled to keep up with what’s going on.””
No, I’m literally saying she is slow on the uptake. It takes her longer to come to the same conclusion that others come to a lot faster, so in each instance where she is behind the others on figuring things out, she’s been TOLD by them, like when Amorphous had to explain that it wasn’t Maxima (Heatwave knew SOMETHING was off but couldnt figure it and realize it was a prank by Harem when others, like Anvil, figured it out immediately). She also has trouble with large words, like ‘necrotic.’ While she is not dumb, she is not above average intelligence either. She is slow to figure things out. And no, this is not a slang for dumb. I literally said that I did not say she was dumb. Slow to figure things out or ‘slow on the uptake’ is different than just saying ‘slow.’ It’s the difference between someone who needs to write out a simple math problem and someone who can figure it out in their heads much quicker.
“It’s a clear pejorative, and insulting/demeaning,”
No. It’s descriptive of the fact that it takes her longer to figure things out than other people. IE, she is slower to figure things out than other people. I’ve been pretty descriptive about my meaning so you don’t need to assume that I mean something other than what I explicitly have said.
“and I honestly doubt that a professional who literally relies on communication in the English language, in America, was not aware of this.”
I do rely on communication of the english language.
Which means I’m precise with my words and I do not use slang haphazardly. I rely on definitions, and if I do use anything that can be considered slang, I make sure to be specific about how the slang is being used. If I wanted to say Heatwave is dumb, I would have said heatwave is dumb. It’s not shorthand. They’re the same amount of letters. I’m not trying to spare Heatwave’s feelings by saying ‘slow’ instead of ‘dumb’ because (1) I did not say dumb, and (2) Heatwave is a fictional character who does not have feelings to hurt even if I had meant dumb… which… AGAIN… I clearly did not mean and stated what I meant.
Which means I rely on what the word ‘slow’ actually means – plus making sure that instead of just saying ‘slow’ by itself, I use ‘slow on the uptake’ or ‘slow to figure things out.’ Yes, she processes information differently. In that it takes her a longer time to process that information. She processes information SLOWER than others on the team. In comic #70, Anvil figured out the prank. By comic #77, Heatwave has just figured out that SOMETHING was weird. But by comic #91, she still had not figured out that what was weird was that it was not Maxima who did the kissy lipstick marks, let alone that it was Harem who did it as a prank on Maxima. By the definition, Heatwave did not figure it out as fast as Anvil. Anvil figured it out faster than Heatwave did (and actually she never did figure it out at all). Therefore, Heatwave was slower than Anvil to figure out what was going on (and in fact never did until Amorphous TOLD her).
” Maybe you’re just that silo’ed in a technical language bubble, but I have a hard time believing that.”
I’m not being ‘silo’ed’ in anything (I never heard the term ‘silo’ed’ before but I’m assuming you mean that I’m being trapped in a dictionary bubble or something). I literally had no reason to use slang though. You’re reading into things that are not there with my post, and you’re just getting yourself angry over something that NO ONE SAID.
“Third, Dave’s explicit description of Brook on his cast page is, “… she simply processes information in a different order a lot of the time…””
You left out the MIDDLE of that sentence that DaveB said.
‘Heatwave just has a different, SOME WOULD SAY SLOWER, method of processing data.’
THAT is what DaveB ‘explicitly’ said… not what you just quoted him describing for Heatwave’s thought process. You left out the part of the sentence that supports what I wrote. Or you glossed over it for some reason.
“Like processing the idea of “automobile” as a contained power generator first, before thinking of it as a means of transport, or a way to impress potential dates. And there is utility in this; it means you’re likely to remember that you can take out the alternator & use it as an electrical generator, if you need to.”
That would be an extremely cumbersome and SLOW way to relay information on something, not to mention not remotely exact to the information being relayed, when it’s easier to just say ‘automobile.’
“Am I making myself understood here?”
No, you really aren’t. I have no idea why you are getting so angry.
“About why I’m generally pissy about this whole topic?”
Again no. You havent ever struck me as someone who’s dumb. So no idea why you’re getting ‘pissy’ (your word not mine, I just say angry) over this, as if you’re thinking I called someone dumb and relating to that in a defensive manner.
“Or do I need to find someone who isn’t as “slow” as I am to translate my “slow” thoughts to you “normal” people?”
Why do you think that I, or anyone, thinks you’re ‘slow’ (ie, in the slang you’re using, dumb). In other posts you are going off about the Poetic Eddas of Norse mythology and no one (or at least not I) have been accusing you of being dumb, or ‘slow’ or ‘special’ or any other slang that CAN mean dumb by itself.
It just seems like you’re looking for a fight, but in order to get one you’ll need to assume I’m saying something I am not saying. To use a regular thing I say on this board, ‘you’re looking to strawman my post in order to argue against it.’
Torabi:
“I think being deliberately obtuse comes with the profession.”
Obtuse is technically more of a mean thing to say than ‘slow to understand’ because ‘slow to understand’ does not need to be a slur – it can be descriptive of a person’s thought process being… literally slower than others to understand a topic. Whereas obtuse, especially when coupled with ‘intentionally’ or ‘deliberately’… just like how you used it, directed at a person means ‘lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : stupid.’ according to the dictionary definition. If you were referring to an object, I’d just assume you meant blunt. I wouldn’t assume you meant the object is dumb.
Also not sure how being ‘obtuse’ is part of being an attorney. In fact, you probably should be pretty quick to pick up on things as an attorney if you want to know how to counter arguments made against your side. Law is about using words VERY specifically. Especially when making contracts, writing pleadings/briefs, or writing Opinions. People who are obtuse, deliberately or otherwise, do not make good attorneys unless all they do is relay on emotional appeals. Even then it’s usually not a good idea to be obtuse.
Yes, I _am_ taking this personally. And thank you, _SO_ much telling me that the fictional person is fiction. I _REALLY_ need that spoon fed to me. After all, it cannot possibly be anything other than an inability to distinguish reality that caused me to have an emotional reaction. Nothing at all, like, say, a strong identification with a character after being mocked all of my life for being “different,” and specifically for not prioritizing the same information as my peers, or society as a whole. Nope! Very definitely had to be me not being able to tell that fictional persons aren’t real, and that they have no actual feeling to be hurt.
Guess that’s just me being “slow on the uptake,” right?
Yes, I did in fact leave out the clauses “some people would say.” I had thought – being slow on the uptake as I am, after all – that it was understood to mean – specifically in conjunction with the primary, positive statement “simply processes things in a different order – that those “some people” were wrong. But again, I should have known better; if _I_ understood that one part of the complete statement was the primary assertion, clearly that had to be wrong. It’s my fault for not having someone better than me explain it so that I didn’t embarrass myself.
Just the same as I need to remember not to be upset or feel bad about something until I check to see if I’m supposed to feel that way. Wouldn’t want to be wrong about the feelings and responses I have to things, would I? That might be inconvenient for someone else!
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, which is usually a good indicator that it is time to walk away.
So that’s what I’m going to do now.
“Yes, I _am_ taking this personally.”
I have no idea why.
“And thank you, _SO_ much telling me that the fictional person is fiction. ”
Would you prefer if I say ‘Thank YOU so much for telling me what -I- mean by slow on the uptake, as if you know my mind better than I do?’ Instead, I explained what I said specifically and why it’s not the slur you’re claiming it is.
Can we stop being snippy? It’s not pleasant.
“I _REALLY_ need that spoon fed to me.”
You’re arguing as if I’m insulting a person for repeating something about a fictional character that the author said about that same fictional character. And I simply don’t get where all the anger is coming from. I’m not being that way with you.
“After all, it cannot possibly be anything other than an inability to distinguish reality that caused me to have an emotional reaction.”
No. I’m just pointing out you’re getting very angry over this. I’d rather we don’t fight about this since you’re getting angry over something that I literally did not even say.
“Nothing at all, like, say, a strong identification with a character after being mocked all of my life for being “different,” and specifically for not prioritizing the same information as my peers, or society as a whole. ”
I would find it surprising if anyone ever referred to you as ‘slow on the uptake.’ You don’t strike me that way. Not to mention I have not treated you that way, so I’m not sure why you’re attacking me for the behavior of others in your past. A past which I’m completely unaware of, since what I know of you is entirely based on this forum, not your personal life outside of what you’ve said on the forum.
“Guess that’s just me being “slow on the uptake,” right?”
You are really looking for a reason to fight with me for some reason. This is perplexing. Where have I said anything about YOU being ‘slow on the uptake?’ Where have I made any pointed insults at you at all? How often have I made personal insults at ANYONE? The only thing I’ve said about you this entire time is that you are getting angry over nothing. You’re getting angry over things that I have NOT said.
Please calm down.
“Yes, I did in fact leave out the clauses “some people would say. I had thought – being slow on the uptake as I am, after all – that it was understood to mean – specifically in conjunction with the primary, positive statement “simply processes things in a different order – that those “some people” were wrong.”
You are conflating two sentences together. The ‘Some people would say she is dumb’ is the part where it’s implied that she is not dumb, because of the former sentence – that she processes information differently – SLOWER. The overall implication is she processes information slower than average, but that does not mean that she is dumb. Just different.
“if _I_ understood that one part of the complete statement was the primary assertion, clearly that had to be wrong. It’s my fault for not having someone better than me explain it so that I didn’t embarrass myself.”
You literally said to show you where DaveB said that she is slow. So I first corrected you by saying I never said that DaveB said she was slow – but that she is slow on the uptake. That she thinks things through slower than other people. And so I showed where he said that. Hence I am explaining it… because you asked me to. Not so that you won’t embarrass yourself.
“Just the same as I need to remember not to be upset or feel bad about something until I check to see if I’m supposed to feel that way. Wouldn’t want to be wrong about the feelings and responses I have to things, would I? That might be inconvenient for someone else!”
No, but it’s generally not emotionally healthy to get this upset over something that no one even said. It isnt conducive to a friendly argument, and it definitely isnt going to make you feel better – just angrier.
“I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, which is usually a good indicator that it is time to walk away.
So that’s what I’m going to do now.”
Okay, that seems like a healthy thing to do. I’m sorry if I’ve upset you though. It was not my intention.
See, this is what I mean by “deliberately obtuse”. If people don’t use exactly the right words, you pretend not to understand what they’re saying. You deflect and claim innocence, that whoever said something hurtful couldn’t have possibly meant it to be. You just blame the person who’s been hurt for interpreting it that way. You rely on technicalities of language to avoid communication. You never see an aggressor, just a self-inflicted victim.
I’m guessing most people could figure out what has caused Bharda to respond this way, even though it does come as a complete surprise. But I’ll spell it out for you:
Bharda strongly identifies with Heatwave, because she’s been mocked all her life for being “different”, albeit in contexts other than the comments section here. She has apparently been called “slow on the uptake”, or at least something similar, and so a character she identifies with being treated the same way triggers a sympathetic response, and dredges up painful memories. This isn’t something any of us could have known, but that doesn’t prevent Bharda from feeling hurt all the same. So she’s lashing out, not at what you or anyone else here has said to her or about her, but at those memories. She’s reacting defensively, assuming that if you’ll say one set of trigger words, that the rest of the associated attacks might very well follow.
“See, this is what I mean by “deliberately obtuse”.”
I’m not being obtuse. And you’re being pretty much like Oberon used to be – insulting.
“If people don’t use exactly the right words, you pretend not to understand what they’re saying.”
No. If people use words as slang and I’m using words as intended, I do not let people tell me that I’m using words as slang. ESPECIALLY if I’m not even using those words in the first place. Other people do not tell me what I mean by MY words. I am capable of explaining myself without you or anyone else telling me what I mean.
“You deflect and claim innocence, that whoever said something hurtful couldn’t have possibly meant it to be.”
DaveB referring to Heatwave as ‘processing information differently, that is slower than normal’ is not hurtful to Bharda or anyone else. It’s not even hurtful to Heatwave (DaveB’s own fictional character for the comic). If anything, it’s going out of his way to say that she is NOT dumb.
“You just blame the person who’s been hurt for interpreting it that way.”
I have not blamed anyone for anything. IF someone ELSE brings up something, then argues against what THEY brought up, but I did not bring up, they are arguing with THEMSELVES, not me.
“You rely on technicalities of language to avoid communication.”
No. I am exact with my words in order to promote proper communication, and to prevent people… like you… from accusing me of things that I did not say. You do not control what my words mean, especially when I am using words properly and explicitly quoting other people (in this case, DaveB’s description).
“You never see an aggressor, just a self-inflicted victim.”
I have never once called Bharda a victim. I’ve been complimentary of her multiple times.
“Bharda strongly identifies with Heatwave, because she’s been mocked all her life for being “different”, albeit in contexts other than the comments section here.”
Heatwave processes information differently, some might say slowly. This is specifically what DaveB said. This has nothing to do with Bharda, and my using that description is in no way an attack at Bharda. I have literally nothing bad or insulting to say about Bharda, despite us probably having a significantly different view on economics.
“She has apparently been called “slow on the uptake”, or at least something similar, and so a character she identifies with being treated the same way triggers a sympathetic response, and dredges up painful memories.”
1) Slow on the uptake does not mean dumb. And I’m literally using DaveB’s own description to describe HEATWAVE. Not Bharda. Bharda has never stuck me as slow, slow on the uptake, or any variation thereof. And even if a person did, I wouldnt go out of my way to insult them about it because I don’t go out of my way to insult people on a webcomic forum. Again to reiterate though – I do not consider Bharda in any way slow, slow on the uptake, or dumb. Quite the opposite, I think she is rather intelligent. If she has had other people in the life say otherwise, that has nothing to do with me and I’m the wrong target of her anger. I have not been fighting with her in this thread at all – I have been responding to what she asks me, and continually been asking to NOT fight. I’m great with arguments. Arguments can be productive exchanges. But I don’t like fights. Fights are not productive exchanges.
“This isn’t something any of us could have known, but that doesn’t prevent Bharda from feeling hurt all the same.”
And I feel bad that she’s gotten upset about this. It’s clearly not my intention to upset her. But I can’t know her history, and if she asks me a question like ‘where did DaveB say something’ and I have a link and a quote, I will respond rather than ignore.
“So she’s lashing out, not at what you or anyone else here has said to her or about her, but at those memories.”
I can see that she’s lashing out. And I can see that it’s not about anything I’ve said to her or about her, but I shouldnt be the target in these posts of her anger or her making assumptions of what my words mean when I’m so exact in what my words do ACTUALLY mean.
“She’s reacting defensively,”
Clearly. But I’m not attacking her. She was reacting defensively to attacks that she made about herself. Attacks which I don’t even consider valid, since 1) I did not call her dumb, slow, slow on the uptake, or anything related to that, and 2) I don’t even think she IS dumb, slow, slow on the uptake, or anything related to that. She was arguing with herself. Not with me.
“assuming that if you’ll say one set of trigger words, that the rest of the associated attacks might very well follow.”
I used the term ‘slow on the uptake’ because DaveB used ‘processes information differently, some may say slower.’ Literally has nothing to do with Bharda whatsoever.
The long and short of this is DaveB described Heatwave as someone who processes information slowly, and her actions in the comic show that she processes information slower than most other people. But that is not to say that she is dumb. She’s capable of following orders, etc (again this is something else that DaveB said about HEATWAVE – it has nothing to do with Bharda and no implication about Bharda). She has trouble with some words like ‘necrotic’ and it takes a little while until she realizes others are taking a verbal jab at her (Harem, Achilles). And it takes her long enough to try to figure things out on her own that it’s easier for others to just tell her outright.
I do not consider ‘slow on the uptake’ to be a trigger word. Largely because it’s not directed at Bharda, and not being used in any way as an insult – it’s being used as a benign description used by the author specifically to say that Heatwave is NOT dumb, just slower to process info. It’s the opposite of an insult, PLUS directed at someone else entirely. A fictional person, in fact.
Can we please end this very tiresome thread now? I never expected that responding about what happened with Harem’s prank on Maxima, using DaveB’s own words, would get this convoluted and unnecessarily adversarial.
No one is saying Heatwave is dumb, she is smart, just processes things differently (like Sydney does, in a different different way)
(to be honest I wasnt even saying she’s smart OR dumb. Just that she’s slow on the uptake to figure stuff out, which is how DaveB described it)
A far less creepy appearance indeed.
Oh I disagree!
Wearing stripes after Labor Day? How incredibly creepy!!! Bring back the cyclopian huge mouth with misshapen teeth instead. :)
The hood on the double-breasted suit coat is the real monstrosity here.
Goon Squad (Ted) is just average. His copies don’t get ‘dumber’, but they are more easily ‘distracted’ if they aren’t focused on one thing. Good for being a mundane minion, not so great for when you want a bunch of people capable of independent thought who can react intelligently to a rapidly changing situation.
Also, the clones know they’re disposable, so they probably don’t think too hard about life-threatening events.
Bet the deaths still hurt, even if it’s a phantom pain
Hopefully her shape-shifting is fast, it would really come in handy if being pursued, and if tracking someone in a crowd.
Loki and Coyote were not “males”
Loki is canonically gender-fluid.
And gave birth at least twice.
Tom Hiddleston sure seems like a male to me. :)
Loki could shape-shift as well as project illusions. He/she/it could be anything they wanted at any time just most film goers would expect it to be a him. Any shape-shifter has no real gender, just what the mood or need strikes.
“Any shape-shifter has no real gender”
That sounds like an overbroad assumption, not shown in the actual movies, TV show, and comics.
I think that the point in the Loki show of Sylvie was that, in the MCU, Loki is a man in the normal timeline. Sylvie was removed from the timeline by the TSA because she was a woman instead of a man. They literally say that in the show. Sylvie literally says that in the show about herself.
And before anyone makes a comment about ‘the mythological Loki’ (which I believe was also male as his default form, and referred to as a male in all norse stories), my post was about Tom Hiddleston (Loki in the MCU) because I was making a joke.
“just most film goers would expect it to be a him.”
Because, in the MCU and in Marvel comics, Loki from Earth-616 is male. Hence film goers would expect Loki to be a him. Since that’s what Loki is in the comics and what he’s presented as in the movies and TV show.
Just like people think of Mystique as a woman because…. she has always been depicted as a woman in the comics and movies, despite being a shapeshifter.
(although she was once depicted as a smurf, admittedly, who wears the skulls of the smurfs that tried to bring her back to the village against her will as a belt/decoration)
https://i.redd.it/epq4synfnb671.png
PS how do I make a link look like a normal sentence hyperlink, anyone know?
PPS – if you were talking about Skrulls, then you’d be correct – they are shapeshifters as well and have no set gender, as shown by Xavin in Runaways, who goes from being male to being female when Karolina says she wouldnt be attracted to Xavin as a man (since she’s a lesbian), and Xavin spells out that skrulls don’t have a ‘set’ gender as a default.
Test
Interesting.
I keep getting an “error” message when I go to post my actual reply.
The ninja hackers are doing their job to prevent you from making a punned response.
Btw I need to make a few corrections to my post.
1) It’s the TVA not TSA. (Time Variance Authority) – sorry!
2) Sylvie is stated by Sylvie herself as being a variant because she was born female on Asgard, which went against the Sacred Timeline. She was also canonically stated in the show to be a woman, as opposed to Loki from 616, who was a man, based on their names. In Norse naming, the names tend to use the last name as the father + either dottir or son added to the end of it. Hence why Loki is referred to as Loki Laufeyson (and then after he was adopted by Odin, Loki Odinson), while Sylvie was originally Loki Laufeydottir (renamed Sylvie Laufeydottir by herself while on the run from the TVA). At least according to the Marvel wiki and ‘Den of Geek.’ Also I think she was renamed Sylvie because Sylvie was the original name of the second Enchantress (after Amora).
(In actual mythology, Loki’s name was Loki Laufeyjarson and was the son of Farbauti and Laufey, and a blood brother of Odin instead of his adopted son, but my post was mainly about the Marvel version because my joke was centered around Tom Hiddleston)
We’ve been over hyperlinks before. Let’s see if I can get the code to display right the first time:
<a href=”link goes here”>text goes here</a>
Thank you! I’ll save it on my computer this time.
Yups, that’s one of the few codes have managed to remember :)
And, as for Mystique, fairly sure she had a child with that blind seer
She and Destiny adopted and raised Rogue together
Rogue was adopted. I think Nightcrawler is her biological son, if I recall correctly.
Wasn’t talking about Rogue, or Kurt
But yes, Kurt is her biological son, that she birthed, was talking about a child she fathered
Oh okay. I wasn’t aware that happened. :)
Who did she father?
Can’t remember, just remember they had a relationship where Raven was the male (rather than having some other donor)
Who was the biological son? Maybe I can google to find out based on that.
It was intended at one point that Mystique was assigned male at birth, and basically transitioned once her shapeshifting ability kicked in. Basically she would have been Kurt’s biological father and Destiny his birthmother
If what you said is accurate (and I think I recall something about that but not sure if its canon or fanfic), then that’s a bit of inconsistency in the marvel universe since the mutant gene does not activate until puberty.
I knew you were joking, I just felt in this case the actual Viking god was being brought up and the stories written at the time more than half gods were male. It was the one’s writing the stories that decided that. For all we knew IF they existed they were all gender-less, able to create their children by willing them into life. Having sex for such a being would be a toy, nothing more, something to help pass the time they seemed to have an unlimited amount of…
Everything that I know about vikings are from either Marvel or Assassins Creed, so I am not about to start arguing in depth about rl norse mythology for this. :)
Sophia Di Martino is very much not, though.
Very true. Although wasn’t the point of why her character was taken by the TSA that Loki is -supposed- to be male and by her being female, she was not in line with the approved timeline set up by Kang? Because she was the only Loki who was a female?
I think Loki has recently been retroconned to not be male, in the Marvel universe. I don’t recall any references to him being gender fluid in the Elder Edda. Coyote I’m not so familiar with.
In some tales Loki turned into a mare to lure the work horse away so that the builder of the walls of Asgard could not finish on time and not get paid. Loki returned later with Sleipnir, with the implication that he was the mother. Odin and Thor had Loki be the prankster a number of times to get out of paying. Mjollnir resulted with a short handle due to Loki’s efforts on behalf of Odin and Thor to get out of paying for its creation.
While Loki had a wife, Angerboda, some stories imply that Hel, Fenrir, and Jormungand were not just his children, but that he gave birth to them as well.
Fair enough, I hadn’t read the Eldas since my college days.
In myth, Loki plays female on several occasions, and I believe does give birth while nominally female, as Illy suggested. Not a huge fan of Norse mythology (Odin is a stinker, even by pantheistic standards) so I can’t recall details.
Odin and Loki were both male and female. Odin is specifically said to dress in women’s clothing and do “women’s magic”. Loki, of course, was mother to Odin’s horse and Odin calls him out on it in one of the Iceland Sagas in a tale where Loki was pointing out other god’s mistakes at a feast.
Yeah, in the Lokasenna (aka the “you’re at the bottom of a hole, put down the shovel, Loki” poem), Loki is mocking the other Aesir and Vanir at a party he wasn’t invited to attend. He calls out Odin for, among other things, wearing women’s clothing and practicing seidr (traditionally female-only magic), and Odin’s response is basically “at least I didn’t get boned by a horse and give birth to a foal.” Since the Aesir didn’t have microphones, I assume he dropped Thrudstok right after he said that.
Realy? The Aesir turning to him for help when Thor needed to be a woman for awhile and Loki giving birth to multiple different beings strongly suggests ‘he’ doesnt fit the typical ‘he’ stereotypes. Those are just off the top of my head, I imagine theres more. Oh, when ‘he’ was a ‘she’ giant that refused to aid Freya get Baldr back. Theres another that occured as I was typing.
I like how it sounds like you didn’t just think of it while typing, but that Loki did that while you were typing so you had to add it. (tricksters gonna trick)
The origin of Sleipnir: Loki talked the Asgardians into agreeing to a bet with a giant(?) that he couldn’t build a wall around Asgard within a certain time limit. When it looked like they were going to lose the bet, Loki shapeshifted into a female horse to distract the horse the builder was using to haul supplies. The gods won the bet, Loki came back pregnant and gave birth to Sleipnir.
In addition to the other excellent points, it should be noted that genderqueer people in general were considered holy in Nordic tradition, and often associated with Loki. Of course, all of this could be avoided with an Eris name drop.
Eris is the goddess of discord, not mischief/trickery.
Max could have said Kitsune, most people usually think of a woman when bring them up.
The legends are also of ‘evil fox women’, not just tricksters, so not a good example. Kitsune have gotten a much more friendly interpretation in anime-land, but in the tales, they are generally malevolent.
I did not know about Coyote, cool.
I don’t know if it’s too late to change the next page and if it can fit but I think it would actually be worth it to put in a little comment of someone correcting Maxima there. Representation matters and although you Dave are far from the worst offender you are also not an especially good example either.
And even if you must insist on using their masculine typical portrayals, Eris is right there.
Loki has been female, pregnant, and a horse. Sometimes all at once.
Yes.. But at the same time he was referred to as Thor’s (step/foster/blood) brother, Odin’s son, and he was married to a woman. He was generally very much a male.
It was the Jötunn bit in him that allowed him to pull all the stuff he did, as for Jötunn gender/biological sex is pretty much optional. But quite real if they decide on one.
Thor’s brother? Not Odin’s brother? I think you’re getting your Marvel mixed in with your Eddas.
Neither. Not only is Loki unrelated to Thor, he is also not related to Odin. Loki is the offspring of Farbauti and Laufey (Nal). Thor is the son of Odin and Jord.
Loki is Odin’s adopted/blood brother, not by birth, but it still counts.
I didn’t know about Ate. Entertaining AND educational. Plus I have a new nickname for Wife.
Awesome.
I use Uxor on occasion, and sometimes Uxasperation, but not for my own wife as I am not married. There might be a connection between the two…
I did a quick lookup and found that eight-ay is what comes after seven in Canada.
(maybe a little too quick)
Take off, ya hoser.
Ate is an interesting one the goddess embodiment of “hold my beer and watch this.”
“No shit, there I was…”
Yay! Chimyriad is finally in the Who’s Who. :)
She always was, you just couldn’t see her
I was hoping we would after her introduction. She does strike me like a Greek Goddess statue.
“AAR” Anti Aggression Restraint?
Hm, what would that be? Shaped charge ear plugs? Whispering “Behave or I explode” on a loop?
Back in my misanthropic teen years, when I was planning on taking over the world, (Literally voted “most likely to become a mad scientist and take over the world” in my HS yearbook.) my go-to was going to be explosive sinus implants that included 2 way radios to watch over the subject and issue orders. With watchdog timers so they’d go off if they lost radio contact for too long or detected any effort to defuse them.
Nothing quite like a shaped charge inside your head pointed at your brain to keep a person in line, I always say. Nothing else quite says “Behave or else” with the same authority.
After Action Report
After Action Report
After Action Report, I’d guess.
I like my AAR better; This guy IS going to wake up at some point, right?
But, yeah, you’re probably right.
ASMAAR :) :) *whispers in surround~nibble* “behave, sweetling, be a good, sweet, little pet, and you’ll get a lovely, luscious treat. I won’t explode.”
Explodey devices in the head, pretty much like what you describe, are used by a cabal to control people roped into their service in the novel “Reflex” by Steven Gould. It’s a sequel to “Jumper” (about a guy who discovers he can teleport), which was a great novel and a forgettable 2008 movie that retained mostly just the title and character names.
I would say that Loki is more genderfluid than male. But still more male than female so… point taken.
On other things, I always tend to shapeshifters if I can. The more quicksilvery, the better. Disgracefully, most sistems underpower them on purpose.
That’s why I love Exalted’s Lunars.
Entry level lunar: I can outweight almost every other fisical fighter in low levels, still being mayoraly social and having the ability to be almost any human. [Still, for a specific human I must hunt them specifically. But that’s another thing]
TBF, Exalted is just the kind of setting where *everybody* kicks ass from day one. A martial artist character can begin play with an item called a god-kicking boot *because that is what the boot is for.*
What is that weird background rectangle around heatwave in panel 3?
Window, I believe.
A window?
Window. They’re in a sort of underground atrium.
I still remain disappointed someone tough enough to brawl with Stalvart still somehow had skin thin enough to be defeated by a needle.
this is the way it is with bullies supposedly. they can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
I like how Chimyriad, like the other women on the team, enjoy needling Maxima over her militant feminism.
Also, as both Jen and Neon5162 pointed out… Loki’s gender is more fluid than a can of soda.
Not “needling,” just…some very, very gentle, friendly advice.
Oof. I love Greek Mythology and didn’t even rememeber that goddess.
I’ve always liked Eris. Strife and discord, with a super chaotic apple.
Ate` is pretty obscure reference, but Max is an alpha feminist. I knew the Greeks had an analog of Loki, just not who it was. The Greeks had SO many gods and the Romans copied(?) many of them.
Roman religion and English vocabulary have much in common, both stole freely from others.
Interestingly, the Romans held that Loki was syncretic with Mercury. Which raises a few interesting questions about the errand boy of Olympus.
I thought the Roman Empire was around like 1500 years before the Vikings.
There is something about the winged helms that makes me think they may have had the same fashion designer.
I thought it was just that one Gaul* who wore a winged helmet, even his peers wore horned hats.
I just looked it up to make sure I wasn’t imagining things based on my Assassin’s Creed knowledge.
Yeah, the Vikings existed LONG after the Roman Empire and their Pantheon had crumbled, so I’m not sure how the Romans could have known about Loki. I did some googling so anyone who knows more about ACTUAL myths please correct me if I’m wrong but:
The first mention of Loki is in the ‘Prose Edda in Chapter 20 of the book of Gylfaginning’ and from what I googled, that came out circa 1220 CE.
The Roman Empire, on the other hand, dates back to between 625 BCE and 476 CE. And the Roman Pantheon stories predated the fall of the Roman Empire, since a lot of the Roman Pantheon was based on the earlier Greek Pantheon.
So I’m not sure how the Romans could have known anything about Loki for a comparison with Mercury, unless there was perhaps an EARLIER version of Loki which I’m not aware of.
ADMITTEDLY, it’s possible that there WAS an earlier version which I’m not aware of. In other posts made, Bharda admittedly showed and likely knows a lot more than me on ancient cultures because I had to google stuff like “Þrymskviða” to find out that it was a poem from the Poetic Edda (then I had to google to find out what the Poetic Edda was). Soooo…. if anyone could explain the apparent discrepancy I’d be interested in finding out?
I was thinking more along the lines of the Roman and Greek pantheons influencing the Norse one. They do have quite a few thematic similarities.
Yeah that would make more sense to me.
Specially after The Raids reached what remained of the Roman Empire
Everyone focuses so much on “the Vikings,” that they completely forget that there was a culture which preceded them.
We look now, to what Rome remembers as Germania.
The Germanic tribal peoples were the predecessors of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden, among others. They also originated the religious practices that would become Asatru. As Romans settled Germania & assimilated her tribes, they continued their standard practice of syncretism. Some things mapped well, such as parallels between the Jötun/Lotnar and the Titans & Gigantes. Other, not so much. Wotan (Odin) was the divine patriarch, but Danor (Thor), his son was the God of Thunder etc. Freja maps to Hera without too much trauma, but Loki doesn’t have a clear opposite number among the Olympians.
I literally didn’t realize there was a theology that existed there over a millenium beforehand. Very cool! That also explains things. Thanks.
PS – in this pre-existing theology what was Loki called out of curiosity?
On a related note they just advertised to everyone watching that they have a super secret shapeshifter.
Everyone still conscious, that is.
Or watching the base security feeds remotely from a secure location.
I’m sort of surprised that Maxima didn’t just say Apate (greek goddess of deceit) or Eris (aka Discord), the Greek Goddess of discord, strife, self-expression and rebellion. :) Both were considered trickster goddesses.
Plus Chimyriad looks similar to the actress that played Eris in Hercules The Legendary Journeys (Meighan Desmond).
I have thought this for many years but the lives of the greek gods would make for a good soap opera. I don’t think it would work if you tried to ‘modernize’ it, but most of the story boarding has already been done.
WOULD? I though they WERE soap opera. Ancient Greek theatre was pretty big.
There’re two comics based on that, Lore Olympus on Webtoons, and Pomegranite on SlipShine (Pomegranite is slightly porny and behind a paywall.
If it were me possible names might include The Olympians, Scions of Aeons, The Ancient and the Egotistical, Smiting Light, General Mayhem, The Golden Archers, As the Loom Weaves, Golden Apple Falls, The Edge of the World, The Young Nereids, All My Offspring, or maybe as a reality series, The Real Housewives of Olympus.
Puns are life.
Chimyriad reminds me a bit of Romulan Peyton List.
I don’t really see it, but probably mainly because Peyton’s a blonde and her eyes look different. But that’s just me. :)
My girl Eris is feeling seriously overlooked here.
Also, let’s be honest here. Loki is only sometimes a male example.
Well maybe she`s more proud of her daughter than annoyed because of overlooked?
Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!
Best illusionist tricks: pit covered with an obvious illusion of… a pit; pit covered with illusory ground, beyond solid ground covered by bad illusion of solid ground; invisible wall beyond open pit.
Yups: an almost obvious illusion or trap hiding the real trap or illusion, so they avoid the fake illusion and fall right in the real illusion :)
Can’t wait for this chump to wake up and and find out exactly how much trouble he’s in. Also if he ever meets Deus,I think he’s a dead man and so is his group,because of what they tried against Max and Sydney.
Yikes. Vertical stripes.
(It doesn’t show in the comic, but the stripes are moving.)
Well of course they’re moving. Chimyriad can’t shapeshift clothes, so that’s actually her skin.
Yes, she’s naked. Will this be the March or April Vote incentive?
You’re making an awful lot of assumptions. <_<
Yeah, the clothing question gets scary when you realise she was “captured” wearing Zephan’s attire but reduced down to a singlet in the torture room. We also saw tendrils starting to form out of the singlet when she started attacking.
But for them to not notice anything when they removed the gown, I suspect she must be able to create clothing out of her biological mass and shed it without it turning back to blob matter such as with The Thing. Quite likely she’s making such things out of organic matter such as cotton or silk, so they just continue as they are.
…She might even be better than Ashley / Iron Cloth at clothing if this is the case, since she could presumably transform into the exact person requiring the clothing, create the clothing on their body and adjust it to fit perfectly then simply shed it and hand it over.
Whatever the case, if I’m right and she’s actually making full, real clothing out of her bio mass then she’s not technically naked… But she is able to re-absorb it which is scary if she can do that to other biomass… The two who were torturing her might be fully missing a good deal of their flesh.
*happy chibi noises!*
Ah…now someone is asking cogent questions.
*very, very wrong grinning with too many teeth and visible tongue-things*
Do you think that Sydney’s yellow comm orb is able to see your true form regularly, like she can see through X’s invisibility? Or is it more like a disguise (like what Peggy quizzed Sydney on before going to the Fusion restaurant) which Sydney can’t see through?
Interesting question. I’d say that the Comm Orb would just see Chimi as whatever she’s physically shaped into, since its physiological rather than illusionary. Considering we also saw a couple of other filter options with the Comm Ball, it might be more accurate to say that it displays magical auras and details about them or such.
Peggy showed it can’t see through physical disguises so unless Chimi’s abilities have a magical trait to them that the Comm ball might pick an Aura up from, Chimi’s probably better at getting past Sydney than X
I have a feeling that Chimyriad has eaten clothes and can reassemble them. I don’t think she just mimics other materials with flesh, but actually manipulates matter.
I second the April votcentive of Chimyriad, possibly with Sydney bumping into her chest and saying she felt a nipple. Because, why not? If that’s her skin and she’s running around naked with clothing-colored skin, why shouldn’t she feel like a naked woman?
Shape. Shifter. Not illusionist. Also, per the above, Chimmy seems to have some objections.
I was thinking more Eris before any of those other gods, (besides never hearing of até)
Wow, Maxima really has an extremely fragile ego if she’d rather use an obscure reference rather than a well-known one simple because of gender
“Only a raging egotist would introduce new information to people,” said the weirdly invested internet rando.
Some people feel insulted when faced with the existence of information they did not already know. Because they already know everything important, and if they don’t know something, then it’s not important, and everyone else should just forget about it.
Actually (adjusts nerd glasses) Loki is pan-gender/pan-sexual. In Norse myth, Loki usually presented as a man, but was sometimes a woman and sometimes various animals of whatever gender. Loki has even given birth at least once that I am aware of (to a horse).
Female prankster gods off the top of my head: Eris, Apate, Ate
Prankster gods who pick and choose as to their (apparent) gender: Loki, Coyote, Kitsune
and probably a lot more
Ďajku, from Nganasan mythology, would be another example of the latter. They prefer just being an Arctic fox of ambiguous gender, though.
Excuse, Max, Loki is genderfluid XD Also I don’t know if it’s just me but man, even her ‘usual’ face looks just a little off… in an excellent way!
I LOVE the smile and wave in panel two background. So adorable.
Makes me think she may be happy-go-lucky, which would make her career choice interesting if true!
Dave: “Don’t expect people to pick up what you’re laying down if they need to Google it first.”
Also Dave: “Everybody knows what A.A.R. means, right?”
Fun times. XD
In all fairness, A.A.R. is pretty much universal in all US military forces. In-Universe, there’s no way anyone there *wouldn’t* know what it meant in this context. (At least the officers). Though I have to admit I’m surprised he has one ready to go minutes after the fight was finished.
Sooooooooo …. is anyone in the comments going to say what A.A.R. means? :)
After Action Report.
Thank you.
I think the characters also referred to AARs by name a couple times after the restaurant battle and Alar excursion, but not feeling like an archive dive for references just now.
We also used A.A.R. when reviewing incidents of violent behavior at the maximum security psychiatric hospital where I worked. Some of our higher level administrators were retired military doctors so there may have been some cross over.
Oh? Where did Dave say those things?
Characters he wrote said those things, but authors can write characters with different beliefs from their own.
Not gonna hold it in: panel two Chimmy? CUTE!!!!! Wanna give her a hug, a limpet-hug :)
When I first read A.A.R. I thought it might have been a nice ‘subtle’ Empowered reference.. Advanced Restraint Research.
Then I realize I’m just stupid and can’t actually read properly. :D
As a model railroader and railfan the obvious meaning to me is American Association of Railroads. They set various standards used across the industry, among other things.
Considering how she shifted her clothes around I wonder how long it’ll be until someone asks about her being probably necked?
Chymiriad is the perfect cameo character, they could be anyone in the background and you would never knooooooow
I thought Eris was the greek goddess of mischief? The one who pranked the other goddesses by creating a golden apple with “For the fairest” written on it?
This. I’ve never heard of Até.
Discord, not mischief. Things had to end with everybody at each other’s throats for her to be happy, mischief was just a means to that end.
What, exactly, is the difference?
mischief can be entertaining and fun, a rebellion against rules that comes to no harm but entertains. Mischievous is often an affectionate description.
Discord? Discord literally means ‘not getting along together’. So Eris is the goddess of literal disharmony, which can also end up quite violently.
Also, how is everyone forgetting Raven? The true Trickster god of the Amerinds is Raven, who also happens to be wise. Coyote gets all the press because he’s a foolish fellow who keeps screwing up!
As far as Raven goes, you must first be smart to be a smartass. Coyote has better Youtube videos, i.e. ”Hold my tiswin and watch this.”
“I’m not Batman, but I could be!”
Bruce Wayne’s t-shirt: I’m not Batman
Batman’s t-shirt: I’m not Batman either
Plastic Man’s t-shirt: I’m Wonder Woman, wanna see my tits?
Chi is cool, and I think she’s cute (if that’s her “real” appearance).
And I for one am very glad that Suck Hole has finally shut up. He and Deuce (a low card) are tiresome in the extreme.
I’d like to see:
Team mate, to Chimy: “Is that your real appearance?”
Chimy: “I don’t have a real appearance.”
O_O
Well, if you want to really know…
“While ‘Reality’ is essentially objective, how you engage with it is not. So you have to start by deciding what you are engaging with, and how, and why. If you find my face attractive, is it more real, for having your approval, or less, because you know it’s a choice on my part? Or, switching again, is more real *because* of my choice, my exercise of will, or less real, because your approval exists against a background grid of social and biological information involving symmetry and reproductive cues? Try not to think about it too hard, or you’ll miss the forest for the trees. The point is, ‘real’ is an experience that happens where perception and perceived collide. You have choices in that space. How you choose to engage that experience, is where you’ll find the answer to your question.”
*cheerfully hands over a plate of corned beef & potatoes w/ cheddar-mustard sauce*
A sudden tangential detour – @Chimyriad, I would like to create the character article at the GrrlPower wiki that I’ve been building ( https://grrlpowercomic.fandom.com/wiki/Grrlpowercomic_Wiki ). I was thinking about panel 4 or 6 from this comic as the profile image, or perhaps the last panel from https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1103-interrorgation/ – but I’d much prefer to use your preference. Is there anything that particularly sticks out to you as a good profile image?
I’m not opposed, as long as Dave is cool with it, and you get your info direct from the text. Yes, I am the source of the original character info, but as I’ve already made clear with him, everything gets filtered and adapted for the Grrlverse. This is his house.
I might suggest waiting until you have a few more headshots to pick from, tho! ^_^’
Sounds good to me. And no worries about outside sources being brought in – at least as far as information that I am including in the wiki, only comic pages and word-of-Dave comments are brought in. If you get the urge to do so, it’d be wonderful if you’d swing by your page to double-check my work. https://grrlpowercomic.fandom.com/wiki/Chimyriad
This may have been addressed at some point in the past but how would Chimyriad be pronounced? Hard or soft CH?
I read her name as a Portmanteau between Chimera and Myriad. My headcanon is that she can absorb biomatter ala Prototype’s Alex Mercer. So if I’ve got that right it would be /kīˈmirēəd/
Definitely getting warmer.
Also, correct pronunciation!
The other placeholder that I’ve sometimes used to mentally fill-in-the-blank has been Sevink from the defunct Geist Panik comic ( http://www.geist-panik.com ) – a Wendigo/Cannibal who has achieve Critical Flesh.
Really doesn’t matter how the Myriad-portion of the name is exactly manifested, I’m here for it. I’ve said before, one of my favorite tropes is the variation of Anti-Hero where the protagonists have to work hard to keep an affable, terrifying monster pointed in the direction of the bad guys. “Yeah, that one’s a horrifying abomination, but dammit they’re OUR horrifying abomination!”
That is how I was pronouncing it in my head but it would be cute if Chimmy as pronounced as shimmy with a soft sh.
More likely to get “Chim, chimney, chim, chimney, chim, chim, cherooOOOH MY GOD NO YEEEEEEAGH RUN!”
Voting for more Disney-GrrlPower mashups.
I would gleefully pony up some cash to watch Max, having been temporarily damseled by her own hubris, trapped in a Disney Princess Set Piece, with the trick to freeing herself being her giving a full-throated Princess Song, completely with Little Critter accompaniment, and lots of performative swaying, sighing, swooning, and sashaying.
Real Mister Mxyzptlk stuff. X’D
…and making sure it somehow gets recorded & passed around the office, later on.
Oh! And have Sydles deliver a Villain Song.
Actually, let’s just make this a whole thing, with the standard issue cosmic goofball antagonist deciding that their next multidimensional blockbuster family friendly franchise is basic a Disney Classic, with various Archon members cast in the roles.
Max gets Damseled Female Lead because of course, Sydles gets caught up in the moment and volunteers to be the Villain, aided by Harem in the role of the Villain’s Dragon, Dabbles gets stuck as Princess Maxine’s Adorable Animal Companion, Heatwave, Achilles & Mr. A become the Demi-human Comedic Sidekicks, Stalwart as the Hero’s Trusty Steed, Hiro as The Hero of another story tangentially intersecting this one for purpose of being the mentor to Our Hero, played by Leon because of course we want the skinny geek. OH! And Math as The Hero’s magic animate sword that is infinitely better at fighting than he is, obviously. X’D
No threats or “real danger,” but the antagonist refuses to release our intrepid players until satisfied with the production. OH! OH! And Big ad stuck as the disembodied narrator/chorus & writer! Technically omnipotent, but still stuck trying to satisfy our interdimensional impresario, and thus not in control.
Aaaaand, go!
Tons of great material here, and plenty of comedy to be had in inverting or lampshading the tropes. It’s been cathartic to watch Disney lampoon its own princess tropes in more recent movies, especially with the self-aware theme songs. Enchanted did it well, Rapunzel was more subtle about it but still fun. Ralph Breaks the Internet went all-in with the princess meetup scene and theme song.
Section 31 was a lot cooler back when we could pretend that they were an illegitimate rogue organization which was simply too much trouble to actually suppress.
every time they become more ‘legitimate’ , my respect for the federation dies a little bit more.
Agreed. I’m still committed to the idea that they lost their operational mandate when Starfleet transitioned from a United Earth organization to a United Federation of Planets organization.
Every time Section 31 becomes more legitimate, the point of “Star Trek” dies a little more. It used to be one of VERY few examples of Sci-Fi that offered hope – that the future was a better place than now, and that there was adventure among the stars to dream about.
If I wanted gritty / dark / dystopian, I have a slew of choices.
Section 31 came about because the DS9 scripwriters realized that humans will not “evolve” in a mere couple hundred years, and that there will always be bad guys that don’t play by the rules, that need to be protected against by people who don’t play by the rules, either. Sucks, but otherwise you have to write scripts about perfect angels, and that’s boring.
That’s extremely myopic.
I’m guessing your a Berman fan.
They were also the villains of DS9. Like, a major plot point was stopping them from committing Genocide with bioweapons.
To be fair, they were going to use that bioweapon on the Changelings, who were busy trying to conquer the Alpha quadrant and had caused the deaths of billions of people in the Alpha Quadrant (and according to Bashir and the other genetically enhanced people, would cause the death of many billions more). Also if I recall the Changelings themselves used bioweapons on some planets that would not capitulate (unless I’m confusing that plot point with Stargate SG-1, which had a similar plot on one episode).
And the Changelings also genetically manipulated the Gem Hadar to be dependent on Ketracel White to force them to be a slave race, and had thoroughly brainwashed the Vorta and, through cloning, made them utterly expendable non-persons.
The Changelings were rather awful, evil beings who started the fight (with the exception of Odo who himself seemed to still be rather prone to authoritarianism) and, if not for the Wormhole Aliens, would have definitely won the war.
This is not to say Section 31 was good by any stretch. Just…. trying to kill all the changelings on that planet, who seem to have acted with a single mindset (much like the Borg originally were) didnt seem that different than the Enterprise-D’s plan to defeat the Borg (prior to realizing Hugh was able to regain his individuality). The only exceptions seemed to be those who would not partake regularly in the Great Link, like Odo (and even Odo tended to succumb temporarily when he DID enter the Great Link even for a little while).
I’m just gonna stop you there.
Genocide is wrong. Full stop.
We clear on that? Yeah? Okay.
Good talk.
Might I introduce a counterpoint? Mosquitoes.
A persuasive point, but sadly probably some serious ecological problems would come with the total annihilation of mosquitoes.
Genocide of sapients at least is wrong, outside philosophical trolley problems.
One of the major storyline tropes in many sci fi stories IS basically some version of the trolley problem. The problem with the trolley problem tends to be that it’s shoehorning you into a scenario with no attention paid to anything that could have been done PRIOR to that scenario, which makes trolley problems very unrealistic thought problems.
In many sci fi stories, they set up a scenario which could make something like genocide reasonable, which would never exist in an actual human analogue, by shutting down any other scenario leading up to the trolley problem where the answers are basically ‘kill them all or they kill us all/enslave us all forever, and there are no other options available as far as the protagonists can see, even if they wish there was.’
Like hive mind mentalities where they can, without a SHADOW of a doubt presented in the storyline, guarantee that every single member of the group are outright evil, malicious, hell bent on your destruction, and WILL kill all of humanity if they are not stopped, and are too powerful to be stopped any way aside from lethal force.
Or where it’s some sort of ‘single being’ (which might also be able to separate itself into many different beings temporarily), but that single being is hell-bent on destruction of the protagonists and their entire species. Like the big bad in the Fifth Element (I know it couldnt split itself but it was a single being that was its own race), or The THing in John Carpenter’s The Thing, or the Blob.
Or it might be a race which makes it into a ‘It’s us or them, and there’s absolutely no way to negotiate a peace’ storyline, where every single member of the race are fighting in the war so there are literally NO non-combatants in a war to the death … like the Bug in Starship Troopers, or the Mimics in Edge of Tomorrow (Live, Die, Repeat), or the aliens in Independence Day (the President tried to see if there was ANY way to come to a peace between their two species for both to live, and the response was ‘No peace. Die. Diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie. DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!’)
Fair point, perhaps “applied trolley problems” then; having done railroad design, it’s always been my first thought that things had already gone horribly wrong to make the scenario possible. Also, scifi is one of my favorite genres due to precisely this ability to frame human issues in an interesting way; bonus points for citing Edge of Tomorrow which was a lot of fun.
incidentally, your final example has me thinking that perhaps it wasn’t humanity’s best decision to assume that a wounded, assaulted POW infantry grunt’s aggravated “up yours” represented the definitive political stance of the entire species. Sure, the aliens coordinated a worldwide assault on innocent civilians, but IIRC world leadership never even tried any diplomatic overtures.
“it wasn’t humanity’s best decision to assume that a wounded, assaulted POW infantry grunt’s aggravated “up yours” represented the definitive political stance of the entire species. ”
Couple of things about this :)
1) The alien wasnt wounded, and had in fact just killed a bunch of the scientists and was using one to speak through. After having been in the group that killed a bunch of other people in an unprovoked attack on humanity throughout the world.
The back and forth went like this:
President Whitmore: I know there is much we can learn from each other if we can negotiate a truce. We can find a way to co-exist. Can there be a peace between us?
Alien: Peace? No peace!
President Whitmore: What is it you want us to do?
Alien: Die…DIE!
At which point the Alien started telepathically attacking President Whitmore, while also flooding his mind with EXACTLY what the aliens planned on doing to Earth – the same thing they had done to thousands of other planets before Earth – kill everyone, harvest every last natural resource, and leave the Earth a barren, lifeless rock before moving on to the next planet in their genocidal trek through the stars.
So even if you assume the alien was saying ‘up yours’ – the fact is the President was subject to the telepathic link which let him know EXACTLY what the aliens planned on doing after Whitmore made a plea for peace and co-existence.
” Sure, the aliens coordinated a worldwide assault on innocent civilians, but IIRC world leadership never even tried any diplomatic overtures.”
That literally was the attempt to do a diplomatic overture. They had also tried broadcasting to the ships as well but they would not respond. The only response was to attack en masse. Later in awful sequel, Independence Day 2, we find that they’ve done this on every other planet as well just like the President saw during the telepathic link, and Earth was the first planet to ever manage to stop them.
In short, the movies go out of their way to say that there was no possible way to have peace with the genocidal alien race which wanted to kill all of humanity, take all the resources, and leave the planet completely lifeless, and that they would NOT negotiate, not have any sort of diplomatic solution, and not have ANY mercy whatsoever, like they had not had on every other planet they’d done the same thing to. Basically…. the movie made the trolley problem where there was absolutely no way to avert the binary choice of ‘Genocide them or be genocided BY them.’ You can’t even use the morally suspect idea that Earth started it, because the movie also goes out of its way to show that not only did the ALIENS start it, but they’d started it on every other planet as well. :)
Btw this is specifically what President Whitmore saw when he was in a telepathic link (which the alien was trying to kill him with):
“I saw his thoughts. I saw what they’re planning to do. They’re like locusts. They’re moving from planet to planet, their whole civilisation. After they’ve consumed every natural resource, they move on..and we’re next.”
Trolley problems are really just an attempt to tease out the subtle, unconscious rules of people’s moral reasoning, and that’s best found by comparing people’s responses to variations on the problem. But I don’t think that being dropped in at the critical juncture makes them unrealistic — there are many problems in real life caused by other people that we end up needing to respond to, and saying “You should have done something different!” does nothing to change the situation.
Having a plan for deescalating commit-genocide-or-suffer-genocide situations could be essential in the near future. There are already people convinced that they need to kill their political enemies before their enemies kill them. If we have no way of convincing these people of a peaceful alternative, then it may actually become necessary to validate their fears. There’s a lot of pressure behind the idea of a preemptive strike, if the alternative is utter destruction. How much risk can people be expected to bear? If one side or the other must cease to exist, which should survive? The one that wishes for peaceful coexistence, or the one that wishes to be alone in the universe? Which is more likely to strike first? Which is likely to be more aggressive, less merciful? Which is more likely to win? The peaceful side presumably has the advantage of diversity… But the aggressive side is more likely of a single mind, and dedicated to war.
Extremely useful thought experiments, irritatingly poor engineering scenarios for anyone trained in rigorously breaking down problems and applied systems thinking. :D
I had forgotten about the telepathic link that let the President see their master plan. Or at least he claimed it gave him that insight, to play devil’s advocate if I wanted to argue he was the bloodthirsty one, although the other evidence wouldn’t bear that out. Haven’t seen the movie in at least 20 years, but was pretty sure the alien had some internal injury given that it was unconscious for hours after a crash landing.
“Haven’t seen the movie in at least 20 years, but was pretty sure the alien had some internal injury given that it was unconscious for hours after a crash landing.”
He wasn’t unconscious from the crash landing. He was unconscious because Will Smith punched him in the face. The ships have internal dampening according to Jeff Goldblum later on – the crash did nothing to the alien. Just like it did nothing to Will and Jeff later when they crashed back on Earth. :)
Most of those ecological problems are because people are worse than mosquitoes.
I think you’re coming to the wrong conclusion on what I’m saying. I’m not saying genocide is right obviously. I’m making a devil’s advocate argument as it relates to specific fictional scenarios in sci fi that happen QUITE often in these stories. I’m explaining that:
1) It wasn’t a plan exclusive to just Section 31. Even the ‘heroic’ elements of the Federation came up with similar plans.
2) They did not consider any of the Changelings on the homeworld to be innocent because, in a war, combatants are legitimate targets, and among the Changelings, just as among the Borg, there were no non-combatants aside from Odo, once they join the Great Link.
3) According to the female changeling herself, when Odo asked how many changelings were there were…. there were both many and only ONE – the Great Link. So when they were part of the Great Link, they weren’t a race of Changelings…. they were a single Changeling that could separate its parts off into smaller changelings, which would then be reconstituted into the Great Link. The only reason Odo was different was he was gone so long that he was able to resist the lure back – largely because he fell in love with Kira. So…. killing the Great Link would kill all Changelings (except for Odo and any changelings that were not a part of the Great Link). But it would essentially be killing ONE changeling. Sort of like when they killed the Blob in the movie, The Blob, before it could grow too large or split off into other pieces.
4) Please do not think I support genocide. That’s offensive. I’m just explaining the rationale of the characters in a fictional scenario where the enemy is something FAR different than any sort of human-style analog. For the sake of this argument, consider it as if the Changelings were all part of a military organization bent on destruction and enslavement of other species. Sort of like Space Nazis. Or like one big Space Nazi that’s able to separate itself into many smaller parts.
I’m just saying it wasn’t a plan exclusive to Section 31. Also that the Changelings were trying, quite actively, to genocide multiple races, and had genocided multiple other races in the Gamma quadrant. They also did try to genocide the Cardassians as well, although the Cardassians tried to genocide the Changelings in the Great Link first with Enabran Tain’s plan. But if you defend the Changelings because the Cardassians made the first strike against them, you’d have to defend Starfleet (or more specifically Section 31) because the Changelings made the first strike against the Federation (plus all other parts of the Alpha Quadrant).
The Enterprise thought up a similar plan in response to the Borg because of the nature of the enemy being where there are not any ‘civilians’ among the Borg (or among the Changelings) which made them all legitimate targets in a war, as far as the Federation was concerned. The reason that normally such a plan would be unthinkable would be because a full on genocide would include both combatants and non-combatants.
But in certain fictional Sci fi scenarios, there are no ‘non-combatants’ among the enemy, according to the protagonists, which would, by conventional war rules, make them all legal targets in a war. Especially a war for survival in which the protagonists were the aggressed rather than the aggressors.
The Borg.
The Changelings.
The Bugs in Starship Troopers (To quote Starship Troopers’ Neil Patrick Harris, “We’re in this war for the species, boys and girls.”)
The Aliens in the first Independence Day movie (assuming the second one was never made)
The Formics in Ender’s Game (although they later realized that the QUEENS were individuals and only the workers were not sentient individual beings, and the Formics had no idea that humans were not the same – a bunch of mindless drones with only the leaders having sapience)
The Ori (from Stargate SG-1) – Even Daniel, the most peace-loving member of the team, wanted to wipe out the Ori entirely (and they succeeded, with the exception of Adria, who they did not anticipate would have been able to ascend AND not be destroyed with the rest of the Ori).
In TNG, it wasn’t until the Borg were shown to be potentially individuals that Picard and the crew of the enterprise started realizing the plan was morally wrong. Before that, they were relying on what Guinan believed about the Borg (and what Q had told them about the Borg, as well as the past experience with the Borg and statements BY the Borg themselves).
Oh, also the Replicators also in Stargate SG-1 AND Stargate Atlantis – two different species of Replicators, each of which was ‘genocided.’ In the Milky Way Galaxy, it was via an Ancient Device on Takara, and in the Pegasus Galaxy, it was via the Replicater that McKay programmed (Although there, a few survived who wanted to still try to Ascend, led by the Replicator version of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, who then led the remaining ones into the vacuum of space when it was decided that even those remaining ones could no longer be trusted.
You can blame Rick “I’ve repeatedly and explicitly stated that I expressly do not believe in Rodenberry’s vision of the future” Berman.
He’s turned ST into nothing but pro war, pro cop, pro CIA, pro imperialist, pro capitalist, patriarchal, misogynistic propaganda.
I fucking hate him, everything he stands for, and wish he would go the fuck away.
No notes. Send post.
I always liked Babylon 5 for the perspective that even a pro-cop, pro-authority, ‘supposedly’ pro-war group of authorities, could still actively choose to take the authority and power given, and shunt it towards more socialist policies for the betterment of the station, and that ultimately whatever system is adopted- the result is determined by whoever is put in charge, and how well they manage their subordinate choices rather than the system in place.
Sure it’s Dystopic, but its also about how people dig themselves into and out of conflicts, and more importantly the direct evolution of a mindset that might lead to a utopia in the future. Rather than deal with the boring it is already a utopia, this is how it works.
I don’t think Berman was involved in Babylon 5. That was J. Michael Straczynski. Berman was co-creator of DS9 and executive producer of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
I just looked Ate up. I’m embarrassed that I never heard of her! (In Chimy’s defense there are several female versions of Coyote.)
Have to admit that I’d get into a lot of trouble as a shape shifter. Prank wars could get legendary.
That’s a poor comparison. Arc-Dark has a legitimate mandate to operate from its governing body. That’s not the case with Section 31.
Section 31 is essentially a terrorist organization driven by the ideology of ‘doing what’s best for the Federation’ while never actually KNOWING what’s best, and actively undermining the Federation’s efforts at diplomacy in the process.
That’s because Berman is entirely committed to patronizing “we know what’s best, you stupid hippies” ideology. For him, diplomacy is what you do after you militarily vanquish the enemy, and can enforce all your demands without exception or push back.
Yeah, if Arc-Dark IS Archon’s Section 31 they need to to be stomped into the dirt harder than Supermassive.
Though I must admit, this does increasingly make me wonder what sort of oversight Archon has.
Their oversight has been pretty significant so far. Video calls with the President, their own on-site General, Senators calling even Arianna … and then we get over to things like the Supers-identity drive and how it is common-enough knowledge to have leaked out to the Ascensionists somehow – Archon does not appear to have secrets hidden from the larger Government.
Archon might receive significant oversight without Arc-Dark being equally subjected to it.
“Though I must admit, this does increasingly make me wonder what sort of oversight Archon has.”
The oversight would be Congress (power of the purse), the Joint Chiefs of Staff (because ARCHON is military), and the President of the United States (because the POTUS is the Commander in Chief). There’s also almost undoubtedly an oversight committee in Congress like there is for other Intelligence agencies that require funding. Just like there was in Stargate SG-1 for the Stargate Program and SGC.
Just because there is an oversight committee doesn’t mean anyone outside of the committee even knows it exists, let alone what they are overwatching (obviously not the case with Archon itself, but Arc-Dark and Arc-Light? they may know supers exist publically, but what about magic? and beasties are still Veiled)
Remember the Bourne movies? Black Ops hidden within Black Ops, covered up by the very committee’s placed to watch over them
“Just because there is an oversight committee doesn’t mean anyone outside of the committee even knows it exists”
The Intelligence Committee would, though. If they don’t, then the Op would be illegal in the first place, and we already know Arc-Dark and Arc-Light are not illegal.
“they may know supers exist publically, but what about magic? and beasties are still Veiled)”
The fact that Maxima knows and General Faulk knows means that the oversight committee definitely would know (as well as the President and the Joint Chiefs of Staff). Veil or no veil – they would have to be kept in on the loop. Maxima even implies that there are people in the government who know when she speaks to the Council
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-462-seating-arrangements/
(panel 6)
Maxima: “We are consulting allies. We ask for no vote, and collaboration benefitsus all. The Council has… USUALLY had good relations WITH THE US GOVERNMENT”
This means the actual government. Not just supers. Which would most likely be the Intelligence Committees (the Select Committee on Intelligence in the Senate, and the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence in the House), which has higher clearance than the rest of Congress.
And the President knows what happens in those committees as well, despite what happened in the movie, Independence Day. :)
You really believe the Pres is informed about everything? Yeah, nah, specially not until they have proven they are not some sleepy-eyed idiot who won’t even make a second term
Again, the committee may know, but how many not directly involved in either would?
How can you have a secret unit if anyone can find out about it?
And, we don’t know if Arc-Dark or Arc-Light are not illegal. Obviously Maxi and Faulke know, but they may simply know that they exist and know nothing about their legality, because they would have no reason to check…
And before Dumb and Dimmer show up, this is just a loopy conspiracy theory… or is it?
Dude, you say something deliberately inflammatory – under the assumption that people are fans of Status Joe – and then start tossing out insulting nicknames preemptively.
Where’s the “joke” in this?
Never said it was a joke, so just stop your bullshit
You want to start a fight, go somewhere else
So you think it’s fine if you say things that are inflammatory and insulting — it’s the people who respond to your bait that are trying to start a fight.
“You really believe the Pres is informed about everything?”
Even assuming the President is NOT informed of everything in their daily briefings, pr even if the President is incompetent, or not currently able to perform the duties of President (ie, lets say they are ill for an extended period of time, or are removed via the 25th Amendment or impeachment, during which the VP would be briefed instead), there is still oversight by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Intelligence Committee. Also, if the President isn’t being informed, it’s very likely considered an act of treason.
“who won’t even make a second term”
Obama did make a second term. In the Grrlpower storyline, he is currently President. It also does not matter if the President is for one or two terms – they are given all the information on day one and that information is updated daily by the President’s Daily Brief.
Lets use a fictional Presidency because I don’t want people getting all political about this. Stargate SG-1.
Under the President at the time’s orders, the SGC was formed. The President, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Intelligence Committees were all informed (which is how Senator Kinsey knew about the SGC). The Appropiations Committee did NOT know but they did know that money was sometimes diverted to different secret ops that only the Intelligence Committees were privy to. When Presidnet Henry Hayes was elected in Season 7 (the episode was called ‘Inauguration’), he was given a briefing by the head of the Intelligence Committee, and the Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about the existence of the Stargate Program and EVERYTHING else, including all the off-the-books operations. Also the N.I.D. When the IOA eventually is given oversight instead, THEY are given the same information as well, albeit filtered through the US government’s Intelligence Committee and the POTUS first.
“How can you have a secret unit if anyone can find out about it?”
The Intelligence Committee isnt ‘anyone can find out about it.’
“Obviously Maxi and Faulke know, but they may simply know that they exist and know nothing about their legality, because they would have no reason to check…”
Arianna knows as well. I’m pretty sure she, as ARCHON’s head attorney, would know about Arc-Dark and Arc-Light’s legality. And yes, Faulk would have reason to check to make sure all parts of the group which he is liaison to the President and the Joint Chief of Staff would know is legal.
Wasn’t talking about any President specifically, just explaining there is no point in informing them of something like this if they won’t be around very long
And the ‘anyone can find out about it’ was referring to people not on the Committee or part of the unit or base hierarchy (like Maxi and Faulk)
“Wasn’t talking about any President specifically, just explaining there is no point in informing them of something like this if they won’t be around very long”
Except that the President is the Commander in Chief of all military branches, and Arc-Dark is part of Archon, which is part of the military. Therefore, the Commander in Chief, even though the President is a civilian, of that military MUST be told. It doesn’t matter if they arent around very long. It doesnt matter if they’re President for one month, let alone one term. William Henry Harrison was President for one month before he died, and he had a Presidential Daily Briefing as well. The PDB is a necessary requirement for the President so that they can actually execute the laws of the nation, by having all available information on hand.
“And the ‘anyone can find out about it’ was referring to people not on the Committee or part of the unit or base hierarchy (like Maxi and Faulk)”
Who else would know or be able to find out? Not sure who ‘anyone’ is when you say ”anyone can find out about it.’