Grrl Power #111 – Truesight Shmuesight
Writing is an interesting process that I’m still pretty new to. (As evidenced by the fact that I just ended a sentence with a preposition. Which people think is bad, but in fact there is no rule against.) I always had a few notions of how Peggy would behave, and there’s a few critical scenes she’ll be in and I know how she’ll act in those, but there was still a lot of character that needed to be filled in. I have done enough writing to know that you generally don’t have to worry about that stuff though. As long as you keep to the spirit of the character and are mindful of those pivotal scenes, characters will write themselves. I like the direction Peggy has taken already. Despite getting along quite well with many of the supers, she is one of those obscenely skilled humans that is probably a little annoyed at the ones think they’re all that when they haven’t put in nearly the same effort into developing themselves as she has. Apparently she deals with it by calmly taking the wind out of their sails as we see here.
Arc-Aegis by the way, is in charge of security and defense. Once a super containment facility is in place, they’ll be in charge of that as well.
Speaking of Peggy, anyone have any recommendations for what pistols she might use? I’ve drawn her carrying two. I googled “accurate pistol” or something and it looks like semi-auto pistols are generally more accurate than revolvers. In fact I didn’t see any revolvers used for competition shooting, but I didn’t spend a ton of time on it. The one in her shoulder holster is a semi-auto, maybe a .45 ACP or something? The problem is if you google stuff like that and stumble blind into a forum, everyone has their opinions and it’s hard to get a feel for what an actual really good, accurate pistol is. I’m sure there are crazy accurate single shot pistols out there but Peggy would carry something that’s actually practical in a firefight. Her hip holster (which you can just barely see poking out from behind the word bubble in panel 5) I figure should have less emphasis on accuracy and more on stopping power. Nothing like Max’s T-Rex, but maybe a 3-5 round revolver loaded with something that would go through someone who’s face is as tough as an engine block.
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Guns are a highly personal thing. I know ladies who shoot Desert Eagles in .50 AE, and I know some who don’t like anything hotter than a .38 revolver. I’d suggest that, as the artist, you look at ones you think fit the character, then ask for specific recommendations from there.
I would recommend you look at these pistols and chose what you like, and what you want to draw.
The first three are all very accurate, and very popular with the competitive shooting crowd.
Springfield XDM competition model (9mm or 40S&W) for a standard side arm with a nice modern look
H&K SOCOM or Mark 23 in 45 ACP or .40 very popular with special forces (that’s what socom means)
Bren Ten in 10mm (lots more power than a 45 ACP) VLTOR bought the rights to it, but it isn’t on the market yet. VLTOR makes several items for the military including rotary grenade launchers.
Desert Eagle in the original 44magnum or the .50AE for superior power against very hard to stop things.
not the most practical gun for normal targets due to high recoil and low magazine capacity. If you have to stop bears its very good though.
As an avid shooter, I would suggest she carry a weapon which is easy/fun for you to draw. ;-)
You may then modify it to have any stats you like.
At close range a 0.32 semi auto in a wrist rig would stop most anyone. So would a pepper box gun.
You could always make-up a gun for her that does whatever you think she’d want in a gun, but I agree it should be able to shoot an assortment of different types of bullets. is she Triad trained?
I assume by triad trained you’re not asking if she was trained by Chinese mafia.
you mean the chinese gun martial arts (can’t think of the proper name) that is popular with the triad and assasins, strong interest from military and police personel too. don’t think US mil would get a good chance to learn it as it is a weak form if not trained from childhood and few would want foregn forces using it.
I’d recommend a random semi-automatic for self-defense, and a big-ass revolver with a variety of specialised projectiles for targets way too close for regular sniper work, but far enough to not be in the ohshitohshitgonnadie range. Spec. projectiles may include depleted uranium, thermite loads with inertia switches, or cook up a quickly deteriorating Sarin variant, and at least one round/known hostile super carrying said super’s weakness. Even better if she has the same ammo for at least one rifle and this revolver (there are .50BMG revolvers out there), or if she only needs to change the barrel to switch between light sniper and heavy revolver. If you go with this, it should use the locking mechanism of the Nagant, to minimise energy loss and make it’s sound suppressable.
I think Peggy may be my new favorite character.
I agree with Gambit, fun and easy to draw would be best. Any style or brand of gun can be modified to be more accurate or perform anyway you want. I would recommend a Glock, just because they are already well know for great dependability and can be modified extensively to fit any demands made upon it, be they accuracy or stopping power.
NO REVOLVERS! Seriously there is a reason no military uses revolvers anymore. Limited ammo, slower reload, more of a bitch to fire. If you want to give her a side arm give her the KRISS Vector!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRISS_Vector
Who would use revolvers today? 9 mms auto to semi auto are prevalent and don’t jam.
Semi-autos are much better for moderate-power high-volume tasks, which covers pretty much everything the police and military do with a handgun. Revolvers are much better for high-power low-volume tasks, which is why nearly all handgun hunters use them. The highest power you can get in a semi-auto is far below the highest power you can get in a revolver.
I would suggest that her alternate handgun be something in .454 Casull or .500 S&W Magnum. My personal favorites in both calibers are from the Taurus Raging Bull series.
I agree with the “pick your firearm” option. Whatever you pick, just remember, it’s probably government issue, which means everybody who has a firearm is going to carry the same one.
Somehow, I don’t think Peggy will be using standard issue. Even if she privately thought it was the best gun she would use a different one just to stand out.
a revolver is easier to load the exact round you want so if you plan to use more than one type of ammo that may be desirable. otherwise semi-auto uses clips and are faster to reload and have more shots per reload.
beyond that it’s all personality.
and if you want to change from one round to another just swap out the clip. Or you could go the Judge Dread route and have a semi-auto that can change rounds on the fly.
But doesn’t that leave a round of the ‘wrong’ type still in the chamber? I’m fairly sure it’s one of the ‘standard mistakes’ when unloading a semi-auto to forget about the chamber round, so I would assume that the same applies when changing to a different clip of Special. In which case, a revolver that allows the entire ‘revolver’ block to be swapped out would avoid that issue. You’d have a far lower capacity per reload, but would you really be using half a dozen of the same specials in a row like that?
Of course, if you can get the Lawgiver, that would avoid the whole issue. Provided the computer behaves itself, and assuming you can somehow shoehorn enough of several ammo types into a usable package – personally, I’d consider it unfeasible for a handgun but worth investigation for the vehicle-mounted or heavy machine gun scale.
Something I’ve been wondering about for awhile,just how tough are the orbs.Will they break if their used as a weapon themselves,like punching a hole in a wall or bad guy with them.How fast can she make them move,can she spin them around herself fast enough to create a sonic boom while standing safe in her force field?
Ooh, I like these. Let’s see, she’s a woman of average height, AF vet, who prioritizes accuracy. Well, Sig P-series autos are popular with “special forces”-types, and they do see some use with the AF in the form of the M11. Maybe something similar to the standard issue, but classed up a bit. I’d suggest an E2 series Sig P229 with a few custom touches, perhaps a match barrel and a quality trigger job. Concealable, reliable, full 15rd magazine, and crazy accurate.
Now, for the “brickstopper.” Well, there’s no shortage of good hand cannons out there, but if you really want to put a hurting on someone who can shrug off 9mm hollow points and don’t want to just carry a rifle, I think I’d suggest something like a Serbu Super Shorty loaded with Rio Armoured slugs. That would offer three shots, it has a foregrip, which is important because it will kick like a mule, and it’ll about stop a truck at close range. A shotgun also gives you the option of lots of specialized rounds, such as dragon’s breath or some sort of tangler rounds (think Spider-Man’s impact webbing), which may come in handy in her line of work.
You know, depending on the type of brick, I’d think some sort of armor piercing round would be considerably more practical than hollowpoints, since they actually have less penetration, but do more damage to soft targets because of the way the tip expands on impact.
Against normal human flesh most guns have penetration to spare, but if your target is a freak with metal skin, your hollowpoint may not do much.
I would add a built in silencer too. You don’t want to be making loud bang noises on point.
That’d be a trade-off that would probably depend on the mission. A silencer does keep things less obtrusive, but it severely limits the muzzle velocity and therefore the impact energy.
Wrong sir a silencer does not limit muzzle velocity the change in velocity would come from the use of subsonic munitions paired with it. If anything a silencer will actually add velocity because it acts as a barrel extension even though it is releasing some of the gas pressure behind the bullet. Unless the barrel was long enough for the gasses to reach full expansion before entering the silencer (really really long barrel) in which case there would be no effect on velocity. Please don’t take gun mechanics from COD again thx.
well guns are a really tricky subject. two types the glock (used by police) and the smith & wesson are reliable. -_- but beyond that my knowledge of guns really starts skating on thin ice.
For a ‘a 3-5 round revolver loaded with something that would go through someone who’s face is as tough as an engine block’ have a look the Taurus Judge:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge
Speaking as a complete layman, Peggy would pistol-pack …
1. Something big and impressive that says “mess with me and you die!” It does not need to be effective, or even able to shoot. It just needs to put the target on notice. There is a reason that public guards and comic strip characters carry weapons that will break the arm or the back of the unfortunate that has to carry them. They are not to be used, except to impress so they don’t have to be used.
2. A small collection of varied weapons for different purposes, ala Batman utility belt, and her 2nd weapon will just happen to fit the plot of the moment.
3. A hidden emergency weapon on the order of the one shot derringer. [“If I told you I had three weapons, everybody might know.”]
She would not normally carry anything of high accuracy. Of course given her character, she might insist on something that lets her put 5 bullets in the same bullet hole even if it takes an hour to set up and puts her in the hospital every time she uses it, but as has been noted, if she wants accuracy, she doesn’t want a hand weapon. [Old West coroner report: “Committed suicide. At range of 200 yards, opened fire with a pistol at a man armed with a rifle.”] Something quick and fast, that can spray the area is likely better.
Smith and Wesson M500 or Desert Eagle if you want a handcannon. Machine pistols would work but you need a shoulder stock, Berretta Px4 storm, SIG Sauer P250, Sig P239, Semmerling LM4 makes a good back up pistol, Beretta M9, Heckler & Koch USP. Glocks aren’t bad either. if you want a glock go with a Glock 22,23 you can also use Glock 37.
The Pistols i like by maker are S&W, Berretta, Switzerland guns, some German guns
You want to customize a gun based on what your using it for. If want for a pistols you can have stocks,laser sight, flash lights, scopes, silencers, suppressors, different colors, ability to shot high explosive rounds, Incendiary ammo, or Tracer ammo. There is a lot of customization.
When you use a gun you want it be useable and also comfortable in your hands and carrying it and cleaned properly the weight of the gun, Kickback of the gun and safety of the gun so you accidentally discharge it.
If you want you can even make up a imaginary gun for stopping super powered people.
mean to say so you don’t accidentally discharge it. Also if its a new gun for you that you plan on using you want to practice with it. it normally takes anywhere from 1 box of ammo to 10 boxes of ammo sometimes less then a full box of ammo before getting use to a gun.
Guns… God, that’s a subjective choice if there ever was one.
ThatKnightGuy already mentioned that simply being used to something is a huge factor in precision. Not all, but enough that you should take into account what pistols Peggy was originally trained with in her pre-ARC career.
Another thing is how you feel while holding the weapon. Me for example (competitive marksman in Switzerland), I’ve tried both the SIG P210 (former) and P220 (current pistol of the Swiss army). While the first is generally said to be more precise, I’ll score (10 single shots, P10 sight disc, 50m distance) an average of around 85-88 with the 210 and 90-94 with the 220 after having trained with both for a while. Obviously I can handle the broader and lighter frame of the 220 better.
And since the CZ75 was already mentioned several times, I’d like to introduce the SPHINX 3000. It’s predecessor, the 2000er series, was pretty much intended to be a copy of the CZ. It however sported several quirks that were eliminated with the 3000er series. It’s generally considered to be a very good weapon, not widely known though.
Talking about calibre, one of the most precise guns I’ve ever used was a .40 sports pistol. Pretty much as precise as the .22 long Hämmerli 280 I usually use in competitions. Unfortunately with just as small a magazine. And the sports grip certainly ain’t practical for military use.
And since I was already talking about SIGs. In case you’ll need an assault rifle or machine pistol at some point, you might want to take a look at the SG550, 551 and 553 as well. All of them very reliable, flexible (there’s also a grenade launcher fitting on the 550 and 551, the GLG40) and accurate up to 400m, 500 with a scope. (Well, not sure about the 553, never tried a bigger distance than 300m with that one. Works just fine on it though.)
One problem with those rifles however: They need a lot of cleaning for best performance. Every 100 shots at the least if you don’t want to run into problems at some point.
Wanted to add: I never used one myself. But I’ve heard bad things about the Beretta when it comes to durability.
Note that it’s the standard issue 9mm in the US military and, er, plenty there would rather have an M1911. So it’s bound to have some bad press, warranted or not.
It’s been rigorously tested and there’s quite a lot of people regularly using them. I’d think most kinks are ironed out by now. I do know there were some issues with construction that came to light while specops were shooting thousands of way overpowered (as in well out-of-spec) loads through them, and those, too, got fixed. So I’d expect the thing to be pretty robust, actually. Even if I don’t particularly like berettas, but that hardly matters.
I’ll be honest, I don’t remember the details anymore.
But from what I recall the first M9s had a design failure that led to a chance of the sled breaking through the stops and being flung into the face of the shooter when firing. They fixed that, but the reinforced stops now tend to cause cracks in the sled after continuous use. Not a danger to the shooter as with the first run, but meaning you’ll have to replace a good part of the gun regularily and have a higher risk of it breaking down mid-mission.
It’s not a fatal flaw (unless maybe if the latter happens) per se, but a flaw nonetheless. Still, if the Beretta is the gun you get the best results with, it’s not wrong to use it. Just remember to regularily check the sled and always have a replacement ready.
Yes, you remember correctly that people got hurt, but the few people that got hurt were specops who were essentially trying to blow up the weapon with custom, overly hot loads of the really wtf are you doing kind, and shooting thousands of such rounds in quick succession.
You can say the weapon’s no good because it breaks if you make it work too hard, but it’d be more honest to say that it stands up to abuse amazingly well. Abuse because those loads are well beyond what the manufacturer specified the thing can take–and remember that the military accepted those specifications as good enough for their purpose. So some people within the military deliberately went outside the specs, and they did manage to break the thing. Big deal.
Forgetting that detail is quite convenient but also amounts to FUD. You don’t have to like it, but the weapon is fine, else it’d never have passed the procurement testing in the first place. Now please stop repeating that particular canard.
I would concur here if not for having heard complaints from some hobby shooters as well about the Beretta breaking down more often than other guns of its class. Both in different forums as well as directly from collectors I know. Even had a gunsmith explain to me that this was a logical consequence of the design changes made to make the gun safer.
But as I said, it’s not a bad gun. Just not quite as durable as other ones. But that’s something that can be remedied by increased care and we’re talking guns that will fire up to thousands of shots without a hitch here. So if you get good results with it, then go with it. Just pay good attention to its condition (truth be told: One should do that with any gun intended for use.) and maybe have spare parts or a substitute ready.
Good suggestions, thanks. I don’t know how the Swiss Army Knife is branded in Switzerland – I suppose it’s just called “the army knife” but when you talk about the pistol the Swiss Army uses, I’m afraid I can’t help but picture something with 17 barrels and 9 scopes on it. :)
Not quite as many scopes, no. ;)
This is the one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer_P220
As for the Swiss Army Knife (this is the current one, btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Soldatenmesser_08-2.JPG, this its predecessor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Swiss_Army_Knive_opened.jpeg), we simply call it “Sackmesser” or “Armee-Sackmesser”. Which translates to “pocket knife” or “army pocket knife” respectively. The official designation would be “Soldatenmesser”, “soldier knife”.
Hm.. one of the links didn’t work. Let’s try this one: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Swiss_Army_Knive_opened.jpeg&filetimestamp=20090915135211
As for picking for aestetics, well, trinity (the matrix) shot berettas in whatwasit .32 so they wouldn’t look oversized in her hands. There’s an interesting writeup by whowasitagain explaining a number of film gun choices. But that’s filmic, so has pretty much nothing to do with combat effectiveness.
The whole stopping power debate is a fairly American thing. Something to fill forums with and all that. Specops in WWII would be issued silenced guns in subsonic .22(!) because everything else is Just Too Noisy. That of course has No Stopping Power, yet didn’t stop the things from being highly effective in their role.
And that’s the thing, innit? Just what do you carry them for?
You don’t generally carry handguns for their outstanding accuracy. Officers carry them to not use them. Yes, really. They’re really for last-ditch self-defence, and these days REMFs get issued things like the MP7 instead. Look up what size and weight bullet those things shoot.
Carrying snub-nosed revolvers for self defence is another one of those religious things, as pistols might jam, see? Even though a well-made semi-auto with decent ammo pretty much won’t, these days. Or consider that Togusa (ghost in the shell) shoots a mateba.
Plenty of Americans don’t mind semi-autos, but their religion then is the M1911. It isn’t just the .45ACP, it’s also that it’s a Browing and that it has somehow become very, very American[tm]. Note that the original was a single-stack 7 rounder and the purists will swear by that still. Will Peggy?
The US military finally settled on 9mm way way way after bloody everybody else in NATO had already done so, and they’re still throwing tantrums about it. (There’s withering irony here, xref .280 British, but since this audience is American I’ll leave it at that.) Some even have special guns made just for them, like the h&k SOCOM mark23, which pretty much is their desert eagle.
You could subtly lampshade the overpowered handgun carrying by giving Peggy the jericho 941 as that is (reportedly, I haven’t tried) quite a decent weapon actually, but (was) marketed as the “baby eagle”, and is available in nato-standard 9mm. Depends a bit on her character obviously.
Personally I’d be tempted to shamelessly trade on the “special” status and get a glock 18, again 9mm but fully automatic. Something that (most by far) sniper rifles (presumably her weapon of choice?) decidedly are not, so maybe she wouldn’t like it.
On the Russian note, the GSh-18 is also 9mm, but able to shoot AP ammo that’s hotter than +P+, so, well, novelty. Or if it’s non-AP stopping power you want, you could look into giving her a 10mm handgun. Say the glock 29, because it’s the compact model, see?
Anyhow, there’s plenty of other suitable candidates, but it’d help if you’d define what she carries it for? Beyond the obvious of carrying some last-ditch self defence while flying a souped-up helicopter, as I take it that’s why she carries it outside her jacket under an armpit. Does she carry it while off-duty and if so where? Maybe something smaller like a kahr pm9 or a walther pps, and concealed?
If it’s just bog standard carry-because-the-regs-say-so (maybe she only cares about her rifle?) then she’d end up with the standard, the M9. Or maybe the outfit is really more on the spookery side and then a sig sauer seems to be de rigeur. Otherwise she’ll have to have made some choice and made an effort to get away with it.
Reading this again I think I like the jericho, but, well, your character, your choice.
Just remember- the British decided against the .280 because they didn’t want to re-tool every weapon in the arsenal. Never mind it’s great ballistics and small package~ Much the same, after WW2, the British Army and it’s Armoured corps decided on the .45 ACP as it’s pistol cartridge. That was nixed because it wasn’t a British design, kinda like the U.S. decided against the FAL, because it wasn’t ‘Mercan-designed. Never mind that the ’03 Springfield was really a Mauser. Silly is what ALL of our procurement methods are, really.
As to the “American Auto” cult you note- not that I’ve seen. Almost every person I know- and that is a LOT of gun people (SF “operators” and regular military ((Marines, Army, A.F., Navy)), civilians and police, as well as competition shooters), as I help to build and sell them- uses a SIG. A lot have returned to the U.S. as it were, now using the XD series, and we have a few that are 1911 fanatics. But even the most staunch 1911 freak is all about the higher-capacity ones, now, by a variety of makers (Kimber is a favorite, but they have few hi-cap types~). The thing is, all have the same experience(s) regarding stopping power. They love the .40 and .45, simple as that. Me? I’m a 9mm guy- I can hit it 17 times for your 10, and do so really, really fast!
Great set of points overall, though! Thanks for the read!
OH! And I forgot- stopping power and the spec-op .22 have NOTHING to do with each other.
A spec-op .22 was fired from concealment, at a stationary target, often nearly touching the intended target.
Stopping power is what you need when someone is running at you to gut you, pumped full of adrenalin or maybe even drugs (liquor?). SUre, you use the .22 if it’s what you have, but I bet you’d rather have a .45.
Also note- the most common issued caliber of silenced weapons in WW2 was not .22, it was 9mm- think STENS, etc MADE for it. And believe me- they are quiet! The brass tinkling on the ground is several orders of magnitude louder than the 9mm round’s firing. Heck- even the “smack” of the bullet on paper and I’d imagine a body) is louder than the actual firing.
Well, yes, you don’t use .22 for its stopping power. You’re right and I’d completely forgotten the Welrod was actually .32ACP or 9mm. Given the circumstances (clandestine use in a war-torn Europe where just about everybody was using 9mm anyway, meaning easily obtained ammo) not using 9mm would have been fairly silly. Not something that fits (or would have any place) in Peggy’s underarm holster though.
And since everybody and his dog still use 9×19, it’s still fairly silly to not be current with something that shoots that for anybody who likely ends up carrying outside the USoA. I remember reading that the P228 was standard issue among diplomatic security because of this. If that’s accurate, the list of SIG users (eg the wikipedia article) and their preferred chamberings becomes quite interesting reading. Who’s using what, and can you think of reasons why?
About the M1911, my comments are obviously from the outside looking in. If it’s your daily environment you’ll look at it differently. I’d probably be shooting .45ACP too if people kept telling me it’s so much better, and it was readily available. Even though the differences in effectiveness between .45ACP and 9mm are probably overstated, especially for the purpose of carrying a sidearm. Shoot heavier bullets, or shoot them faster? You can have both, in 10mm auto, but that one is named with metric, oh noes!
It sometimes gets funny though, like when people’re claiming the M1911 is super-duper accurate. Considering that the design was for a robust semi-automatic weapon with higher-than-revolver capacity some hundred years back, no, the basic design isn’t especially accurate. It’s much sooner easily produced and nice and simple, though these days the glock design is actually simpler.
Plenty of comments here (regardless of preference) have been basically statements of preference, which is useful in a surveying sort of way but individually are high on the armchair factor. It’s not like you can just go out on a friday night and shoot a couple of rowdy drunkards to test your latest ideas, after all.
Also, the bigger and heavier the recoil, the stronger and bigger you need to be to compensate. As someone stronger than the average woman but still quite short and slim, and fiendishly capable with whatever she shoots, well, I don’t think Peggy would tend to handcannons. Very odd, that.
The “would have to replace anyway” argument is a face-saving thing; that wasn’t why .280 got cancelled. But you need to do your own research on this. :-)
You’re right on procurement tending to the silly, though. It sure looks like it regularly ends up going like somebody with a lot of leverage sniffing about the issue sidearms being for limp-wristed faggots and needing “more stopping power”, completely forgetting the point of sidearms, nevermind the problems of logistics and issuing the same thing to many people. And logistics among NATO partners is what made the 9mm prevail. This isn’t a bad thing, as it’s not a bad cartridge, really. Even if it isn’t the result of an American-led expedition for the ultimate firearm.
Well as to the .280, yes, there is more to it- but not THAT much. I’ve had the pleasure of going through Leeds, in the back rooms, and have handled the earliest bullpup design, not the EM-2, but another which I cannot recall the designation on. It’ll come to me at like 2 am, no doubt…
The issues with he 10mm are that it has a sharper and heavier recoil than the .45,; it was designed originally as a round for SMGs, and as such has a much different set of parameters. I owned a 1911 style in 10, and sold it pretty much immediately. Just not fun to shoot- heck, my .357 hit harder and felt better!
But again, you are correct on pretty much all points. I really like the 9mm- for it’s size (for mag. capacity~), basic close-in accuracy and hitting power, it’s a really good compromise. To give you n idea, I own 11 9mm weapons right now, at least until I sell a couple- including a pair of STENS in semi, and a Stirling clone. At the moment, I am actually building a patchett- the intermediate step between the Stens and the Stirling. The bolt is a royal pain, though, as I have only a manual lathe/mill, and our ATF is taking their sweet time getting me my tax stamp paperwork. 8 months, and counting…
Thanks, good to know that my armchair theorising is at least halfway correct. I vaguely recall praise that the glock 20 as easier to shoot 10mm auto with, might want to try if there’s opportunity. I really liked someone else’s steyr gb suggestion (seeing it I recalled and regretted forgetting to mention it), though they haven’t been made in a while. That’ll be a real job, though, getting hold of one and then smithing it to 10mm. Or more likely, having to rebuild it from scratch for 10mm. Would fit the “… modified!”-approach to Peggy’s gun, though.
I hear you on the paperwork. Over here you can’t even own a gun without joining a shooting club, clubs won’t let you own –you need their endorsement on the permits– unless you’ve been with them for a couple years, and with the recent certified nutcase who’s also inexplicably gun licenced shooting a couple people and himself, the police having happened to lose paperwork possbily proving (what everybody already knew) that they had dropped the ball on the background checks, and so on, there’s of course now even more stringent requirements to even join a shooting club and obtaining licences. Though I did go out and shoot a couple guns once, I’ll stick to armchair theorising, thank you.
Even so, nice to hear about your gunsmithing. On that note, you could look into the PPSh-41 for comparison. Possibly even cruder than a sten, but a similar concept. Or maybe not, I don’t know much about the mechanisms involved.
Somehow I completely missed the hip holster in the discussion, and I concur with the shotgun suggestion. That’d be a cut-off “riot gun” type affair, maybe but a single shot single barrel 12 gauge, possibly double barreled and then likely 20 gauge, either way with a pistol grip, and a pocket full of shells. Or maybe the insides of her jacket or something. That’ll be the tool to get things done, and so she’d carry a couple rounds of different types.
The downside is that it’s slow to shoot and reload, can’t really spray the room (unless using shot, duh), but that’s what the handgun is for, so to speak.
The upside is easy ammo change, from birdshot and rock salt via larger shot, to slugs and more exotic stuff. Slugs to shoot out locks, rubber balls to knock people over, flares, rounds to set things on fire, one-shot tazer rounds to shock, armour piercing discarding sabot to shoot through car doors, heck maybe she’ll have HEAT-like shaped charge slugs to shoot engine blocks.
Shaped charges? Oh yes. Next to regular or garden variety gun nuttery, there’s Main Battle Tank gun nuttery, and while most of what is used to kill tanks doesn’t translate downward very well, if you’ve looked at the lingo at least the silly will be halfway believable. And who knows, maybe an armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot depleted uranium long rod penetrator is really useful to take down supers. So they made a shotgun slug for it, see?
Why not two handguns? Well, it’d be silly. Why carry two tools visibly if they do the same thing? You’d sooner carry the second out of sight (say, in a boot) and a third and a fourth and a few knives yet elsewhere again. The alternative for the “big” gun would be a revolver that can shoot .410 shotgun shells too, but since the semiauto already takes care of shooting more than once, the bigger bore and easy picking of a suitable shell from a wider range of options seems more practical.
So yeah, my suggestion pick out of all those options would be a jericho or possibly steyr gb, and a shotgun cut-down enough to fit in that hip holster. She might have to stick to a standard issue sidearm (m11 or m9) to atone for the shotgun as that is rather irregular for regular carry, putting it mildly, but the upside is a completely believable and legit way to introduce all sorts of wacky rounds, as an explosive toolchest of sorts.
The current alternative to that toolchest is an xm25 and that doesn’t fit that holster. Besides, that thing is far too automated to let you show off her skills.
So I take it Peggy is the resident master of dakka.
Then everybody would go to her for the local BFG to stop the local Hulk.
I’d say an M1911 variant or a 9mm. The .45 is a bigger caliber but ammo is no longer manufactured in military quantities last I heard. 9mm is the standard for service pistols right now and should be very, very practical. Either way we’re talking Browning-derived designs, tried and true works of mad genius. I’m not sure anyone with military experience would use a revolver unless they’re trying to use a pistol at ranges a rifle is better suited. As for more obscure autos? I am still unconvinced Desert Eagles aren’t just genital compensation and the FN Five-seven is probably a bitch to get ammo for, but it can punch through body armor with the right bullets.
For primary side arm I would recommend the FN 5.7. It is highly accurate, carries up to 20 rounds in an unmodified clip and is not prone to its rounds exiting the target due to specially designed rounds. The center of gravity in the round is forward and this encourages more tumbling within the target to disperse its kinetic energy. This round is also the same used in the ‘big brother’ to this weapon, the P90. Since your group is elite, chances are high they would have easy access to this weapon and it’s mods, like AP and explosive rounds, extended clips, and full auto fire mode for the P90 and the 5.7. Check the below links:
https://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=269&backPID=263&productID=66&pid_product=295&pidList=263&categorySelector=5&detail=&cHash=b5dcbec1bd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven
For her other side arm, I agree that it should be a more personal choice for her. I think she would like the Taurus Judge. It is a five shot revolver that can be loaded with .45 Colt or .410 Shot rounds. Since this is an elite military group and Peggy has likely earned utmost respect from her superiors, I have no doubt that if she wanted to carry a revolver they would allow it. Creative license also allows you to create special rounds for this weapon that wouldn’t work in the standard issue firearm, like rounds that are actually tracking devices (a nod to the round used by Togusa in Ghost in the Shell) or you could create a fuel air explosive (FAE) round for her. Google it, I’ll link a video at the very bottom, they are incredible. Check the links below:
https://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=667&category=Revolver&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=41
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge
I picture Peggy’s Mission load out as whatever sniper rifle you give her for her primary mission functions. She can easily have an assault rifle within easy reach (being on a team of supers weight is only an issue for what she herself needs to carry). If this assault rifle were the P90 then her ammo pool for the 5.7 is bottomless, effectively. Both the P90 and the 5.7 are highly accurate at ranges of engagement where the sniper rifle and the revolver would be less appropriate. The P90 would be for more target rich engagements due to the higher rate of fire and the selectable fire modes. The 5.7 would be better suited for when she has to ‘get dirty’ by moving into close range to provide distraction / cover for the supers or is engaging single targets at medium range. The revolver allows her to have power that can “go through someone who’s face is as tough as an engine block”.
My question is, how accurate is Peggy? Is she realistic sniper elite or is she on the level with Zero from the X-Men ‘verse (he wasn’t a mutant, just gifted beyond parallel with any firearm)?
The Fuel Air Explosive (FAE), also known as a Thermobaric Weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeOHh8AoBM
She’s a very good shot, but she can still miss, she doesn’t have bullet kinesis or anything. She just has an affinity for guns in general. She can pick up almost any quality weapon and put a few rounds through it and have a pretty good chance of hitting some difficult shots. So all this hand wringing about what gun she likes is a fun discussion but I think as long as I chose something reasonable for her and as someone mentioned, tack on the word “custom” or “modified” I’ll be ok whatever I pick.
Quite honestly, if her only explanation for why it’s that particular pistol is “It just feels right!”, that’s perfectly fine. Because it’s sometimes just not possible to explain as to why you’re better with one gun than with others other than with that short sentence. If you’re happy with your gun, the results will show that.
The Taurus Judge is cool and all (and I want one myself) but from how I’ve used it, it wouldn’t be very effective as far as ‘government issue’ would go. The .410 rounds spread too much and don’t keep most of their momentum, so you’d have problems killing someone from across a long hallway (the best way I’ve used it is as a snake shooter in the desert) and the barrels are usually too short for any accurate, long range targets (30m.) Subjectively, it’s a lot better for home defense.
Well, I don’t know much about guns but with someone as talented as her you may want to go custom option.
Gunsmith being one of her talents, yes? Then she can make what she wants with the nigh unlimited buget that comes along with superhero organizations. For looks, well, I like the idea of using the Hellboy movies as a visual suggestion, ofcourse he had an iron hard grip so his guns represented that. What may be more important is something that is more universal type of gun that has visual apeal. It’s the rounds that matter and quick load, quick set up for a different type of target. So, I think that for the hardware the custom look is the only way to go. That way you don’t have to sweat it if it doesn’t look right. Another visual representation that was pleasing to me was the guns out of Wanted. Those custom beauties. May look cool but who knows, may not be practical.
What would be accurate in a pistol? or Rifle? isn’t it the rifling and the skill that went into the barrel and loads that makes the difference. So if you have a nano rifling to get the round to spin really fast wouldn’t that be more accurate? As long as the barrel is hyper straight too. From what I understand it’s the bullet and the rifling and the straightness of the barrel (some would also say the length) that matters. Visually, what is pleasing. You can have a genius inventor discuss the specifics of it as to why it’s hyper accurate.
Matrix
that is a interesting question. Yes the barrel is important what it does is it spins or twist the round stabilizing the bullet so it reach the target. if the bullet is spun to much or too little it will have a higher chance to miss because the round is unstable. Heat or Cold can place strain the gun or the barrel itself but technology is fixing that so it is not so great effect anymore. Each bullet requires a certain amount of spin some guns you can shorten or change the barrel without destabilizing the round.
There is a lot of formulas for gun science.
She’s not a master gunsmith. She knows gunsmithing but she’s not the gun equivalent of that dude from Kill Bill with all the swords.
For a good mix of stopping power and short-to-mid-range accuracy, I like the Mateba Model 6 Unica Autorevolver. It’s also a very unique-looking weapon, and is available in a variety of calibers (Togusa of “Ghost in the Shell” uses a .357 snubnose; Vash the Stampede’s custom job chambers .45 Long Colt). The big drawback is that quite a lot of people don’t know it’s an actual real gun that exists, and will think it’s a “Trigun” reference.
Alternately, any pistol that can chamber the .454 Casull round, like the Ruger Super Redhawk, the Taurus Raging Bull, or Alucards sexy, sexy custom pistol in “Hellsing”. It uses a small rifle primer instead of a pistol primer, and is intended for large game hunting and protection against mountain lions and bears. It will put a hole in a thing.
OK, completely serious and real.
.22Cal Long Rifle ammo, Magnum. Something custom, of course, semi-auto with good springs for recoil absorption.
You may ask, “.22cal? That is so tiny.” but really put that in the eye (or mouth, or nose, heck shes a top shot, EAR CANAL) and down they go. The bullet will bounce around in the skull, not having sufficient power too exit the other side of the skull (usually), making it almost always a kill.
Oh, I forgot too mention the Accuracy advantage of a sub-caliber like the .22cal. Far superior then any thing else on the market.
I’m reminded of a Mad magazine bit on Hockey:
“The goalie stands in front of the net – he’s covered in protective armor all over his body except for a 1″ slot over his throat. What’s the goal of Hockey? Hit the goalie in the throat.”
Since pretty much eeveryone and their brothers have weighed in on the gun question, I’ll just ask if Sydney realizes that people who see invisible people have a much more common name than “superhero”. And they are usually found in the same locations that the people who call themselves “super-villains” wind up in. That would be the local “Home for the Mentally Disturbed” :-D
(P.S: Para-Ordinance P14-45 on the hip with a Browning Hi-Power 9mm under the arm. Ammo to burn in both cases! )
If you are going with military issue you are looking at either a M9 (Beretta 92) or a SIG P228 (I’m pretty sure those are the two most common. After that you might see a SOCOM 45. Revolvers are nice but military folks rarely carry them as they are bulky and have a higher tendency to get hung up on other things. Doubly so for when you want to carry concealed. I’m not saying you can’t carry a revolver concealed but you tend to have smaller calibers or cylinders in revolvers that are designed to be concealed.
Realistically, in a military context, a pistol is the thing you use if you lack a real weapon. If Peggy is an expert with pistols, it’s because she likes shooting pistols, not because it’s a job requirement. Which pistol she likes depends on what philosophy of pistols she subscribes to, which as you can see from this discussion varies quite a bit, and from just how much weight she’s willing to carry around. Also, it’s quite possible that bullet performance against bullet resistant supers is different from bullet performance against kevlar vests, which may adjust the logic.
CZ75, one of the wonder-nines and a nice, subtle Gunsmith Cats reference.
Failing that a simple 1911A1.
Instead of going for the latest and greatest hi-tech shooting gear, have her use something old-school standard-issue that says “the gun is the tool. The skills are the weapon.”
Peggy, being an expert, will have seriously held, probably stubborn, possibly mule-headed opinions about her guns. I will not argue with her, there’s no point in that, but some observer’s suggestions follow.
More can be done to tune automatics than revolvers, but revolvers are usually more accurate from the factory. Automatics have more ways to fail than revolvers, but if a revolver does fail, you need a trained gunsmith, automatics are much simpler to fix. People have been declaring the revolver obsolete since @ 1900. People have been declaring the automatic unreliable for about as long. So far, both have been wrong.
Peggy’s fondness for the .338 Lapua rifle shows she is pretty fearless about recoil. At 5’4″ she may or may not find high capacity automatics hard to grip correctly, with their fat magazines. She’s likely to favor .45 acps. If she likes high capacity, the Para Ordinance P14 would be good, if not, the classic Colt 1911, in either case tuned to the max. Both are similar looking, (being closely related) and fairly simple to draw. A Glock in .40 S&W is even easier to draw, and another very good high capacity choice.
For the boomer, the Taurus Judge is a possibility. It can chamber .45 Colt or .410 shotshells, and unlimited funny cartridges in either caliber, but isn’t super-powerful. If you really want a super-magnum, a Smith & Wesson .500, Ruger Redhawk .480 or anything in .454 Cassul would work. Any of those would be heavy, loud, and uncomfortable to fire, but they are all actually too powerful to use on normal humans, so would give you some sort of chance against augmented “supervilian” types.
Peggy is going to be such fun!
Look into the 9mm Walther P-99 polyresin model. Lightweight, comfortable, adjustable, decently accurate. If you need a larger caliber, it also comes in .40 s&w.
Ok, Peggy just became my favorite character.
I wouldn’t have her use a custom pistol at all. She has an entire super facility from which to pick weapons. Let her have whatever she needs for the mission. Pistols are what you use to fight with to get to the real weapons. Have the pistol fit her personality. And, bluntly, at the scale of the drawing, with her hand around it, unless its a close up, the reader will probably not be able to tell what type of pistol it is unless there is a reason to exaggerate the picture. Go for style, not substance. Modern hollow point ammo is of roughly the same effectiveness no matter the caliber between 9mm and .45 cal. Or, let her load her own ammo….people do that. Have her pistol chambered for her own personal caliber.
Are you looking for speed and accuracy, or, given what she may be up against, reload speed. For reload speed, pistol. If it’s speed and accuracy, go for a revolver, it will shoot as fast as you can pull the hammer back and pull the trigger. To see specifically what I am talking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3vkWlxCSVA
Of for those of you who don’t trust links, on google or youtube look up Stan Lee’s Superhumans Quick Draw – Bob Munden. You don’t need be a super to have the speed and accuracy needed to take one out.
you can’t go wrong with a colt but there are several ways to go about this, you can go with one that is ment for accuracy and one that is less accurate but with alot more stopping power and concidering what she would have to deal with on a regular basis that seems the more likly choice, unless she has a third hidden gun ment for stopping supers of all types.
I would recommend either a Desert Eagle, a standard in US Military, the marines particularly like it or a Sig Sauer. I’ve known a lot of armed personnel to buy these out of their money above standard issue weapons, highly reliable and surprisingly accurate. It’s probably more what you’re looking for. The Sigs with the longer barrels have a tad more accuracy.
Well I happen to be a horrible gun nut, draw some, and know alot of police officers so here is my take on pistols. As practical goes, police officer typicaly know what is best to carry since they it all day. The way they most offen interact with there pistols is to load, decock, put it on, and Try not to forget about them being on there hips. I think the ritual of decock a pistol before patrol is part of the reason why the Double action Sig P226 is so popular. It has a decocking lever that rests the hammer down so in case you drop the pistol.. it won’t go off, but when you do need to use it, you just pull back the trigger cocking itself.
It’s really bad mojo for a police officer to loose there gun, (since they had to buy it themselfs usualy,) so they usualy will over the course of the day make sure they still are strapped in.) It will sometimes get unstrapped in there cars, or when seated.) Police holsters are preatty good at keeping pistols in place so its unlikely it will drop out of place should it become unstrapped… so whatever you do, never call a police officer out on there gun being straped.. it’s not there falt if it did happen, and they will get around to fixing it.
But still if your carrying around a Glock you always hear about that one guy that shot himself with his glock because he dropped it.. All glocks are wierd btw.. Each shot is double action, and there is no safty to render the gun unarmed. How Glocks became the number one choose of police duty pistols is beyound me when you think about how the gun lacks all the standard safty features.. (Glocks of course have those trigger tabs that do a fairly good job of keep accidental discharge from happening.. but I still read about it happening once or twice..)
Only Swat Officers do fallow those princible because they have to use there firearms daily to do there jobs. Swat guys rairly need to actually shoot there pistols though.. usualy they have there primary firearm.. After 911 the feds made it extreamly easy for almost any police station in the US to get its hands on a full auto M4 carbine. (Technicaly they are machine guns.. but they really are carbines in they are so easy to use for most people, and really light on recoil.) The M4 look alikes you will see in a patrol car are usaly civilian style AR-15s on collapsable stocks. The M4s you see swat using are almost always govement refurbished M-16s that might of been used by infantry or special forces.. You can usualy tell since infantry got the rifles with 3 rounds bursts marked into the reciever with special forces rifles can do full auto.. This is a preatty good primary weapons system and is vary easy to refresh with a few accessories.
Another reason the swat guys like the M4 because .223 rounds are the least likly rifle round to overpentration in a gun fight. (Overpentration is big scary word to SWAT guys..) Even the sniper is worried about overpenetration and will not carry A sniper rifle that much bigger the a .308… Swat snipers rairly having to shoot over 100 yards.
Swat guys also rairly use a shotguns. In the past they used them alot and they might of used them to defeat a lock, but last few years with the swat van becoming so big and armored Swat teams have taken to just using hooks and winches on the swat vans to rip off doors. Plus with any department that asked for M4 machine guns, and armored swat vans preatty much got them. Shotguns also tend to be discurraged from use as they are a liablity to use in a hostage situation, (Hostage full of buck shot is a failure.) and the slug from one will penetrate drywall.
If there is a shield carryer still in the group, that guy will usualy have a revolver to carry with his shield since any rubbing of the slide on the shield will jam there gun. Shield carryers are still kinda important since most hard door swing inward, and the entry team need someone to cover while they smash the door in. (but once in the entry guys can drop the shield, and battering ram, and switch to M4 just like the rest of the team since a shield is difficult to manuver indoors.)
So as far as pistols go I guess almost any pistol will do. I did Practical pistol shooting for a while and became proficent with a Browning Hi power in 9mm. Most of those shooters tended to be police officers so I saw a reasonably wide varity of shooters.. Glocks, Sigs, my Hi-power where all where good chooses for one reason or another at those matches.. but the most common choose was the M1911.
Practical pistol shooting heavily concentrates on speed reloading.. You could not go 6 rounds without a manditory reload on some stages making M1911 a vary practical choose for those matches. After all if you can hit 3 targets 2 times, you might as well practice on the next big problem with the sport which is fast reloading..
the other advantage to using a M1911 is there is not so much wieght from ammuntion in the gun. The m1911 is a suprisingly light gun because your only carrying 8 rounds of ammo in addtion to the gun. That makes it vary easy to shoot it fast. A glock with 15 rounds of .45 ammo feels vary sluggish to move untill you start to empty the clip.
It’s all like trap shooting where you know there is only two birds.. and if you miss them chances are even if you have the spare shot to fire your not going to hit it.
Oh my god.. I am vary sorry.. I just started typing and did not realise it got so long…
So, guns are your “veganism”.
Don’t worry, we understand. ;-D
+1
carbine…. M4 carbine….. come on say it with me ……caaaaarrrrrrrbbbbbiiiiinnnnneeeee…. machine gun is almost always one that is belt feed
I know that, if I were looking to have to shoot at supers, I’m not sure I’d care as much about the guns themselves so much as the ammo. Anything reliable (modern semi-autos) would be good. Mostly you’d want a mixture of very fast ammo, and slower stuff. Big guns, probably, though those glocks have nice utility rails and things, too. Mostly, though, you need something for big, slow targets to take them down, and something for fast ones. After that, she might have a third, backup revolver that she uses when she needs to load very specific stuff.
For a standard, accurate, reliable, military-ish semi-auto handgun in .45 cal, a Glock 21 would be an excellent choice. Holds 13 rounds in a standard magazine, and many police and military agencies carry them. I personally prefer the Glock 17, which is basically the 9mm version of the Glock 21 (or vice versa). It holds 17 rounds in a standard magazine and has less recoil. Both guns are about as accurate as production semi-auto handguns get, within the limitations of their respective calibers.
Both also have a wide variety of aftermarket parts available, so that if Peggy felt like customizing her gun, she could do just about anything she wanted to it. Lighter trigger, longer barrel, different sights, bigger magazines, lights and/or lasers, whatever. There’s even a Glock pistol bayonet, but I think that’s more for humor than anything else.
For a powerful revolver-type weapon, the first thing that comes to mind is the Smith & Wesson Model 500. It holds five .500 cal rounds that could easily kill a grizzly bear. The barrel comes in 4, 6.5, 8 3/8, and 10 inch lengths, and the gun quite heavy to offset the significant recoil. I don’t know much about what possible customization options are available specifically for the 500, but fairly standard revolver mods include lightened triggers, grips, sometimes optics (scopes or sights).
How bout this for a side arm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXECU3YKMfI&feature=related
The metal storm pistol has four barrels carrying up to 6 9mm bullets in each barrel, can be hand loaded, can not jam, ever, can be fitted to fire any type of round as long as they have been modified to fire using the electric ignition system. Highly accurate, high stopping power, ridiculous rate of fire. And it looks really intimidating when your staring down FOUR freaking barrels.
The one thing I’ve always wondered about those weapons was hao easy, or hard is it to reload?
Is the extra rate of fire really an issue in a handgun context? It seems as if a MetalStorm on full auto would run through its ammunition so fast that all the shots would end up in the same hole at human rates of movement. Which is fine on the target range, or if you want to hammer through some plate, but not much use for ‘normal’ applications. Also, would there not be a very significant change in the accuracy and feel of the weapon as you work down the barrel? The first shot would have several inches less of barrel to traverse, and would therefore have that much less opportunity for acceleration and rifling. And by losing the mass from the front end of the barrel, you’d change the balance of the gun, potentially quite significantly.
So this brings us back to comic #1. Would invisible targets be immune to killer beams of light? I think so!
Depends on how they go about being invisable.
yep, and even if its Optic Camo, it depends on both how effective it is at moving light “around” the user, and how strong the light based attack is / if the invisibility only applies to visible light. Such as you can bend visible light but ultraviolet and infrared still see you. Conversly a strong enough laser also has heat so you may avoid being “sliced” but not burnt with out another defense.
Like the RPG rules say, cloaking/invisibility is an evasion move not a defensive one.
I have no opinion or useful knowledge on guns, I just wanted to commend you on your stance against the urban myth that ending a sentence with a preposition goes against grammar. And, while we’re at it, there’s also nothing grammatically wrong with splitting infinitives.
HALO P0WN3D POINT TO THE NORM PEGGY