Grrl Power #1039 – High Int, middling comedy stat
Yes, they’re drinking Louis XIII cognac over ice. I guess Deus is actually evil.
Look, I’ve never been a big drinker. I didn’t know that was bad. I like my drinks cold unless I’m specifically after something hot on a cold day like cider/tea/hot chocolate. I basically never drink anything that’s room temperature if I can avoid it. I know, the ice dilutes the booze. I’m tempted to fire back with “ice dilutes everything except water and also hydrochloric and sulfuric acid where it actually makes it into stronger acid, at least temporarily” but I get there’s a difference between $1.25 worth of soda and $4,000 cognac. Maybe the ice cubes pictured are actually cognac colored cold glass or something. Like they have liquid nitrogen in them? That’d probably be too cold and would also fuck up the alcohol. To which I’m tempted to say that I would never personally be inclined to spend $4,000 on something so delicate there’s no way I wouldn’t fuck it up somewhere between the bottle and my mouth. Even if someone just handed me a glass, I’d drink it and be like “Congratulations, it tastes like booze. I’d rather have the money and glass of tea.”
Now what was I… oh, right, the comic.
This reveal is hardly a big twist. A lot of people were speculating that Deus was a super of some sort.
I’ve got another book series to recommend, which someone pitched a page or two ago. One of my favorite stories is “Upon a Savage Shore” (NSFW link to Literotica, BTW) which unfortunately isn’t available in novel form anywhere for some reason. But I’m a sucker for xenoanthropology for some reason. This one I’m recommending is… not that, but it’s slightly reminiscent of UaSS. I guess because it’s third person and switches PoV from the humans to the aliens and half the time they’re all thinking “they’re so odd.”
Anyway, it’s called The Vixen War Bride, and it takes place after a human/alien war, and the humans won and are occupying the alien planet in a “let’s rebuild Japan” sort of way, not a “keep the alien scum down” sort of way. Well, results vary depending on where you are on the world, but at the base that deals with the primary characters in the series, there’s a solid attempt at diplomacy. Not to spoil anything, but nobody speaks the other side’s language particularly skillfully, and… well, read the title of the book there.
I’m slightly miffed that the aliens in the series are just humans with fox ears and tails, I think most of you know that I like my aliens slightly more alien than that, but reading between the lines of the novel, I’m guessing there might be a reason for it? Dunno. Speculation on my part. Anyway, I went through the three available novels in 4 days, and I think the 4th novel is no more than a month or two out, based on the release schedule of the prior books. I wouldn’t categorize these as action thrillers exactly, but there is more going on in them than just talking and people being diplomatic. Just FYI. Check out Dungeon Crawler Carl or Star Justice if you need something more punchy shooty.
April Vote Incentive is up! Looks like someone had better make sure their life insurance includes acts of Snu Snu.
Alternate versions over at Patreon include less cloth-y versions as usual, but also some of those color changing chokers.
Her shirt, since no one has figured out the kanji yet, says “I ahegao you. (As long as you ahegao me.)”
Double res version will be posted over at Patreon. Feel free to contribute as much as you like.
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SeriouslySeriously you guys. If you like Grrl Power the check these out.
"Mature"Mature subject matter and occasionally something explicit but usually safe. Can't guarantee the ads are safe though.
Dongs Ahoy!Full frontal and backal. Lots of skin, sex on some or all pages, explicit or otherwise.
wow, he looks like he is, well, making his pants stained.
Deus do like his little thunderclicker.
I cannot wait for the scene where someone gets chucked through that window and hits the clicker
He remembered to turn the power switch on, too.
huh, so he really was a super and his power was Super Intelligence. I’m guessing he is basically a walking super computer then, or 20.
Is it just me, or does Deus have a noticible third eye in these panels that wasn’t there before?
I thought the same.
Maybe it’s just a muscle spasm in anticipation of a change to ‘Bring the ‘Thunder!’
Then again, Dave may surprise us by giving Deus a third eye or a venthole for the excess heat, this being produced when he uses his Super Intelligence.
Just like (super) computers and Nanotech, human brains are susceptible to overheating.
Yeah, gotta say, it’s in two panels, so it pretty much has to be deliberate.
He’s a Sanjiyan Unkara, rather than strictly human?
I need more Pai in my life…
Another Dave surprise with that forehead bump. If it were something related to boosting or facilitating increased use of brain power, I think there have been past pages where circumstances would have resulted in its appearance. I suggest this is manifestation of another of his abilities. I’ve always wondered about how he manages to surround himself with very accommodating almost subservient people when their personality, demeanor and attitude seem to make them anything but, in relation to others. Even a strong personality like Deus who, in many regards acts like an asshat. I also don’t like the way he’s giving Max that sideways, almost evil look in the last panel as if he something untoward planned for her. I think that whatever in going to appear on his forehead is some kind hypnotic eye or some other type of mind control organ and Max is next in line to become one of his inner circle sycophants. Prediction: if it doesn’t have an instant effect she may be able to use super speed to get away from or disable Deus. Lot of other divergent possibilities. Dave never fails to introduce interesting plot twists and other fascinating story developments.
Maxima said pretty early on that her powers make her immune to mind control, and mind reading and the like. Its part of why she is trusted with so much that would be beyond the level of a Lt. Colonel.
If Deus has some sort of mind control ability, which I doubt, she would probably be immune. I think Deus is just a rich guy that is a little grating but ultimately charismatic. He certainly has the power and influence and knowledge to back up everything he says.
She havent said anything of the sort.
We have been told she is more resistant than should be expected. Thats about it.
I don’t recall an earlier mention, and this one seems to imply resistance more than outright immunity. Was there another? https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-741-high-level-meeting/
I don’t find him charismatic. He’s got a fancy suit, plenty of money, an above-average level of intelligence and a good plan to keep people working for him. But he’s Not charming. He’s too arrogant, smug and rather ugly, in my opinion.
It’s a forehead wrinkle, not an easter egg.
Dammit!
The illuminati lizard people are real! No wonder Deus knows so much about the N-th tech. He’s one of them!
Minds blown!
So you say now ;)
It’s Not A Tumah!
Darn, I was ready for that pineal gland to come popping through ala “From Beyond”.
Poor Dave, just a quirk of drawing and everyone thinks it’s a secret thingamabob.
I thought forehead bumps were wider. I think the issue is its so small and nestled into the yet to be explained scar.
I scrolled back up to double-check, and there was a speck of dirt on my screen that wound up in exactly the right position to look like a pupil. I freaked for a bit.
Fun fact: whiskey stones and the like are all, universally, shit.
They don’t do anything to properly cool down the liquid they’re in, by the simple laws of thermodynamics. Ice does that specifically because it releases cold water into the liquid.
And you also have a big heavy rock in your drink that risks smashing into your teeth every time you take a sip.
why not make a shot-glass out of a heatsink?
Fun fact; ice doesn’t cool by releasing water into what it cools.
It cools by using the heat differential between the ice and liquid to heat up and melt the ice.
‘Whiskey stones’ made of rock would suck, yeah. But more because of the grit than anything else.
Get one of metal, and put it in the freezer for a day, then plop it into your drink.
The thing is actually that ice takes a comparative buttload of energy to melt (334 J of energy per gram of ice at 0°C aka the latent heat of melting), so can cool a lot of mass down without heating up itself.
The whiskey stones I have do seem to cool my drink somewhat actually. Maybe not as good as an actual ice cube might, but I can still notice the difference between using them and not using them. The hitting your teeth issue is annoying though when not careful, but only becomes an issue near the end, not on every sip since the stones are heavy and sit at the bottom and don’t float like ice does.
A lot of the cooling power of ice is in the phase transition from solid to liquid sucking up energy. The fact this cooling is also slow-release as the ice melts probably helps.
Tho you can address that by just encasing the ice in something with enough room or elasticity that the ice doesn’t break it. There are plastic ice cubes that work like that, been years but iirc they worked fine.
If I want to chill my drink without having ice dilute it, I’d usually have the bottle chilled and sometimes the glass to keep it cold while I drink it.
Part of the reason to use ice is that as it melts it dilutes the alcohol. This releases some of the molecules in the whiskey that are otherwise bound up by the alcohol so that they evaporate and give it more flavor than just “hey, this is really strong booze”. The same can be accomplished by adding a few drops of water.
I used to have a few plasticky ones that were filled with water, and you could freeze them.
You’d get basically a regular ice cube, but completely wrapped in bubblegum pink plastic.
Best thing ever, shame the plastic eventually broke.
Not just super intelligent but super initiative and resources at this point.
Deus has waited his whole life to press that button.
And even longer to use it with Max.
Panels 6 & 7 make me lol a bit at his childish glee of being able to spring this on Max and watching her face. Truly there are some things money can’t buy, although as O’Henry taught us – it can sure help arrange for them to happen.
Hadn’t seen that O. Henry story before, and I have a fat anthology of his stuff. Thanks!
One of my favorites. Also quite fond of The Ransom of Red Chief (one of his most famous) and A Retrieved Reformation.
You can actually get free public domain ebooks of nearly all his works on Project Gutenburg, those two are in Whirligigs and Roads of Destiny. There are also quite a few free audiobook versions on LibriVox.
Called it.
Dang. I was so hoping it was time travel shenanigans.
Which admittedly it still could be if in the future, his super intelligence lets him create time travel to send back information from the future. But I was wishing it was more of a Layla from X-Factor Investigaitons or David Xanatos thing :)
To be fair, super Intelligence was pretty likely, considering he had a habit of knowing far too much, on top of having an obvious Super-esque build. So, he was obviously a super and given his knowledge it was either super Intelligence or Super Knowledge. Sure he could have had some other kind of power, but then how did he figure out obvious alien tech that easy?
“To be fair, super Intelligence was pretty likely,”
I know. I was just hoping Time travel shenanigans were involved. Still might be so I’m not giving up hope.
“Sure he could have had some other kind of power, but then how did he figure out obvious alien tech that easy?”
I know. I agree. Although time travel shenanigans could have explained that as well. :)
oh god dues being a big dork :D
Unless you have the power to back it up super intelligence is just super frustrating. Nobody pays for just being smart.
When people ask ‘which super hero would you want to be?’ I always answer “Tony Stark.”
depends on your level.
1.5 times smarter than Einstein.
Hyper frustrating, but nothing dangerous.
As smart as the combined advisory team of a mediocre cooperation.
You could allow cooperation to save tons on computing eQuipment, you could hack some major infrastructure
As smart as an entire university.
You could attempt to refine current (weather, economic, etc.) models and base your investments on events only you can see coming.
If you were REALLY super-intelligent, you wouldn’t focus on proving it out of the gate. You’d acquire resources, secure backing, plan/scheme your way into power, and THEN prove it once you have sufficient resources and loyalty.
A truly super-intelligent person wouldn’t be a nerd in glasses begging for attention. They’d be a fit, confident, handsome/beautiful billionaire with successful businesses and enterprises, and they’d ensure everyone was better off with them than without or against them.
So… they’d be Deus.
That does rely on the super intelligence being paired with a mind that has at least average social skills and an reasonable appreciation of tactics.
So a neat thing is that whiskey stones exist– small rock cubes that retain cold for a long time and don’t shed minerals. You put them in the freezer, then put them in booze to make it cold without diluting it. I have no doubt Deus owns some.
Seriously, Deus needs his own Spin-off comic! Hands down he is the best character in this comic!
You are clearly a person of refined taste and excellent judgment, with unparalleled intelligence and are obviously incredibly handsome as well.
Btw, nice post. :)
Sorry, but anyone drinking $4000 brandy, chilled, in a shot glass isn’t a super intelligence… unless he’s REALLY trying to wind up Max, and frankly she doesn’t strike me as that well grounded in issues of that sort. She’s out of her depth with Deus and doesn’t appear to realise it.
A high Int score can substitute for a high Wis score to some extent, but they’re not interchangeable.
Genuinely intelligent people who can afford good booze try it every which way and then do what they like best, not what Boozy Twat Magazine recommends.
It could be $4000 an ounce and I don’t think he’d care any more than you would care about a fountain pop. He’s supposed to be Jeff Bezos level wealthy at a minimum.
If you have a net worth of $400,000, and you spent $1.20 on a fountain drink, someone with that level of wealth could spend $300,000 on something and have spent the same percentage of his net worth.
I don’t think he’s as wealthy as Jeff Bezos but you could be right. :) Gonna check the math on this.
He was, at least as of when he first arrived in Galytn, by himself the world’s 97th biggest GDP. Assuming that happened in 2008 (roughly a decade before about 2018, when this comic probably takes place if I’m basing it on Obama being President), that means his wealth was between the GDP of Bahrain and the DRC about 10 years before the comic’s time period – approximately 34 billion dollars. I’m actually using 2010 for the numbers because I can’t find anything that would be 2008 GDP listings, but that still… barely.. works for Obama being president 10 years later.
While Jeff Bezos was only worth a mere $8.2 billion in 2008 and $12.6 billion in 2010 (Amazon was not nearly as huge in 2008-2010), today, Bezos is worth $180 billion (Elon Musk is actually the world’s richest person, with a net worth of $274.3 billion). Just as a visual aid, $180 billion in 2022 GDP terms just under Algeria, at #54 on the GDP list, while Elon is JUST below that of the nation of Chile (GDP of $277 billion) at #42.
That being said, if Jeff Bezos could go from about $8-13 billion in 2011 to $180 billion in 2022, then Deus probably could do the same and maybe even surpass Elon if we’re talking 2022 money (Mozambique is only a GDP of about $12 billion today).
Plus Deus’s COMPANY, Machina Industries or whatever it’s called, is probably worth a LOT more than that, just as Amazon is worth well over $1 trillion (the first company to ever be worth that much).
Incorrect.
Adjusted for inflation, the East India Corporation(You know, the one that had a standing army of around 200,000 and like 10 warships, and was essentially the British Empire’s colonization arm) was worth around 5.5 trillion dollars at its peak.
“Adjusted for inflation” (and currency) being the operative clause there, plus the difference between a fully private company and one incorporated into an arm of Government.
Not adjusting for inflation and currency, I’m sure there have been thousands of trillion-dollar companies prior to Amazon. Hyperinflated Zimbabwean dollars…
You do realize the East India Company (not East India Corporation) was an individual person. Whereas Deus is an individual person and is INDIVIDUALLY the 97th largest GDP at the time when he got involved in Galytn.
But now I realize you’re sayin that the East India Company was worth well over $1 trillion. It wasnt actually, but you’re adjusting for inflation over a period of 400 years. That’s not exactly a fair comparison at that point. Especially since the East India Company was actually called the ‘Governor and Company of Merchants of London Trading in the East-Indies Company.’ Because it was not a fully independent company like Amazon is – it was essentially an extension of the Crown (namely the Queen, who granted a Royal Charter to the Earl of Cumberland and 215 knights, Aldermen, and Burgesses), which was a majority holder of its stock.
It would be, by modern equivalents, closer to what Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac are – ‘companies’ that are quasi-governmental organizations.
Correction to my post:
Was an individual person = was NOT an individual person
My bet is earlier, 2016-2017 since the mexican president in the NAFTA/whatever conference is a somewhat young dude and not the current one. Mexican president change was in 2018
In any case, it can’t be before 2015 and can’t be later than 2020. I just chose 2018 arbitrarily because it’s roughly in the middle of those two years.
BUT you’re probably correct that it’s a little earlier, like 2016-2017 since the comic we see Obama in April 2015,
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-314-contrition-condition/
and the episode of Macroeconomics was January 2016.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-386-aggrandizer-x/
So yes, it’s more likely 2016-2017 and not 2018. Good catch.
Like I said, leave it as is, that Deus is a poser when it comes to his wealthy tastes.
I always did think Deus was very intelligent. Never thought it would be at super levels.
Eh, super intelligent and the subtlety of a sledge hammer to the groin, which makes him seem a lot less intelligent. I would find some weird form of precognition much more believable.
Oh, and now he officially is Lex Luthor with extra steps.
Well, just like if you’ve got super strength you have a hard time giving a normie a firm handshake without crushing their hand, and you’re kind of vague on exactly how strong people’s bones are, so you end up with these limp wristed handshakes that give the wrong impression just to be on the safe side…
If you’re super-intelligent, you have a bit of trouble calibrating what other people would view as subtle vs utterly baffling, so you tend to error in the direction of bluntness just to be sure people understand.
Half the people around him probably don’t even realize that, when he looks like he’s being an idiot, he’s just having fun being ironic or giving them a hard time for laughs.
Lol, super intelligent and pretentious as well?
But seriously, does that make her the Super(Wo)man to his Lex Luthor?
Interesting dynamic if that’s the case, seeing as they have history
…at the risk of being pedantic…I see no explicit confirmation, and there are serious advantages to allowing people to believe you are potentially the smartest person on Earth, when you are not. For starters, it encourages them to waste phenomenal amounts of resources countering things that you’re not doing, distracts them with their own paranoia, and causes them to anticipate countermeasures you’ve never even thought of, let alone deployed, leading to a “he’ll have already anticipated that, it’ll never work” spiral.
Induced analysis paralysis.
Which is still a galaxy-brain level move in its own right.
“Now that zey know our plan, zey will plan around our plans. And so ve shall in turn plan around ze plan zat zey are planning around our plan!”
So Deus is in fact Ozymandias…
Nah. Ozymandias’s route was involving killing a LOT of innocent civilians.
Both have great hair though.
Your point is very wise and convincing.
Hmmm.Hmm.. I was guessing since type of precognition, but I guess being smart enough to predict the future with some degree of accuracy works too.
Maybe I’m not connecting the dots properly, but did Deus just reveal he is a super with his ability being that his intelligence is boosted? Thus his reason for sharing all this information is to have the goodwill of countries and not be marked and taken out as a huge threat?
Now that he says that, Deus does track as a super intelligence. Despite having no obvious superpowers he is far too accomplished in multiple fields and he can blatantly place himself as a target in several senses without getting taken down.
So Deus is basically Ozymandias without the goddamn angst and a sense of fun? Jeez, man, you’d better have him kick some puppies soon or I may have to like him.
Deus is the most dangerous villain. One that makes sense. Short of wanting to turn Earth into a galactic breeding pen to sell super powered slaves, I’m with him.
I’m going to probably have to parse this out into several posts because it’s giving the comment program a conniption fit with how long my posts can become. It keeps giving Internal Errors when I hit ‘post comment.’
Part 1:
Also one that is not a villain. Because he’s not doing anything villainous.
I’ve never really understood the concept that anyone has against Deus by calling him a villain, as if that’s some sort of ‘state of being’ instead of based on ones intents and the actions used to bring about those intents.
1) Deus’s intents are, for all purposes, not evil. Yes, he wants to be in charge, but that’s ambition, not evil. To those who say ‘ambition is the root of all evil’ – no. Being ambitious is REQUIRED for a non-stagnant society. Without ambition, there is no advancement. No inventions. No discovery. No progress. It’s the same concept in how greed is not inherently evil, if you just use greed and ambition as meaning roughly the same thing in a broad view.
There are two types of ambition. Value capture and value creation. Deus is rather clearly focused on value CREATION.
If a person is motivated solely by personal achievement – more wealth, better titles, etc, then they are working towards CAPTURING value. They are looking at the world as a closed set. They want a ‘bigger cut of the pie’ as if there’s nothing outside of the pie, and for one person to get more, another person must get less or none.
This is, frankly, stupid, short-sighted, not even remotely accurate with how world economics or human progress works, and what one would REALLY consider ‘evil.’ It’s truly selfish pursuit.
Deus, on the other hand, is motivated by things on a much bigger scale. He is genuinely trying to make the world a better place. The fact that he’d be in charge happens to be part of that but if his being in charge would not make the world a better place, he likely would not have that as part of the plan. When you are motivated by things bigger than just yourself – making the world better, making life easier for even ONE other person, then you are creating value, not just seizing it. You are getting more of the pie by… making a bigger pie. That is how economics, and notably how capitalism when done by people who actually can think in terms of advancement, actually works.
That’s good ambition. That’s what Deus has.
Deus just invaded a country for personal gain.
Even if he does ultimately increase that population’s GDP he’s still taking away their right to self-determination. (And the people he killed and their families probably have fairly strong opinions on his actions)
The world is currently quite busy labeling someone who just did that IRL as evil.
The people in that country were already having their right to self-determination taken from them. Much like the first country he took over. At worst, he’s a tyrant who replaced two other tyrants.
Deus has made it VERY clear that he’d much rather negotiate and achieve win-win scenarios. He doesn’t unleash the violence unless the other party is being both stupid AND evil.
“The people in that country were already having their right to self-determination taken from them.”
Your evidence for this is?
“He doesn’t unleash the violence unless the other party is being both stupid AND evil.”
And your evidence for Mozambique being evil is? Remember, he’s said the entire world is his target and that he’s prepared to use aggressive war to enforce his will. Is every country in the world similarly evil?
“Your evidence for this is?”
The International Corruption Index and the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) on human rights.
On a scale from 0 to 100, with 100 being the most clean and free, and 0 being the most corrupt and violating basic human rights, Mozambique is at 26. That’s INCREDIBLY corrupt and NOT self-determination-friendly at all.
And if you’re asking for evidence about Galytn not having rights to self-determination, Deus had been filming Indinge Sr.’s atrocities for months so he could show it to his son, who he realized was ignorant of any of his father’s monstrous actions, since he basically lived in a gilded cage called the palace.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-392-one-liner-post-mortem/
(Panel #7 in particular)
“And your evidence for Mozambique being evil is?”
The International CPI for Mozambique being one of the lowest and most corrupt on the planet.
“Remember, he’s said the entire world is his target and that he’s prepared to use aggressive war to enforce his will.”
Wrong. He did not say that at all.
Most of it will be done through economics, NOT force. He’s going the Amazon route of becoming so useful that everyone wants to be part of his group or use what he’s offering. He plans on making his African Union an economic superpower on par with, or better than, the US or the EU or China. His current focus is on competing with China, as he’s mentioned MANY times. Not in war. In trade – specifically textiles.
He literally spelled this out, that it would NOT involve anything illegal. Mostly just guided economic snowballing. Even the few wars would be ‘perfectly legal war slash skirmishes’ And that would not be with major powers – it would likely be with horribly corrupt nations like Mozambique or Galytn, at which point he can improve their economy and infrastructure so that they WANT to have what we, in the first world nations, take for granted.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1025-military-industrial-simple/
(See Panel #1)
His goal is to build an ECONOMIC superpower in order to take over the world, not engage in wars and crush other nations. What you said in your post is a strawman that isnt indicative of what he said, because what he said is more difficult to argue against.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1024-a-squeaky-clean-leader/
(Panel #1)
“Deus just invaded a country for personal gain.”
No, not entirely for personal gain. It was to help all of Galytn, as well as the people of Mozambique on the Zambezi as well. The fact that he ALSO gained as a result does not mean he did it for personal gain. Like I said elsewhere in my post, Deus has ambition, but his ambition is based on value creation, not value capture.
Also, as I stated, the people in that region had been privately BEGGING Deus to come in to bring the infrastructure that he had brought to Galytn. Not to mention, Mozambique’s existnig government is horribly corrupt and the people in that region are horribly impoverished, with little to no hope for the future and rarely any self-determination unless they are lucky enough to be in the elite of the elite. Such as how about 1% of that region has electricity, but the major did not even bother acknowledging that shortcoming because he happened to be of that upper echelon.
“Even if he does ultimately increase that population’s GDP he’s still taking away their right to self-determination.”
I’m assuming you havent done much research on Mozambique before making that statement. They had little to no self-determination as is. If anything, Deus would BRING them the ability to have self-determination, just as he did for Galytn.
“The world is currently quite busy labeling someone who just did that IRL as evil.”
There is literally no comparison between Vladimir Putin and Deus in attitude, history, or philosophy. Might as well say that the American Revolution was evil because it took land away from another nation that possessed it. It’s about the same amount of similarity that the Founding Fathers had to Putin.
You literally admit he’s doing it for personal gain. Whatever other excuses you try to throw up don’t change that fact. And Deus has just admitted to Maxima his long term aim is world domination, to which the invasion of Mozambique is clearly the next step.
“I’m assuming you havent done much research on Mozambique before making that statement. They had little to no self-determination as is.”
The last election wasn’t great, but it’s still a functional democracy with universal suffrage, not a dictatorship with one man, one vote, and Deus is the man. Even with the electoral problems, undoubtedly a considerable part of the population supports the governing party (Frelimo) as that’s been true back to when the elections were considered roughly okay.
By comparison, let’s consider a recent western election which featured repeated (and ongoing) attempts by the incumbent to undermine the result, including by disenfranchising many areas with large minority populations, while extensive and ongoing attempts by the party of the incumbent to selectively disenfranchise minority voters have been well documented. Which culminated in an attempt by a mob, egged on by the incumbent, to seize the seat of government in order to prevent the electoral results being officially recorded, leading to multiple deaths. And then the party of the incumbent refused to allow him to be punished for his actions.
That’s just as disturbing as the issues in Mozambique, possibly more so, yet no one would suggest that would justify overthrowing the government of the United States. But somehow doing that in Africa is okay?
Your argument seems to be “they’re poor, so violent regime change and stripping them of the franchise doesn’t matter”. It’s a violation of international law, immoral, and ultimately, yes, it’s just plain evil.
I don’t know where this desperation to defend Deus is coming from, but the man openly admits he’s intent on subjugating the entire world: “a coalition of countries” “membership will be compulsory” “the occasional perfectly legal war*” “previous military and colonization efforts”.
“Mozambique’s existnig government is horribly corrupt”
The previous president of the US is under investigation for corruption in his tax affairs and trying to portray that as a political vendetta. Does that mean anyone can choose to invade the US?
Equally thirteen senators and congressmen have been convicted of various forms of corruption in the past decade, which seems to suggest a systematic corruption problem. Does that mean anyone can choose to invade the US?
” Such as how about 1% of that region has electricity”
You did notice it’s the Zambezi? Where do you think Mozambique gets its power? Hint, hydroelectricity. Overall 34% of the population has electricity, which isn’t adequate, but expanding that is a priority of the Mozambiquan government, which actually sells electricity to its population at a loss. (And 34% certainly isn’t 1%)
“Might as well says that the American Revolution was evil”
You’re aware of the theory that a considerable part of the motivation for the revolution was a belief that Parliament was about to pass a law outlawing slavery within the Empire?
* He needs a better lawyer, wars of aggression are illegal by definition.
“You literally admit he’s doing it for personal gain. Whatever other excuses you try to throw up don’t change that fact. ”
No. I admit that part of what happens is personal gain. But what he’s doing, he clearly has described as humanitarian efforts and going into areas where the inhabitants are privately begging him to come into. The brilliance of Deus is he always make sure that hie personal gains are inexorably tied to doing something that is humanitarian and liberating to others. It’s not ‘personal gain, then others get helped.’ It’s ‘others get helped so that I will eventually benefit.’
“And Deus has just admitted to Maxima his long term aim is world domination,”
He admits it quite willingly because nothing he’s admitting to is a crime. He wants to dominate the world via economics. He went out of his way to explain this in detail. I have now posted the links where he does SEVERAL times. Just read it okay?
“The last election wasn’t great, but it’s still a functional democracy with universal suffrage,”
You mean the MASSIVE corruption, bribery, disappearances and child conscription, and how the entire nation is, due to this corruption which is literally among the worst on the planet, horrifically impoverished? Not sure you and I have the same definition of functional. And an election rife with MASSIVE ELECTORAL FRAUD by the Frelimo party is not a great definition of ‘democracy’ either. Neither have all the political adversaries who have been murdered at the behest of the ‘ruling’ Mozambique government.
https://www.france24.com/en/20191030-mozambique-opposition-files-suit-against-massive-electoral-fraud
“Which culminated in an attempt by a mob, egged on by the incumbent, to seize the seat of government in order to prevent the electoral results being officially recorded, leading to multiple deaths. And then the party of the incumbent refused to allow him to be punished for his actions.”
God I hate when people start talking toxic politics. There was ONE person who was killed – and she was killed by a police officer. Have you been following the legal proceedings? The judge has been acquitting them because if you’re invited in, you by definition have not broken into the area.
And it’s not even comparable to what’s happened in Mozambique. Actual corruption. Actual election fraud on a massive scale.
“The previous president of the US is under investigation for corruption in his tax affairs and trying to portray that as a political vendetta.”
You might want to follow the case more closely. The Manhattan DA’s case has been unravelling and they keep losing in court.
https://www.salon.com/2022/04/08/manhattan-da-says-probe-still-alive-but-lawyers-are-delighted-at-whats-happening_partner/
It’s also in the Daily Beast but if I post more than 3 links I won’t be able to post without it getting moderated, so I chose Salon since that’s more left-leaning so I figured it would be more of a steelmanned argument.
It’s simply not comparable to political rivals dying in a hail of bullets like what’s happened in Mozambique.
“You did notice it’s the Zambezi? Where do you think Mozambique gets its power? Hint, hydroelectricity. Overall 34% of the population has electricity, which isn’t adequate, but expanding that is a priority of the Mozambiquan government, which actually sells electricity to its population at a loss. (And 34% certainly isn’t 1%)”
Nope. Also…
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1014-the-zambezi-high-club/
(Panel #5)
Less than one percent of hte population has access to that electricity.
“You’re aware of the theory that a considerable part of the motivation for the revolution was a belief that Parliament was about to pass a law outlawing slavery within the Empire?”
(rubs temples) The Founding Fathers did not revolt because the British were in the process of abolishing slavery. Several of the Founding Fathers themselves were abolitionists as well. They revolted because of a lack of representation for the colonies while they were being taxed heavily, as if they were less than other British citizens.
The LOVE of Money, is the root of all evil, as in the correct quote!!
I’m just steelmanning other people’s possible arguments. :)
Part 2:
2) If you are not actually doing anything villainous, and are in fact doing things that are good, then you are not actually a villain. In fact, one would have to look at the people CALLING you a villain and wonder why they are so gung-ho against your purposes. They might themselves be villainous. Or they might WANT to be villains and cannot conceive of being in your place without falling to villainy because they can only conceive one pie, being a certain unchangeable size.
3) Deus ‘knows things that he should not.’ This is also not inherently evil or villainous. Having knowledge is not inherently evil. Using knowledge is not inherently evil. Using knowledge to benefit yourself and your long term goals is not inherently evil.
Part 3:
4) In every single encounter I’ve seen Deus in in this comic, he always goes the peaceful, trading route FIRST. He always uses force as a last resort. He always directs that force at the worst possible people. He always tries to use that force with scalpel-like precision to cause the minimum possible harm, or no harm whatsoever, to anyone who isnt themselves out rightly evil. He always tries to make plans which would make evil people…. less evil. Maybe even good. Or at least where he can direct that evil towards a benevolent (“good”) goal. He goes into areas where others have begged for help, so it’s not just about his own personal wants (like in Mozambique, along the Zambeza).
He never seems to do anything worse than what the ‘superheroes’ (or those who we have arbitrarily called superheroes) do.
Consort with demons? ARCHON does that.
War? The US has done that, and Maxima has been a soldier. In war.
Also the demon Deus is working with is Thotogoth who I am fairly sure is a good guy.
“Also the demon Deus is working with is Thotogoth who I am fairly sure is a good guy.” How so!?
by demon standards preparing a slide show and proclaiming a desire to uplift humanity technologically and be part of the galactic community; and wants locals with more cultural knowledge to work along side his regime and basically manage humanity as a colony or principality is a tad more “good guy” than the usual invasion by demons you expect such as
-mass random slaughter, burning cities down for fun, grind up the humans to make into stew for your army, leaving behind a charred, ruined, and diseased world after a few decades of “hellish fun” before abandoning the festering pit to seek out a new world to “conquer”.
I don’t think Dabbler would have gone five rounds with a evil guy.
He seemed to be rather polite AFTER he was bodyslammed for mouthing off at first. After that, as Dabbler stated, “Tom was being a perfect gentleman.”
Plus I’d rather a demonic army arrive with a spreadsheet and powerpoint presentation as a way to try to convince me, instead of flaying of skin and whatnot until we comply.
Also he seems to be rather loving and caring when it comes to Dabbler. He doesnt take advantage of their relationship whatsoever, and Dabbler acknowledged that several times with a smile and kisses and stuff.
Actually wait, I’ve been to some really boring meeting with some awful powerpoint presentations, so that skin flaying deal might still be on the table. Still, his assistant said the presentation transitions were transcendent so I’m curious. :)
The problem is that him going for the peaceful option first is irrelevant if he’s just going to take it anyway. That would be like saying someone who stabbed you and stole your wallet isn’t a criminal because he asked you for your wallet first. He’s a straight up murderer who is holding the threat of an army of human WMD’s over the heads of the world in order to extort governments into giving him what he wants. I mean, I like the guy because he’s awesome but let’s not oretend he hasn’t done some heinous stuff.
This will be in parts because apparently the forum hates my log posts and gives me Internal Server Errors when I do
Part 1:
“The problem is that him going for the peaceful option first is irrelevant if he’s just going to take it anyway.”
It’s not irrelevant at all. It shows his temperament, his philosophy, and his intent towards the region. He wants to help the inhabitants in that region (who actually WANT his help), rather than simply conquer and be yet another tyrant who will abuse the people like the government of Mozambique does or the government of Galytn did. He wants to prevent any loss of life if at all possible. That is not the behavior of a villain.
“That would be like saying someone who stabbed you and stole your wallet isn’t a criminal because he asked you for your wallet first.”
That’s a horribly inaccurate analogy because the people in the region WANT Deus there. It’s the central government of Mozambique who do not. Deus is not ‘stealing the wallet’ of the people on the Zambezi river. It’s more akin to liberating an oppressed people of an evil overlord, but first asking the evil overlord if he’d please let them go. I wouldn’t be surprised if Deus also first offered to buy the land – it seems his mentality.
They want him here because he’s improving their well-being, which- while not a bad thing- is not evidence that he’s good. The fact that the people want him there is immaterial to the actions that led to it. Going back the the mugger analogy, he stabs you and then uses the money to feed the poor. He still stabbed you didn’t he? You’re arguing ends justify the means, which is a totally valid position, but it does mean you have to accept the means, or you’ve built everything on a bed of sand. I like Deus, I think he’s awesome. But he’s still a ruthless murderer, who would have also killed the dictators son if he hadn’t given Deus what he wanted. Morality isn’t a set of scales to balance, or else we would just let billionaires donate to charity whenever they wanted to kill someone.
I hate how I have to keep splitting up my posts to prevent Internal Service Errors.
Part 1:
“They want him here because he’s improving their well-being, which- while not a bad thing- is not evidence that he’s good.”
He’s improving the well-being of people who he freed from the machinations of an evil dictator who used to torture and kill them, leaving them in abject poverty because of his corrupt practices, embezzling money from outside aid, and had them in unwinnable wars on every side. This previous dictator also made sure that when he’d torture and murder people, he’d let them know before they were killed that the same fate would befall their loved ones as well.
Now they’re prosperous, have access to electricty, education, medical care, skills and jobs. Their infant mortality rate has plummeted, their lifespans have skyrocketed, schools have been built, they are no longer in fear for their lives, and Deus treats them all with the utmost respect because he wants the nation to form a burgeoning middle and upper middle class, like the type that we in first world nations take for granted but which is a REQUIREMENT to be a first world nation.
Before this, he made his money by shorting banks who were engaging in immoral banking practices during the banking crash, he altruistically GAVE AWAY $500 million dollars in stock to some of the poorest Americans he could find, and oh yeah – he is in business with the American superhero group where he invents and provides them with cutting age technology.
I think that shows he’s pretty good.
Part 2:
“The fact that the people want him there is immaterial to the actions that led to it.”
No offense but that sounds terribly cynical. Cynicism is good and all, admittedly, but there’s a point where you have to look at a person’s actions and think ‘Okay um… he’s doing non-stop good, maybe he actually IS good.’
Put yourself in the shoes of the people he has helped. The people want him there because he is a VERY good leader who cares about their wellbeing. Yes, his primary motivation is greed, but he does not consider greed to be a vice – he considers it to be a virtue which helps everyone if properly directed. And he’s literally proven it to be true in the Grrlpower universe.
“Going back the the mugger analogy, he stabs you and then uses the money to feed the poor.”
Again, it’s an inaccurate analogy. Because you did nothing wrong in the first place to deserve getting stabbed. Indinge Sr. on the other hand – he was definitely stab-worthy. Think of Deus more like Robin Hood. He robs from evil Prince John, fights the Sherriff of Nottingham, in order to give to the poor and be a beacon of virtue. All praise Deus, amen. Or think of Deus as the allied storming the beaches of Normandy, causing the deaths of thousands of german soldiers to free France from the Nazi regime, which also saves millions being systematically executed in concentration camps and saving the entire world from an age of evil and darkness. All praise Deus, amen.
Part 2:
“The fact that the people want him there is immaterial to the actions that led to it.”
No offense but that sounds terribly cynical. Cynicism is good and all, admittedly, but there’s a point where you have to look at a person’s actions and think ‘Okay um… he’s doing non-stop good, maybe he actually IS good.’
Put yourself in the shoes of the people he has helped. The people want him there because he is a VERY good leader who cares about their wellbeing. Yes, his primary motivation is greed, but he does not consider greed to be a vice – he considers it to be a virtue which helps everyone if properly directed. And he’s literally proven it to be true in the Grrlpower universe.
“Going back the the mugger analogy, he stabs you and then uses the money to feed the poor.”
Again, it’s an inaccurate analogy. Because you did nothing wrong in the first place to deserve getting stabbed. Indinge Sr. on the other hand – he was definitely stab-worthy. Think of Deus more like Robin Hood. He robs from evil Prince John, fights the Sherriff of Nottingham, in order to give to the poor and be a beacon of virtue. All praise Deus, amen. Or think of Deus as the allied storming the beaches of Normandy, causing the deaths of thousands of german soldiers to free France from the Nazi regime, which also saves millions being systematically executed in concentration camps and saving the entire world from an age of evil and darkness. All praise Deus, amen.
“You’re arguing ends justify the means, which is a totally valid position, but it does mean you have to accept the means, or you’ve built everything on a bed of sand.”
I’m actually not. That is too nebulous for what I’m suggesting. I’m suggesting that Indinge Sr. was evil, and deserved to die. He was essentially a modern day Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or Mugabe. And just like with all of them, when Deus tried to peacefully negotiate, it fell on deaf ears and angry threats in response. You can’t reason with a monstrous madman, but Deus at least tried to do so. His ‘bedrock’ is not a house of sand – it’s granite solid because he always FIRST tries negotiation, and only uses force on the absolute worst of the worst after negotiations fail. And even then, it’s after they are about to kill HIM.
Part 3:
“I like Deus, I think he’s awesome.”
And I respect your difference of opinion, despite my disagreeing with it. One day the true light of Deus shall shine into your heart. :)
“But he’s still a ruthless murderer”
I don’t see him as a murderer, and even if I was to accept that he murdered Indinge Sr, I definitely don’t see him as a RUTHLESS murderer. I’d counter-argue that he is, at worst, a reluctant murderer with respect to Indinge, the only person we’ve ever seen him order the death of, via Cthillia. A ruthless businessman, sure. A ruthless murderer? Nope.
“who would have also killed the dictators son if he hadn’t given Deus what he wanted”
I highly doubt that he would have. Deus does a lot of research in what he’s going to do with his plans. He wouldnt have killed Indinge Jr. (The prince) because that would be counterproductive to his plans, not to mention it would be counter to his philosophy of engendering trust and loyalty. Deus does not try to rule by fear, he tries to rule by admiration, loyalty, and competence. He KNEW in advance that the prince would side with him once he saw what his father had been doing, because he knew the Prince was NOT evil, so there would be no reason to kill the prince in the first place.
We have seen NO evidence whatsoever to imply that Deus would have killed the son if he disagreed with Deus’s business proposal. Deus would have just kept sweetening the rewards instead. More carrot, no stick.
Part 4:
“Morality isn’t a set of scales to balance,”
Well… unless you’re a unitarian. Or a version of it like in the TV show ‘The Good Place.’
“we would just let billionaires donate to charity whenever they wanted to kill someone.”
1) Deus did not ‘want’ to kill Indinge Sr.
2) Your last sentence implies that donating to charity is equivalent to a human life in all cases.
3) There’s actually a rather long history of donating to charity and doing public works in order to make up for criminal and other immoral actions, especially among celebrities and the elite. And the public does tend to eat that right up.
Part 2:
“He’s a straight up murderer”
He’s not a murderer, with the exception of General Indinge, a tyrant who systematically tended to rape, murder, and disappear his own people, including men, women and CHILDREN. And even with Indinge, Deus tried the appeasement method first – he tried the way of peace first. But Indinge would have rather spent any money on himself, not his people, who were starving and terrified of Indinge’s monstrous actions. And Deus did know that Indinge would inevitably try to murder DEUS, so the argument of self-defense still stands.
I’ve argued this so many times in the past. Rather well, imho.
“He’s not a murderer, with the exception”
And you’re doing it again, claiming that doing evil doesn’t count if you can somehow justify it.
He killed someone, they’re dead, he’s a murderer. Accept the facts.
“And you’re doing it again, claiming that doing evil doesn’t count if you can somehow justify it.”
How is it EVIL to kill a mass murderer and torturer of men, women and children who was about to kill him as well?
Is that justifying Deus ordering Indinge killed? Yes
Is that justifying Deus doing something evil? No – because what he did WAS NOT EVIL. So no need to justify it.
It’s like you’re arguing that killing Hitler would be evil.
“He killed someone,”
Technically Cthillia killed someone. Deus didn’t.
Also, killing someone is not automatically evil. Especially when it’s a horrifically evil murderer and torturer who is seconds from ordering you to be thrown off the roof of the palace because you told him that he’s corrupt.
“they’re dead,”
And the people of Galytn rejoiced, and the son of that monster seemed to get over it very quickly after he saw that atrocities his father did to the people of his country, on film.
“he’s a murderer.”
1) He’s not a murderer. You’ve yet to show me how what he did was unlawful. Because you can’t.
2) Technically I can argue self defense.
3) What he did was not evil.
“Accept the facts”
Soon as you start presenting the facts accurately, I’ll get right on that. ;-)
I’d say that killing Hitler could be considered… well, probably not evil, but much less justifiable if you were only killing him because he didn’t give you what you wanted, and were perfectly willing to let him continue his actions if he did give you what you wanted. And if you want to argue self defense, every single guard was disabled and deus had half a dozen guns pointed at a fat old man with someone in between the two of them. That’s not self defense because Deus was in no danger at that point.
“I’d say that killing Hitler could be considered… well, probably not evil, but much less justifiable if you were only killing him because he didn’t give you what you wanted, and were perfectly willing to let him continue his actions if he did give you what you wanted”
That’s actually an excellent argument Sue, except Deus’s requirements to Indinge involved him not doing the terribly evil things he was doing – instead it would have involved doing good for his people.
“And if you want to argue self defense, every single guard was disabled”
The guards were not disabled until AFTER Cthillia gave the death glare to the King, when they tried to point their guns at Deus.
“and deus had half a dozen guns pointed at a fat old man”
No he didn’t. The King was already on the ground at that point. The guns that Vekter had taken from the guards were to keep those guards from trying to attack physically.
“with someone in between the two of them.”
Vale. Doing her job as a bodyguard.
“That’s not self defense because Deus was in no danger at that point.”
Your timing of the events is very off. Deus was no longer in danger AFTER the king was already on the ground dying. Before that point, he was very much so if his team had not stepped in.
It seems I got the timing of events wrong, so thanks for pointing that out. I’d still argue that Deus was not in any danger. It doesn’t matter if the king was making agressive moves, because Deus’s guards should have been more than capable of taking the king down without harming him, considering he’s just a man and Vale is in Maxima’s level.
I don’t claim to be an expert in the legality of it all, but the idea that he was in danger because his team had not YET acted seems ridiculous to me. As far as I can tell, you seem to be arguing that until a potential threat of any level has been eliminated, it should be treated as a threat of the most extreme level possible, regardless of circumstances. I feel like I may not be explaining myself properly, and I sort of hope that I’m misinterpreting what you’ve said, because it feels like a lot like saying the police are always justified in shorting and killing whoever they want, because until they are shot and killed they are a threat to the police officer by virtue of existing.
“considering he’s just a man and Vale is in Maxima’s level.”
Except Vale isnt the one who killed the King. Cthillia is. And Cthillia’s power set is basically ‘death stare.’ And notice, no other person was killed. JUST the king who was ordering his guards to kill Deus. The prince was not killed. The guards who were, seconds earlier, about to shoot Deus were not killed.
“I feel like I may not be explaining myself properly,”
Possibly but I don’t think you’re doing a terrible job. I just disagree with you and have a lot of facts which support my stance.
“and I sort of hope that I’m misinterpreting what you’ve said, because it feels like a lot like saying the police are always justified in shorting and killing whoever they want,”
If that’s what you think I’m saying then you are DEFINITELY misinterpreting what I said, because I said nothing that could even be arguably or remotely like that.
” because until they are shot and killed they are a threat to the police officer by virtue of existing.”
I honestly have no idea where you got that from. However, if a police officer thinks their life is in immediate physical peril, or someone else’s life is in immediate physical peril, then it is usually seen as a justified shooting. But that is a LONG way away from saying ‘they are a threat by virtue of existing’ or ‘police are always justified in shooting whoever they want’ There has to be an immediate physical threat. Which there was with the King. Also, bodyguards are held to a different, more lax standard than police, from a legal standpoint. I am not remotely saying the police have the right to willy nilly go on shooting sprees because a gang member looks at them funny, and I never would imply that.
You don’t have to be a lawyer to know that not all killing is murder, which specifically is “unlawful, premeditated killing”. Killing in self-defense, or accidentally, does not qualify as murder.
Yep. Also other forms of killing as not murder as well. Killing during war between enemy combatants is not murder either. State-sanctioned execution is not murder. It’s the whole ‘unlawful’ element that is the major determination of if something is or is not murder.
Part 3:
“who is holding the threat of an army of human WMD’s over the heads of the world in order to extort governments into giving him what he wants.”
Deus is doing nothing of the sort. He’s using economics, not ‘human WMDs’ to get the rest of the world to do what he wants. He literally told everyone his ENTIRE long term plan just a few pages ago. You should go back to read it.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1024-a-squeaky-clean-leader/
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-1025-military-industrial-simple/
He doesnt use villainous plans simply because villainous plans are stupid when it comes to being effective. Legal plans work so much better.
“I mean, I like the guy because he’s awesome but let’s not oretend he hasn’t done some heinous stuff.”
You probably havent read many of my posts on this subject so I’ll ask what I’ve asked people in the past.
What has he done that is ‘heinous’? Ever.
And if you’re going to say ‘killing Indinge’ – hopefully you have a better definition of heinous than killing a mass murderer (not to mention torture) of men, women and children. Because I’d find that pretty much the opposite of being heinous.
Give me an actual, specific example. Preferably if you can find the page where it happens, like I do with my arguments. Then I can make an argument why you’re wrong (assuming I can).
“What has he done that is ‘heinous’? Ever.”
Murder. Conspiracy to murder. Violent regime change. Aggressive war.
Murder is heinous. You’re taking someone’s life, destroying them as a person. You don’t get an out for killing a bad guy. In fact legal codes often specifically define murder as heinous.
And you can’t argue Indinge’s nature as a mitigating fact because Deus didn’t kill Indinge because he was a bad guy, he killed him because he was in the way of his plan.
Again have to break this into multiple posts
Part 1:
“Murder.”
He ordered the death of a man who tortures, rapes, and murders men, women and children, and had been doing so unfettered for since that man, Indinge, violently took over the region from Zaire. A man who was about to order his guards to throw Deus off the roof of the palace to his death because he did not like what Deus said and because Deus would not hand him over a blank check.
Also technically, he did not do it. Cthillia did as a bodyguard.
Next?
“Conspiracy to murder.”
See above.
“Violent regime change.”
So far you’ve basically stated the same action three times using different words. Although here, you arent even correct about the violent part. The only person who died was Indinge, and it was rather quick and painless from what it looked like. One second he’s alive, next he’s dead with a look from Cthillia. None of the guards were killed. The prince was not killed. It was one of the most bloodless and LEAST violent takeovers in Southern Africa’s history. One that the son afterwards agreed with being fine. The son who is the legal ruler of Galytn from a political standpoint, even if he’s mostly a figurehead.
Part 2:
“Aggressive war.”
1) All hot wars are aggressive. It’s war. If it was passive it would be a cold war.
2) The war was completely legal.
3) There were no illegalities done DURING the war. I’ve read the transcripts of the Nuremburg Trials. I’ve done a thesis on it. I’m very knowledgeable about the Geneva Conventions. Deus violated NO rules of war whatsoever.
4) The war was over within a few days, with minimal casualties, mostly because of Deus
5) The people in the region were on the side of Deus. Do not confuse the army of a corrupt central regime with the besieged (by that government) people who live in the region.
“Murder is heinous.”
I’m guessing you hated Obama. He did order the assassination of Qaddafi, after all. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said, “We came, we saw, he died.”
Also, murder is heinous if it’s actually murder and not just killing. Murder requires it to be unlawful and with no affirmative defenses. When soldiers kill in a war, that’s not murder. When a woman kills a man who’s trying to rape her, it’s not murder. When a man kills another man who is about to kill him, that’s not murder. When there’s a legal execution of a person on Death Row, that’s not murder. It’s homicide and killing, but the element of unlawfulness is absent.
“You’re taking someone’s life, destroying them as a person.”
So when the Nuremburg Trials resulted in the execution of ten prominent members of the political and military leadership of Nazi Germany (execution by hanging), you seem to be saying that was heinous and evil to do. See… I disagree with you. It wasn’t heinous to hang them at all.
Also, when Maxima killed enemy supers, which was her job, you’re saying that because she ‘took someone’s life, destroyed them as a person,’ that was heinous? That she does not get an out for killing an enemy in a war?
Btw please stop calling it ‘aggressive war.’ If you mean ‘war of aggression’ call it ‘war of aggression.’
One has an actual legal meaning while the other does not.
You do seem to focus an awful lot on how the death of Indinge is some horrifically evil thing because Deus benefited from it.
But his ‘benefit’ is a long term deal. In the immediate aftermath, he didnt benefit – everyone else did. He didnt make money. He put billions INTO Galytn without seeing an immediate profit, and even once he did start seeing a profit, most of that money was either to recoup his costs or put BACK into Galytn.
This is not the behavior of an evil man. And neither is the manner in which Indinge was killed.
You keep bringing up that Deus is guilty of war crimes and has violated the rules of war by not getting permission from the UN. Is Deus a member of the UN? Was Deus (or Galytn for that matter) a signatory to the UN charter? Not that I’ve seen. Definitely not Deus (individual people are not member states of the UN), and probably not Galytn since they werent even officially recognized as a nation, since the DRC was trying to claim they still owned the area. It’s yet another reason why Deus chose Galytn as ground zero for his future worldwide economic superpower.
Part 3:
“You don’t get an out for killing a bad guy.”
History would disagree with you.
“In fact legal codes often specifically define murder as heinous.”
I’m guessing you don’t realize this despite my saying it about 20 times a day, and other people mention it another 30 times a day on the forum, but I’m an attorney. Murder is not defined as ‘heinous’ in legal codes.
Murder is defined as ‘The unlawful killing of a human being by another human being. Sometimes also includes ‘with malice aforethought’ depending on the degree of murder.
Please tell me where the word heinous is written? And if you’re going to point to ‘malice aforethought’ that doesn’t mean heinous. It’s a legal term of art that literally means ‘the conscious intent to cause death or great bodily harm to another person before a person commits the crime.’
Sorry not sorry, but you’re wrong.
Part 4:
“And you can’t argue Indinge’s nature as a mitigating fact”
Of course I am. Because it IS a mitigating fact.
“because Deus didn’t kill Indinge because he was a bad guy,”
Sure he did, in part. Also partly because Indinge was in the process of ordering his guards to throw him off the roof of the palace. He even stated it outright, in case you missed it on the page.
Deus: “I prefer diplomacy to violence, but some people’s BELLIGERENCE inoculates them to reason”
He also said, AS INDINGE WAS DYING, “You’re quite a horrid individual. A textbook despot. Your government thrives on corruption, terror squads, abduction, the lot, and the world will be an objectively better place without you in it.”
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-390-project-overkill/
(last panel)
Except that when confronted about his claims of knowing how to make Supers, he required a military contract before sharing, which (while I’m certainly not an expert) is what I’d call extortion.
As for heinous stuff he did, he was fully aware of Sciona’s plans, which involved multiple murders with the end goal of an invasion of the planet by an extremely hostile force, and did absolutely nothing to stop her, going so far as to help her out in fact.
“Except that when confronted about his claims of knowing how to make Supers, he required a military contract before sharing, which (while I’m certainly not an expert) is what I’d call extortion.”
That’s not the definition of extortion. That’s capitalism. It’s having a good or service (or information) and requiring something of equal value in trade if he is to give up that good or service (or information)
The definition of extortion is ‘forcing action or obtaining something by illegal means.’ There’s nothing illegal about requiring payment from the US in exchange for something that DOES NOT BELONG TO THE US.
When you go to the store to buy a loaf of bread, the store is not extorting you into giving them money. They are engaging in capitalism and a legal form of trade.
“As for heinous stuff he did, he was fully aware of Sciona’s plans,”
It’s not heinous to have knowledge.
“which involved multiple murders”
I’m unaware of who Sciona killed aside from Council members, who were also in the process of trying to kill her, and an attempt on Wyrmil, which Deus did NOT approve of at all. She definitely did not kill anyone as a result of anything Deus did.
” with the end goal of an invasion of the planet by an extremely hostile force,”
Except Deus seemed to already know that it would come to naught. He knows things he shouldnt know.
“and did absolutely nothing to stop her, going so far as to help her out in fact.”
The absence of doing something does not make him heinous. He wanted her to make the Sky Ripper. Which he then took from her after the mountain was exploded. Almost as if he knew exactly what was going to happen, including Sciona’s failure.
That’s not particularly heinous.
Mozambique was so desperate for Deus’ help they turned out their military to welcome him at the border.
Oh, wait, they turned out their army to stop him at the border.
And Deus didn’t do it because he wanted to help them, he did it because he wanted a particular piece of land that belonged to them and not him. (Now who else is doing that right now? Name’s on the tip of my tongue…)
Can we at least get an accurate account of what people think of the external aggressor and an acknowledgement of their right to self determination? This is doubly important considering Mozambique is fighting against an Islamic State attempt to overthrow the government in real life.
“Mozambique was so desperate for Deus’ help they turned out their military to welcome him at the border.”
Don’t confuse the people with the corrupt and horrible government. The PEOPLE are desperate for Deus’s help. The corrupt leaders didnt want it. It’s like when people say that China’s government is just… just simply awful. But the people of China are not. Or you can say that about any country, really, where the government is bad, but not necessarily representative of the people. The people on the Zambezi river specifically BEGGED Deus to come in privately. Probably because they’re living in abject poverty in a nation where there are regular disappearances, no freedom of speech, no upward mobility, massive infant mortality, child soldier conscription, no clean water, almost no electricity, horrific levels of poverty, etc.
“(Now who else is doing that right now? Name’s on the tip of my tongue…)”
Again the incredibly inaccurate and disingenuous comparison of Putin to Deus. There is literally no comparison. You might as well compare the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution to Putin because they took land that legally belonged to the Crown of England.
“Can we at least get an accurate account of what people think of the external aggressor and an acknowledgement of their right to self determination? ”
I don’t mean this as an insult, but you have an almost naive understanding of the region if you think they HAD self-determination under the corrupt government in Mozambique. I’m sure they self-determined living in abject poverty – the average income in Mozambique is about 26 Euros ($28.29 USD) per month (312 Euro or $339 USD per year). And that’s in 2019. In 2014-ish (roughly the time of the comic, assuming it’s during Obama’s second term), the average income in Mozambique was closer to $286 USD. With an inflation rate of 15.3%.
In short, it’s in lowest 1.9% in the world. And they do NOT have anything in the way of self-determination. I don’t think nations where there are rampant disappearances are particular bastions of ‘self-determination.’
“This is doubly important considering Mozambique is fighting against an Islamic State attempt to overthrow the government in real life.”
1) This comic takes place in roughly 2014, not 2022.
2) Just because Mozambique’s government is in conflict with the Islamic State (ISIS, HNIM, and al-Shabaab), that does not make Mozambique’s government suddenly good. Stalin’s Communists fought Hitler’s Nazis, but both of those nation leaders were monsters who directly caused the murder if MILLIONS of innocent people through systematic pogroms. Mozambique is a failed state. They’ve been a failed state for some time now.
The ‘accurate account’ is that the people in the Zambezi region of Mozambique, particularly in the Grrlpower universe, would much rather have Deus there than Mozambique’s central government OR the Islamic State. Galytn is simply lovely, a paradise-like oasis with a growing middle class, amongst a sea of corrupt and impoverished nations, based on Anvil and Sydney’s reaction.
“I don’t mean this as an insult”
I don’t believe you. But that doesn’t actually matter, because I’m basing my argument on international law. Aggressive war is forbidden. Deus has just engaged in aggressive war. Ergo Deus is an international war criminal. And ethically we divide war into Just War (which must be both Jus Ad Bellum and Jus in Bello), and wars which are not just. Even Just War is considered evil, but it is permissible as the lesser evil forced by the greater evil of an unjust war. Deus’s invasion of Mozambique clearly fails Jus Ad Bellum, and probably Jus In Bello. The war is evil, Deus launched the war, Deus is evil.
As Putin has just launched an aggressive war which also fails the Jus Ad Bellum test, the comparison with Deus is clear and unarguable.
“I don’t believe you.”
That’s your choice. But I’m writing what i am because I’m correct and you’re wrong, not because I’m trying to insult you. Pointing out facts and pointing out inconsistencies and flaws in your reasoning does not mean I’m actively trying to insult you. It means I’m actively showing you that your opinion is not in line with the facts.
“But that doesn’t actually matter, because I’m basing my argument on international law.”
By your rationale, almost every war on the planet has been illegal. Also you do realize that a nation has to agree to those laws in order to be bound by them?
The League of Nations tried to defined this. They failed.
Nuremberg tried to define a war of aggression as well (not aggressive war, please stop calling it that), and their definition was based on crimes committed DURING a war of aggression. Not that a war of aggression by itself is a war crime.
“And ethically we divide war into Just War (which must be both Jus Ad Bellum and Jus in Bello), and wars which are not just.”
Mozambique agreed to Deus’s terms. As they say, rules are made by the victors. The ‘perfectly legal war slash skirmish’ seems pretty just to the people who live in the region of the failed state which is Mozambique.
But hey, you can keep on defending actual war criminals and despots whose people HATE them if you want. I mean… I wouldnt do that – I prefer people like Deus who literally make hellholes into paradises where the people love him not because of fear but because he literally does follow through on his promises to make their lives better in every conceivable metric. But that’s just me. :) I’m more of a fan of that than I am of Hitler-esque figures like Indinge Sr. or failed states like Mozambique that engage in corruption, child soldier conscripting, and disappearing people. To each their own.
“The war is evil, Deus launched the war, Deus is evil.”
You feel the war is evil because Deus got land as a result. Deus would argue that the people of the Zambezi region had begged him to come into the area to bring his infrastructure, which actually means it’s not a war of territory – that’s just a side effect. Much in the way that the US and other western nations have entered other nations to free them from an oppressive regime. And since Mozambique agreed to Deus’s terms, sorry – but you’re wrong. And the people of Mozambique will reap the benefits now. As a side effect, Deus also now has a path to the ocean for his burgeoning African Union.
“the comparison with Deus is clear and unarguable.”
And yet I’m doing a good job of arguing that you’re wrong. :)
Also, short term, it’s a war that will cost Deus more money, because now he has to buy them infrastructure.
Of course, that’s investment, and he was planning on doing some of it anyway. But he’d only been going to do along the river, and now he has to pay for infrastructure for the whole country.
All very good points. :)
Does the government of Mozambique serve the interests of its people? Are they exercising self-determination in their daily lives?
“Does the government of Mozambique serve the interests of its people? ”
Not even slightly. It’s quite an awful government (the Frelimo party), actually, and serves its own purposes, not the purposes of its people. It’s horribly corrupt – at least as much as as the people who they revolted against, and Mozambique is, for all intensive purposes, a failed state.
“Are they exercising self-determination in their daily lives?”
They are not. They get disappeared, political rivals and anyone who becomes of enough prominence to be a threat get gunned down in a hail of bullets, they conscript child soldiers, and bribery is rampant throughout the ENTIRE government, from the central authority on down to the police and everywhere in between. It’s literally ranked as one of the most corrupt nations on the planet according to the CPI.
“he always goes the peaceful, trading route FIRST. He always uses force as a last resort. ”
War costs money, who’d a thunk it? The problem here is his willingness to use force, not his willingness to try less costly methods first. And the willingness to resort to force to seize that which is not yours has been considered evil throughout history.
“War costs money, who’d a thunk it?”
Deus has never been the type of person who isnt willing to spend money up front. That’s the whole point about Galytn. He was willing to put a few BILLION in up front.
“The problem here is his willingness to use force, not his willingness to try less costly methods first.”
Willingness to use force is not villainous. D-Day for example. Heck, the ‘superheroes’ of ARCHON have a definite willingness to use force as well.
“And the willingness to resort to force to seize that which is not yours has been considered evil throughout history.”
The Founding Fathers of the American Revolution would disagree with you, as would the soldiers who stormed Normandy. As would the North when they went to war with the South in the US during the civil war.
Not to mention, AGAIN… Mozambique is a failed state which treats its own people horribly, and the people in the Zambezi river region WANTED Deus to come in. The people. Not the corrupt central government that keeps the people impoverished and in a hopeless state of hunger and desperation.
“And the willingness to resort to force to seize that which is not yours has been considered evil throughout history.”
“… disagree with you as would the soldiers who stormed Normandy … ”
Read what I wrote.
As for Normandy and the Liberation of France, the clue’s in the name. The invasion of Normandy was part of a defensive war being waged in response to the aggression of the Axis, who had invaded and occupied France and most of the rest of Europe. The Allied side of WWII passes the test of Jus Ad Bellum and is consistent with my point.
“As for Normandy and the Liberation of France, the clue’s in the name. ”
1) D-Day was before the definition of ‘War of Aggression’ was written in the Nuremberg trials.
2) Deus liberated the people in the Zambezi region from the clutches of a horrifically oppressive and corrupt central government of a failed state. People who begged him to come into the area with his infrastructure.
3) After Normandy, the Allies stayed in Germany. It was split into East Germany and West Germany. They held the area for quite some time. Decades later, we still have bases in Germany. Berlin, the same thing happened, separating it into East Berlin and West Berlin. There was a wall and everything.
“War? The US has done that, and Maxima has been a soldier. In war.”
If we need to discuss the ethics of war, then we need to discuss Just War Theory, and where international Law stands on war. Under the UN Charter force is permitted in self-defence and in pursuit of UN authorized aims, all other warfare is illegal. Just war theory goes slightly further in defining both a just war – jus ad bellum – and a just way of conducting war – jus in bello. Jus in Bello is basically the combined Laws of War and International Humanitarian Law.
Maxima’s involvement in war falls under Jus ad Bellum, the war’s she participated in were authorised by the UN and were an extension of self-defence (there’s widespread disagreement on whether they were proportionate, but no one has produced a definitive ruling on that). Maxima’s individual conduct will have followed Jus In Bello to the best of her ability considering what we know of her.
Deus’ wars have been for personal gain, so no Jus Ad Bellum, your war is evil, proceed straight to Hell. His coup in Galytn was a set of murders/extra-judicial killings. His invasion of Mozambique is a war for lebensraum and I seriously doubt his demonic hordes followed Jus in Bello.
“then we need to discuss Just War Theory, and where international Law stands on war.”
I actually have in the past on other posts. And Deus has never done anything to violate any international laws on war.
My point in bringing up war is when people try to say that because Deus was involved in a war between Galytn and Mozambique, that this somehow makes him evil, when the US (and Maxima in her role as a soldier for the US) have done the same thing. In fact, your defense of Maxima’s actions actually HELPS me by showing Deus was also not villainous in his actions as well.
“Deus’ wars have been for personal gain,”
The people of Zambezi in Mozambique and the people of Galytn think otherwise. He gained, but his goal was to cut a path to the ocean for Galytn, not just personal gain. Personal gain is just a happy side effect since the better the nations under his leadership do, the better his company does if his company gets a cut of the GDP.
“so no Jus Ad Bellum, your war is evil, proceed straight to Hell. ”
His war isnt evil though. In fact, it was an incredibly fast war with incredibly low casualties despite Deus’s ability to steamroll over the enemy, for a rather benevolent reason, with massive positives for the people IN THE AREA WHERE HE CAME IN. The people who WANTED him there in the first place, which likely made his choice of where to go in much easier. It’s always easier to do something like this when you have the indigenous population on your side against their corrupt government.
“I seriously doubt his demonic hordes followed Jus in Bello.”
Well that just sounds racist. Just kidding. But seriously, his demonic hordes follow his directions, which seemed to involve NOT engaging in death whenever possible, judging from the careful aiming of those weight things and where they’d hit the tanks. You’re making assumptions that the demonic hordes are more evil than the US army because of P.R. We’ve already seen that ‘demons’ in the Grrlpower universe are just as good or bad as anyone else. Remember what Sydney said to Tamatha in this respect, and what Dabbler confirmed as accurate.
“And Deus has never done anything to violate any international laws on war.”
He’s just launched an aggressive war. It’s illegal because it’s aggressive and it’s doubly illegal because he didn’t have UN authorisation for military action against another state.
“your defense of Maxima’s actions actually HELPS me by showing Deus was also not villainous in his actions as well.”
As I clearly pointed out, Maxima’s actions aren’t comparable to Deus because her involvement is solely with UN authorised military actions which are responding to prior aggression and therefore legal in international law, whereas neither Deus’ regime change in Galtyn nor his aggressive war on Mozambique have UN authorisation and both constitute aggressive war, making him by definition a war criminal. My point only helps yours if you misread it or if you are deliberately distorting it.
“His war isnt evil though.”
Which part of “aggressive war is evil by definition” are you finding so hard to understand?
“He’s just launched an aggressive war. It’s illegal because it’s aggressive and it’s doubly illegal because he didn’t have UN authorisation for military action against another state.”
So you think that a nation that isnt even officially recognized by the UN needs permission of the UN to engage in a war. You do realize the UN isnt a world government that has authority over nations that are not part of it, right? Oh also… the US has engaged in wars without getting approval from the UN. Nations have sovereignty. The UN has no authority over the sovereign actions of even a member state, let alone a non-member state like Galytn.
“whereas neither Deus’ regime change in Galtyn nor his aggressive war on Mozambique have UN authorisation”
This truly makes no sense that you think any war or regime change requires the UN to agree to it, even if that person or nation is not part OF the UN.
“As I clearly pointed out, Maxima’s actions aren’t comparable to Deus because her involvement is solely with UN authorised military actions”
I re-read the press conference. When did she ever say she was engaged in UN authorized military actions when she eliminated enemy supers?
Here’s the page. You can point out where it said the UN or UN approval had anything to do with her engagements prior to the construction of ARCHON.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-150-not-sure-where-max-stencils-her-kill-marks/
“Which part of “aggressive war is evil by definition” are you finding so hard to understand?”
The part which would defend liberating people from someone like Hitler as being a ‘war of aggression’ because the side effect winds up being getting land or authority within a nation. And somehow you point blame at Deus in Galytn, but not the Allies in Germany. Whereas I would argue that neither Deus nor the US engaged in an illegal war in these examples.
Part 4:
Non-violent coercion? ARCHON has done that as well – and arguably ‘worse’ – using jail terms as an incentive to supers who have a criminal history (even if that criminal history is independent crimefighting) – like with Digit, Amorphous, Achilles and Heatwave. Or using people who have committed more detrimental crimes, like Jabberwokky. Or even possibly Vehemence (if they go along with his plan, which is admittedly an… okay…. plan despite some rather big holes).
Threat of imprisonment, or at least criminal detainment? Actually Deus has never done that. ARCHON, on the other hand, has. With Krona. I’ve already explained ad nauseum in the past the reasoning on how Maxima’s actions towards Krona after the Mars factory were not only unconstitutional and an abuse of power, it was arguably villainous. And I wouldnt say it was a difficult argument to make even. The main people who argued against it seemed to act like Maxima could do no wrong because she is the designated hero or that ‘possible future crimes’ is a good excuse. Which isnt a convincing argument. In Minority Report, the government are the bad guys, not good. In Moon Knight, Arthur Harrow is a villain, as is his god, Ammit – he is fine with murdering children and babies and other people who have done NOTHING evil because they might in the future. You can’t get to a utopia by murdering innocent babies and children who have never been evil, sorry.
We have this little thing called society, and this other little thing called criminal law. In return for the benefits of belonging to society we expect you not to breach criminal law. If you do we will stick you in prison to learn to do better, or hold a criminal sentence in abeyance as a threat to make you do better. Ethically this is considered justice, not evil.
If you’re going to claim that suspended sentences are evil, you probably should realise that you won’t get many people agreeing with you. (Calling them too lenient, yes, evil, no).
If you think Galytn (you know, that country Deus runs as the sole executive power) is operating without a code of criminal justice you really aren’t thinking things through. It probably has a great big Deus-can-do-no-wrong shaped hole in it, but the normal operation of society demands a code of criminal law.
Whereas Deus is already guilty of murder, conspiracy to murder, overthrowing a government for personal gain, and invading a neighbouring country for personal gain. The murders will get you life in any functional law enforcement jurisdiction in the world, the conspiracy might promote it to the local equivalent of murder with special circumstances in some countries, and the aggressive war will get you life in front of a War Crimes tribunal.
“We have this little thing called society, and this other little thing called criminal law.”
Yes I’m aware. I’m a lawyer. I also used to work in the ADAs office in the second department in NYC. So I’m aware of those ‘little things.’
“In return for the benefits of belonging to society we expect you not to breach criminal law.”
1) Deus has not breached criminal law.
2) Which society are we talking about? US society? Galytn society? Minority Report’s society? Ammit’s society?
“If you’re going to claim that suspended sentences are evil, you probably should realise that you won’t get many people agreeing with you. ”
I literally have no idea what you’re talking about because i didnt write anything about suspended sentences in my post. Please watch Minority Report or the second episode of Moon Knight and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
“If you think Galytn (you know, that country Deus runs as the sole executive power)”
Technically Galytn is run by the Prince. Deus manages the economics and armed forces as the Economics and Defense Czar. The Galytn people are quite happy with him and grateful that he’s made their formerly horrific hellhole of a despotic terror-state into a paradise of upward mobility, education, prosperity, and freedom. Little children make him ashtrays in thanks and everything.
” is operating without a code of criminal justice you really aren’t thinking things through”
Seriously where are you getting any of this stuff which I never wrote?
Stop strawmanning. Obviously Galytn has a code of criminal justice. Which I’m quite sure Deus follows.
“Whereas Deus is already guilty of murder,”
He is not.
“conspiracy to murder”
He is not.
“overthrowing a government for personal gain,”
It wasnt solely for personal gain. It was the gain of the entire Galytn people. Why do you want them to be under a despotic tyrant who rapes, tortures, and murders men, women and children, and films it. It was clearly so horrific that even his son, Indinge Jr, who did not know of his father’s monstrous acts, was horrified by it as well and IMMEDIATELY sold his deceased despot dad under the bus.
Seriously why do you like Indinge Sr.? What good comes from torturing and killing men women and children that you see as a net bonus for that little thing called society? Where was the criminal justice system when Indinge was doing that? :)
“The murders will get you life in any functional law enforcement jurisdiction in the world,”
Okay I need to school you a bit on the law on this, because you are really doubling down on this whole murder thing.
1) Under what law did Deus murder anyone? The law of Indinge Sr? Yknow… the murderous ex-tyrant of Galytn?
2) How much of nation was Galytn in the first place before Deus came into the area? Its entire legal existence was in question, because the DRC was still claiming ownership of Galytn (since the only reason it’s its own separate thing is Indinge violently overthrew the people in that region previously). This is all stated in the comic.
3) Once Indinge was dead, and the Prince took over, who was actually charging Deus with the crime of murder? The new government wasn’t. Do you think the US will come into another country and charge Deus with murder in other countries?
4) I’ve already given my reasons ad nauseum about self-defense but it gets the most arguments, even though I think I argue my point rather well on the subject.
“The murders will get you life in any functional law enforcement jurisdiction in the world”
So are you saying when the US assassinated Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi, the then leader of the US (Obama) should have been tried for murder? Because um… that’s not how it works.
I’m curious about how you think this works.
“and the aggressive war will get you life in front of a War Crimes tribunal.”
Do you actually understand what a War Crime is defined as? War Crime does not mean ‘if you engage in an act of war, it’s a crime’ War crime are a set of delineated rules that you cannot do WHILE engaging in the act of war. None of which Deus is guilty of doing. Just engaging in war is NOT an example of a war crime.
Part 5 (last part):
Deus instead continually tries to build loyalty and trust in those who will follow him and for people who are watching and might want to BECOME partners or followers of his leadership, so that force is used as little as possible. He always looks for workarounds to achieve goals that involve NOT doing things that are evil, despite his loving evil tropes on a generically surface level (staring out the window imperiously, lightning with evil laughter, wearing purple suits, having a cool scar on your face, having ‘minions,’ owning a megacorporation, monologuing, etc.)
5) Putting ice in cognac – okay that’s the best argument for Deus being a villain, but knowing Deus, it’s probably cooling cubes, or perhaps some sort of new ice he invented which does not water down the drinks. Maybe ice made from cognac. :) plus hey… Maxima’s drinking it too! :)
I have to agree with most of this thread here, but I will add one additional caveat: A person’s reputation is a conglomerate of both their actions and their associations.
While his direct actions have been on at least the dark-grey side of the good/evil paradigm, some of the people he employs are, by their past actions, decidedly evil. Whether or not he considers his organization some sort of “Evil Overlord Rehabilitation Program” remains to be seen.
And yes, it can be argued that ARCHON has done the same.
But Deus definitely follows the “Evil Corporate Mastermind” trope very closely in his mannerisms.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and find out. :)
“But Deus definitely follows the “Evil Corporate Mastermind” trope very closely in his mannerisms.”
Oh I definitely agree there! Btw love your post.
Like I said – he loves the ‘surface level’ stuff about supervillains.’ But he does so largely to not fall into the pitfalls of the Evil Overlord Tropes. Not because he is himself an evil overlord, or a villain at all. He just likes the general feel of it, but doesnt actually do any of the evil stuff.
If anything, the closest he comes to a villain persona is that he’s a lot more David Xanatos (after he turned into an ACTUAL ally of the Gargoyles, after the City of Stone 4 parter) than Lex Luthor. Although even Lex Luthor in certain incarnations wound up being a hero, like in Apocalypse War or Crisis on Two Earths.
I’m more confused by the conflating of legalities with ‘evil’.
Deus decided he wanted his own country. He picked a place no one was going to react much over, and took it. The fact that it was good for the people is basically immaterial. He wanted it, he took it, and he made the moves so nobody was going to argue about it. There was nothing good about his motivations there. He picked the country BECAUSE he could take out the ruler with no problem. If he didn’t, you are underestimating his intellect and choice of country.
Then he decided he needed a better access to the sea, and lo, there was a river right there. He took it, too, while again making sure to do so in a way where no one would complain too much, and the people would even welcome it. In doing so, he invited in a bunch of extraplanar aliens whose avowed purpose is literally to overthrow all planetary governments, and he did so without hesitation, literally jumping on the opportunity at all speed.
Then a bunch of space aliens he happens to know are rabid slavers, pirates, and invaders need a place to stay, so he invites them down to basically take them over, too, without any hesitation.
A mercenary gets hold of a tool that requires 90 deaths to function correctly. He offers the fellow a shift of work AND potentially a way to charge the toy up. (this right here was the big sale for me).
He’s a manipulator and strategist of the highest level. He’s using the best methods and the choicest targets to pull off what he’s doing so that he can make all kinds of arguments about how it’s the best thing possible that he did it, but there is only thing that is important: he went in there because they had something he wanted, and they were the cheapest and easiest way of him getting it.
He got a whole country for the price of buying off the son of a despot. He got tons of land, freedom from land, law enforcement, and taxes, and a motivated workforce willing to do whatever he wanted for doing so.
He got an incredibly defensible home base and access to technology by giving alien conquerors a place to stay. Also some incredible educational technology and a skilled workforce.
He got an incredible army that likely surpasses most supers for literally nothing, as long as it can conquer places for him!… double win!
He gets supers to work for him by giving them what they want, even if it’s morally unpalatable. He gave a member of said alien conquerors a tool that could open an invasion portal by manipulating her into thinking her having sex was worth $80 million, puffing up her ego, and then taking away the tool after her plans were foiled so he could use it to acquire technology not found on Earth, basically not spending a dime to get her to assemble a unique dimensional portal device for him.
There’s no way someone moral does the stuff Deus does for the actual reasons he’s doing it. His means and methods are meant to serve him first, and if he can arrange matters so other people benefit, he’s using that to benefit himself, too (inspiring great loyalty, if nothing else).
He’s a megalomaniac, a tyrant, and a conqueror, and he’s very, very good at it. People like that have always gotten a lot of true believers throughout history, and he’s likely better than all of them.
I believe he’s simply realized that the average person of his target countries doesn’t care all that much about the morals of their leader as long as they safe, fed, happy with life, and have a good future ahead of them. This is not a unique thing, it’s a popularity test!
He gives them what they want, and gets everything he wants in return. He simply has foresight, and knows Maslowe’s Hierarchy of Needs.
— As for the comparison to Putin, Putin is an idiot who has surrounded himself with yes-men, and has put a big goal ahead of him that neither his targets nor his own people support. Deus is clearly MUCH better at his task, but he hasn’t restricted himself to his homeland, either.
I do what the world reaction would have been if Putin had instead gone into Kazakhstan, and gotten rid of the dictator there…
I enjoyed your post quite a bit, although I do disagree with a few areas…. sorta.
“There’s no way someone moral does the stuff Deus does for the actual reasons he’s doing it. His means and methods are meant to serve him first, and if he can arrange matters so other people benefit, he’s using that to benefit himself, too (inspiring great loyalty, if nothing else).”
I don’t think it’s a question of ‘which comes first – serving himself or serving others.’ Deus makes sure that his actions of serving others simultaneously DO serve him. He makes sure that he always is in a win-win scenario. Is he liberating people? YEP! Is doing that massively benefitting himself personally? Also YEP! He makes sure every choice he makes is simultaneously based on personal greed and also based on benefiting others. Like I said, Deus has ambition, but his ambition is always based on VALUE CREATION instead of VALUE CAPTURE. Basically, good greed instead of bad greed.
I don’t agree where you say, however, that ‘His means and methods are meant to serve him first,’ – I think that if his means and methods don’t simultaneously serve others as well, he doesnt use those means and methods because it would be counterproductive to his long-term ambitions. So he makes sure, always, that his means and methods are beneficial to the people of the region he’s in. And then later, he makes sure people see what he is doing and like it so much that they will BEG him to get a seat at the table.
That’s what happened with the people of the Zambezi region. He considers what he’s doing to be humanitarian efforts.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-840-loopholio/
(panel 6 and 7)
Panel 6: “I will be absorbing cities near my border THAT HAVE BEEN BEGGING ME TO BRING GALYTN’S INFRASTRUCTURE AND JOBS TO THEIR CITIZENS.”
Panel 7: “And I’d like you to help me with those HUMANITARIAN EFFORTS.”
So you’re saying that morality requires you to be dumb, inefficient, and do things the hard way? That someone intelligent, capable of both moral reasoning and economic reasoning is inherently evil, because they make efficient choices that maximize utility?
I completely agree with you on your reasoning, Torabi. :)
No, I’m saying that he made his choices, and then looked for opportunities to get away with making them.
He didn’t take over Galtyn to help the people. He decided he wanted a country, and he picked Galtyn. If there hadn’t been one so convenient, he would have picked another.
He SAID it was humanitarian. Thems is just words. It was all about his profit, nothing else. Treating people right has been historically proven to work best, so that’s what he is doing, unlike most powermongers, who believe people doing whatever they say and damn the rest is what is important.
As soon as he offered 90 deaths to that mercenary, it was plain that Deus is not letting morals get in his way, nor the laws or legalities of others. He will find a way around them to get what he wants.
Also, take note: He’s employing the demons who are literally there to overthrow all governments and unite the world. That’s why they are there. And they are working for HIM. They aren’t just mercs.
He’s totally evil. Evil people are not forbidden from doing nice things. It’s the good people who are not able to do BAD things, and he clearly has no problem from that angle!
“He didn’t take over Galtyn to help the people.”
I’d argue he did take over Galytn to help the people, because helping the people could be INCREDIBLY profitable. The fact that he benefits from doing something very good does not make what he is doing any less good. Deus had already shown, BEFORE Galytn, that he had a very good streak when he gave away $500 million to the poorest Americans in stock in his company, just to see what would happen. That’s altruism. Which I have a hard time being able to twist into being evil, and I tend to be cynical. But with Deus it’s hard to be cynical because of the mountain of evidence in his favor.
“He SAID it was humanitarian. Thems is just words.”
Well now you’re just making assumptions based on your own personal predilections, not from anything in the comic. :)
“It was all about his profit, nothing else.”
It’s not though. There’s two types of profit. Profit that causes wealth creation and profit that causes wealth capture (basically the same definition as with ambition, because the definition for ambition ties into profit). Deus is quite firmly on the ‘wealth creation’ side of profit, not wealth capture. He is the living personification of the win-win scenario for both sides of a business agreement. Which is a lot more difficult (and a lot more ‘morally positive’) than the wealth capture angle, which is quite a bit more ‘evil greed’ instead of ‘good greed’ (Deus’s grand philosophy that he described on Macroeconomics).
“Treating people right has been historically proven to work best,”
I still can’t get over reading explanations of ‘He is treating people well and making lives better for everyone, and therefore he is still probably evil’ logic. It’s just perplexing to me.
“unlike most powermongers, who believe people doing whatever they say and damn the rest is what is important.”
Okay so… Deus is not like most powermongers – he actually wants to do good with his power. Make the world a genuinely better place for everyone, because he feels that would benefit him as well, since he’d be administrating the show from an economic standpoint. Sooooo… he’s good. Not evil.
“As soon as he offered 90 deaths to that mercenary, it was plain that Deus is not letting morals get in his way,”
I don’t know what you’re talking about here. If you mean the ’99 lives for the dagger’ thing that he said to Cthillia, he did no such thing. He said he might have a solution for that. Which very likely means a workaround which won’t involve killing 99 people.
“He’s employing the demons who are literally there to overthrow all governments and unite the world. ”
They are not there to overthrow all governments. They left after the talk with Maxima and Dabbler. They came back to work for Deus for a very specific purpose. They are not themselves taking over anything. Deus already described his plan in DETAIL. It did not involve having demons overthrow all governments and unite the world. It involved LEGAL economic manipulation and getting nations to voluntarily join his union after he consolidates his African Union. And he’s going to get the US to finance it WILLINGLY by offering them stuff they can’t possibly refuse because what he’s offering is far too valuable.
“He’s totally evil.”
He is not remotely evil.
“Evil people are not forbidden from doing nice things.”
The more good things you point out that he does, the less it feels like he’s evil. Because… he’s not evil. He’s quite proud of how his plan does NOT involve anything stereotypically evil, in fact, and bragged about that to Maxima AND Sydney.
Eh, you’re just conflating the tools with the goals.
Wealth creation makes him more money and gets him more loyal followers than wealth capture. If the other way worked better, he’d use that.
Or, to put it another way, if the people in Mozambique didn’t want him to come through, do you think he would have stopped?
I don’t. I still think he would have done the exact same things to earn their loyalty, and it would have worked, but that’s neither here nor there, because he picked the region to work his wiles in knowing all this stuff in advance. Imagine if he picked a poor country with high patriotism who just said No. It would be stupid of him (he’d do his research ahead of time) so he didn’t do it.
Deus says his economic union, yada yada. He’s also intimated to Maxima that she’s on the wrong side, and he’s noted before he has a plan to conquer the world. The demons are working for him because he’s helping them take over the world, or they wouldn’t be working for him. How he crafts the narrative is just marketing!
Stereotypically evil behavior doesn’t get him what he wants. Being evil isn’t about doing evil things right and left. It’s being willing to do evil things to get what you want, if that’s the best way to do so.
If it turns out that the dagger has a method for getting powered up by not murdering ninety people like its text suggests, I’ll throw some doubt on the whole thing. But I also note that he took a lot of expensive toys that were locked up simply because they either were very nasty/evil, or encouraged the use of nasty/evil methods, and he did so with the goal of either using them himself or selling them off. If doing so leads to a lot of people dying, no skin off his nose.
Really, he gave Krona a device that could be used as an interdimensional invasion portal, just because she could make the thing and he figured he could steal it back. If he was wrong, welp, someone else will handle it.
Evil does not have to use cartoon evil methods to be what it is. It only has to be WILLING to, and that’s the whole rub of it… I can’t see where Deus is reluctant to do so when it serves him best to be that way. The fact he’s totally willing to use the best method for the problem isn’t going to stop him when that best method is utterly malicious when needed.
RED: Speculating that he might be willing to do horrible things, when most of the things he has done in the comic are beneficial for others, is not a very convincing argument. Incorrectly naming characters contributes to the perception that your arguments are not based on accurate memories of the comic.
“Wealth creation makes him more money and gets him more loyal followers than wealth capture. If the other way worked better, he’d use that.”
Wealth capture runs counter to his entire philosophy, as well as the philosophy of any competent capitalist. usually Wealth capture is how socialists, very poorly learned mercantilists, and others who do not understand economics on a large scale see capitalism. As a closed pie instead of an open one. Also people who just want a quick buck and do not care if it ruins things for everyone else in the future. Which again is NOT how Deus operates.
“Or, to put it another way, if the people in Mozambique didn’t want him to come through, do you think he would have stopped?”
Yes. Because without popular support from the people who live there, it would have been much harder to hold onto the area even if it was just as easy to take it. See Afghanistan under the Russians as an example. Or the US under the British even.
“Imagine if he picked a poor country with high patriotism who just said No.”
That’s part of the reason he did NOT pick a place that has high patriotism of a populace that loves their government, or a government that isnt horribly corrupt and abusive in the first place. Heck, that’s largely why he decided on Southern Africa. It was either there or Central America/South America, and the latter would have made the Americans very antsy because of how geographically close it would be… and that would work against his long-term goals. Southern part of Africa was cheaper to build infrastructure for, had a population less loyal to the tin-pot dictators (even if both regions have nations that have highly corrupt governments), the GDP of most nations in Southern part of Africa is VERY low comparatively (except maybe South Africa itself), making improvements much more immediately noticeable, etc. He put thought into where he’d start based on many variables.
“He’s also intimated to Maxima that she’s on the wrong side,”
He’s intimated that Maxima’s goal is not to make things better – it’s just to keep the status quo, even if the status quo is not inherently great.
“Stereotypically evil behavior doesn’t get him what he wants. ”
And therefore, it’s another reason why he’s NOT evil. Being evil does not get him what he wants. Being good does. The fact that he does good for reasons that ultimately benefit him doesn’t change that he does good, not evil. It means he’s not only good, but he’s also PRACTICAL and successful.
“If it turns out that the dagger has a method for getting powered up by not murdering ninety people like its text suggests,”
The text actually suggests her has a workaround that would NOT involve that. If it involved that, Cthillia is more than capable of doing that on her own with relative ease. Deus offered an alternative possibly because he does not WANT 99 innocent people to be murdered.
“Really, he gave Krona a device that could be used as an interdimensional invasion portal,”
No, he gave SCIONA (not Krona) information on where she could find a device which could be used to let her get OFF EARTH. The Sky ripper hadn othing to do with being an interdimensional invasion portal – it just let her get back to Alar, where she could THEN have her people invade Earth the ol’ fashioned way. The only thing they used the portal for ultimately was as refugees, not conquerors. And if Deus has ‘super predictive’ abilities (like Krona does with her goggles), and has an uncanny knack for knowing things he shouldnt know, maybe he somehow knew that the Alari Empire was already destroyed and Sciona’s plans were NOT going to work out. So what he did was just to get him the Sky Ripper.
“Evil does not have to use cartoon evil methods to be what it is.”
But it does have to actually be… yknow… EVIL. Which Deus doesnt seem to bother being. What you think he MIGHT do is not in line with what he HAS done.
And while I don’t drink, I would think one could freeze the cognac and have cognac cubes that would chill the drink and not affect the taste.
Really good drinks don’t freeze properly it would just be a slush unless the freezer is very cold if you need a cold drink so badly store them in a refrigerator. Drinks over ice is just how people cover the fact they can’t handle the nip/burn of the type of drink they’re having.
To genuinely freeze liquor you need to get to temperatures where you’d be at a real risk of the cubes sticking to your lips, which would be rather embarrassing, setting aside that the liquor would be so cold you’d get tongue frostbite.
It takes a much lower, temperature to freeze alcohol, than it does water. Which is why the US Army, uses alcohol thermometers, in arctic climates. I was in Alaska, when I was in The Army.
I assume panel 1 is making fun of the self-diagnosed fad dieters, but as someone with family who have actual medically-diagnosed Celiac disease, it still falls pretty flat.
Access to gluten-free foods is a legitimately good thing that harms noone and is a godsend for many.
You know Dave, you spoiled your own reveal.
There is nothing on this page to make us assume he is talking about himself. Maybe don’t spell it out for us until it’s overtly stated on page?
Based on the panel… I think the agency was trying to increase proliferation? Could go either way, but for Dues Superion (Phd) mentioning mitigation. And we already know he can get close tp messing up his lines so just doubles down instead of messing it up or backtracking(as a chronic stutterer I’m more jealous of that than his superpower). Maybe they’re trying to increase distribution for some possibly-teleporter-related reason.
I too have family with Celiac, and I agree that having more gluten-free options is amazing – much of it is not only edible now, but actually tasty! But I’ve rolled my eyes often enough at overhearing faddies in a store rationalize to each other their non-existent need for a gluten-free option of whatever (even things that don’t even have flour!) that I think the joke is spot-on.
(Also, bonus points for using a baking failure idiom in a gluten commentary, although I’m still debating if that was intentional.)
So I guess they did install that “wake up” button on the Remote?
Or has he switched to Alari batteries?
well, in some drinks and cocktail ice is a proper ingredient, taking account that it melts and adds water.
non-alcoholic: ginger-ale is supposed to be served with shaved ice, because the shavings adhere to the bubbles, enhancing the flavour
The problem with trying to write a super intelligent person, is that the writer isn’t super intelligent, and almost always not even the smartest person in the room.
Hey! That was mean! Accurate, but still mean!
I was going to warn about that but you beat me to it.
Once you establish a character as highly intelligent, it’s a difficult task to not accidentally write him doing/saying something beneath his alleged superintelligence.
Is that the American sub captain from “The Hunt for Red October” in panel two?
Bart Mancuso! I was thinking the same thing, and just spent my time scrolling the comments to see if anyone else spotted it, too. :)
I mean, who else would be super into logistics.
I thought this had already been called a long time ago.
Deus was seriously ‘kid about to be let loose on his Xmas presents’ in the 2nd to last panel
Ian “Gun Jesus” McCollum of Forgotten Weapons has a revolver speed-loader containing six solid stainless steel model 7.62×39 mm rifle rounds in his freezer, specifically for the purpose of cooling drinks without diluting them.
Deus probably used clear crystalline aluminium just because he wants people to know that he can.
Cognac over ice in whiskey glasses. And not the cheap stuff either. Realy now, Dave. But maybe Deus is a classic ’80s American yuppie at heart. Like drinking the most expensive whisky he can find over ice mixed with the most expensive cola drink he can find. Goes well with the silly gadgets, sure.
Ice in bourbon is an American thing. The euro snobs will at most put a drop of (glacier melt)water in their whisky to “open up the flavours”. But AFAIK not even that in cognac. On the other hand, ouzo or raki or vodka is served cold, so the bottle is commonly found in the freezer.
Apparently, if you must chill your bourbon, the thing to have is chilled marble cubes.
Remember, whisky has already been significantly diluted as part of the bottling process (typically from cask-strength 60-65% ABV to 40% ABV), so adding a drop or two of water to open up the flavours isn’t significant in terms of altering the strength, however there is some scientific evidence for it altering the evaporation process and the relative concentrations of the volatile chemicals. So I’ll take my euro-snobbery with a drop of science.
Anyone who managed to serve ouzo or raki freezer cold in a Greek summer pre-freezers has my admiration.
“Anyone who managed to serve ouzo or raki freezer cold in a Greek summer pre-freezers has my admiration.”
I am ignorant in the ways of alcohol beyond that gewurztraminer tastes really good.
Please explain what raki is and why it has your admiration?
Turkish raki is comparable to ouzo. You might be familiar with ouzo as the small glasses of anise-ish drink you get served without asking in (some) Greek restaurants. Reading a bit, turns out how you get served it abroad is not really how the Greeks drink it. I was mainly thinking of vodka, which I don’t drink but which is commonly found in the freezer.
Both ouzo and raki are commonly diluted, the anise causes the drink to go milky. Much like Absinthe (“the green fairy”, some is sold at undrinkable high ABV), which is no longer banned in Europe. I’d guess that even in Greek summers well water stays reasonably cool. And these days, there’ll be ice, why not.
Okay. You made me laugh.
However, I would then ask what constitutes a ‘super’ intellect. How would you define it? There’s other kinds of intelligence. Mathematical intellect is not the same as social intellect is not the same as physical intellect. Mozart was a super musical intellect, but I doubt he was on top to local slang. If I had to guess, I would guess that Deus has strategic intellect. That’s the intellect to see the pieces on the board and to know what moves he has to do to win. So yeah, it would work wonders for a CEO. That lines up.
The problem is when someone with super strategic intellect concludes ‘Well we’re going to need to kill 3 billion people. Trust me, I’m super smart.’
I’ve occasionally used the comparison that Mozart, Einstein and Disney were all geniuses, but you probably wouldn’t expect Mozart to create the Theory of Relativity, nor Einstein to create entertainment of the level of Disney, nor Disney to write The Magic Flute. They were all geniuses within their own areas of endeavor but genius comes in a huge variety of flavors.
The fact that the sub commander is Captain Bart Mancuso is making me smile–I love Tom Clancy references. Although I don’t think he ever made it onto a boomer as a direct CO, just a fast attack submarine.
It should make everyone smile…and the people who aren’t smiling need to watch Red October again (or for the first time…whichever is applicable).
Funny how all comments about ice in alcohol are about dilluting the stuff. And about how metal/stone whisky stones actually work or not.
That’s actually not the problem.
Yes, ice melting is great for cooling because phase transition and energy needed.
Yes, whisky stones are a thing (and I’d prefer the stainless steel ones, even if I don’t think stone is a problem to clean, but for better chemical stability)
But you simply don’t want to cool your drink! The colder it is, the less taste you’ll get out of it.
Exeption: in really hot climate it might be somewhat okay-ish to cool whisky/brandy/whatever. But I’d think Deus would invest in AC for the whole room instead (or put the drink into a room temperature fridge – he probably has a wine fridge around anyways)
I just want to say that I really appreciate the fact that Deus wears a trinity knot instead of something boring.
They actually make drink chilling cubes out of stone you can freeze and put in drinks so as not to either dilute the drink or alter its taste. I’m sure a rich “not supervillain” like Deus would have something similar if he likes his drinks chilled. Though they would probably be something esoteric like transparent aluminum rather than simple stone because that’s just so plebeian.
“They actually make drink chilling cubes out of stone you can freeze and put in drinks ” You cannot freeze stone as it is already “FROZEN” just very cold.
I think that explains why Deus was able to make Dabs have a case of the “but…but…” and why he’s been able to make himself super rich super fast. There is a huge difference between someone who’s a genius at math, art, coding etc and someone that is truly a genius at everything that would almost make them a super!
Hi Dave,
It’s actually okay to put ice in a number of liquors. Whisk(e)y, Ryes, Bourbons, etc *can* have a significant change in flavor or nose profile when ice or a little water is added. Not all, of course, and again depending on one’s palate, it may or may not be an improvement. For example, Booker’s Tag-a-long batch, I tend to prefer with some ice in it, and I think it goes stupidly well with “Texas style” bbq (that is, smoked meats with tomato based BBQ sauce).
I’m sure there are people that would say I was nuts for putting ice in that bourbon, or that it pairs horribly with BBQ. A lot is preference and experimentation.
I picked up a bottle of whiskey that I find terrible as both a neat drink or with ice, however use it in a Manhattan? Wow! Great for those.
Well ,Deus may be super-intelligent, but he is still American – he will put ice in any non-hot drink, even cognac. It is a cultural thing, such as eating fermented fish. Gross, but cultural.
LOL
Hey now, I’m an American, and there are plenty of ‘non-hot’ drinks I will drink at room temperature. Including a wide variety of alcoholic beverages.
There are also Americans who prefer to drink Yuengling beer at room temp because they claim (see: I don’t know and haven’t bothered to look it up because I drink very little beer and care even less) that Yuengling is still using the same recipe they used back when they first opened shop in the States, long before refrigeration was invented (it’s ‘Americas Oldest Brewer’ apparently). So their recipe is designed to around it being room temp.
Again, not a beer drinking, so that information is both apocryphal and hearsay. :)
Oh, thought of a more topical comment for today’s comic. Super Intelligence might not be referring to a superhuman. It could be referring to one of the more “classic” definitions around that, which is a highly evolved, self-aware A.I.
Especially now that Deus has been out to an alien world with hyper-tech, I imagine he can easily recognize the plausibility of independent A.I.s being out there, and how they might see Earth as a fun playground, given our comparatively primitive technology.
If Deus has his fingers on the pulse of everything, it would be like a spiders web. He would be able to ‘detect the vibration’ of any A.I. that tries to influence or hi-jack things. So he might see himself as the big-picture safety net.
Good call – an A.I. with superpowers would definitely be a huge (potential) threat to civilization, and I can’t recall that I’ve ever seen that combination before. Or A.I. and magic… come to think of it an A.I. is pretty much always just that, gotta be some good cross-genre stuff out there though.
I think an A.I. intelligent enough and able to sense the fields necessary to use magic would need to be created just for that purpose and anyone dumb enough to do that without some seriously considered restrictions would just be dumb and you seen what happened to the wizards that created the succubi lol!