Grrl Power #603 – Schtooping with the frenemy
Deus is the kind of guy who would keep $600 million in a duffle bag somewhere in his office just for the gag. Well, he would if there weren’t a lot of better things you could do with that much money besides having it collect dust in a cupboard. There are gags, and then there’s just being a dummy.
If Deus has designs on “dating” Maxima, revealing that he’s “dating” one of her subordinates probably isn’t doing him any favors. But he is the sort of guy who likes a challenge.
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Really, Max, you shouldn’t jump to conclusions like that. Harem never said who she was dating, and there’s no reason to think a 19 year old bisexual wouldn’t be into Vale, now is there?
Harem did not state it categorically (there seems to be a lot of that going around), however the “I can date who I like!” is implying it strongly enough that Maxima is making a reasonable conversational assumption.
Let’s also remember that she is either 19 or 50 depending on how you count her power and extra bodies that also age.
>bisexual
I WAS NOT INFORMED OF THIS!
Remember back when Dazzler had her reveal to Sydney back in the conference room?
Pay close attention to everyone’s thoughtbubbles… most particularly how Harem reacts while Ariana is mind-chanting ‘not a lesbian not a lesbian not a lesbian’.
I must be short on sleep to have typed ‘Dazzler’ instead of Dabbler’.
common enough knowledge that it’s taken for granted these days. but, lest we forget…
And if there’s still any doubt, check this page.
Okay, that was a fail, apparently you use tags to make text look like a link without being clickable…never knew that.
https://www.grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1917
Huh. On that page Dabbler is saying “there’s no markings on the orbs” but they are shown with markings, unlike how they’re usually drawn. One of them says (I think): “Property of Gallagher”.
I’m not sure what to make of this — is it a hypothetical “this is stuff I would have expected but it isn’t there” or is it a reveal to the audience?
It is just a visual gag. As you say various hypothetical things Dabbler may have been expecting (or comedic versions of things she may have seen in the past, such as Faberge eggs). Dabbler has been around for over a hundred years, and has doubtless seen a bunch of exotic egg or orb shaped objects. Some of which could probably fly (without being hit by a bat or a platypus).
There is one interesting aspect though, which is that there are actually glyphs and sigils clearly marked on the orbs. Which Dabbler does not appear to be able to see, even with the aid of her technomagic.. There have been one or two other clues which point to this. Likewise that certain aspects of the orb’s other projections (the glyphs looking like they float above the orbs themselves) are not visible on camera (namely the level-up screen).
The most workable explanation being that we the audience get to see the orbs the same way that Sydney does. Which does not match what Dabbler or anybody else in the Grrlverse gets to see (as far as we can tell)
With the possible exception of Krona (who we know can see not just the screen but also the code it runs on).
But, those glyphs only appear to… ah, ‘appear’ when Sydney is actually holding/activating the orb. They are not present in the ‘rest state’ such as when Dabbler is examining them
*jaw flaps open, and falls to ground*
I had always only considered that they were too faint to see when the orbs are not up close. But you could be spot on. We can make out fairly fine details on the other orbs (such as the crackling lightning in the PPO and the gas clouds in several of them).
Whilst those are fairly distinctive features, that could be visible at longer ranges, than barely visible glyphs, we have seen orbs reasonably large (if not as big as in the close up I linked) yet I cannot recall a scene where the icons were visible, without Halo holding the orb in question.
Well observed!
Examine carefully panels 5 & 6 on this page.
Wow, Dave sure does have attention to detail and consistency.
Plus he has patience and a serene attitude. So many people have just taken the apparent contradiction (between Dabbler’s comment and the fact that we have often seen glyphs) as a continuity error. Yet he just carries on doing every detail of the art, even though there are subtleties that most (or at times all) people are not picking up on. Without saying a word.
He would make a great mystery slash murder slash slasher (:P) writer, unlike all the current hacks: he puts all the details in for the observant to pick up on, rather than hide everything until the end with deliberate false suspects and at the end confront one ‘suspect’ only to turn and accuse and arrest someone we had been lead to believe had nothing to do with it, someone who hadn’t even been a suspect
From what I’ve observed the glyphs are command keys. She has pressed some to expand her shield, and one to teleport. She just can’t read them but is memorizing which does which on each orb.
However it is possible no one but her can see them. Dabbler mentioned no orbitals were visible, and the fact is magic can’t detect them at all…kind of feel they are designed to counter magic specifically, and possibly also technology given machines can’t see their writings but can see them. (the skill tree was invisible to both the news cameras and Dabbler’s cybernetic eye, although her organic eye could see the skill tree).
The point made above though is that they are not even visible to Sydney, unless she is holding one in her hand. As Dabbler had not seen her doing that, at the point where she made the comment in question, they could either be visible to everyone or just Sydney.
Mind you if everyone can see them, then Dabbler is bound to spot those at some point. Likewise Pixel. Both of whom are meant to be studying the orbs.
Failing that though, the instant that they ask how Sydney how she activates the embiggener (as an example) they should spot the issue themselves.
I should clarify ‘clearly marked on the orbs’ as being when we see them in close up in other scenes.
I thought it said “property of Gallifrey”, like a certain madman’s box. Ehich would raise all kinds of interesting speculations.
Also her shirt.
I also seem to have called that Deus would have entirely reasonable explanations about Sciona being there. Man, I’m on a roll this month with predictions!
*brings out a tray of burgers, piled high like leaning towers of Pisa*
*follows up with a tray, piled high with a leaning tower of pizzas*
Party time!
….. I love you, Yorpie.
*blushes*
*knees go wobbly*
*tower of pizzas wibbles*
Incoming! Open wide!
“Leaning Tower” is actually a brand of store-bought frozen-pizzas over here, or, at least, they use to be, haven’t bought any in years (don’t have the freezer room for them like use to :( )
Just go bury a few of the bodies. That will free up lots of room!
;-)
You assume there would be any bodies left to bury… >_>
Not quite a win this time: he’s denying knowing who Sci-fright is entirely
He must know that Harem will tell Maxima that Sciona knew exactly where she had teleported and called Deus by name. That strongly suggests that they know each other.
So any pretense of not knowing Sciona is transparent.
He did not deny that. He just said she didn’t say who she was.
Hook him up to a lie detector – what he said was 100 percent the truth.
In no particular order, things Deus didn’t *actually* say:
“I don’t know where Sciona is.” (Max asked, he deflected, and later said he’d update her when he heard from Vale.)
“I don’t know what she wanted.” (He told Max she’d never said — which she didn’t, because they both knew what she was there for — and then when Max *told* him to guess what she wanted, he listed things that someone might show up looking for. He didn’t have to guess, of course, but *she told him to*. He had one of those Bugs Bunny “I must be dreaming — it *couldn’t* be *this* easy” moments.)
“I don’t know who Sciona is.” (He said she never formally introduced herself. Never said he didn’t know her.)
Pretty well done. Now: is Harem going to rat him out?
Indeed, one might say masterfully done.
I doubt it. Harem is clearly enjoying playing double agent, and does not want to ruin that. Or to interfere with their ‘non-exclusive Netlfix and chilling’.
Of course, if Deus’s suspicions are correct, then Harem will be doing a routine report, to Archon, as to what really happened, in her role as a triple agent. But she would not reveal that by openly ratting him out here. That will be conducted behind closed doors.
Possibly at this very moment, to General Faulk, Lucus and/or Zephan.
She’s almost certainly a quintuple agent, right?
Harem has the badges to prove it.
badges? she don’t need no steenking badges.
Yeah? What about (honey) badgers? o_O
So if Deus never lies, then he really must have a condition that makes him burst out in manic evil laughter for no apparent reason.
Also interesting on that page how much it bothers him when he loses his cool in front of Harem and Vale.
Yes, it’s called Villainous Hyenism.
Just as well he isn’t a female then, they have a faux-phallus and are not afraid to use it!!
Reading the comments, I have to ask…why is it *assumed* Deus is a Bad Guy? Is it because it’s such a cliché…rich white guy owns/runs a corporation is automatically evil? I’ve re-read the archives several times and while it’s definitely slanted to make you *think* he’s a Bad Guy…he hasn’t done *anything* truly bad or evil. Even breaking into the Council’s vault isn’t *evil*…unless you think Indiana Jones is evil, too. Is the Council a legal entity to the world at large? If not, how can a Council storage site be any more `private’ than a local dumpster? I mean, neither you nor I could *legally* complain if we stick our valuables off a buoy 15 miles offshore in international waters, and an enterprising diver happened to find them.
So, *why* do we assume Deus is a Bad Guy? Because he’s rich? Because he doesn’t roll over for government agents? How many of us would turn over everything just because a government agent asked…and how many would say, “Sure, soon as you serve me a warrant.”
Personally, I consider Deus a necessary check or balance to Archon. Supers or not, you should *not* have to bow and scrape just because the person happens to be a Government Agent. That’s kind of why we have laws and little things called `rights’.
So…somebody educate me: why is Deus assumed to be evil? What has he done that’s evil…or even illegal? Especially when we compare to, say…Archon, who staged a massive battle in public and caused buttloads of property damage just to make a `point’? Never mind being complicit in the mental/magic shenanigans the Council gets up to…
Just saying, Deus seems a lot more heroic than Archon in many ways…so why do we think he’s a Big Bad?
Deus is a genius, that intends to get what he wants without any regards to the rule of law of any sovereign nation that he can get away with breaking. Taking over an African country to uplift it into his own personal money making fiefdom, even it ends up being a net positive to the country isn’t a strictly “good” thing to do. Intelligent people tend to feel the end result justifies the means. Deus’s goals require him to gather & wield power. He rewards his allies and crushes his enemies underfoot and enjoys doing so. He’s heroic only in the Greek sense that Heros were heros not because they were moral paragons, but because they were smarter and/or stronger than the average person. For alignment Deus appears to be Chaotic neutral, does what he wants, when he wants the way he wants, but doesn’t go out of his way to cause or to enjoy pain and suffering of others. Don’t get his way or he will go around, over or if he can thru you to get his way. To those he helps he appears benevolent, to those under his foot it’s a different visage.
Now, see, I regard it differently, in that your arguments against Deus can also be used against Archon. They have a view of the world and super’s place in it, and use force to bring that about. If you’re on the team, great…if not, you better darn well tow the line. The sole difference being Archon is `legitimized’ by the U.N…and we all know what paragons of ethical behavior *they* are. Deus `took over’ the African country by strictly legal means, which in a sense helps (not guarantees) the future of the country will be based on the rule of law rather than whim.
I don’t see Deus’ *goal* being to gather and wield power…I see them as tools as he wields to further his cause (which we’re not completely aware of as yet).
None of this makes him a Bad Guy…just a man who takes action when he sees a need. Being better at business or willing to take a risk or make a profit or seize an opportunity…none of those qualities are bad.
But we suspect him of being a villain. Is that our own bias? I mean, Max basically kidnapped Sydney at the bank…you have to come with us, tell us all your secrets, blah blah blah…but Max and Archon are automatically Good?
Dave’s telling a hell of a story, for sure.
Deus is a combination of Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor.
Doom: He appears peaceful and perfect to those he rules over by having a shadow too deep and dark for people to comprehend. He truly believes he is the is the only source of World Peace, is persuasive enough to convince a Green Lantern deity, and ruthless to those who oppose him while maintaining his perfect ambassador and Kingly rights and laws.
Lex, to quote you: Superman has a view of the world and super’s place in it, and uses force to bring that about. If you’re on the team, great…if not, you better darn well tow the line. The sole difference being The Justice League is `legitimized’ by the U.N…and we all know what paragons of ethical behavior *they* are. … I see [his gathered power] as tools as he wields to further his cause. None of this makes him a Bad Guy…just a man who takes action when he sees a [weakness in humanity’s dependence on supers]. Being better at business or willing to take a risk or make a profit or seize an opportunity…none of those qualities are bad. But we suspect him of being a villain. Is that our own bias?
That kind of ties in to my theory on Vale’s motivation: that she actually wants to play the hero, but the rules imposed by Archon et al. ruin the dream. And she probably can’t join anyway because of, er, “background check” reasons. What Deus has to offer is a place outside the normal jurisdictions where she can do that.
-The only times she appears rearing to fight is against obvious villain Sciona. It looks like she’s smirking at the prospect here, and jumps at the chance more recently. Her response to being interrupted is “kind of in the middle of something here”, actually a little snarky. However, in the Africa scene, not only does she not fight, she looks like she’s rolling her eyes, embarrassed to even be there.
-She gets annoyed whenever Deus plays up villain tropes. It probably makes her want to beat the crap out of him, but she knows that would be counterproductive. I wouldn’t be surprised if she put that scar there in the first place.
-That cold glare at Sydney? Probably envy mixed with resentment over what Archon stands for.
Yeah, just theories, but I like that better than the recent “eldritch/demonic contract” theories.
would not be surprised. Seen that motivation before. Want to be the hero, but finds themselves in a setting where that’s easier said than done.
Also, can I point you to his mission statement: grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2032
In case you missed it: To crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
Think about it though. That is what happens in wartime. Regardless of whether you consider yourself the good guys or the bad guys. Even in business takeovers and other civilian matters, if a corporation makes enemies, it seeks to drive them out of business and have any criminals sent to jail. With appropriate tears being shed by their families, in the process.
Deus is just honest about these things. He heroically protects his own people from their enemies. But he does not look the other way from the consequences. Rather, in celebrating the prospect, he is actually providing a good social service. He is giving clear warning not to mess with Machina Industries. Deal honestly and fairly and you are OK. Lie, cheat or steal and Deus will do everything he can to ruin you!
Other companies just put up piddly little notices like ‘we will prosecute anyone who …” (which is fighting crime, especially given court costs, so is a good thing). Deus just does it with style! Fighting crime with style is what heroes do.
There’s honesty, then there’s brash. Wording it the way he did makes it bad PR. Also, if he is just the owner of an Enterprise, what branch covers “hear the lamentation of their women”?
Also, that is a quote from Conan the Barbarian, but he was paraphrasing a Mongol Emperor’s speech. Not exactly the best role model for your ‘honest’ company to emulate.
Finally, real heroes only sacrifice themselves. They deeply regret taking the lives of their enemies, and wouldn’t think of trading even a fellow warrior’s life for the mission. By making that the company motto, he is showing a lack of humanity and respect for all life. He doesn’t care for his enemies, and delights in their plight. He also takes the focus away from the good he does to his own people and redirects our focus to the blight he’s caused during his efforts.
If he was a good guy, he could have re-quoted it “To defeat our enemies, see them driven back, and to hear the praise of our women.” Same action, different implication on both the severity of the opponent’s losses and where they receive their pride (through what’s preserved rather than what was lost).
Well argued.
None the less I shall still put forward the hero argument, using the less shiny examples such as Mad Max, Dirty Harry and their ilk. They are heroes, fighting for a good cause, but not trying to look like a walking public relations poster.
Mad Max felt that justice was served by handcuffing his enemy to a car, setting it on fire, but then giving him a hacksaw. Allowing him the option of sawing off his own hand (not having time to cut the handcuffs).
Whilst Max walked away, listening to him scream.
The guy had it coming.
> Mad Max, Dirty Harry and their ilk. They are heroes,
Technically they are antiheroes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
Yea, I was avoiding the term. With anti-paladins or anti-Christ being evil, anti-heroes sounds like the opposite of heroes.
But it is a good solid term, with long historical roots, so is appropriate to use that.
Anti-heroes are typically the ‘good guys’ who don’t let the ‘rules’ handcuff them to a burning car prevent them from dealing out justice (oh, and it was the foot the bad guy from “Mad Max” was handcuffed by)
Extreme acts performed in the name of vengeance are spawned by emotional pain which has grown so great it distorts a person’s normal way of thinking and whatever ethics and morals normally restrain them.
So far, Machina has not betrayed any trauma that might explain his extreme acts, only calculation and determination.
Interesting… How would you rate Cale’anon of Looking For Group? Would you say he is a hero, or something else?
Totally ‘something else’ :P
Deus is written to be a suspicious character. You never know what he will do next. He is certanly capable of doing very bad or very good things wich adds a element of uncertanty to the story. He is mr X in more ways than one.
Archon were never written as a paragon of virtue. Their agenda is controll of potentialy dangerous superpowers, not representing a moral ideal. They, especialy Maxima, were written to be the lawfull neutral enviroment where it would be fun to introduce the chaotic good Halo.
Have we ever seen an explanation as to the nature of “ARC-DARK”? Because that sounded plenty ominous when X mentioned it.
No. But the analogy with the real agencies is clear enough. Arc-Light corresponds with the FBI. Whilst Arc-Dark with the CIA.
Although it clearly has to be more flexible than just that, as Archon has to also cope with magic and aliens. But we see that Arc-Light are the ones who have been assigned to deal with aliens. Just like Fox and Mulder in the X-files. Likewise they are also dealing with magic (their head is a mage and also a faction leader in the Twilight Council).
Likewise Arc-Light serves as the forensics department for Archon. Something the FBI normally do mind, but usually only for their own investigations, rather than handling the police forensics too.
However there is also clearly the need for the kinds of work that the CIA do, but versus supers. Spying on foreign powers super programs. Disrupting those of hostile nations. Spotting if individuals are attempting to turn a regime’s super capability against the United States, or its allies. And, where, appropriate, killing them.
These are things that (for the real world analogies) we expect our spies to do quietly and unseen, on our behalf. Even James Bond is ‘licensed to kill’, and does get assassination missions, in recognition of this. Not forgetting that the author was a naval intelligence officer. Assassination is a tool that the military will use in wartime. Whereas spies do that to try and prevent a war.
Possibly the author might have different intentions. But black ops does seem likely.
Yeah, Arc-Light is the Overt Operations, Arc-Dark is the Covert, and Arc-SWAT is the ‘day-to-day’ police force
at least there isn’t an arc-narc…yet
Drugs or Informants? o_O
The only thing Archon staged, was the ‘bank robbery’, and Maxi was categorically not informed of it before hand (and no one anticipated Sydney being there)
The Council doesn’t have to be a world-recognized entity, they are recognized by the entities that count: the Governments of the world and their enforcement agencies
I think this setting isn’t meant to be black and white superheroics. Its not *Superman vs Darkseid* or even real world styled good vs evil of *X-men vs Friends of Humanity*.
Its more a world where someone who grew up with those concepts Halo is finding her place in a more morally ambigious reality, we were introduced to shades of grey at first with government regulations and business ties, and what are your rights and secrecies. Then into a few shades of blue and orange that stretch all that with the council and the fact the government *or at least some parts there in* are for their own ends forced to be complicit for the sake of peace in a *you scratch my back I scratch yours* and not do anything too harsh that they’d cross fire with each other (council polices its own, so long as they don’t become public threats they keep the relationship mutually beneficial) naturally this creates as we’ve had discussions on previous pages so many legal issues and gymnastics to justify that the blue-orange morality has to come into play with non-human entities and aliens involved.
Halo herself isn’t some paragon of justice, knows comics can’t be 100% accurate, but at the same time she is a tad closer to that mindset and finding herself thrown deeper down the rabbit hole only to find the rabbit bedding with snakes and scorpions to defend against the badgers and moles.
Jarlaxle [R. A. Salvatore, various] in a suit without the (as far as we know) family issues.
Deus is like the opposite of Doctor Doom.
Doom wants to be seen as an honorable man and a wise and just ruler, but when that gets in the way of his other goals, he throws his honor away like a cheap suit and then sweeps it under the rug.
Deus wants to be seen as a comic book supervillain, but so far hasn’t actually done anything truly worthy of the laugh and the lightning.
To pick up on a point that you implied, but did not state explicitly, Deus is honourable. Whilst we have not yet seen how he reacts when things go wrong for him, we have seen him in challenging circumstances.
Even with a super villain threatening him, and trashing his expensive office, he was still getting Vale to try and honour the deal he had offered prior to the vandalism. Despite having a good pretext for stomping hr butt.
Likewise he freely offered Maxima back her geode, despite being under no legal obligation to do so. And that is the item which created the most powerful super on the planet. Even though previous studies have not cracked it, it still has the potential to act as the Rosetta stone, with some future breakthrough. So is one of the most scientifically valuable items on the planet!
Which he could have just held on to in secret (but with legal ownership), but he instead chose to let Maxima know, as any decent person would. People can put any spin they want to on that, but he was doing the honourable thing there. And much of behaving honourably is for the selfish purpose of currying favour and building up your reputation. Even in people who wish to portray themselves as wearing the white hats.
Deus just likes to wear black ones.
No, he did not “let Maxima know, as any decent person would.” He blatantly had it out on display waiting for her to notice it, as any smug douche with control issues would
If she hadn’t spotted it, he would not have brought it to her attention, he would have simply sent it back down to the lab-guys until some other time he could use it to ‘get his jollies off’
He only offered it back to her (which didn’t belong to her in the first place, so she had no legal ownership anyway) knowing she would turn it down
The ‘honourable’ thing would have been to tell her months ago when he managed to track it down, not have it sitting around his office as a trophy. Butt again, ‘honour’ has nothing to do with this matter as Maxi is not the owner of the geode, in fact, it could be argued she broke museum property as she ‘opened’ it after hours (just to point out, not museum hours, butt the ‘geode opening’ hours, as that display was presently closed)
Deus likes to tease. That is just a quirk and does not impact on his honour. He carefully positioned it in a spot where she could not help but spot it. Especially knowing him well enough that anything he displays would be of significance. So Maxima would not mistake it for a common geode.
I do agree that he would have been more honourable revealing it to her earlier. But equally he had no intentions of going to the trouble of finding it and legally acquiring it, without conducting the tests he had in mind.
Advising Maxima at a time when he would need to refuse any demand for it, would be within his legal right, but would be distressing for her. So it would have been an unkindness to subject her to that. Which would be little more than taunting her.
So he is not altruistic, in finding the geode purely with the intentions of giving it to Maxima. However I disagree that he knew Maxima would turn it down. At most he may have predicted that, but there is no way to know for sure. So he was taking a gamble. But one which, as a reputable business man, I do not think he would have reneged on.
And I would be surprised if he did not honour the offer, if she asked for it right now.
What about raiding the Reliquary?
Stopping the artefacts from falling into the hands of Sciona is good.
What he does with them afterwards, now that is another matter.
He could have stopped Sci-fright getting her hands on them by informing the legitimate owners! What he did was take the law into his own hands, which is vigilantism, and against the law in every damn country, or have you forgotten Archons Charter?
As a point… While many of the artifacts in the Black Reliquary are very powerful, and even dangerous, the fact that Deus took them does not mean its bad. Honorable does not require you to be law abiding either, it just means that for that person, they will always follow their “rules”.
The legitimate owners were already on their way. They arrived after Sciona left.
Sciona showed how she could easily chop down the supporting pillars, to get the artefacts to fall out. Had Deus not arrived the minute that he did Sciona and all of her team would have been tooled up to the eyebrows with artefacts!
We have seen how insanely murderous Sciona is, and Deus clearly knows a lot about her, so it is justifiable to fear that Sciona would make use of these items she is trying to steal. Every country in the world has laws allowing acts of self defence. Had Sciona gained even one item capable of destroying the world she would pose a clear and present danger, to everybody in the world, including Deus.
Meaning that his acts were not vigilante attacks. Rather he was acting lawfully, and morally, in self-defence.
And at no time, prior, during or since, has Deus informed the legitimate owners of what was about to, was happening, had happened, or what happened to 90% of their lost items
Both the ‘chopping down the supporting pillars’ and ‘insanely murderous’ happened after Deus showed up
Please, show me Deus’ dully appointed Law Enforcement badge! You can’t? He doesn’t have one? THEN HE’S ACTING AS A VIGILANTE!!!!
You can not put yourself, deliberately, in the way of a criminal and then plead ‘self defense’, what you did was provocation and entrapment (or is it baitment? as in ‘you baited them into attacking you’)
Regarding the first paragraph, that is true. However bear in mind the issue being debated in this thread. Namely his honour as a business man. Keeping trade secrets is a norm in his line of work.
For instance he may be constructing a facility that will store the dangerous items far more securely than the Council did. Perhaps with the intention of charging the Council and/or other interested parties, such as Archon and various world governments, to keep them safe.
This, of course, would be compromised if the Council were to learn that he has the items, prior to the facility being completed. Deus must know that Sciona got her information from traitors in the Council, but may not be aware of who they all are. So informing the Council would put the world in peril!
Not talking about his anything concerning being a business man
Someone accused me of jumping to assumptions about his actions (or motive or whatever), butt was only going by what we have actually seen, not speculating on something we have zero knowledge about
Well what we have seen is Deus preventing dangerous items from falling into the hands of an evil individual.
Plus when you complain that he has not informed the legitimate owners, have you considered that he may have moral qualms about telling a group of vampires, werewolves and other monsters, where they can recover their apocalypse-causing devices?
Likewise a government organisation who is co-operating with those monsters, and concealing their presence, and the crimes they commit, from the general public.
You mean, the ‘alleged’ apocalypse-causing devices they had locked away? Those devices? It’s not like they had them out on display to show off to anyone who happened to wander by (or so he can ‘rub one out’ over)
Actually there is no reason why you cannot do that. Provided you are in a place where you are entitled to be (in this case an unmanned cave in international waters counts). And provided you have a legitimate reason for whatever you happen to be doing. In this case preventing dangerous items from being stolen by a pirate.
Don’t forget that vigilantism is not a crime on the statute books. All Archon have done is indicated that they will take a zero tolerance approach to any crimes committed by people, whilst engaged in activities which can be characterised as vigilantism.
Sneak in to a bank, out of hours, to see if villains are robbing it? Trespass.* See some villains robbing a shop, and stop them. Fine. Rough them up to find out who their boss is and where their hide out is? False arrest, illegal imprisonment, assault and battery.
Learn that there is a robbery in progress, where items which could destroy the world, are being stolen, and travelling there to prevent that. Legal.** Especially as Deus managed to do it in such a way that he did not assault the perpetrator (using the American jargon he did not threaten Sciona and her crew, other than to indicate that his team would defend themselves if need be).
Nor did Deus do anything else illegal.
Once we see what he does with the items though, and whether he files a marine salvage claim, for instance, then we will be able to judge his actions.
* Incidentally you can’t trespass in international waters, in an unmanned area.
** Not forgetting that I have shown that had Deus just informed others they would not have been able to respond in time. Whereas Deus was in a position where he could.
It may have been an ‘unmanned’ cave, it may even have been left for who knows how long, butt it was not abandoned nor ignored, and Deus was not entitled to be there
Again, show me Deus legal status as an enforcer for US or International Law. A civilian attempting to enforce the law is guilty of impersonating a law enforcement officer, which is illegal
You are assuming that neither the Council nor Archon could have responded in time, forgetting just how quickly Maxi and co did arrive there, and that was when they were simply concerned about the alarm not working. Deus was in a position to respond because had days to prepare (or did you think he just happened to have a conveyor belt of bamboo plants lying around not doing anything other than being bamboo?)
Nobody had been there for twenty years. All it actually requires though, under maritime law, is for nobody to be there at the time in question. And even that is being generous, in granting it the status of being a stationary vessel.
An unpopulated island (which is the next closest thing that the vault might be classed as, and arguably more relevant), in international waters, has absolutely no protection. The stuff you find lying around there is yours to take!
Neither of which though has any international law preventing you entering. To the contrary international laws allow that you board a vessel believed to be abandoned. It is necessary to see if there is anybody in need of assistance.
There is absolutely no requirement to be a law enforcement officer under those circumstances. Nor has Deus claimed to be one, nor have I stated that he is.
Regarding the bamboo you are the one who has pointed out that Deus has Opal in his employ. They could have gone anywhere in the world to pick that up. Be that Deus’s greenhouse, his local garden centre or a random jungle in south-east Asia.
Max and co took hours to get down there, if I remember correctly. I think Sydney made some comment that implied such. But even if she did not there is a limit to the speed that you can travel at underwater, without causing deadly shock waves. And they had to travel a mile down (on top of their travel time to get out to international waters).
Finally there was no legal requirement to tell Archon anything. They have not made a public announcement that Sciona is a wanted criminal. Plus boarding an abandoned vessel (or stepping onto an island) in international waters does not require informing a national police unit.
It took them hours because they didn’t know they had to rush
Again, leaving a security robot slash golem thing to guard the facility is not abandoning it!!!!!
Also again, Deus knows damn well who owns the place, so please, stop pulling that crap, you are better than this
As I have explained multiple times robots do not change the legal status of something. Our laws do not take that into account. It will take years of wrangling to get them updated for ‘self-driving cars’. Its presence is irrelevant for laws as written. Human present = manned. No human present = abandoned.
Morally I agree with you mind. But if you wish to claim that Deus is a thief you must prove that on legal grounds.
And you are the one who insists that we only use what we have seen in the comic. At no point has it stated that Deus knows who owns the artefacts. He knows about the items, and how they are protected. From which we can speculate about other things. But we do not know them.
Plus, in legal terms, it would be necessary to prove that he knew these things.
Finally, even if he knew everything we have seen in the comic, the legal ownership of the items would still be disputable. Where did the Twilight Council obtain these items? Did they acquire them legally? Would an American court recognise their claim?
As such Deus could perfectly legitimately say “I do not know who the owners of these items are.” Going by the kind of responses he gave to Maxima, he may well say “I am however making effort to discover that.”. Which would keep him in good stead legally speaking.
Not in this case he didn’t. Deus went to lengths to intimidate Sciona enough that she did not attack him. Even going to the extent of conceding that he would not oppose her or her team from taking their preferred items. Which is an action designed unequivocally to de-escalate the situation, in order to avoid provoking a confrontation.
Bearing in mind that Vale has demonstrated that she would have been capable of defeating Sciona. But Deus was acting as a responsible civilian in avoiding risking death or injury to himself, his employees and even to the criminals.
No, he is smug arsehole who knows how to use words to get someone to take a swing at him just to shut his smug mouth
At that time, Vale had not demonstrated anything other than how to be quiet and look scary
He can. But he did not. Demonstrably. Sciona left without attacking Deus or his employees. Her insanity in trying to kill her own henchman is on Sciona’s conscience.
Regarding your last, my apologies, I did not express my intent clearly. I had meant to say “subsequently”, as in we have seen Vale kicking Sciona’s butt out the window.
Which just proves that Sci-fright is smarter than she looks: he baited her to take a swing, butt she didn’t (Sci-fright is actually waayyy smarter than me)
There is another angle here. Not just where, when, and who is in possession.
But rather that at least some of the artifacts may not fall under the premise of (legitimate owner),
as in those who put them in the vault may not have done so legally, some may in fact be themselves stolen property *from private owners, temples, museums, ect…*
and in the worst case, unlawful imprisonment if the artifact(s) in question are themselves sapient beings or the containment vessels of sapient beings.
Thank you, Rhuen, for making a point I was going to present. It is highly doubtful the Council obtained *all* of those artifacts by legitimate means. I doubt many were created by the Council, or bought via a legitimate transaction. Raiding old temples? Same thing Deus did. Theft or intimidation to get the (former) owners to cough them up? Even worse? The little we’re told about the vault and its contents lead one to believe the Council operated on the premise that the end (getting the artifacts) justified the means.
Not a good argument…because who decided the Council was the authority best equipped to handle these artifacts? Max didn’t seem too pleased to find out about the vault…
Ipso facto, Deus is *much* better suited to the protection of these items, since the Council is obviously not equal to the job.
And Yorp, you argued my points much more effectively than I probably would have. Those countering your position seemed of the belief that only The Government was qualified to do…well, anything. Deus *not* being a part of The Government argues in favor of his being far more heroic than Archon, but I’ve always been more Team Cap than Team Tony.
Thus far, I think my original question answered: Deus is a Bad Guy because he’s not a member of The Government. I guess Jesus, Buddha, and George Washington were all Bad Guys, too. Curse my shattered illusions!
*wags tail contentedly*
He killed that African king — or, rather, had his minions kill them while Deus stood there watching.
Deus is a capitalist businessman. They view that more as a hobby than an ethical decision. ;-)
He’s been raising too many of the classic flags — and even though Indinge of Galytn was a complete monster, Machina still went in with a death squad, which included the powerhouse which is Cthillia. Maybe assassination was not his A-plan, but he had it on speed dial.
His manipulative behaviour and raid of the Reliquary are also bad signs.
If it turns out Machina is not a bad guy, yay. But he makes trusting him look … bad for business.
I was with you up until the last sentence. Which I have to disagree on.
Deus makes his terms plain up front. He sees through any threats. But he also honours any commitments.
Deus explicitly mentioned his assassination squad, to make clear the choice the dictator was making. Although the guy underestimated just how capable they were and how imminent the threat was.
Whereas in the Vault Deus did not threaten Sciona, or her allies, other than to indicate that his team were more than capable of defending themselves. Yes he was taunting Sciona as well, but with the intention of throwing her off her game. The fact that she chose to shove one of her own minion’s heads into a death field, was down to her, not him!
More importantly, from a business point of view, he offered to allow Sciona and her force to keep the pick of the items they most desired. No qualifiers, such as “provided we don’t get to them first” or “if you pay us for the privilage”.
And to confirm that he does indeed have the reputation there was someone else present in both scenes. The assassin. She saw the offers Deus made. We know the threat was fulfilled. But he also made a promise to the dictator’s son. Namely “to make him the richest man in Africa”. I can’t recall if we saw whether that had been fulfilled.
But what we do see is the assassin being offered a big bonus to help Deus loot the vault. If she knew that Deus had reneged on that previous business deal, would Scthillia have accepted the risks (dealing with an expanding death field, and the possibility of pissing Sciona off, should she find out), knowing that he does not keep his bargains?
Yet she did not turn him down. She accepted the offer with the confidence of someone who is dealing with a person who has a solid reputation. Africa has a number of very rich people. Mostly corrupt politicians, who have siphoned billions off into their offshore accounts. Even the richest people in the world would be daunted by giving away those kinds of sums.
If Deus did honour his deal, with the crown prince (as seems likely), he has paid a vast sum, for his reputation!
Because he robs Vaults and spies on military organizations
Note that it’s almost certain that he really DOES have deed to a property with an alien temple under it….
Well, given that Deus always tells the literal truth (even if he misses bits out), we must pay attention to his qualifier:
If Deus is aware that he has such a deed, then he does not consider himself to be a part of mankind!
or its saying man as in the species as a whole knows nothing but certain people might
This plays into my headcanon that Deus is Prometheus.
Nicely spotted.
And the deed could be in his possession because the aliens built the temple dedicated to him!
Or even he was the alien who built the temple and he was reclaiming it from another group of aliens (the gods) who stole it.
Or he could be a Vandal Savage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandal_Savage like being.
Huh, although myth wise Epimetheus would work better, but metaphor wise Prometheus works better.
Nah, Prometheus is the future while Epimethius is the past….. of those 2 he fits Prometheus better.
I think of Epimetheus as he married Pandora who then unleashed the evils on the world (depending on which version of the myth you go by, his involvement varies), yet he wasn’t punished for his part in it, and despite all the calamity got out ahead *relatively*.
Prometheus outsmarted Zeus on two occasions, the first mankind was punished (in a way that feels contradictory to the second one being the more famous story) and in the second he was punished.
I compare Deus to Epimetheus in the sense he is getting his cake and eating it to.
So humanity is descended from two titans (as well as god-created humans). And their children pulled a Noah.
more or less, Greek myth and its history is a fascinating avenue; especially as it is one of the very few mythologies we have a large library through its history to pull from *unlike most mythological systems which have a bad habit of actively trying to erase previous versions*, Greek myths combined but kept enough of the older stories around to determine which came from which. Such as how the myths about the pre-hellinistic Helios were merged with Apollo (the Olympians vs Titans is essentially a metaphor for the new vs old religions of the region).
I have a metapaw?.
Where else did he awaken Vale from her ageless sleep of endless dreaming?
Craigslist.
+1
Thanks. ^_^
My theory is that Sciona did in fact accept Deus’s offer from last page. The fight served as a way to get her away from Harem (not sure if he provoked her with the intention of starting it or not)
This way Deus can at least appear to be on the up and up while playing both sides.
Maybe, but getting away from an interested Harem is pretty difficult. They would have to get out of her line(s) of sight and hide really fast. Sciona can teleport and Vale is known to be stealthy, but still, not easy.
Highly plausible.
Sounds like a brilliant move on Deus’s part. I am not surprised.
*sighs*
It really stands out when you have been having tea with your evil twin. Do remember that as a good upright lawyer you are not meant to encourage your client to help wanted criminals to escape the police!
Even if … ahem … Sciona may not be officially listed in any public documents as being a person wanted by the police. OK OK, maybe he is still within legal bounds.
But the cheerleader outfit is still overdoing things a bit!
Not when the skirt is that short…
I have always had a deep love for intelligent characters like Deus. In most media. AKA, the magnificent bastard who is not actually bad.
Disney’s Gargoyle’s David Xanatos (second season).
Deep Space 9’s Quark.
Dilbert’s Dogbert.
2012’s Carl Anheuser (the ONLY good thing about that crapfest of a movie).
Rick and Morty’s ‘evil Morty’
Justice League’s Amanda Waller
Marvel’s Nick Fury
The Matrix’s The Merovingian
Shawshank Redemption’s Andy Dufresne
SOMETIMES Superman’s Lex Luthor. When he’s like the JLU’s Lex Luthor, not the comic book.
And yes, I know that Lex Luthor stands out as being an actual villain. But he does have a point about Superman, if it wasn’t for his huge ego and jealousy. Superman IS a dangerous thing for the planet, because people get dependent on him instead of being responsible for themselves (which is OCCASIONALLY how Luthor is written – which is when I like him).
You might enjoy “The Metropolitan Man” by alexanderwales. Luthor is the protagonist and takes his beliefs to the logical end.
I’ll check it out.
Heh… you want smart, bad, but not evil? …… Bun Bun from sluggy freelance. (beware, its like 17 years worth of comics now)
the comic had its 20th anniversary last year, and its daily for the majority of its run.
and some would argue that Bun Bun is in fact evil, just chaotic evil.
I always did like David Xanatos. Although in a Megacorp showdown between Deus and David, I think Deus would be particularly displeased with how David handles things.
I always got the impression that David Xanatos was actually a functional psychopath. He’s charming, but also emotionally detached at very odd times and ways. Could be an artifact of being a Disney Villian, but to me it holds throughout the show run. “Eye of the Beholder” is a stand out example, testing the Eye of Odin on Fox without her knowledge of what it was.
It would be interesting to see a David Xanaros vs Deus X corporate Deathbattle. Machina Industries vs Xanatos Enterprises.
I dunno. I got the impression that Xanatos grew as a person throughout the series. He started out callous, but he gradually started to develop genuine feelings for the people around him, especially after he and Fox had their son. There’s no reality check like holding your future in your arms, I guess.
A ‘functional psychopath’ is a ‘sociopath’
Might I recommend the Death Note Manga? It’s fairly popular, you’ve probably heard of it, but I know some of the comic community ignores the anime/manga community (I don’t recommend any of the live action adaptations though, it’s almost as bad as comparing golden age movie joker to Keith Ledger Joker). All the main antagonists & protagonists are very intelligent. (And depending on your interpretation, the protagonist is the villain and the antagonist is the hero, interestingly). In fact, even the ‘dumb’ characters are smart, such as a ‘minion’ who absues the ‘I’m an idiot’ card to escape notice, and a chief of police who honestly is decent at his job but just out of his depth with the current conflict.
But is Harem really on the up-and-up?
Harems personality type is like what many immortal characters end up getting. They get INCREDIBLY bored because they have done everything already, and are willing to do a lot more things just for the experiances – even things that are considered evil or odd, or wrong in some way.
The thing(s?) SmugD stole from Sci-fright were probably something she needed either for one of her nasty Anti-Council plans or simply something personal, and the reason he showed up ‘late’ to the Reliquary-robbery was because he stopped off at one of her lairs first
I say nay nay on the allegation that Deus stole anything from Sciona. He stole nothing… from Sciona.
What scurilous lies! Libel I say! LIBEL! Well… if Deus were a real person.
How I wish Deus was a real person….. siiiigh.
He stole something, and he didn’t deny it (at least not to Sci-fright), and it makes logical sense that he stole it from her than she leaving it behind in the Reliquary
If Sciona had not yet taken it from the Black Reliquary then Deus cannot be classified as stealing it from her. It was not in her possession. So at the most he would be stealing it from the Twilight Council.
Plus we have not seen Deus demonstrating any pick pocketing techniques. So unless she is upset about him nicking her vault-cutting machine, it is unlikely that Deus stole anything off Sciona directly.
However I can see one thing which would satisfy your specified criteria. And it is a doozy!
When the Twilight Council mostly decapitated Sciona they will doubtless have confiscated any artefacts she had in her possession at that time (on the bits of her body which did not escape). As a mage her staff, wand and grimoire(s) seem to be obvious candidates. One of which may have been apocalyptically powerful.
And, yea, Sciona would want it back. Plus, as the council stole it from her, it is not unreasonable for her to claim it as being hers! Whether she has any legal basis for that depends on how the council took it. If they figured she was dead, and it did not matter, they may not have followed any formal niceties. So her claim would be valid. But if they followed the correct procedures to impound it, according to the laws their society operates under, then it is in the same status as all the other toys in the vault.
SmugD took it from one of her places, he did it when he knew she would be ‘out’ (namely robbing the Reliquary), he showed up there because he can’t help butt be a smartarse knowing something she doesn’t (namely, he just robbed her), remember how he acted during that meeting with Maxi and Sydney concerning the ‘missing’ half of the Geode?
Regarding the last two matters: if it was in the Reliquary, Sci-fright would not have left without it, regardless of how much SmugD pissed her off, if the Twilight Brigade claimed it for ‘Global Security’ under the guise of “she’s not going to need it anymore, because she’s dead” clearly that’s no longer valid as they never successfully killed her in the first place
No, everything points to SmugD burglarizing one of her properties and stealing one of her possessions
Quite a stretch, given that he was in the reliquary with Siona. But I grant that he does have the minions to burgle somewhere else at the same time. Or he might have been able to go through the whole process super fast, to be able to get to the Reliquary when he did.
However we had no hint that she had been burgled. Sciona was not saying ‘you broke into my secret HQ!”, for example. People do get very emotional over invasion of their private space, so it would be surprising not to vent about that.
Whereas we have seen Deus with a shopping trolley looting the Dark Reliquary. So I think the smoking gun is orders of magnitude more likely to be what Sciona is talking about. Deus had taken things that Sciona had her eye on. We know that much.
Even more so as Sciona left the Dark Reliquary with nothing. She was stark naked and had used up the only item she picked up!
Whilst I speculated that she could have teleported to some other chamber in the vault (and there were two looted, so she could have done the other one) she did leave the initial one in a huff, having been thrown off her game by Deus’s presence and taunting.
So even if the short-range teleport did turn out to be correct (and bearing in mind that it already requires speculation on something we have not witnessed), there was a 50/50 chance that any given item would be in the room she left behind. We can ignore all the chambers which we know were not looted, for these purposes.
Finally the odds are weighted by the fact that Sciona would likely have gone to the room that was most important to her. Which clearly did include the item that restored her. But it is not unreasonable that she was also there for something else, yet got overwhelmed by her boosted power and frustration in not being able to use that to kill Deus.
Everyone can say ‘oh I would never forget to take [something vitally important] with me’, but people do all the time. Especially when they have had a major distraction and got severely emotionally affected by it!
If an item has been impounded on the grounds of national/planetary security the fact that the person who used to own it is living or dead is totally immaterial.
Even far lesser confiscations follow the same rules. If a flame thrower had been impounded, due to that being illegal to own, unless in the military or being a fully accredited Mythbuster (or other equally rare exceptions), the legality of that would not vary if the criminal died, or lived, or was presumed dead but is actually alive. It is illegal. It stays in the evidence locker until a court (or the usual rules) require that it is safely destroyed.
Wait, flamethrowers are illegal? Wasn’t it just last month that some guy in the US had sold a very substantial number of them? Fairly sure it was that Musk guy, so highly doubtful it would have been on the illegal ‘Black Market’
Yes, he was at the Reliquary, after she had already broken in and cut her way into that vault, leaving plenty of time for him to raid her warehouse first. We have seen Opal open more than one portal at a time, so not a stretch to believe SmugD had had her open a portal to Sci-fright’s warehouse and have some of his other lackey’s loot the place at the same time as opening the portal to some garden shop and to the Reliquary
Arms manufacturers are one of the legal exceptions. Likewise authorised arms dealers. So their flamethrowers would not be impounded.
Whereas the black market is the place that illegal stuff goes to be sold. Such illegal flamethrowers would be impounded (along with those dealing in them, or even being in possession, being arrested).
I don’t know about ‘plenty of time’. Sciona’s defences were sufficient to end up with Pixel being strung up naked. These were due to magical wards she had in place, which warned her about the intrusion. Note that this is the intrusion by a stealth specialist super, with invisibility and an expert knowledge of magical artefacts and spells.
Not to mention her extensive use of powerful constructs. So Deus would be facing just as many challenges, in overcoming her defences, as Sciona did in breaking into the Black Reliquary. But with the extra risks that if he had any delay then Sciona could get away with the choicest items before he even arrived at the vault!
Even with the advantage of being able to portal from one location to another, that seems to be a very poor strategy. Risking gaining all those powerful items, just to get one from Sciona. Especially given that Deus made it clear that he had no intentions of contesting any items she had prioritised for herself or her people!
What you are proposing goes against everything we saw Deus doing there and previously. he is a businessman, not a burglar. Even looting the vault was done under what would be the valid pretext of it being marine salvage, protecting it from being stolen by a pirate. There is no such similar justification from burglarising a private citizen’s residence.
Finally, if the council had been concerned about the overwhelming power that some item gave her, that sounds like the kind of information they would have brought up, before sending Archon, and their fellows, off to fight her!
But not if the item in question had long ago been confiscated and put in the Dark Reliquary, where they considered it safe.
All that said though, I am not contesting the possibility. Only your assertion that it is the only one. There clearly are others. And, in my opinion, more likely ones.
I really havent had to say anything in this thread because Yorp is saying a lot of what I’d say.
Deus only said he would not contest anything in the Reliquary
Opal can open more than one portal at one time, so having some of his ‘people’ use one to drain Sci-frights’ blood-bank while he ‘distracts’ her by confronting her directly is an excellent strategy
Yes, Deus is a ‘businessman’, and a con artist and a thief, so stealing something from Sci-fright and then forcing her to pay just to look at his other stolen items to check that it’s not there is entirely within the bounds of logic and reason (naturally Sci-frights’ items would not be there, probably hidden safe in his pocket-country)
You have stated (well, you or Pander) that Sci-fright is not a ‘private citizen’, she is a wanted criminal (and no, it doesn’t mean shit that the ‘general public’ don’t know about her or the Council) so nothing Deus does to her could be brought before any sort of Court
Actually being a wanted criminal does not negate your personal rights. Even the police have to get a warrant to enter someone’s private property (barring exceptional circumstances where they have good reason to believe a crime is in progress and that any delay may endanger life or property).
As you pointed out Deus is not a cop and so does not have any such excuse. If he stole that from Sciona’s property it is still burglary and theft. Or, if he had a minion do that, he is also guilty of that, and conspiracy to commit such too.
Your accusations of him being a con-artist and thief are unfounded.
Everything Deus has said has been the truth. In order to commit a fraud you have to have lied about something. Deus has not. He has simply has never volunteered information that he does not wish to reveal. This is actually a constitutional right! It certainly is not a con.
The thief part likewise, should he file a marine salvage claim. If he does not then he could be found guilty of piracy and thereby your accusation would be valid. At the present time though he falls in the category of ‘innocent until proven guilty’.
No, he currently sits in the ‘guilty until proven innocent’: we have seen him break into the Reliquary, we have seen him take items from the Reliquary, we have seen him threaten another person, we have seen him offer to show what he took for a price to known criminal and international fugitive, we have not seen him lay a marine salvage claim to the authorities nor inform anyone about what he took
Deus broke nothing to enter the Reliquary. Taking the items, whilst in international waters, and from an unmanned facility, is not itself a crime. Only doing so and failing to file a marine salvage claim is. We have yet to see whether he does or does not do that. Showing items, and charging a fee for that, is not a crime in any jurisdiction.
You are repeatedly failing to show that he has committed any crime. Once we have found out if he has complied with international maritime law, then we can judge him. Until that happens, he is innocent.
It may have been ‘unmanned’, butt it was not abandoned nor forgotten about, or did you forget the Gate Keeper that tried to squish Maxi and co when they opened the front door? A front door that still had power and a working lock
Okay, he didn’t ‘break in’, but he still entered without the authority or the knowledge of the owners, and that is still illegal
Exacting a fee to view items he is not entitled to be in possession of is, at least, fencing stolen property (unless he can show the legitimate ownership of those items, which he can not as he ‘liberated’ them from the real owners, with no intent of returning)
You are failing to show that he hasn’t committed repeated crimes, going on the assumption of things that may or may not have happened ‘off screen’, the onus is on him to show innocence, not on me to show guilt as his actions to date have already shown that
Nope. International laws do not accord robots the status of being crew. A robotic vessel is unmanned.*
Sorry bud, but keep on saying that does not make it true. US laws do not apply in international waters. You need to use maritime law. The only ones that are applicable are the ones barring boarding a manned vessel. Which the vault is not.
A locked door, on a building, is pertinent under US law. But is totally irrelevant under maritime law, when dealing with an abandoned vessel (or uninhabited island).
The onus is never on the accused to prove their innocence. It is always on the accuser to prove their guilt. Every piece of evidence you have offered has failed to do that.
The actions Deus has taken on screen are compliant with maritime law. The ones taken off screen are open for speculation. You cannot prove Deus guilty of theft until we know whether he has filed a marine salvage claim or not.
And such would not even be necessary if the vault is not considered to be a vessel. Which, the more I think about it, the less credible it sounds. And being below sea level it would not even have the protection of being an island, even if it was inhabited.
So the vault (or those who built it) may have no rights under any law, even marine ones!
Checking it out, the closest applicable one would be Lagan. However that requires at least a buoy, on the surface, to indicate a claim of ownership. Without that it gets into the area of ‘debatable’ rather than ‘it is law’.
But, if we take it that there is an obligation to return it to its rightful owners, just who is the owner? I did not see a sign on the entrance saying who they are and how they can be contacted. And non-human monsters do not have legal ownership rights, in any event.
So who would Deus be obliged to give the artefacts to? Zephan? He is the only human we know to be part of the council (although I am sure there are others). Until Deus knows categorically who the legal owners are he cannot return the items.
* As a point of interest, new international treaties are going to have to be negotiated to afford protection to drone ships. For the moment though, if they want legal protection to avoid being classed as an abandoned vessel, they need to have at least one human crew member on board. Even if all they do is watch TV.
Unless that spell piggybacked off of the veil similar to the vaults ability to alert people to the alarm
Oops. Sorry, quoted the wrong bit, for my previous reply. It should have been:
You know, if the item Sconia used to fix herself had a time limit, then not having that dagger could be the reason for her to get so antsy
No, the effects of the ‘changes’ made by that device would be permanent (well, in the effect of it not wearing off or reversing)
Heres a funny thought,What if Deus has stolen nothing at all and its Wyrmil or whatever hes called thats been hitting her hideouts knowing that shed go off on one like this? It would be an elegant first step in revenge for her trying to kill him so hard he had to fuse himself to a hillbilly.
Heh. Cunning. Even though Archon are tracking him, if he was quick about it (using insider knowledge to turn off alarms, wards and whatnot), it would not look like more than a rest-stop on route to wherever he is travelling.
Had he been travelling cross-country, made a stop, then changed his direction of travel, Lucus would have been suspicious. But as Wyrmil was following a coast-line, any stop over would just appear to be part of the ongoing route (assuming that he does indeed have another destination – given that he is still moving).
Looking over these two pages and comments about Harem, it raises a very important question about Harem.
How much Harem would Harem Harem, if Harem could Harem Harem?
Well, 1 Dabbler (on retainer), 1 Deus, a boy band, a number of lubricated (with shots) girls, pretty much any of the arch-supers who isn’t on her team (limit due to Max’s rules), and any number of unconfirmed individuals whom harem can add to her harem.
Vote Incentive says she already did, and the answer is “all of herself”.
Yup, and there is even an under-comic scene, with Gwen the witch, in the Steak House, where it is strongly implied that Harem was doing precisely that. Albeit not with the body present in the conversation not being included in the …
*turns head sideways*
*gestures with paws interlocking*
… umm … you know… goings on.
Ahem. I will be leaving now.
Panel 5, the t-shirt could very easily be misread, as follows:
Pushing Harem up to a 12. She gets bonus points for appearing to approve of a carnivore (otherwise why go on to flaunt her status). Plus the rest for offering inheritance prospects.
Just in case folks think that billionaires don’t choose to act flamboyantly, with things that normal folks would consider valuable, check out this way of avoiding parking fees!
So Harem’s mom is keeping her eye on the bottom line, huh?
When Harem’s skirt is the wrong length, her mom would probably notice that and speak up.
Probably to say ‘only have your bum showing if you are trying to pull a billionaire!’
Well, she has her work cut out for her, what with Harem wearing five skirts at a time and being able to teleport all over at a moment’s notice.
Dont worry,Mothers tend to spot enough things to make the kids think they can see through walls ;3.
There actually is an alien temple, but there’s nothing in it of actual value, except the possible gag gift value of the big-nosed idol which makes people sneeze.
That and the alien gift shop.
If there really was an alien temple, and that was verifiable to the world at large, then everything in it would be of huge value. Just look at how much people will pay for an authenticated piece of memorabilia from the Beatles or David Beckham. Or a tiny packet of Moon regalith.
Four candles from the temple would sell for millions (or more). Fork handles, from the alien gift shop, would likewise.
It is my experience alien temples hidden on Earth tend to have some horrible things lurking in them, dedicated to some monster as the living avatar of an elder god, has an elder god sleeping in it, or is actually a prison in some manner for some beast…or a jerk ass alien’s idea of a test for anyone who finds it.
and then there are the evil companies and cultists who result from finding it.
Scientifically speaking an alien temple would be invaluble but if it has nothing distinctly useful in it people would spend the next hundred years arguing if its a hoax or not so i dont see much value in fork handles(10 points if you get the classic comedy sketch this is from).
No no, I said “four candles”!
And specified that it would be if verified to the world at large. Maybe having four sarcophagi containing alien bodies.
The arguments would be about the four tourist brochures and whether they really were promoting sex tourism on Earth!
SmugD is a bad guy, through and through, nothing he has done has not been at his benefit first and foremost, if it ended up doing good (like ordering the murder of that dictator), that was of secondary consideration
People can still like him all they want, doesn’t change who and what he is
What may be throwing people off is he comes across as a villain-protagonist.
He becomes a focus and the lesser of the evils presented, and made in such a way that in those situations you route for him; even if in the end is motivations are anything but good.
Hes a bit like Marcone from the Dresden Files,Hes undeniably a villain and in an idealistic world he needs dealing with fast but in all honesty people are currently better off with him than without and theres nastier fish to fry.I wonder if theres anything in the evil overlord list about arranging things so that a world with you taken out of power would cause much worse things than a world with you in power?If not Deus needs to read the list and add a few rules of his own.
I think the big charm with Deus is that hes an honest Villain whos intelligent enough to mostly stick to legally acceptable evils…at least in public.
Um…Guesticus, you just summarily dumped every human alive or dead firmly into the Bad Guy category. Nothing you or I do is for any reason other than our own benefit. Good deeds? We like to feel good about ourselves in keeping with whatever morals or ethics we’ve integrated. Eating? Going to work? Paying rent? All of it for our own benefit.
I’ll go so far as to say not only can I point out any particular action of yours (or mine) performed as a benefit to ourselves, but also you (or I) can be convinced to perform an `unthinkably evil’ act.
Good and Evil are not absolutes; I venture to say more Evil has been done in Good’s name than under Evil’s own banner. For my money, lying to one’s Self is arguably the greatest Evil possible.
But that’s just me…I’m known as a pretty amoral bastid in some circles.
Maxima: “He’s more than twice your age!”
Based on linear time, sure. But ever since Daphne split off her extra bodies she has been experiencing time at a 5:1 ratio. In other words, for every year that passes for any non-5-bodied-person, Daphne experiences 5 years time passing. This is exactly why she has multiple degrees at such a young age.
So if we make the following assumptions:
Daphne is 25 years old;
Daphne split off her 4 additional bodies at the age of 15;
Then Daphne has the same amount of experience as a person who is 15 + (10*5) = 65 years old.
Assuming that Deus is about 45 years old, this makes her older than Deus by about 20 years, if actual living experience is considered instead of linear time expired.
Daphne is physically 19, butt has had the life-experiences to equal a 50 year-old (her own words)
Butt in the real world, combined experiences doesn’t actually work
Yeah she has a wider range of experience but its not really added all that much to her wisdom yet.Though shes been given a lot of responsibilities now so in a few years shell probably develop a lot more common sense at an accelerated rate in theory.
1) It is spelled ‘but.’
2) When you say “in the real world” when trying to justify your pet theory about a superhero, I have to wonder about your grounding in reality.
That bit about the ‘in the real world’? Had nothing to do with fictional heroes, butt (byte me Fairy King) about how often ads (shockingly enough) in the real world mention how a company has a ‘combined experience of x-number of years’
Unlike some people, am able to tell the difference between a made-up fictional world and how things work in there, and the real world and how things work in there
Thank you for brightening my day, because that was the most amusing thing you have ever said on these forums. And probably anywhere else as well.
ROFL.
(Well, not really, I haz kitty on my lap, otherwise though I would have).
I mean, Harem’s combined age is well beyond any human being at this point in her timeline, so even if she is a bit immature overall, it’s not for lack of experience.
Or maybe Maxi was taking that into consideration, which means that Deus is creepy-old, Twilight-Sparkly-stalker old!!
I will give Deus credit – he is an honest douche, since he admits to Harem’s face its just physical.
His honesty could come back to screw him over later though, that is not a happy looking Harem right there >.>
Yeah Deus is mostly an honest guy at heart which is odd considering hes also a businessman n.n.
Well honest does not equate to high moral fiber.
An honest yet morally bankrupt salesman will sell you rope and give you all the pros and cons about said rope and how best to use it but will not stop you from hanging yourself.
And the game of both sides pretending to not know things that both sides know continues!.Its good that Deus was smart enough to instantly annoy Sciona into violence so that she didnt have time to blurt more on Deus’s thievery in front of Harem otherwise Archon might be willing to throw away their double agent card to demand all the world ending artifacts.
Though that said could Archon even officially do that considering they wereitems that cant be admitted to exist stolen from a group that doesnt officially exist from a place that cant be admitted to exist either?.Maybe we will be seeing more of the shady side of Archon in future!
You know, I would have thought that him being a manipulative, arrogant jerk-ass would have been a more important point than the age difference.
Maybe. But there are certain things that a Lieutenant Colonel would avoid saying, in front of witnesses, to head of the company supplying her force with the most advanced weapons and equipment humanity makes. And certainly not insulting him in front of his … umm … friend-with-benefits.
Plus it would make her look petty and jealous. Which would only make him gloat.
Harem broad-ly avails herself of the varieté that life provides her.
Or there bolstering her cover story as a triple agent.
Yeah, was thinking that as well: they have had time during when Bodie was telling Maxi about Sci-fright being in Deus’ office to have that sorted out (if Maxi hadn’t already known what Abby was up to), specially when you note she hasn’t mentioned Abby’s lack of tracker (which she is probably entitled to remove when ‘not on duty or on call’, ie her free time)
WOW i didnt think Deus had lived more than a century, he got to be a alien or something. Dave did say that harem add more then 50 years old with the cumulative of all her clone.
Mentally and emotionally people do age at different rates to their chronological ones. Someone running a multinational corporation and uplifting a whole country probably has more experiences crammed into each day than most folks (Harem excepted). Emotionally though he is an elder statesman and she is a spoilt little girl.
Deus aught to be ashamed of himself!
He’d keep it hidden somewhere in a shadowy building that thieves would know contained something important. rig it with enough traps to entice/scare. Then anyone who survived wound up with the bag and an offer of employment. He’d get the enjoyment of testing new traps. and an employee with skills he needed
Wait… how old IS Deus? Are we even sure he’s human? He has as much swagger as Nicol Bolas, and that’s not something often acrued in a human lifespan.
He looks to be in his thirties or forties. No, we are not. But he may be. Err, I will take your word on the swagger analogy. Sounds like Nicol has a big pair though.
$600 million in bearer bonds from Die Hard?
buried temple from Lara Croft? (or generic game)
one of my swords (truth)?
Harem’s age is a funny thing. She’s lived I think it added up to 65 years, but all of it has happened after the fiberoptic revolution. (At the time of this page I figure she’s born in 1998, though that’ll probably change as the comic continues decompressing time.) She’s going to have more experiences in common with a teenager, but more experience in common with a pensioner. Come to think of it, Harem’s living in literal decompressed time; a savoring and lingering existence not unlike what’s happening to us readers when reading the comic. Like, you know how three days in the comic has lasted us eight years, of course Harem just gets five days per day but it’s her life rather than a narrative we come back to for minutes at a time.
What a strange and beautiful and lonely life it must be.
“YOU HAD MEAT” on the t-shirt?