Grrl Power #597 – High Int., let’s say average Wis.
The first half of this page is channeling that crime procedural show “Numbers” where, if you haven’t seen it, the FBI guy has his math savant brother use all kinds of crazy math to solve crimes, like applying fluid dynamics to traffic patterns to plot get away driver escape routes and the like. My biggest complaint with that show was they only did a surface level explanation of the math. I really wanted them to spend a good 15 minutes really getting into the math, like an episode of Numberphile. (Similarly, my complaint with The Imitation Game was they barely explained anything about the Enigma machine itself, unlike this Numberphile episode. (And this one talking about how they cracked it.))
The second half of the page is anything involving the sad trombone noise.
To be fair to Dabbler, I didn’t think of that solution until I sat down to write this page. I think if I had played any tabletop RPG’s in the last few years, my brain might have been better geared to outsmart the GM. That’s where the stupidly obvious refrigerator logic solution occurs to you while you’re playing and not 2 nights later, and the GM goes “uh… yeah, I guess you could do that.” and you wind up skipping half the adventure. The evil wizard builds a tower full of traps and monsters, each level more dastardly than the last, and Lina Inverse uses a flight spell to fly up to the top floor on the outside of the tower and chuck a fireball in the window.
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One thing no one else has seemly picked up on (or at least haven’t seen any comments about it): Sydney is quietly keeping herself busy watching hentai on her tablet :D
Also: you have brought Sexy Dabbles back :D
Dang does she look hot in panels 3 and 7 :)
Based on what? We don’t see the screen.
I think she’d be blushing more if it was hentai.
Well obviously she isn’t watching hentai (certainly not with Dabbles in the building), butt whatever it is has her completely engrossed in it that her eyes are doing that weird thing as seen in panel four
It is probably lyrics to a learning aid, set to the music of ‘the leg bone is connected to the thighbone’.
“The safety switch is connected to the trigger, the ejector port is oiled and check to be clear of obstruction…”
Sydney does want to be allowed to carry her gun in her holster, rather than in kit form.
and now im imagining them playing those in a police training seminar for new recruits.
I am a policeman
big and hung
here is my nightstick
and here is my gun
when I see a protester
hear me shout
hands up and freeze
or I’ll shoot your brains out
Dave is a Numberphile fan! [high five]
*reading comic, preparing comment…Sydney beats me to comment*
Reminds of a warhammer fantasy RPG tabletop where the GM put the evil wizard at the top of a tower. Expecting us to fight our way to the top we instead had one character who had climbing (no roll to climb a rocky surface tower) send a rope down and we all climb up to top of tower. We then ambushed the mage by surprise in his top chamber and killed him in like 2 rounds….Gm really couldn’t do nothing :P
A smart wizard will have some very small text on the under the outer window still that just catches the eye of the person with climb speed.
It would read:
“I prepared explosive runes this morning”
Odds would be high that one with climbing skills would also have thief skills in disarming traps.
In smaller print
-Credited by theives guild Traps department
insuring a better tomorrow today
Or reinforce it enough that it’s as hard as the rest of the tower
Nice. Almost as fun as taking a sledgehammer to the base of the tower, and 65% less likely to kill all potential hostages.
this is why you send the paladin to inform the local towns guard before you eside to collapse the tower potentially killing everyone…you can usually get 3 tricks this way before a paladin will wise up.
Ya’know so long as there aren’t any hostages, magically transformed princesses, or some ancient evil sealed inside a deep dark chamber, and its just your run of the mill evil wizard’s tower; I find the Lina Inverse approach is best, and you can sift through rubble if you want any treasures anyway.
At some point the GM has to asume the enemy was smart enough to make countermeasures, even if hte GM did not think about it. When in doubt, a opposing roll can be used. If the character lacked the player skill, he runs into a trap…
Smart, yes. Wise, maybe not. The DM who only makes intelligence checks, in such circumstances (i.e. with a high intelligence mage) is not being fair to the circumstances. If they had an experienced castelan as an adviser, or many years of experience of adventurers trying to penetrate static defenses, that is more reasonable. Likewise if the antagonist has superhuman mentality, such as a wise dragon or ancient god.
However I have played with some GMs who always give the benefit of hindsight to every antagonist. Which required me having to scout out major encounters, using maxed out stealth and magical protections, to ensure that they could not spring any deus ex machina countermeasures against the party.
A further precaution being not to reveal key parts of any cunning plan I developed. My fellow players, being equally frustrated by our every plan being mysteriously countered, in detail, would play along with any odd-seeming requests I would make. Knowing that it would end up with a trap that the villain could not escape from, without a literal act of (evil) god to aid them.
Which still happened sometimes. Like an unit of assassins all spontaneously developing teleportation power, to escape a fiery inferno we set! But the rest of their army, and their headquarters, were all lost. So we had a solid victory, despite that.
Yeah with DMs its always an eternal armsrace of clever plans and less clever arsepulls.My groups turned it into a game to make the DM as paranoid as possible even if we dont have a cunning plan to ruin his day just cause we got tired of him blatantly changing things on a dime if we ever did anything smarter than run in a straight line and kill anything in the way.On the plus side its now reached the point where if we DO manage to trash his plans by accident hes convinced that wed been planning that outcome for weeks on end *Happy sigh*.
i meant to “trip and fall on the pressure plate that fires the poison darts at waist height.
>
>
Remember kiddos always carry a bowling ball covered in black oil into dungeons to roll down hallways. no you now where the balled rolled across and it likly tripped any traps it crossed.
I always gave characters the benifit of limited hindsight: The theif is going to find the windows barred, and have the open them without anyone inside noticing. (That’s an opposed stealth vs observation)
It is essential that most non-player characters take basic precautions appropriate to their society, to have a feel of realism. OK an utopian society may not need locked doors, but any region with an active thieves’ guild, bandits or pesky minor monster problem, sure will need something to keep valuables secure and people safe in their sleep.
Likewise if magic using criminals are common you would expect whatever mundane defenses can be deployed to be in habitual use. If tapping illusionary gold with (say) cold iron, will dispel the illusion, then expect all money changers and high value shops to do that as a matter of routine.
But if you find a peasants hut with explosive runes, masterwork traps and a guardian monster in the cellar, you kinda hope that there is a reason for that. Rather than it turning out to be the same in any random dwelling a rogue checks out.
Wait, you realise that ‘hindsight’ is what you get after the fact, don’t you?
Did you mean ‘foresight’? o_O
No, it is the correct term in this case. Where a games master has not stipulated every detail, but he feels that a person in that situation would have made some precaution, it is legitimate to retroactively grant them that.
For instance if a warrior is disarmed, even if the games master forgot to stipulate that he has a secondary weapon, he may decide that he actually has a dagger hidden in his boot. This is the kind of thing that players do, so it is reasonable that any experienced warrior may take such a precaution.
In this case though it would be essential not to grant him anything bigger, as the player has already observed the warrior and would have noticed a big backup weapon. Which could have influenced their decision as to whether a disarm was tactically useful.
This is only worth doing if it serves the purpose of the adventure. If the games master felt that the players need a longer fight, or perhaps he wants to give the warrior a means of negotiating terms.
Whereas it would be unfair if the player was, for example, escaping from a dungeon and was only armed with a stick himself. In which case the games master should stick with the equipment as written.
Especially as it would make for a dramatic moment as both opponents face each other, waiting to see who will make the first move to grab the sword. Possibly to their detriment, if it means exposing themselves to a counterattack.
Although, to be fair, you are right. It is granting the character foresight, even though the mechanics are that it is done through the games master’s hindsight.
That’s what meant: the term used to explain how the character had that extra blade, they had the foresight to carry a hidden blade
Hindsight is typically when they realise, afterwards, while tied up or after waking up naked in a ditch “Really should have brought that other blade afterall”
In other words: foresight has you anticipating something and being prepared for it, hindsight is when you realise too late that that dinky little blade would have been useful :D
And if I was the wizard, I’d have large windows on the top floor with metal frames — and a strong electric current running through those frames. For a start.
Where are you going to get electric currents from, in a time that doesn’t even have running water? o_O
That’s where lightning runes come into play, I’m sure any half decent wizard can set it so it has a little current flowing through, and when that gets disrupted by the thief climbing through the window, it zaps him like a man wearing copper armour in a thunderstorm
Except… they would have no idea to do something like that, it literally would never even occur to them to use lightning runes in such a manner
But an air elemental to guard the outside of the tower however
In one of John Dickson Carr’s “Gideon Fell” novels, a house had a rather nasty trap left over from the Seventeenth (or earlier) Century – a heavy window that would be triggered to fall – FAST – by weight on its sill.
And there was a Very Sharp Blade on its lower edge…
I prefer griffins or other creatures to wait until the damage via fall to be bigger than the HP number. Sometimes I let the thief tie off the rope first.
TBH, the GM could’ve easily added aerial defenses or anti-climbing traps at the last minute. Deterring, yet still doable, obstacles.
They did it also in Goblin Slayer, same plot really… only the Evil Mage also had an Automatic Rez Spell that revived him the instant the one that killed him talked. Goblin Slayer’s solution? Toss him down the top of the tower and let gravity (strong and silent) do the job for him.
Did anyone look at the math in panel 5? Spec. 0+0=80085. Cracked me up.
II think it is O+O=BOOBS
To be precise it is BOOBS = BOOBS.
Akin to (.) (.) = BOOBS, as pointed out elsewhere.
B( O Y O )BS
Solve for Y
Y? because boobs are FUN!
Nice subtle change between panels two and six :D
The art of chibification.
*wags tail chibifically*
That is panel five, two and six is Maxi and Zeph (with the addition of Dabbles and Sydney)
*hides*
No need to hide, you simply replied to the wrong post :)
Right post. Just not enough paws to count properly above four!
I once worked with a guy that was so dumb, he could count to twenty-one unless he was naked.
Except, no chibi’s in either two or six
Regarding the change: while it looks like either DaveB copy-pasta’ed Maxi and Zeph from two into six, or reduced six to make it two, both Maxi and Zeph have different facial expressions
I just keyed on your “Nice subtle change …” and looked at the comic for two similar-looking panels. So was not counting panels to ensure they matched.
3 and 5 fitted the bill (if taking your ‘subtle change’ as being a comedic way of underplaying the vast changes between the proud and the humbled Dabbler). And were close enough to your 2 and 4 that I did not spot the discrepancy.
Whereas the differences in composition between the two panels you actually intended (namely being a much longer shot to accommodate Dabbler and Sydney both also being in the frame) did not leap out as being the one you were referring to. Until you pointed out my error, anyhow.
That’s what meant by ‘subtle’ change: you would have to look real close to see that they are different, which is why specifically named the panels to look at
Three and Five are the opposite of subtle :D
I just hear like a glass breaking sound effect for panel 5, also love the change to a flat simple drawing for it.
i’m pretty sure DaveB meant for something like this. although, i personally heard more to the effect of this. did you mean this beauty?
All viable as well, however that third one does not work if it was meant too. I think the record scratch works best out of the two for the suddenness of it however. A tire screech would’ve worked beautifully too….maybe followed by the crash.
This is the one I enaudiblaged.
I don’t know, if Wisdom covers impulse control, moderate might still be too generous.
She just has a permanent +0 will save
But halved when sleepy.
Love the Hellsing reference :)
sometimes you don’t need to be the smartest to find a workable solution
Wow your name is interesting, when read with a touch of dyslexia.
“multi fang in real life” is how I read it.
Not that it matters since a smart villian would likely abandon the base of they couldn’t just close the portal on the one side and kill you that way… (If she didn’t notice the look on fans face)
*dabs face, autocorrect autocorrects half the sentence sometimes…
why would you want to dab your face? won’t that hurt?
unless you mean like dab a tissue on your face
It did have the look more of a staging post than a base, to me. Just like we see criminals in the real world stealing cars, and subsequently abandoning or even burning them, to avoid being found themselves, it would make sense for magical criminals to abandon the far end of a portal, linked to a facility they just robbed!
However real police do still seek out such abandoned vehicles, and anywhere that may have been occupied whilst planning a theft, as forensic examination can provide clues as to their identities or wherever else they may have been.
To be honest if I was a cunning magical villain idve boobytrapped the suspiciously still open bloodportal with a nuclear device-preferably with some means of making sure that itd only go off if something sentient entered the area(Idve said alive but in the world of the supernatural theres more than a few undead and unliving that could be on the case too).Its a great way to get rid of evidence and also overkill a few pesky enemies who were probably chosen to go through cause they were considered strong enough to deal with anything you can dish out ^^.
Which is, conveniently, why Sydney suggested tossing a rock through
Which is why i said the convenient comment about sentient targets-Your move Sydney!
Wait, are you claiming that a rock is sentient? If not, then Sydney has already countered your trap
*nods*
All Archon want to do is find the location of the other end of the portal, so that they can approach it from a less predictable route. They will still face any booby traps when they get there mind. But that is true of any time they enter a super villain’s lair.
This way though they will be on the side of the trap which may have a disarm button on it.
And as a counter to your counter “Well the rock didnt set anything off lets go i-BAKOOOOOOOM!!!!”
– News just in- a random part of america was destroyed by a nuclear device in a suspected terrorist attack.The current deathtoll is unknown but rescue workers managed to find several gold plated bodyparts believed to belong to Archons premier superheroine Maxima.Now back to the weather-Cloudy with a small chance of radiation!
You seem to be under the misapprehension that it is intended as a trap-finding rock. It is not. It is a means of locating the other end of the portal. That is it.
None of the team are stupid enough to think that the rock will send a message back saying “don’t enter there is a nuclear device here” (or otherwise be under the impression that throwing a rock will have a similar result).
They have already stated that they think it is a death trap. They will take separate precautions to deal with that in an appropriate way. With the advantage of being able to approach the trap from an angle far less likely to set off the device(s).
what if the rock is someone’s pet?
Providing that is just an affectation of theirs then there still is no problem. Whereas if it can get up and walk around then they are less likely to pick that as the rock of choice. Especially if the owner is on paw to protest the cruel exploitation of Sylvester Stone or, if not, was wise enough to put a collar with “Rocky” written on it.
Heh, would enjoy seeing (from a distance) the one to claim The Rock as a pet (or even Rocky) :P
Which does rather presuppose having a nuclear device just laying around looking for a use. Given that the whole aim of the exercise was to obtain apocalyptic devices though, you may well have a point though, if they made use of one of their new toys.
Which we may get to see, when they get there the slow way.
This way though they get to check the inventory of missing items and run predictions on those most likely to be used as traps. So slow but safer.
Eh they oceans 11’d an ancient facility which has things stored in it that make the necronomicon look like a childrens book,Im pretty sure magical resources like that can half inch a nuke or ten from mundies who dont believe in magic to begin with.
Or you know, send the fracking immortal… xp
Awesome. Finally a role for Achilles, other than ‘projectile’!
OK his offensive capability is weak enough that he would probably get himself kidnapped. But they would not be able to drain his blood, and he could call for backup, if he believed that he had triggered all the traps and it was safe for squishies like Maxima.*
Plus that tracking spell would be handy, as it may lead Archon to the villain’s main base, if they did whisk him away there.
* All things are relative. Even Maxima is a squishy next to Achilles. And, versus (non-physical attack) magic, she is just as vulnerable as any strong willed muggle.
To be honest Achillies should get way more use on missions in general,Sure hes not got any flashy damage dealing powers but kit him out with the right gear and hes got near infinate utilit.Also Maybe get him to eat a homing beacon every few days,Letting villains kidnap a completely invulnerable hostage is a great way to track villains and if they realise he has a tracker in him what can they do about it?X3
Laxatives
Cunning.
We know that he can eat food, gain nourishment from it and so on. But, on the other paw, he is invulnerable to every known attack ever tested on him, even down to a sub-atomic level.
That would include resisting any nasty side effects of poisoned or spoilt food. We have seen that he has no qualms eating stuff that has fallen on the floor. He could though eat decomposing food, feces or a petri dish of plague, with zero risk to himself.
You are cunning however, in that laxatives may be a gap in his protection. If prunes can provide nourishment to him they may also be able to … make him regular.
On the whole though powers in the Grrlverse tend to work on an ‘as intended basis’ rather than ‘strictly following normal physics/chemistry rules even if that would have nasty side effects basis’. So I suspect that his biochemistry will be resistant to laxatives (or at least the more extreme effects).
Was curious, is Achilles merely “unkillable” and/or “unhurtable” and/or “unaffectable”? The difference being, I’m thinking, putting Achilles into a giant blender might not bother him in the first or second case, but might really annoy him if it were also filled with poop, or week old dairy products. Or, if he were trapped somewhere for a long time. Or, if he were subjected to Miley Cirus music for a week. … Or, if he were nailed with something his system perceived as *nice* like super-powerful pheromones or something even more powerfully *nice* and mind-warping.
He is certainly the former two options you list. The fact that he shows off being unconcerned about possible food contamination hints that he is unaffectable. Plus I would expect comprehensive attack testing to have included biochemical weapons, given that they went on to test at subatomic levels.
One other piece of evidence which also points to him being unaffectable (physically albeit not necessarily mentally or emotionally) is that his hairstyle has never changed. Possibly a personal choice, but the alternative is that even his hair cannot be manipulated with simple chemicals.
One final point corroborating this theory is that he does not appear to age. So there is a good chance that he will still be around, and looking for cheese sandwiches, as the heat death of the universe approaches!
* You need to search for “Harold”, or scroll down manually, as the name “Achilles” only appears on his picture, so will not be picked up in a text search.
I just had a really evil thought about wizard towers: Full of traps on the way to the top yadayadayada, but the top floor? Nothing, except maybe a Reverse Gravity spell and a ceiling that’s actually an illusion. And all because the wizard put everything that really mattered to them underground.
Alternately: stuff the tower full of traps all the way to the top. Stuff the underground levels full of even nastier traps and the nastiest beasties you can think of.
Put everything you give a damn about in a completely different tower. Preferably on a completely different plane of existence.
Live in a luxury condo in town, convenient to grocery shopping, nightclubs and magic shops. And have a death trapped tower for the people looking for you for unfriendly purposes.
That sounds straight out of the evil overlord list,I approve!
I’m a big fan of the Wizards personal quarters being on a demo plane linked to multiple locations via a door. You climb up the tower, jump into to the window of a near identical apartment set up complete with fakes of relics, completely empty except for a note by the door, saying: You just triggered my alarm spell.
Oh I can do the most wonderful things with portals. Deadly devious things. Marvelous inventive wonderful things. Yummy ones. Spectacular beyond words to describe!
Here, step into my kennel …
NONE of you can hold a single candle against the greatness that is/was….ACERERAC. The creator of…THE ANNIHILATION PORTAL. The single greatest killer of all PCs in Dungeons and Dragons, EVER. PERIOD. :) And to think, all you need to really survive that place…is a simple wand of Secret Doors and Trap Location…of course, better have it fully charged. >:D
An interesting theory, but a half decent paladin / divine magic character should be able to detect the massive amounts of evil that would radiate from beneath them.
Intriguing. I tend to consider Sciona to be a blood mage. What sort of paladin would you consider her to be? Presumably one of the anti-paladins, if she is detecting the evil radiating from beneath her?
Oh, or is that a reply to Man in the Mists? If so detection capabilities usually have some kind of limits, such as ‘line of sight’ or ’30 foot range’. Provided the mage is aware of these limits, and has at least an average wisdom, they can ensure that their evil lair is situated more than (say) 30 foot underground.
It is worth noting though that the only evil Man in the Mists used was in the context of ‘cunning’, and was not a description of the wizard. So, even if the paladin was in range of the wizard’s inner sanctum, if they are not evil then there would be nothing to detect.
Even neutral characters can be up to activities, such as smuggling or theft, that would not automatically make them evil, yet could still have paladins deployed to counter them.
My best experiences of this is when we (a relatively inexperienced group of adventures, with low character levels) were playing with a very experienced and ambitious GM.
First off, we cornered the bad guy only to have him show up with two lvl 10 mercenaries. The idea being that he would escape, and that we would have to track him down. Except one of my friends told them “we will pay you double!” No escape for him.
Second time, I got a part of the Ultimate Artifact, and ran into a very high-level (possibly epic) guild of artifact collectors. They knew I had the artifact, and respected my ownership over it. So I gave it to them for safe-keeping.
That spoiled the whole plotline where someone was supposed to steal the part from us – epic win.
Can we just make it cannon that she was watching an old episode of Numbers? *grins*
Yeah I confess for the past several pages Ive also been wondering why they didnt just send a drone through or something to scope things out.Heck lets be honest any traps on the other side probably wouldnt be noticed by Maxima on full tank mode anyway.
The real question is why would someone be so stupid as to make a beeline back to the place where the legions of people who want to catch/horribly murder them could easily access by just stepping through the blood portal?What is he expecting to get there that could possibly be worth the risk?
Revenge against the monsters who set him up. Kind of his raison d’être.
Yes but the interesting question is what will he find at the lair that could guarantee him revenge?
I doubt if even Sciona is rock stupid enough to be there and anyone with any sense wouldnt leave clues to where they ran off to in the first place that an entire army of supernatural beings are going to look,Heck once word gets out that half of the best supernatural toys are being carried by a handful of people I imagine more than a few unofficial council investigators will start looking for them too if only to gank the thieves and steal some of the artifacts for themselves.
Oddly I imagine the ones not employed by the council will probably be a lot more competent too,Though that opinion might be because 3 Archon members have repeatedly one upped the entire senior council with zero effort and im not even sure if one of those members was even on her proper meds at the time either.
I doubt he considers it guaranteed. But what is guaranteed is that every other course of action open to Cooter will have no way of finding the monsters. Guaranteed. What slim hopes he may have for stumbling across a clue at some random location, on the map, is directly countered by the Veil.
Not that he would know such on his own. But Wyrmil is bound up with him and is fully up to speed with that.
And he is likely to have other options that Cooter does not. Perhaps he may have allies who were standing ready to deal with any double cross? If so the last time they saw him was probably when he was on his way to the meet up with Sciona at the staging post. In which case Wyrmcoot may not be headed to the other end of the portal, but will be trying to contact his allies.
Or dig up his weapons and explosives cache (we know he favours the latter as a solution to problems). Or get his vehicle out of storage (he had to have gotten there somehow).
So whilst Wyrmil could do other things, like sound out a supernatural contact, there are quite a number of plausible things that he may need to pick up, before doing that. For instance his personal effects, toothbrush and maybe a spare wallet and/or keys might all be at the last motel he stayed in.
Likewise Cooter’s may be round one of his cousins’ houses. Or in the building next to the portal summoning chamber.
Mmm. I was sleepy when I wrote that. Scratch the Veil being a problem nowadays. The fact that he is bound up with Wyrmil will (probably) mean that Cooter is exempt to it. Although, possibly I called it right as the Veil almost certainly has not been programmed to recognise a Wyrmil Cooter hybrid as being supernatural (and thereby grant him the ability to see through the illusions).
However, even if we take that as granted, the Wyrmil side of his mind should still be able to see through the illusions. So, unless he has a reason that he does not want Cooter clued in, he can keep him up to speed with what things actually are. If Dave follows D&D type conventions then that should allow Cooter to see through whatever has been pointed out to him.
Nonetheless the gist of the paragraph is that Cooter’s resources leave him unable to find Sciona, without going to the only place he has met her. The remaining paragraphs stand OK as written.
Sciona may not be rock stupid enough to stsy there, but Cooter is stupid enough to expect her to.
Yes but Cooter also has someone much smarter than him sitting in his head at the moment too and we already know that Wyrmil has at least got limited command of his body and is probably not willing to let Coots dumbass them both to death if he can possibly avoid it.of course this also means whereever they are going is somewhere Wyrmil wants to go too.
Sorry DaveB but Lina Inverse wouldn’t fly to the top of the tower it would be to much effort. She would most likely stand near the base and dragon slave the whole thing..
…She…ACTUALLY DID THAT IN AN EPISODE OF THE ANIME! I haven’t seen the episode myself, though.
Interestingly, she was not NEARLY as Dragon-Slave heavy in the novel. (In part because it got Worfed more then Worf)
I am depressed that TV Tropes has infected me enough, by osmosis, that I know precisely what you mean.
*gets a rope and tries to tie a hangman’s noose*
Dog, you know this is a darned sight harder without opposable thumbs!
Not sure the dragon slave its self really got “Worfed”, so much as we saw it destroy entire towns, mountain sides, set off a tsunami.
rule of funny has made the humans in the Mazoku (ex-Mazoku barrier) super-human compared to the rest of the world so flying debris from a nearby explosion isn’t as a big a deal. But most things hit directly with the spell were guaranteed dead or destroyed. Just it takes time to cast properly, allowing somethings time to get out of the way or most of the way out of the way like the demon Joyrock.
Other things like Shabranigdo and Hellmaster Phibrizzo…well the spell drew power from Shabranigdo so it wouldn’t hurt him anyway (although it did draw power away from his ghost as a side effect to help fight that a little), and Phibrizzo and the like are so high power that the relatively small amount of energy being drawn from their boss wouldn’t be likely to hurt them very much anyway. Zanafar and the rune-chicken what’s its name were anti-magic weapons of insane levels of power.
the Worf effect is more a *he gets punched out every time they meet a new enemy, and is only strong because we say he is* Didn’t really take the time to prove it.
Not if she’s looking for treasure, then she just uses a spell that cuts a giant hole through the entire dungeon taking her directly to the dungeon boss.
and actually come to think of it, there was that haunted tower they went into to search for treasure. It was basically a gag-filler episode so how much it reflected their normal actions not withstanding. I mean this is the person whose planning stages have gone to *if I blow up that mountain, the lake on it will flood the forest and force the guy I’m chasing out of hiding*
And it’s also too bad they couldn’t put other spells on this hypothetical tracking rock. Such as a scrying spell to let you see what’s on the other side. Or a magic sensor that lets you know of any mystical traps on the other side.
Oh, if all 3 spells cut off, you know the trap is too dangerous to risk going through. Otherwise, figure out how to disable any traps, then send through one of Harem’s duplicates. If it’s uninjured, use her to safely teleport everyone and their weapons in past any filter traps (such as no non-humans, no magical beings/items, no weapons, etc.) only placed in the direct area of the portal.
Mmm … I don’t know how keen Harem would be on being used as a mine detector. Actually, yes I do. Dying is not something that she wants to try out!
At the moment Harem has no way of telling if killing one of her will permanently loose that body. Even worse, as her mind is quantumly linked, anything that affects one should theoretically affect them all. So a piece of shrapnel going through her brain could well kill every one of her bodies!
The other flaw in the plan is that her upper limit on weight carried is Peggy’s rifle. And even then only if she dismisses all her other bodies. Thus making herself critically vulnerable, as, even if she can survive loosing a body, if that is the only one she has active, then there is no way for her to summon another.
Either way though there is nobody on the team below that weight limit. So, only by doing a gestalt with Varia, could she bring along even one other person. As sharing Harem’s teleport is the power that Varia gains in a gestalt with her.
But, for a less dangerous situation, they could get her to teleport in the pixie we saw in the Twilight Council chamber. And, you never know, she might have pixie dust to shrink other team members to a weight that Harem could carry.
At the very least maybe Harem can bring in tools to disarm any traps she had to rush past. Or if the location is a fortress locked from the inside, and she can open it from said inside.
True. And, although it does not get mentioned often, Harem does have a highly developed skill set, well in advance of her years. So with all the perks of a fit body, good dexterity/reactions (judging by her martial arts and teleportation maneuvers) and (hopefully) being well trained in trap detection, she should be pretty good at that.
And if a bomb’s timer does suddenly start rushing down to zero she can always teleport home. Not so good if it just goes boom though. Which is probably the less cinematic case in reality.
That’s what’s tricky about non-magical traps. If magic can sense magical traps, and magic can disarm said traps, we still have little idea about mechanical traps. Let’s suppose we kicked our magic probe through; we get the location, a basic view of the other side’s room and mechanical traps, and a magical layout of the magical traps and how they work.
If the rock sets off a bomb, it was a motion/noise sensor. If it doesn’t go off, we don’t know if it was tossed over a tripwire, on a delayed timer, or if it was waiting for a heat signature. And we may not know if the rock doesn’t give us the clearest view. Maybe send Maxima in first then; she has Speed and Endurance, as well as the ability to disarm and disassemble even huge missiles.
Harem can try teleporting there after Maxima secures the immediate area. Harem can then act as a scout; teleporting away as soon as she senses danger. Maxima can’t stay, she might be trapped if the portal closes.
They had no intent on ever sending a person through that portal, the tracker-rock was simply and only to give them a location, and then they would send a team (or three) to scout it out on-site, like they did with the other locations when looking for Sci-fright
The problem with that plan is the potential lack of surface recon satellites. If they can’t case the location before arriving, they’ll be going in just as blind as with that portal. But if they can do some location scouting via portal, then the more intel they can gather the better.
My plan was very theoretical and had 3 distinct phases; the success of each determines if they move to the next. Phase 1 would be rock scouting. If, and only if, the immediate location of the portal can be entered without magical traps, Maxima would enter and disable any mundane traps. Finally, should the portal start to close, Harem goes in as the teleporting recon. If Harem carries the rock, then Dabbler can see her surroundings, and could sense what magic barriers/wards are in place surrounding the location.
ARC gets intel via rock, Maxima, and Harem. Then they advance onto the site on foot, already having a (partial) layout of the interior and any exterior Harem glimpsed, AND with some foreknowledge of the magical defenses. Why NOT implement that plan?
The point is, they will at least know where the location is and can send in drones to investigate and map the area
Or are you going to claim that a US military force doesn’t have spy satelittes and helicopters and other covert items every where? o_O
One problem is: what if one of the traps prevents Daphne from *VORP*ing out? Why know she can’t get through Mr Bubble and when she is inside, she is ‘cut off’ from her other selves (may not be completely cut off, butt it’s at least dampened, like when one of your limbs goes to sleep)
And another simpler advantage of sending the tracker-rock through rather than place a tracker on Coot: relying on Coot heading back to the starting point in a timely fashion
Remember, Sci-fright had just tricked Coot into being one of them ‘Ackbar-types’ and blowing himself up, if he is stupid enough to head right back and confront her, he is not dumb enough to do so without re-arming himself
If careful, Harem can be, while not immortal, extremely long lived. No guarantees on this – an inherited genetic disease might affect all 5 bodies, but environmental causes (including mammary traps) will only affect those bodies she chooses to expose. She could untelemake 2 or 3 bodies for decades, until her extant selves get old and feeble. Then remake a duplicate, re-untelemake another duplicate from the young just-remade body, and her extant selves then live 60-70 more years, as each body wears out, unteleport and partially teleport a younger self. This could go on indefinitely, as far as we know now of her
superpower.
Actually I should give credit to your “… figure out how to disable any traps …”. It is just the follow on “… then send through one of Harem’s duplicates. If it’s uninjured …” which I think she would, justifiably, baulk at. There are far better protected team members who could walk through (including the utterly invulnerable Achilles, as Xp points out in a thread above).
Let’s assume there are magical traps, and regular traps. If Dabbler can find a way to disable all magical traps, and they can see the normal traps via scry rock that they somehow can’t remotely disable, then Harem can at least see the obstacle course before she passes through. That’s why uninjured; all the deadly traps are already taken care of, and if she’s injured more than a scratch she can pop out and not feel it until she can get that body to a doctor.
My Master’s Degree is in Operations Research, so watching Numb3rs for me is more of a “Oh, I know how to do that, wait, you don’t get that kind of precision…(yell at TV screen)” situation.
I will say though, that every “math*” trick they used was done correctly.
*All of the Math in Numb3rs was actually Operations Research formulas…ALL OF IT.
You should check the credits and see if your professor was one of the consultants. ;-)
I just sighed at numb3rs…standard hollywood portrayal of software development … cutting edge ideas, developed into working applications while you wait, complete with graphics.
But it works fine if you realise that it is actually a super hero story. With the protagonist having a stupidity aura, that makes those around him not realise that he has to be doing that with a super power / super enhanced intelligence (or skill).
A bit like the one Superman radiates, to make nobody recognise him, once he puts a pair of glasses on.
I was just going to say that too – Dabbler must not have heard about MMO players and their shenanigans yet. Or tabletop RPG players. They break everything. EVERYTHING.
Gamer version of maxim #? “if it ain’t broke, it hasn’t been issued to the infantry.”
Also, I just realized. Sydney’s plan was so profound, it knocked the belly button jewelry off Dabbler’s waist.
Well spotted.
*looks around for bunnies*
Easter already?
The old Eureka (as in the TV Show) moment
Perhaps Sydney will feel the urge to recite “Eureka, Eureka, the world’s first streaker!” and get caught up in the moment?
Boogity Boogity
“Boogity”…?
…not “Giggity”…?
Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, Shoo
It may also be a reference to Ray Stevens’ “The Streak” which appeared on his album called, funnily enough, “Boogity Boogity” (probably this, butt the other song is still catchy and deserves to be listened to)
this scene kind of reminds me of the TV show Eureka where all of the super smart people were overthinking things and it was the ‘ordinary’ sheriff that came along and thought up a simple solution to the complex problem…i miss that show…but it got weird after the first couple of seasons =/
I did feel it was rather overplayed mind. Missing the odd thing, especially practical matters that are out of their field of expertise is one thing. But every episode having the smartest minds on the planet unable to put two and two together, without the sheriff’s ‘average person’ analysis, did get a tad bit tiresome.
Still entertaining mind, and they did show that most of the things he needed the input from the specialists, so keeping a realistic feel. Plus they were sensible in having other characters in key roles, at various times. But, more often than not, he was central to saving the day. The lot of the protagonist, I suppose.
At least Sydney has the advantage, in having a bunch of other useful powers, in addition to her tactical analysis. Thus justifying the amount of solutions which are down to her. But I approve that a lot of the time she is required to take a back seat, whilst the pros do their jobs.
Even if they sometimes drop the ball.
Most of the time, it was the sheriff’s awareness of what the propeller beanies were doing in different places that allowed him to put 2 + 2 together. Not that the geniuses were dumb, but just over-focussed on their own projects.
Or so I recall.
Good points. Still having the entire community sharing that trait is just a writing ploy to ensure the common man’s role remains plausible. But a fair one as it is believable in any given episode. It just stretches thin when all the assembled great minds fail to have curiosity about the phenomenon that is endangering their whole community.
Especially, as always, the one hyper-focused on the project which is actually causing the destruction!
I’m going to throw out there that it might occur to Sydney that their group of experts needs gamers. Just as the military uses war-gamers to strategize and try to break strategies, pre-op, these folks need to enlist a group of RPG nerds… the unsung, and hereto-now unappreciated experts in their fields.
I believe that Dave even alluded to the fact that Sydney was one in the early panels, and may have brought teammates along with her. Also, a nice cheaty way to get her friends on the gravy train and access to super-babes/dudes.
I’ll second that motion.
I always contend that, unless we are lucky enough to have aliens land next to a first contact team, our best hope is if there is a RPG gamer in the area. Or better still a games master.
Whilst there are others who could substitute, such as science-fiction writers, gamers/ games masters are more practiced at thinking on the fly, adapting to unexpected changes, projecting themselves into other (often very different) mindsets and having to solve problems in a short space of time. Not to mention being open-minded about unusual things. Thereby being less likely to be incapacitated, by cultural shock, than your average bloke in the street.
Plus they will, hopefully, be wary that the aliens may not be altruistic and seeking to become friends. So should do a better job of balancing friendly overtures with keeping a wary eye out for duplicity or any hints of danger. Not to mention those wonderful ‘adventure breaking skills’, which could, if they turn nasty, be adapted to ‘space ship breaking skills’!
Bear in mind that current military thinking is that aliens are likely to be too advanced for our military to defeat. But weight of numbers would be on our side. So every human who can find a way of killing even one alien, or disabling one of their devices/ vehicles, would be bringing humanity one step closer to avoiding extinction.
And gamers are more likely to be able to spot such an opportunity and seize the moment. Sure others can do so too and, once the word gets out about how to do that, others can replicate the process. But a gamer will hopefully do so of their own recognizance, once they have assessed the situation. Especially important in a post apocalypse survival situation, where ‘spreading the word’ is a darned sight harder than we are used to.
Ive always been of the opinion that any race capable of interstellar travel that wanted rid of us would start by hitting us with an extinction event from orbit but I wont begrudge xcom and idependance day fans their dreams=).
Very likely. But we have absolutely no idea what their motives might be. If they are purely aiming to remove a competitor, but have no interest in the planet, or any other resources, then you are right. They could use whatever technique was expedient, and could opt for severe overkill to do the job.
Let us assume that is what they did with the dinosaurs. Either the aliens decided they were getting too close to an intelligent species developing or one actually did evolve. With the thoroughness of the alien extermination being the explanation for why we have not found remains of them or their artefacts.
Yet even using the most devastating interstellar impact we know to have hit the Earth (since the Moon was formed anyhow), and having aimed it at a spot where the local geology would magnify the effect, that still did not wipe out all the dinosaurs. Given that intelligent ones would be even more likely to survive, than the big herds and predators, this would have then required a mop-up period.
Which, going by the mortality rates amongst the non-intelligent species, could have been an extremely protracted affair. Hampered by working in an extremely hostile environment.
However, even with their species teetering on the brink of extinction, the intelligent dinosaurs may well have still outnumbered the invading aliens.
Which could explain why they have not been able to exterminate us yet. Even though their own numbers dropped below the level at which they could survive, the dinosaur freedom fighters also killed enough of the aliens to stop them from being a viable force either!
I get what youre trying to say but a civilisation thats literally thousands of years ahead of us technologically is not going to worry about numbers.Look at america,The tech level difference during colonisation compared to what were discussing is near non existant but it played a huge hand in wiping out a majority of native americans dispite them having by far the advantage in sheer numbers.
In all honesty with the bigger tech and science difference theoratically a handful of aliens could engineer complete human extinction with a handful of attempts and an invasion fleet would spend most of its time discussing the most productive way of exterminating us vs the easiest-aka “Should we slag the planet or just infest the place with spores that will alter the planets biosphere enough that everything down there dies out within a year?”
Probably.
But even last week we had a thread discussing the massacre of a firearm equipped army by spear wielding natives. Humanity has been armed with spears for hundreds of thousands of years. So the technology gap is the same as you stipulated. Yet the natives won, through use of superior tactics, diversions, the complacency of the ‘superior’ enemy (such as you are expressing on the alien’s behalf) and weight of numbers.
But, even putting that aside, and speaking in broad terms, there are two possible scenarios in a hostile alien invasion. One where they are as you say so advanced that there is nothing that could be done. The other, superficially similar, but where there is a chance to avoid extinction. Provided every human knows that if they are the one in a position to harm the enemy they must do so.
So supporting the former possibility to the extent of discounting the latter, means you are removing the chance of survival from the latter. Should you find yourself in the key situation you will choose to run and thereby loose the opportunity to take one of the aliens with you. If that is the prevailing attitude humanity would still die, despite having had a mathematically and tactically viable chance to prevail.
Incidentally you focus only on the technology. Whereas what prevailed for the conquistadors was actually their tactics and playing on the natives feelings of inferiority compared to these white gods.
They had the same weakness that you are portraying. Which allowed the invaders to play one faction against another, as the weak felt that they wanted to be on the stronger side. Only to end up subjected and enslaved by them.
Whereas if they had put aside their local differences, and allied against the invaders, they would have crushed them in minutes. Even having been depleted by disease they still vastly outnumbered the conquistadors. The firearms of the era were far too slow to withstand a massed assault. Without a bunch of native allies to use as cannon fodder.
If I find you sucking up to the alien invaders, I will bite your ankles!
Also, worth noting that an alien invasion force would have to contend with an environment that they’re not adapted for. The world itself would literally be on our side and we’d have an advantage (key point would be finding the weakness in their life support) assuming prolonged ground combat.
Also, planning an orbital bombardment is much harder than people think. Sure, the general idea of “point at earth, fire” seems legit on the surface, but if you’ve ever played around with an orbital simulator program (say, Kerbal Space Program or Universe Sandbox), most will readily realize you’re much more likely to just launch whatever you fire into some random orbit that’s barely related to what you want at all or launch it into its own solar orbit or out of the solar system. And that’s before there’s someone trying to intercept.
And don’t forget, their weaponry isn’t local, ours is, which is another disadvantage on their part. Further on that point, an invading military force from another solar system is at a HUGE disadvantage if the defending planet has any space-faring capabilities at all, because interstellar travel is so resource intensive that it’s neigh impossible for an invading space military force to have a resource advantage. Also, remember that we had a World War and a Cold war push us from “Rockets are kinda cool little gizmos to set off fireworks and we have this neat radio thing” to “Omagerd, we’re on the moon! We have nukes! We have an interplanetary communication network capable of machine learning!” because humanity kind of went OCD on space, which is REALLY weird (especially if you look at history before that) for governments to double-down on science so hard.
In short, any alien warning system that goes, “Hey, a civilization is rising up!” (and is still limited by light speed) Will show up and prepare for facing off against something like WWI military tech with biplanes and machine guns, not prepared for ICBMs, Nukes, and decentralized global intel.
Seems to me that any space invader with two connected braincells would make sure to provide his invasion force with some ressources-harvesting (asteroid-mining, for example) and manufacturing capabilities to ensure that destroyed equipment can be replaced without having to rely on an interstellar supply-chain. Of course, that still leaves the problem of troops losses, but there are a few ways around the problem, provided they have the required technology: cloning (if they can grow and train the new troops quickly enough), brainwashing captured humans for use as slave-troops (see the Anime Kuromukuro for an example of aliens doing just that), or simply using drones or AI-controlled fighting machines. Of course, there is always the potential problem of such a technology being suborned and turned against them (or in the case of AIs going rogue), but….
This entire exchange is perfect, and I love it forever.
I fell compelled to give a quick crash course on Lina Inverse given some comments.
This is the super-powered, very intelligent, but also very short tempered, and greedy, somewhat sociopathic but good at heart master of sorcery Lina Inverse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDSWfGXFnCw
‘Somewhat’ sociopathic? o_O
To be fair, you get a little leeway on the term when you’ve saved the world a couple dozen times.
Looking at the number of comments, this one will go into the hall of fame. At least when DaveB finally builds it…
The juxtaposition between panel 3 and 5 makes me giggle each time I see it.
(And having been in that same scenario a few times, I get her feels.)
Yea, I remember the feels well.
No idea if the author will see this. But lets face facts here Lina wouldnt cast flight to get to the top floor and then cast a fireball. she would stand on a hilltop 20 miles away and cast dragon slave. Or even better, find a naive white mage to teach and have them target the tower for her.
also for those that dont know/havent looked up the name Lina Inverse, its an OLD anime out of Japan based on D&D and too much alcohol. The animation isnt exactly top tier, but the dialog is glorious. Its Called Slayers. Do yourself a favor and check it out.
I intend to.
For info the author does read all the comments, when he has the time. Your opinion of Lina’s actions mirrors what a fair number of folks have likewise suggested.
“we are too intelligent to think in such simple terms” ~Thor … i think
Thor: “You have demonstrated their weakness may be found from a less sophisticated approach. We are no longer capable of such thinking.”
Jackson: “Wait a minute, you’re actually saying that you need someone dumber than you are?”
O’Neill: “You may have come to the right place.”
[later]
Maj. Carter: “We did it!”
Thor: “It was your stupid idea.”
Yeah, that’s pure Sydney right there. Thinking outside of the box. Outside of Pandora’s Box, that is…
“Maybe her mind is too highly trained, Majikthise.”
+1 Literary point to the first to get the reference.
:)
Oooops, I meant to make something specific in the quote: “Maybe Dabbler’s mind is too highly trained, Majickthise.”
At least it makes a bit more sense than if I leave the impression that it was referring to Sydney.
Or Kiritsugu Emiya explodes the hotel.
Lina Inverse wouldn’t necessarily bother with flying when she could just wipe out the tower, the mountain, and the nearby town. Generally she didn’t seem to think it was a bad idea to do anything so long as she was faster than the angry mob.
That reminds me of somebody else. Although to him the angry mob is as rewarding as whatever he may have done to provoke them.
A day without being chased makes him feel incomplete.
Panel 3. As read by Sheldon Cooper.
Panel 4, as read by Penny.
Yeah, that’s why feel those two make a more perfect couple then either of the ones they ended up with (the repressed nympho and the timid midget)
sydney, whether she knows it or not, seems like the kind of intuitive genius, compared to the super-logical genius type. she goes by the acronym of K.I.S.S. that most engineers and scientists say they follow but seldom do. it means KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.
instead of just looking out the window, some feel the need to do months of astonomy equations to figure out where they are.
in 50th anniversary episode of dr who, three versions of doctors are put in the tower of london cells, one tries to send message thru time on the wall another tries to get sonic screwdriver to do hundreds of years of calculations to disintegrate wooden door, but none tried the door to see if it was unlocked (which it was when clara arrived to get them)
when i was in college in 80’s studying computer programming, had mathematical genius friend, who always got mad when we had to debug a program, but he had to read whole thing from the beginning to figure it out. he could do a 6 page math equation in his head but needed a calculator to figure out 2 plus 3
I am not surprised, that is really hard.
It is more paws than exist!
Reminds me of the old quote “I now understand why D&D has two different stats for being smart, and knowing things…” XD
Sometimes the simple methods are better. This is the case, when someone’s intelligence level just TOO HIGH.
love the 5th panel. shocked dabbler and nonsense math is hilarious.