Grrl Power #1025 – Military industrial simple
Maxima obviously did some googling before her visit. Certainly hit up the wikipedia page for Mozambique at the very least.
Deus feels that the major problems with your typical supervillain plan are threefold. One, the plans are of such scale that they force an immediate response, i.e., holding a city hostage with a nuke. Two, the plans are public. He attributes this to 95% of supervillains having deep seated narcissistic personality disorder. That is, they care more about notoriety than results. The authorities can’t exactly ignore the Joker when he’s taking over the airwaves. Three, they unleash 98% of their plans in New York/Metropolis or whatever Gotham is the analog of. Chicago? I assume Star City is Detroit for some reason. Again, people are going to take note.
But if you get the ball rolling in BFE*, or better yet, 2,500 miles south of E, then there’s literally no one of sufficient authority/military/political strength who can do anything about it. Even if he came out of the chute with the city hostage plan, the average American, European or Pacific Rim politician will probably hear about it in a briefing, but it doesn’t exactly jump to the top of the actionable items queue. Well, okay, if he does it with a rogue nuke, he’ll pull lots of attention, but a swift and conventional military coup seems like de rigueur for that part of the world.
An army that includes Supers, Aliens, and now Demons… well… That’s really pushing the cusp of attention garnering. It’s a fair bet every intelligence agency in the world has their eye on Galytn right now. The thing is, if he spends the next five years building roads and hospitals and schools and laying power cables and internet, a lot of people will probably unclench. The next time he makes a push, then it becomes a pattern, and he’ll probably need to start answering some hard questions.
* I keep forgetting that I have readers abroad and/or ESL readers, so I’ll try and explain colloquialisms when I think about it. BFE stands for “Butt-Fucking Egypt” which basically just means “the middle of nowhere” which is a pretty American, isolationist sort of expression. Egypt being the cradle of civilization, more or less excludes it from being “nowhere.” But it sounds funny, and almost any American knows what it means AFAIK.
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Deus isn’t evil, he’s just clever. He doesn’t conquer people, he benefits them and they accept him as their benefactor. That he has the ability to surgically remove a corrupt government with a minimum of fuss is a definite bonus. Money talks and bullshit walks; as the saying goes.
Deus walked very far, and knows when to spend his words.
And his bullets.
he is doing a very good impression of dawkins enlightened self interest.
I couldnt have put it better myself.
I still see him as a Lex Luthor type of villian. However, unlike Luthor he has not done anything outwardly bad yet. The actual extend of what he does is maybe more what some writers portray Dr. Doom as a leader being genuinely loved by his people and he genuinely loves them, but is hostile to any outside persons.
He also doesn’t have a personal hate on for any of the supers he politely talks to. another one up from Lex who hates the alien
“he has not done anything outwardly bad yet”
He staged a palace coup, right from the start, and got media coverage. Maxima was knowing this when she and Sydney visited him. All the wheeling and dealing with Alari, Fracture and Hell escaped public eyes, yes.
Well, but Deus is doing something outwardly bad NOW. He outright admitted his plan to his future adversaries, at a time when stopping him is yet conceivably possible.
WHY. Won’t Maxima nip this in the buds.
What is this bad thing that he’s doing? Providing goods, services, and jobs? Raising the standard of living? Building infrastructure?
You’ll have to be specific.
Your post is very confusing because there’s a lot wrong with it when you categorize Deus’s action as ‘bad.’
“He staged a palace coup,”
He didnt ‘stage’ anything. It was perfectly within Indinge’s power to avoid it. Also lets steelman your argument.
He freed a people from an evil warlord who was torturing, raping, disappearing and murdering men, women, and children for his own sense of evil jollies. This murderous warlord who he freed the people of Galytn from was also exploiting them, keeping them in abject poverty and starvation, and embezzling any possible funds that would come to the nation in humanitarian aid.
“right from the start, ”
From the start, he was trying to do reasonable business with him, not start a coup.
” and got media coverage.”
Okay this part is correct. He got media coverage. Clearly he’s the devil.
Wait, how is getting media coverage bad?
“Maxima was knowing this when she and Sydney visited him. ”
Maxima has had dealing with a demon too. One of those demons is on her team. ARCHON pays her. ARCHON also has an alliance with an entire council which includes demons AND aliens and vampires and werewolves and a lot of other groups, which ARCHON and the United States government has been doing joint operations and business with for over a century.
How is Deus doing something bad, again?
“All the wheeling and dealing with Alari,”
How is taking in refugees bad, when no one else on Earth was willing to, and Deus saw the benefit of doing so?
Oh god, he’s taking in refugees who have lost their home. What a horrible person. Wait no, that’s the opposite of bad.
“Fracture”
How is going to Fracture bad? Sydney went to Fracture as well. So has Cora, who has been allying herself with ARCHON. So has Dabbler, who is PART of ARCHON. So have members of the Council, who are allied with ARCHON and the US government.
Oh yeah, and Sydney went to Fracture, PLUS came back with alien good from Fracture (Grakz AND the holographic wings – she also caused a bunch of ships to crash into each other and was involved in a fight alongside Cora in which several aliens died). She also never paid for anything she got at Fracture, glomming off others instead.
On the other hand, Deus went to Fracture, made a business deal with another vendor, paid just compensation for the goods, and came back home.
Okay I’m lost on how Deus going to Fracture is bad.
“and Hell”
1) Technically not Hell. They’re extraplanetary (possibly extradimensional?) beings that happen to be demons.
2) Dabbler has dealings with them too. One of them is in a contract where he basically owns her, legally, by her own free will.
3) Deus engaged in a business contract with them. They accepted. They are likely getting just compensation as well based on how Deus sent them a business contract proposal that they accepted.
How is that bad again?
So far, you havent shown any examples of Deus doing anything bad.
“Well, but Deus is doing something outwardly bad NOW. He outright admitted his plan to his future adversaries, at a time when stopping him is yet conceivably possible.”
How is that BAD?
1) He’s telling them his COMPLETELY LEGAL PLANS ON HOW TO LEGALLY TAKE OVER THE WORLD.
2) The only way to stop him, assuming his plan works, is for ARCHON to actually be villains. Since Deus seems to NOT be acting like a villain at all.
What, is Archon going to fly in and stop nations from engaging in legal business contract? Are they going to get themselves involved in foreign wars? Oh wait, THEY signed the treaty. THAT would be illegal. Are they going to tell Deus he can’t sell $300 billion in military goods to the United States after the US wants to enter into that contract? I guess ARCHON would have to take over the US to do that. Wait no. See… THAT would be evil.
“WHY. Won’t Maxima nip this in the buds.”
Nip WHAT in the buds? Business deals? Of which she isnt even a party?
What has Deus done bad?
He’s given millions of people infrastructure, food, wealth, skills, education, freedom from tyranny and opporession and torture and murder, fresh water, and done so somehow in an ENVIRONMENTALLY SUSTAINABLE WAY which seems to me to be overcompensating on how good he’s being. :)
The only bad people he’s EVER hurt have been a violent, bloodthirsty, outrightly EVIL man, and soldiers during war which he not only tried to prevent from happening, he also tried to minimize any casualties and immediately accepted surrender afterwards to prevent any additional casualties.
Oh also, Galytn was already at war with Mozambique BEFORE Deus ever was in Galytn. Galytn was at war with ALL of its neighbors thanks to Indinge. They were just on the losing side before. As soon as Deus decided to fight back, in order to carve a path to the ocean. in an area where the RESIDENTS OF MOZAMBIQUE WERE BEGGING HIM TO COME IN TO ADD HIS INFRASTRUCTURE TO THEIR LIVES….. he was able to win that war, extremely quickly, which means even fewer casualties.
Deus was depicted as a “bad guy” early on then as the character was fleshed out he started to go from “evil” to ‘neutral” which in my opinion is a grey area in general.
It is very unlikely he will ever be truly “good” maybe ‘neutral-good” unless his endgame is something truly evil or one of the groups he’s enlisted into helping him do a double cross or is part of an evil endgame plan that hasn’t been discovered yet I would say Deus is just a damned good businessman with strictly business goals in mind. Good or evil is really just an opinion based on media bias and public opinion more than anything or just point-of-view based on who is proclaiming it.
So far the only “evil” Deus has done is break a few intergalactic laws to acquire tech and lets face it; so did Sydney! Ok she found it granted but would the galactic council be ok with a back-water planet having that kind of tech? Yeah I didn’t think so.
“Deus was depicted as a “bad guy” early on”
In what way has he ever been depicted as a bad guy? He likes villainous tropes. But he’s never BEEN villainous. From the beginning he hasnt ever been ‘a bad guy.’ In fact, one of the first references that Maxima makes to Sydney about Deus is that Sydney and Deus will probably get along GREAT. Annnnd they do. Both are very genre savvy and both are …. sort of nerds. Although Deus is a handsome, hypercompetent, mysterious, fabulously wealthy and suave attittude with amazing hair and muscles. Who is also incredible at sex (although I guess Revenge of the Nerds stated that to be a fact anyway).
“then as the character was fleshed out he started to go from “evil” to ‘neutral” ”
I agree he started to get fleshed out, but the only thing that might have made him go from ‘evil’ to ‘neutral’ is the realization that all the villain tropes he likes is just that – a love of villain tropes, rather than his being an actual villain. Or even wanting to be a villain. He just likes the branding at most. Overall, Deus is a really good guy from all actions he’s taken.
“It is very unlikely he will ever be truly “good”
I think he already is good. The guy does a whole lot of good for others. Even if it’s motivated by greed, the fact is the end result, which he plans as an end result, is to to good, and most (if not all) of the midway points ALSO do a lot of good. He’s just practical about it.
So I’d actually say he’s chaotic good. Although if someone like you said he’s chaotic neutral I probably wouldnt fight it too much, even though I disagree with the characterization of Deus as merely ‘neutral.’ It’s at least still conceivable for the future that he might go from ‘good’ to ‘neutral’ though.
“Good or evil is really just an opinion based on media bias and public opinion more than anything or just point-of-view based on who is proclaiming it.”
There are points for an against this view that I could argue with or support so….. sure, why not. I agree with you. But as far as the society in which Deus was raised, and the one most of us are raised, what Deus has done for most of his appearances, and his overall results have been ‘good.’
“So far the only “evil” Deus has done is break a few intergalactic laws to acquire tech and lets face it; so did Sydney!”
I agree. Very good point on both counts. Although I don’t think that either Deus or Sydney did anything illegal by breaking a few intergalactic trade laws, since those laws really tend to be for the people who HAVE the technology not giving it to lower tech species, not against the lower tech species themselves. So I’m not sure that Deus or Sydney actually even broke any laws at all. MAYBE Sydney did a little because of her orbs. Maybe. But I can’t really hold it against her since it’s not actually ‘her’ tech.
It’s not like the Xevoarchy are the arbiters of good and evil, after all. :)
Oh yes, Indinge could have avoided the coup… by submitting to the coup
Stop painting the world in fifty shades of douche
He could have also avoided the coup by suggesting that he have some time to consider Deus’s proposal. Then do some research to see if Deus was actually capable of doing what he was promising. This would have impressed Deus, and made Indinge look like someone he can actually work with. Or at the very least, someone who was not going to try to kill him.
yeah but thats the problem though hes great short term but if he doesn’t have like an army of clones that last till eons into the future all of this is for not. soon an even more greedy person shows up or maybe the cousin of a warlord with a pension for passcience gets leader ship roles and he becomes leader and we all banter up to kill him. as soon as deus dies the world will fall apart. thats what happens when empires crumble because heirs think differently then you. i mean ever look at those old bond villains they spent all of their life getting to the point they can threaten the planet but what good is it if when your done your in like your 60s how long do they have to wait tilll you just keel over dead and then break up and start this over again. thats why conquest is for fools.
“yeah but thats the problem though hes great short term but if he doesn’t have like an army of clones that last till eons into the future”
No one tell Mavin about the closet of clones. He might not take it well.
” soon an even more greedy person shows up or maybe the cousin of a warlord with a pension for passcience gets leader ship roles and he becomes leader and we all banter up to kill him. as soon as deus dies the world will fall apart.”
What do we know about Deus definitively? He is EXTREMELY good at planning. He’s good at knowing things that he really shouldnt know, and is an amazing long term strategist. He thinks in decades, not days.
Do you think maybe he has a plan for this as well?
“you just keel over dead and then break up and start this over again. thats why conquest is for fools.”
That seems very nihilistic of you. Everything will eventually break down because of entropy so why bother doing anything ever?
Wait wait wait! I call sheningans. Since when is war “legal”? Starting a war can get you prosecuted. Plus, with Deus’ business being international (and significant portions of it still based in the States, it seems), there are plenty of ways of other governments to retaliate for his warmongering ways…
So? Look up the Fruit Wars.
Two words: defensive war.
You can hardly be prosecuted for something if you’re not the “aggressor” (unless you lose, of course), and countries have been creating excuses to go to war with each other for centuries. And if I understand Deus correctly, he’s only going to go to war with folks who refuse to see the advantages of becoming economic partners, for the benefit of both parties.
Basically he’s just doing what humans have been doing for as long as we’ve been humans. He’s just better at it.
Right, Mozambique was fighting a defensive war against Deus who was the aggressor.
And literally fielded demons to destroy Mozambique’s defense force. This war is as illegal as it possibly gets.
Imagine Deus staging a fake Mazambique attack on Galytn’s border. Now *he’s* the defendant, not Mozambique.
Or imagine Deus using his wealth to fake some documents, muddle some water, and create a somewhat plausible, yet completely bullshit theory, that the land in question should not belong to Mozambique, but to another, new nation entirely… a new nation that surprisingly would like to now be liberated and subsequently absorbed by Galytn.
Creating a casus belli is nothing new. Just look at the current situation in Ukraine for real life examples.
Or he could declare some part of Mozambique to be an independent nation and then send in his forces for ‘peacekeeping’ duties. There’s undoubtedly some Marjorie Taylor Greene analogue who is asking for a national divorce and will thereby give him political cover.
“Right, Mozambique was fighting a defensive war against Deus who was the aggressor.”
Actually, according to Indinge, Galytn was already at war with ALL of its neighbors. That would include Mozambique.
“And literally fielded demons to destroy Mozambique’s defense force.”
How’s that illegal?
“This war is as illegal as it possibly gets.”
How? There hasn’t been anything they’ve done that violates any rules of war, such as they are. Especially not any rules of war in treaties of which Galytn is a signatory.
Give an example. You can’t bring up demons because ARCHON has a demon working for it as well. And they are in an alliance with a Council of which one of its member groups are INFERNALS. Represented by a succubus.
Show me what Deus did in this war which was illegal? He immediately accepted enemy troops’ terms of surrender. The war was formally announced. The enemy forces were clearly marked as enemy forces, so as not to be confused with spies.
What did he do that was illegal?
War is not illegal. Governments are perfectly and legally permitted to wage war. Private individuals and non-government organisations are not allowed to legally declare or wage war, but Deus is Galytn’s finalcial and military prime authority, a major figure in Galytn’s government, and since it is Galytn, not Deus, who fought that war, it was perfectly legal, even if it wasn’t ethically excusable. Don’t forget, he went into Mozambique to give Galytn access to the sea…that is prime Casus Belli
We honestly don’t have background on when he flew in and asked a hiding former leadership who was still technically recognized as the only leaders of the country by most of the countries in the world, if he wanted aid in the form of effing things up, improving the livelyhood of everyone in it. and making the infrastructure just look better than it did
Please show me the law under which it states that one nation declaring war on another nation is illegal.
Go ahead.
I’ll wait.
I think you are mistaking if war is illegal with are there rules under international law for war.
Modern laws of war regarding conduct during war, such as the 1949 Geneva Conventions, provide that it is unlawful for belligerents to engage in combat without meeting certain requirements, such as wearing distinctive uniform or other distinctive signs visible at a distance, carrying weapons openly, etc.
Deus met those requirements even if you hold him to the Geneva Conventions. And as has already been stated, Galytn is not a signatory to the rules against using supers in war yet, and you cannot hold a nation to a treaty which they did not sign.
Please show me the law under which it states that one nation can’t hold another nation to a treaty which they did not sign ;)
“Please show me the law under which it states that one nation can’t hold another nation to a treaty which they did not sign ;)”
Torabi, no offense but that’s not a very intelligent question to ask.
1) You’re asking me to prove a negative. Whereas my question was to show that someone ELSE -can- do something (ie, declare a war illegal).
Torabi, show me the law which says that I cannot hold YOU to a contract I just wrote at my desk, which you did NOT sign onto, which says you need to immediately pay me $1000 or hit your head against the wall. That’s basically the same thing as what you asked me, but on an international standard. You won’t find a law that states that, because you that assumes every single possible thought that has EVER existed must have a law first.
However, I have an easier way to respond to your post because your question ignores the entire legal basis of a contract, period.
2) The entire point OF a contract is that a contract is only valid if it ha offer, acceptance, and consideration. A treaty is a contract. If a contract does not have offer, acceptance, and consideration, then it is invalid by the LEGAL DEFINITION OF WHAT A CONTRACT IS.
If you make a contract, and someone else does not sign that contract, then there is an offer, but no acceptance OR consideration. There is no contract then.
Back to my above example of a contract I wrote, that you did not sign, that says you have to give me $1000 or you need to bash your head into a wall. Now you didn’t sign that contract. So the only way for me to get the terms o that contract is to physically steal $1000 from you and if you resist, to bash your head into a wall.
Which… isnt a contract. It’s assault, battery, and theft.
Hope that explains my point.
With my asking if there is a law that declares one nation declaring war on another illegal, that is NOT asking to prove a negative. That’s asking to prove a positive. To prove the act of declaring that war itself is illegal. Which you cannot do, because such a law does not exist. The closest that exists are things like the Geneva Conventions, whch have rules for once war has been declared.
Btw, there wouldnt need to be rules for how to act once war has been declared in international law…. if war itself was illegal in the first place.
Logic isn’t binding on behavior. I may just be arguing about your use of “can’t”. You absolutely can hold another nation to the terms of a treaty they did not sign. It may not be logical, moral, ethical, or sane, but none of those are barriers to actually doing it. You talk as if the law has some power to compel behavior, and it doesn’t. Law without enforcement has no power over people who aren’t captive to the illusion.
And a treaty could just as easily state that not only do the parties agree not to do something, but that they will all step in and prevent non-signatories from doing that something using their combined might.
“Logic isn’t binding on behavior.”
Then your argument seems to be that laws in general are meaningless and you’re arguing in favor of pure anarchy, which seems like a pretty nihilistic view to have.
“You absolutely can hold another nation to the terms of a treaty they did not sign.”
No. You can’t. Not if you want the concept of a ‘treaty’ to actually mean ANYTHING. If you don’t care what a treaty is, and don’t care what a contract or deal is, then EVERY interaction between two people is pretty much impossible to make because you can NEVER trust anyone. Because there will never be any way to your satisfaction to make agreements between different groups.
“It may not be logical, moral, ethical, or sane, but none of those are barriers to actually doing it.”
All those are definitely barriers. Because the result of breaking treaties in this way means war. PLUS it means the treaty itself is meaningless even to the signatories, and there is no reason to EVER make another treaty again because what will just happen is ‘whoever is strongest will force everyone else to do what they want, and if they don’t they will try to kill each other.’
“You talk as if the law has some power to compel behavior, and it doesn’t. Law”
Yes, it does. It has a societal impact on a population. If enough people believe in a law, the society will enforce it. If law enforcement does not, eventually that society snaps and the population will turn against those who are supposed to enforce it, take them down, and replace them with people who WILL enforce the laws fairly. Revolution WILL inevitably happen, and it will be very violent and bloody. You can only push civilizations so far. If history has shown us ANYTHING, it’s shown us that time and time again.
“And a treaty could just as easily state that not only do the parties agree not to do something, but that they will all step in and prevent non-signatories from doing that something using their combined might.”
1) That’s not how the treaty is written
2) That’s not how any treaty is written.
3) That’s not a treaty.
4) The closest thing there is to a treaty even SLIGHTLY like what you’re proposing is something like NATO. Which is an agreement to defend signatory nations against outside threats – the NATO nations from Russia. AND EVEN THEN, the treaty is NOT written to have NATO nations come together to protect NON-signatory nations from Russia. So it’s nothing like what you’re suggesting. You are not describing a treaty. You’re just describing wars.
I’m not arguing in favor of anarchy. I’m saying that most people follow the law due to the threat of force, rather than the strength of its logic.
Most people or nations don’t care about the conceptual level of anything, including treaties. It’s a play in a language game to get other people to do what they want. If you tell them they can’t hold other nations to a treaty that nation did not sign, they’re most likely to respond with either “Yes I can, with my army”, or “Says who, and do they have an army?”
Exactly. It is the people’s belief in the law that compels behavior, not the law itself.
“I’m saying that most people follow the law due to the threat of force, rather than the strength of its logic.”
Just to be clear, ultimately EVERYTHING comes down to violence in the end. Laws are an attempt to put a stopgap measure between agreements and civilization, and NEEDING to resort to violence.
Thomas Jefferson believed that when he wrote to William Smith that “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
And Heinlein put it VERY well in Starship Troopers, as quoted by Michael Ironside’s character, Jean Rasczak:
“Something given has no value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you’re using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived. […] Naked force has resolved more conflicts throughout history than any other factor. The contrary opinion, that violence doesn’t solve anything, is wishful thinking at its worst. People who forget that always die.”
It’s put even better in the original book from 1959:
“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue-and thoroughly immoral-doctrine that, ‘violence never settles anything’ I would advise to conjure the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom.”
Sergeant (turned Private) Zim had a good quote about violence as it pertains to laws and war as well, and how even war is ‘controlled’ violence:
“If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cut its head off? Of course not. You’d paddle it. There can be circumstances when it’s just as foolish to hit an enemy city with an H-bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an axe. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government’s decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him…but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing…but controlled and purposeful violence. But it’s not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It’s never a soldier’s business to decide when or where or how—or why—he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people—’older and wiser heads,’ as they say—supply the control. Which is as it should be.”
“It is the people’s belief in the law that compels behavior, not the law itself.”
If the law itself did not exist, then there would be no buffer against simply going straight to violence every single time. See the above quote by Zim.
No war isn’t “legal” but, and I stress “but”, the USA broke several laws to start the revolutionary war with the British just to name an example. Deus tried diplomacy each and every time he’s expanded removing the problems each poor country had in they corrupted governments. We could sit here for days going back and forth about it but lets face facts: evil is in the eye of the beholder not a simple label you slap on some one or thing!
Corrupted leaders: oh he’s evil he attacked us save us please!
Starving victims of that government: Praise Deus! He has saved us, gave us jobs and healthcare! hmmm… yeah….
Just want to mention while my post starts a little adversarial, it ends with praising you. :)
“No war isn’t “legal””
How is war not legal? Explain.
“the USA broke several laws to start the revolutionary war”
The USA was not the USA when they broke those laws. They were still citizens of the British Empire. Once they declared independence, it didnt matter if they broke British Laws. They were no longer British citizens. I drive my car, and drove a lot even before 2018, so I broke a lot of laws in Saudi Arabia. Despite not being from Saudi Arabia, and not ever having been in Saudi Arabia, where it was illegal for women to drive until 2018.
I can wear a bikini, or shorts, or a short dress. And I never wear a hijab. Yknow, since I’m not muslim. So I’m breaking the law in Iran. I do not care. Because I’m not in Iran. And I’m not Iranian.
You are supposed to follow the laws of your nation. You’re under no obligation, in your own nation, to follow the laws of OTHER nations. Once the Americans declared independence, as far as they were concerned, they could not be breaking any laws of Britain because they were no longer British citizens, and were not part of the British Empire anymore. So no, the revolutionary war was not illegal. There was a declaration of independence first. Then a declaration of war happened.
That being said, I understand what you’re trying to argue and it has some merit. But I wouldn’t use it to argue that ‘war is illegal.’ The actual declaration of independence would only be illegal if…. the colonies lost the war. Because the colonies won the war….. the war was legal. :) If they had lost the war, it would have been illegal and just considered treason. :)
This isnt really analagous to Deus in Galytn at war with Mozambique though, since that’s one nation against another nation, neither of which belong to the other nation in the first place. That’s what the war is for.
“Corrupted leaders: oh he’s evil he attacked us save us please!”
And here is where we get to where I praise you because I love this sentence in your post. And I totally agree.
Oh no! The evil murderous bully tyrant thinks the guy who stopped me from being and evil murderous bully tyrant is evil! Help me please! hahaha :) Scarsdale, you rock. :)
“Starving victims of that government: Praise Deus! He has saved us, gave us jobs and healthcare! hmmm… yeah….”
And Television, don’t forget television. The adorable little girl giving the ashtray to Deus was very happy about that too.
The main reason most third world countries haven’t been able to develop is the rapant corruption, low education and tribalistic/ethnistic politics and other systemic flaws.
Removing a goverment isn’t too hard and doesn’t take long. Getting rid of systemic flaws on the other hand… well, it usually took 100 to 200 years for most western nations and dozend of wars, revolutions, coups.
It’s a little more complex than just rampant corruption and low education.
Most African nations were on starting their way up that industrialization ladder when European nations walked in and kicked over the sand castle.
Colonialism leaves deep scars. There’s a lot of ugliness in the past. Including the very recent past.
To be fair, colonialism is rather corrupt, I don’t honestly know what Crass Specktakel was intending with that word, but when I read it I filed the the colonialism under the rampant corruption header, attributed the low education at least largely to the aforementioned sand castle kicking, and figured a lot of the tribalism (at least the problematic parts of it) had something to do with those deep scars you mentioned.
That might not be what Crass was talking about, but I generally choose to give the benefit of the doubt before jumping to ignorant racism, especially since the colonialism stuff has been brought up several times in recent comment sections (because it’s relevant) and at this point I feel it’s safe to assume everyone here is at least a little bit aware of it and factoring it into their arguments (just to avoid having to retread ground over and over and over again).
“Most African nations were on starting their way up that industrialization ladder …”
Some evidence would be nice, cobber.
They were on that ladder the same way Europe was, just a tad too low and slow, and the sandcastle-kicking started waay too early, that is in the 15th century.
I think the misunderstanding there was the definition of what you each meant by “industrialization”. Pretty sure that Chaogomu wasn’t talking about “manufactoring”, not “steam-powered factories”.
“Pretty sure that Chaogomu wasn’t talking about “manufactoring”, not “steam-powered factories”.”
Ah, sorry @Onyavar, I think there might be a double negative in there someplace, I can’t parse the sentence.
However, if we say “Pretty sure that Chaogomu was talking about “manufactoring” …” it makes some sense. But that’s only a guess.
“They were on that ladder the same way Europe was, ”
They REALLY were not. Not at all. Except some parts of northern Africa along the Mediterranean. And that was largely BEACUSE of Europe and the Ottoman Empire in the first place.
Sub-saharan Africa in particular was always decidedly primitive compared to Europe, Northern Africa (people need to remember how huge Africa is compared to Europe), and parts of the Middle East. Especially the deeper you got into the center of the continent.
That’s not their fault or anything, it’s just geographic. Without waterways for trade for a civilization, it’s going to stunt progress in general.
“Most African nations were on starting their way up that industrialization ladder when European nations walked in and kicked over the sand castle.”
Just curious – which African nations are you talking about that were on their way to industrialization before European nations came in? Because if I’m not mistaken, and you’re trying to claim slavery is the reason for a lack of industrialization in Africa (and I’m also assuming you mean sub-saharan Africa as opposed to Africa along the mediterranean sea), then I believe slavery in Africa did not start with Europeans going into the Congo and capturing slaves.
It started in the middle east, then most of the slave trade originated in places like south-eastern Nigeria (the Yoruba) and other coastal cities. European buyers tended to remain on the coast, while African sellers brought slaves from the interior on foot. Other African nations involved in the selling of slaves (first to Arabs, then later to Europeans) were the Bono state and the Ashanti (of present day Ghana). Also, groups such as the Imbangala of Angola and the Nyamwezi of Tanzania would serve as intermediaries or roving bands, waging war on African states to capture people for export as slaves.
When the British tried to end slavery worldwide, the most resistance they got was FROM these coastal African nations, and Britain paid about 25% if their entire wealth in the attempt to buy slaves’ freedom in the attempt to end slavery across the British Empire (with only varying levels of success, but it was still a laudible goal).
But I don’t see anything showing that most of sub-Saharan African nations were ever was going their way up the industrialization ladder but stopped from slavery and colonization. This sounds like a false narrative.
I think this is what gorblimey is meaning, because I did look for some evidence on this and I havent found any to support your statement. Again, unless you’re referring to slave-selling African nations (which I somehow doubt is what you’re referring to) or cities along the Mediterranean along northern Africa (in which case I think the close proximity to Europe and the Middle East probably aided in the industrialization, rather than retarded that progress because of increased trade (especially after the British shutdown attempts of the slave trade).
And no I’m not British. I’m not defending the British because of anything familial. I just know this particular aspect of history so I’m relating it.
The British were late to the colonization game, though.
The slave-trader kings are already an effect of the sandcastle-kicking colonial influence. Chaogomu SAID things are more complicated, and yes they are.
I know. I’m just saying the slave trade had started before any Europeans were ever involved, and most Europeans were involved via the Dutch, who got involved via the Arabs, who got involved via the African nations I mentioned.
But like others have said, long before there were slaves going outside of Africa, there was slavery pretty much everywhere, and having nothing to do with Africa. And today, there’s still slavery having nothing to do with Africa.
But yes I agree. It’s more complicated than ‘white people went into Africa and captured slaves.’
I disagree… the reason in IRL that African nations are still sub-First World is because whenever they try to break away from the U.S., Russia, China, Japan, etc. they suddenly have their leadership killed or removed.
If you are going to make your country in a new First World nation, you have to have leadership that lasts for at least 20 years.
+!
I semi-agree with Chiristopher. Africa (in particular sub-Saharan Africa) has a history of problems with industrialization that have very little to do with colonization. You can see a distinct difference between upper Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa, despite colonization happening in both areas.
Yes, sub-Saharan Africa *as a place* is NOT a fertile paddock for imagination or mental development. You don’t need to live in the deep forests to be monstered by the Big Three, malaria, trypanosomiasis and sickle cell anemia.
I need to mention that Britain was not freed from the ague as a public health measure, but as a consequence of agriculture-driven marshland drainage. I imagine that more or less the same thing happened to “mal aria” in the Po Valley in northern Italy.
Sickle cell anemia is more complex, as it’s a heritible disease: the only way to infect someone is that both parents must carry the genes and this ensures the baby will be a sufferer. And unfortunately, the only cure — or prevention, I should say — is eugenics: if you’re a girl, DON’T GET PREGNANT. TO ANYONE. Which totally wrecks the girl’s life choices.
Add to that clusterfuck the bad news of no religion requiring written texts which then require schools to teach letters… Education is not a factor in most people’s lives.
You should now be seeing a pattern emerging.
I should also mention that saying that Sub-Saharan Africa has always been a rather primitive region of the world is not remotely racist. The same cannot be said, for example, for northern Africa, which had huge empires along the Nile River and the Mediterranean Sea.
Intersocietal trade tends to force technological and social progress at a rapid pace, period. Isolation stunts it. That’s one of the primary reasons Europe did progress so fast in those two areas compared to most of the rest of the world. A large population, of varying different societies, within close proximity to each other, with a LOT of open waterways, caravan routes, and roads (although the roads are mostly thanks to the Roman Empire).
It also helped (morbid as it is to admit) that between 10 to 40% of the population (75 million to 200 million) did get killed off by the Black Death (aka, the Bubonic Plague) in the very short scope of only 5 years, which opened a LOT of opportunity for otherwise locked-in-place classes and a LOT more travelling for labor between societies.
Sub-saharan Africa was largely cut off from most of the rest of other populated civilizations, and the population centers in sub-Saharan Africa tended to be either small, very far from each other (do not underestimate how huge Africa is), or very cloistered. The majority of the population in that particular PART of the continent was landlocked, and the areas that are not are difficult to get to even by sea, hundreds of years ago. The lower down you go, the more difficult it became to travel there by sea. Yes, there are waterways and lakes between them (Lake Malawi, Lake Tanganyika, Lake Victoria, etc) in Sub-saharan Africa as well, but for a long time they did not connect sizable population centers at all, those populations were very distant from one another, and usually very dangerous. A lot moreso than the waterways in Europe.
Not to mention that whole SAHARA DESERT problem if you tried to make a caravan by land for a good portion of lower Africa.
Like I said elsewhere, it was mainly about geography, not race.
The perfect coup should only be noticed once the faces on the money begin to change. // paraphrased from somewhere, maybe even myself.
Two thoughts.
One: Egypt is a cradle, not the cradle.
Two: With extensive price fixing and adjusted wage stagnation, a country can achieve a growing internal economy. If you toss in adaptions of modern tech, and modern education, you can achieve an internal major economic force in 20-30 years, without ever touching a dollar, franc,pound, yen, yuan, ruble or bitcoin.
Many economists and world powers are limited to western monopolistic economic worldviews. If you can address the weaknesses, coercing obedience will be less necessary for one or two generations, then unnecessary as you start colonizing a predesignated portion of the Moon and of orbit. (For that, you treat Earth orbit and Luna as variations of Antarctica.)
Full time American here.
Never heard BFE before.
Not surprising it’s pretty dated by now but I always heard it as “Bum-F**k Egypt” it was a pretty commonly used phrase when I was young (60’s and 70’s) I first heard it from my father when I was in grade school when he took a wrong turn and refused to get directions for an hour or more lol.
Same: Bum-F**k Egypt
Second full-time American here.
I have doubts about BFE being a common phrase by any definition, though I have occasionally heard the similar “butt/bum-fucking nowhere.”
Non-American here; I’ve heard the ‘Nowhere’ variant before but not the ‘Egypt’ one. Phrasing seems to vary as to whether it’s “BF-ing nowhere”, or “BF, Nowhere” in a parallel to “Miami, Florida” or similar. (Apologies to Miami, you were the first place that came to mind!)
Grew up in the lower midwest during the 80s and I’ve heard the phrase alot up until the mid 90s when it kinda just vanished
Yeah I only ever heard it as bum fuck nowhere. Daves version is certainly novel, I’ll give it that.
It was very common up through the early 2000s to describe most places I ended up for most of my life, what the coasties call “Flyover country” From what I gather, it doesnt actually mean the land of Egypt, but one of the flyspeck dots on the map in the south with that name.
Speaking as a “coasty”, I’ve only ever heard the term ‘flyover country’ used by people from the so-called flyover country complaining that coasties call them that.
I learned it as BFElsewhere.
I heard it as bjm fsck nowhere 80’s or so.
mind of like “poke and plumb town” – to describe the little towns you would travel through on your way from big city to big city in the mountains and plains etc. meaning “Poke your head around the corner, and you’ll be plumb out of town”
a lot of these little towns that might consist of school / church, general store, firehouse, maybe a restaurant called ‘eats’ and maybe an auto shops / gas station
I would like to point out that Douche isn’t the first one to succeed at this. He’s not even the MOST successful. Alexander conquered half the known world in a few short years. Rome did the same thing and held their new holdings using very similar tactics to Douche, and the British Empire would later control more than any other in history for longer than any other, using some of the most brutal tactics imaginable.
So. I wanna punch his face in and see him replaced. Fail, but only PERSONALLY.
You want him to fail to do… what? To make lives better for the starving and impoverished so that peopke im that region can finally comprte with the industrialized world? To reduce infant mortality among sub-Saharan African populations? To bring jobs, education, skill, infrastructure and hope to the region while also bringinh a sense of individual person freedoms for the citizenry, no longer under the heel of brutal tyrants?
Do you want him to fail at being sble to compete with other economicpowerhoises like China and the EU? Is it because you feel that economic competition is bad? Do you want him to fail because others have taken over more, in far more brutal ways than Deus, who has alwats tried to minimize death during his plans? Do you want him to fail because you felt people like Indinge or failed corrupt states like Mozambique should be the ones in control instead of a state which is organized, environmentally green, technologically advanced, which helps its people instead of hurts them?
Orrrrr…. do you want him to fail because you dont like that he is justifiable ‘smug’ and therefore anyone who benefits, no matter how many millions or billions that might include currently living in hardship, no matter how good the cause, should not benefit because of a personal dislike that you have for one person?
Because if it’s any if that, especially that last thing then I think priorities are definitely off for you.
The ‘only personally’ bit at the end makes it sound as though conan wants Deus to finish the job of uniting southern Africa under a stable common leadership (or at least set it well in hand with an able successor in place), and only then to be punched in the face and replaced. Let him achieve his laudable ends, and then let him pay for the less-than-laudable means used to do so.
I’d always heard of Butt Fuck Nowhere, though BFE does make a couple of Terry Pratchett jokes make more sense…
Miles & Miles of Bloody Uberwald.
Re: Where Deus is doing his stuff.
Is Dave B. taking a page from S.M. Stirling’s Draka series? That major power in the that alt history also comes out of the backwater of southern Africa.
So far I’m not sure Deus is as evil as the Draka.
I’m not familiar with that series, and while it’s possible that was an inspiration, I think Sub-Saharan Africa was chosen because it was the location where a strategy like Deus’ is possible to succeed, or at least look like it might eventually succeed, since that’s where most of the “third-world countries” are with tons of starving kids and such, it isn’t all that close to any of the major world powers who might try to stop it in the early stages, and there are loads of tinpot dictators changing the maps and borders every so often anyway. South America might have possibly worked, but AFAIK (not super big on geography) most of the countries there are larger and more established than in Sub-Saharan Africa, and if you go up to Central America where that might be less true (again, AFAIK, not super big on geography), you start reaching the point where the US might decide it’s our problem and “deal with it” before it gets too big for it’s britches.
Also, I don’t see Deus impaling people who disobey him. (Though I wouldn’t put it past his Alari allies. His other ally, Tom, seems oddly enough less likely to go for that.)
The classic quote is: “Metropolis is New York during the day, Gotham is New Your at night.”
Also, Star City is Seattle, I think Hub City is Chicago, or at least a better analogue even if not directly based on it, since Hub City is referenced as the one place MORE corrupt than Gotham.
A nuke blowing up some non-white people? Eh. That might create some media hubbub for the masses, but who really cares.
Unless, you know… They have some poor suppressed resources, I mean people we got to “liberate”.
But an economic power that doesn’t rely on de-facto slave labour like the US? That might want to compete for the resources that belong to us by birthright because we are the (white, rich) people of the god-created US of f**cking A? Axis of evil! We must invade! That’s why we put all that money into the military! (and so that our police troops can keep our slaves under control)
Any sort of nuke going off would immediately set off international attention.
Some idiot trying to fast track Nuclear Annihilation (a very real worry first world governments have) is an almost universal fear.
Finally broke down and read Tamer and Enhancer. Like the pop culture references and the self references. The Trek quotes and “The Queen of Salt” makes me think Sidney has read these. Ooh! Or in-universe she’s the author of your fanfic?
Economic subjugation of African nations is depressingly easy.
Look up the history of Rhodesia.
The TLDR is that a Brit named Cecil Rhodes wanted a country, so he made one and did horrible things to the people who lived there.
This was discussed a couple of days ago. The thing is… Deus has NOT done horrible things to the people who live in Galytn, and he isnt going to do horrible things to the people of Mozambique based on what he has said.
He took a people who were having horrible things done to them and made their lives better in every conceivable way possible. Theres nothing subjugating about it. And apparently is going to do the same for Mozambique.
Raised the GDP to one of the highest in sub-Saharan Africa within 10 years. Massively lowered infant mortality rates. Increased lifespan, built over 200 schools to increase literacy rates to all time highs. Innovations in medical care, education, skills, sewage, fresh water systems, trade, industry, entertainment technology… ended at least one war Galytn had been in with all its neighbors, probably soon to be ending all the other wars aftervwhat happened with Mozambique….
Deus has been the best thing to ever happen to Galytn, and looks like he will also be the best thing to happen to Africa in general. He doesnt eliminate their culture. He doesnt eliminate their borders. He just keeps spreading infrastructure in the attempt to turn impoverished hellholes into solid middle class cities. That are even focused on environmental sustainability, and inexpensive for a people coming out of extreme poverty.
No more torture squads. No rape gangs. No mass disappearances. No enslavement. No embezzling funds meant to help the people. No child soldier impressment. No starvation. Most of the money that Machina Industries gets from their portion of the GDP goes right back into infrastructure.
There’s no downside that can be seen. Just win-win scenarios.
No more horrific than the people in that nation had done to each other before he arrived, unfortunately.
No, I’m not a Caucasian apologist… but I do realize that African tribes were selling each other into slavery and killing each other long before Europeans got involved.
I mean, the Europeans were also killing and enslaving each other long before they got involved in Africa. Slavery is, unfortunately, a major part of human history, from basically all cultures (AFAIK) going all the way back to the beginning. Slavery was a thing going all the way back to Sumer, the oldest human civilization that we actually have any information about (there was some pottery found in China that dates back even further, but there doesn’t seem to be any connective line between that and the next earliest example which was well after Sumer, and AFAIK we didn’t find any writings to go with it, so personally I’m hesitant to call it the earliest human civilization if it died off before passing it’s knowledge/technology on). It was also a thing in ancient MesoAmerican civilizations, Egyptian civilization, Asian Civilizations, etc. Human civilization was built on slave labor, it is far from a thing only done by America/The West to only Africa, that’s just the most recent egregious example (AFAIK). Heck, slavery is still a thing, it just happens to be illegal in most of the world (or all of it, I’m not familiar with the laws everywhere, I’m not even familiar with all of the country NAMES everywhere) right now, but that doesn’t stop bad people from doing bad things.
> No, I’m not a Caucasian apologist
But you are.
You literally only brought that up just to try and defend Cecil Rhodes or at least down play how bad his actions were.
Most normal people just go “Yeah, what Rhodes did was pretty fucked up.” and that’s it. Instead of pulling a “Well, they were no angles.”
He’s… sorta being an apologist I agree (mainly because what he’s doing is minimizing something that another person did) … but I don’t think INTENTIONALLY being an apologist.
He’s putting context into play, since what he said in the last part of his last sentence is accurate, and it’s winding up looking like being an apologist despite a different goal in mind for his post.
PS – I literally know almost nothing about Cecil Rhodes outside of last comic strip’s forum threads so I have no idea on that subject. Just that some people (Duffen, Chaogomu) are saying he was a ‘white savior’ british colonialist who did bad things to the natives in what then became Rhodesia, while others Guesticules and a few others) are saying that there wasn’t even anyone who lived in the region other than nomadic travelers who would pass through it.
But Psychie and Christopher arent saying anything that’s untrue in their posts.
Whataboutism is a fallacy. “What? You’re saying did ? Well, whatabout all those other people who did , huh? Huh?!” It doesn’t make what did any less bad and it’s not relevant to the conversation. It should be called out as the nonsense it is.
While I agree that whataboutism is poor arguing strategy, and agree with it being a bad argument when done in the way you descibed, all i am saying is I dont think his intent is ‘being a caucasian apologist’ but rather to just put the entire historical period in context, which is different than whataboutism. Since the accusation is about Cecil Rhodes and his actions.
I dont know much anything about him, unlike Guesticules apparently (or Duffen) so I am looking at this from the perspective of gathering information first. Its not something of which I planned on doing independent research since I dont think I’d learn enough fast enough to make decent arguments.
Main things that I have gathered from here are:
1) Cecil Rhodes took over the area that became Rhodesia. Although I am not sure what people he took it over from.
2) Cecil Rhodes may have been a white supremacist, but I have no info on if thats true or anything he actually did to earn that reputation. But it was before the British completely abolished slavery from the british empire. So it is possible (and even somewhat more likely than not, given my lack of knowledge on him), especially based on the social and legal norms of that period in time.
3) The area was largely nomadic before Rhodes entered the area.
4) Slavery was rampant in sub-Saharan Africa, primarily because it was a major industry of several powerful African nations and tribes who did business selling slaves to the Arabs and then the Europeans.
I was actually trying to counter Christopher’s argument by pointing out a bunch of other examples of slavery that in no way diminish the one we’re talking about. I probably should have been more clear about that, huh. Like, just because X people enslaved members of X people, doesn’t make it less wrong when Y comes along and enslaves members of X people, too, just like the fact that Y was already enslaving members of Y before that, and Z also had slaves, and so did Q, etc. It was still bad that Y enslaved X, and all the other enslavements were also bad. Some systems of slaver were debatably less bad, in that they were required to be treated a certain way and often had the ability to eventually work their way to freedom, but it was still really bad that they were enslaving people to begin with, so even if they only get the minimum bad guy points possible for slavery, that’s still a lot of bad guy points.
Before Rhodes arrived, no one was living in that area, they were nomadic and that part of the kingdom was scrubland that the cattle didn’t bother with
Aresholes (and that’s the polite term) keep blaming Europeans for the African slavery, ignoring the fact that it was other Africans (including Arabs) who were capturing and selling them to the Europeans (selling those they didn’t eat)
Before the English showed up in Rhodesia, the natives were treated well, they were giving land and food, but the English put a stop to that and insisted they get paid in cash (which the husbands promptly went and spent at the local pub)
Also, look what happened after Mugabe took control (and yes, he took control because he was supposed to share power)
Also also: Rwanda (look it up, and tell me how the Europeans were involved in that)
The biggest reason I think Deus will succeed is he’s not really taken control he’s actually doing good except he is inserting his people to aid him in “advising” the new territories on how to improve themselves anyone else that’s tried total takeover has used force and fear not gifting the people with the very things they NEED instead of greedy followers to keep the masses afraid and helpless. I question his endgame plan though he clearly has one that no one’s figured out yet.
Did not know about BFE.
Playing war board games about WWII the phrase was:
Italian Unimportant Africa
or
British Unimportant Africa
or
French Unimportant Africa
as the situation required
Three guesses:
1- Order demon (owner of many worlds) is bankrolling it provided it increases order
2- Deus is making Alari ships or ship upgrades, and is getting paid in some metal aliens have easy access to
3- Deus got the guy that can move in the earth mantle and grab gold/etc on his team
Knowing Deus? Probably at least 2 out of 3.
I would say that all three are reasonable possibilities here.
4. Deus got his $300 billion contract with the USA.
5. Deus now has offworld contracts
Deus is selling (tiny bits of) alien tech to the Chinese. Or maybe he’s just promised to get some for them. After all, he’s literally the only one in the world (besides the US) that has access to Alari technology.
That might be unlikely since Deus is trying to COMPETE with the chinese in textiles. And The whole point of Operation Cha-Ching is to do business directly with the USA for military contracts without China as a middle man to benefit.
The term my parents used for BFE, bless their departed souls, was “Bumbleep, Nowheresville!”
LOL sounds like my departed mother she was always trying to censor herself… with I’d say 90% success lol
I always thought that Gotham was Newark or maybe Boston.
It’s odd in some ways Gotham reminds me of Indianapolis one of the movies had an actual circle rather than the square. even in the comic books they were always changing the city lay out to fit the plot.
Two things, I liked Deux’s comeback to Sidney’s retort about losing his “Membership card”. Secondly I noticed that in the last panel as Deux mentioned his “New source of Revenue” The name ‘CHINA’ on the name of Machina Industries sort of Jumped out at me and made me think. Hmmm.
Yeah, I noticed that too. I wonder how Max would react to THAT?
Please tell us where the word “CHINA” is to be found on the MI logo?
MA-CHINA
I can understand people not noticing the M since it’s reverse font color in the design of the sign.
But why are people ignoring the A, to make a tie-in to China, which Deus has said multiple times he’s competing against, not working with (Operation Cha-Ching bypassing China to do military contracts directly with the United States to the tune of $300 billion, and his talk about needing to build up Galytn in order to compete with China in textiles).
Or did I miss something and is China spelled ACHINA? The first A is silent? :)
Good boy! 10 marks! But we need to lose the hyphen, which I do understand you put there for clarity.
& @Pander: As I mentioned on Page 1 — it’s probably below the fold now — this is a “difficult” logo, Deus is trying to say too much with it. Ther M and the I are entangled, and that works well by itself as a corporate, but adding the letters just confuses the story. He would have done better to use slightly smaller font sizes offset from the actual logo. It is possible he sought “professional help” on the matter, but most of those would have said what I just said.
It IS typeface one/MACHINA/ typeface two/INDUSTRIES/
My sources are 1) professional logo artists, and 2) the Adobe PageMaker 6.5 Plus “Getting Started” manual, which I read from asshole to breakfast time at least once a year, since it contains two extremely valuable bits of information: “Be Bold” and “If you need to put something ‘out of place’, PUT IT WAAAAY OUT OF PLACE, don’t fiddle-faddle.”
:)
Only added the ‘-‘ to show where the CHINA came into it :)
I understand that. But I’m just saying the A and CHINA are both written in the same exact font size and color, unlike the M and the I.
So when I read it, I first saw ACHINA, and then saw the M. But some people like you apparently saw CHINA, then the MA, and that confuses me because the A doesn’t look anything like the M, font size/color-wise.
It’s a pattern-recognition thing. The brain recognises CHINA as a word but not ACHINA, so it grabs onto the thing it knows. Not helped by the top of the A being run into the top of the I of Industries, which makes it look like part of the ‘graphics’ rather than part of the ‘text’.
Future takeover attempts:
Deus (to target country’s leader): 1/20th your country’s current GDP in Galytyn stock, and I guarantee you get to stay in charge for 5 years before voluntarily stepping down and retiring to the paradise of your choice. Consider joining me as a form of life insurance.
Of course, the problem isn’t whether Deus will be a good tyrant or not. The real problem is what happens when he dies. History is full of examples where a leader arises who builds an empire, improves the lives of his subjects, and creates a competent bureaucracy to run everything, only to have everything go to hell when he dies because nobody can replace him. The rule that minions can be ambitious, competent, or loyal, chose any two, also applies to potential replacement leaders. It’s really hard to convince your underlings to accept a peaceful change of leadership when you yourself got there using a sword.
the real problem is his reaction to a lose lose situation, because those exist and they are pretty fucking hard to deal with
I think technically Gotham is in New Jersey, and Metropolis is in Delaware (but sometimes its on Manhattan Island), they’re across the Delaware Bay from each other. I think the Flash’s city that I always forget the name of is canonically in Missouri.
I’ve never heard of BFE, we had Timbuktoo, but nothing B and F. Then again you must understand, I live in the bible belt, on its lower edge and we are often culturally/socially and technologically a bit behind some areas. (I tried to find a thumb drive locally a LOT of years ago, they had them for sale of course online and in major cities but locally? The person looked at me like /I/ was asking for alien technology.
Also: https://maphub.net/Numbuh1Nerd/dcumap Not sure how accurate it is, but it’s quite similar to one I’ve seen in published works.
Yeah, except Timbuktu is a real place
Nah. Timbuktu is made up.
Like France. Or the Queen of England.
:)
BOOOOOOOOO! HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Whatever. Mastermind is a brilliant movie and I will fight you over that. :)
:>
Presume you meant this quote from Megamind? It is indeed a brilliant movie :D
Yes. I definitely meant that quote from Megamind.
I also love Roxanne’s look after Titan (Tighten) says that about the Queen of England.
She must be one of those weirdos who still believes in the Queen of England.
Right? I mean the Queen is clearly an unrealistic character – born a princess, gentle with animals, trained mechanic, military captain who helped fight the Nazis, international traveler and diplomat as a teenager, husband renounced his own kingdom for her, oversaw the deconstruction of the British Empire, skilled equestrienne, survived multiple assassination attempts, lived through the invention of both commercial radio and the internet, co-starred with James Bond, served as monarch for 7 decades, extremely wealthy, supports hundreds of charities, outlived Betty White…
Clearly she is an amalgamation of many historic characters, with a heavy dose of fantasy and wish fulfillment added to the myth for good measure. Future historians will shake their heads at how we ever believed it all.
“outlived Betty White…”
And that alone is reason enough to not believe this fanciful myth.
“Clearly she is an amalgamation of many historic characters, with a heavy dose of fantasy and wish fulfillment added to the myth for good measure. Future historians will shake their heads at how we ever believed it all.”
They will surely think most of us were fools. At least a few INTELLIGENT people like you and I have always recognized the truth.
the Queen of England is the oldest super we have
One of the entries on that map is: “Shiruta, Kahndaq. Home of Black Adam, Isis, and Osiris.” Took me a minute to realize that ‘Isis’ was referring to the goddess.
Most of Africa since the 1950’s and if you look at it’s history has been subject to regime changes by various countries going back since the 1800’s. The last one that I’m aware of was a CIA backed takeover of Egypt about three years ago.
How Do I know this? Well, most of the various agencies have a style of how they operate, and that one was a textbook CIA operation.
Deus is actually trying verry sucessfully so far is fairly tame in comparison to many of the takeovers that have happened in the past. Wait till he tries to mess with one of the countries that are controlled by the big banks, Then we will see how that go’s. Those SOB’s don’t play around.
This big man enjoys his tiny snacks.
It’s so he can feel like a giant (all to do with ego)
I am trying to think about who else besides Deus may be in the ‘Legion’ Sydney mentioned. I think his nearest megalomaniac competitor to try a global takeover may be the French Canadian villain Vladimir Poutine.
Or maybe Justin Truedough?
background on the expression BFE. It got started in Arizona, moved to California, and from California spread all over. when it was being used originally here in Arizona, and even in California, it varies specifically meant not just the middle of nowhere, but the middle of nowhere in the desert. You head out into the desert, you’re in BFE. You go north and you’re in the middle of nowhere, but in the woods, that’s not BFE.
Awesome! I did not know that. It’s been popular in Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, and Missouri at least up through the Early 2000s and likely the surrounding states.
One must remember that colonization of Africa was due to needs of ports to sail around Horn of Africa. Same for India as routes to other Asian ports. After that human greed took over in fights for local resources and trade monopoly in Europe. It maximize profits.
Slavery trade came later (other than local existant) and was already a cultural establishment in all of Asia and Africa already. Still extant there to this day, but excused by white guilt ridden soft minded folks in Europe and America’s.
Trade/Slavery is endemic profitable and cultural. Thus humans will find myriads of excuses to ignore world history and sources of trade while at same time berating white folks for having touched upon this briefly (historically) and allowing it because it’s someone else’s culture at same time. This doublethink is core in liberals.
Have we seen the colored cuff buttons on Deus’ suit before? Are they just decorative, or is he into ‘Bond tech gadgets’ for his attire?
Last time I seen them they were gold https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/comic/grrl-power-410-maximized-marketing/ but it’s hard to tell could be the Galytn’s flag colors?
Phrase I’d always heard was ‘Bug-F*** Egypt’. Sometimes another country, depending on the mood of whoever was saying it.
I personally prefer the Australian BFM Bum Fuck Nowhere, to the American one
This seems like a good time to suggest to everyone the excellent book
“How to Succeed in Evil”
The key is to skirt the line between into the lawful evil territory so that no one can legitimately stop you. Mostly you should make sound financial investments and not be an idiot.
Of course, Dues is not “Evil”……… More “Chaotic Neutral”. Sure he dabbles a bit on the shadier side of things, but he is careful to never get caught or involve too many innocents. (and most of the innocents he has indirectly involved are busy thanking him for his help in building a bright new future.)
BFE also refers to the part of Egypt as far away from the civilized portion as you can get. As in the source of the Nile. Also known as the state of Denial.
Badum dum. Try the Veal!
Now if you had written “sauce of the Nile” I could have graced your pun with a boo and a hiss.
But you didn’t, so I won’t.
As an American born and raised, I can’t say I have ever heard BFE and would never have guessed what it explicitly stood for, though the meaning is clear with context.
If you ever needed proof that being smart didn’t translate to being a good leader and wanted to see the perfect refutation to anyone who wants a monarchy; Read up on the life and times of European Monarchs
They were the most educated people of their time and in their society, period, do not pass go. They were raised from birth by the most skilled of tutors, had a court of well kept scholars and academics that would inform them on any issue.
And they were absolute fucking psychopaths.
Thank god they didn’t have nukes back then because I honestly don’t know if the world would have survived with them having that kind of power.
For all the education, training, and good breeding; it’s extremely evident that telling a group of people they are simply above everyone else due to the circumstance of their birth infects with the worst kind of brain-worms imaginable.
…and by breeding we meam INbreeding……
Knowing how to do something requires intelligence. Knowing what to do requires wisdom.
Yeah now a third destabilizing element, first two conflicting factions that could vie for control when their own superiors intervene, and now his exclusive control over one nation thanks to his own financial backing is clearly not enough so has to align financially with other interested parties who may have their own separate personal goals.
I live in the state of New York (Not the city) and I have never heard of BFE either.
We’ve used a similar acronym up here in Canada, BFN.
Butt-Fuck Nowhere.
I’d never heard of BFE up here in Canada either, but we do have a similar saying, BFN.
“Butt-Fuck Nowhere.”
(( Sorry for the double-post….didn’t show up when I posted it the first time ))
As far as I’m aware, DC comics creates new cities for their super-heroes to run around in, because….reasons? I dunno, I guess it gives them more creative license to not have to worry about actual city architecture & layout.
There is no direct analog as far as I’m aware for a DC-specific city to a real world city. They are more of a background intended to fit the theme of the local hero.
Superman’s city, Metropolis is large, modern, prosperous, clean, etc, etc. It fits with Superman’s image. On the other side of that coin, Batman’s city, Gotham is dark, gothic, foreboding, corrupt, etc, which fits with its brooding champion.
You could arguably make an argument for analogs of other cities, but I don’t think any city in North America fits with the dark & depressing feel of Gotham City.
As a related but unnecessary tidbit, DC has never directly specified which State Metropolis resides in, but most circumstantial evidence leads to believe it to be on the East Coast of Delaware. Gotham is located in New Jersey.
DC also has additional countries, relative distance and location between cities changes, and DC has claimed their EARTH is bigger than the real world so has all real world locations plus their own mixed in.
^^^ What he said. DC comics has created enough new locations within the United States alone that they felt it necessary to increase the actual size of the planet just to give room to slide those new locations in.
But then, I’ve studied the ‘structure’ of their “New 52” Universe….Yeeeeeesh….
I definitely preferred New Earth DC to New 52 DC or Rebirth DC.
One reason for creating new cities is so that you can show the mayor and police as corrupt and incompetent without criticizing actual people.
Still no mention of malaria. Remember this is a parasite, not an ordinary bacterium or virus. It might even qualify as an invasive species, if it encounters an appropriate environment. The Alari, for example, have to have reasonably similar DNA if they can eat human food. Ditto with demons. What if malaria is, for them, the equivalent of an STD?
And what about sleeping sickness and sickle cell anemia?
Yellow fever is caused by a virus. It can (eventually) be cured permanently, like smallpox. Sickle-cell anemia is caused by human DNA, but it is a response to malaria (people who have it tend to get malaria less intensely than others). Logically, first malaria should be cured, then we can deal with sickle-cell anemia. The worst news I’ve heard is that in some places in Africa, the incidence of malaria is actually more than 100 percent — some folks get it and then get cured, and then get it again.
“Sickle-cell anemia … is a response to malaria …”
You really DO need to research your story. Get some FACTS into it.
I did, and I heve more facts than you.
Maybe not in the direct and conscious way that the phrasing implies, but the prevalence of this genomic trait is driven by malaria.
If you inherit Sickle Cell from one parent, you get resistance against malaria and 50% odds of passing it on to your children. Inherit from both sides, you get a life-limiting condition and will pass SC to your children. In an area where the malaria risk is low, the trait is selected against: the benefit is irrelevant to those circumstances, while the penalty still applies. In an area with malaria endemic such as much of Africa, especially if medicinal treatments are lacking, it’s selected for: the benefit is very relevant, and it’s twice as likely as the penalty.
So long as you have the basic amino acids folded the right direction, you can eat anything. The main concern would be their equivalent of our vitamins. It would be bazar if they had anything like the weird double mitochondrial/nucleus DNA we have we picked up a few million years ago.
All this has been discussed in previous pages. My own thinking is that we cannot guarantee all the amino acids etc will be folded in the correct way, or even be similar.
Need to remember: allergies are protein incompatibilities.
We cannot rely on a belief that what happened on our Earth in a primordial muddy puddle will automatically happen on all planets in the Galaxy. It’s axiomatic that Murphy stands hidden behind every rock, ready to wield His Law. What happens if some slightly oily liquid floating on primordial puddle-water on a lonely planet by a distant star contains some extra atoms that render it near-solid at 37C? And loses its viscosity at 43C or 44C? For most Earth-humans that’s, ummm, unfortunate? Possibly for most Earth-life.
Of comfort, is that we are not about to find the answers any time soon, so we can discuss at leisure.
Early Superman cartoon, nary a mention of the name of the city (also no mention of Ma and Pa
KettleKent)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUFN1IjK4ww
Our local equivalent for BFE would be BWBF. Beyond West Bum-Fuck.
I know an old Aussie one was PtBS. Past the Black Stump.
If Deus has been building roads and hospitals and schools and laying power cables and internet, was he doing all these things by himself, or does he have a well-educated demonic workforce, too?
Well, seeing as how the “demonic workforce” has not yet been mentioned in canon; and also seeing as how such a workforce might demoralise his Galytn and Mozambiquan subjects, probably “No”.
Why do all Deus’ detractors think he’s an idiot? One of the most fascinating things about our great leaders (of any rank) is that — to a person — they never denigrated any of their… adversaries. I wonder why not? It wouldn’t possibly be anything to do with respect now, would it?
Machiavelli and Sun Tzu are required reading for a reason. Somebody told me what the reason is, but I never paid attention.
“Why do all Deus’ detractors think he’s an idiot?”
Usually because it’s a lot easier to dismiss a person if you strawman that person (ie, make them seem like they’re far dumber than they’ve been shown to ACTUALLY be, in order to make arguments against that person appear stronger).
I’ve gotten a much better practical grasp of the ad hominem fallacy (both sides) by watching Pander deconstruct various arguments here.